You know I've had my ruts and berms perfect but when I got onto a flat corner i would usually drop the bike or be really slow, and I've had friends telling me to always put my butt crack on the edge of my seat, but I've always tried that in the ruts and it didn't work and now I know where exactly to use these techniques because of this video, thanks whoever put this up!
Doug that was perfect. I've been around bikes most of my life but didn't enjoy pushing them until I learned competitive automotive driving skills in my 20's and 30's. Good lines, vision, momentum, fitness, smooth, smooth, smooth, wight transfer, etc. That honestly allows me to keep up pretty well the few times I've ridden in the last 10 years. Just bought a neglected TTR250 and told my wife I wanted to learn the physics of motorcycling to a higher level. I always positioned myself logically for tire bite fore and aft, but that's it. The example with the lines of force and getting the side bite in a flat corner was a home run for me. Can't wait to practice that some. See that another video or two exist and look forward to studying those as well. Thanks very much!
Then he tries to explain how it's important to keep looking ahead and they stop the video. As if 3:09 was already way over the time limit or something?
Okay I have a question, when riding around the corners, do you hold in the clutch while going around, or do I not? My goal is to race my first race in the spring, but I need help, my dad tried to explain to me how, but I was hoping youtube could help a bit more. Thanks!
You don't want to hold the clutch in to coast around the corner. When you let off, the bike will brake a little (engine braking) from the deceleration. You need that deceleration to help plant the front wheel in corners, then roll the throttle back on to exit. The only case where you would hold the clutch in throughout the corner would be an EXTREMELY tight corner where there's a risk of stalling if you don't. That would be something you would run into in woods racing but probably not ever in motocross. Charge the corner so you have to brake coming in, ease off the brakes with a nice controlled transition to the throttle. Try not to coast. Listen to DR.D (in the vid), he has a ton of experience. Hope that helped a little.
When I go into a corner, I don't downshift at all, I feather my clutch. Yes it does put some wear on the plates but that's what it's designed for. It saves that time for down shifting then having to upshift again. It's just pointless seconds wasted cuz when I first started racing I would downshift from 3rd to 2nd and then back to 3rd then to 4th. My uncle, come to find out raced for 23+ years, coached me to not down shift. I used my clutch and would feather if necissary, when I came out of that corner and I rolled on that gas I saved so much time and was able to get up and go a helluva lot quicker than having to fly through gears.
r1sabotage I think what you are seeing when people discuss clutch usage on a two stroke, they refer primarily to clutch fanning. Just in case you are not aware of the term, I will explain. Clutch fanning is an intentional slippage of the clutch while under power. Why would you do that? It reduces the load on the engine under acceleration and allows the engine to rev (largely without any load on it) much more quickly to get to the meat of the powerband where it is running most efficiently as quickly as possible. Once in the meat of the powerband, the clutch is smoothly released, delivering engine power back through the transmission. Once a rider learns how to skillfully manipulate the clutch in this way, it results in a much more explosive power delivery. It is used on starts, out of corners, on jump landings, and any time you need weight off the front wheel. If you watch any supercross/motocross rounds this year, keep your eye on the clutch fingers of the riders, you will notice many don't grip the bars with all their fingers on that hand. Many keep one to two fingers on the clutch lever almost all the time. This allows quick access to the clutch to abuse it at will. Now this is less prevelent in the four stroke era, but it has not disappeared completely by any means. I don't know who told you engine braking is harmful to a two stroke but they don't know what they are talking about. There is nothing wrong with backing off on the throttle while in gear and leaving the clutch engaged. That is in no way harmful to a two stroke or a four stroke, it is simply a consequence of the cylinder compression under deceleration. The only exception here is an overrev condition. If you downshift too many gears while traveling too fast and let the clutch out, the engine will overrev and can blow up unless you are quick to snag the clutch to save it. Krista's original question was about holding the clutch in while you go through a corner. This is totally different from clutch fanning and is really not advised. Normally a lot of mid corner chop is averaged out really well with the aid of engine braking that loads the front wheel and allows the forks to do their job. This would be downright treacherous with the clutch in and nothing to plant the front wheel. Without that engine load on the chassis to help stabilize the bike, it allows the forks to ride higher up in their stroke and operate with fork valving that is too compliant for good stability at higher speeds. Holding the clutch in would not only severely affect the stability of the bike mid corner, it would be rather slow and is totally unnecessary.
Jason M thanks for taking the time to write that winded explanation. I just bought a dirt bike and plan to begin riding this coming spring. I'm seeing a lot of different riding tips and one was with a two stroke it's either you're on the gas or on the clutch. I do sportbike track days and I use a lot of engine braking going into corners, so your explanation mirror my riding knowledge a bit more then just coasting through turns. A sport bike is high revving, does a Yz250 share the same high revving characteristics, or is it more like riding a cruiser where your optional usable power is at the middle of the rpm range? And I blip the throttle for everything I ride (cruiser and sportbike) is it the same principle with my two stroke? I had a klr650 and i kind of rode it like my sport bikes (not to red line though), will I be fine riding the two stroke in the same manner?
It's not soo much the turn and how to do it, it's how to react when things go wrong. It seems like a lot of the videos I watch focus on the perfect conditions. Coaches should include tracks that's are rough, off camber flat turns, pitted hard and dry slippery flat turns, and how to make the best of bad tracks or bad corners ...
You know I've had my ruts and berms perfect but when I got onto a flat corner i would usually drop the bike or be really slow, and I've had friends telling me to always put my butt crack on the edge of my seat, but I've always tried that in the ruts and it didn't work and now I know where exactly to use these techniques because of this video, thanks whoever put this up!
Doug that was perfect. I've been around bikes most of my life but didn't enjoy pushing them until I learned competitive automotive driving skills in my 20's and 30's. Good lines, vision, momentum, fitness, smooth, smooth, smooth, wight transfer, etc. That honestly allows me to keep up pretty well the few times I've ridden in the last 10 years. Just bought a neglected TTR250 and told my wife I wanted to learn the physics of motorcycling to a higher level. I always positioned myself logically for tire bite fore and aft, but that's it. The example with the lines of force and getting the side bite in a flat corner was a home run for me. Can't wait to practice that some. See that another video or two exist and look forward to studying those as well. Thanks very much!
Great coaching and thanks for the great explanation of technique for cornering flat turns.
That's a beautifully manicured track!! Thanks for the tips Doug
this made so much sense, thank you
Then he tries to explain how it's important to keep looking ahead and they stop the video. As if 3:09 was already way over the time limit or something?
Great video.
Great advice from the master
Awesome voice
What if the corner is really sharp?
Clutch in and brake before the corner then use your inside foot off the peg to stabilize the lean while you smoothly motor through the turn
his voice makes me want to cough
thanks, is it back if i dont down shift, just pull in the clutch and keep it high reving and dump the clutch, around corners?
I do that did you find out if it's bad?
its fine. i do that all the time
+Denver Estabrooks ok cool thx
I want to ride that track !
Awesome basic
Okay I have a question, when riding around the corners, do you hold in the clutch while going around, or do I not? My goal is to race my first race in the spring, but I need help, my dad tried to explain to me how, but I was hoping youtube could help a bit more. Thanks!
You don't want to hold the clutch in to coast around the corner. When you let off, the bike will brake a little (engine braking) from the deceleration. You need that deceleration to help plant the front wheel in corners, then roll the throttle back on to exit. The only case where you would hold the clutch in throughout the corner would be an EXTREMELY tight corner where there's a risk of stalling if you don't. That would be something you would run into in woods racing but probably not ever in motocross. Charge the corner so you have to brake coming in, ease off the brakes with a nice controlled transition to the throttle. Try not to coast. Listen to DR.D (in the vid), he has a ton of experience. Hope that helped a little.
When I go into a corner, I don't downshift at all, I feather my clutch. Yes it does put some wear on the plates but that's what it's designed for. It saves that time for down shifting then having to upshift again. It's just pointless seconds wasted cuz when I first started racing I would downshift from 3rd to 2nd and then back to 3rd then to 4th. My uncle, come to find out raced for 23+ years, coached me to not down shift. I used my clutch and would feather if necissary, when I came out of that corner and I rolled on that gas I saved so much time and was able to get up and go a helluva lot quicker than having to fly through gears.
+Jason M people stated that with two stroke you should pull the clutch since engine braking is not good for two strokes, so which is it
r1sabotage I think what you are seeing when people discuss clutch usage on a two stroke, they refer primarily to clutch fanning. Just in case you are not aware of the term, I will explain.
Clutch fanning is an intentional slippage of the clutch while under power. Why would you do that? It reduces the load on the engine under acceleration and allows the engine to rev (largely without any load on it) much more quickly to get to the meat of the powerband where it is running most efficiently as quickly as possible. Once in the meat of the powerband, the clutch is smoothly released, delivering engine power back through the transmission. Once a rider learns how to skillfully manipulate the clutch in this way, it results in a much more explosive power delivery. It is used on starts, out of corners, on jump landings, and any time you need weight off the front wheel. If you watch any supercross/motocross rounds this year, keep your eye on the clutch fingers of the riders, you will notice many don't grip the bars with all their fingers on that hand. Many keep one to two fingers on the clutch lever almost all the time. This allows quick access to the clutch to abuse it at will. Now this is less prevelent in the four stroke era, but it has not disappeared completely by any means.
I don't know who told you engine braking is harmful to a two stroke but they don't know what they are talking about. There is nothing wrong with backing off on the throttle while in gear and leaving the clutch engaged. That is in no way harmful to a two stroke or a four stroke, it is simply a consequence of the cylinder compression under deceleration.
The only exception here is an overrev condition. If you downshift too many gears while traveling too fast and let the clutch out, the engine will overrev and can blow up unless you are quick to snag the clutch to save it.
Krista's original question was about holding the clutch in while you go through a corner. This is totally different from clutch fanning and is really not advised. Normally a lot of mid corner chop is averaged out really well with the aid of engine braking that loads the front wheel and allows the forks to do their job. This would be downright treacherous with the clutch in and nothing to plant the front wheel. Without that engine load on the chassis to help stabilize the bike, it allows the forks to ride higher up in their stroke and operate with fork valving that is too compliant for good stability at higher speeds. Holding the clutch in would not only severely affect the stability of the bike mid corner, it would be rather slow and is totally unnecessary.
Jason M thanks for taking the time to write that winded explanation. I just bought a dirt bike and plan to begin riding this coming spring. I'm seeing a lot of different riding tips and one was with a two stroke it's either you're on the gas or on the clutch. I do sportbike track days and I use a lot of engine braking going into corners, so your explanation mirror my riding knowledge a bit more then just coasting through turns. A sport bike is high revving, does a Yz250 share the same high revving characteristics, or is it more like riding a cruiser where your optional usable power is at the middle of the rpm range? And I blip the throttle for everything I ride (cruiser and sportbike) is it the same principle with my two stroke? I had a klr650 and i kind of rode it like my sport bikes (not to red line though), will I be fine riding the two stroke in the same manner?
Doug needs his own channel on mx training
really helpful, makes sense I guess. Thanks.
It's not soo much the turn and how to do it, it's how to react when things go wrong. It seems like a lot of the videos I watch focus on the perfect conditions. Coaches should include tracks that's are rough, off camber flat turns, pitted hard and dry slippery flat turns, and how to make the best of bad tracks or bad corners ...
Good video abrupt ending cut him off in the middle of what he was saying.
No offence but he looks like a 8 yr old riding that bike