Madsen LAR: An AK for NATO!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 сер 2024
- The Madsen LAR (light automatic rifle) was an attempt by the main Danish arms manufacturer to get into the military rifle market after World War Two (they also released a bolt action rifle around the same time, the Model 47). The first version of the LAR was chambered for 7.62x39mm and submitted to Finnish testing, where it lost out to the Valmet-made Rk-62. Madsen then scaled up the working parts of the rifle and offered it in 7.62mm NATO for testing by the rest of the international military community. Unfortunately for the company, there were no takers, and the rifle was never put into serial production.
At its mechanical heart, the Madsen LAR is a Kalashnikov system, sharing the long stroke gas piston and the exact same style of rotating bolt and bolt carrier as the AK. It uses an aluminum alloy lower receiver with steel front trunnion, and a more complex (and much more closely fitted) receiver cover. It probably would have been a quite serviceable rifle in the field, but it was both a bit too late to market and failed to offer any substantial advantage over rifles like the G3 and FAL.
Many thanks to the Tøjhusmuseet (Royal Danish Armory Museum) for letting me have access to these very rare rifles! Check them out at: en.natmus.dk/museums/the-royal...
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Madsen gun designer says to assistant -"go find me a handle for the charging lever". Assistant can't find one so he brings back the knob off of the drawer instead. Designer says -"that will work".
HA! IKR. I was thinking the same.
But actually... as a submission to Finland, operability while wearing heavy gloves would be desirable for as many functions as possible.
Yeah, try charging an AK with gloves. Same reason the swedish and finnish rifles tend to have big trigger guards.
"This will work superbly"
@@donjones4719 thats actually a rlly big brain idea on the designers part
These LEGO sets are getting more accurate each year
I think you didn’t get the likes you deserve for your comment because people don’t realize LEGO is from Denmark.
@@conradsz yup, I told my dad I was getting my kids Lego for Christmas and he said "aw an American classic"
Except Lego is so weird and lefty that they refuse to produce even military vehicles
@@shinobi-no-bueno it's cuz they did a firehelicopter to extinguish fires
The britisk army stopped using them or sued lego idk
But lego wouls be richer if they made war sets
@@shinobi-no-bueno 'Lefty' No, pls, don't bring politics into Lego-
They don't make military stuff, cuz they will never produce something that causes harm. I mean, weird rule but oke, but still, lets not bring politics into lego-
Thank you Ian for protecting us from popular firearms
It is, after all, called "forgotten weapons" channel ;)
Antonio Tyler totally, me too. But now I can't draw (with a pencil, not from a holster) a gun without designing it internally
Well he still is the gun jesus
He made a vid about the Intervention though 🤷♂️
@BOB+RAYGUN+PIPE=X-DAY(1995) "It is an AK on the inside", throughout the video this is mentioned repeatedly.
And yet, I CAN'T take an AK and try to build it, to LOOK like this rifle. And I can't go to an AK manufacturer and ask them to make a replica.
When he says "I think this would do pretty well in mud" i could feel him fighting the urge to drop it into the wheelbarrow of mud.
Try burying it in sand with the bolt open for a month.
There's a somewhat muddy cavalry parade ground outside the museum. Named simply Christiansborg Riding Track (Ridebane).
Does anyone else think this would fit right into the Fallout universe as a "European Assault Rifle"?
I would have prefered that over the FO4 AR
😡
Yep. Totally.
Fo4 ar was ugly and looked more like a ww1 type gun. The fo3 ar is good, reminds me of a g3
@@nickysimi9866 thats because the fallout3 ar is an HK33 with wooden furniture
Its like a g3, an ak, an M1 and a galil had a love child and this was the result
pretty cool
Salokin That must have been a heck of a party but only 2 can tango to make “child”.
It was a eldar child.
Damian Grouse this is second gen resulting from that party
galil is based on ak
Zeekat Ak-->Rk-->Galil
I remember getting lost in that museum as a kid. Boy was I terrified. But man I did dig wandering the halls of awesome arms. I can highly recommend visiting if you ever find yourself in Copenhagen.
Big issue is the massive weapon collection is gone to make room for the naval museum (orlogsmuseet) on that floor, the HAWK missile is even gone from the ground floor. i took my then 7 year old kid there in the summer hollidays, and he loved it.
@@rhodesianwojak2095 The museum has changed so that what is there is 90% only applicable to danish armed forces. The ground level gun hall has even gotten a very big souvenir store now, 2nd floor is a timeline exhibit, with very period and branch focused exhibits. the main weapons collection is all gone. There is exhibits on period focused assets like german weapons used during the WW 2 occupation of Denmark.. Fun fact I will be visiting the museum a few times over the next 4-5 weeks, a tradition with my kids.
@@Squid2650 Why did they remove the weapons collection??
@@Helmutlozzi I talked to the one of the senior curators about that. He told me that the fear of break ins was the main reason for the removal. With so many weapons they had to seal them away in containers. Also (and this is might hurt some) they destroyed some thousands standard cutlass and sabres (i don't recall the exact number). They did not want to sell them fearing so many swords on the open market.
@@martinvagnerpind6302 So they just destroyed them? Sounds pretty European to me...
Fun fact, they recently changed the name of the museum to 'The War Museum' (Krigsmuseet), which should be easier to pronounce if you come to visit again!
They were worried that the old name (Tøjhus being an old-timey word for an arsenal) was confusing people as to what the museum actually contained - probably because 'tøj' and 'hus' by themselves mean 'clothing' and 'house'. :p
well, if they have uniforms, it's not _entirely_ inaccurate..
Didn't they just destroy thousands of weapons, when the mangement changed?
Its like someone described the Ak, and how it worked to a Dane and the Dane than went on to build one.
@@Vadim3814 Of course, they're Danes, it's an important detail.
@@zuser Its an implied detail.
Dang ..... Hope that you had a good time in our country
The only annoying thing is the euro/kronen conversion rate and the prices in some shops. Otherwise a beautiful country.
lostinspace013 and jerks like you! Skammer mig over din slags!
Kemas ingen grund til at blande politik ind
Du burde læse en fucking bog og lære hvad du snakker om før du spytter den slags mongolsk savl ud
Wow this side thread got out of hand fast :-/
Looks like a G3 and a SIG 550 had a fling, and LARry was the result. And somebody has been taking care of the furniture. Wood looks in _great_ shape. Kudos to the curator, and thanks to Ian for showing us another forgotten marvel of engineering. For it's not just a gun; it demonstrates _ingenuity_ to come up with something like that. Not many systems with the recoil spring _inside_ the gas tube.
That collapsing carry handle genius!
I did enjoy seeing it. Not like it's very different from the carry handle of a standard ammo can so it's common stuff.
Scott Watrous The reason I said that is because they added It to the rifle to carry it and collapsed down out of the way unlikesome of the others that's fixed!
Reckless Roges the same with the side folding ones like the m249saw,m60 etc
The Stoned Videogame Nerd oh and the sights on top of the carry handle
Drastically Changes were the bore of you're barrel is actual aimed and were you're line of sight is actual looking at, the butt stock has nothing to do with the carry handle or the iron sights
The Stoned Videogame Nerd that's true but this solution they had minimized that you can also smash your hand ask how i know" with a Ammo can we buy fat fifty cal and standard one's for tool boxs.
It is a good looking rifle acctualy
Looks very top heavy though,
Sir Suspicious We all have our opinions.
its like mosin assault rifle, disgusting ugliness. If u disagree compare it to sturmgewehr
Yeah, I agree, visualy it's very cool, a weird and somewhat elegant-despite-overdesigned look that mixes old-school wooden elements and parts that look like an oversized AK/M41A Pulse Rifle. I totaly dig it, looks kinda' retro-futuristic.
The NATO caliber one looks too large for my standards. But I would definitely use the Finn one if provided to me in combat.
Im Danish, and I'll freely admit. Before I started to watch your channel, I had no idea stuff like this was in our history.. Pretty cool, thank you!
Well, the only successful Madsen weapon was the LMG from the end of the 19th century. Pretty much all their own weapons after that was a failure
While some Design choices might be quistionable the manufacturing quality of the gun seems really high. Beautifully build gun
It's an original prototype, not a production unit.
Between the wafer thin sides of the stock and the mainspring being housed inside the gas system, I can see why no one adopted this rifle. That mainspring would be subject to so much heat, especially with automatic fire, that I couldn't imagine it holding any sort of temper.
Yall Take Care and be safe, John
Those are both gorgeous rifles
That is the sort of video i enjoy the most. A truly forgotten weapon. Love everything else aswell though.
Greetings from Germany
I love rifles which have the look of the modern(ish) rifle and still use wood in furniture. They look so nice
That's beautiful, I would LOVE to have one, even in semi auto. Such a shame they are so rare
You make such great and informative videos, you definitely deserve a spot on UA-cam rewind 2018.
I lolled
Mr.Dr.Professor Toaster no. This is actualy good. For being on the rewind you must reache a minimal lvl of dull and awefull.
UA-cam hates guns
And be a SJW. I'm sure Ian like most of us don't even want to be a mile close to the people that get picked for UA-cam rewind.
That's an extremely cool looking museum.
It is extremely awesome, going from medieval to modern times. Loads of stuff to see.
do the still have that WWII german 357mm piece from Hansted displayed in the court yard?
did the germans use cheat codes. perhaps
Tak. You'll be wellcome here/there.
Great for gun nuts, sword nuts, history nuts and nuts in general. I will also recommend it for kids. Usually alot of interactivity and nice staff.
Thanks for the video! You never fail to find increasingly obscure rifles that I never knew I needed...
Glad you did this review. I have always admired the LAR, mostly for it's looks, (kinda like my admiration of the AR-16) but it appears to be a very well machined product. Glad the museum gave you access to their artifacts.
Its so nice to see you have come to Denmark! I hope you enjoyed your stay!!
Those things are gorgeous. Wonderful woods... nice ak variants.
Thanks for all the work you do to bring us such amazing content.
Wauw!!! you actually got a hold of one. much envy. and so happy that we finally get a video on this gun. having been the guy who have requested and hoped for it, for years. its nice so nice that others now are made aware of, what to me at-least, is one of the prettiest military styled battle rifles ever made.
That is a great Museum; one of the best parts of my trip to Copenhagen. The Naval collection upstairs and military hat collection is really great.
Seeing the wood on an otherwise modern looking rifle feels weird.
❤️
Wood is a surprisingly great material for use in the arctic. My source a drunk guy that studied arctic technology.
i want more wood on modern rifles, it looks smexy.
I’ve been waiting for you to make a video on these rifles since I found your channel. Glad it finally happened!
YES! I've been waiting for this gun for a loooong time! Hope you enjoyed our country!
what an intriguing design. first thing comes to mind seeing this is a Galil
Stephen Stine
So an AK? You know, the first generation of Galil rifles were AK copies in 5.56mm.
I thought it looked like an M1 carbibe had a child with an AK
A young Madsen designer: "Sir, here we have the new black rifle!" - An elderly Danish general: "Where is the beech stock? A rifle has to have a wooden stock" .... I'm sure the Finns never required a wooden stock, because the Valmet managed to get adopted without one. Great video, Ian! Those trial rifles must have been somewhere in storage, I've seen the normal display items several times!
This is the best background you have in any of your videos, they’re usually pretty simple but well done but this one is very nice with the museum in the background... very cool... great video
The field stripping process is really elegantly done. Looks like a really well made rifle too.
That's a beautiful rifle!
This is so great! I feel most Danish firearms are forgotten by Danes themselves.
Was it hard getting to take a look at this one? I've always had a feeling that stuff like this is hard getting permission to do from them.
As a dane i didnt know this rifle existed and you are right, its a damn shame.
(also, the hell Ian??? You ought to notify us when you come to denmark :///)
As a dane, i can confirm.
Ajesbayes He did warn us and there was even a meet up... Well for us patreon supporters.
I must say I find danish military firearm designing sort of amusing. Except for the 1902 LMG (which you may argue they were a little too early to the party) they seem to be experts at being late to the party.
1946: Denmark be like: LOOK GUYS! I've made this cheapo Submachine gun!
Everyone else: Yeah, we've had them for like 10 years now.
1947, Denmark be like: LOOK GUYS! I've made arguably the best military bolt action rifle in the world!
Everyone else: Aww that's good Denmark, but.. We all switched to semi auto rifles.
Late 50s: Denmark be like: LOOK GUYS! I've finally came around to make a decent Battle/Assault rifle!
Everyone else: Should I choose G3, FAL or M14, and what's this CETME, have you seen those Soviet shootas? Um? What you say Denmark?
I feel we've been incredibly conservative when it comes to joining new development trends. The few times we've tried to be on the cutting edge of things, it rarely went that well. Either because it wasn't received as well as it "should have", like the Madsen LMG.. Or it just sucked, like our fancy electric cars of the 80's.
I guess we just ended up with a culture of trying to play it safe, and let others take the risks with the cutting edge stuff.
This channel is amazing love this guy his videos are on point very educational
These are beautiful. I love the position of the safety.
As a dane i've been waiting for this!
Me too! I was afraid Ian might never get a chance to look at these, as they are very rare guns indeed, so it was very cool to see this vid pop up in my notifications.
He will upload more from Tøjhusmuseet, and i can't wait to see what it is.
Do you own any guns?
BushmasterXM15E2S Not yet because Demark does not have a right to bear arms and i'm only 18
Emil Hajbert betyder ikke at du ikke kan eje skydevåben, du skal bare have jagt tegn eller skv
damn they are large, i thought it was just H3VR that had them oversized.
Same here, just got this gun in h3vr and I was like "bruh... WTF is this lego gun shit... Oh... It's finish... That explains it..."
Ian, I want to personally thank you for giving me the opportunity to learn about numerous guns, and operating systems :).
its cool to see you in denmark covering some of our more or less forgotten weapons, never knew we made these til i found this vid
I like how ian kept it cool when they just decided to film this in the museum front
Man, I wish I had known about this place when I was visiting Cobnhavn back in 2006, my aunt and I went to Tivoli Gardens instead. One thing I'll never forget is how strange the cartoons were on T.V..
i watch this every time i see it, i just soooo much love the aesthetics
Seriously, the design of this rifle looks absolutely beautiful!
That rifle is dope.
What a nice looking rifle Denmark, greetings from Sweden!
Absolutely gorgeous, especially with the wooden stock. I need one.
Uhh welcome to Denmark Ian !
Thanks for being here, you are awesome, and the Tøjhus museum is awesome.
Im danish, and i have been to the museum more than once. I understand why its hard to pronounce, its a tricky language.
Obama-san the museum has change its name from Tøjhusmuseet to Krigsmuseet (war museum) not even us danes understood the meaning of the old name
As much as I love our service rifles as a Finn, these have seemed extremely interesting to me for a while now
Thank you , Ian .
Ian, So glad you went to this museet. I visited there about 20 years ago and it was the highlight of my tour of Copehagen. I will never forget the ornately decorated wheel-locks which were gifts to the Danish Kings. I will definitely be funding you in 2018(100th anniversary of Armistice Day), so you can continue your much appreciated work. I am now going to watch your WW1 proposed archeology video. Keep up the good work !
This seems like a gun more "enthusiasts" should know about.
Well, according to the Internet Movie Firearms Database, it's featured in all of one videogame (a VR game to boot) and 0 movies, so it would be hard for them to know it even exists. I only found the video because I found the gun on wikipedia after looking though all the weapons Madsen A/S made
@@ethanor which game?
Gun Jesus is within 20 km of me?
same, I have been in danish national museum like 3 hours ago (Not the same that Ian is in, but 5 min walk from it)
If you were on patreon, you would have been invited to a meet-up in copenhagen.
He was
Fall on your knees and WORSHIP, gun peasant :D
Actually no, because he filmed this 2-3 months ago, sorry...
Good looking rifles. Thanks for sharing them with us :)
That's A Pretty Slick Rifle, Very Elegant Design. And Looks Very Smooth in Operation... I Would Enjoy Owning One.
I always love listening to Ian. He usually makes me laugh at least once during every review. This one contains the phrase "veritable smorgashbord"....which MUST be a Danish word. LOL
That would be Swedish.
The pistol grip looks so much like danish furniture design!
So cool to see this gun reviewed by you. Greetings from Denmark :)
Seeing you at Tøjhusmuseet is quite the experience!
I love the way those look.
Just adding another thanks from a Dane. Hope you had a good time in Denmark. Sorry about the sky-high prices. If you get a chance, visit the west coast. Beautiful sandy beaches with grassy dunes - and you get away from the city-slickers.
Hopes that there's more from Tøjhusmuseet!
Yes, a couple more that will post over the next few months.
All of those variants look awesome.
Nice, I was just there in October. Fantastic Museum.
I am quite curious as to how accurate the rifle is. It looks like it would be capable of decent accuracy.
Next you should check out the Armalite for USSR, the AR-10 in 7.62x39 that was trailed in Finland
Good Mr. TheGoldenCaulk, please be kind to the Finns and don't say that the AR10 in 7.62mm/39mm was the USSR's Armalite. The Finns trialed the gun you mention specifically to fight the USSR, and I think Finland earned the right in 1940 to not be considered a friend of the Russian Empire/USSR in any way. If not for me, do it for Varusteleka, who may send agents after you if they find out. :)
However, I agree, it would be very good of Ian if he could find one to show off such a genuinely forgotten weapon.
It was trailed in Finland? By who? Did they ever catch up to it?
Eustace Stritchers shut up
Eustace Stritchers That didn't stop Finland from having good relations with USSR and trading with them. Most of the cold war Finnish military vehicles were bought from USSR.
TheGoldenCaulk Finland wasn't ussr
Great episode.
I’ve totally been to this museum. Very cool Ian.
Velkommen til Danmark! :D
Ah Denmark my favourite holiday location. I wonder if Ian has ventured up north while he was there to look at the remnants of the Atlantik Wall. If I remember correctly there are nice examples up in Skagen or near Løkken. If not here's a nice idea for a future video
Hanstholm
Ian, I've been watching Forgotten Weapons for years. I think it's cool when you get ahold of the really rare stuff regardless of how famous said rare stuff might be. Great video, keep being civil & admirable & making me jealous of your success. My jealousy is famously non-existant but Forgotten Weapons & the entire book journey... well, I'm drowning in envy now.
Wow! That's pretty cool, thanks Ian
The thigh bone's connected to the bolt carrier...
Does anyone know how the dovetail mounts at 7:29 would work? Those seem spaced pretty far apart, so are they only intended for larger optics? What kind of sights could you mount on that model?
Large optics, predating piccatinny rails.
Great vid. Thank you Ian. I´m proud to be Danish on days like this. I hope you like Denmark
That's one hell of a good looking rifle. That's an incredibly aesthetic rifle.
Pikes! Real long arms!
I’d love to own one of these or any other ak but being in Canada and not listening to my best friends dad in the 90s I won’t be able to get one anymore. He bought a bunch of sks and aks rifles back then and wanted me to buy a few because he knew they would be getting banned soon and having ones that were imported before the ban would stay legal and he was right. The sks has to be turned in because it became fully automatic all on its own after about 50 rounds ir started giving 3 round bursts and after 150 it was just fully automatic and almost un controllable.
allan fulton Sounds like it's slamfiring. Make sure the bolt/carrier is clean and it should be fine
It's kinda strange how you can have ARs, but not AKs there.
About as strange as the import ban in the US, and maybe for the same reason. Protectionism disguised as gun control laws.
A lot of the laws specified specific firearms by name, not general configuration. You can totally have a SKS rifle in Canada though. My kid brother bought a surplus crate of the things (5 packed in grease paper) a couple of years ago, along with some surplus ammo; around 5000 rounds. There are all sorts of odd exceptions though. You can totally buy a XCR in semi in Canada with no problems. Same goes for the FN SCAR L and H. So long as they are semi, no problem. Further, you can get some AK pattern rifles in Canada, but they are super expensive. The Valmet Hunter M78, for example. Anything full auto is prohibited, and frankly I don't have an issue with that. It's fun, but a good semi is just as fun in my experience. Heck, my favourite rifle is a Ruger 10/22, because it's cheap to run, and fun to shoot. I can't afford to run my larger calibre stuff like I can a .22lr.
Ummmm that ban had been repealed, a while ago actually. People kicked up a pretty big fuss and the RCMP said it was a stupid law to put in place. So knock your socks off and buy one now if ya wants mate!
I love this rifle . great video
I love the looks of those! I really do!
never understood the concept of making the ak so much more complicated
Russkiman96 maybe better tolerance and more accurate. I'm not really sure myself.
An AK leaves the factory with a "I could of been a Madsen" bumper sticker
The Modern AK's are a little more complicated compared to the AKM, but this rifle seems to overdo it.
@@mpetersen6 The Navy SEALS liked to grab samples of various world ARs and BatRifles. In Vietnam, they tested early models of CETMEs & G3s. Im surprised they never grabbed any of these in 7.62x39 as a smooth-functioning AR that would run on enemy ammo.
Actually simplified in a compact way.
I wonder why nobody thought of the flexible spring loaded dust cover that allows the bolt to push it out of the way until the FN FNC.
SonsOfLorgar what army did you serve in? Belgium or Sweden? Your user name has me leaning towards Sweden. Lol
SonsOfLorgar and yeah. Better the spring and the cover be full of crap than the fire control group.
Judging from the username, he served either in the Colchisian army or the XVII Legion ;)
I really wish more countries would use the FN-FNC, I love that rifle and wish I had one.
If I was going to use one, I'd spring for the Swedish Version, it's got a few improvements like having last round bolt hold open.
Your pronunciations are excellent for a first go at it. We just appreciate that you give it a try.
Nice of them to allow you the opportunity to inspect these!
It's like a surgical tool compared to an AK. Beautiful!
I direct you to the AN-94, which by these analogies is a rocket-powered chainsaw.
7.62 x39mm Only Kraut Space magic compares to that.
Don't tell Doomguy about that. He'll start ripping and tearing everything to find a rocket-powered chainsaw.
idk the an 94 is pretty badass but i think id almost rather go for an am 180 due to reliability. apparently the an 94 has jamming issues. also its rate of fire is only a little faster then the 180.
I see something danish, I press like
Xegt Cookies especially.
So you didn't like?
Edit: i'm a bloody ideot, i heard him saying finnish the whole time.
The second example looks like it would be quite comfortable to handle. They all look really solid builds.
Those are some beautiful rifles
Cool rifles, but way over engineered IMO. Probably why they were never adopted. The look really expensive.
The price really was what killed it from what i've read. There's not a lot of data out there on the military trials it was part of, but what there is seems to indicate that the LAR did very well in trials functionally, but it was noticably more expensive than the G3 and FAL (which were already proven designs and a safe bet at the time), and nobody felt it offered enough to justify the added cost.
Perhabs if they had given the LAR another R&D run, to trim the fat and simplify it as much as possible, it could have been a thing.
my thoughts too. like the ak itsself, it needed a "we dont have the money Ivan, make it cheeper!"-design round.
It was more an issue that the homemarked (Denmark) got Marshall arms. So no incentive to for Danish military to buy them. They had the M1 up to 1975 as the main rifle (and it stayed around untill late nineties, start twothousand) when the army adopted the G3 (M/75) by then Madsen was out of business. A shame really...
@@martinjuulandersen9694 that is terribly sad.
Just waiting for someone to exclaim that the Finns should have adopted this reject instead of the AK.
Didn't the Finns adopt the RK 62 though
@@quakethedoombringer Yes. The RK 62 is an AK.
Another very interesting topic in this video.
Damn, that looks like such a cool rifle! Nice find Gun Jesus, never seen this before
I don't know. Michael Madsen sounds a lot more badass than Michael "Massen".
Sounds like Dutch as Maasen is fairly common name in Klommpen Land. LOL
That was just a way to try and spell how the Danish pronounce Madsen. Michael Madsen is Danish and Irish.
Michael "Mad Son" Madsen.
*likes before watching*
This seems like it would - after a few simplifications - be a very solid service rifle. It's rather 'different', but not in a "let's try something new and see what happens" sort of way. The way the guide rod attaches/detaches is genius.
Nice, Ive been waiting for this review