Madsen M1888 Forsøgsrekylgevær: The Strangest Semiauto
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- Опубліковано 10 тра 2018
- Development of the weapon that would eventually become the very successful 1902 Madsen light machine gun began many years earlier, in 1883. Two Danes, Madsen and Rasmussen, began working on a recoil-operated self loading rifle design that year, with Madsen developing the idea and Rasmussen fabricating the actual pieces. The project was made difficult by the black powder cartridges available at that time (black powder fouled intricate mechanics quickly, and also created a relatively poor recoil impulse compared to later smokeless powders), but by 1887 they had a workable gun completed. This rifle, designated the M1888 Forsøgsrekylgevær, was entered into Danish military testing, and went so far as to have 50 rifles field-tested by a battalion of troops. The conclusion was that the design wasn’t good enough for infantry use (although it was considered for fortress use, which would presumably be a cleaner environment that being in the hands of field infantry units), and the Krag-Jørgensen was selected instead for general issue.
Note the very small bayonet, typical of recoil-operated rifles in which too heavy a bayonet will cause the rifle to malfunction by increasing the weight of the reciprocating barrel assembly (the M1941 Johnson rifle was also recoil operated and used a similar style bayonet). As testing progressed, stacking swivels were added to the guns.
Many thanks to the Tøjhusmuseet (Royal Danish Armory Museum) for letting me have access to these very rare rifles! Check them out at: en.natmus.dk/museums/the-royal...
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Nothing says “Optimism” like 2300 meter iron sights.
these guns u will never find again
Atleast 2300m
Fucking hilarious, thank you for the comedy in 2021🍻
Those Guns k98 and danish 89. It was made in 1889 used same caliber as 1898. Its very Aline Guns and they were very big n heavy. Thanks 4 reply
Well you gotta figure your an entire army throwing lead at another entire army. So if you can at least get the bullet to fall at the correct range your volleys are bound to hit at least a few people.
Imagine it's 1880, you get fed and paid to hang out at a fort that never gets attacked, then you get issued the first ever semi auto rifle to play with. A few lucky dudes were living the dream.
It looks like a grandfather clock threw up in that thing. I want one.
If ever there was a piece that needs a C&Rsenal style 3D animation this is it.
Or a vbbsmyt animation
Problem is, that at the rate that Ian uploads the videos, having 3D animations for each is impossible, but I do agree that for some extremely complicated and unusual weapons, having a 3D animation would be just awesome.
Well the Madsen LMG saw service in WW1 so we should see a 3D animation of that at least..
See "Project Lightening"
Any chance the Danes were still using some of these in service during WWI? May get the CnRsenal video that way, since they started doing the neutrals now.
1886 France: We have the most advanced rifle in the world with our Lebel!
1888 Germany: No, we have a more advanced rifle with our 1888 Gewehr!
1888 Denmark: Hold my Carlsberg.
1891 Russia- The latest correspondence from the West has arrived, France has designed a rifle they call the Label using "smokeless powder", we must try to catch up with them
HecklerRommel Heineken is Dutch.
only among people that dont like beer
Should be “Hold my julebryg” or “Hold my Tuborg”
1898 Norway: hold my AASS
the people walking in the background around 10:30 ruined my theory. I thought Ian was freezing time to break into museums and auction houses to review their guns. A little disappointed 😅
Ha, idiot, he OBVIOUSLY placed them in the background after filming. Guess he fooled even you! His time freezing days shall continue on!
Hah I love this comment
Turns out Ian mastered the true power of The World
Over years all the users on this channels have accepted and got used to the Swiss and Germans building overcomplicated guns with lots of machining involved and suddenly - Gun Jesus pulls out a Danish contraption...
The conclusion is obviously the higher north you live the more complicated your guns are. We'll be looking forward to the first domestic gun from Greenland.
@@hedgehog3180 Greenland is Denmark
@@Andersdahl2211 Denmark is in the EU while Greenland is not. Denmark has also voted for Greenland having more independent control twice.
Its danish in name only, a remnant of a colonial past.
@@Tatwinus Great! Can we get back to the rifle now, please?
A self loading rifle, while all the other, much larger countries, were developing and introducing bolt action rifles! Innovative forward thinking.
Smart move at the time, of course, those bolt action rifles. Much cheaper, more reliable and easier to train conscripts to operate.
Still, a functional self loading rifle in the 1880's! Ikke dårligt!
What you also have to remember, is that Denmark suffered a humiliating defeat in the 1864 2nd Schlesvig-Holsten war at the hands of a Prussian - Austrian army, the Prussians toating the 1841 Dreyse "needle" gun. The numerical superiority of the Prussians coupled with their superior firepower served as a stark reminder to the Danes, that they needed to be able to defend themselves if they didn't want to lose even more territory to the Prussians (Germans).
Not gonna lie, 80% of the reason why I clicked on this video was to hear Ian say Forsøgsrekylgevær
"LET ME SHOW YOU ITS FEATURES"
Ah, a fan of the slingshot channel i see
4:10 Good lord look at all the machining time there!
KarlEller, its from the 1880. I dont think the parts have been machined
christian hetling They still had basic lathes, mills, and other machining tools in the late 1800s. Limited run and prototype guns would have a lot of hand made and hand finished parts in then, but they would be machined too.
+christian hetling
machining wasn't something unusual by 1880
oh, cool
The quality of the machine work done on firearms back then is just amazing.
The Danish government started a project to make a recoil operated rifle, right after the Danish Prussian war of 1864, because the Danish muskets were inferior to deal Prussian needle gun, which you have make a video of earlier. This was just the first functional weapon to come out of that project.
As someone with an interest in this topic do you know of any books that go into more detail?
does you or anyone else have more source material on the subject?
@iands1, I know I’m over a year late. BUT, if anyone is still interested there’s one book I know of about this conflict and it’s from the perspective of a British journalist who was there. It’s unimaginatively called - “the schleswig-Holstein war between Denmark and the German states.”.
Decent book although it’s a narrative book from the perspective of the journalist, rather than a third person overview of the events from a military or historical retrospective..
Also a youtuber did a small overview of it as part of their Austro-Prussian war series. Either epic history TV or historymarche. Can’t remember which one.
They should have made the stripper clip double as a volley sight. That would be funny.
Except you could not use that sight when there are rounds in it. Which if one thinks about it, is the only time one uses a rifle sight.
William Sager he said it would be funny, not that it would be practical.
William Sager or you could just use it like the british did in africa, and put 1 in at a time then put more in if the enemy charged. It was the same era anyways.
Stripper sight? US Marines approved.
William Sager Perhaps if you put it off to the side?
"It's unusual...actually It's really complicated." True of so many, many things.
Never expected the level of this complexity at 4:10. Damn. We must have done it good back in the 18’ hundreds
A semiautomatic rifle with a non-detachable magazine and made before 1898?
You know where I'm going with this!
Assault Relics and Curios?
Ian, I love the fact that you have visited Denmark. But I seriously think you should drop by "Østjysk Våbenhandel", it would propably shock you how "old timey" danish gun culture is. Well any gunstore really, the big one is just the biggest one in all of Europe.
Why am I not surprised that this store is in Østjylland ;D
@@Lighthammer18 It's kind of in the name 😆
I worked there for 2 years
I feel like I should have heard of this rifle before. Thanks for bringing it to us Ian
Dex Battlefield 1 needs it
Hawkeye 47 this was old by WW1 LOL
But more likely to be used than some of the guns there...
Dex so we're the Lebel and the Martini Henri
Why didn't they just attach a couple of robotic hands to a muzzle loader, and program them to perform the loading process? It would have been more simple than this.
Babbling Babblator because robotic hands require matrices to work. Also, this was created around the time of magazine fed bolt actions, so you would have been better off building something like the Howell automatic rifle instead of your suggested method of operation.
@@jackandersen1262 how high do you think the joke went over your head? I think it may have bounced off of mars before impacting the Indian ocean.
John Sanders pretty impressive if that did actually happen. still doesn’t mean that you have to get worked up enough to respond to a year old post.
@@jackandersen1262 hah, I just wanted to use that line and to seemed appropriate. Apologies for the necroposting, I dont pay attention to (or care) when a comment is made
@@PredatoryQQmber yeah, I'd think its dumb, but theres also the problem that people may disagree with things they said in the past. For example, four years ago I was swept up in the anti sjw crowd because all the atheist youtubers I watched (in my defense I was still in my edgy atheist phase and I was 15) started making that kind of content, and it got to the point where I was watching Sargon on occasion. Fast forward to modern days, if my old self read some of the things I said I'd probably try to start a flamewar with myself
I've been looking at that weapon several times, without knowing what I'm happy to say I know now.
The history of Madsen is sadly neglected and forgotten in Denmark.
Thank you for the video !
I would hate to clean that thing with modern powder. I could only imagine black powder. I’ve seen watches with less parts.
I love the weirdness of early semi autos, especially the recoil operated rifles.
Even the Madsen LMG has that same side-mounted feed. Fascinating
@Ian. As I can remember from my time in Denmarik, by law, they are not allowed to showcase a working weapon in small arms callibers, therefor some significant part of the system is taken off and stored under lock and key somewhere safe, thus the ´´non functionality´´ of that rifle!
I think this is one of the most interesting firearms youve brought to the table. As always, thanks for the content Ian!
This has to be one of my favorite videos so far.Such a beautiful piece of machinery great video.
“Forsøgsrekylgevær” translate to “Experimental Recoil Rifle”
Hvilket han også siger
@@The77Game danskjävel
There couldn't be a greater contrast between this beautifully machined weapon and the cheap clunky looking polymer ACR we saw a few days ago. Sure the ACR has every advantage in the book compared to this, but there is nothing like well-machined blued steel ...
Every time I think you can't show us any more early strange semi auto rifles you find another one. This channel is outstanding!
this gun sounds like the name of one of those skyrim dwemer ruins
I tried finding the source for this but I'm sure I read somewhere that the names are influenced by someone at Bethesda having family in Iceland and Denmark and finding the place names completely impossible to pronounce. Dwemers are also a bit like the dwarves of Scandinavian folklore so I guess it makes sense.
I love this i am danish and learning about danish guns on an American channel
Thanks you sir are a cool dude..
I do enjoy seeing these kinds of things on the internet ian! Thank you.
I did not know about this gun, so thank you very much for showing it!
Absoloutely love the mechanics of how things work and do you ever find some gems!
Being danish I love your videos about danish weapons, and weapons used in danish military
I love ingenuity of the designs and machining of these early auto and semi auto weapons when the designers were breaking new ground doing stuff that had never been done before. Thank you for another great and interesting video.
They are all in this , it is amazing , love it. Thx for this fine presentation .
Yay another video from your visit to Denmark in October last year.
I was there for the meet and greet at "Kompasset" I had such a good time...one of best days of 2017 for me
Cheers mate
Awesome - thanks for joining us there!
@Forgotten Weapons
It was a great evening. I was initially reluctant to go there (I am socially awkward and not good with crowds) .
I had a really good time tho. So nice to meet fellow "nerds" not just from Denmark, but from Sweden, Norway, Germany and from UK as well.
And a special thanks to you Ian. You were just like I hoped you would be. The what you see is what you get guy from Forgotten Weapons. Friendly, witty and a fountain of knowledge.
Cheers and please don't ever change
Crazy design- thanks for sharing!
Really cool. Thanks Ian.
This has to be the most complicated mechanics I’ve ever seen. Awesome
What strikes me the most about this is the integral bayonet. If the bayonet is always, always on the gun, then you can account for its weight when you're balancing the gun for recoil operation. On the other hand, you're turning your standard service rifle into a gigantic switchblade, so I can see why the idea wasn't used very often.
I do LOVE early semi-auto rifles.
Just realised I was trying to move my head to get a better view inside the gun........... Thanks for a great video Ian. :)
That Light machine gun was most likely the F117 Stealth Fighter of the 1880's That technology was way ahead of its time.
Thats a crazy action. I would love to see this thing run.
Me: wow Ian your danish is really good!
Ian: "I butchered that pronunciation"
You dont ALWAYS butcher it dude :)
i love the way you say danish gun names, youre doing great at it :)
The metric system was not introduced in Denmark until 1907. The distance scale is therefore either in Danish "fod" (feet) or "alen" (two feet).
The Danish "tomme" (inch) was 26.155 mm, slightly longer than the English, 25.4 mm, so a Danish fod was 31.385 cm (English 30.48 cm), and an alen was 62,77 cm.
So, it's not 2,300 metres, but most probably ~722 metres - alternatively 1,444 metres.
They had the coolest stuff in this time period. That machining is amazing. Madsen is an awesome design. Short reciever and no gas system, very cool.
very expensive tho
I have been waiting for this ...
Oh, I can see where this is going. Danes trying to out do Germans and Swiss at complexity. Close, but no cigar.
G11 trumps all
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) But the idea behind it is fucking awesome.
Except this is earlier dude, so listen to what GJ tells you. Might as well be the other way around.
@Suzukisan I am a Dane and shall justify why this is superior to anything else, even today;
The way you utilize this rifle is as follows; wait for the year to be, say, 1940, let the German Wehrmacht invade you.
Give them the Madsen M1888 Forsøgsrekylgevær and politely, in your best German, ask them; "if they could pretty please fix our shitty design."
This ties up the vast majority of German Engineers, to save face the allies propagated the lie that it was due to their superior production capacity, when in fact it was because majority of the Wehrmacht were mostly trying to fix this abomination.
Frankly I am disappoint that Gun Jesus did not mention that it also doubles as a telegraph and cash register!
@@JigJoss
*The AN94 has entered the chat*
every time I think: "I've seen all possible weapon designs"
Ian proves me wrong, which is pretty much every day.
it's like expecting techmoan to run out of audio formats
It would be really interesting to hear (either from you or in an interview format if you don't have expertise in that area) about the advances in chemistry/manufacturing/whatever that allowed the development of viable smokeless powder in the late 1800's rather than significantly earlier or later.
Interesting indeed! Thanks Ian :)
Oh, it's absolutely gorgeous! If only I had a chance to see one of theese fully functional at the firing range!
Kudos Ian, another amazing forgotten weapon covered very well. Not sure about the proctologist gloves though.
Not a huge semi-auto fan, except for a few - example, the M14, loved that thing, found it very accurate, enough to shoot expert every time I hit the range, and considered myself very fortunate to be issued one in Nam. But this one, I love it, would love to have a version in say .357 magnum. Love the videos, get to learn about things I have never even heard of, as well as others.
You got the title right. Danish is a very complex language to master as we have a lot of letters no one else in the world uses Æ Ø Å.
Forsøg= experimental, gevær= rifle, rekyl=recoil . So freely translated it is "experimental recoil rifle".
Again you made a very enjoyable video. :)
This is a quintesential Forgotten Weapons Gun- Obscure, old, complex, and innovative. Very cool how Denmark of all places came out with this early self loading rifle with such a cool name!
Damn, that is one intricate clockwork inside of the gun.
Wow, so cool!
You just have to love the complexity of early semi auto rifles
Thank you ian
Wow gorgeously machined 130 year old technology
4:10 Jeus Christ, you sure this isnt a Swiss Rifle after all ?
Definitely not Swiss. No jeweling on the inside of the action.
No, Swiss rifles come standard with a folding bayonet and can opener
I can see how this firearm could get fowled up easily with shards of brass, unburned powder grains, or dirt from being used in action.
Wow this is such a beautiful weapon I wonder what it sounds like whenever it shoots!
To be honest that pronunciation was surprisingly good for someone who doesn't speak danish.
Outstanding
The speed of technological development through the 1800s is truly astounding. Humanity advanced more in the hundred years between Napoleon and WW1 than ever before or, it's arguable, since.
That is a thing of beauty.
Amazing.....x3 viewed and now after Project Lightning....and the Madsen...had to revisit.
I just saw this appear in my feed and said "Hello, beautiful".
Was I talking about Ian, or the rifle? We may never know...
Always like Your videos!
Very cool gun!
Lovely design
VIKING POWER!!!
You going to places like this makes you running this channel completely by yourself even more amazing. I'm sure that you are handling guns when you go to museums that nobody is allowed to touch. Go Gun Jesus!
This might be my favorite one yet. Quirky as hell.
Looks cool
That is so flipping cool.
Looking forward for your review of the 1896 version of this rifle!
Shame it probably won't be in condition good enough to allow for shooting a few rounds with it.
Props for the Danish Pronunciation.
My god that thing has some serious steampunk internals. What a great find.
@@TheAsheybabe89 steampunk as an idea predates hipsters by several generations
Did anyone ever told you that you look like a true expert with those rubber gloves? :3
Very good looking gun
Damn, that thing is long and sleek. And look at that bayonet!
Funny im Danish and man you nearly nailed that forsøgsrekylgevær like a Danish champ! xD
For being almost 140 years old, that's a good looking rifle.
And very impressive.
I feel blessed to actually know a part of this word, because gevær is really similar to the German gewehr (both meaning rifle)
It's beautiful
I know a home schooled kid when i see one.
Because it takes one to know one
Love your videos
Facinating
I want to see a semi/fully automatic rifle where the bolt carrier contains all the mechanical parts self contained so that if it breaks you can just pop a new bolt in at the armory while the broken one gets refurbished. All it needs is a swivel bearing and a nob that runs a spring loaded track operated by either the recoil or returning gasses forcing the receiver to unlock/rotate/spit cartridge out/recharge pin/catch new cartridge/relock/fire/repeat.
Stupidly complicated for classic engineering practices but it'd be fun and compact.
The name means something like "Attempted Recoil-rifle". I am not Danish, but it's similar enough to Norwegian that I can understand it just fine.
It could be. Forsøg can mean “try”, “attempt” or “experiment” so the most likely meaning (as far as I can see) is experimental recoil rifle.
Not at all. If anything it's the other way around. Norwegian has its roots in Old West Norse, whereas Danish (and Swedish) has its roots in Old East Norse. You can still hear Old West Norse, or at least something very similar, namely Icelandic. But Norway was under, first Danish, then Swedish rule for a very long time, which heavily influenced Norwegian, and is probably why both Danes and Swedes understand Norwegian fairly well (where noone understand Danish, sometimes not even Danes).
Danish was in turn heavily influenced by German.
BTW, the name means trial or experimental recoil rifle.
Ashley Weeks Norse-Norwegian is actually much more similar to Icelandic. Norway was occupied by Denmark and then Sweden for a total of 500 years. So our language today islargely influenced by Danish and Swedish. That's why we understand each other.
I am a dane... and i would say its experimental... because an sience experiment... would be called a videnskabs forsøg.
... and it's also similar to german : Versuchs (recoil) Gewehr
"so the feed cycle is... It's unusual but it's... well it's actually pretty complicated too"
It's an interesting study in how to make a self loader to be sure, even if it's overly complicated and kind of wonky.
simple man see gun click but....
4:10 made my head hurt
I can't tell what was more exciting to me when I saw this in my sub box: weird Danish semiauto or getting to hear Ian try to pronounce "Forsøgsrekylgevær".
I'd wish you'd give a heads up next time you are in denmark. I would love to meet you, even though i am in aalborg and i would have to travel 200 miles to meet you. But i am just such a big admirer of your channel.
This trip was several months ago - and FYI, I post all of my meet ups on Patreon.