Crashing Just 3 Minutes After Takeoff | Shattered in Seconds
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- Опубліковано 14 лют 2024
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The pilots were really like, "Wow. If only there was some way to clear up all this confusion. Anyway, let me put it in a 70 or 80 degree dive to reach the altitude we think we should be at." I can't imagine being so stupid.
Isn't there an instrument aboard that could have cleared this up? What's it called? An al--- al---- yeah, an altimeter!
Ntsb cause of accident: severe retardation
@@daleupthegrove6396 It wasn't really not looking at the altimeter, but a question over whether or not they were supposed to be at 1500 m or 1500 ft. They should have gotten on the radio and clarified with ATC what their altitude was supposed to be. And even then if you think you're too high, why push the nose so far down you won't be able to recover from the dive?
Yeah, also the video went out of its way to say that the pilots were mentally sound, had no personal or money problems and their lives were pretty much hunky-dory. Were they, though? Hmmmm.@@dx1450
That's exactly what boggles my mind!!! While we're at it, lets see if we can roll it too. Just mind boggling why any pilot with any heavy experience would perform such a crazy maneuver!!!
A captain with that many hours should never have made such extreme control inputs even if the altitude was an issue!
first officer probably pissed him off with his consecutive incorrect flight instructions.
We all like to think experience makes us more safe. It's the metric pilots are judged by, but research has shown that safeties relationship to experience is actually an upside down U, where experience initially increases your safety until about 5,000 flight hours or so, and then slowly reduces your safety until around 20,000 hours where it then begins to rapidly decrease your safety. Experience beyond that point is rarely teaching you anything new, but instead is slowly causing you increased arrogance and complacency. A pilot's retirement flight is actually one of his most dangerous flights. A while back there was a handful of veteran B52 airforce pilots retiring together. They decided to do an airshow as their retirement flight and right in front of their entire families, they banked just a little too hard with not quiet enough throttle and stalled too low to recover. They all died on the last turn of their last flight. Well trained, seasoned vets. The captian of the Titanic was also on his retirement voyage. He was believed by many to be the single greatest, most experienced captain in the world at that time. That credential created the arrogance that sank the ship.
Experience is extremely overrated. Safety is a choice and a mindset.
This is all true but shouldn't in airplane in a dive be able to recover? What is wrong with the plane? Even if the pilots are in the wrong here, it feels unnerving htat diving a passenger plane can make it unrecoverable and uncontrollable
@@gradientblob1014 any airplane in too steep of a dive can be unrecoverable at a certain point.
A computer with the ability to compute both BES and Metric system plus time, altitude, windage, barometric pressure, thrust, speed, acceleration and a WHOLE shitload of other things NEVER should have crashed that aircraft. These are sacrifices by AI and I can prove it.
I never knew 1500 meters meant pushing the aircraft into a 35,000 feet/min dive
Well now you know.
Welp RIP to him
All the weight in the plane contributed to that sudden pitch. I have a feeling the captain was on some meds to believe the 1st officer about the altitude
Just means it didn't take a full minute to hit the ground.
You SAID it. Amen 🙏🏻
An extraordinary tragedy that’s particularly difficult to understand when the Captain had such a wealth of flying experience.
But the FO extremely little, though all on type. Add to that 1 video "metric" session on one only previous flight for the Captain and just that day for the FO. There may have been growing distrust and animosity too, but just a guess.
Regardless of experience and number of flights into China, watching just one video about China referring to altitude in meters instead of feet should have has both pilots checking and double checking every instruction and input. The slightest confusion should have been relayed back to ATC for clarification. As you say, an extraordinary tragedy.
he was probably high on pills
It’s just proof that mental retardation can strike at any time
12000 hours experience and then thinks a departure altitude of 1500 feet should be right...
That was my first thought as well. Especially if conditions were VFR. Even allowing for confusion in conversion, an experienced captain ought to know that "climb and maintain 1500 feet" is not something you would hear for a jetliner coming from ATC.
complacency
If the dude paid with his life he doesn’t need to be mocked in death bro, you know? Have some compassion
Darwin awards exist for a reason Trixie, and it's not for the dead @@246trixie
This chap with "no psychological burdens" must have pushed that nose over very hard indeed, no? I mean, i do not quite comprehend why the aircaft had to enter an unrecoverable dive, j'ust like that...'
All they had to do was ask ATC to verify the altitude assignment...you can always apologize if you bust an altitude if there were no separation problems with other traffic. Retired ATC here and I would rather you ask than assume something.
Common sense says that's the very first thing they should have done. And it would help, of course, if the only nation in the world using meters would switch to feet.
Bruh, what on earth would make them think that "climb AND MAINTAIN 1500 feet" after departure was normal? How did that not ring any bells to any of them?
Incorrect response Chris. How about the US switch to metric like the rest of the world......
I really do like this format more than the 40-50 minute docudramas that dont tell you anything more.
these are fine for simple scenarios, not complex kinds where there are multiple factors that lead to the crash, which managed to go past safety procedures
They should do Shorts for you - that only say, "It crashed".
@@Robin.TussinRight? People have the shortest attention spans ever holy shit 😅
Not to mention 20 minutes worth of commercials and repeating themselves over and over after every commercial break
Details, no typing errors, final considerations on causes...
The real TFC is back? I hope so. Good work. Keep on !
Back to the roots it seems. Love to see it!
Seems like the captain was acting out of frustration / anger when he pushed the nose down so abruptly.
That's my takeaway from this. Completely irrational reaction to a minor issue.
@@youngbairn"Completely irrational reaction to a minor issue."
I don't agree that it was a minor issue. If the plane actually was flying too high, it could crash with other aircrafts.
@@knrdvmmlbkkn maybe a tcas warning would have sounded in that case
@@hachimaru295"maybe a tcas (...) in that case"
It most definitively should, but that might not be enough to (successfully) take evasive action in time.
Agreed. Frustration/anger. The pilot got “confirmation” of 1500 feet from the co-pilot TWICE. Likely, he strongly suspected the tower guidance was actually for meters…and wanted to embarrass the co-pilot by making an (nearly) emergency dive to attain the co-pilot’s 1500 feet. Cargo MAY have shifted…or more likely, pilot simply lost control of his dive in this heavily loaded aircraft.
Among other things, this points to the absolute lunacy of not having standardised systems of measurement globally on airlines. Similarly with the Air Canada 'Gimli Glider' flight, with confusion over the conversion of fuel between gallons and litres.
I disagree with the 'on airlines' part only. There is absolutely no reason to limit it to just those.
Yeah I was thinking about that one too.
Theres nothing wrong with our feet/inches system either
@@ChicagoMel23- except that only 4.25% of the worlds population use them.
For Air Canada is was about kilograms and pounds. Kerozen is measured by weight on aviation.
On volume equivalent for automobiles.
I understand there can be confusion about 1500 meters or feet, although professionals should be able to handle it. However why in the world puts a captain with 14000 hours experience the plane into a crash dive with no option of recovery??
Yeah,. the sensible thing to do even if they had been at the wrong altitude would have been to contact ATC for clarification / to ask for a clearance for their current altitude.
Confused for some medical reason? Mini stroke, seizure, etc?
Cargo shifted
I will still bet All my money on cargo shift weight based on the abrupt dive, you cannot recover from that so easily, we have seen it before.
@@sanniepstein4835 All of them at once?
Idk why but im addicted to watching these before my flights
Me too. And then I freak out while I'm flying
Same. Then I have to keep telling myself "This is safer than driving" while in the air.
Many times have before the same thing happened to me... Trust me when your flight under the small turbulence your soul left your body 😅😅
i always think that if something goes wrong on my flight , i will be able to access my library of air disasters to run to ther cockpit and tell the pilots what may be going wrong lol
Please let us know if you survive! I'll be sick with worry till then.
WTF? Damn lawn darted it straight into the ground.
way to go beavis & butthead.
People don't seem to understand the amount of work included in making these videos. He has to study the crashes, and recreate every detail you're seeing in Flight Simulator. people saying that It's an easily made animation are wrong, he has to go into the simulator, find the exact places and recreate it in game. If you've never played a flight simulator this is not easy at all. To fly how he flies, recreate the exact crash in the same area, I can guarantee it takes him weeks. Not to mention the filmography, camera angles and editing involved to create a video such as this. I appreciate your skill, and your content. Thank you for making these videos.
Also, he has to track down the actual plane, or the exact type of plane for this accident! I can't imagine how difficult it must be to import a plane that the game doesn't have...
Although I feel deep compassion for all those who lost their lives, I can't help but think of the movie Dumb & Dumber in the cockpit when I think of this senseless outcome.
The only thing more negligent than the misinformation given by co-pilot was the pilot's reaction.
Thanks, very strange behaviour from an experienced Captain, initiating such a steep and aggressive descent, annoyed at the first officer and responding with aggression maybe?
Not the first time a problem with 2 systems of measurement, Gimli Glider for example.
Human error that could be prevented - so sad! Great enactment as always @TheFlightChannel!
This is so very sad. I don't see why they (or the co-pilot) couldn't have asked the ATC to repeat. RIP 3 souls lost on plane and RIP 5 souls lost on the ground. Thank you for a great presentation.
Could you imagine being on the ground and seeing that coming at you!
Even when measured against other instances of flight crew errors documented on this channel, KAC 6316 occupies a category of its own.
How the heck do you accidentally dive your large freighter jet in like a Lawn Dart ?
Every fiber of your being would be seeing your imminent catastrophic demise as the ground rushes up & your auto response would be to "pull up, terrain, pull up...!"
As the GPWS* annunciation voice would be screaming in your ears !
(* Ground Proximity Warning System, for those in Rio Linda)
Ill agree with another commentor that a big "cargo shift / slip" may have occurred, due to the sudden large control input dive, that once said cargo - (even if just part of it) - broke its restraint & went forward, the plane was doomed.
If you doubt, look up the National Airlines flight ✈️ (Afghanistan, I think) that was carrying 2 tanks & an APC and the pilot pitched aggressively up - ostensibly to avoid RPGs by militant forces - but the rearward angle broke the heavy straps, the APC fell backwards & the doomed plane stalled, crashed & burned.
I always have a soft spot for the dc10 or md11 , they are built differently beauty with their extra engine on the vertical stabilizer 👍
The tail on the MD-11 is smaller than the one used on the DC-10, so it doesn't respond as quickly to inputs or unusual attitudes. It's also the reason, when landing an MD-11, they have to land at a higher speed to maintain some control over the elevators and rudder.
Why?
@@deepthinker999 It's a characteristic of the airplane. The MD11 has been involved in a few accidents due to this. ua-cam.com/video/q8OW4y3HC44/v-deo.html
@@deepthinker999 because it doesn't. But he had 12k hrs on it, so...
more fuel efficient. The MD11 was designed as an efficiency upgrade over the DC10.@@deepthinker999
If they don't respond as quickly to inputs, THEN THE DIVE WOULD HAVE NEVER BEGAN IN THE FIRST PLACE!
- What's our altitude clearance?
- It's 1500 meters.
- No, I want to hear it in feet.
- Ok, 1500 feet.
- Well, then...
Finally a new video, thank you TFC. I hope to see more of these in the future.
If the aircraft had taken off from any other country, the accident would not have occurred since there would not have been any confusion between feet and meters. Not only were there three flight crew members onboard the plane who lost their lives, there also five people on the ground whose loss was not included by TFC. I had hoped this video would end with an announcement that Shanghai Airport would go along with the rest of the world and use feet instead of meters. Eight people would still be alive if the airport had not been aware of the possible confusion that was apparent in this tragic accident. It will not stop me from traveling by plane, but I feel safer in a country, America, that uses feet, not meters. Blessings to the departed.
Fly Mainline Domestic Carriers whenever possible. Anything else is taking a chance.
I don't think it was a measurement unit issue. On the surface, it looks like it but that nosedive was something more. Aggressive and beyond the pale. Spatial disorientation. No way a pilot, even a confused one would put their jet into such a dive so close to the ground.
If there is only 1 country using the metric system, then it should follow the rest of the world. In engineering this is called standardisation and it is precisely because of this. To avoid confusion and make things easier for everyone
Good luck getting China to comply
China has always been childish in this regard. Late to the party but always want to be the focus of attention.
Although i agree with you, this is one of those situations us pilots scratch our heads and go: wtf was the pilot/captain thinking?
If you can't tell what 1500 feet on a clear day looks like, or even you know, HOW FUCKING HIGH OFF THE GROUND YOU HAVE TO BE IN ORDER NOT TO CRASH, by simply looking outside the flight deck on said clear day, then you're either too tired to fly, high/drunk, medical condition, or suicide mission. Or there was some sort of system's failure and the gov't/airlines covered it up, take your pick.
If this truly was an uncontrolled dive that could not be recovered from, my money is either suicide or shifted cargo, even though the official report says no cargo shifted, something doesn't sit right with me on this case.
It's not just China. Russia and North Korea also use the metric system.
Finally! I was waiting for this topic to be covered by this channel!
Well for anyone to declare that cargo could not shift because there was no room is completely nuts. Enough rapid pitch change can easily overcome cargo hold downs and shift the center of gravity to a point that further elevator deflections will not be sufficient to correct the original downward pitch. Cargo flights require gentle handling. The Captain was completely at fault even if the FO was confused in the altitude clearance measurement system. The Captain should have heard the altitude clearance at the same time as the FO, and known the FO was wrong, but no, instead of saying so the Captain makes a radical control input to shock the FO into reality instead of telling the FO off. Bad attitude crashed the aircraft.
Do you have to accelerate very slowly in a cargo plane?😂😂😂
The pilot turned his MD-11 into a massive Stuka Dive Bomber!
Truly bizarre unless deliberate.
It blows my mind that to go down 3000 feet, it was deemed appropriate to push so hard forward on the yolk that you enter into a 35000ft/min dive.
That is extreme confusion. Bith to the captaon and to me. My mouth fell open when you said 35k ft/min
That's probably the most bizarre crew failure I've seen on YT
Those KAL pilots sure do have a track record of CFT
To super summarize: this all screams "inadvertant cargo shift caused CG shift, caused by captains deliberate overly steep dive", from which insufficient altitude remained from which to recover.
RIP to the 3 Souls lost + those on the ground, in Jesus name !
Korean had a bad year that year. There was also the one (I think it was flight 8559, a cargo flight) that crashed just a minute after takeoff due to a faulty altimeter on the captain's side.
Thank you for this detailed video. First, the Captain, apparently, had only flown to/from Shanghai once before. I would have wanted him to fly the copilot seat, regardless of his seniority, with a pilot in command who has flown the Shanghai route many times to guide him during a "check flight." This could be a revenue flight, but with familiarization being offered the senior pilot. This is not just because of the metric/English measurement issue; it's also because the Captain got the heading wrong initially on takeoff and had to correct it. Second, If I recall correctly, the MD-11 has a Mode Control Panel with which the pilot can command ascent or descent and dial in the degree of flaps desired. (On a Boeing widebody this is called the Flight Control Panel) Had he used that, he could have descended safely (albeit to the wrong altitude. Why he would steeply nose over like that is a mystery to me, especially with those thousands of hours. Is it possible he was qualified, but not proficient?
Korean civil pilots, at least at the time of the accident, were most of them former military pilots. And as far as I know, without to much conversion training. So much of the habits they had as military pilots were translated (with disastrous consequences) into their civil piloting routines.
There is I think documentation on this as there were many accidents cause by this attitude.
@@AlexandruBurda Excellent observation. Indeed Korean Air had to make huge efforts to change Captain attitudes so that they would tolerate and listen when a copilot disagreed with a decision.
it's the ole 'human factor'.......
NO pilot worth his wings would ever push the nose so far forward to actually lose control
How could an experienced pilot not see how close he was to the buildings below? I don't say that in a blaming way I honestly don't know.
I agree. The rational here does not make sense. It is as if we can't tell with certainty the reason for the crew's actions.
The captain and copilot obviously hadn't had enough coffee to drink.
They had something to drink...
Wow!
Thank you sir, Welcome back!
I'm not a pilot but I hopped onto MSFS with a MD-11 and can easily tell the difference between 1500ft and 1500 meters in altitude. 1500ft compared to nearly 5000ft in altitude is without question easily discernable. I feel that a pilot with nearly 13,000 of total flight hour experience and nearly 5000 hours in the MD-11 there should be no excuse for such a incident to occur. There must have been other factors involved here.
68 TONS of cargo. It's amazing to me these aircraft can fly with this much weight! That's the equivalent of 800 passengers, this aircraft normally only carried 310 people at max as a passenger aircraft.
I think you forgot to factor in the baggage for those passenger, At 800 passengers the total weight per person would only be 85kg which is much too low for the average person plus baggage (and food and drink and other per passenger items). Not to mention that cargo does not need seats and the floor in the middle of the fuselage might be removed too.
Good points. 85kg per person seemed reasonable with some passengers being children and up to half being women. Didn't think about baggage. Some people checking 150 kg of bags!@@Taladar2003
You should at that 85kg is 187 pounds.
Seems like a pretty chunky average, no? @@ChicagoMel23
Equivalent to about 2 fully loaded Semi Trucks !
And arrives much faster lol
During this period Korean Air aircraft were dropping like flies due to insanely poor CRM and pilot error.
& the cultural issue that caused this.
You know I love the sound of a prop. Thanks for sharing buddy 👍✈👍
So tragic……and weird.
“We’re cruising at an altitude that’s almost at 5000 Ft!
That’s where No Plane has Ever Been Before And
Waaaaay Past The Plane’s Designed Capability To
Handle Such Incredible Altitudes!!
Hurry Hurry We Only Have A Couple Of Seconds
To Save The Plane And All Souls On Board And
Get This Plane Back To The Safe Altitude Of
1500 Ft And Back Within The Safe Parameters
Of It’s Design Right Now” And Captain Genius
In His Heroic Attempt To Save His Plane And Everyone Else
From The Deadly Altitude Of 4,900 Ft
Instantly Proceeds To Put The Plane In
A Vertical Nose Dive!! We All Know Hitting
The Ground At 500 MPH Beats The Living Hell
Out Of Being At The Cruising Attitude Of 4,900 Ft. !!
12:21 you need to acknowledge the people who perished on the ground! They were the real victims.
Totally agree.
Thank you. I came here looking for this comment.
Me too
Nice!! One I haven't seen before! Good work.
Anwesome video! RIP.
My confusion here is why pilots don't have the ability to shut off the flight computer and fly this like a real airplane?
They do, they just disconnect Autopilot & they have control. Auto Throttle is a separate control as well. Completely irrational response to being over 3,000 ft too high. Should haver contacted ATC for clarification & then to ask for higher clearance if they are too high. I feel sorry for the Mechanic & the ground causalities..
Did you watch the video & read the script? It seems they were both trying to pull up. Maybe an overspeed condition makes control impossible? I saw no mention of this being a computer induced or controlled maneuver.
The autopilot didn’t cause the crash, the captain manually put the plane into a steep dive, from which they were unable to recover. If autopilot was used they could have simply input the altitude they wished to achieve, and the plane would have gone down to 1,500 feet, which actually should have been 4,900 feet. They were supposed to fly at 1,500 meters, or 4,900 feet.
@@user-eb6bw5jn1y
That's really all that makes sense to me.
How the heck do you accidentally dive your large freighter jet in like a Lawn Dart ?
Every fiber of your being would be seeing your imminent catastrophic demise as the ground rushes up & your auto response would be to "pull up, terrain, pull up...!"
As the GPWS* annunciation voice would be screaming in your ears !
(* Ground Proximity Warning System, for those in Rio Linda)
@@carljaekle From all of the known available data the pilots caused the crash. Why is a mystery.
How these pilots got their license and were able to breathe unassisted is one of life’s great mysteries
This is mindblowing. How could such thing can happen?
R.I.P to CPT : Hong sung sil (홍성실), F.O : Park bon suk (박본석) and an Engineer : Park byung gi (박병기)
As Korean, I think mechanical problem is the cause of the accident. First, descent 1500m to 1500ft is pilot fault, but when pilots tries to climb the aircraft, it didn't respond.. I think without mechanical problem, KE6316 didn't crash
I knew Capt Hong, experienced and smiling person when I handled his flight in CGK airport...so sad
Once again, TFC proves it is the Gold Standard against which the rest of the aviation accident reconstruction channels must be measured. Bravo and Kudos!
No, that accolade goes to Mentour Pilot.
I agree. He definitely took over first place.@@sapphirejunction8993
Thank goodness these pilots flew cargo flights and not passengers. Terrible airmanship, hard to believe such an experienced captain can behave in such a slapdash way
This is the only time I read, thanks.
First thing first if I were in that situation, I would contact ATC for my zone and ask for confirmations or informations for my allowed altitudes.
btw 1500 feet is clearly not an expected altitude on departure over a city. You should expect 4000 feet clearance at least right after takeoff, and that was the case.
But that?!? A deep dive?
This is mind blowing. Does not give me much faith in the mindset of Korean’s crew, training or basic understanding.
Incredibly stupid. Glad there were no passengers.
Cocked up on so many levels! Wow!
Same video I was going to make before I changed my mind.... Love your channel always, TFC. Nice video too.
Also, what he didn't tell you is that the crew also was trimming the aircraft down as they were pitching forward, which contributed to them not being able to pull up.
TFC?
I’ve heard of trimming down but not a pilot. Can you define trimming down? You mean something other than the elevators being used to pitch down? Thank you, Dr. J. ✈️😊
@@richardjohnson455 What it means to trim down is basically to set your elevators to a preset pitch so that it releases the amount of pressure needed on the controls by the pilot to maintain a set pitch.
@@gaztasticOkay, great, thanks. Why would the experienced Captain flying departure over huge population center have any reason to believe the altitude numbers 1,500 FEET were close to correct? I’ve never heard of any plane suddenly intentionally correctly required to dive during their initial climb-out. Why would he believe that? Thanks.
@@richardjohnson455 It remains a mystery. No reference here to the CVR.
Just imagine what this crew would have done if they had faced an actual emergency
this has got to be one of the most bizarre crashes in the history of aviation
Wow. A captain with 12000 hours of flying experience does this? How preliminary.
What a beautiful video, TFC! Outstanding graphics!
The Capt on this flight is a mystery. Decent weather, good visibility, daylight and sober. Still dunks it into the ground. I don't get it.
Maybe one minute of math is in order. When you find yourself flying an aircraft having a maximum takeoff weight over 600,000 lbs, remember this:
Quick rough conversion...
meters to feet, multiply by 3
feet to meters, divide by 3
In addition, inertia is not your friend at a steep dive at 1500 feet. Might need 20k feet to pull out of this blunder.
Also in memory of the three innocent individuals who lost their lives as a result.
Okay, so not only did they try to use feet despite being told to use meters, but they also thought plunging the plane down like an Olympic swimmer was the best solution to 'fix their altitude'. Keep in mind that these are simple, basic things.
Thank you for the new material finally, hopefully the original creator is still doing this, however it seems to be close to the original way of how it's done with some oddities so I am not sure. The original creator was spot on.
Was the channel sold?
@@RipRoaringGarage We're not sure, but the sudden increase in reuploads have made people wonder. I can tell this one is new because they recognize the people who died at the end. The reuploads just sort of abruptly end. TFC hasn't supplied any explanation of the reuploads or the other changes.
@@lunayoshi Ive been watching tfc for a long time, back when it was him or bootleg nat geo stuff. Maybe he was on vacation, or ill? Or maybe some youtube monetization issues? Still, the value I see, is in remembering these events, less about being perfect. Im not sure of what his background is, but I can say he has learned and uses aviation terminlogy way more than early early vids.
I have no words. "lucky we resolved that initial problem just in time for me to nose dive it into the ground at full noise."
it is very critical for ALL AIRPORTS should follow same measurement system to prevent this kind of avoidable accidents....
Wonderful graphics, like real life. Then Michael Jackson did that turn 3:24
Interesting video
The difference between 1500 ft and 1500 m is more than triple , you don't need 13,000 flight hours to see the difference.
Why do you only show the in memorandum for 1/10th of a millisecond?
Reminds of a particular landing Mars a few years ago. Since then, the US has reverted back to Imperial measurements of distances and velocities (speed limits).
Yes, the problem there was one team using metric, and another using imperial without sending the used unit with the numbers. The spacecraft was supposed to go at 160 km aka 100 miles altitude for aerobraking, but they put it at 100 km altitude, which burnt it up.
"Since then, the (...) velocities (speed limits)."
Not imperial measures (that's a British concept) but U. S. customary units. The latter aren't equivalent to the former in all cases.
@@knrdvmmlbkknthis is why the metric system should always be the default system. Only one country doesn’t use it but really should. I remember as a teenager in school we were taught about metric system. Much easier to use than the multi tiered system of the USA.
@@RJDA.Dakota"Only one country (...) but really should."
I'm reasonably sure it's used all over the world. It would presumably be hard not to use it to any extent.
@@knrdvmmlbkkn I guess you are saying driving at 50 mph in Britain is not the same as driving 50 mph in the US. Different units somehow?
Can i ask- have any accidenta been cause by the vertical stabiliser being damaged due to something happening with the engine mounted on the stabiliser like this mcdouglas? I know the 10 also had this, i know one failed but that was to do with the jack screw i think (the one that tried to fly inverted)
It seems a stupid place to out an engine…no?
If this is a silly question, pardon my ignorance: if in doubt, why not just radio ATC and ask the controller to reiterate the altitude clearance?
That's not a silly question at all. Others have commented that that would have been a good idea. I think some of it being to do with them not wanting to seem like fools for not knowing. And also I think there's a degree of complacency in not doing a safety briefing. It seems unbelievable that the an experienced Captain would treat it like a fighter jet. We can't really know the full answer. Hope that helps.
Just watching that plane take a dive like that made my heart sink.
Well I learned something today as I didn't know China used metric for aircraft navigation.But how could such an apparently calm and experienced Captain not question only being cleared to 1500 feet on take off? Yes I know he'd only flown this route once before,but 10,000 or more flight hours shouldn't let this happen regardless of any other factors.I'm guessing from this that they can't set the aircraft to have inputs in metric,so they have to convert what ATC in China gives them,convert it to imperial and then set the plane accordingly? If this is the case as it's all computer software it can't be hard to make the plane accept metric,unless I missed this somewhere?
If there is a DC-10 sim package, I would like to see FedEx 705. It's still a flight number used out of MEM today.
sim?
Surely, if you think you might be at three times your assigned altitude you query it with ATC. Also, ATC could have been shouting if they had been.
*I'm not a pilot, but common sense is all that you need to look at the ground under those conditions and know that from experience something wasn't right and NOT to descend as you were too close to the ground!*
I think if the confusion of both captain and first officer was that high, it's been difficult to recover from the nose-dive situation. May they rest in peace.
I knew a pilot that was English and worked for a while at Korean Airlines as a captain. He said that ALL Korean flights had to have an American, or British or an Aussie in one seat or the other because Koreans could not get everything about flying in order. They ALWAYS effed something up and the foreigner had to straighten things out. ALWAYS.
I would worry if I worked in an airline who forces you to have a person who cannot spell and possibly can't read (or write sometimes, let alone fly) right next to you.
How sad that in an era of international standards there still exceptions to the rule. Defeats the object of the exercise. 🙏🙏🙏
Was the Captain's words before that dive, "I'll show you 1500 feet!"
may they rest in peace
This is the most bizarre crash I have ever watch, confusion in the cockpit
from meters to feet AGL caused the pilots to controlled flight in to the ground?
AGL?
@@K1OIK at ground level
@@pieseldatches How many readers do you think would have known that?
@@K1OIK AGL = Above Ground Level
@@chrismerkel9604 How many readers do you think would have known that?
The pilots did not know how to fly this thing...
they seem to both be experienced pilots , but after departure your cleared to climb to ft level , not troll around at 1500 FEET , so sad for them !
I really think the captain tried to kamikaze and that was his intention all along, and this was his way of masking it... it is physically impossible for a child to accidentally do what the captain just did
My anxiety kicked in towards the end sheesh!
Pilots in the cockpit: Sum-Ting Wong and Wee Too Loo. Relief crew: Ho-Li Fuk and Bing Dang Ooh.
I just wonder if the captain had some sort of seizure or medical issue while at the controls. By the time the first officer reacted, the plane had picked up too much speed and there wasn't enough altitude to recover it. There's not enough evidence to prove it either way.
it a pity the actual cvr wasnt avilable to listen to and gauge frustration levels even with transalation
Your guess is just as good as any of the others.
I can't imagine standard operating practice involves yeeting your plane into a nosedive