When I was younger I worked for John Martz and made parts, grips and magazine bases for his .45 Lugers. I was able to fire the Martz .45 and the Krausewerke .45 and enjoyed both of them. I found the Krausewerke .45 to be the most accurate. Also, there is a German citizen who I wrote to a few years ago who built a few .45 Lugers.
Tom, nice video. That B/W photo fo the 45 luger came from me when I was stationed at Leavenworth KS CGSG school library. The Library gave me a copy of the negative they had on file during the US test in 2007-8-9. I give it to Jan Still to use in his book. He said he would give me a credit. He did not do that:(. Mark Rendina
I'm clueless as to where Luger numbers 2 through 6 may be found. But Lugerman rebuilt my C96 broomhandle ex Chinese warlord/army pos, and sent back a very tight shooter. Kudos to Lugerman!
while on active duty as a Marine, I went to Foriegn weapons school at Aberdeen proving MD. They have two of the original test .45 cal. Lugers , in the historical collection, (Not Open to public) .
Pretty impressive quality for a reproduction. I have owned two military issued lugers. The first my dad loaded and dropped the slide in our house and it proceeded to empty the clip through our roof (firing pin stuck). My mom was pissed. I acquired it from my dad some years later and eventually sold it. The second I got in a trade and it was in rough shape so I traded it for a Government issue 1911. One thing about them, they are built like wrist watches and except for some later military models, are exceptionally high quality. The gun I always wanted was the broomhandle. Love the look.
My late father Joseph J Schroeder Jr was hired to appraise the collection in Louisiana. It was probably the mid to late 70s. I remember him talking about examining a 45 Lugar there. My dad had a number of the 45 caliber US test pieces in his collection at one time, including a Savage, a Bergmann and a Webley. Have you ever discussed the “baby Lugar” prototype pocket pistol, on your channel? My dad sold it on consignment for his friend Carl Wilson in the early 80s. I remember he sold it for $50,000, he let me hold it and I was scared to touch it, as $50,000 seemed like all the money in the world to me then! In the mid 90s I joined my dad on a working vacation to UK and we visited a prominent gun collector friend of his there. In the collection, there was the baby Lugar, the UK collector now owned it! I can’t recall his name now, I remember my dad telling me the collector, who owned a pharmaceutical company as I recall, later moved to Switzerland when UK got stricter with gun laws. Which is rarer, and which is more valuable now, the 45 test piece Lugar or the baby Lugar?
I found on the internet that the no. 2 .45 Luger was in the Sidney Aberman collection in the 1950’s and was sold in 1989 and is in a private collection. After reading more, the California dealer who acquired it after Abermans death, sold it to an Indonesian billionaire, Yani Haryanto for one million dollars. The gun changed hands several times and was last sold at a Greg Martin auction in 2010 for $494,500 dollars to a celebrity who has a huge gun collection. It will always be known as the million dollar Luger.
This .45 Cal Lugers was made in China . Chinese made copys of allmost every famous western guns. You can find .45 Cal Mauser C 96 ,, Bromhandel " aswell as Mauser BOLO - C 711 with rapidfire switch. The 45. Cal Lugers China made in Long Barrel ,, Marine " or ,, Artillerie " Version incl. shoulderstock Holsters ! The german gunmagazin ,, Visier" made very nice reports incl. testing this China made Lugers & Mausers in the 1980s !
I remember Mr. Shattuck; he would visit John Martz' shop and I met him there. He was a very nice man respectful and interested in how the Lugers were built.
Thanks for a very interesting video. I also recall an Article in the American Rifleman in the 1990s about the 45ACP Luger. But I no longer have that issue. The first Wall Street Movie also had a scene where Gordon Geko opened his gun cabinet at a dinner party and showed off the 45 Acp Luger that he had just gotten. Of course, it was a prop gun. Thank God the US Army adopted the 1911 and 1911 A-1. It was a fair superior combat handgun.
switzerland adopted the 7.65 parrabellum luger as their military pistol for 46 years. seemed to be strong enough for them. PS: the swiss variant was made by Waffen Fabrik Bern. so no, you didn't have to import them from germany to adopt them for your military.
Yes , this Luger 7.65 Parabellums was also ,,made in germany oberndorf am neckar " and this 7.65 Cal. was similar powerful as the mauser 7.62 & 7.63 tokarev .
I vaguely remember a magazine article from years ago where the private owner allowed a gun writer to handle and possibly fire the .45 Luger. It may have been Garry James and may have been a reproduction.
I remember reading the article he wrote about it. It was in one of the Gun Magazines that was published in Peoria Illinois. I thought there was a picture in there. Garry and the owner fired it once or twice and in the article he said they looked at each other and said what are we doing? If a part breaks we will never get another original part to replace it. I think it was after the sale you mentioned to a private owner. The title I believe was shooting a million dollar gun. Hope this helps.
I remember a Gun Digest article stating that seven of these firearms were made for the US. Army. If I recall the article stated that there were four that their locations are known. That leaves three that are out there somewhere. Six figures for them, or so they say.
I actually got to hold that Luger back in 2010 at the gun store that was acting as the agent for the buyer, the gun sold for $575k but the previous owner had supposedly paid $1.6 million for the gun just four years before.
In the novelization of the resident evil videogame The Umbrella Conspiracy, the STARS team gun-nut Barry Burton has a poster of a “rare gold-plated .45 luger” in his locker.
Back in the early 80's, Guns an Ammo did an big article on these, with lots of info an really nice closeup pics. An I believe ( SEE I DIDN'T SAY I HEARD) they alluded to a # 7 pistol if my memory serves me right, an I think it do's. Throughly enjoyed the vid, as its my hope to bump into an original .45 acp Luger somewhere, we all have to have a dream, lol. Hell of a piece of german engineering in my book tho, but I'm a german weapons fanboy fom way back in the 60's. Thx for the vid
What I always found interesting about those is when DWM declined to make more of them for the US Army claiming it would be disruptive to current contracts to make 9mm versions, no one suggested they link up and build a factory to make licensed versions in the US.
Thanks for showing us that beautiful pistol along with the standard ones for comparison Tom! Any chance you can get your hands on a Remington Model 53? I've only ever seen some black and white photos like the one you showed of the Luger. Not sure of how many test pistols were made but I believe that at least one survives.
Tales of the Gun TV show had an episode on The Luger and I believe they showed one of the .45’s in the episode. It’s been 20 years since I’ve seen the show tho.
I have that on VHS! IN it I think is where they stated that 5 were made for the US test. I also said that two were purposely destroyed during testing and that only 3 remained of the 5. And I THOUGHT they said that only 2 were known to still exist. But those shows were made in the 80s... So the other one may have surfaced. But My memory may be failing. LoL 😂
The history channel had number 2 on there some years ago when they filmed a firearms show with an episode involving a Luger collector, may have been around 2006 or 2008.
I might know where a P38 ""short barrel " might be. Serial number under 200. If my memory serves me right. It's been a while. His grandpa left it to him. His grandfather was brought over to the us under operation paperclip.
If you can find the Tales of the gun that covers the .45 lugars. My memory may be failing, but IT was fascinating to me so I remember much. They said that 5 were made for the US army test. Two were purposely destroyed as part of the test. So only 3 remained. And at that time only 2 were known to remain, but a third was supposed to still exist but no one knows where it is. I thought you said 6 were made. If I'm wrong could you supply a Link Please, I'm a World War I & II enthusiast. And would love to know more about these 45s.
Tom there were 1127 walkers made! the issue with them was idiots loading conical bullets backwards causing an over pressure actually blew the chamber out of the cylinder!! ! and i heard 5 45ACP Luger's were made 2 for army trials and 3 on private orders buyers unknown! none were made for south american samples although DWM did offer them to south American govts for a short time!
I have pictures of the one in the Norton Gallery I took while it was still in the case. Not very clear but as good as I could get. The only marks on the gun visible from the left side are nitro proof on the receiver and some type of stamp under the barrel. No serial number or makers stamp are visible. There are no markings to denote “safe”. It also has very little wear showing.
Tom, I think I saw "the million dollar Luger" in the back of one of your GUN safes? I think you bought it several years ago and forgotten it. Welcome to the retirement life. 😎😎
I got to admit that Im not a Fan of Lugers, don't dislike them either. That 45cal weapon looks like a keeper to me. Bigger abd more powerful than the 9mm and has the look and feel of a 'war gun' in addition to providing protection against banditos and carnivorous cryptids!
@@atomicwedgie8176 No. the place is primarily an art gallery displaying Norton’s art. The guns are a small part of the museum. Frederick B. Remington original bronze, for example. The curator likely is not aware of the significance of the piece. A treasure.
Get hold of the Collector Grade Publications three volume book "Pistole Parabellum History of the "Luger System" " by Joachim Gortz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess. In volume 1 there is a full chapter (Chapter 18) on "The US .45 M1907 Parabellum".
One of those ended in Argentina, in the hands of one of A.H. ex bodyduards. He gave as a present to a friend. Later that gun was stolen, who knows, maybe is now in USA where the market is bigger
The US was never going to adopt a Luger. It was all a show. Look at the history before those trials and see what was adopted in the past and what countries manufactured those arms.
The Army went with the 1911 .45 ACP because the Philippino's were amped up on betel nut and would keep advancing even after being struck by multiple. 38 caliber rounds. The. 38 revolver was the standard issue for both the army and multiple police forces as well. The ejected cases are pretty well distorted when they are, barely, extracted.
There were a lot more than two test units made, one military establishment, Aberdeen Proving ground in MD historically held two of the originals on its own. No one knows how many were made but it makes sense that they would have produced at least 10 to 20 for their own testing and to potentially offer to other countries that liked 45 calibre handguns like Britain and all the armies of its Empire. No gun manufacturer on Earth would go the massive expense of all that tooling just to make two units, they would literally have cost the historical equivalent of a quarter of a million bucks each to build at that rate! Don't be fooled by the hype, think of the practical manufacturing economics involved. My bet is that most simply "disappeared" into the private collections of a few of the high ranking Military brass involved in the testing procedure and cannot therefore ever come to light because their descendants are still holding stolen Government property which they know would be seized. How am I doing so far?
Congratulations on your amazing feat of skill and intelligence. Your prize will arrive on the second Tuesday of next week. Tell the other big winner that was first.
Gun Jesus loved Lugerman's repro, it's pretty cool that a high quality .45 Luger is being produed right here in the US.
When I was younger I worked for John Martz and made parts, grips and magazine bases for his .45 Lugers. I was able to fire the Martz .45 and the Krausewerke .45 and enjoyed both of them. I found the Krausewerke .45 to be the most accurate. Also, there is a German citizen who I wrote to a few years ago who built a few .45 Lugers.
Tom, nice video. That B/W photo fo the 45 luger came from me when I was stationed at Leavenworth KS CGSG school library. The Library gave me a copy of the negative they had on file during the US test in 2007-8-9. I give it to Jan Still to use in his book. He said he would give me a credit. He did not do that:(. Mark Rendina
what a dick he is for not giving you credit. shame on him.
I'm clueless as to where Luger numbers 2 through 6 may be found. But Lugerman rebuilt my C96 broomhandle ex Chinese warlord/army pos, and sent back a very tight shooter. Kudos to Lugerman!
while on active duty as a Marine, I went to Foriegn weapons school at Aberdeen proving MD. They have two of the original test .45 cal. Lugers , in the historical collection, (Not Open to public) .
Pretty impressive quality for a reproduction. I have owned two military issued lugers. The first my dad loaded and dropped the slide in our house and it proceeded to empty the clip through our roof (firing pin stuck). My mom was pissed. I acquired it from my dad some years later and eventually sold it. The second I got in a trade and it was in rough shape so I traded it for a Government issue 1911. One thing about them, they are built like wrist watches and except for some later military models, are exceptionally high quality. The gun I always wanted was the broomhandle. Love the look.
My late father Joseph J Schroeder Jr was hired to appraise the collection in Louisiana. It was probably the mid to late 70s. I remember him talking about examining a 45 Lugar there. My dad had a number of the 45 caliber US test pieces in his collection at one time, including a Savage, a Bergmann and a Webley.
Have you ever discussed the “baby Lugar” prototype pocket pistol, on your channel? My dad sold it on consignment for his friend Carl Wilson in the early 80s. I remember he sold it for $50,000, he let me hold it and I was scared to touch it, as $50,000 seemed like all the money in the world to me then!
In the mid 90s I joined my dad on a working vacation to UK and we visited a prominent gun collector friend of his there. In the collection, there was the baby Lugar, the UK collector now owned it!
I can’t recall his name now, I remember my dad telling me the collector, who owned a pharmaceutical company as I recall, later moved to Switzerland when UK got stricter with gun laws.
Which is rarer, and which is more valuable now, the 45 test piece Lugar or the baby Lugar?
Do you remember how that Webley was to fire?? Any thoughts on it at all would be great to hear 😊
I found on the internet that the no. 2 .45 Luger was in the Sidney Aberman collection in the 1950’s and was sold in 1989 and is in a private collection. After reading more, the California dealer who acquired it after Abermans death, sold it to an Indonesian billionaire, Yani Haryanto for one million dollars. The gun changed hands several times and was last sold at a Greg Martin auction in 2010 for $494,500 dollars to a celebrity who has a huge gun collection. It will always be known as the million dollar Luger.
James Earl Jones?
This .45 Cal Lugers was made in China . Chinese made copys of allmost every famous western guns. You can find .45 Cal Mauser C 96 ,, Bromhandel " aswell as Mauser BOLO - C 711 with rapidfire switch. The 45. Cal Lugers China made in Long Barrel ,, Marine " or ,, Artillerie " Version incl. shoulderstock Holsters ! The german gunmagazin ,, Visier" made very nice reports incl. testing this China made Lugers & Mausers in the 1980s !
@@wolfgangemmerich7552 This is NOT about Chinese made replicas.
so this clown can not even get on the internet ..wow
Recently picked up a Savage 1907 .45 test gun. Also saw a .45 Luger at Ralph Shattuck’s house before he passed.
Wow!
I remember Mr. Shattuck; he would visit John Martz' shop and I met him there. He was a very nice man respectful and interested in how the Lugers were built.
I remember as a kid in the 70s, you could get matching number Lugers for $200. Today 2000+
Thanks for a very interesting video. I also recall an Article in the American Rifleman in the 1990s about the 45ACP Luger. But I no longer have that issue. The first Wall Street Movie also had a scene where Gordon Geko opened his gun cabinet at a dinner party and showed off the 45 Acp Luger that he had just gotten. Of course, it was a prop gun. Thank God the US Army adopted the 1911 and 1911 A-1. It was a fair superior combat handgun.
switzerland adopted the 7.65 parrabellum luger as their military pistol for 46 years.
seemed to be strong enough for them.
PS: the swiss variant was made by Waffen Fabrik Bern. so no, you didn't have to import them from germany to adopt them for your military.
Yes , this Luger 7.65 Parabellums was also ,,made in germany oberndorf am neckar " and this 7.65 Cal. was similar powerful as the mauser 7.62 & 7.63 tokarev .
I vaguely remember a magazine article from years ago where the private owner allowed a gun writer to handle and possibly fire the .45 Luger. It may have been Garry James and may have been a reproduction.
I remember reading the article he wrote about it. It was in one of the Gun Magazines that was published in Peoria Illinois. I thought there was a picture in there. Garry and the owner fired it once or twice and in the article he said they looked at each other and said what are we doing? If a part breaks we will never get another original part to replace it. I think it was after the sale you mentioned to a private owner. The title I believe was shooting a million dollar gun. Hope this helps.
I remember a Gun Digest article stating that seven of these firearms were made for the US. Army. If I recall the article stated that there were four that their locations are known. That leaves three that are out there somewhere. Six figures for them, or so they say.
I actually got to hold that Luger back in 2010 at the gun store that was acting as the agent for the buyer, the gun sold for $575k but the previous owner had supposedly paid $1.6 million for the gun just four years before.
In the novelization of the resident evil videogame The Umbrella Conspiracy, the STARS team gun-nut Barry Burton has a poster of a “rare gold-plated .45 luger” in his locker.
Very interesting history, thanks!
Back in the early 80's, Guns an Ammo did an big article on these, with lots of info an really nice closeup pics. An I believe ( SEE I DIDN'T SAY I HEARD) they alluded to a # 7 pistol if my memory serves me right, an I think it do's. Throughly enjoyed the vid, as its my hope to bump into an original .45 acp Luger somewhere, we all have to have a dream, lol. Hell of a piece of german engineering in my book tho, but I'm a german weapons fanboy fom way back in the 60's. Thx for the vid
What I always found interesting about those is when DWM declined to make more of them for the US Army claiming it would be disruptive to current contracts to make 9mm versions, no one suggested they link up and build a factory to make licensed versions in the US.
"We Shoot the Million$$ Luger" by Garry James "Guns & Ammo" June 1994.
Got my original magazine. No need for ebay.@user-lp2ck1yt9b
I still have that issue, somewhere, in my collection. 🤠
"Return of the .45 Luger" by Garry James "Gun & Ammo" March 1998. The Krausewerke .45 Luger
Thanks for showing us that beautiful pistol along with the standard ones for comparison Tom! Any chance you can get your hands on a Remington Model 53? I've only ever seen some black and white photos like the one you showed of the Luger. Not sure of how many test pistols were made but I believe that at least one survives.
Tales of the Gun TV show had an episode on The Luger and I believe they showed one of the .45’s in the episode. It’s been 20 years since I’ve seen the show tho.
I have that on VHS! IN it I think is where they stated that 5 were made for the US test. I also said that two were purposely destroyed during testing and that only 3 remained of the 5. And I THOUGHT they said that only 2 were known to still exist. But those shows were made in the 80s... So the other one may have surfaced. But My memory may be failing. LoL 😂
The history channel had number 2 on there some years ago when they filmed a firearms show with an episode involving a Luger collector, may have been around 2006 or 2008.
I might know where a P38 ""short barrel " might be. Serial number under 200. If my memory serves me right. It's been a while. His grandpa left it to him. His grandfather was brought over to the us under operation paperclip.
Thanks for doing these videos man!
If you can find the Tales of the gun that covers the .45 lugars. My memory may be failing, but IT was fascinating to me so I remember much. They said that 5 were made for the US army test. Two were purposely destroyed as part of the test. So only 3 remained. And at that time only 2 were known to remain, but a third was supposed to still exist but no one knows where it is. I thought you said 6 were made. If I'm wrong could you supply a Link Please, I'm a World War I & II enthusiast. And would love to know more about these 45s.
A 1st model Colt dragoon in .45 caliber must be worth about a million dollars too. Since there were none.
I herd Hans Kammler carried the million dollar gun as a wonder weapon, and still has it to this day. 🤠💥
Another great video with some girthy info on lugers!!
it was featured in WALLSTREET 1987 too!
Tom there were 1127 walkers made! the issue with them was idiots loading conical bullets backwards causing an over pressure actually blew the chamber out of the cylinder!! ! and i heard 5 45ACP Luger's were made 2 for army trials and 3 on private orders buyers unknown! none were made for south american samples although DWM did offer them to south American govts for a short time!
It was in Wall Street and Gordon Gekko shows off his "45 Luger", claiming there were only six made.
I saw a picture of it on Tales of the Gun Luger. They also showed the guy that made your gun
Excellent coverage - it would be interesting to compare size of .45 Luger with 1911 (and the two magazines)
I have pictures of the one in the Norton Gallery I took while it was still in the case. Not very clear but as good as I could get. The only marks on the gun visible from the left side are nitro proof on the receiver and some type of stamp under the barrel. No serial number or makers stamp are visible. There are no markings to denote “safe”. It also has very little wear showing.
In 1975 that .45acp luger was in edwardsville illinois.
Tom, I think I saw "the million dollar Luger" in the back of one of your GUN safes? I think you bought it several years ago and forgotten it. Welcome to the retirement life. 😎😎
I got to admit that Im not a Fan of Lugers, don't dislike them either. That 45cal weapon looks like a keeper to me. Bigger abd more powerful than the 9mm and has the look and feel of a 'war gun' in addition to providing protection against banditos and carnivorous cryptids!
Awesome presentation.
Awesome. Thx for sharing.
Great video!
Thank you
There is definitely one in the Norton collection here in Shreveport, Louisiana.
Or so they say... no proof. if they had one they would be displaying it/bragging.
@@atomicwedgie8176 No. the place is primarily an art gallery displaying Norton’s art. The guns are a small part of the museum. Frederick B. Remington original bronze, for example. The curator likely is not aware of the significance of the piece. A treasure.
Get hold of the Collector Grade Publications three volume book "Pistole Parabellum History of the "Luger System" " by Joachim Gortz and Geoffrey L. Sturgess. In volume 1 there is a full chapter (Chapter 18) on "The US .45 M1907 Parabellum".
There were no Lugers in 9mm in 1900 as Mr.Luger didn't develop the 9x19mm until 1902.
One of those ended in Argentina, in the hands of one of A.H. ex bodyduards. He gave as a present to a friend. Later that gun was stolen, who knows, maybe is now in USA where the market is bigger
I'd break my piggy bank for that.
I also like scotch. Yay a friend
The US was never going to adopt a Luger. It was all a show. Look at the history before those trials and see what was adopted in the past and what countries manufactured those arms.
Thanks for the excellent information
You: a normal Luger P08 in 7,65. No. 2: the P08 your woman told you not to worry about.
Another interesting video. Thanks.
Great content
What is it it with the love of german equipment? I lo ve the sexyness of the old german kit!
The Army went with the 1911 .45 ACP because the Philippino's were amped up on betel nut and would keep advancing even after being struck by multiple. 38 caliber rounds. The. 38 revolver was the standard issue for both the army and multiple police forces as well.
The ejected cases are pretty well distorted when they are, barely, extracted.
#2 its under my pillow
.29 in do not tell me it is a John Martz Luger!
Luger made ten became over for the military test watch tail of the gun
There were a lot more than two test units made, one military establishment, Aberdeen Proving ground in MD historically held two of the originals on its own. No one knows how many were made but it makes sense that they would have produced at least 10 to 20 for their own testing and to potentially offer to other countries that liked 45 calibre handguns like Britain and all the armies of its Empire. No gun manufacturer on Earth would go the massive expense of all that tooling just to make two units, they would literally have cost the historical equivalent of a quarter of a million bucks each to build at that rate! Don't be fooled by the hype, think of the practical manufacturing economics involved. My bet is that most simply "disappeared" into the private collections of a few of the high ranking Military brass involved in the testing procedure and cannot therefore ever come to light because their descendants are still holding stolen Government property which they know would be seized. How am I doing so far?
You misspelled "caliber" in the thumbnail.
Fixed it, haha. Thank you.
Long, boring story, but the actual #2 is located in the cathedral of St. Mary of Zion, in Ethiopia, and is contained inside the Ark of the Convenant.
少なくとも日本国内には存在しないだろう。
かつてこの世に存在していた物は必ず今も存在している。
惜しみない拍手と心からの応援をトムに。
How much is a Staness 1907 .45 test Luger made by Lugerman 1 of11 ever made or will,ever be made ??
E
I also own one of the 11 stainless 1907 Lugers made by Lugerman
I heard . . . 😅
A few days ago, i , german, met a Mr. Luger, but he is not intressted in firearms, and doesn' t know, if he is related to pistol inventory.
Lol and nowadays the US uses SIG SAUER M17 pistols. SIG SAUER IS GERMAN!. And HK416 is GERMAN to.
Bots in the comments
Ah yes the love bots of UA-cam. ❤❤
Colts Dragoon ,straight up club 😅 maddie /lucky Ned pepper/Rooster 🐈 General Lee 😺
🍸🍸🍸🍸⚓️
So I shared this video on my FB page and I got spanked HARD because of it. DONT POST THIS TO YOUR FB PAGE!
*Calibre*. Alternatively "caliber" (still incorrect spelling though), but never "calibur".
its not a gun.. It is a pistol, or firearm, or weapon.
First
Congratulations on your amazing feat of skill and intelligence. Your prize will arrive on the second Tuesday of next week. Tell the other big winner that was first.
so you can not go to the gallery and look for yourself ..w.t.f.
first
Bs