As much as I meme on Project Ember, this is something I feel is done really well. Since Generals cap out at 23 speed, most enemies cannot double them when they do cap out (which Wendy and Bors will do lol). Now, they only have 2 ways of breaking past that speed barrier: one is Mulagir, which is a 2-3r weapon which means it cannot fight at melee range, and a certain 1-3r weapon that provides +3 to speed, to 26. This still leaves them vulnerable to endgame falcon knights and swordmasters who have a lot of armorslaying weaponry to discourage bulwarking through them. Pretty solid stuff
Neat, I do need to get around to Project Ember sometime. Thanks for providing some extra info, based on what you said, it does indeed sound pretty cool!
Spd is honestly a little complicated, having good speed can often be a good boon to make a unit better however it often requires that unit to also have the potential to make use of it, afterall there are many units with good speed who lack the strenght to actually use it, there are also units like panette crit builds and armors who don't care about speed as much, so in a sense speed on a unit is always good but a unit who only has speed and nothing else can be innafective Also con complicates things furthe4, early game chloe for instance ends up being very slow wielding anything other then a slim lance
Yes, I would agree with everything that you've said, Spd is usually a benefit, there's only a couple odd cases I can think of where it would be a potential detriment to have. Also agreed on Con - something that I personally think of when using units is the concept of 'Spd rating' which is the sum of the unit's Spd and their Con, so holding onto sufficiently strong, heavy weapons can make a 30 Spd and a 20 Spd unit have functionally same Attack Speed. So I may eventually make a video on that, maybe
FE3 B1 is such an interesting case study. Any character that manages to get a 3 in AS pretty much doubles 90% of all enemies of the game. This is specially interesting since dragons always have 0 AS and they're the "strongest" enemy types on the game. This basically forces an scenario where the enemy guarantees to take a chunk of your hp while it'll always get obliterated in return. This is specially concerning at B2 endgame. For this, hp and str are much better stats in the game and reaching 41 hp and 20 str is better than stacking speed in a no shard run.
Yeah, for the most part other than like the promoted enemies, I remember the FE3 enemies being wildly slow. Dragons are interesting as well since with the low HP values and the fact that they do penetrating damage, surviving two of them if they hit isn't really happening easily at all. I didn't save any uses of Again for B2 endgame, so those reinforcements just murked all of Julian, Maria and Elice lmfao Makes sense though on HP and Str being more valuable as stats overall. Out of interest, what's the importance of 41 HP and 20 Str as specific benchmarks?
Speed attack and def are mostly my trio but I'd go atk/magic speed then def if I had to choose If I can get a one shot I don't need speed and can run through the enemies and whittle them down before they can counter Speed a good defense in older games but I'd say useful for later ones with more skills around to prevent doubles. Though the units I have with high speed tend to not be able to finish off the foe alone. Def for general tanky units. Better for exp gains for weaker units.
Yeah, definitely the triad of highly coveted stats generally is your primary attacking stat, Spd and Def. I'd also go for those two over true defensive stats if I had to only pick two though, it's true
Speed is interesting to me in 3H since every other stats can be good enough from class bases/modifiers alone. Speed from classes will let you avoid being doubled to some degree but it's gonna be really hard to double yourself if your growths aren't helping out. Therefore speed only becomes a factor for a handful of units. You said it in the video but it's true that every stat is a threshold to some degree. Speed is usually the most make or break of the bunch. At least personally it's the one I keep track most of. Good analysis as always.
Makes sense, and I agree on all of it. The existence of class bases in 3H as in Echoes does mean that every meaningful stat threshold can be reached easily with some pre-planning in mind, as you've said I definitely agree that Spd is often the most make or break, since as a bulk threshold or an offensive threshold, I'd say it's more common to be off something (whether it be killing or dying to a unit) by one point of Spd rather than one point of Atk or a bulk stat. Bulk thresholds are interesting to me as well, but I think that for the way that most people play the games, it's easier to think about just Spd, and it requires fewer calculations, especially when things like weapon triangle damage comes into it And thanks! I'm glad that you think so, and am grateful for your continued interest :>
doubling is just inherently broken. its impossible to balance a game where +1 speed is the difference between doing twice as much damage. I like Berwick Saga's combat. Player attacks, enemy counterattacks, if player outspeeds player attacks again. As soon as someone takes damage there are no more attacks.
Yeah, doubling is an extremely strong mechanic for sure, big both offensively and defensively Berwick's combat does sound interesting, and the Kaga games I do definitely have to give a shot once I've finished playing through all of the mainline FE games. Just Thracia, Rev, FE1 and the two DSFE games to go!
At risk of nitpicking or missing the point, perhaps a better case study for "game without Speed" would be either removing the doubling mechanic or removing the Speed stat entirely, which could be a somewhat interesting "what if". Most strategy games don't have this feature in general so it's interesting to think of the effect it has on FE's gameplay.
Mmm that's fair, I get what you mean. I was already doing the 0 Spd FE8 run so it just happened to fit well into this, and I'm not planning on doing another run of the game where everyone simply smacks each other once and that's all. I don't think it would be that interesting to play or to watch, part of why a lack of Spd is interesting to me is because of both the reduced offensive and defensive capabilities you have, which only really happens for the latter if you get doubled
@@CrashGordon94 glad that my reasoning made sense! And yeah, you're welcome, for now I'm trying to respond to most of my comments that come through within the first week of a video. Maybe eventually we'll hit some critical mass where that isn't feasible, but for now, that's the idea :)
It's always a pleasure to hear you talking. Mind if I ask something? You pointed out the value or doubling more than anything. What would be the value of spd after you double everything?
Basically +2 avoid each for the most part, but also sometimes you can double everything with common weapons, but not the heaviest ones, so speed can also help mitigate Con later on.
Forgetting that Spd affects evasion has gotta be the FE equivalent of Smash players forgetting that Fox's Shine can reflect projectiles. Memes aside, by the time you hit that level of Spd, your evasion is actually quite noteworthy, and because hit rates are subtractive, each point becomes more effective for improving survivability than the last. Improving survivability via Def or Res is usually preferred because those are 100% reliable ways to reduce damage taken, but evasion will save you turns in the long run by not having to heal as often.
So, my bad wording on the question led to error. I know spd gives avoid. What I meant to ask was something like the preference between a unit that is most likely to double everything or a unit that could get to met the benchmark and have better performance. Both later mentioned points are valuable towards the faster unit.
Uhhhhhhhh so I'll respond to this taking into account what you said in your later response, so as to avoid just rehashing what people have already said about Spd contributing to Avo By that, do you mean who would be the best unit to give a Spd statbooster to, for instance? If that's what you mean, the best time to use it is to get someone to a key threshold so they can double or ORKO something they couldn't before
@@akirasou Not really. Mainly it was a thing of using an overkill spd unit or use a unit that should double on average or close to it. Essentially, merc vs myrm without their future utility.
Gonna be truth to be honest here, but I tried to theorize, which is the more useful of two units: one unit with maxed all stats EXCEPT for speed, which is 0, while another unit has maximum possible speed but mostly mediocre on all other stats (Strength/Magic, Skill, Luck, Defense, Resistance, Max HP). Turns out, the unit with high speed but low everything else might feel unreliable. They might tend to double everything and dodge attacks a lot, but hardly do any damage to medium-defense units, and can be surprisingly get two-shotted by some strong enemies if the enemies hit. The 0 speed all other stats max unit on the other hand, while does not simply fare better, at least can hit pretty hard and it takes dedicated high-offense enemies to break through their defenses and kill them. Sometimes, they one-shot otherwise weak enemies that the previous unit above couldn't do. In overall, while I still can relate with how speed is the most important stat and almost all units who have low speed are inevitably seen as bad and inefficient to "tier lists" or "elitist" players, that doesn't mean all units with high speed are guaranteed to be high or top tier. You need at least a little bit of strength and magic so that you won't hit enemies for "NO DAMAGE!" and/or not get one-shotted by a freaking Killer weapon crit due to low HP and defenses. Honestly on the other hand, it would be weird yet interesting to see possible ideas for romhacks that put a twist on the "doubling" mechanic, such as the significantly lower speed unit actually getting to double attack instead of the higher one instead (just like Trick Room from Pokemon).
To be honest, I don't really have anything to say in response to the bulk of this comment because I explicitly wasn't saying that Spd alone makes a unit good, more that Spd is a good stat to have. I do think that the twist on doubling thing could be cool though
I feel like Strength and speed are tied you can Double and then What even with the best weapons Strength you can just kill enemies even without being able to double it just makes things longer on enemy phase if you dont kill
Yeah, Atk and Spd I consider to be equally important. It depends as well on what specific context of Str and Spd we mean - in the absolutely Speedless context that I was playing in, given that Morva had true damage on his side and thus would be able to one-round anyone who went up solo against him in traditional combat, additional sources of true damage in the game would have been really, really painful to go up against
Speed is so good that we have the answer to old debates such as Edelgard vs Rhea, the former can stack speed due to being playable therefore she did nothing wrong and Rhea bad (Seriously why the fuck is Rhea so slow in the Cath+Ashe paralogue you have 1000+ years of combat and defeated Nemesis you idiotic green NPC) Funny meme rant aside... I struggle to find a game where speed is unimportant unless I dig for some very, very niche examples Edit: speed is absolutely useless in Triangle Strategy I guess, your own avoid is such a non factor
While not unimportant, Genealogy is probably the game where speed is the general weakest it has been. Not only does it only have a 1 speed threshold to double, but you also need pursuit, so a unit without pursuit or with such a heavy weapon that doubling is off the table won’t really enjoy the benefits of higher speed, and speed thresholds aren’t that hard to hit (I believe the fastest non recruited unit before Chapter 4 has 6 AS, and after chapter 4 there’s not really many fast units to worry about until you get out of Thracia). Then again, you can avoid stack speed/luck/authority/charm to the point where some units can be actual dodge tanks (not 50-60% avoid, closer to 90-100%!).
Lmfaoooooooooooo if that's an argument that anyone's ever genuinely made in the Edelgard/Rhea debate, that's hilarioussssssss. You're right though that she is really slow, and just underwhelming as a green unit ally... So it's one of those things where it depends on whether we're talking about how important having any/a set amount of Spd at all is, or how important gaining Spd levels is. The case studies I spoke about had no Spd base or growth at all, so the number of Spd possessed was 0, both because the 0 Spd FE8 run I was already doing and because I wanted to show how much lacking Spd entirely would affect bulk Whereas if it were about the importance of gaining Spd levels... FE7 I consider to be a game where gaining Spd levels isn't very important because of how low the doubling threshold of 12-14 on most enemies is. So units who join with more Spd than that, it doesn't matter for the most part, if that makes sense? But that doesn't make it itself unimportant And yeah, Avo in Tristrat just isn't something to rely on, at all lol
@@akirasou Nah I made that shit up And for the record, I meant games in general. Speed is a factor in almost every game I played, no matter if it's a stat or an actual movement/attack speed, the faster option is almost always the better one.
You can also avoid stack to the point where enemies won't attack you, or where it affects the expected damage number such that they would aim for a unit with more Def
@@akirasou Yeah, I remember a lot of people commenting how the Avoid Stacking in Lunatic (with for example Yunaka, which is one of the easiest units to stack avoid in the early game) ends up making the enemy change targets.
@@alexisdipoalo9443 lol well I guess that part of this video was me recounting my experiences of a Fire Emblem challenge run, so that might be it? This week's upcoming video might also be a recount of an FE challenge run, if that kinda thing is of interest to you
I believe that you're actually the second person who's asked me this, so maybe there is something in the idea. Do you think that it would be interesting to watch?
@@hayden3141 the honesty is appreciated! Hmmmm... I'm already doing a playthrough of FE6 on the channel currently, and then FE9 I refuse to play again unless forced to and FE10 I already have a 0 stat run I want to stream of it at some point. So it may not happen for a while...
because in truth, while speed is a good stat, it's overrated as fuck and not AT ALL necessary. What matters far more than one individual stat is being OVERALL statistically more powerful than the enemy unit you're in combat with, and there are many, MANY avenues to accomplish this, with speed being only one minor part of the bigger picture. To piggyback off of your Marisa example, you can have all the speed in the world, but if you're doubling for 4 damage, you'll still get your ass kicked by a dude with a swordreaver who can only hit one time for 12. I fundamentally disagree with the idea of any one stat being "the most important" because this idea completely falls apart when you push the extremes of any given stat. Having maximum defense or res can trivialize entire chapters of the game, in the same way having maximum speed can, but when it comes down to it, you ALWAYS need other stats, and with that in mind, can you really call it the most important stat when it relies on OTHER STATS to function? Maybe you could, but I would not. It's also important to keep in mind the game design of FE. The only point of speed that matters is the one that puts you into doubling threshold in most cases. The only point of strength that matters are the ones that hit certain benchmarks of being able to cleanly kill an enemy in one turn. The only points of defense that matter are the ones that allow you to take an extra hit where you wouldn't otherwise be able to. Same thing for res, HP, etc. etc. Talking about it in broad terms undermines that all these games are different and have their own benchmarks, enemy design, and strategies of approach. There is no best stat, just an arms race to acquire more overall stats than the enemies have, and that's why Jagen characters, promoting at 10, and WEAPONS are so powerful in the context of the these games. They are immediate, effective, and massive in the statistical advantages they provide in a game about having more statistical advantages then the obstacles in your way. Silver Lance is the best stat in fire emblem.
6:30 I'll highlight that enemies in celica's route have such insanely bimodal speed tiers that there is no difference between 7 speed and 18 speed in dead man's mire, and no difference between 6 and 12 speed in grieth's citadel. Basically SOV enemies were designed to be doubled by boosted player units of their class and that's about it. 0% growths leon is basically the same as growths leon b/c his speed growth is actually irrelevant. Most games don't have this strong bifurcation though.
As much as I meme on Project Ember, this is something I feel is done really well. Since Generals cap out at 23 speed, most enemies cannot double them when they do cap out (which Wendy and Bors will do lol). Now, they only have 2 ways of breaking past that speed barrier: one is Mulagir, which is a 2-3r weapon which means it cannot fight at melee range, and a certain 1-3r weapon that provides +3 to speed, to 26. This still leaves them vulnerable to endgame falcon knights and swordmasters who have a lot of armorslaying weaponry to discourage bulwarking through them. Pretty solid stuff
Neat, I do need to get around to Project Ember sometime. Thanks for providing some extra info, based on what you said, it does indeed sound pretty cool!
The Gaiden spd ring is a good item because it lets me double everything with Ragnarok despite it weighing 20
And it's such a real one for that
Spd is honestly a little complicated, having good speed can often be a good boon to make a unit better however it often requires that unit to also have the potential to make use of it, afterall there are many units with good speed who lack the strenght to actually use it, there are also units like panette crit builds and armors who don't care about speed as much, so in a sense speed on a unit is always good but a unit who only has speed and nothing else can be innafective
Also con complicates things furthe4, early game chloe for instance ends up being very slow wielding anything other then a slim lance
Yes, I would agree with everything that you've said, Spd is usually a benefit, there's only a couple odd cases I can think of where it would be a potential detriment to have. Also agreed on Con - something that I personally think of when using units is the concept of 'Spd rating' which is the sum of the unit's Spd and their Con, so holding onto sufficiently strong, heavy weapons can make a 30 Spd and a 20 Spd unit have functionally same Attack Speed. So I may eventually make a video on that, maybe
FE3 B1 is such an interesting case study. Any character that manages to get a 3 in AS pretty much doubles 90% of all enemies of the game.
This is specially interesting since dragons always have 0 AS and they're the "strongest" enemy types on the game. This basically forces an scenario where the enemy guarantees to take a chunk of your hp while it'll always get obliterated in return. This is specially concerning at B2 endgame.
For this, hp and str are much better stats in the game and reaching 41 hp and 20 str is better than stacking speed in a no shard run.
Yeah, for the most part other than like the promoted enemies, I remember the FE3 enemies being wildly slow. Dragons are interesting as well since with the low HP values and the fact that they do penetrating damage, surviving two of them if they hit isn't really happening easily at all. I didn't save any uses of Again for B2 endgame, so those reinforcements just murked all of Julian, Maria and Elice lmfao
Makes sense though on HP and Str being more valuable as stats overall. Out of interest, what's the importance of 41 HP and 20 Str as specific benchmarks?
Speed attack and def are mostly my trio but I'd go atk/magic speed then def if I had to choose
If I can get a one shot I don't need speed and can run through the enemies and whittle them down before they can counter
Speed a good defense in older games but I'd say useful for later ones with more skills around to prevent doubles. Though the units I have with high speed tend to not be able to finish off the foe alone.
Def for general tanky units. Better for exp gains for weaker units.
Yeah, definitely the triad of highly coveted stats generally is your primary attacking stat, Spd and Def. I'd also go for those two over true defensive stats if I had to only pick two though, it's true
Speed is interesting to me in 3H since every other stats can be good enough from class bases/modifiers alone. Speed from classes will let you avoid being doubled to some degree but it's gonna be really hard to double yourself if your growths aren't helping out. Therefore speed only becomes a factor for a handful of units.
You said it in the video but it's true that every stat is a threshold to some degree. Speed is usually the most make or break of the bunch. At least personally it's the one I keep track most of.
Good analysis as always.
Makes sense, and I agree on all of it. The existence of class bases in 3H as in Echoes does mean that every meaningful stat threshold can be reached easily with some pre-planning in mind, as you've said
I definitely agree that Spd is often the most make or break, since as a bulk threshold or an offensive threshold, I'd say it's more common to be off something (whether it be killing or dying to a unit) by one point of Spd rather than one point of Atk or a bulk stat. Bulk thresholds are interesting to me as well, but I think that for the way that most people play the games, it's easier to think about just Spd, and it requires fewer calculations, especially when things like weapon triangle damage comes into it
And thanks! I'm glad that you think so, and am grateful for your continued interest :>
doubling is just inherently broken. its impossible to balance a game where +1 speed is the difference between doing twice as much damage.
I like Berwick Saga's combat. Player attacks, enemy counterattacks, if player outspeeds player attacks again. As soon as someone takes damage there are no more attacks.
Yeah, doubling is an extremely strong mechanic for sure, big both offensively and defensively
Berwick's combat does sound interesting, and the Kaga games I do definitely have to give a shot once I've finished playing through all of the mainline FE games. Just Thracia, Rev, FE1 and the two DSFE games to go!
I think I understand know. Sneaky how you try to convince us speed is good when obviously luck is the best stat
My channel mod would have to agree with you lol
Whoever made the video at 5:35 must be really cool and sexy
Jokes aside, nice video. Enjoyed :)
Yes they must be really cool and sexy for sure, for sure
Thanks for watching, and I'm glad to hear that you enjoyed it :>
i like when go zoom 👍
NYOOOOMMMMM
At risk of nitpicking or missing the point, perhaps a better case study for "game without Speed" would be either removing the doubling mechanic or removing the Speed stat entirely, which could be a somewhat interesting "what if". Most strategy games don't have this feature in general so it's interesting to think of the effect it has on FE's gameplay.
Mmm that's fair, I get what you mean. I was already doing the 0 Spd FE8 run so it just happened to fit well into this, and I'm not planning on doing another run of the game where everyone simply smacks each other once and that's all. I don't think it would be that interesting to play or to watch, part of why a lack of Spd is interesting to me is because of both the reduced offensive and defensive capabilities you have, which only really happens for the latter if you get doubled
@@akirasou Definitely a fair point on how interesting (or not) it would be. And thank you for responding too.
@@CrashGordon94 glad that my reasoning made sense! And yeah, you're welcome, for now I'm trying to respond to most of my comments that come through within the first week of a video. Maybe eventually we'll hit some critical mass where that isn't feasible, but for now, that's the idea :)
It's always a pleasure to hear you talking.
Mind if I ask something?
You pointed out the value or doubling more than anything. What would be the value of spd after you double everything?
Basically +2 avoid each for the most part, but also sometimes you can double everything with common weapons, but not the heaviest ones, so speed can also help mitigate Con later on.
Forgetting that Spd affects evasion has gotta be the FE equivalent of Smash players forgetting that Fox's Shine can reflect projectiles.
Memes aside, by the time you hit that level of Spd, your evasion is actually quite noteworthy, and because hit rates are subtractive, each point becomes more effective for improving survivability than the last. Improving survivability via Def or Res is usually preferred because those are 100% reliable ways to reduce damage taken, but evasion will save you turns in the long run by not having to heal as often.
So, my bad wording on the question led to error. I know spd gives avoid.
What I meant to ask was something like the preference between a unit that is most likely to double everything or a unit that could get to met the benchmark and have better performance.
Both later mentioned points are valuable towards the faster unit.
Uhhhhhhhh so I'll respond to this taking into account what you said in your later response, so as to avoid just rehashing what people have already said about Spd contributing to Avo
By that, do you mean who would be the best unit to give a Spd statbooster to, for instance? If that's what you mean, the best time to use it is to get someone to a key threshold so they can double or ORKO something they couldn't before
@@akirasou
Not really. Mainly it was a thing of using an overkill spd unit or use a unit that should double on average or close to it.
Essentially, merc vs myrm without their future utility.
Good vid, thanks for the rec!
Glad you enjoyed it, and of course! It's a ton of fun and happened to fit the brief of the video I was working on really well, so I had to :>
Gonna be truth to be honest here, but I tried to theorize, which is the more useful of two units: one unit with maxed all stats EXCEPT for speed, which is 0, while another unit has maximum possible speed but mostly mediocre on all other stats (Strength/Magic, Skill, Luck, Defense, Resistance, Max HP).
Turns out, the unit with high speed but low everything else might feel unreliable. They might tend to double everything and dodge attacks a lot, but hardly do any damage to medium-defense units, and can be surprisingly get two-shotted by some strong enemies if the enemies hit.
The 0 speed all other stats max unit on the other hand, while does not simply fare better, at least can hit pretty hard and it takes dedicated high-offense enemies to break through their defenses and kill them. Sometimes, they one-shot otherwise weak enemies that the previous unit above couldn't do.
In overall, while I still can relate with how speed is the most important stat and almost all units who have low speed are inevitably seen as bad and inefficient to "tier lists" or "elitist" players, that doesn't mean all units with high speed are guaranteed to be high or top tier. You need at least a little bit of strength and magic so that you won't hit enemies for "NO DAMAGE!" and/or not get one-shotted by a freaking Killer weapon crit due to low HP and defenses.
Honestly on the other hand, it would be weird yet interesting to see possible ideas for romhacks that put a twist on the "doubling" mechanic, such as the significantly lower speed unit actually getting to double attack instead of the higher one instead (just like Trick Room from Pokemon).
To be honest, I don't really have anything to say in response to the bulk of this comment because I explicitly wasn't saying that Spd alone makes a unit good, more that Spd is a good stat to have. I do think that the twist on doubling thing could be cool though
Youre welcome for the Enstars image, Akira~
T h a n k y o u for it, it really was a fitting image lol
I feel like Strength and speed are tied you can Double and then What even with the best weapons Strength you can just kill enemies even without being able to double it just makes things longer on enemy phase if you dont kill
Yeah, Atk and Spd I consider to be equally important. It depends as well on what specific context of Str and Spd we mean - in the absolutely Speedless context that I was playing in, given that Morva had true damage on his side and thus would be able to one-round anyone who went up solo against him in traditional combat, additional sources of true damage in the game would have been really, really painful to go up against
Speed is so good that we have the answer to old debates such as Edelgard vs Rhea, the former can stack speed due to being playable therefore she did nothing wrong and Rhea bad
(Seriously why the fuck is Rhea so slow in the Cath+Ashe paralogue you have 1000+ years of combat and defeated Nemesis you idiotic green NPC)
Funny meme rant aside... I struggle to find a game where speed is unimportant unless I dig for some very, very niche examples
Edit: speed is absolutely useless in Triangle Strategy I guess, your own avoid is such a non factor
While not unimportant, Genealogy is probably the game where speed is the general weakest it has been. Not only does it only have a 1 speed threshold to double, but you also need pursuit, so a unit without pursuit or with such a heavy weapon that doubling is off the table won’t really enjoy the benefits of higher speed, and speed thresholds aren’t that hard to hit (I believe the fastest non recruited unit before Chapter 4 has 6 AS, and after chapter 4 there’s not really many fast units to worry about until you get out of Thracia). Then again, you can avoid stack speed/luck/authority/charm to the point where some units can be actual dodge tanks (not 50-60% avoid, closer to 90-100%!).
Lmfaoooooooooooo if that's an argument that anyone's ever genuinely made in the Edelgard/Rhea debate, that's hilarioussssssss. You're right though that she is really slow, and just underwhelming as a green unit ally...
So it's one of those things where it depends on whether we're talking about how important having any/a set amount of Spd at all is, or how important gaining Spd levels is. The case studies I spoke about had no Spd base or growth at all, so the number of Spd possessed was 0, both because the 0 Spd FE8 run I was already doing and because I wanted to show how much lacking Spd entirely would affect bulk
Whereas if it were about the importance of gaining Spd levels... FE7 I consider to be a game where gaining Spd levels isn't very important because of how low the doubling threshold of 12-14 on most enemies is. So units who join with more Spd than that, it doesn't matter for the most part, if that makes sense? But that doesn't make it itself unimportant
And yeah, Avo in Tristrat just isn't something to rely on, at all lol
@@akirasou
Nah I made that shit up
And for the record, I meant games in general. Speed is a factor in almost every game I played, no matter if it's a stat or an actual movement/attack speed, the faster option is almost always the better one.
Okay but try beating FE8 with 0 HP
Thanks for the UA-cam algorithm boosting comment, I guess?
its actually defense. thats why enemies just ignore you in engage.
You can also avoid stack to the point where enemies won't attack you, or where it affects the expected damage number such that they would aim for a unit with more Def
@@akirasou Yeah, I remember a lot of people commenting how the Avoid Stacking in Lunatic (with for example Yunaka, which is one of the easiest units to stack avoid in the early game) ends up making the enemy change targets.
why do you keep showing up as i look for everything but what i'm looking for lol
i am now sold on trying double or nothing, but mostly because i perfer more challenging rom hacks. and it doesn't sound to hard for my tease
I have no idea lol, what were you looking for this time? And woooooooooo to trying Doubled or Nothing!
@@akirasou i'm not trying it. but fire emblem challege runs lol
@@alexisdipoalo9443 lol well I guess that part of this video was me recounting my experiences of a Fire Emblem challenge run, so that might be it? This week's upcoming video might also be a recount of an FE challenge run, if that kinda thing is of interest to you
@@akirasou I'll see if I can find it than thanks. ( At work so rip seeing this late )
speed is only good when speed creep isn't crazy and defs is better
Spd does definitely become less important in situations where the enemies have wildly inflated Spd, I can def agree with that much
I know someone did a 0 str run but would you ever play a 0 def and res playthough
I believe that you're actually the second person who's asked me this, so maybe there is something in the idea. Do you think that it would be interesting to watch?
@akirasou truthfully, I don't think it would be fun to watch you play on fe8, but i could see it being fun to watch on fe6 or one of the tellius games
@@hayden3141 the honesty is appreciated! Hmmmm... I'm already doing a playthrough of FE6 on the channel currently, and then FE9 I refuse to play again unless forced to and FE10 I already have a 0 stat run I want to stream of it at some point. So it may not happen for a while...
If speed is good why is Marisa considered bad?
because in truth, while speed is a good stat, it's overrated as fuck and not AT ALL necessary. What matters far more than one individual stat is being OVERALL statistically more powerful than the enemy unit you're in combat with, and there are many, MANY avenues to accomplish this, with speed being only one minor part of the bigger picture.
To piggyback off of your Marisa example, you can have all the speed in the world, but if you're doubling for 4 damage, you'll still get your ass kicked by a dude with a swordreaver who can only hit one time for 12. I fundamentally disagree with the idea of any one stat being "the most important" because this idea completely falls apart when you push the extremes of any given stat. Having maximum defense or res can trivialize entire chapters of the game, in the same way having maximum speed can, but when it comes down to it, you ALWAYS need other stats, and with that in mind, can you really call it the most important stat when it relies on OTHER STATS to function? Maybe you could, but I would not.
It's also important to keep in mind the game design of FE. The only point of speed that matters is the one that puts you into doubling threshold in most cases. The only point of strength that matters are the ones that hit certain benchmarks of being able to cleanly kill an enemy in one turn. The only points of defense that matter are the ones that allow you to take an extra hit where you wouldn't otherwise be able to. Same thing for res, HP, etc. etc.
Talking about it in broad terms undermines that all these games are different and have their own benchmarks, enemy design, and strategies of approach. There is no best stat, just an arms race to acquire more overall stats than the enemies have, and that's why Jagen characters, promoting at 10, and WEAPONS are so powerful in the context of the these games. They are immediate, effective, and massive in the statistical advantages they provide in a game about having more statistical advantages then the obstacles in your way.
Silver Lance is the best stat in fire emblem.
Basically, Spd is good, but that doesn't mean that only having Spd makes you good
Cus she's a woman in gba FE
6:30 I'll highlight that enemies in celica's route have such insanely bimodal speed tiers that there is no difference between 7 speed and 18 speed in dead man's mire, and no difference between 6 and 12 speed in grieth's citadel. Basically SOV enemies were designed to be doubled by boosted player units of their class and that's about it.
0% growths leon is basically the same as growths leon b/c his speed growth is actually irrelevant. Most games don't have this strong bifurcation though.