Hi everyone!! Thanks so much for all the support on this video, fr it means a ton :) I have a lot more videos planned, so don't worry! Though it may take a little bit due to school starting up soon, I hope you all understand. The next video planned will be shorter, but I have another bigger video in the works soon! For now, again, thank you so much for all the support and be sure to look out for more! - Meatball
Oh shit I didn’t realize this is your first video (at least on this channel) this is actually super dope! The level of editing and pasing is great and your voice does carry a very good rhythm that keeps the video hooked and interesting! My only critique to be honest it’s currently that your sona is a bit static movement wise, and it can feel a bit off at times due because of that , but the rhythm of the video and it’s quick pase makes this a bit more of a minor suggestion rather than a make or break thing as the Core Video is absolutely great, and has a nice feel to it.
love your videos, miss! (i’m assuming, since your avatar is feminine, apologies if this is incorrect) can’t wait to see more, maybe you should cover celeste too!
As someone who really likes Super Meat Boy Forever, I’m really glad you actually go beyond “it’s an autorunner so it’s automatically bad” and have an actual negative review about the game itself. Even if I disagree with a few opinions you have here, I’m just really happy that you’re reviewing what the game is rather than what it isn’t. I feel like a lot of people have done that with this game. Great video.
I also wanted to mention that I agree with some stuff you say too! I personally think that all making the game seeded and procedurally generated did was pointlessly delay the game for like 2 years, and the level structure should’ve been more like the first.
But like… the fact it is an auto runner is a bloody death nail for this game. As the first game was so precise and masterful in its control scheme. To make it an autorunner is like a sin. And I did actually play the game so I can make this point in all legitimacy.
@@AnimatedTerror this doesn’t make sense. The rayman origins/legends musical levels show that you can have a rock-hard and precise level where you don’t actually control the speed of your character (these aren’t TECHNICALLY autorunners, but are designed so they can only be completed if you sprint full-speed without stopping)
It's ironic that Super Meat Boy Forever started as a concept for a mobile game, thus why its an endless runner, and yet mobile is one of the few platforms which it never came to. Similarly, for a game with "Forever" in its title, you'd think there would be an endless mode - Especially considering all the effort they went through to make the regular levels procedurely-generated, how do you miss such an easy opportunity for giving your game more content?
I bought the game the day it released on the epic games store thinking it was an endless runner. I was shocked when I found out it had no endless mode.
@@TheWillrocks51 i feel like some of its short comings would have been overlooked if it was just a phone game. people expect less. but yeah, with endless in the title, you expect something like canabalt or whatever. and they had so long to think about stuff like that
The soundtrack change with SMB has always been an interesting point of contention. On one hand I don't think the "new" tracks were bad, they're actually pretty cool in their own right, but on the other they certainly lacked that charming Newgrounds, Invader Zim inspired sound you think of when you hear someting is "from Newgrounds" so there's a kind of character that's just outright missing.
It's a real Sonic type senario where, due to situations outside of the creators control, they had to change the music, and while its pretty damn good, it's for the most part a huge downgrade from what it had before.
I The new soundtrack ruined the ports for me. I never beat dark world, but after years passed you remember what games have banging soundtracks and want to revisit and it is unplayable. Very upsetting.
I can second The End is Nigh as the official Meat Boy 2. It's soundtrack is also done by Ridiculon and, despite just being rearrangements of royalty free songs, fits the apocalyptic setting of the game.
The End is Nigh was my first Edmund McMillen game lol, and absolutely loved it, just wanted to play it because the cover art looks super cool and attractive and ended up with a really fun game with memorable moments, like the little soul on a machine which if you reach says "hey, why are you not dead?"
A lot of the music is royalty free by virtue of the fact they are classical/orchestral pieces from centuries past, many of which are beautiful songs in their own right and are interestingly/beautifully arranged by Ridiculon for TEIN.
The music of the End is nigh is absolutely beautiful, i'm so saddened the game is known so little, couldn't find many people talking about the arrangements, and even at one point i swear i found a playlist that accidentally included unused music, but was later fixed, they were like second versions of the worlds after the split, i remember noticing after a couple listens because the Hollows one had extra screams in the background in the drop, it was awesome.
I heard about Forever when it was first announced but comepletely forgot about it after the fact. After watching your video, i wanted to point out a few little things about this (from whats been shown) 1. To me the appeal of super meat boys artstyle is how it felt like a classic newgrounds game, especially in the cutscenes, it had that charm to it with the blurry lines, character rigging, zoom ins, etc, and while the cutscenes in forever look really nice by an animation standpoint, i feel like it completely forgets the what made the og games animations work in the first place, it felt purposeful. 2. I remember Edmund himself stating in an interview with Vinny Vinesauce during his isaac rebirth streams that he saw procedural generation as the future of video games, and while i agree to a certain extent, i feel like their needs to be a limit to it because meat boy is not made for it, the og or forever. Super was about its impecable level design, and you cant have a maticulously crafted level refined to near perfection with procedural generation, mainly because it breaks up the pace, and thats evident in Forever. It wants you to memorize everything and get into a groove but thats impossible if after you finish a level everything you've learned get thrown out the window due to it being different every time, also, since these peices of level are made with pg in mind, they are a lot less focused and lack refinement, like you said, quantity over quality. 3. I feel like this game is a great reminder that a single idea is never enough to carry a full game, they started off thinking "what if we made meat boy an auto runner", the fact that they started off with the express goal of making it a auto runner instead of thinking if it was the right genre for meatboy was in itself flawed, you cant just take an already existing game and expect it to work with any genre, you have to see what works, and auto runners dont work for presicion, especially when every time you play a level its completely different, meaning that even if you managed to memorize it the first time, good luck with next time, if it would have stayed as a small expirament it would have been fine as a test of how it could be. I definitely feel like labeling it as a sequal made it seem even worse then what it could have been had it stayed a spinoff. Overall great video The editing is good, your commentary was enjoyable and im always a fan of videos that talk about media not many have talked about or payed much attention to and explain why it may have been that way. I look forward to more in the future :)
I don't believe procedural generation is the future. Level design by an artist is what makes games and their moments memorable. There's something that just feels different about meticulous design by an artist.
The procedural generation doesn't work that way, the devs made a lot of setpieces that are scrambled every time you start a new playthrough but stay consistent otherwise. Levels are explictly *not* randomly generated every time you re-start them.
I guess it should be mentioned that the problem with the game started because of team meat’s falling out. To keep it brief, while working on SMB McMillen and Tommy tired themselves out hard, causing animosity brown the two, and so Tommy, as to flip off Edmund even more, went and copyrighted the trademark for anything meatboy related, thus impeding McMillen from working with him ever again, Edmund told Tommy to fuck off and they fell out entirely, the problem is that McMilled was the one doing most of the work, and now Tommy found himself without the animator, level designer and joke creator, so he basically dug his own grave. McMillen would then go make “The end is nigh” which is the true spiritual successor to súper meat boy. As for Danny, I think the video forgot to mention that he also had to deal with most of the brunt of Edmund’s rage after he lost custody of one of his creations, which I will say is a shitty move by Edmund, but I’m glad Danny doesn’t regret working for him.
didnt realize this actually, finally, came out until going to pax prime last year and the spot team meat had been occupying, showing off this game at since 2014, was filled by someone else. I was so excited demoing this and meeting Tommy in 2014 lol and eventually it just became a cute and comfy relic that every year, no matter the pax, you could count on these guys showing off their silly runner game that looked almost finished six years ago.
Indie developers often slap an IP they made onto an otherwise unrelated game in order to catch lightning in a bottle again. This often backfires with the fanbase openly expressing their disappointment in essentially being tricked into playing something they wouldn't be interested in under the pretense of it being something they actually want. Darkest Dungeon is currently going through something similar right now.
I assume you meant the sequel, which if you were I don't really get what you're talking about. DD2 isn't an unrelated game when compared to the original.
I think the best way I’ve heard SMBF described is “it’s like if you took The Binding of Isaac and made it so every run had the exact same floor layout, rooms, items, and bosses.” It fundamentally changes what made the OG Super Meat Boy so good and doesn’t build upon it or even try to distance itself enough mechanically to work well.
With the new soundtrack in the Meatboy re-release, I think these songs are honestly pretty good listens. Like "throw another banjo into the fire" is very good. However, these do not fit meat boy. The metal/rock music did. These aren't bad tracks in the slightest, they just needed to be in a different game or not in a game that already had a specific style in music.
I don't think the alternative ost they introduced is bad by any margin I just think it's just so far removed from what the original was going for it just becomes a little jarring, at least you swap back to the original in the options menu
It's problem (for me anyway) Was that super was all about that hard rock ost, But then the copyright issue comes to play and you get people who understand that for binding of Issac and just... _don't_ for some stupid reason? Like that's a completely different tone
@@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32 Meat Boy was Ridiculon's first project with Edmund, they just didn't get good direction in their first years. Similarly, Rebirth's OST pales in comparison to Repentance's.
This is competently edited and put together. Well done. I can’t say I agree with most of it but it’s always nice to see a new creator. Congrats on putting out a good video
Honestly my least favorite part about super meat boy forever is just the fact that at the end, they had the weird thing with meat boy and bandage girl getting older, they shouldve doubled down on that instead of making dr fetus a cosmic being, and had a grown up nugget fighting a baby/toddler dr fetus. Would've made for a much more cool and fitting boss
this vid wasn't only better than a lot of people's first videos in this style, it's already on par with a lot of later stuff people put out in their time posting videos onto this site. Can't wait to see what you continue to put out going forward ^^ Also, i'll be honest your thumbnail really enticed me to click the video, i thought your OC was some kind of new meat boy lore character and i was like woah. I really like it though!
short recap what i learned from this vid: 1. meatboy going from being good game to rayman knockoff 2. ridiculon isnt bad, but isnt good either, they should have contacted mudeth to make the music 3. when main conceptart creator leaves its always downfall
Tbh i think we gave this game too much backlash for all the wrong reasons. If you really think about it, it’s one of the best games (BY MOBILE STANDARDS) because this was supposed to be a mobile game. It doesn’t live up to its name because of what it was supposed to live up to. Had this of been the first game i think people would have loved it, but since it was a game that people were expecting to be as good as the first, it flopped. This is just my opinion.
You make a really great point though, also I believe that this should’ve been a mobile spinoff for the same exact reasons, though disappointing it became a mediocre sequel
You know what, the concepts of randomly generated levels and auto running could work in meat boy, however rather than make it the main game, reserve the bonus levels to those gimmicks. Why not each world has an endless level where you have to go as far as possible and get the best score. the level is randomly generated using chuncks from the world the level takes place and you gain a point for each chunk completed, so the chapter 1 endless level will use layouts and gimmicks from chapter 1 specifically. Meanwhile the auto running could work but the stages would function as Rayman Legends esc music stages where you need to jump and punch to the beat of several popular songs from various indie games like the Cave Story theme, Geometry Dash's Deadlocked, or Binding of Isasc's Mom Boss Fight theme, that would be epic while also keeping the indie references.
I was just about to leave a comment about The End Is Nigh being the "true" sequel to SMB, glad I waited for the end where you mention it. Good on you, and great video.
Moral of the story: want a proper sequel to Meat Boy? Play the platformer made by the actual creator of Meat Boy :) Even then though The End Is Nigh is just about one of the best precision platformers out there and I swear I'm not biased because it's made by Edmund
I concur, and honestly, I vastly prefer The End is Nigh even to the original Super Meat Boy; it controls far better in my opinion (much less slippery and more precise air-control) with a wider variety of more tightly tuned mechanics and gimmicks; and I also much prefer the semi-metoidvania progression (especially when it comes to secrets, which are generally fantastically implemented) to the glorified menu of a "world map" in SMB.
TEiN is so fucking underrated. It's 10x better than SMB, and Ridiculon made an amazing soundtrack that proves they're not an awful band (I mean, Afterbirth's OST was also decent, but TEiN & Repentance was were they hit the nail right on).
Just as an FYI, the speedrun timer was added in a patch after release at the request of the SMBF speedrun community. We often do set seed runs where we've used a formula to determine the fastest seed, and the timer allows us to get an accurate IGT for the leaderboards. It feels a little harsh to call its inclusion "pathetic".
Nice editing on the vid! Really got some Sequelitis vibes from it, while explaining your thoughts clearly. I don't agree with a lot of your points, but there's one where you're absolutely right (16:20): the player barely has time to react to the stage design, and just ends up dying over and over, until (s)he memorizes each necessary movement, thus taking out the fun of going through the stage yourself. I got through the game, but that's the reason I didn't get as nearly interested or had fun as I did in the first game
Was blown away when I went to your channel to see what other videos I could watch that you've made and found out this is your first vid. Fantastic editing and video as a whole. Subscribed. Great job.
It’s wild hearing your voice without twitter space compression. I honestly wasn’t aware the level design was auto generated. That sounds like hell for this type of game and seeing some of the gameplay from this vid it be like that😭 You did a very great job on editing this video yo. Excellent first venture. I wish you luck making more!
I think this game has the world record for most time, money, and effort put into a game that the least people wanted. EVERYBODY was saying no to the infinite runner thing, even when it was presented as a short term side project.
I came to this video because I just beat the game. It was so much more in depth than I expected for an autorunner! I'm not sure if it lives up to the original, but for what it is, it's genius.
I never took a close look at Super Meat Boy Forever outside of watching a video on the unlockable characters and the bosses. It just felt disappointing and not worthwhile, but I never understood how-so. You capture that same feeling and explain it pretty well here, good stuff! Though I will add that the Super Meat Boy 5th Anniversary Soundtrack is golden, despite its differences from the original.
The original Newgrounds Meatboy didn’t ran so slow. I played it and beat it when it came out. The gameplay shown must have been recorded with some sort of bad setup. The game was great and received some awards in the website.
I'd have imagines if they ever went for another sequel, it would be fully 3D now, maybe akin to the platforming bits in Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, maybe looking more N64-ish though.
I'm playing Super Meat Boy right now since it was on sale on Xbox for like $1.50 (it was the 360 version so I can play with the original music on a modern platform thanks to backwards compatibility). I'm on world 5 right now and have done a decent amount of the dark world levels. I'm really enjoying my time with this game. It is crazy how the very second I saw footage of Forever through this video I could tell it wasn't anywhere near the gameplay of the first. Forever really obviously should have stayed a spinoff. Shovel Knight has a similar situation of after a dry spell a new game not based on the original game's gameplay is being released (Shovel Knight Dig). The difference is that they are stating really clearly that it is a spinoff and the time since the last Shovel Knight expansion has only been three years. Even if Dig is disappointing as a spinoff it has more leeway for doing its own thing and the base game was not long ago. Those few differences make a world of difference when comparing Super Meat Boy to Shovel Knight.
Just sitting down, sipping from a drink, stumbling upon a pretty well-made video and thinking ‘hey, why haven’t I seen this lil meatball before’? only to find out it’s the very first video. Looks like a very promising start, neat!
Holy crap! This is so well edited! I didn't actually know Super Meat Boy even had a sequel till this video, and that Temmie animated on it at all! This is a really good video breaking down so many things that combined to make this game look...kind of soulless. Or at least ideas that somewhere in the creation pipeline got entirely lost. The gritty-ness of the first game made it unique and honestly it scared me to play when I was young, but I can appreciate it for establishing a hardcore game with a hardcore story, characters, and world. If people want a cuter but more hardcore game like I think the sequel was trying to be, I would recommend Cuphead. You'll get much more satisfaction. Feel bad this game didn't turn out too great. Amazing video, and subscribed. Excited to see the stuff you make!
Personally, I think the auto-runner aspect of the game was meant to represent how Meat Boy and Bandage Girl would never stop in their tracks trying to get their baby back
I wanna put in my two cents on more of a feeling type of thing with this game and the original. The original made me scared as a kid, like it genuinely kept me up one night after seeing all the cutscenes, while with this game it feels more suited for a kid to look at nowadays. I just feel like this game captures what businesses are becoming when it comes to games that are scary, they’re pandering more to kids. Like if I wanted to show a kid something that would keep them up at night, I would show them the og, while if I wanted to have them to feel more safe, I would show them this game. I do wanna apologize if any of this sounds stupid or makes no sense, I just wanted to put in my two cents.
It's a shame that Edmund and Tommy had different visions and trajectories at the time, so Edmund left. It is what it is. I wonder if they'll team up again some day. But not everything lasts Forever, and that's okay.
Not done watching the video yet, but this game would've been much better if it was just Super Meat Boy but with the ability to punch stuff. Seriously, just A for jump, RT for dashing, and X to punch stuff in front of you. It would have the same simplicity that SMB is known for while having just enough to make it an actual sequel.
One thing that you didn't mention is how obvious it is that the characters in the game are supposed to be a kind of self insert for edmund, his wife and his child. These characters were very personal for edmund. So its weird having someone else having complete control over them.
As someone who really enjoyed the heck out of the first SMB, and rage like hell just to go again and celebrate like a maniac to finally beat a level, you dont know how sad makes me hear all the things you said, because they are true im very disappointed by how the game came out, not even by the fact that is an autorunner, that doesnt bother me as much as other things where the game fails, is sad that a sequel that i waited so long ended up being a pile of broken dreams the part that most hurted me were the bossfights, i thought that with the punching mechanics they would do a lot more actives, but more charming than the ones for the first games surely my hopes were too high :c i really wish that, if they are planning to do a sequel (which, by the ending scene, i can say that at least the have the idea), return to the old formula, but add features that could make the game more entertaining than the first one
I always wondered what happened with this game. While the new mechanics look cool and tight at parts, having little time to process things and just memorizing button inputs looks less like Meat Boy and more like Bit.Trip.Runner. (At which point, I'd rather recommend to play that instead. Getting in-the-zone is a very zen experience). Regardless, that was a great informative video. Here's hoping for a more proper Meatboy in the future! PD: @MoskiDraws here. Friends linked me to this video and I got humbled to see my artwork featured on it. Thanks a lot!
woah, never seen your content before, but I am officially a fan, great video, keep it up. ive never actually played meat boy but now im downloading it as I write this lmao! good shit.
i think you and the community are underestimating this game i found likeing in the game because you would most likely not be doing ridiculos stuff because the game runs for you and it feels still as smooth as the original
They should make a game where people can make their own Super Meat Boy levels. That way, instead of Team Meat having to make more games, the player base could beat their own meat!
I'm still at the beginning of the video, but I just wanted to say that I don't think the remixed tracks for the original Super Meat Boy you showed in 6:08 sound worse than their original counterparts, they just sound different. What I will admit is that they don't have the same tension as the originals and don't really match the level they're in.
I was thinking the same thing. They're not as intense, but they're still good, just different. That's exactly the word I would use; different. Not better or worse.
That is the perfect example of bad. Who are they making the remixes for? People who liked the original song. If they don't like the remix you'd have been better off making new songs to be fresh and appeal to both new and old. Sure it may not be as good but it isn't a flat out worse version of X to your target audience.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 They needed to make the remixes because Danny Baranowsky (Original composer of SMB) finished his contract. The music is made by Ridiculon, but unfortunately they couldn't get it right. But the The End is Nigh & Repentance soundtracks prove they can make some good OSTs.
Not gonna lie, both soundtracks are kinda good, in their own way. First is more of a raw heavy metal, which I personally love. The second example you gave sounded more like something out of Sally Face (not meant to be an insult. Love the game and soundtrack).
There is another reason you should get the pacifiers because it can unlock a secret boss fight in the final world, except you ARE the boss. This is the one time where I think the auto run mechanic works well since its a race of course.
Hey, there’s another super meat boy sequel. But, instead it’s gonna be another meat boy adventure, this time it’s not meat boy, it’s Dr. Fetus. Yes you heard me, Dr. Fetus. The game will be “Dr. Fetus Mean Machine”
>Shows IMSCARED as an example of a good indie horror game That's all I need to know that this is going to be some high quality content. (Jokes aside, this was a great video! I usually tend to enjoy Auto Runners(mainly for the "how far can you go" element) but this game seems to even mess that up given how there doesn't seem to be any form of Endless Mode)
Hi everyone!! Thanks so much for all the support on this video, fr it means a ton :)
I have a lot more videos planned, so don't worry! Though it may take a little bit due to school starting up soon, I hope you all understand.
The next video planned will be shorter, but I have another bigger video in the works soon! For now, again, thank you so much for all the support and be sure to look out for more!
- Meatball
I look forward to seeing your future productions sir.
nice video
Woo! I can’t wait to see more of your videos :D
Oh shit I didn’t realize this is your first video (at least on this channel) this is actually super dope! The level of editing and pasing is great and your voice does carry a very good rhythm that keeps the video hooked and interesting!
My only critique to be honest it’s currently that your sona is a bit static movement wise, and it can feel a bit off at times due because of that , but the rhythm of the video and it’s quick pase makes this a bit more of a minor suggestion rather than a make or break thing as the Core Video is absolutely great, and has a nice feel to it.
love your videos, miss! (i’m assuming, since your avatar is feminine, apologies if this is incorrect) can’t wait to see more, maybe you should cover celeste too!
As someone who really likes Super Meat Boy Forever, I’m really glad you actually go beyond “it’s an autorunner so it’s automatically bad” and have an actual negative review about the game itself. Even if I disagree with a few opinions you have here, I’m just really happy that you’re reviewing what the game is rather than what it isn’t. I feel like a lot of people have done that with this game. Great video.
I also wanted to mention that I agree with some stuff you say too! I personally think that all making the game seeded and procedurally generated did was pointlessly delay the game for like 2 years, and the level structure should’ve been more like the first.
also The End is Nigh is a banger too
But like… the fact it is an auto runner is a bloody death nail for this game. As the first game was so precise and masterful in its control scheme.
To make it an autorunner is like a sin.
And I did actually play the game so I can make this point in all legitimacy.
I agree. I disliked the original game, but enjoyed forever a lot more
@@AnimatedTerror this doesn’t make sense. The rayman origins/legends musical levels show that you can have a rock-hard and precise level where you don’t actually control the speed of your character (these aren’t TECHNICALLY autorunners, but are designed so they can only be completed if you sprint full-speed without stopping)
It's ironic that Super Meat Boy Forever started as a concept for a mobile game, thus why its an endless runner, and yet mobile is one of the few platforms which it never came to. Similarly, for a game with "Forever" in its title, you'd think there would be an endless mode - Especially considering all the effort they went through to make the regular levels procedurely-generated, how do you miss such an easy opportunity for giving your game more content?
that's a really good point, I mean geometry dash is a big seller, why leave money on the table
I bought the game the day it released on the epic games store thinking it was an endless runner. I was shocked when I found out it had no endless mode.
@@TheWillrocks51 i feel like some of its short comings would have been overlooked if it was just a phone game. people expect less. but yeah, with endless in the title, you expect something like canabalt or whatever. and they had so long to think about stuff like that
Funny thing too is that it was originally going to have an endless mode. Edmund mentioned as such years back when he was still working on Forever
It’s way too hard for an endless mode.
The soundtrack change with SMB has always been an interesting point of contention. On one hand I don't think the "new" tracks were bad, they're actually pretty cool in their own right, but on the other they certainly lacked that charming Newgrounds, Invader Zim inspired sound you think of when you hear someting is "from Newgrounds" so there's a kind of character that's just outright missing.
It's a real Sonic type senario where, due to situations outside of the creators control, they had to change the music, and while its pretty damn good, it's for the most part a huge downgrade from what it had before.
I
The new soundtrack ruined the ports for me. I never beat dark world, but after years passed you remember what games have banging soundtracks and want to revisit and it is unplayable. Very upsetting.
I can second The End is Nigh as the official Meat Boy 2.
It's soundtrack is also done by Ridiculon and, despite just being rearrangements of royalty free songs, fits the apocalyptic setting of the game.
I love the ost of tein! Its what got me into classical music
The End is Nigh was my first Edmund McMillen game lol, and absolutely loved it, just wanted to play it because the cover art looks super cool and attractive and ended up with a really fun game with memorable moments, like the little soul on a machine which if you reach says "hey, why are you not dead?"
Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 will never hit the same again
A lot of the music is royalty free by virtue of the fact they are classical/orchestral pieces from centuries past, many of which are beautiful songs in their own right and are interestingly/beautifully arranged by Ridiculon for TEIN.
The music of the End is nigh is absolutely beautiful, i'm so saddened the game is known so little, couldn't find many people talking about the arrangements, and even at one point i swear i found a playlist that accidentally included unused music, but was later fixed, they were like second versions of the worlds after the split, i remember noticing after a couple listens because the Hollows one had extra screams in the background in the drop, it was awesome.
I heard about Forever when it was first announced but comepletely forgot about it after the fact.
After watching your video, i wanted to point out a few little things about this (from whats been shown)
1. To me the appeal of super meat boys artstyle is how it felt like a classic newgrounds game, especially in the cutscenes, it had that charm to it with the blurry lines, character rigging, zoom ins, etc, and while the cutscenes in forever look really nice by an animation standpoint, i feel like it completely forgets the what made the og games animations work in the first place, it felt purposeful.
2. I remember Edmund himself stating in an interview with Vinny Vinesauce during his isaac rebirth streams that he saw procedural generation as the future of video games, and while i agree to a certain extent, i feel like their needs to be a limit to it because meat boy is not made for it, the og or forever.
Super was about its impecable level design, and you cant have a maticulously crafted level refined to near perfection with procedural generation, mainly because it breaks up the pace, and thats evident in Forever.
It wants you to memorize everything and get into a groove but thats impossible if after you finish a level everything you've learned get thrown out the window due to it being different every time, also, since these peices of level are made with pg in mind, they are a lot less focused and lack refinement, like you said, quantity over quality.
3. I feel like this game is a great reminder that a single idea is never enough to carry a full game, they started off thinking "what if we made meat boy an auto runner", the fact that they started off with the express goal of making it a auto runner instead of thinking if it was the right genre for meatboy was in itself flawed, you cant just take an already existing game and expect it to work with any genre, you have to see what works, and auto runners dont work for presicion, especially when every time you play a level its completely different, meaning that even if you managed to memorize it the first time, good luck with next time, if it would have stayed as a small expirament it would have been fine as a test of how it could be.
I definitely feel like labeling it as a sequal made it seem even worse then what it could have been had it stayed a spinoff.
Overall great video
The editing is good, your commentary was enjoyable and im always a fan of videos that talk about media not many have talked about or payed much attention to and explain why it may have been that way.
I look forward to more in the future :)
I don't believe procedural generation is the future. Level design by an artist is what makes games and their moments memorable. There's something that just feels different about meticulous design by an artist.
The procedural generation doesn't work that way, the devs made a lot of setpieces that are scrambled every time you start a new playthrough but stay consistent otherwise. Levels are explictly *not* randomly generated every time you re-start them.
@@jimjimmy8900 I really wish people understood what procedural generation was before describing it as random generation.
I guess it should be mentioned that the problem with the game started because of team meat’s falling out.
To keep it brief, while working on SMB McMillen and Tommy tired themselves out hard, causing animosity brown the two, and so Tommy, as to flip off Edmund even more, went and copyrighted the trademark for anything meatboy related, thus impeding McMillen from working with him ever again, Edmund told Tommy to fuck off and they fell out entirely, the problem is that McMilled was the one doing most of the work, and now Tommy found himself without the animator, level designer and joke creator, so he basically dug his own grave.
McMillen would then go make “The end is nigh” which is the true spiritual successor to súper meat boy.
As for Danny, I think the video forgot to mention that he also had to deal with most of the brunt of Edmund’s rage after he lost custody of one of his creations, which I will say is a shitty move by Edmund, but I’m glad Danny doesn’t regret working for him.
tommy just,,, spams makeship plushie offers on steam now i think
didnt realize this actually, finally, came out until going to pax prime last year and the spot team meat had been occupying, showing off this game at since 2014, was filled by someone else. I was so excited demoing this and meeting Tommy in 2014 lol and eventually it just became a cute and comfy relic that every year, no matter the pax, you could count on these guys showing off their silly runner game that looked almost finished six years ago.
didnt realize this actually, finally, came out until I watched this exact video
Indie developers often slap an IP they made onto an otherwise unrelated game in order to catch lightning in a bottle again. This often backfires with the fanbase openly expressing their disappointment in essentially being tricked into playing something they wouldn't be interested in under the pretense of it being something they actually want. Darkest Dungeon is currently going through something similar right now.
I assume you meant the sequel, which if you were I don't really get what you're talking about. DD2 isn't an unrelated game when compared to the original.
I think the best way I’ve heard SMBF described is “it’s like if you took The Binding of Isaac and made it so every run had the exact same floor layout, rooms, items, and bosses.” It fundamentally changes what made the OG Super Meat Boy so good and doesn’t build upon it or even try to distance itself enough mechanically to work well.
With the new soundtrack in the Meatboy re-release, I think these songs are honestly pretty good listens. Like "throw another banjo into the fire" is very good. However, these do not fit meat boy. The metal/rock music did.
These aren't bad tracks in the slightest, they just needed to be in a different game or not in a game that already had a specific style in music.
14:20
Fun Fact: The animator Paul Ter Voorde is mostly well know for animating the Eddsworld Legacy Eddisodes and helping out on the Sonic Mania Intro
I don't think the alternative ost they introduced is bad by any margin I just think it's just so far removed from what the original was going for it just becomes a little jarring, at least you swap back to the original in the options menu
Yeah, it's just different.
It's problem (for me anyway)
Was that super was all about that hard rock ost,
But then the copyright issue comes to play and you get people who understand that for binding of Issac and just...
_don't_ for some stupid reason? Like that's a completely different tone
@@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32 Meat Boy was Ridiculon's first project with Edmund, they just didn't get good direction in their first years. Similarly, Rebirth's OST pales in comparison to Repentance's.
This is competently edited and put together. Well done. I can’t say I agree with most of it but it’s always nice to see a new creator. Congrats on putting out a good video
Edmund McMillen was the creative force behind Super Meat Boy. Without him, well... we get this
Honestly my least favorite part about super meat boy forever is just the fact that at the end, they had the weird thing with meat boy and bandage girl getting older, they shouldve doubled down on that instead of making dr fetus a cosmic being, and had a grown up nugget fighting a baby/toddler dr fetus. Would've made for a much more cool and fitting boss
that last part brings up so many questions
Finally, a SMBF review that isn't just "buuuh its not like the original." Something always felt off about gameplay, but you put it into words
this vid wasn't only better than a lot of people's first videos in this style, it's already on par with a lot of later stuff people put out in their time posting videos onto this site. Can't wait to see what you continue to put out going forward ^^
Also, i'll be honest your thumbnail really enticed me to click the video, i thought your OC was some kind of new meat boy lore character and i was like woah. I really like it though!
short recap what i learned from this vid:
1. meatboy going from being good game to rayman knockoff
2. ridiculon isnt bad, but isnt good either, they should have contacted mudeth to make the music
3. when main conceptart creator leaves its always downfall
awesome video i liked when meat boy meated all over mr. fetal
Cum
It’s Meatin’ time
*Phrasing*
I liked when Nugget said "It's Nuggettin' time" as she Nuggeted all over Dr. Fetus
It’s -gragglin- Meatin’ time
Tbh i think we gave this game too much backlash for all the wrong reasons. If you really think about it, it’s one of the best games (BY MOBILE STANDARDS) because this was supposed to be a mobile game. It doesn’t live up to its name because of what it was supposed to live up to. Had this of been the first game i think people would have loved it, but since it was a game that people were expecting to be as good as the first, it flopped. This is just my opinion.
You make a really great point though, also I believe that this should’ve been a mobile spinoff for the same exact reasons, though disappointing it became a mediocre sequel
You know what, the concepts of randomly generated levels and auto running could work in meat boy, however rather than make it the main game, reserve the bonus levels to those gimmicks. Why not each world has an endless level where you have to go as far as possible and get the best score. the level is randomly generated using chuncks from the world the level takes place and you gain a point for each chunk completed, so the chapter 1 endless level will use layouts and gimmicks from chapter 1 specifically. Meanwhile the auto running could work but the stages would function as Rayman Legends esc music stages where you need to jump and punch to the beat of several popular songs from various indie games like the Cave Story theme, Geometry Dash's Deadlocked, or Binding of Isasc's Mom Boss Fight theme, that would be epic while also keeping the indie references.
who would play that though
too much effort wasted into a small mechanic nobody would care about (because it's inherently shit )
I was just about to leave a comment about The End Is Nigh being the "true" sequel to SMB, glad I waited for the end where you mention it. Good on you, and great video.
Moral of the story: want a proper sequel to Meat Boy? Play the platformer made by the actual creator of Meat Boy :)
Even then though The End Is Nigh is just about one of the best precision platformers out there and I swear I'm not biased because it's made by Edmund
I concur, and honestly, I vastly prefer The End is Nigh even to the original Super Meat Boy; it controls far better in my opinion (much less slippery and more precise air-control) with a wider variety of more tightly tuned mechanics and gimmicks; and I also much prefer the semi-metoidvania progression (especially when it comes to secrets, which are generally fantastically implemented) to the glorified menu of a "world map" in SMB.
@@ICLHStudio precision is the most important aspect of what makes modern platformers good or bad.
TEiN is so fucking underrated. It's 10x better than SMB, and Ridiculon made an amazing soundtrack that proves they're not an awful band (I mean, Afterbirth's OST was also decent, but TEiN & Repentance was were they hit the nail right on).
what meat is he made of
cheese
cheese
cheese
cheese
cheese
Your character is super adorable I love them
epic vid super meat ball
Hi shadok
It’ll be fun to see how the channels humor and editing develop its own personality as time goes on
Just as an FYI, the speedrun timer was added in a patch after release at the request of the SMBF speedrun community. We often do set seed runs where we've used a formula to determine the fastest seed, and the timer allows us to get an accurate IGT for the leaderboards.
It feels a little harsh to call its inclusion "pathetic".
How tf has this not have more views, you’re fucking amazing
Nice editing on the vid! Really got some Sequelitis vibes from it, while explaining your thoughts clearly.
I don't agree with a lot of your points, but there's one where you're absolutely right (16:20): the player barely has time to react to the stage design, and just ends up dying over and over, until (s)he memorizes each necessary movement, thus taking out the fun of going through the stage yourself. I got through the game, but that's the reason I didn't get as nearly interested or had fun as I did in the first game
Was blown away when I went to your channel to see what other videos I could watch that you've made and found out this is your first vid. Fantastic editing and video as a whole. Subscribed. Great job.
Exactly what just happened to me lol
this is really good!! i was really surprised when i realised this is your first video
It’s wild hearing your voice without twitter space compression.
I honestly wasn’t aware the level design was auto generated. That sounds like hell for this type of game and seeing some of the gameplay from this vid it be like that😭
You did a very great job on editing this video yo. Excellent first venture. I wish you luck making more!
I think this game has the world record for most time, money, and effort put into a game that the least people wanted. EVERYBODY was saying no to the infinite runner thing, even when it was presented as a short term side project.
I came to this video because I just beat the game. It was so much more in depth than I expected for an autorunner! I'm not sure if it lives up to the original, but for what it is, it's genius.
I never took a close look at Super Meat Boy Forever outside of watching a video on the unlockable characters and the bosses. It just felt disappointing and not worthwhile, but I never understood how-so. You capture that same feeling and explain it pretty well here, good stuff!
Though I will add that the Super Meat Boy 5th Anniversary Soundtrack is golden, despite its differences from the original.
The original Newgrounds Meatboy didn’t ran so slow. I played it and beat it when it came out. The gameplay shown must have been recorded with some sort of bad setup. The game was great and received some awards in the website.
For a first video this was very well done and one of the best reviews for this game I have seen! Can’t wait for more content!
I swear to god if this becomes a pattern for game sequels with “forever” in the title i will-
I'd have imagines if they ever went for another sequel, it would be fully 3D now, maybe akin to the platforming bits in Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, maybe looking more N64-ish though.
>uploads one quality video
>blows up
*insert gigachad*
"The story is so stupid"
I hear you, but the idea a dude with no skin fighting a fetus in a suit leading to anything else doesn't feel right to me
i always assumed that meat boy was just straight up a pile of meat
Fact: Minecraft used to be an indie game, and it's still classified as an indie game in the play store!
I'm playing Super Meat Boy right now since it was on sale on Xbox for like $1.50 (it was the 360 version so I can play with the original music on a modern platform thanks to backwards compatibility). I'm on world 5 right now and have done a decent amount of the dark world levels. I'm really enjoying my time with this game.
It is crazy how the very second I saw footage of Forever through this video I could tell it wasn't anywhere near the gameplay of the first. Forever really obviously should have stayed a spinoff.
Shovel Knight has a similar situation of after a dry spell a new game not based on the original game's gameplay is being released (Shovel Knight Dig). The difference is that they are stating really clearly that it is a spinoff and the time since the last Shovel Knight expansion has only been three years. Even if Dig is disappointing as a spinoff it has more leeway for doing its own thing and the base game was not long ago. Those few differences make a world of difference when comparing Super Meat Boy to Shovel Knight.
Really awesome video! I'm glad this got in my recommendations!
Just sitting down, sipping from a drink, stumbling upon a pretty well-made video and thinking ‘hey, why haven’t I seen this lil meatball before’? only to find out it’s the very first video. Looks like a very promising start, neat!
Holy crap! This is so well edited! I didn't actually know Super Meat Boy even had a sequel till this video, and that Temmie animated on it at all!
This is a really good video breaking down so many things that combined to make this game look...kind of soulless. Or at least ideas that somewhere in the creation pipeline got entirely lost. The gritty-ness of the first game made it unique and honestly it scared me to play when I was young, but I can appreciate it for establishing a hardcore game with a hardcore story, characters, and world.
If people want a cuter but more hardcore game like I think the sequel was trying to be, I would recommend Cuphead. You'll get much more satisfaction. Feel bad this game didn't turn out too great.
Amazing video, and subscribed. Excited to see the stuff you make!
"hard platforming" *shows the i wanna be the guy level*
meatball please im trying to go one day without war flashbacks
My favorite thing about SMBF is I got it free with a plush Meat Boy.
I hate doing the platinum SO MUCH and that’s why I love it so much.
Personally, I think the auto-runner aspect of the game was meant to represent how Meat Boy and Bandage Girl would never stop in their tracks trying to get their baby back
I wanna put in my two cents on more of a feeling type of thing with this game and the original. The original made me scared as a kid, like it genuinely kept me up one night after seeing all the cutscenes, while with this game it feels more suited for a kid to look at nowadays. I just feel like this game captures what businesses are becoming when it comes to games that are scary, they’re pandering more to kids. Like if I wanted to show a kid something that would keep them up at night, I would show them the og, while if I wanted to have them to feel more safe, I would show them this game. I do wanna apologize if any of this sounds stupid or makes no sense, I just wanted to put in my two cents.
You call the original (Super Meat Boy) scary? Pfffft-
*vietnam flashbacks to Salt Factory Dark World Level 3-4X*
Honestly, i can kinda see it.
New commentary channel? Hell yeah, keep it up!
It's a shame that Edmund and Tommy had different visions and trajectories at the time, so Edmund left. It is what it is. I wonder if they'll team up again some day. But not everything lasts Forever, and that's okay.
Ok so like I would write an entire essay trying to defend super meat boy but it would legit just boil down to “that’s just your opinion.”
Made a whole channel just to praise your favorite game. That must be a power play if ever we’re there one
2:17 wait wait wait hold on... you're telling me I'm just a few months older than super meat boy??? Awesome
Ok
Meatball: This game is dreadful
Me: You’re playing a Super Meat Boy game, what were you expecting?
Super Meat Boy is one of the greatest video games ever made.
This game gives me duke nukem forever flashbacks
Games should just never have the word Forever in the title.
Meatball: "Ridiculon is not bad at composing. Far from it, actually!"
Meatball (earlier in the video): 5:54
Not done watching the video yet, but this game would've been much better if it was just Super Meat Boy but with the ability to punch stuff. Seriously, just A for jump, RT for dashing, and X to punch stuff in front of you. It would have the same simplicity that SMB is known for while having just enough to make it an actual sequel.
WHAT YOURE THE ONE BEHIND THE CUT CONTENT TWITTER PAGE NO WAY LMAO great video btw!! Subbed
Awesome first upload!(I think)
Can’t wait to see what more you do!
One thing that you didn't mention is how obvious it is that the characters in the game are supposed to be a kind of self insert for edmund, his wife and his child. These characters were very personal for edmund. So its weird having someone else having complete control over them.
I clicked on this video purely because i like the art in the thumbnail, and got a nice video for it!
As someone who really enjoyed the heck out of the first SMB, and rage like hell just to go again and celebrate like a maniac to finally beat a level, you dont know how sad makes me hear all the things you said, because they are true
im very disappointed by how the game came out, not even by the fact that is an autorunner, that doesnt bother me as much as other things where the game fails, is sad that a sequel that i waited so long ended up being a pile of broken dreams
the part that most hurted me were the bossfights, i thought that with the punching mechanics they would do a lot more actives, but more charming than the ones for the first games
surely my hopes were too high :c
i really wish that, if they are planning to do a sequel (which, by the ending scene, i can say that at least the have the idea), return to the old formula, but add features that could make the game more entertaining than the first one
I haven't played this, but your footage makes it look sick actually! I'm going to have to check it out.
great video! The moment you told me the game was procedurally generated, my jaw dropped
I dint think its bad, its actually enjoyable to some people. And some of the songs are fire.
I’ve watched 4 minutes of this without actually clicking on the video to watch it
I always wondered what happened with this game. While the new mechanics look cool and tight at parts, having little time to process things and just memorizing button inputs looks less like Meat Boy and more like Bit.Trip.Runner. (At which point, I'd rather recommend to play that instead. Getting in-the-zone is a very zen experience). Regardless, that was a great informative video. Here's hoping for a more proper Meatboy in the future!
PD: @MoskiDraws here. Friends linked me to this video and I got humbled to see my artwork featured on it. Thanks a lot!
I actually had more fun with the forever than the og, but I understand some of your points
the 'what' at 17:07 cracked me up so bad
You called the art style corporate just like I did in my video, lmao awesome. Had the exact same thought
this is super good content I was very surprized to see only one video up on your channel
Good first vid, bro! I'm excited to see what other topics you made videos on!!
i just checked your channel to see more great videos and i realised this is your first video so entertaining
No way this is your first vid, it's great and has really good quality
woah, never seen your content before, but I am officially a fan, great video, keep it up. ive never actually played meat boy but now im downloading it as I write this lmao! good shit.
i think you and the community are underestimating this game i found likeing in the game because you would most likely not be doing ridiculos stuff because the game runs for you and it feels still as smooth as the original
wow, this is your first video?!? its great!!!
"Minecraft's not an indie game" ... maybe you should look up the history of Mojang
The algorithm finally blessed someone worth watching!
Subscribing before this channel blows up!
This is an extremely high quality video for a channel of your (current) size.
I love your style, I'm looking forward to what you'll upload next!
great video! i am now a meatballer
12:11 She's just a little baby
Meanwhile Dr.Fetus .....
They should make a game where people can make their own Super Meat Boy levels. That way, instead of Team Meat having to make more games, the player base could beat their own meat!
In super neat boy people already can make their own levels
@@valentinzarate700 Aw man, now my penis joke doesn't work.
@@magolormemes7519 sorry, nothing worse than a failed penis joke
Me vibin to the Forrest funk in the background
🤝🤝its in my personal playlist now
Great video, hope to see more of you in the near future ^^
I'm still at the beginning of the video, but I just wanted to say that I don't think the remixed tracks for the original Super Meat Boy you showed in 6:08 sound worse than their original counterparts, they just sound different. What I will admit is that they don't have the same tension as the originals and don't really match the level they're in.
I was thinking the same thing. They're not as intense, but they're still good, just different. That's exactly the word I would use; different. Not better or worse.
That is the perfect example of bad.
Who are they making the remixes for? People who liked the original song. If they don't like the remix you'd have been better off making new songs to be fresh and appeal to both new and old. Sure it may not be as good but it isn't a flat out worse version of X to your target audience.
@@Buglin_Burger7878 They needed to make the remixes because Danny Baranowsky (Original composer of SMB) finished his contract.
The music is made by Ridiculon, but unfortunately they couldn't get it right. But the The End is Nigh & Repentance soundtracks prove they can make some good OSTs.
Not gonna lie, both soundtracks are kinda good, in their own way. First is more of a raw heavy metal, which I personally love. The second example you gave sounded more like something out of Sally Face (not meant to be an insult. Love the game and soundtrack).
Super meat boy forever isn't really a bad game. It's just a bad sequel.
Absolutely true
There is another reason you should get the pacifiers because it can unlock a secret boss fight in the final world, except you ARE the boss. This is the one time where I think the auto run mechanic works well since its a race of course.
Hey, there’s another super meat boy sequel. But, instead it’s gonna be another meat boy adventure, this time it’s not meat boy, it’s Dr. Fetus. Yes you heard me, Dr. Fetus. The game will be “Dr. Fetus Mean Machine”
Mean meat machine
@@LucienThePeacebringer I forgot to put the meat on my sentence
>Shows IMSCARED as an example of a good indie horror game
That's all I need to know that this is going to be some high quality content.
(Jokes aside, this was a great video! I usually tend to enjoy Auto Runners(mainly for the "how far can you go" element) but this game seems to even mess that up given how there doesn't seem to be any form of Endless Mode)
this is incredibly well made for a first upload!! looking forward to whatever you make next
IT'S FUCKING AWESOME HOW CAN YOU TITLE A VIDEO LIKE THIS