Finally a detailed video on running analog console with daw. THANK YOU for taking the time to put this together for us. Majority of UA-camrs that do this just name gear but won’t show us wth the routing diagram looks like smh. Subbing 💯
Glad it was helpful! And thank you for the feedback. When I'm planning videos out I try to think of how I'd like to see it and I'd definitely want to see how it goes out and back in. Thanks for the comment!
I agree, I am an engineer for many years worked in studios all over North America, finally built my own hybrid studio I have a D&R Merlin Console, which is analog and a digital master section, so I can seamlessly move from DAW to the console. I’m never going back, I enjoy the process of mixing on a console and it always seems to have a depth you can’t get in the box.
Isn't it a great feeling? I love having found the system that works for me and hybrid totally was the right solution for me. Utilize the best of both worlds!
This is probably the most well integrated hybrid setup I've seen. Well done! Mine isn't as streamlined. Working with a more classic patch bay into the 32x32 Symphony to interface with my outboard hardware and 5088 console. I am mostly producing and mixing my own work so I don't need as efficiency but I really respect the way you've curated your setup.
I have a sigma and it was a little pain configuring it about 6 months ago. I found that I really dont need it as long as you have a good chain front end.
Hybrid here as well.. 100% even basic on board EQ on a decent console ends up being quicker to dial in than the best emulation in a plugin. The highs and lows just sit better. You also get more width through analog consoles or summing boxes and it makes things easier to dial in on the eq because of it.
I run a similar setup with two WesAudio ngLevelers and a CAPI SumBus32 that I LOVE the sound of (transformers and discrete op amps for days). One great advantage of a setup like this that might be less obvious to folks is that it's not just useful at mix time - if your patchbay setup allows for it, you've also now got an ultra-compact analog fader surface at your disposal when tracking as well, with four mono or two stereo mix busses. Great for blending guitar mics, riding a vocal, etc.
Great stuff, man. I know what you mean about upgrades. My least sexy upgrade has just happened. Switching over to TT bays and doing a full studio rewire. It's long overdue. I've been very tempted by summing for a while. Having that in my mix room instead of going to an analogue room would be ace. Thanks for the insight, Von. Really appreciate it
Thank you! I'm glad to have helped in any way. The Sigma is a really good option and isn't just another dumb summing box with no controls. Being about to really decide how hard you push things is clutch. Thanks for watching and for the comment! Make sure you enter for the speaker giveaway!
@SocialClubSound for sure, man! The sigma looks ideal. An orion 32 has been on my wish list for a while, and your approach with the recall and flow using that and the sigma is really genius. For sure, I'll enter the giveaway too!
You can use sends for both Mix A and Mix B. As for individual tracks, the brochure recommends adding the outboard gear between the convertor and the Sigma. That way you're automating post effects and not automating into your effects. Hope that helps clarify! Thanks for watching
Hi Von. Interesting and well done . BIG problem . SSL has discontinued the Sigma 16 Ch Summing Mixer or Sigma Delta and my experience with SSL, albeit great gear is that once they discontinue a product it’s as if it never existed. ZERO support. It’s a shame because the Neve summing mixers aren’t as DAW friendly as SSL is but now if one would purchase a Sigma Delta , you’re screwed for any issues as software changes every 3 months . My Alma-Mater, as it were, is Chunk King in NYC , the original Chung King in Centre St and Marathon in NYC . I’ve worked out of many others as well all over the city but got my chops at Chung King over several straight years there. I’m going back into recording coming from a live band touring/recording for over 25 years and VFX and Video editing. Looks like for my hybrid set up I’m going to have to go with AMS Neve 8816 or step up to Neve 5060. I’m not convinced on 5060. Also the Antelope is something I’m looking not . Currently using UAD 2 Apollo 8XP’s and 1 X16, with two lunch box cases packed with mini goodies. Good luck with the Sigma . It’s looks like a stellar unit. Too bad they cut it from their products
Thanks! Yeah, I mentioned in the video I think they discontinued it but I'm hoping since it uses the same MDAC tech & software as AWS and Duality consoles that it continues to function. I'm running it on my Apple Silicon machine and it's working great. I'm 10 years into the Sigma at this point so I'm gonna ride it until the wheels fall off. What time were you at Chun King? I was in NYC 2004ish working bouncing around studios.
Hey Von. This answer will be a bit long winded. There’s so much to unpack for your question. I was there in the first in ‘87. Right after Lic to ill came out . I was the 1st assistant engineer which got me to tracking duties for most sessions and assisting on mixes . Then left and came back in 88 to 89. Three sessions happened almost simultaneously for me just when I decided to leave. We were working like mad 2 sessions a day between 2 rooms . Studio A , the original room with the our mix-matched Neve and the Studer A800 and our famous modified Pultec’s Steve Ett had modified. And the B room with the Neve V 48 Channel beast . Rick Rubin was getting into metal and I assisted on the first Danzig record while assisting on LL Cool J’s Walk Like a Panther which I performed vocals while making a lot of the samples on the Akai S900 for the record while Steve ETT performed the main Engineer duties , and Nevermore and 3rd Bass all at the same time. I moved into full engineer status when one of the engineers, I won’t say who, didn’t show up because we found out later that he passed out at a shooting gallery with the one of the producers. I had to step up and take the session because it was Richie Stotts of the Plasmatic producing and Marky Ramone was playing for this Hardcore /Straightedge band called Youth of Today . You have to understand that in those days and in the NYC studio environments, not just us but every major studio was cranking out albums like we all worked on an assembly line . I worked on so many records I can’t even remember all the sessions because we were overwhelmed, overworked and did an insane amount of blow at the same time We were pumping out sessions from noon until 3-4AM, every day , 7 days a week . I ended up living in the basement of the loft building on Centre St . Steve Ett and John King lived live on the same floor as Studio A . I didn’t see daylight, literally for 4 months at one point and needless to say, I was burnt and spent . I left and went back to being a performing and session drummer . It was an incredible time in music history but many didn’t make it out alive . It was brutal and most of us developed serious habits as it were . If you didn’t get sober most likely you ended up dead . Early 90’s I got hired as the new drummer for The New Creature’s , a Gothic Band and had a career with them until 2005. Now after doing years of session work as a drummer and working as a video editor I’m going back into audio ( which I never fully left) and am interested in people such as yourselves that have been fully immersed in audio for the last 15 or so years . I’ve been doing a lot of behind the scene work in the Gothic Rock world mixing and playing for the last 12 years and have kept a low profile while working in Real Estate as well. I’m launching a UA-cam channel this next spring which will primarily deal with drumming and drumming in a studio environment along with performances . Now I’m studying all the avenues of social media marketing for music while teaching as well . I certainly wouldn’t trade my experience for anything and looking forward to meeting and working with people such as yourself and several other cats that I have seen on UA-cam here that seem to have real experience in the industry and develop new relationships via this medium as well as industry here in NYC, which I’m still engaged in and primarily out in LA in the next several years .
Wow!!! You were around for some crazy parts of history. I'm from Philly but I ended up in NYC working from 2001 to 2005 at various spots. I did a lot of hip hop back then, almost exclusively. Now days it's a lot more goth and synth stuff for me. Good luck with your channel launch! Let me know when you're live
Me Likey.🤓👍🏾👍🏾 I have all the SSL stuff except for the Sigma. I thought about getting the sigma but when I found out it was discontinued I assumed they were working on a newer version so I’ve been waiting to check that out. I’ve been on the fence with summing boxes for damn near 20 years and never pulled the trigger. I started setting my sites on the Sigma, but like I said, it got discontinued. What really interest me was using it with the Dangerous Convert -AD+… now that might be a deadly combination.🧐
I considered a 2 bus+ but I'd honestly never trade my sigma for that. I love dangerous, I use the convert -AD+ but I don't think the 2 bus sounds nearly as good and big and wide as the Sigma. Just my two cents!
@@SocialClubSound Yes-yes your right, that’s what meant… I thought you were using the converters inside the Dangerous 2bus. I didn’t realize they were separate units. Thanks for clearing that up.🫡
Great video thanks for putting out your work flow out. Can you talk about the gain staging with your orion hitting the ssl sigma? Is your gain stage -18db = 0 ? How are you making your sigma bend? I have a similar setup. I have a ssl sigma going into a burl b2 bomber. Thanks again. I went to your website. Great sounding mixes!!!!
I output out of the Orion at 0dB full volume into the Sigma. Sigma meters set to +18. I've found sending everything to the A & B busses with compressors over each and then folding the B bus back into A and outputting both A & B at +3.0dB is my sweet spot for bending! Hope that helps. Thanks for the comment!
Dan Worrall has a really good video on Summing mixers, I would be really interested to see a test where there a mix being summed in the box but only the master buss is routed though the summing mixer Vs the Full mix, and null test test them to see what happens
I'd be interested in that too. Especially if they do it at different levels. Because I know for sure (thanks to plug-in doctor) that the harder you push it the frequency balance shifts with the hotter you go, the more high frequency info introduced
This is a great set up however SSL does not make and support the Sigma anymore. I was looking at doing almost this exact set up but I didn’t want to use non supported gear. I’m a producer so I have all my instruments going to analog preamps (SSL super analog , Neve Newton channel strips ,EQs, compressors )and that goes into my interface I use a Orion 32+ for mix It then goes to my Neve 5059 for 16 out buss inserts to path bay, on the patch bay I have access to a Manley Nu Mu, 500 Series (SSL EQs 500series, Maag EQ4, NEVE 5042, SPL Big,SSL compressor), WesAudio ngBusComp, effects and etc. From the 5059 on the 2bus (-6db) out it then goes to my SSL Fusion, SSL Bus+ for premastering (just sweetening)…. I can print here. However I have a whole mastering chain Neve MBT ->Black Box HG2-> Elysia envelope -> WesAudio ngTube -> Wes AudioBus comp or IGS825 EQ -> SPL Iron V2-> Antelope Audio Amari -> back to Orion 32+ for final print.
Nice! Yeah I mentioned I think it's been discontinued. I've had mine since 2014 and I've loved it since I got it. I'm using an Apple Silicon mac now and the software all works. I hope since it uses the same MDAC as AWS and Duality consoles that it will keep working, but time will tell. Thanks for your comment and your signal chain breakdown!
Hey how are you i absolutely love your set up, i have a similar set up, question when bouncing 16 stems through the sigma back into protools do you still get the summing from the sigma, cause i was told just to use mix a to print and that's all i need, to get the best quality from summing, i have been wondering about stems but i won't to know what's the best solution, also i would love to be able to bounce stems also for the future, but i guess im trying to figure out if its best to print through mix bus a and print stems at the same time..
I can print the stems and the A bus simultaneously when the Orion since I'm using the digital output from the Convert-AD+ into tracks 33 & 34 and I use 1-32 to print the stems in. It saves me a bunch of time to do it at once. A single pass and I have stems and the mix. Thanks for your question!
Oh yeah so building a good studio myself nothing like this! I have an old ADAT that takes a SVHS, I actually been helping bands myself, I get them to grab me an SVHS and I'll bounce the final bounces down to the SVHS so they have the masters on Tapes... Also live in Detroit been wanting to get some stuff together and start building found wood speaker cabs. either way got a like I'll check out all the music you got!
Great song and voice, a touch of Kate Bush in some elements, love it, what is the name of the song? is it available yet? So you were able to get the SSL controllers to work with Delta plug in and the SIGMA, I thought I read on gearspace there was an issue with that. I have a SIGMA so this is good news. Do you have a master clock for running both of your converters? or no need as the are independent of each each other in what they do. So when you open up the delta plug in the physically faders automatically will adjust them? no need to hit a button? other than flip? This video has been extremely informative. Too bad SSL didn't add the MDAC faders to their origin console.
Thank you! So far we just did the one verse and chorus of the song for my mix template video but Anniee and I have discussed fleshing it out into a full song. We shall see! You can see in the video I have the Sigma Delta and UF8 all working together! It absolutely works together!
@@SocialClubSound OK this is great info! thanks! have done an A/B test with clipping the converter vs a software one? You def need to finish the song, as a fellow producer (fulltime) I have heard tons of stuff and I am sure you have too, but this unfinished song is really good and I would love to hear it finished.
I see you're using touch screen monitors. Here's a great workflow tip for you as I use a touch screen too. Dedicate one of those touch screens to the SSL 360 app. Right there you've got direct hands on control of each channel strip. You won't need any of those SSL hardware controllers with the touch screen approach. Give it a try and let me know what you think. SSL 360 link now supports other plugin manufacturers so you can map any vst3 plugin to link
If I'm printing stems I print directly back into the Orion 32+. If I'm printing stereo mixes and masters I'm printing into the Convert-AD+. For headphones I monitor through my Drawmer monitor controller I use for my passive speakers and headphones. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks for watching!
@@SocialClubSound for the cost of a Mac mini etc I would be running the dangerous into separate computer at 192 , so you can capture all that analog goodness , so where is your headphones source? The sigma ?
My headphones run thru my Drawmer monitor controller which takes the analog TRS outputs of the Antelope Orion 32+. That's also my monitor controller for other passive speakers.
Thank you and good eyes. You are correct, I have the Drawmer as my overall monitor controller, but the King RO4Y MKIII speakers I built have their own built in DAC so I can feed them a digital signal (spidf) direct from the Orion. Removes a level of conversion. I do love the Drawmer tho!
Hello, I'm a studio engineer in Korea. Please leave a comment if you have any questions. I'm currently connecting because I want to work ssl sigma, but it doesn't work with the app. I use m2 mac Studio and the operating system is Ventura. Can you tell me the specifications and operating system of mac Studio you are using? And I wonder if you didn't have the same symptoms as me.
I mentioned in the video I think they might have discontinued it. I can find used Sigmas on eBay and Reverb and they're much more affordable on the used market.Hope that helps
I don't believe in this anymore. I have heard so many good mixes in the box. Many successful old (and of course young) producers producing in the box for years. And I even heard a fantastic mix of a friend of Greg Wurth he mixed on a soundcraft ghost console - that sounded perfect. Apart from the fact, that digital has improved so much. Of course you can get a great mix from an SSL analog console. But even more great mixes are done in the box, because nowadays talents can sound good without having to spent half a million for equipment.
I clearly stated in the beginning that I wasn't saying you can't get good mixes in the box. I can personally get good mixes in the box. But analog gets me there much much quicker and that's why I use it
liked, subscribed & shares to to many people whom will enjoy & appreciate just how kråzÿ wonderful all this info you’ve given in this video is truly helpful 💪😅👍
The beggining of the video goes on about measurable figures, percentages and descriptive differences before dwelling into the whole setup. Main question here is: If you were to be tested on the analog vs digital summing via double blind or ABX testing, would you be able to tell which is which? While I do understand that certain pieces of gear can generate biases which can affect someone's perception and work better for some in a technical level be it for existent reasons or not, is the difference audible once you remove all biases? Music is a product made for auditory consumption after all and differences which can only be measured or pinpointed in a spec sheet of frequency plot are meaningless, IMO. Considering the computing power we have in our hands currently, analog audio emulation is pretty much a solved problem and it's only gonna become harder and harder to argue differences, assuming there are still differences to begin with.
You get analog inserts on the A and B busses. If your want to use outboard equipment on individual channels you just place it between the interface and the Sigma so you don't ride into the gear with every volume change. Hope that helps!
my hybrid setup LITERALLY SOUNDS LIKE THE RADIO IN 06' I make rap and rock and when I get 80% through a mix I swear it feels like Green Day American idiot . when I get it there I know I'm almost done
Am I the only one screaming to myself that all of this outboard gear comes with Reason Studios? Reason even has the mastering suite. Please someone, I hope I’m not going crazy here. Great video but it seems like a lot of extra work and money spent.
It's not even close . Reasons mixer is just a representation if anything. It's a pretty good program but they should have stayed in their lane imo . I use the vst of the rack now
I get it but the reason I'm disagreeing is the Sigma frequency response doesn't stay flat on the Sigma. As you push it harder, the frequency profile shifts. That's without any transformers or anything that's just sold state summing with the Sigma. So depending at what volume the things are summed they don't always sound identical. Not trying to be a contrarian.
I’ve been an engineer for 40 years. Analogue summing of stems is pointless. If you want to add distortion (that’s all analogue summing does) you can do it in stereo when mastering. Please don’t fall for this nonsense.
@@SocialClubSound I understand this video is providing viewers information about your setup and how it works for you, but I doubt they can afford such a setup. Therefor I see this as a promotional video for your service. Nothing wrong with that. I just expected something more budget-friendly advise ;-) Just keep going
I mentioned in the video I slowly built this system over time. I didn't order it all and it just showed up. I was just trying to share my journey and how I got here.
this dude sounds like he wants to sell me something. To much talk and nothing of substance. At least until i had patience to listen his merchant story. Big thumbs down
limiting yourself to the sonic characteristics of the past, in today's technological environment, means you are intentionally leaving yourself behind. after hearing your music, i see why you are making youtube videos about gear and not music.
Finally a detailed video on running analog console with daw. THANK YOU for taking the time to put this together for us. Majority of UA-camrs that do this just name gear but won’t show us wth the routing diagram looks like smh. Subbing 💯
Glad it was helpful! And thank you for the feedback. When I'm planning videos out I try to think of how I'd like to see it and I'd definitely want to see how it goes out and back in. Thanks for the comment!
I agree, I am an engineer for many years worked in studios all over North America, finally built my own hybrid studio I have a D&R Merlin Console, which is analog and a digital master section, so I can seamlessly move from DAW to the console.
I’m never going back, I enjoy the process of mixing on a console and it always seems to have a depth you can’t get in the box.
Isn't it a great feeling? I love having found the system that works for me and hybrid totally was the right solution for me. Utilize the best of both worlds!
@@SocialClubSound I hear you,
Cheers!
This has helped me understand fully the process of hybrid mixing! Thank you for this video!!
Thanks for watching! Glad it helped
This is probably the most well integrated hybrid setup I've seen. Well done! Mine isn't as streamlined. Working with a more classic patch bay into the 32x32 Symphony to interface with my outboard hardware and 5088 console. I am mostly producing and mixing my own work so I don't need as efficiency but I really respect the way you've curated your setup.
Thank you! I tried to plan it out best I could along the way. Hey if you ever want to trade that 5088 for my Sigma let me know 😋😁
Been thinking about the Sigma myself. I am currently using the Neve Orbit. It sounds amazing. This is my 5th summing amp and I really like it a lot.
Neve is no slouch at all. That's the only other summing I really really like besides SSL.
I have a sigma and it was a little pain configuring it about 6 months ago. I found that I really dont need it as long as you have a good chain front end.
Hybrid here as well.. 100% even basic on board EQ on a decent console ends up being quicker to dial in than the best emulation in a plugin. The highs and lows just sit better. You also get more width through analog consoles or summing boxes and it makes things easier to dial in on the eq because of it.
I watched a similar video a year ago and I was so confused. But you explained it very well
Glad to hear it was easier to digest. Thanks for letting me know! 🙏🏼
I run a similar setup with two WesAudio ngLevelers and a CAPI SumBus32 that I LOVE the sound of (transformers and discrete op amps for days). One great advantage of a setup like this that might be less obvious to folks is that it's not just useful at mix time - if your patchbay setup allows for it, you've also now got an ultra-compact analog fader surface at your disposal when tracking as well, with four mono or two stereo mix busses. Great for blending guitar mics, riding a vocal, etc.
Great stuff, man. I know what you mean about upgrades. My least sexy upgrade has just happened. Switching over to TT bays and doing a full studio rewire. It's long overdue.
I've been very tempted by summing for a while. Having that in my mix room instead of going to an analogue room would be ace.
Thanks for the insight, Von. Really appreciate it
Thank you! I'm glad to have helped in any way. The Sigma is a really good option and isn't just another dumb summing box with no controls. Being about to really decide how hard you push things is clutch. Thanks for watching and for the comment! Make sure you enter for the speaker giveaway!
@SocialClubSound for sure, man! The sigma looks ideal. An orion 32 has been on my wish list for a while, and your approach with the recall and flow using that and the sigma is really genius.
For sure, I'll enter the giveaway too!
Another great video!!! 👏👏👏
Thanks! And thanks again for lending your vocals! 🙏🏼
that's was the best and most detailed Sigma video😊, I got one question can you use sends? with Sigma
You can use sends for both Mix A and Mix B. As for individual tracks, the brochure recommends adding the outboard gear between the convertor and the Sigma. That way you're automating post effects and not automating into your effects. Hope that helps clarify! Thanks for watching
@@SocialClubSound okay thanks will try that 👌
Great video and really love this setup approach 🤘💀🍻🔥
Thank you!!!
Hi Von. Interesting and well done . BIG problem . SSL has discontinued the Sigma 16 Ch Summing Mixer or Sigma Delta and my experience with SSL, albeit great gear is that once they discontinue a product it’s as if it never existed. ZERO support. It’s a shame because the Neve summing mixers aren’t as DAW friendly as SSL is but now if one would purchase a Sigma Delta , you’re screwed for any issues as software changes every 3 months . My Alma-Mater, as it were, is Chunk King in NYC , the original Chung King in Centre St and Marathon in NYC . I’ve worked out of many others as well all over the city but got my chops at Chung King over several straight years there. I’m going back into recording coming from a live band touring/recording for over 25 years and VFX and Video editing. Looks like for my hybrid set up I’m going to have to go with AMS Neve 8816 or step up to Neve 5060. I’m not convinced on 5060. Also the Antelope is something I’m looking not . Currently using UAD 2 Apollo 8XP’s and 1 X16, with two lunch box cases packed with mini goodies. Good luck with the Sigma . It’s looks like a stellar unit. Too bad they cut it from their products
Thanks! Yeah, I mentioned in the video I think they discontinued it but I'm hoping since it uses the same MDAC tech & software as AWS and Duality consoles that it continues to function. I'm running it on my Apple Silicon machine and it's working great. I'm 10 years into the Sigma at this point so I'm gonna ride it until the wheels fall off. What time were you at Chun King? I was in NYC 2004ish working bouncing around studios.
Hey Von. This answer will be a bit long winded. There’s so much to unpack for your question. I was there in the first in ‘87. Right after Lic to ill came out . I was the 1st assistant engineer which got me to tracking duties for most sessions and assisting on mixes . Then left and came back in 88 to 89. Three sessions happened almost simultaneously for me just when I decided to leave. We were working like mad 2 sessions a day between 2 rooms . Studio A , the original room with the our mix-matched Neve and the Studer A800 and our famous modified Pultec’s Steve Ett had modified. And the B room with the Neve V 48 Channel beast . Rick Rubin was getting into metal and I assisted on the first Danzig record while assisting on LL Cool J’s Walk Like a Panther which I performed vocals while making a lot of the samples on the Akai S900 for the record while Steve ETT performed the main Engineer duties , and Nevermore and 3rd Bass all at the same time. I moved into full engineer status when one of the engineers, I won’t say who, didn’t show up because we found out later that he passed out at a shooting gallery with the one of the producers. I had to step up and take the session because it was Richie Stotts of the Plasmatic producing and Marky Ramone was playing for this Hardcore /Straightedge band called Youth of Today . You have to understand that in those days and in the NYC studio environments, not just us but every major studio was cranking out albums like we all worked on an assembly line . I worked on so many records I can’t even remember all the sessions because we were overwhelmed, overworked and did an insane amount of blow at the same time We were pumping out sessions from noon until 3-4AM, every day , 7 days a week . I ended up living in the basement of the loft building on Centre St . Steve Ett and John King lived live on the same floor as Studio A . I didn’t see daylight, literally for 4 months at one point and needless to say, I was burnt and spent . I left and went back to being a performing and session drummer . It was an incredible time in music history but many didn’t make it out alive . It was brutal and most of us developed serious habits as it were . If you didn’t get sober most likely you ended up dead . Early 90’s I got hired as the new drummer for The New Creature’s , a Gothic Band and had a career with them until 2005. Now after doing years of session work as a drummer and working as a video editor I’m going back into audio ( which I never fully left) and am interested in people such as yourselves that have been fully immersed in audio for the last 15 or so years . I’ve been doing a lot of behind the scene work in the Gothic Rock world mixing and playing for the last 12 years and have kept a low profile while working in Real Estate as well. I’m launching a UA-cam channel this next spring which will primarily deal with drumming and drumming in a studio environment along with performances . Now I’m studying all the avenues of social media marketing for music while teaching as well . I certainly wouldn’t trade my experience for anything and looking forward to meeting and working with people such as yourself and several other cats that I have seen on UA-cam here that seem to have real experience in the industry and develop new relationships via this medium as well as industry here in NYC, which I’m still engaged in and primarily out in LA in the next several years .
Wow!!! You were around for some crazy parts of history. I'm from Philly but I ended up in NYC working from 2001 to 2005 at various spots. I did a lot of hip hop back then, almost exclusively. Now days it's a lot more goth and synth stuff for me. Good luck with your channel launch! Let me know when you're live
Me Likey.🤓👍🏾👍🏾
I have all the SSL stuff except for the Sigma. I thought about getting the sigma but when I found out it was discontinued I assumed they were working on a newer version so I’ve been waiting to check that out. I’ve been on the fence with summing boxes for damn near 20 years and never pulled the trigger. I started setting my sites on the Sigma, but like I said, it got discontinued.
What really interest me was using it with the Dangerous Convert -AD+… now that might be a deadly combination.🧐
I considered a 2 bus+ but I'd honestly never trade my sigma for that. I love dangerous, I use the convert -AD+ but I don't think the 2 bus sounds nearly as good and big and wide as the Sigma. Just my two cents!
@@SocialClubSound Yes-yes your right, that’s what meant… I thought you were using the converters inside the Dangerous 2bus. I didn’t realize they were separate units.
Thanks for clearing that up.🫡
Pretty clever Von!
Thank you!
great video…full of wonderful info & inspirational 👍
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks so much!
@@SocialClubSoundi’m gonna send you an email today with some good news 👍
@@SocialClubSoundwe have too much in common…not just gear, but sonic vision 🤘❤️🤘
Great video thanks for putting out your work flow out. Can you talk about the gain staging with your orion hitting the ssl sigma? Is your gain stage -18db = 0 ? How are you making your sigma bend? I have a similar setup. I have a ssl sigma going into a burl b2 bomber. Thanks again. I went to your website. Great sounding mixes!!!!
I output out of the Orion at 0dB full volume into the Sigma. Sigma meters set to +18. I've found sending everything to the A & B busses with compressors over each and then folding the B bus back into A and outputting both A & B at +3.0dB is my sweet spot for bending! Hope that helps. Thanks for the comment!
@@SocialClubSound Thank you for the explanation.
You should do an in depth video on prices of the equipment
Getting flashbacks from back in the day using the Sigma and Orion 32+.
They pair up nicely!
Thx! Good information!
Glad it was helpful!
Dan Worrall has a really good video on Summing mixers, I would be really interested to see a test where there a mix being summed in the box but only the master buss is routed though the summing mixer Vs the Full mix, and null test test them to see what happens
I'd be interested in that too. Especially if they do it at different levels. Because I know for sure (thanks to plug-in doctor) that the harder you push it the frequency balance shifts with the hotter you go, the more high frequency info introduced
我以前一直用“划线”的方式在DAW中做自动化控制，也是可以工作的，但是感觉太过于理性了，混音缺乏张力。我须要改变！感谢您的分享！👍👍👍
Glad I could help!
Well, that was interesting .. a lot :)
Thanks for stopping by
I Love going hybrid!
even without the prize you worth like & subscribe!
Thanks for the great information 🙏
I appreciate that! Thanks for the both!
Been wanting to purchase the sigma... one question. Is the pluging digital control compatible with current gen mac hardware (m1, m2, m3 macs)?
Yes! I'm running it on my M1 Mac Studio. Plug-in works, iPad app for the Sigma works. It's honestly awesome.
Didn’t even watch the whole thing but I already know this video is gonna be invaluable for me. Thank you VERY much!
Glad it was helpful! If you have any questions just ask
This is a great set up however SSL does not make and support the Sigma anymore. I was looking at doing almost this exact set up but I didn’t want to use non supported gear. I’m a producer so I have all my instruments going to analog preamps (SSL super analog , Neve Newton channel strips ,EQs, compressors )and that goes into my interface I use a Orion 32+ for mix It then goes to my Neve 5059 for 16 out buss inserts to path bay, on the patch bay I have access to a Manley Nu Mu, 500 Series (SSL EQs 500series, Maag EQ4, NEVE 5042, SPL Big,SSL compressor), WesAudio ngBusComp, effects and etc. From the 5059 on the 2bus (-6db) out it then goes to my SSL Fusion, SSL Bus+ for premastering (just sweetening)…. I can print here. However I have a whole mastering chain Neve MBT ->Black Box HG2-> Elysia envelope -> WesAudio ngTube -> Wes AudioBus comp or IGS825 EQ -> SPL Iron V2-> Antelope Audio Amari -> back to Orion 32+ for final print.
Nice! Yeah I mentioned I think it's been discontinued. I've had mine since 2014 and I've loved it since I got it. I'm using an Apple Silicon mac now and the software all works. I hope since it uses the same MDAC as AWS and Duality consoles that it will keep working, but time will tell. Thanks for your comment and your signal chain breakdown!
Yeah I’m gonna read all that 😂
@@ViejoGameL idgaf
@@risingphoenix1484😂😂😂😂😂😂
Good stuff brotha!
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching
Hey how are you i absolutely love your set up, i have a similar set up, question when bouncing 16 stems through the sigma back into protools
do you still get the summing from the sigma, cause i was told just to use mix a to print and that's all i need, to get the best quality from summing,
i have been wondering about stems but i won't to know what's the best solution, also i would love to be able to bounce stems also for the future, but i guess im trying to figure out if its best to print through mix bus a and print stems at the same time..
I can print the stems and the A bus simultaneously when the Orion since I'm using the digital output from the Convert-AD+ into tracks 33 & 34 and I use 1-32 to print the stems in. It saves me a bunch of time to do it at once. A single pass and I have stems and the mix. Thanks for your question!
HMM interesting stuff, lol too late for the monitors but I'm going to a free SSL event tonight so catching up.
Oh yeah so building a good studio myself nothing like this! I have an old ADAT that takes a SVHS, I actually been helping bands myself, I get them to grab me an SVHS and I'll bounce the final bounces down to the SVHS so they have the masters on Tapes... Also live in Detroit been wanting to get some stuff together and start building found wood speaker cabs. either way got a like I'll check out all the music you got!
Great song and voice, a touch of Kate Bush in some elements, love it, what is the name of the song? is it available yet? So you were able to get the SSL controllers to work with Delta plug in and the SIGMA, I thought I read on gearspace there was an issue with that. I have a SIGMA so this is good news. Do you have a master clock for running both of your converters? or no need as the are independent of each each other in what they do. So when you open up the delta plug in the physically faders automatically will adjust them? no need to hit a button? other than flip? This video has been extremely informative. Too bad SSL didn't add the MDAC faders to their origin console.
Thank you! So far we just did the one verse and chorus of the song for my mix template video but Anniee and I have discussed fleshing it out into a full song. We shall see!
You can see in the video I have the Sigma Delta and UF8 all working together! It absolutely works together!
Oh and for a master clock, I'm using the Convert-AD+ and Dangerous clocking as my studio master clock. The Antelope slaves to the Dangerous.
@@SocialClubSound OK this is great info! thanks! have done an A/B test with clipping the converter vs a software one? You def need to finish the song, as a fellow producer (fulltime) I have heard tons of stuff and I am sure you have too, but this unfinished song is really good and I would love to hear it finished.
Waves Vocal Rider do the volume automation trick for you, record the fader movement then edit the automation to taste
Great Video. Salut from Cape Vert
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video
I see you're using touch screen monitors. Here's a great workflow tip for you as I use a touch screen too. Dedicate one of those touch screens to the SSL 360 app. Right there you've got direct hands on control of each channel strip. You won't need any of those SSL hardware controllers with the touch screen approach. Give it a try and let me know what you think. SSL 360 link now supports other plugin manufacturers so you can map any vst3 plugin to link
Great video 🤩
Thank you!
Trade secrets 👀👀👀
A look behind the curtain
Cool shirt, too 😘
Goals!!
so are you running a separate print rig ? what about headphone monitoring ?
If I'm printing stems I print directly back into the Orion 32+. If I'm printing stereo mixes and masters I'm printing into the Convert-AD+. For headphones I monitor through my Drawmer monitor controller I use for my passive speakers and headphones. Hope that helps clarify. Thanks for watching!
@@SocialClubSound for the cost of a Mac mini etc I would be running the dangerous into separate computer at 192 , so you can capture all that analog goodness , so where is your headphones source? The sigma ?
My headphones run thru my Drawmer monitor controller which takes the analog TRS outputs of the Antelope Orion 32+. That's also my monitor controller for other passive speakers.
Great video, man. I see drawmer as your monitor controller. Correct me if I am wrong.
Thank you and good eyes. You are correct, I have the Drawmer as my overall monitor controller, but the King RO4Y MKIII speakers I built have their own built in DAC so I can feed them a digital signal (spidf) direct from the Orion. Removes a level of conversion. I do love the Drawmer tho!
@@SocialClubSound wow that’s nice!
yooo, buzz me in. iiim riGht outside!!!
Hello, I'm a studio engineer in Korea. Please leave a comment if you have any questions.
I'm currently connecting because I want to work ssl sigma, but it doesn't work with the app.
I use m2 mac Studio and the operating system is Ventura.
Can you tell me the specifications and operating system of mac Studio you are using?
And I wonder if you didn't have the same symptoms as me.
Do you have IP midi installed? That needs to be configured a certain way for the app to have a connection
Is that a game table ? Like the ones in casinos
Yeah, this is The Social Club. Poker tables double as desks :-)
push’in it to that sweet spot
Ligma 😂
Ok I tried to look in to this but it seems like no one is selling the Sigma anywhere?
I mentioned in the video I think they might have discontinued it. I can find used Sigmas on eBay and Reverb and they're much more affordable on the used market.Hope that helps
@@SocialClubSound Sorry I missed it ;) , So neve is the only other one you like? What about the DBOX+ ?
Dbox plus is something I may eventually purchase for myself but I don't have much experience with the summing portion of it. Not enough to speak on it
My kind of thinking Great stuff My G
Thank you! 🙏🏼
Bought a pocket operator 4 years ago, look at me pretending like I know what I’m doing now 🙃
I'm the operator with my pocket calculator 😉
I don't believe in this anymore. I have heard so many good mixes in the box. Many successful old (and of course young) producers producing in the box for years. And I even heard a fantastic mix of a friend of Greg Wurth he mixed on a soundcraft ghost console - that sounded perfect. Apart from the fact, that digital has improved so much.
Of course you can get a great mix from an SSL analog console. But even more great mixes are done in the box, because nowadays talents can sound good without having to spent half a million for equipment.
I clearly stated in the beginning that I wasn't saying you can't get good mixes in the box. I can personally get good mixes in the box. But analog gets me there much much quicker and that's why I use it
where i can find this Convert 80 plus?
It's the Dangerous Convert-AD+ analog to digital converter. Check it out!
Is that a competition poker card table?
Sure is, welcome to The Social Club
Is that a blackjack table?
Used to be, now it's my desk 😁
liked, subscribed & shares to to many people whom will enjoy & appreciate just how kråzÿ wonderful all this info you’ve given in this video is truly helpful 💪😅👍
Much appreciated!
„you can too“ ehehehe man I‘m broke 😂😂😂
Fair point! I just mean it's possible 😉
Sigma activities
The beggining of the video goes on about measurable figures, percentages and descriptive differences before dwelling into the whole setup. Main question here is: If you were to be tested on the analog vs digital summing via double blind or ABX testing, would you be able to tell which is which? While I do understand that certain pieces of gear can generate biases which can affect someone's perception and work better for some in a technical level be it for existent reasons or not, is the difference audible once you remove all biases? Music is a product made for auditory consumption after all and differences which can only be measured or pinpointed in a spec sheet of frequency plot are meaningless, IMO. Considering the computing power we have in our hands currently, analog audio emulation is pretty much a solved problem and it's only gonna become harder and harder to argue differences, assuming there are still differences to begin with.
Then go make your music in the box! Nothing wrong with that.
Does the sigma provide analog inserts?
You get analog inserts on the A and B busses. If your want to use outboard equipment on individual channels you just place it between the interface and the Sigma so you don't ride into the gear with every volume change. Hope that helps!
@@SocialClubSound aaah i see. that's awesome. thanks a lot for the response! cheers!
is that a poker table?
Sure is, welcome to The Social Club ♠️♣️♥️♦️🃏
Prefer my 9080J or 4064G+
Not surprised
my hybrid setup LITERALLY SOUNDS LIKE THE RADIO IN 06' I make rap and rock and when I get 80% through a mix I swear it feels like Green Day American idiot . when I get it there I know I'm almost done
hot take. ..... linkin park had HOTSHYTGARBAGE MIXES... am I bugging? or do you agree?
I agree 😂
@@SocialClubSound crazy right!? mad low, bass all over the place . snares jump out and stuff
when i clip it sounds distorted but thats what I was going for it’s supposed to be harsh and muddy wutang!! 🤦🏻♂️🤣
@@GgWhyfye thats crazy to me those mixes are damn near perfect 😂😂 like almost unobtainably good
Am I the only one screaming to myself that all of this outboard gear comes with Reason Studios? Reason even has the mastering suite. Please someone, I hope I’m not going crazy here. Great video but it seems like a lot of extra work and money spent.
It's not even close . Reasons mixer is just a representation if anything. It's a pretty good program but they should have stayed in their lane imo . I use the vst of the rack now
Analog summing sounds the same as digital summing
If that were the case, I wouldn't bother using it
@@SocialClubSound i'm talking about summing. Transformers and other stuff is another story. But summing is exactly the same.
I get it but the reason I'm disagreeing is the Sigma frequency response doesn't stay flat on the Sigma. As you push it harder, the frequency profile shifts. That's without any transformers or anything that's just sold state summing with the Sigma. So depending at what volume the things are summed they don't always sound identical. Not trying to be a contrarian.
I’ve been an engineer for 40 years. Analogue summing of stems is pointless. If you want to add distortion (that’s all analogue summing does) you can do it in stereo when mastering.
Please don’t fall for this nonsense.
all 3 secondhand: +/- 10.000 euro. Who is your audience? (not talking about the remote controllers)
Not sure I understand your question. Are you asking who watches these videos?
@@SocialClubSound I understand this video is providing viewers information about your setup and how it works for you, but I doubt they can afford such a setup. Therefor I see this as a promotional video for your service. Nothing wrong with that. I just expected something more budget-friendly advise ;-)
Just keep going
I mentioned in the video I slowly built this system over time. I didn't order it all and it just showed up. I was just trying to share my journey and how I got here.
this dude sounds like he wants to sell me something. To much talk and nothing of substance. At least until i had patience to listen his merchant story. Big thumbs down
limiting yourself to the sonic characteristics of the past, in today's technological environment, means you are intentionally leaving yourself behind. after hearing your music, i see why you are making youtube videos about gear and not music.
Sharing my experiences doesn't feel limiting at all. You have a great day. I know I am!
Too much speaking !