I’ve always found this to be interesting. Musicians who play for free for THEIR worship services have a 9-5 through the week and are quite financially stable. But musicians who live exclusively off their gigs have the most money problems, EVEN when they’re earning better than six figures. This isn’t a Church problem, it’s a personal financial responsibility problem. It really doesn’t matter who you’re playing for, if you lack monetary discipline you’re going to blow through your cash. Professional artists have ALWAYS had this problem.
Facts man facts. Honestly the way I made it work was also associate pastoring in the church. Even then it was rough. I greatly appreciate my IT degree now.
Leaving the church musician field freed me from a experience that soured over the 48 years I served. Once you seen the truth you can't unsee it........
@@DevinShoulders Agreed but, when you read the scriptures and adhere to it's teaching you kinda expect church leadership to do the same or better than you. I lost belief in ministry when it became a system.
@@Soundofjoy I completely understand that and for that reason, I always keep church services I accept "small" because like you said once it gets to a certain point the toxic "system" aspect of it starts to kick in. I stick to playing for small 50-100 member church where I get $100-200 range for that reason (4 to 500 can still be ok but you gotta be careful lol) . It gets to "business only/toxic" when you go higher than that.
Please!!! hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
Amen! I did a similar video to echo @johnmike's comments, and I couldn't agree more. The problem is the root mentality of expecting ministry to meet all your needs. - Allen C. Paul
@@KellBailey a lot of people on the internet either think we said that musicians should get paid, or think we are speaking out against churches for paying musicians. I’ve been getting reply’s on my comment for three weeks.
I played at the same church as the "lead musician" for 25yrs and 3mos. I missed FOUR Sundays in that time. One Sunday we had no power, one Sunday we were snowed in, and 2 Sundays for surgeries, one was an emergency, I still tried to make it.... they NEVER paid me more than $150 a week, at one point I gave up half that for a few weeks to pay other musicians on staff. My Pastor decided to only have Worship Service on Saturday (the Sabbath), because of my job, I wasn't able to be there. I had no hard feelings until my replacement came in making more than twice what I received all those years. At this point I will never give another church that kind of commitment again. Very heartbroken.
I agree I only play drums at church on Sunday and practice couple times a week. With that I have a finance degree working on cause I only do this for fun and to praise the lord because this can’t help me buy a Porsche
This is a financial literacy issue. Wealth is not about how much you make, but how much you keep. Playing at church to get paid and solely relying on that money to live is wild.
I never got paid for playing at church as a drummer but i definitely did burn out which after 18 years is why I stopped doing it. The main problem in my case was how much sometimes these paid mega church music directors on staff would take advantage of those who volunteered there to play because they would require one to practice multiple times a week and then play 6-8 services a weekend on average (which became the norm for me). In my case, I was fine at first because I was starting out and genuinely enjoyed the playing and worshipping aspect of it but after a while I definitely felt the burn out and also the exhaustion of the time commitment they were asking for. I practically had little time to do anything else, especially on weekends with services on both Saturdays and Sundays. And in my case, whenever I declined playing on a weekend through planning center just to take a break, they would sometimes completely flip out on me and make me feel guilty for not serving that weekend when they had no one else to go to. Yes, one can say I had a problem saying "No" but when you looked up to some of these worship leaders and musical directors, especially early on in your walk with Christ, that guilt stuff for not serving can really get to you. Anyways, I can go on for hours about all the problems that I saw behind the scenes and had to live through at different mega churches while I served but I totally understand why some musicians do feel the need to be compensated when the church takes advantage of their volunteers in that way. I'm starting to notice that not much has changed at least in the megachurch scene because I feel they care more about putting on a "show" more than creating a genuine worship experience and the sanity of their music volunteers.
Damn that’s an extensive Sunday. I typically only play for one service at the eleventh hour, most of my churches segments are different in different spots throughout the church. But I did fill in last minute for a big church and it was intense. 3-4 practice that Saturday night, showing up at 6:30 that next Sunday morning to play two services. It was cool, I was supposed to be paid but I slipped away after service and visiting.
@@JA-ut8fi yeah man it was brutal, this was back in 2008-2012. It was actually rehearsal Saturday morning, sometimes Friday night, then 2 services on Saturday and 4-5 services on Sundays every weekend. On Christmas week we would play for the whole week leading up to Christmas Eve and on Christmas Eve we would have back to back services from 9am to 10:30pm at night. I’m not exaggerating and it was like this for Easter and other special events too. I personally think it was overkill and totally unnecessary but the way you mentioned the service structure of the mega church you played at seems like the new norm and way better than it was before in terms of service times and not burning out. But yeah I think balance is definitely key. Also taking into account the church culture is important because that can definitely create either a positive or negative on the whole experience for a worship musician.
I play Bass at church in VA. It’s a relatively small church and we get paid very little. It’s never been about the money as it started off an a volunteer situation. Over time i started getting payments monthly. I’m blessed to have a decent paying 9 to 5 and what I make at church can put a meal or 2 on the table for my family.
You can say this about any job/gig. Musicianship isn't any different, but people treat it so because they think all we do is "press keys" and "bang the drums". People don't realize how significant music is and how much of a gift it is. Yes, there's people that go to school for it. Also, we have these major music record labels, which make money off of the music that they put out, so, what makes this different? I think a lot of people are excusing the actions of the pastors not being honest about pay. At the end of the day, we are all trying to make ends meet...doesn't matter how we do it.
I used to play Bass in Church for about two years give or take. I got payed maybe $30 for that Sunday but to be honest, I didn't care if I got payed or not. I told the Worship Leader that I did not want any money. But he insisted. Well fast forward and 2020 happened. And very bad situations and complications happened and I stopped playing in Church. This made me sit back and reflect on the songs that we were playing. And based on my convictions, I could not play music in Church ever again. Now if I tried, I would absolutely fail miserably. I would probably make a lot of mistakes in my playing. So the days of playing in Church at all, are completely over for me. Never again.
I’ve been through some of it all as a musician. I struggled with the idea of getting paid as a musician for years and even the idea of only playing gospel music. Long story but God provided opportunities for me to get paid to play which slowly broke that mental barrier off of me. Even now I believe God has given everyone talents, gifts, abilities or however people want to call them for others and also to help sustain you. Not muzzling the oz is a principle. Each person needs to seek God on how they fit the bigger picture of the kingdom and how we fit in it. The church is just one aspect of the kingdom and not the whole of it. God needs his people everywhere. No matter what God has given you it’s ok to enjoy the benefits of his blessings. Let the word, the Holy Ghost and your conscience guide you on who he made you to be. We all will make good and bad decisions.
I feel you bro! I have been playing drums at my church for 17 years. Yes...the same church. I always thought a lot of these cats that played organ an keys at a lot of these churches and these full time musicians had it going on. Little did I know.... In all honesty, years ago I discovered that a lot of great musicians that I knew were struggling. Their phones were always turned off. They faced evictions and repossessions. They bounced around with different roommates etc. I began to realize that even though I looked up at these folks musicianship, I did not wish to live the life that they did. I began to realize that maybe I should keep music as more of a hobby than anything. 17 years later I am in a career that I love. I do pretty good financially and I still get to play for my church on the side. No knock to the full time musicians. I admire their passion. I just can't do it. I would have progressed so much more musically if I had invested more time into playing. I found out that if you aren't on the big stage, in most cases the money doesn't make sense. Much respect to all of my full time working musicians. I respect the heck outta yall.
Man kell I made $20 a Sunday & what I would never understood was How Many Musicians get paid low from church but speakers and pastors get paid Lots of Money. I Quit church in March and I make way more as a Music producer.
I view playing for church as ministry more so now. Growing it was a cool thing to tell my friends (some) when they ask what I do I play for church. Some shamed me for doing such a thing but nowadays they say that’s awesome. I use it as cushion so if I don’t like my full time job my income doesn’t completely stop
@@thymick5581with all due respect my brother.. if pastors and speakers can get paid Musicians deserve to get paid unless you have a Job that you make like $50k a year on average. To answer your question, I prefer not to comment on that.
@@thymick5581you may not choose to get paid that’s you but other Musicians are different from you & I understand what the Bible says but Music can be a gig also.
@@Staykool777 I do cause it’s mine as well…but…it don’t make enough lol. You gotta have something that supplies your gifts and sometimes you’ve got to do the things you don’t like.
I stopped playing drums at church, but it wasn’t about money. It started to feel like a job and I didn’t like that…I was starting to not like playing. Honestly, before watching this video, I had no idea church musicians got paid. I knew the music directors did because they’re on the staff.
Until musicians are willing to walk away from depending on the church musician income, the problem of pay will continue persist. John Mike makes some good points but a caveat is that some musicians don’t want to do anything but perform live on their instrument…This is not knocking those individuals like John Mike, but we must be clear that a lot of church musicians could use a higher salary and more benefits. So the solution is to walk away if pay is an issue. Most of us would agree that in many cases a musician can work a part time job and get more pay and less headache as opposed to dealing with certain types of churches. Not all churches are low balling, but there are plenty of them that are. Lastly, have we ever noticed how it’s musicians constantly bringing this topic of pay to the table and oftentimes NOT pastors or churches 🤔. Something to consider. I don’t believe this is a musical problem but instead a church problem. Js Great video & God bless brother!
@@LivingHisWordDaily Let’s ask the question… if a church could just run the music from backing tracks ( which some churches do) or an anointed individual came through and volunteered… you as a pastor would consider it. Some musicians have to even provide the setup they play on as well and do it without a fee… Music is important… but I feel the word of God and the commitment of setting the atmosphere comes first. The money for me always came second. Ableton live could replace a lot of us, so the fact that we still get paid in the midst of all this technology the churches could be using is a blessing.
@@dray4393 Please!!! hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
@@KellBailey My comment was a general statement. That's why it wasn't addressed to you specifically. I am 51yrs and i've been a "church" musician since age 6. However, i've been a minister of the Gospel for 15yrs. I see it from both ends. My grandfather was a pastor so I get it! In my church I play and preach plus work 13hrs 5 days a week. I can tell you some stories bro✌🏾
Nehemiah 13:11-19 The churches that don't pay their musicians are thieves and robbers and deserve to be rebuked by God and lose their musicians. "I will praise God with the gift he gave me and usher people into the presence of the Lord"? If you are referring to anything similar by David or Joshua or any of the authors of any books in the bible, they weren't Levites so they weren't assigned any portion for their prayses. Where as professional musicians that are trained professionally and are serving in the church are basically modern day Levites and they do deserve an appropriate portion for their labor. And playing music is nothing short of labor.
I’ve been playing only in church and around the gospel scenes. Never anywhere else other than that. For church I’ve never felt the need to be paid to glorify God with the talent and gifts He has blessed me with, this is how I honor and worship Him thru it. Only when I was going with a Christian artist then there will be payments as they are paying me to play with them. Now I pastor the church I understand the need to pay for musicians.
I play at church but I also have a full-time job so I don't really worry about church payments, all I ask for is gas money. I truly believe musicians should be paid, but I agree with KB, church is not a full-time job (unless it's a mega church). Your smaller to mid-sized churches realistically cannot afford musicians like KB.
I’ve been blessed enough for 4 years to have a stable job earning $26/hr… and have all benefits. Dental, vision, medical. 401k. Before I was full time musician with no benefits earning about $800/week. Now I’m earning $2400/week having a full time job and playing music part time. No rehearsals. No outings. And I’m only part time technically because I play 1 day out of the week, I will never go back full time musician without benefits.
@@MandyGee000 if a Pastor does not pay what they agree to pay… you are not obligated to be there. Just communicate to them that’s bad business and move on. A pastor can rob you unless you let them.
Interesting. In the netherlands, most church musicians don't ever get paid. Only if you are a guest musician. Always gigged around and have fulltime job steady.
2 things. 1. I grew up around musicians saying the church was holding out on the “real money” cuz I wasn’t there yet 😂 now at $10k per year at my church a decade later ( it’s all good they got realistic expectations now) 2. Like Phil walker said the $1000+ per week isn’t the standard 😂 they mindset was I’d get paid like that if my skills were there. My church ain’t got that ability and I love my church I don’t want to bankrupt them 😂
I don’t know of any musicians that have retired from being a church musician. My take on it is that I’m a part-time job for me. Definitely not making it making it financially. But it gets me through some challenging times.
It's all about calling. You'd have peace taking the lower pay, church hours and other stuff if you get fulfillment of what you're doing. If you're in the wrong place, no matter how well you're compensated, how great your co-workers or boss is, it's not gonna feel great.
I play in church 4 times a week. I don’t get paid by the church but God has blessed me amazingly. I’m one of the higher tithers in church by the grace of Jesus Christ. That’s why I’m ok with not getting paid by the church . God have paid me more than what the church can
I completely subscribe to this message. Until us musicians take action before the churches will adhere and adjust accordingly. ❤ Quick question bro.. which audio interface do you recommend for someone who want to teach virtual keyboard lessons.
100% facts I haven’t nothing against full time musicians but I understand the life I want to live requires more than one income ..we as musicians have to think about the future I don’t want to be 65 an having to go to rehearse for a gig no shade 😂
Let's be honest. many musicians are not even sacred on stage. We have made the choice to play in the house of God. And I think if you play for the Lord you should do it with your heart. If there is a possibility that your church can pay you monthly or per service, that is a bonus. but let's not forget that as a musician you are in the service of God. Many musicians don't even tithe, but want money from the church for their time
You could not have said it better ... "One must have streams of income." That is why it is good to be a jack of many trades. Those skills can earn you cash outside your main income source. I know from experience as a past weekend church musicain. Two more things ...(1) I encourage you earn that extra money to invest and save. Those are two distinct concepts, believe it or not. (2) So many people think that earning extra cash means that they should spend more. No ... this is an opportunity to place yourself in another financial category for a lifetime. Go for it, my friends!
According to a Barna survey in 2021 they found that the majority of churches in the US have an attendance of less than 90 adults. And these smaller churches are more likely to have low income families attending. Only 2% of all churches have a regular attendance of 1000 or more. So, the expectation that churches pay their musicians a full-time liveable salary, medical, dental, vision, life insurance, and retirement benefits is simply an unrealistic expectation. Like Kell said, what you make playing in church should be one part of your total financial plan.
I have never been paid to play in church. I’ve played for probably 10-12 years of just playing in church. I consider my music as part of offering/praise to the Lord. I also pay tithes. But I have absolutely no issue with ANYONE getting paid if that’s what they do to make money. I get it. I’ve got a full time job and so does my wife so we can afford it because we’ve been blessed. What I don’t like, is someone playing in church and they have no beliefs and leave as soon as their part in music is over. But I’m no one’s judge. I love everyone. Take care guys.
This happens because instead of you giving your gift to God and allowing him to use you in your gift in YOUR church that you stay in, alot of musicians want to go church hopping and playing in gigs to perform and make a name for themselves while simultaneously getting finances when a real gospel musician especially old school knows it's not about the money it's about winning souls to Christ. (I'm from an really old school pentecostal church if you know you know).
@@TyMayberryWhitelion112 my comment thread has 53 replies so far with me educating people that the commitment to God should be first… character of the ministry you play under second, money third…. And that’s only if you want or need to get paid.
TBH.... I don't get paid to play the keys at church and I've been playing in the church ministry since I was 16 years old. I'm now 38 years old and so my pastor says its not your ability, its your availability to serve and your giving your talents to the Lord and you shouldn't get paid to do it. do you agree or am I being fooled to by my pastor?
@@Moananu the real question is, do you feel you should be paid. Pray on it, then speak to your pastor. When I came to the church I’m at now, I gave them what I needed and we worked out what they could pay and I was good. I don’t ask them for allot because they don’t have it like that, plus my wife grew up in that church so they have become like family to me now. Be direct and ask what your church can do. If you are ok with not getting paid, then that’s ok too. Your pastor is not wrong for giving you his opinion… but if you don’t agree, you should have that talk. I’m 45 , I’ve been in music ministry 12 years… I started late.
@@oljones31 I’ve spoken to my pastor about this issue longtime ago he brushed it off by saying what I commented earlier. I put a lot of time and effort into learning my craft and I also am our vocal coach for our singers as well so I feel my time and effort into the ministry goes unnoticed in the church and they think playing the keys is simple so I bite my tongue when it comes to this.
@@Moananu I played at a place for 4 years where the pastor said they would pay me and did not… I moved on. Trust me when I say this, there are more churches that need musicians and are willing to pay than there are musicians available. At least where I live. I could play all weekend if I wanted to… and I’m far from the best musician sir.
@@oljones31 I’m happy for you I just wish I got some reward for my efforts it takes it toll on me mentally its not to praise me or anything. I do this for the Lord off course but if I pay my tithing and play keys in the ministry and don’t get paid for it. Then maybe it’s time to pull the plug on it. But yeah I wanna get paid to support my family
@@Moananu I would pray on this. If you spoke with the pastor and he refuses to address you, that’s a respect issue. If you feel you should be paid and they won’t come to the table, I would move on.
I walked away 10 years ago....youre better off in the club...some of the stuff you see as the church musician is insane. Some churches feel the musician shdnt be paid but say that same thing to the pastor. Being a church musician is the most difficult role for a musician. You really need to be proficiant in all keys on your instrument-epecially organ and it is some work
Here's the thing. Most pastors are not making enough to retire. Most pastors don't get health and life benefits from the church. Most pastors have a full-time job, and what they make from the church, if anything, is just extra, but they still have all the responsibilities of a pastor. The problem with calling it a gig is it is NOT regular stuff. This is God's business and should be approached as such. A musician is a minister of music. Minister is the keyword, and the fact is most musicians don't take the minister part seriously. It's just another gig to them. Now imagine if Pastors treated church as gigs and moved on when they found someone that would pay more. (some do). Pastors need to have integrity when dealing with the business aspect of it, and if they don't, I encourage musicians to leave, but also musicians, if you are going to enter the Kingdom as a musician, you need to understand it is more than a job/gig it is a ministry. I've been playing for 20 years, and I found a church that couldn't pay me what I wanted, but the church was good, the pastor was upstanding, and they treated me well. I prayed about it. I stayed and ended up getting a job that more than covered what I wanted to get paid. You can't approach God's business like you do the world's business. They are not the same.
What’s the average pay for a church musician in the US? Been playing for church here in New Zealand for almost 10 years and haven’t earned anything monetary. Encouraging to hear people make money from playing in church. 💯
@@sssstarl4 hey man good question! Average it’s tough to say because that number could look very different depending on where you live in the states but on a typical Sunday I’ve heard of musicians making anywhere from $100-1,200 on a Sunday morning. Again it’s a very broad range and a lot of factors determine how much you can make.
Before people comment they should review their skills before comparing themselves to someone else who actually practises and has a lot to offer a church/customer
I played the piano at church for years, when I was growing up. I would never imagine accepting any money for that. It was my praise offering, my way to worship. I don’t believe anyone should be paid for church work.
Doesn't sound like you played at your church professionally. Just a volunteer. Where as if they were to get professional musicians, they should pay them. Nehemiah 13:11-19 The churches that don't pay their musicians are thieves and robbers and deserve to be rebuked by God and lose their musicians. Music is nothing short of labor especially as a band and they should be given their portion accordingly.
@@crjetpilot I guess you don't know that the Levites were dedicated musicians to play praise music at the temple. Also, rest of the servers in the temple all got their portions from the offerings of the people, so did the Levites. The churches that don't pay their musicians that are professionally trained are basically robbing them and the lord isn't pleased with them. They are basically modern day Levites and churches aren't treating them as so. So don't go bad mouthing the musicians when they leave your church cuz yall are basically robbing them.
I’m still kind of lost on this movement. If it’s something God told you, I respect it, validly understand, and agree. If it’s burnout, I validly understand and agree. I watched his video and he seems like he made the decision just off of churches not paying enough in offering life issuance and medical benefits over all, which I also understand, but why not continuing playing in the church just as extra income? Majority of the time, it’s only on Sunday. You have Monday to Saturday to work a better paying job.
I believe other than the pastor all the other positions at church are voluntary and any money received is a blessing if a musician wants to make a living playing music then choose another outlet join a band or a become session musician the church will be fine without you play for God not for money
The statement that you've just made is totally contradictory to the Bible. God does not share that belief. And values the music and the music creators to the point that his instructions throughout the entire old testament regarding this topic, is very clear that the music minstrels are to receive a 10th of every tithe that comes in. As well as land etc... they were to be taken care there first! And then do other things to gain increase, not the other way around.
That's what this entire argument for decades have been about and yet I hear no one refer to what the Bible specifically says. Because if they did, this wouldn't be an argument to begin with.
I get it..... But in reality, it's foolish to think there is security anywhere. This whole conversation needs to be had in the context of the economy, not just the church. Nothing about this conversation is tied into the big picture. If you can make a teacher's salary playing a gig, you will be fine. Just be smart with the money. Pay attention to the WORLD, not your church. No security for nobody!!!
Too many churches abuse musicians economically and the ONLY reason that it persists so often rest with how many preachers won’t stop lying about compensating musicians.
I agree for sure do you have to have multiple streams of income especially especially in this day and age for sure keep up the great work keep up the great content definitely learning a lot
Isaiah 26:13 speaks of other lords that ruled over God’s people - If your view of serving the church with your musical gifts as a way to peruse wealth and possessions, then you really should consider taking a step back to just engage in worship with other believers to refocus on God.
I whole heartily agree! Thats why i mentioned in the video "Being a church musician financially should not be the pinnacle of ones life" If you are blessed enough to receive income as a musician at your church praise God, but create a stream of income away from church. I hope you watched the whole video and i pray that it is not being misinterpreted.
most musicians use church gigs as a steppingstone or as a way to take care of their basic necessities. I think you're speaking to the wrong audience, here.
It needs to be treated as extra income. I think it’s important to get some type of other skill in addition to music. I ended up getting a degree and teaching credential so that I can provide for myself and family.
IF GOD HASNT LED YOU TO MUSIC MINISTRY GET OUT AND DONT LOOK BACK! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FULL TIME WORK IN A SMALL CHURCH YOU ARE DELUSIONAL. THOSE JOBS ARE FEW ARE FAR BETWEEN! DO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD AND HIS MUSIC…OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE PAINFULLY DISAPPOINTED ☹️!
The church shouldn’t frown at musicians that play,teach, or direct outside of the church. When I was younger i wrestled with my mother about the type of music I had to play and learn being a musician. She thought classical music was sacred and Jazz music was of the devil. Every talent or gift comes from God. If you were a lawyer would you be a church lawyer, a church doctor, a church plumber etc etc 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
This culture of church "gigging" is wrong......musicians only go to church to get paid, hopping from church to church and they have forgotten to be "the church", most of them don't even sit in a service to hear the word and participate in a worship service, and that is wrong.....We are part of the church as a body first, then we use our gifts to serve the Lord and to edify others, but our identity is not based on what we do, is in who we are first, His children, his sheep.
I’m confused, who expects ANY music “gig” to pay enough to support you or provide healthcare? Gigging isn’t ever a full time job (unless your spouse has insurance).
Jamal Hartwell, John Mike and Yaahn Hunter as well they’re changing the game!! With the plugins, courses and all that’s how you succeed as a musician that’s a great way to build a side hustle. Gospel Musicians need to expend their genre as well man…listen to some Kaytranada or something become a DJ, learn a trade until you truly master the marketing of music.
Why don’t you make a video about how you could have a full time job and still volunteer at your church? That’s the real trick. Do both! Why sacrifice completely your talents and abilities that God gave you?
Church is not cardinal it is a spiritual place.. so musician who use the church as a GIG or a pay day.. are there for the MONEY. God does not need these type of musician... sick 😫
What in the world is 'multiple 6 figures'??? You make 6 figures from multiple jobs? If so, just lump it all together if it's all from playing music. "I make $346,000 a yr as a musician". Makes more sense and is just simpler to understand.
Im saying people that want to get payed for worshiping. Im not apposed to being payed by your church, i also agree with you that it should be more of a part time. My take on it is that we are here to serve God and most importantly we as musicians should keep our selfs clean, prayed up and ready at all times to worship, Jesus will provide us with the rest.
@@Abandonments567 hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
When they church folks don't want to pay, they hit you with the "YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN" stuff 😂😂😂
Thinking church should be your only or main source is what causes many musicians to resent playing in church.
I’ve always found this to be interesting. Musicians who play for free for THEIR worship services have a 9-5 through the week and are quite financially stable. But musicians who live exclusively off their gigs have the most money problems, EVEN when they’re earning better than six figures.
This isn’t a Church problem, it’s a personal financial responsibility problem. It really doesn’t matter who you’re playing for, if you lack monetary discipline you’re going to blow through your cash. Professional artists have ALWAYS had this problem.
💯
Facts man facts. Honestly the way I made it work was also associate pastoring in the church. Even then it was rough. I greatly appreciate my IT degree now.
Leaving the church musician field freed me from a experience that soured over the 48 years I served. Once you seen the truth you can't unsee it........
@@Soundofjoy man listen!! 🚀
every church is different man, I had MANY sour experiences. Just don’t put them all in the same box 👌🙏
@@DevinShoulders Agreed but, when you read the scriptures and adhere to it's teaching you kinda expect church leadership to do the same or better than you. I lost belief in ministry when it became a system.
@@Soundofjoy I completely understand that and for that reason, I always keep church services I accept "small" because like you said once it gets to a certain point the toxic "system" aspect of it starts to kick in. I stick to playing for small 50-100 member church where I get $100-200 range for that reason (4 to 500 can still be ok but you gotta be careful lol) . It gets to "business only/toxic" when you go higher than that.
You want a musician learn to play
Please!!! hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
Amen! I did a similar video to echo @johnmike's comments, and I couldn't agree more. The problem is the root mentality of expecting ministry to meet all your needs. - Allen C. Paul
@@KellBailey a lot of people on the internet either think we said that musicians should get paid, or think we are speaking out against churches for paying musicians. I’ve been getting reply’s on my comment for three weeks.
I played at the same church as the "lead musician" for 25yrs and 3mos. I missed FOUR Sundays in that time. One Sunday we had no power, one Sunday we were snowed in, and 2 Sundays for surgeries, one was an emergency, I still tried to make it.... they NEVER paid me more than $150 a week, at one point I gave up half that for a few weeks to pay other musicians on staff. My Pastor decided to only have Worship Service on Saturday (the Sabbath), because of my job, I wasn't able to be there. I had no hard feelings until my replacement came in making more than twice what I received all those years. At this point I will never give another church that kind of commitment again. Very heartbroken.
I agree I only play drums at church on Sunday and practice couple times a week. With that I have a finance degree working on cause I only do this for fun and to praise the lord because this can’t help me buy a Porsche
@@dripking4155 Amen… I just want an old Boxster…
This is a financial literacy issue. Wealth is not about how much you make, but how much you keep. Playing at church to get paid and solely relying on that money to live is wild.
absolutely!!! that sums up the video!
It’s both. You need to make more in order to keep more while also living within your means.
I've been doing it for 30 years, never had a problem
@@WordOfLife71Nehemiah 13:10-14
@@DrIncredible-ml9lq 1 Timothy 5:18
I never got paid for playing at church as a drummer but i definitely did burn out which after 18 years is why I stopped doing it.
The main problem in my case was how much sometimes these paid mega church music directors on staff would take advantage of those who volunteered there to play because they would require one to practice multiple times a week and then play 6-8 services a weekend on average (which became the norm for me). In my case, I was fine at first because I was starting out and genuinely enjoyed the playing and worshipping aspect of it but after a while I definitely felt the burn out and also the exhaustion of the time commitment they were asking for. I practically had little time to do anything else, especially on weekends with services on both Saturdays and Sundays.
And in my case, whenever I declined playing on a weekend through planning center just to take a break, they would sometimes completely flip out on me and make me feel guilty for not serving that weekend when they had no one else to go to. Yes, one can say I had a problem saying "No" but when you looked up to some of these worship leaders and musical directors, especially early on in your walk with Christ, that guilt stuff for not serving can really get to you.
Anyways, I can go on for hours about all the problems that I saw behind the scenes and had to live through at different mega churches while I served but I totally understand why some musicians do feel the need to be compensated when the church takes advantage of their volunteers in that way. I'm starting to notice that not much has changed at least in the megachurch scene because I feel they care more about putting on a "show" more than creating a genuine worship experience and the sanity of their music volunteers.
Damn that’s an extensive Sunday. I typically only play for one service at the eleventh hour, most of my churches segments are different in different spots throughout the church. But I did fill in last minute for a big church and it was intense. 3-4 practice that Saturday night, showing up at 6:30 that next Sunday morning to play two services. It was cool, I was supposed to be paid but I slipped away after service and visiting.
@@JA-ut8fi yeah man it was brutal, this was back in 2008-2012. It was actually rehearsal Saturday morning, sometimes Friday night, then 2 services on Saturday and 4-5 services on Sundays every weekend.
On Christmas week we would play for the whole week leading up to Christmas Eve and on Christmas Eve we would have back to back services from 9am to 10:30pm at night. I’m not exaggerating and it was like this for Easter and other special events too.
I personally think it was overkill and totally unnecessary but the way you mentioned the service structure of the mega church you played at seems like the new norm and way better than it was before in terms of service times and not burning out.
But yeah I think balance is definitely key. Also taking into account the church culture is important because that can definitely create either a positive or negative on the whole experience for a worship musician.
@@JA-ut8fioh and you should have them atleast Venmo you the money 🤣
I play Bass at church in VA. It’s a relatively small church and we get paid very little. It’s never been about the money as it started off an a volunteer situation. Over time i started getting payments monthly. I’m blessed to have a decent paying 9 to 5 and what I make at church can put a meal or 2 on the table for my family.
You can say this about any job/gig. Musicianship isn't any different, but people treat it so because they think all we do is "press keys" and "bang the drums". People don't realize how significant music is and how much of a gift it is. Yes, there's people that go to school for it. Also, we have these major music record labels, which make money off of the music that they put out, so, what makes this different? I think a lot of people are excusing the actions of the pastors not being honest about pay. At the end of the day, we are all trying to make ends meet...doesn't matter how we do it.
I work full time Monday to Saturday and the Sunday for church
I used to play Bass in Church for about two years give or take. I got payed maybe $30 for that Sunday but to be honest, I didn't care if I got payed or not. I told the Worship Leader that I did not want any money. But he insisted. Well fast forward and 2020 happened. And very bad situations and complications happened and I stopped playing in Church. This made me sit back and reflect on the songs that we were playing. And based on my convictions, I could not play music in Church ever again. Now if I tried, I would absolutely fail miserably. I would probably make a lot of mistakes in my playing. So the days of playing in Church at all, are completely over for me. Never again.
I’ve been through some of it all as a musician. I struggled with the idea of getting paid as a musician for years and even the idea of only playing gospel music. Long story but God provided opportunities for me to get paid to play which slowly broke that mental barrier off of me. Even now I believe God has given everyone talents, gifts, abilities or however people want to call them for others and also to help sustain you. Not muzzling the oz is a principle.
Each person needs to seek God on how they fit the bigger picture of the kingdom and how we fit in it. The church is just one aspect of the kingdom and not the whole of it. God needs his people everywhere. No matter what God has given you it’s ok to enjoy the benefits of his blessings. Let the word, the Holy Ghost and your conscience guide you on who he made you to be. We all will make good and bad decisions.
I feel you bro! I have been playing drums at my church for 17 years. Yes...the same church. I always thought a lot of these cats that played organ an keys at a lot of these churches and these full time musicians had it going on. Little did I know.... In all honesty, years ago I discovered that a lot of great musicians that I knew were struggling. Their phones were always turned off. They faced evictions and repossessions. They bounced around with different roommates etc. I began to realize that even though I looked up at these folks musicianship, I did not wish to live the life that they did. I began to realize that maybe I should keep music as more of a hobby than anything. 17 years later I am in a career that I love. I do pretty good financially and I still get to play for my church on the side. No knock to the full time musicians. I admire their passion. I just can't do it. I would have progressed so much more musically if I had invested more time into playing. I found out that if you aren't on the big stage, in most cases the money doesn't make sense. Much respect to all of my full time working musicians. I respect the heck outta yall.
Man kell I made $20 a Sunday & what I would never understood was How Many Musicians get paid low from church but speakers and pastors get paid Lots of Money. I Quit church in March and I make way more as a Music producer.
I view playing for church as ministry more so now. Growing it was a cool thing to tell my friends (some) when they ask what I do I play for church. Some shamed me for doing such a thing but nowadays they say that’s awesome. I use it as cushion so if I don’t like my full time job my income doesn’t completely stop
Churches don't value musicians. They love to exploit them.
@@thymick5581with all due respect my brother.. if pastors and speakers can get paid Musicians deserve to get paid unless you have a Job that you make like $50k a year on average. To answer your question, I prefer not to comment on that.
@@thymick5581you may not choose to get paid that’s you but other Musicians are different from you & I understand what the Bible says but Music can be a gig also.
@@DevinShouldersGod bless you for blessing GOD!
For those looking for something to make a living on while also doing music...try picking up a trade.
@@joshjones9749 if playing music is your gift and it shall make room for you... Why do you think this is not your tool for making a living?
Yep! Facts! I’m in Heavy Duty Mechanic
Music is their craft. You don't get it.
@@Staykool777 I do cause it’s mine as well…but…it don’t make enough lol. You gotta have something that supplies your gifts and sometimes you’ve got to do the things you don’t like.
@@joshjones9749 I was a mechanic before I was a musician… now I work behind a desk… I can’t go back sir.
I stopped playing drums at church, but it wasn’t about money. It started to feel like a job and I didn’t like that…I was starting to not like playing. Honestly, before watching this video, I had no idea church musicians got paid. I knew the music directors did because they’re on the staff.
Until musicians are willing to walk away from depending on the church musician income, the problem of pay will continue persist.
John Mike makes some good points but a caveat is that some musicians don’t want to do anything but perform live on their instrument…This is not knocking those individuals like John Mike, but we must be clear that a lot of church musicians could use a higher salary and more benefits.
So the solution is to walk away if pay is an issue. Most of us would agree that in many cases a musician can work a part time job and get more pay and less headache as opposed to dealing with certain types of churches. Not all churches are low balling, but there are plenty of them that are.
Lastly, have we ever noticed how it’s musicians constantly bringing this topic of pay to the table and oftentimes NOT pastors or churches 🤔. Something to consider. I don’t believe this is a musical problem but instead a church problem. Js
Great video & God bless brother!
@@LivingHisWordDaily Let’s ask the question… if a church could just run the music from backing tracks ( which some churches do) or an anointed individual came through and volunteered… you as a pastor would consider it.
Some musicians have to even provide the setup they play on as well and do it without a fee… Music is important… but I feel the word of God and the commitment of setting the atmosphere comes first. The money for me always came second.
Ableton live could replace a lot of us, so the fact that we still get paid in the midst of all this technology the churches could be using is a blessing.
Wow!!! What happened to "I will praise God with the gift he gave me and usher people into the presence of the Lord"?
@@dray4393 Please!!! hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.
@@KellBailey My comment was a general statement. That's why it wasn't addressed to you specifically. I am 51yrs and i've been a "church" musician since age 6. However, i've been a minister of the Gospel for 15yrs. I see it from both ends. My grandfather was a pastor so I get it! In my church I play and preach plus work 13hrs 5 days a week. I can tell you some stories bro✌🏾
If the musicians can’t get paid, you got to take away offering too 😂 only way I can respect it
Nehemiah 13:11-19 The churches that don't pay their musicians are thieves and robbers and deserve to be rebuked by God and lose their musicians.
"I will praise God with the gift he gave me and usher people into the presence of the Lord"?
If you are referring to anything similar by David or Joshua or any of the authors of any books in the bible, they weren't Levites so they weren't assigned any portion for their prayses.
Where as professional musicians that are trained professionally and are serving in the church are basically modern day Levites and they do deserve an appropriate portion for their labor. And playing music is nothing short of labor.
Love your content man keep doing what your doing love it💯💯💯🔥🔥
@@JTechxx_14 thank you bro!! Appreciate you watching !!
Deep✨
There's a difference between being a paid staff member & a volunteer
I’ve been playing only in church and around the gospel scenes. Never anywhere else other than that. For church I’ve never felt the need to be paid to glorify God with the talent and gifts He has blessed me with, this is how I honor and worship Him thru it. Only when I was going with a Christian artist then there will be payments as they are paying me to play with them. Now I pastor the church I understand the need to pay for musicians.
I play at church but I also have a full-time job so I don't really worry about church payments, all I ask for is gas money. I truly believe musicians should be paid, but I agree with KB, church is not a full-time job (unless it's a mega church). Your smaller to mid-sized churches realistically cannot afford musicians like KB.
I’ve been blessed enough for 4 years to have a stable job earning $26/hr… and have all benefits. Dental, vision, medical. 401k. Before I was full time musician with no benefits earning about $800/week. Now I’m earning $2400/week having a full time job and playing music part time. No rehearsals. No outings. And I’m only part time technically because I play 1 day out of the week, I will never go back full time musician without benefits.
That’s great bro. You make about the same u do at ur job in music that’s really good
I have played in some terrible churches but the church i play with now is great
If your only reason for playing in church is to get paid…. that’s an issue
@@oljones31 I agree ☝🏽 👏🏽
say that to the pastor....ijs
@@oljones31while I agree, it still doesn't stop the fact that your bills have to pay.
Not really. It's an issue when musicians get robbed by pastors, who claims to "love the LORD"
@@MandyGee000 if a Pastor does not pay what they agree to pay… you are not obligated to be there. Just communicate to them that’s bad business and move on. A pastor can rob you unless you let them.
Very important conversation here
@@passportaffair indeed
Good episode! 👍🏾
My guy !!
Interesting. In the netherlands, most church musicians don't ever get paid. Only if you are a guest musician. Always gigged around and have fulltime job steady.
2 things.
1. I grew up around musicians saying the church was holding out on the “real money” cuz I wasn’t there yet 😂 now at $10k per year at my church a decade later ( it’s all good they got realistic expectations now)
2. Like Phil walker said the $1000+ per week isn’t the standard 😂 they mindset was I’d get paid like that if my skills were there. My church ain’t got that ability and I love my church I don’t want to bankrupt them 😂
@@DevinShoulders man you right bro! Realistic expectations is important. Musicians that get paid that much is not common.
@@DevinShoulders I don’t charge my church a lot either. Because I love them like family. My wife is also the MD there, so that plays a part too.
I don’t know of any musicians that have retired from being a church musician. My take on it is that I’m a part-time job for me. Definitely not making it making it financially. But it gets me through some challenging times.
Almost no musicians are able to do so professionally. Church or not.
FACTS!!!!!
It's all about calling. You'd have peace taking the lower pay, church hours and other stuff if you get fulfillment of what you're doing. If you're in the wrong place, no matter how well you're compensated, how great your co-workers or boss is, it's not gonna feel great.
This is the problem with the church! This right here!!!! 🤦🏽♂️
Damn, y’all get paid😂 nah I understand bro
I sincerely enjoy your content bro💯 I’m also planning to purchase some of your products soon💪🏽
@@robertcockfield2841 appreciate the support man means a lot 💪🏽
I play in church 4 times a week. I don’t get paid by the church but God has blessed me amazingly. I’m one of the higher tithers in church by the grace of Jesus Christ.
That’s why I’m ok with not getting paid by the church .
God have paid me more than what the church can
@@JorgeLHurtado love this 🙌🏾🙌🏾
You helped us sir
I completely subscribe to this message. Until us musicians take action before the churches will adhere and adjust accordingly. ❤ Quick question bro.. which audio interface do you recommend for someone who want to teach virtual keyboard lessons.
hey bro check out a focusrite interface!
@@KellBailey Ok, thanks.
100% facts I haven’t nothing against full time musicians but I understand the life I want to live requires more than one income ..we as musicians have to think about the future I don’t want to be 65 an having to go to rehearse for a gig no shade 😂
Let’s go with the content! 🔥
YESSIR!!!!!
Let's be honest. many musicians are not even sacred on stage. We have made the choice to play in the house of God. And I think if you play for the Lord you should do it with your heart. If there is a possibility that your church can pay you monthly or per service, that is a bonus. but let's not forget that as a musician you are in the service of God. Many musicians don't even tithe, but want money from the church for their time
You could not have said it better ... "One must have streams of income." That is why it is good to be a jack of many trades. Those skills can earn you cash outside your main income source. I know from experience as a past weekend church musicain. Two more things ...(1) I encourage you earn that extra money to invest and save. Those are two distinct concepts, believe it or not. (2) So many people think that earning extra cash means that they should spend more. No ... this is an opportunity to place yourself in another financial category for a lifetime. Go for it, my friends!
According to a Barna survey in 2021 they found that the majority of churches in the US have an attendance of less than 90 adults. And these smaller churches are more likely to have low income families attending. Only 2% of all churches have a regular attendance of 1000 or more. So, the expectation that churches pay their musicians a full-time liveable salary, medical, dental, vision, life insurance, and retirement benefits is simply an unrealistic expectation. Like Kell said, what you make playing in church should be one part of your total financial plan.
Thank you for hearing the heart of what i was saying !! Alot of these comments missed what i was saying lol
I was in the phone with a pastor who said he doesn’t pay his musicians if Watch Night was on a Sunday!!!
I have never been paid to play in church. I’ve played for probably 10-12 years of just playing in church. I consider my music as part of offering/praise to the Lord. I also pay tithes.
But I have absolutely no issue with ANYONE getting paid if that’s what they do to make money. I get it. I’ve got a full time job and so does my wife so we can afford it because we’ve been blessed.
What I don’t like, is someone playing in church and they have no beliefs and leave as soon as their part in music is over.
But I’m no one’s judge. I love everyone. Take care guys.
I bet the pastor LOVES you 😂😂😂
These are not church musician issues. These are musician issues. Maybe employee of any kind issues.
Excellent bro
@@marcusastanley thank you bro!
This happens because instead of you giving your gift to God and allowing him to use you in your gift in YOUR church that you stay in, alot of musicians want to go church hopping and playing in gigs to perform and make a name for themselves while simultaneously getting finances when a real gospel musician especially old school knows it's not about the money it's about winning souls to Christ. (I'm from an really old school pentecostal church if you know you know).
@@TyMayberryWhitelion112 my comment thread has 53 replies so far with me educating people that the commitment to God should be first… character of the ministry you play under second, money third…. And that’s only if you want or need to get paid.
You must not be a musician. This is am ignorant statement.
TBH.... I don't get paid to play the keys at church and I've been playing in the church ministry since I was 16 years old. I'm now 38 years old and so my pastor says its not your ability, its your availability to serve and your giving your talents to the Lord and you shouldn't get paid to do it.
do you agree or am I being fooled to by my pastor?
@@Moananu the real question is, do you feel you should be paid. Pray on it, then speak to your pastor. When I came to the church I’m at now, I gave them what I needed and we worked out what they could pay and I was good. I don’t ask them for allot because they don’t have it like that, plus my wife grew up in that church so they have become like family to me now.
Be direct and ask what your church can do.
If you are ok with not getting paid, then that’s ok too.
Your pastor is not wrong for giving you his opinion… but if you don’t agree, you should have that talk. I’m 45 , I’ve been in music ministry 12 years… I started late.
@@oljones31 I’ve spoken to my pastor about this issue longtime ago he brushed it off by saying what I commented earlier. I put a lot of time and effort into learning my craft and I also am our vocal coach for our singers as well so I feel my time and effort into the ministry goes unnoticed in the church and they think playing the keys is simple so I bite my tongue when it comes to this.
@@Moananu I played at a place for 4 years where the pastor said they would pay me and did not… I moved on. Trust me when I say this, there are more churches that need musicians and are willing to pay than there are musicians available. At least where I live. I could play all weekend if I wanted to… and I’m far from the best musician sir.
@@oljones31 I’m happy for you I just wish I got some reward for my efforts it takes it toll on me mentally its not to praise me or anything. I do this for the Lord off course but if I pay my tithing and play keys in the ministry and don’t get paid for it. Then maybe it’s time to pull the plug on it.
But yeah I wanna get paid to support my family
@@Moananu I would pray on this. If you spoke with the pastor and he refuses to address you, that’s a respect issue. If you feel you should be paid and they won’t come to the table, I would move on.
I walked away 10 years ago....youre better off in the club...some of the stuff you see as the church musician is insane. Some churches feel the musician shdnt be paid but say that same thing to the pastor. Being a church musician is the most difficult role for a musician. You really need to be proficiant in all keys on your instrument-epecially organ and it is some work
Here's the thing. Most pastors are not making enough to retire. Most pastors don't get health and life benefits from the church. Most pastors have a full-time job, and what they make from the church, if anything, is just extra, but they still have all the responsibilities of a pastor. The problem with calling it a gig is it is NOT regular stuff. This is God's business and should be approached as such. A musician is a minister of music. Minister is the keyword, and the fact is most musicians don't take the minister part seriously. It's just another gig to them. Now imagine if Pastors treated church as gigs and moved on when they found someone that would pay more. (some do). Pastors need to have integrity when dealing with the business aspect of it, and if they don't, I encourage musicians to leave, but also musicians, if you are going to enter the Kingdom as a musician, you need to understand it is more than a job/gig it is a ministry. I've been playing for 20 years, and I found a church that couldn't pay me what I wanted, but the church was good, the pastor was upstanding, and they treated me well. I prayed about it. I stayed and ended up getting a job that more than covered what I wanted to get paid. You can't approach God's business like you do the world's business. They are not the same.
500 to 600 before taxes! Once taxes are factored in, that $24k will be in the teens.
Just can’t depend on it because budgets cut and you gotta have residual income coming
What’s the average pay for a church musician in the US? Been playing for church here in New Zealand for almost 10 years and haven’t earned anything monetary. Encouraging to hear people make money from playing in church. 💯
@@sssstarl4 hey man good question! Average it’s tough to say because that number could look very different depending on where you live in the states but on a typical Sunday I’ve heard of musicians making anywhere from $100-1,200 on a Sunday morning. Again it’s a very broad range and a lot of factors determine how much you can make.
The statement 7:31 is totally right
Before people comment they should review their skills before comparing themselves to someone else who actually practises and has a lot to offer a church/customer
I played the piano at church for years, when I was growing up. I would never imagine accepting any money for that. It was my praise offering, my way to worship. I don’t believe anyone should be paid for church work.
Doesn't sound like you played at your church professionally. Just a volunteer.
Where as if they were to get professional musicians, they should pay them.
Nehemiah 13:11-19 The churches that don't pay their musicians are thieves and robbers and deserve to be rebuked by God and lose their musicians.
Music is nothing short of labor especially as a band and they should be given their portion accordingly.
@@Eric-dd8bk I don’t get any such interpretation from the verses you listed. I don’t believe in making the church a business opportunity.
@@crjetpilot I guess you don't know that the Levites were dedicated musicians to play praise music at the temple.
Also, rest of the servers in the temple all got their portions from the offerings of the people, so did the Levites.
The churches that don't pay their musicians that are professionally trained are basically robbing them and the lord isn't pleased with them.
They are basically modern day Levites and churches aren't treating them as so. So don't go bad mouthing the musicians when they leave your church cuz yall are basically robbing them.
@@crjetpilot
Yet priests and pastors live in opulance.
I quit playing in church because it was entertainment and not worship.
Hmmm....
Huh??
I’m still kind of lost on this movement. If it’s something God told you, I respect it, validly understand, and agree. If it’s burnout, I validly understand and agree. I watched his video and he seems like he made the decision just off of churches not paying enough in offering life issuance and medical benefits over all, which I also understand, but why not continuing playing in the church just as extra income? Majority of the time, it’s only on Sunday. You have Monday to Saturday to work a better paying job.
Some people are real musicians and live off music completely and they play for anyone who hires them.
I know a few ppl that are set up to retire nicely when the time comes
VA is no joke these days....forget about the immediate DMV, ...it's worse....😢
I believe other than the pastor all the other positions at church are voluntary and any money received is a blessing if a musician wants to make a living playing music then choose another outlet join a band or a become session musician the church will be fine without you play for God not for money
The statement that you've just made is totally contradictory to the Bible. God does not share that belief. And values the music and the music creators to the point that his instructions throughout the entire old testament regarding this topic, is very clear that the music minstrels are to receive a 10th of every tithe that comes in. As well as land etc... they were to be taken care there first! And then do other things to gain increase, not the other way around.
That's what this entire argument for decades have been about and yet I hear no one refer to what the Bible specifically says. Because if they did, this wouldn't be an argument to begin with.
I get it..... But in reality, it's foolish to think there is security anywhere. This whole conversation needs to be had in the context of the economy, not just the church.
Nothing about this conversation is tied into the big picture.
If you can make a teacher's salary playing a gig, you will be fine. Just be smart with the money.
Pay attention to the WORLD, not your church. No security for nobody!!!
Church gigs are my main source of income: said no one ever..
Too many churches abuse musicians economically and the ONLY reason that it persists so often rest with how many preachers won’t stop lying about compensating musicians.
Gig or ministry?
I agree for sure do you have to have multiple streams of income especially especially in this day and age for sure keep up the great work keep up the great content definitely learning a lot
@@dpiper717 much love bro appreciate your support 💪🏽
Isaiah 26:13 speaks of other lords that ruled over God’s people - If your view of serving the church with your musical gifts as a way to peruse wealth and possessions, then you really should consider taking a step back to just engage in worship with other believers to refocus on God.
I whole heartily agree! Thats why i mentioned in the video "Being a church musician financially should not be the pinnacle of ones life" If you are blessed enough to receive income as a musician at your church praise God, but create a stream of income away from church. I hope you watched the whole video and i pray that it is not being misinterpreted.
most musicians use church gigs as a steppingstone or as a way to take care of their basic necessities. I think you're speaking to the wrong audience, here.
@@KellBailey Your video is spot on - I'm with you 100% on this, also now subscribed to your channel
It needs to be treated as extra income. I think it’s important to get some type of other skill in addition to music. I ended up getting a degree and teaching credential so that I can provide for myself and family.
IF GOD HASNT LED YOU TO MUSIC MINISTRY GET OUT AND DONT LOOK BACK! IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FULL TIME WORK IN A SMALL CHURCH YOU ARE DELUSIONAL. THOSE JOBS ARE FEW ARE FAR BETWEEN! DO IT BECAUSE YOU LOVE GOD AND HIS MUSIC…OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE PAINFULLY DISAPPOINTED ☹️!
The church shouldn’t frown at musicians that play,teach, or direct outside of the church. When I was younger i wrestled with my mother about the type of music I had to play and learn being a musician. She thought classical music was sacred and Jazz music was of the devil. Every talent or gift comes from God. If you were a lawyer would you be a church lawyer, a church doctor, a church plumber etc etc 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
We all need at least a second job. I agree
This topic is under the umbrella of financial literacy verses the mega church industry…
@@TAJMUSIC81 absolutely! Would love to have your wisdom on this topic. 💪🏽
Interesting....a lead keyboardist at a, say Joel Olsteen church would be making ?
In my opinion if you’re not living holy stop trying to play in somebodies church we don’t need the devil on the instrument
Church is not a job don't get it wrong get a job and be grateful that God gives you health every day
This culture of church "gigging" is wrong......musicians only go to church to get paid, hopping from church to church and they have forgotten to be "the church", most of them don't even sit in a service to hear the word and participate in a worship service, and that is wrong.....We are part of the church as a body first, then we use our gifts to serve the Lord and to edify others, but our identity is not based on what we do, is in who we are first, His children, his sheep.
I’m confused, who expects ANY music “gig” to pay enough to support you or provide healthcare? Gigging isn’t ever a full time job (unless your spouse has insurance).
@@SeattleSam-ul5hr you would be surprised
Jamal Hartwell, John Mike and Yaahn Hunter as well they’re changing the game!! With the plugins, courses and all that’s how you succeed as a musician that’s a great way to build a side hustle. Gospel Musicians need to expend their genre as well man…listen to some Kaytranada or something become a DJ, learn a trade until you truly master the marketing of music.
Why don’t you make a video about how you could have a full time job and still volunteer at your church? That’s the real trick. Do both! Why sacrifice completely your talents and abilities that God gave you?
Learn how to invest and trade
Church is not cardinal it is a spiritual place.. so musician who use the church as a GIG or a pay day.. are there for the MONEY. God does not need these type of musician... sick 😫
What in the world is 'multiple 6 figures'??? You make 6 figures from multiple jobs? If so, just lump it all together if it's all from playing music. "I make $346,000 a yr as a musician". Makes more sense and is just simpler to understand.
Putting a price on the gift of the holy spirit is crazy work
@@akinaroony9059 who’s doing that? The gift of the Holy Spirit is free from God?
Im saying people that want to get payed for worshiping. Im not apposed to being payed by your church, i also agree with you that it should be more of a part time. My take on it is that we are here to serve God and most importantly we as musicians should keep our selfs clean, prayed up and ready at all times to worship, Jesus will provide us with the rest.
just my opinion brother. I Love your content and im also from (Northern) VA so keep putting us on da map🙌💯💯
@@akinaroony9059unfortunately in a perfect world that sounds great. The idea that “Jesus provides us with the rest isn’t a biblical construct.
@@IWannaBeFit I mean it's in the bible that the musicians in church get paid
isnt it about God..?
@@Abandonments567 hear the heart of what I’m saying and please don’t assume anything else. The heart of what I communicated in this video is don’t look at church solely to supply your income. If you are gifted/blessed enough to be paid by church be appreciative and get a job to supply more. God should always be the center that goes without saying.