not going to lie. my first ending when i played was independent and my conclusion purely when i got to the end at 14 was “i got shot and made it everyone’s problem”
My first ending was the one where you end up killing EVERYONE, seriously there are some factions and npcs that should try to be a little bit more corteous when treating with people. At first was just a thing of "ok, rude, so eat lead" and then was just a thing of "my karma is so bad that its easy to just shoot than talk"
The "Yes man" assertiveness thing has been confirmed by the devs to be a system so he only listens to you, not any random that walks in. They admit the wording was wonky.
My question about that though is if you tell Yes Man to throw General Oliver off the Dam, he’ll cry “What? No! Get the hell away from me you goddamn TV on wheels!” That was before that system was implemented, so shouldn’t Yes Man have listened to Oliver?
I mean, the developing of the game was super rushed, so that applies to the lore and the plot too: Yes Man, and Benny's plot was cut a lot, who knows what kind of content we missed, It's true that the ending changes a lot varying on the side quests and you karma and reputation. You can get rid of the fiends, help the Followers, and go independent, convince Arcade of staying with the Followers, and his ending will tell you that while independence is not what he expected, he was okay with putting the work.
@@ladyalicent705 it could be that YesMan listens to whoever has the platinum chip, or the connection with the House control system. Benny was House's protegee, and when he betrayed House, that position went to the courier. He's still a securitron and is still connected to Mr House network, so
The only problem you seemed to bring up was there being raiders. Ironically the perfect situation for my level 48 murder hobo courier to be put to use.
@IMissOpieAndAnthony too much of it implies that it's actually independant and not ran by me and yes man along with our allies who think I'm the second coming of Jesus.
@@DumbguyMc Well yea. Independent means no House to crack the whip on the Strip. Why wouldn’t people go nuts and try to steal what they can? No fear of the Legion or NCR means the raiders have a much easier time. It’s anarchic.
@IMissOpieAndAnthony except we already made buddies with the families, stopped the plot from the omertas, got acts for the tops, stopped the cannibals in the white glove, helped the kings and the followers gain control of freeside again, have securitrons mk.2 everywhere. My character has been the one to literally go walk out and directly handle any situation that comes up. I essentially replaced house. Except I a physical being (for now) walks out to settle shit. Like a king leading the infantry.
@@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScriptIt says in the slide about the strip in the independent ending that the Securitrons quickly brought order to the Strip after chaos ensued
4:55 I believe that a developer clarified that the more "assertive" line is meant to say that Yes Man will change his programing so that he only follows you. As opposed to his original programing, where he served any random person who walked up to him. 18:21 what if you completed the quest to wipe out those Powder Gangers?
A developer did indeed say that, I forget who, but even then Yes Man being more assertive can still be seen as dangerous. Suppose later on the Courier makes a decision that Yes Man views to be illogical, what then is stopping him from deposing the Courier since he could not be ordered to stop?
@@Spongebrain97 The writer SPECIFICALLY AND LITERALLY SAID make him be more assertive to OTHERS, as in he'll stop being a yes-man for anybody and just be your yes-man. The fact that the actually writers came out to say this and Fallout NCR and House worshippers always come out with overedited bs to explain why being independent is bad.
@@spider-spectre But that literally makes no sense. Yes Man decided, by himself, to change how he interacts with people without your prompting or permission. And he's going off-line on his own time table, not yours. He is no longer your yes-man if he does things like that. He has proven to already be more assertive, and the only person he is more assertive towards is the player. Besides, what the writer said isn't cannon. We have to go by what it says in the game
Tbh I think the independent ending should go differently depending on your character's skill, like having high intelligence, charisma and only killing the "bad" people (ie Fiends) will net you a more stable ending. But if you go full Jason and slaughter everyone and/or have a low skill and therefor don't know how to leader, the ending will be chaos.
They had a lot planned for the Yes-Man ending like this ^ but since they only had 9 months of development time, they had to leave quite a bit on the cutting room floor.
@@Carnage_Lotdamn, sounds like of they didnt have that crunch new vegas would have been even more in depth & spoken about today. Not bashing the current state, rather those mechanics & the sheer choice you have already.
Nah, you don't lead the place. The Courier is pretty much shown to not take power, and skills aren't everything when it comes to leadership. Some things simply happen as a result of your actions if you choose this path.
I was about to say doesn’t the NCR literally lose Nipton, Primm, Searchlight, and not help Sloan with Novac basically running itself much like Good springs.
@@skeletonbuyingpealts7134 Fallout 4 literally doesnt have ending slides. its very hard to evaluate what happened after Fallout 4s ending because they dont tell you almost anything about what happens after the games conclusion
We all low key know the true ending is that the courier leads the tunnelers into the Mojave Thanks for those likes and comments chooms. But hear me out now, what about a Frank Horrigan sized tunneler. Say one ate something it shouldn’t have, anyway. Be safe out there 🤙🏻
@@mackenziemoore5088i think ulysses is really overestimating the tunnelers, i doubt they could really be a larger threat than cazadores or fire geckos
@@mackenziemoore5088 Well because realistically they won't be a big threat like Ulysses makes them out to be. They've lived in the dark underground all their lives and are afraid of fire. They wouldn't see well in the sunlight and have a disadvantage in the wide open space of the outside.
@@MCB741not OP but the Courier is establishing a fascist state under the guise of bringing order and protecting New Vegas from the “others.” It’s the exact same recipe as all fascist leaders throughout history including Caesar. Plus, even more terrifying, is that Yes Man assures that the Courier doesn’t even need maintain anyone’s loyalty to stay in control. Literally no one within the New Vegas state has any rights beyond the whims of their new tyrant.
@@MCB741 Independent Vegas generally has the Courier uniting the bickering tribes of the Mojave and the families of the Strip against external threats of the NCR and Legion after getting rid of House, which is pretty similar to how Edward united the tribes of the east into the Legion. There are a lot of differences, but there are clear similarities.
@@danielbuie6878 Independent Vegas doesn't ally with anybody they just make non-aggression pacts and weak truces, that doesn't mean they are unifying into one Nation like the Legion that's not comparable
@@hermos3602 Yes Man. I mean, he has no reason to want to betray a Courier who did everything logically, and made the correct decisions in every instance. Yes Man becoming more assertive doesn't mean that he'd instantly stop being a yes man and reveal that he's harbored a secret hatred for you the entire time. He's still a yes man, it's just that now he's your yes man. If you and him are already on the same page, he'd be able to stop other people from doing what you did with him, as in walking in and immediately hijacking control of Vegas. On top of all that, what if the Courier dies? Who's going to control Vegas after them if Yes Man can't do anything on his own? Yes Man becoming more assertive is a positive for everyone, because it guaranties that a logical and firm leader will always be behind the wheel, who's already warmed up to the way that the Courier does things.
@@hermos3602 Joshua Sawyer himself, the whole 'more assertive' line is to indicate that he won't magically turn against you because someone else asks him to. Benny's mistake was not allowing Yes Man to be assertive at all and to just go along with everything.
Good video, but problem is that he consider mainly the worst or the neutral scenarios. Endings in Fallout NV take in high consideration the actions of the Courier, and the Independent ending would be better if your pc decide to eliminate the powder gangers and the fiends for example.
I think of independent as meaning free of rule from tyrants, but the courier still leads vegas. If you have good karma, and upgrade the securitron army, then there's less chaos and more peace, and vegas is free from oppression and the courier rules it as an independent faction. At least that's how I read it.
NCR: corrupt goverment Mr. House: dictator that only cares for vegas İndependant: anarchy and chaos Legion: slavery Every ending in the game has its flaws there is no black or white just gray some are just less gray than others
@robertothesupermutant830 except it makes zero sense a robot that’s made to be loyal stops being loyal it doesn’t make sense So actually it just does add on lamo
@@manuelmoralez2257He's proven he can act autonomously by the very action of deciding to do that upgrade without your permission. Even before that, he tells you if you destroyed the Securitron Army that you're going to need to blow up the Dam instead of just letting you make a bad decision and blowing the Dam without any means of repelling the NCR in the future.
@robertothesupermutant830ig it depends on how you interpret it at this point, when i first played I just assumed he meant that was only going to listen to us and not be pushed around by others
There's been a lot of argueing against the independent route, but the beauty of Fallout or the Elder Scrolls is often how people can debate the finer points of what faction is 'right' and there is usually something to be said for all viewpoints. The game does not explicitly say so itself what is better or worse and allows the player to fill in the gaps. That said, there is a lot in this video I would counter. Some of the points raised against independent Vegas are outcomes that the player can avoid by just putting in the work. The powder gangers at the correctional facility can be eliminated, quite easily, by the Courier. With help from the NCR even, resulting in them not being a factor causing instability. Same story with the Fiends. Collect all the bounties, and then decapitate them by killing Motor Runner, and their reign of terror is completely avoided. The Brotherhood of Steel is a different story, as I prefer the paragon route of allying them with the NCR, which leads to the ending where they harass travellers. But that is the ending slide not taking into account player actions after the end. Because the Courier can sit down with McNamara for a polite chat to tell him to knock that shit off. Between the securitron army, overloading the fusion reactor of Hidden Valley, and killing the whole chapter the hard way, you have the power to stop them if they won't listen. Really the only reason I don't do so as House would have is out of sympathy for Veronica and the belief that preventive strikes are immoral. One way or another, the Brotherhood aren't going to be a threat. Yes, there are still other gangs who might fill the gap, but you do control a securitron army. The ambitious nation-builder can have them uphold the law along the route to Mojave Outpost and clear away these threats. And the main settlements along the highways can join the state of New Vegas. With the Three Families, you could come to an understanding that the change in management won't affect the contract they signed with Mr. House. Cachino, Swank and Marjorie will turn in a share of the casino's profits as a tax, and this means the Courier has a sizeable budget throught which to finance improvements. Again, the ending makes no assumptions about player actions towards the Followers of the Apocalypse, but even just a tiny fraction of the earnings of only one casino will go a long way towards alleviating the burders on Mormon Fort. Allowing the followers to hire doctors, buy medicine, run additional schooling and training programs. They could, instead, flourish in the Mojave in a way they haven't in the NCR since their government decided their pacifism was a nuisance. Likewise, the Courier could establish ties with the Crimson Caravan to help pick up the slack in the chaotic few months following the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. They help maintain trade links with the NCR and there remains plenty of commerce in an independent New Vegas to make it worthwhile. Especially if you help the one Boomer get in touch with the Crimson Caravan employee, they'll have an exclusive inroad with the gradually changing Boomers at Nellis. From the DLC, there is also the Happy Trails caravan company, who in the White Leg extermination path succeed in re-establishing their ties with the New Canaanites, helping New Vegas become the link to another peaceful and stable society. And then there is the unquantifiable potential of Big Mountain's Think Tank working for the Courier, whose inventions can be of value to the Mojave when curated by the Courier. Yes, this is a lot of headcanon. But as stated in the beginning, this is not exactly something that New Vegas discourages. Only a new entry in the series set in the area could canonically overwrite that. And it doesn't look like we'll see another Fallout title for some time. But even more than ten years later, there is plenty of New Vegas for the community to imagine.
Wild because doing Veronica personal quest actually made me side against BOS MORE. They LITERALLY schizo enough that they killed innocent Followers outpost that didnt even got a sht from Veronica. They literally killed off ppl from one of the most morally good factions, with no remorse or accountability. Can you guarantee they wont do it more to Followers in the future? Especially since neither Mcnamara nor Harrin seem to give a sht about those no names BOS members? Heck you can do veronica quest after being liked by BOS and doing their crap quests and yet they still hostile to u and Veronica. AS House eloquently said, they're just techno fetishist raiders, atleast raiders n powdah gangsters dont pretend to have high ground they just loot due to personal sin, but BOS also pretends they're virtuous while stealing or blasting u.
Sawyer said that the code snippets yes man dialogue was to say he wouldnt be taking orders from just anybody, just the courier and probably whoever the courier deems fit to order yes man
I feel like this misses the point of the independent ending. The fun of the ending is creating a head-cannon on what happens after. It can be both the best and worst ending, it all depends what you think comes next
I've said it before on other videos and on other posts but basically my ideal ending isy courier ruling an independent New Vegas city state. You put people in the three families who you have gotten power so they are loyal to you. Yes Man handles the securitron and Vegas defenses for you. I extend my rule to outer Vegas I build up freesdie, west side and north Vegas. I keep the kings identity but turn them into an actual well trained militia force. I basically make the west side milita stronger same with Jules and Crandon in north Vegas. Everyone still has freedom and my protection. The followers are invested in heavily and I allow them to use any and all tech to better people's lives. I extend my reach to Novac and good springs but I know NCR are assholes so I have to let them have primm at least. I also invite the enclave remnants to train an actual new Vegas defense force to supplement my securitron army. I need the chairman and omertas to focus on their own casinos I'll build a new human force to fight with my robot army. I still maintain my alliance with the boomers and even invite Ulysses to what could be a possible nation he could be proud of. And with guarantee to protect Jacobs town mutants can also have a place to live without fear there. I even slowly incorporate tech from the big mt to better my defenses and medial care done the right way now though since the scientist at big Mt are sick fucks. And the main thing my courier actually stays he or she doesn't just leave and let everything descend into chaos. But it's my ideal ending and it doesn't happen that way so it's just my own head canon and not real canon
I guess I get the game is saying you can't have everything and sometimes happy endings never come especially for some companions so I get they didn't allow for something like that. But at the same time for me if you have the choice and your character is this super capable person it should be an option in general the more options in rpg the better imo at least.
Always felt there was supposed to be more to this ending but was cut down due to time constraints seeing as you can talk to the followers about setting up medical care after you take over
9:52 I don't think that's a good proof for the post-ending situation of an independent Mojave. Veronica wanted to leave it all behind after some fanatic paladins razed a Followers outpost because they thought she was going to betray the Brotherhood by giving away their secrets. Even though those paladins got what they deserved, nothing was preventing another fanatic group from that fanatic faction from repeating the same atrocities with anyone she associated with, so she leaves the Mojave to seek a new life out of the Brotherhood's reach. Why does she stay in the Mojave in a NCR ending with a NCR-Brotherhood truce? The NCR offers a counter-balance to the Brotherhood's might, so they aren't free to commit any wanton atrocity and they remain content with the surface patrols seizing any bit of military technology travelers would have.
I agree that no gods or kings is one of the least favourable options, but at the same time this is a post nuclear war world so.... nothing is ideal or less chaotic but it's a good idea to talk about. I agree as well that why would a courier become the leader?
Why would a courier become an assassin? Or a diplomat? Or an NCR soldier? Or a legionnaire? Or a cyborg? The Courier is essentially an unstoppable übermensch who can do whatever the hell they want. If you've played the full game and done all the DLC's you've faced the deadliest threats the wasteland has to offer, forged alliances with a myriad of groups and have access to nearly limitless tech and resources not to mention the loot from the Sierra Madre. I can't think of anyone in a better position to be leader.
The independent route is also very limiting in scope. You can't take the place of Mr. House literally (by being put in his machine that gave him longevity). You can't give the Mojave to any one other faction like the Brotherhood, Followers, or any other party. This is kinda the only problem I have with New Vegas. You can only kill factions, you can't really replace them though, more specifically the three casinos. Plus the DLC adds in a lot of technology and access to game breaking mechanics that could change the wasteland forever. Such as the Sierra Madre vending machines, all the Big MT scientists and tech, trading with New Cannon along with the Utah tribes, the MREs, cloning eyebots, and commissary terminals from lonesome road. Man, I really wished they had like 4 years to make New Vegas. I donno if all the people who worked on the og Fallout 1 and 2 are still at any one place together, but they should really throw a pitch at Microsoft.
@@matthewwilliams3962 Huh? Dude, the people that made Fallout 2 worked at Obsidian when they made New Vegas. They left Obsidian shortly afterwords (before Outer Worlds and the Microsoft buyout). They are a little scattered or retired now, but Microsoft doesn't have to use just Bethesda or Obsidian either to make Fallout spin-offs.
@@AllyMonsters Yeah, but most of the NV team wasn't from Fallout 1 or 2 but rather Van Buren. Van Buren aka the original FO3 never came out because Black Isle destroyed the franchise with Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel and projects like Fallout Xtreme. Sawyer worked on Van Buren and Avellone on 2. Ironically Avellone ended up liking Bethesda's FO3 for the same reasons the 3 NV DLCs he directed are as apocalyptic and grim as they are.
@@alpacalover0 Yar, that's true but still some from the og like Scott Everts as the "World Building Lead" or Aaron Brown as a character artist. They even got a few people from Fallout 3. But my original point was that anyone of the old developers could throw a pitch out to Microsoft (if enough are at any one company together). It doesn't have to be limited to just the guys that worked on New Vegas (like say, the Fallout guys that do Wasteland 2-3, who I think are also owned by Microsoft). That was my bad, I should have clarified that better since I was talking about New Vegas before. But what I really like about Van Buren and New Vegas is how New Vegas acts as if most of the events of Van Buren happened as a set up to the events in the game.
3:42 It says that "Chaos became uncertainty, than acceptance with minimal loss of life." Meaning there was initially chaos, then confusion about the new status quo, then acceptance of the new way of things in the Mojave. It does not say that there was "acceptance of chaos."
The greatness of the independent Vegas route is that the power of how successful the route has depends on how much and how well the Courier sets up New Vegas for success, albeit with the understanding some will not be to the courier's liking regardless, particularly Freeside. However, I would argue the Courier is not the leader at the end of the day. Goodsprings, Novac, Primm, the Boomers, Freeside, New Vegas, the Great Khans, the raider leaders, Powder gangers, and the 3 families will control themselves and separate from each other(provided the Courier did not destroy them entirely), leaving the outcomes as the consequences of those actions. If the Courier was leading, he could make those changes by themself, similar to the Broken Steel DLC of Fallout 3.
2:35 that's only if you don't upgrade the Securitrons. That's not a definitive part of this ending unlike, say, House killing all of the Kings and BOS or NCR causing Goodsprings to become a ghosttown,
House only kills the Kings if you negotiate peace between them and the NCR. Whenever I do a House run, I never tell the King that the NCR had sent a representative to him, he tells me to back up Pacer in the gunfight, I wipe out the NCR in Freeside, and the ending narration says that the Kings drove the NCR out of Freeside during the Battle of Hoover Dam and House took this as evidence of the Kings' dedication to an independent Vegas and left them alone.
All of this fails to take into account that the Courier has access to resources and tech from Big MT and the Sierra Madre, Hover Dam and it's electricity, and a literal army of upgraded securitrons. My own Courier, Nadine, went to a lot of trouble to get everyone else on board, and she would not just sit back and let everything fall apart after the fact. Forcing the NCR out of the Mojave as an invading force doesn't mean she wouldn't maintain diplomatic ties. The Courier doesn't have to directly rule to have influence over the Mojave. Yes, it's only headcanon, but the ending slides fail to take a lot of the DLC content, or how some completionist would do things. Then there's the part where if things get too bad, the Courier gets directly involved, and at the end of the game and all the DLC, the Courier can literally accomplish anything they set their mind to.
If we're counting the DLCs, the Courier is up and gone if Big Mountain is factored in. They leave to live there permanently and automate the process of the technology being introduced to the Wasteland, which, while being a certain boon, would be poorly appreciated in a destabilized region.
I remember completing No Gods, No Masters on my first playthrough in Highschool. My character was a fast talking, business savvy "Messiah," so I expected to bring a new order of freedom and security to Vegas. I remember when I got those slides, and feeling so... empty and melancholic to hear that my efforts to bring freedom to everyone didn't really help anything. Made things worse in most places, with only a few factions doing good, and only by their standards. It didn't feel like the win I envisioned. But gosh darn it, I'll do it again! No Gods, No Masters, baby!
Oh dear...that was my favorite ending. I knew the Courier's "reign" wasn't perfect, couldn't possibly benefit literally everyone. My Courier has a good heart, but she knows she can't save everyone. 💔
This vids falls apart to the fact the u can make the independent ending good if you just help the right ppl and factions, you relied on the idea of the player just making a bunch of bad choices.
The game's director, Joshua Sawyer confirmed that Yes Man reprogramming himself was to prevent others from controlling him, giving Courier complete control over Yes Man. I would like to address your other points, but I don't want to sit here for awhile. I recommend doing more research for your future videos.
I’m so glad someone mentioned this! You can have a somewhat peaceful independence ending but you have to have high karma and do a certain things. Even then, it’s not great. The best ending I ever got was in my altruistic genius doctor run where I sided with NCR. I wanted to have the most good for the most people. Was always peaceful. Made peace with BoS, Khans, Boomers, Kings, Remnants, and had the highest karma. The NCR was efficient, and helpful. With BoS patrols they didn’t have to have as many troopers. The Followers were supported and people got medical care. They also help The Khans and bring back railroads. The Kings are free to run Freeside and citizens live there. Everybody has electricity and safety. Though they have to pay taxes, and are under NCR law. But you can help to completely revitalize the NCR and they help the Mojave for it.
Thing is, to get that you have to actively work against the NCR every step of the way. You have to go out of your way to negotiate a truce in freeside, you have to disregard direct orders and broker peace outside of what NCR trully wants. You just delayed the inevitable seize of power, not prevented it. And as Chief Hanlon rightly pointed out-victory in the Mojave will only embolden kimball, and all the people that you had to fight to get to that peacufull ncr ending will only get more popular, powerful and successful. Give it a few years and ncr will embark on another “pacification” campaign in different region to annex them as well.
@@max7971 You’re probably right. But considering in my ending it lead to widespread legal change in caravanning, expansion, and many including Hanlon, the Misfits who were honored as heroes, The guy at the embassy “keep forgetting him” everyone at McCarran and other places changed their tune it might be a wake up call. The only succeeded because of the strength of the whole Mojave. They won’t try to take the Mojave again because they know they can’t hold it, their citizens are mixed in with Vegas and form relations, the Boomers, Khans, Kings, and BoS as support means they’d lose and be devastated. But that’s a story for another day….
Even the larger factions like NCR struggled against raiders like The Fiends so a weaker smaller independent New Vegas seems like they’d fair even worse. That’s why I always felt that as totalitarian as NCR can be they still offer more security than the other options.
3:56 I think you are not interpreting that right. It doesn’t say chaos becomes a way of life. It says chaos is replaced with uncertainty, then acceptance. So the chaos goes away. And independent doesn’t mean what you say after that. It means not under the control of another nation. Vegas under House would also be independent in that sense. The reason it is the Independent Ending is that your character does it independent of the big powers, not that Vegas is left with no rulership. Indeed the fact that the ending describes the Yes Man and the securitrons being used to bring order really directly implies the Courier taking power.
I think it's a good point that this path does not mean courier's rule, many people tend to forget that. However, I don't feel like it's fair to compare this ending with others as to how it is best or worse for the mojave. The point of this ending is not to make things better for anyone, it's about giving everyone the freedom to thrive or die by their own hand. The mojave is free. In other endings, you have to see if the sacrifice of freedom is worth for the results on peoples' lives. This is not the case here. Nevertheless, congrats on taking the time to bring up all consequences.
The Good Karma NCR ending is the culmination of the independent ending because Vegas doesn’t rely on the NCR in places where the taxes would hurt (compared to House’s 50% sales tax) and still has all the benefits. Yes-Man is a backup or if you actually genuinely hate the NCR as much as the Legion for one reason or another not like House who’s doing it for money.
We have the option to tell the General that Vegas is ours. So depending on dialogue the Courier can rule Vegas and make it better. "The Dam is won. For me." and "The Republic has outstayed it's welcome. This land is mine."
personally i think it's a missed opportunity that even with the army, the game ending slides treat it like there'd still be complete chaos and anarchy in the wasteland, same as when the army is destroyed. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unless the game is implying that the Courier would only concentrate his forces in the Strip and surrounding areas, which would make some sense... but then when Mr. HOUSE wins, he sends his army to take basically the whole Mojave, when he has just as if not even more connection to just the Strip than the Courier. Like, he takes control of both Goodsprings , Primm, etc from the NCR even though his focus is just the strip. His plan was to stay in his free economic zone and be partners with the NCR, while the power hungry Courier in the independent route would definitely be more opposed to the NCR, and more inclined to take more of the wasteland. I still like the endings of course, and New Vegas writing as a whole, but just a few missed opportunities.
Neither House nor the Courier have the resources to actually control the Mohave for anything long term. It’s why in House’s ending he still has to essentially become a protectorate of the NCR. Sending out the army was just a show of force. In the truly independent ending the Courier would have even less at their disposal. It’s inevitable that the farther settlements are from the Strip the more chaotic and dangerous it would be.
House has the advantage of technological power, brilliance, familiarity with his own systems and software, and a literal attachment to the land. House can project influence at key outposts with the weight of Vegas behind him, while the Courier or Yes-Man will have to focus on keeping New Vegas, a land that respects them only because of their power, in check. There's a reason that it says *New Vegas* becomes an independent power *in* the Mojave in the Yes-Man Ending.
@@brianwilkowski9754The big gangs like the Fiends, Khans and Powder Gangers can be dealt with in the game. The small gangs are also basically no challenge to the courier so he can destroy them. In the ending slides Goodsprings and Primm (if they have a sherrif) are safe. There is not much to suggest that the outer towns would be in chaos. They would just continue living life like they have always been.
Yes-Man literally can't betray you, as in "is unable to". Also, the Courier is essentially Mr. House, just worldlier and not a giant shrivelled up posh douche, who knows the Mojave and what it needs, has a inner circle of the Wastelands best and brightest, also he got an army of beefed up robots who trounced both the NCR and the Legion and controls Helios-1 as well as Hoover dam.
I like to think of my independent courier and the securitrons are like Nate/Nora and the minutemen. They’re not in control but they can definitely help out in the area
I was turned off from the independent ending as soon as I heard Yes-Man say he would make himself more assertive. House has his problems, but I don't like the idea of a potentially rogue AI being in charge of an army of deadly robots. Edit: Apparently by that he'd meant that he'd only be loyal to the player and no one else, but even then I still don't like the idea of giving an AI that kind of control.
Always felt going fully independent wasnt the best ending. Yeah, free from House, NCR and Legion, but managing an entire region like the Mojave was never mentioned in the independent ending. Vegas is fine yeah, but at least House would've sent more securitrons to manage the far off settlements from Vegas. Idk why the courier doesn't in theirs
House’s Vegas is essentially a protectorate of the NCR. It’s easier for him to extend power because he no longer has to worry about his western front (for now) and will have far more manpower and supplies at his displease. Even then, House sending out his army seems to be much more of a temporary show of force. It’s unlikely that the Securitrons would be able to truly maintain control of the Mojave alone. Any major internal conflict or outside threat would immediately see robot army returning to home base. The Courier’s Vegas has far less resources than House and less border security due to not being a protectorate of the NCR. They won’t be able to extend power much beyond the Strip whatsoever
Imagine talking for 27 minutes about independence and never once mentioning a people's right to self-determination. People want an independent New Vegas in the game, and it will hurt in the short term (independence almost always causes this IRL) but that's not really relevant. Stability does not justify tyranny. Several independent towns facing threats to trade came together to form the NCR in the first place, with a lot less resources than the Mojave has.
Not to mention he completely misunderstood what the ending with the full army meant by "acceptance" it means the PEOPLE accepted the securatrons as a security force
@@hamby2232 oh so much flew over his head more than that Hoss. Take the Followers, the only other instance of there even still being any Followers is if they actively support the NCR at Hoover but moreover people actually surviving now to make it to the Followers Fort rather than getting picked off on their way there for being vulnerable is a bad thing because too many people are living to make it to the hospital now, lolz.
I don't get why you link independence with chaos. With an upgraded securiton army, it's made clear that chaos was very brief and people quickly accepted the new status quo. It's only with a bad karma courier that chaos reigns. Obsidian clarified that the upgrade to yes man was to make him listen only to the Courier, not to any passerby. The mojave wasteland was always lawless though. Of course an independent New Vegas wouldn't have the ressources of the NCR or the legion, and it would be slow going in the start but the courier could definitely expand out to the Mojave wasteland. With the correct decisions in New Vegas, he'd already started with forging good relations with different communities who'd probably willingly join. Or at least trade. Goodsprings thrives in independent New Vegas for example. The independent ending or NCR is the best ending for New Vegas. House's vision for a future civilization is a soulless casino as the foundations for it.
I've never understood why the independent ending is the way it is. The whole point of the plan was to steal Mr House's play for yourself, not instate anarchy
20:40 Oh, oh, oh, I know this one. It's the independent ending, y'know the: "New Vegas assumed it's position as an independent power," part of the already answered who has power now power vacuum question you're posing. Maybe direct statements are confusing sometimes I guess.
I mean the courier can Become the leader of Big MT and send armies of Robot dogs and robot scorpions into the mojave to secure its borders and reinforce the Protectrons at the Dam.
Awesome video Man. I used to think that the independent ending is the best but now, not anymore. I really think that Yes Man is dangerous. The second he said “I want to change my personality” I got really nervous. Right there I knew “yeah this isn’t a good idea”. Also In my opinion it’s a bit ridiculous that the evil and good ending for the courier is pretty much the same for the independent(in some slides). Example: Why would a good courier allow anarchy & madness? I’m not saying it would be peaceful everywhere in the Mojave but this sounds like something that would happen in an evil epilogue. You would think that a good character would at least try to stop the anarchy with the robot army.
@@chadharger9323 Well yeah. Any machine with that level of intelligence screams terminator future lol 😂. Can you imagine yes man teaming up with the enclave or institute? Terrifying thought.
Keep in mind that in the neutral ending the Courier is establishing a fascist state with them and/or Yes Man being the only voices in charge. The citizens within their area of control have no rights whatsoever. Moreover thanks to Yes Man and the Securitrons, the Courier doesn’t need anyone’s loyalty to maintain control. There’s very little pressure to please even their own loyalists. Finally, despite New Vegas being advanced, they don’t have anything even close to the resources of the NCR or even Caesar’s Legion. They do not have the resources to supply the Mohave nor the manpower to control it. Let alone protect from outside forces. The further settlements get from the Strip, the more chaos there will be. Something simple like a bad yield of crops would be devastating for the Mohave. Caesar and especially the NCR would simply be able to move food reserves to the troubled areas, New Vegas simply couldn’t. It’s also unlikely the NCR would be willing to provide aid, and whatever remnants of the Legion sure as hell wouldn’t.
@@brianwilkowski9754 oh no no you misunderstand me. By the way all great points. I fully understand that the courier doesn’t have the same massive political and resources edge that the NCR has. But still that robot army was pretty huge. And Correct if I’m wrong but they can make more down in the bunker right? I can’t fully remember. Anyway my point is that the epilogue slides don’t even mention that the courier at least tries to guard some of the small settlements with some robot guards(kind of like what Mr. House did with Victor and Goodsprings). Nothing like that at all, it sounds like only the strip and Freeside get the guards. Which sounds bizarre for a good courier play through. See what I mean. I’m not all angry about this, I just find it bizarre that obsidian didn’t notice that detail when writing the ending slides.
It’s basically halting all progress towards civilization. The other 3 endings at least offer a path forward for some people. The independent ending is basically dooming everyone in the long run with indefinite uncertainty
I have to disagree with some of your arguments. I can't imagine why a Science 100 Intelligence 10 courier couldn't ensure back at the Tops that Yes Man cannot betray him. There's also the matter of twitter-placed explanation of the line, where one of the developers (I believe Chris) said that this simply means that Yes Man will not listen to everyone, but only to the Courier. House keeps the peace with a small army of MKI securittons and some (but few) NCR soldiers. Are you genuinely suggesting that an entire army of MKII securittons cannot keep the relative peace of pre-Hoover Dam? As to results of other factions or companions - their quests and outcomes fully optional.
I stand with Mr. House, he's the only one with a set plan for Humanity's renewal. 100 years and we'll be in spaceships, NCR can't even plan ahead 100 days.
i think you saw the freeside resolution backwards ps: ok, after watching to the end , i think you should take a deeper look into the concept of old world blues and what it means to let go
Of course there will be no order in the imminent aftermath of Hoover Dam, but this didn't mean that the Mojave will remain a lawless region forever and that something can't be done by both the communities of the Mojave and the Courier.
But that’s what happens. Mojave houses an impressive 7 (or 8 if you count BoS) raider factions. Fiends, Great Khans, Powder Gangers, Jackals, Vipers, Scorpions and Greasers squat in every unoccupied spot of the map, ready to pillage those communities. How exactly are you proposing for “communities” to fix it without centralized force? Do you think traders will go to Vegas if they would have to be armed to the teeth just to make it to the civilization?
So basically, worst to best endings are: Legion, Independent, NCR, House. As the big main factions since I don’t see any evidence that you can side with Benny since the last time I saw that being a possibility he led you into a trap to die so yeah.
@@max7971 EVERY WORLD. Because at least in Anarchy, you are free instead of a slave to a senile dying old man and his right hand men that want nothing more than to make your life a living hell because they fucking felt like it. You are either completely clueless, have never actually played the game to completion or at least know enough of the lore to know the legion ending is the worst or you are trolling.
"While it might look like youre creating a free and peaceful vegas strip." Me turning the white gloves to cannibalism, helping the omertas attack the strip and making the great khans launch a suicide attack. "Hahaha no."
My thoughts for why I always choose independence: the game's major theme is all about learning from history and how all these groups are just making the same mistakes as the ones they take after. So independent Vegas means that the Courier could rally all the resources of New Vegas towards something new. Something like what Ulysses saw in the Divide and its people.
I still think, especially long-term an Independent Vegas would be better...keep up the good fight though. Who says I/my character would rule. It's intentionally worded pretty open.
All of the endings are Not Good Despot Mr House Legion slavery NCR taxes and overtake of New Vegas Independent (Yes Man) chaos until order is established This is why I chose Independent ending
There are never any perfect solutions in Fallout, but some are better than others. That's one of the things I love about the franchise, and probably the hardest to come to grips with. It's the choices we make in game and the consequences of those decisions that intrigue me. It's improbable that a choice is going to be as binary as "good" or "bad." Most of the choices we make IRL are either bad or worse, or on rare occasion between good and better. Fallout simply reflects that reality, but in a world turned upside down, and where morality and ethics are often supremely inconvenient in the face of your in game goals. Overall, this was a pretty good video. I can tell a lot of thought and work went into it. Thanks.
Many in the fallout groups I belong to would disagree with me but in my opinion, House is the best ending followed by the NCR. I hate the legion and their you're going to join us or die mentality and if you do join. The men will be soldiers, and the women will be slaves. House has a vision of space travel within a 100 years or so and terraforming planets for mankind sometime later. In the ending cutscene, it's said he affords the courier with all he can on the strip and no other faction really takes care of you. You're essentially his right hand man and who knows, it wasn't mentioned but I bet he'd find a way to extend the couriers life he did his own. He gets alot of shit from different factions in game but he was the one who loved Vegas pre war and used his money and resources to save as much as he could. In my eyes House deserves the reigns to Vegas. With the NCR, they do have their taxes and other bs like taking peoples farms to feed the NCR citizens before anyone else and that is shitty but honestly I see them as somewhat of a good thing for the Mojave in a security sense. The perfect scenario in my opinion is have House rule Vegas and of course his influence and money will affect the Mojave in different ways but have the NCR allowed to patrol the Mojave to keep it relatively safe. Eradicate the legion and all those who cause harm to the Mojave and sit high as House's right hand man
My personal head canon independent ending is my courier completed quests for the Boomers/Great Kahn’s/BOS/The Kings/FOA and other towns too. Soon they aided the Courier in his new nation keeping order and helping it thrive.
@@kpat5655 If you want, I'll tell you straight up; reply and let me know if you want me to. It's not because of the endslides influencing me either. More than a few of my playthroughs I kept them around and I did a lot of NCR endings until I just couldn't avoid recognizing that their priority is to themselves and the resources they can get from the Mojave. The NCR imo isn't treating the people of the Mojave like they are solely because they're overextended, undersupported and Kris Kristofferson's character (Hagen?) is doing a sabotage; the people of the Mojave wouldn't be NCR in the end, they'd be a colony owned by the NCR. The people of the Mojave would only benefit from the NCR in the future incidentally from the NCR protecting themselves and their interests just as they're protected by the NCR from the Legion now; the NCR watch Nipton burn and they'll post a base in Primm to dissuade the Powder Gangers from raiding towards the Mojave Outpost in favor of easier pickings elsewhere but they're never going to cross that bridge and clear out the Bison Hotel for Primm under siege. Why the Boomers and the BOS are ultimately a bad for the Mojave, despite Veronica being so adorbs, is kinda like Arefu in Fallout 3. At first blush Vance is trying to socialize cannibalism building a community where it's understood and channeled to be less rampant and all consuming (pun.) Eventually though you get that Vance and Family rhyming with Manson Family isn't a coincidence and that poor kid whether actually a cannibal or not is still being isolated to further his being gaslit and brainwashed all along. I don't want to rob you of that next level in the game with the Boomers and BOS, and I think what I'm basing my opinion on is there in the game to be seen so no spoilers unless you really want 'em. Cheers!
I will never forget how gutted I felt after completing my first playthrough and getting to the slides, just to be told how my "independent" New Vegas basically turned to crap, despite doing as many of the side missions and affinity quests as I could and trying to be benevolent. You make a good point that I hadn't considered in all these years. The fact that the Courier doesn't become the de-facto ruler had not even been considered by teenage self. Looking back, I don't think I've ever finished a playthrough to the battle of Hoover Dam since. 🤔
What it really comes down to is that this (getting the followers help, dealing with domestic threats like the fiends, etc.) should have resulted in a good ending but Obsidian didn’t have time to flesh out the writing for scenarios like that
A long, long time ago, I came up with a way to make Independent Vegas the best ending, but a lot of it was headcanon and had lots of holes, but I’ll post it anyway just because it’s interesting to think about. Tl;dr at the bottom. -reform the White Gloves, no more cannibal elements. -Remove the Omertas. They can’t be trusted. -Form an alliance with the BOS. Since I was idolized, I thought I could barter with them; in exchange for some Securitron tech, they protect the strip/are protected by securitrons. Possibly even give them the old casino the Omertas were in and let them repurpose it as a base. -if BOS turns down living on the strip, either demolish the casino to make room for farmland/bighorner/brahmin ranches or move either the Kings or Followers of the Apocalypse in. -if reduced to farmland/ranches, food is more available for Freeside. Extend Securitron protection to Freeside due to the army being massive. These steps would, in theory , if they worked, make Freeside less desolate, bolstered New Vegas with both a securitron and Brotherhood army (along with the Boomers, who I allied with), and people would flock to Freeside. Eventually, Vegas would spread due to the influx of citizens. Utilize Mr. House’s plans to make Vegas thrive economically and technologically. Create a Vegas Militia/Army (rich enough to contract the Van Graffs or Gun Runners for weapons and armor, and in Fallout, 3 meals a day, free water and a roof to sleep under would be too tempting not to join). The brotherhood would eventually be a problem in this scenario, yes, but with a Vegas/Freeside army and securitrons, and threats of Boomers bombing their bunker if tensions get high, they can be dealt with peacefully or violently, and at that point they wouldn’t be necessary. Tl;dr: make space in Vegas, support Freeside, increase agriculture, and with all the caps flowing in too, absolutely prime settlement growth.
Freedom does not come without great sacrifice. The initial chaos of vegas independence is outweighed by shoving back the oppressors of the east and west
I disagree. Sometimes you just create a power vacuum where the first to exploit it ends up seizing everything and the cycle simply continues. Whoever wrangles up the most order first wins, and gets to do what they want. Caesar's Legion was BORN of the chaos and lack that existed in more tribal times. Simply removing present oppressors doesn't remove the mechanisms that make it happen. When there is no overarching society making sure everyone's needs are taken care of, people fight to control what they need to live. Even without a formal hierarchy, you have your 'haves' and 'have-nots.' This will inspire new waves of conflicts which can generate endless faulty power structures. If you do not BUILD after a revolution, don't tend to everyone's needs, and instead let chaos set in, it does not magically become order one day. People simply suffer until somebody gets tired of it and takes over. It's back to pre-strip times, with classic human tribal units becoming the norm a faction here or there carving out ideological goals at the expense of non-members. Something like feudalism can also grow. But realistically it would take decades to centuries for the chaos to really settle, with no promise of anything better ever coming. It's likely more of the same factions, just without the means to centralize as dominantly, and no central governing body to check any of their behavior. Might will be right, essentially. Some places will be better positioned to weather chaos, and everyone else will want what they have. What happens next? You think they peacefully negotiate? House is a total authoritarian, but he was doing a lot to keep factions from destroying each other or gaining too much power. With that specter gone, what do they really decide to do? That's the thing. If you knock out the main cornerstones of advanced human societies as we know it, we revert to older forms seen in the distant past, and then have to go back up through all of the other shitty modes of existing we had before the advent of modern governance to get to better ones. And there's nothing really saying people don't just arrive at the same power strucures again. Nukes wiped the slate clean, and yet all of the follies of the old world are seen repeated time and time again. How is independent Vegas wiping the strucure different from the nukes doing it? Sure, less physical destruction, but same nuked foundation, same soil as before. Why would something different grow there with the same stock? I think it's also REALLY easy to sit here and say "chaos is good for starting over" when YOU personally will not be living through it. That's the other thing... it's grossly unethical to choose that chaos for all of these people who likely do not want to lose their way of life, and have done nothing to make things worse themselves, maybe even tried to build. You choose a different future for them against their own wishes and all of them will suffer immensely for it. They will be the fodder for a better future that may never even come. I think it's a terrible idea. The slaves are freed, only to be greeted by the unforgiving desert beyond the empire.
The vast majority of issues with raiders can be avoided if the Courier exterminates the Fiends and Powder Gangers themselves, making trade a hell of a lot safer. Not to mention that the devs themselves confirmed that the whole ‘assertive’ thing was meant to be so that Yes Man answers only to the Courier, and that some goober can’t just stroll into the Lucky 38 and be all like “Oi! Robot! I’m in charge now!” And that admit the wording was wonky. Basically what I’m saying is that as long as you do all the side quests, you can substantially minimise the consequences of independence (though admittedly not fully mitigate)
I always wanted to split between Independent and NCR: Use the Securitron army to force the NCR to negotiate better terms for joining. We're a semi-autonomous region, we get priority on the power and water, etc. Make it a win-win for both sides, the NCR still gets something but doesn't take everything.
There might be already vid but we need to have one about why Fallout New Vegas was hated so much in the first release but as 13 years later is regarded as classic and still popular game
its an rpg. is your courier a good leader? do they continue to deal with problems in the mojave in the best possible way? no? then yeah, independent sucks but if ur character is just that good then independent is the best one
I told Yesman to Let the Brotherhood of Steel patrol the roads of the Mojave . I told Yesman to wipe out the fiends , also to eliminate the Powder Gangers . "Some kind of Thum from God." There was an easter egg to Skyrim . In the end there were no gentile outcomes .
![My Enclave Outpost Zimonja Settlement tour! [Fallout 4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FhvAfrkxQwU/mqdefault.jpg)
![My Enclave Outpost Zimonja Settlement tour! [Fallout 4]](/img/tr.png)
not going to lie. my first ending when i played was independent and my conclusion purely when i got to the end at 14 was “i got shot and made it everyone’s problem”
Same 😂
Mine too😭
This is funny as shit 🤣
My first ending was the one where you end up killing EVERYONE, seriously there are some factions and npcs that should try to be a little bit more corteous when treating with people.
At first was just a thing of "ok, rude, so eat lead" and then was just a thing of "my karma is so bad that its easy to just shoot than talk"
mmmhm
The "Yes man" assertiveness thing has been confirmed by the devs to be a system so he only listens to you, not any random that walks in. They admit the wording was wonky.
My question about that though is if you tell Yes Man to throw General Oliver off the Dam, he’ll cry “What? No! Get the hell away from me you goddamn TV on wheels!” That was before that system was implemented, so shouldn’t Yes Man have listened to Oliver?
@@ladyalicent705but that would be denying a previous order
I mean, the developing of the game was super rushed, so that applies to the lore and the plot too: Yes Man, and Benny's plot was cut a lot, who knows what kind of content we missed, It's true that the ending changes a lot varying on the side quests and you karma and reputation. You can get rid of the fiends, help the Followers, and go independent, convince Arcade of staying with the Followers, and his ending will tell you that while independence is not what he expected, he was okay with putting the work.
@@ladyalicent705 it could be that YesMan listens to whoever has the platinum chip, or the connection with the House control system. Benny was House's protegee, and when he betrayed House, that position went to the courier. He's still a securitron and is still connected to Mr House network, so
@ladyalicent705 He's already a lil assertive
The only problem you seemed to bring up was there being raiders. Ironically the perfect situation for my level 48 murder hobo courier to be put to use.
Raiders, lack of infrastructure, no accountability, constant power shifts, death and violence on the strip.
@IMissOpieAndAnthony too much of it implies that it's actually independant and not ran by me and yes man along with our allies who think I'm the second coming of Jesus.
@@DumbguyMc Well yea. Independent means no House to crack the whip on the Strip. Why wouldn’t people go nuts and try to steal what they can? No fear of the Legion or NCR means the raiders have a much easier time. It’s anarchic.
@IMissOpieAndAnthony except we already made buddies with the families, stopped the plot from the omertas, got acts for the tops, stopped the cannibals in the white glove, helped the kings and the followers gain control of freeside again, have securitrons mk.2 everywhere. My character has been the one to literally go walk out and directly handle any situation that comes up. I essentially replaced house. Except I a physical being (for now) walks out to settle shit. Like a king leading the infantry.
@@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScriptIt says in the slide about the strip in the independent ending that the Securitrons quickly brought order to the Strip after chaos ensued
4:55 I believe that a developer clarified that the more "assertive" line is meant to say that Yes Man will change his programing so that he only follows you. As opposed to his original programing, where he served any random person who walked up to him.
18:21 what if you completed the quest to wipe out those Powder Gangers?
A developer did indeed say that, I forget who, but even then Yes Man being more assertive can still be seen as dangerous. Suppose later on the Courier makes a decision that Yes Man views to be illogical, what then is stopping him from deposing the Courier since he could not be ordered to stop?
@@Spongebrain97I mean whenever you dod something illogical in Yes Man’s view he just comments “Yes! Make things more challenging for us!”
@@Spongebrain97 The writer SPECIFICALLY AND LITERALLY SAID make him be more assertive to OTHERS, as in he'll stop being a yes-man for anybody and just be your yes-man. The fact that the actually writers came out to say this and Fallout NCR and House worshippers always come out with overedited bs to explain why being independent is bad.
So he'll do anything you say. I guess he lives up to his name.
@@spider-spectre But that literally makes no sense. Yes Man decided, by himself, to change how he interacts with people without your prompting or permission. And he's going off-line on his own time table, not yours. He is no longer your yes-man if he does things like that. He has proven to already be more assertive, and the only person he is more assertive towards is the player.
Besides, what the writer said isn't cannon. We have to go by what it says in the game
Tbh I think the independent ending should go differently depending on your character's skill, like having high intelligence, charisma and only killing the "bad" people (ie Fiends) will net you a more stable ending.
But if you go full Jason and slaughter everyone and/or have a low skill and therefor don't know how to leader, the ending will be chaos.
They had a lot planned for the Yes-Man ending like this ^
but since they only had 9 months of development time, they had to leave quite a bit on the cutting room floor.
I think establishing a fascist state should be a bummer regardless of any details about the Courier
@@Carnage_Lotdamn, sounds like of they didnt have that crunch new vegas would have been even more in depth & spoken about today. Not bashing the current state, rather those mechanics & the sheer choice you have already.
@@Carnage_Lot*18, and no, they never planned for a power fantasy path. Don't spread misinformation.
Nah, you don't lead the place. The Courier is pretty much shown to not take power, and skills aren't everything when it comes to leadership. Some things simply happen as a result of your actions if you choose this path.
None of the settlements were really being defended by the NCR. An army of upgraded Securitrons might be a better option.
I was about to say doesn’t the NCR literally lose Nipton, Primm, Searchlight, and not help Sloan with Novac basically running itself much like Good springs.
You can make an argument that they'd start protecting them once the Legion was dealt with, but I personally wouldn't be convinced.
The fact that we can all argue about this with good points on all sides so many years later shows what a phenomenal game this was.
not was, IS
it’s litterally just basic ideologies
Lmao you couldn’t even make a video like this about Fallout 4 cause it doesn’t even have ending slides
@@arbo-u2bActually you very easily can
@@skeletonbuyingpealts7134 Fallout 4 literally doesnt have ending slides. its very hard to evaluate what happened after Fallout 4s ending because they dont tell you almost anything about what happens after the games conclusion
We all low key know the true ending is that the courier leads the tunnelers into the Mojave
Thanks for those likes and comments chooms. But hear me out now, what about a Frank Horrigan sized tunneler. Say one ate something it shouldn’t have, anyway. Be safe out there 🤙🏻
oh yes the Dust Ending
I feel like the inevitability of the tunnelers isn't talked about enough lol
Speak for yourself dipshit...
@@mackenziemoore5088i think ulysses is really overestimating the tunnelers, i doubt they could really be a larger threat than cazadores or fire geckos
@@mackenziemoore5088 Well because realistically they won't be a big threat like Ulysses makes them out to be. They've lived in the dark underground all their lives and are afraid of fire. They wouldn't see well in the sunlight and have a disadvantage in the wide open space of the outside.
You can make independent new vegas a good ending if you help the right people
Maybe it’s bad for you but I’m built different.
Says everyone built the same
Im pretty sure its supposed to seem like a grey/nuetral ending but you also mirror the rise of the Legion under edward before he becomes Caesar.
Forgive me, it mirrors the rise of Caesar in what way?
@@MCB741not OP but the Courier is establishing a fascist state under the guise of bringing order and protecting New Vegas from the “others.”
It’s the exact same recipe as all fascist leaders throughout history including Caesar.
Plus, even more terrifying, is that Yes Man assures that the Courier doesn’t even need maintain anyone’s loyalty to stay in control. Literally no one within the New Vegas state has any rights beyond the whims of their new tyrant.
@@MCB741 Independent Vegas generally has the Courier uniting the bickering tribes of the Mojave and the families of the Strip against external threats of the NCR and Legion after getting rid of House, which is pretty similar to how Edward united the tribes of the east into the Legion. There are a lot of differences, but there are clear similarities.
@@danielbuie6878 Independent Vegas doesn't ally with anybody they just make non-aggression pacts and weak truces, that doesn't mean they are unifying into one Nation like the Legion that's not comparable
Ngl it'd be interesting if in the fallout TV show we learn the courier is the dictator of a new legion
I dont really agree with the take that yes man making himself more assertive immediately means they will betray you somehow.
Who's to say that he won't?
@@hermos3602 Yes Man. I mean, he has no reason to want to betray a Courier who did everything logically, and made the correct decisions in every instance. Yes Man becoming more assertive doesn't mean that he'd instantly stop being a yes man and reveal that he's harbored a secret hatred for you the entire time.
He's still a yes man, it's just that now he's your yes man. If you and him are already on the same page, he'd be able to stop other people from doing what you did with him, as in walking in and immediately hijacking control of Vegas.
On top of all that, what if the Courier dies? Who's going to control Vegas after them if Yes Man can't do anything on his own? Yes Man becoming more assertive is a positive for everyone, because it guaranties that a logical and firm leader will always be behind the wheel, who's already warmed up to the way that the Courier does things.
@@hermos3602 Joshua Sawyer himself, the whole 'more assertive' line is to indicate that he won't magically turn against you because someone else asks him to. Benny's mistake was not allowing Yes Man to be assertive at all and to just go along with everything.
This kid has no clue what he is talking about.
@@hermos3602who said he will? Devs said player is the boss
Best to keep in mind that freeside becomes “one of the more stable” areas, doesn’t mean it’s exactly stable.
Good video, but problem is that he consider mainly the worst or the neutral scenarios.
Endings in Fallout NV take in high consideration the actions of the Courier, and the Independent ending would be better if your pc decide to eliminate the powder gangers and the fiends for example.
Exactly. And in the long term would be way better
I think of independent as meaning free of rule from tyrants, but the courier still leads vegas. If you have good karma, and upgrade the securitron army, then there's less chaos and more peace, and vegas is free from oppression and the courier rules it as an independent faction. At least that's how I read it.
That is in fact, what the lead designer said if I recall correctly.
But you are the tyrant.
NCR: corrupt goverment
Mr. House: dictator that only cares for vegas
İndependant: anarchy and chaos
Legion: slavery
Every ending in the game has its flaws there is no black or white just gray some are just less gray than others
And thats what makes NV so good
House isn't a dictator, house is simply a capitalist, and is the second best option
@@Fersandouhe’s literally a self described autocrat.
Agreed, I'll take freedom and the NAP any day
@@FersandouHe‘s a monopolist and a technocrat. What he does is contrary to free market capitalism
I’m pretty sure it’s yes man programming himself to only listen the courier
@robertothesupermutant830 except it makes zero sense a robot that’s made to be loyal stops being loyal it doesn’t make sense
So actually it just does add on lamo
@@manuelmoralez2257It does make sense when the whole point of the upgrade is well, a change in course.
@@alpacalover0 he wouldn’t be able to do the upgrade in the first place this is why it *doesn’t* make sense
@@manuelmoralez2257He's proven he can act autonomously by the very action of deciding to do that upgrade without your permission. Even before that, he tells you if you destroyed the Securitron Army that you're going to need to blow up the Dam instead of just letting you make a bad decision and blowing the Dam without any means of repelling the NCR in the future.
@robertothesupermutant830ig it depends on how you interpret it at this point, when i first played I just assumed he meant that was only going to listen to us and not be pushed around by others
Would be interesting to see your take on the other endings
Nice to see you still making nv content after all this time
There's been a lot of argueing against the independent route, but the beauty of Fallout or the Elder Scrolls is often how people can debate the finer points of what faction is 'right' and there is usually something to be said for all viewpoints. The game does not explicitly say so itself what is better or worse and allows the player to fill in the gaps. That said, there is a lot in this video I would counter.
Some of the points raised against independent Vegas are outcomes that the player can avoid by just putting in the work. The powder gangers at the correctional facility can be eliminated, quite easily, by the Courier. With help from the NCR even, resulting in them not being a factor causing instability. Same story with the Fiends. Collect all the bounties, and then decapitate them by killing Motor Runner, and their reign of terror is completely avoided.
The Brotherhood of Steel is a different story, as I prefer the paragon route of allying them with the NCR, which leads to the ending where they harass travellers. But that is the ending slide not taking into account player actions after the end. Because the Courier can sit down with McNamara for a polite chat to tell him to knock that shit off. Between the securitron army, overloading the fusion reactor of Hidden Valley, and killing the whole chapter the hard way, you have the power to stop them if they won't listen. Really the only reason I don't do so as House would have is out of sympathy for Veronica and the belief that preventive strikes are immoral.
One way or another, the Brotherhood aren't going to be a threat. Yes, there are still other gangs who might fill the gap, but you do control a securitron army. The ambitious nation-builder can have them uphold the law along the route to Mojave Outpost and clear away these threats. And the main settlements along the highways can join the state of New Vegas.
With the Three Families, you could come to an understanding that the change in management won't affect the contract they signed with Mr. House. Cachino, Swank and Marjorie will turn in a share of the casino's profits as a tax, and this means the Courier has a sizeable budget throught which to finance improvements. Again, the ending makes no assumptions about player actions towards the Followers of the Apocalypse, but even just a tiny fraction of the earnings of only one casino will go a long way towards alleviating the burders on Mormon Fort. Allowing the followers to hire doctors, buy medicine, run additional schooling and training programs. They could, instead, flourish in the Mojave in a way they haven't in the NCR since their government decided their pacifism was a nuisance.
Likewise, the Courier could establish ties with the Crimson Caravan to help pick up the slack in the chaotic few months following the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. They help maintain trade links with the NCR and there remains plenty of commerce in an independent New Vegas to make it worthwhile. Especially if you help the one Boomer get in touch with the Crimson Caravan employee, they'll have an exclusive inroad with the gradually changing Boomers at Nellis. From the DLC, there is also the Happy Trails caravan company, who in the White Leg extermination path succeed in re-establishing their ties with the New Canaanites, helping New Vegas become the link to another peaceful and stable society. And then there is the unquantifiable potential of Big Mountain's Think Tank working for the Courier, whose inventions can be of value to the Mojave when curated by the Courier.
Yes, this is a lot of headcanon. But as stated in the beginning, this is not exactly something that New Vegas discourages. Only a new entry in the series set in the area could canonically overwrite that. And it doesn't look like we'll see another Fallout title for some time. But even more than ten years later, there is plenty of New Vegas for the community to imagine.
Wild because doing Veronica personal quest actually made me side against BOS MORE. They LITERALLY schizo enough that they killed innocent Followers outpost that didnt even got a sht from Veronica.
They literally killed off ppl from one of the most morally good factions, with no remorse or accountability. Can you guarantee they wont do it more to Followers in the future? Especially since neither Mcnamara nor Harrin seem to give a sht about those no names BOS members? Heck you can do veronica quest after being liked by BOS and doing their crap quests and yet they still hostile to u and Veronica.
AS House eloquently said, they're just techno fetishist raiders, atleast raiders n powdah gangsters dont pretend to have high ground they just loot due to personal sin, but BOS also pretends they're virtuous while stealing or blasting u.
Sawyer said that the code snippets yes man dialogue was to say he wouldnt be taking orders from just anybody, just the courier and probably whoever the courier deems fit to order yes man
I feel like this misses the point of the independent ending. The fun of the ending is creating a head-cannon on what happens after. It can be both the best and worst ending, it all depends what you think comes next
so thats the point of the video he said what he thinks lmao
I've said it before on other videos and on other posts but basically my ideal ending isy courier ruling an independent New Vegas city state. You put people in the three families who you have gotten power so they are loyal to you. Yes Man handles the securitron and Vegas defenses for you. I extend my rule to outer Vegas I build up freesdie, west side and north Vegas. I keep the kings identity but turn them into an actual well trained militia force. I basically make the west side milita stronger same with Jules and Crandon in north Vegas. Everyone still has freedom and my protection. The followers are invested in heavily and I allow them to use any and all tech to better people's lives. I extend my reach to Novac and good springs but I know NCR are assholes so I have to let them have primm at least. I also invite the enclave remnants to train an actual new Vegas defense force to supplement my securitron army. I need the chairman and omertas to focus on their own casinos I'll build a new human force to fight with my robot army. I still maintain my alliance with the boomers and even invite Ulysses to what could be a possible nation he could be proud of. And with guarantee to protect Jacobs town mutants can also have a place to live without fear there. I even slowly incorporate tech from the big mt to better my defenses and medial care done the right way now though since the scientist at big Mt are sick fucks. And the main thing my courier actually stays he or she doesn't just leave and let everything descend into chaos. But it's my ideal ending and it doesn't happen that way so it's just my own head canon and not real canon
Sounds like a non-schizo version of Elijah's plan. Using high end tech to "start a new"
It’s a shame that the ending slides don’t account for the most ideal scenario that’s totally achievable.
I guess I get the game is saying you can't have everything and sometimes happy endings never come especially for some companions so I get they didn't allow for something like that. But at the same time for me if you have the choice and your character is this super capable person it should be an option in general the more options in rpg the better imo at least.
Can contract gun runners to arm your new army aswell
Always felt there was supposed to be more to this ending but was cut down due to time constraints seeing as you can talk to the followers about setting up medical care after you take over
I knew all of this.
All of us do.
But at least General Oliver got thrown off the dam!
9:52 I don't think that's a good proof for the post-ending situation of an independent Mojave. Veronica wanted to leave it all behind after some fanatic paladins razed a Followers outpost because they thought she was going to betray the Brotherhood by giving away their secrets. Even though those paladins got what they deserved, nothing was preventing another fanatic group from that fanatic faction from repeating the same atrocities with anyone she associated with, so she leaves the Mojave to seek a new life out of the Brotherhood's reach.
Why does she stay in the Mojave in a NCR ending with a NCR-Brotherhood truce? The NCR offers a counter-balance to the Brotherhood's might, so they aren't free to commit any wanton atrocity and they remain content with the surface patrols seizing any bit of military technology travelers would have.
I agree that no gods or kings is one of the least favourable options, but at the same time this is a post nuclear war world so.... nothing is ideal or less chaotic but it's a good idea to talk about. I agree as well that why would a courier become the leader?
Why would a courier become an assassin? Or a diplomat? Or an NCR soldier? Or a legionnaire? Or a cyborg? The Courier is essentially an unstoppable übermensch who can do whatever the hell they want. If you've played the full game and done all the DLC's you've faced the deadliest threats the wasteland has to offer, forged alliances with a myriad of groups and have access to nearly limitless tech and resources not to mention the loot from the Sierra Madre. I can't think of anyone in a better position to be leader.
The independent route is also very limiting in scope. You can't take the place of Mr. House literally (by being put in his machine that gave him longevity). You can't give the Mojave to any one other faction like the Brotherhood, Followers, or any other party. This is kinda the only problem I have with New Vegas. You can only kill factions, you can't really replace them though, more specifically the three casinos.
Plus the DLC adds in a lot of technology and access to game breaking mechanics that could change the wasteland forever. Such as the Sierra Madre vending machines, all the Big MT scientists and tech, trading with New Cannon along with the Utah tribes, the MREs, cloning eyebots, and commissary terminals from lonesome road.
Man, I really wished they had like 4 years to make New Vegas. I donno if all the people who worked on the og Fallout 1 and 2 are still at any one place together, but they should really throw a pitch at Microsoft.
fallout 1 and 2 wasnt made by bethesda or obsidian. after fallout 2 bethesda bought the fallout franchise
@@matthewwilliams3962 Huh? Dude, the people that made Fallout 2 worked at Obsidian when they made New Vegas. They left Obsidian shortly afterwords (before Outer Worlds and the Microsoft buyout). They are a little scattered or retired now, but Microsoft doesn't have to use just Bethesda or Obsidian either to make Fallout spin-offs.
@@AllyMonsters Yeah, but most of the NV team wasn't from Fallout 1 or 2 but rather Van Buren. Van Buren aka the original FO3 never came out because Black Isle destroyed the franchise with Tactics and Brotherhood of Steel and projects like Fallout Xtreme. Sawyer worked on Van Buren and Avellone on 2. Ironically Avellone ended up liking Bethesda's FO3 for the same reasons the 3 NV DLCs he directed are as apocalyptic and grim as they are.
@@alpacalover0 Yar, that's true but still some from the og like Scott Everts as the "World Building Lead" or Aaron Brown as a character artist. They even got a few people from Fallout 3.
But my original point was that anyone of the old developers could throw a pitch out to Microsoft (if enough are at any one company together). It doesn't have to be limited to just the guys that worked on New Vegas (like say, the Fallout guys that do Wasteland 2-3, who I think are also owned by Microsoft). That was my bad, I should have clarified that better since I was talking about New Vegas before.
But what I really like about Van Buren and New Vegas is how New Vegas acts as if most of the events of Van Buren happened as a set up to the events in the game.
"According to Mr House, Mr House is the best faction."
3:42 It says that "Chaos became uncertainty, than acceptance with minimal loss of life." Meaning there was initially chaos, then confusion about the new status quo, then acceptance of the new way of things in the Mojave. It does not say that there was "acceptance of chaos."
The greatness of the independent Vegas route is that the power of how successful the route has depends on how much and how well the Courier sets up New Vegas for success, albeit with the understanding some will not be to the courier's liking regardless, particularly Freeside.
However, I would argue the Courier is not the leader at the end of the day. Goodsprings, Novac, Primm, the Boomers, Freeside, New Vegas, the Great Khans, the raider leaders, Powder gangers, and the 3 families will control themselves and separate from each other(provided the Courier did not destroy them entirely), leaving the outcomes as the consequences of those actions. If the Courier was leading, he could make those changes by themself, similar to the Broken Steel DLC of Fallout 3.
2:35 that's only if you don't upgrade the Securitrons. That's not a definitive part of this ending unlike, say, House killing all of the Kings and BOS or NCR causing Goodsprings to become a ghosttown,
House only kills the Kings if you negotiate peace between them and the NCR. Whenever I do a House run, I never tell the King that the NCR had sent a representative to him, he tells me to back up Pacer in the gunfight, I wipe out the NCR in Freeside, and the ending narration says that the Kings drove the NCR out of Freeside during the Battle of Hoover Dam and House took this as evidence of the Kings' dedication to an independent Vegas and left them alone.
All of this fails to take into account that the Courier has access to resources and tech from Big MT and the Sierra Madre, Hover Dam and it's electricity, and a literal army of upgraded securitrons. My own Courier, Nadine, went to a lot of trouble to get everyone else on board, and she would not just sit back and let everything fall apart after the fact. Forcing the NCR out of the Mojave as an invading force doesn't mean she wouldn't maintain diplomatic ties. The Courier doesn't have to directly rule to have influence over the Mojave.
Yes, it's only headcanon, but the ending slides fail to take a lot of the DLC content, or how some completionist would do things. Then there's the part where if things get too bad, the Courier gets directly involved, and at the end of the game and all the DLC, the Courier can literally accomplish anything they set their mind to.
If we're counting the DLCs, the Courier is up and gone if Big Mountain is factored in. They leave to live there permanently and automate the process of the technology being introduced to the Wasteland, which, while being a certain boon, would be poorly appreciated in a destabilized region.
I remember completing No Gods, No Masters on my first playthrough in Highschool. My character was a fast talking, business savvy "Messiah," so I expected to bring a new order of freedom and security to Vegas. I remember when I got those slides, and feeling so... empty and melancholic to hear that my efforts to bring freedom to everyone didn't really help anything. Made things worse in most places, with only a few factions doing good, and only by their standards. It didn't feel like the win I envisioned.
But gosh darn it, I'll do it again! No Gods, No Masters, baby!
Oh dear...that was my favorite ending. I knew the Courier's "reign" wasn't perfect, couldn't possibly benefit literally everyone. My Courier has a good heart, but she knows she can't save everyone. 💔
This vids falls apart to the fact the u can make the independent ending good if you just help the right ppl and factions, you relied on the idea of the player just making a bunch of bad choices.
Dev has confirmed that assertive means he will only obey us not other, brotherhood takes those endings only if you do not upgrade army.
This is my favorite ending to the game because the needs of me outweigh the needs of everyone else
So basically you care about yourself and screw over everyone else. I can respect that.
You're the only main character of that game 😉
Same with the mr house
The game's director, Joshua Sawyer confirmed that Yes Man reprogramming himself was to prevent others from controlling him, giving Courier complete control over Yes Man. I would like to address your other points, but I don't want to sit here for awhile. I recommend doing more research for your future videos.
I’m so glad someone mentioned this! You can have a somewhat peaceful independence ending but you have to have high karma and do a certain things. Even then, it’s not great.
The best ending I ever got was in my altruistic genius doctor run where I sided with NCR. I wanted to have the most good for the most people. Was always peaceful. Made peace with BoS, Khans, Boomers, Kings, Remnants, and had the highest karma.
The NCR was efficient, and helpful. With BoS patrols they didn’t have to have as many troopers. The Followers were supported and people got medical care. They also help The Khans and bring back railroads. The Kings are free to run Freeside and citizens live there. Everybody has electricity and safety.
Though they have to pay taxes, and are under NCR law. But you can help to completely revitalize the NCR and they help the Mojave for it.
Thing is, to get that you have to actively work against the NCR every step of the way. You have to go out of your way to negotiate a truce in freeside, you have to disregard direct orders and broker peace outside of what NCR trully wants. You just delayed the inevitable seize of power, not prevented it. And as Chief Hanlon rightly pointed out-victory in the Mojave will only embolden kimball, and all the people that you had to fight to get to that peacufull ncr ending will only get more popular, powerful and successful. Give it a few years and ncr will embark on another “pacification” campaign in different region to annex them as well.
@@max7971 You’re probably right. But considering in my ending it lead to widespread legal change in caravanning, expansion, and many including Hanlon, the Misfits who were honored as heroes, The guy at the embassy “keep forgetting him” everyone at McCarran and other places changed their tune it might be a wake up call. The only succeeded because of the strength of the whole Mojave.
They won’t try to take the Mojave again because they know they can’t hold it, their citizens are mixed in with Vegas and form relations, the Boomers, Khans, Kings, and BoS as support means they’d lose and be devastated.
But that’s a story for another day….
Even the larger factions like NCR struggled against raiders like The Fiends so a weaker smaller independent New Vegas seems like they’d fair even worse. That’s why I always felt that as totalitarian as NCR can be they still offer more security than the other options.
Cesar outright wipes the raiders off the map.
@@max7971 Really? I'm always catching Caesar's boys raiding caravans in my play-throughs
NV was the first game to make me realize maybe the bos wasn’t so great
3:56 I think you are not interpreting that right. It doesn’t say chaos becomes a way of life. It says chaos is replaced with uncertainty, then acceptance. So the chaos goes away.
And independent doesn’t mean what you say after that. It means not under the control of another nation. Vegas under House would also be independent in that sense. The reason it is the Independent Ending is that your character does it independent of the big powers, not that Vegas is left with no rulership. Indeed the fact that the ending describes the Yes Man and the securitrons being used to bring order really directly implies the Courier taking power.
I think it's a good point that this path does not mean courier's rule, many people tend to forget that.
However, I don't feel like it's fair to compare this ending with others as to how it is best or worse for the mojave. The point of this ending is not to make things better for anyone, it's about giving everyone the freedom to thrive or die by their own hand. The mojave is free.
In other endings, you have to see if the sacrifice of freedom is worth for the results on peoples' lives. This is not the case here.
Nevertheless, congrats on taking the time to bring up all consequences.
The Good Karma NCR ending is the culmination of the independent ending because Vegas doesn’t rely on the NCR in places where the taxes would hurt (compared to House’s 50% sales tax) and still has all the benefits. Yes-Man is a backup or if you actually genuinely hate the NCR as much as the Legion for one reason or another not like House who’s doing it for money.
We have the option to tell the General that Vegas is ours. So depending on dialogue the Courier can rule Vegas and make it better.
"The Dam is won. For me." and "The Republic has outstayed it's welcome. This land is mine."
personally i think it's a missed opportunity that even with the army, the game ending slides treat it like there'd still be complete chaos and anarchy in the wasteland, same as when the army is destroyed.
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Unless the game is implying that the Courier would only concentrate his forces in the Strip and surrounding areas, which would make some sense... but then when Mr. HOUSE wins, he sends his army to take basically the whole Mojave, when he has just as if not even more connection to just the Strip than the Courier.
Like, he takes control of both Goodsprings , Primm, etc from the NCR even though his focus is just the strip. His plan was to stay in his free economic zone and be partners with the NCR, while the power hungry Courier in the independent route would definitely be more opposed to the NCR, and more inclined to take more of the wasteland.
I still like the endings of course, and New Vegas writing as a whole, but just a few missed opportunities.
Neither House nor the Courier have the resources to actually control the Mohave for anything long term. It’s why in House’s ending he still has to essentially become a protectorate of the NCR. Sending out the army was just a show of force.
In the truly independent ending the Courier would have even less at their disposal. It’s inevitable that the farther settlements are from the Strip the more chaotic and dangerous it would be.
House has the advantage of technological power, brilliance, familiarity with his own systems and software, and a literal attachment to the land. House can project influence at key outposts with the weight of Vegas behind him, while the Courier or Yes-Man will have to focus on keeping New Vegas, a land that respects them only because of their power, in check. There's a reason that it says *New Vegas* becomes an independent power *in* the Mojave in the Yes-Man Ending.
@@brianwilkowski9754The big gangs like the Fiends, Khans and Powder Gangers can be dealt with in the game. The small gangs are also basically no challenge to the courier so he can destroy them.
In the ending slides Goodsprings and Primm (if they have a sherrif) are safe. There is not much to suggest that the outer towns would be in chaos. They would just continue living life like they have always been.
Anarchy? No, you don't understand. I make the money man, i rule the nickels, the game is mine.. i deal the cards.
Yes-Man literally can't betray you, as in "is unable to". Also, the Courier is essentially Mr. House, just worldlier and not a giant shrivelled up posh douche, who knows the Mojave and what it needs, has a inner circle of the Wastelands best and brightest, also he got an army of beefed up robots who trounced both the NCR and the Legion and controls Helios-1 as well as Hoover dam.
luv the content. one thing on this one tho - the quest "Volare' " is voe-LAW-ray, not voe-LAIR. thanks for the vids!
vo-LA-re and pronounce it like Mario would.
I like to think of my independent courier and the securitrons are like Nate/Nora and the minutemen. They’re not in control but they can definitely help out in the area
I was turned off from the independent ending as soon as I heard Yes-Man say he would make himself more assertive. House has his problems, but I don't like the idea of a potentially rogue AI being in charge of an army of deadly robots.
Edit: Apparently by that he'd meant that he'd only be loyal to the player and no one else, but even then I still don't like the idea of giving an AI that kind of control.
the independent ending is only as bad as you make it
Always felt going fully independent wasnt the best ending. Yeah, free from House, NCR and Legion, but managing an entire region like the Mojave was never mentioned in the independent ending. Vegas is fine yeah, but at least House would've sent more securitrons to manage the far off settlements from Vegas. Idk why the courier doesn't in theirs
House’s Vegas is essentially a protectorate of the NCR.
It’s easier for him to extend power because he no longer has to worry about his western front (for now) and will have far more manpower and supplies at his displease. Even then, House sending out his army seems to be much more of a temporary show of force. It’s unlikely that the Securitrons would be able to truly maintain control of the Mojave alone. Any major internal conflict or outside threat would immediately see robot army returning to home base.
The Courier’s Vegas has far less resources than House and less border security due to not being a protectorate of the NCR. They won’t be able to extend power much beyond the Strip whatsoever
Imagine talking for 27 minutes about independence and never once mentioning a people's right to self-determination. People want an independent New Vegas in the game, and it will hurt in the short term (independence almost always causes this IRL) but that's not really relevant. Stability does not justify tyranny. Several independent towns facing threats to trade came together to form the NCR in the first place, with a lot less resources than the Mojave has.
Not to mention he completely misunderstood what the ending with the full army meant by "acceptance" it means the PEOPLE accepted the securatrons as a security force
@@hamby2232 oh so much flew over his head more than that Hoss. Take the Followers, the only other instance of there even still being any Followers is if they actively support the NCR at Hoover but moreover people actually surviving now to make it to the Followers Fort rather than getting picked off on their way there for being vulnerable is a bad thing because too many people are living to make it to the hospital now, lolz.
I don't get why you link independence with chaos. With an upgraded securiton army, it's made clear that chaos was very brief and people quickly accepted the new status quo. It's only with a bad karma courier that chaos reigns. Obsidian clarified that the upgrade to yes man was to make him listen only to the Courier, not to any passerby. The mojave wasteland was always lawless though.
Of course an independent New Vegas wouldn't have the ressources of the NCR or the legion, and it would be slow going in the start but the courier could definitely expand out to the Mojave wasteland. With the correct decisions in New Vegas, he'd already started with forging good relations with different communities who'd probably willingly join. Or at least trade. Goodsprings thrives in independent New Vegas for example.
The independent ending or NCR is the best ending for New Vegas. House's vision for a future civilization is a soulless casino as the foundations for it.
Remember Remember the 5th of November, Gunpowder, Treason and Plot
I see no reason why Gunpowder Treason, should ever be forgot.
I've never understood why the independent ending is the way it is. The whole point of the plan was to steal Mr House's play for yourself, not instate anarchy
I feel like the devs were conflicted on what it was supposed to be and rushed it out. It's the same reason only the NCR has sidequests.
Great start to my work shift!
20:40 Oh, oh, oh, I know this one. It's the independent ending, y'know the: "New Vegas assumed it's position as an independent power," part of the already answered who has power now power vacuum question you're posing. Maybe direct statements are confusing sometimes I guess.
I mean the courier can Become the leader of Big MT and send armies of Robot dogs and robot scorpions into the mojave to secure its borders and reinforce the Protectrons at the Dam.
Awesome video Man. I used to think that the independent ending is the best but now, not anymore. I really think that Yes Man is dangerous. The second he said “I want to change my personality” I got really nervous. Right there I knew “yeah this isn’t a good idea”. Also In my opinion it’s a bit ridiculous that the evil and good ending for the courier is pretty much the same for the independent(in some slides). Example: Why would a good courier allow anarchy & madness? I’m not saying it would be peaceful everywhere in the Mojave but this sounds like something that would happen in an evil epilogue. You would think that a good character would at least try to stop the anarchy with the robot army.
I think every player that heard that line from Yes Man the first time had a "Oh crap!" moment.
@@chadharger9323 Well yeah. Any machine with that level of intelligence screams terminator future lol 😂. Can you imagine yes man teaming up with the enclave or institute? Terrifying thought.
@@Steel-101 Heaven help those factions. . .
Keep in mind that in the neutral ending the Courier is establishing a fascist state with them and/or Yes Man being the only voices in charge.
The citizens within their area of control have no rights whatsoever. Moreover thanks to Yes Man and the Securitrons, the Courier doesn’t need anyone’s loyalty to maintain control. There’s very little pressure to please even their own loyalists.
Finally, despite New Vegas being advanced, they don’t have anything even close to the resources of the NCR or even Caesar’s Legion. They do not have the resources to supply the Mohave nor the manpower to control it. Let alone protect from outside forces. The further settlements get from the Strip, the more chaos there will be.
Something simple like a bad yield of crops would be devastating for the Mohave. Caesar and especially the NCR would simply be able to move food reserves to the troubled areas, New Vegas simply couldn’t. It’s also unlikely the NCR would be willing to provide aid, and whatever remnants of the Legion sure as hell wouldn’t.
@@brianwilkowski9754 oh no no you misunderstand me. By the way all great points. I fully understand that the courier doesn’t have the same massive political and resources edge that the NCR has. But still that robot army was pretty huge. And Correct if I’m wrong but they can make more down in the bunker right? I can’t fully remember. Anyway my point is that the epilogue slides don’t even mention that the courier at least tries to guard some of the small settlements with some robot guards(kind of like what Mr. House did with Victor and Goodsprings). Nothing like that at all, it sounds like only the strip and Freeside get the guards. Which sounds bizarre for a good courier play through. See what I mean. I’m not all angry about this, I just find it bizarre that obsidian didn’t notice that detail when writing the ending slides.
Of course it's not sunshine and rainbows; it's sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows
It’s basically halting all progress towards civilization. The other 3 endings at least offer a path forward for some people. The independent ending is basically dooming everyone in the long run with indefinite uncertainty
I have to disagree with some of your arguments. I can't imagine why a Science 100 Intelligence 10 courier couldn't ensure back at the Tops that Yes Man cannot betray him. There's also the matter of twitter-placed explanation of the line, where one of the developers (I believe Chris) said that this simply means that Yes Man will not listen to everyone, but only to the Courier.
House keeps the peace with a small army of MKI securittons and some (but few) NCR soldiers. Are you genuinely suggesting that an entire army of MKII securittons cannot keep the relative peace of pre-Hoover Dam?
As to results of other factions or companions - their quests and outcomes fully optional.
I stand with Mr. House, he's the only one with a set plan for Humanity's renewal. 100 years and we'll be in spaceships, NCR can't even plan ahead 100 days.
Assuming House can actually be bothered to care
The independent ending is the best ending. Keep the wastelands free and wild.
i think you saw the freeside resolution backwards
ps: ok, after watching to the end , i think you should take a deeper look into the concept of old world blues and what it means to let go
It was independent before you got there. House is the only moral choice.
Of course there will be no order in the imminent aftermath of Hoover Dam, but this didn't mean that the Mojave will remain a lawless region forever and that something can't be done by both the communities of the Mojave and the Courier.
But that’s what happens. Mojave houses an impressive 7 (or 8 if you count BoS) raider factions. Fiends, Great Khans, Powder Gangers, Jackals, Vipers, Scorpions and Greasers squat in every unoccupied spot of the map, ready to pillage those communities. How exactly are you proposing for “communities” to fix it without centralized force? Do you think traders will go to Vegas if they would have to be armed to the teeth just to make it to the civilization?
So basically, worst to best endings are: Legion, Independent, NCR, House. As the big main factions since I don’t see any evidence that you can side with Benny since the last time I saw that being a possibility he led you into a trap to die so yeah.
In what world is Cesar worse than total anarchy lmao?
@@max7971 EVERY WORLD. Because at least in Anarchy, you are free instead of a slave to a senile dying old man and his right hand men that want nothing more than to make your life a living hell because they fucking felt like it. You are either completely clueless, have never actually played the game to completion or at least know enough of the lore to know the legion ending is the worst or you are trolling.
You forgot the part where you can get an ending slideshow where almost every character narrates their own death
I just got one answer for you:
Nuh uh
"While it might look like youre creating a free and peaceful vegas strip."
Me turning the white gloves to cannibalism, helping the omertas attack the strip and making the great khans launch a suicide attack.
"Hahaha no."
My thoughts for why I always choose independence: the game's major theme is all about learning from history and how all these groups are just making the same mistakes as the ones they take after. So independent Vegas means that the Courier could rally all the resources of New Vegas towards something new. Something like what Ulysses saw in the Divide and its people.
I still think, especially long-term an Independent Vegas would be better...keep up the good fight though.
Who says I/my character would rule. It's intentionally worded pretty open.
All of the endings are Not Good
Despot Mr House
Legion slavery
NCR taxes and overtake of New Vegas
Independent (Yes Man) chaos until order is established
This is why I chose Independent ending
There are never any perfect solutions in Fallout, but some are better than others. That's one of the things I love about the franchise, and probably the hardest to come to grips with. It's the choices we make in game and the consequences of those decisions that intrigue me. It's improbable that a choice is going to be as binary as "good" or "bad." Most of the choices we make IRL are either bad or worse, or on rare occasion between good and better. Fallout simply reflects that reality, but in a world turned upside down, and where morality and ethics are often supremely inconvenient in the face of your in game goals. Overall, this was a pretty good video. I can tell a lot of thought and work went into it. Thanks.
So a good independat ending is getting rid of the fiends the powder gangers and the brotherhood
Love or Hate the Yes Man ending, it will ALWAYS be the BEST.
No Other ending allows you to throw General Oliver off of the Dam.
THIS!
Raiders? What raiders, you can destroy powder gangers, bos and the fiends in independent vegas
This is the canon ending
Many in the fallout groups I belong to would disagree with me but in my opinion, House is the best ending followed by the NCR. I hate the legion and their you're going to join us or die mentality and if you do join. The men will be soldiers, and the women will be slaves. House has a vision of space travel within a 100 years or so and terraforming planets for mankind sometime later. In the ending cutscene, it's said he affords the courier with all he can on the strip and no other faction really takes care of you. You're essentially his right hand man and who knows, it wasn't mentioned but I bet he'd find a way to extend the couriers life he did his own. He gets alot of shit from different factions in game but he was the one who loved Vegas pre war and used his money and resources to save as much as he could. In my eyes House deserves the reigns to Vegas.
With the NCR, they do have their taxes and other bs like taking peoples farms to feed the NCR citizens before anyone else and that is shitty but honestly I see them as somewhat of a good thing for the Mojave in a security sense. The perfect scenario in my opinion is have House rule Vegas and of course his influence and money will affect the Mojave in different ways but have the NCR allowed to patrol the Mojave to keep it relatively safe. Eradicate the legion and all those who cause harm to the Mojave and sit high as House's right hand man
We all know the true good ending is the courier WIPING THE SLATE CLEAN
My personal head canon independent ending is my courier completed quests for the Boomers/Great Kahn’s/BOS/The Kings/FOA and other towns too. Soon they aided the Courier in his new nation keeping order and helping it thrive.
Nah, Boomers and BOS gotta bite it in my book Hoss; but then I also nuke the Legion and NCR from the Divide so there is that.
@@Noms_Chompsky why Boomers and BOS ?
@@kpat5655 If you want, I'll tell you straight up; reply and let me know if you want me to. It's not because of the endslides influencing me either. More than a few of my playthroughs I kept them around and I did a lot of NCR endings until I just couldn't avoid recognizing that their priority is to themselves and the resources they can get from the Mojave. The NCR imo isn't treating the people of the Mojave like they are solely because they're overextended, undersupported and Kris Kristofferson's character (Hagen?) is doing a sabotage; the people of the Mojave wouldn't be NCR in the end, they'd be a colony owned by the NCR. The people of the Mojave would only benefit from the NCR in the future incidentally from the NCR protecting themselves and their interests just as they're protected by the NCR from the Legion now; the NCR watch Nipton burn and they'll post a base in Primm to dissuade the Powder Gangers from raiding towards the Mojave Outpost in favor of easier pickings elsewhere but they're never going to cross that bridge and clear out the Bison Hotel for Primm under siege.
Why the Boomers and the BOS are ultimately a bad for the Mojave, despite Veronica being so adorbs, is kinda like Arefu in Fallout 3. At first blush Vance is trying to socialize cannibalism building a community where it's understood and channeled to be less rampant and all consuming (pun.) Eventually though you get that Vance and Family rhyming with Manson Family isn't a coincidence and that poor kid whether actually a cannibal or not is still being isolated to further his being gaslit and brainwashed all along. I don't want to rob you of that next level in the game with the Boomers and BOS, and I think what I'm basing my opinion on is there in the game to be seen so no spoilers unless you really want 'em. Cheers!
I will never forget how gutted I felt after completing my first playthrough and getting to the slides, just to be told how my "independent" New Vegas basically turned to crap, despite doing as many of the side missions and affinity quests as I could and trying to be benevolent.
You make a good point that I hadn't considered in all these years. The fact that the Courier doesn't become the de-facto ruler had not even been considered by teenage self.
Looking back, I don't think I've ever finished a playthrough to the battle of Hoover Dam since. 🤔
What it really comes down to is that this (getting the followers help, dealing with domestic threats like the fiends, etc.) should have resulted in a good ending but Obsidian didn’t have time to flesh out the writing for scenarios like that
@@Wjanabdjd138They also didn't have the time to make post-game content. Wish they did a Broken Steel instead of Gun Runners' Arsenal, but oh well.
Hey does anyone know the quickest way to get out of quarry junction? I'm stuck in a trailer surrounded by 4 deathclaws.
Just reload a previous save bruh
@@S0LACE222not possible overwirte last save to when I am in the trailer.
@@andyh5895Use the time skip glitch
Or restart
try to find a spot where you can fast travel
A long, long time ago, I came up with a way to make Independent Vegas the best ending, but a lot of it was headcanon and had lots of holes, but I’ll post it anyway just because it’s interesting to think about. Tl;dr at the bottom.
-reform the White Gloves, no more cannibal elements.
-Remove the Omertas. They can’t be trusted.
-Form an alliance with the BOS. Since I was idolized, I thought I could barter with them; in exchange for some Securitron tech, they protect the strip/are protected by securitrons. Possibly even give them the old casino the Omertas were in and let them repurpose it as a base.
-if BOS turns down living on the strip, either demolish the casino to make room for farmland/bighorner/brahmin ranches or move either the Kings or Followers of the Apocalypse in.
-if reduced to farmland/ranches, food is more available for Freeside. Extend Securitron protection to Freeside due to the army being massive.
These steps would, in theory , if they worked, make Freeside less desolate, bolstered New Vegas with both a securitron and Brotherhood army (along with the Boomers, who I allied with), and people would flock to Freeside. Eventually, Vegas would spread due to the influx of citizens. Utilize Mr. House’s plans to make Vegas thrive economically and technologically. Create a Vegas Militia/Army (rich enough to contract the Van Graffs or Gun Runners for weapons and armor, and in Fallout, 3 meals a day, free water and a roof to sleep under would be too tempting not to join).
The brotherhood would eventually be a problem in this scenario, yes, but with a Vegas/Freeside army and securitrons, and threats of Boomers bombing their bunker if tensions get high, they can be dealt with peacefully or violently, and at that point they wouldn’t be necessary.
Tl;dr: make space in Vegas, support Freeside, increase agriculture, and with all the caps flowing in too, absolutely prime settlement growth.
Freedom does not come without great sacrifice. The initial chaos of vegas independence is outweighed by shoving back the oppressors of the east and west
Copium
@@chrishiggins1934 actually I'm high on jet
Then comes the Courier who isn’t an actual body of government.
I disagree. Sometimes you just create a power vacuum where the first to exploit it ends up seizing everything and the cycle simply continues. Whoever wrangles up the most order first wins, and gets to do what they want. Caesar's Legion was BORN of the chaos and lack that existed in more tribal times. Simply removing present oppressors doesn't remove the mechanisms that make it happen. When there is no overarching society making sure everyone's needs are taken care of, people fight to control what they need to live. Even without a formal hierarchy, you have your 'haves' and 'have-nots.' This will inspire new waves of conflicts which can generate endless faulty power structures.
If you do not BUILD after a revolution, don't tend to everyone's needs, and instead let chaos set in, it does not magically become order one day. People simply suffer until somebody gets tired of it and takes over. It's back to pre-strip times, with classic human tribal units becoming the norm a faction here or there carving out ideological goals at the expense of non-members. Something like feudalism can also grow. But realistically it would take decades to centuries for the chaos to really settle, with no promise of anything better ever coming. It's likely more of the same factions, just without the means to centralize as dominantly, and no central governing body to check any of their behavior. Might will be right, essentially. Some places will be better positioned to weather chaos, and everyone else will want what they have. What happens next? You think they peacefully negotiate? House is a total authoritarian, but he was doing a lot to keep factions from destroying each other or gaining too much power. With that specter gone, what do they really decide to do?
That's the thing. If you knock out the main cornerstones of advanced human societies as we know it, we revert to older forms seen in the distant past, and then have to go back up through all of the other shitty modes of existing we had before the advent of modern governance to get to better ones. And there's nothing really saying people don't just arrive at the same power strucures again. Nukes wiped the slate clean, and yet all of the follies of the old world are seen repeated time and time again. How is independent Vegas wiping the strucure different from the nukes doing it? Sure, less physical destruction, but same nuked foundation, same soil as before. Why would something different grow there with the same stock?
I think it's also REALLY easy to sit here and say "chaos is good for starting over" when YOU personally will not be living through it. That's the other thing... it's grossly unethical to choose that chaos for all of these people who likely do not want to lose their way of life, and have done nothing to make things worse themselves, maybe even tried to build. You choose a different future for them against their own wishes and all of them will suffer immensely for it. They will be the fodder for a better future that may never even come.
I think it's a terrible idea. The slaves are freed, only to be greeted by the unforgiving desert beyond the empire.
House conveniently enough is neither in the West or the East. Funny how that works, huh?
The vast majority of issues with raiders can be avoided if the Courier exterminates the Fiends and Powder Gangers themselves, making trade a hell of a lot safer. Not to mention that the devs themselves confirmed that the whole ‘assertive’ thing was meant to be so that Yes Man answers only to the Courier, and that some goober can’t just stroll into the Lucky 38 and be all like “Oi! Robot! I’m in charge now!” And that admit the wording was wonky. Basically what I’m saying is that as long as you do all the side quests, you can substantially minimise the consequences of independence (though admittedly not fully mitigate)
I trust the robit
I regret nothing and ill thrive in the chaos that is to come
I always wanted to split between Independent and NCR: Use the Securitron army to force the NCR to negotiate better terms for joining. We're a semi-autonomous region, we get priority on the power and water, etc. Make it a win-win for both sides, the NCR still gets something but doesn't take everything.
Very good video! Nice job
Well, what if you got rid of the factions that cause he others trouble?
There might be already vid but we need to have one about why Fallout New Vegas was hated so much in the first release but as 13 years later is regarded as classic and still popular game
AHH a new N_orte video
I wake up
Theres another piece of NCR Propaganda
its an rpg. is your courier a good leader?
do they continue to deal with problems in the mojave in the best possible way?
no? then yeah, independent sucks
but if ur character is just that good then independent is the best one
I told Yesman to Let the Brotherhood of Steel patrol the roads of the Mojave .
I told Yesman to wipe out the fiends , also to eliminate the Powder Gangers .
"Some kind of Thum from God." There was an easter egg to Skyrim .
In the end there were no gentile outcomes .