Soldering station technology & the lie of "SOLDERING PATRIOTISM"
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2018
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"Fahrenheit has more steps within the useful temperature range"
We have this brand new invention here called a decimal point
Was just about to make that exact same comment XD.
@Marcin Berman What are you talking about? "There is a fixed amount of digits" in between two chosen numbers? (E.g 1 & 2) Uhhh, no. There isn't. There is literally an infinite amount of numbers between 1&2. (or any other numbers)
@@Rudabaugh ...He means there's a fixed amount of digits in the display and the software that's controlling the temperature.
@@Thinwhiteduke1185 but i'm guessing Dave did not understand Marcin's comment because of how easy it is to add more digits to the screen.
lol congratulations, being so hung up about our systems of measurement. Must be really fulfilling
having done daily work with both a Hako 880D, Metcal automatic and an old Radio Shack Digital Weller clone I can honestly say that a classic ceramic core soldering pencil works just as well as the automatic integrated core system for surface mount work and most through hole. Unlike the integrated heating element system though, the separate core/tip last far longer. The hakko and the RS both never had an issue with their heating cores in 6 years, where as the metcal ate 100$ in tips a year. I'm willing to wait a few more seconds to heat up, if i dont have to buy an FX880 in tips every year....
yeah, but the JBC is so good for flexing on the gram
I just use a bic and bendy straws to solder my work
Dillon Nollid wait, you don't use a candle? You're fancy.
I use hot glue #Lifehack
I just phone a premium rate number and breathe heavily on my solder joints.
Dillon I use a pencil and a wall charger.
No More BS Please poppin them sockets huh? Lmao
I have a Hakko FX888D. It is ready to solder within 10-20 seconds depending on the job. I only paid about 100USD for it on amazon. I do not do a lot of soldering. I am only required to use it about 5-10 times weekly. But for my small workload it's the best bang for the buck. If I was doing Louis' workload of course I would want better. But if you're a hobbyist or have a small customer base, don't look any further than the Hakko FX888D. The issues that Louis describes with the temperature isn't nearly as big of a deal as he's making it out to be in those instances.
EDIT: Another point that Louis fails to mention is the cost of maintenance. We all know that a Hakko device is more than likely going to last longer than the Chinese knockoffs that he is promoting. That is not my argument here. What he fails to mention at all is the cost of the tips of the older tech FX888D vs the newer tech FX951-66. A tip for the old tech is approximately 5 bucks. The same tip in the new tech is over 4 times that at approximately 22 bucks. Tips go bad no matter how well you take care of them. If you go with the newer tech, the initial cost isn't the only premium you will be paying.
Now my original statement stands. If you have a heavy workload, then sure. Pay the premium and buy the better product. But if you don't need that . . . the FX888D is the best bang for the buck if you want genuine Hakko quality.
I started with an 888D as well, as a matter of fact I still regularly use it. However, one thing I would like to say is that the cartridge style of irons are in a completely different league. One day I got lucky and a friend told me about some FM-202's on eBay for $200. They came with the stand, brass sponge holder, 2027 handpiece, and the dumb little card to lock and unlock the station. Seller was willing to take best offers as well, so I asked if I could get one for $175, and I was able to. I was similar to you, not really doing that much soldering. Maybe 5-10 times a week. I'm still in that same zone actually. But once you try using one of these cartridge stations you'll just wonder how you ever put up with the older ones. I like the 888D, it's a great station, it really is. If it wasn't, I wouldn't still be using it as much as I do now. But the comfort and utility of the cartridge ones makes them completely worth it in my book.
The tips may be more expensive, but you'll be replacing tips on the cartridge ones just about as often as you would be on the older ones. It may be 4x more money per tip, but if you're replacing them once a year then it's not that much of a problem at all. Just having the ability to rapidly swap tips, while they're still hot and the station is still running, is a complete game changer. You might think "I never change tips", but when you have a handful of different tips to choose from and swapping to them takes all of 10 seconds, you'll inevitably find yourself changing them all the time as you progress through the repair.
Being able to swap to a knife tip after using a bevel without having to wait ten minutes is amazing. When I use the 888 I'm reluctant to change tips because I'll have to wait for it to cool down, or deal with handling a very hot chunk of metal and trying to secure a new tip on if I want to save time. So I just rarely find myself wanting to change tips when I use it. The real benefit of these cartridge stations is the incredible ease of changing tips, it makes your workflow so much simpler and less time consuming.
@@spartan456 I can definitely see the usefulness of changing tips on the fly. With that said, I would never do this. Specifically because I calibrate the temperature every time I change the tip using this:
www.banggood.com/DANIU-FG-100-Soldering-Iron-Tip-Thermometer-Temperature-Detector-Tester-0-700-p-952899.html?akmClientCountry=America&&cur_warehouse=CN
Don't get me wrong. I am all for saving time. But my soldering jobs are normally multi-tasking events. I recently built a few Mechanical keyboards. Took me like 4 days to make them all. But during that time, I took care of 100 other things that needed done.
Finally, for the price you paid . . . I would have done the same thing.
@@BaradaNels Something worth mentioning, a lot of these higher end stations actually calibrate the tip automatically. The T12/T15 tips from Hakko for example all have a barcode on the very end of them. On the FM-202, you can slide the tip's barcode end into a port on the station, and after a second or two it will recalibrate to a new profile specifically for that tip. It's actually super fancy.
But yeah, I can see what you're saying. If you wanted to ensure the tip is really working the way it's supposed to, you'd either have to get an external calibrator, or have a station like the FM-202 that can calibrate them automatically. If you don't have a station with built-in calibration, then you really won't be saving much time with the cartridge tips, since you'd have to use the external calibrator to check them anyway.
RE the multitasking, this is actually what I like so much about the cartridge stations. At work I regularly use my old 888D (I bought it myself and brought it to work after I bought the FM-202). The thing about my job is I am almost constantly interrupted. I'll sit down to start something and 30 seconds later I could have to turn everything off, get up, and do something else like talk on the phone or help a walk in customer. The 888D is super incompatible with this kind of constant, interrupting workflow. I turn the station on, it warms up, I tin it up, then I have to stop. I turn everything off because I have no idea how long I'll be away, it all cools down. I come back to it 5 or 10 minutes later and have to wait for it to all warm up again, re-tin everything, and hope I can solder what I need to before I get interrupted again.
The 202 on the other hand warms up in less than 10 seconds. If I have to shut my 202 off to go do something it's not that big of a deal, it'll be ready to go again in a negligible amount of time.
I would have to say that my biggest complaint is these types of irons have been around since, like, the late 80's and early 90's. They've been patented for at least 30 years, but there are VERY FEW consumer level irons that utilize the technology. With how long these irons have been around I would think that there would be way more consumer level ones that are cartridge based, but there just aren't that many at all. In fact, the only one I can think of is the PACE ADS200. And that is still $100 more than what I spent on the used FM-202. I was really happy to see a cartridge station appear in that price range because it's still pretty affordable, albeit on the high end. It would be great if more companies would do the same thing. Cartridge irons have been around for decades, there's no reason they should still be confined to $500+ stations.
@@spartan456 www.ebay.com/c/1331539188
Found an FM-202 for only 180 on ebay. Seller seems reputable. I will consider it. I still don't think my workload would ever require that . . . but having another iron on backup and taking my 888D to the office sounds like a good idea. Would need to buy another exhaust fan too. So another 50. We'll see. It's obviously a quality iron.
My 888 is working great for my hobbyist level stuff
I wonder what a little aluminum foil would go between the heater and the tip. I'm not gonna try it but would be interesting to see if it helps conduction.
Louis, have you tried the TS100? That thing is an absolute beast. It's marketed as portable, so you can power it from a battery or just a wall-wart. Even compared to full-fledged stations, it's still very impressive. Great example of where technology is at nowadays, and anything less for higher price is simply disappointing.
After hearing Louis talk about the heating element being in the tip i thought about the TS100 that could be a great option for someone like me that wants to solder his own keyboard and perhaps later on repair small electronics.
Check out Marco Reps where he compares it whit a Weller Like Louis he mentions the heating element around 03:45
ua-cam.com/video/HgrB5P-rDLw/v-deo.html
only thing that's missing is a nice low cost desoldering iron. The Hakko FR-301 is €300 i could go for the "aoyue-8800" that one is €165 even the larger Aoyue 474A++ is €179 instead of the more expensive Hakko FR-301.. De soldering is full size keyboard with a hand solder sucker seems a nightmare..
I have TS100 and i will not buy another iron for a long time. I pay $50.
do you use it for longer period say 1,5 hours ?? doing a large project?
I use it all day long, but at max 10 min. each soldering. More than that heat is transfer to the iron body. It is just 'incovenient' but hold it for an hour must be unconfortable...
I have a old-style Weller Magnastat station, and i am totally satisfied with it.
Not the most fancy thing ever, but it is extremely reliable.
I got this thing from a company i worked at over 10 years ago, and the company had used it for 10 years before that. Only thing i had to change in all those years were some tips, and since the tips don't have the heating element in them they are very cheap and can be swapped out in seconds.
The old technology stations are still worlds better than a $20 iron that just plugs into the wall.
I use the hakko fx888 every day at work with no issues. It heats up in a reasonable amount of time for what I do. I also have one at home that is overkill for home use. So maybe it’s just because I’ve never used a new technology station, but I have absolutely no issues with the fx888.
Plus replacement soldering tips are relatively cheap and readily available.
Although now I would like to use a new station just so I could really see how big of a difference it makes.
Which station do you use? I'm looking into getting one
In my country, the FX-951 costs around $450 after tax, while the FX-888D is $170 after tax.
Also, price isn't the only thing. When it comes to soldering stations, you might want to buy something that's not going to set your house on fire. You might want to buy something with a warranty. You might want to buy something that will last a while.
sometimes you want to buy something that can actually solder.
When looking for a source of the knockoff Hakko FX-951 I came across a number of even simpler and cheaper stations that seem to use the new technology, with quick heat-up times etc.. the nice thing is that they are even cheaper.. The common name I found is T12, which seems to be the type of tip connector/handpiece they use.
Still ended up getting an FX-888D.. Something about high temperatures and knockoff brands doesn't sit well with me
6:38
Haha - So weird seeing my comments on one of these vids.
It's tough to convey to people about what it's like using a "direct-heating" soldering station vs the older style with a separate heater.
Until I used a Metcal at work (about 15 years ago), I'd used many of the usual brands of iron, from Antex to Weller, including the cheapo mains irons and the expensive stations with big chunky transformers that heated up much faster.
But, I then used the direct-heat Metcal stuff for an hour or so per day, and I've never looked back.
I couldn't really justify the cost of a brand-new station for home use at the time, so I bought a second-hand SP-200 for only around £70 on eBay (including a chisel tip, handpiece, and stand). A few years later, I then saw an MX-500 station for only around £100 on eBay, and couldn't resist.
That was more than ten years ago now, and the MX-500 is STILL going strong.
The tips cost around £11-16 on average, but last easily 4 years or more if taken care of, which is much longer than most of the cheap mains irons last (at a similar cost to a new Metcal tip).
It's easy for people to say it's somehow "elitist" to champion the direct-heat stuff, and yes, they do cost a fair bit more new, but I guess you would have to try one for a few weeks to see the light. :p
Something like that 951 looks ideal at around $250, and I reckon it would pay for itself in no time.
So yes, IMHO, I would say that the extra $100-150 for a direct-heat soldering station is worth every penny. I don't think I'll ever go back to using the older style iron.
That's especially true if you don't mind buying second-hand, as the stations are generally very robust and reliable, so it's well worth taking a chance on one, as long as you're not relying on it for "mission critical" use. I sold two of my previous Metcal / OKI stations to friends over 4 years ago, and those stations are also still working great, even with the same original tips that were included.
Oh, wow, I hadn't even seen Dave's follow-up reply of "2nd-hand doesn't count" yet, as I just got back from a weekend break.
So, thanks for making a better point, Louis. lol
You're right - I would also much rather use a $100 knock-off station or second-hand direct-heat, OR just pay the extra $150 for something like the genuine Hakko 951 than use the older style tech, any day of the week.
I kind of expected some of the sillier replies on Dave's vid when I first posted on there, but I would bet that at least 60% of those people have never used both types of soldering tech over many years in both a production environment and at home before forming their opinions.
I don't think I'm too biased either, as I'd used all sorts of cheap AND very expensive soldering stations for many years before settling on a direct-heat system for personal use.
At the four different electronics factories I worked at (Nortel, Bookhams, AVX, and Syntech), they used the direct-heat stuff almost exclusively (Weller, Pace, Metcal / OKI, JBC etc.). I think that says a lot. lol
...but the 386 has a TURBO-Button! =)
jiddschdr Turbo down clocks the CPU anyway.
depends on the settings.
jiddschdr The 386 doesn't suffer from Spectre/Meltdown like the Pentium II and later.
doesn't matter that the turbo button turned down the clock to 4.77MHz. It was a button that said "turbo" on it and in the 80s-90s, that made anything awesome. :)
@@johnfrancisdoe1563 A security risk that no one has ever taken advantage of in the real world is a small price to pay for instruction pipelining
This guy is great! Got to love a tech guy with a personality-that simply talks no bs talk!
Louis, for CD stations from JBC (cheapest ones) you can connect both type of handpieces t245 (standard size) and t210 (for microsoldering), like you did with fx951
With Celsius you can use decimals for more precision where it's needed, but the scale reference points are what makes it better imho: 0 is freezing water, 100 is boiling water. You can easily gauge a temperature based on those limits, and even more precisely knowing that 37°C is body temp & 50 is sunny desert.
In Fahrenheit every reference point is random numbers: 96°F is internal body temp, 32°F is freezing water, 212°F is boiling water etc
Fahrenheit excels for outdoor weather. 0 is freaking cold, 100 is freaking hot. Whereas Celsius devolves into random numbers here: the same range is -17 to 37. A scale based around water's phase changes is useless for weather and human comfort. For everything else, sure. Celsius all the way. But weather in Fahrenheit or GTFO.
@@mjc0961 0°C gives great gauge of weather, if it goes under zero, you must expect snow or frozen rain instead rain, ice on roads etc.
@@mjc0961 Well said, I agree completely. With that said, I wish we would use the metric system for distance type of measurements.
@@mjc0961 -17 doesn't really differ from -16 or -18 in terms of comfort. There's no threshold there, or at 37 either. Sure it's fun to have barrels (32 gallons? depends which barrel after all it's different for wine or beer), fingers (7/8 inch, how intuitive) or even knots but it's not very practical, and even amusing how some try to hang onto these. I mean I like steam machines, but they belong in a museum...
@@bencze465 We talking Imperial gallons or US gallons???
No real problems with the FX-888D for a starter station, hell, some people may want to solder for crafts rather than electronics repair, for example, and something like an FX-888D is perfect for that purpose, if not overkill, and it's also fine for the hobbyist-level or low-volume electronics repair operations for which it was intended.
I have the JBC and it is possible to change the iron out. It has a DIN (or similar looking) connector at the back
I've used Pace, JBC, Metcal myself. All can get a bit warm after extended periods of use. Some Hakko irons even come with thicker 'antibacterial' rubber grips to counteract that, just like Pace has them for the TD-100, and JBC for the T245.
Goot soldering stations use the cartridge tips too. It would be great to have your impressions on them. There's a model that offers dual ports, with one being a high-output - 150W if I remember.
In my experience i was able to use a t210 iron on a t245 station(the "older" i guess CD type without a cover in the brass barbed wire)
"If you're holding them for, you know, five or ten or twenty minutes, they may start to kind of burn your hands"
I've got an Aoyue and even it doesn't do that.
I don't want to disappoint him, but I've never heard of this problem
@Louis Rossmann -- for PACE tweezers the "old tech" TT-65 are the ones where the handle gets hot -- there's special grips (which they should have installed by default instead of selling separately) available to mitigate this. The MT-100 cartridge tip tweezers don't have that problem that I'm aware of.
Thanks Louis,,,, I really like the honest tips you give on tools,,,,, It really helps
I've had some really bad irons.... but i love this one..... Thx Man
What's the cost of the tips and how often do you need to replace them?
Could you please compare ts100 to 951?
You can also build your own JBC station, just buy the tipholder and tip for 100$, build the rest yourself for 100$ and you have a JBC feel and quality for 200$.
You have to include the value of your time in that though.
JBC NANE Station, is this NT105 Nano Handpiece good for working with macbook mainboards - have enough power to soldering big ground pads etc?
I use the seeed mini soldering iron, any thoughts or experience? I'm only casual so I love it, especially how fast it heats up.
What I understand is, just wait 3 seconds with my old cheap soldering iron :)
Without integrated tip to heater element
Sure. But now solder a big chunky connector. Integrated heater tips are just immensely superior.
One thing I'd say about the JBC though is that it *still* has a better thermal capacity than the hakko IMHO. Your mileage may vary.
Toumal Rakesh nice input 👍 it does make sense.
After all it gets back to feasibility or worthiness
Absolutely. JBC is expensive, I love mine, but I honestly could've lived with the Hakko knockoff as well. The only real drawback is their user interface, which is terrible. "Alarm Clock Interface" indeed. A rotary encoder would be superior. Simple up/down buttons would've done the job. Like on the JBC. Thermal capacity may be bigger, but the question is whether it's $200 bigger...
+Toumal Rakesh Put on a chunky tip and/or raise the temperature. Sure, it's not as good as a JBC with a high thermal capacity tip, but it'll get the job done.
Of course if you're a professional that's an unacceptable waste of time, but if you're just a hobbyist, you can get by with $30 Hakko knockoff.
I prefer the weller but the WX series. Just due to also work on a lot of older stuff and well and having 200w is useful and built quality is better then the hakko I tried.
Solid reasoning to backup solid skills, your strategic vision is admirable.
I just use a cheap $20 60 watt soldering iron from eBay. Been using it for almost 10 years.. It gets to full temp in less than 10 seconds. As a hobbyist, why would you need any quicker?
Maybe if I was doing board repairs for a living I would get a "modern" soldering iron. But I honestly don't care if the heating element is built into the tip.
Try TS100 please!!!!
In using a weller wlc100-and wouldn't mind upgrading/ updating(?) To a digital would you go for the weller1010na or the hakko fx888d? I'm not really interested in buying a knock off but stuck for days on the two I had mentioned... Any inputs would be great
I bought a used Pace HW-50 (50w soldering station) for around 70$. It uses those tips with heating element integrated in them, you can still buy the tips for around 10$ each at reputable distributors. I also have an original Hakko 936 - the benefit of those Hakko 888 is that they're basically refreshes of Hakko 936 (while officially tips are different in practice you can still use tips for hakko 936 including cloned tips you can find on ebay at x dollars for 10pcs set)
Louis, I suggest You look into Quicko T12-952 It's the c heapest soldering iron, which uses hakko tips, has a motion detector in the handle to put it to sleep after few minutes, better interface and an oled display for less than 50 $$$$$, I'm using it in my repair shop for 4 months now and for this price I can't imagine it getting any better.
This new technology might be interesting, but I will keep my cheap (~40€) ZD-937. It needs a little bit longer to heat up, but it will do the job it has to do. I have gotten 3 machines for less than the one you recommended. ZD-937 (~40€), Desolderingstation ZD-915 (~80€) and a hot air station 858D+ (30€).
this is really helpful, since i can use the sweet Pace(mbt350, and the hot tweezers never burn our hands) rig at work, i want something better at home and want something cheaper than the full out station. while i like the pace, i am not married to a brand yet.
the MBT 350 has 3 channels, our set-up uses one for the iron, one for the hot air or the solder sucker, and one for hot tweezers. this put 3 devices in one unit and helps with bench space.
I had the JBC stand alone station, you can use different handles micro and the bigger one.
Louis , I want to thank you for all the things I've learned with you, you are a great teacher!...but sometimes you repeat so many times the same thing that I fall into sleep :)
South Park “they took our jobs” hahhahaha
Do the Pace stations have the heating element and sensor integrated with the ceramic?
I'm a hobbyist. I've been using a cheap hakko 936 knock-off iron, the Yihua 939D (75W). It holds temp very well and heats up quite fast. It has been very reliable. Does it work and fit all my needs? Abso-fucking-lutely yes. Do I need any of the new tech crap? No. however, I do have the TS-100 because I was fascinated by the fact that the firmware is open-source.
So if you're just starting out, maybe all you need is something just like the Yihua 939D for about $30-40.
As someone with not-so-steady hands, i love me some Metcal MX-500. It has the shortest tip i have seen and makes things very easy for me, while with the regular length tips, i could not solder nearly as good.
What's your opinion on Metcal stuff? I only ask because at work, I use a Metcal SP200 for production soldering.
Would you get the $100 Chinese Hakko knock off or the $50 KSGER that can use hakko tips, can be modded to use JBC irons and has a better UI?
great video Louis,
I've not spent $256 on all the irons I own and 4 I've had over thirty years, I have about 8 irons and the dearest is a $50 weller, I'd like to afford better irons but so far the ones I've got have done everything I need, ok it may take a minute to heat up but hopefully I'll live around 80 years so 1 minute is fine
I do have a question though. I burn through tips quite often.
How much would you pay for a tip, that is just a tip that you put over your element, vs a tip, that has an element built in?
The iron I actually use most often is an Antex XS25. it's a stick a plug in a socket and go, not even temperature controlled.
a good budget soldering station is KSGER T12, it uses hakko 951 tips and soldering iron and can be found for around $50
The FX-951 has a build in AMD FX CPU. Or how do you think it even reaches such temperatures?
This was really helpful. I have a low budget (I'm a teenager with a min. wage job) and I was about to buy an fx-888 instead of a hakko t12 tip station made by a company called KSGER but now I think I will change my mind. I guess I was more motivated by the hakko brand name than anything else.
I would say go for the KSGER T12 tip station. I am a university student who has been using a cheap $20 soldering iron for over 10 years and I finally decided to look into a better soldering station. I honestly wish I knew about the KSGER and other affordable t12 tip compatible stations earlier. I thought that good soldering stations still cost $250+ so I just stuck with my $20 station which would take forever to heat up and only has one tip making it impossible to work with anything that has a lot of densely packed pins. Only recently did I discover that there are a lot more options on the market. I honestly feel so dumb that I put up with cave man era tools instead of finding the time to do some research.
@@CompGuy66 thanks for the comment. I got it a couple months ago and I'm LOVING it. It takes, at most, 5 seconds to warm up. And the tip to handle distance is fantastic. My only issue is the temperature fluctuates a little (±5 degrees) but that might be my fault because I tried to calibrate it and I didn't know I needed a soldering iron thermometer. Other than that it's a fantastic piece of kit.
I still use a 30W Radio Shack iron made by Ungar (the one with the screw-on tips). WIth the fine tip (0.0625" chisel point) it does not take too long to recover between joints. With wider tips, even less. If I did as much soldering as you do, I'd probably want something better. This has caused me to consider a Hakko if I find myself needing a temperature-controlled station. Thanks for doing this.
Been waiting for this video since you posted that comment
Louis after hearing you talk about the heating element and the tech behind it. i wanted to ask you about the TS100 OpenSource portable soldering iron. it uses the same tech you mentioned here..
if i understand you correctly buying that $66 soldering iron would be better than a FX-88D.
my use case is soldering a couple of mechanical keyboards getting in to the hobby..
Here's a nice vid about the TS100 it stars getting interesting around 01:35
Would love to hear your opinion perhaps even try one out ?????
The only problem of TS100 is the difficulty of grounding the tip. But if you invest some time, it will be fairly ok.
The PACE rework station I use at work is excellent - but it cost NZ$3,500.
I am waiting for a t12 soldering iron to arrive, I will most likely have to mod it (it depends on how the chinese fab house does it), but it costs 1/10 of the hakko and takes the same cartriges as the hakko and based on some videos it does quite a good job.
While it seems that is a pricey hot air station from Pace, I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Pace ADS200, which also appears to compete with the JBC and Hakko 951.
Hello Louis! Is TS -100 soldering iron comparable to FX-951 soldering station?
Thank you Louis for enlightening me!
I have a 50+ year old Weller station (well older than me) with the 4 prong offset plug. It was originally in the navy, then spent time in a lab and now its on my desk (I'm the 3rd owner). I used it the other day and found that something wasn't right. Either an element or the magnastat is going out. I get a good hr of use before it starts to malfunction. Model # TCP-1. I hop to fix it up as my de-solder rig. It still has the de-solder bulb attachment, chisel scraper and dip remover. Due to it's age, I'm not going to trust it with my MCU projects but i like using really old stuff in every practical way.
I have an fx888D and it works just fine. I had a shitty $15 iron before and it’s a major upgrade. Besides the tips are nice, last long and are easy to replace.
You can use any ripoff station because integrated tips are great, even just a cheap "12-24v 75w mini adjustable handle," which I use with a solar panel for outdoor soldering.
Another TS100 convert here, after owning two traditional soldering stations. The first thing I did after trying mine out was order another one to have a backup in case the unthinkable happens. I needed something that could do high power joints because I work a lot with drones (whose main power wires can easily carry 100+A), and once you crank up the temperature the TS100 *will* do them - which is nothing short of miraculous when you consider how tiny it is. And of course it's an excellent all-round iron, good for SMD work too if you order the special narrow tip.
still on ts100 after 4 years ? or you founded something better ?
@@GlishaSo I now mostly run a KSGER T12. It's a fixed soldering station so a little more ergonomic for benchtop work, also it runs cheaper T12 tips. But I still have my two TS100 as backups and if I need to solder somewhere else. However, there is a better portable iron today - the Pinecil v2, effectively an evolution of the TS100.
@@fallingwater ok cool i love to see that i am on same way i had 1 ts100 and before few months i purchased T12 and now using them both how i feel but yeah t12 have cheaper tips and its own power. nice yeah i saw pinecill v2 its sick but still i think i am good with this one and will wait maybe little more for it or not change it at all we will see :) and to be honest these days im fighting to find good soldering wire in EU idk. sometimes mechanic from ali is ok but still searching for good one. i had 250g old one loctite it was amazing but now idk if you have some rly good to recommend tell me :) tnx
I have an Atten 980d that I use for a lot of through hole stuff, it heats up quickly (much quicker than those in Dave’s video), the tips work fine and cost very little... but I also have a Metcal MX 5241 which is a noticeable step up but with more costly consumables. I actually picked the Atten up as a cheap backup iron but I actually have both in use and setup for different jobs.
I have the same as you. But i just regret that a little. I bought some tips but the tips of the hakko one of louis are much better.
So this Atten works well despite the old technology but the tips aren’t perfects.
When it will get money back of using it, i will buy the hakko one.
Homer Simpson it uses the same tips as the Hakko 888d but I’ve actually found the temperature stability to be superior to the Hakko (the Atten 980 has a dedicated temperature sensor (unlike the cheaper but identical looking Atten irons). The Metcal will always be better (it shouldn’t be at £900) but the Atten still gets use!
Please quit overusing the word actually. Thank you.
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Stinky Cheese okay... actually on second thoughts...
Damn, Cliff really got Louis started on the brand theme :D
I have a Weller 1010NA and I love that thing. Mine heats up really fast and always works great. Mind you I am not a professional but it far exceeds my usages.
Hi Louis, would you consider reviewing one of the Quick 202D stations? They are similarly priced at ~$130 and they aren't knockoffs.
Review the TS 100 please!
If you have a good sensor position and know your system, you can get a very close temperature control on the "old" technology.
You just have to avoid simple regulator types.
Edit:
Time to reaching the 350°C target temperature is mostly defined by the power of the reating element... So JBC implemented stronger heating elements. Great.
I bought myself a used Metcal MX-500 (the old one without the display) for 150€, probably one of my best investments ever.
Hi but can you yust buy need soldering iron and kept the base?
i use a soldering iron about once a month, my weller wlc100 does fine for me, and it is only 40 bucks.
I went for the JBC and happy i did.. cost me a lot of money but it will last me forever. The Hakko 951 is 368 euro here which is what the JBC cost so i went for the JBC.
I went back from a station with the element in the tip (Metcal crap around 700 euro, I had 2 of them) to a station with the heating element not in the tip. Even worse, the tips are fixed with a screw. Being my antique over 20 year old Pace MBT-250 Dropping temp while soldering ? If so it was and is never been a problem. I can desolder like 200 joints without any problem and soldering too. I have it at 320 celcius and I can solder shielding tins or massive ground planes without any problem. If it drops it is only a few degrees. It takes time to heat up but that means it also takes time to cool down ;-)
OK this station cost serious money but for me as a professional repair tech it is the ducks guts. Tips cost little and last for ever. Changing them is easy. They still sell parts and I have never used a better desoldering iron as the SX100.
I do not say all cartridge tip stations are crap, I say that not all old-fashioned stations style stations are crap. But wait until all cheap crappy stations are the cartridge types. That cheap crap stations with the heater not in the tip do not work very well, does not mean the principle sucks.
You are not only one who have that experience, PACE is hard to beat, I tested JBC and from my experience (and what I hear from people who have use/try both) "old" PACE technology is much superior to "new" JBC.I tested JBC simply because on internet many people say it is great soldering iron and I do not argue with that, and it is superior to Hakko or Weller and many others, but at end I just bought another PACE which is much better (from my experience) even I was never big fan of PS-90 handle.
Here PACE is not popular (here Ersa, JBC and Metcal are most popular, even Weller is more popular PACE even all agree that new Weller are crap compared to old Weller), but everyone who so some "serious" work/production (and have money) and try PACE switched to it.
You can dump a lot of power in to heat slowly with poor thermal contact, it does not imply thermal mass. Just because it heats slowly, doesn't mean it will cool slowly. And no, I'm not criticising your Pace - I'm just pointing out a faulty assumption.
And my 25+ year old Metcal does just fine.
General speaking you are right, good to mention. However, I was only talking about my Pace PS-90 sensatemp and SX100 sensatemp powered by a MBT-250 (black edition ;-) )
A cartridge heater is no warranty for a good station. The sense part must be in the right place, be the right type. It must have enough power and a fast enough controller . There is a larger part of the tip exposed so possible more loss. For the budget brands still lots off possibilities to fool the customer. I only buy original tips but it is not to hard to make usable knockoffs . I sometimes make my own tips for special purpose. But a knock-off cartridge is a much bigger risk, not only regarding how long is will work but for cartridge irons the tips design is a big part of the performance.
My Metcals were superfast and bizar powerful. I did like that but cartridges where almost 40 euro's . The desolderpumps were worn after 1,5 years. I worn down 3 hoof cartidges, they still looked like new but the coil part was open. Two handpieces. The fist after a few months, the second after 1,5 years. The cable became over 100C. I known problem but after 1.5 years and a burned arm no guaranty. The desolder gun is also replaced within a year and I wore down 4 tips. But to be fair, I have an OKI/Metcal hot air station, I think I have it around 8 years now and not a single problem. My back-up station for the last 10 years (and for SMD because it is not als bulky as the Pace PS-90,) station is a Weller WS-81. Not the thermal performance of the Pace but very usable. Replaced the tip-sleeve once (5 euro) , still the same tips I bought when I bought the station.
I use them for hobby (restoring testgear, Tubes, RF stuff, most hings I build are dead bug on groundplanes) and work (repairing measurement and calibration gear)
so where's the link for the Hakko FX-951 knock off?
Will an FM-2027 plug in to the 951 knock off station?
After watching a few reviews on youtube I've just bought a KSGER station that is compatible with the Hakko T12 tips and it is the most comprehensive solder station I have ever used and allows you to calibrate multiple different tips. Not only that, the solder pencil is way better constructed and much more reliable than the knockoff pencils which can be very intermittent. Also the Hakko user interface is totally brain dead and a real pain to use. I have two of those knockoff fx-951 stations and they have now been put back in their boxes and are now sitting in storage. But I agree the fx-951 and other direct heat technology is far superior to the old style heater element sense technology. But you forgot to mention Metcal which came out over a decade ago which I believe uses RF induction heating and curie temperature monitoring directly at the tip. Also I might add I have a PACE sens-a-temp iron and it has been my workhorse iron for more than a decade. PACE maybe expensive but it's still a good reliable quality product and I believe they have a new direct heat technology iron. I believe you should support your local manufacturing as much as you can because a service based economy repairing stuff won't carry an economy and make it prosperous. Only value adding can do this. The chinese know this and is why they are so keen to steal manufacturing jobs from anyone they can.
i use pace desoldering irons because they are the best i have ever used also they have had the element built into the tip since like 1983. i will say the pace tips don't last as long as they should though.
Soldering stations are like welding machines. Most hobbyists don't know even expensive industrial welding power sources are treated as "consumables" in production and especially construction. They exist to join metal and that they produce sufficient number of proper joints for their cost that is all that matters.
Either machine needs only to last long enough and produce enough quality joints!
Pace make nice stuff but for the cost you could equip most of a workbench, get going, and should they wish to buy a Pace they can AFFORD them.
There isn't a hell of a lot inside a Pace or anything else. I just dissected a dead one to save the case for a project box and while the components are clearly industrial quality and I can afford one I will not be buying from them because that extra money will put much more equipment on my workbench! The high price delta means a customer can have a ready spare and still have change left over.
That old technology works just fine for me
I can't believe you figured out how to fix macs after watching you trying to figure out how to read a products details page
The 50$ TS100 (available on ebay and aliexpress) uses the same technology and is very compact.
Wondering if the Hakko FM2023-05 SMD Mini Tweezer will work with the fake hakko fx0951? Might be a more cost effective option. Great reviews as always.
IMO, all irons, even in the $100 price range, should use tip cartridges. They don't seem to cost more to make.
I repair music equipment, older guitar amps with point-to-point wiring, old thru-hole PCB's and some newer, smaller stuff. I've been using a Weller EC1002 station for 25-30 years. I want to get a new iron with faster recovery. Considering the FX-951. Also, I'm wondering how the new Pace ADS200 will be? The FX-951 is 75W. The Pace is 120W which for my use, may be better with higher thermal mass tips. The Hakko comes with a setback stand which is optional for exta cost with Pace. Do I need a setback stand? Probably not.. The Pace will sleep after 10 minutes. The Hakko is hugely popular with parts availability galore. Will the Pace become popular? BTW, the transformers used in Pace are Chinese made. A lot to consider. I think I'll wait for the reviews of the new Pace station before deciding.
lol @ $100 station. As a hobby guy I'm using a $12 ceramic core style amazon china iron. I finally know part of the reason I've been struggling so much.
The ERSA i-Tool is pretty much the best of both worlds... Separate heating-element and Tip but with the Sensor placed very close to the tip.
Kinda sad that they aren't more popular outside of Europe because they do make some quite nice tools.
www.farnell.com/datasheets/57060.pdf
What do you think about the chinese TS100 soldering iron? I bought this as a hobbyist and for only 56$ you get a soldering iron with the heater in the tip with new tips costing around 12$.
So far I can't complain about it tho i can't imagine that as a professional it's ideal.
Thank you for not buying into the hype.
I thought you were going to promote it.
But as a user of the old style hakkos. All I really care about is that it just works.
The complaints about not wanting to spend a couple hundred dollars due to poverty are, to me, a bit irritating. I'm on disability, and while I'm immensely grateful to my province for allowing me to not be dying slowly on the streets in complete abject poverty, I don't exactly have a wide margin of error in my personal budget. I have to contribute to supporting my family, pay for housing and all other expenses on a comparatively tiny amount of money, especially in a very expensive Canadian city.
I have been putting away small amounts of money, once a month, in an envelope for almost a year and a half, since I started watching YT electronics videos and learning, from scratch, everything there is to know about both modern and 'antique' electronics. Most months, I'm able to save $20 or so, and with patience and mental resistance to spending the saved money, I'm within a few months of being able to put together a rudimentary lab and start playing with this stuff. Ideally, I hope to be able to make some of my own money with this knowledge (thanks to Louis) and support myself despite being unable to work a normal job due to major health issues.
I understand I'm quite blessed to have a government willing to help me, and I also understand that even in more wealthy nations, there are many people in far worse poverty than I am. If you really want this, however, it is absolutely worth your time and a few dollars a month to save up slowly and patiently; the knowledge here is worth tons of money if properly applied, and if you've been wstching these videos from people like Louis and Dave Jones, you've been given a ticket to tons of profit with in detail explanations on every aspect of running this kind of business for absolutely free. In the not to distant past, all this knowledge available here on YT would have cost tens of thousands of dollars and at least four years in a university.
If you are serious at all about this, even as a hobby, you can amass the money for gear that is slighty more expensive than the lowest hanging fruit, for a massive increase in quality; you even have access to detailed knowledge and reviews about these products here, again, for free. I know this will piss some people off who feel they still won't ever be able to afford this stuff, but I suggest anyone who feels they can't to just try putting a few dollars away each month. You'll be surprised how quickly it feels like you grow your savings and the end investment is absolutely worth it, even if it takes a few years.
The point is why spend two to three times as much on a soldering iron when the cheaper one will work just fine? Here the 951 is at least 2.5x as expensive as the 888. The 888 is already quite expensive by local standards. Budget variable soldering irons can be had for a quarter of the price. And they're what most people buy because even the cheapest Hakko is a luxury.
This video reminds me of what happened to your bike battery pack. Was the knock off worth it then?
JBC - BT-2BWA is 10€ chaper then FX-951 in EU
I spent less than 5 dollars for my soldering iron including shipping :(
I bought mine for 27 and remember thinking a lot should i buy it because i dont use it too much
Mine was 20. But I assume we're not professionals. Mine wouldn't satisfy the needs of someone soldering the whole day. But for some amateurish work every few months cheap stuff should be enough. Also I'm not American so all this patriotism doesn't matter at all. The only consideration would be: is it safe? What about warranty?
Would like to hear your thoughts on the Hakko FX-100
These days you can buy lots of different controllers for T12-T15 hakko tips for around 20 USD or less. Kits to build a small soldering station (box, encoder, connectors, a tip and holder) can be had for about 35 USD. You need a power supply, but still, over-all you can have Hakko soldering quality for about 50USD or maybe less. You can also buy fake Hakko tips for about 3USD/piece and they work amazingly well! I have several of them and for a hobbyist, this is more than enough.
The TS100 is even a better package with a much smaller desk footprint and perhaps better ergonomic!
People I know don't normally spend money on the hot air station, they just buy the rework station that has supplies for air and vacuum. The MBT-301 and MBT-350 being the primary two for all-in-one units.
8:30 Thats strange to see. I have the FX888D and it gets up to temp waaaaay faster than that. When you tell it to go up to 750 degrees (F) from nothing, it gets up there in like 3 seconds.
It’s not ultra quickly. It’s just faster than this.
Back in the ancient days I used a Weller workstation with a little temp dial and a pencil iron with chisel slug tip, and it would solder heavy 16 gauge wires into sockapex stage lighting connectors, all day long. 24 wires per connector.
And the English fractional system is mostly far superior for too many technical reasons to list. We never should have gone metric. The reasons were mostly silly.
Would you recommend weller ?
Any comments on these eddy current based soldering irons?
I just want to know why Hakko sells the FX-950 analog station in every other marketing region EXCEPT for NA! They even show in the parts list, a 120v transformer, so it's not like they couldn't sell it here in NA.....