For the past 4 days I’ve been looking for a video to time my 5.4 engine and everything else on UA-cam sucked. This is an awesome video will teach you a lot
I agree also, better safe than sorry on the RTV. Would hate to go to all that labor of putting it together and installing in a car and only to find a leak. Thank you for another great and informative video.
Sorry, I am a shade tree mechanic. Have been for about 35 years. My first engine i rebuilt was a 1982 Honda 185S 3 wheeler. Since then, I've done all my own work until about 8 years ago when I had the money to pay for someone else to do it. When i retired from military service, I started a home service business and purchased a CNG van. 2008 Ford E350 super Duty XLT 5.4L 2V 87K miles. I purchased it broken with only 7 cylinders actually firing. C5 was bad. I purchased the van because at the time, CNG was a $1 gallon when ever where else in CA was $3.75 a gallon. What I didn't research was a place that would fix the problem. I searched high and low for a repair shop that would take it on. Even dealerships wouldn't even take it in. I found one in LA but the mechanic was over booked for about 9 months dealing with ATT Fleet vans. BTW, that is what i purchased. A ATT fleet van. I called the company in Texas called Westport that did the conversion. For about 2 years, I could not figure out why C5 was misfiring. Checked all wiring and ECM, Injectors COPS and vacuum leaks compression test. Then while scouring the net, I came across a video to check to see if your exhaust valves were bad by placing a rag over the tail pipe, If it gets sucked in at all, bad exhaust valves and guides. When I took off the cat convertors, the substrate was completely melted through so I busted the rest out. removed the head and had a shop do the valve job. this was 2020. 90k miles later, the same thing happened while returning from Texas headed to CA. I went to see solar eclipse totality back in May of this year. Upon my return, I noticed it was running like it was back in 2020 but not as bad and figured I tackle the problem early. Pulled off the convertors and the substrate fronts were melted over but the damage was already done. The iron exhaust valve guides melted. So this time, I did everything I could to reduce the rick of melt down again. Durobond valve seats D7000 designed for CNG generators and iron valve guides. I've also been negotiating with CARB to modify a bad exhaust design so I can run convertors without them being melted over time. CNG burns 350F hotter than gasoline and is at the very threshold of substrate melting. The CA DMV referee's told me it takes a lot to melt a convertor. I explained to the ref that any RPM's above 3K and under load will blow torch the substrate. Its happened twice so far. Now the Refs. tell me to just buy a new van. My request was to move the front convertor back about 12 inches to keep the flames off of it. Now at this point, I plan to run dirty after smog. Besides, I dont see convertors on gas stoves or gas hot water tanks. I have learned a ton about CNG since 2018. It wasn't until this job I noticed a ton of play in bank one chain when turning the crank by hand to make sure valves weren't hitting pistons. The video I sent you was the first video I watched about timing chain replacement. Then i found the subtle differences in the tensionors and tensionor guides. All this time, I never paid attention to where they go and so far, never had a problem.
Thanks for sharing! I have not done much with CNG. The only one I have ever touched was a fleet vehicle for metro cars. That was a late 2000s dodge caravan. Converters can and do take a lot of heat, but even with gas, if you have a misfire or are burning oil, it can cause the same melting problem in the converters. I do think places like CA and CO go a little too far with smog requirements. I do understand they have highly populated cities that smog does become an issue, but when you start talking CARB compliant converters and sometimes even putting air pumps to the exhaust it causes more harm to the engine then good. These converters have smaller channels in the catalyst to make them more effiecent, but cause way more backpressure due to the restriction. Some, not all, cadillacs with the 4.6L Northstar are a prime example of the nonsense that would be required for those areas. I am lucky enough to live in an area where smog tests are not required. A question for you: How is the mileage using CNG compared to gas? Is it cheaper to run this way? The buses in my city run CNG, so I would assume they would go with the cheaper option, but really, I don't know and have never looked it up.
@@VZGarage360 About 13 miles per GGE. Gasoline Gallon Equivalent. City buses and garbage trucks have engines specifically designed to burn methane. Personal vehicle retro companies only request the manufacturer to install high temp valves and iron valve guides. The valve seats remain the same. I read something some time ago about how city buses run convertors with out burning them up due to the higher temp fuel they burn. I believe there are 2 exhaust systems. One for take off and one for cruise. I think thats that noise you hear city buses make when they take off. The switching of exhaust systems as they accelerate. Conversions do not address the exhaust system. Why i have this problem with burning up convertors is hills and loads. Sustained RPM's of over 3K and under load is a high enough temp to melt the front portion of the substrate. Then it snow balls from there once a few of those combs melt over. The only way I know the convertor is going bad is my LTFT's start going up due to valve seats going bad. There is also lots of heat erosion on the valve's and seats. Every time I inspect the valves, they are pitted and a grove was formed in the valve. I've been reading about CNG for about 6 years now. Its very common for a valve job every 80K in CNG conversions like normal service intervals. Duro bond the valve seat company has new metal alloys for valve seats in CNG generators. How i know that any RPM above 3K burns convertors is the fact that CNG generators never run above 2.7K Rpms to avoid heat erosion and convertor melt downs. So, If I'm on the highway going up a 10 mile hill, I better do 20mph to avoid melting them. I'm done trying to legally move the convertor back 6 inches. Every response i get from the state is get a new vehicle. Just going to ride dirty. Besides, I've looked at CNG emissions for vehicles. It's nothing compared to gasoline vehicles. I dont see convertors on anything else that burns methane. I'm all for the environment. It was one of the reason why i bought it. However, since the state doesn't want to work with me, I have since dumped my ambition to be clean.
@@VZGarage360 I wanted to return to this comment to inform you that if the tensionors are mismatched or guides, there is a strong possibility the right side chain bumps the reluctor wheel as it has done with my 5.4l. I just did a valve job and during the rebuilt, I noticed some rubbing on the wheel. It wasn't too bad and the magnets were all still there however, since i completed the rebuild and relearned the ECM, I have the same exact symptoms as before. Once I read about the crank trigger, I am fully convinced this is the problem. A microscopic deviation can have large impact on injectors and ignition. I didn't know this. It also explains my LTFT +30 Bank 1 +15 Bank 2. Bank 1 is where the main portion of the bend is on the trigger wheel. Bank 2 is either on the beginning or the end of the bend. If you like, I can send you pics. of the damage. The damage is very minor but enough to cause timing issues.
Damage like this is very common on the trigger wheel. Especially with an engine that has high mileage. The tensioners become loose and allow the chain to slap the trigger wheel. I have seen a couple that were bad enough to create a groove in the oil pump. One was bad enough that it cut a hole in the oil pump, causing a lack of oil pressure in the engine. That one of course had spun bearings as a result. The vehicle also had 250k+ for mileage. Most of these engines were not opened up at all, so the timing that was done to them came from the factory. Based on this, I have a hard time believing switching the 2 guides would cause this damage.
I love these videos man. I've got an old 2 valve mustang that I'm wanting to freshen up. These videos are extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain so many little details!
Nice work. Very good job with the explanations. I agree with putting silicone or RTV on the gaskets joints and or seems. I am a new subscriber to your channel. Thanks for sharing. 👍 Have a great weekend.
Felpro rep told me the same thing when I called about our Jeep 4.0L oil pan gasket and I listened to them. Needless to say I had to take the oil pan back off and redo it with rtv. It leaked at all four corners the service stated need the rtv.
I have need of a good piston ring clamp have watched you video on short block rebuild .love the way you explain things I tried the old grenade one did not work for me would you tell me what clamp you bought so I could get one thank you
This is the exact tool I used in that video. shop.snapon.com/product/Ring-Compressors/Ring-Compressor-Set-(Blue-Point)/RC980 This one would be comparable from Amazon. OTC 4838 Piston Ring Compressor Set - 6-Piece a.co/d/5B92ZKi
I just finished a rebuild on 5.42 valve and after timing it I notice the chain riding high on the cam gears is this normal I bought a melling timing set. Hate to see all this go up in a pile of metal savings. Can I send you a picture via text or messenger being 68 my knowledge seems to have slipped a little.chain is riding high coming on to the chain any help you can give me is appreciated. Also thank you for your service.
I replaced everything timing wise and my passenger side has a lot of slack at a certain point of spinning the motor like a lot of slack not slight I drove it for about a month and it happened do I just need new timing or what caused that??
Were the plastic tensioners used during the timing chain replacement? This is a common problem for these specifically. These will only make the chain tight when it sees oil pressure, so with the engine running. As soon as the engine is turned off, the oil pressure will bleed off and make the chain loose. This is why I like using the steel tensioners with the push out locks.
@@VZGarage360 Not to mention the crank sprocket is small and the cam sprocket is large. Turning by hand is very different than when its running. Constant tension on the bank 2 chain.
I watched another video of 5.4 timing chain replacement. The double marked links go on top and the single mark link at the crank. Also, the tensionors are opposite. They labeled them as viewed from the front. Bank one gets right side and bank 2 gets left side. The tensionor guides are correct. The fatter guide goes on bank 2 side. I also very closely looked at the tensionor and they are different by an 1/8". ua-cam.com/video/YgTHXV3DXxI/v-deo.html He also explains why the single colored link goes at the bottom.
I watched this video and did not see or hear why the single mark goes to the bottom. In my opinion, it does not matter as their are the same number of links on either side, and I have built hundreds of these both ways, and it did not affect how it ran. For anything on a car, right and left are determined based on when you are sitting in the driver's seat of the car. An example is, where is the left front wheel? It would be the driver side front. The same thing goes for everything on the engine. Try looking up a left side head. It will be the driver's side for the results. Also, in my video, Bank 1 did get the right side tensioner. Bank 1 on these engines is the passenger side head. The only difference between these tensioners is that the left side has a bump in the casting on the opposite side of the plunger. My video is designed to show that the camshaft lockdown tools are not necessary for doing timing on these engines. It is also very unlikely that the valves will be open fully unless a lockdown tool is being used, keeping the peak of a lobe on the lasher adjuster. Not using this tool allows for flexibility to move the crank without causing major damage to the valves. Of course, this does not mean you can fully rotate the crank when the camshafts are installed. If you want proof that building it this specific way does in fact run without problems, here is the video where I installed this engine in a Mustang and started it up for the first time. ua-cam.com/video/mcRGRQRJDno/v-deo.htmlsi=2MzgiRN7QQVEnDMG
@@VZGarage360 Thank you for your reply. After careful review, the only difference between video's is tensionor guide placement. Does it really matter? Its difficult to see but you have the tabbed guide on bank 1. I understand this is interference engine and i dont want to get it wrong.
When comparing both side by side, the dimensions and curve are identical. The only visual difference I see on them is that one has the tab. As long as the chain is tight, there should be no problems with having the chain jump time.
For the past 4 days I’ve been looking for a video to time my 5.4 engine and everything else on UA-cam sucked. This is an awesome video will teach you a lot
Thanks for the comment! I am happy this video was helpful!
I agree also, better safe than sorry on the RTV. Would hate to go to all that labor of putting it together and installing in a car and only to find a leak. Thank you for another great and informative video.
Thank you for the comment! I am glad you enjoyed the video!
Sorry, I am a shade tree mechanic. Have been for about 35 years. My first engine i rebuilt was a 1982 Honda 185S 3 wheeler. Since then, I've done all my own work until about 8 years ago when I had the money to pay for someone else to do it.
When i retired from military service, I started a home service business and purchased a CNG van. 2008 Ford E350 super Duty XLT 5.4L 2V 87K miles. I purchased it broken with only 7 cylinders actually firing. C5 was bad. I purchased the van because at the time, CNG was a $1 gallon when ever where else in CA was $3.75 a gallon. What I didn't research was a place that would fix the problem. I searched high and low for a repair shop that would take it on. Even dealerships wouldn't even take it in. I found one in LA but the mechanic was over booked for about 9 months dealing with ATT Fleet vans. BTW, that is what i purchased. A ATT fleet van.
I called the company in Texas called Westport that did the conversion. For about 2 years, I could not figure out why C5 was misfiring. Checked all wiring and ECM, Injectors COPS and vacuum leaks compression test. Then while scouring the net, I came across a video to check to see if your exhaust valves were bad by placing a rag over the tail pipe, If it gets sucked in at all, bad exhaust valves and guides. When I took off the cat convertors, the substrate was completely melted through so I busted the rest out. removed the head and had a shop do the valve job. this was 2020.
90k miles later, the same thing happened while returning from Texas headed to CA. I went to see solar eclipse totality back in May of this year. Upon my return, I noticed it was running like it was back in 2020 but not as bad and figured I tackle the problem early. Pulled off the convertors and the substrate fronts were melted over but the damage was already done. The iron exhaust valve guides melted. So this time, I did everything I could to reduce the rick of melt down again. Durobond valve seats D7000 designed for CNG generators and iron valve guides.
I've also been negotiating with CARB to modify a bad exhaust design so I can run convertors without them being melted over time. CNG burns 350F hotter than gasoline and is at the very threshold of substrate melting. The CA DMV referee's told me it takes a lot to melt a convertor. I explained to the ref that any RPM's above 3K and under load will blow torch the substrate. Its happened twice so far. Now the Refs. tell me to just buy a new van. My request was to move the front convertor back about 12 inches to keep the flames off of it. Now at this point, I plan to run dirty after smog. Besides, I dont see convertors on gas stoves or gas hot water tanks. I have learned a ton about CNG since 2018.
It wasn't until this job I noticed a ton of play in bank one chain when turning the crank by hand to make sure valves weren't hitting pistons. The video I sent you was the first video I watched about timing chain replacement. Then i found the subtle differences in the tensionors and tensionor guides. All this time, I never paid attention to where they go and so far, never had a problem.
Thanks for sharing!
I have not done much with CNG. The only one I have ever touched was a fleet vehicle for metro cars. That was a late 2000s dodge caravan. Converters can and do take a lot of heat, but even with gas, if you have a misfire or are burning oil, it can cause the same melting problem in the converters.
I do think places like CA and CO go a little too far with smog requirements. I do understand they have highly populated cities that smog does become an issue, but when you start talking CARB compliant converters and sometimes even putting air pumps to the exhaust it causes more harm to the engine then good. These converters have smaller channels in the catalyst to make them more effiecent, but cause way more backpressure due to the restriction. Some, not all, cadillacs with the 4.6L Northstar are a prime example of the nonsense that would be required for those areas. I am lucky enough to live in an area where smog tests are not required.
A question for you: How is the mileage using CNG compared to gas? Is it cheaper to run this way?
The buses in my city run CNG, so I would assume they would go with the cheaper option, but really, I don't know and have never looked it up.
@@VZGarage360 Will get back to you Tomorrow night
@@VZGarage360 About 13 miles per GGE. Gasoline Gallon Equivalent.
City buses and garbage trucks have engines specifically designed to burn methane. Personal vehicle retro companies only request the manufacturer to install high temp valves and iron valve guides. The valve seats remain the same. I read something some time ago about how city buses run convertors with out burning them up due to the higher temp fuel they burn. I believe there are 2 exhaust systems. One for take off and one for cruise. I think thats that noise you hear city buses make when they take off. The switching of exhaust systems as they accelerate. Conversions do not address the exhaust system. Why i have this problem with burning up convertors is hills and loads.
Sustained RPM's of over 3K and under load is a high enough temp to melt the front portion of the substrate. Then it snow balls from there once a few of those combs melt over. The only way I know the convertor is going bad is my LTFT's start going up due to valve seats going bad. There is also lots of heat erosion on the valve's and seats. Every time I inspect the valves, they are pitted and a grove was formed in the valve. I've been reading about CNG for about 6 years now. Its very common for a valve job every 80K in CNG conversions like normal service intervals. Duro bond the valve seat company has new metal alloys for valve seats in CNG generators. How i know that any RPM above 3K burns convertors is the fact that CNG generators never run above 2.7K Rpms to avoid heat erosion and convertor melt downs. So, If I'm on the highway going up a 10 mile hill, I better do 20mph to avoid melting them. I'm done trying to legally move the convertor back 6 inches. Every response i get from the state is get a new vehicle. Just going to ride dirty. Besides, I've looked at CNG emissions for vehicles. It's nothing compared to gasoline vehicles. I dont see convertors on anything else that burns methane. I'm all for the environment. It was one of the reason why i bought it. However, since the state doesn't want to work with me, I have since dumped my ambition to be clean.
@@VZGarage360 I wanted to return to this comment to inform you that if the tensionors are mismatched or guides, there is a strong possibility the right side chain bumps the reluctor wheel as it has done with my 5.4l. I just did a valve job and during the rebuilt, I noticed some rubbing on the wheel. It wasn't too bad and the magnets were all still there however, since i completed the rebuild and relearned the ECM, I have the same exact symptoms as before. Once I read about the crank trigger, I am fully convinced this is the problem. A microscopic deviation can have large impact on injectors and ignition. I didn't know this.
It also explains my LTFT +30 Bank 1 +15 Bank 2. Bank 1 is where the main portion of the bend is on the trigger wheel. Bank 2 is either on the beginning or the end of the bend. If you like, I can send you pics. of the damage. The damage is very minor but enough to cause timing issues.
Damage like this is very common on the trigger wheel. Especially with an engine that has high mileage. The tensioners become loose and allow the chain to slap the trigger wheel. I have seen a couple that were bad enough to create a groove in the oil pump. One was bad enough that it cut a hole in the oil pump, causing a lack of oil pressure in the engine. That one of course had spun bearings as a result. The vehicle also had 250k+ for mileage. Most of these engines were not opened up at all, so the timing that was done to them came from the factory. Based on this, I have a hard time believing switching the 2 guides would cause this damage.
I love these videos man. I've got an old 2 valve mustang that I'm wanting to freshen up. These videos are extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain so many little details!
Thanks for the comment! I am happy to help!
Very nice job on explaining each step! Keep the videos coming, we really appreciate what you’re doing!
Thanks for the comment! More are on the way. I just need to find motivation for editing.
Nice work.
Very good job with the explanations.
I agree with putting silicone or RTV on the gaskets joints and or seems.
I am a new subscriber to your channel.
Thanks for sharing. 👍
Have a great weekend.
Thanks for subscribing!
Hope you have a great weekend as well!
Felpro rep told me the same thing when I called about our Jeep 4.0L oil pan gasket and I listened to them. Needless to say I had to take the oil pan back off and redo it with rtv. It leaked at all four corners the service stated need the rtv.
Thanks for sharing! That has always been my experience.
I have need of a good piston ring clamp have watched you video on short block rebuild .love the way you explain things I tried the old grenade one did not work for me would you tell me what clamp you bought so I could get one thank you
This is the exact tool I used in that video.
shop.snapon.com/product/Ring-Compressors/Ring-Compressor-Set-(Blue-Point)/RC980
This one would be comparable from Amazon.
OTC 4838 Piston Ring Compressor Set - 6-Piece a.co/d/5B92ZKi
Thanks for the information you do a great job thanks again
I just finished a rebuild on 5.42 valve and after timing it I notice the chain riding high on the cam gears is this normal I bought a melling timing set.
Hate to see all this go up in a pile of metal savings. Can I send you a picture via text or messenger being 68 my knowledge seems to have slipped a little.chain is riding high coming on to the chain any help you can give me is appreciated. Also thank you for your service.
You can send the picture here via messenger.
facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561838530644&mibextid=ZbWKwL
I replaced everything timing wise and my passenger side has a lot of slack at a certain point of spinning the motor like a lot of slack not slight I drove it for about a month and it happened do I just need new timing or what caused that??
Were the plastic tensioners used during the timing chain replacement?
This is a common problem for these specifically. These will only make the chain tight when it sees oil pressure, so with the engine running. As soon as the engine is turned off, the oil pressure will bleed off and make the chain loose. This is why I like using the steel tensioners with the push out locks.
@@VZGarage360 Not to mention the crank sprocket is small and the cam sprocket is large. Turning by hand is very different than when its running. Constant tension on the bank 2 chain.
I watched another video of 5.4 timing chain replacement. The double marked links go on top and the single mark link at the crank. Also, the tensionors are opposite. They labeled them as viewed from the front. Bank one gets right side and bank 2 gets left side. The tensionor guides are correct. The fatter guide goes on bank 2 side. I also very closely looked at the tensionor and they are different by an 1/8".
ua-cam.com/video/YgTHXV3DXxI/v-deo.html
He also explains why the single colored link goes at the bottom.
I watched this video and did not see or hear why the single mark goes to the bottom. In my opinion, it does not matter as their are the same number of links on either side, and I have built hundreds of these both ways, and it did not affect how it ran.
For anything on a car, right and left are determined based on when you are sitting in the driver's seat of the car. An example is, where is the left front wheel? It would be the driver side front. The same thing goes for everything on the engine. Try looking up a left side head. It will be the driver's side for the results.
Also, in my video, Bank 1 did get the right side tensioner. Bank 1 on these engines is the passenger side head.
The only difference between these tensioners is that the left side has a bump in the casting on the opposite side of the plunger.
My video is designed to show that the camshaft lockdown tools are not necessary for doing timing on these engines. It is also very unlikely that the valves will be open fully unless a lockdown tool is being used, keeping the peak of a lobe on the lasher adjuster. Not using this tool allows for flexibility to move the crank without causing major damage to the valves. Of course, this does not mean you can fully rotate the crank when the camshafts are installed.
If you want proof that building it this specific way does in fact run without problems, here is the video where I installed this engine in a Mustang and started it up for the first time.
ua-cam.com/video/mcRGRQRJDno/v-deo.htmlsi=2MzgiRN7QQVEnDMG
@@VZGarage360 Thank you for your reply.
After careful review, the only difference between video's is tensionor guide placement. Does it really matter?
Its difficult to see but you have the tabbed guide on bank 1.
I understand this is interference engine and i dont want to get it wrong.
When comparing both side by side, the dimensions and curve are identical. The only visual difference I see on them is that one has the tab. As long as the chain is tight, there should be no problems with having the chain jump time.
what do the numbers on the PI heads indicate?
Which numbers are being referenced? Are you looking at the 22PI that is on the front of the heads?