I was the editor of a Yachting Magazine. Magazines and on-line websites don't make money from subscribers. They make their money from advertisers. This means there's a lot of pressure to give boats good reviews. My rule of thumb was this: If I said it was phenomenal, it was great. If I said it was really good, it was average. If I said it was average, it was a deathtrap. If you're an experienced sailor you probably know a bit about yacht design and yacht construction, but if you're a newbie - pay for an honest adviser who only serves your interest. Don't believe what you read in the mags.
@@deandesign657I imagine you mean the whole beating your wife as long as it’s not thicker than your thumb? Cause it’s not definitive that’s where the saying came from and even if so that’s not how it is used in cases as this so the bad meaning does not apply. In the 1600s it was a term used for trading goods that were the length or width if your thumb so take your pick I guess
@@deandesign657 Yeah, you should look it up first. The misconception you are likely referring to has no basis in fact, only spurious attributions growing on top of each other like a cancerous snowball; folk etymologists are truly a disease upon language.
Superb! I bought my first boat, an old 25ft Westerly, for under $10,000. Biggest mistake was having an outboard engine; you can't store gasoline on deck safely and easily and starting it was often a nightmare when single handed. Plus rigging; mine was rotten and cost me more than the boat to get fixed for offshore sailing. Get a pro inspection every time, it's another pair of eyes.
@@tyrotrainer765 yeah and the salt water gives the outboard alot of wear and tear if I went outboard I would install the hoist to lift it up and as far as gasoline on deck a little mcgivering can take some storage space where you sit and storage under cushions for gas cans. Have a vent for fumes to exit over the side and it should be safe
@@RichardSMaloney Nah I'd have to disagree there, I've become a huge diesel fan regarding small engines; they run forever if given regular oil changes, and will run on just about anything oily in an emergency, such as vegetable oil or even old engine oil. I say this after running various generators at home for over 6 years now - diesel every time. The fuel storage issue is massive as far as safety goes; I keep around 50 litres spare in my workshed because I live in a remote area of the far east that often gets cut off in the rainy season. There's no way I'd keep 50L of petrol at home. Plus, when stored in steel jerry cans diesel will keep for years without going off; petrol degrades within months unless you use additives. BUT although I have a late model diesel car and it is awesome to drive where I live, when the new diesels go faulty they are EXTREMELY complex, and expensive to get repaired - they are beyond DIY IMO. So, small diesels every time (I'm talking sailing craft here, not power boats), they are rugged, cheap to run and dead easy to work on in comparison to gas engines.
I saw this boat being sold out of Fajardo Puerto Rico in 2021 with a bad engine which needed replacing, I guess that's why the engine looks so clean now.
I had a 2008 45DS. Sailed her all over the Caribbean and down to Grenada. Bought her in FL and sailed the “ delivery skippers route”, straight out 26 degrees t o “I-65” and down into St Thomas, 9 days open water. She sailed extremely well to weather. My only issue with her was that Jeanneau/Benetau uses brass valves and tail pieces coupled to bronze skin fittings for their thruhulls. I had multiple failures of tail pieces and two valve failures in my 1st 6 months of ownership (purchased May 2016). At my first opportunity we hauled her and replaced all 16 thruhulls with Meralon thruhulls. Never lost a night of sleep after that. I’ve posted on this topic in the Jeanneau Owners Group several times. If you own one of these, keep a watchful eye on your thruhulls and replace them as soon as you get the opportunity.
I'm willing to bet good money that the owner has crashed the keel into coral or other rocks and part de-laminated the keelbox from the rest of the boat. That was Expedition Evans' position and it took a ton of work to fix. Also blurring the serial number means that insurance claims can't be checked.
No nothing like that the previous owner had to sell because of an up coming Bankruptcy I paid him a good price . He wanted a quick sale for some reason so I got it for a reasonable offer which shall remain between the two of us. But no broken keels etc I’m afraid to report. I don’t do a UA-cam channel as I’m too old for that. I’m classed as disabled so this sailboat is ideal for people like me, I’m walking disabled so when I use her friends come with me and I take a couple of teenagers from either Epilepsy UK or Disability Rights UK.
@@markwoods1504 this is a nonsense reply within the context of this specific boat that's not in the UK! Or even close! Any vessel that is being used to take other people out on must be independently surveyed. There are no private deals or bargains. These semi cheap boats are often disasters both financial and real waiting to happen. The insurance fraud is another potential risk.
There’s no way I would ever consider a boat without the serial numbers to check various records. I don’t know how the seller thought they could get away with that!
Very possible it was a house boat. bet some old guy lived on it for ages rather than road her hard and put her up wet. But either reality could be true so why take the chance.
As a potential first-time boat buyer (looking for a liveaboard cabin cruiser) I am often ASTONISHED at what I see in the pictures. What is it with boat sellers and taking pictures of cluttered and often filthy cabins? Kitchens with knackered appliances laying around and rusty stovetops? Showers where they store a wet/dry vac, composting toilet(?!), or cleaning supplies? Engine compartments with old standing water? Mildewed exterior vinyl furniture? "Uncle Ed" sitting in a Barcalounger? Even a complete novice like myself can see issues with the conditions of these boats.
Some boats are stolen or do not have clear title. The bilge has clearly been innundated. The keel should never be rusty because on top of that these boats have significant electrics which are located in the bilge. And they do not like salt water. A friend's 54 Jeanneau had so many issues with electrics the keel and keel matrix that it was ultimately written off! Be very very careful.
@@jessiebrader2926 Sticking my nose in here and having owned a few sailboats, I would point out that the round bottom, bolt-on keel boats have very shallow bilges. In those boats - any pumps for liquids such as fuel, water and sewerage - and often electric cabling reside in a sub-floor compartment that is only inches deep. Any water in the bilge is BAD. Bilge-pump placement can be a problem in these hulls.
Great review - Many more things: The condition of the rigging, electronics/battery system, deck condition. Chain plates, electrical corrosion, deck rot, water intrusion at the mast or any thru-duck. Also all thru-hulls need checking, seacocks worked, more and more.
I listened to your advice about this subject A few more also. I now liveaboard a nice beneteu in Grenada. It’s a year 2000. Ya maintenance is always a thing but overall she’s healthy No major costs at this time. I have a truck camper at home in Alberta. I sat in that and told myself imagine living in this space outside is water , deep water lol No thanks I need a bigger boat , but not too big , 38’ ahhh stretch out walk around and it’s an awesome treat to sail so far as a beginner . Thank you for these videos. It’s a BIG help for anyone thinking of sailing. Saved me a lot of time and money I believe ! I was a mechanic for Cat by trade. Not a rich man so I needed to be careful. I’ve already met a few that sold everything to go sail the dream. They bought nice newer boats with their life’s work and once the thrill was over the cash was gone. The boats for sale to get rid of it fast. Big mistake. Housing has gone crazy in cost. Their screwed , back to work if they can. Thanks again for the help 😁
you're a diesel mechanic in an popular cruising spot. I bet you never have to buy beer or beef if you feel like supervising someone's trouble. smart man, well done you!
I really want to do what you’re doing was thinking Greece though. I only have about 100k Canadian 67k euros approximately. Trying to figure out if it can be done on that budget I’d like to think I could find a boat for 30k euros or cheaper and live for about a year with the rest
I sold my Bavaria 41f from 2003 bolted keel aft cabin sloop etc etc, and bought a 1980 Henry Wauquiez 43f Ketch Encapsulated keel 16Ton sailboat, i love it ❤️⛵⚓
When we were boat shopping, we were told to take a screw driver and tap the handle around the deck to listen for soft spots. The first one we looked at had a massive area on the deck that gave a muffled thump instead of a sharp thud.
I have a 42ds and they are great boats, ours is a 7' draft having sailed from the uk, and round the Caribbean, this year we went through the Bahamas, yes its tight In some sports but we never had an issue.
Jenneau and Beneteau also both comply with French regulations, including BRASS through hulls. You'll need to replace every one of them with BRONZE or Marelon as fast as you can.
I wouldn’t let that put me off, you can get many years out of brass thru hulls, at least ten or more years, usually it’s the below the water line thru hulls that deteriorate first, the above water line thru hulls will last for ever. Yes changing the below water line thru hulls can be a really nasty difficult job, the best way is to undo the hose clamps remove the hose, grind off the exterior flange and knock the old one into the boat, and just replace the thru hulls of your choice. Thru hull hardware is readily available in any good marine hardware store.
@@hughmaxwell8143Not true. Where I sail there are a huge number of both marques, many new but others decades old. They are well made dependable cruisers.
That boat was not just a walk away from but a run away from boat. Personally, I do not do plastic fantastic boats which knocks out most if not all of these smaller sailboats. Bolt on keels are another no go. I also prefer to deal with reputable brokers and a survey is never overlooked, it is a must and money well spent.
One thing you didnt mention is diesel bug. I helped a club member a few years ago bring a yacht from the south (UK) to Scotland, we got barely half way and the engine shuddered to a halt. After being towed into port by the RNLI, we discovered the fuel tank had eight inches of sludge, stopping the fuel flow. We had to rig a temporary fuel tank to continue the remainder of the journey. My colleague hadnt spent money on an independent survey. A couple of years later i was asked to help again for a similar yacht purchase movement, i couldn't help, but strongly suggested a proper survey, plus making certain there was no diesel bug, they didnt and same thing happened, engine failed after half way through a similar distance. Diesel bug is a big problem with engines using current biofuels, especially so if the yacht has been virtually idle for several months.
Actually the boat I sailed on coming back from a Melbourne to Hobart race 25 odd years ago, had to have a temporary fuel tank jury rigged for motoring. From memory we used a cleaned out 4 liter orang juice bottle. Thankfully we only ran the motor briefly going to/from moorings and marinas . I reckon overall less than two hours total vs sailing most of 8-9 days.
It was a problem long before biodiesel was popular. It is also a problem for diesel cars refueling at stations that don't pump a lot of diesel. I once pulled a long black plastic thing -- looked like electrical tape -- from the filter after refueling at a dubious stop. Best bet is to drain and clean the tank if it's bad and always refuel where they pump lots of diesel.
I can tell you a survey does not look for diesel bug. For that you require a specialist. They get a sample from the bottom of the tank. 99% of modern fuel tanks have no drain point so you must go in through the level transducer hole. After you get the sample report, you pay for them to remove all the fuel, clean it, cut an inspection port in the tank, clean the tank and put the fuel back. You then change the brand new filters that were clogged which prompted the investigation in the first place. As the new boat owner, you religiously take diesel bug prevention precaution’s which include Marine 16 in judicious quantities every time you refuel and never suffer from it again. Ask me how I know…
@@achosenman9376And you are right. My approach is, you buy the boat, of course you check the sight glass on the primary filter. You replace primary and secondary filters. Bug will be often be visible at the primary. If you are serious, open the tank port and do a visual inspection. No port, then get an endoscopic camera on your phone. ($70 can save your boat and your life). You carry spare fuel filters, you put a shock dose of Grotomar in the tank with enough diesel to top it up. You run the engine a lot before you set off into situations where you could lose the boat if the engine stops. You have plan B ready at all times. Anchor ready to go, outboard on the dinghy serviced and fully fuelled, sails ready to raise immediately. Surveyors have a lot of other stuff go deal with and will only do fuel and oil tests if you specifically request, and it will be a extra fee for service. Fancy paying a surveyor 2 hours wages to drive to and from a fuel specialist? Not me.
Yup. Friend of mine bought a used sailboat in Rochester, NY. Sailed it home to Chicago. In Erie, PA the diesel quit running. This was early in the Spring and open boat yards were a rarity. Did find a place. Fuel filter was logged, fuel/water separator was a mess. Had the tank pumped out. Lots of crud and sludge in the bottom. Previous owner assured my friend that all recommended maintenance was up to date. Hah!
Great Video Tim,I live in England UK I have a 2016 Beneteau Oceanis 48 I bought it used at 18 months old it's the best sailboat I've ever had. I'm 55 now and retired so I use my Beneteau from Spring to late Autumn. If I had to buy another sailboat I'd buy another Beneteau like a shot .
Absolutely essential is to include the steering gear in any assessment. In my estimation more boats are abandoned on passage because of steering gear failure than for any other reason.
That’s an easy one. Offer $40k, no survey needed. That leaves enough to take care of everything including the aggravation and inconvenience of dealing with the seller and their broker.
As a first time boat buyer, I am sooo thankful I got a full survey (in water and out), and I would highly recommend getting one! That being said, the extensive survey still missed some things. What was missed in the survey was made up for by the fact that I was looking for a very solid potential Bluewater boat and found one. So I think it’s really important to know where you want to sail and buy a boat for those conditions.
I can add that it's very helpfully to read Nigel Calder, Dave Gerr and other professionals, also visit marinas were boat owners working with their boats and ask them questions, I'm sure you'll meet their real "Sea wolves" who will teach you a lot about boats.
Very well researched and very well presented sir. Everyone who watches this video can learn from this. It’s human nature to become swept up emotionally with certain purchase decisions (your first home is a great example). One can easily become completely blind to the hair on the object of one’s desire. Having a neutral third party to talk to is worth every penny and every minute spent on an unbiased review.
Good delivery of the main points, going from positive experience to Do Not Go There Listing. Good boats are smaller boats also with no substitution for Value for Money. Boat terms means - it has to be in very good shape or it will take double the money to get it back into good shapte. Thus you saved the client ALL there money, as it would have been a total loss......
Thank you from Don for explaining these faults on these types sail boats Since it be my first chance in life to do this at least I got good schooling from you on what to look for, and it was good learning Note: that sail boat that size needed fin on the keel also for operating in oceans that's good to know, thank you great informative video that helped me.
Tim it’s amazing to see this boat. My slip neighbor is the guy who bought this boat. My only complaint is his wind generator makes a bunch of noise when he’s not around. But it’s a beautiful boat. Was amazing seeing you profile this boat n
I do a fair bit of consulting like you do for local people. One thing that I have come to suggest to potential buyers os to just avoid anything listed by Pop Yachts. In my experience they have yet to be the actual listing broker. Instead, they seem to hijack listings from legitimate brokers then charge a fee to basically arrange a showing with the actual broker. At least, that was my experience on at least 3 Pop Yacht listing that I can quickly recall. Good show and good info as always. 👍👍
That's an interesting comment most of the pop boats I see and I look more I powerboats are all tired and rough and they have been on the market a long time with desperate sellers
Man, imma have to find someone like you once I look for a boat because I wanna make sure I get the right one and someone who can tell me the red and green flags
I always look for a one owner boat. Then I talk with them and you end up with a gem of a boat. Pay extra for it but you will save ten times the difference since it’s a looked after boat
I´d say that the red flags you´ve already pointed out makes it at total no-no! Stay clear and find another better one and without any red flags even if more expensive!
Former full time cruiser 2 years then part time for 7. I’m in the process of selling my home and 10 acres on a river in the woods to go back where I felt most alive. Your content is a classroom for me and is much appreciated as I begin my research in finding the right “sort” of boat for this solo sailor. Shallow draft for the Bahamas but heavy for big waters, roomy but not a slow turtle, maybe a ketch, center cockpit is likely, enough whistles and bells to stay off grid for extended periods and a wish list longer than a politicians stump speech. Yes, a Unicorn. When I find a buyer that wants to live on a small farm in the middle of nowhere I’m off to search the east coast. I’ll definitely book a consultation when that happens. I’ll have @$80k to play with. With some heavy exceptions I do all my own work. Just watched your video from 4 years ago, I’m pulling and sealing off any underwater speed transmitters😬yikes! I think the worst of instances like that can be when all the adrenaline dissipates and you just physically and mentally crunched. Well done captain. Thank you again for you solid content
Where was it that made you feel most alive? I sail locally in South Florida but within 5 years i'm thinking of renting out the house and broadening my sailing horizons. Maybe cruising for a bit and retiring somewhere in Latin America.
On the water, sailing! It didn’t much matter where. But I spent time outfitting in ft Myers then crossed the gulf. Isla Mujeres, then bounced down the Yucatán, Belize, Guatemala. Spent time in the Rio Dulce than some Honduras. All west Carib. If I were going to settle in Latin America I’d look at southern Mexico first. Bacalar is beautiful and accesses to Belize are easy. Personally I’m looking to cruise the east Carib for awhile and eventually May settle in the Azores
@@A_Pa-Plainjanepretty dramatic opinion. There's no reason to remove such essential equipment. Sea cocks can be checked and replaced, eventual with state of the art Bronze materials. There's is millions of sailors and boats using this sort of equipment since decades. You don't scrap a car because of a flat tire!
Good idea for a video. I also do boat shopping as an all-ocean Master and I always tell my clients "love the boat but don't fall in love with the boat." There is always another boat.
I would have been out as soon as they required the deposit to come see it. Then not being able to see it out of the water. If it’s too good to be true it usually is.
That boat screams "my old owner was never able to take proper care of me, retired with less money than he expected due to the financial crash, paid the lowest bidder to ferry me to Puerto Rico where I was neglected and took on a lil water during one of those storms that comes through here, upon which I sunk until my giant keel hit bottom and I sat that way for a very long time, until my owner took the insurance payoff, traded me for a Honda Ruckus scooter and $15,000 worth of marijuana and my new owner is a flipper who doesn't love me and just wants me gone. Please help me." Poor thing....
I don't think many understand just how much work it takes to properly maintain an ocean going boat! My dad cruised in a 52FT Grand Banks and my parents worked tirelessly and seemingly endlessly to keep her maintained and as perfect as it could be. It takes money, knowledge, and desire to keep them nice. You also need to know when to call in an expert here and there to help out with a number of things. It's fun, but it does take work! Great video!
@@lisette2060 Agreed. Almost everybody is talking about really big boats, as it that's the only kind. Not all of us are dentists, or lawyers, or own hedge funds.
On any Beneteau, Jenneau or even Lagoon Cat, the bulkhead tabbing cement and joints should be checked. This cement may deteriorate prematurely reducing the bond. This can especially be the case when exposed to salt water. Not to be mistaken with the Lagoon bulkhead design issues.
You really had me at keel bolts. I once looked at a beautiful boat. Even issues that were common to that model had been addressed. Then I looked at the keel bolts. They weren't bolts anymore but piles of rust. Ran from that one.
Basically this only really applies to these French boats. Other boats like Catalinas the keel bolts don't do much once the keel is epoxyed in place and glassed over. For instance my Catalina 36 has been trucked from San Carlos, Mexico to San Diego twice with no damage to the keel. On these French boats you'd remove the keel to truck by just removing bolts or nuts. At the Catalina factory in Saint Petersburg, Florida they were asked to change out a deep draft keel for a shallow draft keel. It took a week of frustration, a lot of man hours and a lot of damage repair to make the customer happy. They swore to never attempt that again!
@@4U812-h1lChanging keel bolts is a standard job, for any experienced European boat builder. Even lay men does it. No wonder your nation is slowly but sure running down the drain 🤔
After selling my 2000 Hunter, I spent 18 mo. trying to find my next boat during Covid. Nothing good was out there and I was looking for a boat ready to go to sea. I finally bought a Jeanneau 39DS out of FL because I was about to lose my mooring in MA if I didn’t have a boat on it. Big mistake. Many if the red flags here existed. Surveyor was no help. Rig survey said it was good for another couple of years. Bottom line- the boat didn’t make it home pulled into Charleston with a broken stay. We spent a month in the hard replacing rigging and rebedding the keel. Have spent the last 3 years making it into the boat I had hoped to buy in the first place.
unsupported rudders are a big one for me, fiddled or dated electronics, cheap stainless, stains, cheap winches, and many you mentioned. a good job sir. k
Rusty keel bolts are the most exaggerated item on the list. These boats have air conditioner drip pans plumbed into the bilge. It makes under the floorboards a moist environment because there is always a puddle near the bilge pump intake. All the bolts eventually get surface rust even after a year. You'll see the most horrible solution to this (Stainless keel bolts). Now you have stainless screwed into iron; two dissimilar metals. I think the paint on the bolts is just half a$% work that corresponds with the rest of the maintenance on that boat. Good video and it just shows that maintenance means more than than the marque when it comes to buying.
My big red flag on the Jenneau 42 was the stove. The spot was designed for a stove with an oven. Perhaps the discoloration of the interior surfaces. No mention of the title. Blurry registration numbers tells me there may be an ownership issue.
We have a 2002 jeanneau 40DS they are good boats. We have the 6.5 draft. We just spent a month in the abacos with no issues. We spent months in Florida again with no issues. So don’t let a deeper draft stop people. You might have to anchor out a bit further but we haven’t found anywhere we couldn’t go.
So true. I couldn't tell if the presenter was talking about himself or someone else when he talked about frequent grounding. Surely navigation is not a lost art!
Thanks for the video. Some great points. One thing you didn't suggest that I thought was it's an ex charter boat. Perhaps a new engine as the old one was kaput. Perhaps a rebuild and someone rigged the engine hours. Seeing it bashed around and those keelbolt problems as you say, suggests a very slack owner or one who employs unqualified, cheap shipwrights.
@Markwoods hi ya mark?? Further to your comments regarding your Benny 48. We are two oldies ( 75 & 77) who bought a beneteau Oceanis 34, she was slipped in 2011. We wanted a safe, quick vessel for a jaunt around the west Australian coast with plans to get to the Montebellos Islands which lay west of Karratha about 200 miles out. If you drag up a chart of Western Australia it's well worth the homework. We have sailed her 2 up from Bunbury to the Abrolhos Islands twice, pretty rough conditions on both jaunts, then another trip from Bunbury to Shark bay, then around the bay to Monkey 🐒 Mia, This entailed 6 storms with huge waves and all the drama that goes with it. A lovely spot to visit was Denham, where we had to moor for 5 Days due storms where the wind was 55knt with gusts of 75knt was the norm. Boat did not drag and we felt safe at all times. Very dry boat, and VERY easy to handle even for 70+ female, not to steady on my legs and a hip replacement and a crook back. What i am saying in an long version, is we never felt like we couldn't get out of trouble. Very forgiving boats, can sail by one or a crew of 4 for racing mode. We would buy a bigger Beneteau if we had more years on our clocks. Hope you keep on sailing your Beneteau for years to come Kind regards Cheryle
The finest local New England "gunk hole" sailing boat for a couple is the 32ft Herroshoff Meadowlark gaff ketch. A draft of 18 inches, the several boats of this class I saw growing up on Cape Cod 1960s has leaboards. However daggerboards can do as well. 34Ft LWL, fastest boat on a reach in that size. Most were made with massive oak boards, but one had two layers of half inch plywood.
A buddy of mine has a 38ft sim odyssey DS and he has spent a monumental amount of money fixing it all up. I believe it has the massive deep keel as well.
Having lived in PR, I believe the social norm there is to "cover up" any faults with duct tape and paint until something falls off. You see it with the homes, cars, and boats. PR population don't have a lot of money, and in my experience, don't take proper care of things from an American perspective. I simply wouldn't consider a boat from there. This isn't a racist thing, simply an acknowledgement of differences in typical mindset from what I'm accustomed to stateside.
Even if you JUST think about this boat, I would not even go watch that boat. I don't know how PR is now, for a beach and sun holiday I guess it is still good. Point is, going to a country as a tourist is always a bit tricky. Can you find a place to sleep, where the local owners earn some money, in a huge hotel your dollars are gone abroad within half a second, and how happy is the local staff? Whoops.
I bought a CSY 44 w/o in the VI and sailed it to PR for the refit. We are now out sailing and in Saint Croix. My boat is the one to the port. My sister's to starboard. Never been on it. Owner lives off island.
Tim slightly confused by your comment that Dacron sail good for 20 years. Also, older Jenneau, before being told by French gov to join with Benateau , we’re all stick built without interior liner and solid hulls , very different construction. Cheers Warren
I completely understand why fast, elegant boats like the Beneteau and Jenaeu are so attractive to so many. The exposed props and rudders of these types of boat are a very major risk for these designs. One should consider what happens to these boats when they have any kind of brush with the bottom or even some kind of line. A boat with a fuller keel, a protected robust rudder can sail away from many mishaps whereas these lovely sleek designs end up disabled.
i once fell in love with a boat, a 30ft colvic sailor with a custom interior and buldge keel for £2k, but once i realised how much work there would need to be and with major exams comming up; i was 17 at the time, i just could pull the ripcord and buy her, i still regret that discion today even though it was definitly the right one to do, at that point i had be sailing 10 years so i was to finally own my own boat.
Another great video, Tim! I did my ASA 103/104 on a Jeanneau 42. It was the 3 cabin model and the aft berths were quite small. But I really like the aft stateroom model. That was really nice!!! At some point, I will want your help though. Not just with buying the boat, but finding a qualified and reliable skipper who can help me get that blue water experience I need. There's nothing that can replace hands-on experience, no matter how good your ASA instructor was.
The biggest worry with "mystery boats" down there (and especially FL), is if they got nailed in a hurricane. Oddities like rust or discolorations in the bilges or behind the cabin liners and woodwork can suggest this because the clean-up and repairs don't always go on in hard to reach places. But you are absolutely correct that it must be viewed on the hard before buying. Blisters are a sad thing to discover after the fact.
Unfortunately there’s always a buyer who doesn’t know what they are looking at and doesn’t employ a surveyor to report on the condition. Dubious sellers know that buyer is there somewhere. Good video.
Don’t forget to check all rigging wires specifically if the unit goes up 12 years old. Can be 10/8 k (Spain)some cases to substitute it but if breaks is consider your fault and some insurances will not cover it
Thanks again Tim. I appreciate how this channel is about helping people make informed decisions when buying a boat. I have learned more about sailing and sailboats from you than any other sources. Thanks again from SV Keeling It! Nackawic ,NB
Excellent video. The biggest situation for me based on what you've shared is the keel. The condition of the Keel itself and the attachment and then equally important if not more is the style of the keel. My opinion for sailing Bahamas is that is a pass
I’m glad I came across this video which spoke very highly of Jeanneau, myself and the owner of his Viking 65 which I’m the captain of, is looking at a sailing yacht as his retirement yacht, we looked at a 56 exclusive, which was new in 2018, it’s a lovely boat that was left in storage for four years, so it has obvious sign of neglect, which could be sorted out quite easily, but having now seen this video makes me push the buyer even harder into purchasing this particular yacht. 😊
Boat looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet. Heavy wear and tear in the inside, very slapdash repair on the leaking ports. Lots and lots of headaches for a future owner. Thanks for identifying red flag items.
Oh boy. I got hooked after seeing a Jeanneau Sun Odessey Deck Saloon 49! I know its not the best for live aboard ocean crossings. Thanks for the reality check.
I sure do appreciate your channel! As, I am nearing retirement, and my plans are living in the Caribbean! My plans are to live on board and enjoy the great weather and the good life! Been a subscriber since I found you a year ago! I do plan on living aboard a sailing vessel! I am a seasoned vet, as I race around Lake Michigan every year! Been to Puerto Rico, and I was in love when I landed. I'm about a year and a half, before I reach the starting line, on a body of water, not named Lake Michigan. In 1983, we took a bow first knock down. Talk about violent! I was on a C & C 41. People don't respect Lake Michigan's power! Anyway's great channel!
I understand your concern around the Californian registration, but it doesn’t mean the boat was ever in California. My boat was registered and home ported in Vancouver, BC, but had never left Florida and the Bahamas. Worth questioning, though.
Overall condition and care is very important. There are many things you just can't see on a boat and have to go by indication based on the things you can see.
I am more interested in surviving force 12, then sailing an upscale condo. Very good point about the owners method of maintenence and what it can mean. Look at the keel bolts, noooo!
Betamarine is the way to go. I threw out my old Volvo Penta - to hard to work on, parts too expensive ( if you can find them). My Beta 38 has been a godsend.
Tim I love all of your videos but I've got to call you on this island bed particularly in the Juneau just be clear I went and Googled Island bed. The following is the definition even though they do mention an RV but when you mention an island bed I at least think of three sides to get off of that doesn't require to scoot out of the bed toward the end just like my bed at my house I can roll off the side and easily stand up that's why I like Pullman berths. Here's the quote from Google. "Unlike corner beds or beds against the wall, island beds are surrounded by space on all sides, resembling an "island" within the sleeping quarters. This design is often found in larger motorhomes, and it comes with a variety of configurations and features." I'm in my late 60s and I do not look forward to scooting off the back end of the bed to get up two times in the middle of night to go pee it is way more convenient just to roll out just like you would at your house to get out of bed so that you can use the restroom. Just saying. I also don't want six steep steps to go up and down especially in bad weather so the deck salon is supposed to be really close or even the at cockpit Floor level but we will find is some boats having only four steps which seems to be acceptable for me and important. So I will celebrate when any content provider addresses a true walk around at least three sides walk around bed that I can easily get in and out of. So what I'm looking for is a dual helm, a side entry bed one side like a Pullman or a true island bed would be better with decent Headroom. And if I'm going to have my wish list I really like a lazy boy in the saloon to watch your UA-cam videos. Also, wih a budget of not more than $125K.
In 2014 i was looking to purchase a Farrier F22 trimaran here in Australia. I am in the southern state of Victoria and the boat was in Queensland, a northern state 2000kms away. I ordered the service of a marine survey on the boat. The surveyor rang me to say the boat is a zipper, meaning there was serious delamination between the fiberglass coating and the foam core on all 3 hulls. I have experienced delamination before were a 1cm bubble turned out to be a 1m squared repair. This was a no go for me. I purchase a different one (used the same surveyor) and it is a great boat.
Cabin leaks resulting in stains on the interior and rot in the wood. I'm buying a Freedom 25 which has both of those, but they're limited to two places, and I can deal with those. Otherwise, none of the red flags you point out apply. Paying $4K for it, which is competitive for boats that size in the Finger Lakes.
this video was very helpful, I wasn't entirely sure what to look for, I mean I know of some stuff but this example is very good and was very useful. Thank you!
That is why they call them Bendy slows . LOL . Actually all the modern production boats are pretty cheaply made and the new hull forms while fast are not sea kindly and do not go to weather well . 13 feet of beam carried right to the stern is great for space but not great for going to weather. Unfortunately many of the these boats are not at all well made
@@timdunn2257 Depends on the boat , it can be absolute misery in many of these new boats . However in the right boat it can be exhilarating. . I suspect so many of the people that complain about going to weather are in boats that do it very poorly . Now having said that , if I have a 2 day passage pounding into big waves can be less fun than a reach . Many of the wide boats with flat runs and plumb bows will pound where a more traditional boat will glide and they won't point either making for a frustrating day . Fat out chain plates are convenient but not for performance up wind
I've seen a hard wave detach and shifted the inner shell of one of those,,but they cool boats just not ocean crossing boat,, good for Caribbean charters
@@Snarf_Le_Wombat Our boat gets big trips and long times at sea then there are times it sits at the dock depending on what life throws at us . This is a pretty common story for a lot of boats . Here is the but . Whether it is at sea or at the dock the maintenance clock is always ticking . Some of it can be differed without any damage to the vessel some can’t.
"enough silicone to make Kardashian blush" I don't know who writes your jokes but that got a big laugh out of me.
Hahahha usually people don't catch them but I have a weird sense of humour :)
@@LadyKSailingPs new channel is awesome! While building boats i listen to them as a podcast hahaha good job!
@@LadyKSailing No, you have the sense of humour of a Canadian of a certain age. It's a good thing.
6:31 more red flags than my dating profile.
@@LadyKSailing We have to develop a sense of humor during these times. I'm equipping for a possible escape vehicle.
I was the editor of a Yachting Magazine. Magazines and on-line websites don't make money from subscribers. They make their money from advertisers. This means there's a lot of pressure to give boats good reviews. My rule of thumb was this: If I said it was phenomenal, it was great. If I said it was really good, it was average. If I said it was average, it was a deathtrap. If you're an experienced sailor you probably know a bit about yacht design and yacht construction, but if you're a newbie - pay for an honest adviser who only serves your interest. Don't believe what you read in the mags.
"rule of thumb" is a horrible thing to say. I know we all say it but look it up.
@@deandesign657I imagine you mean the whole beating your wife as long as it’s not thicker than your thumb? Cause it’s not definitive that’s where the saying came from and even if so that’s not how it is used in cases as this so the bad meaning does not apply. In the 1600s it was a term used for trading goods that were the length or width if your thumb so take your pick I guess
@@deandesign657 nothing wrong with rule of thumb.
@@deandesign657 but it's just a rule to determine the direction of magnetic forces. What's wrong with that?
@@deandesign657 Yeah, you should look it up first.
The misconception you are likely referring to has no basis in fact, only spurious attributions growing on top of each other like a cancerous snowball; folk etymologists are truly a disease upon language.
Superb! I bought my first boat, an old 25ft Westerly, for under $10,000. Biggest mistake was having an outboard engine; you can't store gasoline on deck safely and easily and starting it was often a nightmare when single handed. Plus rigging; mine was rotten and cost me more than the boat to get fixed for offshore sailing. Get a pro inspection every time, it's another pair of eyes.
@@tyrotrainer765 yeah and the salt water gives the outboard alot of wear and tear if I went outboard I would install the hoist to lift it up and as far as gasoline on deck a little mcgivering can take some storage space where you sit and storage under cushions for gas cans. Have a vent for fumes to exit over the side and it should be safe
@@RichardSMaloney Nah I'd have to disagree there, I've become a huge diesel fan regarding small engines; they run forever if given regular oil changes, and will run on just about anything oily in an emergency, such as vegetable oil or even old engine oil. I say this after running various generators at home for over 6 years now - diesel every time.
The fuel storage issue is massive as far as safety goes; I keep around 50 litres spare in my workshed because I live in a remote area of the far east that often gets cut off in the rainy season. There's no way I'd keep 50L of petrol at home. Plus, when stored in steel jerry cans diesel will keep for years without going off; petrol degrades within months unless you use additives.
BUT although I have a late model diesel car and it is awesome to drive where I live, when the new diesels go faulty they are EXTREMELY complex, and expensive to get repaired - they are beyond DIY IMO. So, small diesels every time (I'm talking sailing craft here, not power boats), they are rugged, cheap to run and dead easy to work on in comparison to gas engines.
In waves, outboard props coming in and out of the water sucks. Over-rev, burble, repeat until driven mad.
Best line ever, "More red flags than my dating profile." These are some really good boat buying tips.
I liked the
Enough silicone to embarrass a Kardashian
@@hogfishmaximussailing5208 I literally didn't know there WAS that much silicon.
When you have rose colored glasses, all the red flags look like just flags…
@@snoopstp4189 -- and shockingly this boat owner found it - *all!*
That was so funny.
I saw this boat being sold out of Fajardo Puerto Rico in 2021 with a bad engine which needed replacing, I guess that's why the engine looks so clean now.
my immediate though when he said the boat had been to california is it's not the original engine.
I had a 2008 45DS. Sailed her all over the Caribbean and down to Grenada. Bought her in FL and sailed the “ delivery skippers route”, straight out 26 degrees t o “I-65” and down into St Thomas, 9 days open water. She sailed extremely well to weather. My only issue with her was that Jeanneau/Benetau uses brass valves and tail pieces coupled to bronze skin fittings for their thruhulls. I had multiple failures of tail pieces and two valve failures in my 1st 6 months of ownership (purchased May 2016). At my first opportunity we hauled her and replaced all 16 thruhulls with Meralon thruhulls. Never lost a night of sleep after that. I’ve posted on this topic in the Jeanneau Owners Group several times. If you own one of these, keep a watchful eye on your thruhulls and replace them as soon as you get the opportunity.
French boats are also famous for electrical systems that aren't up to US standards.
Better quality bronze only and you won't have failures, broken handles-stuck valves, or risk of breakage from impact.
You need to check for stray current discharge from your boat systems, it could account for rapid deteation of the fittings.
I'm willing to bet good money that the owner has crashed the keel into coral or other rocks and part de-laminated the keelbox from the rest of the boat. That was Expedition Evans' position and it took a ton of work to fix. Also blurring the serial number means that insurance claims can't be checked.
Now that's scary!
No nothing like that the previous owner had to sell because of an up coming Bankruptcy I paid him a good price . He wanted a quick sale for some reason so I got it for a reasonable offer which shall remain between the two of us. But no broken keels etc I’m afraid to report. I don’t do a UA-cam channel as I’m too old for that. I’m classed as disabled so this sailboat is ideal for people like me, I’m walking disabled so when I use her friends come with me and I take a couple of teenagers from either Epilepsy UK or Disability Rights UK.
@@markwoods1504 this is a nonsense reply within the context of this specific boat that's not in the UK! Or even close! Any vessel that is being used to take other people out on must be independently surveyed. There are no private deals or bargains. These semi cheap boats are often disasters both financial and real waiting to happen. The insurance fraud is another potential risk.
There’s no way I would ever consider a boat without the serial numbers to check various records. I don’t know how the seller thought they could get away with that!
Very possible it was a house boat. bet some old guy lived on it for ages rather than road her hard and put her up wet. But either reality could be true so why take the chance.
I got a survey and the boat was still a lemon. I'll do my own inspections from now on.
A serious surveyor is insured and publish former reports.
@@lisette2060a guy who knows boats doesn't need a surveyor or to pay the greedy bastards for something he can do himself
Most surveys are bank surveys , Get a Marine Engineer or a very experienced Boat rigger and pay him to spot the trouble he finds.
As a potential first-time boat buyer (looking for a liveaboard cabin cruiser) I am often ASTONISHED at what I see in the pictures. What is it with boat sellers and taking pictures of cluttered and often filthy cabins? Kitchens with knackered appliances laying around and rusty stovetops? Showers where they store a wet/dry vac, composting toilet(?!), or cleaning supplies? Engine compartments with old standing water? Mildewed exterior vinyl furniture? "Uncle Ed" sitting in a Barcalounger? Even a complete novice like myself can see issues with the conditions of these boats.
I agree, like put all your junk in a box and take it onshore before taking the photos. Simple stuff.
Some boats are stolen or do not have clear title. The bilge has clearly been innundated. The keel should never be rusty because on top of that these boats have significant electrics which are located in the bilge. And they do not like salt water. A friend's 54 Jeanneau had so many issues with electrics the keel and keel matrix that it was ultimately written off!
Be very very careful.
@@rosewood1 What do you mean by 'significant electrics"? And in the bilge?
@@jessiebrader2926 Sticking my nose in here and having owned a few sailboats, I would point out that the round bottom, bolt-on keel boats have very shallow bilges. In those boats - any pumps for liquids such as fuel, water and sewerage - and often electric cabling reside in a sub-floor compartment that is only inches deep. Any water in the bilge is BAD. Bilge-pump placement can be a problem in these hulls.
Maybe that was after the cleaned 'r up and they figured all good! Scary huh.
Great review - Many more things: The condition of the rigging, electronics/battery system, deck condition. Chain plates, electrical corrosion, deck rot, water intrusion at the mast or any thru-duck. Also all thru-hulls need checking, seacocks worked, more and more.
I listened to your advice about this subject
A few more also.
I now liveaboard a nice beneteu in Grenada. It’s a year 2000.
Ya maintenance is always a thing but overall she’s healthy
No major costs at this time. I have a truck camper at home in Alberta. I sat in that and told myself imagine living in this space outside is water , deep water lol
No thanks I need a bigger boat , but not too big , 38’ ahhh stretch out walk around and it’s an awesome treat to sail so far as a beginner .
Thank you for these videos. It’s a BIG help for anyone thinking of sailing. Saved me a lot of time and money I believe !
I was a mechanic for Cat by trade. Not a rich man so I needed to be careful.
I’ve already met a few that sold everything to go sail the dream. They bought nice newer boats with their life’s work and once the thrill was over the cash was gone. The boats for sale to get rid of it fast. Big mistake. Housing has gone crazy in cost.
Their screwed , back to work if they can.
Thanks again for the help 😁
you're a diesel mechanic in an popular cruising spot. I bet you never have to buy beer or beef if you feel like supervising someone's trouble. smart man, well done you!
that is a cautionary tale if there ever was one. thx.
I really want to do what you’re doing was thinking Greece though. I only have about 100k Canadian 67k euros approximately. Trying to figure out if it can be done on that budget I’d like to think I could find a boat for 30k euros or cheaper and live for about a year with the rest
I sold my Bavaria 41f from 2003 bolted keel aft cabin sloop etc etc, and bought a 1980 Henry Wauquiez 43f Ketch Encapsulated keel 16Ton sailboat, i love it ❤️⛵⚓
When we were boat shopping, we were told to take a screw driver and tap the handle around the deck to listen for soft spots. The first one we looked at had a massive area on the deck that gave a muffled thump instead of a sharp thud.
I have a 42ds and they are great boats, ours is a 7' draft having sailed from the uk, and round the Caribbean, this year we went through the Bahamas, yes its tight In some sports but we never had an issue.
Jenneau and Beneteau also both comply with French regulations, including BRASS through hulls. You'll need to replace every one of them with BRONZE or Marelon as fast as you can.
Brass thru-hulls on all new B and J boats? I did not know that. Another reason to avoid them.
I wouldn’t let that put me off, you can get many years out of brass thru hulls, at least ten or more years, usually it’s the below the water line thru hulls that deteriorate first, the above water line thru hulls will last for ever. Yes changing the below water line thru hulls can be a really nasty difficult job, the best way is to undo the hose clamps remove the hose, grind off the exterior flange and knock the old one into the boat, and just replace the thru hulls of your choice. Thru hull hardware is readily available in any good marine hardware store.
I’ve been repairing and restoring boats for 35 years. Stay clear of Jenneau and beneteau if you plan to leave the dock.
@@hughmaxwell8143What are the biggest issues you’ve seen?
@@hughmaxwell8143Not true. Where I sail there are a huge number of both marques, many new but others decades old. They are well made dependable cruisers.
That boat was not just a walk away from but a run away from boat. Personally, I do not do plastic fantastic boats which knocks out most if not all of these smaller sailboats. Bolt on keels are another no go. I also prefer to deal with reputable brokers and a survey is never overlooked, it is a must and money well spent.
One thing you didnt mention is diesel bug. I helped a club member a few years ago bring a yacht from the south (UK) to Scotland, we got barely half way and the engine shuddered to a halt. After being towed into port by the RNLI, we discovered the fuel tank had eight inches of sludge, stopping the fuel flow. We had to rig a temporary fuel tank to continue the remainder of the journey. My colleague hadnt spent money on an independent survey.
A couple of years later i was asked to help again for a similar yacht purchase movement, i couldn't help, but strongly suggested a proper survey, plus making certain there was no diesel bug, they didnt and same thing happened, engine failed after half way through a similar distance.
Diesel bug is a big problem with engines using current biofuels, especially so if the yacht has been virtually idle for several months.
Actually the boat I sailed on coming back from a Melbourne to Hobart race 25 odd years ago, had to have a temporary fuel tank jury rigged for motoring. From memory we used a cleaned out 4 liter orang juice bottle. Thankfully we only ran the motor briefly going to/from moorings and marinas . I reckon overall less than two hours total vs sailing most of 8-9 days.
It was a problem long before biodiesel was popular. It is also a problem for diesel cars refueling at stations that don't pump a lot of diesel. I once pulled a long black plastic thing -- looked like electrical tape -- from the filter after refueling at a dubious stop. Best bet is to drain and clean the tank if it's bad and always refuel where they pump lots of diesel.
I can tell you a survey does not look for diesel bug. For that you require a specialist. They get a sample from the bottom of the tank. 99% of modern fuel tanks have no drain point so you must go in through the level transducer hole. After you get the sample report, you pay for them to remove all the fuel, clean it, cut an inspection port in the tank, clean the tank and put the fuel back. You then change the brand new filters that were clogged which prompted the investigation in the first place.
As the new boat owner, you religiously take diesel bug prevention precaution’s which include Marine 16 in judicious quantities every time you refuel and never suffer from it again.
Ask me how I know…
@@achosenman9376And you are right. My approach is, you buy the boat, of course you check the sight glass on the primary filter. You replace primary and secondary filters. Bug will be often be visible at the primary. If you are serious, open the tank port and do a visual inspection. No port, then get an endoscopic camera on your phone. ($70 can save your boat and your life). You carry spare fuel filters, you put a shock dose of Grotomar in the tank with enough diesel to top it up. You run the engine a lot before you set off into situations where you could lose the boat if the engine stops. You have plan B ready at all times. Anchor ready to go, outboard on the dinghy serviced and fully fuelled, sails ready to raise immediately. Surveyors have a lot of other stuff go deal with and will only do fuel and oil tests if you specifically request, and it will be a extra fee for service. Fancy paying a surveyor 2 hours wages to drive to and from a fuel specialist? Not me.
Yup. Friend of mine bought a used sailboat in Rochester, NY. Sailed it home to Chicago. In Erie, PA the diesel quit running. This was early in the Spring and open boat yards were a rarity. Did find a place. Fuel filter was logged, fuel/water separator was a mess. Had the tank pumped out. Lots of crud and sludge in the bottom. Previous owner assured my friend that all recommended maintenance was up to date. Hah!
Great Video Tim,I live in England UK I have a 2016 Beneteau Oceanis 48 I bought it used at 18 months old it's the best sailboat I've ever had. I'm 55 now and retired so I use my Beneteau from Spring to late Autumn. If I had to buy another sailboat I'd buy another Beneteau like a shot .
Another excellent video Tim! I've been sailing/ cruising fifty plus years and still learn a lot from your videos!!
Glad you like them!
Absolutely essential is to include the steering gear in any assessment. In my estimation more boats are abandoned on passage because of steering gear failure than for any other reason.
Buy the boat strip all good parts then scuttle it for insurance monies
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24based pirate advice
I’ve proudly talked 4-5 people out of buying a boat.
Like you, I’ve got lotsa stories on this.
Also regarding the volvo / yanmar discussion. The cost of replacement tensioner and waterpumps from volvo absolutely stunned me.
Everything maritime is at least twice as expensive..!
If possible look out for industrial spare parts.
That’s an easy one. Offer $40k, no survey needed. That leaves enough to take care of everything including the aggravation and inconvenience of dealing with the seller and their broker.
And if it's a stolen boat?
@@timdunn2257 what do you do about that?
Great job Tim!
Newbies always should remember to check the swages on the standing rigging for rust or breakage!!
Absolutely!
As a first time boat buyer, I am sooo thankful I got a full survey (in water and out), and I would highly recommend getting one! That being said, the extensive survey still missed some things. What was missed in the survey was made up for by the fact that I was looking for a very solid potential Bluewater boat and found one. So I think it’s really important to know where you want to sail and buy a boat for those conditions.
I can add that it's very helpfully to read Nigel Calder, Dave Gerr and other professionals, also visit marinas were boat owners working with their boats and ask them questions, I'm sure you'll meet their real "Sea wolves" who will teach you a lot about boats.
Bought a 1977 Cal 34 and repowered with a three cylinder Yanmar and Walter v-drive and couldn't be happier.
Very well researched and very well presented sir. Everyone who watches this video can learn from this. It’s human nature to become swept up emotionally with certain purchase decisions (your first home is a great example). One can easily become completely blind to the hair on the object of one’s desire. Having a neutral third party to talk to is worth every penny and every minute spent on an unbiased review.
Though the same
Good delivery of the main points, going from positive experience to Do Not Go There Listing. Good boats are smaller boats also with no substitution for Value for Money. Boat terms means - it has to be in very good shape or it will take double the money to get it back into good shapte. Thus you saved the client ALL there money, as it would have been a total loss......
Thank you from Don for explaining these faults on these types sail boats Since it be my first chance in life to do this at least I got good schooling from you on what to look for, and it was good learning Note: that sail boat that size needed fin on the keel also for operating in oceans that's good to know, thank you great informative video that helped me.
Glad to help and thanks for watching!
Tim it’s amazing to see this boat. My slip neighbor is the guy who bought this boat. My only complaint is his wind generator makes a bunch of noise when he’s not around. But it’s a beautiful boat. Was amazing seeing you profile this boat n
Good video presenting critical thinking needed to buy an older boat. Thanks
Any sign of leakage around windows, through hulls, or deck fittings is a big red flag that needs to be thoroughly checked.
this is a must watch for any potential boat buyer - thank you!!!!!
glad to help! thanks for watching :)
I do a fair bit of consulting like you do for local people. One thing that I have come to suggest to potential buyers os to just avoid anything listed by Pop Yachts. In my experience they have yet to be the actual listing broker. Instead, they seem to hijack listings from legitimate brokers then charge a fee to basically arrange a showing with the actual broker. At least, that was my experience on at least 3 Pop Yacht listing that I can quickly recall. Good show and good info as always. 👍👍
That's an interesting comment most of the pop boats I see and I look more I powerboats are all tired and rough and they have been on the market a long time with desperate sellers
But are they bad boats or are you just saying you don’t like them for stealing brokers listings
I have had 2 pop sells sailboats that were a no show by the owner or broker when I had appointments to see them!!!😢😢
Pop sucks!!!
Man, imma have to find someone like you once I look for a boat because I wanna make sure I get the right one and someone who can tell me the red and green flags
I always look for a one owner boat. Then I talk with them and you end up with a gem of a boat. Pay extra for it but you will save ten times the difference since it’s a looked after boat
I´d say that the red flags you´ve already pointed out makes it at total no-no!
Stay clear and find another better one and without any red flags even if more expensive!
Former full time cruiser 2 years then part time for 7. I’m in the process of selling my home and 10 acres on a river in the woods to go back where I felt most alive.
Your content is a classroom for me and is much appreciated as I begin my research in finding the right “sort” of boat for this solo sailor. Shallow draft for the Bahamas but heavy for big waters, roomy but not a slow turtle, maybe a ketch, center cockpit is likely, enough whistles and bells to stay off grid for extended periods and a wish list longer than a politicians stump speech. Yes, a Unicorn.
When I find a buyer that wants to live on a small farm in the middle of nowhere I’m off to search the east coast. I’ll definitely book a consultation when that happens. I’ll have @$80k to play with. With some heavy exceptions I do all my own work.
Just watched your video from 4 years ago, I’m pulling and sealing off any underwater speed transmitters😬yikes! I think the worst of instances like that can be when all the adrenaline dissipates and you just physically and mentally crunched. Well done captain.
Thank you again for you solid content
Where was it that made you feel most alive? I sail locally in South Florida but within 5 years i'm thinking of renting out the house and broadening my sailing horizons. Maybe cruising for a bit and retiring somewhere in Latin America.
On the water, sailing! It didn’t much matter where. But I spent time outfitting in ft Myers then crossed the gulf. Isla Mujeres, then bounced down the Yucatán, Belize, Guatemala. Spent time in the Rio Dulce than some Honduras. All west Carib. If I were going to settle in Latin America I’d look at southern Mexico first. Bacalar is beautiful and accesses to Belize are easy. Personally I’m looking to cruise the east Carib for awhile and eventually May settle in the Azores
thx for your thoughts...can you pinpoint the 4 yo video of the underwater speed transmitters discussion, por favor ?
@@A_Pa-Plainjanepretty dramatic opinion. There's no reason to remove such essential equipment.
Sea cocks can be checked and replaced, eventual with state of the art Bronze materials.
There's is millions of sailors and boats using this sort of equipment since decades.
You don't scrap a car because of a flat tire!
Good idea for a video. I also do boat shopping as an all-ocean Master and I always tell my clients "love the boat but don't fall in love with the boat." There is always another boat.
I would have been out as soon as they required the deposit to come see it. Then not being able to see it out of the water. If it’s too good to be true it usually is.
Same as the reg numbers being blurred. Hard to do the research.
@@olivei2484 agreed, its a shady deal
That boat screams "my old owner was never able to take proper care of me, retired with less money than he expected due to the financial crash, paid the lowest bidder to ferry me to Puerto Rico where I was neglected and took on a lil water during one of those storms that comes through here, upon which I sunk until my giant keel hit bottom and I sat that way for a very long time, until my owner took the insurance payoff, traded me for a Honda Ruckus scooter and $15,000 worth of marijuana and my new owner is a flipper who doesn't love me and just wants me gone. Please help me." Poor thing....
😂
🤣
I don't think many understand just how much work it takes to properly maintain an ocean going boat! My dad cruised in a 52FT Grand Banks and my parents worked tirelessly and seemingly endlessly to keep her maintained and as perfect as it could be. It takes money, knowledge, and desire to keep them nice. You also need to know when to call in an expert here and there to help out with a number of things.
It's fun, but it does take work! Great video!
Wise words… though the dad cruised and parents worked made me smile !
Often ignored is that size brings loads of work and costs. Around 35 foot is my preferred size of boat.
@@lisette2060 YUP! smaller is better in a lot of ways. Managing reefs in the mainsail is also much easier on a small boat than a big one.
@@lisette2060 Agreed. Almost everybody is talking about really big boats, as it that's the only kind. Not all of us are dentists, or lawyers, or own hedge funds.
On any Beneteau, Jenneau or even Lagoon Cat, the bulkhead tabbing cement and joints should be checked. This cement may deteriorate prematurely reducing the bond. This can especially be the case when exposed to salt water. Not to be mistaken with the Lagoon bulkhead design issues.
You really had me at keel bolts. I once looked at a beautiful boat. Even issues that were common to that model had been addressed. Then I looked at the keel bolts. They weren't bolts anymore but piles of rust. Ran from that one.
Keel bolts should be bronze. Stainless is readily corroded if air can't get at it, as in the space between the ballast and the hull.
Basically this only really applies to these French boats. Other boats like Catalinas the keel bolts don't do much once the keel is epoxyed in place and glassed over. For instance my Catalina 36 has been trucked from San Carlos, Mexico to San Diego twice with no damage to the keel. On these French boats you'd remove the keel to truck by just removing bolts or nuts. At the Catalina factory in Saint Petersburg, Florida they were asked to change out a deep draft keel for a shallow draft keel. It took a week of frustration, a lot of man hours and a lot of damage repair to make the customer happy. They swore to never attempt that again!
@@4U812-h1lChanging keel bolts is a standard job, for any experienced European boat builder. Even lay men does it. No wonder your nation is slowly but sure running down the drain 🤔
@@lisette2060 That's an odd reply. If you can't add anything intelligent why reply with an attack on a country?
First red flag for me is that broker. I have run across them before. Things just didn’t add up. And it was more than once.
After selling my 2000 Hunter, I spent 18 mo. trying to find my next boat during Covid. Nothing good was out there and I was looking for a boat ready to go to sea. I finally bought a Jeanneau 39DS out of FL because I was about to lose my mooring in MA if I didn’t have a boat on it. Big mistake. Many if the red flags here existed. Surveyor was no help. Rig survey said it was good for another couple of years. Bottom line- the boat didn’t make it home pulled into Charleston with a broken stay. We spent a month in the hard replacing rigging and rebedding the keel. Have spent the last 3 years making it into the boat I had hoped to buy in the first place.
unsupported rudders are a big one for me, fiddled or dated electronics, cheap stainless, stains, cheap winches, and many you mentioned. a good job sir. k
UA-cam has helped me spot real estate agents with extra steps; and also how to buy good boats. Cheers.
Great video. That owner was hiding a pointy dorsal fin under his wind breaker. There are a lot like it. Caveat emptor x 10.
Thanks.
Rusty keel bolts are the most exaggerated item on the list. These boats have air conditioner drip pans plumbed into the bilge. It makes under the floorboards a moist environment because there is always a puddle near the bilge pump intake. All the bolts eventually get surface rust even after a year. You'll see the most horrible solution to this (Stainless keel bolts). Now you have stainless screwed into iron; two dissimilar metals. I think the paint on the bolts is just half a$% work that corresponds with the rest of the maintenance on that boat. Good video and it just shows that maintenance means more than than the marque when it comes to buying.
My big red flag on the Jenneau 42 was the stove. The spot was designed for a stove with an oven. Perhaps the discoloration of the interior surfaces. No mention of the title. Blurry registration numbers tells me there may be an ownership issue.
We have a 2002 jeanneau 40DS they are good boats. We have the 6.5 draft. We just spent a month in the abacos with no issues. We spent months in Florida again with no issues. So don’t let a deeper draft stop people. You might have to anchor out a bit further but we haven’t found anywhere we couldn’t go.
So true. I couldn't tell if the presenter was talking about himself or someone else when he talked about frequent grounding. Surely navigation is not a lost art!
Thanks for the video. Some great points. One thing you didn't suggest that I thought was it's an ex charter boat.
Perhaps a new engine as the old one was kaput. Perhaps a rebuild and someone rigged the engine hours.
Seeing it bashed around and those keelbolt problems as you say, suggests a very slack owner or one who employs unqualified, cheap shipwrights.
@Markwoods hi ya mark?? Further to your comments regarding your Benny 48. We are two oldies ( 75 & 77) who bought a beneteau Oceanis 34, she was slipped in 2011. We wanted a safe, quick vessel for a jaunt around the west Australian coast with plans to get to the Montebellos Islands which lay west of Karratha about 200 miles out. If you drag up a chart of Western Australia it's well worth the homework.
We have sailed her 2 up from Bunbury to the Abrolhos Islands twice, pretty rough conditions on both jaunts, then another trip from Bunbury to Shark bay, then around the bay to Monkey 🐒 Mia,
This entailed 6 storms with huge waves and all the drama that goes with it. A lovely spot to visit was Denham, where we had to moor for 5 Days due storms where the wind was 55knt with gusts of 75knt was the norm. Boat did not drag and we felt safe at all times. Very dry boat, and VERY easy to handle even for 70+ female, not to steady on my legs and a hip replacement and a crook back.
What i am saying in an long version, is we never felt like we couldn't get out of trouble. Very forgiving boats, can sail by one or a crew of 4 for racing mode. We would buy a bigger Beneteau if we had more years on our clocks.
Hope you keep on sailing your Beneteau for years to come
Kind regards Cheryle
great comment, thx for adding your perspective, much appreciated. signed-jealous lubber
The finest local New England "gunk hole" sailing boat for a couple is the 32ft Herroshoff Meadowlark gaff ketch. A draft of 18 inches, the several boats of this class I saw growing up on Cape Cod 1960s has leaboards. However daggerboards can do as well. 34Ft LWL, fastest boat on a reach in that size. Most were made with massive oak boards, but one had two layers of half inch plywood.
A buddy of mine has a 38ft sim odyssey DS and he has spent a monumental amount of money fixing it all up. I believe it has the massive deep keel as well.
You make a lot of really great points, thank you for your expertise!
Thanks for watching!
Having lived in PR, I believe the social norm there is to "cover up" any faults with duct tape and paint until something falls off. You see it with the homes, cars, and boats. PR population don't have a lot of money, and in my experience, don't take proper care of things from an American perspective. I simply wouldn't consider a boat from there. This isn't a racist thing, simply an acknowledgement of differences in typical mindset from what I'm accustomed to stateside.
As a puerto rican, i couldnt agree more
Even if you JUST think about this boat, I would not even go watch that boat. I don't know how PR is now, for a beach and sun holiday I guess it is still good. Point is, going to a country as a tourist is always a bit tricky. Can you find a place to sleep, where the local owners earn some money, in a huge hotel your dollars are gone abroad within half a second, and how happy is the local staff? Whoops.
A lot of great tips! Keel bolts. Especially! Also recognizing the too good to be true price and blurred out registration.
I bought a CSY 44 w/o in the VI and sailed it to PR for the refit. We are now out sailing and in Saint Croix. My boat is the one to the port. My sister's to starboard. Never been on it. Owner lives off island.
Tim slightly confused by your comment that Dacron sail good for 20 years.
Also, older Jenneau, before being told by French gov to join with Benateau , we’re all stick built without interior liner and solid hulls , very different construction.
Cheers Warren
Always remember you are not just vetting the boat but the previous owner as well. If they seem off, walk away.
That’s the best advice
There's 11 million boats to choose from, in the US.
Yessss... you're buying the owner as much as the boat
@@drew6116 - or more importantly the owners problems ... self inflicted or no.
Exactly. I've purchased many cars over the years and among the top 3 criteria is a good owner!
There are two great instances when owning a boat. When you buy it and when you sell it.
I completely understand why fast, elegant boats like the Beneteau and Jenaeu are so attractive to so many. The exposed props and rudders of these types of boat are a very major risk for these designs. One should consider what happens to these boats when they have any kind of brush with the bottom or even some kind of line. A boat with a fuller keel, a protected robust rudder can sail away from many mishaps whereas these lovely sleek designs end up disabled.
i once fell in love with a boat, a 30ft colvic sailor with a custom interior and buldge keel for £2k, but once i realised how much work there would need to be and with major exams comming up; i was 17 at the time, i just could pull the ripcord and buy her, i still regret that discion today even though it was definitly the right one to do, at that point i had be sailing 10 years so i was to finally own my own boat.
Good video, thanks. During the first boat, i wondered when the subject of Jenneau windows would come up.
Another great video, Tim! I did my ASA 103/104 on a Jeanneau 42. It was the 3 cabin model and the aft berths were quite small. But I really like the aft stateroom model. That was really nice!!! At some point, I will want your help though. Not just with buying the boat, but finding a qualified and reliable skipper who can help me get that blue water experience I need. There's nothing that can replace hands-on experience, no matter how good your ASA instructor was.
Learn by doing! That's a great point!
The biggest worry with "mystery boats" down there (and especially FL), is if they got nailed in a hurricane. Oddities like rust or discolorations in the bilges or behind the cabin liners and woodwork can suggest this because the clean-up and repairs don't always go on in hard to reach places. But you are absolutely correct that it must be viewed on the hard before buying. Blisters are a sad thing to discover after the fact.
Where does this guy get all that knowledge thank you for the knowledge and unbiased view of your topic.
Thanks for watching!
Unfortunately there’s always a buyer who doesn’t know what they are looking at and doesn’t employ a surveyor to report on the condition. Dubious sellers know that buyer is there somewhere. Good video.
Don’t forget to check all rigging wires specifically if the unit goes up 12 years old. Can be 10/8 k (Spain)some cases to substitute it but if breaks is consider your fault and some insurances will not cover it
Thanks again Tim. I appreciate how this channel is about helping people make informed decisions when buying a boat. I have learned more about sailing and sailboats from you than any other sources. Thanks again from SV Keeling It! Nackawic ,NB
Excellent video.
The biggest situation for me based on what you've shared is the keel. The condition of the Keel itself and the attachment and then equally important if not more is the style of the keel. My opinion for sailing Bahamas is that is a pass
I wouldn't sail a boat with a compromised keel anywhere deeper than a bathtub.
I’m glad I came across this video which spoke very highly of Jeanneau, myself and the owner of his Viking 65 which I’m the captain of, is looking at a sailing yacht as his retirement yacht, we looked at a 56 exclusive, which was new in 2018, it’s a lovely boat that was left in storage for four years, so it has obvious sign of neglect, which could be sorted out quite easily, but having now seen this video makes me push the buyer even harder into purchasing this particular yacht. 😊
Great video! I wish I could have talked to you eight years ago when I bought my 88 43’Irwin Mlll
Boat looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet. Heavy wear and tear in the inside, very slapdash repair on the leaking ports. Lots and lots of headaches for a future owner. Thanks for identifying red flag items.
Oh boy.
I got hooked after seeing a Jeanneau Sun Odessey Deck Saloon 49!
I know its not the best for live aboard ocean crossings.
Thanks for the reality check.
I sure do appreciate your channel! As, I am nearing retirement, and my plans are living in the Caribbean! My plans are to live on board and enjoy the great weather and the good life! Been a subscriber since I found you a year ago! I do plan on living aboard a sailing vessel! I am a seasoned vet, as I race around Lake Michigan every year! Been to Puerto Rico, and I was in love when I landed. I'm about a year and a half, before I reach the starting line, on a body of water, not named Lake Michigan. In 1983, we took a bow first knock down. Talk about violent! I was on a C & C 41. People don't respect Lake Michigan's power! Anyway's great channel!
I understand your concern around the Californian registration, but it doesn’t mean the boat was ever in California. My boat was registered and home ported in Vancouver, BC, but had never left Florida and the Bahamas. Worth questioning, though.
Just started looking, looking for future auctions in Houston Tx. Should be a bunch of deals after the hurricane.
How do you keep non-stainless keel bolt nuts (which I understand are necessary--can't use stainless on stainless) from rusting?
Overall condition and care is very important. There are many things you just can't see on a boat and have to go by indication based on the things you can see.
i dont even sail but i subbed. you are a smart fella.
I am more interested in surviving force 12, then sailing an upscale condo. Very good point about the owners method of maintenence and what it can mean. Look at the keel bolts, noooo!
Betamarine is the way to go. I threw out my old Volvo Penta - to hard to work on, parts too expensive ( if you can find them). My Beta 38 has been a godsend.
Tim I love all of your videos but I've got to call you on this island bed particularly in the Juneau just be clear I went and Googled Island bed. The following is the definition even though they do mention an RV but when you mention an island bed I at least think of three sides to get off of that doesn't require to scoot out of the bed toward the end just like my bed at my house I can roll off the side and easily stand up that's why I like Pullman berths. Here's the quote from Google.
"Unlike corner beds or beds against the wall, island beds are surrounded by space on all sides, resembling an "island" within the sleeping quarters. This design is often found in larger motorhomes, and it comes with a variety of configurations and features."
I'm in my late 60s and I do not look forward to scooting off the back end of the bed to get up two times in the middle of night to go pee it is way more convenient just to roll out just like you would at your house to get out of bed so that you can use the restroom. Just saying.
I also don't want six steep steps to go up and down especially in bad weather so the deck salon is supposed to be really close or even the at cockpit Floor level but we will find is some boats having only four steps which seems to be acceptable for me and important. So I will celebrate when any content provider addresses a true walk around at least three sides walk around bed that I can easily get in and out of. So what I'm looking for is a dual helm, a side entry bed one side like a Pullman or a true island bed would be better with decent Headroom. And if I'm going to have my wish list I really like a lazy boy in the saloon to watch your UA-cam videos. Also, wih a budget of not more than $125K.
In 2014 i was looking to purchase a Farrier F22 trimaran here in Australia. I am in the southern state of Victoria and the boat was in Queensland, a northern state 2000kms away. I ordered the service of a marine survey on the boat. The surveyor rang me to say the boat is a zipper, meaning there was serious delamination between the fiberglass coating and the foam core on all 3 hulls. I have experienced delamination before were a 1cm bubble turned out to be a 1m squared repair. This was a no go for me. I purchase a different one (used the same surveyor) and it is a great boat.
Have you ever made an episode about the pros and cons of buying a cheap hurricane damaged boat and fixing it up vs more $ for turn key.
I actually had that boat in my favorites on Boat Trader. Not a favorite anymore!!! thanks for the warnings!
Cabin leaks resulting in stains on the interior and rot in the wood. I'm buying a Freedom 25 which has both of those, but they're limited to two places, and I can deal with those. Otherwise, none of the red flags you point out apply. Paying $4K for it, which is competitive for boats that size in the Finger Lakes.
Just bought a 1981 MacGregor Venture 21’ from my friend. We took it out last summer for the first time. This year it’s mine.
I suspect (hope) you mean 1981, not 81 feet.
@@DavidPeebles-hi3sk yes thanks
The best thing a buyer can do is be willing to walk away. That works in all aspects of purchasing
this video was very helpful, I wasn't entirely sure what to look for, I mean I know of some stuff but this example is very good and was very useful. Thank you!
I sailed a Benetau from San Juan to key west. It was so squeaky and creaky, You couldn't sleep in it under sail.
Sailing to windward in the open sea is not pleasant.
That is why they call them Bendy slows . LOL . Actually all the modern production boats are pretty cheaply made and the new hull forms while fast are not sea kindly and do not go to weather well . 13 feet of beam carried right to the stern is great for space but not great for going to weather.
Unfortunately many of the these boats are not at all well made
@@timdunn2257 Depends on the boat , it can be absolute misery in many of these new boats . However in the right boat it can be exhilarating. . I suspect so many of the people that complain about going to weather are in boats that do it very poorly . Now having said that , if I have a 2 day passage pounding into big waves can be less fun than a reach .
Many of the wide boats with flat runs and plumb bows will pound where a more traditional boat will glide and they won't point either making for a frustrating day . Fat out chain plates are convenient but not for performance up wind
Great Video! Lots of good info!
I've seen a hard wave detach and shifted the inner shell of one of those,,but they cool boats just not ocean crossing boat,, good for Caribbean charters
its very nice to have some reference for what to look for and the angles and nuance in which troubles may be laying in wait... thank you very much...
At first glance it looks nice. Thank you for opening my eyes!
You’re the last person I’ll ask for a consult
thank you for this - the in depth common sense would have been so useful before I bought my first and only boat (so far) - subscribed
c
I like my 1982 cave. Fewer portholes on a blue water boat means fewer leaks .
I mean it's going to sit at it's slip 99% of the time empty so does it even matter
@@Snarf_Le_Wombat Our boat gets big trips and long times at sea then there are times it sits at the dock depending on what life throws at us . This is a pretty common story for a lot of boats . Here is the but . Whether it is at sea or at the dock the maintenance clock is always ticking . Some of it can be differed without any damage to the vessel some can’t.
@@natcalverley4344 Yuh buddy that 6 knot life