This and That: 2023 Grand Prix de France (Adam Siao Him Fa, Isabeau Levito, Ilia Malinin)
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- This week, Adam Siao Him Fa, Isabeau Levito, Ilia Malinin, Wakaba Higuchi and Yuma Kagiyama headlined the 2023 Grand Prix de France. In dance, Guignard and Fabbri defeated Fournier Beaudry and Sorensen to claim the gold. Lia Pereira and Trennt Michaud scored an upset win over Sara Conti and Niccolo Macii in pairs. Rion Sumiyoshi landed a quad. We break it all down on the latest edition of 'This and That'.
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(Figure skating choreography)
Yuma’s step sequence building in intensity with the climactic music gave me chills every time. I’m here for Yuma’s comeback 🙌🏼
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
He has matured so much and really improved his expressiveness. Love it
the way Yuma can just "whoosh" those quad landings is just magical.
💯
So take-on about Adam : "french sloppiness", "insincere artistry", "ilia is a better skater", "whatever printed shirt is wearing". What a joke, the talk was quite insulting to most of the skaters you're talking about. Feels like you didn't see the same performance as everyone else!
Yuma having Carolina Kostner in the kiss & cry -- what an absolute flex
Felt Adam won fairly and has moved on in flow and confidence. Ilya has obviously improved skating skills but knee bend still poor and long programme felt pedestrian at times but obviously great jumps. Was excited to see Yuma back from injury and think he could challenge anyone if he continues to up the difficulty. His exhibition piece was sublime.
Back to back Ilia look slower
Adam's jump landings are not even on the slightest running edge.
@@ArohaStill That's my major criticism too. He was gifted some massive GOE points.
Ilia has improved, but he still looks like a kid currently. I didn't like those hands movements Ilia did in the SP to encourage larger audience responses. I wonder if those were choreographed into the program, or if he did it on his own.
Adam has maturity and is the better skater when we're talking about what the blades actually do on the ice. I think his programs last season were better but Adam has so much conviction in his movements that you cannot take your eyes off him.
Yes, I agree that Adam won fairly. But I think that Yuma's PCS were too low or Adam's and Ilia's were too high. I don't see how Yuma's could be below Adam's and there should be way more than a two-point difference between Yuma and Ilia.
Adam 🇫🇷 was absolutely phenomenal. Dave, fair enough if you don’t appreciate Benoit’s “avant- garde” style, but you can’t simply write him off as “Frenchy and sloppy” without elaborating on: a)the ice coverage, b) jump quality, and c) posture. Did you think he was “sloppy” in these areas and Ilia was better?
And there are some subjective elements how many “expressive” moments there are and how long the positions are held. I would even describe Adam as very artistic.
I LOVED the showdown between these two young men! With Yuma, Shoma, Kevin, Jun-hwan…Montreal will be amazing!!!❤
(But yes, I hope Adam hasn’t peaked too soon 🙏)
Adam is incredibly polished compared to Ilia. These guys are clearly biased… they always called Nathan “sloppy” and he was more polished when he was 10 compared to Ilia’s current poor upper body control (his flailing arms look awful)
Also the 2 minutes on Nina like "well, we don't like her, it doesn't work for us". She just came out of nowhere (it was her first GP) to skate two clean programs with great jumps, spins and SS. Her style can be criticized but gosh, she almost win (and honestly deserved to win) and didn't get one good comment. How can you watch Adam and Nina putting performances like that and don't underline any of their qualities. Feels like TSL is only talking about their very subjective appreciation of personalities and performances without really talking about skating. And frankly they are quite contemptuous in the way they try to be sassy, I really hope that the skaters currently competing are not listening to this...
They have driven a lot of people away and refuse to change or improve their content and attitude
As an African American, I had no problem with Lucas’ African program. He was very respectful in the outfit and the program content. He has his own style and I have enjoyed his difference.
💯:and I loved his interpretation!
Thank you for sharing your view. I did wonder about this!
Thank you for taking the time to say that. I think people get too worried, and it would be a really boring world if we just never let anybody use cultural music and create tasteful costumes and choreography that reflect the culture. There's a line, and I haven't seen anybody cross it for years and years. Hopefully that will continue.😊
I found it odd that they said a “white boy” skating to African/Lion King is tone deaf but a Japanese woman skating to Lion King is OK? Brutschgj is an up and comer!
@@bassethound1good point. Or a British Dance Team or An American Pairs Team. So many people have skated to Lion King. This is the first time racism came into the picture.
Ilia has improved tremendously, but I thought Adam was clearly better on all components here, particularly in the LP.
Adam was perfect thanks.
Yuma's quad sal was my moment of the week, I gasped...it was so lovely.
"Insincere artistry..." , really? isn't it a case of subjectivity? Any conceptual choreography, something a bit more "cerebral" is deemed fake or arrogant in certain corners ... PapCiz were often the butt of this type of dislike. Isn't it a matter of personal taste? Listening to you, what I hear is that you went from idolizing Benoît to hating his work. Fine. It is absolutely your right but it is also a very personal take. Did Adam's performance deserved to be called "insincere" and "sloppy"? Not for me! On that day, Adam's performance trumped Ilia's. It might not be the same next time they meet, but it would be great to have a commentary based on facts rather than on a knee-jerk reaction.
Like Ilia’s HBO soundtrack programs designed to go viral (not happening) are totally sincere in their “artistry” lol
Dave, I have to respectfully disagree with your take on Adam vs Illia. You have to be so biased to say that Adam's artistry and skating skils aren't better than Illia's.... that's insane!!
This was a very very strong men's event (the top 3). All three could contend for the world title and are showing great improvements overall. Yes Yuma is watered down but wow what a special skater. His jumps are liquid gold and his speed and interpretation so good.Ilia is right on track in his development and showing great consistency. And Adam - I find him so improved in terms of consistency and difficulty. He was not overscored. Shoma has real competition this year if everyone stays healthy. Overall, the top men are putting the top women to shame - more speed and better interpretation through the footwork and choreo sequences.
I do think Adam won fair and square, but I think both he and Ilia were overscored in PCS compared to Yuma.
I feel the comments about Camden, Stephen, Boyang etc and ‘what are they trying to achieve’ are a bit harsh - obviously not everyone can be a medalist, does that mean no one else should skate? I thought all three skated generally well here and I enjoy watching them. I’m sure they all have their own individual goals, whether that be skating two clean programmes, a score they want to achieve or a certain placing at nationals.
Boyang especially should definitely keep skating if he's able. He's China's top skater and if he works hard, he can be in the top 10 in the world. That's huge. We keep Jason Brown around in the United States for the same reason.
And Stephen is only 18! He's been around so long I forget how young he is.
I agree. Who are we "armchair critics" to question the motivations and goals of world class athletes.
I agree. That negative tone is one thing I don't like about this channel. I mean if we're going to take that perspective we could ask Dave the same thing: where is his skating going?
@@Rachel-rs7jn Yes, you could literally ask anyone that - I skate because I love it and don't compete because I hate competing lol. I just want to pass all my tests. We all have our own goals.
Personally I'm happy Adam got first here. Yes, it's a Benoit program which we've seen on about 50% of skaters at this point, however, I think Adam is one of the only skaters to actually do it WELL. He makes those shapes and lines actually make sense rather than look awkward (I think of Kaori's Benoit program and shudder). And it would have sat really ill with me if Ilia had been first with the mistake he made; it would have felt too much like favoritism. I do worry that Adam has now set his own bar so high that he won't be able to surpass it the rest of the season because this does feel like a peak performance for him, whereas Ilia has so much more room for improvement.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but if it is for a skater like Adam, who has no stylistic short comings that Benoit has to "mask", I actually enjoy Benoit's choreography! 🤷♀️
omg BEN WA
Please I can't tell if you are joking re: "Ben Wa" 🙃
Ah, thank you everyone for correcting me 😅 I’ve never seen his name in print before; I should have looked before typing this out. My apologies!
@@ilovetheocean12 Lol. I just assumed you were taking a poke at "Ben Wa"! 😁
Yuma is so good that even him popping his 3A looked super pretty
Yuma was my moment of the week
Timestamps (update in random)
…
Pairs 37:40
- 37:51 Italian
- 38:04 Lia/Trennt
- 41:58 Ellie And Danny
Men 47:16
- 47:25 Boyang Jin
- 48:43 Stephen Gogolev
- 49:21 Camden (Along with Boyang and Stephen)
- 51:05 back to Camden
- 53:40 Gogolev
- 53:54 back to boyang
- 54:40 Yuma Kagiyama
- 57:10 Adam
- 57:53 Ilia
- 59:11 back to Adam
- 1:00:08 back to ilia
With all due respect, the last thing you could say about Malinin was that he was underscored. While his skating and performance improved, it didn't improve as dramatically as some of his GOE showed recently. Adam won fair and square.
He is MASSIVELY overscored… like does he deserve to break Nathan’s records with these shitty programs and UR jumps lol
I love Wakaba
Adam’s victory was well deserved. Jesus Dave, you must work on your objectivity. Ilia’s skating skills are awful, and you know that.
It isn't like Dave is an Ilia fan. He's been very critical. So when he says he thinks Ilia has improved, that is his objective opinion.
I’ve heard Dave being harshly critical of many skaters many times, he has no problem with that. I’ve also heard him criticize Ilia on more than one occasion, but that’s à totally different tone, kind a soft and forgiving. If Ilia wasn’t skating for the US, I suspect Dave would be laughing and and making jokes about him.
@@sigridurhafsteinsdottir8942 I don't remember a soft tone. I seem him as mostly harder on American skaters (and/or their teams) because of the sad state of US skating now. After Ilia's comment on how he'd be scored higher in PCS if he were gay, Dave was very clear with, no dude, you've got a LOT of work to do!
Can’t believe how two faced Dave can be when it comes to Ilia who he’s criticised and now after his mistakes he made no comment. 😮
@@letitiakearney2423 I don't agree with his opinion, to me Adam is always superior in PCS to Ilia, even with a "boring" Benoit program - I also am tired of Benoit, but liked this program. I don't see it as two-faced. Dave's opinions are often unique to him.
after seeing lindsay's short, i want to see what isabeau could do with a sandra program! simple dress, holding beautiful positions, complex choreo that isn't cluttered
Same!
It’s so obvious how much more expensive Lindsay’s sp feels compare to Isabeau’s…
@@PeiwenTanbassoon821Me too!
Aaaaaaand we will never see it because Isabeau's coach won't let us have nice things.
That’s an odd statement, considering I’ve heard nothing but glowing compliments pertaining to Isabeau’s choreography, interpretation of music, sublime artistry, superior flexibility, etc, -from the judges, figure skating coaches who know more than the average pedestrian viewer/fan. There’s a reason why both Dave’s guests Christy Ness (who coached Kristy Yamagucci to Oly gold in 92”), and Mary Scotvold (who’s coached skaters like Scott Hammilton, Paul Wylie, Nancy Kerrigan)…have stated here on TSL, that only Isabeau has that star quality, and they both watched Lindsay as well, but both are not impressed with the rest of the US women’s field.
Moreover, if you’re Isabeau, why would you question your at present skyrocketing success? Isabeau has her own unique style, and it works (as far as her artistry goes), I do agree with you about her LP costume, but all her other costumes suit her. It’s true what they say, once you become US Nats champion (and contender for a Worlds medal), then the armchair critics come out of the woodwork.
For me, Yuma was the most emotionally resonant. He is such a gorgeous skater.
Dang, I did not have "Ilia has better skating skills than Adam" on my bingo card today! I don't agree with this, but still love the commentary, as always. But, 100%, moment of the week was Yuma's free skate. Just ::chef's kiss:: And his quad sal should have had the highest jump GOE of the competition.
Thanks for the content warning in your first sentence now I don’t need to finish watching this video lol
Yes, and Yuma should have had the highest PCS (and definitely more than two points above Ilia).
Gubanovas coach desperately preventing her from throwing a tantrum in a kiss and cry was just hilarious 😂
You are right. I saw that. He had to put his hand across her lap like three times.
I don’t think she wanted to cry in front of the camera but she wasn’t happy that’s for sure.
Is he Zhulin?
lol she was so mad haha
I was kinda mad too lol I don’t think she deserved to be that lowballed
There is no way Ilia is a better skater than Adam. Artistically, no comparison. Yuma will eventually top them both.
That was the biggest joke of that talk. So much shit thrown to Adam, not a positive word while is jumps and performance were outstanding, You can obviously seems a nationalistic bias behind the analysis.
Ilya is 💯 Better:and it will be proved
are you serious . Ilia skating is so horrible @@ingai7014
After the interview dropped I looked up the schedules of the hardest ballet school in the world, the Vaganova. They have less active physical training hours logged than what Eteri claims that Zagitova endured. They also have a classroom education and mandatory recovery periods.
I'm going to watch the interview after this. I hope there's translations.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh what interview is this?
Because ballerinas have at least 10-20 year careers, not 4 years.
And even then, my Russian tutor told me that locals in St. Petersburg call Vaganova a concentration camp because of how thin the students are required to be. It’s so sad how abusive and anti-health sports and art can be
@@erinthomasent Truth. One ballerina I follow who's a Vaganova grad, when she posts in regular clothes I'm like, "Damn! You're SO thin! But weirdly also so muscular"!
So refreshing to hear Dave speak about Ilia in such a positive way, he deserves it! But I am not surprised that Adam beat him on this particular occasion. I was fortunate enough to be in France last week, and took the opportunity to go to Angers and watch the GP free skate. As much as I was rooting for Ilia I have to say that Adam's performance was simply electric and seemed flawless. Of course it didn't hurt being in front of his home crowd cheering wildly for him, but still, this was his night. But we all seem to agree about Yuma. For the first time I got to see him live and I hardly know what to say. Such a beautiful skater, such flow and musicality, I wish he would have skated for more than just four minutes...
I completely disagree. The narrative I see the most online is not the 4A being valued too low. Is Ilia being overscored. And not literally people going "he was overscored". But rather I see SO MANY. Incredible Adam, amazing Yuma, beautiful XYZ. But no compliments to Ilia's skating. Which to me screams.
I guess I don’t get why Dave always has to find a way to do mean Plushenko when he is mentioned. Even when it is not called for. I get that you were not happy with the Russians and I certainly do not think that Ereri should be allowed to teach another skater again. You had a Russian Skating journalist interview a few months ago and she spoke about Plushenko’s believe in support of his students. You don’t have to like his style or how he goes about his business. As a lover of skating, he may not be your favourite, but show a little respect, Dave. If there are things you think he is guilty of, in terms of doping or treating his students badly or anything else like that, you should speak about it. Instead of using the “I’m gay and bitchy“ line. It means you belittles the people who watch you. We watch you because you are knowledgeable and you love the sport. Several months ago you said something insulting about 10 year old Alexander Plushenko and commented derogatorily about Evgeni Plushenko‘s relationship with his first son from his first marriage. It’s disappointing. By all means, Plushenko learnt from the maestro, Alexei Mishin. I do not doubt that Plushenko is not yet in the same league as his Mishin. But clearly, Mishin sort something in Plushenko that was special and guided him to several world figure skating championship titles and several Olympic medals (including an Olympic men‘s gold). I enjoyed the gossiping nature of your output but sometimes I have to switch off and not watch you for several weeks because what you were saying makes me so uncomfortable in the way that you say it. I imagine that pattern will continue. You will bitch and I will not watch for a while and then I’ll come back because you do educate and you do entertain. But you take it too far.
amen. i thought i am the only one who thinks the same
I feel the same and I follow the same cycle. (Not necessarily specifically about Plushenko, but the snarky and sometimes just mean comments in general.)
Loved Jonathan's comments about his piano experiences when he was learning- as a pianist I remember my professor in University once told me that slower, "easier" sounding 2nd movements are often the hardest to play because it's all bare bones. If you don't have proper technique you can't play it well and everyone notices. So I think it does translate to skating as well!!!
Love this analogy
Yes I agree. This was one thing I felt was lacking in Wakaba's free skate - there was no "down" time to really feel the music. She has the skating skills to carry it off.
I honestly thought, Ilia should've been scored lower in the sp, after the stumble in step sequence he seemed too rushed and almost out of his body...that should've reflected on his pcs more. And his lp is merely a bland meh. When compared to any of the top men, in terms of music and performance l, it does him no favours. Adam was simply made fewer mistakes, was more consistent with the music, and since ilia wasn't doing the quad axel and they were both doing quad lutzes, that leveled ilias technical edge to an extent. And if you see past competitions Adam has been consistently scored amongst the highest in his PCS over the last years.
Imo isu/usfs does not need to artificially prop up ilia's scores...he's clearly the talent of his generation. He'll get there in time. They need to let him grow in the hearts and minds of audiences organically. And maybe just give him better, more interesting long programs.
My moments of the week are Wakaba's LP and every second Yuma was on the ice. I was never particularly a fan of Wakaba's, so I was surprised to find myself tearing up during her program. She just looked so grateful to be back, and so "in charge" of her skating. And Yuma...he doesn't know how good he is, and I forgot how good he is. He's got that same "something" that Shoma has. I hope Yuma can stay healthy and keep skating for many years because I need to follow him on that journey!
the last half of Yuma's FS was amazing, and the very reason why I follow figure skating all these years.
The Top Gun rhythm dance is my favorite. It's the only one that makes me forget the theme is 80s, lol.
Ilia’s quads don’t have as much air and also quite a few of them are short of rotation. He is clearly still growing and not in his adult body yet… don’t count on his quads surviving until the Olympics
Ilia had a UR or two that was not called. He was lucky it was as close as it was.
We need Shoma!❤
tbf Ilia isn't competing against his previous self. To say that Adam seems insincere (I'm neither here nor there on that, Benoit choreo is always a Choice, for sure) while Ilia seems much improved is immaterial. I was never a huge fan of Jason Brown, I thought his performances were superficial. Same with Patrick Chan. Even Hanyu could be corny as hell. But even though those performances weren't for me, the delivery was still there. The lines were there, the skill, the full body commitment. Ilia has none of those things yet. Like Grassl, he has more desire than ability at the moment, and until those two things match, he deserves the lower score. Adam won this on PCS and StSq/ChSq GOE and each of those points (imo ofc) was deserved.
🍃🍀🍃 ~ Не врите. Hanyu никогда не был банальным, тем более "чертовски". UPS ! ~ 😱 ~
I can’t take anyone serious that calls Jason Brown superficial. He puts his whole self into every performance.
@@Appaddict01 all I mean to say is that not every brand of artistry is for everyone, and not every message resonates with every person. I agree that Brown put his whole self into the performance, but sometimes what he seemed to be trying to say seemed facile, or incomplete, or beyond his range to me. That doesn't mean he wasn't fully committed to it. The same is true of Siao Him Fa here. Not everyone is with it, but you can't deny the skill and commitment, and that's what judges are meant to judge, not how it made them feel, personally.
@@user-pz6go4ez9r he played air violin in origin.
I agree, I think it is a matter of taste. I find many of the "very emotional" skaters to feel like they're overacting and mostly emoting just one range of feelings, I call it "intense longing." Reaching for something just out of reach, etc. Even when it's well done it feels cheap now because we see it all the time. I was impressed with Ilia's improvement and he's clearly trying to portray emotion, just not the same corny way, which is good. He's only 18. I hope he continues to improve. I enjoyed his programs more than Adam's, which are kind of too much to process.
Sorry Adam whas totally better than Illian
Thanks guys yet again great - totally agree with your assessment of the Ice Dance. I think Adam deserved to win over Ilya here. Illya tripped after trying to hype up the crowd and not concentrating. In the Free he has room for a quad loop near the beginning and/or the quad axel. Isabeau’s coach was *cold* in the kiss and cry - the Louis Vuitton bag had a chair to itself.
Also, although long lives - RIP Ute Müller and Oleg Protopopov - huge contributions to figure skating
what is wrong with Isabeau’s coach? It was like she was trying to channel Eteri, no warmth, no reaction, no interaction with Isabeau at the K&C…
Yeah creepy vibes lol
isabeu has to get out of that prison she has grown out her coach . her costume- disaster. programs- so, so. a girl needs a good coach.
Channeling Eteri I think could be problematic and potentially destructive.
Yes, I found the coach's reaction when Isabeau won quite disturbing. She didn't even look at her! Seriously, your forever student wins her first senior Grand Prix and you silently sit there looking annoyed?!? The fact that the coach choreographs Isabeau's programs instead of bringing in Sandra or Lori or ANYONE ELSE, is a huge red flag.
She wasn’t happy because Isabeau made several mistakes. Isabeau wasn’t exactly thrilled either based on her reaction after her final position on the ice. She only perked up when she saw her score as she wasn’t sure what her score was going to be. Happy to win but I’m sure she was very disappointed with her skate.
What's weird about the French team skating to French music from the 80's? They didn't dodge the 80's theme.
The problem with that RD is you wouldn't know what they're trying to be unless you know the source material especially with him not really resembling anything from the song nor the 80s theme and just leaving you wondering why is she a puppet.
@@PeiwenTanbassoon821 To me it's very clear. She wants you be who she and not a puppet of the generale opinion, he is the general opinion trying to push her back in the puppet role and in the end it turns out he's also a puppet of the general opinion.
For me the 80's where new beat, new wave and having a super short haircut.
@@lindamaes6454 Oh she's fine theme wise. It's him not really doing anything styling wise to match her making the RD look confusing.
Wakaba's biggest problem is her own Fed hates her, always has. She gets no support. Look at this event. Super strict on rotation calls on her while Sumiyoshi and Levito get away with obvious URs. And lower PCS than both of them too. Her PCS should be miles over them.
Japanese Fed rewards consistency. I think that has always been a challenge for her and injury.
@@ArohaStill They haven't liked her since juniors for various reasons. Consistency had zero to do with it
@@joeyartk really？like how？like sent Kaori to Olympic and sent Wakaba to worlds even Kaori was 2nd and Wakaba was 4th? hmmmm
@irriyay4812 Japan only had 2 spots that year. Higuchi was the best Japanese woman that season and the only one to qualify for Grand Prix final. Kihira was third, but not age eligible. Only Nationals winner is guaranteed to move on. Many people thought Japan would pick Wakaba because she was the better skater than Sakamoto that season and rated higher on most of the selection criteria. They kind of compromised and chose Kaori for Olympics and Wakaba for Worlds. The Olympics were the big prize however. But if you remember, Kaori was very generously scored at Nationals for a first year senior compared to Higuchi who was their best that season. Which supports my point.
@@joeyartk kaori got good score because she had good performance. Do you suggest she didn’t deserve that score? She fell in Grand Prix Russia but got silver in skate America that season. Wakaba did great the first half of the season. I personally watched her in coc and felt she should win there. But unfortunately she got injury and the not so successful in the later half. I’ve watched her since junior and she had this issue that once she failed one or two jumps and she almost lost any interest to finish the rest of the program. That’s her biggest problem in my opinion. And she hasn’t finished one great season always up and down not like satoko or kaori who can carry the team when needed. And she hadn’t got one national champion. You can also count how many times she’s done two clean programs. Prove me wrong
ITA with Jonathan about Gubanova. She usually is giving nothing in terms of emotional performance, but her SP this season seems like a smart workaround for that. It’s a totally different vibe than what she’s been giving. But then comes her LP, and I’m reminded why I’m always left feeling meh.
Agreed on all counts. I really liked the short and then the long felt a little tired and familiar.
I watched the first half of Wakaba's skate without sound and thought I had the speed turned up on my youtube setting. Her jump rotations are so fast. 😅
Dave, the hypervigilance that you're sensing from Olivia isn't entirely unwarranted. During the legs-out twizzle in practice at Skate America, she tripped and was on her knees; he failed to notice. His blades kept helicoptering closer and closer to her head as he carried on obliviously. I feared an involuntary decapitation was unfolding in horrifying slow motion right before me, and a moment of collective !!! hung over the arena before she rose, narrowly escaping what might have been a spectacularly ugly accident. I was able to find footage of it, but the angle makes it seem less dramatic than it played out in real life. No idea if the team has endured similar incidents, but it was one of the scariest moments that I've witnessed on ice.
I'm still not over the fact that Levito's team pretty obviously didn't understand the concept of the white crow. It's not a bird! 🤦🏽♀️
It's a metaphor for a weirdo or an outsider. Seeing this costume that tries to portrait a real BIRD always makes me laugh - I can't believe no one watched the movie before deciding on the costume. It looks kinda helpless to me.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly. Compare to Kolyada's costume in the original White Crow program -- he's portraying the dancer, the protagonist. Every time I see Isabeau's costume I cringe.
That's your way to look at it, your opinion and some. You see "bird" in it, I don't. You assume no one has watched the movie and think a team of seasoned professionals: Russian coach, Russian choreographer, dress maker and agent don't have a clue? Now you make me laugh.
I am very happy with the judges decision on Ilya and Adam. I just wish they would have done the same with Isabeau Levito
Agreed
Completely agree
She had a deserved first place. Ninas skate was boring abd basic. Isabeau actually pulled people in and had much harder content as well as a way better short
@@livklein5215harder content? You mean content that she cannot perform correctly.
@@Jeremy-wp4yh it is still a much higher base value and also fyi she didnt fall and if u payed attention to other competitions as well you would know that she can perform it. Honestly she was the only interesting skater at the comp so like 🤷🏻♀️
So happy to see Yuma back!
Also, Gubanova's short program really reminded me of Papadakis and Cizeron's whacking routine due to Gubanova's outfit. Maybe if doing a whacking routine, which Papadakis and Cizeron introduced to the skating world, a different color outfit from theirs would have been better.
My moment of the week was Guignard and Fabbri's free dance. I agree that the music for the short program is too weird and does not bring out their qualities. To me they are the lovebirds I have been missing since Klimova and Ponomarenko. Chock and Bates are obvious together, too, but for them it's like they're consciously and beautifully showing it to us, and my favorite moments of the Italian couple are when he kisses her hand before they start or she kisses him at the end... I feel more like I'm in on a secret watching them. He looks like he worships her.
A skater like Nina Pinzarrone should be holding a beautiful spiral for like ten times longer than she did in that free program, IJS is ruining good skaters potential
This is why I want the Spiral Sequence brought back! Or at least have a required choreo sequence where EVERY move must be held AT LEAST 4 seconds each! 🤷♀️
So Adam vs. Shoma at Cup of China! Right now we have four guys who can score above 300. That makes this so exciting.🤗
Nina should’ve won.
What is this alleged personality of Ilia’s? His “ oh wow I can’t believe how good I am?” mixzone interview? Zero charisma whatsoever.
Lol. This is why I keep saying he should lean into this and skate to something like The Right Stuff. The headlines would write themselves. 🤷♀️
This sounds like a teenager acting like a teenager.
Zero charisma and he’s not marketable in the US either with his Russian accent and strange speaking style
What's with so many singles skaters kneeling or lying on the ice this year at the end of their program? It's like dance in the 80s.
I feel like this week’s commentary was unnecessarily harsh throughout. The Canadian pair is improving from week to week, she’s new to pairs and they’ve only been skating together for a year or so. They have great potential and they skated quite close to clean. Give them the credit they are due. Their win here doesn’t threaten Deanna & Max but it will push them at nationals. The Canadanes are amazing and electric. I feel like they are being penalized all season for one mistake, which seems unfair when Chock can fall on her butt and still win. 🙄
Small note on Zagitova's bloody "legs". The word for feet and legs in Russian is the same, so I think Eteri meant feet and the translation didn't clarify that properly. Not that it makes a big difference...
Somebody really pushing levito and its just hurting this sport so badly
It’s hurting her reputation even though she’s just a competitor and the politics are out of her control
@@selenity08 agree
Yup. They’re trying to market her for the next Olymipcs. Unfortunate, Nina should’ve won.
She's very talented, but she's not the "Second Coming" who'll get Americans watching skating again.
It’s annoying as hell. And would someone take scissors to her awful LP costume to lighten it up? It’s so heavy! Stop dressing her like a Sister Bride.
Beyer has never looked better.
Ilia Malanin looks like an amateur in comparison to Yuma Kagiyama
Steven Gogolev: potential for a team olympic medal. Canada needs a male, and if they get a moderately consistent one, with their pairs, ice dance and schizas can legit challenge for gold.
The moment of the week for me was yesterday, ladies, when the chat asked me how many knee slides there were
I disagree with you Dave as Ilia's skating skills are inferior to Adam's. Is it all about programmes? I do not think so! Even if it was only about programmes, Ilia's programme is more boring. As for cultural appropriation, why Americans are obsessed with it? We do not get this in Europe. So, a "white person" cannot skate or dance to an African-themed melody? Why on earth anyone would dislike Lucas' programme just because of its cultural context. Lion King is not part of African Heritage anyways!
Americans have bad conscience because they stole the land of native Americans and killed them, and they also used blacks as slaves in their own country. We don't have this in Europe.
If you can even call Ilia skating to Succession soundtrack in the background a “program”. SLB is obviously so uninspired by him lol
You two were always so critical of Nathan and now Adam, while heaping undeserved praise on Ilia (amazing skating skills, underscored ?!)… clearly racist undertones. Well now you have your White Savior of US men’s skating! Ridiculous if you believe his agent Ari can get enough votes from ISU countries to change the BV of 4A, he can’t even get his client any major sponsors
I've been feeling really uncomfortable with the way people talk about Asian diasporas. The harshness with the way people discuss Asian-American skaters (Nathan, Vincent, Karen, Alysa) is much more than dislike of their skating and when you throw in the constant microagressions people spew (hopefully due to ignorance than just straight up racism), it's disappointing. It was harder to notice when people would compare them to Jason because he's an incredible skater, but when they continue to act the same with Ilia...
“White Savior” is racist.
Timestamps:
54:36 Yuma
56:44 Adam
With both your hair game and sweater game you two look like secondary leads on the Fellow Travelers tv show.
Adam was so exciting to watch! Huge jumps sand I love his choreo. But that's just a matter of taste. I think performance and skating skills matter much more. Ilia should not and cannot win without the 4A. He's improved but still has a long way to go in terms of performance (outside of 4A and acrobatics that get everybody excited) and skating skills. also - bad posture.
I just hope Adam doesn’t peak too soon like last year b
Over-trained. The best career move South Korean ladies can do is get the hell out of SK for training. Across the board they look gassed, in pain, and wobbly. It is a rough culture with cram schools, 19-year old kpop stars fainting on stage and elite athletes done at minute two.
I actually really like the Italians this year. I'm not bored at all by their free dance. But maybe because I love the music. I also really liked Danny and Ellie's short - it made me feel excited to see what they bring and I was really disappointed when I saw that they'd withdrawn.
I do see what you mean about Adam's choreography being insincere though - I feel that too. I also feel like his choreography was mostly when he was taking pauses and not integrated into the skating itself. Is it weird that my favorite programs from him are still the Olympic year ones? My moment of the week was also Yuma. My instant thought was "he's better than Shoma".
I don’t know, i agree i am bored with this much benoit, but ilia’s program feels formulaic too, a nathan chen program by Raf. I would think you also have this in mind hearing you suggest another quad. And i’m sorry i see no flamenco in the short, just poses no feet moving
Kirk H. would benefit so much from a season at the Cricket Club with Tracey (or a tutorial with Jason if he is not hanging out there). Quick....before it is too late!
Kurakova is taking Bradie's spot at Cup of China. I have a question: why didn't she already have two assignments?
So happy to watch this!
Thanks guys. I wonder if Isabeau's costumes are so voluminous because we are trying to conceal a frame that is overly thin. I'm not saying that's the case. I don't know that. I'm just wondering.
I doubt it when Kimmy Repond and the Kim sisters from Korea (juniors) aren't hiding their obvious issues with EDs under heavy costumes.🤷♂
Nah I think she just likes that frilly look. Too ostrichy for me though tbh
@@kathhqq7and skaters with curvier frames would look frumpy in those costumes. She can get away with it so she should do it.
@@marycoyne1889I never said it looked bad on her 😂 I just don’t like how puffy the dress is
Her costumes swallow her up. It’s hard to see any good lines with all that fabric and feathers.
Not sure why you think Canada has not embraced Deanna (and Max!)? Is it Skate Canada you are referring to? Most Canadian skating fans I know LOVE Deanna AND Max!! ❤
love the netflix idea. you should pitch it.
We can all agree that Adam's choreo screams the Benoit method, but he actually makes it look artistic because of his ability to emote and carry the music. We saw that ability in last 2 seasons where he had very expressive and different kind of programs. Plus not to mention his ice coverage, jump technique (he actually points his knees and bends them!!) and flow. Deserved win for sure. Ilia on the other hand... the kiddo can surely jump but the rest is not there. The posture, skating skills and emotion is all nowhere to be seen so his component score just does not make sense to me. Tech score for sure is adequate. Ilia's feet were also the opposite of pointed, literally 90 degree angle. I'm sorry but that and the lack of edge makes him look so so unfinished and unpolished even though the boy can surely out-jump 95% of the competition in the field. I do wish that Dave you would reconsider your analysis.
Very pleased to see Nina Pinzarrone's star to be on the rising! Such a beautiful skater with long lines and emotion. Isabeau got what she needed with an okay performance, coach was ruthless tho in the kiss&cry. Isabeau needs more kick to her programmes though, if she wants to beat Kaori and Loena. Kimmy Repond's crumbling made me sad, maybe she's too focused on immediate success and now that she's got a lot of media attention and sponsorships. Should not pressure herself too much, still so young and developing.
Gubanova's meltdown and fall from the podium made me smile a little, because she quite literally fucked around and found out that karma is real. Isn't a real Georgian, stole her best friend's boyfriend and cannot duck walk and vogue like Loena.. choices!
"opposite of pointed, literally 90 degree angle"
I wish Ilia would stop wearing boot covers because it emphasizes this flaw so much more. I don't know if it's because they're hoping and betting Ilia will help improve the state of US figure skating and fan interest in the US, but they baby him way more than others
Adam deserved to win, but his programs are less impressive than last season's. And I really don't like some top skaters doing an acrobatic breakdance StSq at the very end of their boring non-creative jump programs as if to say "You see? I can dance! My program is so creative!" 😮💨
I feel the same. It's almost jarring to see how much they come alive at the step sequence after lackluster choreography and energy leading up to it. That being said I do like both Ilia and Adam.
I miss Nathan Chen!
Me too. I’m hoping he returns after he finishes school in time to qualify for another Olympics! ⛸
@@TwinnerA I hope he has enough physical and mental energy in the tank. It is all about how he feels.
@skatinglesson how much of a PCS is based on the judges taste of music. For example: In gymnastics someone may not like the jazz style of Simone, but (lets just say)if it technically fits artistic criteria, they would not give artistic deductions. In skating, if you don't like the music or theme of someones program but they are performing it well, meeting the PCS criteria, but you just don't like the actual program, how much does that affect the PCS score.
What is the problem with simply getting Kirk Haugeto the help he needs, right now!? I don't understand. Can't his coaches and parents see this? Why are they waiting? Now is the time for Kirk to relearn basic fundamentals. Send him to Raf's training camp, or at least to a proven technician for help. His current coaches don't need to be completely out of the picture. But they should be, if they don't get on the ball with getting Kirk the help he needs now! US figure skating should know better how to assist in a non-aggressive, non-prying way. They have certainly tried to interfere with talented skaters in the wrong way historically. What a sport. 🤦
I love what Montreal was able to do at the 2022 Olympics with their coaching but I feel like I'm not seeing any of their teams progressing skill-wise except the speed of the Browns- that seems to have increased from last year. It gives me the impression that that aren't able to fully coach as many teams as they have taken on. I'm a huge supporter of their skating school but if I look at the skaters from the teams that have a strong skater and a "weaker" skater paired together, the weaker skaters don't look any stronger/better than they did last year. I also don't see any of the top level teams overall looking visibly better than last year.
Shout out to the French dance teams at this event though (LaGouge/Caffa and Lauriault/le Gac)! I thought they were extremely creative and their love of skating and performing really came through.
CANNOT WAIT FOR BOOK CLUB!🎉
Ilia had to replace one of his skate blades just before the competition. That was what was literally tripping him up. Also, Memola had to replace his boots very recently, too.
Soooo, it is just a blade, not a new boot.... just prooves his ss are poor.
I think the parallels between Adam and Kevin's skating are pretty hilarious. The same frantic, overwrought, utterly entertaining style and athleticism. Is it emotional or kind of goofy? Kevin's goofy feels like camp, so I maybe am a bit more partial to it lol, but anyway both are quite good. I think Ilia as a performer is actually very similar to them, only not as mature and with weaker, stiffer skating. Adam deserved his win here and to break the 300s. Crazy to see Olympic level skates so soon in the season. For the women, my podium would have been Isabeau, Rion, and Wakaba. Can't speak to her skating live, but on video Isabeau is elegant and has this charisma that's compelling. Great transitions and spins. Shout out to Rion for the quad toe at 20 without doping. Wakaba was lovely too, and her skating skills were the best in the event. Not sold on her Coldplay program or step sequence though.
Two individuals with many, many frustrations. This would be the only reason for the way they talk about the extraordinary achievements of others skaters except Malinin, who is of course American. Never see them again. Depressing
@@Adriana-rz6ki It's a subjective sport, and Dave's opinions are tricky to pin down for sure. But there is nothing malicious about being underwhelmed by Benoit's choreo or not loving a successful skater. Still wild to me how much Dave criticizes Yuzuru lol, but eh he's brave like that 😂
@@zackwilson8701 It's fine to not like Benoit's choreography but to say that he looked like a "tool", because of the way he dressed in the K&C ? C'mon, that was just not a nice thing to say out loud.
@@AT-jm4dl I enjoy the loose, casual feel of Jonathan and Dave's conversations, that it feels uncensored and genuine. There are a lot of channels that have a more professional, neutral stance, so it's nice to listen to the skating lesson and just hear other skating fans' opinions. I don't necessarily agree with every catty comment Jonathan and Dave make, but I enjoy this space overall. You make a fair point that the comment was unnecessary, but I don't think it's that deep tbh. Lots of people don't find The Skating Lesson their cup of tea and opt not to listen or engage for that reason. You do you, boo.
Madison looks fantastic, pregnant or not ❤️🕊️❤️
She is, isn't she??? I thought I was seeing sth that wasn't...
That’s great to hear. She always looks classy.
I didn't know she was pregnant 😮❤!
Always have a exit plan. Greats have a exit plan.
Isabeau is a beautiful skater but the custom reminds me of big bear in black and white
Dave, why are Adam's jump landings so shaky and have no flowing edge out of them? They are scary, not as much as Isabeau but his landings are in stark contrast to Yuma and his running edge out of everything.
Poor technique. The jumps vault up and straight down. When you watch Yuma or Ilia, who both have great technique, the jumps have a flight path.
@@christinethorp3684 yeah it looks like he is land straight down vertically on the blade. It's on every jump too.
I was saying the same thing. It looks like he stalls just momentarily after landing, until he swings the free leg around and gets going again.
Excited to hear the Ilia/Adam thoughts!
who is kirk/kurt? they r talking about with flair but bad fundamentals?
Kirk Haugeto I assume!
Adam Siao Him Fa’s technical feats CANNOT be ignored, but as Dick Button would say insofar as his PCS “it’s a lot of hand waving and overwrought facial expressions. That’s not “figure skating artistry”. “
You keep up with figure skating 💀💀💀
I've been a fan od Gubanova since her "Take Five" SP in 2018/19. She's great in a more modern style like this, classical - not so much
Dave coming out as an Ilia supporter? Ok go off! 😊
Isabeau looked like she just ran out of juice. It happened to Amber at skate america. I don't know if she is injured.
Omg Dave! Wakabas layback!! 🤣🤣💀💀 I love you! 😊😊
I dare someone to tell me what Adam’s fs is about.
What?
I think it relates to the Charlie Hebdo magazine shooting in Paris. I hear typewriters in the beginning and he pantomimes a scream and then pulling on his shirt over his heart. That could mean being shot or heartbreak. I think I hear gunshots at one point as well.
Hand waving and overwrought facial expressions.
I heard it was about his journey to self-acceptance/self-love. But I totally don't get that story from the way he skated it. LOL
Send Kirk to Ryan Jahnke for stroking! I watched him work with Jason Brown many years ago, fun to watch.
Who is Kirk?
Illia needs to work on his basic skating skills to improve transitions and artistry to compare to the best. It would also be great to see more distance in the jumps.