Never forget Frieren's ultimate lesson. Flamme spent her entire life training Frieren to suppress her mana so she could fool and defeat the demon king. Frieren trained for hundreds of years after that. When she finally confronted the demon king, he saw through that deception. It was the "useless" spell that Flamme taught Frieren on a whim at the end of her life, that Frieren carried into the future, and showed to a boy who was lost and afraid in a dark forest that inspired Himmel to become a hero and seek Frieren out. The great evil was defeated by a field of flowers.
Yup hundreds of years spent to fool the Demon King got wasted cause he saw through it all, Spoilers The Demon King knew he would lose and already prepping for her arrival, the words of Schlatt himself said, I'm sorry Frieren but you cannot see my battle with the Hero of the south
"when I step out of the door, I should be looking for what I could find, not dreading terrible things that could happen" this line hit me into my core somehow
I was living in a messy house with my mom and 20 cats when last December, I ordered some pico de gallo for the burritos I was making at my mom's request, for dinner. The Walmart spark delivery driver saw the other 2 deliveries for that day hadn't been picked up and ordered a wellness check, the police came and saw the mess and charged me with felony elder abuse. My mom tried to tell them she was well taken care of and she didn't want me taken away, and when the police didn't listen she threatened to kill herself to get their attention, and probably out of frustration. It's what she would do if I didn't listen to her and she got extremely upset. They hauled her off the the hospital for evaluation and determined she was never really suicidal, and recommended she be transferred to a long-term care facility. I was supposed to be released on the 23rd of December after video court but instead the court (which was scheduled to go on vacation on the 24th) decided to see no one on the 23rd. I spent the entire court Christmas-New Year vacation break in jail. Since I wasn't around, my sister-in-law got to make the decision on where to put my mom and she put her some place that treated her like she was on hospice. They didn't want my mom getting out of bed because they said "if she fell it would be a liability for them". Instead they doped her up on Ativan, a surgical sedative, up to 6 times a day, often grinding the pills up and putting them in her food. She was in a state where she couldn't open her eyes but she could respond to questions and she certainly couldn't eat or drink. I tried to get her out of there, but everything I tried people would treat me like a monster on account of the charges, or tell me I didn't have power of attourney. I called the paramedics when the place told me she was dying and they concluded she was dying of dehydration and started her on an IV. They took her to Redlands Community Hospital (her normal place was Kaiser) and the hospice told them my sister-in-law had power of attorney. The hospital refused to let me see her. Sister-in-law demanded they take her back to the hospice and I was forbidden from visiting her for the last 3 days before she ultimately died from dehydration. When it came time to sign my mom's body over the mortuary it turned out my sister-in-law never had power of attorney, and I had to come down and release the body. I've been homeless now for 6 months. My public defender was pretty bad, he didn't want to fight at all, or offer any counter argument to the DA in negotiations. All he wanted to do was capitulate and get me to sign a deal. They told me I'd be able to live my life if I just signed the plea to a misdemeanor. He kept telling me that we wouldn't win, that people would see the mess and wouldn't listen to me. I asked for more time to consider the deal, and ask for a second opinion from another lawyer since my mom had just died 3 days before and I was in no state to make such decisions, the judge denied my request bemoaning "the case that never ends" and telling me it was "instant dispo", no probation, and I'd be an idiot not to take it. My defender swore at me, said I wasted their whole day getting them to go back and forth like a bunch of f**king a**holes, getting the deal just how I wanted it and now I wasn't signing it. I tried to change the charges I was pleaing to but the DA wouldn't budge, so I signed the deal since my mom was gone anyhow. BIG MISTAKE, nobody is hiring me and I'm now branded a violent offender. I have nothing. I have nothing and I'm scared all the time of being arrested for sleeping in my car. I miss my mom, I miss the cats they put down, I miss home. I am happy for you all that you get to not worry about what might happen next, but I want you to understand that that is a luxury, and you're fortunate to have it. I would like to hope some day, I can have that again, but for now I live in a constant downward slide. I had to give all my savings to the cremation, I really just need a job to start turning things around, but even the gig apps turn me down based on my record. I loved Frieren though, I started it before this all happened. It was a nice respite from my woes while it was running. Quiet, contemplative, and kind-hearted. I suppose yes, it was a nice escape. But I never cared much for the grimdark. I always kind of felt like, people who want to see tragedies in their media must live pretty good lives, if they need to feel misfortune so badly.
I would also list Goblin Slayer here. It has very satisfying party-based adventuring and a neat setting. It leans more to the darker side of the spectrum and has an undeserved bad-rep because of it; but it also has things like the cheese conversation and the Slayer's party making him do a challenge run on a dungeon crawl to balance out the edginess.
I’d recommend a show called Delicious in Dungeon (aka Dungeon Meshi) I think it fits the idea of a fun adventure about cooking and friendship despite its darker setting
@@chuckles9702 They are definitely at the lowest point of the show. (Not sure because I haven’t read the manga) but with a few episodes left I don’t think they’ll completely get rid of their light hearted moments around the cooking. It’s kinda the point of the series
@@_Xenograde sweet summer child, a clip on YT ruined for me and yeah; the tone shift is real. It goes from a Frieren-vibe to Episode One of Goblin Slayer REAL quick.
@@chuckles9702 The manga for Dungeon Meshi is done and I have read the whole thing, it never gets to Goblin Slayer levels. Nobody dies in screaming terror as they are taken apart by goblins. Let alone what the goblins do with female captives. People die in Dungeon Meshi, but death is outlawed in the dungeon. Death is still dangerous because if the body gets too badly damage, more effort is required to resurrect you, but it doesn't have to be permanent. This aspect is a driving force for the first act and what starts the second act. Dungeon Meshi has its darker and serious moments but, that is relative to the lighter and comedic tone it usually has. It also doesn't stay in these moments. The next episode goes back to its usual tone. The lighter tone it normally has, similar to Frieren, makes the stakes of the more serious moments feel greater. All without having to go grimdark.
Shortly before discovering Frieren, I realized that I want to make a small video game that encompasses the hope that romantic fantasy brings and that my game should as inspire and empower the player to do good things in real life by showing that beauty can save the world. I felt that modern fantasy media was greatly lacking in doing that for its consumers, and I wondered if there was a huge demand for romantic or “GOOD” fantasy as you put it. I wasn’t sure if there was a large-scale demand, but I knew I needed more of that in my life. So, I had faith that my hypothesis was right and that I could create a successful game if I based it on the principles of romantic fantasy. When I watched Frieren and saw how popular it was, I realized I was right. Not only did I long for GOOD romantic fantasy, but millions seem to have felt something like Frieren was missing and maybe didn’t realize it until they watched it. I’m still at the beginning of making my video game, but with plenty of inspiration to draw from as well as your video essay to compare my notes with yours (so to speak), I think I will find success-not just financial, but in making the lives of my video game’s players just a bit more hopeful, meaningful, and fun. Thank you for the wonderful video!
I'm also willing to create a videogame, but first I'm writing a novel as a prequel of that game to introduce people to it's world, and I had the same objective, rescur the hope and joy of fantasy, I'm a fan of From Software games (I'm currently playing Elden Ring DLC), and more of Dark Fantasy, but it's true that gendet is over saturated, I wanted to rescue the idea of a better tomorrow and some good adventures with your party If you really make that game, I hope you the best!
While Frieren's take-down of Aura was amazing, then one scene I keep rewatching is Stark's and Fern's dance at the soiree. There was something just so magical about it.
O lot of people got the writing of A Song of Ice and Fire wrong in my opinion. While it seems Martin kill characters for killing characters sake and some people starting writing like that, in Martin writing whenever an important character died it would made sense, it was the consequences of their own actions, the death mattered a lot for the story and it was very telegraphed. There is also a lot of hope in the story, but we will probably never know if it would pay of as it will likely never be finished.
Indeed. A very subtle point that GRRM made that many people missed is the true value of honor. Yes we all know how Ned Stark's honor got him killed, and that Tywin's pragmatism reigns supreme in defeating your enemies. But the moment both patriarchs were dead, that's where honor showed its value. Tywin, whose rule was made with fear began to crumble instantly, with enemies and false friends on all sides aiming to overthrow the Lannisters. Ned Stark on the other hand, had so many multiple parties longing for the old days when he ruled that for multiple books after his death, there are multiple conspiracies aiming to overthrow his enemies and return a Stark to power. That is loyalty that Tywin can only dream of.
there is a difference, nobody gets ASOIaF wrong, everytime they get it wrong is when they are talking about the show GoT. or viewing it through the lense of the netflix adaptation the books are incredible, but GoT adaptation can k^ss my @$$. it doesnt have spirit of the story at all. not to mention all minor alterations absoljtely fks the story and ruismns characters and straight up cut content. it lacks elegance and mysticism of grim dark vibes of the books but feels just bleak and bland House of the dragon is awesome tho. Westeros actually feels like the westeros from the books, the grim dark fantasy setting feels supernatural with enough mysticism , meanwhile the GoT just feels bleak medieval setting with bits of magic here and there with tons of unnecessary t^ts and g0re.
That is one of the most significant differences between the books and the show. Martin is pretty ruthless at letting characters die when they mess up too bad. Hell, some characters seem to just wander off and die with no drama or fanfare simply because they no longer serve a purpose to the story. It's not about the shock of a character suddenly dying. It's about creating tension because mistakes have consequences. In the show every major character death was treated as a big twist, while some fan favourite characters were given thick plot armour to artificially keep them around for way too long. Especially in the later seasons it made many deaths feel arbitrary and cheap. Dumb and Dumber got so caught up in trying to surprize the audience that they destroyed most of the tension those deaths were meant to maintain. In the books it also helps that many central characters at one point or another end up quite distant from any central plot threads, which means they could die at any moment without derailing the story at large. It's the classic thing where you can get more tension from lower stakes. Like how Tyrion ends up going on an extremely humbling solo adventure deprived of everything but his wit, far removed from court politics. In the show that entire arc got cut, which meant Tyrion didn't get to be a true Nobody for any length of time. Someone the plot wouldn't miss. So in the books, when Brienne's uncompromising sense of duty forces her into a fight against terrible odds in the middle of nowhere in her hopeless quest for Katelyn's children, it's nerve wracking because you can sense her time is almost up. You know that even if she survives, there will be terrible consequences. In the show, not so much.
I'm surprised to see Sword in the Stone - one of my childhood favorites, still is to this day. Nothing wrong with dark or grim, just makes the bright stuff shine all the brighter. Nothing wrong with grand and epic battles either, it's all part of the dream. Nicely narrated, and I liked how you closed the presentation.
This video was... very unexpectedly moving. The emphasis on romantic fiction, the little deeds of ordinary folk keeping evil at bay and having something to look forward to at the end of the day really resonate in these dark times. You've given me courage to get up and fight another day. Thank you.
A spot on video. Frieren has what I have been looking for in a fantasy story, adventure anime and even what an RPG game would look like as an animated series. It's about the characters and the little things that they discover or rediscover along the journey. The people in Frieren's world are friendly but not in a toddler-friendly cartoon kind of way. They show their kindness even when they live in a harsh world where monsters roam the countrysides, wars in the northern and south and mages getting killed in exams. None of that overbearing bleakness in current crop of fantasy and isekai shows with over-powered, cheat-skilled cringe lords on a revenge or harem building quests. The people in Frieren are also wise like Graf Granat protecting his city and Denken using his wisdom and leadership to get everyone to cooperate with one another. Perhaps they're in manga but I like that the anime has no useless and selfish fat nobles or conniving, backstabbing traitors. Frieren reminded me of when The Witcher 3 game first came out. I spent much of 200 hours of gameplay just exploring the open world and completing side quests. When I finally decided that I couldn't find anymore side quests I simply quit the game without even bothering to finish the main stroyline. I only begrudgingly finished the main missions 2 years later when I wanted to try out the DLCs.
As a Lord of the Rings fan, watching Frieren was like pure bliss. It had the feels, the action, the fantasy in it's essence. Albeit it had some classic anime tropes, I love it.
There are two problems with dark fantasy. First, with expection of Game of Thrones, dark is commercial failure (and trap to new authors). All dark / low / grimdark books sold in less number, than Hobbit, Narnia or Discworld alone. Second: dark fantasy is only aspect of wider problem, which can be named "maniheistic fantasy". Fantasy, when one side is always but always good, and second is always but always evil. In normal fantasy, like Frieren, LOTR or Warcraft everyone have bad and good sides. Quoting one of Tolkien latters: "Pride between elves, greed between dwarves, glutony and lazines between hobbit, madness betwen humans and beatryal even among wizards". In maniheistic fantasy we have aways lawfull stupid heroses and always chaotic evil minions of darkness. Dark fantasy is only failed attempt to escape from maniheism.
there are few ways to make dark fantasy work, but the most reliable one is to let your characters be also bad, so many japanese light novels do this great : overlord, youjo senki, wortenia. When your protagonist is other peoples villain it lets you find fresh stories to tell in a mostly saturated genre.
@@korgalis Totally agree. Also grim dark fantasy could be done right in the way Joe Abercrombie writes. His settings are super dark(absolute hopelessness) and his characters are more black than grey, but you support them nonetheless. And his humour is top tier too.
Grimdark has it's place as a genre long before Fire and Ice; just people didn't look for it because everyone thought fantasy was either DnD or LotR. People who read Black Company know what I'm talking about (the novel by Glen Cook, not the similarly named manga).
@@chuckles9702 it was a little different. People thinks fantasy is Elmore-style D&D or LotR because they are (or maybe "was") far more popular, than grimdark. In fact D&D in his early history was more dark, than heroic, because Gygax don't liked Tolkien (but liked Howard and Lovecraft), and had dark settings, like Raveloft, Darksun and Planescape BUT Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Greyhawk outsales them many (3 to 10) times. It was similiar with Black Company or (in recent times) Abercombie, who sold only fraction of what heroic fantasy used to sold (Glen Cook sold 1 million books, Abercombie if I remember: 5 millions, but R. A. Salvatore sold 30 millions of Drizzt novels... Only grimdark trully big seller was Song of Ice and Fire). I think the greater problem, than competition grimdark / heroic was swarm of authors like Robert Redick or Jonathan Wylie, who thought they can repeat sucess of Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind or David Eddings simply re-writting Shannara, Shword of Truth or The Belgeriad.
What you speak of is called deconstruction: The process of taking a work or genre apart, examining how it works and using what you learn to create a new version, usually with the goal of making it more realistic or logically consistent. Ideally, this is supposed to be an improvement. It doesn't necessarily mean making the work darker and more cynical, but that's unfortunately a typical reaction (often overreaction) to idealistic works that become perceived as childish or immature. Hence why superhero comics went through a notable "dark age" around the 90s, and we saw similar trends in video games, etc. It's symptomatic of a sort of fear that ones art of choice isn't taken seriously, and while it's not entirely a bad thing it can lead to creators missing the original point of the work altogether. Compare the term "edgy", which is supposed to refer to experimental, avantgarde works that strive to break new ground (as in "cutting edge"), but has instead become slang for a sort of shallow, immature fascination with superficial grimdark aesthetics.
Agreed. There is a place for dark and grim dark fantasy, but it's only a small place in a very large ocean of stories. It shouldn't take up every inch of it. Variety is a beautiful thing and finally having a show that highlights the wonder of the small important moments in life and time. Frieren has become one of my favorites with how it portrays the passage of time and making memories now so we don't have regrets.
More than good fantasy, it's good writing. The fantasy itself in Frieren is just another version of stuff we've already seen everywhere. The writing and direction of the story is what sets it apart.
I couldn’t agree more, and I say this as a fan of dark and grimdark fantasy like Berserk and Warhammer. The success of Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan has oversaturated fantasy with a reliance on bleakness and shock value in the name of so-called gritty realism. They all have this nihilistic tone that spreads the mantra of how the struggle/suffering is all pointless, humans are by nature selfish assholes, heroism is for suckers, and we can never change. As far as I can tell, this gets old fast and just leaves you feeling empty and wondering what the hell you wasted all your time for (ie. Game of Thrones season 8). But I would argue that the best dark fantasy makes hope and heroism stand out all the more. If goodness is a rarity in your setting, its value increases. Guts from Berserk inspires people to struggle against impossible odds. The Salamanders from WH40K are fan-favorites BECAUSE they are heroic in an otherwise evil, doomed universe. People who turn their noses up at optimism because it’s “unrealistic” are blinded by cynicism and ultimately stories that have that message won’t have a lasting impact. Whereas LOTR will last forever. In the words of ERBH “News flash the genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee”
Despite everything man will strive for good. Evil is not our true nature. That's why your blood boils everytime you see the hero get treated like shit defeated countless times and in the end die to achieve a shitty "bittersweet" ending. There's no extra point in doing that unless you want to psychologically traumtise the same viewers who have wanted a satisfying conclusion. The ending of AoT sucks, what happens to Guts and his loving wife during the eclipse is horrible. This is just writers shoving trauma on our minds.
@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 AoT was meant to mirror the history of mankind in real life, which is a cycle of war and hatred. Giving AoT a happy ending would be even more problematic, since it would require Eren to complete his rumbling and proves that an utopia is achievable through an act of genocide where both the innocent and the guilty are trampled upon for the sake of peace. Perhaps its just me, but AoT did validate my religious belief that this world isn't our final destination due to it being too corrupted by evil, and that a better afterlife will await those who remain righteous in an unrighteous world.
@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 I completely disagree. Some stories require happy, satisfying endings, while others require to be left unsatisfying and dark. It depends on the story and its themes and if executed properly, a dark ending can be just as effective as a happy one.
This is what I love about fantasy, an epic hike in magical landscapes. Maybe magic could be used as a seasoning, as long as it makes the mind wonder and travel a land coming from one's beautiful dreams I'm trying to create fantasy locations based on real places I've seen or traveled to, as well as concepts I've imagined. I've not done anything so far outside of messy sketches and thinking about them
Of all the Frieren videos i have seen this might be the best one so far. You capture the nature of the show perfectly and put into words what i could never describe to others about the anime when i try recommend it.
When Frieren came out with the first 4 episodes I knew it was going to be one of my favorites. It gave me the same energy as LOTR and it made me so happy. I had been growing tired of the “killing characters because it’s realistic” in so many fantasy stuff that I felt LOTR was going to be the last true medieval fantasy to be enjoyable and I’m so glad there are still stories out there to give this kind of entertainment that I had grown up on
I feel like that’s the problem with most media right now. Especially when most of us have experienced a pandemic and the overall feeling of lost, there need to be some hope or inspiration in our media The reason why some so simple like smiling friends is so good
I find myself coming back and watching your video a second time. It just sums up everything I subconciously thought about it. "Sousou no Frieren" and the "Apothecary Diaries" were my absolute favourites that carried me through winter...
I do agree that Frieren has been a been a nice change of pace, and even subverted our expectations of a more serious adventure by making the epic battle with the Demon King, being something that already happens before the main story takes place. However I disagree that this is what, "Fantasy is supposed to be." I also think the genre of Dark Fantasy series like Game of Thrones became popular because at the time, they also subverted the previous expectations of the time. For example in Attack on Titan when Eren and his friends are shown spending an entire arc training together, and a theme song plays with everyone gathering together to fight in unison, we expect a classic anime scene where the power of friendship conquer all, and therefore are left dumbstruck when nearly all of them are almost immediately killed. Despite this dark subversion, there are still grounded and peaceful moments in between with the theme of the series itself being, "The World is cruel, but also beautiful." Colorful images, beautiful landscapes, and simple moments of levity where characters jest, and develop between the moment of calamity reminding us that the world is more than just a cruel place. I also agree that the more grim elements of Dark Fantasy have become so oversaturated that it no longer breaks the mold, but instead fills it. In that way, a calm story like Frieren has the similar ability to change the direction of these stories. I hope that stories like Frieren and even the Adventures of Superman can help influence and reintroduce romanticism into the genre, but not because I think Dark Fantasy is inherently lesser, but because having diversity in our stories expands our culture and zeitgeist in a pleasant manner.
I also disagree of the notion of one type of fantasy. Because the word is FANTASY, it can be anything. And in my opinion Frieren is kinda boring, I mean Elves are my least favorite fantasy race and I don't care for traditional fantasy but at the same time I respect people that do.
People like their light and dark fantasies for plenty of reasons. I'm a fan of both, but I've always felt that there needs to be a little light in the dark, and a little dark in the light. Yin and Yang, right? A lot of my most favorite moments in dark fantasy like Game of Thrones are those moments of grace, where characters are at least able to express that even if they are doomed to die in a God-forsaken Universe, they can at least hold to the value they place in their own lives, or the lives of one another. And inversely, a lot of my favorite moments in light fantasy are where characters are forced to confront their or their world's shadow.
What makes a dark fantasy good is if there is still hope... still light at the end of the tunnel. The darkness of the world can make the light seem that much brighter. If the story can't do that its not going to be good
there in lies the trap some authors fail, when does the hope shine. there's a limit to how much audiences can endure watching their favorite characters suffer or be punished, in their quest the main cast are either rarely ahead, they're mostly far out paced or overwhelmed by just how many small and or major wins the author(s) have given to the dark or chaotic factions, that in the end even a pyrrhic victory doesn't seem worth it.
@El_Gungas depends on the person and their story. As for the world as a whole the light is gone when people give up but there are plenty of people who are fighting against the problem the chose. As for afterlife that's you're own problem to think about.
There is no "return". "Frieren" is not a Western product so nothing has changed for us. Disney is also trying to take over the anime industry. So there is no “return”, no, everything will get much, much worse.
I honestly wish they were more dark, rather than less. What I do agree with though is that a little more emphasis on heroic virtue would do us a lot of good
Thanks. You are very correct. You have made me think about my DnD campaign, and how things have been going lately. Maybe... Maybe I'll add some mundane things. Common things. Things that make one smile even if its all in our heads.
Stories are vessels to carry moments of emotional payoff; they must give a sense of emotional release or otherwise progress, and to do that, they must rely on inspiration or reflection-- they must change something about the reader/audience. The "protagonist" doesn't always have to "win", but the story cannot simply go through the motions of progress without emotional resolution. Dark fantasy (as we know it today) often hinges on a world, settings, characters, or otherwise that won't ultimately change for the better by the end of it all, so the lesson and emotional resolution.. is that none of it mattered to begin with. The world and it's characters will not grow or change; and so neither does the mind of the audience. That's why dark fantasy falls apart-- while it's obsessed with a more "realistic" depiction of fantasy, it's simply not realistic for everyone to be so evil, so self-absorbed, that literally no one is trying to simply enjoy their lives. It's just an author's statement about their own inner turmoil and subsequent pessimistic outlook on life; and that will undeniably resonate with many.. but the hurt that causes the pessimism will pass, and ultimately give way to different feelings as time progresses. Stories, much like life, are not about experiencing the same emotion or event forever, but accepting that there are many unique experiences, "good" and "bad". Good fantasy is like a river: it goes everywhere, experiences everything, is never bogged down for long, and is always refreshing, even if you know where it'll all end up in the end. Edit: Beautiful video and message! Subscribed!
Yeah even some stuff like Trigun or Dollhouse or Final Fantasy X or ATLA. Felt like even though the world could be so harsh and the characters could suffer and go through tragedy, it felt like ultimately it was worth it in that they changed the world and it left you with a bit of upliftingness. It meant something for our protagonist to change instead of being just tragic or random stories. Stories about the character overcoming a lot can mean a lot.
Tolkien probably would've approved of Frieren. He would have have praised Yamada. It took me a while to lay my finger on a show like Frieren but thats just it "it gets it". All of fantasy stems from the complied inspiration from aincent biblical stories and old folktales having come together in Tolkiens world more or less defining the genre.
Lol no. He himself said that there is only one way to write a fantasy and that is his own way. He discredited other works like Narnia or even Dune becajse of his personal bias. Plus he hated cartoons and comics because they force us to have a certain image in iur heads. Highly unlikely that he would have had "approved" Frieren as good as it is.
Thank you. You echo my main problem with Warhammer and gave it context 👍😄 That's why Frieren reminds me more of the stories of my youth - sword and sorcery, Tolkien's original...
The spell that defeated the demon king wasn't Zoltraak, or any of the others Frieren knows. It was a spell that creates a field of flowers. A small thing that reassured a young boy lost in the woods while looking for herbs.
The spectrum you're trying to address isn't about realism, but rather attempts at edginess. What I think people enjoy from realism is believability (consistency with actual behavior of both humans and physics, and for magic rules to be consistent relative to these). This is welcome in whatever the content is: slice of life or heroes' journey type of narratives.
I do agree. I can enjoy dark and grimdark stories, but there's just been so many and it becomes kind of like a raincloud blotting out the sky. The fun of a romantic adventure is why I've enjoyed Frieren and konosuba so much, and why I had a bit of a hard time making it through the 2nd season of reincarnated as a slime. It was such a tone shift from the first season that it lost a bit of its magic to me.
This happened to Magical Girl shows in general too, thanks to the popularity of Madoka Magica. They all went dark & deconstructionist, and while a bit of that occasionally is fun, it gets really really tiring when that's *all* there is. You have to build something eventually. Fairy Tales are eternal for a reason, and you can tell them in any genre. Heck, even Star Wars is a fairy tale. There's too much post-modernism in society today.
The field of flowers quest was, arguably, in many ways, the most meaningful for the plot in Frieren: It was when she was stubbornly looking for something truly meaningful for her by virtue of the connection to Himmel the Hero; it also showed how long she's willing to spend in order to achieve her goal; it also was what ultimately, with the help of the herbalist, pushed Fern to be able to open up her feelings, concerns and thoughts to Frieren regarding how long time they use looking for goals that ultimately are not as meaningful in the grand scheme of things, but by using so many much time in them, it can weigh down on humans who have a much shorter life span than Frieren and put forward the need to respect the time of the people who is with her and not only to focus on the single most task at hand, but also prioritize the time of others and by doing so, express and show her appreciation towards those around her. It was a meaningful event in many ways, in spite of being only about finding one flower, or in this case, the pay off was a full field of them
No amount of memes has convinced me to watch this series, but you got me. Grabbed me by the heart. I’m a very picky consumer of entertainment, but this sounds just about right.
For a while now I've been thinking about the "anyone could die at any moment, and should" mission statement as taking toys out of the toybox just to break them. This video didn't bring up the term noblebright in opposition to grimdark, but there's an old blog post that pops up if you look it up that covers a similar sentiment with lots of overlap.
10/10 video. You did understand and explain very well your argument. And i think ita absolutely true, and it's the true core of an awesome fantasy like Frieren is. You said well, Sauron was not defeated by the great armies but by two small hobbits, and the demon king was ultimately destroyed by a boy who dreamed to be a hero, and was lost in a forest and got saved by an elf who made a field of flowers appear, and his party, as frieren says, if only one of them wouldn't have been there, they would have lost, and its not luck as Serie says, but the sweet fruits of many little good actions.
I will push back a little bit on what you said about dark fantasy. You said there's nothing interesting about stories that lack (or even mock) hope or joy. Berserk absolutely has hope and joy as key features of character development, that's why it hits so hard for so many people, that's why it resonates decades after its first big hiatus, that's why people kept tuning back in each time there was a new chapter released. I think there should be a difference between dark fantasy, where there can be hope and joy, and cruel fantasy, where there is no hope or joy at all. I remember how Fairy Tail was loathed because, while it did get dark in its later arcs, it never went dark or serious enough for the western anime fanbase as a whole. Everyone called it corny and cheesy because of the power of friendship theme. But once it ended, and its sequel series started airing, I saw a bunch of people, mostly women and LGBT communities, latch onto FT as a shining example of a story about a found family. Now I see more people defending the series because it makes them happy, rather than people hating it for being too happy like it was back then. Now, if you want my personal and subjective opinion, when your friend's family is being actively starved to death by a genocidal dictatorship and not a single person is doing a damn thing to stop it, that shit changes you, and all the tall about "hope" and "joy" fall on deaf ears. But then again I'm not someone who believes in escapism so my views are very different from most people. There is no hope for my friend's dying family and there is nothing I can do to change that.
Nice point.,, well then again the party of frieren already defeated the big boss,. The dark ages have already been conquered, we're just facing some criminals on dark alley, nothing more, nothing less,. But then Frieren is a story of Some mundane experiences like normal people do have, but in a fantasy setting,.
I was already impressed with the video's start but then I heard Skyrims OST playing faintly in the background that was the thing that made me like and subscribe. 10/10 would recommend. 😀👍
It was a mere 28 episodes. Not even 12 hours, less than a day of thousands we have. Not even 0.002% of the average life span for my species. But it like Fern for Frieren, it can change us.
I love dark fantasy, the feeling of playing From Software games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring and exploring those grim worlds filed with filt and mistery is fantastic. But I also think it was getting over satured, too much dark stuff was being done recently and as consequence not much of it was good. Then I found Frieren manga a few years ago and oh boy what a breath of fresh air it has been. I'm so glad it got such epic anime adaptation and I could experience this wonderful story twice. Also, now that it is making so much success probably we will have a bunch of bright fantasy and probably most of them will suck, but that's ok, it's how cicles work.
If you really think about it. People wanting/enjoying negative anime is more of a sense of "They have it worse than me." A negative way of uplifting one self. It's easier to be happier when someone else is suffering more, than it is to strive for the same level of quality of life from someone who is suffering less. I can't watch AoT, literally because of this potential train of thought. One that can easily send unstable people (such as myself) who've had very rough upbringings, and even struggle today, down a spiraling abyss. Because of this, i prefer to watch stuff like Frieren (or even very well written, but sometimes very sad, Slice of Life anime (i.e. Clannad)). With Frieren, it's an escape from reality. I get to enjoy a world type that i've enjoyed since i was a kid (reading Terry Brooks, and others of the like), as it allows me this fantastic euphoric feeling. Seeing the different levels of art work. The grand narratives and well written characters. This is also exactly why i LOVE Studio Ghibli, and especially Princess Mononoke. I think it also helps that the perspective of this anime is literally from the PoV of it's Name-sake. When, over the coarse of the 28 episodes, you notice time is slowing down for Frieren. Because she's actually Bonding with Fern and Stark. That all these events are reminding her of specific periods of time with someone she obviously loved, but never started realizing it until this period of time. This anime is such a masterpiece for those who want the Euphoria of High Fantasy, but that's also mixed with the very vibrant art of Madhouse, and the completely magnificent (but not as important) Fight scenes with just as equal vibrancy. If i had to rank this with others: 1: Frieren 2: Clannad 3: Mononoke Hime 4: FMA: BH 5: Literally any other SoL (or even very well written Isekai) anime.
One Piece fans: "We have Romance since it dawned! All your points can be seen in One Piece and it's ongoing for decades, over a thousand chapters of hope, romance and dreams.
You definitely nailed it. I’ve always hated overly dark stories. And you’re right, game of thrones is probably to blame lol. Unfortunately most tv writers are not capable of the nuance in the asoiaf books that keep the countless tragedies from feeling pointless. The walking dead is a big one too. There have been so many depressing franchises in the last couple of decades. Like…real life is grim enough. Do I really want to watch fictional people live miserable lives full of despair and fear until they eventually die in agony? Not really!
Interesting Game of Thrones is mentioned. It has given George a reputation of being a nihilist but he also wrote Dunk and Egg and let me tell you, the adventures of Sir Duncan the Tall are a breath of fresh air, full of hope and exploring what being a true knight means.
this happens so often on youtube too. so many video essays talking about the 'darkest, most realistic episode that people missed' is just a sad or a negative episode. I understand that people consider 'depression = realism' because we're ground down to accept it but usually these scenes are just dramatic or melodramatic charactisations, or implied tragedy beyond the scope of the explicit events on screen. projecting emotive and implied tragedy as 'realistic' i think overstates the reactions people have in real life though, and perhaps thats the fanatasy game of thrones viewers want. in real life the implication of ruining your shoes is slavery in sweatshops, the implication of not being able to afford petrol is war in the middle east, the implication of a job loss is mortgage default for masses of people. These things are visible in the public consciousness but not typically emoted on, so i understand people wanting to see that on screen and have the cartharsis of 'understanding' and 'feeling' the true impact of simple events, in a way that the real world doesn't care about. thanks god someone finally made a story that is happy and well adjusted, where the characters can handle loss and change without succumbing to madness or re-rolling their entire characters as a stoic. frieren is even the opposite - learning that stocism and rationalisation of her necesarry imlied tragedies (of outliving everyone) has caused her regret and loss too.
I think Sousou no Frieren is fine, I enjoy it well enough, but I never quite got why everyone seems to love it so much. It doesn't do anything too special or groundbreaking, it's just very earnest and contemplative. I guess fantasy fans are simply sorta starved for that these days?
I would say that the misuse of Dark Fantasy, or simply it's use as a loose back drop is usually the issue. Good Dark Fantasies like Dark Souls, are meant to have fun moments and motivating themes. In spite of sad and scarry atmospheres. But the biggest challenge for good Dark Fantasy is that it's atmosphere is sort of adapted as a "fine art" leading to multiple interpretations. Which is why it has been used is so many ways. The same could be said for normal fantasy as well with so many isekai shows. Frieren definitly has a real fine art element to it, in both visual and narritive ways.
Your video gave me the perspective, that I in contrast to you love both kinds of fantasy. None is better or worse than the other. Some readers like slice of life, others epic fights or emotionaly touching drama. While light fantasy gives me true heroes to look up to I can connect better to broken Heroes who struggle with their fate and the horrendous things they saw or did on their journey. They just scratch different itches for me.
Fantasy is following Aragon. Dark Fantasy is following one of the surviving Rohirum riders, whose comrades died. Grim Dark is following Theodred life, with the story ending with his funeral.
I would argue The Wheel of Time books are not Dark Fantasy. The Wheel of Time TV tried to force the series to be Game of Thrones which then made it not Dark Fantasy but rather Cringe Fantasy.
In my own writing, I've always tried to achieve a balance. I do go rather dark at times, but I definitely try to make sure there are moments of beauty, fun, and wonder.
"Narratives without hope or joy never interested me." Bloodborne: Hold my 20 blood vials. Of course, your own perspective and opinions are valuable and good to be aired out and discussed. That said, I'm a bit iffy on the title. Saying the "Return of GOOD fantasy" is kinda clickbait-y and still implies that all the dark (and even grimdark) fantasy thus far has been mediocre or bad, even if the subjective element is implied.
There's a certain authenticity that comes with not going for the family friendly, like if the writers have leave to cross that threshold, they probably have leave to tell their story uninhibited.
While listening to this video, it made me think of a line from Gandalf when speaking to Elrond and Galadriel. “Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.” Edit: ok, to be honest, i wrote this comment halfway through your video and felt like deleting it once i saw you actually put it in the video🤦🏽♂️
Oh boy. You did stumble a bit at interpreting Warhammer. No hope or joy? Not entirely. There is plenty of hope and joy, albeit a somber one because the characters in the setting are well aware of their situations and the circumstances that they will die eventually. So their hopes and joys then to be mlre personal and "hidden" in a sense. From the amazing and heartwarming comradery between Gortrek and Felix who needed entire books before they opened up to each other to Karl-Franz and his friendship with Louen, ect. ... There is a lot of (bitter)sweetness inside the setting. The idea why there is only grimdarkness without things getting better is because everyone values themselfs just a tiny little bit more than others and they value their pride and themselfs just "that" much more. E.g. friendships lasting for hundreds of years but falling appart because of a single misunderstanding and both sides being to stuborn and pridefull to admit their flaws and mistakes. "Everything sucks" because of the mistakes are born out of a feeling of superiority compared to the past as well as a priority of ones own needs and constant chasings of hopes and joys over others and their needs and problems which ultimatly lead to the downfall of the world. They are stuck inside the mindset that Frieren had for decades. But this is Warhammers message to us! Do not be a selfish dreamer! Life is hard and more often than not harsh but colours do still exist in the dark. We just have to take a closer look. If one accepts that there is only darkness instead then they have already lost. Or to say it in the words of the best emperor who ever emperored: "It will always be your choices which decides the faith of this world. Make the right ones." Yet the people of Warhammer did not. And these are their lessons they teach us. . Also, keep up the good quality. You truly deserve more views!
I'm glad you Warhammer fans are coming in to correct me. I've really enjoyed the fervor ya'll have for a franchise I have a hard time getting into outside of the tabletop game!
@@Tantalus017Please don't get me wrong! I don't want it to sound like an attack. The problem with Warhammer and its "grimmdarkness" is that it's primarily a tabletop battle game and the lore has always been built around the game mechanics. How can you have constant war? Make everything suck! How can you make everything suck? ... No idea. That was the deal we had for decades until GW slowly started taking the setting more seriously overall in the mid-90s. They added depth to characters and events that were nothing more than miniatures and over 35! years they slowly figured out how to create a dark setting that was colorful and with hope at the same time: Yes, Bretonnia is an oppressive feudal state, but it cares deeply about its own citizens and their religion, maintains a code of chivalry and if you honor them, they honor you in return. Yes, Chaos is "evil," but if you're faced with the choice of watching your family die at the hands of your fellow humans/elves/dwarves/etc... wouldn't you accept an unorthodox offer to save them? Gods, not just Chaos, all have characters, personalities, and emotions of their own. They care for their followers in their own way, even if that kind of way may seem barbaric or cruel to outsiders. In return, the faith of their followers influences the gods to some extent. Yes, the ogres are all cannibals, but they were the apex predators until a comet ate almost all of them (literally) and fundamentally changed their cognitive behavior. Now they've crawled back from the brink of extinction and the world can hire their strength by simply giving them food. . But the fundamental problem is that everyone has their own agenda. And every god, faction, and significant and interesting person ultimately wants one thing: to have their cake and eat it too! The whole point of Warhammer is that ALL bad things could have been avoided if the people hadn't been so selfish, and in many ways still are. If they swallowed their pride and accepted their own weaknesses and faults: Nagash could have saved the world from gods, magic and chaos, but he wanted to be king instead of being a priest, wanted to be a god himself. He wanted to be the only one in a world of mindless undead automatons because he got betrayed as revenge for double crossing other more often that he should had. The Dragon Emperor allowed himself to be corrupted by Morrslieb, the second moon, in his fanatical attempts to save the people of Cathay, and became increasingly paranoid and distrustful of his wife and children, believing that only he and his grand plans (which he never told anyone about) could save the world. His mistrust was causing his empire to fall apart. The Elves and Dwarves could have led the "younger races" to glory and prosperity but they only wanted their own empires instead. Malakith/Malerion could have been the shining beacon of hope and light, not just for the elves but the entire world, but he was impatient and wanted all glory and fame immediately. Even Chaos, the great, big, bad "evil," could have won countless millennia ago, but it chose its "great game" over the destruction of the world and their vengeance on the Old Ones. Now, the ashes of the Warhammer world have given birth to gods as powerful as themselves, threatening their very existence. Warhammer always works best in an environment of grey morality. Evil is there, yes. And life is hard and unforgiving, also true. But people are still alive! They still care about each other! Because they all want want to see the next day. Their downfall, however, is that they value their own personal goals just a little bit more than the wellbeing of others.
@@RealCodreX No worries, didn't take it as an attack, I genuinely think your comment is great! My only experiences with Warhammer have been playing the tabletop game, which I thoroughly enjoy, and a bit of the old d100 RPG, so my understanding of the world is much more lacking than I thought. Thanks for sharing the lore, it does sound pretty interesting!
Beautiful video, I couldn't agree more with everything you said, Frieren made me think about Gandalf's words as well, and it has becomed one of my favorite anime, Frieren changed me 🤍
To be honest I think this is because it’s all about the characters, castlevania is a great example, it’s basically all about the characters, the plot is very very basic, it’s just go here to kill a person But the characters have amazing chemistry and many of them very fascinating character arcs and this is what the focus is in It lacks a romantic quality because well romantic storytelling is about the world, and this isn’t about the world, this is about people. In fact tbh I think the lack of focus on the world is exactly what your really missing here because I think one of the defining features of shows like castlevania was that the characters were having fun, as batshit as it sounds Trevor and sypha are clearly enjoying themselves for most of the verities. Also I think while this maybe holds true for television it’s not true for books at all, stormlight is going very strong atm as are other prominent fantasy series in the page
In my opinion Dungeon Meshi is even better in that regard, and it some regards it and frieren feel like companion pieces to one another. Concerning a certain character at least
Your video made me think again why I probably felt quite dissatisfied and empty with AOT’s ending when it first came out in the manga (well, one of the reasons). It did feel lacking in the hope and joy of a concluded series. Now that may be the intention here, but personally it’s a big factor to a memorable and truly impactful ending. I’m thinking here the ending Vinland Saga S2 and Gintama (my top 2 faves). Now a lot of work might be needed if AOT is to end in a different note, but I can’t help wonder of a version of it that would have felt more joyful, hopeful, and impactful. I love Frieren as well and it singlehandedly made me shift my preferences a bit to liking laidback, happy, mundane but well-made fantasy and even isekai shows. Whereas before I only for the Aot type of dark fantasies. I think this is something JJK could have more of in between all the bleakness. It used to have those slice of life scenes but since S2…
How about a story about a boy who was externally corrupted by dark crystal magic, looking like a crystalline puppet, but escaped from his captors, and wandered the land out of sadness? I’m working on an Aztec-inspired fantasy with some Bible themes, and my main character starting off as a human boy who was turned into Pinocchio who almost became one of the villain’s crystal goons.
Most modern fantasy shows try to deal with the certainty that there's risk of death. Frieren as a show simply shows that death itself is certain, come time. Two vastly different approaches, neither is more or less realistic than the other. It's just a matter of how the focus is structured.
I have a penchant for dark fantasy and stories. I grew up on Dark Souls and Berserk. to me the value of dark stories is in the silver lining of hope, resilience or other values and how intensely bright those themes can shine in the face of bleakness. I'm a sucker for "triumph of the human will" and "fighting spirit" If everything is miserable on a macro level, you can still have characters value each other, make things better on a micro level and struggle and fight against despair. The message of Berserk isn't that you should give up because "aren't people just horrible and everything sucks" Although I'm convinced that's the takeaway for GoT. I don't even mind "anyone can die" in narratives. but it's just poor writing if characters don't die FOR something or their absence isn't felt. Cyberpunk Edgerunners was pretty bleak, but the bittersweet tragedy still has weight and gravitas. Losses are felt and that means they had value, it isn't cynical and cheap. Something else GoT fails at by having characters die unceremoniously to no end. I think Grimdark, like most genres, is its weakest when writers lose the trees for the forest and focus too much on macro worldbuildiing, machiavellian schemes and big grand world events. And forget to tell stories about individual people, at least some of which need to have redeeming qualities, or be even slightly relatable. It's a failing of 40k, but even they hire writers who get it write from time to time.
Thanks a lot for tour video, you explained well a feeling that I had about this show. There is a tabletop rpg comming that is called Legend In The Mist, and the studio that is creating it invented a term for its style : « Rustic Fantasy » I became quite obsessed with it, their description of a farmboy going on an adventure, fireside stories, journey etc. Since this term is new, there is no medias that claims it as their inspiration, however there is for sure plenty of story that fit the bill without knowing it. Frieren is one of them, and sir made it clear why we can call it Rustic Fantasy ! Thanks again
This is precisely what I like about the Mahabharata. The climax of the story is not the fateful battle of Kauravas and Pandavas in the Kurukshetra war; is not when Bhima kills Duryodhana; not when Yudhishtira defeats Shalya; nor when Yudhishtira finally is cronwed as Emperor of Hastinapura; the climax of the story is when he outlives his brothers while climbing the Himalayas with his sole company: a god. He then meets Indra who will allow his entrance to Heaven, not to the dog, and Yudhishtira refuses the offer because of the dog's unflinching devotion. While Yudhishtira couldn't prevent the deaths of his brothers and wife, abandoning such poor creature is a great sin. It is only then when it is revealed that this dog is Yudhishtira's father: Yama.
Never forget Frieren's ultimate lesson. Flamme spent her entire life training Frieren to suppress her mana so she could fool and defeat the demon king. Frieren trained for hundreds of years after that. When she finally confronted the demon king, he saw through that deception. It was the "useless" spell that Flamme taught Frieren on a whim at the end of her life, that Frieren carried into the future, and showed to a boy who was lost and afraid in a dark forest that inspired Himmel to become a hero and seek Frieren out. The great evil was defeated by a field of flowers.
Exactly
What's the most powerful spell in the world?
@@iezuborn Biden blast
Yup hundreds of years spent to fool the Demon King got wasted cause he saw through it all,
Spoilers
The Demon King knew he would lose and already prepping for her arrival, the words of Schlatt himself said, I'm sorry Frieren but you cannot see my battle with the Hero of the south
Beautifully said.
"when I step out of the door, I should be looking for what I could find, not dreading terrible things that could happen" this line hit me into my core somehow
Aside from being a feel good Anime, it has many sweet messages about life.
I was living in a messy house with my mom and 20 cats when last December, I ordered some pico de gallo for the burritos I was making at my mom's request, for dinner. The Walmart spark delivery driver saw the other 2 deliveries for that day hadn't been picked up and ordered a wellness check, the police came and saw the mess and charged me with felony elder abuse. My mom tried to tell them she was well taken care of and she didn't want me taken away, and when the police didn't listen she threatened to kill herself to get their attention, and probably out of frustration. It's what she would do if I didn't listen to her and she got extremely upset. They hauled her off the the hospital for evaluation and determined she was never really suicidal, and recommended she be transferred to a long-term care facility. I was supposed to be released on the 23rd of December after video court but instead the court (which was scheduled to go on vacation on the 24th) decided to see no one on the 23rd. I spent the entire court Christmas-New Year vacation break in jail. Since I wasn't around, my sister-in-law got to make the decision on where to put my mom and she put her some place that treated her like she was on hospice. They didn't want my mom getting out of bed because they said "if she fell it would be a liability for them". Instead they doped her up on Ativan, a surgical sedative, up to 6 times a day, often grinding the pills up and putting them in her food. She was in a state where she couldn't open her eyes but she could respond to questions and she certainly couldn't eat or drink. I tried to get her out of there, but everything I tried people would treat me like a monster on account of the charges, or tell me I didn't have power of attourney. I called the paramedics when the place told me she was dying and they concluded she was dying of dehydration and started her on an IV. They took her to Redlands Community Hospital (her normal place was Kaiser) and the hospice told them my sister-in-law had power of attorney. The hospital refused to let me see her. Sister-in-law demanded they take her back to the hospice and I was forbidden from visiting her for the last 3 days before she ultimately died from dehydration. When it came time to sign my mom's body over the mortuary it turned out my sister-in-law never had power of attorney, and I had to come down and release the body.
I've been homeless now for 6 months. My public defender was pretty bad, he didn't want to fight at all, or offer any counter argument to the DA in negotiations. All he wanted to do was capitulate and get me to sign a deal. They told me I'd be able to live my life if I just signed the plea to a misdemeanor. He kept telling me that we wouldn't win, that people would see the mess and wouldn't listen to me. I asked for more time to consider the deal, and ask for a second opinion from another lawyer since my mom had just died 3 days before and I was in no state to make such decisions, the judge denied my request bemoaning "the case that never ends" and telling me it was "instant dispo", no probation, and I'd be an idiot not to take it. My defender swore at me, said I wasted their whole day getting them to go back and forth like a bunch of f**king a**holes, getting the deal just how I wanted it and now I wasn't signing it. I tried to change the charges I was pleaing to but the DA wouldn't budge, so I signed the deal since my mom was gone anyhow. BIG MISTAKE, nobody is hiring me and I'm now branded a violent offender. I have nothing. I have nothing and I'm scared all the time of being arrested for sleeping in my car. I miss my mom, I miss the cats they put down, I miss home. I am happy for you all that you get to not worry about what might happen next, but I want you to understand that that is a luxury, and you're fortunate to have it. I would like to hope some day, I can have that again, but for now I live in a constant downward slide. I had to give all my savings to the cremation, I really just need a job to start turning things around, but even the gig apps turn me down based on my record.
I loved Frieren though, I started it before this all happened. It was a nice respite from my woes while it was running. Quiet, contemplative, and kind-hearted. I suppose yes, it was a nice escape. But I never cared much for the grimdark. I always kind of felt like, people who want to see tragedies in their media must live pretty good lives, if they need to feel misfortune so badly.
Dungeon Meshi has also earned a place as a worthy successor to pure D&D campaign fantasy anime Record of Lodoss War
And it makes people hungry for the food they cook in it.
THIS. As a devoted RoLW fan since the 90s Dungeon Meshi and Frieren brought me back to that feeling.
As well as Slayers
I would also list Goblin Slayer here. It has very satisfying party-based adventuring and a neat setting.
It leans more to the darker side of the spectrum and has an undeserved bad-rep because of it; but it also has things like the cheese conversation and the Slayer's party making him do a challenge run on a dungeon crawl to balance out the edginess.
@@Crusader-Ramos45
Oh man; most of the food in that looked so good XD
I’d recommend a show called Delicious in Dungeon (aka Dungeon Meshi) I think it fits the idea of a fun adventure about cooking and friendship despite its darker setting
uhh, you didn't finish it did you. I hadn't either; then saw the "tone shift"... yeah.
@@chuckles9702 They are definitely at the lowest point of the show. (Not sure because I haven’t read the manga) but with a few episodes left I don’t think they’ll completely get rid of their light hearted moments around the cooking. It’s kinda the point of the series
@@_Xenograde sweet summer child, a clip on YT ruined for me and yeah; the tone shift is real. It goes from a Frieren-vibe to Episode One of Goblin Slayer REAL quick.
+1, literally this and Frieren are my two favorite fantasy anime xD
@@chuckles9702 The manga for Dungeon Meshi is done and I have read the whole thing, it never gets to Goblin Slayer levels. Nobody dies in screaming terror as they are taken apart by goblins. Let alone what the goblins do with female captives.
People die in Dungeon Meshi, but death is outlawed in the dungeon. Death is still dangerous because if the body gets too badly damage, more effort is required to resurrect you, but it doesn't have to be permanent. This aspect is a driving force for the first act and what starts the second act.
Dungeon Meshi has its darker and serious moments but, that is relative to the lighter and comedic tone it usually has. It also doesn't stay in these moments. The next episode goes back to its usual tone. The lighter tone it normally has, similar to Frieren, makes the stakes of the more serious moments feel greater. All without having to go grimdark.
Shortly before discovering Frieren, I realized that I want to make a small video game that encompasses the hope that romantic fantasy brings and that my game should as inspire and empower the player to do good things in real life by showing that beauty can save the world. I felt that modern fantasy media was greatly lacking in doing that for its consumers, and I wondered if there was a huge demand for romantic or “GOOD” fantasy as you put it. I wasn’t sure if there was a large-scale demand, but I knew I needed more of that in my life. So, I had faith that my hypothesis was right and that I could create a successful game if I based it on the principles of romantic fantasy.
When I watched Frieren and saw how popular it was, I realized I was right. Not only did I long for GOOD romantic fantasy, but millions seem to have felt something like Frieren was missing and maybe didn’t realize it until they watched it.
I’m still at the beginning of making my video game, but with plenty of inspiration to draw from as well as your video essay to compare my notes with yours (so to speak), I think I will find success-not just financial, but in making the lives of my video game’s players just a bit more hopeful, meaningful, and fun. Thank you for the wonderful video!
I'm also willing to create a videogame, but first I'm writing a novel as a prequel of that game to introduce people to it's world, and I had the same objective, rescur the hope and joy of fantasy, I'm a fan of From Software games (I'm currently playing Elden Ring DLC), and more of Dark Fantasy, but it's true that gendet is over saturated, I wanted to rescue the idea of a better tomorrow and some good adventures with your party
If you really make that game, I hope you the best!
While Frieren's take-down of Aura was amazing, then one scene I keep rewatching is Stark's and Fern's dance at the soiree. There was something just so magical about it.
They hired professional dancers to motion capture. I don't know if there is another anime that has such consistently good animation.
A romantic dance or an intimate moment can be more magical than the most dazzling spell.
O lot of people got the writing of A Song of Ice and Fire wrong in my opinion. While it seems Martin kill characters for killing characters sake and some people starting writing like that, in Martin writing whenever an important character died it would made sense, it was the consequences of their own actions, the death mattered a lot for the story and it was very telegraphed. There is also a lot of hope in the story, but we will probably never know if it would pay of as it will likely never be finished.
Indeed. A very subtle point that GRRM made that many people missed is the true value of honor. Yes we all know how Ned Stark's honor got him killed, and that Tywin's pragmatism reigns supreme in defeating your enemies. But the moment both patriarchs were dead, that's where honor showed its value. Tywin, whose rule was made with fear began to crumble instantly, with enemies and false friends on all sides aiming to overthrow the Lannisters. Ned Stark on the other hand, had so many multiple parties longing for the old days when he ruled that for multiple books after his death, there are multiple conspiracies aiming to overthrow his enemies and return a Stark to power. That is loyalty that Tywin can only dream of.
there is a difference,
nobody gets ASOIaF wrong,
everytime they get it wrong is when they are talking about the show GoT. or viewing it through the lense of the netflix adaptation
the books are incredible, but GoT adaptation can k^ss my @$$. it doesnt have spirit of the story at all. not to mention all minor alterations absoljtely fks the story and ruismns characters and straight up cut content. it lacks elegance and mysticism of grim dark vibes of the books but feels just bleak and bland
House of the dragon is awesome tho. Westeros actually feels like the westeros from the books,
the grim dark fantasy setting feels supernatural with enough mysticism , meanwhile the GoT just feels bleak medieval setting with bits of magic here and there with tons of unnecessary t^ts and g0re.
Ppl don't read they just watched dumb and dumbers fiasco.
Dunk and Egg
That is one of the most significant differences between the books and the show. Martin is pretty ruthless at letting characters die when they mess up too bad. Hell, some characters seem to just wander off and die with no drama or fanfare simply because they no longer serve a purpose to the story. It's not about the shock of a character suddenly dying. It's about creating tension because mistakes have consequences.
In the show every major character death was treated as a big twist, while some fan favourite characters were given thick plot armour to artificially keep them around for way too long. Especially in the later seasons it made many deaths feel arbitrary and cheap. Dumb and Dumber got so caught up in trying to surprize the audience that they destroyed most of the tension those deaths were meant to maintain.
In the books it also helps that many central characters at one point or another end up quite distant from any central plot threads, which means they could die at any moment without derailing the story at large. It's the classic thing where you can get more tension from lower stakes. Like how Tyrion ends up going on an extremely humbling solo adventure deprived of everything but his wit, far removed from court politics. In the show that entire arc got cut, which meant Tyrion didn't get to be a true Nobody for any length of time. Someone the plot wouldn't miss.
So in the books, when Brienne's uncompromising sense of duty forces her into a fight against terrible odds in the middle of nowhere in her hopeless quest for Katelyn's children, it's nerve wracking because you can sense her time is almost up. You know that even if she survives, there will be terrible consequences. In the show, not so much.
I'm surprised to see Sword in the Stone - one of my childhood favorites, still is to this day. Nothing wrong with dark or grim, just makes the bright stuff shine all the brighter. Nothing wrong with grand and epic battles either, it's all part of the dream. Nicely narrated, and I liked how you closed the presentation.
Frieren is actualy one of very few shows I find funny. It is a refreching experience, that and its laid back tone. Super chill and a treat to watch
do love is war next then, pretty funny shit
This video was... very unexpectedly moving. The emphasis on romantic fiction, the little deeds of ordinary folk keeping evil at bay and having something to look forward to at the end of the day really resonate in these dark times. You've given me courage to get up and fight another day. Thank you.
A spot on video. Frieren has what I have been looking for in a fantasy story, adventure anime and even what an RPG game would look like as an animated series. It's about the characters and the little things that they discover or rediscover along the journey. The people in Frieren's world are friendly but not in a toddler-friendly cartoon kind of way. They show their kindness even when they live in a harsh world where monsters roam the countrysides, wars in the northern and south and mages getting killed in exams. None of that overbearing bleakness in current crop of fantasy and isekai shows with over-powered, cheat-skilled cringe lords on a revenge or harem building quests. The people in Frieren are also wise like Graf Granat protecting his city and Denken using his wisdom and leadership to get everyone to cooperate with one another. Perhaps they're in manga but I like that the anime has no useless and selfish fat nobles or conniving, backstabbing traitors.
Frieren reminded me of when The Witcher 3 game first came out. I spent much of 200 hours of gameplay just exploring the open world and completing side quests. When I finally decided that I couldn't find anymore side quests I simply quit the game without even bothering to finish the main stroyline. I only begrudgingly finished the main missions 2 years later when I wanted to try out the DLCs.
As a Lord of the Rings fan, watching Frieren was like pure bliss. It had the feels, the action, the fantasy in it's essence. Albeit it had some classic anime tropes, I love it.
There are two problems with dark fantasy. First, with expection of Game of Thrones, dark is commercial failure (and trap to new authors). All dark / low / grimdark books sold in less number, than Hobbit, Narnia or Discworld alone.
Second: dark fantasy is only aspect of wider problem, which can be named "maniheistic fantasy". Fantasy, when one side is always but always good, and second is always but always evil. In normal fantasy, like Frieren, LOTR or Warcraft everyone have bad and good sides. Quoting one of Tolkien latters: "Pride between elves, greed between dwarves, glutony and lazines between hobbit, madness betwen humans and beatryal even among wizards". In maniheistic fantasy we have aways lawfull stupid heroses and always chaotic evil minions of darkness.
Dark fantasy is only failed attempt to escape from maniheism.
there are few ways to make dark fantasy work, but the most reliable one is to let your characters be also bad, so many japanese light novels do this great : overlord, youjo senki, wortenia. When your protagonist is other peoples villain it lets you find fresh stories to tell in a mostly saturated genre.
@@korgalis Totally agree. Also grim dark fantasy could be done right in the way Joe Abercrombie writes. His settings are super dark(absolute hopelessness) and his characters are more black than grey, but you support them nonetheless. And his humour is top tier too.
Grimdark has it's place as a genre long before Fire and Ice; just people didn't look for it because everyone thought fantasy was either DnD or LotR. People who read Black Company know what I'm talking about (the novel by Glen Cook, not the similarly named manga).
@@chuckles9702 it was a little different. People thinks fantasy is Elmore-style D&D or LotR because they are (or maybe "was") far more popular, than grimdark.
In fact D&D in his early history was more dark, than heroic, because Gygax don't liked Tolkien (but liked Howard and Lovecraft), and had dark settings, like Raveloft, Darksun and Planescape BUT Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and Greyhawk outsales them many (3 to 10) times.
It was similiar with Black Company or (in recent times) Abercombie, who sold only fraction of what heroic fantasy used to sold (Glen Cook sold 1 million books, Abercombie if I remember: 5 millions, but R. A. Salvatore sold 30 millions of Drizzt novels... Only grimdark trully big seller was Song of Ice and Fire).
I think the greater problem, than competition grimdark / heroic was swarm of authors like Robert Redick or Jonathan Wylie, who thought they can repeat sucess of Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind or David Eddings simply re-writting Shannara, Shword of Truth or The Belgeriad.
What you speak of is called deconstruction: The process of taking a work or genre apart, examining how it works and using what you learn to create a new version, usually with the goal of making it more realistic or logically consistent. Ideally, this is supposed to be an improvement.
It doesn't necessarily mean making the work darker and more cynical, but that's unfortunately a typical reaction (often overreaction) to idealistic works that become perceived as childish or immature. Hence why superhero comics went through a notable "dark age" around the 90s, and we saw similar trends in video games, etc. It's symptomatic of a sort of fear that ones art of choice isn't taken seriously, and while it's not entirely a bad thing it can lead to creators missing the original point of the work altogether.
Compare the term "edgy", which is supposed to refer to experimental, avantgarde works that strive to break new ground (as in "cutting edge"), but has instead become slang for a sort of shallow, immature fascination with superficial grimdark aesthetics.
Agreed. There is a place for dark and grim dark fantasy, but it's only a small place in a very large ocean of stories. It shouldn't take up every inch of it. Variety is a beautiful thing and finally having a show that highlights the wonder of the small important moments in life and time. Frieren has become one of my favorites with how it portrays the passage of time and making memories now so we don't have regrets.
It is a big place in a medium sized ocean.
More than good fantasy, it's good writing. The fantasy itself in Frieren is just another version of stuff we've already seen everywhere. The writing and direction of the story is what sets it apart.
Gotta love that thumbnail of Gandalf crowning Frieren as the new Queen of Fantasy Anime.
She's mah queen!
I couldn’t agree more, and I say this as a fan of dark and grimdark fantasy like Berserk and Warhammer. The success of Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan has oversaturated fantasy with a reliance on bleakness and shock value in the name of so-called gritty realism.
They all have this nihilistic tone that spreads the mantra of how the struggle/suffering is all pointless, humans are by nature selfish assholes, heroism is for suckers, and we can never change. As far as I can tell, this gets old fast and just leaves you feeling empty and wondering what the hell you wasted all your time for (ie. Game of Thrones season 8).
But I would argue that the best dark fantasy makes hope and heroism stand out all the more. If goodness is a rarity in your setting, its value increases. Guts from Berserk inspires people to struggle against impossible odds. The Salamanders from WH40K are fan-favorites BECAUSE they are heroic in an otherwise evil, doomed universe. People who turn their noses up at optimism because it’s “unrealistic” are blinded by cynicism and ultimately stories that have that message won’t have a lasting impact. Whereas LOTR will last forever. In the words of ERBH
“News flash the genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee”
Despite everything man will strive for good. Evil is not our true nature. That's why your blood boils everytime you see the hero get treated like shit defeated countless times and in the end die to achieve a shitty "bittersweet" ending. There's no extra point in doing that unless you want to psychologically traumtise the same viewers who have wanted a satisfying conclusion.
The ending of AoT sucks, what happens to Guts and his loving wife during the eclipse is horrible. This is just writers shoving trauma on our minds.
@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 AoT was meant to mirror the history of mankind in real life, which is a cycle of war and hatred. Giving AoT a happy ending would be even more problematic, since it would require Eren to complete his rumbling and proves that an utopia is achievable through an act of genocide where both the innocent and the guilty are trampled upon for the sake of peace. Perhaps its just me, but AoT did validate my religious belief that this world isn't our final destination due to it being too corrupted by evil, and that a better afterlife will await those who remain righteous in an unrighteous world.
@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 I completely disagree. Some stories require happy, satisfying endings, while others require to be left unsatisfying and dark. It depends on the story and its themes and if executed properly, a dark ending can be just as effective as a happy one.
This is what I love about fantasy, an epic hike in magical landscapes. Maybe magic could be used as a seasoning, as long as it makes the mind wonder and travel a land coming from one's beautiful dreams
I'm trying to create fantasy locations based on real places I've seen or traveled to, as well as concepts I've imagined. I've not done anything so far outside of messy sketches and thinking about them
Of all the Frieren videos i have seen this might be the best one so far. You capture the nature of the show perfectly and put into words what i could never describe to others about the anime when i try recommend it.
When Frieren came out with the first 4 episodes I knew it was going to be one of my favorites. It gave me the same energy as LOTR and it made me so happy. I had been growing tired of the “killing characters because it’s realistic” in so many fantasy stuff that I felt LOTR was going to be the last true medieval fantasy to be enjoyable and I’m so glad there are still stories out there to give this kind of entertainment that I had grown up on
I feel like that’s the problem with most media right now. Especially when most of us have experienced a pandemic and the overall feeling of lost, there need to be some hope or inspiration in our media
The reason why some so simple like smiling friends is so good
I find myself coming back and watching your video a second time. It just sums up everything I subconciously thought about it. "Sousou no Frieren" and the "Apothecary Diaries" were my absolute favourites that carried me through winter...
I do agree that Frieren has been a been a nice change of pace, and even subverted our expectations of a more serious adventure by making the epic battle with the Demon King, being something that already happens before the main story takes place. However I disagree that this is what, "Fantasy is supposed to be." I also think the genre of Dark Fantasy series like Game of Thrones became popular because at the time, they also subverted the previous expectations of the time. For example in Attack on Titan when Eren and his friends are shown spending an entire arc training together, and a theme song plays with everyone gathering together to fight in unison, we expect a classic anime scene where the power of friendship conquer all, and therefore are left dumbstruck when nearly all of them are almost immediately killed. Despite this dark subversion, there are still grounded and peaceful moments in between with the theme of the series itself being, "The World is cruel, but also beautiful." Colorful images, beautiful landscapes, and simple moments of levity where characters jest, and develop between the moment of calamity reminding us that the world is more than just a cruel place. I also agree that the more grim elements of Dark Fantasy have become so oversaturated that it no longer breaks the mold, but instead fills it. In that way, a calm story like Frieren has the similar ability to change the direction of these stories. I hope that stories like Frieren and even the Adventures of Superman can help influence and reintroduce romanticism into the genre, but not because I think Dark Fantasy is inherently lesser, but because having diversity in our stories expands our culture and zeitgeist in a pleasant manner.
I also disagree of the notion of one type of fantasy. Because the word is FANTASY, it can be anything. And in my opinion Frieren is kinda boring, I mean Elves are my least favorite fantasy race and I don't care for traditional fantasy but at the same time I respect people that do.
People like their light and dark fantasies for plenty of reasons. I'm a fan of both, but I've always felt that there needs to be a little light in the dark, and a little dark in the light. Yin and Yang, right? A lot of my most favorite moments in dark fantasy like Game of Thrones are those moments of grace, where characters are at least able to express that even if they are doomed to die in a God-forsaken Universe, they can at least hold to the value they place in their own lives, or the lives of one another.
And inversely, a lot of my favorite moments in light fantasy are where characters are forced to confront their or their world's shadow.
What makes a dark fantasy good is if there is still hope... still light at the end of the tunnel. The darkness of the world can make the light seem that much brighter. If the story can't do that its not going to be good
there in lies the trap some authors fail, when does the hope shine.
there's a limit to how much audiences can endure watching their favorite characters suffer or be punished, in their quest the main cast are either rarely ahead, they're mostly far out paced or overwhelmed by just how many small and or major wins the author(s) have given to the dark or chaotic factions, that in the end even a pyrrhic victory doesn't seem worth it.
Then we are cursed, because there is no light in the end of the tunnel irl...
@El_Gungas depends on the person and their story. As for the world as a whole the light is gone when people give up but there are plenty of people who are fighting against the problem the chose. As for afterlife that's you're own problem to think about.
There is no "return".
"Frieren" is not a Western product so nothing has changed for us. Disney is also trying to take over the anime industry. So there is no “return”, no, everything will get much, much worse.
Indeed.
Those quotes from Gandalf and Sam are perfect for not only fantasy stories but also for our everyday lives.
I honestly wish they were more dark, rather than less. What I do agree with though is that a little more emphasis on heroic virtue would do us a lot of good
Opinion made and heard.
This is why there are several genres. Not everyone has similar likes and dislikes.
It kinda sounds like believes there's only one type of fantasy. But it's called.... fantasy
Thanks. You are very correct. You have made me think about my DnD campaign, and how things have been going lately. Maybe... Maybe I'll add some mundane things. Common things. Things that make one smile even if its all in our heads.
One of best videos I've seen about Frieren. And I love when people quote LotR in Frieren's videos
Stories are vessels to carry moments of emotional payoff; they must give a sense of emotional release or otherwise progress, and to do that, they must rely on inspiration or reflection-- they must change something about the reader/audience. The "protagonist" doesn't always have to "win", but the story cannot simply go through the motions of progress without emotional resolution. Dark fantasy (as we know it today) often hinges on a world, settings, characters, or otherwise that won't ultimately change for the better by the end of it all, so the lesson and emotional resolution.. is that none of it mattered to begin with. The world and it's characters will not grow or change; and so neither does the mind of the audience. That's why dark fantasy falls apart-- while it's obsessed with a more "realistic" depiction of fantasy, it's simply not realistic for everyone to be so evil, so self-absorbed, that literally no one is trying to simply enjoy their lives. It's just an author's statement about their own inner turmoil and subsequent pessimistic outlook on life; and that will undeniably resonate with many.. but the hurt that causes the pessimism will pass, and ultimately give way to different feelings as time progresses. Stories, much like life, are not about experiencing the same emotion or event forever, but accepting that there are many unique experiences, "good" and "bad".
Good fantasy is like a river: it goes everywhere, experiences everything, is never bogged down for long, and is always refreshing, even if you know where it'll all end up in the end.
Edit: Beautiful video and message! Subscribed!
Yeah even some stuff like Trigun or Dollhouse or Final Fantasy X or ATLA. Felt like even though the world could be so harsh and the characters could suffer and go through tragedy, it felt like ultimately it was worth it in that they changed the world and it left you with a bit of upliftingness. It meant something for our protagonist to change instead of being just tragic or random stories. Stories about the character overcoming a lot can mean a lot.
Tolkien probably would've approved of Frieren. He would have have praised Yamada.
It took me a while to lay my finger on a show like Frieren but thats just it "it gets it".
All of fantasy stems from the complied inspiration from aincent biblical stories and old folktales having come together in Tolkiens world more or less defining the genre.
Lol no.
He himself said that there is only one way to write a fantasy and that is his own way. He discredited other works like Narnia or even Dune becajse of his personal bias.
Plus he hated cartoons and comics because they force us to have a certain image in iur heads.
Highly unlikely that he would have had "approved" Frieren as good as it is.
Thank you. You echo my main problem with Warhammer and gave it context 👍😄
That's why Frieren reminds me more of the stories of my youth - sword and sorcery, Tolkien's original...
The spell that defeated the demon king wasn't Zoltraak, or any of the others Frieren knows.
It was a spell that creates a field of flowers. A small thing that reassured a young boy lost in the woods while looking for herbs.
The spectrum you're trying to address isn't about realism, but rather attempts at edginess. What I think people enjoy from realism is believability (consistency with actual behavior of both humans and physics, and for magic rules to be consistent relative to these). This is welcome in whatever the content is: slice of life or heroes' journey type of narratives.
Exactly 🤗
This is the best summarization of the show i've seen so far, GREAT work and thumbs up ;-)
I do agree. I can enjoy dark and grimdark stories, but there's just been so many and it becomes kind of like a raincloud blotting out the sky.
The fun of a romantic adventure is why I've enjoyed Frieren and konosuba so much, and why I had a bit of a hard time making it through the 2nd season of reincarnated as a slime. It was such a tone shift from the first season that it lost a bit of its magic to me.
This was a breath of fresh air.
Optimism isn't shallow.
We need to get back to what you are saying here.
This happened to Magical Girl shows in general too, thanks to the popularity of Madoka Magica. They all went dark & deconstructionist, and while a bit of that occasionally is fun, it gets really really tiring when that's *all* there is. You have to build something eventually.
Fairy Tales are eternal for a reason, and you can tell them in any genre. Heck, even Star Wars is a fairy tale. There's too much post-modernism in society today.
The field of flowers quest was, arguably, in many ways, the most meaningful for the plot in Frieren:
It was when she was stubbornly looking for something truly meaningful for her by virtue of the connection to Himmel the Hero; it also showed how long she's willing to spend in order to achieve her goal; it also was what ultimately, with the help of the herbalist, pushed Fern to be able to open up her feelings, concerns and thoughts to Frieren regarding how long time they use looking for goals that ultimately are not as meaningful in the grand scheme of things, but by using so many much time in them, it can weigh down on humans who have a much shorter life span than Frieren and put forward the need to respect the time of the people who is with her and not only to focus on the single most task at hand, but also prioritize the time of others and by doing so, express and show her appreciation towards those around her.
It was a meaningful event in many ways, in spite of being only about finding one flower, or in this case, the pay off was a full field of them
It's almost like watching people Suffer isn't entertaining when that's all there is...
People suffering is basically the middle ages.
Thank you for saying it out loud.
No amount of memes has convinced me to watch this series, but you got me. Grabbed me by the heart.
I’m a very picky consumer of entertainment, but this sounds just about right.
For a while now I've been thinking about the "anyone could die at any moment, and should" mission statement as taking toys out of the toybox just to break them.
This video didn't bring up the term noblebright in opposition to grimdark, but there's an old blog post that pops up if you look it up that covers a similar sentiment with lots of overlap.
Came for the thumbnail and left with tears 😭
Magic is the point, boyo! You don't need fantasy to have joy, sunrises and pleasant company.
10/10 video. You did understand and explain very well your argument. And i think ita absolutely true, and it's the true core of an awesome fantasy like Frieren is. You said well, Sauron was not defeated by the great armies but by two small hobbits, and the demon king was ultimately destroyed by a boy who dreamed to be a hero, and was lost in a forest and got saved by an elf who made a field of flowers appear, and his party, as frieren says, if only one of them wouldn't have been there, they would have lost, and its not luck as Serie says, but the sweet fruits of many little good actions.
Thank for guiding me onto a lighter path in my worldbuilding
I will push back a little bit on what you said about dark fantasy. You said there's nothing interesting about stories that lack (or even mock) hope or joy.
Berserk absolutely has hope and joy as key features of character development, that's why it hits so hard for so many people, that's why it resonates decades after its first big hiatus, that's why people kept tuning back in each time there was a new chapter released.
I think there should be a difference between dark fantasy, where there can be hope and joy, and cruel fantasy, where there is no hope or joy at all.
I remember how Fairy Tail was loathed because, while it did get dark in its later arcs, it never went dark or serious enough for the western anime fanbase as a whole. Everyone called it corny and cheesy because of the power of friendship theme. But once it ended, and its sequel series started airing, I saw a bunch of people, mostly women and LGBT communities, latch onto FT as a shining example of a story about a found family. Now I see more people defending the series because it makes them happy, rather than people hating it for being too happy like it was back then.
Now, if you want my personal and subjective opinion, when your friend's family is being actively starved to death by a genocidal dictatorship and not a single person is doing a damn thing to stop it, that shit changes you, and all the tall about "hope" and "joy" fall on deaf ears.
But then again I'm not someone who believes in escapism so my views are very different from most people. There is no hope for my friend's dying family and there is nothing I can do to change that.
Excellent points!
then how dark souls work? there is only desperation in that world
Nice point.,, well then again the party of frieren already defeated the big boss,. The dark ages have already been conquered, we're just facing some criminals on dark alley, nothing more, nothing less,.
But then Frieren is a story of Some mundane experiences like normal people do have, but in a fantasy setting,.
Gandalf crowning Frieren as the thumbnail had me laughing out loud 😂, but the content was so good that I stayed until the very end! 😍
I was already impressed with the video's start but then I heard Skyrims OST playing faintly in the background that was the thing that made me like and subscribe. 10/10 would recommend. 😀👍
popularity has and never will be in it of itself an expression of quality
It was a mere 28 episodes. Not even 12 hours, less than a day of thousands we have. Not even 0.002% of the average life span for my species. But it like Fern for Frieren, it can change us.
I love this take on Frieren! Great perspective, and well articulated! I fully agree with this sentiment 💙
Great video. To my favourites for sure. A gem 💎
Freiren is wonderful.
Amazing writing.
I love dark fantasy, the feeling of playing From Software games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring and exploring those grim worlds filed with filt and mistery is fantastic. But I also think it was getting over satured, too much dark stuff was being done recently and as consequence not much of it was good. Then I found Frieren manga a few years ago and oh boy what a breath of fresh air it has been. I'm so glad it got such epic anime adaptation and I could experience this wonderful story twice. Also, now that it is making so much success probably we will have a bunch of bright fantasy and probably most of them will suck, but that's ok, it's how cicles work.
This echoes my thoughts on Frieren and the overall state of fantasy perfectly!
If you really think about it. People wanting/enjoying negative anime is more of a sense of "They have it worse than me." A negative way of uplifting one self.
It's easier to be happier when someone else is suffering more, than it is to strive for the same level of quality of life from someone who is suffering less.
I can't watch AoT, literally because of this potential train of thought. One that can easily send unstable people (such as myself) who've had very rough upbringings, and even struggle today, down a spiraling abyss.
Because of this, i prefer to watch stuff like Frieren (or even very well written, but sometimes very sad, Slice of Life anime (i.e. Clannad)). With Frieren, it's an escape from reality. I get to enjoy a world type that i've enjoyed since i was a kid (reading Terry Brooks, and others of the like), as it allows me this fantastic euphoric feeling. Seeing the different levels of art work. The grand narratives and well written characters. This is also exactly why i LOVE Studio Ghibli, and especially Princess Mononoke.
I think it also helps that the perspective of this anime is literally from the PoV of it's Name-sake. When, over the coarse of the 28 episodes, you notice time is slowing down for Frieren. Because she's actually Bonding with Fern and Stark. That all these events are reminding her of specific periods of time with someone she obviously loved, but never started realizing it until this period of time.
This anime is such a masterpiece for those who want the Euphoria of High Fantasy, but that's also mixed with the very vibrant art of Madhouse, and the completely magnificent (but not as important) Fight scenes with just as equal vibrancy.
If i had to rank this with others:
1: Frieren
2: Clannad
3: Mononoke Hime
4: FMA: BH
5: Literally any other SoL (or even very well written Isekai) anime.
One Piece fans: "We have Romance since it dawned!
All your points can be seen in One Piece and it's ongoing for decades, over a thousand chapters of hope, romance and dreams.
But I don't wanna watch a thousand episodes though
@@grantdelosangeles5357
Then don't watch it, nobody is forcing you.
@@grantdelosangeles5357 Wait for the Netflix remake
You definitely nailed it. I’ve always hated overly dark stories. And you’re right, game of thrones is probably to blame lol. Unfortunately most tv writers are not capable of the nuance in the asoiaf books that keep the countless tragedies from feeling pointless. The walking dead is a big one too. There have been so many depressing franchises in the last couple of decades.
Like…real life is grim enough. Do I really want to watch fictional people live miserable lives full of despair and fear until they eventually die in agony? Not really!
Having read the manga, I don't think you'll be disappointed, because we get a little bit of a taste of what we'll see in the next chapters basically.
Interesting Game of Thrones is mentioned.
It has given George a reputation of being a nihilist but he also wrote Dunk and Egg and let me tell you, the adventures of Sir Duncan the Tall are a breath of fresh air, full of hope and exploring what being a true knight means.
this happens so often on youtube too. so many video essays talking about the 'darkest, most realistic episode that people missed' is just a sad or a negative episode. I understand that people consider 'depression = realism' because we're ground down to accept it but usually these scenes are just dramatic or melodramatic charactisations, or implied tragedy beyond the scope of the explicit events on screen.
projecting emotive and implied tragedy as 'realistic' i think overstates the reactions people have in real life though, and perhaps thats the fanatasy game of thrones viewers want. in real life the implication of ruining your shoes is slavery in sweatshops, the implication of not being able to afford petrol is war in the middle east, the implication of a job loss is mortgage default for masses of people. These things are visible in the public consciousness but not typically emoted on, so i understand people wanting to see that on screen and have the cartharsis of 'understanding' and 'feeling' the true impact of simple events, in a way that the real world doesn't care about.
thanks god someone finally made a story that is happy and well adjusted, where the characters can handle loss and change without succumbing to madness or re-rolling their entire characters as a stoic. frieren is even the opposite - learning that stocism and rationalisation of her necesarry imlied tragedies (of outliving everyone) has caused her regret and loss too.
So sick of dark fantasy. I watch fantasy to see a world I would like to live in.
8:53 I knew it. Before you even brought it up I thought of Tolkien's sentiments of the shire.
I think Sousou no Frieren is fine, I enjoy it well enough, but I never quite got why everyone seems to love it so much. It doesn't do anything too special or groundbreaking, it's just very earnest and contemplative. I guess fantasy fans are simply sorta starved for that these days?
I would say that the misuse of Dark Fantasy, or simply it's use as a loose back drop is usually the issue. Good Dark Fantasies like Dark Souls, are meant to have fun moments and motivating themes. In spite of sad and scarry atmospheres.
But the biggest challenge for good Dark Fantasy is that it's atmosphere is sort of adapted as a "fine art" leading to multiple interpretations. Which is why it has been used is so many ways. The same could be said for normal fantasy as well with so many isekai shows. Frieren definitly has a real fine art element to it, in both visual and narritive ways.
Your video gave me the perspective, that I in contrast to you love both kinds of fantasy. None is better or worse than the other. Some readers like slice of life, others epic fights or emotionaly touching drama. While light fantasy gives me true heroes to look up to I can connect better to broken Heroes who struggle with their fate and the horrendous things they saw or did on their journey. They just scratch different itches for me.
Fantasy is following Aragon.
Dark Fantasy is following one of the surviving Rohirum riders, whose comrades died.
Grim Dark is following Theodred life, with the story ending with his funeral.
As a one piece fan Im very happy with how its going right now.
Just a beautiful analysis! I'm with you in the fact that I want to see more light and joy in fantasy.
I would argue The Wheel of Time books are not Dark Fantasy. The Wheel of Time TV tried to force the series to be Game of Thrones which then made it not Dark Fantasy but rather Cringe Fantasy.
In my own writing, I've always tried to achieve a balance. I do go rather dark at times, but I definitely try to make sure there are moments of beauty, fun, and wonder.
"Narratives without hope or joy never interested me."
Bloodborne: Hold my 20 blood vials.
Of course, your own perspective and opinions are valuable and good to be aired out and discussed. That said, I'm a bit iffy on the title. Saying the "Return of GOOD fantasy" is kinda clickbait-y and still implies that all the dark (and even grimdark) fantasy thus far has been mediocre or bad, even if the subjective element is implied.
There's a certain authenticity that comes with not going for the family friendly, like if the writers have leave to cross that threshold, they probably have leave to tell their story uninhibited.
Saying there is a difference between Maturity and Grimdark undermines the value of grimdark
While listening to this video, it made me think of a line from Gandalf when speaking to Elrond and Galadriel.
“Saruman believes it is only great power that can hold evil in check, but that is not what I have found. I found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay… small acts of kindness and love.”
Edit: ok, to be honest, i wrote this comment halfway through your video and felt like deleting it once i saw you actually put it in the video🤦🏽♂️
I'm not against one or the other. What is true is that Frieren arrives at the right time. At the time of fatigue of "dark fantasy" and isekai.
I got a really good cry, dude. Thank you.
Perfect statement! 👍
Oh boy. You did stumble a bit at interpreting Warhammer.
No hope or joy?
Not entirely.
There is plenty of hope and joy, albeit a somber one because the characters in the setting are well aware of their situations and the circumstances that they will die eventually. So their hopes and joys then to be mlre personal and "hidden" in a sense.
From the amazing and heartwarming comradery between Gortrek and Felix who needed entire books before they opened up to each other to Karl-Franz and his friendship with Louen, ect. ...
There is a lot of (bitter)sweetness inside the setting. The idea why there is only grimdarkness without things getting better is because everyone values themselfs just a tiny little bit more than others and they value their pride and themselfs just "that" much more. E.g. friendships lasting for hundreds of years but falling appart because of a single misunderstanding and both sides being to stuborn and pridefull to admit their flaws and mistakes.
"Everything sucks" because of the mistakes are born out of a feeling of superiority compared to the past as well as a priority of ones own needs and constant chasings of hopes and joys over others and their needs and problems which ultimatly lead to the downfall of the world. They are stuck inside the mindset that Frieren had for decades.
But this is Warhammers message to us!
Do not be a selfish dreamer! Life is hard and more often than not harsh but colours do still exist in the dark. We just have to take a closer look. If one accepts that there is only darkness instead then they have already lost.
Or to say it in the words of the best emperor who ever emperored:
"It will always be your choices which decides the faith of this world. Make the right ones."
Yet the people of Warhammer did not. And these are their lessons they teach us.
.
Also, keep up the good quality. You truly deserve more views!
I'm glad you Warhammer fans are coming in to correct me. I've really enjoyed the fervor ya'll have for a franchise I have a hard time getting into outside of the tabletop game!
@@Tantalus017Please don't get me wrong! I don't want it to sound like an attack.
The problem with Warhammer and its "grimmdarkness" is that it's primarily a tabletop battle game and the lore has always been built around the game mechanics.
How can you have constant war? Make everything suck!
How can you make everything suck?
...
No idea.
That was the deal we had for decades until GW slowly started taking the setting more seriously overall in the mid-90s.
They added depth to characters and events that were nothing more than miniatures and over 35! years they slowly figured out how to create a dark setting that was colorful and with hope at the same time:
Yes, Bretonnia is an oppressive feudal state, but it cares deeply about its own citizens and their religion, maintains a code of chivalry and if you honor them, they honor you in return.
Yes, Chaos is "evil," but if you're faced with the choice of watching your family die at the hands of your fellow humans/elves/dwarves/etc... wouldn't you accept an unorthodox offer to save them? Gods, not just Chaos, all have characters, personalities, and emotions of their own. They care for their followers in their own way, even if that kind of way may seem barbaric or cruel to outsiders. In return, the faith of their followers influences the gods to some extent.
Yes, the ogres are all cannibals, but they were the apex predators until a comet ate almost all of them (literally) and fundamentally changed their cognitive behavior.
Now they've crawled back from the brink of extinction and the world can hire their strength by simply giving them food.
.
But the fundamental problem is that everyone has their own agenda. And every god, faction, and significant and interesting person ultimately wants one thing: to have their cake and eat it too!
The whole point of Warhammer is that ALL bad things could have been avoided if the people hadn't been so selfish, and in many ways still are. If they swallowed their pride and accepted their own weaknesses and faults:
Nagash could have saved the world from gods, magic and chaos, but he wanted to be king instead of being a priest, wanted to be a god himself. He wanted to be the only one in a world of mindless undead automatons because he got betrayed as revenge for double crossing other more often that he should had.
The Dragon Emperor allowed himself to be corrupted by Morrslieb, the second moon, in his fanatical attempts to save the people of Cathay, and became increasingly paranoid and distrustful of his wife and children, believing that only he and his grand plans (which he never told anyone about) could save the world.
His mistrust was causing his empire to fall apart.
The Elves and Dwarves could have led the "younger races" to glory and prosperity but they only wanted their own empires instead.
Malakith/Malerion could have been the shining beacon of hope and light, not just for the elves but the entire world, but he was impatient and wanted all glory and fame immediately.
Even Chaos, the great, big, bad "evil," could have won countless millennia ago, but it chose its "great game" over the destruction of the world and their vengeance on the Old Ones. Now, the ashes of the Warhammer world have given birth to gods as powerful as themselves, threatening their very existence.
Warhammer always works best in an environment of grey morality.
Evil is there, yes. And life is hard and unforgiving, also true. But people are still alive! They still care about each other! Because they all want want to see the next day.
Their downfall, however, is that they value their own personal goals just a little bit more than the wellbeing of others.
@@RealCodreX No worries, didn't take it as an attack, I genuinely think your comment is great! My only experiences with Warhammer have been playing the tabletop game, which I thoroughly enjoy, and a bit of the old d100 RPG, so my understanding of the world is much more lacking than I thought. Thanks for sharing the lore, it does sound pretty interesting!
This was a remarkably well-thought out video. Well presented, emotively spoken. Really solidifies how much I love Freiren and why. Loved it.
Beautiful video, I couldn't agree more with everything you said, Frieren made me think about Gandalf's words as well, and it has becomed one of my favorite anime, Frieren changed me 🤍
Lol'd at Zuko looking looking for the missing romance at 2:42
This somehow reminds me of a fantasy game, especially during its earlier days, Genshin Impact. Story arcs that are just there for the chill.
You must watch delicious in dungeon
To be honest I think this is because it’s all about the characters, castlevania is a great example, it’s basically all about the characters, the plot is very very basic, it’s just go here to kill a person
But the characters have amazing chemistry and many of them very fascinating character arcs and this is what the focus is in
It lacks a romantic quality because well romantic storytelling is about the world, and this isn’t about the world, this is about people. In fact tbh I think the lack of focus on the world is exactly what your really missing here because I think one of the defining features of shows like castlevania was that the characters were having fun, as batshit as it sounds Trevor and sypha are clearly enjoying themselves for most of the verities.
Also I think while this maybe holds true for television it’s not true for books at all, stormlight is going very strong atm as are other prominent fantasy series in the page
In my opinion Dungeon Meshi is even better in that regard, and it some regards it and frieren feel like companion pieces to one another. Concerning a certain character at least
We need stories that make room for the Numinous.
Your video made me think again why I probably felt quite dissatisfied and empty with AOT’s ending when it first came out in the manga (well, one of the reasons). It did feel lacking in the hope and joy of a concluded series. Now that may be the intention here, but personally it’s a big factor to a memorable and truly impactful ending. I’m thinking here the ending Vinland Saga S2 and Gintama (my top 2 faves). Now a lot of work might be needed if AOT is to end in a different note, but I can’t help wonder of a version of it that would have felt more joyful, hopeful, and impactful.
I love Frieren as well and it singlehandedly made me shift my preferences a bit to liking laidback, happy, mundane but well-made fantasy and even isekai shows. Whereas before I only for the Aot type of dark fantasies. I think this is something JJK could have more of in between all the bleakness. It used to have those slice of life scenes but since S2…
How about a story about a boy who was externally corrupted by dark crystal magic, looking like a crystalline puppet, but escaped from his captors, and wandered the land out of sadness? I’m working on an Aztec-inspired fantasy with some Bible themes, and my main character starting off as a human boy who was turned into Pinocchio who almost became one of the villain’s crystal goons.
Frieren embrace 100% Tolkien's soul
Most modern fantasy shows try to deal with the certainty that there's risk of death.
Frieren as a show simply shows that death itself is certain, come time.
Two vastly different approaches, neither is more or less realistic than the other. It's just a matter of how the focus is structured.
Good and true fantasy without isekai.
Isekai sucks, ngl
Nah dude we just have different taste of anime
I have a penchant for dark fantasy and stories.
I grew up on Dark Souls and Berserk.
to me the value of dark stories is in the silver lining of hope, resilience or other values and how intensely bright those themes can shine in the face of bleakness.
I'm a sucker for "triumph of the human will" and "fighting spirit"
If everything is miserable on a macro level, you can still have characters value each other, make things better on a micro level and struggle and fight against despair.
The message of Berserk isn't that you should give up because "aren't people just horrible and everything sucks"
Although I'm convinced that's the takeaway for GoT.
I don't even mind "anyone can die" in narratives.
but it's just poor writing if characters don't die FOR something or their absence isn't felt.
Cyberpunk Edgerunners was pretty bleak, but the bittersweet tragedy still has weight and gravitas. Losses are felt and that means they had value, it isn't cynical and cheap.
Something else GoT fails at by having characters die unceremoniously to no end.
I think Grimdark, like most genres, is its weakest when writers lose the trees for the forest and focus too much on macro worldbuildiing, machiavellian schemes and big grand world events.
And forget to tell stories about individual people, at least some of which need to have redeeming qualities, or be even slightly relatable.
It's a failing of 40k, but even they hire writers who get it write from time to time.
Thanks a lot for tour video, you explained well a feeling that I had about this show.
There is a tabletop rpg comming that is called Legend In The Mist, and the studio that is creating it invented a term for its style : « Rustic Fantasy »
I became quite obsessed with it, their description of a farmboy going on an adventure, fireside stories, journey etc.
Since this term is new, there is no medias that claims it as their inspiration, however there is for sure plenty of story that fit the bill without knowing it.
Frieren is one of them, and sir made it clear why we can call it Rustic Fantasy ! Thanks again
8:02 wait a minute, an apprentice named _Learnin?_
I feel better about my character names now.
all names and locations in Frieren are just german words
the characters are literally named after what/how they are
@@Lienhardismus I mean tolkien outright stole all his dwarf names and gandalf's name from one of the aeddas.
@@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606 true haha, but he also was the first to do so as far as i am aware
This is precisely what I like about the Mahabharata.
The climax of the story is not the fateful battle of Kauravas and Pandavas in the Kurukshetra war; is not when Bhima kills Duryodhana; not when Yudhishtira defeats Shalya; nor when Yudhishtira finally is cronwed as Emperor of Hastinapura; the climax of the story is when he outlives his brothers while climbing the Himalayas with his sole company: a god. He then meets Indra who will allow his entrance to Heaven, not to the dog, and Yudhishtira refuses the offer because of the dog's unflinching devotion. While Yudhishtira couldn't prevent the deaths of his brothers and wife, abandoning such poor creature is a great sin. It is only then when it is revealed that this dog is Yudhishtira's father: Yama.