Lewis never left , his opportunities to win had. The more time passed the more he feared he would fail to recognize the opportunity and let it it pass him by. That's why the telief was so palpable. Not His ability to win was in doubt but his ability to recognize the opportunity because for all intents and purposes winning with Ferrari is not a given. It is relief, redemption and confidence restored at the perfect place for Lewis.
When Mercedes is at the top of the leader's board by the end of final practice, Everybody should know by then that the car was performing at the year 2020 levels. Qualifying and the activities that accompanied qualifying established this P1 and P2 fact. This means that all relevant parties need to structure some plausible explanation As to why the second oldest at age 39, SLH, after 56 races, 945, 24 hr. periods & in the 344th F1 race of his Illustrious career will be allowed to ascended all other racers, young & old, To the VeRy Top Step of the great and famous and historic Silverstone Motor Racing podium a record ninth time. The man did not go anywhere. Give him a caR that cAn qualify P4 or LeSs and the man is capable of HuntING doWn the WiN$.
This is one race win after 56 races! 56!!!!! We are talking about 2% win percentage in 2.5 years guys! Not judging anything, but this is maybe going a bit out control!
Lewis is the goat! Didn’t have a father who was a former racing driver who gave him the best karts growing up. Meanwhile Lewis’s dad did four jobs, he’s obviously the GOAT!
Cameron's take on Charles Leclerc is completely misguided. He says "why does he not learn from Carlos Sainz?". Leclerc is still ahead of Sainz in the driver's championship! There is a reason why Ferrari is keeping Leclerc and his pace advantage is only part of that. Leclerc serves the team even if it doesn't make him look good like testing the upgrade this past Friday even after Ferrari decided against using it but needed data to fix and improve it for the future. Leclerc came to qualifying having spent most of Practice on a different car.
Hamilton has never been gone, Merc was off the pace for 2 & 1/2 seasons & seems to be against his full pace in 2024 to help Russell appear better. Lots of proof out there & many with their heads in the sand.
Schumacher's 96 and 97 Ferrari's were way off the pace. Alonso's 2010-2013 Ferraris were worse than Hamilton's McLaren. Alonso's Alpine at Hungary 2021 was significantly slower than the Mercedes.
@richy69ify Also, hungary is second only to monaco in terms of the hardest track to overtake. So defending against a faster car in Hungary is relatively easy.
The higher a driver ceiling, the longer his top-level competitiveness longevity. Let's say there is the GOAT driver in F1 his talent, skill, and technique are in full bars. This driver will beat any drivers in any generations as long as he still has full support for his talent and skill the like of energy, movement capacity, spatial awareness, reaction times, and etc. The closer a driver to the GOAT level the harder for any drivers to beat him. Hamilton is certainly one of the closest to if not the one only
@@madjayax731 So obviously I rate Lewis very highly and as one of the Mount Rushmore all time greats. The margins between the all time greats that exist currently on the grid is fine margins but they do exist. They all have very few weakness but in the case of Alonso his qualifying would be one of his weaker attributes. In the the case of Lewis he is not very good in adapting to a car and making the necessary adjustments to optimise an uncompetitive car to make it more efficient to drive. All the major rule regulations that happened in 2009, 2022 Lewis found it very challenging to get the best out of a car, or should I say to out-perform it. After in 2014 the Mercedes was an absolute monster and had a massive advantage over the rest of the field. Max doesn’t have any significant weaknesses and it’s his strong bulletproof mental capacity that makes Max such a force to be reckoned with.
Wins one race in 3 years; 'hes the goat'! Calm down, like all great drivers, he was able to put it all together one more time. That in and of itself, while awesome to see, has no long term bearing on his standing amongs the greats, but not above them.
I think Lewis's longevity is a result of many factors, his superb talent, his strong mental fortitude, his extremely healthy lifestyle, his ability to switch off and delve into various hobbies when off the track, his understanding of the platform he's been given and wanting to use it for as long a possible for the good of others, his priority placed on family and friends even in the midst of a crazy schedule, what else can I say. He's not perfect by any means, he has his failings too, but he's definitely one of the most well-rounded sportspeople I've ever seen. Even if Ferrari isn't that great now, I think Lewis is going to help them up a few steps from where they are now and it will go well for him there.
Lewis Hamilton is a fantastic driver but won his greatest achievements with a car built with an unlimited R&D budget with a majority of his overtakes on straights. Haven’t seen him perform like the GOAT people claim him to be with a mediocre car or perform any breathtaking races like max did in Brazil during the rain with sub par machinery. He’s yet to earn that title in my eyes. Right place at the right time.
You are right, they call him the goat when they speak about most accomplished driver. I have less often see people mention senna, schumacher, prost with lewis in one sentence when they speak about talent and skills. Lewis has alot of skills, but at those level? I don't see it.
@@virgilma6153 Prost was underrated for sure. It didn't help him much that the FIA president in that days was a French guy as well, implicitly making it look like Prost was handed to him all things. In the end Prost did a really good job pulling his weight and dealing with Senna. On raw talent Lewis was never the goat...not even close.
Remind me of the time Michael Schumacher or Senna won in cars that were not the best and did not have unlimited budgets. The worst car Schumacher ever won in was his first Benneton. Which still won 8 races and had 12 podiums in 1994 and had 11 wins and won the constructor's championship in 1995. And then he had his run of monstrous Ferraris. Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 won 15 of the 16 races in 1988. The MP4/5B was probably the worst car he drove in the midst of his championships and it still won the constructor's championship, as did the MP4/6. Yet no one had any trouble calling them the GOAT. That is such a dented argument.
He's done all of that, but they don't show them on the official F1 races. Good quality overtakes without crashing, insane wet race pace (faster than Max on most occasions) and everything. And if you want crazy divebombs and risky moves, you can go see young Lewis doing them in subpar McLarens. The thing is he's been in F1 for so long that people's opinion of him depends on how long they've been watching F1. That fantastic racecraft of his for which other drivers get hyped too much is not shown much cus it's expected of him. That's the price you pay for being number 1 for so long.
The more that watch the silverstone race the more that you see that as long as Lewis and Max have a fast car nobody else on the grid have a chance to win. I thought that the difference between Lewis and Max and the rest of the grid was close but after watching the silveratone race now a few times it’s clear that it’s not even close . It’s simply Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstapen and everybody else the rest of those aren’t even close to those two.
Goat. Maybe. Lewis had a bigger car advantage than Max ever did. So goat? Maybe. Stating goat so forcefully sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself. Oh Baxty
2 місяці тому+5
Remember Lewis won a title in 2008 and almost in 2007 when Fernando was the defending WDC and Lewis had never raced a F1 car. Max has only had stiffs for teammates and they resign Checo because does not want pressure from someone who might be as fast as he is.
Also red bull on current form seem to be actively ignoring any decent drivers to partner max and are scraping the barrel suggesting DR might get another crack at it.
Yeah Baxty hand-washes his Union Jack thongs in water from the royal founrtain at Buckingham Palace - NO HOPE of truth or objectivity from him- poorly-disguised Max-hater 🤡 can't drink that Baxty Kool-Aid ... pure poison ☠
Lewis just missed winning the title in his first season in F1 by a single point in 2007 against Kimi raikkonen a seasoned pro and went to win it in only his second season in 2008 with the mcLAREN which was way below the Ferrari's at time,Where did Max finished in his first two seasons? Your short memories amaze me at least he's won it with two different teams whereas max has only done it with redbull same as Vettel
Lewis can still do it... With a car 3 tenths faster than Max like Mercedes and McLaren were at Silverstone. Max was only in contention for the win only due to great tyre choice for his last stint, he could push while other managed. That RB20 was mediocre in Silverstone and hasnt been the fastest car since China. Put some respect on Max Verstappen's name please! 😁
Cameron I will say Lewis won the race. I will say this the race is made up of driving and strategy especially when the race is close as it has been in recent time but like when max was really dominating is strategy was not so much needed cause he was out in front but like Sunday’s race you could have fast car even faster than the other but if you muck up your strategy you lose the race
Guys I love how Lewis had people making excuses as a kid starting next to the reigning n defending n double world champion alonso 🤣2007 made me giggle and max is so great because he’s cut his teeth racing Lewis full stop 💯✊
You know what I love about this podcast Cameron??? You all give each other a chance to speak!!! I love it. I love that everyone usually waits for everyone else to finish their thoughts! I think there was only one time someone interrupted another person and it seemed for a valid reason. (You don't want to rule out healthy discourse either). I hate it when people talk over each other in these types of scenarios, it makes it so hard to follow and usually there are unfinished bits and pieces everywhere. You are such a good interviewer and moderator and I love your honesty and acceptance of when the others don't agree with your thoughts, lol, and without being offended. I don't necessarily agree with everything that was said but, this is one of the best and most constructive discussions I've heard on UA-cam in a long time. I also like that you had several well planned points of discussion but you were willing to delve into the Charles topic a bit further when it looked like that needed more discussion. Homework done but also flexible with the program. Great stuff, man! Respect!
3..2..1.. CRINGE, OUCH! Backstreet say "GOAT" so forcefully they almost tricked themself into believing it. Oh, Backstreet, I hope you feel better soon.
The definition of A goat ? The past Senna and now max never had 8 years long a super dominant car like mercedes had otherwise they had also already 7 titles
Only the BRITISH media is trying to diminish Max. Only the British media does this. Tbh Max is way and way better then Lewis who is exposed and exposed again, losing from teammates, been out qualified by ratio. Lewis is so entirely overhyped as a driver, the only excuse they bring up is his titles and racewins records after driving 100 years in F1 with car that had 150bph more then the rest of the field, but his driver skills arent goat material. Lewis career before F1 is so far off compared to Max its unbelievable its never mentioned by bias SKY Hamilton channel.. Lewis is a choirboy before F1 compared to Max. Poor, "no money" story, with his dad bs? No, Lewis had financial backup from Ron Dennis from the age of 12. Rainmaster..? well, Button ALWAYS won from Lewis when wet conditions, Button is not considered a rainmaster... so what is Lewis is then?? You got to f kidding me, hello British media you are making a complete utter joke of yourself..
I'm just going to select one of the points you made to show you're full of it. Pre f1 career.... lewis was already a GP world champion before coming into f1. Max wasn't. So yeah, far off, but not in the way you say
@@Mohawk_Racing Record win ratio (Max with only 1 dominant car , Lewis with 10 dominant cars) 1. Fangio 47.06% 2. Ascari 40.6% 3. Clark 34.72% 4. Verstappen 30%
@@richy69ify 1 vs 10 dominant cars? Exaggerate much? 😂 tell you what, f1 fans used to be intelligent, and respect all drives. Those days are far behind us aren't they
@@bobkeul7682 Only one person here making an utter joke of themselves Bob. Honestly, do yourself a favour. Ignore anyone who doesn’t think Max is an amazing driver, they know nothing about F1 as are those who say the same about Lewis (clue: that’s you) No, I genuinely hope you enjoy your guy winning for as long as it lasts as when that stops we both know Max will retire from F1 and move onto another race series, the Orange Army will be disbanded and they’ll go back to whatever farmers league football stand they came from, Zandvoort will go back to the sand swept relic it was before Max won his first WDC and the Netherlands will still have never had a Dutch born driver win an F1 race much less a world championship.
In my opinion, Lewis never really left. While personal confidence can fluctuate, he's still driving as well as he did from his GP2 days. When the car is competitive, his talent is evident. The issue is, we’ve been in the Verstappen era, so many, especially newer fans from my humble observation, might have overlooked Hamilton because of Max's success. Charles is experiencing something similar; he's driving well, but his car and team are not allowing him to fully showcase his potential. Verstappen's exceptional driving, strong car and great team make the gap seem larger than it is. Rather than a return, I think Hamilton’s recent win should be a reminder of his skill and ability to run at the front given a competitive car. Given a competitive car, it’s Lewis and Max with Charles somewhere behind these two. In my opinion.
Canada was not the softs, it was the mediums, they put him on the opposite strat to Gorge. GR went Hard > M Lewis they went M hard and they shouldn't have boxed him. He was on Mediums for 10 laps where as Norris/Vers took the Mediums to race end.
We should in the interest of accuracy point out the fact that Verstappen lost the 2021 Title even though he had the fastest car because like every other humans you have to learn from losing to become a Champion. For the dumb among us Max was given that Championship he didn't win it.
Firstly, I think Mercedes would have both cars on the podium. Lewis would have won and he made sure by overtaking George Russell on track getting the first pit stop because Russell was his only threat on track. Mercedes has McLean covered for first place by driver per driver, pit board to pit board, tyre for tyre.
@@jamesjustin6819 name me one other driver in the history of F1 that had car which finished top3 in constructors for every single season in his career and I will agree with you. The guy also drove constructors winning cars for more than half of his career. I'm not denying Lewis's talent, he is one of the best, but " GOAT" in F1 cannot be measured in statistics only as the car plays a huge part in that. For me it's Schumacher, but that is my opinion, and not necessarily for his stats but for his impact. He made Ferrari a dominant force, a team that didnt win anything for 20 years before him, he was the catalyst, he knew how to lead a team, everyone at Ferrari loved him and followed him. Also he could squeeze every little bit of performance from the car, even if the car was a tractor. You want to see a GOAT? Watch Spain 1996 and see how he made a car 1 second slower than the Williams in the dry go 4 seconds faster in the wet.
As long as a driver can still have his performance support to show his absolute best, he is in his prime. It doesn't matter whether he is 20ish, 30ish, 40ish, or even 50ish. F1 racing isn't Tennis, athletic or football. A tennis player, an athletic and a footballer’s drive come from himself. Meanwhile, a driver/a rider drive’s come from the cars/bikes set by the engineers.
Cult white supremacist like you who call yourselves f1 fans ..where people like you lot spend your time hating and demeaning Lewis daily on every single F1 post ..GFY you clown..
This is not rocket science... If im riding a push bike and you are driving a Bentley, are you wash if you didnt win the race with the push bike ? Its all wishful Thinking by the evil ones! If Sir Lewis walk on water he would still be wished for the evil ones 😂..
I don’t think we can have a definitive goat in f1. Due to all the differences in machinery between the beginning and now. Undoubtedly Lewis is a true legend of the sport and the most successful driver of all time.
You guys need to do your home work b4 doing these videos... lack of accuracy is sad imo... in Canada the softest tire compound was used c1-c3 in silverstone it was c3-c5 .... this is basic knowledge you guys as f1 enthusiast should know or keep a mental note of when analyzing and breaking down these races... it is apart (or should be) of the gig
I'll watch your pod for the fastidious attention to detail. Oh wait. You don't have one? You have no idea about the level of commitment required to organise, produce content, in and amongst balancing family life, so respectfully you can take your pettyfogging, sideline merchantry and nitpicking elsewhere.
You guys choose the path your on... so you guys should step up to the plate and do your due diligence on these kinds of details..... I'm not referring to knowing the rule book code for code etc.... but the tyre compound rage?? I have all the things you mentioned besides the pod cast ... and I'm not a gray beard as u would call it but that information just sticks into my brain because I love the stop and know how important those details r when analyzing it... and to badty LH did inquire about the softs not hards another case in point... if u love the sport take the time to b accurate with said details.... sorry if I offended you that wasn't my intention
@@AlanWiggins-dq3cb give some grace. We fit the podcast in around day jobs. That particular podcast was filmed at 2300hrs at night. An additional 1hr on the edit the next day. As much as we'd love to check every detail to 2 decimal places, across every cube of data, every instance, truth is it's just not possible, at that time of night after a very hard week. A bit of context for you. Credit due to Shez and Baxty for getting that pod over the line. Glass half full and all that, me. Thank you chaps
The car is competitive enough for Lewis to show his race craft this time. Max couldn't close the gap on hard tires, while Lewis was on soft with 10 laps to go. The conditions were in Max's favor. Any other driver would've fumbled.
I mean what driver other than max has more than one win right now? It’s just weird that people harped on about Lewis not winning since 2021 but are so quick to dismiss his very well earned win now. Most importantly, it seems to have lifted his spirits. I assume that’s why most people are saying he’s ‘back’. He has a boost at getting out of that emotional ditch he’s been in for a while.
However brilliant Lewis drove last race, after not winning for just shy of 1000 days, I find all the 'is he back?' discussions a bit early. All the fanboys going 'see, he's the goat!!' immediately. We'll, relax relax, let's see how the rest of the season goes alright? So far Russel has been doing better this season.
Fastest cars: 1. McLaren (but they screwed over the driver that can actually drive under changing circumstances). 2. Mercedes (not as fast as McLaren, but clearly second) 3. Red Bull/ Ferrari (Charles had a bad weekend, but at moments Sainz was faster than Max) 5 or the rest...don't care. McLaren screwed over themselves and changing circumstances it'll always end up as a fight between the best drivers. Which Max clearly won though he didn't end up first. But being the only one to call his pitstops to a T and go out with the best tire as it was available every time made his drive in a clearly worse car than the Mercedes absolutely stand out. Then again, highest props to Lewis for in the end still pulling it of. Partly that last lap he might have left the throttle alone for a bit, but his tires were probably clipping or close to that moment. So to then do it after all this time...well done.
You have to remember lando needs to learn to improve his game and if lando doesn't try a move to overtake how will he learn against top tier driver's. Imagine if that overtake move was successful we all will be saying what a great move right. Need to master his craft but now driver's championship is out of reach due to inexperience but Mclaren for the construction championship yes if they get there house in order.
I can't believe this is still a conversation. Hamilton was never the goat. He's top 3 at best and quite honestly, he's never been any more than that. Verstappen is better than Lewis in ever single respect except Stats. So bored of the biased fans.
Why haven't I heard anyone asking if the suggestion lewis said he gave the team in 2022 was the reason he is leaving and if that suggestion is what they are currently using?
Lets be real Lando bottled it, he didn't even have fresh softs to go on to and he still took the gamble, At least Lewis had a Brand New set of softs so it was worth the gamble for him.
Since Cameron refers to Hamilton's future teammate as "the modern day Jean Alesi", it's only fair to refer to Lando Norris as "the modern day Pastor Maldonado". What's sauce for the goose... ;)
Mr May was there to promote the F1 film, getting paid to be there. Talking to a British audience about a film u need to make money is a must without saying u must. Mr May has hit an own goal there.
Lewis and Shumy are both goats to me. Their wins, poles and championships are just too much to handle. They are the both drivers that have been able to win under different cars. Different regulations. They are the LeBron James and Michael Jordan of F1. I see Max and Vettel like Shaq for their level of dominance in a short period of time. Max hasn't won under 2026 regulations neither in another car. Vettel couldn't beat Lewis under Ferrari. Max has to do it outside the RB 20 for me to push him up there with Lewis and Shumy. Fernando Alonso knows it was important to win elsewhere outside of Renault. He found out the hard way that is a league of a different animal. Lets remember Lewis joined McLaren and they were 4th on the grid. When he joined Mercedes they were fifth on the grid. Lewis and Shumy just have a different level of understanding of a F1 car and track. Just another level.
Congratulations, you know how to count. In f1, statistics are hardly representative of talent. In terms of raw talent, Senna and Verstappen are beyond both Schumi and Hamilton.
@@roshankr8692 dude wtf is your problem you need help. Is my opinion you don't need to be sarcastic nor rude. Who gives a Flying sewer F if I compare F1 to basketball. Is my opinion. I said what I said in speaking in "reference". I'll give you a hint smart ass. Look at the title of the video. Then you go and at me a second time lol. I swear. I'll give you your food narcissist 🤷🏾♂️. You got my attention. F1 = A Sport based on the idea that racing drivers compete against each other for wins Basketball= A Sport in which athletes that play basketball. Compete against each other to become champions. Hint, both sports have goats based on the major of logical ppl. NOT YOUU. YOU ARE A MAXIE FAN BOY IF THIS REPLY IS TO YOU? Now for the final exam. Fing 🤡. How am I wrong for referencing a goat reference among two sports? Mr sewer water?
@@roshankr8692 raw talent r you fkin blind. Max Verstappen has been consistent in the fastest car the last three years. I saw Vettel do the same. Max has never won outside or Red Bull. Or these regulations neither. Max is 8th in crash rate with drivers with at least 200 gps. While still tied in number 1 with lowest. Lewis won for McLaren a team that was forth on the grid the year he did it. Joined Mercedes while they were in fifth. 7 tittle among two teams and 9 constructers among two teams. Before Honda introduced in 2019. Max VERSTAPPEN LOST TO DANNY RICCARDO TWO OUT OF THE THREE YEARS THEY WERE TOGETHER. MAX DOES NOT HAVE RACE CRAFT TO EVEN BE TALKING AMONG GOAT. THE MOMENT A CAR IS NEAR HIM HE GOES MAXIE 😡AND CRASHES. TELL MAXIE TO DO IT IN 2026 UNDER FORD ENGINE. OR TO WIN A CUP IN ANOTHER TEAM. THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT LEWIS AND SHUMMY.
@@josegrullon024 McLaren had the best car in 2007, no one is crazy enough to say otherwise, no matter where they finished the year before. Mercedes had the 2nd best car in 2013 and had everything put in place for 2014 change of regs, their dominant engine was already developed way before Lewis even joined the team. Before 2014 they were just working on their chassis and aero while progressing every single year, its normal for a new team like Mercedes was in 2010, no team starts dominating as soon as they join the grid . Stop inventing narratives. Max already has titles won in 2 different set of regs and had the most dominant season ever in the history of F1 without having the most dominant car ever if you check the data, deltas and gaps to the rest of the grid. Merc had more dominant cars in 2014-2016 and 2020. To say he "needs" to do it outside RB20 again, you are minimising his merits, this current Red Bull car hasnt been the fastest since China yet he still has the most wins and points in the last 6-7 races. At Silverstone the RB20 was 3 tenths slower than the Merc and McLaren while being on the same tyre as them. And Lewis might have a bit of an advantage when it comes to stats but otherwise he is nowhere near Michael who won titles with 3 different engine manufacturers and made Ferrari dominant, a team that hasnt won anything in 20 years at that time. Also name me a better performance on a wet track that Spain 1996. In a car Eddie Irvine was afraid to drive for how unstable it was, 1 second slower than the Williams on the dry, Michael was going 4 seconds faster in the rain. That is GOAT level! Even Toto Wolff when he was asked back in 2020 the F1 GOAT is he said that no matter how many races and titles Lewis will win, Michael will always be the greatest. I get what you are doing, minimising Max and overrating Lewis but you can only fool newbies and DTS fans with this approach.
who cares really, the goats deliver with the best car, lando and the mclaren is the fastest car on every track, its easier having the faster car but delivering with it is different and he has for many years, greatness is achieved through success and longevity
THE GOAT of all time with a car dominant for 8 years. That contributed a lot. See how long RBR was dominant. 2022 till few months ago. So THE GOAT is very subjective.
Lewis never left , his opportunities to win had. The more time passed the more he feared he would fail to recognize the opportunity and let it it pass him by. That's why the telief was so palpable. Not His ability to win was in doubt but his ability to recognize the opportunity because for all intents and purposes winning with Ferrari is not a given.
It is relief, redemption and confidence restored at the perfect place for Lewis.
When Mercedes is at the top of the leader's board by the end of final practice,
Everybody should know by then that the car was performing at the year 2020 levels.
Qualifying and the activities that accompanied qualifying established this P1 and P2 fact.
This means that all relevant parties need to structure some plausible explanation
As to why the second oldest at age 39, SLH, after 56 races, 945, 24 hr. periods & in the
344th F1 race of his Illustrious career will be allowed to ascended all other racers, young & old,
To the VeRy Top Step of the great and famous and historic Silverstone Motor Racing podium a record ninth time.
The man did not go anywhere. Give him a caR that cAn qualify P4 or LeSs and the man is capable of HuntING doWn the WiN$.
This is one race win after 56 races! 56!!!!! We are talking about 2% win percentage in 2.5 years guys! Not judging anything, but this is maybe going a bit out control!
Lewis is the goat! Didn’t have a father who was a former racing driver who gave him the best karts growing up. Meanwhile Lewis’s dad did four jobs, he’s obviously the GOAT!
Cameron's take on Charles Leclerc is completely misguided. He says "why does he not learn from Carlos Sainz?". Leclerc is still ahead of Sainz in the driver's championship!
There is a reason why Ferrari is keeping Leclerc and his pace advantage is only part of that. Leclerc serves the team even if it doesn't make him look good like testing the upgrade this past Friday even after Ferrari decided against using it but needed data to fix and improve it for the future. Leclerc came to qualifying having spent most of Practice on a different car.
Still ahead, barely. Having driven one more race than Carlos. What are we doing here? Not even comparing apples with apples
Hamilton has never been gone, Merc was off the pace for 2 & 1/2 seasons & seems to be against his full pace in 2024 to help Russell appear better. Lots of proof out there & many with their heads in the sand.
Schumacher's 96 and 97 Ferrari's were way off the pace. Alonso's 2010-2013 Ferraris were worse than Hamilton's McLaren. Alonso's Alpine at Hungary 2021 was significantly slower than the Mercedes.
@richy69ify ferrari had better reliability than mclaren in those years. Remember why lewis left mclaren for merc in the first place
@richy69ify Also, hungary is second only to monaco in terms of the hardest track to overtake. So defending against a faster car in Hungary is relatively easy.
@@richy69ifyand let me remind you of 2007, where a rookie, hamilton, finished ahead of a 2x WDC Alonso in the same car 🙏👍
The higher a driver ceiling, the longer his top-level competitiveness longevity. Let's say there is the GOAT driver in F1 his talent, skill, and technique are in full bars. This driver will beat any drivers in any generations as long as he still has full support for his talent and skill the like of energy, movement capacity, spatial awareness, reaction times, and etc.
The closer a driver to the GOAT level the harder for any drivers to beat him. Hamilton is certainly one of the closest to if not the one only
@@madjayax731 So obviously I rate Lewis very highly and as one of the Mount Rushmore all time greats.
The margins between the all time greats that exist currently on the grid is fine margins but they do exist.
They all have very few weakness but in the case of Alonso his qualifying would be one of his weaker attributes. In the the case of Lewis he is not very good in adapting to a car and making the necessary adjustments to optimise an uncompetitive car to make it more efficient to drive. All the major rule regulations that happened in 2009, 2022 Lewis found it very challenging to get the best out of a car, or should I say to out-perform it. After in 2014 the Mercedes was an absolute monster and had a massive advantage over the rest of the field. Max doesn’t have any significant weaknesses and it’s his strong bulletproof mental capacity that makes Max such a force to be reckoned with.
Wins one race in 3 years; 'hes the goat'! Calm down, like all great drivers, he was able to put it all together one more time. That in and of itself, while awesome to see, has no long term bearing on his standing amongs the greats, but not above them.
With your first argument you are wrong,none of the other greats have ever win a grand prix after 300 race but hamilton
@ricardoarguelles6706 You misspelled joke there, bud!
I think Lewis's longevity is a result of many factors, his superb talent, his strong mental fortitude, his extremely healthy lifestyle, his ability to switch off and delve into various hobbies when off the track, his understanding of the platform he's been given and wanting to use it for as long a possible for the good of others, his priority placed on family and friends even in the midst of a crazy schedule, what else can I say. He's not perfect by any means, he has his failings too, but he's definitely one of the most well-rounded sportspeople I've ever seen. Even if Ferrari isn't that great now, I think Lewis is going to help them up a few steps from where they are now and it will go well for him there.
Lewis Hamilton is a fantastic driver but won his greatest achievements with a car built with an unlimited R&D budget with a majority of his overtakes on straights. Haven’t seen him perform like the GOAT people claim him to be with a mediocre car or perform any breathtaking races like max did in Brazil during the rain with sub par machinery. He’s yet to earn that title in my eyes. Right place at the right time.
Watch him in the rain 😂
You are right, they call him the goat when they speak about most accomplished driver. I have less often see people mention senna, schumacher, prost with lewis in one sentence when they speak about talent and skills. Lewis has alot of skills, but at those level? I don't see it.
@@virgilma6153 Prost was underrated for sure. It didn't help him much that the FIA president in that days was a French guy as well, implicitly making it look like Prost was handed to him all things. In the end Prost did a really good job pulling his weight and dealing with Senna. On raw talent Lewis was never the goat...not even close.
Remind me of the time Michael Schumacher or Senna won in cars that were not the best and did not have unlimited budgets. The worst car Schumacher ever won in was his first Benneton. Which still won 8 races and had 12 podiums in 1994 and had 11 wins and won the constructor's championship in 1995. And then he had his run of monstrous Ferraris.
Ayrton Senna's MP4/4 won 15 of the 16 races in 1988. The MP4/5B was probably the worst car he drove in the midst of his championships and it still won the constructor's championship, as did the MP4/6. Yet no one had any trouble calling them the GOAT. That is such a dented argument.
He's done all of that, but they don't show them on the official F1 races. Good quality overtakes without crashing, insane wet race pace (faster than Max on most occasions) and everything. And if you want crazy divebombs and risky moves, you can go see young Lewis doing them in subpar McLarens. The thing is he's been in F1 for so long that people's opinion of him depends on how long they've been watching F1. That fantastic racecraft of his for which other drivers get hyped too much is not shown much cus it's expected of him. That's the price you pay for being number 1 for so long.
The more that watch the silverstone race the more that you see that as long as Lewis and Max have a fast car nobody else on the grid have a chance to win. I thought that the difference between Lewis and Max and the rest of the grid was close but after watching the silveratone race now a few times it’s clear that it’s not even close . It’s simply Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstapen and everybody else the rest of those aren’t even close to those two.
Goat. Maybe. Lewis had a bigger car advantage than Max ever did. So goat? Maybe. Stating goat so forcefully sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself. Oh Baxty
Remember Lewis won a title in 2008 and almost in 2007 when Fernando was the defending WDC and Lewis had never raced a F1 car. Max has only had stiffs for teammates and they resign Checo because does not want pressure from someone who might be as fast as he is.
Also red bull on current form seem to be actively ignoring any decent drivers to partner max and are scraping the barrel suggesting DR might get another crack at it.
Yeah Baxty hand-washes his Union Jack thongs in water from the royal founrtain at Buckingham Palace - NO HOPE of truth or objectivity from him- poorly-disguised Max-hater 🤡 can't drink that Baxty Kool-Aid ... pure poison ☠
Lewis just missed winning the title in his first season in F1 by a single point in 2007 against Kimi raikkonen a seasoned pro and went to win it in only his second season in 2008 with the mcLAREN which was way below the Ferrari's at time,Where did Max finished in his first two seasons? Your short memories amaze me at least he's won it with two different teams whereas max has only done it with redbull same as Vettel
Now your all change back to Lewis?? Wrf?
First Max now Lewis...I'm so tired of this BS .
Lewis can still do it... With a car 3 tenths faster than Max like Mercedes and McLaren were at Silverstone. Max was only in contention for the win only due to great tyre choice for his last stint, he could push while other managed. That RB20 was mediocre in Silverstone and hasnt been the fastest car since China. Put some respect on Max Verstappen's name please! 😁
Cameron I will say Lewis won the race. I will say this the race is made up of driving and strategy especially when the race is close as it has been in recent time but like when max was really dominating is strategy was not so much needed cause he was out in front but like Sunday’s race you could have fast car even faster than the other but if you muck up your strategy you lose the race
Guys I love how Lewis had people making excuses as a kid starting next to the reigning n defending n double world champion alonso 🤣2007 made me giggle and max is so great because he’s cut his teeth racing Lewis full stop 💯✊
You know what I love about this podcast Cameron??? You all give each other a chance to speak!!! I love it. I love that everyone usually waits for everyone else to finish their thoughts! I think there was only one time someone interrupted another person and it seemed for a valid reason. (You don't want to rule out healthy discourse either). I hate it when people talk over each other in these types of scenarios, it makes it so hard to follow and usually there are unfinished bits and pieces everywhere. You are such a good interviewer and moderator and I love your honesty and acceptance of when the others don't agree with your thoughts, lol, and without being offended. I don't necessarily agree with everything that was said but, this is one of the best and most constructive discussions I've heard on UA-cam in a long time. I also like that you had several well planned points of discussion but you were willing to delve into the Charles topic a bit further when it looked like that needed more discussion. Homework done but also flexible with the program. Great stuff, man! Respect!
3..2..1.. CRINGE, OUCH!
Backstreet say "GOAT" so forcefully they almost tricked themself into believing it. Oh, Backstreet, I hope you feel better soon.
There SLH then there is the 2x cheater
The definition of A goat ? The past Senna and now max never had 8 years long a super dominant car like mercedes had otherwise they had also already 7 titles
Lewis hater
@@bonym371ah this response make sense🤣🤣🤣🤣😄
Just stupid logic isn’t it.
Only the BRITISH media is trying to diminish Max. Only the British media does this. Tbh Max is way and way better then Lewis who is exposed and exposed again, losing from teammates, been out qualified by ratio. Lewis is so entirely overhyped as a driver, the only excuse they bring up is his titles and racewins records after driving 100 years in F1 with car that had 150bph more then the rest of the field, but his driver skills arent goat material. Lewis career before F1 is so far off compared to Max its unbelievable its never mentioned by bias SKY Hamilton channel.. Lewis is a choirboy before F1 compared to Max. Poor, "no money" story, with his dad bs? No, Lewis had financial backup from Ron Dennis from the age of 12. Rainmaster..? well, Button ALWAYS won from Lewis when wet conditions, Button is not considered a rainmaster... so what is Lewis is then?? You got to f kidding me, hello British media you are making a complete utter joke of yourself..
I'm just going to select one of the points you made to show you're full of it.
Pre f1 career.... lewis was already a GP world champion before coming into f1. Max wasn't. So yeah, far off, but not in the way you say
@@Mohawk_Racing
Record win ratio (Max with only 1 dominant car , Lewis with 10 dominant cars)
1. Fangio 47.06%
2. Ascari 40.6%
3. Clark 34.72%
4. Verstappen 30%
🧡
@@richy69ify 1 vs 10 dominant cars? Exaggerate much? 😂 tell you what, f1 fans used to be intelligent, and respect all drives. Those days are far behind us aren't they
@@bobkeul7682 Only one person here making an utter joke of themselves Bob.
Honestly, do yourself a favour. Ignore anyone who doesn’t think Max is an amazing driver, they know nothing about F1 as are those who say the same about Lewis (clue: that’s you)
No, I genuinely hope you enjoy your guy winning for as long as it lasts as when that stops we both know Max will retire from F1 and move onto another race series, the Orange Army will be disbanded and they’ll go back to whatever farmers league football stand they came from, Zandvoort will go back to the sand swept relic it was before Max won his first WDC and the Netherlands will still have never had a Dutch born driver win an F1 race much less a world championship.
In my opinion, Lewis never really left. While personal confidence can fluctuate, he's still driving as well as he did from his GP2 days. When the car is competitive, his talent is evident. The issue is, we’ve been in the Verstappen era, so many, especially newer fans from my humble observation, might have overlooked Hamilton because of Max's success. Charles is experiencing something similar; he's driving well, but his car and team are not allowing him to fully showcase his potential. Verstappen's exceptional driving, strong car and great team make the gap seem larger than it is.
Rather than a return, I think Hamilton’s recent win should be a reminder of his skill and ability to run at the front given a competitive car.
Given a competitive car, it’s Lewis and Max with Charles somewhere behind these two. In my opinion.
Canada was not the softs, it was the mediums, they put him on the opposite strat to Gorge. GR went Hard > M
Lewis they went M hard and they shouldn't have boxed him. He was on Mediums for 10 laps where as Norris/Vers took the Mediums to race end.
The british win will ignite him for more wins
IDK about Fangio or Clark, but
Hamilton is not better than Senna, Schumacher, or Verstappen.
We should in the interest of accuracy point out the fact that Verstappen lost the 2021 Title even though he had the fastest car because like every other humans you have to learn from losing to become a Champion. For the dumb among us Max was given that Championship he didn't win it.
Total rubbish you fool. He lost 3 races through no fault of his own eg Baku , Bottas in Hungry , Lewis at Silverstone. Don't remember those do you !!!
Firstly, I think Mercedes would have both cars on the podium. Lewis would have won and he made sure by overtaking George Russell on track getting the first pit stop because Russell was his only threat on track. Mercedes has McLean covered for first place by driver per driver, pit board to pit board, tyre for tyre.
I stopped at Baxty saying " The GOAT" 😂
Lewis is the GOAT👍
Name me one driver that has been at the top and as good as he has 18 seasons. He's clear.
@@jamesjustin6819 name me one other driver in the history of F1 that had car which finished top3 in constructors for every single season in his career and I will agree with you. The guy also drove constructors winning cars for more than half of his career. I'm not denying Lewis's talent, he is one of the best, but " GOAT" in F1 cannot be measured in statistics only as the car plays a huge part in that. For me it's Schumacher, but that is my opinion, and not necessarily for his stats but for his impact. He made Ferrari a dominant force, a team that didnt win anything for 20 years before him, he was the catalyst, he knew how to lead a team, everyone at Ferrari loved him and followed him. Also he could squeeze every little bit of performance from the car, even if the car was a tractor. You want to see a GOAT? Watch Spain 1996 and see how he made a car 1 second slower than the Williams in the dry go 4 seconds faster in the wet.
@@madalinbpopahere you are again waffling about Lewis.
Yep same here.
As long as a driver can still have his performance support to show his absolute best, he is in his prime. It doesn't matter whether he is 20ish, 30ish, 40ish, or even 50ish. F1 racing isn't Tennis, athletic or football. A tennis player, an athletic and a footballer’s drive come from himself. Meanwhile, a driver/a rider drive’s come from the cars/bikes set by the engineers.
Never forget the abuse CultLH sent Mercedes/Toto Wolff's way.
that goes both ways now people are getting back at lewis and his fans
Cult white supremacist like you who call yourselves f1 fans ..where people like you lot spend your time hating and demeaning Lewis daily on every single F1 post ..GFY you clown..
Depends what we mean by back. Is Hamilton still on it? Sure. Is he going to compete with Max? No.
Sprint calendar is criminally bad how come we haven’t gotten a sprint race at Bahrain on the outer layout
Lewis Hamilton was always there, even after amassing 103 wins he gets emotional for 104,yes what is back is that rubbish Mercedes race car,...
This is not rocket science... If im riding a push bike and you are driving a Bentley, are you wash if you didnt win the race with the push bike ? Its all wishful Thinking by the evil ones! If Sir Lewis walk on water he would still be wished for the evil ones 😂..
I don’t think we can have a definitive goat in f1. Due to all the differences in machinery between the beginning and now. Undoubtedly Lewis is a true legend of the sport and the most successful driver of all time.
Did Max have a competitive car throughout all these these seasons? Did Lewis have a competitive car throughout these Seasons?
When Lando is performing at a Max/Lewis level then he lost it, he isn't there yet though so he just didn't win it
You guys need to do your home work b4 doing these videos... lack of accuracy is sad imo... in Canada the softest tire compound was used c1-c3 in silverstone it was c3-c5 .... this is basic knowledge you guys as f1 enthusiast should know or keep a mental note of when analyzing and breaking down these races... it is apart (or should be) of the gig
I'll watch your pod for the fastidious attention to detail. Oh wait. You don't have one?
You have no idea about the level of commitment required to organise, produce content, in and amongst balancing family life, so respectfully you can take your pettyfogging, sideline merchantry and nitpicking elsewhere.
You guys choose the path your on... so you guys should step up to the plate and do your due diligence on these kinds of details..... I'm not referring to knowing the rule book code for code etc.... but the tyre compound rage?? I have all the things you mentioned besides the pod cast ... and I'm not a gray beard as u would call it but that information just sticks into my brain because I love the stop and know how important those details r when analyzing it... and to badty LH did inquire about the softs not hards another case in point... if u love the sport take the time to b accurate with said details.... sorry if I offended you that wasn't my intention
@@AlanWiggins-dq3cb give some grace. We fit the podcast in around day jobs. That particular podcast was filmed at 2300hrs at night. An additional 1hr on the edit the next day. As much as we'd love to check every detail to 2 decimal places, across every cube of data, every instance, truth is it's just not possible, at that time of night after a very hard week. A bit of context for you. Credit due to Shez and Baxty for getting that pod over the line. Glass half full and all that, me. Thank you chaps
@@Cameron-Cc noted
@@Cameron-Cc 😂
Right. That’s it for me. The annoyance of watching this one character on this podcast. Nope.
He is back...1 win?!?
just wait… 😁
The car is competitive enough for Lewis to show his race craft this time. Max couldn't close the gap on hard tires, while Lewis was on soft with 10 laps to go. The conditions were in Max's favor. Any other driver would've fumbled.
@@Fontanat I agree with that
I mean what driver other than max has more than one win right now? It’s just weird that people harped on about Lewis not winning since 2021 but are so quick to dismiss his very well earned win now. Most importantly, it seems to have lifted his spirits. I assume that’s why most people are saying he’s ‘back’. He has a boost at getting out of that emotional ditch he’s been in for a while.
@@notaspeck6104 right...just think it might be a bit early to claim "He's Back!!"
i can already tell this will be good
However brilliant Lewis drove last race, after not winning for just shy of 1000 days, I find all the 'is he back?' discussions a bit early. All the fanboys going 'see, he's the goat!!' immediately. We'll, relax relax, let's see how the rest of the season goes alright? So far Russel has been doing better this season.
Fastest cars: 1. McLaren (but they screwed over the driver that can actually drive under changing circumstances).
2. Mercedes (not as fast as McLaren, but clearly second)
3. Red Bull/ Ferrari (Charles had a bad weekend, but at moments Sainz was faster than Max)
5 or the rest...don't care.
McLaren screwed over themselves and changing circumstances it'll always end up as a fight between the best drivers. Which Max clearly won though he didn't end up first. But being the only one to call his pitstops to a T and go out with the best tire as it was available every time made his drive in a clearly worse car than the Mercedes absolutely stand out.
Then again, highest props to Lewis for in the end still pulling it of. Partly that last lap he might have left the throttle alone for a bit, but his tires were probably clipping or close to that moment. So to then do it after all this time...well done.
You have to remember lando needs to learn to improve his game and if lando doesn't try a move to overtake how will he learn against top tier driver's. Imagine if that overtake move was successful we all will be saying what a great move right. Need to master his craft but now driver's championship is out of reach due to inexperience but Mclaren for the construction championship yes if they get there house in order.
Omg b.s. to the Max
Could’er should’er would’er that’s like a woman saying I was almost pregnant. He who crosses the finish line 1st wins the race. That was LH44 ❤
I can't believe this is still a conversation. Hamilton was never the goat. He's top 3 at best and quite honestly, he's never been any more than that. Verstappen is better than Lewis in ever single respect except Stats. So bored of the biased fans.
I'm sure I've heard that Lando's softs were a scrubbed set. Could have been why they went off the boil quickly.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤WE LOVE YOU LEWIS
Can't touch this
Why haven't I heard anyone asking if the suggestion lewis said he gave the team in 2022 was the reason he is leaving and if that suggestion is what they are currently using?
He never left!
no one's talking about the "used" soft tires that Lewis managed for his last stint. Everyone thought it's a "new" set of soft tires.
Lets be real Lando bottled it, he didn't even have fresh softs to go on to and he still took the gamble, At least Lewis had a Brand New set of softs so it was worth the gamble for him.
Since Cameron refers to Hamilton's future teammate as "the modern day Jean Alesi", it's only fair to refer to Lando Norris as "the modern day Pastor Maldonado". What's sauce for the goose... ;)
Lewis's softs were used also
Lewis took a pair of softs the amount of laps he did at Silverstone. Real fans understand the true awesomeness of that feat
17:20 - and there's Alonso, admittedly with an uncompetitive car
I envy the guys who can cry ….all I got was a small lump under my throat
The softs at Silverstone (C3) where the hards at Canada
You guys be like: Blah, blah, blah…😂⛹🏽♂️Sir Lewis is the greatest. Stop hating…😎😂
I don't understand. But I really want to
😂😂😂😂😂
Mr May was there to promote the F1 film, getting paid to be there. Talking to a British audience about a film u need to make money is a must without saying u must. Mr May has hit an own goal there.
Very well said
It's Bryan May.. his nothing..he had some cheek..Freddie made queen..the rest are nothing
Hamilton wanted the softs
Lewis and Shumy are both goats to me. Their wins, poles and championships are just too much to handle. They are the both drivers that have been able to win under different cars. Different regulations. They are the LeBron James and Michael Jordan of F1. I see Max and Vettel like Shaq for their level of dominance in a short period of time. Max hasn't won under 2026 regulations neither in another car. Vettel couldn't beat Lewis under Ferrari. Max has to do it outside the RB 20 for me to push him up there with Lewis and Shumy. Fernando Alonso knows it was important to win elsewhere outside of Renault. He found out the hard way that is a league of a different animal. Lets remember Lewis joined McLaren and they were 4th on the grid. When he joined Mercedes they were fifth on the grid. Lewis and Shumy just have a different level of understanding of a F1 car and track. Just another level.
Congratulations, you know how to count. In f1, statistics are hardly representative of talent. In terms of raw talent, Senna and Verstappen are beyond both Schumi and Hamilton.
@@roshankr8692 dude wtf is your problem you need help. Is my opinion you don't need to be sarcastic nor rude. Who gives a Flying sewer F if I compare F1 to basketball. Is my opinion. I said what I said in speaking in "reference". I'll give you a hint smart ass. Look at the title of the video. Then you go and at me a second time lol. I swear. I'll give you your food narcissist 🤷🏾♂️. You got my attention.
F1 = A Sport based on the idea that racing drivers compete against each other for wins
Basketball= A Sport in which athletes that play basketball. Compete against each other to become champions.
Hint, both sports have goats based on the major of logical ppl. NOT YOUU. YOU ARE A MAXIE FAN BOY IF THIS REPLY IS TO YOU?
Now for the final exam. Fing 🤡. How am I wrong for referencing a goat reference among two sports? Mr sewer water?
@@roshankr8692 raw talent r you fkin blind. Max Verstappen has been consistent in the fastest car the last three years. I saw Vettel do the same. Max has never won outside or Red Bull. Or these regulations neither. Max is 8th in crash rate with drivers with at least 200 gps. While still tied in number 1 with lowest. Lewis won for McLaren a team that was forth on the grid the year he did it. Joined Mercedes while they were in fifth. 7 tittle among two teams and 9 constructers among two teams. Before Honda introduced in 2019. Max VERSTAPPEN LOST TO DANNY RICCARDO TWO OUT OF THE THREE YEARS THEY WERE TOGETHER. MAX DOES NOT HAVE RACE CRAFT TO EVEN BE TALKING AMONG GOAT. THE MOMENT A CAR IS NEAR HIM HE GOES MAXIE 😡AND CRASHES. TELL MAXIE TO DO IT IN 2026 UNDER FORD ENGINE. OR TO WIN A CUP IN ANOTHER TEAM. THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT LEWIS AND SHUMMY.
Lewis and Schumi are only greats because Senna died being greater than either.
@@josegrullon024 McLaren had the best car in 2007, no one is crazy enough to say otherwise, no matter where they finished the year before. Mercedes had the 2nd best car in 2013 and had everything put in place for 2014 change of regs, their dominant engine was already developed way before Lewis even joined the team. Before 2014 they were just working on their chassis and aero while progressing every single year, its normal for a new team like Mercedes was in 2010, no team starts dominating as soon as they join the grid . Stop inventing narratives.
Max already has titles won in 2 different set of regs and had the most dominant season ever in the history of F1 without having the most dominant car ever if you check the data, deltas and gaps to the rest of the grid. Merc had more dominant cars in 2014-2016 and 2020. To say he "needs" to do it outside RB20 again, you are minimising his merits, this current Red Bull car hasnt been the fastest since China yet he still has the most wins and points in the last 6-7 races. At Silverstone the RB20 was 3 tenths slower than the Merc and McLaren while being on the same tyre as them.
And Lewis might have a bit of an advantage when it comes to stats but otherwise he is nowhere near Michael who won titles with 3 different engine manufacturers and made Ferrari dominant, a team that hasnt won anything in 20 years at that time. Also name me a better performance on a wet track that Spain 1996. In a car Eddie Irvine was afraid to drive for how unstable it was, 1 second slower than the Williams on the dry, Michael was going 4 seconds faster in the rain. That is GOAT level! Even Toto Wolff when he was asked back in 2020 the F1 GOAT is he said that no matter how many races and titles Lewis will win, Michael will always be the greatest. I get what you are doing, minimising Max and overrating Lewis but you can only fool newbies and DTS fans with this approach.
😂 lmfao
He is back until he gets to Ferrari and mistakes incompetence for SaBoTaGe
Until Sunday Lewis hadn't won with equal power units since 2013 where he won a single race all season.
who cares really, the goats deliver with the best car, lando and the mclaren is the fastest car on every track, its easier having the faster car but delivering with it is different and he has for many years, greatness is achieved through success and longevity
The GOAT does not exist, you cannot compare across eras. Senna is probably the greatest driver ever but never had a car that dominated for 8 years…
Very good point. Very very well made 🍻
Senna was outqualified by a rookie Hakkinen and was jumping from team to team in search of the fastest car.
Jimmy Clark was the greatest and died when he was 32!
Even Alexa knows it's Sir Lewis Carl Davidson Hamilton 44
Who's Jim cark?
Lewis is the GOAT
25:59 100% Cameron!
Right JSAC?
I dunno why people think these statements are controversial even!
THE GOAT of all time with a car dominant for 8 years. That contributed a lot. See how long RBR was dominant. 2022 till few months ago. So THE GOAT is very subjective.