Thank you very much for these videos. These are the first resources I've seen that explain grape training and pruning in a totally unambiguous way. Most resources I've seen don't even mention the fact that there are multiple systems, leaving me confused with all of the (seemingly) contradictory information out there. Many resources also don't have good diagrams, and attempt to explain it with text or with video that is shot so close to the plant that you can't really see what's going on.
I've never heard the term "Kniffin" training system. In Australia we call it the 2 wire vertical trellis. It has some advantages in the short term but there are critical aspects as to why it is not a sustainable long term approach to growing wine grapes in high vigour potential sites.The problems start in the distance between the top and bottom cordon. The closer they are the worse the vines will perform due to shading out. In my experience permanent cordons need to be 1m apart to have any hope of long term production from both cordons. As vines are apical dominant plants, the top cordon outgrows the bottom and after a few years eventually the bottom cordon loses fertility due to shading. More shading increases vegetative growth and further reduces fertility. The result is also a difference in sugar and phenolics between the top and bottom cordon. So, for any given variety you can have up to 1 or more baume difference with the fruit on the bottom cordon less ripe with lower phenolics and higher pH resulting in lesser quality fruit than the top wire. In short, if the vine is vigorous due to the soil type and rainfall, plant further apart and allow for more fruit per vine. Scott Henry works ok but is incredibly expensive to install and manage. I use the ballerina system for my bigger vines pruned to 4 x 10 -12 bud canes on two wires as per the "Kniffin" trellis. The top canes vertical and the lower canes allowed to sprawl. Shiraz planting density 3m rows x 2.4m vine spacing or 1388 vines/ha, non irrigated vineyard produces 2.5 - 3.5 ton/acre annually of exceptional fruit that ends up in Penfold's top end wines.
Omg I'm in Perth wanting to grow some grapes....I have no friggen idea....I'm in the process of getting some wires in between 4 heavy wooden posts, which is at a height of a regular fence we have here in oz... I was just going to do the 4 arm....wanted to get a seedles type grape...omg, I should have spent more time paying attention to my father in his vineyard in Croatia :(
Can you maybe start creating videos? I'd love to learn more about the different types of systems that work best for the different types of grapes. It would be much appreciated 🙂
You should have called yourself bluebragger. Most of us here are just back yard growers looking for basic information to get our vines to grow and produce a decent harvest. The first video did an excellent job of explaining what and how and was exactly what most people were looking for.
Excellent video! Very informative. Great job of explaining what your doing and how to do it.I'm growing jupiter grapes, I'll try the trick you've tried ,greetings from Kalimantan, Indonesia
Ok, so I bought this property that had A old grapevine that still produces grapes But not the grapes we would eat as their grapes are sour. The previous own past away so there is no way to find out what kind it is. My husband wants to graft eatable vine to the mother branch. I'm sure that should work out. Part of me loves the look of the 4 arm grapevines design but whenever I remember my mother in laws grapevine draped over the wire trellis that we sat under in the hot Jordanian summer I would love to have that same concept here in Pa. but I'm not sure if the grapevines I have would give me the same design or if it even matters.
OK so now I am confused. Is it a good system or not and can it be transitioned to another more widely used system that is better for a longer time frame. You say it is not widely used for various reasons but do not say what is a preferred newer growing system. I am just planting new vines in a large backyard in Baja. Interesting and informative. Just left me with some questions about whether it is an outdated system or can be adapted.
Nobody in the grape world will agree on anything. Its just fine but if youre doing multiple vines down one length youll want to look up the proper ends to these so your trellis doesnt fall down in wind and weight of near ripe fruit.
Since my partially shady backyard will only give my grapes about 3 hours of strong sun in the afternoon, I cannot use a 4-Arm Kniffin Training System. I'll probably use a 2-Arm System on the top wire, though.
@@sappir26 yeah I’ve basically been through this whole thing now so I can answer it myself lol. But basically Top Wire Cordon training system, or some variant of it, is what’s typically used for commercial Concord grape growing. You can really use whatever style you like best though.
“For decades and decades and decades”. Awesome video. Really helped me understand all the methods.
That’s wonderful info! This method is perfect for backyard grapes growing like me. Thanks Tom!
Thank you very much for these videos. These are the first resources I've seen that explain grape training and pruning in a totally unambiguous way. Most resources I've seen don't even mention the fact that there are multiple systems, leaving me confused with all of the (seemingly) contradictory information out there. Many resources also don't have good diagrams, and attempt to explain it with text or with video that is shot so close to the plant that you can't really see what's going on.
I've never heard the term "Kniffin" training system. In Australia we call it the 2 wire vertical trellis. It has some advantages in the short term but there are critical aspects as to why it is not a sustainable long term approach to growing wine grapes in high vigour potential sites.The problems start in the distance between the top and bottom cordon. The closer they are the worse the vines will perform due to shading out. In my experience permanent cordons need to be 1m apart to have any hope of long term production from both cordons. As vines are apical dominant plants, the top cordon outgrows the bottom and after a few years eventually the bottom cordon loses fertility due to shading. More shading increases vegetative growth and further reduces fertility. The result is also a difference in sugar and phenolics between the top and bottom cordon. So, for any given variety you can have up to 1 or more baume difference with the fruit on the bottom cordon less ripe with lower phenolics and higher pH resulting in lesser quality fruit than the top wire. In short, if the vine is vigorous due to the soil type and rainfall, plant further apart and allow for more fruit per vine. Scott Henry works ok but is incredibly expensive to install and manage. I use the ballerina system for my bigger vines pruned to 4 x 10 -12 bud canes on two wires as per the "Kniffin" trellis. The top canes vertical and the lower canes allowed to sprawl. Shiraz planting density 3m rows x 2.4m vine spacing or 1388 vines/ha, non irrigated vineyard produces 2.5 - 3.5 ton/acre annually of exceptional fruit that ends up in Penfold's top end wines.
Omg I'm in Perth wanting to grow some grapes....I have no friggen idea....I'm in the process of getting some wires in between 4 heavy wooden posts, which is at a height of a regular fence we have here in oz... I was just going to do the 4 arm....wanted to get a seedles type grape...omg, I should have spent more time paying attention to my father in his vineyard in Croatia :(
Can you maybe start creating videos? I'd love to learn more about the different types of systems that work best for the different types of grapes. It would be much appreciated 🙂
You should have called yourself bluebragger.
Most of us here are just back yard growers looking for basic information to get our vines to grow and produce a decent harvest.
The first video did an excellent job of explaining what and how and was exactly what most people were looking for.
I'm from Tanzania, thanks for a nice lecture.
Hi,I am from Trinidad West Indies and l grow grapes in my backyard. Thank you very much for the information. Very informative.
I found this video on Grape Grower Folio - there's lots awesome videos there that will help out
Thank you for the video. I am a backyard grower so this might be the ticket.
Very very Nice beautiful Venus Gardens I like your video I'm from Bangladesh I very like Venus Gardens love you too my friend ✌️✌️👍🌹🌹🌹👌👋
Excellent, thank you very much for the procedure and the explanation.
Excellent video! Very informative. Great job of explaining what your doing and how to do it.I'm growing jupiter grapes, I'll try the trick you've tried ,greetings from Kalimantan, Indonesia
بسیار عالی ، تکمیل وکاربردی
Good tutorial
Ok, so I bought this property that had A old grapevine that still produces grapes But not the grapes we would eat as their grapes are sour. The previous own past away so there is no way to find out what kind it is. My husband wants to graft eatable vine to the mother branch. I'm sure that should work out. Part of me loves the look of the 4 arm grapevines design but whenever I remember my mother in laws grapevine draped over the wire trellis that we sat under in the hot Jordanian summer I would love to have that same concept here in Pa. but I'm not sure if the grapevines I have would give me the same design or if it even matters.
Thank you!!!
OK so now I am confused. Is it a good system or not and can it be transitioned to another more widely used system that is better for a longer time frame. You say it is not widely used for various reasons but do not say what is a preferred newer growing system. I am just planting new vines in a large backyard in Baja. Interesting and informative. Just left me with some questions about whether it is an outdated system or can be adapted.
Nobody in the grape world will agree on anything. Its just fine but if youre doing multiple vines down one length youll want to look up the proper ends to these so your trellis doesnt fall down in wind and weight of near ripe fruit.
Thanks
Since my partially shady backyard will only give my grapes about 3 hours of strong sun in the afternoon, I cannot use a 4-Arm Kniffin Training System. I'll probably use a 2-Arm System on the top wire, though.
Iam from india(kerala).thank u sir
Thank you please
Goodday sir. How do you anchor the poles? Without anchor poles in the ground. I want to
pull onto the pole itself. Thanks,Cobus🐳
What's the all around best system for Concord grapes?
Please let me know when you get an answer? I also grow concord.
@@sappir26 yeah I’ve basically been through this whole thing now so I can answer it myself lol. But basically Top Wire Cordon training system, or some variant of it, is what’s typically used for commercial Concord grape growing. You can really use whatever style you like best though.
i also do this in philippines
What system is suitable for large size vine?
I am growing Concord grapes in NY .
Which method would you recommend ?
Why do I get black spots on my grapes?
👍👍👍
Hello Tom,
I planted several marquette grape vines this spring - Would this founr arm technique work well with these?
I forgot to add - I am in northeast connecticut
I am in central CT and grow Marquette. My experience tells me that Marquette is too vigorous for this training system. Hope this advice helps!
I vill mark i Thiland
তুমি আমাকে খাওয়ার জন্য ভাল জাত কোনটি?