I literally edited my keyboard outside of the game to solve the exact keybind issue you are talking about… Keybinds are one of the most important features to get right in an RTS imo. People have VASTLY different keybind styles across the RTS community and giving us total customization should be a top priority.
I was excited to try Stormgate and so i did, guess what was one of the factors that turned me off - HOTKEYS, its insane that they did them in such a uncomfortable way, not to mention that graphics also suck, im not a fan of childish looking toys being my units. I also agree with his second point, there are no cool units at all, the game design sucks. I would be so amazed by sc zealot and archon, they are just so cool, also WC3 has alot of cool heroes, stormgate has nothing cool about its units at all. Complete lack of identity, they literally had so many space to be creative about so many things and they ended up just copying sc2, this game deserves and is doomed to fail in my opinion.
@@StewartMillarTheManCave That’s correct. It only worked because I actually like Spacebar for A- move. So since space is outside of the grid, I could just set Space to A in windows “PowerToys” with a quick toggle button at the ready. So my issue was actually just to get around the fact heat you can not have multiple keybinds for something in SG. So this was my work around for them non letting you bind specific functions within the grid OR allow a function to have multiple keybinds.
To be honest, it's absolutely shocking that Stormgate is 14 years newer than SC2. Completely diabolical, what the hell were these developers thinking? So out of touch the developers must have been in a bubble.
I feel like Stormgate is just a combination of SC2 and WC3. Despite some new mechanics (like brute split), it's like they make the game just because they want to build another competitive RTS, and they are doing this without any significant storyline.
Yes that's exactly what this game is. The worst part is that they took a lot from War3's gameplay but then kept out the hero units. Now people can see how bad War3 would be without hero units.
and unfortunately for them, a competitive scene needs to be supported by a casual playerbase, which focuses more on campaign/co-op. Basically they're forgetting that they should make a good game first, and then a competitive scene will naturally follow.
@@lilarrin1220 Knowing the current trends of gaming and today's culture, it's impossible to replicate SC1's success today. A lightning caught in a bottle can't be caught anymore.
My intuition as a programmer is that writing the code to allow the types of hotkeys you want to create should be fairly trivial. The basic idea is that the buttons on the command card should be mapped to "Actions" like "Queue a Marine". Those actions can just be defined in a large enum and you likely have less than 200 for the entire game. Then, you have a bidirectional map between buttons on your keyboard and actions. You click on the barracks, that makes a specific bidirectional map active. When you press the button T, it uses the bidirectional map that is currently active to attempt the given action.
Well... the question is why did they do grid instead of fully customizable. After all if you have customizable you can arrange a grid with it, but if you build the UI around grid how do you do customizable after that?
You are correct and let me add extra info as UE developer, this is more or less how keybinds work out of box in Unreal Engine where you have "actions" and "action mapping context" that maps these actions to physical buttons. So, it is trivial to make user-mappable actions. It shouldn't take longer than 1 week of 1 programmer and that is accounting for potential bugs and edge cases.
@@Eirenarchthe question is also why they still have it in a genre with the most picky/varied hotkey tastes, that has also had feedback since the first closed alpha that they need fully customisable hotkeys Game is not enjoyable to play for me for me, just because of how I developed my own hotkeys over years, I basically use the same keys as Stormgate but they do different things Warcraft 3 it was a pain to manually edit a text file to port my SC2 layout when I went back to that old favourite, but I COULD edit it
They have linked multiple actions on the same hotkey, it's a common dev trap to budle sections for easier handling and then "customers" like this come along and you have to "rewrite" that section. Luckily I also think it should be fairly trivial to add more keys for specific actions and split them if necesarry, but some devs might not be able to carry (psychologically) the burden of refactoring quality into quantity just to fix an "edge" case. :D
they seem to be using a 3D array but with the granularity of a 2D array. really, really stupid. thats what the "column 1:2" refers to but the mapping presumes "1:2:N" with this stupid hidden dimension all being treated equally.
Don't sugar coat, just say it how it is. People who are sensitive and get offended easily will get offended regardless of what you say or how you say it. Don't pander.
It is extremely sad that a developer would make a video game in this era and not allow people to map keybinds, R6 siege is a fantastic shooter, for YEARS! they didnt let people on console map settings, now they do, but man its incredible this isnt a very top priority add, and also VERY easy to do for a developer.
I have also an opinion that is not heared very often. My list of things that have to be improved is also very long so I just want to mention the 3 most important things for me. 1. Stormgate has things like destroyable trees so the situation on the map can change so every match can feel a bit different by which the replayability is increased and it feels less boring to play on the same map again and again. And also for viewers the watch experience feel different. Not just because of the match ups and unit compositions, but also through the changing terrain. So everything that increase the diversity and replayablility is good. Buildable, destroyable walls would be such a feature that can be destroyed like trees, but can also build anywhere on the map so the situation on the map can change even more. Walls can block ways so opponents have to find new ways or try to destroy the wall. So walls give the decision to the player where trees/walls are and the structure of the map changes dynamically through player's decisions. That change also the location of interesting attack locations and fights. So every match would feel more unique. The reason for boring long lasting games are not walls, but undestructable cliffs on almost every resource position that limits the possible ways to damage your opponent drastically and some unit designs that force that like Swarm Hosts. In Age there is no problem with boring long lasting games. In Age there are enough good tools to destroy walls fast. In my opinion walls are absolutely needed in an good rts. And the reason that in Age, WC and SC structures are used as walls shows that the concept of walls are used and needed in every rts. So Frost Giant should just implement buildable and destroyable walls for each race. With walls they can also show creativity. For example for Infernals the wall can consist of a pile of bones that can spawn zombies or other monster when you attack it. For Celestials walls can be a sort of light shield that regenerates automatically except you destroy some central structures that deliver energy and for Vanguard it can be a cool classic wall design like the GDI walls of C&C Tiberium Sun. Just to mention a few ideas. The limit is the sky. 2. The second important thing for me are procedural generated maps as an option besides hand crafted maps. Because this would not just increase the diversity and replayability even further, it also increase the skill ceiling of scouting. You not just have to scout your opponent, you also have to scout the map, where resources are, where entries to the enemies are, where your entries are, where creep camps are, where interesting locations for bases are etc. That add much more freedom of decision making and variety to the game so players have more options to express their skills. Even more game modes would be possible through that like Nomad maps from Age of Empires. By the way it is absolutely no problem to generate mirrored maps so every player have the exact same conditions. So balance is no argument here and in Age it works in the tournements without mirrored maps. 3. The third important thing is an economy that allows the player to express their skills in this topic so players can be known for a good economic player like some SC2 players are known for a good mech player. In general it would be good when players can fullfill different roles in a team. So one guy can be more the defensive guy that protect allied players, one guy can be more the aggressive player that buy time for the team and harass the eco of the opponents and an additional other player can be the booming guy that concentrate on economy for a while to be very strong later in the game. So for me it is important that different player types can find their role in an rts like players find their stereotype in games like LoL or Dota where some players like to play as a tank, others want to play a supporter and an additional guy want to play a damage dealer. Therefore it is important to add mechanics and tools that allow players to express their skills in more different ways and therefore it is important to make the systems like map generation and manipulation and or economy more complex. Adding buildable and destroyable walls give players one more tool to be the defensive guy that can support other players. The same would be true to a more complex economy. A game designer or player that lives to much in the craft world will never create the best new rts. You have to see the good things in other rts and to combine these things in a smart way. To build a Blizzard like rts have not only good aspects. Would be nice if HeroMarine can say a few words to these things. Would be interesting if he agrees or disagrees and how his opinion is.
I agree on random map generation - such a thing was integrated into the matchmaking of supreme commander FAF by the community and works really well and fun.
I just noticed, the instant flip of the resource collection units does look weird. Every unit needs a cap on their turn speed. Even their MoveSpeed goes from 0 to HERO in a flash, a tiny bit to time like 0.2 seconds to reach that top speed will make it feel 100 times more natural and enjoyable. Plus making a surprise attack on the enemy will pay much better if you are from a strategically better position.
ngl that's a pretty stupid thing to complain about. units having a non-instant turn speed isn't any more "natural" or enjoyable. you don't expect to see it in any other genre of game, and there's no particular reason it needs to be a thing in an RTS either, either than making the game feel more sluggish and unresponsive.
@@DevinDTV Your commands must not feel sluggish, but how units behave is a different matter. Even in FPS games the responses are not instant when they need to do a 180 degree turn. I wonder why they don't put a key command where it does that instantly so you won't have to use your "slow" mouse or reflexes. In many RTS where there are machine units like tanks, they have turn speed also for their turrets, not just for their positioning. It's not about being sluggish, units react to your commands instantly, but it's to allow the "tiny" advantage of the enemy surprise attack because of positioning. The penalty doesn't have to be severe like what we would expect in real life, but to have a minor link to that idea can make a huge difference and immerse players into the game. If there is not a thing like that, micro skills and strategic positioning are not as important as they could be, so my take is that people won't find a game like that as much fun as it could be.
Not being able to customize the hotkeys is such a deal-breaker. The game is literally unplayable for so many people. Even before issues with game design or balance arise. It boggles the mind that in a game whose main audience is the SC2 playerbase it is not even possible to have the same hotkey setup as SC2. What were they thinking?
It’s unbelievably fucking baffling My preferred hotkey setup for SC2 that I tweaked over many years actually uses all the same keys as Stormgate’s default layout About 50% of the keys do a different thing It’s so bloody hard to adjust to. I can switch back to SC2 defaults and because they’re SO different from my layout I can adjust better I know that sounds ridiculous and counterintuitive but (and I played with SC defaults for a while), but it’s genuinely harder for me
Regarding impactful unit design: The indie game Mechabellum has great ’oumph’ to their unit design with units called everything ranging from ’Storm callers’ to ’phoenix’ and ’Overlord’, ’Sandworm’, ’Fortress’. And the names fits the design and functionality and upgrades perfectly, and leaves a lasting impression and connection with the units. Would love to see an RTS by the mechabellum creator 😂😅
I thought the hotkey thing would be a deal breaker for me but I managed to get used to it. It's understandable that you don't want to unlearn a bunch of muscle memory and relearn new one. When it comes to the campaign you should play it with the nightmare difficulty mod, that's an additional difficulty above what the game offers normally, a lot of missions are actually challenging.
I totally agree with you about the hotkeys, it would be so much better if there was a separate build hotkey card. the one the got me was H not being hold position which I use in both SCII and Dota 2 and it messed me up so hard when it changed a lot of other things to H that I didn't want. As far as the units go, I think they feel pretty familiar but are different enough and the not having 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, incremental is a huge plus. I think Frost Giants biggest problem is their communication, I spent a few hours trying to get the new patch to work on Sept 17th when I saw it on Steam, turns out, it didn't come out till the 19th which it didn't say ANYWHERE on steam and then I got shamed when I went over to the discord help to try to figure out why the patch install instructions weren't working.
It's not a terrible game. Just not outstanding enough to attract much of a playerbase. Worst of all they messed up their launch and it's going to be extremely hard to rebuild reputation etc
it is a terrible game with terrible boring gameplay. that in my definition and standard is "terrible" when players are not attracted to a game. it means humans do not appreciate it and i happen to be one.
sorry, but it is a terrible game. feels soul less, boring. There don't genuinely feel to be any moments in fights that are enjoyable or notable. I swear even wc3 with slower combat has more impactful bursts of OH CRAP moments. This is the most mundane, horribly flawed game Ive played and its shrinking playerbase proves that point. Also, they wont have time to rebuild their reputation, theyre dead broke and no one will give them more money. They also lied about being funded to release of 1.0, theyre only funded to release of ea.......which is what happened. oh, they also conservatively told investors they would have at least 50% of the sc2 player base concurrently playing to support the game to 1.0 release. Their lies continue to come to the light.
I had no idea about the hotkey customization issues. I'm looking at it now and it looks LAZY tbh. Why ? Cause they've left the generic "Command card Row X - Position Y" thing in there. That's what you do initially when you're coding your program just to get it going. Then you're supposed to type in the actual references. In this case individual actions, not 'places in the command grid'. That's insane. It's two steps backwards from what Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 2 already have.
For the hotkey thing, it isn't immensely complicated, just annoying to change. Another point to mention would be the performance, some of us don't have the absolute latest graphic cards and it runs very poorly on middle of the road systems. That's the main reason I stopped personally. Getting to end game then being literally unable to box units, couldn't play like this unfortunately.
As a man, who plays sc2 on tablet, I can't play Stormgate too due to the fact that I can't customize my hotkeys to actually play it. Meanwhile SC2's options and League of Legends options totally allow that
The hotkeys fix is actually not so complicated. You need to clone the array for each menu, and give it different config per each. I'm of course big time underselling, but it's not something you can't deliver in 1 / 2 sprints if you put your mind to it.
good man don’t play games you dont like completely agree ! but maybe 1 or 2 videos explaining why not is enough. This is your 4th video, and i’m sure it wont be your last
As a very casual RTS player, that almost doesn't micro at all, I think this has so much potential. I always liked WC3 over SC/SC2, and this feels like a step in that direction. I wish the graphics on the units were a tiny bit less cartoonish, and I wish the pathing was better though.
I tried it as well, my main issues are the sound design still feels very rough, I don't like where the camera is to be honest it feels too high for me, and overall some core units feel very bad to use and control, and doesn't have charm like the dogs. I've had enough for now. Still interested though but I will check back in after a year.
I hope they listen and adapt. I want a live supported sc2 so bad and I feel it's our only option :'( I agree with the feeling of copy paste, as a celestial player it doesn't feel as cheap thankfully (the damn prisms are pretty original e.g.)
Celestials and Infernals have a better design. What I don‘t like about Celestials it feels like a cheesier Version of Protoss. When I was playing they Proxy everygame, their top bar abilities just feel lame (like insta killing a creep with just one click). These are all things they can balance out. My main point is that it‘s taking them way too long
They shouldn’t have to rewrite it, it’s the most baffling thing of their entire development process Even if they somehow didn’t know players from various RTS games like their custom hotkeys, they got feedback from day 1 of the initial closed play test saying that was a real must-have
When it gets good, I'll give it another go, but that's my issue it's just slower then SC2, the units are uglier, I have 0 reason to care about any of the factions, the Campaign is boring.
We don’t need another fast paced RTS for PVP as SC2 is good enough, and I don’t want to relearn everything again. Rather we need better PvE content for this kind of games. Like better coop modes or something like that.
My biggest issue with Unit design is that I'm ok if they copy other games as long as they add more than what they copy. And this game, as strange as it sounds, subtracts from what they've copied 😂😂. You can tell, unit by unit, where they come from, and somehow these new units are waaaay worse than the originals. There's nothing unique and cool about these units, and believe me, units SHOULD be cool. Take for example, the Lancer. I can't believe that an advanced race, capable of interdimensional traveling, thinks that is a good idea to give their first unit a FREAKING sword. That's simply absurd and I don't believe this word they're telling me.
Lol it's been around for decades. Stormgate is not even fully released. SC2 also left out heroes and creeps which made it a deeper game and where SC2 was lacking
@jesseroper1206 this is poor excuse... sc2 has been out longer 100% so you should be able to build off it this game feels like a huge step backwards. If sc2 is a 7 why would you go play game thats a 5.
Funnily enough, SC2 grid hotkey setup also does NOT let you customize each layer of the grid! Only the position (as in this game). AND if you try to recreate grid in standard, the game gives you errors for key duplicates!! Though it offers great customization, it’s actually is not perfect. (I believe the same goes for AOE4)
well blizzard was terrible for awhile. even going into sc2 they sucked. the fact that they don't have mutually exclusive hotkeys is beyond stupid and shortsighted. just do if priorityBinding then macro1 else gridBinding1
Agree with everything but at 10:00 , to be fair, Starcraft was a carbon copy of Warhammer 40k. Not the exact story itself but the setting, races and aesthetics were pure plagiarism. Look up Tyranids... the differents types there are, how they function and how they can infest humans... The Zerg are just a blatant copy of that. The only reason Starcraft got away with it is because 40k wasn't mainstream enough so a lot of people didn't even know or care... But since Starcraft is now mainstream, anything that copies it gets criticized, when it is in fact, a copy itself.
This is true. Warcraft was also a ripoff of Warhammer. The devs originally wanted to use Warhammer license or something I can't remember if they couldn't afford it or just got rejected outright. So they had to make up their own lore etc. One big difference is that Blizzard had a fantastic art team with Metzen and as you mentioned their own twist on things with the lore. Instead of being a cheap Warhammer 40k knockoff it was something that stands on it's own. Really from what I remember Games Workshop has only themselves to blame.
I agree about the lack of identity. The setting with Heaven, Hell and Humans doesn't feel too exciting or intriguing either. I think Immortal: Gates of Pyre has done a good job with their world and faction design, in comparison.
Stormgate really lacks setting. Imagine all of this happening in Star Wars universe, or Warhammer 40k, or Magic the Gathering. This would be much more interesting. I understand all of those established franchises are copyrighted and cost alot to use their IP but still worth it. Now it looks like triangles fighting squares mining circles
I 100% agree on the hotkey thing. That's also why I keep away from this game. I don't want to mess up my muscle memory, when switching between the games.
it’s a tough predicament you have. You want it to be very much like starcraft in its game control but not like starcraft in anything else. So you want a starcraft mod. It’s tough to say you don’t like a game because you refuse to learn the controls. I imagine it’s extremely difficult to want to change your habits given your level on SC2. But in a way, it’s like saying i don’t like playing violin because i want to play guitar or whatever. They are different and the control scheme is meant to be a part of different gameplay. I think your critique of unit design and overall lack of depth in character design, sound, detail, imagination are valid. At the end of the day I will likely never play because i just like SC2 but i would really like the genre to see a resurgence
Honestly, I think it‘s good that they have a lot SC2 inspired stuff like the units in the game. However, with the current meta and balance it‘s the only thing going for themselves. If they find a way to balance and make creeps fun + create a fun meta it can already change my view. But right now it just feels like an SC2 Alpha Version, still a lot of work to be done
Hotkeys, graphics and balance are things that may change dramatically as time goes by. It takes time to develop. What is a deal breaker for me is the concept of the game. I don't see myself playing celestials or the game in ranked mode. The same way i didn't like playing warcraft i don't like this game. I only support it because it's coming from some of the only people that are invested and committed for RTS. On the other hand i think i will enjoy playing the mods people will make on this game
You indeed can't ignore the similarities, although with Vanguard/Terran races I am much more forgiving. We are looking at advanced future human races, ofcourse they will have some infantry like marines, some robo-workers to enhance their productivity. Tanks, Battleships, Troopers and Mechs. What would You expect?:) At first I was dissapointed with overall race design, to me it is SC, WC and Diablo all combined. But that is also kinda cool what they pulled off:) (Damn demons and angels from space:D) I root for FGS to make this game great someday, I think they are on the right path, just not quite there yet. PS. But I do hate skins offer, while the game itself requires a lot of work, they should spend their resources on the game itself with priority Cheers!
If starcraft was delivered in 98' with 1v1 only mode with scrap graphic and bad pathing with a promise of getting better would you play? marines without background would be just pif paf spacesoldiers. HeroPifPafspacesoldier? (no dissrespect) I guess not. Well stormgate is a contribution to war/star\crat product, not done yet as we see progress of development in real time early acces. In stormgate you can have joy from splitting your exos and killing magmadons, but thats it, there is already such thing on the market with better, adjustable interface. Yet the guys made games that made my childhood bearable They read feedback. Voice matters, text them what they need to add to the game
He probably would, because sc was really unique back then, if it just looked a mix of some popular games with bad graphics then he probably wouldnt(obviously there are some cool new things in Stormgate, but it isnt as unique as sc was at all)
@@КарлКарыч SC made a lot of improvements to existing rts genre back in the day. you could select 12 units wich was huge at the time. shift order queque too. I wouldnt play it if it was like warcraft2 quality based. Look at starcraft (1) alpha montages. it was looking like wc2. stormgate looks like sc2 now more or less. I just cant wait till its relased up to 0.7 or higher. now its 0.1.
Don't agree that most units are just copies. For example, any game that's gonna make basic infantry unit it's probably gonna be a dude with some type of AR, does it make it a marine copy ? In this case you literally can't make basic unit way too unique. What about siege weapons, if you say atlas is a copy of a TANK, and they have only 1 similarity - siege mode. Like what else can you even design if having siege mode is copy of a SC2 siege tank. Graven and Ghost also have different kits, only thing they share is being invisible. Does that mean any invisible unit is copy of a ghost from SC2? This can go on, and if someone else has some knowledge they will probably say that X unit is SC2 is copy of Y units in some other RTS and that's fine, unless it's not 1v1 stolen then that's bad. At the end of the day I see units as weapons in shooters, you can't say that one game stole shotguns from the other, right?
I think the problem is that they decided to use a safe unit design instead of experimenting. For example: they wanted to add a tank and artillery so they just took a unit from SC2.
Your take is not harsh, stating the obvious. Take an even higher-level view. RTS is a wide genre, that includes LOL and SC2 universes, etc. Devs seem to think that there are sub genres, but I think that is a huge error. There is only Genre, and large tentpole IP underneath. You can't remake LOL. That company owns that way of doing it now. Forever. You can't remake SC2. Blizzard exhausted every balance change and every type of unit and every meta until they got to the end of the road. Is there really anything more they could say in SC3? No. It would just be different graphics. And Stormgate is in this problematic situation. Is that team deep with talent? Yes. Do I hope they piviot quickly and try something different? Yes. I think RTS can mean a lot of things, and they need to find that special sauce that evolves into something unique. I recommend they keep blizzard style controls, but mix it with a more 3rd person (Like playing Madden, but it's their units) Whatever it could have been, it needed to start a new base, a new mechanic, a new perspective. There is no more conversation to be had in standard top down play. Maybe VR will need to mature before we get into something super original in it's approach. But I feel lucky. the last 25 years were just epic for new things and new games that evolved. And now we are at the end, and something else must grow anew. I do not envy them. Creative companies will find it harder and harder to not be derivative at some level as all these games get pushed out.
Wait I thought you're bein nitty bitty about the hot keys (because I haven't played stormgate yet), but darn after you showed the problem here, I must say, that's not even a RTS specific hotkey issue, that's just plain stupid to couple keys to a grid that different concepts are bound to
I think there should be multiple "Command Cards", each command card for each situation (construction unit, 1st type of combat unit, 2nd type of combat unit, etc.). This multiple "Command Cards" system is doable. They should really put their main effort in hotkey features.
I think game design is fine, it feels same like sc Becouse the developers are from sc, how would you make really different game, it’s same if they make all life this kind of rts and to make everything so original is insane for people I think. You have to have completely new idea and concept. It’s their rts style. I think game is just poorly optimised atm.
Lack of unit identidy is due to a horrible campaign. If they did a better job in the campaign we could have had that. Thats why I am not playing, and I backed the game. The campaign is horrible
The story could be better , maybe they make better story, but usually esports players don’t care too much about story. I don’t really enjoyed StarCraft story or style I like more innocent style
i'm not playing the game because of the censorship in game and on discord. If you're not allowed to banter and lose access to your paid account for telling people GLFU
@@wimmywozzle778 Maybe Frost Giant could actually have hotkey customization that works instead. You know the developers have way more input on the success of Stormgate, right? It is 2024. These are supposed to be the guys that worked on SC2. Them messing this up is crazy.
The T attack move thing is exactly what I have had an issue with as well. I play around it for now but will be switching the keys as soon as more hotkey customization options are available. Also yes play the sc2 campaign.
I should add that custom keybinds are a lot of work for devs in RTS games compared to other games because one key can have so many different actions based on the context. It's further complicated by grid systems(which I like to use). Even SC2's grid system has limitations that I have run into and made workarounds for.
I'm really enjoying it. You're missing out. It's not even done yet and you're bashing the early access. SC is good but missing heroes and creeps, capture points. StarCraft is only resources and armies. Yawn
Videos like these are what help StormGate improve further, it's especially important because StormGate is unfinished, this allow the game unfinished foundation to be built correctly.
Maybe they could also add a building as an objective that you need to protect\destroy. Like an ancient, important building that serves as the nexus of your base, and you have to destroy the enemy's to win. And what if creep spawned from the players' bases and marched towards the enemy along predetermined paths and there was towers along the paths and.... Wait a minute...
@@jesse76th96 Everyone is different, different peoples will like different things, if you want something changed in StormGate for your enjoyment, please do speak up and ask.
The only reason you're not playing StormGate is because you lost to Lowko, stop lying Jk man i totally get it. I stopped playing StormGate too, it just feels like a bad version of SC2 right now anyway
See you when you return to play Stormgate, by the time it is polished and is considered next gen RTS. You hate the game without reason for the sake of hating and just because hating it, is cool. Developers are improving the game almost every month. And you really should comprehend what early access means!
I am not hating, I am just sharing my opinion on the current game. Of course Early Access means they are going to make it better and better. However for me, releasing it this early has really taken away a lot of hype I had for the game. In my opinion, it‘s doing them more harm than good. I agree that there is going to be a more polished Version that I like. Nonetheless, I am afraid it‘s already too late for many people at that point.
I agree, currently it is just inferior version of starcraft 2 that visuallly looks pretty bad in my opinion. It also lacks a lot of necessary features, feels very unfinished
sorry, but your hotkey complain sounds a bit naive if not stupid.. it's called command row 1 column 1, and you complain that it changes all commands in row 1 column 1.. don't you see a hole in your logic?
I've always been a fan of RTS games, I bought it to support and played less than an hour. Ultimately I refunded it, it's just not near what I expected. Won't be returning personally the game just isn't up to what I expect.
When sg came out, I was disappointed, because I had high hopes, but what I saw was painfully reminding me of wc3, which I hate (no need to take this personally, it just doesn't go along with my taste to this degree). I have no hope now, but I will check out sg from time to time. Who knows.
It's a mix of War3 and SC2. My issue is that there are no hero units so this type of gameplay simply does not feel good. Why would you want to kill creeps without a hero unit to level up? Just for the quick cash and that's not very satisfying at all. The action is on the slower side. Lots of flashy graphic effects with very little result. Warcraft 3 is a lot better than this game.
@@Ziegfried82 I know it and it doesn't matter to me, I'm a sc2 player, it feels to me too much like a bad copy of wc3, and I guess, to wc3 player it feels like a bad copy of sc2. What you said about hero makes some sense, for me it'd be a solid reason to not even try, I hate "dota-alike" type of gameplay. Yeah, I think no matter, where you came from, the game where you are from is still uncomparably better.
I literally edited my keyboard outside of the game to solve the exact keybind issue you are talking about…
Keybinds are one of the most important features to get right in an RTS imo.
People have VASTLY different keybind styles across the RTS community and giving us total customization should be a top priority.
Its actually insane hotkey customization isnt in the game.. Its a basic feature in indie games at this point!
I was excited to try Stormgate and so i did, guess what was one of the factors that turned me off - HOTKEYS, its insane that they did them in such a uncomfortable way, not to mention that graphics also suck, im not a fan of childish looking toys being my units. I also agree with his second point, there are no cool units at all, the game design sucks. I would be so amazed by sc zealot and archon, they are just so cool, also WC3 has alot of cool heroes, stormgate has nothing cool about its units at all. Complete lack of identity, they literally had so many space to be creative about so many things and they ended up just copying sc2, this game deserves and is doomed to fail in my opinion.
I’m genuinely curious how you made that work?
You’re still going to have the all keys on a grid issue no?
@@StewartMillarTheManCave That’s correct. It only worked because I actually like Spacebar for A- move.
So since space is outside of the grid, I could just set Space to A in windows “PowerToys” with a quick toggle button at the ready.
So my issue was actually just to get around the fact heat you can not have multiple keybinds for something in SG.
So this was my work around for them non letting you bind specific functions within the grid OR allow a function to have multiple keybinds.
@@kgeo2686 aye that makes sense
For any rts that claims to be an e-sport the keybind system should be a must
To be honest, it's absolutely shocking that Stormgate is 14 years newer than SC2. Completely diabolical, what the hell were these developers thinking? So out of touch the developers must have been in a bubble.
I feel like Stormgate is just a combination of SC2 and WC3. Despite some new mechanics (like brute split), it's like they make the game just because they want to build another competitive RTS, and they are doing this without any significant storyline.
Yes that's exactly what this game is. The worst part is that they took a lot from War3's gameplay but then kept out the hero units. Now people can see how bad War3 would be without hero units.
and unfortunately for them, a competitive scene needs to be supported by a casual playerbase, which focuses more on campaign/co-op. Basically they're forgetting that they should make a good game first, and then a competitive scene will naturally follow.
also because sc2 is dead.
@@lilarrin1220 Knowing the current trends of gaming and today's culture, it's impossible to replicate SC1's success today. A lightning caught in a bottle can't be caught anymore.
@@dandel1345 sc2 is not dead, im playing competitive everyday
My intuition as a programmer is that writing the code to allow the types of hotkeys you want to create should be fairly trivial. The basic idea is that the buttons on the command card should be mapped to "Actions" like "Queue a Marine". Those actions can just be defined in a large enum and you likely have less than 200 for the entire game. Then, you have a bidirectional map between buttons on your keyboard and actions. You click on the barracks, that makes a specific bidirectional map active. When you press the button T, it uses the bidirectional map that is currently active to attempt the given action.
Well... the question is why did they do grid instead of fully customizable. After all if you have customizable you can arrange a grid with it, but if you build the UI around grid how do you do customizable after that?
You are correct and let me add extra info as UE developer, this is more or less how keybinds work out of box in Unreal Engine where you have "actions" and "action mapping context" that maps these actions to physical buttons. So, it is trivial to make user-mappable actions. It shouldn't take longer than 1 week of 1 programmer and that is accounting for potential bugs and edge cases.
@@Eirenarchthe question is also why they still have it in a genre with the most picky/varied hotkey tastes, that has also had feedback since the first closed alpha that they need fully customisable hotkeys
Game is not enjoyable to play for me for me, just because of how I developed my own hotkeys over years, I basically use the same keys as Stormgate but they do different things
Warcraft 3 it was a pain to manually edit a text file to port my SC2 layout when I went back to that old favourite, but I COULD edit it
They have linked multiple actions on the same hotkey, it's a common dev trap to budle sections for easier handling and then "customers" like this come along and you have to "rewrite" that section.
Luckily I also think it should be fairly trivial to add more keys for specific actions and split them if necesarry, but some devs might not be able to carry (psychologically) the burden of refactoring quality into quantity just to fix an "edge" case. :D
they seem to be using a 3D array but with the granularity of a 2D array. really, really stupid. thats what the "column 1:2" refers to but the mapping presumes "1:2:N" with this stupid hidden dimension all being treated equally.
Big Gabe, you've never played the SC2 campaign? :O Bruh, that's what we need for UA-cam too.
BIG GABE, we need you to play campaign!
Also, SC2 Mass Recall
Please play the campaign.
I second that!
Yes please, I'd watch that :D
Don't sugar coat, just say it how it is. People who are sensitive and get offended easily will get offended regardless of what you say or how you say it. Don't pander.
It is extremely sad that a developer would make a video game in this era and not allow people to map keybinds, R6 siege is a fantastic shooter, for YEARS! they didnt let people on console map settings, now they do, but man its incredible this isnt a very top priority add, and also VERY easy to do for a developer.
I love that you are pointing out this, I won't play Stormgate either until they fix the hotkey situation.
I have also an opinion that is not heared very often.
My list of things that have to be improved is also very long so I just want to mention the 3 most important things for me.
1.
Stormgate has things like destroyable trees so the situation on the map can change so every match can feel a bit different by which the replayability is increased and it feels less boring to play on the same map again and again. And also for viewers the watch experience feel different. Not just because of the match ups and unit compositions, but also through the changing terrain.
So everything that increase the diversity and replayablility is good. Buildable, destroyable walls would be such a feature that can be destroyed like trees, but can also build anywhere on the map so the situation on the map can change even more. Walls can block ways so opponents have to find new ways or try to destroy the wall. So walls give the decision to the player where trees/walls are and the structure of the map changes dynamically through player's decisions. That change also the location of interesting attack locations and fights. So every match would feel more unique.
The reason for boring long lasting games are not walls, but undestructable cliffs on almost every resource position that limits the possible ways to damage your opponent drastically and some unit designs that force that like Swarm Hosts. In Age there is no problem with boring long lasting games. In Age there are enough good tools to destroy walls fast. In my opinion walls are absolutely needed in an good rts. And the reason that in Age, WC and SC structures are used as walls shows that the concept of walls are used and needed in every rts. So Frost Giant should just implement buildable and destroyable walls for each race. With walls they can also show creativity. For example for Infernals the wall can consist of a pile of bones that can spawn zombies or other monster when you attack it. For Celestials walls can be a sort of light shield that regenerates automatically except you destroy some central structures that deliver energy and for Vanguard it can be a cool classic wall design like the GDI walls of C&C Tiberium Sun. Just to mention a few ideas. The limit is the sky.
2.
The second important thing for me are procedural generated maps as an option besides hand crafted maps. Because this would not just increase the diversity and replayability even further, it also increase the skill ceiling of scouting. You not just have to scout your opponent, you also have to scout the map, where resources are, where entries to the enemies are, where your entries are, where creep camps are, where interesting locations for bases are etc. That add much more freedom of decision making and variety to the game so players have more options to express their skills. Even more game modes would be possible through that like Nomad maps from Age of Empires. By the way it is absolutely no problem to generate mirrored maps so every player have the exact same conditions. So balance is no argument here and in Age it works in the tournements without mirrored maps.
3.
The third important thing is an economy that allows the player to express their skills in this topic so players can be known for a good economic player like some SC2 players are known for a good mech player. In general it would be good when players can fullfill different roles in a team. So one guy can be more the defensive guy that protect allied players, one guy can be more the aggressive player that buy time for the team and harass the eco of the opponents and an additional other player can be the booming guy that concentrate on economy for a while to be very strong later in the game. So for me it is important that different player types can find their role in an rts like players find their stereotype in games like LoL or Dota where some players like to play as a tank, others want to play a supporter and an additional guy want to play a damage dealer. Therefore it is important to add mechanics and tools that allow players to express their skills in more different ways and therefore it is important to make the systems like map generation and manipulation and or economy more complex. Adding buildable and destroyable walls give players one more tool to be the defensive guy that can support other players. The same would be true to a more complex economy.
A game designer or player that lives to much in the craft world will never create the best new rts. You have to see the good things in other rts and to combine these things in a smart way. To build a Blizzard like rts have not only good aspects.
Would be nice if HeroMarine can say a few words to these things. Would be interesting if he agrees or disagrees and how his opinion is.
I agree on random map generation - such a thing was integrated into the matchmaking of supreme commander FAF by the community and works really well and fun.
I just noticed, the instant flip of the resource collection units does look weird. Every unit needs a cap on their turn speed. Even their MoveSpeed goes from 0 to HERO in a flash, a tiny bit to time like 0.2 seconds to reach that top speed will make it feel 100 times more natural and enjoyable.
Plus making a surprise attack on the enemy will pay much better if you are from a strategically better position.
ngl that's a pretty stupid thing to complain about. units having a non-instant turn speed isn't any more "natural" or enjoyable. you don't expect to see it in any other genre of game, and there's no particular reason it needs to be a thing in an RTS either, either than making the game feel more sluggish and unresponsive.
@@DevinDTV Your commands must not feel sluggish, but how units behave is a different matter.
Even in FPS games the responses are not instant when they need to do a 180 degree turn.
I wonder why they don't put a key command where it does that instantly so you won't have to use your "slow" mouse or reflexes.
In many RTS where there are machine units like tanks, they have turn speed also for their turrets, not just for their positioning.
It's not about being sluggish, units react to your commands instantly, but it's to allow the "tiny" advantage of the enemy surprise attack because of positioning. The penalty doesn't have to be severe like what we would expect in real life, but to have a minor link to that idea can make a huge difference and immerse players into the game.
If there is not a thing like that, micro skills and strategic positioning are not as important as they could be, so my take is that people won't find a game like that as much fun as it could be.
the key bindings was the first bit of feedback I gave on the very first day, months and months ago. It's unplayable until they make this change.
Not being able to customize the hotkeys is such a deal-breaker.
The game is literally unplayable for so many people. Even before issues with game design or balance arise.
It boggles the mind that in a game whose main audience is the SC2 playerbase it is not even possible to have the same hotkey setup as SC2. What were they thinking?
It’s unbelievably fucking baffling
My preferred hotkey setup for SC2 that I tweaked over many years actually uses all the same keys as Stormgate’s default layout
About 50% of the keys do a different thing
It’s so bloody hard to adjust to. I can switch back to SC2 defaults and because they’re SO different from my layout I can adjust better
I know that sounds ridiculous and counterintuitive but (and I played with SC defaults for a while), but it’s genuinely harder for me
Regarding impactful unit design:
The indie game Mechabellum has great ’oumph’ to their unit design with units called everything ranging from ’Storm callers’ to ’phoenix’ and ’Overlord’, ’Sandworm’, ’Fortress’. And the names fits the design and functionality and upgrades perfectly, and leaves a lasting impression and connection with the units.
Would love to see an RTS by the mechabellum creator 😂😅
I thought the hotkey thing would be a deal breaker for me but I managed to get used to it. It's understandable that you don't want to unlearn a bunch of muscle memory and relearn new one.
When it comes to the campaign you should play it with the nightmare difficulty mod, that's an additional difficulty above what the game offers normally, a lot of missions are actually challenging.
I totally agree with you about the hotkeys, it would be so much better if there was a separate build hotkey card. the one the got me was H not being hold position which I use in both SCII and Dota 2 and it messed me up so hard when it changed a lot of other things to H that I didn't want.
As far as the units go, I think they feel pretty familiar but are different enough and the not having 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, incremental is a huge plus.
I think Frost Giants biggest problem is their communication, I spent a few hours trying to get the new patch to work on Sept 17th when I saw it on Steam, turns out, it didn't come out till the 19th which it didn't say ANYWHERE on steam and then I got shamed when I went over to the discord help to try to figure out why the patch install instructions weren't working.
It's not a terrible game. Just not outstanding enough to attract much of a playerbase. Worst of all they messed up their launch and it's going to be extremely hard to rebuild reputation etc
I agree, it‘s nowhere close to SC2 but I would still play it if they get a couple of more things right
it is a terrible game with terrible boring gameplay. that in my definition and standard is "terrible" when players are not attracted to a game. it means humans do not appreciate it and i happen to be one.
sorry, but it is a terrible game. feels soul less, boring. There don't genuinely feel to be any moments in fights that are enjoyable or notable. I swear even wc3 with slower combat has more impactful bursts of OH CRAP moments.
This is the most mundane, horribly flawed game Ive played and its shrinking playerbase proves that point.
Also, they wont have time to rebuild their reputation, theyre dead broke and no one will give them more money. They also lied about being funded to release of 1.0, theyre only funded to release of ea.......which is what happened.
oh, they also conservatively told investors they would have at least 50% of the sc2 player base concurrently playing to support the game to 1.0 release.
Their lies continue to come to the light.
@@beefstewiscoolSo basically, an indie version of Reforge?
OMG, Yes! I definitely want to watch you play the SC2 Campaign! Let's go!
I had no idea about the hotkey customization issues. I'm looking at it now and it looks LAZY tbh. Why ? Cause they've left the generic "Command card Row X - Position Y" thing in there. That's what you do initially when you're coding your program just to get it going. Then you're supposed to type in the actual references. In this case individual actions, not 'places in the command grid'. That's insane. It's two steps backwards from what Age of Empires 2 and Starcraft 2 already have.
I'd like to see you play through the Starcraft 2 campaign with the Nightmare difficulty mod
For the hotkey thing, it isn't immensely complicated, just annoying to change. Another point to mention would be the performance, some of us don't have the absolute latest graphic cards and it runs very poorly on middle of the road systems. That's the main reason I stopped personally. Getting to end game then being literally unable to box units, couldn't play like this unfortunately.
I would really like to see you play the Starcraft 2 campaign. I hope you read this and consider posting a video of it soon!
As a man, who plays sc2 on tablet, I can't play Stormgate too due to the fact that I can't customize my hotkeys to actually play it. Meanwhile SC2's options and League of Legends options totally allow that
How do you do that? do u use a hub to use keyboard and mouse or you play through some streaming?
SC2 on tablet? :O Do you have vids, that interests me!
@@StewartMillarTheManCave I guess I have to make a video about this :D It's simple, but it's better to show than write it down
@@lungvvomit Keyboard + pen. Touch by pen on the tablet is left mouse-key, space is the right-mouse key(but in some cases is left)
@@macroofwey5380 I’d love to watch it!
The hotkeys fix is actually not so complicated. You need to clone the array for each menu, and give it different config per each. I'm of course big time underselling, but it's not something you can't deliver in 1 / 2 sprints if you put your mind to it.
Thank you for making this and sharing your opinions. I always respect your thoughts on subjects like this.
good man don’t play games you dont like completely agree ! but maybe 1 or 2 videos explaining why not is enough. This is your 4th video, and i’m sure it wont be your last
As a very casual RTS player, that almost doesn't micro at all, I think this has so much potential.
I always liked WC3 over SC/SC2, and this feels like a step in that direction.
I wish the graphics on the units were a tiny bit less cartoonish, and I wish the pathing was better though.
That would be great content seeing you play the campaign especially at such a high level.
I tried it as well, my main issues are the sound design still feels very rough, I don't like where the camera is to be honest it feels too high for me, and overall some core units feel very bad to use and control, and doesn't have charm like the dogs.
I've had enough for now. Still interested though but I will check back in after a year.
so they force the grid hotkey system on the players, and don't have the individual spell hotkeys at all
I hope they listen and adapt. I want a live supported sc2 so bad and I feel it's our only option :'(
I agree with the feeling of copy paste, as a celestial player it doesn't feel as cheap thankfully (the damn prisms are pretty original e.g.)
Celestials and Infernals have a better design. What I don‘t like about Celestials it feels like a cheesier Version of Protoss. When I was playing they Proxy everygame, their top bar abilities just feel lame (like insta killing a creep with just one click). These are all things they can balance out. My main point is that it‘s taking them way too long
The no seperate atk move hotkey is insane
Also Reynor calls himself Reynor because Reynor is an excellent character in Brood War and SC2
If the game survives they'll definitely add fully customizable hotkeys. Its just a lot of tedious rewiring they'll need to do in the background
They shouldn’t have to rewrite it, it’s the most baffling thing of their entire development process
Even if they somehow didn’t know players from various RTS games like their custom hotkeys, they got feedback from day 1 of the initial closed play test saying that was a real must-have
When it gets good, I'll give it another go, but that's my issue it's just slower then SC2, the units are uglier, I have 0 reason to care about any of the factions, the Campaign is boring.
Yes i want to see you play the campaign on Brutal or Nightmare. :)
We don’t need another fast paced RTS for PVP as SC2 is good enough, and I don’t want to relearn everything again. Rather we need better PvE content for this kind of games. Like better coop modes or something like that.
My biggest issue with Unit design is that I'm ok if they copy other games as long as they add more than what they copy. And this game, as strange as it sounds, subtracts from what they've copied 😂😂. You can tell, unit by unit, where they come from, and somehow these new units are waaaay worse than the originals.
There's nothing unique and cool about these units, and believe me, units SHOULD be cool. Take for example, the Lancer. I can't believe that an advanced race, capable of interdimensional traveling, thinks that is a good idea to give their first unit a FREAKING sword. That's simply absurd and I don't believe this word they're telling me.
Sc2 is just way more superior game 🎮
Lol it's been around for decades. Stormgate is not even fully released. SC2 also left out heroes and creeps which made it a deeper game and where SC2 was lacking
@jesseroper1206 this is poor excuse... sc2 has been out longer 100% so you should be able to build off it this game feels like a huge step backwards. If sc2 is a 7 why would you go play game thats a 5.
It is dead. Forget about it already 😡😡😡😡😡
That's like saying "the steam train is superior to the electric one" back in the day. Well... It won't be for long 😊
Sc2 4 lyf
thanks for this detailed critique of the game.
hero marine not hero exo
Funnily enough, SC2 grid hotkey setup also does NOT let you customize each layer of the grid! Only the position (as in this game).
AND if you try to recreate grid in standard, the game gives you errors for key duplicates!!
Though it offers great customization, it’s actually is not perfect.
(I believe the same goes for AOE4)
well blizzard was terrible for awhile. even going into sc2 they sucked. the fact that they don't have mutually exclusive hotkeys is beyond stupid and shortsighted. just do if priorityBinding then macro1 else gridBinding1
Agree with everything but at 10:00 , to be fair, Starcraft was a carbon copy of Warhammer 40k. Not the exact story itself but the setting, races and aesthetics were pure plagiarism. Look up Tyranids... the differents types there are, how they function and how they can infest humans... The Zerg are just a blatant copy of that. The only reason Starcraft got away with it is because 40k wasn't mainstream enough so a lot of people didn't even know or care... But since Starcraft is now mainstream, anything that copies it gets criticized, when it is in fact, a copy itself.
This is true. Warcraft was also a ripoff of Warhammer. The devs originally wanted to use Warhammer license or something I can't remember if they couldn't afford it or just got rejected outright. So they had to make up their own lore etc. One big difference is that Blizzard had a fantastic art team with Metzen and as you mentioned their own twist on things with the lore. Instead of being a cheap Warhammer 40k knockoff it was something that stands on it's own. Really from what I remember Games Workshop has only themselves to blame.
It "got away" with it because there's nothing wrong with taking inspiration from other IPs.
The idea for vanguard was to have it feel very familiar, then the other races would be more “original”
Hope the game is good next year🔥
I agree about the lack of identity. The setting with Heaven, Hell and Humans doesn't feel too exciting or intriguing either. I think Immortal: Gates of Pyre has done a good job with their world and faction design, in comparison.
It will take some time but I try to be optimistic and they are other great Rts I can play instead
I want to watch you play starcraft campaign !
Its baffling that they didn't get this right. Weren't the Frost Giant devs supposed to be state of the art? How does this happen?
Stormgate really lacks setting. Imagine all of this happening in Star Wars universe, or Warhammer 40k, or Magic the Gathering. This would be much more interesting.
I understand all of those established franchises are copyrighted and cost alot to use their IP but still worth it. Now it looks like triangles fighting squares mining circles
I backed the game and hope it's great, but I think it's a year or two away from something I want to spend my free time playing.
That makes two of us. I'll refocus on Battle Aces and Immortal Gates of Pyre then.
I 100% agree on the hotkey thing. That's also why I keep away from this game. I don't want to mess up my muscle memory, when switching between the games.
it’s a tough predicament you have. You want it to be very much like starcraft in its game control but not like starcraft in anything else. So you want a starcraft mod. It’s tough to say you don’t like a game because you refuse to learn the controls. I imagine it’s extremely difficult to want to change your habits given your level on SC2. But in a way, it’s like saying i don’t like playing violin because i want to play guitar or whatever. They are different and the control scheme is meant to be a part of different gameplay. I think your critique of unit design and overall lack of depth in character design, sound, detail, imagination are valid. At the end of the day I will likely never play because i just like SC2 but i would really like the genre to see a resurgence
Honestly, I think it‘s good that they have a lot SC2 inspired stuff like the units in the game. However, with the current meta and balance it‘s the only thing going for themselves. If they find a way to balance and make creeps fun + create a fun meta it can already change my view. But right now it just feels like an SC2 Alpha Version, still a lot of work to be done
Hotkeys, graphics and balance are things that may change dramatically as time goes by. It takes time to develop. What is a deal breaker for me is the concept of the game. I don't see myself playing celestials or the game in ranked mode. The same way i didn't like playing warcraft i don't like this game. I only support it because it's coming from some of the only people that are invested and committed for RTS. On the other hand i think i will enjoy playing the mods people will make on this game
bought the game, played for like 2h and left it there. I'm a former casual sc2 player and it simply felt worse to play than good old sc2
Vulcan is a cool unit however it reminds me of Tychus Findlay from the SC2 campaign, though a little bit more "techy".
its not a small issue for pro players, for sure. They should listen to these feedbacks. i guess they will
For me the would have to change the whole engine and the faction by 2/3rds
Bro when you said you didnt play the starcraft campaign, I thought I had a stroke
You indeed can't ignore the similarities, although with Vanguard/Terran races I am much more forgiving.
We are looking at advanced future human races, ofcourse they will have some infantry like marines, some robo-workers to enhance their productivity. Tanks, Battleships, Troopers and Mechs. What would You expect?:)
At first I was dissapointed with overall race design, to me it is SC, WC and Diablo all combined. But that is also kinda cool what they pulled off:)
(Damn demons and angels from space:D)
I root for FGS to make this game great someday, I think they are on the right path, just not quite there yet.
PS. But I do hate skins offer, while the game itself requires a lot of work, they should spend their resources on the game itself with priority
Cheers!
Demons and angels from space? Isn't that just a copy of doom eternal instead?
Please watch a WoL speed run and attempt to reproduce it as your first campaign attempt. Thank you
If starcraft was delivered in 98' with 1v1 only mode with scrap graphic and bad pathing with a promise of getting better would you play? marines without background would be just pif paf spacesoldiers. HeroPifPafspacesoldier? (no dissrespect) I guess not.
Well stormgate is a contribution to war/star\crat product, not done yet as we see progress of development in real time early acces. In stormgate you can have joy from splitting your exos and killing magmadons, but thats it, there is already such thing on the market with better, adjustable interface. Yet the guys made games that made my childhood bearable
They read feedback. Voice matters, text them what they need to add to the game
He probably would, because sc was really unique back then, if it just looked a mix of some popular games with bad graphics then he probably wouldnt(obviously there are some cool new things in Stormgate, but it isnt as unique as sc was at all)
@@КарлКарыч SC made a lot of improvements to existing rts genre back in the day. you could select 12 units wich was huge at the time. shift order queque too. I wouldnt play it if it was like warcraft2 quality based. Look at starcraft (1) alpha montages. it was looking like wc2. stormgate looks like sc2 now more or less. I just cant wait till its relased up to 0.7 or higher. now its 0.1.
Don't agree that most units are just copies.
For example, any game that's gonna make basic infantry unit it's probably gonna be a dude with some type of AR, does it make it a marine copy ? In this case you literally can't make basic unit way too unique.
What about siege weapons, if you say atlas is a copy of a TANK, and they have only 1 similarity - siege mode. Like what else can you even design if having siege mode is copy of a SC2 siege tank.
Graven and Ghost also have different kits, only thing they share is being invisible. Does that mean any invisible unit is copy of a ghost from SC2?
This can go on, and if someone else has some knowledge they will probably say that X unit is SC2 is copy of Y units in some other RTS and that's fine, unless it's not 1v1 stolen then that's bad.
At the end of the day I see units as weapons in shooters, you can't say that one game stole shotguns from the other, right?
I think the problem is that they decided to use a safe unit design instead of experimenting. For example: they wanted to add a tank and artillery so they just took a unit from SC2.
Please play the campain its amazing. The wirting isnt the best but its cheesy and fun. The gameplay is top tier though.
oh yeah, me and Jim Grainger go way back.
even sc2 workers have character personality
Your take is not harsh, stating the obvious. Take an even higher-level view. RTS is a wide genre, that includes LOL and SC2 universes, etc. Devs seem to think that there are sub genres, but I think that is a huge error. There is only Genre, and large tentpole IP underneath. You can't remake LOL. That company owns that way of doing it now. Forever. You can't remake SC2. Blizzard exhausted every balance change and every type of unit and every meta until they got to the end of the road. Is there really anything more they could say in SC3? No. It would just be different graphics. And Stormgate is in this problematic situation. Is that team deep with talent? Yes. Do I hope they piviot quickly and try something different? Yes. I think RTS can mean a lot of things, and they need to find that special sauce that evolves into something unique. I recommend they keep blizzard style controls, but mix it with a more 3rd person (Like playing Madden, but it's their units) Whatever it could have been, it needed to start a new base, a new mechanic, a new perspective. There is no more conversation to be had in standard top down play. Maybe VR will need to mature before we get into something super original in it's approach. But I feel lucky. the last 25 years were just epic for new things and new games that evolved. And now we are at the end, and something else must grow anew. I do not envy them. Creative companies will find it harder and harder to not be derivative at some level as all these games get pushed out.
Hero Marine is right. Stormgate has a big lack of identity.
Wait I thought you're bein nitty bitty about the hot keys (because I haven't played stormgate yet), but darn after you showed the problem here, I must say, that's not even a RTS specific hotkey issue, that's just plain stupid to couple keys to a grid that different concepts are bound to
I'd love to see you play the sc2 campaign haha
I think there should be multiple "Command Cards", each command card for each situation (construction unit, 1st type of combat unit, 2nd type of combat unit, etc.).
This multiple "Command Cards" system is doable. They should really put their main effort in hotkey features.
oh . Really would like you to play nightmare compaign
I think game design is fine, it feels same like sc Becouse the developers are from sc, how would you make really different game, it’s same if they make all life this kind of rts and to make everything so original is insane for people I think. You have to have completely new idea and concept. It’s their rts style. I think game is just poorly optimised atm.
Lack of unit identidy is due to a horrible campaign. If they did a better job in the campaign we could have had that. Thats why I am not playing, and I backed the game. The campaign is horrible
The story could be better , maybe they make better story, but usually esports players don’t care too much about story. I don’t really enjoyed StarCraft story or style I like more innocent style
i'm not playing the game because of the censorship in game and on discord. If you're not allowed to banter and lose access to your paid account for telling people GLFU
Well, maybe a series of patches, there's a small chance to change your mind :0
Sure, I would love to play again when I feel like it‘s worth it
@@HeroMarineSc2stop actively harming its community by posting repetitive complaint videos then
@@wimmywozzle778 Maybe Frost Giant could actually have hotkey customization that works instead. You know the developers have way more input on the success of Stormgate, right? It is 2024. These are supposed to be the guys that worked on SC2. Them messing this up is crazy.
@@wimmywozzle778 wtf are you talking about
I think you hit the nail on the head regarding this game: Lack of imagination. There's nothing in this game that hasn't been done before, but better.
somehow wc3 has better custom hotkeys
I like the lancer, but all other units in stormgate are soo flat and uninterestin. Makes me not care about the game at all
You literally said Terran zealots I hope that was intentional
YES CAMPAIGN LFG
The T attack move thing is exactly what I have had an issue with as well. I play around it for now but will be switching the keys as soon as more hotkey customization options are available.
Also yes play the sc2 campaign.
I should add that custom keybinds are a lot of work for devs in RTS games compared to other games because one key can have so many different actions based on the context. It's further complicated by grid systems(which I like to use). Even SC2's grid system has limitations that I have run into and made workarounds for.
I'm really enjoying it. You're missing out. It's not even done yet and you're bashing the early access. SC is good but missing heroes and creeps, capture points. StarCraft is only resources and armies. Yawn
Hero’s and creeps are awful game mechanics. StarCraft 2 is much better, he’ll StarCraft bw is better than Stormgate
Videos like these are what help StormGate improve further, it's especially important because StormGate is unfinished, this allow the game unfinished foundation to be built correctly.
Maybe they could also add a building as an objective that you need to protect\destroy. Like an ancient, important building that serves as the nexus of your base, and you have to destroy the enemy's to win. And what if creep spawned from the players' bases and marched towards the enemy along predetermined paths and there was towers along the paths and....
Wait a minute...
I don't like playing against npcs in multiplayer games
@@jesse76th96 Everyone is different, different peoples will like different things, if you want something changed in StormGate for your enjoyment, please do speak up and ask.
The only reason you're not playing StormGate is because you lost to Lowko, stop lying
Jk man i totally get it. I stopped playing StormGate too, it just feels like a bad version of SC2 right now anyway
I do what to watch you the StarCraft campaign!
Play the campaign my dude!
See you when you return to play Stormgate, by the time it is polished and is considered next gen RTS. You hate the game without reason for the sake of hating and just because hating it, is cool. Developers are improving the game almost every month. And you really should comprehend what early access means!
I am not hating, I am just sharing my opinion on the current game. Of course Early Access means they are going to make it better and better.
However for me, releasing it this early has really taken away a lot of hype I had for the game. In my opinion, it‘s doing them more harm than good. I agree that there is going to be a more polished Version that I like. Nonetheless, I am afraid it‘s already too late for many people at that point.
Ok, see you in SG once it's done.
I went to see the SteamCharts data for SG, conclusion: ScamGate is dead.
Honestly i would wait for BATTLEACES it looks so much better.
I agree, currently it is just inferior version of starcraft 2 that visuallly looks pretty bad in my opinion. It also lacks a lot of necessary features, feels very unfinished
Please review godsworn
sorry, but your hotkey complain sounds a bit naive if not stupid.. it's called command row 1 column 1, and you complain that it changes all commands in row 1 column 1.. don't you see a hole in your logic?
I've always been a fan of RTS games, I bought it to support and played less than an hour. Ultimately I refunded it, it's just not near what I expected. Won't be returning personally the game just isn't up to what I expect.
I would totally watch you play the SC2 campaings
play the sc2-campaigns on brutal xD :P
A bronze player can do that
Awesome Title😅
When sg came out, I was disappointed, because I had high hopes, but what I saw was painfully reminding me of wc3, which I hate (no need to take this personally, it just doesn't go along with my taste to this degree). I have no hope now, but I will check out sg from time to time. Who knows.
It's a mix of War3 and SC2. My issue is that there are no hero units so this type of gameplay simply does not feel good. Why would you want to kill creeps without a hero unit to level up? Just for the quick cash and that's not very satisfying at all. The action is on the slower side. Lots of flashy graphic effects with very little result. Warcraft 3 is a lot better than this game.
@@Ziegfried82 I know it and it doesn't matter to me, I'm a sc2 player, it feels to me too much like a bad copy of wc3, and I guess, to wc3 player it feels like a bad copy of sc2. What you said about hero makes some sense, for me it'd be a solid reason to not even try, I hate "dota-alike" type of gameplay.
Yeah, I think no matter, where you came from, the game where you are from is still uncomparably better.