You can only fold a standard piece of paper 7 times. After that it becomes too hard to fold. I think the 8 fold fence may have something to do with that. You all made me think of this when you spoke about creasing and folding.
Blackthorne was basically describing the eight fold fence when he was talking about walking along the Thames. All your problems disappear and you are totally present in the moment.
That Bonded them because you're right he basically described the same mentality only difference is Mariko Goes within to access this safe place, but Blackborne has to actually be at a physical location to tap into that same mindstate. It's like having to go to a certain Lake to meditate, while another person can meditate anywhere as long as its peaceful.
Fuji has a higher status and nobility than Omi, so he didn't have a choice but to bow down to her and apologize. In a way, I think this is one reason why Toranaga appointed her as John's consort, to 'protect' him
I didn't get that blackborn "You got your Lord's to serve" commentary as well. It confused me because It seems that Blackburne is a free agent he serve no lords because he admitted to Mariko that he wasn't really there under the Crowns orders.
I believe the actor that's playing Torenaga wasn't really on this episode because he s he producer of the show, and wears many hat's And probably had some other things to do.
Yabushige is some kind of "superior" lord in some sense over Omi. Idk how it works, but it's basically the difference between being an Earl or a Duke as compared to a Count or Baron. Count defers to his Baron, Baron defers to his Earl, Earls defer to their Dukes, Dukes subordinate to the King, Kings are subordinate to Emperors. "Shogun" is effectively "Prime Minister" equivalent...except purely as a matter of appointment or inheritance, not election. It also carries a military connotation. Natto is like...rice, soy beans, and just a big bacteria culture. That's why he said like cheese...because cheese is made by bacteria.
The more I think about it. The more I think Toranaga is gonna be very happy with his son. Cuz otherwise Jozen would have returned with news of their secret weapon and plans to break thru Ishido's castle walls. And it also forces Yabu to be fully on board to save his own skin.
@@jonsnow1973 I don't see how Mr. T would find out about Omi. Plus Yoshi got good results since Ishido sending Jozen out to steal away Yabu was an act of war.
Its a problem with many moving parts. On one hand, if Toranaga’s son didnt do what he did, Jozen would return to ishido and he would, in turn, know that cannons were effective afterall. On the otherhand, given its one reagent against four, Totanaga needs all the time he can get to arrange his Army, make alliances, flip enemies to his side etc…now thats put the window.
Natto is fermented soy. It's also eaten in the US today to strengthen bones and remove calcium from tissues and arteries. Vitamin K2 is what's in it. There are a ton of videos on UA-cam about it.
@@OystersClamsCockles Maybe because the writers knew about Natto and how it's caught on here as a health thingy. There is no way in hell I would EVER eat Natto .I take K2, but just the thought of smelly Natto. No thanks.
@@cas5324 Given these observations about it. Wouldn't Natto be considered a "peasant" food? And not befitting of Blackthorne's new status. Cuz the food on his plate looked like very tasty sushi and meticulously prepared. Plus Natto sounds like something kids don't want to eat either cuz of the way it smells. In this way, Blackthorne is endearing himself to his new suitors.
The "Eight Fold Fence" comes from an ancient Japanese legend of the slaying of the dragon "Yamato-no-Orochi" by the god Susanoo-no-mikoto. Basically the dude builds a fortified octagon called an "eight-fold fence" to protect a princess named Inada from the dragon.
Definitely check out the podcast put out by the show. They explained an eightfold fence is all-encompassing (8 has ties to infinite/non-ending in the language), and has origins in a Japanese creation myth. I'm paraphrasing terribly, but definitely check it out for the explanation.
Fuji went way up on the waifu tier-list in this episode, and not because he pulled the gun on Omi-dono (as badass as that scene was). Remember, she hated the idea of serving a foreigner. But then, as soon as he sees Blackthorne in a new light via his apology and gifting her his finest gun, she offers her father’s sword, which would be a family heirloom and a symbol of their honor. Again, the episode started with her saying in no uncertain terms that she does not want to be a consort of this barbarian, so that gesture would be unbelievable, or even inconcievable. Heck Yabushige, and most likely the rest of the samurai, were flabergasted (and probably insulted) that, bannerman or not, a foreigner of unknown birth was wearing two swords. On another side note, Kiku is getting too much screentime to NOT be working for someone.
got to remember its a book being converted time gets compressed things get skipped over or shortened , Mariko and jon basically start disgusted at each other the Village training is months in the book things happen a lot slower. there was a lot more conflict between her religion and Blackthorne , they have opted to give them an arc that fits in TV. Kiku the courtesan , its not something we have a parallel to and prostitute doesnt really fit they have them to. she is a good meal , song, a play she entertains as a complete package , and she has standing she ranks around the same sort of place as village headman , shes below any samurai but only just. it would be totally acceptable for a wife to hire her for her husband as gift.
Maybe Toranaga left so quickly because he knew that Jozen or someone like him was likely to show up with an order for him to return to Osaka, leaving him in the same dilemma as Yabushige found himself?
I'm watching Tokyo Vice on HBO as well. And you definitely see how the modern-day yakuza resemble OG samurai. They even still prefer to fight with the blade as a matter of honor.
I kinda feel like the Portuguese gave Yabu a rigged demonstration of canons. Because why would the Catholics teach the Japanese how to use the canons properly?
@@OystersClamsCockles you can also see Blackthorne teaching them cannons using vector calculation in the scene. the real-life English pilot that inspires Blackthorne character was an expert in mathematics amongst other subjects.
They call Fuji a "consort" but she is technically his wife. He married into her noble family. Its why he marries Fuji and not Mariko because Fuji is a daughter of a general, and as Mariko hints at in this episode, Mariko comes from an "infamous" family.
@OystersClamsCockles Gotcha. That's understandable. For a show like this it may not be a bad idea because they do provide some context for things like Eight Fold Fence. Evidently it's not a translation that is easily converted to English. That said, even listening to the podcast, there wasn't a super clear connection to the greater themes of the show besides what we already knew.
I can't get enough of Shogun so I started watching the companion podcast as well. Usually, I don't bother with most shows but this culture is really like another world.
I'd hate to sound like that asshole but I highly recommend reading Dune. You get a much better understanding of the Benne Gesserit plan and goal. Along with a better understanding of Paul, Chani, and Lady Jessica's motives. Pretty poor representation of Chani throughout the movies there must be an original spin-off coming that isn't Dune Messiah.
You guys (and other reaction channels to this show for that matter) should get some Natto. And eat it. Live. While reacting to the latest episode. That would get the views WAAAAAAAY up. Do it.
Is it just me or is there TOO much blackthorn and not enough Toranaga? Give me more of the actually man vying for SHOGUN and not the wacky, swashbuckling British scallywag.
I think someone on the Ringer was talking about how this might be due to the way we get so much of Toranaga’s plot through his thoughts. He bops around in the book a lot and this might just be a way for the show to continue to give the audience moment and an “in” to the world. A lot of the book is Blackthorn getting to a place where he can negotiate the world.
I think the 8 fold fence is origami. Also I don’t like Blackthorne. He is the worst. I guess he’s getting Ty a redemption arc somewhere. Everything the reveal about him is one kind of atrocity over another.
You can only fold a standard piece of paper 7 times. After that it becomes too hard to fold. I think the 8 fold fence may have something to do with that. You all made me think of this when you spoke about creasing and folding.
Blackthorne was basically describing the eight fold fence when he was talking about walking along the Thames. All your problems disappear and you are totally present in the moment.
That Bonded them because you're right he basically described the same mentality only difference is Mariko Goes within to access this safe place, but Blackborne has to actually be at a physical location to tap into that same mindstate. It's like having to go to a certain Lake to meditate, while another person can meditate anywhere as long as its peaceful.
Fuji has a higher status and nobility than Omi, so he didn't have a choice but to bow down to her and apologize. In a way, I think this is one reason why Toranaga appointed her as John's consort, to 'protect' him
Omg ... Mr. T is always thinking.
Great call!
Yabushige is honestly my favorite character, his sense of humour and love of life is just fun to watch
I really like him too. I almost forgot he boiled a man alive. But I still like him. He's funny without trying to be funny.
I didn't get that blackborn "You got your Lord's to serve" commentary as well. It confused me because It seems that Blackburne is a free agent he serve no lords because he admitted to Mariko that he wasn't really there under the Crowns orders.
Kiko is sexy. I think she the mole Yabu is looking for. She may be also be one of those elite assassins that are Buddhist.
Omi may be a lot more intelligent than he seems.
I believe the actor that's playing Torenaga wasn't really on this episode because he s he producer of the show, and wears many hat's And probably had some other things to do.
Love the consistency of the upload times. 5:45pm, Wednesdays on the dot.
Doing our best! Thanks for being here
Yabushige is some kind of "superior" lord in some sense over Omi. Idk how it works, but it's basically the difference between being an Earl or a Duke as compared to a Count or Baron. Count defers to his Baron, Baron defers to his Earl, Earls defer to their Dukes, Dukes subordinate to the King, Kings are subordinate to Emperors.
"Shogun" is effectively "Prime Minister" equivalent...except purely as a matter of appointment or inheritance, not election. It also carries a military connotation.
Natto is like...rice, soy beans, and just a big bacteria culture. That's why he said like cheese...because cheese is made by bacteria.
Blackburn feels like a prisoner whenever he's on land. That's why he was sitting in the rain. It's kind of Ironic since he doesnt like taking baths.😂
The more I think about it. The more I think Toranaga is gonna be very happy with his son. Cuz otherwise Jozen would have returned with news of their secret weapon and plans to break thru Ishido's castle walls. And it also forces Yabu to be fully on board to save his own skin.
Not a bad point. That's entirely possible.
I think he'll be more upset that his son let himself be manipulated by Omi more than his actions
@@jonsnow1973 I don't see how Mr. T would find out about Omi. Plus Yoshi got good results since Ishido sending Jozen out to steal away Yabu was an act of war.
Its a problem with many moving parts.
On one hand, if Toranaga’s son didnt do what he did, Jozen would return to ishido and he would, in turn, know that cannons were effective afterall.
On the otherhand, given its one reagent against four, Totanaga needs all the time he can get to arrange his Army, make alliances, flip enemies to his side etc…now thats put the window.
8-fold could be an allusion to the 8-fold noble path, which is the path to enlightenment in buddhism
Thank you for clarifying the "courtesan" thing with Mariko, because the convo in front of Fuji made me go "but wait. . . I thought it was Mariko!?"
Haha yeah they intentionally confused us a little bit there
my take on these chapter titles, they are running themes throughout the series. not specifically for that particular episode.
Natto is fermented soy. It's also eaten in the US today to strengthen bones and remove calcium from tissues and arteries. Vitamin K2 is what's in it. There are a ton of videos on UA-cam about it.
Why were they so funny about it?
@@OystersClamsCockles Maybe because the writers knew about Natto and how it's caught on here as a health thingy. There is no way in hell I would EVER eat Natto .I take K2, but just the thought of smelly Natto. No thanks.
To my knowledge, natto is an acquired taste, like blue cheese, stinky tofu or durian.
@@cas5324 Given these observations about it. Wouldn't Natto be considered a "peasant" food? And not befitting of Blackthorne's new status. Cuz the food on his plate looked like very tasty sushi and meticulously prepared. Plus Natto sounds like something kids don't want to eat either cuz of the way it smells. In this way, Blackthorne is endearing himself to his new suitors.
The "Eight Fold Fence" comes from an ancient Japanese legend of the slaying of the dragon "Yamato-no-Orochi" by the god Susanoo-no-mikoto. Basically the dude builds a fortified octagon called an "eight-fold fence" to protect a princess named Inada from the dragon.
Thank you!
Definitely check out the podcast put out by the show. They explained an eightfold fence is all-encompassing (8 has ties to infinite/non-ending in the language), and has origins in a Japanese creation myth. I'm paraphrasing terribly, but definitely check it out for the explanation.
We try to avoid the official podcast so we're only coming with our own original thoughts and takes here, but good to know they explain it!
Fuji went way up on the waifu tier-list in this episode, and not because he pulled the gun on Omi-dono (as badass as that scene was). Remember, she hated the idea of serving a foreigner. But then, as soon as he sees Blackthorne in a new light via his apology and gifting her his finest gun, she offers her father’s sword, which would be a family heirloom and a symbol of their honor. Again, the episode started with her saying in no uncertain terms that she does not want to be a consort of this barbarian, so that gesture would be unbelievable, or even inconcievable. Heck Yabushige, and most likely the rest of the samurai, were flabergasted (and probably insulted) that, bannerman or not, a foreigner of unknown birth was wearing two swords.
On another side note, Kiku is getting too much screentime to NOT be working for someone.
got to remember its a book being converted time gets compressed things get skipped over or shortened , Mariko and jon basically start disgusted at each other the Village training is months in the book things happen a lot slower. there was a lot more conflict between her religion and Blackthorne , they have opted to give them an arc that fits in TV.
Kiku the courtesan , its not something we have a parallel to and prostitute doesnt really fit they have them to. she is a good meal , song, a play she entertains as a complete package , and she has standing she ranks around the same sort of place as village headman , shes below any samurai but only just. it would be totally acceptable for a wife to hire her for her husband as gift.
That's really interesting about Kiku. Thanks for the insight!
Maybe Toranaga left so quickly because he knew that Jozen or someone like him was likely to show up with an order for him to return to Osaka, leaving him in the same dilemma as Yabushige found himself?
This show makes me want to rewatch black sails
I need to watch that one still -Ross
I'm watching Tokyo Vice on HBO as well. And you definitely see how the modern-day yakuza resemble OG samurai. They even still prefer to fight with the blade as a matter of honor.
@@Stress-Free-KI’m watching that too. Great show
8-fold fence is the compartmentalization of the mind
I kinda feel like the Portuguese gave Yabu a rigged demonstration of canons. Because why would the Catholics teach the Japanese how to use the canons properly?
I got the impression they just had less accurate cannons prior -Ross
@@OystersClamsCockles you can also see Blackthorne teaching them cannons using vector calculation in the scene. the real-life English pilot that inspires Blackthorne character was an expert in mathematics amongst other subjects.
They call Fuji a "consort" but she is technically his wife. He married into her noble family. Its why he marries Fuji and not Mariko because Fuji is a daughter of a general, and as Mariko hints at in this episode, Mariko comes from an "infamous" family.
Are you guys listening to the companion podcasts for this show?
We are not. Too conflicting in doing our own with our own takes and opinions.
@OystersClamsCockles Gotcha. That's understandable. For a show like this it may not be a bad idea because they do provide some context for things like Eight Fold Fence. Evidently it's not a translation that is easily converted to English. That said, even listening to the podcast, there wasn't a super clear connection to the greater themes of the show besides what we already knew.
I can't get enough of Shogun so I started watching the companion podcast as well. Usually, I don't bother with most shows but this culture is really like another world.
Natto is known to be viewed as slimy and disgusting to people who arent used to it.
Did they post a dune video? I don’t see it
I'd hate to sound like that asshole but I highly recommend reading Dune. You get a much better understanding of the Benne Gesserit plan and goal. Along with a better understanding of Paul, Chani, and Lady Jessica's motives. Pretty poor representation of Chani throughout the movies there must be an original spin-off coming that isn't Dune Messiah.
🙄
@@OystersClamsCocklesok fine I listened to the audio book.
@@colinmullooly9999 hahahaha
You guys (and other reaction channels to this show for that matter) should get some Natto. And eat it. Live. While reacting to the latest episode. That would get the views WAAAAAAAY up.
Do it.
Is it just me or is there TOO much blackthorn and not enough Toranaga? Give me more of the actually man vying for SHOGUN and not the wacky, swashbuckling British scallywag.
I think someone on the Ringer was talking about how this might be due to the way we get so much of Toranaga’s plot through his thoughts. He bops around in the book a lot and this might just be a way for the show to continue to give the audience moment and an “in” to the world. A lot of the book is Blackthorn getting to a place where he can negotiate the world.
I kinda figured that would even out some in the second half of the season, but definitely an imbalance so far -Ross
I think the 8 fold fence is origami. Also I don’t like Blackthorne. He is the worst. I guess he’s getting Ty a redemption arc somewhere. Everything the reveal about him is one kind of atrocity over another.
Still the worst intro music ever but love your takes on shows
I love your content guys, but please get rid of that intro music, it is beyond obnoxious