Beretta AR 70/90 to 500yds: Practical Accuracy
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- Опубліковано 4 тра 2022
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The Beretta AR70/90 draws lineage to the SIG SG530, which was a joint project between SIG (not Sig Sauer) and Beratta to create a next-generation 5.56-.223 type rifle to compete with the M16. While the partnership project ultimately dissolved, both SIG and Beretta used the blueprints of the SG530 to generate their own 5.56 rifle designs, SIG with the SG540 and SG550... and Beretta with the AR70.
Years later the system was modernized to the AR 70/90 to also integrate a host of improvements, including the STANAG magazine, and was formally adopted for Italian Army military use in 1990.
Within the Italian military, the AR70/90 is cherished as an absolutely reliable machine that will never fail, and many Italian soldiers prefer it over the more accurate, but also more fragile ARX160.
So how did the rifle do on Practical Accuracy? We find out.
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Italian Soldiers and service members, we want to hear from you, how accurate was your AR 70/90?
In speaking with an Italian Paratrooper (Matteo), he told us that the cherished quality of the AR70/90 is it's reliability and simplicity. He said that the rifle wasn't bad for 250m targets.
"it's a rifle that you can count on, I used an SCP variant as a paratrooper and it always fired when I needed it to. I've personally destroyed 2x ARX160. One malfunction and the other where I broke the stock hinge area."
"You can throw, hit jump and use [the AR 70/90] even like a shovel and it will not break. During airborne jumps, I saw an ARX160 break in half... but when you have the SCP (AR 70/90 para variant), your leg is what will break in half instead!"
So Italian Service Memebers, tell us!
arx 160 is junk, here in italy we make a lot of jokes about the "tonno" (tunna) rifle, expecially the fact that it cost an absurd ammount of money for the army that are totally out of mind for a rifle with that great ammount of polymers in it, beretta is making too much money at the expenses of the state and so, the cityzen.
I was issued the SC70/90 version for mountain troops. Really sturdy and reliable rifle, easy to maintain and disassemble.
Yes, the carryhandle and bipod are a bit bulky and redundant, so I took them off and carried them in my backpack basically all the time. It looked more FNCesque (therefore cooler) that way, and of course having a couple ounces less to carry in your arms was definitely a pro. Also, it was easier to aim without that ugly handle in the way.
I have used the standard fixed stock rifle for one year, and it was reliable and accurate (battlefield accuracy) up to 200-250 meters. ARX is not robust as this one.
@@matteoorlandi856 Maybe it is just me, but it seems that almost every new design (from ALL manufacturers) is absurdly priced, and arguably not as durable as the stuff that came out during the Cold War.
This is only my opinion, but it seems like a lot more care and consideration was made for these types of things when it was thought that another big, giant multi-nation "world war" was just around the corner.
When you watch an AK under slow motion, you can actually see the opposite force from the gas pushing the piston at the gas block. It pushes the barrel down and whips it around.
It's really as simple as having moving parts over/connected to your barrel beyond the receiver. AR15 does not have this, so it's easier to make generally more accurate.
I loved the can of genuine Italian cuisine you had sitting next to you while doing this. You really do your detailed research, and it shows with your homage to whichever country's rifle your using.
If it weren't for live ammo, we'd have a more lively conversation with a box of Franzia wine with an invitation to you if you brought your favorite chucky cheese pizza pie.
Olive Garden is the best Italian food
No no no, Throwback is authentic! Regular can is Americano bastardization!
Chef Boyardee! The master!
"It's in the tin, I don't have to heat it up."
My man! It is a shame folks just don't understand!
I never served, but all my friends who did attested to the fact that the 70/90 is a battlefield gun: highly reliable and nigh indestructible. As for accuracy, they told me that they consistently trained at 250mt and often 300, and it was considered pretty optimal, but beyond that it was supposed to be for suppression only.
Worth noting that when I was in the Canadian Army, the 20' C7 was doctrinally only considered effective to 300m in the hands of an individual and 600m in the hands of a section of soldiers engaging a singular target. Obviously, the C7 can stretch its legs further, but militaries generally recognize that 300m is the upper limit for effective rifle fire in combat. I'm certain that the 70/90 is less accurate than AR-15-pattern rifles, but even if it is, a 3.5-4MOA rifle is still good enough out to 300m. Anyway, the 70/90 is cool as hell.
Currently Serving in Italy, used It for a while.
Extremely reliable -extremely heavy...a Rugged rifle.
Talking about precision, i Remember shooting an entire Mag in a 3" Square.
The distance was 100 meters (prone shooting with the issued bipod) and i'm not as good as Mr. Chan: i suppose that something went "wrong" in the assembly process.
Not that the rifle Is capable of assolute precision: It was designed and adopted while the Italian army was made vastly by conscripts....everybody can understand that (with Italian's defense budgets, which are significantly lower than USA defense budgets) we were looking for a reliable, simple and enough precise rifle.
Great fan of yours, keep shooting! (Hope i wrote in an undestandable english...it's been a while!)
Grazie for the feedback! I think the AR70/90 suits the Italian philosophy with conscripts well.
@@9HoleReviews indeed, a good adversary's rifle for the AK74.
Love how we can see bullet trail when the image is stabilized. Awesome.
The Italians will be pissed that Chef Boyardee is near their rifle.
One of the oddest-looking iron sights I've ever seen. Quite unique, fitting for such a rifle!
fun fact: the carry handle is detacheable and not integral to the rear sight. It can be replaced by a picatinny section to install optics/dots. In fact, if you remove the carry handle, the rifle looks like a slightly chonkier FNC
nope. that's the carry handle, not the sights.
however the carry handle does have sights on it...but they are weird and shitty imo...front and rear sight on a carry handle.im guessing they were for very close range.
9-Hole is the perfect balance of class and professionalism mixed with eating canned ravioli while talking about an Italian rifle 😁
I always remember the old mechanics joke about engine design.
The American says we will build it with 25 parts and make it cheap. The Japanese engineer states we will use 35 parts and make it with precision. The German says he can do it with 18 parts and make it sturdy. The Italian designer uses 50 parts but it will be beautiful.
When it comes to mechanical engineering and workmanship just go to Japan, Germany or Czech Rep.
Somehow I doubt the Germans would be the one using the least parts...
The swiss says "we will build it with all of the above and 150 parts"
German would be: I need 50 parts but it also works as a refrigerator.
Beautifully made parts, assembled into the most unreliable p.o.s. you've ever seen.
That's not true though. The parts themselves are typically poorly made.
Here in Italy most of those who have used the AR70/90 for service regret it's been replaced by the ARX160. It was heavier but reliable and indestructible, features that don't seem to matter much anymore. Several specimens are now available for sale to the public, transformed into semi-auto in accordance with Italian law. The prices, however, are unfortunately quite high
Ah yes, the unholy tuna.
ARX is extraordinarily reliable more accurate lighter and allows use of optics and nv devices easiet
@@cookie5535 did you not read the pinned comment? Specifically the part where it says "on parachute jumps, I saw an ARX break in half"
AR70/90 High priced hot garbage 🗑 😒... I'd take a Arx 160 over it anyday.
@@einsteincat5298 let's be honest here: all armies have horror stories about rifles that might not exactly be accurate.
IDK if the ARX is good or bad but it's EXTREMELY typical for soldiers to diss the "modern gun". Look at the G36.
For kids of the early nineties this is the the "other" gun my gi joes used, classic! Great to see!
It's always nice when an Italian gun makes its way to your channel. 🇮🇹 💖
BM59 next? :)
I think that fake Italian canned food interfered with the rifle's operation
7:13
Clanky STANAG noises make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside
Stabilization is a welcome addition. We can see the rounds and impacts so much better!
Well would you look at that! My service rifle (2003-2004)
@@northpointaxe6167 was it Italy?
So how did it do in active service for you?
@@northpointaxe6167 Italian army. This rifle was the one before the ARX 160
@@CCXRS7 this wasn't a rifle you would expect perform like a modern AR type. Up to 250 meters was pretty spot on and very reliable.
@@northpointaxe6167 a Beretta rifle and you have to ask which nation adopted it for service?
Ciao! My father has one demilitarised AR70/90 (semi auto only) with a very nice barrel. It can shoot decent 2 inches groups with iron sights at 100 meters. It’s a heavy rifle but it’s really rugged and sturdy and recoil is very soft. Greetings from Italy! Felice anno nuovo!
The variations of the bullets' paths are amazing.
Image stabilization is a gift from god.
So cool! I've since I saw the AR70 in my old gun books as a kid I wanted one. Thanks for making this video!
Same here.
In México the Beretta 70/90 and the Arx 160 are the principal rifles in mostly all police corps in the country, local and state police.
A well balanced review, as usual, allow me to say.
Interesting and well present without a hint of bias, which is difficult especially these day.
Well done and keep these videos coming 😄😄😄
Hands down it’s not a marksman but you still push it to its limit great work Henry and spotter
Another great video!!! Thank you guys
Not sure why, but that thing to my eye, is just a damn good looking rifle.
I'm Italian and I've never ever seen Chef Boyardee ravioli xD Though now I kinda want to try them, for science.
oh i'm ashamed of it if you try it! It tastes like MRE "italian food", which I used to keep between my IBA and my body when on patrol to warm up and eat when we were pulling security.
Side note, the medics don't like that because if you get shot there's red sauce mixed into stuff.
@@9HoleReviews lol, "he's bleeding out, oh god, there are chunks of flesh EVERYWHERE" it's ravioli...
@@9HoleReviews I mean... Now trying it is a matter of principle xD
@@9HoleReviews 😂
I purchased my AR70 back in 1994. Its one hell of an accurate rifle I can still remember trying to find mags back then. I paid $300 bucks for one at a gun show, it was the only one I could find after searching for 3 years. I am gonna go dig my AR 70 out today. Its been awhile since I have touched it.
First time ever seeing this rifle and all I can think of is a disfigured child of an FNC and an M16.
Looks like an Argentine fara 83 to me. COD Cold War vibes
It’s actually based on the Sig rifle.
Fun fact is that beretta asked colt to mfg the m16 under license.
Now that you mentioned it, it does. It looks like it has some stoner 63 in it too but that's kinda cheating, isn't it?
@@Frens03 wrong ...there was an initial collaboration beetwin beretta and sig.
I was waiting this!!
I appreciate this review of the Mini-14.
It’s neat to see the targets with the image stabilizer
Keep up the good work!!!
I’ve never heard of this thing before. Very interesting!
Hey, it's a pretty unique looking rifle in my eyes and in spite of the difficulties getting it under par, I'll bet that with better wind conditions, it'll handle things better.
But you done did good shootin', only hope to see more from our beloved 9 Hole Duo
*Also that subtle pained look from Josh as you consumed Chef Boyardee made my day*
They should have at least made it Spaghettios…with meatballs. It would be a step up from Chef Boyardee.
I've always thought it resembled an FNC with a carry handle bolted on top.
That's a spicy meatball 🤏 I agree with Henry, the ascetics are top notch 💯
Finally! you guys are awesome, now i can flex that i'm made of the same italian sheet metal
Man, on shot #29, you could see it was bang on until the wind tossed it aside at the last moment like a wicked curve ball.
Wow. That thing is one step up from a Rock.
Remember that although the M14 can be made to shoot 1 moa, a stock M14 is a 4 moa rifle. They were loos as a goose.
The M14 is 4 moa on a good day. A lot of them are worse than that.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography unless the crown has been destroyed by overzealous cleaning, a cigarette box cut up and used as shim between the stock and receiver would tighten up 98% of them.
You guys are awesome
22:05 A lot of people say the same thing about the FN FN-C, which is very similar mechanically to the AR-70/90.
I owned an FNC sporter .223. Great rifle with good accuracy. I shot it mostly suppressed with a 4-16x scope on it. It had a terrible factory trigger with a pull weight similar to the factory trigger in my FN Scar 17s.
Great content as always. Would love to see an L85 put through its paces
Good luck getting one.
@@humansvd3269 The better question is why would you want one
@@Paddy-zn4oo - Falling for the usual "L85 suxs, hUr dUr Hur" line eh? Ever used one, especially the A2 or A3 variants?
The L85 was always an accurate rifle, it's now matured into a reliable one too and has a proven track record in combat.
What is often forgotten by L85 detractors (who largely have never even touched one for real) is that the AR15 platform also had a terrible reputation when it was first released, but unlike the L85, the AR15 platform has been produced in such large numbers that issues were identified and dealt with sooner.
I've put thousands of rounds through various members of the SA80 family and I've had few issues that wouldn't also be expected from any other military-issued Western weapon system.
Muy bueno tu vídeo saludos desde Argentina
Nothing like the Pasta Fusil, with armor penne-tration rounds, making enemies upsetti spaghetti.
The AR/90 is beautiful Rifle
I saw the headline and initially I thought it was the ARX 100! 🤩
They already did a video with the ARX if you want to check it out
@@alexglenn2122 nice! I’ll look for it.
I was literally eating cold chef boyardee as Henry pulled one out 😂 great choice
Nice rifle!
That's a really good illustration of why wind drift and accuracy matter- if that had been a higher BC round or if the rifle had shot tighter it would have been a different story. Take a 5" group and shift it a quarter target- no big deal. A 20" group on the other hand- all of the sudden you miss more than you hit. Also have to wonder if that thing opens up significantly when its warm....
Great episode as usual.
Chef Boyardee is from Cleveland though 😂
Great reviews. Love the channel. Do you ever change who is shooting and who's scoping?
Interesting. Definitely performs to the specs it was designed for- and no better.
Not too bad for 55gr in the wind. Good shooting.
I think the above average accuracy of the AR-15 comes from its use of a barrel extension that is threaded on the barrel and then pinned. The bolt head spaces off the extension rather than a trunnion or receiver which is common in many other firearms. Its much easier to machine and achieve tight tolerances on the barrel extension which can be discarded during QA than it is for something like a receiver or trunnion which is a much more integral part of the firearm.
The gas piston being directly in line with the barrel does wonders for it, too. Pretty much all other autos run the piston parallel to the barrel, which means the gas system pushes the barrel in some direction.
@@immikeurnot Great point. I forgot about that design detail and how it might affect accuracy.
A bit of an odd question, but what would be y'all's thoughts on branching out to different styles of firearms? Is there a possibility shotguns (pump or semi-auto) or lever action firearms?
I think it would be a fun watch to see you guys break them down! I'm loving the content you guys work so hard on, keep up the awesome work(:
Chef Boyardee, the master!
i don't know, probably the rifle would perform better with 62 grains bullets, because here in italy it's a well known fact that they shoot better with 62 grains...
ho well... it's a kit rifle... that explain a lot.
Rifle is 1/7 twist?
@@Seth9809 yes, 70/90 are 1:7.
@@matteoorlandi856 yes you are right 1/7 twist , perfect with 62 grs , specially over 150/200 yds , it a good chanel and great shooter but I do not understand why they have used 55 grs bullet , mamma mia ! 😃
Loved the can of ravioli!!! Should have set it out at the 150 yard target and sent a few more downrange!
Magazine reviews back in the old days had AR70/90 getting 3-4” with 5 shots groups
Can we just appreciate Henry’s eating his food while being off screen 😂😂😂
What a hawk-eye.
In my teens I could not hit 300 yards with the basic training M16.
Damn, that 500 yard target has jukes!
A true battle field rifle. Ultimately I prefer reliability over accuracy and this rifle for a 5.56mm is one of the best. Still prefer the Swiss rifles but this ugly mutt always had a place whenever I seen one.
I am intrigued though what the results had been if you ran 62 or 77 gr projectiles through this beast. No need for a video but if you guys did do it I would love to hear about the result.
The time is right for RK62 with da proper ammo. Somebody, hook these gentlemen up!
My first centerfire rifle was a 03A3 Springfield. It was a 4 moa rifle, and it was a bolt gun. Most of the people who buy a AR70 want it because it's a AR70 not for outstanding accuracy.
PASA PARK on a windy day gets swirls.
The wind goes both directions at the same time. Left to right at the line right to left at the 600 yard line. Not often but sometimes it cancels its self out. When it doesn't it's difficult.
I was thinking "Hey, I don't remember Ian covering this gun, a miracle" but then double checked and nah, he has a video from 2017.
Air is a current, at Distance bullets can be forced down and up, and sideways, basically it is a 360 degree game with atmosphere. The farther you go out and as velocity decreases, you get the kind of effects you saw at 500.
I think the rifle was a bit handicapped by being a kit gun, non italian mil spec in barrel and other parts and by ammos.
Italian Army uses ammunitons loaded with 62 grs. ss109 ball and, i think, a hotter load then the Magtech which, as i know, are quite low in performance. In nearly 30 years of shooting i never remember to have seen those vortex in air caused by flying bullets.
If i'm not wrong for quite a years, in the '90 our army used Hirtenberger ammos in their AR, and then Fiocchi. It would be nice to try with similar loads. I' d like to see the readings of seedometer on those Magtech ammos but i bet they are too slow and too light for that wind.
Anyway, though a cousin of the swiss StG-90 the italian one is a cheaper and less refined rifle. A good rifle for WW3, robust and reliable but not an expensive and elegant rifle as the SIG.
That "vortex" is just swirl from atmospherics and the light being in the right direction, if you've never encountered it, then you've not shot in many varied conditions at long range, you see it all the time depending on lighting and air pressure with good glass. It has nothing to do with the ammo.
From what I've seen in chronograph tests, Magtech 62 grain has pretty similar velocities to SS109/M855, so I assume it's pretty close to NATO 5.56 pressures. Its not like he was shooting Fiocci or Wolf. But again, that's their 62 gr load.
Also, they used Magtech 62 grain in their M16A4 video and it matched the BDC on the carry handle perfectly, it was one of their best runs with iron sights to date for any rifle.
@@Ihasanart The maximum distance i was used to shoot is 600 m. with iron sights In a private shooting range in the alps and no. i never noted them.
Kept seeing this around when I was -binge- watching Narcos Mexico. Felt so familiar for some reason
oddly enough, Mexico did actually buy quite a lot of SC70/90
I’ve used a 70/90 along with a M16A1 (both are avaible to civilians here in Italy) and they performed the same with Fiocchi, Sellier Bellot and American Eagle 55 FMJ. With (cheap) handloads both were 2/2.5 MOA rifles while they were 3.5/5 MOA with commercial ammo. The M16A1 were much lighter then the Beretta. Now I own a 550 that is accurate like an AR15, sturdy like Ar70/90 and reliable like an AK.
That's true about the M16A1, they aren't as accurate as the A2. I'm also an SG550 fan!
@@9HoleReviews I’m in love with the M16A2 or A4. I’m looking for a Colt AR15A4, but they are so common here. 20” inches AR are cool!
@@GianmarcoLatcovich agreed again! The A2 and A4 are really such well shooting rifles!
Ar-70/90s are optimized for ss190/m885 so maybe try it with 62 grns next time 👍still I wouldn’t expect amazing accuracy out of a giant two lug long stroke rifle, it’s built for reliability and durability
I doubt it would have made much difference, so much as the flip sights. Henry has had trouble with all flip sight rifles - para FAL, M16A1, Galil, as well as red dots past 300 meters, for obvious reasons.
Those who have never been on a weeks long trip away from home that was not a holiday, will not comprehend how awesome a can of chunky soup or Chef Boyardee is after MRE's for days on end.
dude, the MRE apple sauce in an external pouch on a cold day (so it chills on its own). My fav snack when pulling security.
The Chef Boyardee triggered me! Stop! Make it go away! LOL 😂
Third best Italian rifle
There is one important thing to consider: your Ar70/90 is not original due to the Us laws. It is assembled from a part kit that it can't be the same as a factory made gun. It doesn't had the same quality control as the Beretta made rifles so the precision is worse. I can assure you, being italian and speaking to many friends who use this rifle at the range, that the original beretta rifle performs much better than yours (a fan of you channel and a competitive shooter claimed watching your video: "i'm a worse shooter than him but I can do much better with my original ar 70/90"). Anyway, love your channel, keep going!
On the note of barrels,
Many cheap AR barrels are good accuracy, however alot of the weird kit specific barrels are not made to the same spec. Take for example alot of the early AK barrels made. They were in many cases 1/10th the hardness of an original barrel. Sometimes US barrels are more accurate, but they also go the other way.
Also using 55 grain doesn't help when it comes to the wind. I think the elevation misses could have been wind as well, being carried up or down by a tail wind.
There is something truly special about all the 5.56 cold war/early 90’s type rifles. This looks far better than the ARX imho.
Henry- *eats cold Beefaroni*
Josh- *visible suffering*
NICE ONE 😎
The official service rifle of Erusea btw..
Gratuist cheese plate scene, how Wayne’s World-esque of you guys. Bravo.
OMG the Chef Boy R Dee scene was hilarious. I can't count the times I have cracked a can open and ate it straight out of the can lol.
I guess Henry has his post-apocalyptic groove on? Chowing down on Scavenged survival food?
Would you consider doing a video or post on the how to's of these kinds of kits? Particularly the legal side ie. 922r and avoiding being "easily converted"
the rails are wider/thicker than factory and the bolt has a tab in the full auto version so you need to remove the tab. then you weld holes in the full auto "cage" then weld that into the lower along with welding in the selector notches..thats just the short of it. 922r is easy to do as you can use standard metal ar15 mags(can use poly mags but those require modification) so mag is 3 parts, barrel,receiver is 5 parts right there for 922r
Josh you need a bit of distance to the microphone when out on the range. If it's clipping that can be improved later on by adjusting the level. This won't happen with a well adjusted limiter and you can have a base level for your videos.
It's in the Tin "I don't have to Heat it Up" LOL!🤣🤣
OMG, JUST NOTICED THE CAN!
Sometimes i wonder when we gonna see a Valmet/Sako rifle in the Chanel 🤔
Chef Boyardee, the Master!
Chef Boyardi can got me. Genuine Italian cuisine.
WE USED TO CALL IT THE VIOLIN, BECAUSE IT SOUNDED GOOD !
You should do a vid on the Carcano M91
It’s a pretty interesting rifle 🤟🤟🤟🔥🔥🔥
Chef Boyardee...ahh the lunch of champions!
Part of the first 1000 shots!
Loved my Sig 550 and 556 both were 3 to 4 moa .. Just was not bailey with the accuracy either he's not making it up at wll.. But the Sig was a cool gun ilk say that .. Second kinda cool off the charts
0:23 lol, a man of culture
Unrelated, but are y'all going to bring back Josh's pistol/PCC course?
I've been debating on building a 70/90 since it's got that weird Cold War aesthetic. A SAR80 is also on the list! Have you considered an AR-180 on the review to compare piston driven 5.56 rifles? I've got an early Costa Mesa that I'd be happy to loan to the show!
Henry should include more of his fine dining experiences in every recap portion of the videos! Great videos as usual !
Velveta brand Mac and Cheese with he M16A2?
@@9HoleReviews 🤣