there's a darker reason why sarah lynn had the same voice from child to adult, because the "little girl voice" is a form of arrested development in adolescent sexual assault victims.
If her step father did sexually abuse her it would explain why Bojack, another father figure, is someone she goes out of her way to sleep with him after violent confrontations, because that's how she learned as a child that she had to make up with older men when bad things happen. Bojack choosing to sleep with her was not only creepy but actively predatory and preying upon her sexual trauma.
I know I'm not the only one, but I've lost multiple family members to similar overdoses. The fact that Bojack waited 17 minutes, I wouldn't be able to forgive someone for that if they weren't a cartoon horse.
Ngl I still hate Bojack for all the things he did to Sarah Lynn directly and indirectly. He had the chance to save her, even years before her overdose. He had the chance to be the parent figure he wished he had himself. Instead, he decided to use her like everyone else did. Herb and Sharona were the only people who ever cared about Sarah Lynn and they were forcibly cut out of her life because of Bojack.
@OliverOils Yeah that was absolutely shitty of Bojack. But I'd like to think that his life would have gotten worse if he stayed in contact with Bojack. Todd perfectly pointed out that Herb seemed to have lived a much better life after Bojack ghosted him. Their friendship was already strained because Bojack turned into a diva. So I think that Herb kinda dodged a bullet here.
What Bojack did to Sarah Lynn was absolutely unforgivable and he failed her in every way possible: - He traumatized her as a child by telling her to keep dancing no matter what. - He left his alcohol out there and got her drunk. - He ignored her comments about her father being creepy - He got Sharona and Herb fired who were the only ones who actually cared for her and tried to protect her. - He broke her heart when she was desperately craving for a genuine relationship. - He never took genuine interest in her hobbies or listened to her problems. Nor did he sympathize with her for her awful family situation. - He slept with her even though he said that she's like a daughter to him. - He made her relapse and go on a drug bender with him because he felt miserable and he didn't care about her health. - He waited 17 minutes before calling an ambulance, thus letting her die to save his own ass.
@p1xelmissile Not really. In season 6, Angela revealed that Herb wouldn't have been fired if Bojack insisted on leaving together with him. The scandal about Herb being gay would've died down in a while, but they couldn't risk losing Bojack as the main star of the show. So technically, Bojack choosing Secretariat over his best friend was the reason why Herb got fired.
Bojack did not get Herb fired. He failed to follow through with his threat to leave the show, but given how severe the homophobia of the 90s was, they probably would have just cancelled the show rather than keep Herb on.
@@thirdpedalnirvana they wouldn’t have and BoJack didn’t know that, the situation with Herb is, in my opinion, not his fault from his perspective it’s giving up your childhood dream for a life of uncertainty with your best friend, i understand his choice; Herb can’t be mad that they didn’t keep in touch, nobody is obligated to call you, if he really wanted to talk to BoJack he could’ve called
It was disgusting. Bojack kills, the drug was the one that pushed her over to edge and Bojack Horseman pulled her into the hole he buried himself so far in.
It would almost be more forgivable if it were a rational plan, if he calculated that he had to wait that long to avoid being held responsible. He could have called immediately and told them that they had been doing drugs together but he didn't know she had taken the Heroin or where she got it from. The truly chilling part of it is that those 17 minutes WEREN'T a calculated attempt to avoid punishment. They were 17 minutes of irrational panic, where BoJack was more concerned with HIMSELF than HER. He wasn't thinking "oh my god Sarah Lynn is dying" he was thinking "oh my god, what have I done, how can I face the world again, woe is me".
The fact that bojack ended 4 years ago and people are STILL making content about it really shows just how valuable this show is. Keep doing what you’re doing!
It's extremely chilling to get all the hints that her stepfather abused her sexually and then see later in the show how arguably, he shows more care and compassion for her than her mother ever did. He is the only person in the world who actually seems to care about her as a person, and given this background knowledge, that's incredibly depressing.
no please praise the voice cast, the characters wouldn’t be the same without the actors mannerisms or tone when speaking and delivering lines IT IS A VALID FACTOR
aaron paul as well! the way he delivers some of todds lines wouldn’t have the same punch they have if he wasnt monotone or when you can hear the emotion without seeing the actual voice actor.
@@eileensnow6153when his voice breaks at the end of season 1 begging Diane to tell him he’s a good person…conveying that much pain in just one sentence.
@macie3830 I got chills when he gives Bo Jack the "You need to be better" speech. His plays Todd as a silly goofy sometimes monotone little guy, and when he delivers those lines. Huuuuf.
As for what you said about her being an vessel for moneymaking that everyone around her used ... the horrifying thing is that that's the true story for so many women in the entertainment industry IRL. Her life seems like a mix of Jeanette McCurdy, Britney Spears, and the Olsen Twins.
The more I learn about the arc that child actors/actresses take in life due to their early fame, the more respect I have for the way WB handled Harry Potter. Rupert decided he didn't want to be a famous actor anymore and just like... retired, and happily drives around in an ice cream van giving kids free ice cream. Emma very much took ownership of her own career and starred in some great movies, then given the choice between continued stardom while keeping her mouth shut or being politically active and it jeopardizing her career, she smartly chose to be genuine even if it isn't the most lucrative choice. And Daniel both seems to be an extremely well adjusted person and continues to be a talented Actor - yet one who works only on his own terms. I don't know what they did differently with Harry Potter, but I think they deserve credit for NOT ruining their child stars' lives like so many others.
@@thirdpedalnirvana Part of the Harry Potter Cast children is in prison, addicted, mentally ill, dead or disabled now. It happens. The Major influencial aspect would be the family. Like for everyone else. The majority of the "Disney ruined that Star" "Stars" I have never heard of prior to their fall. We are Honestly looking at hundreds of kids - of course some will turn out not fine. That's not Hollywood - That's just statistics.
Part of me wonders what would have happened if Sarah Lynn had survived the overdose. Would she have realized how toxic and messed up her relationship with Bojack was and cut ties with him completely or shrug it off and make a joke? With a show like Bojack Horseman it honestly could have gone either way
I feel like that would've caused her to spiral out of control even further. Maybe she woulve reconnected with healthy people in her life, like Sharona?
@@myas.6485 Yeah, maybe it would've pushed to fully stick with recovering from her alcohol and drug addictions. She was already in a much better mental and physical state while recovering before she went on the bender, so her nearly dying would've really solidified to her how contrasting and better her life is when she doesn't do drugs.
@@BratzRockAngelsI think this is true. Additionally, if Bojack had sacrificed his public opinion to save Sarah Lynn's life, Sarah Lynn would have finally felt like someone had done something selfless for her out of love.
We probably would have had a sobriety arc with Sarah Lynn/ stepping out of the lime light arc. Could have been interesting with Bojack in later seasons essentially sobering up and due to how he shat the bed he's unlikely to get any major acting roles in Hollywood ever again imo.
I'm glad Bojack was in jail at the end of the series. He never truly cared for her. Not in the way that mattered. Its also really creepy and uncomfortable he had sex with Sarah Lynn. Like, eww.
@@RealNapoleonBonaparte81569 They aren't saying that aging is bad. They're saying how a many people will treat women like badly when they show signs of aging because they're no longer "attractive"
There's this character in Norse mythology called a Nokken. It takes the form of a stallion that lures children to bodies of water and lets them touch him, then their hands get stuck and he drags them down under the water to their death.
small note since this show has been my special intrest since highschool- the flowers in this show are JUST as important in this show as the paintings are -white roses : death, can also mean loyalty - hydrangeas : forgivness, regret, deep understanding (bojack hands these to his mother in the veiw from halfways down, only AFTER free churo) the red ones he gives her represent him showing her love and her rejecting him
While I would say what Bojack did was vile, you cannot compare the situations. Walter was completly sober and wanted Jane dead because she was pullimg Jesse away from him. He saw her actively dying, choking, he even saw her looking at him while she was choking, and he did NOTHING. Bojack thought Sarah Lynn was already dead. Its still vile he left her like that, that he felt so little remorse he lied and metaphorically stepped over her dead body to save himself. But its nowhere near as bad as what Walter did
@@user-pi3hd2bt3fBojack might have convinced himself she was already dead, but he had overdosed in his life multiple times already (as we learned from the View From Halfway Down), so he also knew that overdose deaths don't happen instantaneously and that calling someone to help you in time is CRUCIAL. He was furious with Diane for failing to save him when she was in *Chicago* but couldn't lift a finger to save Sarah Lynn who was in his arms.
And so many people exist in real life that are just like Bo Jack. I know people who have had horrific shit happen to them or their loved ones such as death and they/the people around them don't change or it takes something extreme to make them finally start to wake up.
I’m binge watching so much content and the 17 minutes reveal is so real and so brutal. Like, it’s cold but 100% in character for him at his most cold and selfish and self-centered, and she pays the price for it, and he could never take that back. Her bit about sacrifice in “the view from halfway down” really got me. Like Diane, she had to make her suffering mean something
I don't find Sarah Lynn to be a lovable character, but the sympathy comes from how *she should have been different* . She *should* have been Sarah Himmelfarb, architect to many of Hollywoo(d/b)'s elite. I think the last person to treat her as a person rather than a product was Herb, which is why she bothered to show up to his funeral, even if she was too zonked out on a cocktail of drugs to care. And my moment of losing faith in BoJack came during the final 10 minutes of Escape from LA, but my moment of outright hating him came in the 17 minutes reveal. I actually regained a LOT of faith in him once she died, since the ending of That's Too Much Man implied she died in his arms, he rushed to get an ambulance and ran away from his life to not deal with how he couldn't save her, not to mention S4 showing BoJack at his best, least selfish and most emotionally involved. I thought her death was his wake-up call to not let anyone else in his life fall down that path, that he was taking this second chance at fatherhood with Hollyhock. Sarah Lynn isn't BoJack's worst MISTAKE, she's the worst ATROCITY he committed. He let her die. He was sober enough to cover his track at the cost of watching her fade away until it was reasonable to call an ambulance! This goes beyond Todd, Gina, or even Penny. This should be at the very least second-degree murder. You can't help but ask: What he if HADN'T waited? Would the near-death experience, alongside all the realizations throughout their bender, gotten Sarah Lynn to give recovery an honest shot? To finally start addressing her trauma and use all the money she didn't need before to put herself through a GED and then architect school? BoJack didn't just murder a 32 year old young woman, he murdered a child who had her life stolen but *could have reclaimed her future* .
Jokes on you, I always listen to the end to hear all the gibberish! But no, really, Sarah Lynn's life is really tragic from start to finish. I felt so conflicted about liking Bojack once we found out about the 17 minutes. It just made me so angry that a death could've been preventable. But he was willing to put himself so he wouldn't get in trouble over Sarah Lynn, and that's just so horrible in itself.
It was such a smart move on the writers to delay revealing that bojack waited 17 minutes to call an ambulance. Prior to the reveal it grants him some plausible deniability for his actions and plays on your attachment to him as the pov character. By the time that conversation happens just like the rest of the characters, that moment is history however when it’s dropped it puts you in the same position as the rest of the cast seeing bojack do something so repugnant and unforgivable and having to reckon with that
Just a small thing that I haven't seen anyone talk about is that we never really see her dressed how SHE wants to dress, and I don't even think she knows how. As a kid she's dressed in really cute and innocent dungarees and she wears that little kid outfit the whole run of the show until she's a preteen, wearing the exact same outfit but with different shoes because her role IS the cute little innocent one of the family even though it looks a bit uncomfortable and illfitting. Then we see her when she's 18 wearing something that's both youthful and sexy because she's trying to shed the her pure little kid persona. It's very spot on with what older-teen/young adult popstars used to wear before they found their niche. When she's older she's very much peak early 2010s popstar/cool girl in what she wears with of course the shirt she gets paid to wear. I think now that she's not being told what to wear by the Horsin' Around crew, her mother or her staff from her pop era she doesn't really know what to wear. When a brand reaches out to her and offer her some money she doesn't need, she accepts and wears it because she wants to be wanted and well, she's not wearing anything else she likes more. It's not even clear if she's still getting money or her contract is still going with the company when she's in her last days. I think the most 'her' outfits we see her in is the funeral outfit and the modified afterlife version but even then it's more artistic and trendyy exression than something that she herself is comfortable in. It literally might be very surface level but it's something I do think about. We never really see her comfortable aside from when she's very young (though she's often anxious or unsettled) and in her final moments. Every other scene she's in she's under the influence, hungover, unstable or distanced and disassociated and I think her wardrobe really reflects that.
I think we see her real self in her house. She wears a cute nightgown, her house is quite pretty and neat, it's covered in interesting art and neat features. Her bee landscapers are hard at work, but cheerful and genuinely seem like they enjoy working for her. It's sad because you see someone who is creative, kind, funny, and smart. And they're destinies to die.
I also put blame on Bojack for being so cold and self absorbed that he didn’t recognize the fairly obvious signs of Sarah Lynn’s abuse when they were filming Horsin’ Around. He could have used his power to help her in some way, even if it was just being kind to her and trying to keep her step dad off set. He could have made a huge positive impact on her from an early age, but he ignored and contributed to the abuse that eroded her mental health from day one. Oh, and he left that bottle of vodka at work and that was Sarah Lynn’s first drink.
I’m on my second rewatch right now and I cried at that’s too much man the second time around 💔 Your videos are some of my favorites of any bojack creator!
3:00 definitely the latter. On one hand the former means she suffered in silence, on the other the latter implies she /tried/ reaching out to the woman who was meant to care for her and she failed to do her job, forcing the former to happen anway
I think the only thing you missed here is what Sarah Lynn was to Bojack, I think that's the most interesting angle. We know what he was to her. But to BoJack, Sarah Lynn was both a surrogate daughter who gave him the comfort that a parent might derive in being with their child, and a comrade-in-show who was as much the star as he was. But importantly, she was also an enabler. She didn't need him around to party if she wanted to, but anyone else in Bojack's circle knew it was bad for him and wouldn't encourage his addictions. Todd did at first, but by the point where Sarah Lynn died, he had matured. This is a really unusual paradigm. He saw Sarah Lynn as someone whom he was safe with, as much as she felt the same about him. He felt like she understood what he had been through (even though arguably, she went through very different trauma and had little understanding of BoJack as a person). Whenever BoJack was spiraling into his own self loathing, and wanted to stop feeling that way, Sarah Lynn was the only friend he could call upon who wouldn't push him to process his feelings, who wouldn't ask prying questions, who would be with him without trying to fix him. He also knew that if he wanted to feel better, she was always down to do drugs with him. Them becoming bender buddies in the first season is ironically kind of heartwarming in a way, I think everyone needs a friend who helps you indulge in escapism once in a while. The problem, of course, is that this paradigm requires mutual responsibility. Being a bender buddy is as much about knowing when to suggest that you cool it as it is being an enabler. And this is where the age difference, the father/daughter paradigm, upsets the balance that could have otherwise been. Bojack just wants someone to party with him. Sarah Lynn wanted someone who would take care of her. He was treating her like an adult (which she was) but she wanted him to treat her like a kid. He was looking out for himself, she was not looking out for herself. Bojack thought this was fine because they'd been on benders before and everything turned out fine. When he realized she wasn't fine, it suddenly hit him what he was to her. It recolored all his past experiences with her, from the show to the drug fueled benders. No longer was he the fun older friend to party with. He was the surrogate father who taught her all the wrong lessons and gleefully encouraged her to play in traffic. As he said, everyone thought this was bound to happen, but it wasn't. This was Bojack realizing that it wasn't an unlucky turn that killed her. Every time he had been with her and she had survived - that was pure luck. And finally, her luck ran out. And there was nobody there to help her. Because the only person that could cared more about what she was to him, an enabler and a source of comfort and connection that didn't ask him to improve himself in any way. But he realizes that while she never asked him to be better, she did need him to be better.
1 month late but thought you might get a kick out of this by saying I heard the gibberish. On a serious note, I think you hit the nail on the head on why so many people view Sarah Lynn as Bojack's greatest mistake. The 17 minutes reveal definitely shocked me and made me doubt if I should be rooting for Bojack to get another chance.
Kinda thought it was a three way tie with Gina, Penny, and Sarah Lynn. Everything else I might be able to forgive but not these three. I will say I didn’t like how the 17 minutes wasn’t mentioned til season 6, felt like a retcon.
I definitely don't think it was a retcon. It very much felt like it was set up to show the audience how selfish Bojack can truly be. It would not have been as nearly impactful if we found out the very next episode after Sarah Lynn died that he waited 17 minutes. The 17 minute reveal was put alongside Bojack being exposed for his other toxic and questionable actions and behaviors.
I'm now wondering if Sarah Lynn's mom only pushed for an investigation into her death if it meant winning a wrongful death lawsuit. I'm not saying that's the case but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. As for Bojack, I understand if he had passed out himself. It still would have been bad but it would make sense why help wasn't called till 17 minutes later (when someone else discovered them and made the call). I'm not defending him or create a scenario that would have lessoned his involvement or guilt in Sarah Lynn's death but him also overdosing is the only reasonable explanation I could think of for why someone in his position wouldn't call for help sooner.
I think the worst thing is that he almost slept w a 17 yr old bc being a pedo is the worst thing u can be, but this is definitely the second worst thing he ever did
2:10 i think making sarah lynns stepdad a bear was in itself a reference to the sexual abuse she endured. When Bojack came out the pedo-bear meme had been long established, and they could have chosen any animal/human they wanted.
I love when you tubers reach the point where they basically scat and beat-box at the end of a video and go, "comment if you heard this." Like, "yes I listened to you be smart and articulate till you burned you burned out. It wad very impressive now take a break dude
Need more seasons of bojack..maybe a slight spin off but in the same nature. Or a new character becoming the focus. 🤷♂️. A show from Sarah Lynn’s perspective from child to the end even just a hour special or something. 😂
I am under the impression that because of their duality, Bojack waited the 17 minutes to put Sarah Lynn out of her misery. He came up to this stupid conclusion because he couldn’t find a way out… and it’s selfish. But maybe shows a little humility. I say this coming from experience of losing a friend to suicide via a drinking overdose. His friends explained they intentionally gave him alcohol because of his wish to “be at peace”. And while that is understandable, it’s an action that runs cold through my soul. Could it be possible to forgive those actions? Surely… but there requires a lot of work. And some people don’t deserve as much as others.
there's a darker reason why sarah lynn had the same voice from child to adult, because the "little girl voice" is a form of arrested development in adolescent sexual assault victims.
🤯
hey, that’s the name of the show!
@@negativenancy4268Beads?
“My step father is a bear”
debunked BS
If her step father did sexually abuse her it would explain why Bojack, another father figure, is someone she goes out of her way to sleep with him after violent confrontations, because that's how she learned as a child that she had to make up with older men when bad things happen. Bojack choosing to sleep with her was not only creepy but actively predatory and preying upon her sexual trauma.
As well as the fact that her own mother tells her at a young age is that she uses sex to get her daughter acting roles
And it seems like Bojack had some idea of what was happening
I know I'm not the only one, but I've lost multiple family members to similar overdoses. The fact that Bojack waited 17 minutes, I wouldn't be able to forgive someone for that if they weren't a cartoon horse.
I still didn't forgive the cartoon horse 🐴
Ngl I still hate Bojack for all the things he did to Sarah Lynn directly and indirectly. He had the chance to save her, even years before her overdose. He had the chance to be the parent figure he wished he had himself. Instead, he decided to use her like everyone else did. Herb and Sharona were the only people who ever cared about Sarah Lynn and they were forcibly cut out of her life because of Bojack.
@@NoxAtlas still felt bad Herb too 😭
Bojack could've kept in tough but he was too much of a coward to contact him
or he's that selfish
@OliverOils Yeah that was absolutely shitty of Bojack. But I'd like to think that his life would have gotten worse if he stayed in contact with Bojack. Todd perfectly pointed out that Herb seemed to have lived a much better life after Bojack ghosted him. Their friendship was already strained because Bojack turned into a diva. So I think that Herb kinda dodged a bullet here.
What could be done? Even if they revived her her life would still be hell
What Bojack did to Sarah Lynn was absolutely unforgivable and he failed her in every way possible:
- He traumatized her as a child by telling her to keep dancing no matter what.
- He left his alcohol out there and got her drunk.
- He ignored her comments about her father being creepy
- He got Sharona and Herb fired who were the only ones who actually cared for her and tried to protect her.
- He broke her heart when she was desperately craving for a genuine relationship.
- He never took genuine interest in her hobbies or listened to her problems. Nor did he sympathize with her for her awful family situation.
- He slept with her even though he said that she's like a daughter to him.
- He made her relapse and go on a drug bender with him because he felt miserable and he didn't care about her health.
- He waited 17 minutes before calling an ambulance, thus letting her die to save his own ass.
didint herb get himself fired
@p1xelmissile Not really. In season 6, Angela revealed that Herb wouldn't have been fired if Bojack insisted on leaving together with him. The scandal about Herb being gay would've died down in a while, but they couldn't risk losing Bojack as the main star of the show. So technically, Bojack choosing Secretariat over his best friend was the reason why Herb got fired.
Bojack did not get Herb fired. He failed to follow through with his threat to leave the show, but given how severe the homophobia of the 90s was, they probably would have just cancelled the show rather than keep Herb on.
Those last two were the worst
@@thirdpedalnirvana they wouldn’t have and BoJack didn’t know that, the situation with Herb is, in my opinion, not his fault
from his perspective it’s giving up your childhood dream for a life of uncertainty with your best friend, i understand his choice; Herb can’t be mad that they didn’t keep in touch, nobody is obligated to call you, if he really wanted to talk to BoJack he could’ve called
He waited SEVENTEEN minutes to call the ambulance and let her die just to save his own ass. Unforgivable.
It was disgusting. Bojack kills, the drug was the one that pushed her over to edge and Bojack Horseman pulled her into the hole he buried himself so far in.
It would almost be more forgivable if it were a rational plan, if he calculated that he had to wait that long to avoid being held responsible. He could have called immediately and told them that they had been doing drugs together but he didn't know she had taken the Heroin or where she got it from. The truly chilling part of it is that those 17 minutes WEREN'T a calculated attempt to avoid punishment. They were 17 minutes of irrational panic, where BoJack was more concerned with HIMSELF than HER. He wasn't thinking "oh my god Sarah Lynn is dying" he was thinking "oh my god, what have I done, how can I face the world again, woe is me".
@@thirdpedalnirvanaI disagree, I think it was very calculating, especially given that he was still coming down from a drug binge
The fact that bojack ended 4 years ago and people are STILL making content about it really shows just how valuable this show is. Keep doing what you’re doing!
it feels like it just ended 2 yrs ago
even though I decided tl watch it 2 yrs ago 😂
It's extremely chilling to get all the hints that her stepfather abused her sexually and then see later in the show how arguably, he shows more care and compassion for her than her mother ever did. He is the only person in the world who actually seems to care about her as a person, and given this background knowledge, that's incredibly depressing.
Yeah, it's like, the guy cares but he still hurt her. And to make it worse, he isn't even the one who killed her, that was all Bojack
no please praise the voice cast, the characters wouldn’t be the same without the actors mannerisms or tone when speaking and delivering lines IT IS A VALID FACTOR
I challenge anyone who says voice acting isn’t real acting to listen to Will Arnett as BoJack. The man is 💥ACTING💥
aaron paul as well! the way he delivers some of todds lines wouldn’t have the same punch they have if he wasnt monotone or when you can hear the emotion without seeing the actual voice actor.
@@macie3830 The fact that he delivered that Hokey Pokey line with sincerity was absolutely masterful
@@eileensnow6153when his voice breaks at the end of season 1 begging Diane to tell him he’s a good person…conveying that much pain in just one sentence.
@macie3830 I got chills when he gives Bo Jack the "You need to be better" speech. His plays Todd as a silly goofy sometimes monotone little guy, and when he delivers those lines.
Huuuuf.
As for what you said about her being an vessel for moneymaking that everyone around her used ... the horrifying thing is that that's the true story for so many women in the entertainment industry IRL. Her life seems like a mix of Jeanette McCurdy, Britney Spears, and the Olsen Twins.
The more I learn about the arc that child actors/actresses take in life due to their early fame, the more respect I have for the way WB handled Harry Potter. Rupert decided he didn't want to be a famous actor anymore and just like... retired, and happily drives around in an ice cream van giving kids free ice cream. Emma very much took ownership of her own career and starred in some great movies, then given the choice between continued stardom while keeping her mouth shut or being politically active and it jeopardizing her career, she smartly chose to be genuine even if it isn't the most lucrative choice. And Daniel both seems to be an extremely well adjusted person and continues to be a talented Actor - yet one who works only on his own terms. I don't know what they did differently with Harry Potter, but I think they deserve credit for NOT ruining their child stars' lives like so many others.
@@thirdpedalnirvana Part of the Harry Potter Cast children is in prison, addicted, mentally ill, dead or disabled now. It happens.
The Major influencial aspect would be the family. Like for everyone else.
The majority of the "Disney ruined that Star" "Stars" I have never heard of prior to their fall. We are Honestly looking at hundreds of kids - of course some will turn out not fine. That's not Hollywood - That's just statistics.
And LiLo
Part of me wonders what would have happened if Sarah Lynn had survived the overdose. Would she have realized how toxic and messed up her relationship with Bojack was and cut ties with him completely or shrug it off and make a joke? With a show like Bojack Horseman it honestly could have gone either way
I feel like that would've caused her to spiral out of control even further. Maybe she woulve reconnected with healthy people in her life, like Sharona?
@@myas.6485 Yeah, maybe it would've pushed to fully stick with recovering from her alcohol and drug addictions. She was already in a much better mental and physical state while recovering before she went on the bender, so her nearly dying would've really solidified to her how contrasting and better her life is when she doesn't do drugs.
@@BratzRockAngelsI think this is true. Additionally, if Bojack had sacrificed his public opinion to save Sarah Lynn's life, Sarah Lynn would have finally felt like someone had done something selfless for her out of love.
We probably would have had a sobriety arc with Sarah Lynn/ stepping out of the lime light arc. Could have been interesting with Bojack in later seasons essentially sobering up and due to how he shat the bed he's unlikely to get any major acting roles in Hollywood ever again imo.
I think she would have gone back to rehab and continued with her work.
I'm glad Bojack was in jail at the end of the series. He never truly cared for her. Not in the way that mattered. Its also really creepy and uncomfortable he had sex with Sarah Lynn. Like, eww.
"imagine being punished for aging" the story of womanhood
:(
Aging is a privilege. Watcha mean? I don’t view aging as bad, I don’t give a fuck.
@@RealNapoleonBonaparte81569 They aren't saying that aging is bad. They're saying how a many people will treat women like badly when they show signs of aging because they're no longer "attractive"
@@RealNapoleonBonaparte81569*sigh*
There's this character in Norse mythology called a Nokken. It takes the form of a stallion that lures children to bodies of water and lets them touch him, then their hands get stuck and he drags them down under the water to their death.
damn.
@@youngandbitteri know
You're thinking of Bäckahästen. (The creek-horse) Näcken is a naked man playing violin or panpipes to lure people to the water
Sounds exactly like a Scottish folklore Kelpie
small note since this show has been my special intrest since highschool-
the flowers in this show are JUST as important in this show as the paintings are
-white roses : death, can also mean loyalty
- hydrangeas : forgivness, regret, deep understanding (bojack hands these to his mother in the veiw from halfways down, only AFTER free churo) the red ones he gives her represent him showing her love and her rejecting him
Hydrangeas are also poisonous to horses. This could also have some meaning...
bojack waiting 17 minutes to call the ambulance is like walter white (from BB) watching jane die 🥲
While I would say what Bojack did was vile, you cannot compare the situations.
Walter was completly sober and wanted Jane dead because she was pullimg Jesse away from him. He saw her actively dying, choking, he even saw her looking at him while she was choking, and he did NOTHING.
Bojack thought Sarah Lynn was already dead. Its still vile he left her like that, that he felt so little remorse he lied and metaphorically stepped over her dead body to save himself. But its nowhere near as bad as what Walter did
I don't quite think they're comparable, however that FEELING from both? spot on, man.
@@user-pi3hd2bt3fBojack might have convinced himself she was already dead, but he had overdosed in his life multiple times already (as we learned from the View From Halfway Down), so he also knew that overdose deaths don't happen instantaneously and that calling someone to help you in time is CRUCIAL. He was furious with Diane for failing to save him when she was in *Chicago* but couldn't lift a finger to save Sarah Lynn who was in his arms.
The fact it took someone DYING for Bojack start acting right is beyond ridiculous.
And so many people exist in real life that are just like Bo Jack. I know people who have had horrific shit happen to them or their loved ones such as death and they/the people around them don't change or it takes something extreme to make them finally start to wake up.
Sarah Lynn’s step father is the singular bear I’m not picking 😂
lol! agreed.
I’m binge watching so much content and the 17 minutes reveal is so real and so brutal. Like, it’s cold but 100% in character for him at his most cold and selfish and self-centered, and she pays the price for it, and he could never take that back. Her bit about sacrifice in “the view from halfway down” really got me. Like Diane, she had to make her suffering mean something
"Sarah Lynn, im so sorry what happened to you. What happpened to us. I should've protected you."
Me: It's late. Twenty seven years late.
I don't think it was too late. I think had Bojack actually acted like a normal person at any point during that, he could have helped her.
This is what I thought until I remembered Bojack was gonna leave someone to die in the middle of nowhere after a hit and run.
I don't find Sarah Lynn to be a lovable character, but the sympathy comes from how *she should have been different* . She *should* have been Sarah Himmelfarb, architect to many of Hollywoo(d/b)'s elite. I think the last person to treat her as a person rather than a product was Herb, which is why she bothered to show up to his funeral, even if she was too zonked out on a cocktail of drugs to care. And my moment of losing faith in BoJack came during the final 10 minutes of Escape from LA, but my moment of outright hating him came in the 17 minutes reveal. I actually regained a LOT of faith in him once she died, since the ending of That's Too Much Man implied she died in his arms, he rushed to get an ambulance and ran away from his life to not deal with how he couldn't save her, not to mention S4 showing BoJack at his best, least selfish and most emotionally involved. I thought her death was his wake-up call to not let anyone else in his life fall down that path, that he was taking this second chance at fatherhood with Hollyhock.
Sarah Lynn isn't BoJack's worst MISTAKE, she's the worst ATROCITY he committed. He let her die. He was sober enough to cover his track at the cost of watching her fade away until it was reasonable to call an ambulance! This goes beyond Todd, Gina, or even Penny. This should be at the very least second-degree murder. You can't help but ask: What he if HADN'T waited? Would the near-death experience, alongside all the realizations throughout their bender, gotten Sarah Lynn to give recovery an honest shot? To finally start addressing her trauma and use all the money she didn't need before to put herself through a GED and then architect school? BoJack didn't just murder a 32 year old young woman, he murdered a child who had her life stolen but *could have reclaimed her future* .
Jokes on you, I always listen to the end to hear all the gibberish!
But no, really, Sarah Lynn's life is really tragic from start to finish. I felt so conflicted about liking Bojack once we found out about the 17 minutes. It just made me so angry that a death could've been preventable. But he was willing to put himself so he wouldn't get in trouble over Sarah Lynn, and that's just so horrible in itself.
Sarah Lynn’s black outfit looks like it has three hands grabbing her, which is fitting for how she was used by everyone around her for her whole life
It was such a smart move on the writers to delay revealing that bojack waited 17 minutes to call an ambulance. Prior to the reveal it grants him some plausible deniability for his actions and plays on your attachment to him as the pov character. By the time that conversation happens just like the rest of the characters, that moment is history however when it’s dropped it puts you in the same position as the rest of the cast seeing bojack do something so repugnant and unforgivable and having to reckon with that
Just a small thing that I haven't seen anyone talk about is that we never really see her dressed how SHE wants to dress, and I don't even think she knows how. As a kid she's dressed in really cute and innocent dungarees and she wears that little kid outfit the whole run of the show until she's a preteen, wearing the exact same outfit but with different shoes because her role IS the cute little innocent one of the family even though it looks a bit uncomfortable and illfitting. Then we see her when she's 18 wearing something that's both youthful and sexy because she's trying to shed the her pure little kid persona. It's very spot on with what older-teen/young adult popstars used to wear before they found their niche. When she's older she's very much peak early 2010s popstar/cool girl in what she wears with of course the shirt she gets paid to wear. I think now that she's not being told what to wear by the Horsin' Around crew, her mother or her staff from her pop era she doesn't really know what to wear. When a brand reaches out to her and offer her some money she doesn't need, she accepts and wears it because she wants to be wanted and well, she's not wearing anything else she likes more. It's not even clear if she's still getting money or her contract is still going with the company when she's in her last days. I think the most 'her' outfits we see her in is the funeral outfit and the modified afterlife version but even then it's more artistic and trendyy exression than something that she herself is comfortable in.
It literally might be very surface level but it's something I do think about. We never really see her comfortable aside from when she's very young (though she's often anxious or unsettled) and in her final moments. Every other scene she's in she's under the influence, hungover, unstable or distanced and disassociated and I think her wardrobe really reflects that.
I think we see her real self in her house. She wears a cute nightgown, her house is quite pretty and neat, it's covered in interesting art and neat features. Her bee landscapers are hard at work, but cheerful and genuinely seem like they enjoy working for her. It's sad because you see someone who is creative, kind, funny, and smart. And they're destinies to die.
I also put blame on Bojack for being so cold and self absorbed that he didn’t recognize the fairly obvious signs of Sarah Lynn’s abuse when they were filming Horsin’ Around.
He could have used his power to help her in some way, even if it was just being kind to her and trying to keep her step dad off set.
He could have made a huge positive impact on her from an early age, but he ignored and contributed to the abuse that eroded her mental health from day one.
Oh, and he left that bottle of vodka at work and that was Sarah Lynn’s first drink.
Bojack is the opposite of Captain man
I’m on my second rewatch right now and I cried at that’s too much man the second time around 💔 Your videos are some of my favorites of any bojack creator!
3:00 definitely the latter. On one hand the former means she suffered in silence, on the other the latter implies she /tried/ reaching out to the woman who was meant to care for her and she failed to do her job, forcing the former to happen anway
I don’t mind that you keep praising the voice cast because they deserve every ounce of it
I think the only thing you missed here is what Sarah Lynn was to Bojack, I think that's the most interesting angle. We know what he was to her. But to BoJack, Sarah Lynn was both a surrogate daughter who gave him the comfort that a parent might derive in being with their child, and a comrade-in-show who was as much the star as he was. But importantly, she was also an enabler. She didn't need him around to party if she wanted to, but anyone else in Bojack's circle knew it was bad for him and wouldn't encourage his addictions. Todd did at first, but by the point where Sarah Lynn died, he had matured.
This is a really unusual paradigm. He saw Sarah Lynn as someone whom he was safe with, as much as she felt the same about him. He felt like she understood what he had been through (even though arguably, she went through very different trauma and had little understanding of BoJack as a person). Whenever BoJack was spiraling into his own self loathing, and wanted to stop feeling that way, Sarah Lynn was the only friend he could call upon who wouldn't push him to process his feelings, who wouldn't ask prying questions, who would be with him without trying to fix him. He also knew that if he wanted to feel better, she was always down to do drugs with him.
Them becoming bender buddies in the first season is ironically kind of heartwarming in a way, I think everyone needs a friend who helps you indulge in escapism once in a while. The problem, of course, is that this paradigm requires mutual responsibility. Being a bender buddy is as much about knowing when to suggest that you cool it as it is being an enabler. And this is where the age difference, the father/daughter paradigm, upsets the balance that could have otherwise been. Bojack just wants someone to party with him. Sarah Lynn wanted someone who would take care of her. He was treating her like an adult (which she was) but she wanted him to treat her like a kid. He was looking out for himself, she was not looking out for herself.
Bojack thought this was fine because they'd been on benders before and everything turned out fine. When he realized she wasn't fine, it suddenly hit him what he was to her. It recolored all his past experiences with her, from the show to the drug fueled benders. No longer was he the fun older friend to party with. He was the surrogate father who taught her all the wrong lessons and gleefully encouraged her to play in traffic. As he said, everyone thought this was bound to happen, but it wasn't. This was Bojack realizing that it wasn't an unlucky turn that killed her. Every time he had been with her and she had survived - that was pure luck. And finally, her luck ran out. And there was nobody there to help her. Because the only person that could cared more about what she was to him, an enabler and a source of comfort and connection that didn't ask him to improve himself in any way. But he realizes that while she never asked him to be better, she did need him to be better.
1 month late but thought you might get a kick out of this by saying I heard the gibberish. On a serious note, I think you hit the nail on the head on why so many people view Sarah Lynn as Bojack's greatest mistake. The 17 minutes reveal definitely shocked me and made me doubt if I should be rooting for Bojack to get another chance.
I mean I always saw Herb as a forewarning for what would happen to her. Ouch
Kinda thought it was a three way tie with Gina, Penny, and Sarah Lynn. Everything else I might be able to forgive but not these three. I will say I didn’t like how the 17 minutes wasn’t mentioned til season 6, felt like a retcon.
I agree about the three-way-tie. But it didn’t feel like it was a retcon to me; it felt like a plot twist for the audience.
even if it was a retcon, i think it’s believable enough that i’m not bothered about it at all tbh
and it fits well enough all things considered
I definitely don't think it was a retcon. It very much felt like it was set up to show the audience how selfish Bojack can truly be. It would not have been as nearly impactful if we found out the very next episode after Sarah Lynn died that he waited 17 minutes. The 17 minute reveal was put alongside Bojack being exposed for his other toxic and questionable actions and behaviors.
I'm now wondering if Sarah Lynn's mom only pushed for an investigation into her death if it meant winning a wrongful death lawsuit. I'm not saying that's the case but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. As for Bojack, I understand if he had passed out himself. It still would have been bad but it would make sense why help wasn't called till 17 minutes later (when someone else discovered them and made the call). I'm not defending him or create a scenario that would have lessoned his involvement or guilt in Sarah Lynn's death but him also overdosing is the only reasonable explanation I could think of for why someone in his position wouldn't call for help sooner.
5:10 Parenting Magazine.... with someone on the cover flashing.... love the details of this show
Note for 2:50 , or her mother didn’t care, or potentially enabled it
I think the worst thing is that he almost slept w a 17 yr old bc being a pedo is the worst thing u can be, but this is definitely the second worst thing he ever did
Nah it's not comparable to if penny was like ten
2:10 i think making sarah lynns stepdad a bear was in itself a reference to the sexual abuse she endured. When Bojack came out the pedo-bear meme had been long established, and they could have chosen any animal/human they wanted.
Johnny 2 Cellos called That's Too Much, Man Bojack's most selfish act. Can you honestly say he's wrong?
I know this is a serious video… but “A Ryan Seacrest type” still makes me laugh
Goes to show how much Bojack cares about how people see him. He didn't want to be seen on this bender with her...
I love formulaic videos. Keep it up.
Why is Sarah Lynn missed so badly by the fan base? Simple. Kristen Schaal. We can never get enough Kristen Schaal.
I saw someone theorize her mom DID know what her stepfather was doing and didn't care because he could get connections and stuff
I love when you tubers reach the point where they basically scat and beat-box at the end of a video and go, "comment if you heard this." Like, "yes I listened to you be smart and articulate till you burned you burned out. It wad very impressive now take a break dude
10:36 Bla bla bla reply if you read this Bye
Need more seasons of bojack..maybe a slight spin off but in the same nature. Or a new character becoming the focus. 🤷♂️. A show from Sarah Lynn’s perspective from child to the end even just a hour special or something. 😂
ending made me laugh so hard wtfff 😭😭
7:38
You: and number 5 is...
Ad: election alert
end of video comment here
great stuff once again!
*gargles back nonsense sounds with you in solidarity* lol
I heard that.
If you heard this.
Blalalala I heard that.
No PLEASE keep praising the voice cast :)
I heard that
Yes. I heard it
I heard that
I heard this
comment if you heard this
I am under the impression that because of their duality, Bojack waited the 17 minutes to put Sarah Lynn out of her misery. He came up to this stupid conclusion because he couldn’t find a way out… and it’s selfish. But maybe shows a little humility. I say this coming from experience of losing a friend to suicide via a drinking overdose. His friends explained they intentionally gave him alcohol because of his wish to “be at peace”. And while that is understandable, it’s an action that runs cold through my soul. Could it be possible to forgive those actions? Surely… but there requires a lot of work. And some people don’t deserve as much as others.
Fun fact this video is less than 17 minutes long
if you heard these
...i heard that lol
I heard that😑
I heard it
:>
Bojack never did anything wrong
🤨🤨🤨
HUH..
Naw.
How????
We live in a society
I heard that