ZOOM R20 - how to use the synth track with MIDI controllers plus thoughts and opinions
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2022
- The ZOOM R20 multitrack recorder features a dedicated synth track with multiple synth voices you can use to round out your projects. The track can be controlled by MIDI devices through the USB type C port. Here I demonstrate how to connect MIDI keyboards or a Teenage Engineering OP-Z to control the synth track of the R20. The touchscreen also offers some advanced MIDI editing features, like the ability to edit individual notes.
At the end of the video I provide some of my thoughts and opinions on the device and suggest what kind of musician might be an ideal user for the R20.
![[Eng Sub] ZOOM R12 multi-track recording](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5sN4RpsQYx0/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow! this has to be the best tutorial video, anywhere, on any subject! thank you so much for making this available!
Ha, that might be a little bit of hyperbole there, but I'll definitely take it! Glad ya liked it.
Thankyou for the work you put in to the presentation.
Thanks for the feedback and for watching. Hope the tutorial videos help!
You are too good. Very honest person at the end you said what is it and what it can't be for you. I will love to see plug a guitar into and use the effect that would be BIG. Guitar and bass player would want to see that.
That could be next. I haven't had too much time lately to put together videos. I'm hoping I can create some more content very soon.
Thanks for making this video, very well done. I'm surprised about the midi section possibilities. Good to know that you can change the midi file in an audio file. (I had the same alesis keyboard but gave it away a few months ago, but I have a few others I can use.) I like the way you zoom in the touch screen, this makes it very easy to see what you are doing.
I honestly was surprised about the depth of MIDI editing that is available. I didn't buy the R20 for the synth track, but it is much more versatile than I thought. I only hope they add more synth voices over time. And thanks about the feedback about the camera work on the screen. I had to really turn the lights down around the desk so the screen would have visible contrast. I wasn't sure if it was going to work well...so glad you could see the details!
Thanks for making this video!
Great job explaining the functions of this recorder.
Please keep them coming!
There aren’t a lot of videos on the R20 out there.
Yours are the best and exactly what we need.
The manual that came with the unit is worthless.
I really appreciate the help!
Thank you for the kind words. I'm happy to hear the videos are helping people out. The manual touches on most of the features, but I agree, it is very light on examples and details. It took me awhile to dig through the settings to discover how most of these options work.
Great video! Thanks for posting this!
My pleasure...thanks for watching!
Oh Man I love you too much for the practical video. very rare. you actually got a keyboard to test it.
Very good explain. Thank you. 😍👍👍👍👍
Happy to help!
It's called an OTG adapter or cable. (On the Go) converts USB A to C for use with phones etc.
Nice workaround with the MIDI to wav funktion.
Thanks. The workaround is ok...just a bummer you can't keep a couple MIDI tracks in fully editable form. But honestly, unless ZOOM provides some more synth sounds in future updates, I don't really see anyone using more than one R20 synth track for a project. This thing is a multitracker with a touch screen for light editing...everything else should be considered a little bonus, not a true selling feature of the unit. I would still keep your R8!
@@GazRendar yeah i'm still happy with the R8. For everything else i have other gear. Anyways, looking forward for your next video ✌
Trick: export SMF, convert to audio, and if some edition is needed, import back the SMF!
Great video I like this cool
Thank you!
I don't own an R20. I have an R16. I was just curious to know about some of the features. I'm tempted to get one of these. Thanks for the information. Nice video.
If you have an R16, the upgrade to an R20 is not straightforward. Right off the bat, do you need more than two 1/4" inputs? If you do, stick with your R16 for now. I think the R20 just sounds a little brighter and better than the R8, or R16, or R24. The biggest reason to move to the R20 is because you want to do some light editing with the touchscreen. Sure, there is a MIDI synth track and drum loops, but those are not amazing sound engines. It's all about the touchscreen with the R20. If you want to do some trimming, and would like to cut and paste in ways that are much easier than using the R16, then the R20 can make sense for you. If you don't really see yourself taking advantage of using the R20's touchscreen, then stick with the R16.
You can search Floyd Steinberg on UA-cam. He made a very nice video comparing the R20 to the R24. Not a perfect comparison in your case, but it's pretty close. It might help you form a decision about what you want to buy.
=) great demo
Thanks!
I'm hoping they add support for TRANSMISSION OF MIDI PATCH CHANGE COMMANDS -then R20 could become a backing band player with MIDI PROGRAM CHANGE commands on fly to control my Kemper at live gigs -like Mainstage
Cool.
First video i ever saw of the R20, but the touch screen makes a significant improvement over the R16. The manual of the R16 is really a disaster, but i have got it working basically intuitively and through trial and error. Still takes a lot of time and effort though compared to tape recording or a midi daw (used Notator for Atari back in the day). Since i'm mostly on midi instruments the R20 seems to suit me better than the R8 / R16. Interesting!
Yeah, MIDI isn't much of a thing for the R8/R16/R24. Here you have a dedicated synth channel. I posted a couple more videos about the synth channel and the MIDI grid that is available for editing via touchscreen. The foundation is there to be a nice multitracker that has some MIDI input control. The weakness with firmware v1.0 are the synth sounds that are available. They are limited at this point. But that seems like a very easy fix with software updates. So here's hoping ZOOM keeps improving the unit.
THE R16 MANUAL IS A MARVEL
Good demo! Maybe this is somewhat off-subject, I've fantasized about a hardware tracker which can accept VSTs and plugins, and seeing that someone is making one with MIDI capability and track editing, I'm thinking that before long, someone is going to do just that inevitably, and I highly suspect that Zoom will be the ones who will.
Thanks! And yes, being able to onboard some plugins would be fantastic. I think we are a little ways away from that, though. But I do hope ZOOM gives us some firmware updates that beef up the synth track capabilities. The foundation is there, let's just hope they build on it. More than just more synth voices, I hope we can modulate the sound in at least some minor ways.
They need to add a good grand piano! Or, allow users to upload our own midi patches to the iPad or even better, allow ipad midi apps access to the R20.
After using the R20 for some time and trying to incorporate the synth track into my work flow, I think that's my biggest complaint. Why didn't they add just a clean, true piano sound? The electric piano is a lame electric piano. You can almost always add a clean piano sound to any song. But the synth sounds that are in there right now are difficult to incorporate into anything you create.
@@GazRendar Totally agree. A grand piano is my main synth sound.
You can only use one instance of the Synth in a song. This is thing is worse than ZOOM R8. Dissapointed. Thanks you made me know the things I needed to know. Thanks you are amazing
The R20 is better than the R8 for track editing. The R8 has more rhythm features with it's sampling and sequencing capabilities. And obviously the R20 has more inputs than the R8. So I wouldn't say the R20 is worse than the R8 for everyone, but you have to REALLY want the touchscreen track editing if you're going to buy an R20. The R8 (and R24) are still very good multitrackers.
Great videos you are doing on this unit. Seeing how one of the synths is a drum kit, I’m curious if one could connect a drum module and trigger the drum kit synth, that could be a real game changer on this unit, I mean after all, midi is midi right, so “technically” that should work?
Eh, I'm not so sure. It kinda depends on how the controller's pads are set. For the synth drum kit, the kicks, snare, etc are set to be triggered by keyboard keys (notes). So you'd have to be able to set your pad to like, a middle C to play a kick and set another pad to an A5 to play like a cymbal or something. That's why I wanted to get my iRig I/O 49 hooked up, because that has pads that I wanted to test out. I suspect it won't work in firmware v1.00. But seems like something ZOOM can add in future firmware updates if they wanted to. I'll see if I can hook up anything else with pads and test that idea out...
Excellent information! Thanks so much. Is there a multi tracker you’d recommend that has better drum capabilities?
There aren't too many multitrackers out there that have extensive drum capabilities. Honestly, if you want a multitracker that does drums you might want to look into the decade-old Zoom R8 and R24. Both of those have sample pads that can be used to trigger drum samples and they both have sort-of-ok-ish sequencers to program custom drum tracks. But they don't have the piano scroll/MIDI grid that the R20 has. So there isn't anything out there that is what I would call a perfect blend of multitrack capabilities and drum machine functions. The best hope is that Zoom improves the drum synth sounds for the R20 in future updates. In the meantime, if you want quality drums, you'd probably have to get a multitracker and then some kind of drum machine...even a PO-32 Tonic Pocket Operator would work better than some of the all-in-one options built into multitrackers right now.
This thing is really cool for the 400 bucks, especially if you think MPC/Maschine is overkill. I wonder if they'll update it with more internal instruments.
Stand-alone MPC's like the One and X are totally different beasts and can do waaaay more with MIDI sounds than the R20. Same sorta thing with the Maschine. Both of those are better suited for dealing with MIDI sequences and synth sounds and working with shorter patterns that you chain together into songs. Plus, the Maschine feels like it's truly designed to be a controller/interface for DAW software first and foremost.
The R20 will work as an interface or a controller for DAWs, but it's primary function is to record full audio tracks. So while you can work with audio regions (similar to patterns) on the R20, it works best if you are recording longer continuous stretches of music compared to 1 or 2-bar patterns you would commonly be using with an MPC One/X or a Maschine. I don't see Zoom updating the R20 with interchangeable packs of synth sounds like AKAI does all the time with the MPCs. But I do hope Zoom gives us a couple more synth sounds that are useful - like a grand piano and some orchestral strings. That would be nice.
Great tutorials, thanks very much. I just ordered one of these and intend to use it in conjunction with my DAW. I was wondering if there is a way to export the midi files you record on the synth tracks to use in your daw with a different synth. I could see doing a basic recording with the internal sounds to jot down ideas and then flesh them out in logic but I don't see any info anywhere about exporting the midi note files after recording for later use.
I haven't tried that myself yet, but I think you can probably do it. My suggestion is to:
1) Create your synth track on the R20 and keep it as a synth track (it'll have the piano icon on the track number)
2) Touch the track number to open the Track Settings menu
3) Try to EXPORT the synth track (do NOT render it)
4) It will probably dump a .SMF file into your AUDIO folder of your SD
5) Try to load that .SMF file into your DAW or whatever else reads MIDI files
Hello Gaz
I have a question about the Bluetooth adapter you can get for the R 20
Will that let me play my music from my R20 another Bluetooth device such as my PA system that has Bluetooth capability. Or is it just meant to be able to be controlled from your cell phone that has Bluetooth?
I would like to be able to hear my music on my PA system before I mix it down. What sounds good on my studio speakers doesn’t always sound good in my car, radio or other devices. thoughts?
The BTA-1 bluetooth adapter only lets you use the R20 with the app. It only transmits data, not audio.
ua-cam.com/video/ulFNTLKXYy0/v-deo.html
Additionally, the app only works for iPad. It doesn't work for iPhone or for Android.
ua-cam.com/video/F9LIYZpOvuA/v-deo.html
Thanks for the good video! I didn't see any indication of a foot controller in the manual. Is there a device that can control recording and play via USB? Thank you.
I haven't seen anything that suggests you can control it with a foot switch, yet. The R20 lacks a dedicated 1/4" foot switch input jack, compared to the one that is there on the back of the R8. However, I'm not sure if there will be a foot switch type controller available once Zoom puts out a firmware update to use the bluetooth adapter. So right now, nothing. In the future? Possible...
Can i record midi then send th midi out to be received by an external 16 part mulitimbral keyboard?
Sadly, no. As of firmware 3.10, the MIDI via the USB port only seems to be MIDI-in. I don't think you can create a MIDI synth track with a combination of a controller and using the piano scroll touchscreen and then output that in realtime to a keyboard. It would be nice, but I don't see Zoom implementing that feature in a firmware update anytime soon. Zoom has always been more about guitar/vocal effects and recorders, and not that much about synths and keyboards over the years. And that hypothetical feature you are describing would work a lot better if it had a 5-pin MIDI IN and OUT.
hi, is it possible to record the sounds of an external synthesizer as midi notes in R-20 ?
In basic terms, no. If you are playing an external synth you can only record those unique sounds as an audio track using some kind of line out or headphone out of the synth.
However, if the synth can send MIDI over USB, you can play the synth essentially as a MIDI keyboard/controller and it will record the MIDI notes into the synth track of the R20 (but you'll be stuck with one of the 18 synth sounds within the R20). Like in the video, I can sequence something into a synth/sequencer like the OP-Z, and hit Record on the R20 while hitting Play on the OP-Z, and the OP-Z will send MIDI notes that the R20 will record into a piano scroll. But it's not the OP-Z's sounds, it's only the OP-Z's notes placed in the MIDI piano scroll.
Hi Gaz, Me again!! Just been watching your import of Wav files by copying onto the SD card before puyying it back in the R20. My question is can I import sounds or wav files into the R20 via USB (computer to R20). Their are programs like cubase LE which seem to indicate that it can be done, but so far, I have nothing being recorded. As always your help is invaluable.!!
Many thanks,
Bernie
No, right now on v2.40 I don't think you can send .WAV files from a computer through the USB cable to the R20. I think you have to run the import through the SD card or through the USB port via a flash drive.
When you run a USB cable from the R20 to a computer the drivers that install are more for use as a DAW controller, or to use with the Guitar Lab software. I haven't tried to run a WAV file from a computer to the R20 via a DAW like Cubase or Cakewalk, but I doubt it works because you have to select a setting on the R20 to have act as a controller for it to even communicate with the DAW software...and that just turns the R20 into that controller board and not a multitracker.
Hi there,grate wide! Thanks! And what about new porta recorders with more functions for midi recording? And is it now a kind of these ones to ability to download midi sounds? ❤
Hi. I'm not exactly certain what you are asking. You can import MIDI files into the Zoom R20 and it can work with the 18 different synthesizer sounds that the R20 has. It works, but it's not that exciting. And new porta recorders with more functions and recording --- do you mean the Tascam Portacapture handy recorders? Those are a different type of recorder from a multitracker like the R20. The R20 will let you record and edit audio tracks. The Portacaptures mostly just let you record, but you can't do much editing on the device. I do not think the Tascam Portcaptures support MIDI.
Do you know How do you turn the midi up since it's kind of quiet? Even all the way up it was way lower than the rest of the channels. I ever tried to turn the eq up on the midi but it barely makes a difference
Hmmm...really? I don't think I've had that problem. And I just recorded a quick synth track with my AKAI Mini Play and it was at an acceptable volume a few minutes ago. I used synth sounds 1-4 and it was working.
I guess you could look at a couple things:
1) The notes are velocity sensitive, but I don't think the dynamics are that great. So I usually set my MIDI keyboard to be "full level," which prevents me from sending weaker volume levels on my notes.
2) Once in a great while the faders do some weird things where they are not as responsive. To correct this I lower the fader all the way to the bottom and hit Play. That synth (or audio) track should be effectively muted. From there I slowly bring the fader up and the volume should fade up. I don't know if this "un-sticks" a fader or what, but the two times it happened to me that quickly fixed it.
3) You can do the same thing with the master fader as above
Outside of that, it's double check the simple stuff....make sure you didn't accidentally mute the synth track, headphone volume is up, don't have a weird noise gate effect on that is effectively muting everything, turn the record button off for the track when you just want to hear it in play back.
If you continue to have problems, I guess the last thing to do is to render the MIDI track into an audio file. Maybe it will be more responsive then? I dunno. Lemme know if you continue to have problems and I can try to recreate the issue.
Try to check the velocity of the notes in your synth track.
I recently purchased an Akai MK3 play keyboard to add accents to my music. I figured out how to use it as a mini controller. Is there a way to incorporate more synth sounds to the R20? I like the string section affects from my Akai, but plugging it in straight to input one volume does not sound loud enough to match what I have recorded for example, guitar or drum tracks. Any suggestions? By the way, great video.
Unfortunately, as of v3.3, the R20 still only has those 18 limited synth sounds plus the drum kit set on synth #19.
I have used my Akai Mini Play mk2's own synth sounds with the R20 and it works. However, I typically do a couple things to control the gain. First, I run it in stereo. So I have a 3.5mm TRS that splits into a stereo break-out with two mono 1/4" plugs on the other end and I put those into inputs 1&2 on the R20. With batteries in the Akai Play I usually have clean sound, but you can turn on the track noise gate if you get a little bit of hum while using USB power to the Akai. I have to turn the headphone volume up on the Akai and then turn the gain up a healthy amount on the R20. What I personally find to be a challenge is working with the velocity-sensitive non-weighted mini keys of the Akai play. You really need to hit them to reach the upper levels of velocity-sensitive volume. Often what I do is turn on the Full Level max-velocity button on the Akai Play. That gives me enough volume output to work with the gain on the R20. Unfortunately, it's not good for more free flowing expression, especially if you are using it for string background sounds, but at least you can play at the max volume and then use the fader on the R20 during mix-down to somewhat simulate a sense of real key-playing expression...
@@GazRendar thank you so much, sir you have gone above and beyond. I truly appreciate it!
Happy to help! Good luck!
I returned the R20 I bought - just too soon. The app is not ready. One MIDI track. crappy synth sounds - 18 of them and no editing. The screen is not very responsive. No folders, so no organization of loops. No search for finding loops. All in all, not a good product. I bought the R24 and love it. Once the app is available and 100% functional, this can be Acid Pro in a box.
I'm still keeping both my R20 and my R8, but at the moment, I think my biggest gripe is touchscreen fatigue for heavy scrolling...similar to what you were describing. If there was folder organization, or a jog wheel to complement the touchscreen I would be close to giving it a 5-star rating. I still view the synth track and rhythm track to be bonus throw-ins and not core functionality. I'm hoping the bluetooth connected app will be exciting, but I'm going to have tempered expectations there, especially when it first comes out.
But make no mistake, I love the R8, and the R24 is literally a jacked-up R8 with more inputs and more tracks. For a lot of people, depending on what their specific needs are, I would recommend the R8 or R24 over the R20.
Have payed around with these drum loops. Have found that manually copying and pasting these loops puts the beat between the pasted and original loop out of sync. Same experience?
Guess you can only insert from the choices on the R20 to avoid this?
thanks for your tutorial, do you know, how I can play a region in loop mode ?
Loop mode...as in you recorded a 45 second track and you want it to play then when it reaches the end it automatically goes back to the beginning and over and over? The R20 doesn't have a looper function like that. Many DAWs do it, but I don't think multitrackers do it as a standard feature much.
Instead of an automatic looper, you can take that 45 seconds of audio you recorded and quickly copy and paste it by selecting the audio region, then dragging the white tab at the end of the region out across the open timeline. It will keep copying and pasting 45 second regions one after another. Once you have that for like, 10 minutes, you can just go back to the beginning, hit Play, and it will sort of act like a looper. You just have to do it manually, that's all. That's the only work-around I can think of right now.
@@GazRendar thank you for information..
Is there any way to play midi data back from the r20 into my keyboard as to use my keyboards own sounds instead of the ones on the r20?
As of firmware v3.00, no, the R20 does not have MIDI OUT.
What you can do is lay down a MIDI/synth track on the R20...maybe you're workshopping a synth track to fit with your other guitar/bass/drums/vocal tracks you already laid down...and you can choose to Export the R20's synth track as a .MID file. It will dump that .MID file into a MIDI folder on the SD card. You can then load that .MID file up in a DAW and have any synth VST play it. From there you can run a 3.5mm cable that breaks out into 1/4" cables, plug those into the R20's inputs and hit Record. Now you'll record the better synth sounds coming from the computer playing your MIDI notes you originally laid down on the R20. Or run a USB to 5-pin MIDI cable from the computer to your hardware synth, and then a 1/4" cable from your hardware synth back to the R20 and hit Record on the R20 that way. So you can do some things with the MIDI track...but it's convoluted.
Hopefully Zoom just updates the firmware at some point to allow you to run MIDI Out from the R20 so you could use the R20 as a sequencer for a synth.
@@GazRendar 💯 and get quantization! Let’s hope 💫
Can you draw in an empty midi clip if you don't have a keyboard connected? Or I suppose you could always import one and edit that. Thinking it would be nice to be able to draw a midi drum track from scratch this way.
Never mind, saw this answered later in the thread. Looks like inserting an empty clip without a keyboard is possible, as is editing the clip after on the R20 alone.
Yes, you can create an audio region in the synth track and then enter in notes. It's not fun, so I only recommend doing that for short patterns. But it is indeed possible. If you want to see how it works I made a video about it:
ua-cam.com/video/TIRmae3ywaw/v-deo.html
Why wouldn’t you make the rest of the audio files stereo?
Can you sync with Midi through the USB C
You cannot. Sadly, there are no MIDI sync options with the R20 or the R12.
As a poor work-around, if I play around with the levels carefully, I can get an 8th note sync click signal to work through a single track on the R20 to help me sync up Pocket Operators, Volcas, and Roland Aira units...but it's far from ideal.
Great tutorial , as usual.
From what I can understand, the R20 only revieves MIDI note data but doesn't send any(?) That's a pity, because I would definitly buy one if I could, say, make a track using the internal organ sound and then send the MIDI output to a synth set to oohs or aahs instead and recrod its ouput back to an audio track on the R20. But it appears the R20 can only send control data from the faders, and I'm not sure if those are even in MIDI format.
Can I at least extract the MIDI file(s) to a PC and let it control a synth?
Sorry, I just realized that I missed this comment...
As of firmware v3.00, the R20 only has MIDI IN through the USB-C port. There is no MIDI OUT. I'm not sure how they wired stuff inside the R20, but adding MIDI out seems like something that would at least be possible to add through a firmware update, but if that ever became possible you would have to send your R20's hypothetical MIDI Out signal to a USB host device, and maybe have that host device have a 5-pin MIDI Out that could then run to a synth, and then the synth's 1/4" out to an input on the R20. Essentially using the R20 like a sequencer. Again, that seems sort of possible as a thing Zoom could add in the future, but I have no idea if they have that planned or not.
One thing you can do is workshop your future synth track on the R20 using one of it's 18 synth sounds. You lay down that track as a MIDI/synth track, then choose to Export that MIDI track. It will dump a .MID file into a MIDI folder on the SD card. You can take that .MID file and open it up in a DAW and your DAW will simply read those notes and put it through whatever VST plug-ins that you have. You could then run a 3.5mm stereo cable out of computer's headphone jack to a 1/4" break out cable and then run that back into an input on the R20 and hit the record button. That would work, although it's really cumbersome.
I should add that I thought about making a video about that months ago, but I didn't think anyone would be interested in that. But your comment shows me at least 1 person would want to see how that works, ha!
Maybe I'll put that back on my list of R20 videos I need to make....
Hi Gaz, Many thanks for all your help in the past which have been invaluable. Apologies for this next long winded question, but i am trying to find out if I can use the R20 to record tracks from Cubase LE12 back onto the R20. The scenario is that My friend has some songs we wants recorded onto the R20. He sings, plays Guitar and Bass and of course all this can be done on the R20.
However, if I want to use add strings(the R20 Does not have strings) I can load them into Cubase and using my Akai Midi keyboard controller, I can then play the strings. What I would like to do is then record the strings back onto the R20 onto another track in the same tempo, but not sure if this is possible. How would I go about this?
Many thanks... Bernie
Yeah, the R20's synth sounds are limited and not having any strings is...odd, and disappointing.
If I understand your question correctly, you probably have three options:
1) Use your Akai MIDI controller to play the strings live in Cubase. Use the headphone out from your computer or audio interface along with a 3.5mm stereo cable splitter to left and right 1/4" mono jacks - and plug those mono jacks into inputs 1 and 2 of the R20. Or if you your headphone out is 1/4" stereo, you'd need a stereo 1/4" splitter to left and right mono 1/4" jacks. Record to tracks 1 or 2 (or both) by arming those tracks and using the monitor out or headphone out of the R20 to both hear and play along with your R20 tracks and hear the Cubase strings you are playing with the MIDI controller.
2) If you know the tempo of what's recorded on the R20 (say...110 bpm), you can set up a click track on Cubase that is 110 bpm. Then play and record your strings with the click at that tempo. Export that track from Cubase into a .WAV file that is 24-bit, 44.1kHz. Then import the .WAV file into the R20. You can trim up the track as needed and position it where you want in the song that you are building.
3) Use the Akai MIDI controller to play a synth track within your R20 song you are working on. Just set it to a piano or organ sound. Record that synth track on the R20 as you play along with guitar, bass, and vocals that are already on other tracks. When you have the MIDI track complete, you can export just the R20 MIDI track as an .SMF file. Take that .SMF file and load it into Cubase, but use a violin synth engine or some other strings to play that .SMF file in Cubase. Export it out of Cubase as an audio .WAV file that is 24-bit, 44.1kHz. From there, import that .WAV file into your R20 and trim/align it with the touchscreen, if needed.
Option #3 might work the best if you can pull it off. Let me know if any of those options worked for you. If I think of something else, I'll let you know.
@@GazRendar Hi Gaz, once again many thanks for your help. If only Zoom could add more sounds to their synth engine, so that one doesn't have to through all that hassle..By the way, I read somewhere that the wav file has to be 44.1 khz with a 16 bit depth? for the R20, or can you export it as a wav file using the USB link?
I really hope Zoom gives us more synth sounds in a future update. The initial offering is rather limited. Would be nice to have some modulation control too. We'll see if there are any more updates and what they have packed inside...
The R20 can handle .WAV files that are either 16-bit, 44.1kHz ("CD quality sound") or 24-bit, 44.1kHz. It defaults to 24-bit, 44.1kHz so I would try to stick to that type of .WAV file so it always works with the R20. If you export on the R20 it dumps the file to the SD card or a USB thumb drive if you have one plugged in.
@@GazRendar Thanks for the tip. I think i will try the easiest option of the analogue root with audio out to the R20.. Seems like a plan. Thanks once again..
Hi once again. Just a quick question this time. I have a Microphonr plugged into track 4 with the record button on. I am trying to get some reverb onto that track, but its not there, but I do get a message coming up that says effect is in use on track 1, even though that track is not in use? I am guessing its a stting I have missed....thanks
Having used a Boss BR-600 and BR-800, I do find the touch screen a compelling addition to the all-in-one digital recorder approach. However, I am going to wait to see more videos of what people do quality wise with this unit beyond tests. I also want to see the Bluetooth connection to iPad or other device in action. Having the interface on a larger screen may be more compelling than one thinks from an ergonomics perspective. Also I want to see if they do tweak the firmware. Lastly, will Roland/Boss or TASCAM respond? Especially Boss. These Zoom R20 are flying off the shelves for early adopters. I am not sure how big the market is. I do know there are a fair amount of people, mostly older perhaps, that do not enjoy the complexities of recording on a computer if they are just doing demos, songwriting, practicing, or having fun. But make no mistake, I have seen people who dive deep into the layered settings of these devices and produce outstanding results. Thank you for the overview.
I'm old and loved desktop computer recording and always poopooed these things. Started fooling with Presonus and the L12 and L20. Thought I could use something like that then this came out. I wanted something small for quick recording. I like the little touch screen. The FM synth and the drum loops are meh, I did use them though.
Waiting to see if they update the control surface thing and love to see an android based controller app. Sure I'd love to see a 16 recordable input 24 track version! :)
I haven't made anything big on this this device yet. I've only been playing around with 2-6 tracks at a time so far while learning how to use it. But I did buy it with the idea that I could scale up my recordings and productions with the R20 when the time comes. And in a long line of multitrack recorders that I've owned, I did have a BR-600 for a little while and I liked it, although I liked my Roland VS-880 more than that. But so far the R8 is my favorite multitracker in terms of price/value.
@@GazRendar I think the key is most of these devices can produce good and similar results but like all recording, they require capturing good performances. And secondarily, the folks that get great results also take the time to learn and test the many deeply embedded features. I've been looking at the R8 as well. The older Boss BR lines are going real cheap as is the VS line and I think I may get one for kicks. The question is which one?
I did some research. Interested in BR-900CD V2; BR-1600CD V2; BR-1200CD; BR-1180 in that order. I notice the 1600 has a "Speaker Modeling" feature that is interesting. Not sure any other digital recorder has that.
I bought it for the multi track function not the drum loops and synth. It's like buying a box of Cracker Jacks but only buying it for the toy and not the popcorn and peanuts, if that's your goal, you will be disappointed 😄
Ha, spot on analogy!
Does it work for streaming?
I guess that depends on your software and how you want to use it. Yes, you can run all kinds of different audio sources into the R20, use the gain and faders to control the mix, and then run the stereo monitor out into a computer and feed it through OBS or something for your broadcast. That would work. Or you could connect it via USB and run that through a DAW to capture your audio mix. So yes, you can use it as a mixing board for a live stream. However, I would only recommend that you use the R20 as a live mixing board if you are also going to use it as a stand-alone recording device as well. For dual usage, then it's justifiable. If you are only going to mix audio for live streaming, I would recommend you go with a mixing board instead, like a Zoom L-8 as an example, or one of the podcasting mixers/recorders.
Have you tried to make a drum track using the patch 19 The build in Drumkit? When connecting a keyboard you can fingerdrum but you can't build up a drum track because no overdubs possible. Any suggestions?
You are correct. You cannot like, hit record and just lay down the kick for 8 measures, hit stop, go back to measure 1, hit record, and layer the snare hits on top of the kick. The only thing you'll get at the end of that are the snare hits.
The suggestions are not great:
1) Try to play the kick and snare in real time and lay that down
2) Render that kick and snare synth track into an audio file
3) Then create a new synth track and lay down your toms and cymbals, etc. Repeat those steps as needed.
OR
A) Try to play the kick and snare in real time and lay that down as best you can
B) Go into the synth/sequencer/piano roll editor. Try to use the touchscreen on the piano scroll-MIDI grid, and then add in extra stuff, like cymbals and toms via touchscreen. I have a video about using the R20 as an instrument. Watch that one, and maybe my video about getting a stylus.
I think those are your only two options if you want to use the built-in drum kit. Sorry...not ideal.
@@GazRendar thank you for your reaction. I think I go back to building the drumtrack in a daw like I used to do. I tried this yesterday and when setting the project in the same bpm the drumtrack lines out very well so you can use the grid in the project to organize the parts. I was a R16 user and used to work like that. The upgrade to the R20 was not intentionally but as a result of a internal problem with the R16 that could not be fixed Zoom Service Dept gave me an upgrade to the R20. So I miss a few options that I was used to work with like the punch in- and out. Punch in is no problem when using precount on any place in the track. Punch out is not an option but you can just move that part of the track further up the time line and move it back after the punch in recording. I am recording now with the R20 and that's the best way to find the best way to work with it, to experience it's limitations and how to deal with it. Maybe we can expect some functionally upgrades in future software upgrades.
@@BasvanVeen I agree. I view the internal drum machine sounds on synth track 19 as just something basic to create really quick for a guitar player. For everything else you should do exactly what you are doing...create a drum track on a DAW or on a sequencer drum machine, set the DAW or drum machine to make the bpm of the R20 and import the audio file, or just record it. Then keep building tracks from there. Sorry to hear about your R16, but I think you'll find the advantages of the R20 outweigh the downsides. Happy recording!
You can (quite easily) edit the drums in a synth track too.
I called Zzounds and as far as I can tell and their "gear expert" this is the ONLY way to go with these features. I told him I'd spend a grand or more for better with the same features and he couldn't find anything. What multitracker do you know of that has similar drum and synth features that are higher quality?
The Zzsounds guy is pretty much correct. There isn't anything else on the market like this. The R20 is the only one with a touchscreen that lets you perform light editing and has easy ways to create drum loops and has a built-in synth track with an editable piano scroll/MIDI grid. The synth sounds work, but they are simply put, limited, and the preloaded drum loops are fine, but again, limited. If you want these features, it's really the R20, or go with a moderately powered laptop, and interface, and a DAW.
The only thing that is sort of close might be an AKAI MPC One as a stand-alone unit, but it's just not great at being a multi-track audio recorder. And it's far more expensive than an R20.
I view the R20 as a direct successor to Zoom's old R16. But if Zoom builds on the R20 and adds in a lot more features, they could build an awesome device if they created a successor to the R24 and incorporated a touchscreen, more versatile inputs, and upgraded synth features. No idea if or when Zoom would do that, though.
Is it possible to get a midi track going without a keyboard and than start editing the midi track.
Basically just used it as a midi editor.
Yep! You can just use the piano scroll with the touchscreen if you want (although I don't recommend it for any extensive song writing). I made a video about it here:
ua-cam.com/video/TIRmae3ywaw/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar I just checked out that video, awesome content. Thanks man!
I feel The small touch screen can be a bit tricky to use especially if you have big fingers. Do you know when the blu tooth app will be available so I can use my iPad as my touchscreen. Thanks for the great video.
I've gotten used to it, but it can be a little tricky, for sure. I find that if I press down too hard it loses accuracy with my touches. I haven't seen any news about the iOS app yet. I'm hoping ZOOM has an update coming soon...
@@GazRendar Yeah, well, I don’t really see the point of this small screen and the (all too simple internal) sounds. iOS connection could reduce the price and increase possibilities tremendously.
@@davidosolo I understand what you're saying, but I do like having some of these editing functions on the screen...even if it is small and has limitations. I want to see what the promised v2.00 brings with iOS control and hopefully some new synth capabilities before I post a full review video.
@@GazRendar Fair enough. v2.00 will be very promising indeed. Would love to see your video on that. Keep the good work going!
Actually, I am having a hard time finding the right mixer for me. I basically have a synthesizer and drumcomputer set-up. A max of 4 or 6 instruments connected would be fine with me. And I would like it to be able to record my initial compositions/ jams before passing everything to my DAW and using it as an audio-interface. If anyone has a recommendation; I am all ears!
Can you quantize your notes
You can choose "snap to grid" in the settings - and that helps a little bit. However, it does not function like a truly good quantization feature you'll see either on DAW piano rolls for recording live with a MIDI controller or with hardware sequencers.
Roland's free Apps Zentracker and Zenbeats do the same .
For sure. It's just nice that Zoom included something on board to use. It's not great by any means, but I'm hoping Zoom provides some updates over time to improve the MIDI features.
@@GazRendar thankyou
What? You can eddit each note on it's own? Cool. Say what speakers are you using? Or does the R20 have built in speakers? I don't remember reading anything about speakers.
It is handy to be able to edit the individual notes. It's ideal to make small fixes.
The R20 does not have built-in speakers. It offers 1/4" jacks for a monitor out to powered speakers, or has a stereo 1/4" jack for headphones. In the videos I'm running the headphone out over to my ZOOM R8's inputs and recording the audio there. I then blend that headphone audio out into the video's final mix. This way viewers essentially hear what they would hear through the headphones of the R20.
@@GazRendar Ah yeah I see. I never knew that about middy though. Remember I'm not a musician. So never delt with middy. Pretty cool and nifty though. Ah okay so it was the headphone jack audio then. Yeah I wandered as I didn't recall the page saying anything about speakers. Any who though I'm no musician all this is still pretty nifty and even more so to know that with the app it's fully accessible to the blind. Which insidentaly is why I was even looking at this recorder. But yeah it seems to be strictly a musician's recordre.
Yes, I would consider it to strictly be a recording tool for musicians. I hope to test out the app when it works.
@@GazRendar Yeah that's why it's kind of a bummer that apparently it's only this recorder that's going to get the super accessability. I asked Zoom if the F recorders would benifet from this but it seems not cause this R20 has it's own app.
Can you actually import a complete midi file onto a track in theR20?
I guess that depends on your definition of "complete." If you have a .MID or .SMF file that has full information for multiple midi tracks, then no, the R20 struggles recognizing all those notes. But if you have a simple MIDI file that only has one track/channel of notes, the R20 can usually pick all those notes up and put it into it's own piano scroll. if you have a midi file that has say, 3 tracks/channels, you can try to import just 1 of those channels into the R20 during the import process...but in my experience it can be a little hit or miss.
@@GazRendar Thanis
Thanks :)
And can you connect and use electric drums with it? And use midi..?
If you have an electric drum kit, like a Roland V-drum kit, you can run the stereo out of the electric drum kit into channels 1 and 2 and record it as a stereo .WAV file. You would then also be able to use MIDI for any kind of synth sounds. However, I'm not sure you could (easily) run a something like Roland V-drum kit with a MIDI cable to control the R20's built-in synth track with drum kit. That's because the R20's stock drum sounds for synth MIDI are mapped to notes on a keyboard. C and D are kicks, E and F are snares, etc. I'll see if I can test something like that...but it's not going to be easy to get that to work how you are probably asking for it to work.
@@GazRendar So you can not record the midi of the electric drums like with the synth?
It might be possible...it depends on how the electric drums is sending the signal out and how the R20 interprets them. I sold my Yamaha DTX electric drums awhile ago, so I can't test it out. I might have some e-drum pads buried in the closet somewhere...they might have MIDI out and I can test it. It'll take me a little while to see if that works, though. I'll try...
@@GazRendar thanks I’ll try too when it arrives…
Does an AKAI MPK mini have to be connected to a computer before entering the ZOOM R20?
No. You can plug it directly into the R20 to control the synth track. No need to goto a computer first to load any settings. There are several versions of the AKAI Mini, but I think they all have USB type B. So you just need a USB type B to USB type C cable to make it work.
Almost any MIDI controller will work the R20 without having to first plug the controller into a computer to install settings because the R20 recognizes standard MIDI signals/codes.
Additionally, I have an AKAI Mini Play, which besides being a controller is also it's own synth. Beyond using USB-MIDI, I can also run a 3.5mm stereo cable from the AKAI's headphone jack that splits into 1/4" mono cables and plug that directly into inputs 1 and 2 of the R20 to deliver analog audio sounds...much like any standalone keyboard/synth.
So there are lots of easy plug n play options.
@@GazRendar yeah, I have that all done ang recording, but the Zoom doesn’t appear to accommodate the four tuners on the AKAI. Am I right?
Correct. You can't really modulate any of the R20's built-in synth sounds. So the knobs or ribbons on MIDI controllers do not do anything - at least on v2.40. Would be nice if ZOOM provided some modulation parameters for their synth sounds in a future update. Here's hoping.
@@GazRendar hey, that’s what I thought. Thanks for all the support. After the mini is connected to the computer, can I connect the Zoom to the computer to have a conduit, to be able to use the the 8 dials?
Sorta depends on how you are using the R20 and Akai mini with the computer. You won't be able to use the dials on the Akai mini directly with the R20, no matter how you link them. Outside of note velocity, there isn't anything that you can modulate on the R20 with MIDI dials.
But if you are using a DAW with your computer you could use the R20 as an audio interface while using the Akai mini as a MIDI controller for a piano scroll within the DAW...then you could modulate the computer DAW-based VST synth sounds using the dials on the mini while the R20 brings in a guitar or bass or vocals using it's inputs. That's really the only way to use the mini's dials for anything useful, and it sadly doesn't truly have anything to do with the R20.
Can you record 8 channels at 1 time?
Yes. You can use all 8 inputs at the same time to simultaneously record 8 mono tracks. And you have up to 16 tracks for playback/mixdown. The only limitation is that you can only have 1 synth track (MIDI track) per project. So if Track 16 is your synth track, tracks 1-15 have to be audio tracks.
I have a note pad and a lap. Trying too down iOS controller app ? where from um
You need to download the iOS app from the Apple App Store. But you can only download it on an iPad. The app doesn't show up in the store if you are on an iPhone.
Is the Zoom R20, 16, 20 or 24 bit? Thanks.
The R20 can record at 16-bit or 24-bit with a 44.1kHz sample rate. But since you can stuff a 512GB SD card in there, I don't see any reason you need to use 16 bit recording. I've been happy with the 24-bit/44.1kHz of the R20.
@@GazRendar I was wondering if this would be a better choice as a looper say against headrush looper or the aeros looper? Since those cost $800.00 and $599.00 respectively. I imagine more Eq and stereo imaging would be the Zooms advantage, but the others can be controlled by foot.
No, I wouldn't consider using this as a live performance looper pedal. You need the foot control that those devices offer if you're trying to play live with a guitar or a synth. I would recommend the R20 as a multitracker recorder and a decent DAW replacement for those who do not want to use a computer to record. But to integrate into a live playing set-up, it doesn't work that great because there are some loading times and pauses you have to contend with. The effects pedals that specialize in looping are immediately responsive.
@@GazRendar Thanks, very helpful.
What’s with zoom and no midi sync?
Yeah, I just don't think it's at the forefront of the ZOOM engineers' minds. I think it boils down to ZOOM not really being synth people. They are more focused on recording, as opposed to say, Korg, who love synths (and therefore MIDI options). But Korg has also produced recording gear in the past.
I've been experimenting with trying to sync my Pocket Operators to the R20, but haven't been able to get anything to work consistently yet. If I get anything to work I'll be sure to post a video about it.
@@GazRendar I think they picked an audience and ignored a massive other audience, guys trying to multitrack out their gear. Midi would be an instant buy for me, I’m not one of those iPad guys, I want to feel my gear. Record away from the computer and transfer stems. All those tascam boxes that had midi sync didn’t have tight timing, it was waaaaay off actually and would drift, then they released all those small multitrackers, no midi. Zoom, no midi. I’m not even saying Midi options, midi sync, clock sync, Ableton link, something to match tempos. And it’s been overlooked so many times I have to assume there is a shortage of engineers with midi experience. It’s probably one of those “I wish it had the thing I need for my music” arguments but! We’re talking bout MIDI Clock, it’s kind of a thing now. Was a thing for every Roland Vs box back in the 90’s.
I'm 100% with you. A MIDI sync would be really helpful. I can sort of get a MIDI sync to work with pocket operators on my Zoom R8 using the click track out of the monitor, but it is prone to drifting. I've tried a similar approach with the R20 and it just doesn't work well. Seems like a simple thing to add, but no one is really doing that with multitrackers. I think engineers figure it's more live drummers and guitar players that buy multitrackers while synth people just use DAWs. But with so many good grooveboxes now that people use DAWless, it would make sense to create a great multitracker with MIDI sync. If you've watched any of my video game covers, that's all recorded on either my R8 or my R20. No DAWs. I would love to have a clean way to sync to the multitracker. With the R20's touchscreen for light editing, it would have been a perfect match.
@@GazRendar yeah, I had an r20. Couldn’t find much use for it. Just tried to manually sync my gear by pressing play on time. Not the best but it was cheap and not a computer. It feels like zoom may be out of touch or they are only interested in a specific group of music makers. Guess we’ll never know.
Thanks for the upload! This content desperately needs P R O M O S M!!
The internal midi keyboard sounds are literally unuseable. Just not good sounding at all. Low fidelity. Im using a 1980s Casio CZ-101 to get amazingly good synth sounds. Also have a microKORG that sounds great with the R20!
I'm not going to go as far to say they are unusable, but I will say they are limited. Again, I'm only recommending people buy this unit for it's multitrack recording and touchscreen track editing. The synth and rhythm tracks are more like bonus throw-ins. However, the foundation is there to have a MIDI track that is helpful in the context of complex songs with lots of tracks...and it seems like more synth voices is something that can be added in a firmware update. I hope ZOOM keeps improving the unit.
@@GazRendar I definately recommend it too. Im having a lot of creative output with it. Very nice unit. I have the R8 and wish the R20 had a similar ability to create drum patterns like the R8.
There's no acoustic piano sounds - what a bizarre thing to leave out.
The only stupid thing I think is you can have only one synt track....
Yeah, it's a clear limitation. However, until Zoom updates the R20 with some more/new synth sounds it's not a huge limitation because you're not going to want to use, like, 5 tracks of these basic synth sounds.
If you really want to have more than one synth track you can make a track, render it into an audio track, and that will free up space to have a new synth track. You can definitely build songs that way if you want.
again, really weird decisions, forcing the use of the midi keyboard instead of just allowing access to midi note edit screen from go. Who is the demographic they intended for this? I'm so beside myself, lol, completely weird!
ps give us the seth rogan laugh, please
You actually can edit straight from the midi grid. I posted another video about it and then as a test I played the intro to the Halo theme on it. It's acceptable for light MIDI edits, but in general, you're gonna want to use a keyboard controller. That is, unless the v2.00 update allows you to use your iPhone screen to edit, then the touch control might be really sharp. We'll have to wait and see...