ZOOM R20: most annoying thing after 18 months of use
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- I've been using the Zoom R20 multitrack recorder for a year and a half now and I think I understand the options, benefits, and limitations fairly well. I'm commonly asked about some of it's shortcomings (like lack of punch in and out, MIDI sync, built-in mics, and additional 1/4" jacks). While those limitations exist, I think the R20 still performs fairly well as a budget multitracker for musicians who do not want to use a DAW. However, there is one aspect of the R20 that annoys me more than any of those other limitations....
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:47 Should I buy a R20?
1:41 Thoughts on price
3:00 Lack of punch I/O
4:31 Number of combo inputs
5:05 No built-in mics
5:47 Most annoying thing
8:48 Final thoughts
![[Eng Sub] Zoom R20 multi-track recorder](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rGzhgW8HA1o/mqdefault.jpg)
A few direct boxes can easily overcome the lack of 1/4" inputs. A direct box is a must in any studio. My biggest problem with the R20 is the lack of MIDI synchronization. At the very least, the unit should be able to accept a stop/start command from another device.
A direct box or any mixer will get the job done, for sure. And if I have a synth with a headphone out, various TRS to XLR break out cables seem to work without an intermediate piece of gear. But yes, if you are doing serious recording I think direct boxes and mic pre-amps are critical.
I also agree with the MIDI sync. I would use that feature if it existed. However, I don't think any current stand-alone multi-trackers have MIDI sync. These days, you are mostly left with Zoom and Tascam for multitrack recorders and neither brand offers it. Tascam does have a 5-pin MIDI for sync on their Model 12 unit, but that's more a mixing board hybrid than a true multitrack recorder because you won't really be doing post-recording track editing directly on that device.
I would love to see Zoom update the R24 and give us a true flagship, DAWless multitrack recorder that has footswitch control and MIDI sync options.
If I could change or add anything really, it would be to add another Hi-Z input.
Thanks so much for taking the time to make all of your teaching videos, I really appreciate them 👍❤️
Thanks for the cheerful feedback. Glad the videos are helping. Happy recording!
Your remarks are spot on, there is ground for huge improvement on these devices. I Still cant get over the R8/R16/R24. Indeed the punch in/out feature is essencial for solo musician skecthing, built in mics. I Hope zoom's wizards take notes for next gen releases.
There's always hoping Zoom develops a true flagship multitracker as a successor to the R24 where they address some of those shortcomings. Also hopeful a firmware update down the road provides a punch I/O fix. We'll see...
agreed - same for streamers (or any audio signal to video) who want to comment or present whatever they're feeding through by USB or line out. Also teachers recording vocals or acoustic instruments on the fly during a lesson. The tiny XLR plug mic used in the video here is a nice workaround though.
I have 2 R24 for years and decided to purchase the R20 and on the same day I received it I wanted to send it back after I found out that it slowed down my progress ! The touch screen makes me feel like I'm recording with my phone! Too many windows for on task! And only 2 combo inputs? Now I can't record my band as before! Not happy with this one! I didn't research because I use many of their products and they are great! This not even close!
@@INNERCONNECTEDUNIVERSE Thank you sharing your experience. The R24 as old as it is, is a very efficient and portable device. I love the workflow.
Last year i was in the market for a new multitracker and the R20 didn't convince me at all. I ended up buying another used R24 as a backup of my current R24.
For the rest, if we want more than 20 tracks right now: apart from the R20, there's only the L20, Tascam model 24 and DP series. But those are way bulkier.
After a few months of using the R20, I had the problems of using 1/4 inch cable as well. After a while I found a little trick that helped me fairy well to get those cables easier out.
I will try to explain how I did that: Grab with your 4 fingers (not your thumb!) the cable, so you surround it and get as close as you can to the surface of the R20.
Now use your thumb as a lifting tool. To do that, bring your thumb in a "close to the cable" position, so that your thumb is close to your fingers and bended. Now stretch your thumb while still holding the cable...
Once when you done it, it's much easier done as writing this down... sorry for the long explanation.. hopefully it will work for other people too.. greetz
That technique definitely helps and I think it's good if people use that or a variation of that if they are plugging and unplugging 1/4" cords all the time. It just still drives me nuts that it needs to be unnecessarily difficult to work with 1/4" cords.
And maybe connecting the inputs to two inputs outside, like in a patch bay?
I absolutely love it!! It has turned me a bit lazy as it helps me record just a few bars of parts that I need!! Copy and paste etc is very very helpful. Recording comes out very good. For £325 when it came out I think it’s amazing. If it was big money then no but it really is great for the price!
Yep, it definitely has limitations, but if you can get it at a good price it will work well for plenty of musicians.
@@GazRendarI'm retired, haven't done much recording since the early 80s. I've owned a Boss BR1600CD for 20 years and have only used it once; I have a Tascam DP-03SD that I've never used. I also have Garaband on my iPad Pro and on my 2 Mac computers. I just saw a brand new R20 for sale locally for $250 - no sales tax, no delivery and have considered buying it. I offered $200, we'll see if they accept. For me, less options is a good thing. If I want endless options, I'd use my computer!
@@hienvu1714 Did they accept your offer?
I've been using a work-around trick for those annoying tight jacks. I bought a couple of 1/4 inch to xlr adapters. They're easy as heck to pop in and pop out and they work on any of the eight inputs. I can plug my bass or guitar into any of the eight inputs and it works great. They're fairly cheap and you could buy enough so that you could use all 8 channels at once.
Yep, you can do that, and in fact, I often use TRS to XLR cables to do something very similar to what you are describing. You just have to make sure you are using the right types of unbalanced converter cables, otherwise you could damage the circuitry in the inputs. Here's a video I made testing some different converter cables with the R20's inputs:
ua-cam.com/video/W6yneM66yCE/v-deo.html
I agree that the combo jacks on inputs one and two are tight, but I haven't had any real problem using them. For my home setup, I use a small mixer with a mic input and two stereo line inputs to feed the R20, so I can easily select keyboards or guitar or a computer sound card without having to change any patches. And I like the simplicity of moving R20 tracks after they are recorded, using the touch screen.No need to use more than one or two inputs unless you are doing a multi mic live music session.
For my dawless set up it’s been perfect. It’s great for making edits for final mix down to my live dawless session.
This is like saying that FL Studio on Windows 11 is perfect for dawless setup.
Zoom R20 is Digital Audio Workstation for sure.
Great videos, always really clear. Is there a video on how to use the compression and EQ for the R20 please?
Thanks!
And no video on the EQ/compression/noise gate/limiter yet. It has absolutely been on my to-do list for months, I just haven't gotten to that one yet. I've been trying to mix up my videos lately with some variety ....pocket operator video game covers, and Roland S-1 synth tutorials, along with R20 and R12 content. I will get to it, though!
@@GazRendar great, I will look out for it! Thanks
Hi Gaz, thanks for these videos, I’m looking into this R20 right now. As a newbie can I ask what is ‘punch in and out’ and in what situation would you need to use it? Also how have you found the memory storage for number of tracks/songs, do you need to constantly upload to external HDs? Thanks
Thanks for watching.
I bought a 64GB SD card as my main card and it pretty much carries all my projects and I still have plenty of space on there after two years of use. However, I do back-up the card to my computer every once in awhile and I delete old projects to keep the card clean with lots of open space, which seems to improve recording/write speed of the R20 after you hit the stop button to end a fresh recording. I think if you got one 64GB card, or two 32GB cards, you'll have lots of recording space as a hobbyist musician.
When recording with a multitracker you will probably have lots of little tiny mess-ups. Like you'll record a 2 minute long stretch of rhythm guitar on Track #1 that sounds good, but upon playback you realize you had one bar where you kind of messed up a quick part where you changed from one chord to the next. Punch in/out on a multitracker refers to the ability to hit a button (ideally with a footswitch) to start recording at a very specific moment during playback and then hit the button again to end the recording. This way you could playback what you recorded with rhythm guitar on Track #1 and during that 3 second stretch where you messed up the chord change you could have your guitar plugged into input 1 and record over that spot where you messed up to fix it. This way you don't have to re-record the whole 2 minute stretch. The R20 doesn't have a footswitch jack and it doesn't have a dedicated way to punch in/out. I would like to think Zoom could update the marker menu with a firmware update to automatically trigger a punch in/out with two markers. It doesn't exist as of v3.3, but it seems like something they could address with software.
In lieu of no punch in/out, I have instead hit the record button for Track #2 while Track #1 is playing and I play the correct chord fix on Track #2. Then using the touch screen, I tightly trim up the chord change I recorded on Track #2, and I splice that into the problem spot on Track #1. That can work, but it's more tedious.
Thanks for sharing these thoughts! Very helpful for my decision making. What mic is connecting to that 8th channel?
Thanks, happy to hear the videos help with the shopping process. The mic is my low-cost, DIY attempt to mimic built-in condenser mics. It kind of works, but has some limitations. I'm trying to feature it in a video soon!
Thank you very much. Combo jacks dealbreaker here. For band recordings there's typically at least two line signals needed, easiest taken from a line out output jack on guitar/bass amp or fx unit. If you're using line drivers (DI box) anyway jack to XLR cables can be used as a workaround though.
Also no monitor send or separate headphone jack AFAIK. Then you might as well look at mix+record units like Zoom LiveTrak, Behringer Air, Soundcraft 12 MTK, Tascam 16 channels something, etc. If your needs are more portable handheld multitrackers with stereo mics like the Zoom H6 are great value.
Haven't checked comp and fx options. R12/R20 users are probably using them to avoid any DAW and computer/tablet workflow, then you'll need comp on most if not all inputs and a send with fx (ie. reverb) to the headphones for vocals overdubbing.
Marginal killer feature is the Mackie control surface I guess, can speed up and simplify a lot of messing around with mouse/touch to fine tune details while mixing.
No arguments from me. That all makes sense. I think the Tascam Model 12 and Zoom L-12 are great options if you want a mixing board hybrid. But then the limitation of those devices is that they are poor for editing and moving parts of your tracks around after you initially record. If you are comfortable going from a raw recording on the L-12 or Model 12 straight to a DAW, then that's a good combo for most people. But if you are looking to completely stay away from a computer and a DAW, that's where I think the R12 and R20 fit in for that subset of people.
Why not just use adapters or hybrid XLR-TRS cables?
@@asynchronicity right, hadn't considered that option, thanks
Thanks for writing such a detailed answer! The MPCs are wildly deep and fast but unfortunately don't have arrangers as such and I'm not fond of the workflow. I do like simpler samplers but not as. draw substitutes. I definitely have to agree with you that the price of the R20 makes it well worth it. But I was literally waiting for a machine like this for years and would gladly pay double or near double the price for something that has the same super simple interface but plenty of memory and speed, sync, looper and a somewhat better set of onboard instruments. (And for another 200 dollars or so maybe a high quality onboard mic, and virtual tracks where you can mix and match different takes, like on the SmplTrek) In a way the R20 is built for speed in the outside but not on the inside. It did surprise me it cost only that, that they chose to release it with that particular set of features (and limitations!). I'm in the strange position of having to hesitate between the Tascam Model 16 and the Zoom R20, which are different beasts but not entirely. It definitely seems like there's a missing piece of gear between the two. And since zoom has the other multitrackers that compete head on with the Tascam I wish they do an R20 "Pro" one day. They sure have the technology to pump one out if they want to. Anyway thanks for your time, I'll listen to the track you mentioned and give it further thought
I agree with you. If you go with the R20 you have to make compromises. If you got with the Model 12 or Model 16, or the L-12 or something, you have other compromises. Samplers and arrangers like the SmplTrek or Deluge just don't quite cut it for full song creation if you want to use guitars and bass and vocals, etc.
The R20 is the successor to Zoom's older R16. And the R12 is the successor to the R8. But Zoom has an R24 that they haven't updated yet. I really hope Zoom makes a true flagship model multitracker that has 8 combo inputs, 20 or more tracks, better internal processor power and RAM, MIDI sync, and they build off the synth features that they included with the R20. If that cost $500-700, that could still be worth it. It would also be nice if Tascam competed and updated their very old DP-24 and DP-32 units to something more modern, again, between $500-800 would be worth if it they didn't have significant compromises.
With Zoom updating their entire handy line right now, maybe it's possible they will release an update to the R24 later in the year. I'm trying to be hopeful...
@@GazRendarThat's exactly what I was thinking. Hoping Zoom will enhance the R20 and offer something in the price range you mention. And yes, if Tascam came up with an evolution of the Model 16 and 24 that considerably improved that screen I'd be very curious indeed since you get an analog mixer and many many cool features the R20 just doesn't have and all those dedicated knobs. As it stands I'm still using Ignite and Audacity on the computer and my favorite hypothetical standalone multitracker that I don't have remains a Tascam 388 from 40 years ago, when home recording was simple and had that fat sound! Of course maintenance on a 388 is nothing but simple and you have to be rich to get one. At the end of this discussion we might as well be hired by Tascam or Zoom and have them let us project manage that ideal machine hahaha
Hi, what is that mic that you've got plugged into port 8? Looks to be some kind of all in one/mini XLR? Can't seem to find anything similar on Google. If you can advise that'd be great, thanks
It's not an all-in-one XLR mic. I kinda had to DYI make it. It's nothing great, but it gets the job done in a pinch:
ua-cam.com/video/yKQ6plHUvMk/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar Thank you for the reply, at least explains why I couldn't find anything online. Well done!
I bought my R20 for $349 US. At the time, I was choosing between the R20 and the Tascam DP-24. The main thing I wanted was more tracks, more inputs, and more simultaneous recording than my Tascam DP-008 has (it has two inputs, and can only record two tracks at a time). The Tascam 24-track machine would have cost $100 more than the 16-track Zoom R20.
My main issue with the R20 has been that the 1/4 jacks--the ones that are part of the combo jacks--are very hard to plug in or unplug. That seems not to be the case with *every * R20, but I've seen other users report the same.
I could send it back, but I won't before making sure someone at Zoom understands what the issue is. Just my luck, they might send me a new R20 that has the same problem.
Instead, I bought 1/4" to XLR instrument cables so I don't have to use the 1/4" jacks...which are on the Hi-Q channels, and I need those channels for guitars and low-power keyboards.
Now, the issue that will probably affect anyone who buys an R20: it does not come with a full manual. The operations manual is available for free as a PDF. I found the PDF manual annoying to use, and I printed all 200-some-odd pages onto paper to make it more usable.
After these challenges (btw, the manual is not very well written) the Zoom R20 has my "meh, it's okay" rating.
This advice for others: there is nothing to be gained by rendering projects to WAV format. That rendering doubles the storage size of the projects, and the projects already contain the WAV files for each track.
Like, is Zoom's brudder-in-law in the SD card business or what?
Yeah, it definitely doesn't come with the full manual. I think many manufacturers have gotten away from the full manuals if they think they are going to provide firmware updates that will change the functions of the machine. Plus it's just cheaper for them to post them as PDFs while claiming they are doing it to "be green." But that's also why I try to post some tutorial videos, since there is no printed manual I try to help other R20 users and pass along the little things I've learned along the way.
Rendering is only really useful if you need to convert a MIDI synth track into an audio tracks. For most other cases, I wouldn't choose to render. I instead opt to Mix Down tracks, especially if I want to imprint an insert effect onto it.
Here below is my work around for the bad Input jack options and impossible 1/4" socket strength. Disclamer: I recommend this for current owners of the R20. I can't personally recommend anyone purchase this unit and then have to purchase these additions.
D'Addario PW-P047Z XLR Male to 1/4 inch Female TRS Adapter $5.99/ea
(Search on Sweetwater UA-cam won't let me post the Link)
I purchased 8 of these adapters not long after I got the R20 a good while back now. They are a life saver with this unit. It is so much easier to deal with the missing combo jacks and eliminates the hard 1/4" connector issue when using them on the 1st 2 combo jacks. It's a shame one has to go to this level but for those of you who have the R20 it really helps. Just plug all or any combo of of your 1/4" and XLR cables in and go. when ready just switch recording banks from 1-8 to 9-16 and keep going. Depending on your setup and needs you could also run all or some leaving a few for XLR needs) of the inputs through 1/4" cables to a small 1U patch bay and never touch the cables again, just swap around your equipment I/O on the patch bay.
Yes, you are totally spot on. It gives users many more options and opens up the mixing board for more possibilities. Those D'Addario converters are great and compact if you are using a balanced TRS signal. For unbalanced signals you just need a different TRS to XLR adapter. I covered some of those details in this video (but didn't use the exact type of adapter you are using):
ua-cam.com/video/W6yneM66yCE/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar Ah ok I didn't see you had a video on using converters. True that if you are say going Unbalanced TS with Hi-z direct into the R20 for instance you are going to need a different adapter or just use the onboard 1/4" of death. I usually run TS out of an Guitar digital Multi Effects unit or straight out of the 1/4" TS L/R of Synths/Drum Machines at relatively short distances with high qualty TS, I don't typically come upon any issue. Some boards like the Juno X offer XLR outputs from the board itself that would allow you to just go directly in that route if you wanted/needed but that feature is not extremely common. If it's something one has the time and venue for there is going to be a lot more mic to amp usage that would put the XLR's onboard back in service anyhow.
Thanks for your great videos. They are very informative!
Can you tell me what the small plug in mic you have there is? I've been thinking of getting a portable multitrack but none of the new ones have built in mics.
Also there are no comparison videos between the Livetraks and the R series, which seems strange? Do you have any experience with the Livetraks? Would be a good video to make as I can't find one!
Thanks again
If you go to his channel he has a video of the mic 🎤 I think it’s his 4th video called, DIY built in mic.
Hey thanks for all these videos, they are really really helpful... but i have a question... i pretend to use one of these, could be R12, R20, R8 or R16 for backing tracks??? could be good??? currently in my band we are, one guitarrist, bass, vocalist and Drummer, i just want that the drummer hear the Click and send the backing tracks to FOH.
You can use it for that purpose, as long as you recognize the limitations. You have a line-level monitor out and a headphone out on the R20. You can send the click to either and adjust the volume level for the click individually on the monitor out or headphones. But you won't be able to send certain backing tracks to the monitor out vs. the headphone out. It's the same tracks for both. In other words, if you have recorded guitar parts on Tracks #1-3 and bass on Track #4 -- and you only want to the drummer to hear the bass track and click, but have the rest of the band hear all 1-4 Tracks, you can't do that. Everyone would have to hear whatever tracks you choose to hear. You can mute the other tracks and only activate Track #4 and the click, but Track #4 will be routed from the fader control board to both the monitor out and the headphone out.
Have you tried using some electronic spray lubrication for the 1/4 in, plug? If you spray some on the end of your cable it may make it easier to plug in/out. By spraying the cable end you also lube the input port when you plug it in. I can't recall the name of the product I've used and am not at home so I can't check but I imagine there are a number of products available for this purpose. Just a thought. Thanks for the video - I agree with all your ideas for improvements btw!
I've seen those spray lubricants but I've been leery of using them, especially in recording equipment, just because I worry about it eventually gunking up the connection which might lead to low level noise/hiss in the recordings. II don't doubt that it might make the connection for inputs 1 and 2 easier to use, but I worry about the long term side effects from it that I haven't tried it out (yet). If you wind up using a lubricant for the R20 and it improves the input 1 and 2 jacks, definitely let us know!
Gaz,
Salutations! I'm shocked! I have been using my R20 to record for a little over a year now and my 1/4 inch inputs don't grab like that. There is a slight click, but it is pretty easy to remove them. I wonder if this could be a parts issue rather than a design flaw. I do agree that having only two 1/4 inch inputs changes the way I record. I am constantly needing to move tracks and switch cables. It forces me, in most cases, to record the entire track of one instrument before recording any thing else. I was fortunate to find an Orange Super Crush 100 Amp head that has a di xlr direct out for my guitars but, my Bass guitar and synthesizers use 1/4 inch input/output jacks.
That being said, this unit has fit my needs wonderfully and I love it. For me the most annoying aspect of this machine is when rendering to a USB it will sometimes not download to the USB at all, and at times I will have to render it more than once to the USB so that I can save it to file within my desktop computer. Also, if I push the stop button twice without waiting to see the WAV recording populate the file track it can wipe out the whole recording! So just a second or two after I finish recording I will pause before pushing twice.
I am now recording/mixing and producing 10 and 11 tracks, copy and pasting, setting eq's on tracks, sending volumes at different levels and preparing now for use with my DAW, finally.
Your videos were a great deal of help to me in the beginning and continue to be a reliable reference if I am searching for a possible solution regarding the Zoom R20 Digital Recorder.
Keep up the good work!
Sincerely,
Thomas
So is that mini-mic phantom-powered? Do you use it for vocals?
In the video it appears that the phantom power switch is on and I would never consider using anything like that for any type of singing vocals
My biggest complaint, and it has sent me into some pretty nasty rages, is how it'll freeze up.
If you try to record over a track, it can freeze up for around a minute when you press STOP.
I usually only do this by accident at this point, but when I'm frothing at the mouth, ready to record some drums and that bugger freezes.........oh, man, I gotta get up and take a walk outside to cool down. 😃
It only takes a second for that inspiration to fade, so a recorder that stops working constantly is a real pain.
Moral of the story: Don't try to record over anything.
I haven't really had a full freeze up happen to me, but the R20 (and R12) can slow down, no doubt about it. I've noticed that too when I keep trying to do a 4-measure take over and over again for a guitar part that I just can't quite hit. I'm not sure if that's something that can be improved with future firmware updates, or if the processor inside is just underpowered. I suspect it's more the processor than the software...
Oh crap! Zoom has let us down with this one! I love my old R16! It will practically never freeze. I hate recording with interfaces straight to computer couse 80% of the time there's problems with the sound. R16 is my work horse. I got it back in 2015 and it's been through a lot. Still It just works. About 2 times it has crashed completely in the years of me using it but when i took the power off and turned it back on the recordings were not ereased. Now it's discontinued, RIP. Maybe i'll buy used one after mine stops going but it's working fine for know
I had the same issue, and found that 95% of the time if I just waited 4 or 5 seconds after stopping recording to play or record again, it usually behaves. You kinda have to give it time to adjust. But yeh, that’s annoying.
I also was frustrated that the R20 interface would freeze during overdubs. I eventually realized that the processor rewrites the entire track when you overdub, and if the amount of data on a track is large, it can be very slow. I recorded a play that was about 90 minutes, and when I tried to punch in to fix a section, it froze for about five minutes. I eventually concluded the R20 can be slow, but it is quite reliable and doesn't actually crash. Patience required sometimes. To avoid the slowdown, it is better to record a new track, rather than overdub where feasible. Changing the bit size from 24 to 16 also helps, and there is no significant difference in the sound quality, to my ears. I had an R16 before, and I did like the punch in capability of the older machine, but I much prefer the R20 for the sound quality, and the editing capabilities with the big touch screen. Happy recording!@@Ghoopty
Hi Gaz I've had my R20 for a couple of weeks I'm having problems where tracks or part of tracks disappear after I switch off or reload I did a factory reset It came with firmware version 3.0 any thoughts
Did you update to v3.3? There were several recording bugs that were fixed in v3.1 and v3.3. They might be the bugs you are experiencing?
ua-cam.com/video/TBNtkzht09o/v-deo.html
I also ran into a bug where what I recorded would disappear right after I hit stop:
ua-cam.com/video/cYGhOfLOP-Y/v-deo.html
The last thing is if you changed your tempo to something much faster, that can chop off part of your recording.
Hey I’m wondering if that midi track can be bounced to another track then used again
Thanks for all your info great job
Thank you!
Yes, you can create a synth track and simply use the piano roll to place notes, or you can record with a MIDI controller. When you are done with that synth track, you can go into the track settings and render it into an audio (.WAV) file. Once you make the .WAV file, you can import that .WAV file into your project, delete your old synth track, and make an all new-synth track. You can keep doing that over and over to make a whole song. However, just note that you'll be stuck using the 18 synth sounds that Zoom provides (as of v3.3). Here's a video where I made the theme to Halo using just the R20's piano roll. I made a bassline as a synth track first, rendered it, and then made the melody with a new synth track.
ua-cam.com/video/TIRmae3ywaw/v-deo.html
THANKS@@GazRendar
I tried using a 1/4" trs cable from a stereo Zoom pedal on the multi-jacks and it is always a hassle to find the tip/ring/sleeve notch. What irks me is I had no problems with TRS cables on my R16. I gave up on the TRS cable and now use a TRS to dual XLR to record everything. My multi-jacks are actually loose with any 1/4" cable. If a cable hangs off my desk, it can lose contact.
But, the recorder works for me. I like it overall.
Yeah, I had no problems with my 1/4" cables on my R8. So I don't know why Zoom opted to use those specific combo jacks on the R20. You know that they had to test it in R&D...and they still said, sure, let's use these? Baffling.
My biggest R20 gripes are:
1. No battery-powered option
2. Only 2 combo jacks but not a deal breaker
3. Combo jacks are far too grippy as talked about in this video
Hey Gaz, can you save a effect to a track after it’s recorded? I see that you can insert an effect before you record the track, but can you do that after you record a track without having to mix down to another file and re-record?
Do you think you could run a dual 1/4 cable from the L-R Outputs back in as inputs? (say input 1, or 1&2 if stereo linked) That way the send effect could record to a brand new track while you are replaying a pre-recorded track?
Let me know if that makes any sense. I’m not sure of the L-R outputs are like level or not
Here's a video with some more info:
ua-cam.com/video/xEbVO_L3l9Q/v-deo.html
If you have a track that was recorded dry, you can use MIX DOWN to apply a send effect to it. The result will be a .WAV file that ends up in your AUDIO folder of the SD card that you can then import back into your project. However, if you go this route, and you started with a MONO track, the result will be a STEREO track.
If your track is mono and you want to try to keep it mono (say on....Track #6), what you could do is solo Track #6 and then pan it all the way to the right. Set up your send effect patch on Track #6. Run a 1.4" mono TS cable from the R monitor out into an input #1 to an open Track #1. Goto Track#1 and pan that all the way to the left. Then you should be able to REC that in real time and get that track to be recorded with the send effect imprinted on it. It'll just be on Track #1. You can then move that track around to anywhere else in the project once it's done recording.
Thank you so much Gaz this was incredibly helpful
I just bought 1/4” to XLR adapters to plug into the top when I need those.
I use those adapters quite often. especially when i am using my keyboards to record into the R20
I bought the R20 when it was first released but hardly used it as I found it such a disappointment. I’ve recently given it another chance and developed something of a love/ hate relationship with it.
The touch screen is, of course, the major selling point (much better when you use a stylus as you suggest!) and there are a few other pluses but there are so many frustrating limitations and omissions in the software.
Yes, the awkwardness of inserting and withdrawing of quarter inch jack plugs is irritating but it’s by no means the worst fault. As others have mentioned, the lack of punch in/out is a big problem but what really makes me mad is the absence of being able to loop between two designated points; as a guitar player I really like to work out guitar or bass parts and rehearse them by looping between specific points in song and I don’t think I’ve ever encountered any hardware recorder before that lacked this ability - an amazing omission.
Pros - the touch screen track editor, the effects are pretty decent, the ‘synth’ sounds and midi drum sounds are better than I expected (but see below)
Cons - no proper looping, no punch in/out, no ability to name the tracks, only one midi track possible, track mute and solo would be more logical on the mix screen than the track editor, only ten named flag points per song, the inability to cut and paste as well as copy and paste is slightly irritating, the lack of a minutes/seconds timer on the track editor, the limited choice of time signatures, the very limited choice of synth sounds (why no string pads for example?), the preset drum patterns are mostly horrible (although, to be fair, the R20 is far from alone in that fault) and take an age to load, you can move backwards to flags with a button push but not move forwards, I could go on and on with things that bug me about the R20.
I’ve also had issues with system glitches - frequent system freezes, ‘SD card full’ messages when trying to duplicate songs (and the card is absolutely nowhere near full)
Most of these issues could perhaps be solved with a comprehensive software update, although I doubt that is likely to happen - if Zoom can’t even get their iOS app to show the track editor (what is the point of the app without that!) then I’m not optimistic about them updating the software more generally.
As for hardware improvements, I really wish there was a jog wheel to advance/reduce values and maybe a dedicated mute/solo button on each track.
I bought the R20 because I really like the idea of a simple all-in-one box that I can plug my guitar into while I sit on the couch and sketch out ideas, which I can perhaps develop further in my home studio later. It’s almost a great piece of kit but my impression is that perhaps the processor/memory is so woefully underpowered that Zoom have had to make many compromises in the software, it’s just such a disappointment.
I don't disagree with you on any of these good points.
I would love to have a true looping feature as well. As a poor man's work around, I will use the white tab to stretch out audio regions over and over so I can get a full 1-2 minutes of the same 20 second loop where I can workshop a bass line under a melody I laid down, but yeah, it's just a lame work around. Especially since you already can lay down markers - why not give us the ability to loop that section in the marker menu, and give us auto-punch I/O?
I do miss my R8's jog wheel, especially when working with the effects menus.
I haven't had the SD card full message that others have mentioned in the comments sections, but I do get lagging performance or long spinning loading wheels at times.
The synth sounds should be a little more varied in my opinion. Drives me nuts they don't have a couple string options and I completely do not understand why you can't get a classic grand piano sound. I am not excited about the electric piano they have in there.
I still think the device is good (but definitely not perfect) for many guitar players or rock band types for the money, especially if you get it for under $400 on sale. But it's going to come up short when you really try to put together multiple, highly polished songs for an album. Once you get to that stage, you probably need to import some tracks into a DAW and finish your projects there.
Just receive mine today ! I think these things are not necessary so bad. No device is perfect. Sure we must do some trade offs when buying such economic devices but still look great from my point of view.
For sure, you are correct. These things are not so bad, but I do want viewers to know that no device is perfect, especially something that is more of a budget recorder. So I try to be transparent about the things that I like and don't like about the devices I use.
Regarding the tight jacks, I wonder if they are designed for a metric 6mm plug?
I mean, it's possible, but Zoom has been releasing North American equipment for at least 25 years now and their previous stuff that I've owned hasn't had this problem. I think I bought a bass multi-effect pedal from them in the late '90s when I was a kid and my 1/4" plugs fit in there with no issues. I'm guessing they picked a new supplier for their combo jacks for this particular device and that supplier just makes tight jacks for whatever reason...?
Could I swap out the regular XLR inputs with combo jacks? Or is there more to it than unsoldering the regular XLRs and soldering in new combo jacks? I have an Alesis io14 that is a "parts interface," that has 4 combo jacks that I would use.
I'm guessing that you could open the thing up, cut out the combo jacks on inputs 3 and 4, and try to solder in some new combo jacks. But I'm not sure about the impedance matching between the jack and the preamp. And I don't think I would mess with inputs 5-8 since those are phantom power capable. Plus, you'd have to worry about the positioning of the set screws to keep the new jacks tightly anchored into the R20, and keep them anchored in there somewhat level with the other jacks so it doesn't look horribly frankenstein wonky.
If I ever see a cheap used R20 at a pawn shop or something I might buy it just to open it up and try something like that. But until then, I'll just use some various TRS to unbalanced XLR mono cables:
ua-cam.com/video/W6yneM66yCE/v-deo.html
I managed to get an r20 basically brand new off Facebook marketplace for 250$ at that price I can't complain about it but if zoom is really trying to sell this for 450$ now that's definitely way too much for it...
Yeah, at $250 if it's used but in good shape, it's a really good recorder for a lot of musicians. At $449, that pool of people who will get full value out of it shrinks considerably.
I remember back in the day you could lay down a black track, FSK or Smpte code to trigger sequencers.
Can you share something you have made soley on this machine? Thanks for your insights. 👊
I haven't really shared some of the larger guitar/drums/bass/synth projects I've made because to date, I've really just made those for jobs outside of UA-cam and I didn't want to run into any common copyright issues with my own stuff once I post to UA-cam. A few months ago I did start working on an album that I would ideally release on UA-cam and the other usual places. I've been using the R20 for that. My goal is to have it done by the end of 2023, but regular life stuff has gotten in the way and has slowed my progress there. I'm still trying to get project done.
In the meantime, most of my video game covers from the past 18 months have been 100% recorded, edited, and mastered on the R20. They are with simpler instruments like Pocket Operators and small synths, and only use between 2 - 8 tracks, but it still shows what's possible with the R20. It might not seem like it, but this recent example actually needed hours of R20 project work to record, edit, stereo separation and panning, effects, and mix down (best with headphones on to hear stereo effects):
ua-cam.com/video/kjK_vrp8TnU/v-deo.html
Also this one (again with headphones on to appreciate stereo effects):
ua-cam.com/video/4aY3Cpcza5s/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar thanks for this and all of your work!
Don't know if it's just mine, but it makes these weird cracking sounds from the plastic case, like it's cooling down or heating up, even when it's not been switched on for days. Must be a very thin plastic casing.
There's also a lack of common sense in the UI, like having the bpm setting split into units of ten for _each_ single bpm as default with no option to go one bpm at a time. Its not a big deal, but who really wants their song at 90.5bpm? Also, the addition of even one extra 1/4 jack and an app for Android would make a huge improvement
All true. I guess it's better to have the precision of a tenth place bpm than not? But yes, if they are going to give us 0.1 bpm control, then why not just add a second (+) icon where we can skip bpms by whole numbers instead of slow 0.1 increments?
I haven't had the issue with the cracking noises from from the plastic housing. The plastic housing is ok for me, but it's definitely cheaper than the harder plastic they used for the old R8.
Mine cracks, too. I blame it on the changing humidity in my house.
It seems to have been doing it less since I've stopped making fires in my wood stove this summer.
My most annoying thing after a couple of years of use is that regions will inexplicably DISAPPEAR the next time I turn the unit on after a session. Now I’ve got to record the same guitar part all over again. I don’t know if I just need to wait a minute before I turn it off (it’s been established that the Zoom freezes up if you give it commands too quickly), I don’t know. But it’s enough to make me consider getting a different unit by a different company. Or it could just be mine…..🤷♂️
P.S. - just read in the comments about the firmware update. I’m on 3.0. That’s probably it (hopefully!)
I'm simple. The only things that I wish it had was punch in/out and input routing. For my son's usage, this would be the perfect box. He still loves it but that really slows down his workflow.
Yeah, you can get around the lack of punch in and punch out by using a free track, but I still wish they would just create a firmware update that allowed you to set up markers with punch I/O capabilities. Seems like the most obvious thing to develop that would appease a lot of current users and potential users.
@@GazRendar Exactly; when you realize that a lot of things look to be software limitations and not the hardware, it just makes more sense. I wonder if they have a feedback system. I wonder what is hard about importing the input routing that the R12 has.
I haven't seen a formal feedback system for Zoom. I tried to reach out before with some questions about R12 before it came out, but those emails didn't go anywhere.
I'm still going to hold out hope for a punch I/O system through the marker menu. We'll see what happens.
I don't see them bringing input routing to the R20. If you look at the schematics, the R20 is definitely based off the old R16, which also lacked input routing. I think it's hardwired that Input 1 can only goto Track 1 or 9, Input 2 to Track 2 or 10 and so on. I don't think a software update can change that hardwiring. However, compared to punch I/O, the track routing doesn't bother me at all on the R20. It's so easy to move the tracks around after I record them with the touchscreen, that the routing isn't close to being an issue for me. I do it constantly to change how I group and re-group guitar tracks and vocal tracks and percussion tracks as I continue to build a song.
I love the Zoom R16 i've had since beginning of 2015, that thing has traveled with me to many places and i've recorded about 6 albums with it. As i'm looking at R20 it seems like a downgrade. R16 has some features i would like to add, more phantom powers, varispeed control, 48khz samplerate option + better preamps. If Zoom would make a multitracker with F6 preamps with 32bitfloat recording, 8 inputs with newly designed combo jacks with phantom option on every channel + varispeed control that would be so good. This r20 looks like a let down to me and they have discontinued the R16, RIP
Try a flat head screw driver on the jack to pry it up or needle nose plyers to lossen the cord from the jack
I thought of that, but it makes me nervous to use some extra tools like that to try to get the cords to come loose. I'm worried about breaking something instead of making it easier for me to remove the cables.
What annoys me most, is that if you want to add an effect on already recorded tracks, the effect you choose for prerecorded track 1, will be the same effect you get on for instance track 4. Or am I doing something wrong here?
Yes, you are correct. Whether you are using a send effect or an insert effect....either way....you can only use one effect patch at a time. If you already recorded a track dry, you can apply a send effect and Mix Down that track to imprint that effect onto it. Then you can re-import that track with the effect on it. That allows you to use a new effect on other track(s).
For reference, I made a video where I tried to explain how the effects work in a little more detail:
ua-cam.com/video/xEbVO_L3l9Q/v-deo.html
I agree that the R20 is not good for adding multiple custom effects to tracks, but that doesn't bother me. I see this as a very convenient tool to make quick high quality multi track recordings, up to eight tracks at a time, at home or in the field. I love the simplicity and the sound quality of the R20. For the odd time I want more than that, I'll go to my friend's studio and get him to sweat with his DAW and protools. The more effects, the more convoluted the work flow. @@GazRendar
I think you have to be the most experience person with this thing. You don't have any complaints about the speed or a lack of memory? I've seen some people complain about the speed making it virtually unusable.
I don't think the speed makes it virtually unusable. In a vacuum I wouldn't give the R20 a 5-star rating. However, everything is relative...
Most of my projects I'm using 4-8 tracks, and each track will have 1-4 audio regions. Like my Castlevania Ripe Seeds cover or Robocop theme song cover. At that level, I'm not experiencing too much slow down, and sometimes no slow down. However, when I have used 10-16 tracks, each of them with multiple audio regions and I approach the 50 audio region limit for the machine, yes, no doubt you have to contend with some slow down in between actions. But I spent $349 on the thing and you can get it on amazon this minute for $309. That's a budget recorder. You have to be realistic on what you are getting and what you have to deal with. I would get frustrated with my other more expensive multitrackers over the years because it would be hard to place markers, precisely slice up audio regions, and try to move them to another spot on another track. Maybe I didn't have graphic screen slow down on those multitrackers, but that's because there was no color screen with any visuals whatsoever. I only had timestamps to work with on my VS-880 or D16. So it's all a trade-off.
Personally, you have to decide if you even need a multitracker. The R20 and R12, and most multitrackers in general - their advantage is that you can edit your audio directly on the device and you usually have access to more effects than other simple recorders. But if you have effects pedals and you only need to record on a stand-alone device because you are going to bring your tracks over to a computer for all your editing and mixing down, then you should either get a handy recorder or a mixing board/multitrack recorder hybrid if you want to stay under $500. Otherwise you can totally get an MPC X for $2,200 and not have slow down and have no problem slicing up tracks and can add all kinds of effects and synth sounds. But for something that costs $300-ish dollars, if you have a little patience, I don't think the R20 is unusable. But I can also see why some people want to throw it out the window if it doesn't do the one or two very specific things they care most about. That's what happens with budget purchases, there are gonna be some compromises.
I have not purchased one yet but with my other stand alone units ( Tascam 2488mkII and my trusty, but Hella old Fostex VF 160 i have a DP 24 but something happened to it and it will not produce any sound and I'm afraid to send it off for repairs due to it may cost more than what i paid for it so its just sitting in a corner ) i have 1 barely or never used the onboard efx. I have always utilized the efx with my instruments for one to save time and a lot of times they just sound better than what is in these units to me. i have an MPC ONE and it only has a 2 channel stereo out and ive been getting a 2 channel stereo mix that sounds like I've done everything on separate tracks due to using the 300 plus efx on board that's including vocals ( although i am a singer i mainly do instrumental stuff with a vocal hook of my self that is either natural or done with a talk box or vocoder sample that, slap a nice effect on it and put it in the mix. If i purchased one that is all i will do with it with the use of addition tracks for added key solos, guitar or bass or special effect sounds. Ive never used punch in or out, midi sync on any of my other units. the feature that I'd probably like is the drag and drop so if i decided to do separate tracking I can record anything in and sync it up by dragging or nudging it. like a friend of mine did at his studio where he had me to run the beat in, then the keys bass parts and other stuff and he lined all the up. Funny thing is it really sounded no different and it made him a believer in the MPC ONE's capabilities though. In closing if i snatch one of these joints up I probably wont experience some of the issues posted other than that plug issue although i don't plan on taking it out the house much other than for mastering a project at my friends studio so like my other recorders the plugs will stay in ( but from my POV you got that joint outta there though been more of a problem if it took you several tries or had to use a tool to unplug it) n . when using units like this i found out that a mixture of old school ways of recording which are classified as "no no"s now have worked like a muthafucka for me. Saves time and headaches. built in mic? nahh not a feature Id want or would ever use. All these unit have short comings and i have learned you get what you pay for. i also learned how to finesse shit on em too to get what i want. anyway i did enjoy the review and i still may purchase one regardless.
Obviously the Tascam 16 would be next choice up but menu-divy. Nice channel strip and it's analog but not nearly as fun/quick to use as this. I'd fork out 1000-1200 euros for an R24 with these additional features:
1. 12 inputs with 4 TRS and 8 XLR and no combo jacks. Put Hi-Z switch on all 4 TRS strips
2. Larger screen
3. More synths, like 100, including samples and obviously acoustic piano
4. Proper MIDI including sync
5. Onboard, highest quality possible stereo mic
6. Looper
7. Pedal input for punch in
8. Less limited insert and send FX, so you can have a few going at a time on different tracks
9. Let you have at least 4 MIDI tracks simultaneously without having to render
10. Onboard hard drive
11. Internal battery
+ as Bonus if it's gonna be slightly larger format some physical EQ controls would be cool on the channel strips that could work as insert effect or only for playback.
Great video. You're right, once those cables are in, no chance to remove them.
Oh, what's that microphone, please? I think I want to have that, too. :-)
Thanks! And I left that mini mic in there as a sneak peek for my next R20 video. I figured you would appreciate the DIY mic solution I tried to create. I got a couple videos scheduled for next week, hope to get that video up there soon...stay tuned!
@@GazRendar I was about to ask that... looks like your "built in mic" answer?
It's not perfect. Sometimes you need a lot of gain to make it work, but I'm trying to create an under-$20 solution to no built-in mic. Experimenting with a few cheap components...
Actually, does it have the punch in/out function?? Thanks
Sadly, as of v3.3, it does not have an official punch in/out function. There is no footswitch input control on the R20. And you cannot set up markers to automatically trigger a punch I/O. The marker thing seems like something they could hypothetically address in a firmware update, but I have no idea if Zoom will do that or not.
If you want to fix something on say, Track #2, you can play Track #2 while it's armed, then manually hit the record button right at the spot that you want to fix, and then hit the record button when you are done fixing it. Obviously, you would need a third hand to do that if you are playing guitar. But if someone else is manning the R20 for it, it can be done. Otherwise, the work around is to instead playback Track #2 and arm and record on Track #3. Just play the "fixed" guitar part or whatever on Track #3, trim it up with the touchscreen, and splice it into Track #2 where the problem part was. It's more tedious, but I can attest that it is doable.
hello, Italy here...
you have several videos on the R20 but I write here....
the question is:
Can I invert the phase of a channel?
for mid/side recording, without having to replace the cable with the hot-cold reversed every time.
if on the one hand it is convenient to make recordings directly with the phase inverted on the other it is not really convenient given that the recorded material will always remain either inverse phase or correct phase...
As far as I know, you cannot invert the phase of a channel with the R20.
Is there any adapters for the xlr to 1/4 plug?
Do you mean use adapters so you can use more XLR inputs? I did a video on that where I used 1/4"' plugs to the XLR jacks:
ua-cam.com/video/W6yneM66yCE/v-deo.html
My biggest problem with my R20 is that it gets extremely slow when there are a lot of recordings on the SD card. I would pay twice what I payed if there was more processing power to make this thing a bit more snappy. Actually, I can’t believe more people aren’t complaining about this. I’m looking to replace mine because of this issue, that’s how bad it is. Does anyone else feel this way?
It can slow down. For a lot of my simple recordings that have like 8 tracks or less, and each track only has 1-3 audio regions, it mostly does ok. But I know as you get closer and closer to the 50 audio region limit, it slows down more and more, especially if you are doing lots of takes on a track. And as the SD card fills, that can slow it down as well. Every once in awhile I back up my SD card and move a bunch of old projects to my computer and then clean up my SD card. For my primary 64GB card that I use for the R20, I do my best to keep it under 15-20GB occupied at all times. That seems to help.
@@GazRendar Thank you for the reply. I wish the manufacturer had specified a limit on the SD card before I purchased a 256gb card.
Hi - I used my Zoom R20 to record some live drums last week. I had the drummer play to a backing track and although he said the cans were a bit quiet we managed to lay down around 6 tracks wit ha few performances for each. We left it a few days and when we played it back it's all out of sync. Very strange as it too far out to just be down to performance, almost as if playing to a different track at times. Anyone had any similar issues. Not exactly sure what has gone wrong to be honest..
I was using all 8 inputs by the way with the backing track placed on 9 and 10..
I have not witnessed that problem myself, but I've only recorded with 6-8 inputs being simultaneously used a handful of times. I'm typically using inputs 1 and 2 or inputs 1-5 for most of my stuff.
What firmware version are you on? The current version is 3.3 and there were some bug fixes since 2.0 that addressed certain saving and playback issues. That might be true if you laid down something on say Track #3, and then went back and recorded over Track #3 again. The R20 typically saves multiple Track#3 files on the SD card in a case like that. It could be playing back the wrong versions across the tracks...so like Track #3 is playing the second take while Track #5 is playing back your fourth take. If you pop out the SD card and check out the .WAV files on a computer you can see if something that was happening. I'd recommend starting there and then looking at your firmware to make sure you are on v3.3.
WD-40 Specialist Contact spray might help.
I agree...I've just been wary of slowly accumulating some gunk in the inputs and having it cause more problems than it solves. So two years later I still rely on yanking the 1/4" cords out with more force than I'd like.
anyone else having trouble with the solo/mute flyout tab on the track #'s with the audio levels on it? I can't seem to get rid of it consistently.
Yeah, that's definitely a thing. I've gotten better at it, but you'll even see in some of my videos that it takes me two tries to close it.
Could you unscrew the XLR and change them out for a combo?
I think it's possible. I just haven't been willing to risk damaging my inputs 3 and 4 to test out that hypothesis, but I'd be happy to hear that if that plan worked for anyone else. In theory, seems like you should be able to remove it, cut some wires inside, and re-solder a new combo connection. The jack would have to be the right depth, though.
Wow the combo jacks are really hard🙈
Yep. The jacks on the R8 are fine. I don't know why the R20's are so annoying by comparison.
I'm conflicted on if I should keep it in case of future updates that may make it usable or to get rid of the thing now. I can't recommend this to anyone and I actually don't know if I feel it is right to even sell it to anyone. No punch in/out via markes or footswitch is terrible. I was also hoping for more ability to record midi (does not handle pitch/mod data at all) as this would have been a killer scratch pad or portable option to use before going into a DAW. it really makes no sense, I think it was just a cash grab gimmick. I went to a tascam dp-008ex instead. battery powered, punch in/out via button or footswitch, etc. Hopefully Tascam can pick up the slack and release something similar to the R20/R12 but with the features we all need. SMH Zoom this was a waste of time and money.
Yeah, I don't know if the punch I/O is going to show up in a firmware update or not. When you place a marker there is clearly enough space for them to drop in a REC Start and REC Stop option in the marker menu.
But for sure, if you heavily rely on punch I/O and expressive MIDI controllers, it's not going to be a great option for you. But for guitar/bass/drum/vocal centric bands, I think it can work effectively depending on that set-up. It's definitely not for everyone, though.
@@GazRendar Agreed on the Punch options. I think they could do it if they wanted although I have a gut feeling there may be somethig related to latency of the theoretical punch that is stopping them. I disagree on the analogue instrument use though. Although it can be fun and even good practice to try to nail a performance in one take.... It becomes extremely annoying if you are trying to get something done quickly and effeciently where you need to make a quick fix and move on. There may be one little mistake that ruins an otherwise amazing take. It may not even be the musicians fault, It may be envirnmental such as : Car horn/Police sirens, dog barking, someone entering the room on accident, kids, etc, etc ,etc. The people using this device aren't gaurenteed a 100% sterile envirnment to record in. So when murphey's law strikes we need an option to punch in and fix that one little mishap.
My recording needs span from Synths, Drum Machines, Lead/Bass Guitars, Drums, and occasionally vocals with a small band (The band thing is in a extreme minimalist / spur of the moment situation). Sometimes there is only an oportunity for ONE full recording. Sometimes I have very limited access to certain instruments I don't have at home such as a Drum set and need to record a live drum track quickly. In those cases I need to quickly record and go. If there is a small mistake made during the pass it is possible to fix it later or quickly at the time after the event via a clean punch in/out if it were available. Other times if I grab the R20 to go record someone at their place quickly for something I'm doing, I would eat up a ton of time trying to get the ultimate perfect pass where it could have been punched and done without 100 passes and I could be on my way back home to load it up to Pro Tools. Time is very precious these days, I've sat through a ton of paid sessions having to punch people in and out and do countless passes for hours. These days I want to move quickly and effeciantly as possible with my "hobby" projects. I'm not a fan of the finger edit and drop in method btw, a preciscely set punch is far better to me.
If Zoom wants to sell it as a Musician accuracy and effenciency trainer they should label it as such. Meawhile if I want to practice that style of recording I can just ban myself from the Punch feature on other recorders. Either way, great coverage of the R20 I have been checking in every so often I believe since you started. Zoom should pay you a hefty fee for the good coverage and chance you gave the R20/R12.
P.S. I have a solution for the terrible combo jack and missing combo jack situation. I was going to do a video on it a while back but again I don't even want to recommend it to any potential new viewers. Here you have an Audience of current owners so it is probably better said here. I'll make a new comment on it in a few min.
Oh wow! just recorded my first song with it, could not get tones I liked, I didnt have it plugged in all the way ! I thought it would break
Yeah, it's not that intuitive the first time you use it. You really need to push down hard to get a 1/4" plug in there.
Can I pair this recorder with an actual DAW? Am looking at inexpensive gear to bedroom record my music
Yes. I've only tried it with Windows, but you can get it to work with a DAW. You'll have to download drivers from the Zoom website. Depending on your settings, you should be able to get the R20 to work either as an interface to record into the DAW, or as a control board so you can use the physical faders for your mixes.
@@GazRendar Thank you for your quick reply. 'Nother question: If I record on the SD card w/o the computer, can I "drop" those tracks into my DAW (Ableton) for any further editing?
Yes, and I think that is an ideal use for the R20. While the R20 can mix down and master an entire 16-track song into a single, finished, stereo mix without a computer whatsoever...it's not great at it. However, I think the R20 is best when you use it to record, maybe do some light editing of your tracks with the touchscreen, but then finish final edits and mastering with a DAW.
So if you record your tracks on the R20 (without a computer), all you have to do is take the SD card out, pop it into your computer, and you'll be able to go through the PROJECT folder, find your project, open it, and you'll see your individual .WAV files for each track. You can easily import them into your DAW of choice and continue to work on your song or master it with the DAW software.
@@GazRendar Thank you, I'll definitely purchase this ASAP once I get the money. Thank you so much for your quick replies, appreciate it 🙏🏼
I like to think of my R20 as an old fashioned 16 track analog recorder. Most of the time I just use the analog outs and send the signal to Audacity for 2 track mixdown to mp3, omitting all the digital export process. I know I'm losing quality going through an extra AD DA conversion, but it is fast and convenient and sounds fine to me for all but the most critical recordings.@@GazRendar
Is the R20 class complaint to use it as an audio interface for iOS GarageBand und now Logic Pro?
The old R 24 is not class complaint
class complaint means that you don’t need external drivers ( for people who don’t know what class complaint is☝️😉)
I haven't tried it with a mac, because I haven't had a mac in years, but I don't think you need drivers for it. But I know it does work as an audio interface for Garageband for both an iPhone and iPad if you have the right adapters. With windows 10 or 11 you need to download the drivers from the Zoom website to get it to work with a DAW.
They need to pay you
Hellou! Tascam DP-32 or Zoom R20???
That really depends on your budget and what your specific needs are. The DP32 is mostly a 16-track in disguise, since tracks 9-16 of the tracks have to be either mono or stereo. So they are both kind of equal there. They both offer on-board effects, although the R20's effects can be changed and updated via Guitar Lab software. They both record at 24-bit / 44.1kHz, but the DP32 will also record at 24-bit/48kHz. However, I think the Tascam is limited to SD cards only as big as 32GB whereas you can use up to a 1TB SD card in the R20. The DP32 has a few more knobs and physical controls. And the DP32 is usually about $200 more than the R20, so that's significant.
I think the biggest difference is how do you want to interact with the multitracker and how much track editing do you want to do? If you want to do a lot of splicing, cutting, copying and pasting directly on the multitracker, the R20 is better. If you value more physical knobs for EQ and panning controls, and need 48kHz sample rates, and don't mind spending $200 more for a device with a bigger footprint on your desk, the DP32 will be better for you.
@@GazRendar Thanks friends 💪👏👌
Hello, I have a device of this model, but it stops recording after 45 minutes. Does anyone know what the problem is?
The R20 maxes out at 1350 bars (measures). It stops recording at that point. If you want to hit REC and have it record longer, change the bpm to 40. That will make the bars longer and give you around 2 hours of straight recording time.
Thank you very much for the advice, you really helped me a lot. Can I ask which part of the settings I should do this from? @@GazRendar
The easiest way is to just touch the timing section at the top with the bpm and measure count. You can turn down the bpm's there. Here is a video about all things to consider when adjusting the tempo:
ua-cam.com/video/BD5LXVWbdqU/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar thank you 🙏🙏
I just ordered the R12 and learned he doesn't have punch in recording I'm sending it back how ridiculous
What is the mic in input 8?
It's a couple of parts that I bought for $20 total to make my own sorta "built-in" condenser mic for the R20 and R12. The details are here:
ua-cam.com/video/yKQ6plHUvMk/v-deo.html
awesome! thanks !@@GazRendar
THAT'S the most annoying thing about this device?
I can give you a list of other things I find WAY more annoying.
1. No punch I/O (that's definitely #1)
2. Moving tracks down is awful. Accidentally dropping a track over into another recorded track, then that one disappears, that's pretty F'IN annoying.
3. This one should be #1 maybe,... recording onto track 1 then moving it to another track makes it fall off the click. And every other track that's moved does the same. That is a HUGE design flaw and that's PRETTY F'IN ANNOYING.
4. Tracks moving around when you're just trying to get to a certain point in the track because the touch screen isn't that good, that's pretty F'IN annoying.
5. Trying to line tracks up because the useless device knocks them off the click when moving them is pretty F'IN annoying. The touch screen does not make this easy at all.
6. Ports in the back of the device instead of on top,...
7. Only two ¼" inputs? REALLY?
8. Cutting and splicing is not easy by any measure with this touch screen. Good luck.
9. No FADE IN/OUT anywhere along the tracks? That is a deal breaker for me. Each track should have a master volume on screen that can be markered as many times as needed to raise/lower/cut sections as needed. This is something that has been used with digital recording since the beginning of digital recording programs. I called ZOOM* and suggested that. ,
*Their tech support is THE WORST. AFTER CALLING about 20X, then giving up, I called the next day and FINALLY got through on the 3rd try, (they never called back even though I left multiple messages).
The tech that helped me was useless. I was calling to figure out this "moving tracks falling off the click" anomaly.
At this point, I got the thing replaced and I'm trying the new one right now. If this does the same thing, I'm tossing it back in the box and returning them both and buying a TASCAM. I've been using TASCAM since the 90s. Tried and true. Should have just gotten a TASCAM in the first place...
Addendum
10. When sliding a track left or right it's nearly impossible to line it up perfectly. The damn track info disappears every time you move it, it lags, then comes back after you move it. Good luck lining up invisible tracks.
11. This POS LAGS like CRAZY. It's surely not overloaded. I just got the thing. All the tracks are empty save for the drum samples I'm dropping in, and it's lagging out like like DBD during a storm.
12. I bought a nice TASCAM.
Hi,what is in input 8?
I made a "built-in" condenser mic for $20. Check out the details here:
ua-cam.com/video/yKQ6plHUvMk/v-deo.html
@@GazRendar Great! I want Building to 😀
Can you explain to me how to play a song excerpt in an endless loop, for example to practice a solo on it?
I set markers but no idea how to make the endless loop. I didn't find anything in the manual.
Well, you can't. At least in v3.3 of the firmware you cannot. I'd like to think Zoom can easily fix that in a hypothetical v4.0, but it doesn't exist right now.
Your two options are:
1) Set markers at the start point and end point. When it's done playing, you have to hit stop, and then use STOP and STOP + FWD to manually move back and forth between the markers. Here's a video about the stuff you can do with the markers: ua-cam.com/video/UpKxt5DFidY/v-deo.html
2) You might want to copy the Project for this and work with the copied version. Say you want to work on guitar solos over a bridge part of your song. Delete away the verses and choruses so you just have the bridge part. Now touch the audio region for whatever track (say for rhythm guitar) ....then grab the white tab at the end of the region and just keep dragging it out. It will do a copy and paste of that region over and over again. Then drag out the bass guitar track and the drum track, etc. Now when you hit play it will "loop" that bridge part over and over again...but it's really just playing those bridge parts over and over so you can workshop your guitar solo over that. It's not a great work around, but if I need to work out a lot of stuff, it's what I do. If i'm close to what I want for my guitar solo, then I simply use option #1 above.
Let's hope Zoom just gives us a Marker A to Marker B loop setting in the Marker menu in an upcoming firmware update...
How does one get 16 seperate tracks from 8 faders?
The physical faders control one of two tracks. The first fader controls either 1 or 9. The second fader either 2 or 10 and so on. While in the fader view screen there is a little icon on top that let's you toggle the physical faders between 1-8 or 9-16. So you do have to touch the touchscreen to flip back and forth. However, you can also use the touchscreen to move the virtual faders for all 16 tracks.
You should write books, not comments
@@serg3123 I sometimes do, just not about synths or guitars or music recording gear. So for those music related topics, I'll probably keep them confined to comments...
i bought one a year back used it for a month then returned it....
Yeah, I can see that. For some users it's just not going to deliver what you want. For others it can work well, especially if you can get it on sale.
@@GazRendar the cheap build quality killed it for me …
I hear ya. The plastic housing is much cheaper compared to the harder plastic housing of the old R8, that's for sure.
Why the hell would you need a built in mic? I don’t get it. What other interface offers a built in mic? 450 for an interface that gives you 8 mic preamps and channels is everything you need to record a band. If you want a built in mic, you don’t need an interface. Use your damn phone for quick ideas.
I get that, and I do use my phone. But when I had built in mics with my R8, I did use them on occasion, mostly when I had a new riff going on an acoustic guitar that I wanted to capture. But other people REALLY like the built-in mics on certain recording units. Like they just put it down in the middle of the room, hit record, and then jam with their band. There is an attractive simplicity in that. So I get it. Sure, it would be nice if there was a built-in mic, but I don't think it's a deal breaker for the unit.
Use a sub mixer and move the tracks around.
That's totally a valid option. Having a DI box or two always helps as well. I was just trying to bring up my issues with the R20 from the perspective of users who only have the R20 and don't want to buy other equipment, seeing as the R20 is mostly a budget purchase to begin with.
You can pre EQ The output.
I have most of the Zoom models including this one and when I (as you do) foresee a problem solutions usually pop into my head.
It's useless junk without punch in/out...... it's a loop editor at best
I respect that opinion and have no problem with it. But I've been able to make multitrack compositions on it that I've been happy with even without the true punch I/O capabilities. So I'm not going to go so far as to call it junk, but I know for anyone who heavily uses punch I/O features, it's likely going to be a learning curve and/or a frustrating experience for them. And as a loop editor the R20 is not really good at that because it doesn't automatically loop from the end of an audio region to the beginning. You have to hit stop and manually move the timeline marker to loop anything over and over to tinker with it.
I would have preferred if they had it in but honestly the touch screen makes it so you don't really need it. Dead easy to record over a deleted bit and splice it in
It has no Loop. Mine went back. Not for Dance musicians. Think about it! A DAW WITH NO LOOP FUNCTION 😮
It doesn't have a good traditional, auto-loop between markers A and B. You can chop up a section pretty quickly with the touchscreen and then tap and drag it out to loop something over and over again, but that obviously stretches out along the time line and then you have to go back and delete those regions when you are done workshopping things within the loop. I mostly just set markers A and B and manually flip back and forth with the transport buttons to work out a guitar or bass part. But yeah, I don't fault anyone for hating the R20 because it doesn't work for their specifics needs. It's definitely not a good budget recorder for everyone, only a subset of people.
lol 😂 whoever designed this is really wanting to save money. Combo jack x2 rest is XLR good luck buying extra Di Boxes haha 😅
This device is a USELESS POS. Can someone PLEASE explain to me why every time I record a track on 1 then click and drag it to 2 or 3 or ANY OTHER TRACK, it's no longer in time with the click or drum tracks? I just got a perfect bass take on the first shot, moved it to 5 to layer it and it's MAGICALLY not synching up, even though the track started recording at 0, and I can't move it any more to the left. This thing is a USELESS PIECE OF SHIT. I'm about to SMASH it to BITS I'm so frustrated with it. (At least I'd get some sweet parts for trash bashing) That's about all this thing is useful for.