Sadly the industry has become plagued with marketing BS and companies gouging money out of people. It refreshing and lovely to here someone speak facts and practicality. Thank You.
You are so right, I see so much crap been advertised as better then the simple cheaper and more reliable items I use for 40 years. A good example is the rope in place of wire rope, I am still using my 8000 lb cable and it never ever broke. Yet so many guys have to replace their rope on the winch and even take a spare. lol All this BS is just grabbing the money from the young and foolish that no longer listen to their elders.
@@breadcrums7853 ...you're using wire cable ? I was wondering about the rope being better than wire. doesn't make sense to me. ( i.e...I think I would rather wire). I've seen tests done with a bulldozer testing wire cables with a lot of maniquins strategically placed, bags and whatnot lain over the cable and they didn't seem to be much help....to the maniquins. (don't know if I spelt that right). Would that winch dampener do the same job with a wire cable ?
People have also been killed by steel shackles and cables that snap while synthetic is much safer... When off-roading the extra safety is definitely a plus considering there are often situations that are far less than ideal for recovery and everything can't be done perfectly.... Also rope on a winch has many benefits mostly that you're not going to get a bird's nest and you don't need to keep tension on the line so you can do a lot more with snatch blocks etc much easier and it's much lighter
a rope like that has a LOT of uses... i'm cynical of anyone who says that. I wouldn't hang my life on it more than a moment, but it's good for a ton (literally) of other things.
I am not a car guy. I am a sailor. I use synthetic line in a whole other manner, but am very familiar with engineering of high loads with synthetic and metal rigging components and I must say I agree with everything you just said. I will add tho, you did not mention side load issues of metal shackles that can break them at lower loads than rated breaking loads. Synthetic soft shackles won’t have that problem. Cheers!
bob roger metal shackles aren’t made to be pulled in another manner than one direction. Soft shackles are your fix. Sailor here as well and soft shackles are awesome for sailing applications.
@@TheCls63 if you look at the rigging charts for a shackle (any good brand will have them), they will show the maximum load capacity for a straight pull, and also how much it derates as your leg angle increases, or you get into side pulls. For instance, picture a shackle mounted to a bumper, with the pin through a thick metal plate and the bow hanging free. If you put a strap on and pull straight, 90 degrees to the bumper, like pulling it out of a muddy rut, you have the maximum strength as stamped on the shackle But if it has slid off the side of a hill, and now you are pulling from the side, instead of pulling straight on the pin, you are now trying to twist the pin, and only loading one side of the bow. Now you lose most of the rated capacity because you are side loading it.
Jesus. This guy let's more knowledge go as an aside to his core point (planning winching rig around weak links, etc.) than most youtubers put in their whole videos.
Your videos are simple straightforward and full of information. On behalf of me and my friends who are relatively new to off-roading we've learnt heaps from you and would like to thank you very much. We look forward to seeing your new videos every time.
This is perhaps one of the best teachers you'll ever hear or see on UA-cam. If he could teach common sense to knuckleheads there would be a new religion. GREAT presentation.
You have to be the best presenter of products and information with a great way of projecting your voice. I will be looking for more of your presentations. Regards IGGIE.
I am searching You tube for days to find something’ like this but everybody is just trying the sell the damn soft shackles.The reason this is such a great video is he is not trying to sell us a thing just an honest review and demo. Thanks
I like to keep a couple extra soft shackles in my truck’s everyday recovery kit, because in the winter time (I’m in the US) when we get snow and the idiots who don’t know how to drive get stuck and block my route I need to move them and there is often no good recovery point and if there is you’re usually not going to be able to get a bow/ D-Ring shackle in it. So a soft shackle with a wear sleeve makes more recoveries possible.
@@cosmokenney I just bought some cheapies with wear sleeves and an extra one per shackle smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MDZ8PFN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Wear sleeves, have you tried; a) electrical Empire Sleeving, b) to sew your own, or tried to just use c.1) plain heat shrink or c.2) electrical Nitto tape ?
I've never used a soft shackle in person, on a video they look like if you lose tension in the line they could come undone - that the knot could pop out as easy as it pops in. Is that not a concern?
@@alkaholic4848 nah they don’t come undone that easy. There is enough friction in the way they loop the Knot/ball through the shackle itself that it’ll hold even with no tension on it. You can snug up the “hole” around the base of the ball when you put it through. Also the diameter of the hole is not much bigger than the knot. But yes there is a chance it could come undone with no tension on it, but that would probably come down to user error and not having the knot all the way through the hole. The Synthetic line used to make them is a good bit stiffer than it looks in pictures and videos, very flexible but not exactly a limp noodle. I have never seen one come undone without human aide.
If it is all you had, one would need to apply a 'stress concentration' safety factor to it, to me, 2:1 seems reasonable, also if the setup was stressed to the limit of the wench, I would very carefully inspect the soft shackle for any fiber damage.
Great advice. Very well explained. Soft shackles are not a replacement for bow shackles in all situations. Most other 4WD UA-camrs rave about soft shackles being superior to bow shackles in all situations. You and engineer John Cadogan are the only UA-camrs I've seen that are aware of the limits of soft shackles.
When using an “equalizer strap”, as you called it, make sure you don’t create a short triangle bridle. If you hook a short chain between your hooks, then pull from that, you create huge forces pulling the hooks together. If it’s straight across, the initial force is near infinite. There used to be a lot of old trucks with two tow hooks bent toward each other. It bends the frame, if it doesn’t snap your chain. Yours is great, at about 6 feet plus each leg, that’s plenty. I probably wouldn’t use a tree saver for that, or you might be too short.
Outstanding video! I am an abseiler/rigger and sailor. I use soft shackles on my boat all the time and found this chat very interesting and informative. 10/10!
Great video mate way to much fluff getting around at the moment with people pushing them soft shackles. Bow shackles been used safely by responsible people for decades!
I went in thinking your video would be the same old same old. Damn! Was I wrong, you covered the why and why not. Along with the when and when to. Totally on the mark. All the positive feedback is well deserved. Keep them coming.
Best thing I ever figured out for bow shackles was when I was a snowmaker towing heavy snowguns through deep snow with snowmachines, if you drop the pin it's gone and your bow shackle is a paperweight. So, use that little hole on the pin to place a small loop of paracord with a knot that you can hold in your teeth or clip to a carabiner on your belt while you hook up everything else (a.k.a. when you wish you had a 3rd arm). The other thing to point out is that the pin should be loosened half to full turn from fully tight or you will never get it unthreaded without pliers after you put tension on it (the actual reason for the hole in the pin handle?). Great video and I really enjoyed your mathematical comparison of the components of the system. I hadn't realized that in a properly rigged recovery system that the winch is the weak point but will overload as a safety measure!
Always have equipment with rating stamps, DO NOT ever compromise safety, EVER. Anything that is tagged and the date has passed it's used by, it needs to be replaced ASAP, do not become complacent with this. What you are also talking about with the Shackles and Snatch Straps etc too is what Riggers and Crane drivers know about slings, load bearing, chains, loading factors and weight distribution and angles involved etc. Do not ever confuse S.W.L. and Breaking Strain as they are two different animals. Nice video, Cheers :-)
What a good, clear authentic presenter you are. The explanations are easily understood, including the application of maths to calculate loads. I'm now looking for that angle measuring app!
you pretty much nailed it. a week ago I had to pull a broken SXS back a few feet on flat ground so it could get recovered by a bigger truck. I have a 9500lb winch and a 34k rated strap.so normally you are counting on the strap or cable breaking before the shackle right. ok so I put my 3/4 inch shackle through the recovery point which was like a 3/8" thick wire loop that was welded to the chassis. I paused for a second and told myself that if I was to really have to yank on it, the recovery point would snap and it would send my 5lb shackle flying towards me. so yeah in my opinion the recovery points is a very important thing to consider and I don't think they are all rated for crap. maybe some are only rated for a flat tow or something. either way thanks for the video
Good video! No time to read all the comments but in case no one has already mentioned it, remember to never sideload your bow (D) shackle! The 23t MBS will be much less if they do.
Great video well done very informative Like the soft shackles but good to see you explaining the positives of the old shackle and there not bothered by sharp edges which could effect the soft shackle rendering it useless if care is not taken Cheers
i highly agree with throwing away cut or damaged recovery straps. 2004 my dad was killed by one of these straps snaping sending a shackle into the back of his head.
If someone has not mentioned it yet, as are there 600 posts don’t forget when winching to put your hood up when you are using a bow shackle to an anchor point if you can. It will keep your windshield from breaking if you have a strap failure.
That was very thorough and informative Michael. The only thing I'd add to your explanation is to cover unexpected failure. "Rated" does not mean that every unit is tested to breaking point - like checking matches by lighting them before putting them in the matchbox. A sample of the shackles, ropes, straps etc. is taken that is representative of the a production lot - if the sample satisfies criteria (breaking strain, bending - whatever the criteria is), the the lot is deemed as being OK. That still leaves room for a faulty shackle, rope or strap to be released into the market and that means it could be that the big steel shackle could fail at a lower force rather than the weaker winch, rope etc.. This is usually when someone gets hurt - when the thing you least expect to break, breaks. From a safety point of view, just assume something will break and great lump of metal will be launched at great speed - and act accordingly.
@Seek Adventure Great video as always. Just one point on the snatch block use, while it does double the strength of the rope technically to 16t, it will always snap at the centre of the pulley wheel at a pulling force of only 8t. This is due to the rope being pulled in both directions at once with the load (pulling the vehicle & the winch pulling) and creates the highest strain point right in the centre of that pulley as the breaking point is only 8t on the rope in a single run - and that is all there is on the pulley. Unfortunately it is not fully understood by 99.9% of people. A snatch block is really good for under-powered winches and gives you a 2:1 Mechanical Advantage. Keep up the great work, always enjoy the content.
You're wrong about the force being doubled. It's no more likely to break at the pulley than anywhere else. I had to do some research to confirm this because intuitively what you say makes sense, but the doubled force supported by the pulley is transmitted to the wheel of the pulley by the side of the rope in compression, the tension in the rope stays equal throughout the entire rope in a pulley system.
By far the clearest and most comprehensive video I’ve seen so far (& I’ve have been training 4x4 recovery for 30 years!) Looking forward to viewing more of your videos, from here in Wales! 🏴
Great vid! Been trying to explain to softshackle experts that they are not indeed stronger than steel. Although I do have some softies rated to 24t MBS. 23:00 Its very likely that that soft shackle would fail being used on that steel snatch block. There isnt a big enough radius and the corners are too sharp. Once you got up to around 4 - 5 tonnes of pressure, maybe less, it would be cut like a knife Would have been good to see the soft shackle paired with one of the new snatch rings which are far safer than the steel snatch block. Although I 100% agree best practice on a steel snatch block is a steel bow shackle. Really enjoying your videos!
Very nicely explained. Bags of good advice. I have two offroad-capable motorcycle/sidecar combos. One has an electric winch. The other has a hand winch. Lots of cable, a snatch strap and a soft shackle.
I always love watching the mechanics of recovery and loved the science of it too. Thanks Michael for another terrific, informative and interesting video. Cheers.
i know a LOT about shackles and recovery, but i also was very entertained and gained some good information. this was all spot on info and presented very well !
The voice of reason. Some people just dont have common since anymore. Great job explaining the rigging. Another point is the soft shackle on you pulley just created a weak point where the soft shackle can be cut. I know said that you you prefer the bow shackle
Great video, you answered everything for everyone! I performed recoveries of 70 (US) ton tanks here in the states, and this brought back memories of training. :D Long time lurker, first-time commenter, keep up the good work.
Good info. Another thing worth mentioning is side loading bow shackles (don't do it) however if you're using a bridal strap (tree strap) you can be in a situation where the shackle is slightly side loaded. This cuts down the load rating of the shackle. Up to 50% with a 90° sideload. Depending on the manufacturer of the shackle they'll have a chart with this info. Here's a chart for better explanation from one manufacturer: www.lift-it.com/database/wysiwyg/images/212c.jpg
You my friend have a natural gift for imparting valuable knowledge while keeping the subject interesting, you have a big future ahead of you in the 4wd/ camping industry I hope you start making videos again. 👍
Love your teaching method by adding the math and physics in situations. I did not know that the farther tree would be a better choice when you have a weaker winch it seems like something to always keep in mind. Thanks.
great teaching about the safety, people can see a rope snap on Matts off road recovery on the wrecker games. when the go its like a whip and it broke part of the truck , thank you for this ,stay safe and well
Amen. Recovery is rigging performed horizontally. Its not the wing of the space shuttle, use your noggin. Avoid harbor freight, seek out Crosby hardware, ask the old timers what works.
This is an EXCELLENT video! I'm researching a winch purchase and recovery gear, and I appreciate your approach and explanation. Thank you for such an informative and substantial covering of this topic!
Thanks for the common sense revelations. Very helpful. I'm in America and your presentation is so well done. I learned a lot. Some of your ideas reenforced what I know works, and I also learned some techniques I hadn't learned before, Thanks again.
excellent video. One small addition to your points about soft shackles, and ropes for that matter. Another thing you have to consider is bend radios. bends tighter than what is recommended for the diameter of the particular rope/soft shackle will also reduce the working load and increase the potential for damage. Again, nice video.
Agree, I would be very nervous using a soft shackle on something like the snatchblock with sharp or square edges and doubt the rating would stand up. Also we have found the winch blankets are useless on synthetic rope due to the construction of the rope. When a synthetic rope goes it will fly in a straight line straight through the blanket. Only use is as a warning sign if crossing a track with the cable
The fact that the bow shackle could potentially kill a person if/when it breaks is the only reason a guy needs to use soft shackles whenever possible. No amount of durability or strength is worth risking someone's life.
Failure of a soft shackle due to wear can also have fatal consequences. You should consider what you’re using each time you rig - not just default to one or the other.
I've got the Miolle soft shackles, Used these to yank a loaded 24' Uhaul out of some ice and snow, no issues. I also used them on a sedan with no visible tow point, and they frayed slightly on the sharp metal of the frame. This will happen with ANY soft shackle, just be careful. They actually pulled the Uhaul after this happened though, so their rating is accurate and they're tough as nails. Ordering another pair today.
The point isnt designed for soft shackles. They weren't around when designing. Also rounded corners lowers the internal area of it greatly reducing the amount the point can take
@@MrAfwarren Hi, Thanks. I think when I wrote " rounded edges" , I was meaning just give it a chamfer ( carpenter speak) , basically take the sharpish edge off it. A 2mm chamfer wouldn't compromise it's structural integrity ( and that would only need doing at the front /pull part). :)
Unfortunately it actually would every little bit matters with those types of things. Also increasedthe cost of tooling would make the product even more expensive
Not at all! To me this is more structured and informative and clearly comes from someone who has experience and uses his brain to put things in order (Nothing against Ronny Dahls videos). This is clearly not stolen or copied - just the same topic worked on by a great guy.
nothing like ronnys videos. same good info. Just a bit more tech info vs the more basic info ronny had or just presented in a different way. We all learn or care to listen to different levels of information.
Allow me to quote one of my favourite instructions during a driving course when Towing a stuck vehicle "this is the moment of truth". basically the suicidal mission starts with the wrong procedure and wrong tools at hand. Well explained and yes I agree 1000% on the warning about attaching two D shackles to extend the rope, it's a NO NO NO NO NO I have witnessed fatal incidents doing all the wrong things.
Sadly the industry has become plagued with marketing BS and companies gouging money out of people. It refreshing and lovely to here someone speak facts and practicality. Thank You.
You are so right, I see so much crap been advertised as better then the simple cheaper and more reliable items I use for 40 years. A good example is the rope in place of wire rope, I am still using my 8000 lb cable and it never ever broke. Yet so many guys have to replace their rope on the winch and even take a spare. lol All this BS is just grabbing the money from the young and foolish that no longer listen to their elders.
@@breadcrums7853 ...you're using wire cable ? I was wondering about the rope being better than wire. doesn't make sense to me. ( i.e...I think I would rather wire). I've seen tests done with a bulldozer testing wire cables with a lot of maniquins strategically placed, bags and whatnot lain over the cable and they didn't seem to be much help....to the maniquins. (don't know if I spelt that right). Would that winch dampener do the same job with a wire cable ?
@@breadcrums7853 the wire rope kinks and corrodes proper rigging and care goes a long way with both rope and cable
People have also been killed by steel shackles and cables that snap while synthetic is much safer... When off-roading the extra safety is definitely a plus considering there are often situations that are far less than ideal for recovery and everything can't be done perfectly.... Also rope on a winch has many benefits mostly that you're not going to get a bird's nest and you don't need to keep tension on the line so you can do a lot more with snatch blocks etc much easier and it's much lighter
Also sideloading shackles can be bad which is often hard to avoid when off-roading
Definatley the smartest 4X4 UA-camr by far! Good work on the explanations mate!
Is he the only one? never see another soul in his videos lol
Definatley
"It's rated to go into the bin!". Love it. Well spoken.
a rope like that has a LOT of uses... i'm cynical of anyone who says that. I wouldn't hang my life on it more than a moment, but it's good for a ton (literally) of other things.
Mate you're heaps smarter than those dudes who cut the sleeves off their shirts. Love your down to earth explanations. Cheers.
Those 2 with their sleeves cut off are a pair of clowns!!
@@ellaausic7388 who are they? I’m new to off-roading therefore I want to know who to listen to, thanks.
Excellent tutorial. You're a born teacher, you know your subject and know how to present it. Love your emphasis on safety.
I am not a car guy. I am a sailor. I use synthetic line in a whole other manner, but am very familiar with engineering of high loads with synthetic and metal rigging components and I must say I agree with everything you just said. I will add tho, you did not mention side load issues of metal shackles that can break them at lower loads than rated breaking loads. Synthetic soft shackles won’t have that problem. Cheers!
what do you mean by side load?
@@TheCls63 I believe what he is referring to is if you are pulling on the shackle from an angle or from one side rather than pulling from straight on
bob roger metal shackles aren’t made to be pulled in another manner than one direction. Soft shackles are your fix. Sailor here as well and soft shackles are awesome for sailing applications.
@@TheCls63 if you look at the rigging charts for a shackle (any good brand will have them), they will show the maximum load capacity for a straight pull, and also how much it derates as your leg angle increases, or you get into side pulls.
For instance, picture a shackle mounted to a bumper, with the pin through a thick metal plate and the bow hanging free.
If you put a strap on and pull straight, 90 degrees to the bumper, like pulling it out of a muddy rut, you have the maximum strength as stamped on the shackle
But if it has slid off the side of a hill, and now you are pulling from the side, instead of pulling straight on the pin, you are now trying to twist the pin, and only loading one side of the bow.
Now you lose most of the rated capacity because you are side loading it.
Never double load the pin 👍🏻
Jesus. This guy let's more knowledge go as an aside to his core point (planning winching rig around weak links, etc.) than most youtubers put in their whole videos.
Your videos are simple straightforward and full of information. On behalf of me and my friends who are relatively new to off-roading we've learnt heaps from you and would like to thank you very much. We look forward to seeing your new videos every time.
Brilliant explanation. Passed onto my son who is new to 4 wheel driving
This is perhaps one of the best teachers you'll ever hear or see on UA-cam. If he could teach common sense to knuckleheads there would be a new religion. GREAT presentation.
You have to be the best presenter of products and information with a great way of projecting your voice. I will be looking for more of your presentations. Regards IGGIE.
This was virtually one of the best virtual videos talking about virtual situations with virtual equipment I've ever seen. :D ;)
jedironin380 lol
Virtually the best comment here.
Same
That's virtually what i thought too.
Ic Ic to get
Really well produced, complete and above all, correct. The on screen annotations should quieten even the most ardent disbelievers.
I am searching You tube for days to find something’ like this but everybody is just trying the sell the damn soft shackles.The reason this is such a great video is he is not trying to sell us a thing just an honest review and demo. Thanks
I like to keep a couple extra soft shackles in my truck’s everyday recovery kit, because in the winter time (I’m in the US) when we get snow and the idiots who don’t know how to drive get stuck and block my route I need to move them and there is often no good recovery point and if there is you’re usually not going to be able to get a bow/ D-Ring shackle in it. So a soft shackle with a wear sleeve makes more recoveries possible.
Drew w any idea where I can get a wear sleeve? I've looked on Amazon but couldn't find them - I don't think I was using the right search terms.
@@cosmokenney I just bought some cheapies with wear sleeves and an extra one per shackle smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MDZ8PFN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Wear sleeves, have you tried;
a) electrical Empire Sleeving,
b) to sew your own, or tried to just use
c.1) plain heat shrink or c.2) electrical Nitto tape ?
I've never used a soft shackle in person, on a video they look like if you lose tension in the line they could come undone - that the knot could pop out as easy as it pops in. Is that not a concern?
@@alkaholic4848 nah they don’t come undone that easy. There is enough friction in the way they loop the Knot/ball through the shackle itself that it’ll hold even with no tension on it. You can snug up the “hole” around the base of the ball when you put it through. Also the diameter of the hole is not much bigger than the knot. But yes there is a chance it could come undone with no tension on it, but that would probably come down to user error and not having the knot all the way through the hole. The Synthetic line used to make them is a good bit stiffer than it looks in pictures and videos, very flexible but not exactly a limp noodle. I have never seen one come undone without human aide.
Awesome vid! Not only because you explained best practices but because you explained why. Extremely helpful.
"It's no joke guys"
SMILES UNCONTROLLABLY
I thought that too. LOL
Lmao, homie held that smile the whole 27:09.
“It’s no joke guys someone could get seriously hurt or even die”
😁😁😁
Without a doubt the best explanation of using a winch and shackles and so forth that I have ever seen. Extremely complete explanation
there is no way i would be using a soft shackle on the sharp metal edges of that snatch block. great work keep it up
If it is all you had, one would need to apply a 'stress concentration' safety factor to it, to me, 2:1 seems reasonable, also if the setup was stressed to the limit of the wench, I would very carefully inspect the soft shackle for any fiber damage.
Great advice.
Very well explained.
Soft shackles are not a replacement for bow shackles in all situations.
Most other 4WD UA-camrs rave about soft shackles being superior to bow shackles in all situations.
You and engineer John Cadogan are the only UA-camrs I've seen that are aware of the limits of soft shackles.
Outstanding explanation! Can't tell you how many arguments stuck I've tried to drive it into stubborn heads about simple physics.
Good to see you paid attention to your maths teacher, another great video👍
This is BETTER than the Learning Channel.......THANKS BRO!!!!
Dropping mad science! I don't think I ever have any questions left at the end of your videos. ;)
When using an “equalizer strap”, as you called it, make sure you don’t create a short triangle bridle. If you hook a short chain between your hooks, then pull from that, you create huge forces pulling the hooks together. If it’s straight across, the initial force is near infinite. There used to be a lot of old trucks with two tow hooks bent toward each other. It bends the frame, if it doesn’t snap your chain.
Yours is great, at about 6 feet plus each leg, that’s plenty. I probably wouldn’t use a tree saver for that, or you might be too short.
That's the same reason you want to watch the angle off the tree, too wide and your sling starts lose strength
Outstanding video! I am an abseiler/rigger and sailor. I use soft shackles on my boat all the time and found this chat very interesting and informative. 10/10!
Great video mate way to much fluff getting around at the moment with people pushing them soft shackles. Bow shackles been used safely by responsible people for decades!
LSgemini * agreed. My steel shackles don’t care about sharp edges, uv light, mud, or hot exhaust pipes, it’ll be around long after I’m gone.
Bow shackles have also killed plenty of people
I went in thinking your video would be the same old same old. Damn! Was I wrong, you covered the why and why not. Along with the when and when to. Totally on the mark. All the positive feedback is well deserved. Keep them coming.
I think most of the danger is kneeling in sand with shorts on in Austraila.
You're right, they have the deadliest snakes and spiders in the world. Lions and Tigers, oh my, oh my!
Its alot worse at the 4wd nudist camp
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
"Sand will cover this place. Sand will cover you."
Even the SAND is tryin to kill you!
Best thing I ever figured out for bow shackles was when I was a snowmaker towing heavy snowguns through deep snow with snowmachines, if you drop the pin it's gone and your bow shackle is a paperweight. So, use that little hole on the pin to place a small loop of paracord with a knot that you can hold in your teeth or clip to a carabiner on your belt while you hook up everything else (a.k.a. when you wish you had a 3rd arm). The other thing to point out is that the pin should be loosened half to full turn from fully tight or you will never get it unthreaded without pliers after you put tension on it (the actual reason for the hole in the pin handle?). Great video and I really enjoyed your mathematical comparison of the components of the system. I hadn't realized that in a properly rigged recovery system that the winch is the weak point but will overload as a safety measure!
So good to hear real figures. Great job. Great channel.
Always have equipment with rating stamps, DO NOT ever compromise safety, EVER. Anything that is tagged and the date has passed it's used by, it needs to be replaced ASAP, do not become complacent with this.
What you are also talking about with the Shackles and Snatch Straps etc too is what Riggers and Crane drivers know about slings, load bearing, chains, loading factors and weight distribution and angles involved etc. Do not ever confuse S.W.L. and Breaking Strain as they are two different animals. Nice video, Cheers :-)
Keep in mind, recovery straps and rope need to be clean, if they are lodged with dirt it can damage them
This kid had a good personality enjoyed the videos!
Michael, only you can make such an utterly fascinating tutorial on bow, soft shackles and wench use!!
I really don't think he's going to show you the use of his wench in the tutorial!
Thank You Michael, hope you are doing well and still enjoying the outdoors.
Awesome instructional video. Thanks so such. Keep up the great work. Cheers. Jeff👍😀
What a good, clear authentic presenter you are. The explanations are easily understood, including the application of maths to calculate loads. I'm now looking for that angle measuring app!
Awesome informative video cobba! Been binge-watching your videos and rate the way you present stuff and yourself! Giving me more motivation!
That's a double rad...👍👍...One of the best tip tech talks on recovery I've seen...
To reduce wear & tear on soft shackles run them threw a piece of garden hose to protect it.
Awesome tip
Hey yeah, nice idea. I guess old bicycle inner tube would work too.
Cary Wood j
I really like the simplicity of your winch connection to the recovery gear. No hook, just straight to a shackle.
explained it very well Michael, some top advice, love the remote winch
you pretty much nailed it. a week ago I had to pull a broken SXS back a few feet on flat ground so it could get recovered by a bigger truck. I have a 9500lb winch and a 34k rated strap.so normally you are counting on the strap or cable breaking before the shackle right. ok so I put my 3/4 inch shackle through the recovery point which was like a 3/8" thick wire loop that was welded to the chassis. I paused for a second and told myself that if I was to really have to yank on it, the recovery point would snap and it would send my 5lb shackle flying towards me. so yeah in my opinion the recovery points is a very important thing to consider and I don't think they are all rated for crap. maybe some are only rated for a flat tow or something. either way thanks for the video
Best video on this subject I have ever seen...
Good video! No time to read all the comments but in case no one has already mentioned it, remember to never sideload your bow (D) shackle! The 23t MBS will be much less if they do.
mate your gonna be the next presenter for 4wd action if your not careful, keep up the good work.
An outstanding video, with clear explanations, visual aids, and rationales for each configuration. Very educational and well done. Cheers from Canada.
Great video well done very informative
Like the soft shackles but good to see you explaining the positives of the old shackle and there not bothered by sharp edges which could effect the soft shackle rendering it useless if care is not taken
Cheers
i highly agree with throwing away cut or damaged recovery straps. 2004 my dad was killed by one of these straps snaping sending a shackle into the back of his head.
What a super video. Very easily understood. Many Thanks Nick from UK
If someone has not mentioned it yet, as are there 600 posts
don’t forget when winching to put your hood up when you are using a bow shackle to an anchor point if you can.
It will keep your windshield from breaking if you have a strap failure.
One of your best videos yet, awesome work - thankyou.
That was very thorough and informative Michael. The only thing I'd add to your explanation is to cover unexpected failure. "Rated" does not mean that every unit is tested to breaking point - like checking matches by lighting them before putting them in the matchbox. A sample of the shackles, ropes, straps etc. is taken that is representative of the a production lot - if the sample satisfies criteria (breaking strain, bending - whatever the criteria is), the the lot is deemed as being OK. That still leaves room for a faulty shackle, rope or strap to be released into the market and that means it could be that the big steel shackle could fail at a lower force rather than the weaker winch, rope etc.. This is usually when someone gets hurt - when the thing you least expect to break, breaks. From a safety point of view, just assume something will break and great lump of metal will be launched at great speed - and act accordingly.
9:45
Matts Offroad Towing and Recvery: Yeah I'm gonna do that.
He uses like 20+ ton boat ropes and steel chains though, not these garbage flat straps.
@@DavidVoxDem he uses kinetic snatch ropes with a max breaking strength of 25,600 pounds.
Best-made, most informative video on recovery gear and techniques I've seen so far, and I learned a few things -- thank you.
@Seek Adventure
Great video as always. Just one point on the snatch block use, while it does double the strength of the rope technically to 16t, it will always snap at the centre of the pulley wheel at a pulling force of only 8t. This is due to the rope being pulled in both directions at once with the load (pulling the vehicle & the winch pulling) and creates the highest strain point right in the centre of that pulley as the breaking point is only 8t on the rope in a single run - and that is all there is on the pulley. Unfortunately it is not fully understood by 99.9% of people. A snatch block is really good for under-powered winches and gives you a 2:1 Mechanical Advantage.
Keep up the great work, always enjoy the content.
You're wrong about the force being doubled. It's no more likely to break at the pulley than anywhere else. I had to do some research to confirm this because intuitively what you say makes sense, but the doubled force supported by the pulley is transmitted to the wheel of the pulley by the side of the rope in compression, the tension in the rope stays equal throughout the entire rope in a pulley system.
By far the clearest and most comprehensive video I’ve seen so far (& I’ve have been training 4x4 recovery for 30 years!) Looking forward to viewing more of your videos, from here in Wales! 🏴
Great vid! Been trying to explain to softshackle experts that they are not indeed stronger than steel. Although I do have some softies rated to 24t MBS. 23:00 Its very likely that that soft shackle would fail being used on that steel snatch block. There isnt a big enough radius and the corners are too sharp. Once you got up to around 4 - 5 tonnes of pressure, maybe less, it would be cut like a knife Would have been good to see the soft shackle paired with one of the new snatch rings which are far safer than the steel snatch block. Although I 100% agree best practice on a steel snatch block is a steel bow shackle. Really enjoying your videos!
I agree , they need to increase the side radius on the snatch block
Very nicely explained. Bags of good advice. I have two offroad-capable motorcycle/sidecar combos. One has an electric winch. The other has a hand winch. Lots of cable, a snatch strap and a soft shackle.
I always love watching the mechanics of recovery and loved the science of it too. Thanks Michael for another terrific, informative and interesting video. Cheers.
I dont know anything about shackles, or recovery, but it was entertaining and informative.
i know a LOT about shackles and recovery, but i also was very entertained and gained some good information. this was all spot on info and presented very well !
Brilliantly done, clear concise explanation & examples. Your a master of the KISS principle. Good on ya! Subscribed.
The voice of reason. Some people just dont have common since anymore. Great job explaining the rigging. Another point is the soft shackle on you pulley just created a weak point where the soft shackle can be cut. I know said that you you prefer the bow shackle
Well done mate, Very instructive,
you can tell you've put a lot of effort and research on making the Video.
Great video, you answered everything for everyone! I performed recoveries of 70 (US) ton tanks here in the states, and this brought back memories of training. :D Long time lurker, first-time commenter, keep up the good work.
Well that's a good first Justin! Thanka for the comment mate 🙂
Good info. Another thing worth mentioning is side loading bow shackles (don't do it) however if you're using a bridal strap (tree strap) you can be in a situation where the shackle is slightly side loaded. This cuts down the load rating of the shackle. Up to 50% with a 90° sideload. Depending on the manufacturer of the shackle they'll have a chart with this info. Here's a chart for better explanation from one manufacturer:
www.lift-it.com/database/wysiwyg/images/212c.jpg
You my friend have a natural gift for imparting valuable knowledge while keeping the subject interesting, you have a big future ahead of you in the 4wd/ camping industry I hope you start making videos again. 👍
Absolute gold mate! Thank you
Love your teaching method by adding the math and physics in situations. I did not know that the farther tree would be a better choice when you have a weaker winch it seems like something to always keep in mind. Thanks.
That was great, one of the best I've seen.
great teaching about the safety, people can see a rope snap on Matts off road recovery on the wrecker games. when the go its like a whip and it broke part of the truck , thank you for this ,stay safe and well
The weakest point, the most unknown, the major point of failure... The tree, the anchore point!
The weakest point is always the operator. 🤔😁
I have learned more in this video than 23 years in the military. Outstanding young man... ^_^
Thanks for all the clever explanations and amazing presentations! Cheers mate :)
I usually don't like long videos but you presented this very well with good reasoning. Thank you.
In summary, Bow Shackle are cheaper, stronger and require some common sense recovery thought.
But there's no chance of a soft shackle be coming a projectile that kills your buddy through his windshield
Amen. Recovery is rigging performed horizontally. Its not the wing of the space shuttle, use your noggin. Avoid harbor freight, seek out Crosby hardware, ask the old timers what works.
This is an EXCELLENT video! I'm researching a winch purchase and recovery gear, and I appreciate your approach and explanation. Thank you for such an informative and substantial covering of this topic!
Yea Good Work Bud ! Clear and informative , Thanks for sharing. :)
This was a great refresher. Thank you for giving up your time to make this.
“Destruction Test”... 🤗 *click, boom, gone*
No, seriously mate, good vid!
Thanks for taking all the extra time to run through diff scenarios. It is VERY much appreciated.
"if it doesn't hurt you, it might kill you" 😂
Another cheerful enthusiastic chat, always a pleasure to look at even though I've had the same landy for nearly 40 years. Good one Seekie
My Mrs loves the Soft Shackles
Where ?
Giggidy
Not what she tells me...
Fast Farmer Yeah but she always tells a different story when it's her son
Full of useful information. Very well presented. As a bonus he always smiles while he talks! Fantastic mate!
10:55 Watch out mate, got a crab creepin up on ya 6. 🦀😳
When I hear an Aussie accent at the beginning of an Offroad educational video I know I’m about to learn some good stuff!
🇺🇸
“ARB don’t tell you what their rating is, breaking strain or SWL is..... but they do say it’s rated for 8000kg recovery “
FFS 🤦🏻♂️
I know right, I think it's all to do with liability, they don't want to say it what the recovery points MBS or SWL is to cover themselves I think 😂
Thanks for the common sense revelations. Very helpful. I'm in America and your presentation is so well done. I learned a lot. Some of your ideas reenforced what I know works, and I also learned some techniques I hadn't learned before, Thanks again.
You haven't doubled the strength of the rope, you have halved (ignoring friction) the strain.
Spot on 🙂 Halved the strain, so now it can take double the load
excellent video. One small addition to your points about soft shackles, and ropes for that matter. Another thing you have to consider is bend radios. bends tighter than what is recommended for the diameter of the particular rope/soft shackle will also reduce the working load and increase the potential for damage. Again, nice video.
Agree, I would be very nervous using a soft shackle on something like the snatchblock with sharp or square edges and doubt the rating would stand up. Also we have found the winch blankets are useless on synthetic rope due to the construction of the rope. When a synthetic rope goes it will fly in a straight line straight through the blanket. Only use is as a warning sign if crossing a track with the cable
The fact that the bow shackle could potentially kill a person if/when it breaks is the only reason a guy needs to use soft shackles whenever possible. No amount of durability or strength is worth risking someone's life.
Failure of a soft shackle due to wear can also have fatal consequences. You should consider what you’re using each time you rig - not just default to one or the other.
I've got the Miolle soft shackles, Used these to yank a loaded 24' Uhaul out of some ice and snow, no issues. I also used them on a sedan with no visible tow point, and they frayed slightly on the sharp metal of the frame. This will happen with ANY soft shackle, just be careful. They actually pulled the Uhaul after this happened though, so their rating is accurate and they're tough as nails. Ordering another pair today.
One would think that the red recovery point, would have rounded edges to protect the rope shackle. That's a dumb design fault ARB.
you might want to rethink that
@@MrAfwarren Okay, that "might " be a dumb design fault? Educate me.Don't just leave me hanging.
The point isnt designed for soft shackles. They weren't around when designing. Also rounded corners lowers the internal area of it greatly reducing the amount the point can take
@@MrAfwarren Hi, Thanks. I think when I wrote " rounded edges" , I was meaning just give it a chamfer ( carpenter speak) , basically take the sharpish edge off it. A 2mm chamfer wouldn't compromise it's structural integrity ( and that would only need doing at the front /pull part). :)
Unfortunately it actually would every little bit matters with those types of things. Also increasedthe cost of tooling would make the product even more expensive
Just wanted to say thanks. Has to be the best video on recovery issues that I've watched! Very well presented and easy to understand. Thanks
Stealing rohny Dahl’s videos
Not at all! To me this is more structured and informative and clearly comes from someone who has experience and uses his brain to put things in order (Nothing against Ronny Dahls videos). This is clearly not stolen or copied - just the same topic worked on by a great guy.
nothing like ronnys videos. same good info. Just a bit more tech info vs the more basic info ronny had or just presented in a different way. We all learn or care to listen to different levels of information.
Allow me to quote one of my favourite instructions during a driving course when Towing a stuck vehicle "this is the moment of truth". basically the suicidal mission starts with the wrong procedure and wrong tools at hand. Well explained and yes I agree 1000% on the warning about attaching two D shackles to extend the rope, it's a NO NO NO NO NO I have witnessed fatal incidents doing all the wrong things.
GREAT EXAMPLES!!
As a visual learner AND new to recovery, you helped me understand!
Thank you
I literally just was thinking about wanting to see a video comparing these two things today and here it is in my feed.