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I think the Mac does very well, considering it is so much smaller, silent and power-efficient. As for 3D, wait for upcoming updates. It may not reach Optix level, but certainly CUDA, which is more than fine for most people. Also the RTX is darn expensive and chews >300W
Davinci Resolve has really come a long way. I recall years back, nobody ever gave resolve a look for editing... it was all for colouring, but now, its editing speed even beats other softwares. And to even think that there is a free version. Thank you so much BlackMagic Design for putting this power at our hands
That the "editing speed" beats the competition is not quite accurate - export speed sure, timeline performance yes. But Davinci is still a bit clunky when it comes to the user interface and user experience, many small bugs and imbalanced mix of beginner-friendly features and insanely in depth options for specialists. I love the program, but I'd still edit in either Premiere or FCPX. I'd take Resolve over Avid though. Hate Avid.
I still favor Premiere but color grading in Resolve is second to none. The fusion is a mess in my opinion. After Effects is still my go to for graphics.
@@DaCarnival Not me. Premiere is slow and clunky and crashes all the time. Final Cut is waaaay better but I don't like how it creates and manages libraries and such. Resolve for me is the fastest . And it's completely free! How crazy is that.
Considering the Mac Studio is roughly 10x smaller in volume, way more quiet, uses way less power and is about the same price... to go toe-to-toe with the 3090 PC performance-wise (and even beat it handily in several tests) is VERY impressive from a technological standpoint. Wow, just wow!
Same price? We must be living in different planets then. This config is about $3000. Heck even a 3080 build would cost $2000 and will still be faster than the $5000 64 core studio mac.
A simple pcpartpicker check will be enough to check that a core i9 with 3090 and 64gb ram costs about $3400 (inflated prices). Unfortunately the mods are deleting my previous comments with any pcpartpicker link that proves my point.
@@srimasis Didn't you watch the video? They mentioned that you would need to spend extra for things the PC doesn't have; like the faster ethernet port and thunderbolt. Anyways... this is all fairly padantic to my overall point... which was that the Mac Studio is an impressive advancement in computing technology... Geeez, you can't make ANY kind of declarative statement in Internet comments without some comic book store guy chiming in with his "actually..." opinion LOL.
@@rizkan1996 You say for much better performance when it comes to video and photo editing, 1/10 the size, no sound, more refined streamline software, and better build quality.
I’m sure the pc could be built for much cheaper even with the price of GPU cards being inflated, Also this video card is coming upto two years of age, so should be refreshed pretty soon with the 4090, be exciting how it fairs against it. Max have done an excellent job testing these, it’s a shame Apple have blocked any upgradability on the studio though.
This silver apple box can cost up to $10k, so you could get something like A40 instead of 3090 if you need it for very specific workloads. Apple box do be kinda fast and small but it's also hella expensive and becomes e-waste some time in the future, while you can replace everything in your PC overtime and resell it as you go so the actual cost of a PC is way lower and it's also more relevant over time.
It is march native, everything is compiled for M1... That is not available for Intel, never, neither linux, nor (obviously) windows compile for native arch. You can compile everything for march native in linux, but no one does it. Also Apple did make hardware division as fast as in libdivide though it is still worse than GMP as part of gcc compiler.
@@kizu4209 I kinda disagree with the concept that any of this doesn’t become e waste eventually - it’s just about how fast the parts are. Even if they’re getting sold off, they’re still becoming obsolescent even if out of sight. To be clear, I hate apples stubborn refusal to make basic things upgradable but this argument doesn’t make sense to me. The parts are… going somewhere?
These days, you really don't have to go to another channel to learn all you need about the Mac Studio - this channel just churns out all the content, we need in such detail. Proud to be a subscriber.
Sure if you want to look for bias opinion. Yeah, I rather look at multiple channels and make my own conclusion. Everyone knows this channel is heavily Apple bias. HEAVILY.
Lol more like Bias, it’s a toss up between Renee Ritchie, IJustine and Max on who is the biggest apple shill. Max did a video defending the Apple Stand like it was PR. Look at other channels and there take on comparing the Mac studio to PC, not so clear bias as max here.
Great video guys. As a 3D artist, I hope Apple will eventually add some ray-tracing hardware into their Silicon. Without them the nVidia cards are untouchable no matter how good Apple and developers optimise their 3D code.
1 year ago they added raytracing api for Metal and now they increased its performance in Metal 3 that will come out in macOS 13. They are moving this way, and while i'm not sure about M2 Pro, but M3 most likely will have ray tracing accelerators. I know apple, they first make api, and when next cpu will come out, most apps will already be optimized for it with no additional code needed
@@catboy3471 it's a DESKTOP for gods sake, who cares how much juice the 3090 is sucking from the wall. Same goes for the m1 ultra it is used in a desktop environment which haa access to as much power as it needs. Consumers dont give a crap about effiiency.
@@catboy3471 get. it plugged, and M1 will be destroyed i have seen some testing video between M1 ultra and 3090 where you can find that M1 ultra is using 1/5 of power of GTX but also the performance is 1/5 of GTX when we compare raw GPU performance. so M1 is wasting the time as at the end of day the power drawn by both of them will be almost same but the performance will be much greater in GTX second now GTX 3090 price on some countries has fallen drastically, you can build a new pc with 2*rtx 3090 with price tag around 5k dollar so if you compare it with dollar to dollar, there is now way that M1 ultra has any chance against 3090. apple marketing team bluff so much
I'm a video editor who went away from Mac about 8 years ago but I'm seriously considering making the switch back after seeing all these tests. Thanks for all your hard work!
Make sure to research whether all your tools would work before going from Windows/Intel based Mac to Apple Silicon Mac. It's true that Apple Silicon is great in most of the cases displayed above, but there are way too many programs that either don't work at all, or have limited functionality, due to libraries not being updated etc. It's not a good feeling spending 5k on a machine only to discover your main tool doesn't work flawlessly yet.
Depending on which programs and plugins you use. There are many plugins that do not support m1 chips yet, if thats not a problem for you, switching to mac is great idea.
I'd also consider the cost of getting multiple GPUs for your pc vs the cost of switching to Mac, as well as all the software, peripherals, and everything else you'd need to get
Apple used the 12900 for a reason: it's the wrong PC CPU for the job. You want to compare the Studio with a Ryzen, Threadripper, or Xeon, all of which can have similar or superior core counts to the Studio, whereas the 12900 has only 8 performance cores.
The 5950 doesnt have built in codec compiling and can actually slow down video editing. A ryzen is GOOD at doing almost everything, and the intel chip is GREAT as a workstation chip, maybe gaming, but falls short in areas where multi-core performance is needed. The m1 ultra seems to be a weird middle ground, and definitely should not be discounted due to Arm's infancy. I dont think it would be fair to compare it to a threadripper or Xeon, because then you get into performance per watt and worrying about popping a breaker. (Not to mention price). (320w + 450w x2 for dual 3090 ti + other perifs gets you reaaaaal close to popping a breaker in a standard home office.) Not to mention the heat generated. The only reason I say this is because I have a custom liquid cooled 5950 and a 3090, but I feel as though its short comings as a workstation (not to mention how shit windows 11 is) make the Mac studio more attractive to a very specific cliental. It would be nice to have a native 6k/5k displays and far less cables imo.
@@hanse81 Or perhaps rendering something with a 1500w power supply, a laptop, and around 4-5 monitors in total drawing power from the wall. That would average around 1800w right there assuming the PC isnt choking the PSU to the max. Throw in a mini fridge or any small home office appliance for good measure and await the perfect storm.
Still scratching my head for what the target market is for this machine... the Pros and developers doing 3D, CAD and photo work left the ecosystem a while ago with the video guys following suite. The big issue is that Apple left the so called big spender pros and developers on thier own after pulling Nvidia support... they weren't going to sit and wait, the damage is done and SJ would of fired TC and anyone involved. As for the power advantage, the card has already been played and in the end its a physics issue for every design... higher clocks and more cores means more power.
@@cartoonasaurus no because Apple left them with paper weights, how many photo and video design houses with Nvidia cards were basically abandoned without a care in the world. SJ would of never allowed it to happen, you don't abandon the guys that pay top dollar 🙄 this is ok in the consumer land.
@@kleanthisgroutides7100 . People are quick to forgive when they can complete their tedious tasks so very much quicker, so even though I have no doubt that Apple‘s disagreement with Nvidia did cause a lot of problems and was certainly disrespectful to a vast number of hard-working professionals, time moves on and people forgive, especially when forgiveness has the benefit of getting much more work done…
I work as a graphic designer and I can see the Studio becoming a replacement for the iMac as our industry standard. I don't like it due to the repairability (currently-they might release a repair software tool so you can swap out SSD modules) and how a lot of companies will have to either shed their machines every few years or spend the maximum possible to futureproof the investment and have spares due to them not being user upgradable but the studio is pretty impressive.
This shows how much more performance we'd get with good optimization. See how Blender has a huge performance boost using the GPU power that well, I wonder why not pretty much every software does not do something similar. I am thinking for instance about Adobe, which don't seem to properly take advange of powerful GPUs.
True! Look at Affinity's software. They use GPUs way better and man, the performance is light years ahead of Adobe's graphic suites (like PS and Illustrator)
Blender Optix render uses RT cores on the Nvidia GPUs, which is a specificly designed ray tracing accelerator, thats why is so fast. Just like Apple's media engine made m1 ultra so fast in video editing on those apple optimized codec like prores. Both of those are not general compute unit, but special accelerator that need supported software.
well depends what you want to upgrade. RAM sure you are right, CPU well how intel gives a f... about users they support the same socket for 2-3 years and that's it, and GPU well yes you can upgrade it on PC, but if you have an old CPU it will drag down your GPU.
This is a myth. You can upgrade an downgraded (wrong purchased) machine. In the end you pay more. I had an Athlon XP, I didn’t managed to upgrade. You need to replace motherboard, memory, cpu, vga, sometimes even psu. It’s like you change the all of the car and you keep the tyres.
@@korgmangeek wow athlon, that's way way back. AMD Ryzen cpu has serve 4 generation with the same motherboards. So people who bought the 1st gen Ryzen can now upgrade to the 4th generation Ryzen without switching motherboards. So essentially if you didn't buy the lowest end motherboards, you can upgrade 4 generation later without rebuilding everything. New cpu, new gpu and that's it.
@@teepan2388 and funny how memory and solid state drives for PC have always cost at least 1/2 of Apples prices? Apple the computer for the sycophant fawnbois that are paying on 3 iPhones at one time since they have to always have the latest.
@@teepan2388 the comparison here is with a dedicated GPU. The classic PC tower. Nice info about Ryzen. I like those APU’s. My next computer I would like to be ARM based or Ryzen.
In my experience, single core performance matters most, followed by GPU performance, then multicore. Apple’s next mission has to be to scale up the speed of the performance CPUs.
The M1 is based off A14 chip The M2 is based off A15 chip The a15 is 10% faster in single core so basically the next iteration should beat intel by a little bit and in multi core it will smoke intel
Iam doin a lot of CPu based 3D work and simulation. I need this multicore performance... Hopefully they are all switching more to gpu simulation and rendering
matters the most for what? as the classic saying on IT, depends what you do. Have you seen how the M1 crushes Intel on code compiling? if you play games you dont give a f.. about that, if you are a developer, you do.
@@seashellwanderers456 Intel will likely have a new lineup next year too, what if they do another of those 40% performance increases like they did with 11th vs 12th gen?
@@Razar244 they’d only do that if they need to catch up or leapfrog. With most CPU being so close to each other in single core performance it’s going to be incremental upgrade for a while.
So, at the start of this I heard, “the PC is a computer and Apple makes a console.” So when new components are created the PC can gain performance in the future, where you have to buy a new Apple device (just like game consoles). Apple will never have that many games due to requiring to use a standard that is only on their devices. If you don’t want to truly own your device then Apple is good for you, but for those of us that need to be able to customize our computers for the task, then PCs are way better. Also, I have yet to see the same level of ray tracing in games. For anything that isn’t built into the M1 chip, Apple is not beating the PCs. When a better codec comes out and it is not in the M1 chip, then you have to buy a whole new computer and the PC could have a PCI card that could do that.
@@williamtopping thank you, I totally remember those ISA, then PCI, then AGP 1x, 2x, etc slots to then back to PCI with the Voodoo3 cards to settling on PCIe. I’m always hearing about this “e-waste”, “planned obsolescence by not upgrading”, etc… yet in all the years of building PCs with friends the outcome has been: bunch of RAM sticks tossed around (because you want to increase the memory but match the speeds and channels pair count right? The older ones gotta go), PSUs tossed around (because they are either cheap and last a year or the new 500W GPU needs a beefier 1000W one), or tossed Motherboards (because the CPU slot changed yet once again), or Alpine-Ridge thunderbolt PCIe cards because the new motherboard only works with a Titan-Ridge (beyond annoying how to make thunderbolt ports + drivers work on PCs by the way)… the reusability is in practice quite precarious. How do I know? I did it, stopped doing it but continue seeing my friends struggling and doing the exact same thing while losing countless hours juggling with the issues. Just look at that case, the size, the power draw and the amount of fans for Christ sake… then pay for the windows license, then office, etc In my experience, along my family there are 2010 and 2013 MBP still ongoing, an iMac 2013 still ongoing, my mom has an iPhone 6S (7 years old), my young brother an iPhone X (5 years old) and an iPad Pro 11 (2018)… all of those that I have passed along and are still in use and working fine for what they need to do. I.e. they are definitively NOT on some garbage can in the city as ‘e-waste’.
@@alejmc Just remember, the PC can add an external GPU and the Apple devices can't. This isn't much of an argument for desktops, but in laptops, it could be a case of having full power at home (which is way more powerful than the M1 Ultra in most tasks) and long battery life on the road.
@@jfftck That’s such a wreck of an issue… I truly hope that eGPUs somehow make a comeback on the Mx SOCs. The reason for it not having it when all the previous Intel Macs had it is definitely nonsense or there might be a serious drawback that we haven’t been told about.
@@alejmc I also have a MBP 2010 15inch that’s still kicking. Battery degradation is there after 8 years but I swapped it out for a new one and it’s still going now. Best laptop I’ve ever purchased
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the crazy lower power usage of the studio. In the UK right now electricity prices are expensive, almost tripling in cost. The studio would easily save me a huge amount of money especially if I’m doing a lot of intensive work I think sometimes people forget about power consumption as if it doesn’t make a difference, but it’s certainly something I am way more conscious of now that electricity is 35p / kWh!
Y’all doing some good work over there. It’s good to see other channels shout you and Luke Miani out over what tests and disassembly’s you guys do. Keep it up 👍
Max, maybe a small mistake? At the very beginning (0:16) you compare the MAC with the 3090, but your copy of the Apple slide shows 3060 TI (right bottom corner) Which one is right? Thanks.
Editor showed the wrong slide. Apple used that one to compare to the M1 Max base GPU. The ultra they compared to RTX 3090. This PC definitely has 3090 as we showed 👍
TL;DW: If you use macOS software, buy the Studio. If you game, buy the PC. If you use GPU-heavy apps, buy the PC. If you use CPU-heavy apps that have been optimized specifically for Apple Silicon, buy the Studio. If you need raw power, buy the PC. If you need efficiency, buy the Studio.
ProRes is a benefit of the Mac ecosystem, but in PC space there is now a move towards AV1+opus, the codecs supposedly next to be used by UA-cam and Netflix etc., not staying only on the ubiquituous x264/x265 video encoders... And here most new HW actually comes with decode blocks and some with encode blocks in the sillicon as well. Apple's media engine lacks accelerators for this codec. We'll see which one makes more sense in the grand scheme of things, ProRes or AV1, in the coming months/years ;)
@@PaulStoffregen Yeah, there's a valid point there... On the other hand, both are standards in video codecs used in the industry, though for slightly differing purposes and by different gear. The small-size-better-visual-quality AoMedia's mantra-based AV1 is to be used by the streaming platforms, and possibly in future it will be the de facto standard to generate files for them or to stream files from through respective dedicated apps or in future even web-interfaces. So while ProRes is for more lossless-like encoding for high qualities that you can get out of, say, a Pro iPhone and several pro cameras, the efficient AV1 with higher bitrates may become the better choice for small-time "pros" targeting different platforms that serve the content to the rest of the world. Since big studios/groups that would be more willing to prepare or work with content in ProRes might actually have a dedicated video churning really powerful box/cluster, Macs are possibly still going to be used by small-time/hobbyist "creators", so also targeting differing outputs/platforms. And you cannot forget that officially the highest quality modes in AV1 offer almost placebo-like quality with bitrate efficiency, let alone produce (nearly or exactly) lossless streams in other modes as well. But the majority rules tantrum prevails. After all, if majority of the streaming platforms switch to AV1 codec use and it even gets propagated in browser-served streaming, it might become more useful for home/SMB users to have it supported more efficiently than just through software computations. but I guess that's what maybe M2 or M3 chip variants will bring to the table as a PR-heralded must-have upgrade ;)
@@billB101 Sure you can, same as Apple products can do AV1, but neither comes with integrated ASICs/FPGAs for this specific purpose hardware acceleration respectively...
Or you have Linus Tech Tips who butcher all their Apple reviews. Watching Linus and gang try to work with Apple products reminds me of monkeys finding a monolith and throwing sticks and stones at it.
@@77dris they get money from affiliate links of those pc parts so that the Apple haters will buy using their links. If they make Apple looks good, they will make less money, it’s just business at the end.
10:32 The same people that say Apple is cheating because they have their massive media engine to help in video editing workflows don't say anything about how the RTX series cards' RT cores also massively help accelerate their render times in Blender. All of these SoCs have non 'big core' accelerators and features that will help them gain more performance than the raw GPU or CPUs would otherwise allow in specific tasks.
I love how you always spill out the truth after everyone else creates reviews for new products. It shows that you only want to test products once they are stable in terms of software. Highly appreciate your honesty mate. Thank you!
All things considered, the Mac really isn‘t too far off… especially if you take into account all the power and cooling required on the Windows machine. They simply should have compared it to a 3070, would have been impressive enough imo. A coming up Mac Pro will most likely annihilate both machines.
Sure the macpro will kill everything, but first it will kill your pockets real bad. Thise things would be super expensive and wont match price to performance ratio of PC. I mean, Mac Studio Ultra 64 core loses badly in price performance ratio AND MacPro will make it even worse.
almost a million subs? Man, I feel like you just started this channel not that long ago. Goes to show what hard work can do, thanks for all the great content guys!
It’s amazing how it can come so close to a PC so much bigger and use less power, like it’s insane! Would love to see a mini-pc set up comparison too to see if the pc was just as small and compact how that’d effect scores. I love my 3090 but man that card runs so hot during the summer
@@coincoin4843 Idk, not being able to upgrade the Studio seems pretty awful. RTX 4000, RX 7000 and Ryzen 7000 are round the corner, so i doubt whatever leads the ARM chips hold will last any longer. And oh yeah lets see how the competition stacks up since most of the gains the M1 chips have is from them being on TSMC 5nm. Further more, if rumors and speculations are true the AMD RDNA 3 cards could be 2.5 times faster than their current top end, meaning absolutely crushing the Ultra's GPU. The media engine accelerators are honestly the only hardware that may not be beaten though. I don't see AMD Radeon planning to bring media encoders to their GPUs anytime soon, while Nvidea will probably be too bothered trying to compete in other areas of the market to do anything with Nvenc. What i really want though, is for next gen threadrippers to drop. Last time AMD did that they wiped the floor completely. A 6990X would reach a whole new level of compute I doubt even Intel would be able to match.
The ProRes comparisons are kind of cap because no one is buying these computers to sit down and make proxies to achieve faster render times. I don’t know any camera that actually shoots prores except the iPhone.. so technically speaking you’d have to make proxies to be able to achieve those render times in the first place. And depending on the amount of clips you would be transcoding would kind of defeat the purpose of making the proxies in the first place all being said that the footage that was shot is 4K 4:2:2 10 Bit and lower since the tests show that the playback speeds on both machines are perfect.. Dont get me wrong I don’t hate Max or Apple, I just think the test is kind of cap when using a codec that was specifically designed for one companies product that you can’t even get without transcoding the media to begin with.. 😅
14900k more like it. The 12900k is basicly a 10nm node performing around a as good as a 7nm one. The M1 is a 5nm node... Imagine if they both were actual 5nm. Intel would be way up above. And considering the frontier of miniaturization is going to hault due to the laws of physics, it might look like the TSMC-based chip designers might loose their current main advantage over intel at some point as well.
It is a bit unfair for the PC for few reasons: - The 12900K is not the most power efficient x86 CPU. The 5950x is much more efficient. - The price tag of $4000 for a PC doesn't add much more performance. You could have a $2500 PC with the same performance. - The Mac is not upgradeable independently. Which means that if we only care about CPU the price tag for the PC could be as little as $1000. - Other benchmarks like PCmark show a much bigger performance gap in favour of the PC.
Your first point is only true under full load, and doesn't take into account getting tasks completed faster. While an all core max load will have the 12900k using more power, most normal light-medium workloads, which most PCs will spend most of their life performing. The 12900k can use less power, even more so if you take time to complete into account.
The 5950x still gets smoked. A $2500 PC would not have the same performance (and you would then compare it to a M1 Studio max for less than that price). The PC CPU is not that great, even Alder Lake and the only thing that saves the PC performance is the 3090 GPU by Nvidia. Put in a cheap GPU and it would get smoked. Also keep in mind the Mac is an integrated GPU. Nobody upgrades PCs anymore. I built PCs for a decade and would just buy a new PC when new tech came out (generally new CPUs and GPUs needed new motherboard, memory, PSU etc anyway). As a few UA-camrs have pointed out lately, they can't remember the last time they upgraded just parts in a PC. Also, PCs become worthless after a couple years while Macs retain resale for up to a decade (not to mention they are far more reliable and last way longer). Who cares about benchmarks, especially like PCmark which (as it's name states) are optimized for Windows... real world performance is all that matters and in everything outside of gaming and 3D rendering, the Mac destroys this $5000 PC. The fact that almost all of the software being used to compare the two (outside of Final Cut and Xcode) is written for Windows PC, and has to be translated in some way for the Mac, now that is UNFAIR. And yet even still the Mac still beats the PC in most areas.
@@77dris The 5950x literally matches it's performance the only difference is power. However unless your electric is through the roof the cost difference between the 2 builds offsets that.
We have to keep in mind that apple has done something which is a leap in tech. Look at the size of those custom pcs compared to mac. In the next years addition of proper own dedicated gpus will be relatively easy for apple. I don’t think intel can catch up now apple has beat them just like a15 bionic chips vs snapdragon
Maybe for some space is a HUGE factor, for me, it ain't. And, considering that the i9 12900K, RTX 3090 PC System actually costs $800 less for the exact same storage and RAM (even with the Bloated Graphics Card Cost), and performs significantly better, I will take the RTX 3090 any day of the Year. Imagine what will happen if you could actually buy the RTX3090 at MSRP, It would blow the Apple out of the Game.
Performs significantly better at gaming and 3D work, yes. If you do video, photos or coding, the Mac is often significantly better. Thing is that Apple has overtaken Intel handily, but Nvidia still reigns supreme in the GPU game. I hope that's where Apple intend to gain ground with the M2.
Yes, at 4-5 times the wattage, the latest Intel chip has something like 6-7% performance over the 18 month old M1 single core performance. This fall, with M2, Apple will again enjoy a year+ of best single core. Hell, even if they just let the older architecture use more power, they would crush Intel. But apple makes chips that are meant to run on battery (phones, tablets, laptops) so their desktop chips are a bit of an afterthought - and still they trade blows with the latest Intel has to offer.
Yea hardware doesn't scale quite like you imagine. Its not like you can simply take the wattage ratio and multiply that to the performance difference. The Apple single core performance is already near the limit based on the process and voltage they're running at. Most improvements will more likely be coming from TSMC process improvements.
10:45 isn't fair cuz H.256 encoding is tailor-cut towards MacOS and its hardware, it'd have been a fair test if both of them were encoded on H.264 since both the cards support it. NVIDIA is just rolling out drivers to optimize H.265 encoding.
I’m actually very impressed with what Apple has done with the M1 Ultra in the Mac Studio working with less . For something that small to go up against a Goliath of a machine like the PC is incredible and actually foreshadows the amazing things Apple is going to be doing in the future with their chips and devices. I am absolutely shocked by M1 Ultra🤯🤯
Maybe for You space is a HUGE factor, for me it ain't. And, considering that the i9 12900K, RTX 3090 PC System actually costs $800 less for the exact same storage and RAM, and performs significantly better, I will take the RTX 3090 any day of the Year.
@@topfamous297 Space means nothing. You dont need a corsair 1000D to host a 3090. Look at the channel OptimumTech. Guy has 5950x + 3090s watercooled in 15-20 liters cases
Imagine if the Mac Studio was larger and allowed for more thermal performance…oh wait I guess we’ll have to wait for the new Mac Pro. Great review and testing.
Which I heard they will stitch 4 M1 max (or M2 max) chips together. So if the ultra can compete in some areas with a RTX 3090, imagine what doubling the Ultra would do. Honesty could beat out the new RTX 4090 when it comes out.
But it's not purely a thermal issue, as the Mac Studio Ultra never seems to go above 60°celcius for all these tests. It feels like Apple is - once again - putting a premium on quiet running and stability instead of raw performance. I hope they gradually let the Ultra off the leash via OS updates as it ages and they get more experience with where and when it can be pushed.
@@eprpop Yeah, i like how people Argue It has the potential to compete but it's not utilizing the full potential of the GPU beacuse of thermal/wattage limitations due to bad Software encoding Just beacuse of One simple Aztech Benchmark they saw where the M1 ultra was almost eavening out the 3090, when in Truth the 3090 had downscaled wattage in this too if you search on the internet that it can actually score around 600-700+ FPS in that Benchmark on PCs that actually use the full potential off the Card. Even if you argue M1 Ultra Is badly optimized, it's still running at lower FPS against a 3090 using minimal wattage, It doesn't come close to ampere or RDNA 2 even at full throttle and optimiziation, and the Mac Pro with 4 M1 dies Will be even worse, since It Will have a huge NUMA penalty, due to not having a PCIe Die solution to boost the Speed of Objective C's clock Cycles interconnection like other gaming powerhouse GPUs have, and also due to the lack of RT hardware accellerated, so yeah. Even my GTX 1060 6GB using a 7700K at 1440P in that test can achieve in-between 100 and 200 FPS LMAO, a 3090 at least has 5-6 times the FPS of the 1060, not Just 2 times and a half. Fun fact, even Snapdragon's architecture Is superior, Apple actually Is more powerful nowdays cause they ripped Qualcomm off their PA and Intrinsity architecture ISA which Evolved from that which were once AMD's ATI Radeon Graphics card used even on popular consoles like PS3 and PS4(hence the synonym "Adreno"), and stole their engineers in Orlando, Now Qualcomm Is coming back on track but oh well, Chip shortage, so for now they're Just gonna Stick with the Razer handheld instead of spending Money over an expansive desktop gaming GPU and CPU set.
Since Apple says the Mac Studio is the replacent for the 27” iMac I would like you to compare them. Since the high end iMac and the base model Mac Studio are closest in price I think that would be a fair comparison.
These videos showing the complexity of compering different pc systems are great. This shows a growing maturity in the computer community which is now realising that the difference between Macs and PCs is down to optimisation, which is extremely difficult with PCs as there are an infinite number of combinations of components that need to be considered. Likewise, the two different systems work for different constituencies and so, your choice of computer should be based upon what you intended to use the computer for and not just the looks. Great work Max and the team love your content.
I wonder what is the actual running cost impact of the M1 vs intel… the entire power per watt thing. How much would a dev or a studio save in power costs over a month?
that is a question many people will ask in the coming years, the price of electricity will going up so fast and so high.. and when you work daily 10hrs on a computer that has 370W max (and mostly takes under 100W), its quite a difference from the electricity guzzling huge pc with 1000W.. even more so in studios (pun intended), where are 5-10 computers running all day..
I don’t have the maths to prove it, but it’s not hard to imagine that the cost savings would be significant for a medium to large operation doing creative work. Imagine that you have 100 developers and half a Mac Studio. Those 50 developers using the Macs to do the same tasks would use just a fraction of the electricity. With that kind of savings and given the setups are comparable price, you could reinvest that saved money in hiring more developers or putting it in the bank vs the power company.
@@ericpmoss Or in the winter, it doesn't matter. Where I'm from all heating is done by electricity anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's a desktop or an electric space heater putting out the heat ;) But I guess in many places it is either so warm that people use an AC, or heating is gas-based. So my case is probably the rarer one.
This 100% depends on the workflow, software, and studio setup. You cant just completely switch up systems in most production environments and maintain the same level of productivity. The likelihood of and studio invested in one platform or the other switching platforms to save a few pennies on the power bill is ZERO when they have far more important things to worry about.
@@DuckMan77 but how about some smaller studios looking to switch from Mac Pro to mac studio or MacBook pros. For the big studios I see cost of electric being a smallerfactor But I wonder would it be a criteria for Max Tech or other tec YT studios
As a programmer, you are wrong about the Mac being the way to go for code. I have an M1 Pro MB and Sure performance is good, but compatibility is still pretty bad. So much still requires tons of workarounds completely negating any performance gains.
@@LosPollosHermanos. ??? Interesting comment. Did you sleep the whole last year when everybody compared the M1 Max against other CPUs/GPUs for editing?
@@LosPollosHermanos. He is talking about the video editing performance, not just the CPU performance-so the video encoders/decoders and the GPU also play a significant role
M1 max CPU has little to do with that performance. Its the on-board video chips that make it faster. CPU to CPU, the M1 Max would be inferior. If you put those video chips on an AMD platform, it it would also smoke the M1 Max. That, however, does not exist, so for all intents and purposes, in terms of video editing and only video editing, the M1 chip is much better. For 3D work and heavy VFX, Mac products are unfortunately worthless at this point in time.
I basically came to a conclusion a while back; I buy both PCs and Macs. I use PCs for gaming such as Microsoft Flight Simulator, I use Macs for everything else such as FCPro and Capture One, and Adobe CC.
Interesting thing is that my older MacBook plays MSFS 2020 very well at medium settings, and I'm not a hardcore simmer or whatever so I don't care much. I only need this one since I use it for mostly school and work.
Man I wish I had both. The PC for high end gaming, 3D work and color grading. The Mac Studio for video and photo editing and overall Macintosh clean and snappy experience!
The M1 Ultra performs much better in Resolve with the 3090RTX with as many nodes as you want. Only thing that is slower is spatial noise reduction. Temporal Noise Reduction is just as fast and has better results anyway. Neat Video even performs better than on the RXT3090 and so do other OFX plugins such as Dehancer. Speedwarp/Optical Flow is also comparably fast on both systems.
What is the reason for a pc, customization and better warranties. If Apple was so good why does it only give its products 12 months warranty, where a cpu, motherboard, ssd gets 3-5 years and some components 10 years. A gpu has a 3 year warranty, not apple care, from new they rate them as being good enough for 3 years. Apple clearly dont think theyre products match up in this way. Apple has a great format with M1 but thats it. Its servicable by them where they will likely tell you that if it has a problem the price is astronomical because of the way they design it, so better just buy new. This is the only reason apple doesnt have full market capture like Amazon.
Awesome testing! Only thing of interest left would be the power consumption compared for the same tasks :) Cause Apple promoted the low power usage of their M1 stuff
The fact that its uses less than a third of power, runs silent and you can carry it in your backpack to anywhere makes it a huge win for Apple. I am hugely impressed with machine!
I really REALLY hope future Apple Silicon includes FFH for ray tracing or BVH tree building so that it can specifically accelerate 3D rendering software. You just can’t compete with Nvidia on that front these days.
Be great to revisit this in six months to see where all the software is. I currently live in After Effects, Cinema 4D and learning Davinci Fusion, and After Effects is still not Apple silicon native. So staying with my 2017 iMac Pro for now
I'm also in AE and hoping the software updates in time for my Studio to arrive (due in May). The beta build of AE supposedly supports M1 but obviously that comes with other trade-offs like stability and compatibility which is really not great for a professional workflow! Such a pain that Adobe is taking so long to update their software considering they've already had 18 months!
Apple exaggerated those charts drastically! The studio is basically ideal for foto, video, and audio production and editing. That’s what it’s made for and that’s what it’s great at. Nothing else. It’s a task focused computer.
@@korgmangeek i thank the gods that apple doesn't have monopoly & lead in having most games becoz if it was up to apple, there would be no modding, no customization, literally nothing what an open source users prefer. Windows supports millions of Hardware devices & still gets most things done while apple has closed eco system so its hardware always has the advantage of optimization in programs. I bet apple can't beat windows if it starts supporting millions of hardware devices. And if you look at the cost of apple hardware then there really isn't any value for money
@@snake2106 my message is very clear. M1 is better for programming. In fact it’s better even for gaming. The problem is the gaming tradition. Gamers prefer windows for gaming even from gaming consoles. Funny thing that gamers call Apple users as sheeps :-) Funny thing you compare a closed system (windows, Intel, amd, nvidia) with another closed system. Well, I use Linux, so I don’t get your point. Thank god there is Linux and my 2008 computer works like new. Is not supported by the closed system of windows.
@@korgmangeek and my message is also very clear, does apple supports millions of hardware devices ? Does ios supports lots of phone hardware like android does ? All these things aside apple has even ditched backwards compatibility completely. Apple is not better at gaming, don't know from where apple fanboys like you make these absurd claims
@@snake2106 your answer is out of context. I informed about the fact that M1 is faster for programming (compiling) and you state drivers (?) and windows (?). I don’t have time to debunk your myths. Your compare two closed systems. More facts for you: 1. Linux is better for drivers (even more hardware support). I have several hardware that works with Linux but not with windows. 2. Microsoft does not write drivers, Apple write (sometimes). You don’t know that several devices also work with iOS and MacOS?
Not a single benchmark matters, I can do whatever I want on the PC. I could do that too on the pre Mac silicone even running on Mac OS. Now I can't do shit on the Mac eco. I'll stick to pc this time around, my 4 macs I have when they die they die i'm not going back.
I’d like to see Apple invest in more dedicated video encoders and decoders on the next gen chips. This is a big part of the m series video editing performance, as well as overall efficiency. Imagine dual or quad dedicated encoders/decoders covering every major video format.
Encoders and decoders are fine, apple need to improve their raw gpu performance. My m1 pro can handle simple edit and color grading 4k prores video very easily and faster than my 3080 desktop. But as soon as I add any GPU intensive effects like resolve edge sharpen and denoise, it start to lag badly and perform way worse than my 3080 PC.
@@qiyuxuan9437 agreed, if they can manage to increase their gpu performance without sacrificing too much efficiency, along with adding more encoder and decoders (and native format support) this would help a lot.
My takeaway. IF every program and game could utilise all hardware in both desktops they’re basically equally good at the same price. So the main issue is that Apple needs to convince developers to make their programs and games natively supported on Apple. When that happens it’s all about what OS you prefer and if things like power consumption, portability and so on matters to you.
When Apple used Intel, it couldn’t (or didn’t) convince devs to make games for macOS. No hope for gaming on Apple Silicons. They aren’t meant for gaming. Intel still has an edge for 3D and CADs stuffs. This is where Apple need improvement. :D
The new MAC is amazing, but with these tests you also have to remember, that apple played their cards incredibly smart by putting in the media engines and all in all having compiled software for exactly silicon, which definatly goves it the upper hand in many parts. A PC doesn't have this kind of speciality and has to run basically everything on anything. Now athe M1 Ultra is still an amazing product and more competition is always phenomenal for the consumer.
You also have to take into account the wattage and heat!!! I know that the Mac is specialised, but if that's what you do, then it's a good system... And as you said, it can only be a good thing for the consumer, as it will lead to a new hardware WAR!!! Lower pricing and/or better hardware!!!
@@helloukw true, but since these multicore chips scale so well, i expect to see less singlecore applications, since they won't be able to compete with optimized multicore applications. However, that may take a few years.
I think the answer here is if you are a Mac fanboy, go for the Mac, if you are a PC fanboy go get your PC, if you want to do 3d render, then get the PC .thanks for the review!!!
Unfortunately, in real case scenario for software engineering, M1 dissapointed. I have MBP with M1 Pro, play with docker a lot, golang & javascript microservices, backend development services such RDBMS / NoSQL, messaging service, streaming service, the performance isn't great. Don't get me wrong, my expectation really high so I go with MBP. But I feel like it's not ready for development workstation for now. At least for my workflow. Simple things like seed data to database from shell script in docker container really slow, even slower than my low end Ryzen 5 2400G. Keep in mind, all my containers running ARM version. Have tried podman as well instead docker, but it's not help. The hardware is awesome, it's like dream gadget for everyone. Powerful but insanely efficient. I don't regret get the MBP, because I still can do many things and get all the benefits but it holds me to use it as daily driver as few my projects cannot run very well on there. Hopefully, it will change in near future.
how is it for virtualization? You could run a x86 (or arm) linux vm and try running your containers there. I think it might have to do with docker desktop if you use that, normal docker might be faster than that. But anyway I have to agree to you, apple imagines how you should use a computer and if you fit into that, great, but all other use cases just get ignored. If you use your computer beyond watching netflix or using siri to intelligently decide which word document to write on next, you are left with weird workarounds to things. I have a dell xps 9510 and I have to say I am very happy, some trackpad issues like everyone has but the performance is great coming from five years old hardware. For you, a developer who is also into devops, I think macos is not perfect (yet?). But really, try virtualization, it might be better with that.
The Mac Studio is garbage for the price. Apple used to be a bit more in price but there was value in that you could run windows, upgrade hard drives, ram etc while still having the pleasure of OSX. With all of that gone you're left with the same premium price for an economy class experience. 512gb on a 'pro' machine as a base storage option is pathetic. They even try to charge you an extra $300 just for a keyboard and track pad. After 20yrs with Apple - I'm done at this point and heading back to windows.
Great video. I am so glad your channel exists! Because PC’s dominate the market, many channels cherry pick test to make Apple look less capable to viewers. Your channel helps people whose jobs depend on honest and accurate information.
I like the thoroughness of your reviews, but you are too biased towards Apple. It's hard to get through these comparisons videos b/c you always go in with hard favoring Mac/Apple.
My 2022 17' Razer with the i9, 3080ti and 4k screen did the PartyTug in 3.58 seconds and the Classroom in 38.15 seconds. Both of these machines are impressive but I'm more impressed with my laptop for 3D artwork.
hoping the Mac Studio can play all AAA games in the near future. it overkilled PC but no contents for gaming and if next generation is Mac Studio Pro, it will overkill everything but for gamers, it means nothing.
Come on Apple! Pay these companies to optimize their software to your M1 chips. They can't just sit and wait for Blender or others to do it for them, they have to go after these companies, or else there is no point on making the most advanced machines and not using their full power.
I think Apple is working with the blender developers, donating resources and actually lending people to work on code. I don’t know the whole story, I have only heard bits of info.
What needs to happen is the customers that were sold on the subscription model that would “ensure good updates and ongoing support” should be hounding the companies where optimization and performance is still trash. I mainly point this at Adobe and that is why I use Affinity graphic software. But Adobe isn’t the only perpetrator.
if you upgrade the mac pro (yes its upgradable) then sure it’ll destroy more pcs. But i agree with ur point but it all comes to r&d of custom and amd parts used
Great video and insights guys. Just goes to show how important it is to look beyond the benchmarks and consider which system best fits your actual workflow.
I already have a VP3881 ViewSonic Monitor, but I'm struggling to buy: 1. Macbook M1 Max 10-Core CPU/32-Core GPU with 64Gb RAM- 4TB SSD [$4,899.00] 2. Or Mac Studio Ultra 20-Core CPU/48-Core GPU with 64Gb RAM - 4TB SSD [$4,999.00] I don't know what to buy among them. One is portable and has everything. One is semi-portable and needs a monitor and a power/battery when there are load sheddings/power outage. What do you suggest me to do please?
One thing to consider here is that the tasks that the Mac Studio excels at are usually things it has dedicated hardware/chips for (video and image editing in particular) which many x86 based systems dont have. I would have to question the Firefox compile times as those dont look right for the 12900k, if they system wasnt limited on RAM it should be closer to 10min on the compile time, this also begs the question of was the M1 compiling the same exact code base? Is the M1 target faster to compile than the x86 target? Very few details are given on the x86 system or how the tests and their environments have been controlled. Like how much RAM, how much and what type of storage, etc. These tests arent defining the variables so people can accurately determine which system fits their needs. If you dont detail exactly what and how so tests could in theory be accurately reproduced your information almost becomes useless for either platform. Last thing I'd like to say is that the topic of the M1 getting crushed in Compute workloads isnt because lacking utilization but the 3090 being a compute beast, the M1 is fine but in raw compute performance only Quadro series will thrash a 3090 and if anyone ever expected it to match that 300+ watt beast thats just silly.
When I bought M1 Mac mini low power consumption along with portability was one major consideration. I seperated my concern and found the best solution. Gaming on PS4 and for all non gaming needs Mac mini m1
Really can’t thank you enough for this quality testing,This is an insane test!!!🔥🔥🔥🙂,Keep up the awesome content,I really appreciate your dedication and efforts!!!!!.The Mac studio really is powerful,However the custom Pc is amazing as well beating out the M1 ultra in so many tests,This competition really is amazing to see!!!.Thanks so much for your quality tests!!.
We all know a it is cheaper and you get more power when you build a PC, but it runs on Windows, and Windows sucks. And come on, this little box is super powerful and kind of brings to shame a few PCs, I mean, everything runs on one chip.
Thank you for these in-depth comparisons. Hopefully you’ll have the time to review the results once some of these benchmarking programs are optimized for the ultra chip. One request I’ve been meaning to ask for a while: can you please add HandBreak to the CPU tests? A significant portion of the video profession uses this shareware program to get high quality h264 yet somehow makes much smaller file sizes than FCP makes. And it has builds for all platforms. My 2013 8core MacPro is slightly slower than my M1Max 16” so I think a number of people would be interested in seeing numbers. Personally I would also like to see another CPU only program’s results but DCP-O-Matic is such a specialized video export program (it’s only for cinema servers), I wouldn’t expect anyone to bother with it.
You should do this test again when AMD releases ZEN4. But by that time even the Mac Pro will probably be out. Amazing times ahead. Literally an arms race between Apple, AMD, Nvidia, and Intel. What a time to be alive.
@@billB101 research takes years though it’s not like they can stop their current chip and change all the designs. I think big companies understand that some competition is needed and they can’t keep releasing hardware that are 100% more powerful each iterations. It’s amazing what a thin chip can do though. The energy saving from these next gen chips is what should be pushed forward. You’re talking about 8kw of energy saved per 24h use, 3300kw saved per year per computer if the computer is working constantly. In my country that’s a saving of $788 per year and that cost keeps going up 2-3% per year Crypto mining will become much cheaper to run and greener for example.
What we aren't being told is what drivers were being used with the RTX 3090, since there are two: Game Ready and Studio. The Mac Studio is optimised for Studio tasks, however the RTX 3090 can be optimised as well by installing Studio drivers. Please redo this test otherwise I would consider it bias.
Awesome video, cheers guys! I think Apple is doing so fantastically with the new Mac lineup. Let's not forget this is still within the transition phase so it is expected that software ecosystem would hinder a bit in terms of unleashing the full potential of M series power. I reckon that in a couple of years when many software vendors roll out their next version productivity software, the ecosystem would improve greatly and utilise much better of Apple's M1 and future M2 series chips. Intel, AMD and all other chip makers would fear, and should.
Apple builds their computers for video editing. The PC is balanced. If want gaming, get a PC. I you want to be able to do both, get a PC. If you are a creative, get an Apple.
i feel this channel is strongly biased for the apple silicone. if the apple silicone gets beaten the crap out there is always an excuse. the aztec ruins is not the real gaming performance AT ALL. games are not written for apple silicone so they will run like crap! this is the reality now! i dont say this will not change but if the apple silicone is not used all the way and the graphics are kinda software throttled this is also the reality now. we will not know why is it throttled maybe there are some minor issuies maybe they are massive. so please dont paint a picture that is based on future performance that we maybe can assume. the gpu section gets beaten the crap out by the 3090. but since you are active video editors i can totally understand your excitement xD
Were you expecting the Mac Studio to win in THAT many different apps and situations? Comment below!
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Why are you yelling?
I think the Mac does very well, considering it is so much smaller, silent and power-efficient. As for 3D, wait for upcoming updates. It may not reach Optix level, but certainly CUDA, which is more than fine for most people. Also the RTX is darn expensive and chews >300W
It was about what I expected. I am anxious to see the M1 Ultra vs the 2020 iMac with 5700 XT.
P
P
Davinci Resolve has really come a long way. I recall years back, nobody ever gave resolve a look for editing... it was all for colouring, but now, its editing speed even beats other softwares. And to even think that there is a free version. Thank you so much BlackMagic Design for putting this power at our hands
That the "editing speed" beats the competition is not quite accurate - export speed sure, timeline performance yes. But Davinci is still a bit clunky when it comes to the user interface and user experience, many small bugs and imbalanced mix of beginner-friendly features and insanely in depth options for specialists. I love the program, but I'd still edit in either Premiere or FCPX. I'd take Resolve over Avid though. Hate Avid.
despite that I edit faster in premiere pro's workflow + many more plugins lol
@@DaCarnival haha, I have always hated avid as well.
I still favor Premiere but color grading in Resolve is second to none. The fusion is a mess in my opinion. After Effects is still my go to for graphics.
@@DaCarnival Not me. Premiere is slow and clunky and crashes all the time. Final Cut is waaaay better but I don't like how it creates and manages libraries and such. Resolve for me is the fastest . And it's completely free! How crazy is that.
Thanks for sourcing me, I appreciate it! Also, if you added more RGB to the PC you would of got 3x the performance. Great video!
Hahah! Glad you enjoyed it! Thank you.
Lol 🤣😂
😆
:-D :-D
The RGB makes it easier to download more Ram later down the line. Apple doesn't allow you to do so.
Considering the Mac Studio is roughly 10x smaller in volume, way more quiet, uses way less power and is about the same price... to go toe-to-toe with the 3090 PC performance-wise (and even beat it handily in several tests) is VERY impressive from a technological standpoint. Wow, just wow!
Same price? We must be living in different planets then. This config is about $3000.
Heck even a 3080 build would cost $2000 and will still be faster than the $5000 64 core studio mac.
same price .... lmao
@@srimasis thought in the video they said they were both $5,000. You must be on a planet where PC parts are selling for MSRP.
A simple pcpartpicker check will be enough to check that a core i9 with 3090 and 64gb ram costs about $3400 (inflated prices). Unfortunately the mods are deleting my previous comments with any pcpartpicker link that proves my point.
@@srimasis Didn't you watch the video? They mentioned that you would need to spend extra for things the PC doesn't have; like the faster ethernet port and thunderbolt. Anyways... this is all fairly padantic to my overall point... which was that the Mac Studio is an impressive advancement in computing technology... Geeez, you can't make ANY kind of declarative statement in Internet comments without some comic book store guy chiming in with his "actually..." opinion LOL.
The fact that this silent tiny box is even being compared to a giant water cooled gaming PC is incredible.
Exactly!
The point is prices are higher on that tinny box so wtf i pay extra fees for shit
@@rizkan1996 You say for much better performance when it comes to video and photo editing, 1/10 the size, no sound, more refined streamline software, and better build quality.
What's even crazier is most will be 100% satisfied by a $599 Mac Mini M2 outside of production.
@@SharkBoy87 ya for basic every day tasks it’s just as quick.
I’m sure the pc could be built for much cheaper even with the price of GPU cards being inflated, Also this video card is coming upto two years of age, so should be refreshed pretty soon with the 4090, be exciting how it fairs against it. Max have done an excellent job testing these, it’s a shame Apple have blocked any upgradability on the studio though.
This silver apple box can cost up to $10k, so you could get something like A40 instead of 3090 if you need it for very specific workloads. Apple box do be kinda fast and small but it's also hella expensive and becomes e-waste some time in the future, while you can replace everything in your PC overtime and resell it as you go so the actual cost of a PC is way lower and it's also more relevant over time.
In 2 years, the new apple studio 2 will be 5k again, but the 4090 upgrade will just be ~2k
It is march native, everything is compiled for M1... That is not available for Intel, never, neither linux, nor (obviously) windows compile for native arch. You can compile everything for march native in linux, but no one does it. Also Apple did make hardware division as fast as in libdivide though it is still worse than GMP as part of gcc compiler.
@@kizu4209 I kinda disagree with the concept that any of this doesn’t become e waste eventually - it’s just about how fast the parts are. Even if they’re getting sold off, they’re still becoming obsolescent even if out of sight. To be clear, I hate apples stubborn refusal to make basic things upgradable but this argument doesn’t make sense to me. The parts are… going somewhere?
Yeah not having end user upgradability at a machine aimed at/literally named after studio envornments is a crying shame.
These days, you really don't have to go to another channel to learn all you need about the Mac Studio - this channel just churns out all the content, we need in such detail. Proud to be a subscriber.
I’d also put Rene Ritchie into that category. Rene offers a level of nuance that nobody else does.
@@EpithetMusicTV true but I just can’t stand how scripted his videos feel
Sure if you want to look for bias opinion. Yeah, I rather look at multiple channels and make my own conclusion. Everyone knows this channel is heavily Apple bias. HEAVILY.
Aaand Luke Miani...
Lol more like Bias, it’s a toss up between Renee Ritchie, IJustine and Max on who is the biggest apple shill. Max did a video defending the Apple Stand like it was PR. Look at other channels and there take on comparing the Mac studio to PC, not so clear bias as max here.
Great video guys. As a 3D artist, I hope Apple will eventually add some ray-tracing hardware into their Silicon. Without them the nVidia cards are untouchable no matter how good Apple and developers optimise their 3D code.
Patience is key
1 year ago they added raytracing api for Metal and now they increased its performance in Metal 3 that will come out in macOS 13. They are moving this way, and while i'm not sure about M2 Pro, but M3 most likely will have ray tracing accelerators.
I know apple, they first make api, and when next cpu will come out, most apps will already be optimized for it with no additional code needed
@@untheo Cheers! I sincerely hope you're right.
They could have just compared it to an RTX 3070 and people would still have been impressed.
But no, they just had to go for the 3090.
Their marketing team is full of bluff.
@@catboy3471 It's unmatched by your own low standards and distorted reality from crapple.
@@catboy3471 it's a DESKTOP for gods sake, who cares how much juice the 3090 is sucking from the wall. Same goes for the m1 ultra it is used in a desktop environment which haa access to as much power as it needs. Consumers dont give a crap about effiiency.
@@catboy3471 get. it plugged, and M1 will be destroyed
i have seen some testing video between M1 ultra and 3090 where you can find that M1 ultra is using 1/5 of power of GTX but also the performance is 1/5 of GTX when we compare raw GPU performance.
so M1 is wasting the time as at the end of day the power drawn by both of them will be almost same but the performance will be much greater in GTX
second now GTX 3090 price on some countries has fallen drastically, you can build a new pc with 2*rtx 3090 with price tag around 5k dollar so if you compare it with dollar to dollar, there is now way that M1 ultra has any chance against 3090.
apple marketing team bluff so much
@@randomanimegalaxy6859 there is no GPU called GTX 3090.
I'm a video editor who went away from Mac about 8 years ago but I'm seriously considering making the switch back after seeing all these tests. Thanks for all your hard work!
Yeah you should bro
Make sure to research whether all your tools would work before going from Windows/Intel based Mac to Apple Silicon Mac. It's true that Apple Silicon is great in most of the cases displayed above, but there are way too many programs that either don't work at all, or have limited functionality, due to libraries not being updated etc. It's not a good feeling spending 5k on a machine only to discover your main tool doesn't work flawlessly yet.
Depending on which programs and plugins you use. There are many plugins that do not support m1 chips yet, if thats not a problem for you, switching to mac is great idea.
I'd also consider the cost of getting multiple GPUs for your pc vs the cost of switching to Mac, as well as all the software, peripherals, and everything else you'd need to get
Buying a mac for video editing has no benefits over a PC when you can do more on PC than a mac will ever do.
Apple used the 12900 for a reason: it's the wrong PC CPU for the job. You want to compare the Studio with a Ryzen, Threadripper, or Xeon, all of which can have similar or superior core counts to the Studio, whereas the 12900 has only 8 performance cores.
Threadripper absolutely destroys the M1 ultr
This whole comparison is false, from comparing programs benchmarks to PC parts, everything !
The 5950 doesnt have built in codec compiling and can actually slow down video editing. A ryzen is GOOD at doing almost everything, and the intel chip is GREAT as a workstation chip, maybe gaming, but falls short in areas where multi-core performance is needed. The m1 ultra seems to be a weird middle ground, and definitely should not be discounted due to Arm's infancy.
I dont think it would be fair to compare it to a threadripper or Xeon, because then you get into performance per watt and worrying about popping a breaker. (Not to mention price). (320w + 450w x2 for dual 3090 ti + other perifs gets you reaaaaal close to popping a breaker in a standard home office.) Not to mention the heat generated.
The only reason I say this is because I have a custom liquid cooled 5950 and a 3090, but I feel as though its short comings as a workstation (not to mention how shit windows 11 is) make the Mac studio more attractive to a very specific cliental. It would be nice to have a native 6k/5k displays and far less cables imo.
@@OzMediaOfficial popping a breaker? Sure, if you’re running a 2000 watt heater as well.
@@hanse81 Or perhaps rendering something with a 1500w power supply, a laptop, and around 4-5 monitors in total drawing power from the wall. That would average around 1800w right there assuming the PC isnt choking the PSU to the max.
Throw in a mini fridge or any small home office appliance for good measure and await the perfect storm.
Still scratching my head for what the target market is for this machine... the Pros and developers doing 3D, CAD and photo work left the ecosystem a while ago with the video guys following suite.
The big issue is that Apple left the so called big spender pros and developers on thier own after pulling Nvidia support... they weren't going to sit and wait, the damage is done and SJ would of fired TC and anyone involved.
As for the power advantage, the card has already been played and in the end its a physics issue for every design... higher clocks and more cores means more power.
Many who long ago left would happily return IF their current powerful machines get well and truly whupped - power and speed trumps all…
@@cartoonasaurus no because Apple left them with paper weights, how many photo and video design houses with Nvidia cards were basically abandoned without a care in the world.
SJ would of never allowed it to happen, you don't abandon the guys that pay top dollar 🙄 this is ok in the consumer land.
@@kleanthisgroutides7100 .
People are quick to forgive when they can complete their tedious tasks so very much quicker, so even though I have no doubt that Apple‘s disagreement with Nvidia did cause a lot of problems and was certainly disrespectful to a vast number of hard-working professionals, time moves on and people forgive, especially when forgiveness has the benefit of getting much more work done…
@@cartoonasaurus yes but the Mx is still an SoC, it's built with a compromise... your platform is fixed, every aspect is fixed.
I work as a graphic designer and I can see the Studio becoming a replacement for the iMac as our industry standard. I don't like it due to the repairability (currently-they might release a repair software tool so you can swap out SSD modules) and how a lot of companies will have to either shed their machines every few years or spend the maximum possible to futureproof the investment and have spares due to them not being user upgradable but the studio is pretty impressive.
This shows how much more performance we'd get with good optimization. See how Blender has a huge performance boost using the GPU power that well, I wonder why not pretty much every software does not do something similar. I am thinking for instance about Adobe, which don't seem to properly take advange of powerful GPUs.
True! Look at Affinity's software. They use GPUs way better and man, the performance is light years ahead of Adobe's graphic suites (like PS and Illustrator)
Blender Optix render uses RT cores on the Nvidia GPUs, which is a specificly designed ray tracing accelerator, thats why is so fast. Just like Apple's media engine made m1 ultra so fast in video editing on those apple optimized codec like prores. Both of those are not general compute unit, but special accelerator that need supported software.
At least you can upgrade your PC.With that Mac Studio once you decide what you want that is it ,no upgrade possibilities afterwards.
well depends what you want to upgrade. RAM sure you are right, CPU well how intel gives a f... about users they support the same socket for 2-3 years and that's it, and GPU well yes you can upgrade it on PC, but if you have an old CPU it will drag down your GPU.
This is a myth. You can upgrade an downgraded (wrong purchased) machine. In the end you pay more.
I had an Athlon XP, I didn’t managed to upgrade.
You need to replace motherboard, memory, cpu, vga, sometimes even psu. It’s like you change the all of the car and you keep the tyres.
@@korgmangeek wow athlon, that's way way back. AMD Ryzen cpu has serve 4 generation with the same motherboards. So people who bought the 1st gen Ryzen can now upgrade to the 4th generation Ryzen without switching motherboards. So essentially if you didn't buy the lowest end motherboards, you can upgrade 4 generation later without rebuilding everything. New cpu, new gpu and that's it.
@@teepan2388 and funny how memory and solid state drives for PC have always cost at least 1/2 of Apples prices? Apple the computer for the sycophant fawnbois that are paying on 3 iPhones at one time since they have to always have the latest.
@@teepan2388 the comparison here is with a dedicated GPU. The classic PC tower.
Nice info about Ryzen. I like those APU’s. My next computer I would like to be ARM based or Ryzen.
As someone who does a lot of GPU 3D rendering, I have never been so excited then so disappointed for a new Apple computer :(
In my experience, single core performance matters most, followed by GPU performance, then multicore. Apple’s next mission has to be to scale up the speed of the performance CPUs.
The M1 is based off A14 chip
The M2 is based off A15 chip
The a15 is 10% faster in single core so basically the next iteration should beat intel by a little bit and in multi core it will smoke intel
Iam doin a lot of CPu based 3D work and simulation. I need this multicore performance... Hopefully they are all switching more to gpu simulation and rendering
matters the most for what? as the classic saying on IT, depends what you do. Have you seen how the M1 crushes Intel on code compiling? if you play games you dont give a f.. about that, if you are a developer, you do.
@@seashellwanderers456 Intel will likely have a new lineup next year too, what if they do another of those 40% performance increases like they did with 11th vs 12th gen?
@@Razar244 they’d only do that if they need to catch up or leapfrog.
With most CPU being so close to each other in single core performance it’s going to be incremental upgrade for a while.
Apple should release an update to UNLOCK the capabilities of the Mac Studio.
Apple giving you any freedom? You gotta be dreamin
So, at the start of this I heard, “the PC is a computer and Apple makes a console.” So when new components are created the PC can gain performance in the future, where you have to buy a new Apple device (just like game consoles).
Apple will never have that many games due to requiring to use a standard that is only on their devices.
If you don’t want to truly own your device then Apple is good for you, but for those of us that need to be able to customize our computers for the task, then PCs are way better.
Also, I have yet to see the same level of ray tracing in games.
For anything that isn’t built into the M1 chip, Apple is not beating the PCs. When a better codec comes out and it is not in the M1 chip, then you have to buy a whole new computer and the PC could have a PCI card that could do that.
@@williamtopping thank you, I totally remember those ISA, then PCI, then AGP 1x, 2x, etc slots to then back to PCI with the Voodoo3 cards to settling on PCIe.
I’m always hearing about this “e-waste”, “planned obsolescence by not upgrading”, etc… yet in all the years of building PCs with friends the outcome has been: bunch of RAM sticks tossed around (because you want to increase the memory but match the speeds and channels pair count right? The older ones gotta go), PSUs tossed around (because they are either cheap and last a year or the new 500W GPU needs a beefier 1000W one), or tossed Motherboards (because the CPU slot changed yet once again), or Alpine-Ridge thunderbolt PCIe cards because the new motherboard only works with a Titan-Ridge (beyond annoying how to make thunderbolt ports + drivers work on PCs by the way)… the reusability is in practice quite precarious.
How do I know? I did it, stopped doing it but continue seeing my friends struggling and doing the exact same thing while losing countless hours juggling with the issues. Just look at that case, the size, the power draw and the amount of fans for Christ sake… then pay for the windows license, then office, etc
In my experience, along my family there are 2010 and 2013 MBP still ongoing, an iMac 2013 still ongoing, my mom has an iPhone 6S (7 years old), my young brother an iPhone X (5 years old) and an iPad Pro 11 (2018)… all of those that I have passed along and are still in use and working fine for what they need to do. I.e. they are definitively NOT on some garbage can in the city as ‘e-waste’.
@@alejmc Just remember, the PC can add an external GPU and the Apple devices can't. This isn't much of an argument for desktops, but in laptops, it could be a case of having full power at home (which is way more powerful than the M1 Ultra in most tasks) and long battery life on the road.
@@jfftck That’s such a wreck of an issue… I truly hope that eGPUs somehow make a comeback on the Mx SOCs. The reason for it not having it when all the previous Intel Macs had it is definitely nonsense or there might be a serious drawback that we haven’t been told about.
"then you have to buy a whole new computer and the PC could have a PCI card that could do that." - No, you can just connect it to the thunderbolt port
@@alejmc I also have a MBP 2010 15inch that’s still kicking. Battery degradation is there after 8 years but I swapped it out for a new one and it’s still going now. Best laptop I’ve ever purchased
You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the crazy lower power usage of the studio.
In the UK right now electricity prices are expensive, almost tripling in cost. The studio would easily save me a huge amount of money especially if I’m doing a lot of intensive work
I think sometimes people forget about power consumption as if it doesn’t make a difference, but it’s certainly something I am way more conscious of now that electricity is 35p / kWh!
That's crazy. What's the reason for the sudden surge in prices?
@@lamenamethefirstGovernment corruption.
Y’all doing some good work over there. It’s good to see other channels shout you and Luke Miani out over what tests and disassembly’s you guys do. Keep it up 👍
Don’t give Luke credit for the disassembly. He was only brave enough to do it after he watched max’s video.
Max, maybe a small mistake?
At the very beginning (0:16) you compare the MAC with the 3090, but your copy of the Apple slide shows 3060 TI (right bottom corner)
Which one is right? Thanks.
Editor showed the wrong slide. Apple used that one to compare to the M1 Max base GPU. The ultra they compared to RTX 3090. This PC definitely has 3090 as we showed 👍
Cool
@@MaxTechOfficial Thanks for clarifying!
@@MaxTechOfficial when can we watch mac studio base vs rtx 3060ti comparison? Waiting.
TL;DW:
If you use macOS software, buy the Studio.
If you game, buy the PC.
If you use GPU-heavy apps, buy the PC.
If you use CPU-heavy apps that have been optimized specifically for Apple Silicon, buy the Studio.
If you need raw power, buy the PC.
If you need efficiency, buy the Studio.
ProRes is a benefit of the Mac ecosystem, but in PC space there is now a move towards AV1+opus, the codecs supposedly next to be used by UA-cam and Netflix etc., not staying only on the ubiquituous x264/x265 video encoders... And here most new HW actually comes with decode blocks and some with encode blocks in the sillicon as well. Apple's media engine lacks accelerators for this codec. We'll see which one makes more sense in the grand scheme of things, ProRes or AV1, in the coming months/years ;)
@@PaulStoffregen Yeah, there's a valid point there... On the other hand, both are standards in video codecs used in the industry, though for slightly differing purposes and by different gear. The small-size-better-visual-quality AoMedia's mantra-based AV1 is to be used by the streaming platforms, and possibly in future it will be the de facto standard to generate files for them or to stream files from through respective dedicated apps or in future even web-interfaces. So while ProRes is for more lossless-like encoding for high qualities that you can get out of, say, a Pro iPhone and several pro cameras, the efficient AV1 with higher bitrates may become the better choice for small-time "pros" targeting different platforms that serve the content to the rest of the world. Since big studios/groups that would be more willing to prepare or work with content in ProRes might actually have a dedicated video churning really powerful box/cluster, Macs are possibly still going to be used by small-time/hobbyist "creators", so also targeting differing outputs/platforms. And you cannot forget that officially the highest quality modes in AV1 offer almost placebo-like quality with bitrate efficiency, let alone produce (nearly or exactly) lossless streams in other modes as well. But the majority rules tantrum prevails. After all, if majority of the streaming platforms switch to AV1 codec use and it even gets propagated in browser-served streaming, it might become more useful for home/SMB users to have it supported more efficiently than just through software computations. but I guess that's what maybe M2 or M3 chip variants will bring to the table as a PR-heralded must-have upgrade ;)
You can run ProRes on a PC no problem at all.
@@billB101 Sure you can, same as Apple products can do AV1, but neither comes with integrated ASICs/FPGAs for this specific purpose hardware acceleration respectively...
You guys are the only ones doing full in depth reviews of the m1 lineup. Everyone else is doing such surface level testing
Yeah, everyone benching Raider.
Or you have Linus Tech Tips who butcher all their Apple reviews. Watching Linus and gang try to work with Apple products reminds me of monkeys finding a monolith and throwing sticks and stones at it.
@@77dris exactly lol, it's just too biased
@@77dris they get money from affiliate links of those pc parts so that the Apple haters will buy using their links. If they make Apple looks good, they will make less money, it’s just business at the end.
@@pythonlol870 and this channel is hardcore apple fanboy
10:32 The same people that say Apple is cheating because they have their massive media engine to help in video editing workflows don't say anything about how the RTX series cards' RT cores also massively help accelerate their render times in Blender. All of these SoCs have non 'big core' accelerators and features that will help them gain more performance than the raw GPU or CPUs would otherwise allow in specific tasks.
I love how you always spill out the truth after everyone else creates reviews for new products. It shows that you only want to test products once they are stable in terms of software. Highly appreciate your honesty mate. Thank you!
All things considered, the Mac really isn‘t too far off… especially if you take into account all the power and cooling required on the Windows machine. They simply should have compared it to a 3070, would have been impressive enough imo. A coming up Mac Pro will most likely annihilate both machines.
If the software is optimised anyway
EXCUSES
I just hope its not crazy expensive like the last one
@@jimilogan473 ...... I hate to break it to you.... it's going to probably start at 8k lol
Sure the macpro will kill everything, but first it will kill your pockets real bad. Thise things would be super expensive and wont match price to performance ratio of PC. I mean, Mac Studio Ultra 64 core loses badly in price performance ratio AND MacPro will make it even worse.
almost a million subs? Man, I feel like you just started this channel not that long ago. Goes to show what hard work can do, thanks for all the great content guys!
Easy answer
Mac for Video editing, music production, coding
Desktop PC for gaming, 3D rendering, CAD workflow, and another engineering workflow
coding? what exactly you will code)))
@@maximloginov what's wrong with m1 ultra chipset? does it has any compatibility issue?
@@masx4813 no, just a question. Probably application for mac or iphone?
@@maximloginov i mean just for mac, not for an iPhone
@@masx4813 as a programmer for 15 years and head of programmers team i almost never seen mac programmer
Funny that my company issued me a mac studio with a carrying case... I was like, are you f**king serious?
6:43 A minute and 65 seconds 😂 the M1 Ultra broke time
Just me or didn't 0:22 show that they are comparing it to a 3060ti and not a 3090?
Either way for the price they may as well compare it to a 3090.
It clearly says 3090 in the bottom. plus 3060 ti consume 150 less watts vs, 3090, so the chart wouldn't had made sense
@@McCarthy880 It was acc at 0:18 but it now got blurred by the guy
It’s amazing how it can come so close to a PC so much bigger and use less power, like it’s insane! Would love to see a mini-pc set up comparison too to see if the pc was just as small and compact how that’d effect scores. I love my 3090 but man that card runs so hot during the summer
Welcome to ARM (upgraded since all in one chip) vs x86
video games are overrated sell your 3090 and enjoy watching Netflix and editing videos on your mac
@@azexy21 sell whatever device you typed that comment on lol
@@coincoin4843 Idk, not being able to upgrade the Studio seems pretty awful. RTX 4000, RX 7000 and Ryzen 7000 are round the corner, so i doubt whatever leads the ARM chips hold will last any longer. And oh yeah lets see how the competition stacks up since most of the gains the M1 chips have is from them being on TSMC 5nm. Further more, if rumors and speculations are true the AMD RDNA 3 cards could be 2.5 times faster than their current top end, meaning absolutely crushing the Ultra's GPU.
The media engine accelerators are honestly the only hardware that may not be beaten though. I don't see AMD Radeon planning to bring media encoders to their GPUs anytime soon, while Nvidea will probably be too bothered trying to compete in other areas of the market to do anything with Nvenc.
What i really want though, is for next gen threadrippers to drop. Last time AMD did that they wiped the floor completely. A 6990X would reach a whole new level of compute I doubt even Intel would be able to match.
@@whitehavencpu6813 search a bit about ARM and SoC and come back plz
The ProRes comparisons are kind of cap because no one is buying these computers to sit down and make proxies to achieve faster render times. I don’t know any camera that actually shoots prores except the iPhone.. so technically speaking you’d have to make proxies to be able to achieve those render times in the first place. And depending on the amount of clips you would be transcoding would kind of defeat the purpose of making the proxies in the first place all being said that the footage that was shot is 4K 4:2:2 10 Bit and lower since the tests show that the playback speeds on both machines are perfect.. Dont get me wrong I don’t hate Max or Apple, I just think the test is kind of cap when using a codec that was specifically designed for one companies product that you can’t even get without transcoding the media to begin with.. 😅
When the RTX 4090 comes out I'd love to see another one of these if possible
I’m more interested in seeing the comparison with RTX 7090.
The macpro is on his way
@@Make-Asylums-Great-Again RX 7900?
14900k more like it. The 12900k is basicly a 10nm node performing around a as good as a 7nm one. The M1 is a 5nm node... Imagine if they both were actual 5nm. Intel would be way up above. And considering the frontier of miniaturization is going to hault due to the laws of physics, it might look like the TSMC-based chip designers might loose their current main advantage over intel at some point as well.
@@oes2546 there's no imagine. i like to stay in reality
I hope apple adds special processors to their M2 chips to speed up 3D rendering because that is definitely a weak point.
thats called a graphics card
@@RRKS_TF lol
It is a bit unfair for the PC for few reasons:
- The 12900K is not the most power efficient x86 CPU. The 5950x is much more efficient.
- The price tag of $4000 for a PC doesn't add much more performance. You could have a $2500 PC with the same performance.
- The Mac is not upgradeable independently. Which means that if we only care about CPU the price tag for the PC could be as little as $1000.
- Other benchmarks like PCmark show a much bigger performance gap in favour of the PC.
Your first point is only true under full load, and doesn't take into account getting tasks completed faster. While an all core max load will have the 12900k using more power, most normal light-medium workloads, which most PCs will spend most of their life performing. The 12900k can use less power, even more so if you take time to complete into account.
5950x is also going for cheap now. For ≈2k you could build a 3090 with a 5950x
The 5950x still gets smoked.
A $2500 PC would not have the same performance (and you would then compare it to a M1 Studio max for less than that price).
The PC CPU is not that great, even Alder Lake and the only thing that saves the PC performance is the 3090 GPU by Nvidia. Put in a cheap GPU and it would get smoked. Also keep in mind the Mac is an integrated GPU.
Nobody upgrades PCs anymore. I built PCs for a decade and would just buy a new PC when new tech came out (generally new CPUs and GPUs needed new motherboard, memory, PSU etc anyway). As a few UA-camrs have pointed out lately, they can't remember the last time they upgraded just parts in a PC. Also, PCs become worthless after a couple years while Macs retain resale for up to a decade (not to mention they are far more reliable and last way longer).
Who cares about benchmarks, especially like PCmark which (as it's name states) are optimized for Windows... real world performance is all that matters and in everything outside of gaming and 3D rendering, the Mac destroys this $5000 PC.
The fact that almost all of the software being used to compare the two (outside of Final Cut and Xcode) is written for Windows PC, and has to be translated in some way for the Mac, now that is UNFAIR. And yet even still the Mac still beats the PC in most areas.
@@77dris conformation bias is a hell of a drug with these so called tests LOL
@@77dris The 5950x literally matches it's performance the only difference is power. However unless your electric is through the roof the cost difference between the 2 builds offsets that.
We have to keep in mind that apple has done something which is a leap in tech. Look at the size of those custom pcs compared to mac.
In the next years addition of proper own dedicated gpus will be relatively easy for apple.
I don’t think intel can catch up now apple has beat them just like a15 bionic chips vs snapdragon
Maybe for some space is a HUGE factor, for me, it ain't. And, considering that the i9 12900K, RTX 3090 PC System actually costs $800 less for the exact same storage and RAM (even with the Bloated Graphics Card Cost), and performs significantly better, I will take the RTX 3090 any day of the Year. Imagine what will happen if you could actually buy the RTX3090 at MSRP, It would blow the Apple out of the Game.
Performs significantly better at gaming and 3D work, yes. If you do video, photos or coding, the Mac is often significantly better. Thing is that Apple has overtaken Intel handily, but Nvidia still reigns supreme in the GPU game. I hope that's where Apple intend to gain ground with the M2.
Wait a couple months, cause the new ryzen chips about to come out, things for sure will heat up.
@@DaCarnival Well, 12900K performs better in Single core.... It's in this video? WTF are you talking about?
Yes, at 4-5 times the wattage, the latest Intel chip has something like 6-7% performance over the 18 month old M1 single core performance. This fall, with M2, Apple will again enjoy a year+ of best single core. Hell, even if they just let the older architecture use more power, they would crush Intel. But apple makes chips that are meant to run on battery (phones, tablets, laptops) so their desktop chips are a bit of an afterthought - and still they trade blows with the latest Intel has to offer.
Yea hardware doesn't scale quite like you imagine. Its not like you can simply take the wattage ratio and multiply that to the performance difference. The Apple single core performance is already near the limit based on the process and voltage they're running at. Most improvements will more likely be coming from TSMC process improvements.
10:45 isn't fair cuz H.256 encoding is tailor-cut towards MacOS and its hardware, it'd have been a fair test if both of them were encoded on H.264 since both the cards support it. NVIDIA is just rolling out drivers to optimize H.265 encoding.
I’m actually very impressed with what Apple has done with the M1 Ultra in the Mac Studio working with less . For something that small to go up against a Goliath of a machine like the PC is incredible and actually foreshadows the amazing things Apple is going to be doing in the future with their chips and devices. I am absolutely shocked by M1 Ultra🤯🤯
Never been just an apple fan boy but if apple silicon doesn't entice you, you just aren't a real nerd.
Maybe for You space is a HUGE factor, for me it ain't. And, considering that the i9 12900K, RTX 3090 PC System actually costs $800 less for the exact same storage and RAM, and performs significantly better, I will take the RTX 3090 any day of the Year.
I’m right there with you. When games and programs will be natively (or just better) supported on Apple chips I’m buying one so I can ditch my PC.
@@yourself88xbl huh apple silicone hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
@@topfamous297 Space means nothing. You dont need a corsair 1000D to host a 3090. Look at the channel OptimumTech. Guy has 5950x + 3090s watercooled in 15-20 liters cases
This was legitimately the best video about this device on UA-cam. Bravo.
I agree! I see all these terrible flawed reviews (like Linus Tech Tips which is horrendous) and wait for Max Tech to clear up the confusion.
Imagine if the Mac Studio was larger and allowed for more thermal performance…oh wait I guess we’ll have to wait for the new Mac Pro. Great review and testing.
Which I heard they will stitch 4 M1 max (or M2 max) chips together. So if the ultra can compete in some areas with a RTX 3090, imagine what doubling the Ultra would do. Honesty could beat out the new RTX 4090 when it comes out.
@@AdamaxEP If it scales perfectly that is. Something that tends to be very difficult in practice.
But it's not purely a thermal issue, as the Mac Studio Ultra never seems to go above 60°celcius for all these tests. It feels like Apple is - once again - putting a premium on quiet running and stability instead of raw performance. I hope they gradually let the Ultra off the leash via OS updates as it ages and they get more experience with where and when it can be pushed.
It is not a temperature problem, Apple´s hardware can´t compete with x86, put your feet on the ground...
@@eprpop Yeah, i like how people Argue It has the potential to compete but it's not utilizing the full potential of the GPU beacuse of thermal/wattage limitations due to bad Software encoding Just beacuse of One simple Aztech Benchmark they saw where the M1 ultra was almost eavening out the 3090, when in Truth the 3090 had downscaled wattage in this too if you search on the internet that it can actually score around 600-700+ FPS in that Benchmark on PCs that actually use the full potential off the Card.
Even if you argue M1 Ultra Is badly optimized, it's still running at lower FPS against a 3090 using minimal wattage, It doesn't come close to ampere or RDNA 2 even at full throttle and optimiziation, and the Mac Pro with 4 M1 dies Will be even worse, since It Will have a huge NUMA penalty, due to not having a PCIe Die solution to boost the Speed of Objective C's clock Cycles interconnection like other gaming powerhouse GPUs have, and also due to the lack of RT hardware accellerated, so yeah.
Even my GTX 1060 6GB using a 7700K at 1440P in that test can achieve in-between 100 and 200 FPS LMAO, a 3090 at least has 5-6 times the FPS of the 1060, not Just 2 times and a half.
Fun fact, even Snapdragon's architecture Is superior, Apple actually Is more powerful nowdays cause they ripped Qualcomm off their PA and Intrinsity architecture ISA which Evolved from that which were once AMD's ATI Radeon Graphics card used even on popular consoles like PS3 and PS4(hence the synonym "Adreno"), and stole their engineers in Orlando, Now Qualcomm Is coming back on track but oh well, Chip shortage, so for now they're Just gonna Stick with the Razer handheld instead of spending Money over an expansive desktop gaming GPU and CPU set.
"WHICH ONE WASTES A SHITLOAD OF POWER? MAC OR PC?" 😂 I.. I think I might know this one!
Since Apple says the Mac Studio is the replacent for the 27” iMac I would like you to compare them. Since the high end iMac and the base model Mac Studio are closest in price I think that would be a fair comparison.
These videos showing the complexity of compering different pc systems are great. This shows a growing maturity in the computer community which is now realising that the difference between Macs and PCs is down to optimisation, which is extremely difficult with PCs as there are an infinite number of combinations of components that need to be considered. Likewise, the two different systems work for different constituencies and so, your choice of computer should be based upon what you intended to use the computer for and not just the looks. Great work Max and the team love your content.
I wonder what is the actual running cost impact of the M1 vs intel… the entire power per watt thing. How much would a dev or a studio save in power costs over a month?
that is a question many people will ask in the coming years, the price of electricity will going up so fast and so high.. and when you work daily 10hrs on a computer that has 370W max (and mostly takes under 100W), its quite a difference from the electricity guzzling huge pc with 1000W.. even more so in studios (pun intended), where are 5-10 computers running all day..
I don’t have the maths to prove it, but it’s not hard to imagine that the cost savings would be significant for a medium to large operation doing creative work. Imagine that you have 100 developers and half a Mac Studio. Those 50 developers using the Macs to do the same tasks would use just a fraction of the electricity. With that kind of savings and given the setups are comparable price, you could reinvest that saved money in hiring more developers or putting it in the bank vs the power company.
@@ericpmoss Or in the winter, it doesn't matter. Where I'm from all heating is done by electricity anyways, so it doesn't matter if it's a desktop or an electric space heater putting out the heat ;) But I guess in many places it is either so warm that people use an AC, or heating is gas-based. So my case is probably the rarer one.
This 100% depends on the workflow, software, and studio setup. You cant just completely switch up systems in most production environments and maintain the same level of productivity. The likelihood of and studio invested in one platform or the other switching platforms to save a few pennies on the power bill is ZERO when they have far more important things to worry about.
@@DuckMan77 but how about some smaller studios looking to switch from Mac Pro to mac studio or MacBook pros. For the big studios I see cost of electric being a smallerfactor
But I wonder would it be a criteria for Max Tech or other tec YT studios
As a programmer, you are wrong about the Mac being the way to go for code. I have an M1 Pro MB and Sure performance is good, but compatibility is still pretty bad. So much still requires tons of workarounds completely negating any performance gains.
I have the m1 max base mode of the max studio and it’s a editing beast. Smokes my 3070ti and Ryzen 5900x.
5900x? Bullshit. 10 core vs 12core and you are saying amd lost? Lol
@@LosPollosHermanos. ??? Interesting comment. Did you sleep the whole last year when everybody compared the M1 Max against other CPUs/GPUs for editing?
@@LosPollosHermanos. He is talking about the video editing performance, not just the CPU performance-so the video encoders/decoders and the GPU also play a significant role
Wait your 3070ti and R5900x got smokes, don’t play with fire.
M1 max CPU has little to do with that performance. Its the on-board video chips that make it faster. CPU to CPU, the M1 Max would be inferior. If you put those video chips on an AMD platform, it it would also smoke the M1 Max. That, however, does not exist, so for all intents and purposes, in terms of video editing and only video editing, the M1 chip is much better. For 3D work and heavy VFX, Mac products are unfortunately worthless at this point in time.
I basically came to a conclusion a while back; I buy both PCs and Macs. I use PCs for gaming such as Microsoft Flight Simulator, I use Macs for everything else such as FCPro and Capture One, and Adobe CC.
so what’s the conclusion lol
Gaming.. PC
Works.. MAC
Use BOTH
Interesting thing is that my older MacBook plays MSFS 2020 very well at medium settings, and I'm not a hardcore simmer or whatever so I don't care much. I only need this one since I use it for mostly school and work.
If you are buying a PC for gaming then for what Mac, the PC will serve you with all the things you need with less investment.
Man I wish I had both. The PC for high end gaming, 3D work and color grading. The Mac Studio for video and photo editing and overall Macintosh clean and snappy experience!
The M1 Ultra performs much better in Resolve with the 3090RTX with as many nodes as you want. Only thing that is slower is spatial noise reduction. Temporal Noise Reduction is just as fast and has better results anyway. Neat Video even performs better than on the RXT3090 and so do other OFX plugins such as Dehancer.
Speedwarp/Optical Flow is also comparably fast on both systems.
What is the reason for a pc, customization and better warranties. If Apple was so good why does it only give its products 12 months warranty, where a cpu, motherboard, ssd gets 3-5 years and some components 10 years. A gpu has a 3 year warranty, not apple care, from new they rate them as being good enough for 3 years. Apple clearly dont think theyre products match up in this way. Apple has a great format with M1 but thats it. Its servicable by them where they will likely tell you that if it has a problem the price is astronomical because of the way they design it, so better just buy new. This is the only reason apple doesnt have full market capture like Amazon.
Awesome testing! Only thing of interest left would be the power consumption compared for the same tasks :) Cause Apple promoted the low power usage of their M1 stuff
@yourleftnut1 Because over the course of several years the costs add up.
The fact that its uses less than a third of power, runs silent and you can carry it in your backpack to anywhere makes it a huge win for Apple. I am hugely impressed with machine!
I really REALLY hope future Apple Silicon includes FFH for ray tracing or BVH tree building so that it can specifically accelerate 3D rendering software. You just can’t compete with Nvidia on that front these days.
True. Apple has focused on media acceleration for video (where it spanks Nvidia/Intel) instead of acceleration for 3D. That may change.
290 in a speedometer 2.0 test is impressive. My custom 10th gen i9 w/64GB and a 3080 Ti pulls a 182, but my MacBook Pro 16 w/M1 Max and 64GB got a 298
Be great to revisit this in six months to see where all the software is. I currently live in After Effects, Cinema 4D and learning Davinci Fusion, and After Effects is still not Apple silicon native. So staying with my 2017 iMac Pro for now
I'm also in AE and hoping the software updates in time for my Studio to arrive (due in May). The beta build of AE supposedly supports M1 but obviously that comes with other trade-offs like stability and compatibility which is really not great for a professional workflow!
Such a pain that Adobe is taking so long to update their software considering they've already had 18 months!
I love how the Mac studio is as big as the pcs power supply! 😂
Apple exaggerated those charts drastically! The studio is basically ideal for foto, video, and audio production and editing. That’s what it’s made for and that’s what it’s great at. Nothing else. It’s a task focused computer.
You forgot programming. So it’s best for everything serious. It only “loses to games. No native binaries.
As always PC’s are good gaming consoles.
@@korgmangeek i thank the gods that apple doesn't have monopoly & lead in having most games becoz if it was up to apple, there would be no modding, no customization, literally nothing what an open source users prefer. Windows supports millions of Hardware devices & still gets most things done while apple has closed eco system so its hardware always has the advantage of optimization in programs. I bet apple can't beat windows if it starts supporting millions of hardware devices. And if you look at the cost of apple hardware then there really isn't any value for money
@@snake2106 my message is very clear. M1 is better for programming. In fact it’s better even for gaming. The problem is the gaming tradition. Gamers prefer windows for gaming even from gaming consoles. Funny thing that gamers call Apple users as sheeps :-)
Funny thing you compare a closed system (windows, Intel, amd, nvidia) with another closed system.
Well, I use Linux, so I don’t get your point.
Thank god there is Linux and my 2008 computer works like new. Is not supported by the closed system of windows.
@@korgmangeek and my message is also very clear, does apple supports millions of hardware devices ? Does ios supports lots of phone hardware like android does ? All these things aside apple has even ditched backwards compatibility completely. Apple is not better at gaming, don't know from where apple fanboys like you make these absurd claims
@@snake2106 your answer is out of context. I informed about the fact that M1 is faster for programming (compiling) and you state drivers (?) and windows (?).
I don’t have time to debunk your myths. Your compare two closed systems.
More facts for you:
1. Linux is better for drivers (even more hardware support). I have several hardware that works with Linux but not with windows.
2. Microsoft does not write drivers, Apple write (sometimes). You don’t know that several devices also work with iOS and MacOS?
Not a single benchmark matters, I can do whatever I want on the PC. I could do that too on the pre Mac silicone even running on Mac OS. Now I can't do shit on the Mac eco. I'll stick to pc this time around, my 4 macs I have when they die they die i'm not going back.
I’d like to see Apple invest in more dedicated video encoders and decoders on the next gen chips. This is a big part of the m series video editing performance, as well as overall efficiency. Imagine dual or quad dedicated encoders/decoders covering every major video format.
Encoders and decoders are fine, apple need to improve their raw gpu performance. My m1 pro can handle simple edit and color grading 4k prores video very easily and faster than my 3080 desktop. But as soon as I add any GPU intensive effects like resolve edge sharpen and denoise, it start to lag badly and perform way worse than my 3080 PC.
@@qiyuxuan9437 agreed, if they can manage to increase their gpu performance without sacrificing too much efficiency, along with adding more encoder and decoders (and native format support) this would help a lot.
unrelated to video but its my birthday today any no one guy has congratulated me i just turned 16. Good video tho it makes me happy!
Happy birthday! :)
My takeaway. IF every program and game could utilise all hardware in both desktops they’re basically equally good at the same price. So the main issue is that Apple needs to convince developers to make their programs and games natively supported on Apple. When that happens it’s all about what OS you prefer and if things like power consumption, portability and so on matters to you.
When Apple used Intel, it couldn’t (or didn’t) convince devs to make games for macOS. No hope for gaming on Apple Silicons. They aren’t meant for gaming. Intel still has an edge for 3D and CADs stuffs. This is where Apple need improvement. :D
The new MAC is amazing, but with these tests you also have to remember, that apple played their cards incredibly smart by putting in the media engines and all in all having compiled software for exactly silicon, which definatly goves it the upper hand in many parts. A PC doesn't have this kind of speciality and has to run basically everything on anything. Now athe M1 Ultra is still an amazing product and more competition is always phenomenal for the consumer.
You also have to take into account the wattage and heat!!! I know that the Mac is specialised, but if that's what you do, then it's a good system... And as you said, it can only be a good thing for the consumer, as it will lead to a new hardware WAR!!! Lower pricing and/or better hardware!!!
I think apple said more powerful at the same(equal) power use. Same power draw, i think everyone is missing this point and it is important 🙏🧑🏾💻
especially since they've shown with the ultra that they can also scale it. Wondering what kind of a monster the new Mac Pro will be
@@severaux682 2x ultra? But keep in mind, single core performance is same for all M1 chips, so that might be unchanged even in Mac Pro.
what are you talking about? just look at their chart. It says the same relative performance with 200 Watts less power consumption.
@@helloukw true, but since these multicore chips scale so well, i expect to see less singlecore applications, since they won't be able to compete with optimized multicore applications. However, that may take a few years.
I think the answer here is if you are a Mac fanboy, go for the Mac, if you are a PC fanboy go get your PC, if you want to do 3d render, then get the PC .thanks for the review!!!
Great video but I love to see a power usage (at the wall plug) comparison of the two systems. Using something like a kill a watt meter.
I would love to see that too.
Unfortunately, in real case scenario for software engineering, M1 dissapointed. I have MBP with M1 Pro, play with docker a lot, golang & javascript microservices, backend development services such RDBMS / NoSQL, messaging service, streaming service, the performance isn't great.
Don't get me wrong, my expectation really high so I go with MBP. But I feel like it's not ready for development workstation for now. At least for my workflow. Simple things like seed data to database from shell script in docker container really slow, even slower than my low end Ryzen 5 2400G. Keep in mind, all my containers running ARM version. Have tried podman as well instead docker, but it's not help.
The hardware is awesome, it's like dream gadget for everyone. Powerful but insanely efficient. I don't regret get the MBP, because I still can do many things and get all the benefits but it holds me to use it as daily driver as few my projects cannot run very well on there. Hopefully, it will change in near future.
how is it for virtualization? You could run a x86 (or arm) linux vm and try running your containers there. I think it might have to do with docker desktop if you use that, normal docker might be faster than that. But anyway I have to agree to you, apple imagines how you should use a computer and if you fit into that, great, but all other use cases just get ignored. If you use your computer beyond watching netflix or using siri to intelligently decide which word document to write on next, you are left with weird workarounds to things. I have a dell xps 9510 and I have to say I am very happy, some trackpad issues like everyone has but the performance is great coming from five years old hardware. For you, a developer who is also into devops, I think macos is not perfect (yet?). But really, try virtualization, it might be better with that.
Yes. Finally! Good comparison. With this two at almost the same price. I think the winner part for mac studio is its size. 😁
Yes size and degine
@@Generallee85 not much. mac cant play games smoothly as windows does. PC have both.. to me basically PC wins
The Mac Studio is garbage for the price. Apple used to be a bit more in price but there was value in that you could run windows, upgrade hard drives, ram etc while still having the pleasure of OSX. With all of that gone you're left with the same premium price for an economy class experience. 512gb on a 'pro' machine as a base storage option is pathetic. They even try to charge you an extra $300 just for a keyboard and track pad. After 20yrs with Apple - I'm done at this point and heading back to windows.
Great video. I am so glad your channel exists! Because PC’s dominate the market, many channels cherry pick test to make Apple look less capable to viewers. Your channel helps people whose jobs depend on honest and accurate information.
Mac and iphones repair cost is too high i will suggest people to buy windows if u are not rich
I ordered an M1 Ultra Studio, but damn I’m looking forward to what Apple comes out with for the Mac Pro. 👍🏻
Bad luck if you recently bought a Mac Pro - the left hand doesn't speak to the right.
I like the thoroughness of your reviews, but you are too biased towards Apple. It's hard to get through these comparisons videos b/c you always go in with hard favoring Mac/Apple.
My 2022 17' Razer with the i9, 3080ti and 4k screen did the PartyTug in 3.58 seconds and the Classroom in 38.15 seconds. Both of these machines are impressive but I'm more impressed with my laptop for 3D artwork.
Now try it unplugged ;)
hoping the Mac Studio can play all AAA games in the near future. it overkilled PC but no contents for gaming and if next generation is Mac Studio Pro, it will overkill everything but for gamers, it means nothing.
Come on Apple! Pay these companies to optimize their software to your M1 chips. They can't just sit and wait for Blender or others to do it for them, they have to go after these companies, or else there is no point on making the most advanced machines and not using their full power.
I think Apple is working with the blender developers, donating resources and actually lending people to work on code. I don’t know the whole story, I have only heard bits of info.
What needs to happen is the customers that were sold on the subscription model that would “ensure good updates and ongoing support” should be hounding the companies where optimization and performance is still trash. I mainly point this at Adobe and that is why I use Affinity graphic software. But Adobe isn’t the only perpetrator.
Don't forget that this 5000$ PC is destroying your 15000$ Mac Pro in every single way :D
if you upgrade the mac pro (yes its upgradable) then sure it’ll destroy more pcs. But i agree with ur point but it all comes to r&d of custom and amd parts used
Appreciate these objective and thorough comparisons. Looking forward to seeing something comparing the Max and Ultra Studio models.
How does the base Mac studio (M1 Max) compare to the M1 Ultra?
Great video and insights guys. Just goes to show how important it is to look beyond the benchmarks and consider which system best fits your actual workflow.
Thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed it!
I already have a VP3881 ViewSonic Monitor, but I'm struggling to buy:
1. Macbook M1 Max 10-Core CPU/32-Core GPU with 64Gb RAM- 4TB SSD [$4,899.00]
2. Or Mac Studio Ultra 20-Core CPU/48-Core GPU with 64Gb RAM - 4TB SSD [$4,999.00]
I don't know what to buy among them. One is portable and has everything. One is semi-portable and needs a monitor and a power/battery when there are load sheddings/power outage. What do you suggest me to do please?
Considering the Mac Studio is using roughly a quarter of the power of the PC and is trading blows in some tasks is really impressive.
but pc consumes lesser power on sleep mode
@@lalnunpuiafanai9479 lol
Atleast i have the freedom of doing what i want with my pc.
With a mac/iphone i don't feel like i actually own the device.
One thing to consider here is that the tasks that the Mac Studio excels at are usually things it has dedicated hardware/chips for (video and image editing in particular) which many x86 based systems dont have. I would have to question the Firefox compile times as those dont look right for the 12900k, if they system wasnt limited on RAM it should be closer to 10min on the compile time, this also begs the question of was the M1 compiling the same exact code base? Is the M1 target faster to compile than the x86 target? Very few details are given on the x86 system or how the tests and their environments have been controlled. Like how much RAM, how much and what type of storage, etc. These tests arent defining the variables so people can accurately determine which system fits their needs. If you dont detail exactly what and how so tests could in theory be accurately reproduced your information almost becomes useless for either platform. Last thing I'd like to say is that the topic of the M1 getting crushed in Compute workloads isnt because lacking utilization but the 3090 being a compute beast, the M1 is fine but in raw compute performance only Quadro series will thrash a 3090 and if anyone ever expected it to match that 300+ watt beast thats just silly.
Not even close, amazing performance! To think this is the first ever version of this chip, mind bending!
Uh what? This is like the 4th or 5th version of the chip lmao. And yes not even close, the RTX destroys it in every benchmark.
When I bought M1 Mac mini low power consumption along with portability was one major consideration.
I seperated my concern and found the best solution. Gaming on PS4 and for all non gaming needs Mac mini m1
I'll choose efficiency, 1000 watts or more power supplies are an heresy...
"Needing a more powerful computer isn't relative to everyone. But having more efficiency and less power consumption is." - ColdFusion
my 5950x gets a higher cinebench than both, and uses alot less power than the intel. But the mac is impressive
Really can’t thank you enough for this quality testing,This is an insane test!!!🔥🔥🔥🙂,Keep up the awesome content,I really appreciate your dedication and efforts!!!!!.The Mac studio really is powerful,However the custom Pc is amazing as well beating out the M1 ultra in so many tests,This competition really is amazing to see!!!.Thanks so much for your quality tests!!.
I wonder how much is the 3090 video card, cpu, mobo and the rest of the components cost. Will it go 6k?
We all know a it is cheaper and you get more power when you build a PC, but it runs on Windows, and Windows sucks. And come on, this little box is super powerful and kind of brings to shame a few PCs, I mean, everything runs on one chip.
Thank you for these in-depth comparisons. Hopefully you’ll have the time to review the results once some of these benchmarking programs are optimized for the ultra chip. One request I’ve been meaning to ask for a while: can you please add HandBreak to the CPU tests? A significant portion of the video profession uses this shareware program to get high quality h264 yet somehow makes much smaller file sizes than FCP makes. And it has builds for all platforms. My 2013 8core MacPro is slightly slower than my M1Max 16” so I think a number of people would be interested in seeing numbers.
Personally I would also like to see another CPU only program’s results but DCP-O-Matic is such a specialized video export program (it’s only for cinema servers), I wouldn’t expect anyone to bother with it.
You should do this test again when AMD releases ZEN4. But by that time even the Mac Pro will probably be out. Amazing times ahead. Literally an arms race between Apple, AMD, Nvidia, and Intel. What a time to be alive.
M2 arm chip is where the game will be
@@seashellwanderers456 Depends what the competition comes up with. Can't imagine AMD or Nvidia will sit idly by at all.
@@billB101 research takes years though it’s not like they can stop their current chip and change all the designs.
I think big companies understand that some competition is needed and they can’t keep releasing hardware that are 100% more powerful each iterations.
It’s amazing what a thin chip can do though. The energy saving from these next gen chips is what should be pushed forward.
You’re talking about 8kw of energy saved per 24h use, 3300kw saved per year per computer if the computer is working constantly. In my country that’s a saving of $788 per year and that cost keeps going up 2-3% per year
Crypto mining will become much cheaper to run and greener for example.
@@seashellwanderers456 I doubt it's going to take years for the competition to catch up here. Swings and roundabouts and all that.
good video as always but Ive notice that when Apple doesn't do good on something you guys always have an excuse to defended
What we aren't being told is what drivers were being used with the RTX 3090, since there are two: Game Ready and Studio.
The Mac Studio is optimised for Studio tasks, however the RTX 3090 can be optimised as well by installing Studio drivers. Please redo this test otherwise I would consider it bias.
Awesome video, cheers guys! I think Apple is doing so fantastically with the new Mac lineup. Let's not forget this is still within the transition phase so it is expected that software ecosystem would hinder a bit in terms of unleashing the full potential of M series power. I reckon that in a couple of years when many software vendors roll out their next version productivity software, the ecosystem would improve greatly and utilise much better of Apple's M1 and future M2 series chips. Intel, AMD and all other chip makers would fear, and should.
Apple builds their computers for video editing. The PC is balanced. If want gaming, get a PC. I you want to be able to do both, get a PC. If you are a creative, get an Apple.
Apple is lucky to have Software created specifically for their hardware, Am sure if Amd and Intel works that out, it’s gonna be a fair comparison
the reality is that amd and intel cant do that
i feel this channel is strongly biased for the apple silicone. if the apple silicone gets beaten the crap out there is always an excuse. the aztec ruins is not the real gaming performance AT ALL. games are not written for apple silicone so they will run like crap! this is the reality now! i dont say this will not change but if the apple silicone is not used all the way and the graphics are kinda software throttled this is also the reality now. we will not know why is it throttled maybe there are some minor issuies maybe they are massive. so please dont paint a picture that is based on future performance that we maybe can assume. the gpu section gets beaten the crap out by the 3090.
but since you are active video editors i can totally understand your excitement xD