Roundtable is Toxic: The ToonKriticY2K Situation
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2018
- Like it or not, the ToonKriticY2K issue goes deeper than just one individual. It's time the community had a good look at itself.
Thoughts go out to all the victims.
Dulcet Tone: / redemption2
Twitter: / katcantcope
Background art by
TeaganLouise: teaganlouise.deviantart.com/a...
If ToonKriticY2K was working or volunteerining with children he would need a police check or working with children's check*. He wouldn't be allowed to take children home. He wouldn't be allowed to touch those children unless it was medically necessary or the parents were not there.
Instead, because this is a show for younger people he had unfettered access to victims and was able to use his position as a Big Name Fan to silence them.
The My Little Pony fandom- or any fandom about media that is aimed at children- needs to hold its members to a higher level of conduct than in other fandoms aimed at adults because it is more likely to contain children younger than 18yo.
That's actually a very good point. It's ironic, and downright absurd, that a My Little Pony convention should not be a safe or appropriate place for children
Why is so hard to understand. If you don't want people to assume your community is a bunch of creeps... then you have to do something about the creeps in your community.
Indeed, too many are thinking superficially, about what this will do to the "image" of the fandom and the "stereotypes", when what we need to be doing is looking inwards and questioning what the community is actually like first
Agreed though the only real problem in saying that and trying to view this as you is even before all this people have always labeled teenagers and adults who watch cartoons that are targeted for younger viewers as something must be majorly wrong with anyone who watchs cartoons below your age range . But then add the brony fandom was getting hate from day one when it became known adults enjoy the show and even has adult males being fans yeah....I can see why people would fear to admit there was even one black sheep in the mix when it will allow all the people who go on fallacy based views of '' We got one that means they all are like that''.
Not trying to justify what the group did just saying I can see the logic and why they likily hadn't consciously realized what was going on till it was too late from the fact they hated to believe both a friend of theirs and someone in a fandom that gets such hate needlessly is a monster, that said monster can justify alot of stuff for several people who are looking for any reason to demonize something from a biased mindset.
Left4Cake - you mean actually calling in the authorities when things come to light, like it was done the moment people besides the victims learned what happened?
Or do you have some magical solution to look inside everybodies head? You can't get rid of problems you don't know of. Am I right?
First point is true - you can't involve police, unless a crime is comitted.
That's the sad thing about living in a civil society. You can technically become a victim without the chance to stop the offender in a legal way.
Cheating isn't considered a crime - but that for a good reason. Just imagine the hot mess you had, if that was the fact.
Same goes for ugly break ups.
To the second part I agree partly - it's not the fault of some small group (for example Zaks friends, who are getting burned at the stake for somehow not having stopped Zak from comitting non-crimes and for not stopping hime from commiting crimes they didn't know of as for recently)
But to keep this things from happening it has to be a community wide effort.
We need to have an open ear for problems. And we have to keep in mind that allegations *may* be false. If not we have our own little Spanish Inquisition - guilty at suspicion. The other extreme nobody should want.
We need to inform potential victims, what to do, what not to do and who to reach out.
And we need to stop leash out on victims, just because they happe to be 'friends' with the culprit. Maybe they were not abused mentally and physical as some others - but their trust in this friendship was betrayed in the worst way possible.
We need to stop witch-huntings and keep the focus on the one responsible.
Left4Cake keep in mind that a group of people is not defined by a person
Thoughts are with all the victims. This is a hard time now in so many ways.
Good on ya for making this. Those who knew his actions should have done it sooner, but instead, they waited till something very big happened and ran towards the exit
These are mistakes we all need to learn from moving forward
Midnight Chimes MLP they didn't feel comfortable with sharing this kind of incriminating evidence that can shader a person and or community so I say don't mock them or blame them for what they deemed right
Because the reputation of the community or one of their friends is so much more important
in many way yes it is,white rose facepom
Way I see it, ToonKritic was the Jimmy Savile of the MLP fandom. Just like Savile, he used his position to abuse countless victims over many years and was protected and enabled by those around him. He was a monster who hid in plain sight. I only hope that this ends up being a watershed moment for the community, just as the Savile case did here in the UK.
I don't know if you can really compare something as far reaching as that but there is a similarity in the fact that the responsibility of something needs to be shared, and we've got to reluctantly acknowledge the deeper forces at work that allow this kind of situation to develop
Midnight Chimes MLP I appreciate that there's a difference in scale, but the principle still stands.
This is why I am more of an "outsider" or a "lurker" in this and many other communities I am in. This kind of circle jerking makes me physically sick.
Can't say I blame you. As someone closely involved in the fandom it is a struggle right now
Thank you. For focusing on what is the ACTUAL problem!!
We need acknowledge the underlying issues that exist if we are to learn in any way from this
I did wonder the same exact thing when all of his victims started coming forward to share their stories. I thought that surely Toon’s group members would have at least questioned it at some point, but they didn’t. Like you said, his group members were either too afraid to speak up because they were terrified of the backlash, or they were doing something wrong too. Either way it is inexcusable and needs to be dealt with. People can often use fandoms as a way to pray on others who are not as popularly known as they are. This is way I stay away from them!
I'd imagine if you were friends with someone like Toonkritic it would be tempting to live in denial about his actions. Another factor in why it was ignored for so long may have been because no one wanted to believe, which is almost understandable. Now we're seeing the end result though and we need to learn from it for the victims' sake
When I saw the title of the video, I thought you were talking about the SU reviewer lol.
SU reviewer?
Steven Universe
Oh right, I wouldn't know about that
H8FULT8
It's funny because he is toxic aswell
Radioactive Nightmarez Eh?
Is there anyway we can still go to roundtable is magic videos?
Not that I know of
Finally, something I can agree on.
The fact that they "enabled" his behavior for so long just adds to how badly they messed up.
They were worried about this damaging their careers, but it looks like the damage has been done already.
To be fair I don't think it was merely about damaging their careers. If your friend was doing creepy stuff like that there would be temptation to delude yourself and pretend it isn't as serious as the reality
Robert Natt agreed man on most of the comments I have seen from you so far
Robert Nett Sorry, but I don't consider Zack's ex-friends "clean" in this situation. And I'm sticking to my opinion in this drama.
No. Not clean. But not guilty for 'covering his crimes willingly and knowingly either'.
As I can't see myself don't making the same mistakes I can't blame them for making it.
The one person responsible is Zak.
And neither I can see, how blaming them for being fallible humans, helps.
As Midnight chimes puts it:
This is an issue we all have to think about. We all have to come to a conclusion how to prevent this in the future.
If you blame them - you could blame anyone, from his family, to everyone else who knew him, to his victims up to the friends of his victims. That is my point in this.
If you didn't find my points convincing enough, then ok.
ua-cam.com/video/3NghVI_fQF4/v-deo.html Everyone in this thread needs to watch and be educated.
My exact thoughts since this all got out. Thank you!
Wait, what was cosmic’s response to this? She’s moved into the saltydkdan friend group and idk where else to ask this question
Who is cosmic again, do you mean Keyframe? Sorry it's been a while
First video I've seen on your channel. You earned a subscriber.
Well thanks, hope you enjoy some of my other videos
A very informative video, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts ^^
This was not something I enjoyed, but it needed to be said
I see no reason why I can't highlight the issues with the mainstream media. Let's be honest, there's a lot of groupthink, and there are plenty of people who will just appear out of nowhere saying "they're all pedophiles, he proves it!" and snap judgments will return as they did when the brony fandom started. I'm not going to say Zak is the Logan Paul of the brony community, that's an insult to too many people, but I do see some parallels. If you watch GaijinGoomba's response to the Logan Paul situation, he is enraged because of how many years he spent trying to break the stereotype of Americans in Japan, and how Logan Paul's actions rolled back all his progress as an educator. This is very similar to how the mainstream media has viewed bronies for many years. How much of that is going to get walked back because of Zak's actions? I'm worried about the progress we've earned, the respect we've earned, as a community, with both the mainstream media, and with the show staff. That's not a small thing.
I'm not saying that the fandom doesn't have its problems, but there are plenty of people who just want to be who they are without harming anyone. These are the people that are going to get affected by the group's reputation being damaged. That was my overall point.
Dulcet Tone well said man
To put it less crudely, yes we can worry about our image and the mainstream media later. Right now there are more pressing matters at stake. If we're going to be melodramatic let's turn that melodrama inwards and examine ourselves first. Use it in a way that might actually be of service to the victims
There is no such thing as bad publicity.
[offtopic]
The sad truth is that the "brony phenomena" has faded (people are not getting annoyed by pony avatars in forums anymore).
With only 2 more years before the end of the current generation of MLP; we need to regain some momentum on the colective conciousness; otherwise what "the mainstream" may think about us as a comunity (good or bad) would not matter when the "new wave" happens [G5]; that may put the content creators on stasis for another 10/20 years (just how it happened with Star Trek).
[/off]
If we are worried that the show producers, voice actresses and other *VERY "Important" People* may reject invitations to conventions [more likely just their managers saying to them to not go]; is because of money (we need them to boost ticket sales so more people buy more stuff from fanmade creators); not for the sake of the fandom itself [who do not need conventions to keep existing].
Indeed standards must be high.
I'm not a Brony but I feel so sorry for the fandom, now it's just gonna make it look worse.
It is a shame but the victims are who we should be feeling sorry for first
I am with Midnight Chimes on this point.
The fandom will survive.
I mean - take any fandom, subculture, or given group of people. you likely have idiots and criminals anywhere.
Bronies are no exception.
I am not sure though, that something of this magnitude happened before. We had our share of drama, some minor incidents - but this is the first time, someone out of the fandom commited a crime.
While this is bad, it is - don't get me wrong on this - just bound to happen. It's the law of big numbers. Anything, regardless of probability, will happen surely, if you have enough tries.
All we can say now, is the innocence is lost. It happened and it will probably happen again in one or another way.
What we can do, and what we should do is doing our best to prevent this.
Running around griefing about how the precious fandom got tarnished, doesn't help.
Target our rage against everyone remotly connected to the culprit - and by this victimise people who also are victims (by far not that bad than the actual victims, but still) - for venting and getting vengance, or fighting our inability to *do* something, doesn't help, but harms even more.
What we should do is reach out to the victims, inform potential victims, who to contact, what to do and what to not do and keep an open ear for problems.
Who cares if look worse, a lot of bad bronies are getting the hate they deserve.
It's because many _forgave_ him for not bothering to change. Dr. Wolf's message of forgiveness for yourself and not the others is one that many had and it harmed everyone! Like Sketchy said, "Forgiveness is earned."
That A'HOLE was constantly forgiven for his horrid behavior and despite never changing, everyone just rolled along with it until this situation popped up. Too little, too late.
Sketchy did hit it on the head, But I can tell you first hand (unlike the kp drama) they didn't want to hear it. I was there telling them about Toon. Master code spoke up as well.
ForNoGoodReason
Really? Wow, it's kinda depressing in a way but I guess I can see why... Still doesn't make it any better...
Aside from that, thanks for telling me about this. It helps me understand things more.
Sometimes I guess apathy or "forgiveness" is easier than facing up to reality
Midnight Chimes MLP
Sometimes taking the easy route is a bad thing... I can easy what you mean though...
Acknowledging these deep rooted issues that are still going on is hard, of course it is, but it's something we must do for the sake of every victim and to make sure we learn from this moving forward
Even though I’m not that deeply involved in the community (I just like the show lol) I remember watching these guys’ reviews a bit. When I heard about what happened (literally a few days ago) it really hurt me. Good video.
Thanks, it's been difficult for everyone
Took the words right out of my mouth.
One of the many reasons I decided to take a long break from the brony fandom, fricking drama that ALWAYS gets overlooked or dealt with in the WORSE way possible or dealt with WAY too late when a simple solution could have been used to resolve the issue LONG ago!!! I swear the fandom is going to kill itself one day if stuff like this keeps happening. I'm sorry if I sound like an anti-brony person right now, I really am not, but GEEZ come on! I know we can all be better than this! We can clean out all the wrongs said about the fandom by just 1) thinking and acting smartly with our decisions and 2) doing the right thing the right way before it gets blown up all over the media and making the fandom look bad.
I really hope we can be better than this
Midnight Chimes MLP Hopefully we can. Otherwise the brony fandom will fall and I'm pretty sure a lotb of bronies and pegasisters will not be pleased with that. People just need to be smarter and more aware of their choices they make no matter if they're the offender, defender, accuser, accused, etc. Trust me when I say this that this fandom isn't the only one experiencing this problem. A few other fandoms I've been apart of have either been looked down upon or left due to unnecessary drama and it pains, angers, and annoys me to see chaos that could have been solved or better yet avoided if the people made better choices. The brony community does not need to become one of those kinds of fandoms (and I sure hope it doesn't). All of us just need to be better and smarter people and if there are some who are confused about that, we need to be the ones to help guide them in the right direction (without causing more drama of course). Maybe, just maybe, if we can all band together and make the changes now to patch away the damages inflicted upon this community, we might be able to save it before it's too late.
There are four stages of grief during a tragedy like this: Sadness, Anger, Bargaining, and Acceptance. You are most certainly the first one I've seen to make it to stage 2.
Well being angry about a situation like this is certainly a reasonable way to respond
Oh my god thank you! That’s just...thank you subscribed.
Thanks!
I’m a little confused as to what actually happened. You’re saying that they had many opportunities to report him, but according to them, they only just recently found out, and told him to do the right thing and turn himself in. When he refused, they alerted the authorities. Is there any proof that they knew about this a long time ago? They seem to suggest otherwise. It seems as though those screenshots were only recently taken and brought to light, and the people who are discussing it are either directly involved, or are showing no proof to back up their statements, so it looks like they’ve jumped to conclusions on certain parts of it. Can anyone link me to a proper account of what happened? I’m not sure how to feel about any of the people involved, anymore.
They didn't know about the pedophilia until recently, but some of Toonkritic's other behaviour was pretty hard to overlook and has since been documented by Mimi Kage and others
Mr Chimes you're right!
Well now it's courts. I refuse too make a full judgment until a judge and jury make one.
Well one thing we can be sure of one way or another, ToonKritic is a scumbag, few would try to argue with that
A cunning, charismatic sociopath. They can be the worst and I've known them as well, went up too them about it, they were totally indifferent about it. Only then do you realise what they are.
Good video and yes very Sad and I have no words for this situation
It's a difficult time in so many ways
Midnight Chimes MLP my experience video is almost done
I agree with you. Well done.
3:50 Is that Slaughtering Grounds music!?!
At first I felt sorry for the Round Table a bit since they planned to contact the police, but hearing about their past actions boils my blood. I'm not saying everyone in that group is a bad person, but its situations like this that make me realize that its important to choose friends carefully.
This is the Sons Of Kojima all over again.
That would be Lily Peet's music. i just know it as her Glass of Water theme for "serious" topics. In a way I still feel sorry for ToonKritic's friends but at the same time we have to acknowledge and learn from their mistakes. It's the victims who matter the most
I feel like I should know who tooncritic is since I’ve been in this fandom since season 2, but I had no idea who he was until this happened.
Worst thing to become known for
"BUCK STEREOTYPES" genius classic
Well said sir, I fully agree with you.
Thanks
I never once blamed the others in the community for what Toon did.
Looking for people to blame isn't a productive approach moving forward, but this is not just about the actions of single individual and that needs to be acknowledged
Honestly as a person who's not a brony or anything when i heard this situation i was like woah you know like "Shame on toon blah blah" but your right who knows how many more things they could be hiding and not telling others because of friend wanting to "protect" which it slightly making them (to me at least) sound like reputation first then friendship or whatever, Its pretty disappointing to know that just kept quiet about the situation then started to actually do something and say something about it of course shame for toon for doing such a thing as well.
It's an issue which goes deeper than just one individual or even one group of friends, but yeah what ToonKritic did is really awful. I believe he was given a few quiet slaps on the wrist prior to this, however more should have been done
Midnight Chimes MLP very much so its sad to see toon do something like that its not like its worse enough that pedophilia is quite common, and that group should avoid doing that bad habit of doing that kind of stuff.
I suspect the fandom has a lot of dark secrets hidden away
Sadly it wouldn't surprise me
if i was to be honest the toon event really didn't come as a surprise to me
It’s a hard situation to figure out because while it’s easy with the benefit of hindsight to criticize how people handled things, it’s a lot harder to figure out the right course of action in the moment. After all, if a friend of yours did something wrong, but fessed up to it and promised to go get help, wouldn’t you want to believe them? There certainly were warning signs in retrospect, but I can’t blame Toon’s friends for wanting to believe he was making an honest effort to change. It’s terrible that things got as far as they did, but I don’t think we have enough hard evidence yet to unequivocally state what should have been done instead.
Well since we do have that hindsight we all need to take on that experience and learn from it. We do know now what should have been done. Toonkritic should have been stopped before it got this far.
I'm prepared to have this talk about the community , but I can't have it alone.
ForNoGoodReason just curious, but how many do you need for this talk?
This is a time to discuss and reflect, and by that I mean having a constructive reflection, not throwing around accusations and finding scapegoats. That is how history repeats
bro, you are one of the most toxic people in this community. BRO
I spoke from my personal experiences, I did not make up actions that didn't happen.
It is to the public yet and I got all the evidence using in the need to know about this toonkritic if you still point I don't care
And no one cares. That's that is the sad part. No one cares... The fandum does not care. Hasbro does not care. Only ponies that care is a handful of youtubers
One thing I will say in defense of Toon's former friends is sometimes you can be pretty blind to a friend's bad habits, especially if they're good at hiding them or silencing the voices accusing them. Honestly, hindsight is 20/20, and I am sure there may have been signs or situations where they really should have put Toon to the task. Josh Sorcher mentioned that the times they did call Toon out for less vicious offenses he made apologies and begged to be given a chance to 'improve himself'. Whether this is true or perhaps Josh and the others are hiding details out of guilt and mortification for being taken like fools as they were. I honestly like to think they either bought Toon's excuses and at worst, didn't investigate earlier allegations against him with as much grit as one should have.
Whatever their lack of action, Toon's former circle will have to live with the guilt of however indirect or directly they helped Toon victimize others. As for Doctor Wolf's video I admit while I understand what he's going about in terms of forgiveness; I personally would rather deal with the venom of hate in my system than offer any sort of placating 'forgiveness'. I know it's in the spirit of 'don't poison your soul' but I can deal with that poison in my soul as ToonKritic can rot in the pits of every Hell possible for what he did.
Of course hindsight is everything, but that is how we learn. It's not just about blaming Toon's friends or any individuals, it's about taking on the lessons from what has happened
Very much agreed on that. Those who do not learn from life's situations allow them to repeat in the future, thus starting the cycle of misery anew.
They actually confronted Toon about it before the minor thing happened, he said he was going to change and seeking therapies, and they told him to turn himself in if he truly regretted what he did.
While I do agree with you, they have admitted that how they handled the situation was a mistake, they never once hid that fact.
Great, now let's see that we learn from it
Oh there is more then just one skeleton in the closet.
Point proven, I feel like I need to agree with you on this one.
We don't know the whole facts on what went on in the past. how he was able to weasel his way out of trouble back then we don't know the majority of everything that went on or was talked about between them at that time we don't know what he told them to get away with it. But as for the convention stuff if this was going on why didn't they report it to the convention staff directly themselves at the time. There are so many things that could have been done in the past but that's hindsight right now.
From what I can understand the major lie he was telling them that he was seeing someone to make him better he was saying he was going to a therapist and they were giving him the benefit of the doubt believing he was seeking help about his past Behavior. So we shouldn't be crucifying them we don't need a Spanish Inquisition we specially need to stop going on a Witch Hunt. As one of the lines in the MLP song says "we're not Flawless we're work in progress" to me that is a good definition of humanity right now. We're not perfect beings that can read people's minds and see the depths of their souls.
All we can do is take for the mistakes that have been done in the past and try to better ourselves so we don't repeat it that's all we can do and learn from this it's easy to blame. But the thing we should be doing instead of playing the blame game.
Is actually taking the time to talk to people and I mean really talk you can talk to your kids about this.
When going online going into chat rooms going to conventions.
We need to talk about what should be done in certain situations.
Item one: if you do go to a convention and there's a guy groping everyone and if they're using I'm cause playing excuse still tell the convention staff.
Item number two:
If you believe you're being followed by a really creepy person tell the convention staff find an older group mostly vendors to help you to get ahold of the convention staff. And report it.
Don't just tell people tell the right people.
The ones that can actually do something a lot faster then just your friends.
This part goes for online.
You need to use common sense when going online safety 101. And back in the day it was supposed to be don't give out your real age or anything too personal about yourself but these day and ages. That part of Common Sense has gone out the window. We're becoming a society that shares too much about ourselves online to complete strangers. Prime examples of this Facebook ,Snapchat, Tumblr and any other social media site.
Unfortunately we're in a society that thinks because it's online it's okay to get away with certain things. Which we shouldn't let them. If you enter a chat room that's clearly has adult conversation going on not just by language alone but on the subject you need to leave that chat room or say hey I'm not comfortable about this subject speak up. And if they troll you about that and that's a sure sign that you need to definitely get away from that toxic chat room. Or at least leave for that day. But those are my thoughts you can agree or disagree. That's the right of any sentient being.
What bodes even worse for the larger names than their years worth of inaction, intentional or otherwise, is that a disturbing number of them hopped on the forgiveness bandwagon again. The very train that stops where we are now.
The sentiments of some of those statements from the "larger names" as you say I did find troubling. Saying things like "we need to forgive", "we didn't want to demonise him". I mean it's like even now they want to delude themselves about how serious the atrocities he has committed are. It just shows the problem is continuing and needs to be addressed
Indeed. To be fair, it's understandable why, given their proximity with Toon. But it's not productive in the least. Well, unless you count hurting their own careers and coming off as incredibly fishy to be productive, but I consider it ironic. Doubly so if there actually was a coverup. (Though I find it more likely they just have zero clue what they're doing, and hopped on forgiveness to try and end it faster) That said, I think I speak for alot of the community when I say I'd appreciate some evidence for the claim they were manipulated into their inaction.
Oh yes I can understand it, and I guess it shows to their credit that the apathy probably had more to do with their friendship with Toon than cynically wanting to avoid hurting their careers, as some might suggest. It must be hard accept, and as I said I don't envy any of ToonKritic's friends right now
Midnight Chimes MLP:
I see a few reasons besides maybe past connection to Zac here, allthough I can imagine that as one reason. I don't think you can cut off someone this quickly. Clinging to a past, may be just a way of coping.
So yes, they may hope for the "best" - whatever someone might consider the best outcome.
Because even if horse-famous and semi-professionals on youtube, no one of them has the training nor the experience to deal with this situation 'properly'.
But at least Dr Wolfs statement regarding forgiveness makes also lot sense to me:
In short 'forgiving doesn't mean everything is forgotten and I am OK with your actions - I just won't let my grudge against you making my life harder anymore.
He has said it a lot better than me, so - if you didn't already - I reccomend you to see at least this statement.
And I don't think that 'forgiving' means to re-unite and making more stuff together, going on as nothing ever happened. I can't imagine that Zac anytime soon will appear again on the scene.
Lastly - you should notice that every single statement of Zacs friends at least link, but mostly explicitly mention the NetSmartz-Website. I think drawing attention on potential problems with molesters or pedophiles is not only their responsibility, but of everyone of us too.
The forgiveness discussion has been interesting. It depends a lot on how you define. I'm in the camp where not holding a grudge about something is not necessarily the same as forgiving. From what I can tell Toon hasn't done anything to deserve forgiveness, but it's hard to blame his friends for trying to find their own ways of coping
While I do to some extent agree with these points, you seem to be ignoring the fact that a total sociopath like toon is very adept at tricking and manipulating others as well as their ability to get multiple chance. Look closer at how each of them reacted after every one of toons actions
ToonKritic may well have manipulated those around him, but portraying him as a supervillain, pulling all the strings, is not constructive when it comes to addressing the wider issues and what needs to be learned from this situation
At lest Keyframe wasn’t a victim
well said
Thanks
I thought his friends kick him out.
They did when the evidence was given to them
Sooo... 5 months later and what? Toon is probably still out there free.
Worryingly it appears that way
Gained a sub❤️❤️❤️
Thanks
So we need a witch hunt is what it sounds like your saying to me.
No. A witch hunt is the opposite of what we need. In this situation it is easy to find individuals to blame, but that's the point, it's TOO easy. It's a convenient way of avoiding the core of the problem and not learning anything, which is how history repeats itself. This is something that will be expanded on more in the follow-up when I get to it.
Ok fair enough not having much info apart from what I hear you tubers comment on I'm rather in the dark about this whole thing.Being more of a sort of person who believes in innocent until proven guilty I wasn't sure what to believe on this since I don't go to cons so on. Thanks for clearing up your point for me though Midnight.
*Can;t help thinking back to this.... **ua-cam.com/video/wCgx8zM3woQ/v-deo.html*
_as we Dance Dance Dance to these stereotypes......_ ;''3
But yeah there really should been more done to get him the help he needed BEFORE it got to this point.
(and as said it's too likely there could be or been others getting overlooked. who knows)
Either way I'm not going to listen to or watch most of these Logan Paul, er "Toon Critic" vids put out,
as in the end it's just going to end up as one big circle-off and no one remembering the point;
_That someone needed their actions to been addressed sooner and their work now mostly for nought._
(and the works of others harmed by it also.)
And no. No one in this case was ever actually raped or sexually molested IRL to our knowing,
grouped perhaps or asked if wanted to do things, yes. But that it _Might_ have gotten to that point if it hadn't been finally caught and looked into. That is the biggest issue here, that of what might could have been,
along with with should not have come to be if he had be forced sooner to get the kind of help he needed.
It's easy to talk to hell and back about the "victims," some more than others whom were perhaps not as fully knowingly or willingly complicit in all things at all times at the earlier points, sure.
The important thing though in this we should also be remembering is often times there are those who need help that when given notice to their issues said help can be provided for them if to them and much can be prevented. And yet when ignored things get worse such they do not hold themselves to a higher accountability than others hold them to.
Life can be shit, and a lot of people in it are also shit. But perhaps the most shit thing to do,
is to not give notice when someone is of a troubled sorts who needs help who might not want it but needs it.
They had all the clues and they full well knew but instead covered for him til it went too far, or would have.
At least now he can get the help he needs, wanted or not, and perhaps so too can his "victims" who need it.
(again, likely there are some who actually faced harm more than mild dramas, who can find peace also now)
Got to love the US law cause no other place goes by it
Okay. I know I'm going to be fillet for this. But though you do have a point that the round table should've done something and didn't, there's a likely more personal reasons as to why. Like, oh I don't know, maybe it's no one else's business except theirs? I'm not saying that we should ignore what toon did cuz that's just fucked up. We don't really know how these guys are outside of what we really know and there are things that they don't wish to talk about yet or at all. Yes they should've done something. Yes they made a mistake. Forgiveness is definitely earned. But I wouldn't hate them for it. I can only hope the best of luck to round table and the MLP fandom, as well as taking appropriate action(s) in the near future when actually needed.
I'm sorry I know this sounds extremely retarded. I'm not good with words. Just hope you understand what I'm saying.
😓 toonkriticy2k crazy
HAY they did what they deemed necicary and they were trying take this personally so people didn't crap on the community and you are just trying to make people feel bad
Feeling bad is an entirely appropriate response for this situation. Worrying whether people will "crap on the community" is not so appropriate.
*Clap*
It’s funny I’ve been watching videos about the tune critic incident and all I can think about is how are used to be prejudice against romance say that I wanted people arrested for making you so I sounded like I believed that engaging in romantic behavior was a crime how stupid is that eventually I decided where I didn’t have this prejudice in the first place And I just acted prejudice sometimes because I didn’t bash my parents are making out every time they did it but if a couple got injured well they were making out and then I wouldn’t of shown Any sympathy Four them unless I was forced to show it A story that actually did happen in real life When I was 14 I was seeking revenge on someone for having a girlfriend first I said I wanted To train a skunk to spray him no I know that pedophilia isn’t considered a genuine romantic relationship but I take it that it was presented that way and that is what tune wanted his victims believe I mean he called one of his victims cutie if that doesn’t show it I don’t know what does I don’t know how else you can groom someone in the sex without presenting it as romantic relationship I guess you can tell someone that you have something personal tell them and then do it but that would not work on me either because I also did not respect privacy physical symptoms how are much more relatable to me because when I had TENS I had Discharge sometimes my urine had mucus sometimes it had one but it was the worst because that was painful I was also itchy or burning so if any of them had an STD I can relate them because I add symptoms of that I think tunes victims should become motivational speakers and explain how this affects them and tune correct himself could be The one the one to pay for the medication if they STD I believe in restorative justice which focuses on making amends over punishment so I would be able to forgive tune before most people sure we can’t do transformative justice because to my knowledge he doesn’t have problems that would make them do what he did in the first place but I’m trying to figure out a Way to restore home without punishment as much as possible and I’m sure both toonkritic and his victims would appreciate that in many ways I relate to Zuko from avatar the last Airbender because firstly I remember where are used to be bad and then I turn to good with romance and also people’s perception of me Has changed because at first I received a comment from sketchy the changeling about how I need to be more sensitive about this topic I was asking him what do toonkritic needed to do to earn forgiveness and for some reason he Thought I was being insensitive when really I was thinking of the victims more than anyone else because everyone else has a punitive system and I have a restorative one hopefully everything can go smoothly from here this is been the handy cappuccino signing out
I feel lighting fire dr wolf an sliver are still HIDING. somthing .............. Cant be good :/
*This* is why whenever I join a fandom, I have to know the actual reputation of the fandom than it's _'initial'_ reputation i.e. *_"good reputation"_* and having that in mind, will benefit me in the long run.
The trouble with the brony fandom is it has been so overly paranoid about its "reputation" from the start, to the point where that perception of itself becomes more important than the reality and the water gets muddied. It's only in times like this you get to see things more clearly, and it is not pleasant. But now is the chance to acknowledge that fact and work on fixing it
Midnight Chimes MLP Yeah I can see that this is the opportunity to inform people however if they decided to wait till it fades away... Well, we'll know what to do at the time..
Lightning Bliss needs to remove the video she made.
hmm if anything Dr Wolf's misjudged forgiveness appeal or the D&D episodes that continue to include ToonKritic are more immediately concerning
They shouldn't have kept quiet about it, but I understand the reasons they did, which was them believing in second chances (y'know, friendship is magic and all that jazz) and toon victimising himself, promising to be better. However, with the astounding amount of people who are coming out about him, there should've been a point where they said enough was enough. Unfortunately, it happened to be when it was too late.
That is what I can't get my head around, and the biggest hole in the "master manipulator" defence. Sure Toon could portray himself as the victim or tell them he was in a "bad place" so many times, but the sheer volume of individuals now coming forward makes it hard to accept no action was taken up until that point
I've thought about it, and the most likely explanation that I've come up with is that each person gave him a second chance on their own, and had no idea about the other people with the same experience. It's possible that each person affected by Toon could've thought they were the only one without knowing he'd been doing it to everyone.
Yeah that is a good point, there was probably a fair few cases that didn't really get reported. It probably didn't help as well that any who did come forward were not taken seriously or given the attention they deserved, or at worse were made out to be in the wrong
Sighs
God have mercy on their soll
Listen I'm not a brony but I'll say this god have mercy on your solls
Well done you just got your self a new Sub, I also agree with everything you say :D
Thank you
No thanks needed, You are one of the very few who has seen the issues for what they are and by doing this video you have gotten the less stubborn members of the Community to start thinking and that way lies Change my friend :D
The fact all I have been seeing is post after post of *good friends* fleeing like roaches with the lights turned on claiming they knew nothing.. nothing about the now ex friend is staggering. More then enough knew enough and kept lips sealed either in some weird stand up for friend thing, or worse, afraid to spill the beans and become known as *that guy*. And lets be truthful, we all admire the beanspillers when they tell a juicy tale, then curbstomp them after as being a snitch!. The guy was doing some shady stuff certainly, and a few, or more, friends knew of it but stayed quiet.all well and fine. Acting so SO shady after it leaked out and fleeing as far and fast as possiable to basically save the career they have rather then stand up is shameful. remember we are also human and generally when a friend really makes a jackhole mistake, we should try and help if we were at all friends..not run away screaming. or is this the new normal?.
There are too many who are afraid of "drama" and metaphorically getting their hands dirty, but ignoring a problem does not make it go away. With hindsight we can see it would have been better for everyone, and most importantly the victims, had appropriate action been taken sooner. Now, whatever Toon's friends do, things are going to look bad for them to a degree, but some of them have admittedly not helped themselves with how they've responded.
👍🏻👍👍🏽
So... do YOU have any skeletons in your closet you'd like to share?
Oh I can hardly close my closet it's so full... On a more serious note though, I am trying to hold my friends and those I associate with closely to high standards and will publicly criticise them if such action is warranted
Do you mind if I take a look?
I see some notes here about tax evasion, always fun... death threats from dead community members, oh how ironic...
Wow, Paul Joseph Watson is a brony
I sure hope not
If he was, he'd never admit it lol I was just joking because you sound a lot like him.
You're not the first to make the comparison actually
I would guess not. Probably something others have noticed. According to the internet, PJW is from Sheffield. Are you from around there?
I was born in West Yorkshire but didn't stay there long. I don't really have the accent of others where I'm from anyway
14,040 views
Oh no! Nothing to see here just move along...
What are you commenting for then?
No thanks video
No thanks comment
It's awful
THANK YOU.
OH MY GOD.
You're one of the only people who have taken the time to point out everyones gross behavior in this and the fact they hid it for a long while and made people stay quiet.
Oh my lord, thank you for making this!
The repeated "brushing under the rug" of ToonKritic's actions is probably the worst thing about this situation, and the same attitude is still continuing, with some looking to paint Toon's friends as the victims rather than having the sort of discussions that will be of service to the REAL victims
1:59 - "Until recently i was not aware of any of this"
So... If you knew nothing about it... Had no involvement in this... And only just saw the light to what he's been up to...
Why are you talking about it?
Just because it's a topic of conversation around the internet now and that his (ex)friends are heartbroken enough it gives pretty much any tom, dick and harry the opportunity to talk about an issue that they know nothing about only from what they've heard from sources~
A message to all people out there who have done the same...
If you have had no involvement in this matter only just wanna jump on the hate band wagon because it gets cheep views talking about something that has spread like a virus... Don't get involved, it doesn't concern you
I'm not making a video about the whole thing. But I do want to get my point across so I'm trying to draw a picture with how I feel. Maybe it's still the same thing, but I feel like I have to say something
You think I just made this just to jump on a bandwagon? This matter affects the community at large and these things need to be said.
As for using sources, that's literally how academic practice works, and the fact I didn't know anything about this before actually speaks a lot, given what we know now
By saying "You brought it on yourselves"
...
No one deserves betrayal like this
I should know, the day someone you care and love rips your heart apart like a second hand peace of paper
I think he just wants to help. Midnight has no bad intentions with this.
so when looking at the "crimes" of toon...at what age did they start doing RP...at what age did they start sharing PG13 pic...
We know from screenshots he was erotic role-playing with a minor of 15, initially 14 years I think. That is a "real" crime as you put it
You realize that if you do anything of a sexual nature to someone who isn’t in the age of maturity, you’ll be in deep trouble in the US? Hell if parents find out their kid is sexing another kid or taking nudes, they would get in trouble.
Also people on the internet can still fuck with you. You obviously never been taught “don’t trust people on the internet”. In the 90s these types of people would pretend to be whatever age their victim was (or close to)and was able to manipulate them into doing things they shouldn’t.
Victims got fucked over irl. His partners got fucked over because all he wanted was a human cocksock. And because he was a greedy little cretin, he believed (and to a certain point of time, it was true) that he can ask whatever he wanted off the internet because he used his power (UA-cam fame) among other things.
There’s been another case of a content creator using his fan base to get pictures of underage girls panties, bottoms and worse positions. He also used his influence to get the underage girls in question to do what he wanted. They wanted his favor and attention.
There’s a parallel to these cases. And it’s disgusting that there are people who think because of their influence they can get away with this.
BS...I try to be entirely moral person.In late 90s when I was a teen I launched a 10 line BBS, 10 people could be on at once talking to each other playing games....I hooked up with other local BBS's...its a lil different for gay ppl...I purposefully made gay section on my site...I met a 15 yr old when I was 19 (that's pedo right?)...he hit on me when I just trying to show him stuff on network...first bf I met off there..his first words on meeting me, so you are the great and powerful *screename* like wizard of oz...ending up dating for 6 months. I met my first transexual off it too...another 15 yr old.(totally disagree with transexuals, and 40% suicide rate disturbs me as a gay man) brought him to local gay coffee shop to meet kids around his own age. His only gay role model was ru paul...I hope he got better...but doubt it. Yeah so your lil problems online...really? seems like straight people problems..OMG someone approached me online sexually...ban him...F-U
Now that I am older....I think it legally inadvisable to help younger gay guys without video.
thanks to all you victims out there who do not want me to help younger gay real victims...hell last yr someone under 18 contacted me, accused him of being cops and shunned him...YOU HAVE CAUSED THIS...vs previous yrs taking them to gay coffee shops where they can meet ppl around their age in tampa...here in ohio no idea...and good luck not risking associating under 18...now its taboo