Geez, the no armor gain on gun strikes and executions when your the only one left thing is BAD. Def ain't gonna touch Lethal until that's fixed at least.
Not to mention there's not really much of ANY reason to go into Lethal difficulty aside for the cosmetics. And that only needs 1 Lethal clear per mission. After you're done with that, there's no real point other than being a person that enjoys that level of challenge. I'm not. I'd rather GET something out of each clear, and Lethal doesn't offer anything enticing since it's all still Relic armory data. The extra exp is redundant since we'll probably need to go in with maxed weapons and characters anyways. I really would have loved a new weapon rarity higher than Relic to go along with Lethal.
@nateklempner561 thought the same thing but then I realised people would start crying how they can't get the new tier etc. I think the devs know this so they just make it a optional challenge for cosmetics, so noone will cry how they are gate keeping the game content THEY PAID FOR!! Needs like 1 or 2 tweaks mainly titan formation but ya its for fun don't have to think much about it
@@milkandcookiesTW Haven't been able to play the last op on high difficulty because the bio titan fight causes severe lag spikes when it attacks but it's a ton a fun IMO and a cool fight
@@milkandcookiesTWdidn’t think such a thing was possible since they don’t spawn on the Inferno Operations mission during the factory crane loading phase if you happen to stand at their spawn location.
The good: game is noticeably harder The Bad: removing armor gain when not in range of allies The Ugly: getting gang graped by a trio of lictors when I was told by a reliable source that “lictors hunt alone”
Hold up. Punishing players for not sticking to coherency, nerfing the almost magical parry window, discrediting Titus' claims about lictors... I knew it. Leandros is the designer of this patch!
The only thing I don't like about the new difficulty is the coherency thing. I personally find it a lot of fun having several extremes show up at once, makes it a lot more interesting and tense. Plus since this is a challenge difficulty with almost no incentive other than the difficulty or completionist purposes, I think it's fine if the enemy composition is overwhelming, and even goes against things said by Titus, for the sake of giving a proper challenge to those that want to play the difficulty. Removing the ability for people to play their class properly and hinder solo clutch opportunities with the coherence is not a fun or fair way to add challenge though
I love AI DIrector ace in the hole mean in form of sending 3 lictors at the players! Its hard but so fun when it happend, especially with all chaos on voice chat when everyone scream 'lictor!'. XD
@@svalfish1716 don't think that's the argument. Can you still win ? Yes. But since release, the game allows you to express your skills with or without being near your group. It's just silly how adding difficulty into the game isn't just more damage and more enemies, but arbitrarily adding a proximity system. That's honestly so bizarre. If grouping up is the way some players go through ruthless, good on them, but forcing players to be together is hand holding. Once you're past substantial, you should be able to figure out what works for yourself, as a lobby and as a community Don't even get me started on the ammo system... I should die because I suck, not because I wasn't within hugging distance from my brothers
Agreed. It’s kinda, “what’s the point” feeling. Either an oversight or something they intended that does in fact make it difficult. Just not the way people want to play it. I think they fix it. They seem to be on it.
@svalfish1716 if the players play how their classes are intended then its completely useless. Bulwark or assault charging in while sniper or heavy cover from the back, is how its meant to be played but now the sniper has to be in melee range? The heavy doesn't even have a really melee attack and 2/3 of his weapons need to be held down to shoot.
Yeah, and the range need to be heavily increased or modified. I don’t want an umbilical cord attached to my teammates. That limits player expression, which is what the combat is all about🤷♂️.
@@kamiya4700game benefits alot from linear map to, artfical grouping is done super well in darktide, left4dead and deeprock unlike space marine and helldivers 2
I think it would be or like Darktide or the fact that you regain only jalf bar and not a full one if you are too far, allowing you to still be able to hold if the other temmates die😅
This is Zackinator813…. I gotta say when I saw you get crushed by the pod I was laughing so hard I almost could not get to you for the revive. That reaction of yours was priceless. No idea that could happen. I agree that coherency needs some tweaks. Honestly difficulty overall is not that punishing but the coherency oversight when you are by yourself if just criminal. I had a moment with Sparty later in the day when I was last alive. Slowly got chipped away even though some of the my plays were really clutch. Ruined a great moment that would have previously been possible. Great overall vid!!!
They made Lethal difficulty mostly annoying, not difficult. You can perform perfectly but if don't have your teammates right at your hip you won't be able to regain any armor, armor already needed a buff.. Bolters needed a buff, now they suck more because everything is a bullet sponge and ammo from the crate is limited
@@zerk813 Nah, just hyperbolic. He says they're more of a bullet sponge now when they're not, so he doesn't know what he's talking. Bolters are fine if you know how to use them, they're not as bad as people say but he thinks they're rubbish. He's complaining about the ammo, but never have I managed to use the whole box even when I'm trying to waste as much of it as possible as a heavy so that's not even a factor. Then he says armour already NEEDED more buffs BEFORE lethal? "You can perform perfectly but..." If he's playing perfectly, then I must be a god. Hyperbolic.
I hate the coherency system. It was totally unnecessary. Honestly I rather fight packs of lictors and raveners a third as often as warriors than deal with it in pub groups. I feel like the system is completely counter-intuitive to the games combat system. My suggested change is you take like 50% more damage or something if they want to keep it in instead of not being able to get armor back.
Legit just make it 10% more damage taken when too far and 10% more damage done when close. Its just not fun at all to be arbitrarily nerfed like that. What if I wanna play my Las Fusil Sniper? I just get screwed over big time for doing what my class is supposed to do. If your team is Sniper Assault and Tactical then everyone wants to play at different ranges and nobody feels good either waiting for other people or being forced to keep up with the quick classes. TBH I think it should be deleted entirely since multiple extremis spawns and not knowing when the spawns are coming already make Lethal much harder than any other difficulty
Having played some Lethal missions, I find the armour reduction and coherency (both individually and together) to be supremely dog shit. Should never have even made it TO the drawing board, let alone into the bloody game.
In a way, it does make it incredibly difficult. Just not the way we want. Maybe that was their reasoning? I believe they’ll fix it though. There’s no outlandish monetization, just a good game to the people, which is eventually what will come. Patients brothers. Compared to almost every other studio/publisher to release a game, they’re killing it. “See you out there getting downed because we currently can’t replenish armor brothers👊🤙!!!”
@@_Channel1_ Well put lol. Like outside of the armour changes, I was having a decent chunk of fun with the new difficulty, it gets your heart racing, but the tethering and armour reduction kills it for me so much. And please, Saber, buff my beloved bolter weapons. Just a crumb of buffing.
Coherency make sense in tabletop because you have specialized squads (squads of scouts marine, assault marine, etc...), here we can't have a full squad of one class, and ppl are forced to play a certain way that isn't how you're supposed to play your class just to get your defensive mechanics back, it's just poor game design and shouldn't exist, no matter how cute it is to make a reference to tabletop rules
@@EKk8819 I've been crying all night now, I don't have any more strength, you want to play one mission so I can see how the boss plays, so I can feel the victory for once 😢😢
Being punished for the actions of other players should rarely (if ever) be a thing in game mechanics. Being unable to generate armour because a random player moves out of range is lazy game design and absolutely unfun. Scrapping it entirely would be my preference. At worst, add a timer that begins when range is exceeded and enforces the mechanic when it ticks to zero. As the author mentioned, the mechanic forces you to play in suboptimal ways which punish some classes more than others. In a game with only six classes, having a full half of them be preferentially punished compared to the others is awful, especially when theres another mechanic that enforces class diversity.
The coherency mechanic should just be a buff, not a punishment for playing certain classes. Whoever implemented this patch should seriously look at proper quality control.
Great points in this one could not have said it better. As always people are being overly dramatic, it really only needs a few tweaks to go from decent to really good. But i do hope they get around to actually buffing some weapons isntead of nerfing them. Also the whole balance/fencing/block thing need some rework i dont see why you would ever take a weapons where you cant parry.
100% agree. They decided that parry was going to be a huge part of their game. Whether that be getting big damage gun strikes or the main function of gaining armor back, it's super important. To that end why would you ever run a non-fencing weapon? Like I get that balance and block weapons typically have better damage/speed/cleave whatever, but all the stats in the world don't make up for the fact that you lose parry ability. Running a block weapon and a Lictor shows up? Hope you have a fucking teammate cuz YOU ain't killing that lol.
Honestly part of me is kind of amazed how much reputational damage Hell Divers 2 did to the concept of nerfing things. It feels like ever since that several month long fiasco people are now incredibly paranoid that any patch nerfs more things than buffs them, even if exclusive to one new difficulty mode, is going to result in a never ending cycle of anti-fun nerfs.
@@thelegendarynarwhal2931 balance is absolutely fine tbh if the weapons were good enough, like the reason u dont use the balance chainsaw is that it has a god awful attack speed and the balance hammer doesnt offer anything other than cleaving potential which is a really mediocre stat. The best example of where you (should) always take the balance option is the combat knife -it's sooooo much better than the crappy fencing one and the only thing u lose out on is 1 attack window from a super last minute parry compared to a normal parry. obviously block weapons currently sucks ass and nobody is denying that needs a rework but afaik, the devs have also said they will do something about it in the future
Watching Heavy, Assault and Vanguard try staying together enough to get armour back is funny. Almost impossible for heavies to get armour back if your team spam execute unless your running melta, as heavy bolter you are usually too far away, leading to you getting chipped down.
I exclusively use heavy bolter and I don't have a problem with it. If you are sitting that far back which you shouldn't be, but if you are then you don't need armour.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 "then you don't need armour" - but then you get chipped down. minoris ranged are very chippy. Also I just use Sniper now. able to massively clutch up in that new operation.
@@WardenNFG "you get chipped down" No, actually I don't. You're not in any position to tell me what happens in my own games. We are not discussing hypotheticals here, I am reporting to you what actually happens. If you are not able to replicate my results, then it is user error. No, they do not chip ME down, so you are doing something wrong. You get chipped down, I do not get chipped down. These are not the same.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 lmao, relax big man. I didn't tell you what happened in your games, your clearly built different and don't get touched. Im saying "you" as in Players, a generalisation. its why I said after that Minoris ranged are very chippy, which they are.
Did the new mission on ruthless, struggled but enjoyed it, then crashed to desktop just as the screen went to black Didn’t count as a completion, it’s my first crash in 140 hours
You are lucky. Last game before the patch was a crash. First game after the patch was a crash at the boss of the new op. More than 50% of my games are crashes and it isn't me.
Well said. It’s game breaking and untenable with pubs. Unfairly punishes half the classes that are the “I’m going to hold this corner, you guys go get the bombs started…or…hey there are two devourers and two snipers way in the back I’m going to make a move on them (proceeds to get dick shot off getting there and then you have no way to recover)” Also makes minoris armor chipping infinitely more dangerous
If they’re gonna introduce this massively important new mechanic, why not give every class a “coherency skill” that makes it interesting/ strategic. For example “Bulwark can always get one bar of armor from majoris” if out of coherency. Just the first bar “Tactical doubles coherency field” “Heavy can increase armor regain in coherency” “Sniper’s can mark for death a target in coherency, sharing in armor gain” “Vanguard and Assault can leave coherency for 10 seconds if they get a kill it’s like they’re in coherency. If they kill a majoris, the timer resets” Easy and fun ways to play the mechanics of the game differently.. I’ve beaten lethal like 4 times now I’m DiddyMidwest(lol yes be4 the other guy) Edit: got the sword and the helmet brothers
By all means - keep the lethal difficulty for the twitchers and streamers - but the pointless debuffs to the ruthless difficulty and the nerfs to fencing weapons are just more examples of them catering to the niche crowd and ruining it for the rest of us. Focus on fixing the bugs, the poor optimization and bolters that feel like firing marshmallows
you are the niche crowd. us who play the game and have maxed out everything don't care. Its you that only play here and there, and don't have any XP but wanna take your level 4 assault into lethal then cry when you lose.. try doing easier modes until you have a few relic weapons and max a few classes.
@@EKk8819equivocado. Yo he maximizado 4 clases y en dificultad 4 ahora es aburrido y desesperante. DIFICULTAD 4 NO 5. Aunque tengas todo a reliquia y la clase al maximo con 2 compañeros al máximo en dificultad 4 es una experiencia asquerosa ahora mismo. Pasamos de 3 o 4 extremis por misión a 12, el doble se oleadas, el doble de snipers, el doble de todo. Infierno en dificultad 4 la hacíamos bien, dificil pero bien en 25 min, ahora tardamos 1 hora y perdemos el 70% de las veces. Somos minoria?? Bueno al igual que con helldivers lo eramos según algunos y el juego a estado a punto de morir por los nerf y buf a enemigos. En unas semanas veremos la mayoria y minoria. La gente como usted solo sabe despreciar a los demás, creyendose las elites de algo y aplaudiendo porque se cierran puertas a otra gente, asi genial le va a ir al juego si. Pagas 70€ por un juego que llegado un dia, te meten un parche que te cambia y te jode toda la experiencia y diversión, maravillos sisisi
@EKk8819 funny how that didnt seem to be the case in helldivers lol. They HAD to come back to the casuals in the end since all the "harcore" players left the game. Casuals outnumber hardcore by a massive amount. If sabre wants a higher playercount then catering to harcore players is not a good idea. Period.
@@EKk8819 285 hours in.. all the good weapons to relic.. all class' to 25 and capped on all tokens and cosmetics.. and I agree with survivor. I uninstalled today and won't be back until they stop with the nerf hammering while not fixing major bugs like game crashes and being stun locked or only being able to play the handful of meta weapons. Not to mention dumb decisions like the coherency garbage which is completely the opposite of how the game was designed to play. Maybe instead of BS "Balance" patches they should work on more content and actual fun game play like fixing the bolters to not feel like I'm firing a pellet gun or making actual stagger on the sponge bob target dummies for enemies in the game.
Finally. An actually objective take on the situation and not rage baiting or going with the trend to hate for views. Thank you for being a reasonable commentator and asking unnecessary questions that just fuel the fire. subbed!
I think the cohesion mechanic is dumb but could be remedied with widening the radius and like you said not ignoring perks or dead teammates. The biggest issue I have with the patch is that lower difficulties are wildly out of balance. I played on an average threat level to begin leveling up a weapon with a level 25 tactical and the volume of enemies, especially majoris, was insane to the point where my performance tanks now as the amount of barbed wire things is crazy.
Well I *was* excited for the new difficulty before I read the patch notes Also I thought they said we would also be getting the volkite pistol with this update but I guess not?
15:35 I think they had to kill the Titan first because it was guarding the towers. Had they destroyed the towers, it would not have had a reason to stay and could have just escaped the range or firing arc of those cannons. I know its headcanon and I don't remember if it was talked about during the mission.
After a year of the clown fiesta that has been the Helldivers 2 balance situation, not a single change they made was as bas as this new group armor mechanic.
as intended. I'm sure the playerbase will grow rapidly and enjoy a long healthy life under such player conditions. lmao, did Helldivers 2 become the Helldivers-2-killer killer?
@@matthewdeklerk3457 don’t think they intended for the gameplay to not be fun. Also not quite sure what your last sentence meant? Did you mean sm2 being the hd2 killer?
@Mr_Big_Head some people unironically called sm2 the "helldivers killer". Redditors smirking saying "bye guys, dead game, I'm gonna play hecking warhammerimo" only to get screwed by the exact same data dev balance brainrot
@@matthewdeklerk3457 ah gotcha. Yeah never understood that, they are vastly different games. Not even remotely similar. I pop back and forth between them for different reasons.
Regarding difficulty, I'm all for having levels of difficulty for those that like that challenging and somewhat 'unfair' experience. I remember completing the campaign solo on angels difficulty before the nerfs that made it easier. It was generally a very challenging and at times unfair, but it felt like a real achievement once it was over (although there was specific in-game achievement for doing this which is a shame). What i don't like about this patch is the forced armor regeneration when only near allies. It is a very bad change, to force players into positions and then 'nerf' there mechanics if they don't comply. It essentially forces both melee and range classes to be out of position and removes any dynamic movement and positioning plays. If the Devs want to give players the incentives to 'stay' together during combat, give us some buffs not nerfs. Maybe some health regen for the executes if done within range of all allies, as armor has already gotten a 10% and 20% debuff in ruthless difficulties and above.
100% agree. I would like them to address the occasional stun-lock animations when taking damage the way the damage animations line up, you just take damage and can’t move. But love it so far. Gonna get a lot of mileage once it’s refined.
EDIT: Just to pop off, i have now solo'ed inferno lethal as assault (after like 30 attempts) and damn does it feel good but my sentiments still stand 1 statement for the rare players that are looking to solo stuff, coherency/tight formation is borderline a deal breaker..Especially when combined with the ranged damage being brutal (like a single enraged devourer i think can down u if u have no armour if u eat the full barrage i think?). like i went from soloing ruthless inferno pretty easily with assault to not being able to even make it to the encampment (that being said only tried like 8 times and will keep trying and learning but still). idk, i dont mind things being brutal (in fact i like it) but i would like sufficient counterplay thats truly counterplay and not just weird weaving in and out of ally range or just face tanking ranged damage and hoping ur armour sustain can match - half the time it's just praying that a random gaunt leaps up at u so u can parry it before ur health gets chunked. no clue what you can even implement to make ranged damage have counterplay that wouldnt break other things.. maybe some improvement to contested health mechanic might work? it will reward u for returning damage properly i guess (not the biggest fan of how it currently works with it being just time window vs damage done but thats more personal opinion)
I do think one thing on termination operation is really annoyed, the poison boss cannon, the poison area can damage you through the bridge(poison up bridge, you under), and lot’s of time the boss spills poison on the wheel or terminal so three Space Marine can only stand there and staring at the poison to wait it disappeared
Hear me out: make the engagements even more challenging, keep armor armor regen outside of squad range but give class-specific bonuses to players (like more HP, damage, ammo etc) if players are within squad coherency range.
Ok, the last part at the end, if people actually paid attention to the missions. The Guns weren't used to shoot the tendrils cause you had to awaken the Machine Spirit in the Sewers which is why you do the whole capture point thing... Man people wanna make fun of shit while being ignorant of the information it gives you to counter why you're making fun of it.
I'm not a fan at all about the patch. If i wanted darktide, macanics I'd play darktide. If people are saying it's too easy, take a white weapon into ruthless and see how long you last. The stun locks are so annoying. weapons/attacks that should stun enemies don't. For a space marine, you feel so squishy. I like the game, but it's very frustrating when all the enemies are just damage sponges and there is little way of getting back HP other then popping stims like a junkie
I like the Coherency idea, but agree that it should be a buff rather than restriction; like, if you have it you get more armor back, or regain ability charge from executes, more damage reduction, etc etc. Then without it you just don't have that, but still have the normal armor regen on executes...?
Fully agree with everything youre saying Love an actual cohesive explanation of the good and bad The subreddit and that are just filled with people whinging about Nerfs Legit saying 'they should just buff the enemies instead' as if that wont lead to horrendous bloat to all stats very quickly
I think something along the line of only gaining half armour back when not next to your battle brothers could be a happy medium for this kind of system. Still encouraging team play but not completely crippling you while being out of range.
I'm a casual player, and the changes to armor and density of groups make it impossible to play even ruthless. Can I make it through the stage? Sure, but it now takes me twice as long and near impossible to do with randos. I only have maybe 2 hours to play each evening, and the added level of difficulty makes it too long and sweaty to get more than maybe two games in. - that's IF we make it through the stage. This is not fun.
Yeah, hold on, being in a last stand situation, micro managing exxecutes at the right time for the invuln windows and armor gain is effectively the only way that's reasonably possible. Thematically, the last space marine of a squad (of primaris minde you) would 100% be raging and slaughtering until his final breath. Hot take, if you're in a last stand situation, you should be buffed to a degree
One nitpick in terms of difficulty, the newest mission, you can't use any weapon other than your pistol if you're the one that has to target the heirophant. Not until you use all the cannon shots, which is VERY painful when you need to clear out tyranids to get some breathing room to lock onto the heirophant. I don't know if this was intentional or not.
I was excited for this update. Ruthless prior to the "easy" update felt good to me. I liked it and still did after they made it easier. But this, I don't like. Coherency most of all. I get people are being overdramatic but everything I hear, I don't want to play Space Marine 2 at all right now. It was so damn enjoyable, especially before the "easy" update. But most of all I don't like the way the community is going. Everywhere I look I see people complaining about the changes and others jumping down their throat telling them to "Quit your bitching." and "Git Gud." I think you said it best; "People are going to want different things out of these types of games and that is okay."
All they had to do to make both super good players and casuals happy was adding Lethal (without tether) and leaving other difficulties as they were. Now everyone is unhappy
I havn't played lethal but I do really enjoy the idea of the squad cohesion, even before you mentioned it's poor implementation I thought of a bunch of issues it could have and it would appear Saber walked into all of them. There are definitely ways it could be improved, maybe a new talent tier which specifically interacts with cohesion. Vanguard can 'keep' cohesion while dealing damage to help with diving, assault could gain a buff to damage/damage reduction when they jump out of cohesion or a separate talent to give themselves/allies armour if they land in their cohesion. There is potential for fun there but it would suck if the cohesion mechanic is a pre-made only feature due to the difficulty.
I don't hate coherency for regen over time because I'm used to it from Dark Tide. I don't like that it hinders gun strike and executions, but I think it would be fine if it was at least restored for the last man standing.
Not buffing bolter just created a much bigger gap between meta and not meta weapons. Lethal doesn’t allow for anything that isn’t Las fusil, melta, power sword or grenade launcher without putting yourself at a huge disadvantage
there are definitely weapons id like to see buffed that they should have gotten around to this patch. but there's a lot of stuff that's viable and fun (like Assault and Thunder Hammer), that plenty of people would argue is not. i dont think its nearly as restrictive as you're saying, I got to the finale with Instigator Bolt Carbine and a Bulwark teammate who didn't know how to heal with banner
@@milkandcookiesTW I was thinking about class that have such a wide gab like heavy right now. Both the plasma and the multi melta are welll suited and in general much better options then the heavy bolter and the new difficulty with so many majoris and extremis up in your face just makes the gap even Deeper. Having a bolter means sacrificing hight damage, aoe damage and stagger. It definitely needs something to compensate
The bolt sniper rifle is not that bad, you can make faster follow up shots. I'd argue chainsword is just as good as power sword and the knife is actually the best melee weapon, I do agree the thunderhammer is garbage since the power sword does what it does but also has the fast mode.
The solution for armor is to make it a spectrum, within 5m +10% armor gain, within 10m +0% gain, within 15m -10% gain, etc. When both teammates are downed, your armor gain should be stunted, not outright removed. You reward teamplay by giving a potent bonus, not by JUST punishing lone wolf shenanigans, but you're also not completely screwing the lone wolf clutch gamers by completely taking away their armor regen. Edit: maybe you can give different percentages based on how many teammates are in proximity, or even what class they are. Imagine if bulwark had an intrinsic perk specifically for this armor system, or sniper and vanguard perks that allow them extra time to leave the circle and still maintain armor uptime for clutch plays.
What they should’ve done with the Coherency is make it a buff, when within a 10m range of team mates. Instead of a debuffer. Like it gives a small damage boast, enemy melee attacks don’t stagger, faster ability regen, etc, something to make sticking together more interesting.
This implementations SHOULD have just been buffs. stick within 25 meters range of your team you gain 15% more damage in total and each execution heals you got 8% of your HP
The lethal exclusive mechanics that is meant to be the hardest difficulty should exclusively be mechanics that actually make it easier? How about you just play ruthless then if you don't like it?
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755Only 1 mechanic*. Taking away the cohesion mechanic and Lethal is still harder obviously. The difficulty is fine otherwise without this 1 terrible mechanic. Limiting the gameplay is just an extremely poor way of introducing difficulty. Difficulty should encourage gameplay, not discourage.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 Don't notice what? The mechanic? Gameplay? Difficulty? Be specific. In case you didn't "notice" the tether mechanic on Lethal, that would be really weird because it has a big HUD icon in the middle of the screen at all times. "Reasonable to conclude user error." As in? Describe this "error"? What are you even talking about.
Even if they dont want to change up the armor coherency thing; give the last brother standing an black ragel buff or smth, boosts his damage and gives a little armor
Simple fix is coherent works while you are all close to each other you can regen armor just be hitting melee attacks while outside it you can only get armor the normal ways we currently have but armor won't regen after a certain time
I might be in the minority, but I really do not like the boss fight. I think it’s kind of a cop out. You can’t really interact with it as I was hoping we could (can’t even get a hit marker on it)and said we have to do some actions that will do the damage for us isn’t what I was necessarily looking for, the mission is great , while the boss is trash 🗑️ 🚮
i only played 2 games on lethal so far and in both games i had the problem that i as an assaul either stay with the team at range and was pretty much useless or fight the enemies and slowy die because the heavy and sniper stood miles away from the enemies and me. I know communication should be able to fix that but with randoms it can get anoying. I think it would be a cool way to make the cohesion make it so you get less armor back if you are far away but not no armor. And they could implement that you need to be in cohesion to get the team perk effects.
09:02 About the whole speedrunning thing. A great way to make people stop speedrunning is to simply make Terminus bosses block passage unless they've been killed. So on Ruthless and Lethal difficulty, you could make it so you have to defeat the Terminus enemy before moving on.
I think that as long as lethal doesn't give you anything that is exclusive. It is fine to be insanely hard. But, I believe once they fix dodging it will be good.
It's got some great stuff. These are my personal complaints. 1.) No respawn at checkpoints. This does nothing but waste a huge amount of time. 2.) Tight Formation. Not a fan. If they keep it, they could improve it with the next point. 3.) During last stand you have no way to get armor unless you're bulwark. But players have 5 minute respawn and you can reduce by 30 sec per major kill. Let the final person get armor back. If they did nothing but do point 1 and 3 I have no further complaints.
Vanguard, bulwark, and assault or heavy is my go to team for lethal now. I love it when we have a good sniper but on lethal a sniper random is too much of a liability
if they need to keep tight formations, extend the range and allow perks to heal armour out of formations. a higher difficulty should NOT invalidate choices or perks.
Maybe instead of no Armour Regen when not in Coherency, you still get armour from minoris parries and executions, _but instead_ when you're in Coherency Armour Regen gets _boosted_? It rewards you for sticking together but doesn't punish you for straying, because the enemies do that for you... or something idk
Yeah they tried to imitate Darktide with the coherency (very good system in DT imo) but didn´t consider the implications with their combat system properly. Btw props for the AoE music :P
I think their mistakes can be easily fixed which why I'm not super worried. I think Lethal Difficulty should be this: - Supply Caches Can only be refilled once per player. - Majoris and Extremis Multiple Extremis can spawn, aswell as more majoris overall. - More spawn Intervals. I don't think Lethal needs to be any harder than this. There could always be another difficulty in the future.
Also on Ruthless. The aror thing and the massive mods with Extremis are also in ruthless. So for the average player like me, leveling weapons this is going to be hell.
100% agreed on the coherence issues big yuck from my pov it doesn't work considering I was walking through the previous hardest this is now a nice challenge but it needs tweaks
Lethal is alright, they just need to buff the coherency range by 50% and extend the time it takes to lose the buff while out of range. Giving more buffs to coherency would be nice as well, maybe unique to each class
It is funny how Assault has gotten a chance to shine with this new difficulty, I do say it is one of the best classes and it shows how his two skills gun shots, make up for the rest of his lacking toolkit, just wish it wasnt pretty much his inly two worth skills
Negative incentives are an option, but instead of the spray bottle, why not offer a treat? Stick together and you get an armor and damage boost multiplier thr longer you stay within a small radius of eachother.
Lethal should describe the situation you're in, not the mechanics that are working against you. The possible fixes you mentioned sound like they'll hit the spot. At the end of the day, the Emporer protects.
They should jus give armor and/or damage boost when you stick together, instead of a penalty for not. Should be a benefit to team work, not a punishment for the lack of. Too many situations in this game where splitting up is nessecary...but I agree with everything you said, and alot of what you said about the beams thru walls and hard to read, I thought I was the only one that had issue with that 😂😂😂
Agree with some, but the armour regen away from the team is on a timer. I reckon it makes the exciting plays more exciting. You have to get in there, do the shit and get back to the bros. For stuff like the bosses I agree it feels weird. I say this as an assault player. Maybe we should keep our gunstrike perk to make it special again. It became meh after the armour regen off parries thing. The gunstrike perk working out of coherency would bring it back to being a great perk.
I finished Inferno and Decapitation on Lethal yesterday with only 1 teammate. I need to feel how hard the chaos missions first to make an accurate argument
@@H2ORaccoon i finished all mission on Ruthless before the version 3 update. So the lethal missions feels like the old ruthless but with more extremis and no wave bar thing to strategize if it gets into orange
Coherency should be a bonus, not a punishment, maybe a slow Regen of armor, or just reduced cool downs, maybe DMG resistance, something like that, but def not a punishment
What about a benefit to players within 10 meters of each other like either 12.5% or 25% per nearby teammate increase to melee damage for a total of either 25% or 50% bonus melee damage or a reduction to ranged attacks
I'm in pretty much full agreement with you. Lethal is great, but the coherency mechanic needs an overhaul something fierce. The core design of the game very clearly was not made with the coherency mechanic in mind, and it makes Lethal feel really, really bad. Even something as simple as "you regen half armor instead of 0 when out of range" would go a long way. Personally, if they feel like they need a mechanic like this, I'd prefer something like "everyone gets a -50% modifier on armor gen. When you damage an enemy, allies within ~10m of you or the damaged enemy have the modifier removed for 2s". Incentivize people to work together and focus on the same targets, without letting the large volumes of unavoidable chip damage become the single biggest threat in the entire game.
While the cohesion modifier is intresting its too dumb and annoying for certain class, especially melee classes and sniper. They should make lethal difficulty have a rotating modifier and rewards to keep things moving and fresh something like destiny does with Grandmaster strikes
I don't think the coherency makes sense from a game play or lore/theme perspective. In Darktide you play as a (relatively) normal person and your toughness is directly related to having allies near you that you can depend on. Space Marines know no fear. They can operate independently without losing their nerve. It doesn't make logical sense in the first place that killing things gives you "armor" but taking that away kills clutch potential they said they wanted to include. Even still, in Darktide you have other options to restore toughness even when out of the coherency.
Played some lethal last night, was not a big fan lmao. The armor reduction and coherency was bad. Idk if they should have changed it for the lower difficulties either, other than maybe ruthless, but its good. Hopefully they’ll listen to some feedback and tweak it a little
I can absolutely go inline with your summary. the coherency model is a nice idea but makes certain classes inviable for their core role! Also being animation locked without eyeframes (gunstrikes!!!) is just so much more annoying in this diff. A core survival mechanic like that should not be punished for using it! Also the range dmg of random goons is unbearable for some classes (assault!). But that aside I am still happy to have lethal as a challange. last but not least: yes, REWORK THOSE FING ZOANTHROPE GARBAGE ATTACKS!!!!!
Yeah now when I'm playing assault and my sniper is busy spamming laser rifle rounds into the gaunt horde to up his kill count instead of target the firing squad of snipers and I have no choice but to kill them myself I don't get any armor because I had to go away from the team, and thus are punished for trying to help my team.
Remove the negative and make your armor regen .5 sec after per 1 sec in coherency? Meaning if you stay nerf each other you can start regen armor 33 % fastger then normal when not taking hits.
Geez, the no armor gain on gun strikes and executions when your the only one left thing is BAD. Def ain't gonna touch Lethal until that's fixed at least.
Not to mention there's not really much of ANY reason to go into Lethal difficulty aside for the cosmetics. And that only needs 1 Lethal clear per mission. After you're done with that, there's no real point other than being a person that enjoys that level of challenge. I'm not. I'd rather GET something out of each clear, and Lethal doesn't offer anything enticing since it's all still Relic armory data. The extra exp is redundant since we'll probably need to go in with maxed weapons and characters anyways. I really would have loved a new weapon rarity higher than Relic to go along with Lethal.
Yup me too I play as a sniper so I'm screwed like super screwed 😢
@@nateklempner561Just saw you one another space marines 2 video ranting lol
The reason to play it is the challenge, that's why its the hardest difficulty what a stupid thing to say💀
@nateklempner561 thought the same thing but then I realised people would start crying how they can't get the new tier etc. I think the devs know this so they just make it a optional challenge for cosmetics, so noone will cry how they are gate keeping the game content THEY PAID FOR!! Needs like 1 or 2 tweaks mainly titan formation but ya its for fun don't have to think much about it
Didn't even know you could get squashed by the Tyrannocyte.
me neither. fun way to learn
@@milkandcookiesTW Haven't been able to play the last op on high difficulty because the bio titan fight causes severe lag spikes when it attacks but it's a ton a fun IMO and a cool fight
Just causally walking then boom
It happened to me on story mode lol
@@milkandcookiesTWdidn’t think such a thing was possible since they don’t spawn on the Inferno Operations mission during the factory crane loading phase if you happen to stand at their spawn location.
The good: game is noticeably harder
The Bad: removing armor gain when not in range of allies
The Ugly: getting gang graped by a trio of lictors when I was told by a reliable source that “lictors hunt alone”
Hold up. Punishing players for not sticking to coherency, nerfing the almost magical parry window, discrediting Titus' claims about lictors... I knew it. Leandros is the designer of this patch!
The only thing I don't like about the new difficulty is the coherency thing. I personally find it a lot of fun having several extremes show up at once, makes it a lot more interesting and tense. Plus since this is a challenge difficulty with almost no incentive other than the difficulty or completionist purposes, I think it's fine if the enemy composition is overwhelming, and even goes against things said by Titus, for the sake of giving a proper challenge to those that want to play the difficulty. Removing the ability for people to play their class properly and hinder solo clutch opportunities with the coherence is not a fun or fair way to add challenge though
I love AI DIrector ace in the hole mean in form of sending 3 lictors at the players! Its hard but so fun when it happend, especially with all chaos on voice chat when everyone scream 'lictor!'. XD
@@pigzard01parry got buffed now it will parry when you press the button instead of a second or 2 after you press it
Lictors hunt alone until the hive mind tells them not to.
The cohesion mechanic feels completely counter to the entire feel and flow of combat they have established.
been playing lethal with my buddies. Has worked out pretty well for us so far
@@svalfish1716 don't think that's the argument. Can you still win ? Yes. But since release, the game allows you to express your skills with or without being near your group. It's just silly how adding difficulty into the game isn't just more damage and more enemies, but arbitrarily adding a proximity system. That's honestly so bizarre.
If grouping up is the way some players go through ruthless, good on them, but forcing players to be together is hand holding. Once you're past substantial, you should be able to figure out what works for yourself, as a lobby and as a community
Don't even get me started on the ammo system...
I should die because I suck, not because I wasn't within hugging distance from my brothers
Agreed. It’s kinda, “what’s the point” feeling. Either an oversight or something they intended that does in fact make it difficult. Just not the way people want to play it. I think they fix it. They seem to be on it.
@svalfish1716 if the players play how their classes are intended then its completely useless. Bulwark or assault charging in while sniper or heavy cover from the back, is how its meant to be played but now the sniper has to be in melee range? The heavy doesn't even have a really melee attack and 2/3 of his weapons need to be held down to shoot.
@@anthonyg1307 as a heavy main, im glad someone noticed our finger situation
I wished that the “Coherency” system would, if you’re in range, you get a boost to weapon damage and armor recharge rate.
Yeah, Darktide did that before and it was a smart way to encourage you to stick to the team
Yeah, and the range need to be heavily increased or modified. I don’t want an umbilical cord attached to my teammates. That limits player expression, which is what the combat is all about🤷♂️.
@@kamiya4700game benefits alot from linear map to, artfical grouping is done super well in darktide, left4dead and deeprock unlike space marine and helldivers 2
I think it would be or like Darktide or the fact that you regain only jalf bar and not a full one if you are too far, allowing you to still be able to hold if the other temmates die😅
So you could cheese it?? Lol sure
This is Zackinator813…. I gotta say when I saw you get crushed by the pod I was laughing so hard I almost could not get to you for the revive. That reaction of yours was priceless. No idea that could happen.
I agree that coherency needs some tweaks. Honestly difficulty overall is not that punishing but the coherency oversight when you are by yourself if just criminal. I had a moment with Sparty later in the day when I was last alive. Slowly got chipped away even though some of the my plays were really clutch. Ruined a great moment that would have previously been possible. Great overall vid!!!
They made Lethal difficulty mostly annoying, not difficult. You can perform perfectly but if don't have your teammates right at your hip you won't be able to regain any armor, armor already needed a buff.. Bolters needed a buff, now they suck more because everything is a bullet sponge and ammo from the crate is limited
@@clevergoblin1714I think this is a bit hyperbolic but not unfounded.
@@zerk813 Nah, just hyperbolic. He says they're more of a bullet sponge now when they're not, so he doesn't know what he's talking. Bolters are fine if you know how to use them, they're not as bad as people say but he thinks they're rubbish. He's complaining about the ammo, but never have I managed to use the whole box even when I'm trying to waste as much of it as possible as a heavy so that's not even a factor. Then he says armour already NEEDED more buffs BEFORE lethal? "You can perform perfectly but..." If he's playing perfectly, then I must be a god. Hyperbolic.
bolters and armor arent rly the issue imo it rly is just enemy jank and the coherency mechanic
I hate the coherency system. It was totally unnecessary. Honestly I rather fight packs of lictors and raveners a third as often as warriors than deal with it in pub groups. I feel like the system is completely counter-intuitive to the games combat system. My suggested change is you take like 50% more damage or something if they want to keep it in instead of not being able to get armor back.
Legit just make it 10% more damage taken when too far and 10% more damage done when close. Its just not fun at all to be arbitrarily nerfed like that. What if I wanna play my Las Fusil Sniper? I just get screwed over big time for doing what my class is supposed to do. If your team is Sniper Assault and Tactical then everyone wants to play at different ranges and nobody feels good either waiting for other people or being forced to keep up with the quick classes. TBH I think it should be deleted entirely since multiple extremis spawns and not knowing when the spawns are coming already make Lethal much harder than any other difficulty
Spot on take , per usual. Coherency should buff to bring players together not debuff if we are having fun and wander a few extra steps to the left.
Having played some Lethal missions, I find the armour reduction and coherency (both individually and together) to be supremely dog shit. Should never have even made it TO the drawing board, let alone into the bloody game.
Yes sirrrrrr
In a way, it does make it incredibly difficult. Just not the way we want. Maybe that was their reasoning? I believe they’ll fix it though. There’s no outlandish monetization, just a good game to the people, which is eventually what will come. Patients brothers. Compared to almost every other studio/publisher to release a game, they’re killing it.
“See you out there getting downed because we currently can’t replenish armor brothers👊🤙!!!”
honestly everything is fine, I love the new lethal but if I could change anything it would be let the armor recharge normally, cmon!!
@@_Channel1_ Well put lol. Like outside of the armour changes, I was having a decent chunk of fun with the new difficulty, it gets your heart racing, but the tethering and armour reduction kills it for me so much. And please, Saber, buff my beloved bolter weapons. Just a crumb of buffing.
It’s like youre playing the hard mode or something
Coherency make sense in tabletop because you have specialized squads (squads of scouts marine, assault marine, etc...), here we can't have a full squad of one class, and ppl are forced to play a certain way that isn't how you're supposed to play your class just to get your defensive mechanics back, it's just poor game design and shouldn't exist, no matter how cute it is to make a reference to tabletop rules
Tey need to hotfix this shit, gettin armor from kills and gun strike is CORE GAMPLAY u learn this shif even from turtorial missions 😂
If i lose let me lose cuz i did not dodge on time or parry, but not like this
cry about it, you have no business in lethal mode I guarantee you that..
@@EKk8819 helldivers defenders also said that before but look what happened the game got review bomb
@@EKk8819 I've been crying all night now, I don't have any more strength, you want to play one mission so I can see how the boss plays, so I can feel the victory for once 😢😢
@@EKk8819 as a sniper main this mechanic sucks. Especially since your kit is more for range then close quarters.
Being punished for the actions of other players should rarely (if ever) be a thing in game mechanics. Being unable to generate armour because a random player moves out of range is lazy game design and absolutely unfun. Scrapping it entirely would be my preference. At worst, add a timer that begins when range is exceeded and enforces the mechanic when it ticks to zero. As the author mentioned, the mechanic forces you to play in suboptimal ways which punish some classes more than others. In a game with only six classes, having a full half of them be preferentially punished compared to the others is awful, especially when theres another mechanic that enforces class diversity.
Not really, encouraging teamwork is fine, the problem here is how they did it, rather than nerfing for splitting up, it should just buff
The coherency mechanic should just be a buff, not a punishment for playing certain classes. Whoever implemented this patch should seriously look at proper quality control.
Great points in this one could not have said it better.
As always people are being overly dramatic, it really only needs a few tweaks to go from decent to really good.
But i do hope they get around to actually buffing some weapons isntead of nerfing them. Also the whole balance/fencing/block thing need some rework i dont see why you would ever take a weapons where you cant parry.
100% agree. They decided that parry was going to be a huge part of their game. Whether that be getting big damage gun strikes or the main function of gaining armor back, it's super important. To that end why would you ever run a non-fencing weapon? Like I get that balance and block weapons typically have better damage/speed/cleave whatever, but all the stats in the world don't make up for the fact that you lose parry ability. Running a block weapon and a Lictor shows up? Hope you have a fucking teammate cuz YOU ain't killing that lol.
Honestly part of me is kind of amazed how much reputational damage Hell Divers 2 did to the concept of nerfing things. It feels like ever since that several month long fiasco people are now incredibly paranoid that any patch nerfs more things than buffs them, even if exclusive to one new difficulty mode, is going to result in a never ending cycle of anti-fun nerfs.
@@thelegendarynarwhal2931 balance is absolutely fine tbh if the weapons were good enough, like the reason u dont use the balance chainsaw is that it has a god awful attack speed and the balance hammer doesnt offer anything other than cleaving potential which is a really mediocre stat. The best example of where you (should) always take the balance option is the combat knife -it's sooooo much better than the crappy fencing one and the only thing u lose out on is 1 attack window from a super last minute parry compared to a normal parry.
obviously block weapons currently sucks ass and nobody is denying that needs a rework but afaik, the devs have also said they will do something about it in the future
My only issue with this update is the tether mechanic. Other than that I’m loving the challenge.
@@trevordavis6830 Look how they are running around screaming and shitting themselves in Reddit. I wish those fuckers never touched SM at all
The whole Coherency debacle is a clear sign that the Design team didnt playtest this feature anywhere near enough!
Watching Heavy, Assault and Vanguard try staying together enough to get armour back is funny. Almost impossible for heavies to get armour back if your team spam execute unless your running melta, as heavy bolter you are usually too far away, leading to you getting chipped down.
I exclusively use heavy bolter and I don't have a problem with it. If you are sitting that far back which you shouldn't be, but if you are then you don't need armour.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 "then you don't need armour" - but then you get chipped down. minoris ranged are very chippy.
Also I just use Sniper now. able to massively clutch up in that new operation.
@@WardenNFG "you get chipped down"
No, actually I don't. You're not in any position to tell me what happens in my own games. We are not discussing hypotheticals here, I am reporting to you what actually happens. If you are not able to replicate my results, then it is user error. No, they do not chip ME down, so you are doing something wrong. You get chipped down, I do not get chipped down. These are not the same.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 lmao, relax big man. I didn't tell you what happened in your games, your clearly built different and don't get touched. Im saying "you" as in Players, a generalisation. its why I said after that Minoris ranged are very chippy, which they are.
@@WardenNFG "relax big man"
Don't see things that are not there. If you are offended, then turn the computer off and go outside.
Did the new mission on ruthless, struggled but enjoyed it, then crashed to desktop just as the screen went to black
Didn’t count as a completion, it’s my first crash in 140 hours
You are lucky. Last game before the patch was a crash. First game after the patch was a crash at the boss of the new op. More than 50% of my games are crashes and it isn't me.
Same! First crash ever since lunch
op is great, lethal is great, multiple extremis at once is scary fun, coherency needs to be changed or removed.
Well said. It’s game breaking and untenable with pubs. Unfairly punishes half the classes that are the “I’m going to hold this corner, you guys go get the bombs started…or…hey there are two devourers and two snipers way in the back I’m going to make a move on them (proceeds to get dick shot off getting there and then you have no way to recover)”
Also makes minoris armor chipping infinitely more dangerous
If they’re gonna introduce this massively important new mechanic, why not give every class a “coherency skill” that makes it interesting/ strategic. For example
“Bulwark can always get one bar of armor from majoris” if out of coherency. Just the first bar
“Tactical doubles coherency field”
“Heavy can increase armor regain in coherency”
“Sniper’s can mark for death a target in coherency, sharing in armor gain”
“Vanguard and Assault can leave coherency for 10 seconds if they get a kill it’s like they’re in coherency. If they kill a majoris, the timer resets”
Easy and fun ways to play the mechanics of the game differently..
I’ve beaten lethal like 4 times now
I’m DiddyMidwest(lol yes be4 the other guy)
Edit: got the sword and the helmet brothers
By all means - keep the lethal difficulty for the twitchers and streamers - but the pointless debuffs to the ruthless difficulty and the nerfs to fencing weapons are just more examples of them catering to the niche crowd and ruining it for the rest of us. Focus on fixing the bugs, the poor optimization and bolters that feel like firing marshmallows
you are the niche crowd. us who play the game and have maxed out everything don't care. Its you that only play here and there, and don't have any XP but wanna take your level 4 assault into lethal then cry when you lose.. try doing easier modes until you have a few relic weapons and max a few classes.
@@EKk8819equivocado. Yo he maximizado 4 clases y en dificultad 4 ahora es aburrido y desesperante. DIFICULTAD 4 NO 5. Aunque tengas todo a reliquia y la clase al maximo con 2 compañeros al máximo en dificultad 4 es una experiencia asquerosa ahora mismo.
Pasamos de 3 o 4 extremis por misión a 12, el doble se oleadas, el doble de snipers, el doble de todo. Infierno en dificultad 4 la hacíamos bien, dificil pero bien en 25 min, ahora tardamos 1 hora y perdemos el 70% de las veces.
Somos minoria?? Bueno al igual que con helldivers lo eramos según algunos y el juego a estado a punto de morir por los nerf y buf a enemigos. En unas semanas veremos la mayoria y minoria. La gente como usted solo sabe despreciar a los demás, creyendose las elites de algo y aplaudiendo porque se cierran puertas a otra gente, asi genial le va a ir al juego si. Pagas 70€ por un juego que llegado un dia, te meten un parche que te cambia y te jode toda la experiencia y diversión, maravillos sisisi
@EKk8819 funny how that didnt seem to be the case in helldivers lol. They HAD to come back to the casuals in the end since all the "harcore" players left the game. Casuals outnumber hardcore by a massive amount. If sabre wants a higher playercount then catering to harcore players is not a good idea. Period.
@@EKk8819 285 hours in.. all the good weapons to relic.. all class' to 25 and capped on all tokens and cosmetics.. and I agree with survivor. I uninstalled today and won't be back until they stop with the nerf hammering while not fixing major bugs like game crashes and being stun locked or only being able to play the handful of meta weapons. Not to mention dumb decisions like the coherency garbage which is completely the opposite of how the game was designed to play. Maybe instead of BS "Balance" patches they should work on more content and actual fun game play like fixing the bolters to not feel like I'm firing a pellet gun or making actual stagger on the sponge bob target dummies for enemies in the game.
@@TheMaskOfBlackDude EKk is going around defending this trash update. Nothing you say will convince his sweat ass. Agreed though in all points.
WE DID NOT NEED IT HARDER WE NEEDED MORE CONTENT
Finally. An actually objective take on the situation and not rage baiting or going with the trend to hate for views. Thank you for being a reasonable commentator and asking unnecessary questions that just fuel the fire. subbed!
I think the cohesion mechanic is dumb but could be remedied with widening the radius and like you said not ignoring perks or dead teammates. The biggest issue I have with the patch is that lower difficulties are wildly out of balance. I played on an average threat level to begin leveling up a weapon with a level 25 tactical and the volume of enemies, especially majoris, was insane to the point where my performance tanks now as the amount of barbed wire things is crazy.
Well I *was* excited for the new difficulty before I read the patch notes
Also I thought they said we would also be getting the volkite pistol with this update but I guess not?
15:35 I think they had to kill the Titan first because it was guarding the towers. Had they destroyed the towers, it would not have had a reason to stay and could have just escaped the range or firing arc of those cannons. I know its headcanon and I don't remember if it was talked about during the mission.
After a year of the clown fiesta that has been the Helldivers 2 balance situation, not a single change they made was as bas as this new group armor mechanic.
Tight bond mechanic makes gameplay feel horrendous, I can beat lethal but I don’t have fun doing it.
as intended. I'm sure the playerbase will grow rapidly and enjoy a long healthy life under such player conditions. lmao, did Helldivers 2 become the Helldivers-2-killer killer?
@@matthewdeklerk3457 don’t think they intended for the gameplay to not be fun. Also not quite sure what your last sentence meant? Did you mean sm2 being the hd2 killer?
@@Mr_Big_Head He has brain rot methinks.
@Mr_Big_Head some people unironically called sm2 the "helldivers killer". Redditors smirking saying "bye guys, dead game, I'm gonna play hecking warhammerimo" only to get screwed by the exact same data dev balance brainrot
@@matthewdeklerk3457 ah gotcha. Yeah never understood that, they are vastly different games. Not even remotely similar. I pop back and forth between them for different reasons.
Regarding difficulty, I'm all for having levels of difficulty for those that like that challenging and somewhat 'unfair' experience.
I remember completing the campaign solo on angels difficulty before the nerfs that made it easier. It was generally a very challenging and at times unfair, but it felt like a real achievement once it was over (although there was specific in-game achievement for doing this which is a shame).
What i don't like about this patch is the forced armor regeneration when only near allies. It is a very bad change, to force players into positions and then 'nerf' there mechanics if they don't comply. It essentially forces both melee and range classes to be out of position and removes any dynamic movement and positioning plays.
If the Devs want to give players the incentives to 'stay' together during combat, give us some buffs not nerfs. Maybe some health regen for the executes if done within range of all allies, as armor has already gotten a 10% and 20% debuff in ruthless difficulties and above.
100% agree. I would like them to address the occasional stun-lock animations when taking damage the way the damage animations line up, you just take damage and can’t move. But love it so far. Gonna get a lot of mileage once it’s refined.
EDIT: Just to pop off, i have now solo'ed inferno lethal as assault (after like 30 attempts) and damn does it feel good but my sentiments still stand
1 statement for the rare players that are looking to solo stuff, coherency/tight formation is borderline a deal breaker..Especially when combined with the ranged damage being brutal (like a single enraged devourer i think can down u if u have no armour if u eat the full barrage i think?). like i went from soloing ruthless inferno pretty easily with assault to not being able to even make it to the encampment (that being said only tried like 8 times and will keep trying and learning but still).
idk, i dont mind things being brutal (in fact i like it) but i would like sufficient counterplay thats truly counterplay and not just weird weaving in and out of ally range or just face tanking ranged damage and hoping ur armour sustain can match - half the time it's just praying that a random gaunt leaps up at u so u can parry it before ur health gets chunked. no clue what you can even implement to make ranged damage have counterplay that wouldnt break other things.. maybe some improvement to contested health mechanic might work? it will reward u for returning damage properly i guess (not the biggest fan of how it currently works with it being just time window vs damage done but thats more personal opinion)
I do think one thing on termination operation is really annoyed, the poison boss cannon, the poison area can damage you through the bridge(poison up bridge, you under), and lot’s of time the boss spills poison on the wheel or terminal so three Space Marine can only stand there and staring at the poison to wait it disappeared
For classes like sniper or heavy, who tend to operate away from the squad, coherencey is a death sentence and runs counter to how those classes play.
Hear me out: make the engagements even more challenging, keep armor armor regen outside of squad range but give class-specific bonuses to players (like more HP, damage, ammo etc) if players are within squad coherency range.
Ok, the last part at the end, if people actually paid attention to the missions. The Guns weren't used to shoot the tendrils cause you had to awaken the Machine Spirit in the Sewers which is why you do the whole capture point thing... Man people wanna make fun of shit while being ignorant of the information it gives you to counter why you're making fun of it.
the new modifier is also a window for griefers and trolls
So don’t play with them? Lethal isn’t for playing with randos
@@DL-cs2cjdont be stupid man
@@DL-cs2cj So in other words, screw people who don't have friends to play with.
@@DL-cs2cj Hey maybe don't post dumb things next time.
@@DL-cs2cj L take lil bro.
I'm not a fan at all about the patch. If i wanted darktide, macanics I'd play darktide. If people are saying it's too easy, take a white weapon into ruthless and see how long you last. The stun locks are so annoying. weapons/attacks that should stun enemies don't. For a space marine, you feel so squishy. I like the game, but it's very frustrating when all the enemies are just damage sponges and there is little way of getting back HP other then popping stims like a junkie
A-friggin-men. Frankly im shocked at the success of this game because the gameplay is just crap.
I like the Coherency idea, but agree that it should be a buff rather than restriction; like, if you have it you get more armor back, or regain ability charge from executes, more damage reduction, etc etc. Then without it you just don't have that, but still have the normal armor regen on executes...?
Fully agree with everything youre saying
Love an actual cohesive explanation of the good and bad
The subreddit and that are just filled with people whinging about Nerfs
Legit saying 'they should just buff the enemies instead' as if that wont lead to horrendous bloat to all stats very quickly
I think something along the line of only gaining half armour back when not next to your battle brothers could be a happy medium for this kind of system. Still encouraging team play but not completely crippling you while being out of range.
I'm a casual player, and the changes to armor and density of groups make it impossible to play even ruthless. Can I make it through the stage? Sure, but it now takes me twice as long and near impossible to do with randos. I only have maybe 2 hours to play each evening, and the added level of difficulty makes it too long and sweaty to get more than maybe two games in. - that's IF we make it through the stage. This is not fun.
Yeah, hold on, being in a last stand situation, micro managing exxecutes at the right time for the invuln windows and armor gain is effectively the only way that's reasonably possible. Thematically, the last space marine of a squad (of primaris minde you) would 100% be raging and slaughtering until his final breath. Hot take, if you're in a last stand situation, you should be buffed to a degree
One nitpick in terms of difficulty, the newest mission, you can't use any weapon other than your pistol if you're the one that has to target the heirophant. Not until you use all the cannon shots, which is VERY painful when you need to clear out tyranids to get some breathing room to lock onto the heirophant. I don't know if this was intentional or not.
I was excited for this update. Ruthless prior to the "easy" update felt good to me. I liked it and still did after they made it easier. But this, I don't like. Coherency most of all. I get people are being overdramatic but everything I hear, I don't want to play Space Marine 2 at all right now. It was so damn enjoyable, especially before the "easy" update. But most of all I don't like the way the community is going. Everywhere I look I see people complaining about the changes and others jumping down their throat telling them to "Quit your bitching." and "Git Gud." I think you said it best; "People are going to want different things out of these types of games and that is okay."
All they had to do to make both super good players and casuals happy was adding Lethal (without tether) and leaving other difficulties as they were. Now everyone is unhappy
The lethal has grown on me! It’s freakin hard, your squad has to be on their A game, hit their blocks, work closely together, and time your fights.
I havn't played lethal but I do really enjoy the idea of the squad cohesion, even before you mentioned it's poor implementation I thought of a bunch of issues it could have and it would appear Saber walked into all of them. There are definitely ways it could be improved, maybe a new talent tier which specifically interacts with cohesion. Vanguard can 'keep' cohesion while dealing damage to help with diving, assault could gain a buff to damage/damage reduction when they jump out of cohesion or a separate talent to give themselves/allies armour if they land in their cohesion. There is potential for fun there but it would suck if the cohesion mechanic is a pre-made only feature due to the difficulty.
I don't hate coherency for regen over time because I'm used to it from Dark Tide. I don't like that it hinders gun strike and executions, but I think it would be fine if it was at least restored for the last man standing.
Not buffing bolter just created a much bigger gap between meta and not meta weapons. Lethal doesn’t allow for anything that isn’t Las fusil, melta, power sword or grenade launcher without putting yourself at a huge disadvantage
there are definitely weapons id like to see buffed that they should have gotten around to this patch. but there's a lot of stuff that's viable and fun (like Assault and Thunder Hammer), that plenty of people would argue is not. i dont think its nearly as restrictive as you're saying, I got to the finale with Instigator Bolt Carbine and a Bulwark teammate who didn't know how to heal with banner
@@milkandcookiesTW I was thinking about class that have such a wide gab like heavy right now. Both the plasma and the multi melta are welll suited and in general much better options then the heavy bolter and the new difficulty with so many majoris and extremis up in your face just makes the gap even Deeper. Having a bolter means sacrificing hight damage, aoe damage and stagger. It definitely needs something to compensate
@@milkandcookiesTW plasma on tactical for the win!
@@hknova683 You think they're better than heavy bolter because you don't understand the heavy bolter.
The bolt sniper rifle is not that bad, you can make faster follow up shots. I'd argue chainsword is just as good as power sword and the knife is actually the best melee weapon, I do agree the thunderhammer is garbage since the power sword does what it does but also has the fast mode.
The solution for armor is to make it a spectrum, within 5m +10% armor gain, within 10m +0% gain, within 15m -10% gain, etc. When both teammates are downed, your armor gain should be stunted, not outright removed. You reward teamplay by giving a potent bonus, not by JUST punishing lone wolf shenanigans, but you're also not completely screwing the lone wolf clutch gamers by completely taking away their armor regen.
Edit: maybe you can give different percentages based on how many teammates are in proximity, or even what class they are. Imagine if bulwark had an intrinsic perk specifically for this armor system, or sniper and vanguard perks that allow them extra time to leave the circle and still maintain armor uptime for clutch plays.
What they should’ve done with the Coherency is make it a buff, when within a 10m range of team mates.
Instead of a debuffer.
Like it gives a small damage boast, enemy melee attacks don’t stagger, faster ability regen, etc, something to make sticking together more interesting.
Coherency is so dumb
This implementations SHOULD have just been buffs. stick within 25 meters range of your team you gain 15% more damage in total and each execution heals you got 8% of your HP
The lethal exclusive mechanics that is meant to be the hardest difficulty should exclusively be mechanics that actually make it easier? How about you just play ruthless then if you don't like it?
It's definitely annoying that Bulwark and Vanguard are the only classes with an ability to restore HP.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755Only 1 mechanic*. Taking away the cohesion mechanic and Lethal is still harder obviously. The difficulty is fine otherwise without this 1 terrible mechanic.
Limiting the gameplay is just an extremely poor way of introducing difficulty. Difficulty should encourage gameplay, not discourage.
@@OVO_Blackface I don't notice it. Reasonable to conclude user error.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 Don't notice what? The mechanic? Gameplay? Difficulty? Be specific.
In case you didn't "notice" the tether mechanic on Lethal, that would be really weird because it has a big HUD icon in the middle of the screen at all times.
"Reasonable to conclude user error." As in? Describe this "error"? What are you even talking about.
Even if they dont want to change up the armor coherency thing; give the last brother standing an black ragel buff or smth, boosts his damage and gives a little armor
Simple fix is coherent works while you are all close to each other you can regen armor just be hitting melee attacks while outside it you can only get armor the normal ways we currently have but armor won't regen after a certain time
I might be in the minority, but I really do not like the boss fight. I think it’s kind of a cop out. You can’t really interact with it as I was hoping we could (can’t even get a hit marker on it)and said we have to do some actions that will do the damage for us isn’t what I was necessarily looking for, the mission is great , while the boss is trash 🗑️ 🚮
Glad to hear someone calling out the jank...it's really sapping away the fun for me
i only played 2 games on lethal so far and in both games i had the problem that i as an assaul either stay with the team at range and was pretty much useless or fight the enemies and slowy die because the heavy and sniper stood miles away from the enemies and me.
I know communication should be able to fix that but with randoms it can get anoying.
I think it would be a cool way to make the cohesion make it so you get less armor back if you are far away but not no armor.
And they could implement that you need to be in cohesion to get the team perk effects.
Anyone else suffering lots of lag despite good ping?
Yes sometimes
this game has some of the worst servers I have ever played on
09:02
About the whole speedrunning thing.
A great way to make people stop speedrunning is to simply make Terminus bosses block passage unless they've been killed.
So on Ruthless and Lethal difficulty, you could make it so you have to defeat the Terminus enemy before moving on.
Make team perks coherency based, armour regens more slowly outside of it, and maybe a mild damage buff inside. Just a basic idea
Fun Fact, In Darktide some classes have the cohericy upgrades range, specially the Ogyrn class
I think that as long as lethal doesn't give you anything that is exclusive. It is fine to be insanely hard. But, I believe once they fix dodging it will be good.
It's got some great stuff. These are my personal complaints.
1.) No respawn at checkpoints. This does nothing but waste a huge amount of time.
2.) Tight Formation. Not a fan. If they keep it, they could improve it with the next point.
3.) During last stand you have no way to get armor unless you're bulwark. But players have 5 minute respawn and you can reduce by 30 sec per major kill. Let the final person get armor back.
If they did nothing but do point 1 and 3 I have no further complaints.
Vanguard, bulwark, and assault or heavy is my go to team for lethal now. I love it when we have a good sniper but on lethal a sniper random is too much of a liability
if they need to keep tight formations, extend the range and allow perks to heal armour out of formations. a higher difficulty should NOT invalidate choices or perks.
Maybe instead of no Armour Regen when not in Coherency, you still get armour from minoris parries and executions, _but instead_ when you're in Coherency Armour Regen gets _boosted_? It rewards you for sticking together but doesn't punish you for straying, because the enemies do that for you... or something idk
Yeah they tried to imitate Darktide with the coherency (very good system in DT imo) but didn´t consider the implications with their combat system properly.
Btw props for the AoE music :P
I think their mistakes can be easily fixed which why I'm not super worried.
I think Lethal Difficulty should be this:
- Supply Caches
Can only be refilled once per player.
- Majoris and Extremis
Multiple Extremis can spawn, aswell as more majoris overall.
- More spawn Intervals.
I don't think Lethal needs to be any harder than this.
There could always be another difficulty in the future.
Also on Ruthless. The aror thing and the massive mods with Extremis are also in ruthless. So for the average player like me, leveling weapons this is going to be hell.
100% agreed on the coherence issues big yuck from my pov it doesn't work considering I was walking through the previous hardest this is now a nice challenge but it needs tweaks
Lethal is alright, they just need to buff the coherency range by 50% and extend the time it takes to lose the buff while out of range. Giving more buffs to coherency would be nice as well, maybe unique to each class
It is funny how Assault has gotten a chance to shine with this new difficulty, I do say it is one of the best classes and it shows how his two skills gun shots, make up for the rest of his lacking toolkit, just wish it wasnt pretty much his inly two worth skills
Love the whole game. Honestly the first one much more campaign oriented but I like what they have done with it. It’s really three games in one.
Guess I'll wait for next patch once they purge the player base for the sake of cost cutting. Thanks Saber. Balancing really on point...
Negative incentives are an option, but instead of the spray bottle, why not offer a treat? Stick together and you get an armor and damage boost multiplier thr longer you stay within a small radius of eachother.
Lethal should describe the situation you're in, not the mechanics that are working against you. The possible fixes you mentioned sound like they'll hit the spot. At the end of the day, the Emporer protects.
Very reasonable take on the whole situation.
They should jus give armor and/or damage boost when you stick together, instead of a penalty for not. Should be a benefit to team work, not a punishment for the lack of. Too many situations in this game where splitting up is nessecary...but I agree with everything you said, and alot of what you said about the beams thru walls and hard to read, I thought I was the only one that had issue with that 😂😂😂
Reducing armor gain by half might have been better for out of coherency penalty
Agree with some, but the armour regen away from the team is on a timer. I reckon it makes the exciting plays more exciting. You have to get in there, do the shit and get back to the bros. For stuff like the bosses I agree it feels weird.
I say this as an assault player. Maybe we should keep our gunstrike perk to make it special again. It became meh after the armour regen off parries thing. The gunstrike perk working out of coherency would bring it back to being a great perk.
I think that a good fix would be to make it so that you can’t gain contested health while you’re away from your team
Never ask us gamers to play the game as you intended: we’ll cry about it!
I had to put that perk on where non finisher gun strikes give armor
I finished Inferno and Decapitation on Lethal yesterday with only 1 teammate. I need to feel how hard the chaos missions first to make an accurate argument
Chaos missions are obnoxious on Lethal, if you play out of position for more than 5 seconds in a fight you get rinsed
@@H2ORaccoon i finished all mission on Ruthless before the version 3 update. So the lethal missions feels like the old ruthless but with more extremis and no wave bar thing to strategize if it gets into orange
Think the team up system should give you buff when you team up close together, not when I need get away from the team get punish
Coherency should be a bonus, not a punishment, maybe a slow Regen of armor, or just reduced cool downs, maybe DMG resistance, something like that, but def not a punishment
What about a benefit to players within 10 meters of each other like either 12.5% or 25% per nearby teammate increase to melee damage for a total of either 25% or 50% bonus melee damage or a reduction to ranged attacks
I'm in pretty much full agreement with you. Lethal is great, but the coherency mechanic needs an overhaul something fierce. The core design of the game very clearly was not made with the coherency mechanic in mind, and it makes Lethal feel really, really bad. Even something as simple as "you regen half armor instead of 0 when out of range" would go a long way.
Personally, if they feel like they need a mechanic like this, I'd prefer something like "everyone gets a -50% modifier on armor gen. When you damage an enemy, allies within ~10m of you or the damaged enemy have the modifier removed for 2s". Incentivize people to work together and focus on the same targets, without letting the large volumes of unavoidable chip damage become the single biggest threat in the entire game.
While the cohesion modifier is intresting its too dumb and annoying for certain class, especially melee classes and sniper. They should make lethal difficulty have a rotating modifier and rewards to keep things moving and fresh something like destiny does with Grandmaster strikes
Cannot wait to see the neo volkite pistol in action.... Wonder when they will be added it into the game....
Holy shit everything you said in this video 100% agree and I had the same freaking thought
I don't think the coherency makes sense from a game play or lore/theme perspective. In Darktide you play as a (relatively) normal person and your toughness is directly related to having allies near you that you can depend on. Space Marines know no fear. They can operate independently without losing their nerve. It doesn't make logical sense in the first place that killing things gives you "armor" but taking that away kills clutch potential they said they wanted to include. Even still, in Darktide you have other options to restore toughness even when out of the coherency.
Played some lethal last night, was not a big fan lmao. The armor reduction and coherency was bad. Idk if they should have changed it for the lower difficulties either, other than maybe ruthless, but its good. Hopefully they’ll listen to some feedback and tweak it a little
Expanding the range of coherency would fix a lot of it and last man standing gain less armor would fix this
Im a simple man, I hear AOE music in the background and I subscribe
I don't mind the having more lethal enemies spawn more often but the coherency is a no go for me.
You should make this video a post on the Space Marine 2 discord feedback section.
I can absolutely go inline with your summary. the coherency model is a nice idea but makes certain classes inviable for their core role! Also being animation locked without eyeframes (gunstrikes!!!) is just so much more annoying in this diff. A core survival mechanic like that should not be punished for using it!
Also the range dmg of random goons is unbearable for some classes (assault!).
But that aside I am still happy to have lethal as a challange.
last but not least: yes, REWORK THOSE FING ZOANTHROPE GARBAGE ATTACKS!!!!!
Yeah now when I'm playing assault and my sniper is busy spamming laser rifle rounds into the gaunt horde to up his kill count instead of target the firing squad of snipers and I have no choice but to kill them myself I don't get any armor because I had to go away from the team, and thus are punished for trying to help my team.
Remove the negative and make your armor regen .5 sec after per 1 sec in coherency? Meaning if you stay nerf each other you can start regen armor 33 % fastger then normal when not taking hits.
10:30 That's quite the understatement there :D