INDUSTRIAL METAL Essential bands debate with Liisa Ladouceur | LOCK HORNS (live stream archive)
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2024
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Join us for the live stream of LOCK HORNS, a weekly live streamed show debating the various genres of Banger’s Metal Family Tree.
Episode three: Industrial Metal features host Sam Dunn and guest, writer Liisa Ladouceur (@LiisaLadouceur).
We'll be reading your comments in real time throughout the show but you can start the debate now in the chat: what Industrial Metal bands need to stay on the chart, and which ones need to go? And who are the new (2005-present) essentials we should be adding. Ready? Fight!
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There's still a lot of potential for industrial metal. I feel like it can still be taken to a whole another level. There's not that many bands that play this style of metal nowadays.
@Witchcraft Destroys Minds & Reaps Souls I completely agree with you.
Author and Punisher kind of has in a way
Street Sects are great. Uniform have their fans but I don't care for them that much. The Body didn't start out industrial but they've shifted toward the genre over the years.
One of biggest industrial metal killers is the NDH (the style used by bands like Rammstein, Megaherz or Oomph), at least it killed industrial metal scene in my place (latinamerica) because the people in their ignorance started to think that industrial metal is just metal with synthetizers.
It's needs a rebirth/come back
It's bugging me that the NIN magnet is upside down. The first "N" is not supposed to be backwards. None of the other bands magnets are upside down. What gives?!? Lol... End rant.
Different band. Nails Inch Nine.
dude - previous episode nightwish is told to play power metal and the bitch self-claimed to be the first ever female trained metal singer....fokin joke at the least
Aaron,your concern is justified...ur's not a rant..But ,NIN isn't straight up Industrial metal band..they would fit on to another chart
@@Highcastle_of_Tone Nine Inch Nails
3TEETH is a new Industrial Metal band
Check out Filth Pig. New industrial metal band and they are brutal.
If 3Teeth would be included, Orgy should have stayed.
I'm a huge fan of Industrial Metal (and Industrial in general), so I'm going to write a long post that hopefully sheds some light on the music. Basically, it's hard to define Industrial Metal because it sort of splinters into two categories:
KMFDM-style Industrial Metal - Extremely rhythm-based, more groove-oriented, usually electronic-influenced, and features a "dancey" sort of vibe. This is the style of Industrial Metal that went mainstream, so when most people think of Industrial Metal, they are thinking of this.
Godflesh-style Industrial Metal - Heavily influenced by 80's-era Swans, this style is a lot more abrasive. While most Metal bands use guitars for riffing purposes, Godflesh used guitars to create soundscapes, giving the music a more textured, atmospheric sound. The music is not really "dancey", but has more of a crushing doom/sludge/drone sort of vibe (Author & Punisher, who were mentioned in the video, are a good example of this).
As a result of this splinter, you get bands that sound nothing alike being categorized in the same genre, which is where a lot of the confusion and uncertainty comes from. I'm a much bigger fan of the Godflesh-style and have a lot of favorites that weren't mentioned, but they are fairly obscure though and probably wouldn't be considered notable/influential enough to appear on the chart.
I do think Strapping Young Lad are unquestionably Industrial Metal. Most of Devin's influences are Industrial Rock bands (Killing Joke, Cop Shoot Cop, Grotus) and SYL sounds to me like a heavier extension of what they were doing. SYL even did a Cop Shoot Cop cover on their City album ("Room 429")
As far as new bands, it's hard to make recommendations because although there are a lot of Industrial-tinged bands out there these days, a lot of them are hybrids. Stuff like Blut Aus Nord (mostly the 777 series), The Axis Of Perdition, Corrections House, and P.H.O.B.O.S. These bands combine Industrial with other genres, so it's debatable if they are Industrial enough to go on the chart.
I've heard this being referred to as Monolithic Industrial Metal.
Well said,
Marilyn Manson should definitely be added, I don't think there's any arguments that Marilyn Manson is industrial metal, and they're one of the largest bands on the list.
KMFDM!!! Very underrated band. I think they are one of the best industrial bands and they are still rocking to this day.
Just off the top of my head, five bands I would mention... Soulstorm, P.H.O.B.O.S. Dogpile, Sonic violence, Dead World.
all those are great esp. Soulstorm, P.H.O.B.O.S., and Dead World. btw what about An Axis Of Peridition?
I'm proud of a spotify platilist I made featuring industrial metal Big 4: Ministry, Godflesh, Fear Factory and KMFDM; big names: Rammstein, White Zombie, Killing Joke; death and black metal with industrial elements; Zyklon, Anaal Nathrakh, The Berzerker and bands that carry the true industrial metal more traditional sound like Red Harvest, Mechina, 3teeth. Plus most of the bands mentioned here.
fungifago I think Filter should be in there as well.
@@Grimeyhoob maybe some tracks, but I consider Filter more industrial rock
How do I find it on Spotify?
I wish I was around for this discussion. 16Volt, Bile, Cubanate, Die Krupps, PIG, Vigilante is a great new band, The Berzerker should of been added. FLA only had a couple albums that were industrial metal. The main problem with this sub-genre is most of the bands are well hidden in the underground.
oh Berzerker should've definitely been added. industrial goregrind/deathgrind
Mad props for Author and Punisher shoutouts. This is a good example of a newer band that is doing something innovative enough to be worthy of note. Watch his videos to see why. He's a one man band.
Does it bother anybody else that the NIN logo is upside down?
Sigh. Yes.
+BANGER wow! Thanks for the response. All the same, keep up the great work and all of the killer content.🤘
StaticX is industrial metal band. So much skinny Puppy on the first album fist band I heard and called it Industrial Metal
NIN is not strictly industrial metal, but they have a lot of metal tunes. especially pre-2000.
@Darth Bane Broken is more Industrial Noise Rock
NIN is Industrial Rock
i love how lisa explained that industrial is its own world that evolved absent metal and then joined into metal. i think that explains more the evolution of goth, and synthpop. which synthpop is very similar to industral metal but without the hard riffs
I don't know... To me Static-X first two albums "Wisconsin Death Trip" and "Machine" have that industrial metal structure.
They were industrial metal, most definitely. Problem was, they got popular when the nu-metal scene hit its peak, so most people labelled them as a nu-metal band.
Bunbepe,I agree with you about Static X
Nine Inch Nails may not be metal per say, but they're incredibly important to the genre, I'd keep 'em on.
Metal Meltdown Reviews exactly, even if NIN not metal, not mentioning Trent Reznor Industrial Band, would be hugest mistake
@@kidtsunami3993 well plus. NiN may not be entirely metal. but they have metal tracks throughout the discography and I'd personally consider broken metal
NIN is a metal band,not Insrustial Metal
@@KatyaReminiec9399 NiN is very clearly industrial. Hell they lean more towards straight up industrial than industrial metal. What are you talking about?
NIN is not a band.
Nice Death Angel shirt Sam.
Would have love to have seen Misery Loves Co. They were AMAZING.
Reaktor 4, Sektor 304, Skin Chamber, Dodheimsgard, Samael, Scorn, Thorns - names that need to be on that list.
Aborym, Mysticum, Nailbomb, Scorn, G.O.D. and The Berzerker as well
What about front line assembly
They're just Industrial
Millennium is a questionable album. Good songs but also some not so great ones...
Only Millenium album is Metal (if you consider sampled guitars from Pantera Metal). They are EBM/Electro-Industrial in 90s. After 90s their style is more experimental and poppy (well, FLA was always a bit poppy).
Like Skinny Puppy, flirted with Metal elements at some point in their career, but still primarily electro-industrial.
more ebm
I want an episode of this with Liisa's goth tree! Maybe on her own channel though. I haven't read her book, but from what I could make out in this video, there's a lot of stuff there I feel doesn't belong. I loved this episode, this was the first episode I watched after a discussion with an acquaintance (and now it's 7 AM, whoops). I happened to mention to them that Liisa wrote a book with a goth family tree, and they linked me this series, and in the first one that caught my eye, there Liisa was, wow! I agree with her on everything here.
For the record, I was half-joking about Static X being disco. That was based on Static X's own admission that they're music is described as "Evil Disco".
KMFDM could be on here, though I know its a little more rock with dance stuff, I think the two FLA albums count as Industrial Metal too
Deadstar Assembly, Psyclon Nine, Crossbreed, Front Line Assembly, Dawn Of Ashes, Celldweller, Hanzel Und Gretyl, Columbine, Gravity Kills (Ind. Rock), Stabbing Westward (Ind. Rock).
As far as later industrial metal goes, I think Red Harvest is underrated. Sick Transit Gloria Mundi is a killer record.
Another thing I noticed happening is electronic Bass music plus industrial plus rock-metal, is getting mixed. Like Celldweller/Circle of Dust, Blue Stahlli, Zardonic, voicians, Rabbit Junk, and some Pendulum songs like “Comprachicos”.
This genre has so much potential but the bands often fall flat, either being too metal or too electronic. Striking a balance is rare... I think the best band for the past decade has been Turmion Kätilöt from Finland!
Mortal? Chatterbox? Klank? Drown? Brainchild? Circle of Dust? Lots of the lost gems, and there's many more.
Awesome. Interesting show as always. Hail Bangers TV.
wow, dissing Die Krupps, influenced the whole entire, German Industrial scene
Mechina, Sybreed, Pain, Celldweller, Breach The Void, Mick Gordon, Deathstars and others were excluded... Also there are many alt metal/industrial hybrid bands that could potentially fit here, everything from Static-X, Linkin Park, Marilyn Manson, Adema etc.
Do bands like Genghis Tron, The Berzerker and Plague Bringer count, that have a grindcore influence?
and what about circle of dust, argyle park, Ap2 , Berzerker, old, red harvest
Bands such as Skin Chamber, Circle Of Dust, Meathook Seed, Bile, Skrew, etc... in my view, wouldn't exactly go on the "official tree". But I would put them on a list for those who wish to go even deeper into Industrial Metal. As for Swans, they deserve a nod, just like Killing Joke, for being influential on some Industrial hybrids, including this one. Nailbomb is not industrial enough to belong. It kinda sounds like "Arise" with some industrial elements.
I feel like you could make the argument, and it's a stretch or it depends on how you wanna cut it, that Full of Hell might qualify by blending Power-Electronics and Grind/Hardcore.
What about Pain? I always thought that they were an industrial band. Or are they only relevant to northern Europe?
Celldweller, Circle of Dust, Mortiis, Blue Stahli, 3Teeth, Youthcode, Hypomaniacs, Ghostmane, Pitchshifter, Megaherz…
Wow. No one in the chat or anything caught that you missed the whole industry-metal thing in Finland. Bands like ...and Oceans, Turmion Kätilöt, Scorngrain, Trollheims Grott
Sister machine gun.
Was such an underrated band and fantastic
Metropolis is one of my favorite albums in industrial metal of all time
Also I believe Fear Factory, hands down, are the purest form of Industrial Metal
But they also differ from the other bands on the chart as they have that death metal part in their music.
If you go to bandcamp page there is alot of newer industrial metal bands but probably just not mainstream so that why people don't know much of any newer ones.
+Chris Kimmel youtube also bro, there is a long list
True. That's how I found out about 3Teeth last year. These guys are getting bigger and I hope they do. Industrial Metal needs new blood in the mainstream.
Cubanate and Bile and Treponem Pal and Hanzel und Gretyl and Rouska thank you
Fucking shit. It's been some years since I ever saw a comment from a BILE fan. (that wasn't on their videos)
Yeah, BILE most certainly belongs on the list. They influenced the American side of the scene quite a bit in the '90s, and the industrial elements in their sound are undeniable.
Thank you for recognizing Hanzel Und Gretyl. I got to see them open for The Genitorturers,and they killed it.
If you're talking about ESSENTIAL industrial metal bands, it's really only 5: Ministry, Godflesh, KMFDM, Fear Factory, Rammstein. Those 5 are the most influential and probably the most popular. White Zombie is groove metal.
I don't think you can discount Prong by saying they are groove metal if you have White Zombie on the list, stylistically they are very similar. If anything Zombie is the more groove oriented band.
I've always thought mostly Rude Awakening was more industrial metal and maybe a little bit of Cleansing to. I thought the rest was more thrash though.
Everybody check out the band called “KLANK” the album “Still Suffering” year 1995 it’s badass ! Should be on this list for sure !!
13:15 Goshdarnit, Liisa, there *is* such a thing as industrial thrash! Malhavoc, Nailbomb and Uniform are all prime examples! >:|
I will say, though, that industrial thrash as a distinct subgenre, especially now, is much less of a thing than industrial black metal-what with bands like Blut Aus Nord, Aborym, Dødheimsgard and An Axis of Perdition all proudly carrying that torch; and what's more, most of the early industrial metal bands with a distinct thrash element wound up leaning into either more mechanistic or groovy textures over time. Strapping Young Lad and Fear Factory come to mind as particularly representative of that groove/post-thrash element in a lot of thrash-based industrial metal. On the other hand, you have the post-Godflesh doom/sludge side of industrial metal, which I think is less discussed because it's maybe a bit less accessible. Author & Punisher and The Body's recent stuff is a good example, not to mention Primitive Man, Lord Mantis and Indian on the less mechanical, more power electronics-y end of things.
Where is SAMAEL? It's an important band both in black metal history and the later industrial involvement. Include Samael, guys.
Samael is great and one of my favorite bands but their only industrial effort was Eternal and Era One. Their other later works did have slight industrial influences but it is so minimal it doesn't justify it being industrial metal. Sort of like Shade Empire or Anaal Nathrakh which do use very slight industrial influences for atmosphere in their work but are not industrial metal. Like the saying goes, just because you use some electronic effects in your metal music doesn't automatically make you industrial metal. There are way more bands that do industrial black metal much better than Samael. Check out bands like Thorns, NKVD, Psyclon Nine, Dawn of Ashes' later works, Alien Deviant Circus, Neo Inferno 262, The Axis of Perdition or even MZ 412.
I understand that the industrial metal tree was hard to talk about, but Static-X does count as industrial. They fit the category perfectly. Even in the later days of Static-X before they split the industrial elements were there.
7 years later I will suggest the Swedish/Dutch band "Peace Love & Pitbulls". Released their debute album in 1992.
very nice to see Liisa debating, hope to see her more again
I thought she was a good addition as well. I disagree with her on NIN though. I thought their first 3 albums were defiantly metal - Pretty Hate Machine (Alternative Metal), Broken (Industrial Metal), Downward Spiral (Industrial Metal).
They may have turned into an Industrial Rock band, but their origins or roots were metal.
I love this about metal fans, if they arent playing in metal band or listening to their favourite metal band, they are debating bands and genre with passion. Love it!
+JustDSBM You can't say that Ministry and Godflesh aren't Industrial Metal.
I'm happy Author & Punisher made it up there.
I would like to also add some bands not to forget to mention on the industrial metal list: Diabolus Rising / Dawn Of Ashes / Von Mollestein / Swamp Terrorist / Gost.
Any new Industrial bands recommendations tired of listening to the same old bands.
There is actually a new industrial scene from Europe and especially from France... Bands like Herrschaft and Shaârghot are not really famous yet, but they're craving for it and really bring fresh air in this scene.
Front Line Assembly recorded essential industrial metal album "Millenium". Also Laibach's "Jesus Christ Superstar" wasn't mentioned. And no Treponem Pal? Strange. And of course you forgot great industrial black metal bands such as Samael, Blut Aus Nord, Mysticum and Kovenant.
Wow I didn't know industrial black metal was a thing.
I've only heard slight hints of nu-metal in Static-X's sound, mainly in the records that were written with Tripp Eisen during his tenure in the band. The albums with Koichi Fukuda all have a more aggressive and heavier sound, with a huge emphasis on industrial and groove.
Honestly, I think all the Static X songs sound so similar that I can't hear a difference. Luckily I somewhat enjoy that sound so I have the majority of their tracks.
To me, the best 90's metal was in Europe, with Gothic metal, black metal, doom/death, funeral doom, and extreme progressive metal.
okay so I missed the stream, and I know that the set a standard to have a guitar to count as industrial metal, but Author & Punisher is absolutely savage, and my favorite industrial experience
the industrial nu-Metal bands such as static x need there own branch as nu metal kinda had its own sub genres such as the industrial leg of it such as static x, dope, orgy etc. the regular nu metal leg such as korn, coal chamber and slipknot and the rap metal leg (the less spoken about that one the better)
Sam, i am Manuel, from Perú ...i was Nin, Rammstein and Orgy not industrial metal...but Skrew, Circle of Dust, Front Line Assembly, Kmfdm...yes!!!...it's industrial metal 😎😊👍👍👍👍
I loved your first film!! Dad bought me it and watched it several times!!
I can't wait to see which category Gojira is going to be put in.
+Cory D I predict prog metal
The Amenta ,Red Harvest ...newer bands that should go on the list
Where is Sybreed?
There are a lot of bands can be tagged more than one label. Fox example, in my opinion, Fear Factory's music has elements of industrial metal, death metal and groove metal.
not a metal band, but I think Laibach deserved a mention!
Industrial metal and death metal are my favorite metal genres
Something tells me you like Soul of a New Machine
Author and Punisher is missing from the list, come on guys get with the times
I think one of the most important bands in industrial metal history was Die krupps. Many bands got influence from this band, also Rammstein, who copy a Tier´s riff from The Dawning Of Doom (Die Krupps).
they suck so
What about PAIN, Crematory, The Kovenant? You mentioned Oomph, Deathstars...yet there are so many bands wich should be on this list and YES, they arent't from America for the most part.
Nothing quite tops the piques of Ministry. They practically crafted the fusion of heavy metal and industrial. Land/Psalm 69/Mind are the top 3 no doubt.
Only just started watching but...they realise the NIN logo is upside down eventually, right?
Honorable Mentions: Grotus, Psyclone 9, Earth Born -Malformed, Red Harvest
Any of the last three Shining (NO) albums are truly innovative industrial metal albums with a lot of jazz influences, would definetely argue that if any new band should be added to this list it's them!
think Turmion Kätilöt should have a place on this list
Techno metal is not industrial metal
Surprised not to see any mention of Industrial Black Metal with stuff like Blut Aus Nord, P.H.O.B.O.S. (somewhat), and The Axis of Perdition.
Thorns!
Aborym!!!
Love this tree! Some of my favorite bands!!
Love the series, cannot wait for the thrash ep :)
Die Krupps is a major influence and definitively industrial metal! Thre should be a deeper view on industrial metal, it defintively deserve it
you guys forgot "PAIN" peter tagtren's industrial metal band.
Dear Banger,
When you revisit this please consider Mortiis, one my favorite industrial metal bands. In my opinion a band aligned with the definition of Industrial Metal. A great band from Norway that was inspired by the darkness of black metal but embrace the industrial part. The band has been around since 1993.
One other band which should be strongly considered is "Kovenant" with a "K." Another Norwegian band influenced by black metal with industrial elements. This band's balance between Metal and Industrial teeters to the Metal side. Strong sci-fi influence in look and lyrics. There are some cold sounding female and male clean parts wich add to the space vibe.
I know I am commenting on videos really late, for that my apologies. I recently discovered the channel. I loved Headbanger's journey and I am so glad the legacy is moving forward. Thank You to Sam and the whole Banger team, \m/ Cheers \m/!!
Hanzel und Gertyl
Industrial Nu metal = Static X because of rapping
Industrial rock = NIN cause there not heavy enough
Industrial thrash = Ministry,Nailbomb cause the riffs are pretty thrash and both have solos but still have samples and beats
I have never heard rapping in any static x songs.
Numetalfan 22 actually I commented this when I didn’t know shit about static
@@dannythemetalcrusty666 static x are really cool. The first 2 records especially.
Any chance of adding a Post-Metal genre? Or more episodes after Mathcore? If not, is there anyway to hear about some other choices in the tree such as AC/DC and Motorhead in NWOBM vs. Early Metal UK like Priest?
I recommend give it a try to Revolter, Puncture, Flash Terrorist and Death Ride 69, that in case of "extinted bands", the industrial metal band that are still going and deserve more recognition there are Hanzel Und Gretyl, dont be fooled by the name, they are from New York, not Germany, Hanzel Und Gretyl have a very versatile discography, is full of songs that going from make you dance to make your head explode, at the beginning of they career they got a lot of success, the problem is that after publishing the second album they got with law problems related to the label they signed so they entered in a kind of long forced hiatus that forced them to cancel they third album (that is still unavaiable) at the end of the 90's, when they came back most of the followers already forgotten them. Other band that is still going is Skrew, their first albums are really a "you have to listen" in industrial metal, they more recent album is not industrial but however is a good album, now this one is going to be kind of controversy because is more clasiffied as experimental but some of industrial metal fans like to include them, and i talking about Swans, more exactly their first two albums, Filth and Cop, they are nice, heavy and designed to play them at high volume, they later leave the industrial like music in future albums but they still make great music.
The Young Gods and Swamp Terrorists. They're both Swiss bands and are so metal, they don't even have guitar players.
I Love the Young Gods
Nailbomb was more industrial than White Zombie. Zombie was mainly a guitar driven band who did one album with industrial elements aside from the remixes they put out but in terms of their records they were not even close to industrial. Lasexorcisto was a straight up heavy guitar, bass, and drums record with movie samples thrown in. Make them Die Slowly was also guitar, bass, and drums. Soul Crusher and Psycho head Blowout were noise rock albums. Astro creep was the only album with industrial elements present but was still mainly guitar, bass, and drums with samples. You can label Astro creep industrial if you want but Lasexorcisto is groove metal and the previous records were noise rock. One album out of 4 or 5 does not make them industrial. Nailbomb only did one record but it had plenty of industrial elements. Drum machines were used on some tracks for god sake. The only genre they could qualify as is industrial metal.
Sam, I unfortunately have a gut feeling you'll have a lower turnout for next week's Livestream due to that day being Thanksgiving in the US. I know I'm fucked as far as being able to make the Livestream is concerned because I'm having Thanksgiving dinner at that exact time with my family.
+Dion R Hi Dion. Yes, we are aware (even up here in Canada) that it's a huge holiday in America next Thursday and people are with family (especially on the West Coast) during that time. We hope you'll check out the archive later!
+BANGER Where is AC/DC?! I'm having a POWERAGE here!!!
+Herbert From Itally ac /dc isn't industrial metal buddy.
Ac/dc is a a hard rock band...
Andrasté Reminiec well there not hard rock either to b technical there a rock n roll band
I can't believe Frontline Assembly wasn't mentioned.
Pitch - shifter - Industrial, was the bridge that connected the two.
It's been almost 5 years now... time to revisit? Ministry is still king, but there is a new crop of impossible to categorize otherwise bands to consider.
It'd would be cool if it was available as a podcast! Show is still awesome!
A few interesting newer bands in the genre who have taken the sound in some different directions: Autokrator, Tyrant of Death, and Umbah.
In my opinion, Rammstein is one of the biggest Industrial metal bands. They are the biggest for Europe. Kind of like how you have the big bands coming out of US and EU
I feel that they placed it higher in shock rock, also I feel that the band doesn't use 'traditional' industrial 'instruments', like random noises hitting pipes or lamps or something. They mainly use some synths to make their sound. I'd have to say NDH in general is like a sibling/cousin to industrial metal.
Not an expert on the genre, but always enjoyed it!
While prob not so much the metal side....no honorable mention of Einstürzende Neubauten, is surprising!
You guys completely ignored Pain, which i think is very representative for this genre.
I've watched this episode 6 times now
Industrial metal is the fusion of heavy metal music and industrial music, typically employing repeating metal guitar riffs, sampling, synthesizer or sequencer lines, and distorted vocals
BILE, Combichrist, My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult, Electric Hellfire Club, Velvet Acid Christ (?), Mortiis, Godhead (Ind. Rock), Kidney Thieves (Ind. Rock), Pigface, Icon Of Coil, Eisbrecher, Helltrash, Zeromancer (Ind. Rock), ORGY (Ind. Rock), American Head Charge, Static-X (Ind. Rock), DOPE (Ind. Rock), The Birthday Massacre (Ind. Rock), Mindless Self Indulgence (Ind. Rock), Powerman 5000 (Ind. Rock), NIN (Ind. Rock)...etc!