How To Destroy A Story In One Episode
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- How to destroy a story in one episode. Naruto Shippuden, and Naruto as a whole is a great manga and anime. However, in the Naruto War Arc, the worst scene in the history of manga happened when Zetsu stabbed Madara Uchiha in the back, bringing Kaguya Otsutsuki into the story, something that ruined Naruto for many different reasons. Today we will explore why the Zetsu Retcon destroyes the Naruto story.
When Zetsu betrayed Madara, this Akatsuki character that was never prominent in the story became essentially the main character in the Naruto series. Let's take a look at what happened after that.
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Who's the WORST Naruto character?
Burrito
Kaguya Lol
Zetsu by a mile
in terms of hating the character, danzo but it's not like he hurt the story. its easily zetsu, kaguya at least had cooler visuals and some level of being a character. zetsu was just kinda there the whole story for nothing until the end
kaguya
Kishimito revealing Zetsu was the orchestrator of all of Naruto and thereby ruining the story was all a part of Aizen’s plan.
Don't let this fact distract you from the fact that grey fullbuster tried to seal Luffy in a genjutsu
And then it turns out they were all tricked cause some guy asked Kaguya in the past "Would you kindly betray everyone".
Lol aizens plan
@@primary2630😂
Bleach is definitely better than Naruto, I'm ready for people to wake up to this fact already.
imo its hilarious that zetsu backstabbed madara, the madara who with no eyes 1 shot SM naruto and dodged all EMS sasuke attacks. now he has 3 of the most powerful eyes in the show, the 10 tails, and is fully adapted to his body, yet he gets backstabbed by a thing that got blitzed by CHOJURO. gotta love late naruto - boruto
he was giving a speeh to team 7 and believed there were no enemies behind him. also zetsu was his most trusted comrade so it rlly isnt that surprising
@@D_Owo sage mode,kurama emotion sensing,spsm,sharingan precog🗿🗿
@@amogus1415 he didn’t sneak behind naruto tho did he💀💀💀 why would naruto had be any obligation to tell madara that zetsu was behind him and abt to kill him, madara most likely wouldn’t believe that would he sasuke and kakashi also had no obligation to tell madara either and I’m fairly certain they weren’t expecting madara’s most trusted ally to suddenly stab him in the back
@@D_Owo madara has sage mode,he has kurama(you dont need kuramas cooperation to have emotion sensing kcm1 naruto did it),he has six paths powers,and he has the ems and the rinnesharingan which grants precog.
@@amogus1415 madara wasn’t in kcm mode tho and madara was facing in the opposite direction of zetsu
I have no issues with Kaguya as a piece of lore in Naruto world, my problem is her being a villain on the main story.
She might have worked in that regard if her story was better written and written as only Hagaromo's mother, nothing to do in the present day
I would only push her for the boruto story, there were so many interesting ways to make Madara work as a final villain, with a few ways to defeat him... the excuse that Kishimoto gave "Madara is too powerful I don't know how to defeat him, so let me bring an enemy more powerful to do so"
fr
I probably would have preferred Kaguya to just be a side character in sage of six paths backstory but not a main villain.
@@tribopower he was rushed to do it tho. i am sure that if he wasnt trushed it woulda been more satisfying
The problem was that Kishimoto didn't plan ahead with regards to Kaguya. If we had come across a temple or two that enshrined her as a moon goddess it would have made for a much more interesting story.
Kishimoto was never much of a planner. When he started writing the manga his grant plan for the series was Naruto fighting Sasuke at some point and to be fair their 2 main fights were pretty good.
But i really like your addition. It would've been great. Place Zetsu next to the shrine for one panel and we had the connection, but it's obvious that Kaguya wasn't planned from the start and probably not even as the final boss at the start of the war if one has in mind that the whole war spanned 150+ chapters.
I think he just betrayed his story. The addition of Kaguya and the Outsutsuki allows for the story to have an open ending and for Boruto to be its continuation.
@@didack1419i always believed it was more of Shonen Jump and his editors betraying it, I made the assumption that they wanted an extension to the story because it was a big money maker and forced him into extending and Kaguya was his choice of doing so, editors are known to push for changes with money on their minds, big example is when Oda's editors tried to stop him from killing off Ace in One Piece because of his popularity and their plans to use him for marketing
@@everburnerfish But did they have that much leverage over Kishimoto to force him to do that?, maybe they do.
I was already assuming that the idea was not originally his, only that he had the final decision.
I am sure kishimoto didn't wanted to even make kaguya's character but he has written himself into a corner and was pushed by Jump to make a new alien villain so that the upcoming series can have villains from her family.
Zabuza died for this...
According to black zetsus plan
@@DANIELReedskeep That might ironically make sense. Zabuza went rogue because he wanted to overthrow the Fourth Mizukage's tyrannical reign. And we know that the Mizukage was only like that because Obito was manipulating him with his Sharingan. And since Zetsu acted as Obito's guide, he could have told Obito that it would be beneficial to mess with the Mizukage to weaken the village or goad Obito into taking revenge against the village for causing Rin's death.
Good.
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast.
@@lycan2494 ^me when i only listen halfassed through a video
I actually loved Zetsu’s design initially, and was really bummed when it became clear he would not have any significant feats. Oh, how I wish I was still living in that world..
Exactly, the way kishimoto set him up you would think he would have more powerful than he was.
You could with the infinite tsukuyomi
@@justinarzola4584 wdym?
@@D_Owo Zetsu never showed any feats of strength during the series even though kishimoto made it seem like he was holding back something, All he did was possess Obito for a while to get chakra and stab Madara even though Madara could've stopped him easily.
@@andylua4118 88,iiiiu I iii uiii
Yeah, Tobi's reveal as Obito was decently setup. His reveal as the secret leader of the Akatsuki even made sense because Tobi came off as being a bit "too goofy" to the point where he *had* to be someone who was very powerful to even be allowed around this den of murderous lunatics. Also, moments where cracks in the fool facade did appear here and there.
His claim to be Madara was dubious of course, even if we didn't already figure he was probably Obito.
Honestly claiming to be madera was a good bit. Makes sense he'd take on the name of such a strong ninja and the fear that came with it, as a sort of mask below the fool facade
Obito claiming to be madara added an air of mystique. It was like in mgs 2 people thought the terrorist leader was solid snake. But us the player knew it couldn't be solid snake
Tobi/Obito was a great and well formulated character who unfortunately had to get their arc resolved in the stinky part of naruto.
@@lemonwormsay what you want, his character wasn’t that well planned out. If he was, Obito and Zetsu wouldn’t have had that conversation where Sasori died.
Yup. Imo Madara would have never come back at all. Neither would Hashirama have been brought back again. Madara would have been kept as this mythical figure everyone was shitting their pants over. Bringing him back was nothing but fan service. Obito being the final villain would have been fine. Wouldnhave even made more sense if we went from Obito to Kaguya. Bringing back Kaguya made Bringing Madara back at all pointless as he achieved absolutely nothing. I think people would have accepted Kaguya more if we never got Madara.
I don’t think that this is what ruined Naruto. The war arc being a bloated mess of retcons, asspulls, clumsily tied together plot threads, and haphazardly shoved in lore ruined the series well before it got Zetsu.
Pretty much just commented this. I’m glad you harped on this one the ninja war was a bad idea through and through. Kind of like a give em everything at once button.
After Pain Arc a time skip to that 5-kage summit where the Akatsuki have gon into hiding honed their skills and Sasuke is their new operating leader much older seasoned. Boom he does attack with EM Sharingan so there’s more badass stuff but nicely paced…and then maybe go from there up until we find a better way to incorporate new villains instead we got frickin oRoChImArU KaBuTo bLaCk ZeTsU
Nothing ruined Naruto because it was/is still a great story.
@@demetrioshilton5328 The war arc wasnt a bad idea at all, but Shonen Jump rushing Kishimoto to finish the war arc in a hurry, THAT is what ruined the war arc but not the series as a whole.
@@1BuFo the war arc is a joke.
@@1BuFo unable to find flaws in the things you love means you don’t truly love it at all. War arc was trash but the series is still a staple in anime
There was a retcon with Akatsuki, that being the rings, they made a big importance to the rings, Tobi going for Sasori's ring, along with I believe them mentioning getting Orochimaru's ring.
Facts the rings meant absolutely nothing the cramming must’ve been I save the akatsuki got screwed over
Thats not a retcon
@@demetrioshilton5328 They needed all the rings OR someone with the Rinnegan to use the Ten Tails empty husk (but they had Nagato so yeah rings were useless)
@@demetrioshilton5328 they needed the rings. For fashion reasons. You got to love your painted nails right
@@BenganGamer yes it lol do you know what a retcon is
One of my biggest issues with Naruto is how much gets retconned.
So many plotpoints that were adding in later on through flashbacks often were just enormous asspulls.
Like Naruto and Sasuke's friendship didn't feel earned, so Kishimoto had to go back and add flashbacks where Naruto and Sasuke met each other at an even younger age. While in the original story they clearly didn't know each other and met at Ninja academy.
Things like that always just made me dislike the show more and more.
how do you know that they clearly didn't know each other🤔👀
@@ignipotent7276 That was clearly shown at the start of the series. They didn't know each other.
Should I even say, at this point, "The feudal lords"? As somone who finished the anime (no fillers), I still don't understand the Naruto world. We went from feudal lords using ninjas in military scale, or smaller scale with missions, to just... A few villages dotted around the very small world fighting for... swathes of infinite forest, desert and grassland? I wonder why none of these villains had plans like "I'm going to cut off Konoha from food/water". Concepts like land and food are irrelevant in geopolitics - only secret jutsus and powerful ninja are factors.
@@Klongu_Da_Bongu The entire Naruto story wasn't thought out well. Naruto fans would come for my head for saying this. But Naruto was really a combination of things Kishimoto found cool. He clearly loved Yu Yu Hakusho and Hunter X Hunter dearly and was a huge Togashi fan.
Just look at the way the Chuunin Exams were set-up. It was literally a Hunter Exam rip-off, which Togashi did first in the HxH manga and Togashi did even more first in YYH during the Genkai Exams.
Just look at the elements in the Chuunin Exams. Its fully based on the Hunter Exams. The portion in the forest for example in Naruto goes almost like the one in HxH. Even the antagonist plays a similar role. Hisoka being a weird creep, hunting the young Hunters vs Orochimaru doing the exact same thing vs the young Ninja's. Both taking place in a dangerous forest. Orochimaru leaves his mark on Sasuke for a future encounter. Hisoka punches Gon and ''leaves his mark'' for a future encounter.
In Naruto there's a written portion. In HxH Gon stating he'd be bad at a written portion and there isn't any written exam. Which Kishimoto did the opposite from. Same with the tournament at the end. Togashi did something that subverted expectations. Kishimoto did a standard tournament. But even there there's a lot of similarities.
For example Guy holding Rock Lee back from doing his ''forbidden technique.'' Bushy brow Rock Lee, who's character is based on hard work. Its completely based off of Wing and Zushi. Wing stopped Zushi in a similar way from using a ''forbidden technique'' and Zushi has literally the same eyebrows and also based on hard work. The HxH manga was already past Heavens Arena so Kishimoto used that as inspiration.
Then there's the core strength of HxH: Gon and Killua's friendship. I'm completely convinced that Kishimoto loved the direction HxH was taking with those 2 so he heavy handedly wanted to do the same between Sasuke and Naruto while their friendship was never earned and that brings me back to my original point. He then had to fix things through retcons and flashbacks. Even look how Sasuke has electrical based powers, exactly like Killua. Kakashi's design was also based on Killua.
And the funny thing is. When you look back at Kishimoto's pilot manga chapter for Naruto, before HxH came out. It lacked all the HxH elements he later on added after HxH came out. The Naruto pilot manga had Naruto in a more modern world.
Then he added the things he found cool: Ninja's, Togashi, Dragon Ball.
@bluellua6025 thank you. I can tell he copied a lot, because shippuden fells incompetent in writing especially after the pain arc with a LOT of retcons just with more emotional writing, which sells to casual audiences.
From Zetsu being a Grass Ninja to being created to Madara to suddenly, he invaded Madara's body and just hung out unnoticed for 50+ years doing absolutely nothing until Madara "created" him.
I’m so happy I’m not the only one who remembers Zetsu being a Grass Village ninja.
@@FlapNasty3 I don't remember this, which episode was this stated?
@@FlapNasty3Yep. I remember this when I was in elementary school.
No black zetsu did a lot of things he basically raised asura and Indra he basically created everything we know in the Naruto universe making a butterfly effect all leading to the point when he resurrected kaguya but zetsu sucks so bad as a character but technically he didn’t do nothing he kinda created the whole Naruto world but I personally think that kaguya and zetsu shouldn’t have existed instead night guy kills madara and guy it’s the perfect ending because guy is perfect example of what Naruto stands for so that’s how the war should have ended
@@weebarmyunite8968 I agree with all that but the "Doing nothing" claim was for the 50+ years (or however long. Last time I tried to figure out the timeline, my nose started bleeding) he was inside Madara in between Madara dying and Madara "creating" him just before he re-died.
Black Zetsu was trying to pull a Aizen Plot, without being Aizen.
More like aizen was trying to pull a black zetsu plot.
@@jellythewomanconsumer1590😂😂 Nice one
@@jellythewomanconsumer1590 aizen was written before zetsu young one 😂
@@jellythewomanconsumer1590 but bleach would be considered a successful anime where as naruto is big in Japan and that’s it thanks to boruto 😂
@@f1fanatic241when did the chapter that showed zetsu betraying madara release?
ive been saying this for years. The way they handled Madara totally killed the story for me. For YEARS Madara was built up just to be taken down by zetsu and some mother we just found out about. Feels like They did this little plot twist just to make way for the Boruto series.
That’s why they did it
@@fearz792 cope
That's exactly what it was. They already knew that Boruto was gonna be a thing before the Naruto manga ended, that's why they introduced aliens at the last minute. Greed, that's what it all came down to.
The black zetsu take down was planned from as far back as the hashirama/madara flashback. Black zetsu was watching the fight, you can even see hashirama glance at him near the end. Then it goes back to it when the reveal happens from his perspective.
For reference, this was chapter 626.
Saying it was Zetsu all along also absolves every single villain of their actions
@@girlbossperiod Hhhh... Let me quote a comment from descendant of artorias:
"A cycle of manipulation is infinitely less interesting and deep than Pain's idea of the cycle of pain. The cycle of pain is a commentary on human nature, about how violence leads to more violence and how silly notions like tribalism lead to humanity being incapable of understanding one another and living in peace. This amazing theme gets ruined the second you realize that in the Naruto universe there literally would've no conflict if not for one objectively evil alien.
Imagine how lame it would've been if Pain asked Naruto how he would solve the cycle of hatred and his response was "believe it or not literally all we have to do to create world peace is kill that black Zetsu guy lmao." What does that say about human nature? That all of our problems would be solved if we just get rid of the evil aliens?"
@@totmgsrockxd9900 you do know even without Zetsu Madara is literally responsible for almost everything
@Conquest Re read what I said, if Zetsu didn’t betray Madara then Madara would be the guy who caused everything
Its stillw eird to me how OROCHIMARU Gets off scot free despite murdering LITERAL CHILDREN and wearign the corpses of his murder victims as meat suits.
Like....he still did those things. ANd hes not sorry he did those things either.
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOUJUST LETTIG HIM BUM AROUND.
WHY.
@@sarafontanini7051 Kabuto who used countless of innocent people as sacrifices for the reanimation jutsu is now not responsible for his actions what a f**king joke that now is and to top off he suddenly becomes good after Naruto and Sasuke had died
Smh it's one the biggest bullsh*t in the entire war arc , Kabuto should've f**king died instead of suddenly turning good.
My biggest thing about kaguya is that they did the same twist twice. Madara betraying Obito was crazy then he got played up to be crazy strong. Then when the big fight for him and Naruto come they just say nah let's do the EXACT thing we did with Obito and madara
well, Obito played Nagato, Madara played Obito, and Zetsu played Madara...
I was considering that Itachi being good was a retcon as well... I rewatched the whole series, and read some of the manga to see if the perspective was different. I found that Itachi's scenes in the original series were far more sinister, and they were literally remade to make him seem less of a dick when he says certain things.
THIS!!! Everyone always makes him out to be an angel, but his whole character was retconned because people thought he was cool.
In my personal opinion the whole „he killed THE ENTIRE FUCKING CLAN EVEN THE KIDS to prevent a Coup“ yadda yadda made no sense at all. Why not just take out the ones who wanted to rebel? There were obviously other Uchiha like Shisui who wanted to be a bigger part of the village.
@@violentscorl697 1. He was 13 at the time and was given very little choice. Imagine the entire weight of a decision being on the shoulders of someone his age
2. The women and kids were actually killed by Obito, not Itachi. Itachi only killed the Uchiha Shinobi who could fight
@@mawandembatha6622 first of: women were also kunoichi so why the differentiation? Also: Itachi mirdered kunoichi and children too, I mean you literally see it in the scenes of the massacre. He also killed Izumi.
He was not a saint and his character was retconned to be some kind of twisted „good guy“
@@violentscorl697 no he didn't. Although the entire think of killing the clan to save the village is stupid. Itachi doesn't killed the children and women. Atleast According to the anime I don't know about the manga but pretty sure it is same. I'd only itachi could kill the entire clan. Then tbh Uchiha clan is really weak. Like even if there was a coup won't the other shinobi along with itachi would able to stop them. Anyway there would be many other Uchiha who would have opposed the coup.
@@mawandembatha6622 no bro, obito helped itachi on purpose to dispose of the uchiha knowing that they would be problematic, and obito handled the soldiers because itachi would get folded by them
I think that Madara as a villain was already somewhat ruined by how stupid his resurrection plan was, and how he ended up being resurrected in large part by the stupidity of an Orochimaru knock-off, rather than a foolproof plan, so I'm not sure that the introduction of Kaguya made it all that much worse, just more convoluted and random. Having multiple layers of villains all trying to outplay one another and Black Zetsu be the best of them all did seem pretty stupid though, I will admit. I would say however that Naruto and Sasuke being of a particular special lineage was worse from a story telling perspective because it made all of their previous hard work and sacrifice seem much more hollow and pointless, being that the story was flat-out making them the chosen ones with a destiny that was pre-determined. I think that having Obito be the final villain would have been fine as well.
probably because obito isnt that strong to begin with. So he need a stronger villain that CAN actually make the tsuki plan happen. Unless obito and kabuto managed to kill like half the strong ninja, those 2 just werent enough of a force, especially added with sasuke and the 5 kage.
@@reisen9584 Kishimoto could have just made the story more about intelligent planning than power. But there's so much ass-pull powerups previous to Kaguya showing up, there's really no reason why he couldn't just give Obito a powerup. I mean, being that Black Zetsu was strong enough to punch a hole through 6 Paths Madara's chest, maybe he could have just merged with Obito, and turn him into super Obito... Who cares really, it's all a bunch of stupid nonsense, but Kishimoto could have at least simplified the nonsense a little bit.
Naruto and sasuke were not destined to be strong. They were destined to fight and kill each other. But naruto broke the cycle and defeated destiny by refusing to kill sasuke. Naruto proved that neji was wrong about being unable to change your fate. I don’t understand why so many people misinterpret the the themes of naruto.
Naruto and sasuke were not destined to be strong. They were destined to fight and kill each other. But naruto broke the cycle and defeated destiny by refusing to kill sasuke. Naruto proved that neji was wrong about being unable to change your fate. I don’t understand why so many people misinterpret the the themes of naruto.
@@Science-is-everything- You're talking about a theme that was injected into the series later on, which is partly what I'm criticizing, when we find out explicitly that Naruto and Sasuke have an intertwined lineage. In the beginning the the series that theme was just one friend trying to save another friend. Much more simple and relatable. I'm however talking about a different theme that was present from the very beginning of the series. That theme being that through hard work and sacrifice, both characters were enabled to take on whatever opposition faced them, even if at times it was one another. As the series goes on and on however, that theme becomes eroded until finally Kishimoto just doesn't give a shit any more and decides to give them both massive power boosts via Hagoromo in the afterlife. THAT'S the theme I'm talking about, and that's what Kishimoto destroyed. So if you're going to criticize someone, know what you're talking about first.
There’s a LOT of stuff Kishimoto clearly just made up as he went along . But Itachi being a good guy had some pretty clear foreshadowing even back in part one.
which was handled poorly like it feels likd the mutafuka did more bad than good he should've stayed a bad guy in all honesty
Nah that was definitely changed as Itachis popularity blew up. There was no forshadowing before hand telling otherwise and he was always meant to be a bad guy
What foreshadowing? Everything he did in Part I was just villainous, he nearly off’d Sasuke with his little genjutsu mind rapery in the hotel, nothing he did Part I alluded to him being not so evil
@@0nlinediariesXoX The flashback during Naruto and Sasuke does some pretty overt hinting at Itachi having more complicated motives. The conversations with the parents, at the time, were kind of mysterious and clearly implied there was SOMETHING going on with the Uchihas, we just didn't know what. Fugaku seems weirdly understanding of Itachi's distancing from the clan, almost if he kind of understands why Itachi might be acting like this (because he's making his son be a spy for the clan). It keeps making a point about how nice Itachi is and moments that just don't seem fitting for someone who only cares about keeping Sasuke around to test his capacity. He even has a whole monologue about how it's an older brother's job to become a wall for the other brother to over-come, even if it means being hated (with him focusing specifically on how Sasuke should "hate him". I would say that, at the very least, Kishimoto wrote Itachi in a way so that he could decide later on in the story whether he was a good guy or a bad guy.
@@theboy1625 i mean honestly itachi not being the bad guy makes scene given the info in part one from Sasuke's perspective like the amount of shit he could have done but didact would make no logic if he was originally supposed to be a bad guy
I was following the manga as it was coming out. I remember being super confused when I saw black Zetsu take out Madara. More confusion ensued when Kaguya popped out in his place. I remembered having to read the explanation a few times to actually understand what was going on because that shit came out of nowhere. No lead ups, no hints, nothing.
Same, it completely destroyed the momentum of the story.
I remember playing Storm 4 and I was like, "so everything in Naruto happened because Black Zetsu was a mama's boy".
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast.
I think the Zetsu/Kaguya plothole could be covered up if Madara was following the moon eye plan and was unaware that it was really just the ritual to summon Kaguya- rather than Zetsu betraying Madara at the very end in the middle of a fight and bringing Kaguya in. With this new way it sets Kaguya as sort of an Aizen like figure that outsmarted everyone from the start with misinformation and not just some one dimensional final villain with no personal stake in the war affairs.
I’ve always thought this as well. It seemed like such an easy fix, too…
Kishimoto was being rushed to finished the manga, thats why.
Kishi wasn't rushed finishing the manga. He was rushed throughout all of part 2.
Kishi took years to craft part 1 of Naruto and knew what he wanted from the story by the end of the chunnin exams.
But for part 2 kishi had to spit out 1 new chapter per week to keep up with shonin jumps schedule. The man barely had time to rest. All of part 2 was rushed, even the good parts
@@tobysmith2081 No because they wanted him to wrap things up in the war arc, thats why the story seems rushed and plot holes emerge in that arc. Cant really tell me the Pain arc was rushed, it was perfectly concise.
And it could even work in cannon, since we never got the full writing of the Secret Tablet in the Uchiha's House (it was different for every Eye-Power, and we never got the Byakugan text. Just the Sharingan, Mangenkyou and maybe Rinnegan versions).
It was totally possible for a Hyuuga finding the Stone reading and it saying "hey, this is kind of a bad idea... please dont".
I once read about a rumor circulating around, that Kishimoto actually wanted to add Kaguya to his story, he also wanted to add aliens and samurais to the story, the reason he didn't do that was because his editor at that time didn't allow him, because the story wouldn't make any sense, but at the beginning of the great war arc, his editor got changed, because Kishimoto refused to keep on working with said editor, because he claimed that the editor was restricting creativity and the way he wanted to tell the story, so the magazine accepted and changed his editor, and this new editor is the one that allowed him to do a lot of changes going into that arc, and that's why we got aliens and samurai that came out of nowhere, because he wanted to create a story using those elements.
In fact, he wanted to create a story using samurai and aliens so badly, that he went and created samurai 8, a manga so bad, that it ended up getting canceled, I know that those are just rumors, but once you analyze the way the story went down the drain after the pain arc, and the fact that he created samurai 8, and that said manga got canceled, you just have to wonder, are those really empty rumors, or is there some true and validity in them.
But what wasnt a rumor is that Kishimoto was being rushed the entire war arc for the manga to end by Shonen jump. That is what ruined the final arc but not the entire series which is still great.
Shoulda stuck with the first editor...
@@1BuFo there are a lot of things that ruined that arc, the plot holes and favoritism the mangaka gave the uchihas, specially itachi, the power scaling getting out of control, hashirama's cells, the way the hokages were resurrected, but we can universally agree, that what ended up ruining the series completely, was the introduction of kaguya and black zetsu's plan on how to bring her back.
@@bernardocarneiro4081 we can all agree on that, maybe the story would have ended better if he would have kept said editor around.
Paying attention to Boruto being fairly bad too. Our boy Kishimoto was one of those creatives that NEEDED a harsh editor to keep them from having ice cream jutsus, and Lu bu flying on housecats. Not everything a creator does is good and sometimes limits help them do better.
to be fair he did retcon the whole series multiple times throughout the entirety of Shippuden. At first, Shukaku was a monk who was deserted in the desert and became a giant sand creature that went on murdering rampages, and Kurama was a nine tails fox spirit that would be summoned from large amounts of conflicts then Kishimoto introduced the SPS and retconned all of the tailed beasts.
The same goes for Sasuke's Kusanagi sword, the thing could cut through anything and then Kishimoto retconned it so it would only do so when lightning chakra was fed to it, and then to not having the ability whatsoever. I low-key gave up on caring for any of the retcons after the Sasuke thing and fully gave up by the time of the Kage summit.
Oh and if anyone else noticed small retcons in the series that you didn't like please leave it in the replies to this comment.
There are more retcons
Like Hashirama being the strongest hokage and his cells serves any plote hole
@@orochieditzzWho wouldn't want the DNA of the "god of shinobi"?
@orochieditzz he was the strongest maybe compared to naruto but no other hokage can compare to him. His cells are not a recon they have been a point through out naruto even starting at third season.
Kakashi being a jounin early to being shown in chuunin exam with the same age as everyone else
Kishimoto is an awful writer, he constantly did asspull after asspull. I was following the manga around the time of the war arc and boy every week was some sort of stupid asspull. The peak was when kid obito came back from the grave to magically give kakashi 2 mangakeyo sharingans and he flawlessly summons susano despite not even being an uchiha... The outrage was crazy around then lol
The whole "reincarnation" thing was DEFINITELY a retcon and incredibly stupid, Itachi being the good guy all along possibly was so but this ended up making him a more interesting character in the end which helped the story. Black Zetsu and the aliens attacking the Naruto world on the other hand was just awful. I HATE the ending of Naruto for this and would go so far to call it a bad manga.
Nope disagree about itachi
What disturbed me about the "reincarnation" thing was the fact Indra and Ashura lived thousands of years ago and yet only had TWO reincarnations (as explicitly mentioned) and those reincarnations lived so close to each other in terms of timeline. Like Hashirama and Madara were just a bit above 60-70 years before Sasuke and Naruto were born. Like, I expected there were other incarnations in the span of thousands years but NOPE. It's explicitly mentioned Indra and Ashura only had two Reincarnations, TF is wrong with Kishimoto? He completely butchered it.
@@rachelciel3330 I don't remember it being explicitly stated that Hashirama and Madara were the only previous reincarnations.
@@TemujinTheKhan Way too convenient
@@rachelciel3330 it's outright Saif that there were other reincarnations, what are you talking about?
Itachi being a good guy is absolutely a retcon. If he wanted to protect his brother, he would not have deliberately encouraged him to dedicated his entire life to becoming an avenger for his clan. He would not have explicitly told him to kill his best friend for power, and he certainly wouldn't have traumatized him into a comatose state that could only be healed by Tsunade, who abandoned her life as a doctor after being traumatized by the death of her family! If it hadn't been for Naruto and Orochimaru, Tsunade was perfectly willing to let Sasuke die in the hospital! So much for trying to protect him!
Remember how the Senju was treating the Uchiha like shit? Oh yeah every girl in class was fawning over Sasuke instead of being scared of him.
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast.
@@lycan2494 What a bitch of a comment. lol
@@lycan2494 Yup this
Since zetsu first showed up after Naruto and Sasuke's first fight at the end of part one I knew he would be important or be more powerful than he let on, but instead of making him the final villain they recon it so that he was only there to revive kaguya which was dumb.
it made sense from a narrative point of view
@@D_Owo it wasn’t a satisfying end to such a great villain tho.
@@Approvedjoey117 it may not have been satisfactory I agree with u in that but the writing behind it made sense
Ya he acts like zetsu wasn't the only person that obito would listen to and then madira was a vengeful and single minded makes him easier to manipulate and I agreed with you completely
@@D_Owo Cope
I wouldn’t say it was plot destroying, but Madara not being the final villain was such a kick to the groin because we spent the last few chapters excited to see how Team 7 defeat Madara, the guy who can defeat Tailed Beasts with a flick of his wrists at less than half of his current strength. But then to see him die in the most shittiest of ways to make room for the actual big bad was actually the worst part. Zetsu didn’t manipulate _everything._ Only parts that involve the Tsuki no Me plan, specifically getting Senju and Uchiha to fight and to plant the idea of reviving the Ten Tails into Madara and Obito’s heads to put the world into the Infinite Tsukiyomi. Everything else, like Sasuke leaving for Orochimaru, Sasuke defeating Itachi and acquiring the EMS, Naruto learning Sage Jutsu and learning to control Kurama were all just happy accidents.
Agreed, and personally, I had a tough time getting hyped about Madara... he already lost once (kinda thought the whole plot about him being alive because Izanagi was dumb). Even with that said, how he died still felt a bit shitty, so sure it wasn't great, but it didn't ruin the whole show.
Double Agreed,
Zetsu didn't manipulate every second of the story. That's just a massive overstatement. Madara being killed off by him sucks and Kaguya sucks, but none of the Zetsu shenanigans "ruined the whole story by controlling everything". Honestly I don't even hate the idea of a unforeseen mastermind causing big plot shifts, just unfortunate one of the best villians ever had to be discarded unjustly.
@@craigyeah1052But him reviving himself through izanagi and revealing he had bitten a piece of hashirama's flesh, so he can develop rinnegan years later was very good planning. It was completely different from the sudden ass pull that was black Zetsu's manipulation.
I like zestu more,it is the kaguya thing that bugs me.
@@azidahaka8543 Nah, I think him biting a piece of Hashirama's flesh to develop the Rinnegan years after his death is a bigger ass-pull than someone working behind the scene in the shadows.
I’m sorry, but the best antagonist in naruto is easily pain.
fair, yet a normie take
@@DygoKnight i mean, character, origins, motivation,relation to the main character, powers, narrative potential, themes,design,symbolism,atmosphere…he is just way above the rest. This is not just some personal opinion, this is a throughout analysis and honestly pain is above the rest.
@@ninshu6paths659 def normie af
What other villain other than a coveted Uchiha is better? I think he makes the best point about who the villain is. Not only did Pain show range in character from seemingly defenseless & no courage. Then progresses to decent enough strength to protect his friends. Only after seeing his comrades die in battle and his idols being corrupt did he choose the dark path. He used his sensory ability to watch over an entire..come on that’s not a normie take you’d do a video on that soon enough.
A normie take would be Madara, someone preferring Pain as a villain is fine.
I followed Naruto from middle school to my junior year of high school and that Zetsu plot twist hurt so bad. After years of consistently following the story through it’s highs & lows, it felt like Kishimoto just took all the years of goodwill built up and slam dunked it in the trash. I couldn’t believe it. Like the Tobi reveal was good enough, this last minute Zetsu/Kaguya twist was so unnecessary. All these years later it still irks me. What a shame.
what would you change?
I felt the same way after reading the new Boruto chapter. Himawari and Boruto having a piece of Kyuubi inside them or having that type of fantastic power makes sense.
But Kishimoto undermined everything Naruto went through, burying him. Kurama blatantly stated, "You're stronger than all my Hosts before," it was eye-rolling that this character, who was barely shown in the manga, was given such an upgrade in minutes, and the previous main character's achievements were watered downed just to hype her up.
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast.
The funniest part of the whole black zetsu thing was I accidentally predicted it, as a joke. While watching Naruto I’d successfully predicted a lot and was basically live texting my predictions to a friend as well as getting really hyped when my predictions turned out to be correct, he was also getting hyped up and surprised by how accurate my guesses were. When I off handedly made a joke about how ridiculous this ending was with all the surprise secret mastermind bs, and I said something to the effect of, lmao watch zetsu be the surprise final boss that masterminded everything. I sincerely meant that as a joke because in my mind, that’d be so dumb and pointless there’s no way that’s what happens. I absolutely lost my shit when it was revealed that he was the secret 10D chess grandmaster and while he wasn’t technically the final boss I was still dumb struck. The dumbest thing I could imagine, and then vocalized to a friend, actually happened. Man the war arc was dumb.
Proof?
@@GrandisArcanum proof you lost your virginity? Ha, didn’t think so 😊
@@GrandisArcanum courts asking oj for proof of his alibi vs white teens asking for proof on UA-cam 😂
It's possible. Many people were predicting tobi was Obito ever since that kakashi gaiden special chapter.
Did the same exact thing my sole and only reason was just cause there’s was only one of him
The fanfiction in my mind wanted Zetsu to be the "soul" of the ten tails. He started the whole series because he wanted his original form and chakra back. It also could have potentially manipulated Kaguya into doing his bidding. The two sage brothers would have wanted revenge to avenge their mother and save the world. Zetsu could have been a dangerous character for the story and an important one.
That sounds like a better plot than what we got lol
No because he can just go to jigen
@@catking7901 who is jigen?
@@IF_Saga an otsutsuki in boruto
The “soul” of the Ten Tails is Kagaya though, because Zetsu is a glorified karma seal.
I think that Kishimoto wrote himself into a corner a few times...first in how strong he made Madara....Meaning he had to boost naruto and Sasuke...but then noticed that he over did it to a point so he needed to boost madara again as the 10 tails jinchuriki....basically making him the new sage....
he needed to either boost Naruto again , nerf madara or do something new...he chosed to boost madara and to pull an ever stronger villain that had a huge weakness so even if she was stronger ...Kaguya had an achiles tendon that Madara wouldnt ever have...
It was the wrong choise at the wrong time, i wont lie, im glad we got to see Kaguya but i wish it wasnt like that, atlest we got Nartuto using the Ultimate Jutsu , the reverse Harem
they didn't have to introduce kagyua tho. they could have explained that the sage could be sealed with a particular technique. it could have gone anywhere - but someone made a good point, perhaps they said this up like this for boruto, and in that context it makes more sense
I think it would be better if she was mentioned in naruto and later used in boruto as some strong enemy
This was always planned
Zetsu who betrayed Madara was planned since the ending of part 1. The chapters 233 and 234 show Sasuke having a similar reaction as Hashirama (chapter 626) at the fact zetsu observe them and Kakashi said in these chapters how similar the story of Naruto and Sasuke is with the story of Hashirama and Madara (which is a direct foreshadowing of the reincarnations of Indra and Ashura manipulated by Zetsu). Kishimoto could't write in a corner if he planned the defeat of Madara for 8 years before it happened
Japanese speaks in 3 ways: Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji. Everyone in Naruto speak in Hiragana except 1 character since his first appearance and it's Black Zetsu. When the divine tree (Kaguya) speak to Madara to absorb her, the dialog was written in Katakana, it's a direct foreshadowing of Black zetsu being his true will. It's for this reason that for us zetsu being the will of Kaguya come out of nowhere when the Japanese are probably aware that this event will happen
So yes, Kishimoto always planned this event
@@hc.117 Nah, that's putting way too much thought into a random throwaway line. That Naruto and Sasuke were similar to Madara and Hashirama was just supposed to be a generation thing, showing that history always repeats itself, which was brought up all the way back at the first battle at the valley of the end at the end of Pre-Shippuuden Naruto. It wasn't ment to foreshadow the reincarnation bullshit at all. That would have made little sense that the very story arc before that battle had a major character moment where Naruto makes it a point to asy to Neji that destiny is bullshit and he has to forge his own path. If Kishimoto had already planned that Naruto was just BSing Neji because he was actually the chosen one all along then Kishimoto is an even worse writer than I thought.
And nah, that Zetsu "had something up his sleeve" was set up but anything about Madara wasn't planned at the very least before Sasuke killed Itachi.
So nah, you're just coping hard and trying to make Kishimoto some masterwriter when really, he did the standard "I will just hint that 3-4 characters in the story have a bigger role to fill and then eventually I'll figure out what that is" thing that most hack writers do.
@EskChan19
If you want to know the reincarnation point is actually a cultural problem that Naruto has. This comes from the fact that the Japanese have a very different view of seeing these concepts.
I'm sorry if this is a bit long and complicated.
This reincarnation, like this story of child of the prophecy are actually Buddhist concepts (the samsara and karma) which are well known in Japan and Asia. Rinnegan literally means "the samsara eye" and karma you generally know what it is (as a reminder if you do good/bad things, good/bad things happen to you).The main concept of this reincarnation is that each person's basic situation is caused by the karma of the actions of their past lives (in this case the basic situations of Naruto and Sasuke were greatly influenced by the actions of Hashirama and Madara) but despite everything they can react in the present by their own actions (which explains the end, and yes this thing is the logical continuity with Neji). Page 70 of Naruto databook 4 also confirms that the cycle of reincarnation in which Naruto and Sasuke are is the samsara. Naruto who is the reincarnation of Ashura is nothing special, it's just a natural phenomenon on how many people view life in Japan (and Asia). Globally, there are between 1 and 1.6 billion people in the world who believe in samsara (Hinduism and Buddhism combined). It's just that here Kishimoto tries to deal with this aspect by showing that even if what happens to you is similar it doesn´t mean that you will make the same choices (as the rikudo says)
For the story of the child of the prophecy, the prophecies also exist in his religions. It´s actually the actions specific only to Naruto because what Gamamaru sees is the karma of individuals (page 83 of databook 4 explains that gamamaru has the power to see the karma of individuals, in Buddhism it´s the divine eye power from what I have read). This is again a problem of cultural conception
Naruto also has a third level reading on religion (which is basically its main subject if you look deeper) since the conflicts between the Uchiha and the Senju are in terms of beliefs a big representation of the conflicts that exist between Shintoism and Buddhism (which are the 2 main religions of Japan, besides susano, amaterasu, izanami/izanagi etc… come from Shinto folklore),and the manga ends on the fact that it´s by overcoming hatreds and divisions and by advancing together that it will be possible to bring peace and build a better world (moreover for the anecdote, in Japan it´s possible to be believers of the 2 religions). I get these informations from several searches on the internet (wikipedia, interviews and forums), in term of video I recommend the video of Korean Dost on Naruto and also the video, Naruto's Complex Subtext and Themes: Buddhism, Shintoism, and Hinduism if you are interested .
I don't try to pretend something. I just watch the facts from what they are
Everything in Naruto was planned and make sense but because of cultural differences we couldn't see it unfortunately😕😕😕
3:54 Calling him Right hand man while showing picture him being in her LEFT hand
people: i wish zetsu had more relevance, his design was cool
kishimoto: your wish has been granted
the monkey's paw curls a finger
they honestly should have kept black zetzu as a low key spy type. Keep his back story a mystery, it fits his character
Kishimoto wrote himself into a corner. He made Madara too OP and had to pull some shit out of his ass to get rid of him. There was no way they were beating Madara.
Made madara too powerful so needed to introduce an even more powerful character along with shitty lore makes sense.
@@5koby4 and that’s why the end of Shoppuden sucked lol
@@mwillia1026 Agreed whenever I rewatch I always just stop after Naruto beats pain because I dislike the ending so much. I would actually prefer kishimoto retcon it and have Naruto wake up from infinite Tsukyomi and we find out a lot of what happened during the war arc was just his dream.
Yes, there was no way of defeating madara so he introduced a more powerfull villain.... makes sense.
@@ceshmate1953 Kaguya was more powerful but far less intelligent. She got finessed by the sexy jutsu you think she would’ve beat Madara???
I had no idea that Kaguya was an editor mandate. Everything makes much more sense now
She wasnt the guy is waffeling
I haven't been able to find any evidence that this is true.
@@thec4keyou the type of MF who doesn't believe in air because he can't see it
I feel like if they would’ve had a Orochimaru say something about it in part one for him being obsessed with kimimaru it would’ve at least planted the seed of who the hell was he talking about because he’s definitely one of those characters like Madara and Itachi who just know crazy information like that.
@thec4ke the evidence is reading the manga and seeing it come outta nowhere with 0 foreshadowing and the way it demolished the entire story.
Kaguya was an awful villain for me, not only did she steal the spotlight off of Madaran a villain hyped up for seven long years, but she was just bland. She is an alien with no personality to speak of, her backstory is forgettable, she lacks any interesting philosophy or motivations, her powers just resembled DBZ rather than Naruto, and she didn't even last that long against Naruto and his crew.
kaguya wasn't a top tier villain but i dont believe she was bad
Yeah i totally agree it just destroyed the build up of hype just to have a bland character to bring in a super bland anime imo which is Borruto.
I really don't care for the Otsutsuki apart from Hagoromo and his brother i know Kaguya was their mother ofc but that's the only redeeming quality i think personally.
I know she was sooo bland it's upsetting. Force a little bit of character and motivation in there please. I mean imo Madara was bland too, and his motivation dumb, but hey at least he had one.
Man not a single joke in the video, I feel your pain
Btw side question - have you read Berserk
I have not, it's definitely one of those things I should definitely have read but never got down to do it
@@DygoKnight well whenever you decide to you'll be in for a ride, it's awesome
Who's been messing up everything?
It's been Black Zetsu all along
Who's been pulling every evil string?
It's been Black Zetsu all along
he's insidious (ha-ha!)
So perfidious
That you haven't even noticed
And the pity is (the pity is)
Pity, pity, pity, pity
It's too late to fix anything
Now that everything has gone wrong
Thanks to Black Zetsu (ha!)
Naughty Black Zetsu
It's been Black Zetsu all along!
And I killed Madara too AHAHAHAA
Should have just let Gai kill Madara, Nobody would expect a side character to actually beat the main villain. Usually shounen manga require the main hero to be the answer to everything. In a way it would have made Naruto feel more realistic and unpredictable.
Look I hate to break it to you but the narrative of Naruto was already a fucking mess by this point anyway. This certainly didn't help but to act like it was some grand, well written series up to this point is just not true. It had wild character inconsistencies, painfully forced plot points granting characters stupid amounts of plot armor, self contradictions, and more random shit thrown at the wall to see what sticks than anyone cares to admit.
I agree.
This guy genuinely watched Sasuke survive 4 fatal encounters during his fight with Itachi + Killer B + the Kage Arc with nothing but the grace of plot armor and thinks the story was written well until the very end. Hell Deidara not diffing Sasuke at the end of their fight was a huge plot convenience.
I have never agreed with a UA-cam video more in my entire life. I found myself nodding along with literally everything. Thanks for posting this to talk about the thoughts that I’ve tried to articulate to people for years. Now I can just link them to this video.
And I definitely agree, you have to remove this shite-storm of a plot ending from your HC if you are ever gonna enjoy Naruto. I’ve come to the point in my journey as a Naruto fan that I literally just like it for the story and the characters, and I always describe it as ‘a story with wonderful potential whose author just got burned out’ or ‘a good story told badly’
After all these years, it still burns me too. The entire war arc had massive problems from start to finish. It seemed like Kishimoto threw every idea he ever sketched down into this arc, whether they served the story or not. He should have either cut out half of it or added 2-3 more arcs to let the story breathe.
I feel like the Obito and Zetsu comparison kind of makes your point seem hypocritical. You can say oh characters have no purpose shouldn’t have a significant effect and then say that a character needs hidden importance. Zetsu was the all seeing and all knowing creature. He was foreshadowed to know all events. Such as Obito was there as a comic relief and then became a bigger character. I feel like this argument is more of someone just complaining about not liking the ending of Naruto…
To be fair… Shounen Jump isn’t entirely to blame, Kishimoto wrote himself into a corner with how powerful he made Madara, even after Naruto and Sasukes six paths power ups he was still fending them off with ease and there was inevitably going to be something dumb that took him down
So introduce Kaguya who's more powerful 🤔
@@arachnid5557 yes, introduce a villain with a clearer weakness
@@exodus9669kishimoto Simp
@@maalikserebryakov you replied to the wrong guy bro
Discovery writers in a nutshell
3:28 give me a source for that
He made it up
I disagree on one thing, it doesnt make characters passive, because when black zetsu said that the entire shinobi history was his, Naruto counter argumented that, using the sexy jutsu proving him that he didnt actually controll him. Later on, Naruto opposes several times to black zetsu statement, that was the whole phyilosophical theme of the fight.
Still, I agree that Kaguya introduction was horrible for killing Madara and no foreshadowing
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast. Also Kaguya is way more powerful than Madara.
Honestly I don’t think zetsu pulling the strings all along was the problem. I think that it actually makes sense that he made sure to set a conflict between the uchiha and senjiu. He started all the conflict and kinda just let it play its course knowing that one day the reincarnations would look for power and turn to him. Through most of the plot zetsu doesn’t really do anything because he doesn’t need too, all he had to do is lead Madara to believe that he can become the god of shinobi by gaining the power of the ten tails and then madara would set everything up for him. By doing this he manipulates madara into manipulating others. Zetsu has no control over a majority of the plot because he has no control over how characters like pain, Naruto, and Sasuke will act. Like everything to do with orochimaru has nothing to do with zetsu since orochimaru left the Akatsuki. The characters think and act independently, just they are lead to the end which zetsu desires
Yeah, I thought this must be something very obvious in Naruto story if you deep watch it, their action is definitely not controlled, it's indeed their independent action, also it's always been implied that Black Zetsu only manipulate Uchiha and senju then it affects everything. I don't know why he came up with the idea that Black Zetsu is controlling/pulling every single action of every character in the world, he only make sure the result is as he wants and that is to get Madara (or anyone probably Obito) to activate Mugen Tsukoyomi and became ten tails jinchuriki (sage of six paths) to revive his mother, and that's it
There are so many variables that has to go right for Zetsus "plan" to work. It cheapens the story when you say that he was behind everything and it such a shitty twist when all it have is was an alien and a shitty sequel.
@@phirefox375 Fundamentally, the only thing necessary for the plan is for someone to return all the Bijuu to the Gedo Mazo, become the Juubi Jinchuuriki and cast Mugen Tsukuyomi. This is not that hard to achieve. Almost anything could've gone differently and it would be easy to course correct, for example, the character of Obito is totally optional and the plan would still work out without him. Zetsu is still actively present and can improvise, it's not that hard.
@@Supahdenning this
@@Supahdenning why are we trying so hard to make sense of zetsu’s millenia long master plan? I’m not ok with shutting down my brain just to try to believe that the last part of shippuden made any sense
This was the beginning of the end now we got boruto…. Black zetsu stabbing madara in the back is symbolic of the writers stabbing us in the back
Boruto sends his regards 💀
I remember when I saw obito back story for the first time and I tell my friends that he was obito because of the good eye placement, the hair and the fact that he was around Kakashi height but they were too dumb to believe me . Couple years later when it was revealed they were like " you never said that and sh*t " . Now I torture them by ( not remembering) stuff with them.
I thought tobi being obito was a red herring, it seemed too obvious and would argue with my friends there was no way. Boy was I wrong 😭
@@OldManJenkins69 too obvious? in what way
@@OldManJenkins69 probably that was there thought processes too but didn't want to give me the satisfaction of being right
@@D_Owo he means that he wanted everyone to think it was obito then Boom! It was sishuie or something
@@D_Owo They decide to show us Obito's backstory right before the arc which introduces Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharingan, Kamui, and Tobi. Just seeing the Mangekyo on Kakashi alone should already give some hints that something might have happened with regards to Rin (we already know at this point you can only get it from killing the person closest to you, and with Obito already dead, and Rin very obviously not around in the present day, you can put 2 and 2 together). One of the first things people started saying when Tobi turned up was that he was Obito (even his name is a bit obvious. It's just Obito's name but the the "O" removed and the other two characters swapped around.
I think that zetsu’s control was only really emphasized on key events like madara turning evil or the hate between ashura and Indra. I think the regular things were inconsequential to his plan, like sasuke leaving or who joined the akatsuki. I think they all had agency except a few people who were heavily influenced by zetsus plan. I don’t really think it was that bad but I do agree they could have foreshadowed it a bit earlier then just when hagoromo told them about Kaguya when he gave them six paths powers.
Zetsu bolster the conflict in the shinobi world, didn't he? That just retcons one of the major plot points for a made-up fantasy conspiracy if true.
I agree I think it was the big stuff like I doubt he cared about all the little things, like this video is tryna make it seem like no one had free will and zetsu planned every little thing.
Tfw you realize they basically did a dragon ball z. Kaguya being the first as raditz ans then the rest of her family being vegeta and nappa on the way
Honestly madara or sasuke would have been fine final villians, this whole thing felt like kishimoto wanting to be "unique" and "subversive".
nah, they forced him into doing it
@@DygoKnight damn. It's hard to tell how much Shonen jump helicopters their properties, because there's so much misinformation like "kishimoto said in an interview" blah blah lol.
Not really, there was some foreshadowing with kimmimaro being descended from the kaguya clan( This is why kaguya has bone manipulation) but I think kishimoto forgot about it until he needed a way to defeat Madara.
@@justinarzola4584 I dont think you know what foreshadowing means
@@randomico7632 it's pretty poor foreshadowing but it's still foreshadowing.
Black Zetsu being the harbinger of everything was just a stupid writing choice. Just as stupid as the whole reincarnation nonsense with Naruto and Sasuke. By having BZ orchestrating every single event, the story feels less organic and just convenient and forced. Plus it makes no sense. Everything and everyone in the story had to fall in the right place for BZ's elaborate plan to work, and BZ himself didn't even have direct contact with any of the main characters, just Obito, Madara and the Akatsuki. BZ also isn't complex or interesting enough as a character to pull off an Aizen trick.
Good thing he wasn't actually the harbinger of everything and was just the puppet master pulling a puppet master by the strings. But most of you genuinely do not understand how written stories work and expect everything to be explained to you (like the salty ass person in this video) that you can't see what the author is writing, only paying attention to the things the author DIDN'T write for you. Black Zetsu made complete sense, he manipulated Madara and gaslit him into thinking he could be a god. Then he stepped back and let the rest come to pass.
Zetsu being the villain and mastermind, exposing himself in the end, only shows one thing: He is a true ninja in a story about ninja!
Yeah, sadly people outside Japan don't realize it lol. That backstab was a homage to the origin of many shinobi fiction. A stagehand (who disappears in the background) in old Kabuki Plays suddenly became part of the play and stabbed the main guy. The audience was shook, mad, etc.
It also elevates Madara as a ninja character. He said he's no longer a shinobi... If his plan succeeded, he'd be the only one left to endure guarding over sleeping people. Shinobi as a word means "Heart, Knife" or "One, Endures". Metaphorically it means "those who endure like they're being stabbed in the heart". Madara couldn't escape the fact that he's a shinobi, a tool to be used.
@@clarashintaaa8814 Omg thank you, I was scrolling through the comments and was mad that I only find comments about how the story was ruined xD and I was about to write the same thing as you until I found out about your comment
@@clarashintaaa8814 It was still bad writing at the end of the day, Kishimoto didn't execute his "homage" properly
@@smaragdchaos ??? An aspect of writing around Obito's character revolves around "No One" stopping Madara. Since Obito failed to be No One, it was Black Zetsu that's actually been refered to. Madara said to Hashirama that's "no one could catch his back" under Nakano Shrine. He managed to trick Hashirama in the final valley battle.
Readers were also shown that former 10-Tails Jinchuriki Obito could penetrate his chest, Black Zetsu in the end used the same body to backstab Madara.
In the Japanese manga, only Black Zetsu used constant special archaic Katakana speech pattern. The mysterious voice that spoke and guided Madara to absorb Shinju was in fact in the same special speech pattern.
There was also this convo after a hill climbing race between Madara and Hashirama:
Hashirama: *depressed*
Madara: Why do you get depressed so easily, honestly, that's your weakness.
Hashirama: *suddenly started running to the top" I won!
Madara: You were PRETENDING! And you STARTED BEFORE me.
Hashirama: You are unexpectedly gullible, Madara. That's your weakness.
Katakana speech pattern is used to emphasize and is an archaic way of speaking.
@@clarashintaaa8814 It was bad writing that Black Zetsu turned on Madara in the first place, when we were explicitly shown that Madara created Black Zetsu, and that he somehow did anything noteworthy when Kishimoto boosted Madara to such obscene levels. The only good thing about it is that Naruto and Sasuke didn't get an undeserved win against Madara, but at the end of the day, nobody really proved Madara's ideology wrong, so the final clash of ideologies was left unresolved
My head cannon is that Madara successfuly got team 7 trapped in the Tsukuyomi. Boruto is just the dream Naruto is having, which explains a lot more than it being the actual reality. Thus, I perceive Naruto as a tragedy, and Boruto proof that Madara won that battle in the end.
Black Zetsu really did ruin Naruto. It made no sense both from a story structure standpoint and also from a power scaling standpoint. Madara who to this point survived getting hit by a person who used all 8 gates and survived. Madara who dodged a teleportation sneak attack from Tobirama with one eye open. Madara who fought the Tailed beasts blind. Madara who fought an entire Ninja Army by himself. Madara whose back was never taken his whole life except by Hashirama who he respected... Is fisted in the back by a Black Zetsu.
Black Zetu didnt kill Madara, he died because the biju were extracted from him.
And from a thematical point of view, which I like to emphasise as separate from the story itself.
@@Cloke100 false, you are talking about Jubito
@@chadbrad8100 Madara died because the juubi (kaguya) was extracted from him
I've thought about making a video about this for years. Kaguya is the worst antagonist in fiction and the Zetsu retcon ruins the cycles of pain theme from the Pain arc.
Zetsu wasn’t a retcon, Kishimoto likely had the ending of Naruto on a rough draft by the end of part 1 Naruto. Kimimaro is stated to be from the Kaguya clan and possesses a watered-down version of her bone Kekkei Mora, and Black Zetsu is seen observing Naruto and Sasuke’s fight, which in hindsight makes perfect sense since he’s been monitoring the reincarnates for ages. There’s no way that was all done by mistake, Kishimoto planned this the same way he teased Tobi being Obito from day 1.
@@Borchert97 it’s hard to believe that a writing genius that created naruto out of nothing not being able to see that kaguya-zetsu betrayal was one of the worst writhing a man can create to a almost perfect story.
@@Borchert97 I can see both sides of whether or not Zetsu is a retcon but I honestly don't care whether or not Zetsu is a retcon, either way it completely ruined the series.
@@viniciorangel6223 that’s entirely subjective. I think it was crazy good writing and good foreshadowing on Kishimoto’s part to include Black Zetsu observing Naruto and Sasuke even back during part 1, showing that he had a personal interest in those two. Why else would he go out of his way to watch that fight? Maybe because Naruto is the Nine-Tails, sure, but we know that the Nine-Tails needed to be sealed last so there was really no reason to be there. He was also present for watching Sasuke’s fight with Itachi, which was likely to do with watching the Indra reincarnate progress.
@@Borchert97 obito ordered zetsu to go watch over the sauske vs itachi fight cuz obito was waiting for itachi to die so he can attack the hidden leaf and in the process obito wanted to recruits sasuke who had lots of potential to the akatsuki
*We gotta fight kabuto, but kabuto is being controlled by orochimaru, so we gotta fight orochimaru. But orochimaru was just a goon for pain, so we gotta fight pain. But pain is being controlled by nagato, so we gotta fight nagato. But nagato was being controlled by obito, so we gotta fight obito. But obito was bei g controlled by Madara, so we gitta fight Madara. But madara was being controlled by kaguya, so we gitta fight kaguya. But kaguya was being controlled by black zetsu THE WHOLE TIME.*
It didnt start with zetsu.
I wouldn't say Kaguya showing up is necessarily a bad thing, it could've worked if a few things were changed. The issues with it are 1. it removes the payoff from Madara's arc 2. there was pretty much no foreshadowing. If the story was rewritten to include Kaguya as some legendary figure kind of like the sage of six paths and we had gotten a real fight between Naruto, Sasuke and Madara then it would've been fine. Maybe they're fighting for a long time, like 2 or 3 whole episodes and Madara is on the ropes and right as he's about to get sealed that's when Kaguya shows up.
1. it doesn't rlly remove the payoff seeing as how madara got a satisfying an well written death
2. kaguya was foreshadowed from pre time skip
@@D_Owo But he didn't lose to Naruto and Sasuke, he lost and some cheap bs way. How so? Don't try to say the "Kaguya clan" was foreshadowing of Kaguya lol.
@@Nick-ij5nt love how u just ignore how he was given a well written death next to hashirama😂😂😂 also the kaguya clan is clear foreshadowing of kaguya💀💀💀 u not accepting it is literally just u ignore the good writing. Also she was referenced by madara and hagoromo
I think in massive retrospect it works well enough, but definitely isn't cathartic like the final villain should probably be.
1. I think she is the payoff for Madara's arc. Madara fought to end the duality of man and create a perfect world where only winners can exist. He had to accept all chakra, and thus, all contradiction in the world to achieve this. I don't think Naruto can defeat someone who does not conform to an ideological flaw or contradiction like Madara (who acknowledges its inevitability and strives to take it all for the sake of humanity). Madara was taken down by someone who essentially exists outside of the human condition he fought against, simply because she was not human.
2. There was *some* foreshadowing, but there could have been more. When we see Hashirama strike Madara down, he notices something on the cliffs, and it is revealed to have been Black Zetsu many dozen chapters later. People tend to forget about that detail, so I figured I'd mention it. I can't think of a way to foreshadow Kaguya more without giving it away, which is why I can give this a pass.
@@uchihastonetablet6061 u explained it pretty well tbf
I used to be upset about it, but now that I've come to terms with it, I kind of like it when I think about it a certain way.
Madara was the main villain of the entire story. All bad things that happen ever since, and even before the birth of our main character come from him. He manipulates people to his will, using whatever tactics he deems fit, no matter how barbaric. He is the mastermind. The smartest. The strongest. No one can compare.
At the end, Obito realized he had been conned, and it was all a mistake. He had been lied to and taken advantage of, and robbed of who he could have been, all at the hands of Madara, and it was sad to see. Madara felt no remorse using people and throwing them away.
How ironic it turned out to be, that all along, he was a pawn in someone else's plan. In the final moments of his life, he realized that he was manipulated to do what somebody else wanted, and he never seen it coming. He died with the knowledge that he had done someone else's bidding, and followed someone else's plan, and he thought it was his own. The same way he fucked everybody, he got fucked. How poetic is that?
I do think it was a bad move overall, but it was such a deserving end for the character. Again, a bummer for the audience. I also would have liked to see him actually fight and lose fair and square, but that was exactly what he deserved. He died as he lived.
Agreed, yes zetsu was an "irrelevant" character, but that sort of adds a poetic element to it all.
Madara was a legendary figure who manipulated the most important events of the story. But his main flaw was his arrogance. Infinite sukiyomi was an extention of that arrogance: he believed he knew what was best for everyone, and was willing to force that on the world.
When he meddled with a the power of the gods he opened pandoras box, and despite being "the most important naruto character", he had played his hand, becuase he was nothing but a pawn in the scope of the Kaguya. The fact that not even the audience saw it coming, and that the the instigator was essentially a forgotten character. Further elevates the meaning of his death when you think about it.
Madara's demise is a tale about arrogance and self deception. Even if you believe you are fighting for the ultimate good, if you do so by imposing your ideals on the world, you put the fate of the world to the inevitable risk that you weren't as all-knowing or all-powerful as you had thought.
Sure the retcon sort of came out of nowhere and if you were waiting for naruto and sasuke to beat up Madara you were sort of left disappointed. I also agree that Kaguya was a pretty bland villain all things considered. But i think from an thematic perspective it ended being a great allegory against arrogance, authoritarianism, and utilitarianism.
Cope( good for you glad you can enjoy it)
@@robertterrell7057 I mean, the options are find meaning in it or be mad about it for the rest of your life because it's not gonna change, so.....
@@trexxis812 No. You have to stay mad after all these years! /s
The sheer amounts of copium in this comment is really saddening, the fact this retcon has forced us to think like this 😭
I don't always agree on your takes. For exemple i like Kabuto. But i can respect that you're a good critic, if only because you explain greatly why retcons can be as good for a story as it can break it.
And even without that your opinions are always detailed.
Great video! I like your work.
If this video was an example of this person being a good critic then I'm so glad this is the only video I've watched of his.
I have my fair share of problems with black. Godlike madara with a complex about people standing behind his back not noticing/doing anything about black, naruto not sensing his ill intent, or even madara for that matter, some plot holes, a barely foreshadowed(not non-existent, but barely existent) retcon.
But the point made in this video about agency makes absolutely no sense and is hot garbage.
Everybody still had their intentions, motivations and personality. Nobody lost agency here. Just because their actions lead them to something they didn't expect doesn't make them loose agency. Everybody was still active agents in their own rights in this context. Like, I still literally agree with Madaras infinite virtual reality heaven plan. And black fits into these well too. Specially with the stone tablet stuff.
This dude just used some writing buzzwords with no understanding of what they mean and yall just going along with it because,"Zetsu bad." is the popular opinion.
Yes, Zetsu is bad. But just because Zetsu bad, "Zetsu bad for being useless to the story" doesn’t become right. Someone still has to critic bad things for the right reasons.
@@thecracker6000 None of their choices were ever choices dude. Zetsu literally said the story of the Shinobi was orchestrated by him, he's responsible for every action everyone took because HE presented the options. He choose what they could choose, manipulated what they would choose. Nobody had agency because every single thing that happened was him, that's what was stated.
Kaguya was actually referenced with Kimimaru and his clan hailing from Kaguya. But that was it. No other mention or build up til her appearance.
The problem with Naruto was trying to be more big that it could, each time raising the stakes of a series that started with a pretty down to earth story. Most of people agree that Pain should have be the end point of the plot, that fight felt like a final boss, its was grandiose ennough for the series without turning into a DBZ fuckfest. Felt that Kishimoto forgot that this was a series about a lonely underdog boy that everyone hated trying to become a hero to the village and the leader (hokage) and not the messias savior of the intire world, The series ended and he was not even Hokage.
@Lucas Walker Maybe Madara could be the last villain but they would need to rework a lot of the plot so that we dont get that garbage war arc. For me i would actually make sasuke the final villain after Pain, ending with him dying, because he is a criminal
I seem to be the only one who liked how Madara was defeated. I don’t think getting his ass kicked by Naruto & Sakura or a Talk Bo Jutsu would have stopped him: he was set in his way. Learning that way- his lifetime plan was nothing but a lie felt to me the right path. My only issue is that I would have liked him to remain in the storyline, dealing with the “My life is a lie” revelation, or being the one to throw Zetsu out before dying himself.
Even against Madara the power scaling was already past bullshit levels, the fight was already getting nonsensical, shredding the power system of the story, i would have rather just hear them say "Drop the nukes" cause at least with nukes i can enjoy the process of how a nuke makes the explosion it does, it has a level of logical abstraction that people could enjoy. Kaijuu bombs and black spheres of death capable of everything ? AND Now you replace god with G O D and now all sorts of bullshit cosmical energy infused Rasengan is happening, Obito became god oh but wait hes dead oh but wait he sucked himself back from heaven into Kakashi's soul to give him both eyes and Kakashi just pops a perfect Susano.. FUCKING SAKURA punching G O D
After all this the Naruto vs Sasuke just feels unreal, is this even the same show ? Everybody loved THE last fight where they actually use Taijutsu and hand signs and all sorts of clever tactics.
"The goal was never the destination but the journe-" fuck that.. If i'm being honest, just because of this alone i cannot recommend it to anyone, i cannot even say just watch it up until 'Pain' because up until the very end nothing really concludes. If anything i'd just say don't ever watch an episode or interact with the series at all.
To be fair the story was already destroyed way before that. I don't think he knew how to progress with the story after the Pain arc
True
Nah, the war arc had great potential, without Zetsu, the story could still work.
But then again, the entire childhood flashbacks were constantly retconned from "Naruto completely isolated" to "A few people liked him" to "Naruto regularly played with many children"
Kishimoto lost ALL teeth in the story. This story started with Naruto living on ramen and only having spoiled milk in his fridge, to "Oh, no, Third Hokage totally raised him and took him out fishing, n' everything!" He couldn't even decide on when Sasuke and Naruto met because people started needing him to explain why Naruto was so fffffreakin' obsessed with a boy that he met SIX MONTHS ago, so he changed it to them knowing each other for years. This is how you can tell My Hero Academia is 60% Naruto Fix-It.
Naruto also went from being this supposed “underdog” to someone who had so much preconceived advantages
No it wasn't, why do people think this? No one liked him as a child, and as a teen he vaguely was allowed to hang out with a few kids that barely knew him. That's it.
@@nahte123456 Kishimoto trickled in a FEW tiny flashbacls into the story of him pulling pranks with Shikamaru, Kiba, and Choji. It wasn't like it was that much, he wasn't trying to gaslight us into thinking Naruto was friends all along with Shikamaru, BUT, 1) Kishimoto actually did gaslight Gaara's backstory and 2) writing that Naruto hung out with Shika, Cho, and/or Kiba even casually still contradicts the whole "children subconsciously feared/rejected me" thing. Kishimoto wrote that as the stock story, but he couldn't actually stomach writing Shikamaru treating Naruto like that, even if only in flashbacks.
@@Cityweaver because you're wrong. In the Manga they never were bothered by Naruto beyond finding him annoying and only were around because they were all avoiding school. Not one of them could have said, for instance, what Naruto's hobby was. They didn't "hang out" they happened to be around each other.
Tobi's true purpose might not have been a retcon, but his involvement in the Uchiha massacre definitely was. AND, if it wasn't, it still dramatically reduces the impact of that Itachi feat. That bothers me almost as much as White Zetsu.
I agree
Itachi wasn't strong enough to take out all the Uchiha. Just no way. Even Sasuke alluded to this in part one. There had to be another. Obito was always planned to be that other. I dont see any retcons.
@@erikurizita6702 This is a non argument. You wouldn't be saying this if it hadn't been revealed that Obito helped him.
Obito was arguably a great deal stronger than Itachi at that time, and could have gone in cold and did the entire Uchiha clan solo. It therefore completely erases the impact of the Uchiha massacre feat.
@@Firstsurugi Dude... You must be an Anime watcher. The manga hinted there was a helper until about Shippuden era. Wanna know what chapter was between Naruto and the Shippuden era? The story of Obitio and Kakashi. Most people knew then who the helper was. Because Obito never died. The only shock that hit nost people was Madara and all his supposed plans and guiding.
@@erikurizita6702 "Dude... You must be an Anime watcher."
You'd be mistaken. In any case, your argument was "he couldn't have done it alone". Which, even with Obito intervening, is only true if someone says it is. There's zero reason to suspect that he "couldn't have done it alone", and manga or otherwise, the initial implication was that he DID. Sasuke wasn't our for revenge against "those responsible", he was after 1 person.
Itachi was shown finessing multiple uchiha members, the only difficulty he could have run into would be if they all knew he was coming, or if Fugaku had chosen a death match against his son.
The Zetsu ending was probably for the best, it was the only way to redeem Madara bcus he too was a broken character so it was good closure to everyone (especially the Uchiha clan) to know that he was manipulated and corrupted, not just evil for the sake of it
LMAO no joke Zetsu was my favorite character since his first appearance based only on his look (I love carnivore plants), I was patiently waiting for his big moment, I knew he’d eventually have some sort of big reveal/fight that would make him a prominent character but him killing Madara and being the mastermind behind everything wasn’t I was expecting. It’s sad because despite this Zetsu never really became a character on his own and now everyone remembers him with bitterness.
It wasn't the zetsu retcon that ruined the series, it was already dumb by then. That was just the best solution to the real problem which was Madara's character himself. It just got progressively worse as Kishimoto gave Madara everything that made other characters unique and cool. It was like oh, madara actually survived the battle with hashirama😱 Oh, nagatos rinnegan was actually his that he awakened after the battle😳 Oh, he can summon the nine tails😒 Oh, he can do Wood Release like Hashirama🙄 Oh, Madara is going to become the ten tails jinchuriki immediately after obito already did😡 Oh, he's got a rinnesharingan in his forehead now like the sage of 6 paths 🤬
It was just lazy writing that backed Kishimoto into a corner. Madara became invincible so he had to retcon zetsu to kill him and create a new final boss that Team 7 could actually beat. But even that required stupid fan-fiction type stuff like DMS Kakashi and the SO6P Chakra nonsense. Don't get me wrong, it was all really cool at the time but narratively it was just hot garbage.
In the wrestling industry, they call this kind of thing "hotshotting" and while its really entertaining at first, you're going to burn the audience out and then it's never going to be the same again. And look at what happened. They had to ruin an AWESOME character because they made him unbeatable and, in order to continue the story, then had to nerf all of the main characters at some point after that in order to try to get back to a compelling narrative.
But in the end, there is no turning back after you hotshot a show. Half the people lost all interest because of how poor the narrative became so you try to get back to a decent narrative by nerfing the characters. But that doesn't bring back anyone because once the narrative gets dumb theres no erasing that stain. Instead, it just loses more of the audience because they don't want to see their favorite characters lose their strongest/coolest forms.
You nailed it, but most of the Naruto fanbase are uchiha or protagonist fanatics so they don't care for the truth and critical thinking
Disagree
i also disagree tbh this is such a dumb take
The zetsu twist was the stupidest thing I ever seen.
Madara was also retconned into the series.
Actually I didnt die and live for decades and then died.
Very cool.
I don't thinks so. Madara have been introduced in the lore. He fought the first Hokage. He is not a retcon characters Unlike Kaguya.
Mans over analysed a plot twist 💀
It wasn't a plot twist, it was a retcon done to set up Boruto.
He forreal overanalyzed it and nerds in the comments are angry that their narrative fiction isn't spoon-fed basic thematic structures like its a children's book lmao
It would have been better if Zetsu somehow had Madara want to bring Kaguya back by saying she was crucial to the eye of the moon plan but have that be a lie just for her to reincarnate or not tell him he would have to die and have everything not be because of zestu and just have the akastuki's creation (after Yahiko's death) be beacuse of them but thats it Pain wouldn't attack the Leaf because of zestu he did it because he wanted to
that would've been better tbh but u gota remember that kishi was pressured by the producers and was on a weekly schedule
@@girlbossperiod frr
@@girlbossperiod the reason Madara’s death makes no sense is that in no universe does black zestu EVER pull off a backstab on six paths Madara.
Black zetsu is a Walmart aizen
I’ve been following up on this again recently, and it’s gotten better and worse. How Madara was beaten, being stabbed in the back due to his own arrogance and only then questioning his beliefs when he was dying with Hashirama, is probably one of the most satisfying ways he could have been defeated, given what a tight corner Kishimoto may have written himself into. It also would have reinforced Naruto and Sasuke’s clear dichotomy, Sasuke seeing power and cutting down the old system as the key to victory and Naruto seeing team work and Madara’s reconsideration as the real lesson, and foreshadow Sasuke giving up on being the sole arbiter of revolution, because even Madara couldn’t do it and admitted that Hashirama and Naruto were ultimately stronger, making Naruto right by his and Sasuke’s own standards. Aside from being poorly written by Naruto’s world-building standards (Kishsimoto has pulled retcons before, but they were generally slow and pretty graceful all things considered), Kaguya has nothing to offer in terms of character dynamics or themes, shes’s just a powerful obstacle that serves to repeat beats we already had covered in the story. Team 7 coming together again to stop the world-ending threat literally had just happened with Madara.
I think madara had to be killed like that because if madara was the final villian, it would mean he was right.
Remember madara’s belief was that the shinobi world was irreparably broken due to everyones’ greed for power and violent tendencies. In other words their inability to compromise and think about the feelings of others. He believed the world was this way due to human nature. So his solution was to create a separate reality where everyone could mindlessly indulge.
But his method behind doing this proved that he was the problem that was in the world. And when he existed the entire world united against him and he refused to believe that perhaps a solution could be found without mindless violence.
He mindlessly indulged in the deaths and destruction of innocent people, without ever even once considering the point of view of someone else.
And remember his only pet-peeve?
It was people standing behind him. He never once trusted anybody, so zetsu killing him from behind was also thematically appropriate. But i think his death still could’ve been done way better.
It's not a retcon it's just the origin story of the Sage of sixth paths
The show should've ended with Madara and Boruto shouldn't exist :_:
Zetsu actually was my favorite Akatsuki member ever since he was first revealed and I hoped he would become an important character.
But even I admit this was too much.
Be careful what you wish for!
So its becouse of you!, you uaed dragon balls or some bs?
nigga stop lying zetsu is not ur favorite character
I'm not saying Zetsu's retcon was good, but tbh Bleach pulled off the _"Everything you did was part of my plan all along"_ too and it worked fine
Rumors had it that Zetsu even manipulated Kishimoto to bend to his will.
Zetsu’s my favorite and has been since I first start reading the story, well before the reveal. What an ignorant statement! “Hurr durr I can’t imagine anyone’s favorite character being a character I don’t like”
I always hate when stories remove all agency from characters just to service an infinitely more boring "endgame plot" usually through some shitty prophecy or evil red eyed big bad who was never ACTUALLY involved in the story prior.
Absolutely
except when its explained properly and adds more value to the series like with naruto
@@D_Owo Garbage*
@@royalfun1031 goatruto**
i feel like Naruto is rly only one of the few Animes that has had so many wasted opportunities and characters haha
GUYS GUYS! This was a naruto dream where he and sasuke defeat madara and naruto becomes a hokage.. the reality is that madara defeated them GOOD LUCK, there is no need to thank me.
the whole story was retconned as soon as the editor forced kishimoto to change the focus from hyuga to uchiha solely because sasuke was more popular than Naruto. he was forced to make him central to the story so neji and the hyuga got axed. madara was never supposed to be the main villian and itachi was never supposed to be good. kaguya was actually the original villian. she was revealed in the retrieval arc. had the story went in the original direction with the hyuga having a central focus then kaguya would have made more sense
As far as obito goes, I believe his retcon came possibly towards the time of the chunin exams. I'm not so sure Kishimoto knew if he wanted to obito as a character until after the 3rd hokage did. I could be wrong, but during the 3rds fight with orochimaru, he has a flash back looking at all of the genin teams of the past. We see Minatos team with Kakashi but "obitio" looks quite different. Not the obito we know now lol. Check out his character model if you ever go back and look at that episode again where the 3rd dies.
Imagine you're an anime only fan. After so many fillers in the war arc, you finally get to the supposed final battle against Madara... and then they pull that. I would have been pissed.
The Fanbase can defend it all they want!! At the end of the day nobody really knows the real reason why things ended the way they did because the creator won’t tell us the truth of anything…
People crying is because Zetsu humilliating Madara,not because of the story.
You don't see videos about
- Byakugan is stronger than the sharingan.
- Hiruzen is konoha's strongest hokage, known as the god of shinobi ( later stolen by hashirama)
- The rinnegan is unique and a miracle. Only the sage of six paths had a rinnegan and Nagato was hinted to be some sort of blessed child.
And so on. So where sre these videos?
Precisely, this is how most of the Naruto fanbase behaves, many are just Uchiha fanatics and they couldn't care for critical thinking unless it's a 'protagonist' type character or an uchiha
It almost feels like Kishimoto wanted to write one of those “The villain succeeds but the heroes find a way to win in the end” stories, but the Arc went on for so long that he had to keep coming up with asspulls so Madara didn’t die anti-climactically.
There are plenty of points where Kishimoto should have realized that the abilities he was giving to Madara were broken af and would lead to balancing problems later in the story (cough limbo clones cough).
I just dont get why kaguya couldn't just over take madaras body without zetsu stabbing him first and explain it away as like the infinite tsukiyomi causing it or some shit
bcus that wouldn't make much sense would it
@@D_Owo A god taking over the body of mortal ( a powerful human )
Really would’ve preferred if Otsotsukis never existed and instead the 10 tails was a natural god/incarnation of Shiva that tormented the world as the only being capable of chakra control (not including sage creatures)
So the world birthed/bestowed Hagaromo as the first human with chakra and his rinnegan- to bring peace.
You can still have the reincarnation stuff if you want by just saying since he and his sons would have the “most pure” / strongest / etc chakra.
Just pleaaaassseee remove the otsotsuki lmao
that would cheapen it tho? having no detils on the creators of the shinobi world would be bad writing
@@D_Owo pulling aliens and other shitty lore out to explain things that don't need to be explained is worse
@@5koby4 they did need to be explained tho💀 they are the creators of the shinobi world
@@D_Owo No the shinobi world didn't need to be explained
@@5koby4 well that's just a stupid take. what manga wouldn't want to add to their lore and worldbuilding? this is literally what one piece is praised so highly for.
This video is so cap. Black zetsu was never a retcon. He was foreshadowed since part 1 when he watched naruto and sasuke fighting at final valley. This channel is getting blocked so fast.
Madara canonically activated the Infinite Tsukuyomi. He won.
The Jutsu is so powerful that we cant break out even when we know this.