Comparing Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, & Protestant Unity
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
When I was trying to find my way as a new follower of Jesus but not committed to a particular Church, one of the passages of scripture that convinced me to make unity an essential criterion in my search was chapter 17 of John’s gospel when Jesus prays this beautifully intimate prayer to the Father right before he is arrested.
He prays that his followers, that is his Church, will enjoy the same kind of unity that he enjoys with his Father and that by this unity he will be glorified because it will be a witness to the world that he is truly the son of God.
And there’s a lot of wisdom in that. Imagine a Christianity in which there was one, unified Church with every member working together rather than against each other. As Jesus said, a kingdom divided cannot stand and no matter how much Christians want to believe we have a certain kind of unity, it’s obvious to anyone who isn’t shoehorning that idea into their theology that we do not.
And as a newcomer to Christianity, when I was initially taking that step, it was obvious to me that the broad definition of Christianity was one in a disorienting state of fracture and that if the claims of Christianity were true, there must be some substantial expression of unity found within it.
Now, if you have a conversation with your average believer from any of the main branches of Christianity, being Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism, you’ll hear that unity is important to them too, but you’ll get variations of how that unity is defined and expressed, so I thought we’d take a look at those and then I’ll share which one made the most sense to me and why.
Catholics and Orthodox will argue like hell but as soon as a Protestant opens their mouth we are brothers lol
Yep!
Truth
Indeed brother
I want to argue with this, but it’s too true.
Lovely
As more of a Protestant, Catholics and Orthodox are my brothers and sisters in Christ 💜
@@lefooo I am united to you through the Blood of of Lord Jesus Christ. We share the same faith in Him. Were are both part of His church.
Satan is using you to divide and conquer. He is laughing and happy because of your comment. I think with respect, you are the one who needs to wake up.
God's peace be with you my BROTHER ♥️
@@muscularcatholicism interesting. I wonder why it's removed. Thanks!
Amen 🙏
Heresy
Do Catholics and orthodox consider protestants their brothers?
As a Catholic, I agree we're all one in Christ...... even you Protestants
As a protestant myself, it’s OK to exclude some of us. There’s definitely a line that has been crossed.
@thegearhouse5337 yes, mega churches and progressive Christianity has left the true gospel as soon as they were birthed
Catholics and Orthodox Christians when they think of protestantism they think of mega churches, and that's not who we are, we condemn such churches
@@biggestbungus3096Not all mega Churches abandoned the Gospel. This is a steriotype!
😂😂😂 I love this comment
God bless you Mr.Holdsworth. Your channel has been a fountain of water to a pilgrim in the desert. JA
Aubrey... Can I trouble you for the salt?
I love both Catholics and Orthodox. We are the same. Grettings a protestant from Denmark. Wish you all the best
Unity with other religions is a Mortal sin. Pope Eugene 4th Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino” - 1441 Ex Cathedra :
The Traditional Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professors and preachers that all those who are outside the Traditional Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or Heretics and Schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Traditional Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to Salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety, and practices of the Christian Militant produce Eternal Rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in arms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Jesus Christ, unless he has preserved in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church !!!
St Pope Gregory the Great, Summo Iugiter Studio 590 to 604 :
The holy traditional Universal Catholic Church teachers that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved !!! That includes Vatican 2 Church, sspx,sspv,cmri,fssp…. For there many Heretics.
Pope Pius XI,Rerum Omnium Perturbationem, (# 4), Jan 26, 1923
… the heresies begotten by the Protestant Reformation. It is in these heresies that we discover the beginnings of that apostasy of mankind, from the one, true, traditional catholic church !!!
Pope Leo XIII, “UbI Primum” (# 14) may 5,1824 : it is impossible for the most true God who is truth itself the best the wisest provider and the rewarder of Good Men to approve all sects denominations who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory and to confer Eternal rewards on their members… by Divine faith we hold one Lord One Faith one baptism that is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Traditional catholic church.
Not the Freemason modernist, Progressive, condemned Vatican 2 Church !!!
Protests are very hostile it seems.. The abundance of the heart is what the mouth speaks..
To be honest Orthodox has been most hostile in my opinion. But were all brothers and sisters 💝
Josaphat Martin Nah thats Roman Catholics.
Shameless Papist Is that why the church split in the 10th century? What Romans and Greeks or East and west forget is that we are still humans, and when humans are involved error usually isn’t far away.
@Shao Yu Mai Wang I know of Matthew 16:19 where Christ gave Peter the authority to bind and loose things on Earth. Did I miss the verses where he said that all the other Apostles had to agree with him or he couldn't actually use that authority? Or do they just not exist
We are hostile toward a one world religion. Think about it. Whenever anything is universal it’s bad. Leads to globalism leads to the end times. Think about it
Protestant here, but I love your point that Christianity is supposed to be lived out in a family context! I've actually been able to be a part of a community of believers that are genuinely committed to loving one another in a way I've never seen in a regular "church". I am hesitant though to believe that it is the responsibility of a single person to be the spiritual patriarch. In practicality, I think the key to achieve that is personal mentorship like we saw with the early church.
Also, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on papal infallibility, seeing as you mentioned that bad popes have existed, just as we deal with bad fathers.
Well said, and it's the reason I keep returning to the Catholic church, despite recurring disappointments and inadequacies. "Lord, to whom shall I go?"
To the SSPX, of course. It is the answer to your confusion and debating. May God bless you, Jean!
Unity with other religions is a Mortal sin. Pope Eugene 4th Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino” - 1441 Ex Cathedra :
The Traditional Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professors and preachers that all those who are outside the Traditional Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or Heretics and Schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Traditional Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the church's sacraments contribute to Salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety, and practices of the Christian Militant produce Eternal Rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in arms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Jesus Christ, unless he has preserved in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church !!!
St Pope Gregory the Great, Summo Iugiter Studio 590 to 604 :
The holy traditional Universal Catholic Church teachers that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved !!! That includes Vatican 2 Church, sspx,sspv,cmri,fssp…. For there many Heretics.
Pope Pius XI,Rerum Omnium Perturbationem, (# 4), Jan 26, 1923
… the heresies begotten by the Protestant Reformation. It is in these heresies that we discover the beginnings of that apostasy of mankind, from the one, true, traditional catholic church !!!
Pope Leo XIII, “UbI Primum” (# 14) may 5,1824 : it is impossible for the most true God who is truth itself the best the wisest provider and the rewarder of Good Men to approve all sects denominations who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory and to confer Eternal rewards on their members… by Divine faith we hold one Lord One Faith one baptism that is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Traditional catholic church.
Not the Freemason modernist, Progressive, condemned Vatican 2 Church !!!
Although I am not Catholic I found this helpful in understanding the Catholic position.
The Roman Catholic position is completely false.... ua-cam.com/video/DcZ7scez5Xs/v-deo.html
@@benjamind547 not a boomer. one of the many thousands and thousands of the younger generations using the internet to find out the truth about our Christian Faith, and leaving Rome and Protestantism for Orthodoxy.
@@benjamind547 I left the Roman sect before knowing anything about Jay Dyer. Wrong again. 0-2
@@benjamind547 Were Paul De Ballester, Michale Whelton, Abbe Guettee, or Gabriel Bunge just following "Dyerdoxy" when they left Romanism for Holy Orthodoxy? You should look into that.
@@benjamind547 I pasted a link to people who have spent much time and effort investigating and researching the topics at hand, namely the differences between Orthodoxy and Romanism. I linked to them because to 'debate' these issues in the comments section of a UA-cam video is nonsensical. The people in the video expound in greater detail the obvious ways that Rome has deviated from Truth and Holy Orthodoxy. I support Jay Dyer completely in his work. He does great work, very serious and thorough work. Anyone with half a brain who has considered these issues in depth will admit that, whether you agree with him or not.
I'm a convert to Catholic and thankyou for making the faith more clear.
Interestingly enough, the claim to the bishop of Rome as head over every see was rejected within a generation by the Oriental Orthodox. The claim has also been key to the split with Eastern Orthodoxy and becomes foundational to the split within the Western Orthodox Church with the refusal to enact reforms. It really is central to the disunity of the broader institutional church than something enabling unity.
Wasn't the patriarchy of the orient an appointment of the holy father in Rome?
Wouldn't the idea of a family favor Eastern Orthodoxy who make distinct local governing units instead of one prime head for most thousands of miles away? The papal system sounds less familial to me.
There are no functioning decentralized families. A family has a father as the head
@@jmjaquinas7298 the priest in each church is the father of the family. I don't see why wee need another all powerful world wide daddy, that's Jesus' place.
@@jmjaquinas7298 Exactly
@@jmjaquinas7298 Christ is the head of the church not the Pope
@@烏梨師斂Catholics agree that Christ is the head of the church. Christ is King, the pope is a regent who rules in the absence of the King who will return.
I so enjoy your authentic and honest interpretations! God bless you and yours!
Regina Pontes he is very poorly informed
Forgeries of Rome: ua-cam.com/video/DcZ7scez5Xs/v-deo.html
@@t.l.ciottoli4319 ok protestant.
In Orthodoxy the word "catholic" means "according to the whole," that is, it concerns that which is complete, or - to put it another way - the Church, like the Eucharist, is lacking in nothing, and so each individual Church is the whole "catholic" Church in a given location. That said, an Orthodox ecclesiology of communion, which sees each local Church as the full realization of the one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church through the celebration of the liturgy and the profession of the Orthodox faith under the guidance of a bishop in Apostolic Succession, is incompatible with the late medieval Roman universalist ecclesiology promoted by the Scholastics, which divides the Church into pieces that are only later juridically united through a concept of hierarchical subservience to the bishop of Rome.
At the first sermon Peter said what needed to be done to be saved. None of the other apostles disagreed with him, they were in unity.
As a convert from Protestantism to Catholicism, I think the claim of Catholic “unity” is rather overstated. Let’s be honest, from Antinomian Rainbow clergy to Traditionalists to Sedevacantists to Uniates, the claim of Catholic unity under a single Pontiff in modernity is an illusion. Moreover, the unity confessed by Christ, the Apostles, and codified via Ecumenical Councils was centered around confessional, propositional truths.
Four months ago, I watched my Pope and other complicit bishops participate in an idolatrous, pagan ceremony, to the goddess Pachamama. Is this the type unity that Catholics should celebrate? Personally, I was scandalized.
I was born and raised as a Catholic but abandoned my religion in my teen years. I've been rediscovering faith a little by little, over the last 5 years. For these reasons you mentioned, I can't reconcile with the Catholic Church, it feels like something is off, eery. A friend seldom mentioned Orthodoxy and it's restoring my faith
Thank you! 🙏🙏 greetings from Philippines 🇵🇭
🙏🏼🇵🇭
🇵🇭🙌🙏
🇵🇭 🙏🏻✝️
Great video you are such a gift to UA-cam and a great dynamic speaker
Man, this motivated me to love our spiritual fathers and mothers in the Church even more, realizing how frail and weak they often are like the rest of us.
We pray everyday for our Pope and priests and respect them, because without the priests there’s no Holy Eucharist and other Sacraments of the church.
I give “thumb up” (on this channel) only when I learn something new.
So far I always did.
Protestant churches are like family & they do have spiritual fathers.
I just don't how the exclusivity is justified.
Everyone spread this video!! Share and share and share!!
Your description of the unity amongst Eastern Orthodox is rather superficial. Our unity is far deeper than just an agreement over the set of doctrines. I would propose to you to examine the matter properly before putting it out to the public... unless you wanted it to be false. ;o)
I mean your autocephalous church structure is highly ethnically and nationalistically based, causing a fair amount of strife and division in the Eastern Church. The Russian Orthodox Church literally broke communion with Constantinople because an official Ukrainian Church was established. Moreover, inter-church autonomy causes excessive doctrinal disputes which cannot be efficaciously resolved by a higher authority due to Orthodoxy's highly egalitarian prelature.
@@billionbux3261 That is how Mickey Mouse thinks as well, because he has no idea of inner workings of the God's Church. Fact that The Church existed during past 2000 years despite all alleged weaknesses you have noted should have told you that you are terribly wrong... but... that requires more thinking and much more homework on your side. ;o)
@The Pascha Bunny Never mind... we need to tell them the truth and leave it up to God to further develop that truth into a "worm of doubt". ;o)
@The Pascha Bunny I’m catholic of Coptic origin and I’m not shocked at all by this. I see no dichotomy here. I have an immense respect for Orthodoxy and seek to further my understanding of it. I love my Orthodox friends and they love me. I attend Divine Liturgy within the Catholic church when I can, I venerate many shared saints. I love and admire the level of reverence and spirituality I see in all rites. In good faith I also acknowledge the necessity for a visible head with a special charism, an umpire to settle doctrinal and moral disputes (abortion, IVF, contraception, divorce). We need clear teachings and unity on these very important matters. As we can see, the need for this did not end when Saint Peter died. We need it more than ever. I pray that we all be united as Christ wishes us to be. No wonder He suffered so during His agony at the sight of our pride, hardness of heart, spirit of unforgiveness and lack of charity. We all fall short. We are called to act on God’s terms. Not our will but His.
im so glad that you are speaking of unity, its why i go to the current church I go to.
Nice video Brian... I get your point about Jesus wishing we were one as the Father and He were one, analog to a family. And you´re right that family members disagree all the time, and this is why this comparison maybe is not the best one. Can you imagine Jesus disagreeing with God the Father in ANY issue? Like it was possible that inside protestantism, a Baptist would marry a Calvinist, or an Adventist would marry a Lutheran, or an Anglican would marry a YW... How would they raise their children? Baptize as a child or wait until they grow old? Saturday or Sunday? Is Jesus really GOD or just a creature? Is the soul eternal or does it die, the list goes on! This is why I agree with you about the unity in the Catholic family under a spiritual father and not only that, but under the Tradition and the Magisterium!!
I'm Chatolic but soon I want to become protestant they just fix the broken lesson of chatolic and orthodox according the Bible (about statue / icons ,about Mary and some sort of beliefs. I'm comfortable to lessen to protestant.
Well Revelations 1-3 John's letter to the 7 Churches is a look at the state of the Christian Church in the last days. Each of our denominations are doing somethings right and some wrong.
All of those SEVEN Churches were all Belong's in the CATHOLIC Church... and there have a the Same FAITH And same Beliefs...
@@wilsongalamiton1629 how were they Catholic churches? Who Was the pope? Drop the facts on us wise one
Great breakdown of unity and relationships as it relates to the Scriptures. One thing is our only spiritual Father is God.
In Matthew 29:3 we are not to call anyone on earth father, as our only Father is in Heaven. Now of course our biological fathers are an exception but I personally refuse to call an earthly head of the church, “father” because of this verse.
May Elohim (God) bless everyone in this thread! 🙏🏽
What a beautful comparison and reflection. God bless you
I've been coming to religion from atheism but I'm so torn between eastern orthodox and Catholicism that I've yet to make a comment to a church.
Both have great wisdom and traditions, but there are differences and difficulties I have with both.
Im anglo so my lineage is rooted in Catholicism. I positively love the literature. It's history, mysteries, and culture are all incredibly attractive.
But
Eastern orthodox has more emphasis on the body, fasting, and dietary restrictions. Something that seems right to me. And Its resisted the degradation of modernity and progressivism more so then Catholicism.
I also have (very) minor criticisms of both, but it seems inappropriate to voice them as an outsider. Both are significantly better then where I came from. But those issues weigh on my decision.
There is always Eastern Catholicism
Like the above comment says there are Byzantine Catholic churches. They believe all the same things as Roman Catholics, but have disciplines and liturgy that are the same as the Orthodox.
Alternatively, if you are attached to your Anglican roots, there is the Anglican Ordinariate in North America, the UK and Australia, where Roman Catholics of Anglican heritage maintain many of the Anglican customs (most notably the Prayer Book language in their liturgy).
Have you seen Brian's videos on "Why I became Catholic" and "Why I am not Eastern Orthodox"? They may provide insight from his perspective, of course.
As a Protestant I found a new respect for the ancient church teachings found in Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy Orthodoxy because of the testimonies of former atheists. Atheists seem to gravitate toward Catholicism or Orthodoxy instead of Protestantism. If they go Protestant then it's usually Lutheran or Anglican/Episcopalian. God bless you on your journey.
Eastern Orthodox here, I had a super tough time figuring out what the situation was between the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholis for a time a well. Please do yourself a huge favor a check out Jay Dyer on UA-cam, he helped me out with his videos when I was struggling to figure out what a lot of the big differences between EO and RC where; it really did help, alot.
Also, there is another Orthodox fellow on UA-cam, therealMedWhite, who made a video on how Eastern Catholicism Refutes the Papacy. I highly recommend it.
And of course I must encourage you to attend a Divine Liturgy at an Orthodox Church nearest you. The arguments are interesting and important, but experiencing the life and worship of the Church is a must; Seriously.
Pray to Christ our God about all this too. If your time is anything like mine time with all this, you're going to need the help.
Also, don't forget to look into early Church history! Very helpful!
(Disclaimer)
Oh and if you're expecting each EO person to be perfect or 'oh so pure,' we're not; We're all imperfect just like myself, yourself, or anyone else. So if you're becoming Orthodox to escape bad experiences with others in the past, you're doing it for the wrong reason. Become Orthodox if you seek the Truth, Whom is Christ. (John 14:6)
Alright, I've bothered you enough.
May God be with you and May He bless you.
"At Baptism, the new Christian is buried and raised with Christ; at the Eucharist the members of Christ’s Body the Church receive His Body in the sacrament. The Eucharist, by uniting the members of the Church to Christ, at the same time unites them to one another: ‘We, who are many, are one loaf, one body; for we all partake of the one loaf’ (1 Corinthians x, 17)."
-Bishop Timothy Ware
@@hanskung3278 how does protestants have the eucharist when they dont Practice it?
Thank you Brian-God invites us into his family-invites us to call him Father and Mary Mother and Jesus our brother
Where did it say that in the Bible though?
I am a Catholic, and generally agree with your video. I just have a question regarding an objection that will clearly come your way from a protestant:"Call no man father"
Is there a Catholic answer to that argument?
Consider 1 Corinthians 4:15
www.ncregister.com/blog/darmstrong/call-no-man-father-vs.-priests-addressed-as-father
Watch Catholic Answers or Fr. Mark Goring’s videos on it on UA-cam. Magnificat
ua-cam.com/video/DcZ7scez5Xs/v-deo.html
I still think the idea of calling a man that's not God "father" in the context as if he was like God.. is wrong? Our only father is God and calling a man a spiritual father takes the glory and power away from the one and only Father. God also has a direct relationship with us, through the holy spirit within us, not through another man?
Great video. Do you play those sickass Les Pauls in the background?
Watch your language
@@BiglariProductions Calm down
@@jamesmerone God bless you 🧡
You are correct that Orthodox see unity as a matter of correct faith. But another important point is that this unity is expressed in community with your bishop, that is, your local orthodox bishop that one mentions in the liturgy, because as St. Ignatius of Antioch said "Where the bishop is, there is the Church". This shows that the fullness of the Church is expressed, not only in the Church in its global totality, but especially in every single local Church around its bishop. This is why St. Paul can talk about "the Church in Rome", "The Church in Thessaloniki" or "The Church in Korinth". Of course it does not mean that the Church is split up, but that the fullness of the Church, that is, the fullness of Christ, is realised in every single ecclesia - assembly - in these places where the true faith is preserved and lived. Rather than seeing it as a huge global family, it is more a kind of network of families sharing the same blood, like relatives do.
One God, many expressions.
-Your Orthodox brother in Christ.
There is a depth to Eastern orthodox unity that as a former lifelong protestant I couldn't deny, when witnessing the pinnacle of the liturgical worship; the consecration and partaking of the eucharist. Someone said it better than I (I believe it was Dr. Jeannie Constantinou): "Orthodoxy is not an organization... it is an organism." And in that moment, sharing in that divine intimacy with my fellow body of believers, I realized what that statement really meant.
Just saying, as far as I'm concerned catholics and orthodox are basically the same sort of Christians: they follow doctrines from the true church established almost 2,000 years ago. PROTESTants rebelled against the leaders of this one church, but they still believe in Christ and that should mean that we should all be one United family. Good video
Unity is defined by the answers to these two questions: Who is Jesus? What is the Gospel? How those questions are answered defines the Church, and thus unity in the Faith.
Well..... Pope Francis.....
The best argument for Eastern Orthodoxy.
That's not an argument that's just pointing fingers.
@@theshamrockdolls9909 shame on you and you are incorrect.
@@theobserver3753 agreed.... satan is the great accuser.
I listened to this twice and will listen to it again. I'm going to ask friends to listen to it and give me their feedback. Thanks for your insights.
Though I do not agree with your Church's version of traditions or your representation of them I am glad that you have found the place you feel that you belong. May God guide us all into the Kingdom of Heaven.
We Orthodox believe that our unity comes from the ruling body of the bishops which are all equal in power and we treated with utmost respect as the most direct inheritors of the position of the Apostles. Trusting the control of the entire church to just one man can lead to great disaster once a less than capable ruler comes into power. Of course we have bishops of different ranks in our own church in order to make decisions making amongst them easier and we don't disagree with having a unifying figure with abilities that the others don't have (which is what the Pope originally was and what the Ecumenical Patriarch is now) but he must not have so much power that he ascends far above the power of the ruling body of his fellow bishops, they must all remain equal to some extent.
That was an amazing piece of insight - thank you
This is great. So a number of traditionalist Catholics really are thinking like the Orthodox and Protestants in talking as if accepting Catholic doctrines is the be-all end-all of Catholic identity.
And the SSPX is like a child of the family that left the house and is negotiating terms with his parents by which he might restore his family identity, and so far the parents have given them some food and water (faculties for confession and marriage) but that doesn't make them back in the house per se.
Thank you, this helped clear some things up for me.
So much truth in this, I feel you’re echoing the catechism where it states that when we are born the first thing we form a relationship with is our creator(s) ie: parents which symbolise God (our ultimate creator). Love your videos 🙏
Many falsehoods and ignorance in this. ua-cam.com/video/DcZ7scez5Xs/v-deo.html
Another logical and an excellent video. Thank you!
Isnt a kingdom divided then mean there is only one true Church, one true Bride of Christ?
I have two fathers. My dad and the Lord. I refuse to call another man father. I believe you can be catholic and still saved, but it sure is making life complicated and the scripture is the ultimate authority. The scripture alone. Through faith alone. Very well done video.
Where does Scripture tell you that?
@@levisando honestly I said this a year ago, but it isn’t through faith alone. Repentance is key. Walking with the Lord and everyday. The Bible is the ultimate authority though. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word of God. The Bible isn’t corrupted. God keeps it pure and the Bible lasts forever. The church is people. God loves the church and we are to love the church, but the church is people and people can be wrong. The Bible however can never be wrong.
@@benjaminkline2529 the Catholics wrote the bible by the way...
Also there was no bible for 400 years...
Therefore for the first 400 years of Christianity bible alone was IMPOSSIBLE.
The process culminated in 382 as the Council of Rome, which was convened under the leadership of Pope Damasus, promulgated the 73-book scriptural canon. The biblical canon was reaffirmed by the regional councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397)
Christ.wants.us to come together.and love one another despite our differences.
sorry, but the "Unity" issue for the Orthodox is not "based" on common belief or doctrine. Mr. Holdsworth needs to do some more "study" of this issue.
This council was originally accepted and fully endorsed by the papacy in Rome (whose legates were present at the behest of Pope John VIII), but was later repudiated by Rome in the 11th century, retroactively regarding the robber council of 869-870 to be ecumenical. The council of 879-880 affirmed the restoration of St. Photius the Great to his see and anathematized any who altered the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, thus condemning the Filioque.
Peter was first Bishop of Antioch. Wouldn’t the Patriarch of Antioch be the best one to be considered a successor of Peter. Wouldn’t he be the best father to lead the Church?
“We are not competitors but brothers, and this concept must guide all our mutual actions as well as those directed to the outside world. We urge Catholics and Orthodox in all countries to learn to live together in peace and love, and to be “in harmony with one another” (Rm 15:5).
Consequently, it cannot be accepted that disloyal means be used to incite believers to pass from one Church to another, denying them their religious freedom and their traditions. We are called upon to put into practice the precept of the apostle Paul: “Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another's foundation” (Rm 15: 20).”
Signed: Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill
Excellent. In light of the Hagia Sophia desecration by the coranic cult, I hope our Othodox brothers will reflect on that. As far as I am concerned Rome needs Constantinople.
The church on earth breathes with both lungs.
Actually, Jews and Greeks both referred to divinity paternally. The Old Testament contains multiple references to the Lord as Father, and the Greeks called Zeus Pater. "Jupiter" is a contraction of "Jovis Pater", which comes from "Dyeus Phater", a Proto-Indo-European god who can be found in various forms throughout the world. Additionally, Woden is called Alfather, but the chronology on that is more ambiguous.
Ur an inspiration bro !!!!!!
I like when Protestants are being presented, it’s Lutheran iconography.
So...protestant, orthodox, catholic: it doesn't matter as long as we all believe in the trinity and respect and love each other like a family when though we have disagreements on certain things?
It is very simple. Ephesians 4:5 "There is one Lord, ONE FAITH, one baptism," And Mathew 16:18 "You are Peter and on this rock I will build MY CHURCH." NOT my churches (plural), but My Church (singular). There is ONLY one TRUE Faith, one TRUE CHURCH, and that is the one Jesus founded. The others REFUSE to follow God's ONE TRUE Faith. How can they expect to be saved if they REJECT God's Church? That is why there is NO salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church.
Satan is controlling you on this subject
@@BiglariProductions Actually, no. This is what the Church has always taught!
Great content vid man!
Orthodox Christians are United in the sharing of the holy mysteries. It’s not simply a doctrinal agreement that is necessary because as St John Chrysostomos points out, to miss Holy Communion for more than two weeks, we lose our connection with the church; he even says that we’re excommunicated (in the literal sense that we miss communion). It’s all about being United in Gods divinity through deification.
I think the Orthodox perspective was partially represented in this video, but it was missing the most important aspect of our faith.
At the beginning, he said the Orthodox are united by beliefs, and I instantly said to myself, "No, we're united by the chalice."
But we're also united by veneration...of icons, both the painted wood kind and the flesh and bone kind. That is to say our deep reverent love for each other on earth or reposed and we worship the exalted King together.
This is so good. Brian, you are good.
This is an interesting video, but the problem I see in it is the Catholic Church is the one church that doesn't go into union with the other churches. For example, the Eastern Orthodox Church has stayed in union, even with squabbles over the centuries, and when they go out of communion with each other, they actively try to get back into union with each other, and most importantly succeed in doing so.
The only union the Roman Catholic church has come back into it is with Churches that submit to the RCC, rather than being first among equals, it seeks to be First.
As a protestant that has been looking into joining the Orthodox Churches, this is the thing that keeps me from being RCC. I wish the RCC well, and pray they come to understand the errors they have, as I pray I come to understand mine. God be with us all.
Very much enjoyed this video. Very good. Keep it up & God bless.
I am Eastern Orthodox in the sense that I am of the eastern rite of the Correct belief of Catholicism 😂
Hi .. Catholic of the Latin rite here.
@Heneral Antonio Luna - Oooh, español, 😊 lingua bela pero No puedo Decir algo utila
Well, I am Western Orthodox of what I am now convinced is the correct belief of Ancient Catholicism, namely that the Patriarchates are meant to be equals in a Confederated Hierarchy. I now believe Confederation is God’s ideal method for our earthly and spiritual governance, as the Judges era of Israel was clearly a Confederation of Tribes, before they demanded a king.
Confederation means having more than one head and is a powerful check against top-down corruption. It has allowed Orthodoxy to resist changing times.
The system Rome had with the Papal States and the Inquisition worked almost as well, BUT it kept all their eggs in one basket. Once the states were stolen by the new Italian republic, Rome’s ability to safeguard against a Wolf in Shepherd’s clothing, such as Bugnini, was horribly compromised.
It took 170 years, but here you are, modernists all but having taken over.
However, I thank GOD that you Uniates are there. You have a chance of taking over if you can launch a soft coup when Constantinople joins, and Bartholomew becomes a cardinal, which is inevitable now. This saddens me on one level, but the opportunity is there for him disrupting enough to take over because there are a lot of Eastern Rite Cardinals now, more than ever before. A Greek Pope would be far more reasonable in negotiating for reunification.
However, if it fails, than I think your communion will collapse like the Anglicans, I am sad to say.
If you don’t take over, than we Western Orthodox will just have to grow big enough for our own autocephalous Orthodox Pope.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 a wall of text, man. Keep it short.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262
Eloccuently expressed.
I hope many Eastern Orthodox get a chance to read it and are inspired with humility to begin promoting reunification of the One true Church founded by Christ.
May God bless your prayers and intentions.
1 Samuel 8:7
“And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.”
Finally somebody said it. You get it. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
What’s with Catholic media personalities ramping up their discussion of the Orthodox lately? Must be a lot of former Catholics going East. ☦️
That was a great explanation of what unity is in Church. Unfortunately, your characterization of the Orthodox Church as concerned only about doctrinal unity is false. The Orthodox Church would explain unity just as you did exactly, HOWEVER, instead of seeing the Pope as the head of the Church, the Orthodox Church sees Christ as the head. The reason you hear Orthodox emphasize doctrinal unity so much is because, unfortunately, the Roman Catholic Church has failed to maintain doctrinal unity.
Is doctrinal unity mandatory in the Roman Catholic Church or is it simply desirable?
Amen, brother. And to answer your last question, the Uniates prove that doctrinal unity clearly comes after Papal submission.
@@J..P.. did you mean to say that the Uniates prove that doctrinal unity clearly "does not" come after Papal submission?
@@orthodox9191 No, the Uniates have a different theology than the RC. But the Vatican doesn't care, as long as they're in communion with the Pope. Therefore, theological dogma is evidently less important than Papal submission.
@@J..P.. I agree brother, that was what I meant. The Vatican promised unity to the Uniates but the end was a disaster...in same cases they even had less unity!
I agreed in some aspects but I disagree in some area but it's alright not to become uniform but united in CHRIST. I become evangelical christian because I could not accept to pray to Mary
Why I would need to pray to Mary or.ask Mary or other saints if I can pray to JESUS CHRIST and Salvation is through only CHRIST
The family dynamic of a devotee and God isn't new to Christianity though. But great video, because of your honest sharing of the concept of unity between the apostolic churches.
@Brian Holdsworth
I believe you are mistaken about what unity means to the Orthodox. I am fairly sure that you misrepresent the position of Frederica Matthews-Green, too.
Orthodox unity is _not_ doctrinal but eucharistic. It is precisely the Eucharist that unites the people of God and without it there is nothing to talk about but organisational and corporatist spirit. Christian unity is a miracle and a mystery, a theantric reality which emerges from God, goes through His people and it ends back in God. It's not ethereal as Protestants claim but it does not reside in a single person as the Roman faithful profess (except if that person is Christ, of course).
The idea that the unity must have a physical reality impersonated in one visible head of the Church is interesting if it were true and historically verifiable. Despite the most-cited "keys of Heaven", St. Peter was not the visible head whom the unity of the nascent Church was judged by.
Claiming the contrary is mere biblical acrobatics and extrapolations: not only St. Peter was not the canon of unity, but he didn't act as a supreme leader at all. There is not a single instance in which St. Peter would tell anyone what to do or admonish or correct or super-impose or override or overrule - or any other attribute that a figure of authority must exercise in order to be rationally called as such.
And we _do_ have examples of decisions in the New Testament, even solutions to controversies - but none of them emanate centrally from St. Peter as from Pastor of the Church; they were utterly collegial and in some of them he didn't even have the last word. By all means, the Primitive Church was a conciliar Body and within that one Body the one St. Peter does not look *at all* as the first Pope of the Church. Neither him, nor his Roman successors in the centuries immediately after.
In fact, the contrary is true (and I won't go into details, it's easy to find the Orthodox position on the matter).
But beyond of what the East-West arch-divide might impose on mere mortals born 2000 years after Christ, it would be good if you could dedicate a video to the following and very concrete problem:
*If* unity truly was the visible unity in one single visible head from day one (with clear and visible and commonly acknowledged authority of one person over everyone under the Sun, an authority that everyone accepts but no one else shares), then explain *how* St. Peter could have manifested such an authority from Rome to distant ancient lands: from Spain to India, from Dacia to Libya, from Armenia to Gaul - in the conditions of ancient world, where traveling was at a rate of about 50 km/day.
Likewise, how the Early Christians manifested such unity when they could not travel back to Rome any faster? Where their bishops waiting from approval from Rome? Did they dedicate prayers to St. Pete while he was still alive in Rome? Did they express in their writings of liturgical life such reference to the Prince of the Apostles? Did they define, as every-day fact of life, consciousness of unity by knowing that they somehow are linked to St. Peter? Were they waiting for his decisions in important matters - or to arbitrage controversies? Were all these reality, under ancient conditions?
And if it's argued that such things aren't necessary to prove the Supremacy of St. Peter since day one (I mean _real_ supremacy, i.e. St. Peter to be a _real_ referential of unity and authority for _visible_ Ancient unity; not metaphors or extrapolations) then isn't the so-called "visible unity in a visible head with visible authority" just as ethereal as the unity of the Protestants, i.e. a retro-projection of medieval realities into the Apostolic past and _not_ the actual unity that Christ prayed for?
Marius Filip thanks. Orthodoxy or death!
@@t.l.ciottoli4319
I respectfully disagree. Not Orthodoxy or death.
Orthodoxy AND life because Orthodoxy _is_ life.
Orthodoxy isn't the opposite of death just as God isn't the opposite of devil.
Peace,
Marius Filip then you misunderstand the meaning of the expression
As a reformed baptist the unity that you find in those who are born again is nothing to be compare with a concept of memberships found in the catholic church you orthodox and catholics baptized unbelievers and expects to have a communion of "saints". protestants the main denominations are repented individuals with newness of live hungry to know Gods will that is the miracle of being born from above a real change by the spirit of God by the works of Jesus.
I do not hear the word "mystical" with Protestants. In fact, I've heard some mega church folks ( big hair and toupess and all) CONDEMN the word Mystical.On a personal note, I love both Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Time is suspended in the Liturgy while the presence of the Holy God comes to us in Bread and Wine and the cloud of witnesses. Blessed be the Lord---Creator of us all.
That's a good exposition. I don't agree with your identification of biological and spiritual fatherhood and motherhood. There are critical distinctions between the two too long to go into here. The fourth commandment was intended to apply to biological parents. We can draw analogies between the biological and spiritual but the two are intrinsically different.
Hey Brian, this is a little bit off topic but I recall watching a vid and in it you said something along the lines of we should set high standards for morals even if we can’t achieve them and was wondering which video that was lol
Maybe it was this one? ua-cam.com/video/jipW5YhuCrk/v-deo.html
As a Catholic, its hard to in between Protestant and Orthodox.
Protestant: Ignorant
Orthodox: Arrogant
🤣🤣🤣...jk..
I have had mostly arrogant feedback from Orthodox.
As a Catholic I'm confused by that.
Well then you’re closer to a Eucharistic ecclesiology. I recommend “His Broken Body” by Fr. Laurent Cleenewerk
I entirely agree, well said. I add nevertheless a personal feeling which negatively underligns the lack of familly-feeling in Church. When the scandals broke out, pope Benedict said something like we are destroying the Church ourselves we don't need our ennemies to do it, and the desire of Jesus that they may be one was quoted. My thought was different, i thought how can you be desillusioned, unless you have lived in a sort of position were everybody for what ever reason looks up to you. My personal feeling had always looked upon the desire of Jesus as logic and virtuous but hardly realistic in a way.
You are correct, we all need to be under one Father as a family but where I disagree with you is your solution to appoint a human as our Father. There's no reason to not go straight to God. Like you mentioned with humans, we sometimes get bad fathers but never with God the Father, through Jesus and His teachings. Our spiritual Father is God with Jesus Christ and Him alone. Our family mustn't be "of the flesh" so to speak but spiritually! He is the Truth, the Life, and the Way, following him alone we will never be led astray. God bless you all brothers and sisters in the faith!!
The sacredness of the holy mysteries within the Church of Christ allow people to experience Heaven on earth. Worship within the Church is an experience that brings us to a state of Theosis. Love, humility, charity are common among many Christian denominations. However, for spiritual healing we need to live our life within the Church that was established in the days of the apostles ...the Church of Christ and not the church of the people. Christ warned us not to change one ioata...He said this because he loves us and knew how Satan would distort His Church and in turn we, His sheep, would be harmed.
Seek and ye shall find.
Kyrie Eleison🙏
~ Brian ~ wonderful work ~ beautiful.... thank you ~
Isn't it annoying when your gaming and than someone comes in and says "Time for church!"
Mr Holdsworth's hair was 🔥🔥🔥 when he made this video
Remember that the reformers did not wish to leave the church they wanted to remain within the Church but we’re anathematized due to not conforming. I myself would be Catholic if certain beliefs were not dogmatic as my conscience would not allow me to accept. If the church was to be truly unified less would have to be dogmatic.
Can I know the title of your video background music.?
In the description...
Who start the excommunicating? Who excommunicated who exactly? Why did they do that? ..sounds like the 'fathers' were acting like babies!
One body in Christ.
On the family point I would say that we also have that in Eastern Orthodoxy, but we consider God our father, like for example we all are his children so we all call each other brothers and sisters, it doesn't matter if we are not related. We are Gods children with Jesus bonding us and all humans in the curch are helpers and shepherds(they are a bit like step dads until we unite with The Father hehe)
Brian, I want you to know I am a Protestant of the Restoration Movement. I have say it's seems everything you said in defense of Catholic unity can also be applied to Orthodox unity. They have a spiritual Father. He is just more laze-fare and not authoritarian. And it is a family. And in many of the things you said in defense of Roman Catholic unity in many ways actually applies to Orthodox Catholics better than it does Roman Catholics. With Roman Catholics you have a long list of dogmas of the Church and your spiritual father is more of a authoritarian role. While Orthodox Catholics only have the 7 Ecummenical counsels as dogmas and their spiritual father is more laze-fare. So who's more stringent on having to believe certain things? It's also interesting to me that you have set up a paper tower comparing the Orthodox Catholics and Protestants as being the same, when the Roman Catholics also say you have to believe certain things and practices to have unity. And actually have alonger list than the Orthodox Catholics. Hence Rome starting the Great disunity (if you will) with the sending a letter to the Ecummenical Partriarch of dismembership because he..(and every other patriarch of the East, middle East, Eygpt, Ethiopia, Armenia, and Georgia, Antioch and all the east never did have in their tradition that the Patriarch of Rome was the supreme Patriarch over all others. So Rome began this disunity, over it's insistance of being number 1. And no one else agreed with them. So because of Roman insistance on common beliefs on very specific things we have now Roman Cathlics and Orthodox Cathlics. But here you are saying Roman Catholics have the best unity....? Hmm something to ponder.
Protestant unity is joke just by saying the phrase.
Remember Protestants are just separated Roman Catholics....another strike against that great unity example for the Roman Cathlics. O..and the Anglicans, and the old Cathlics and ..you get the point. But ya. Roman Catholics are the example for unity with all the division they've caused who couldn 't see that great family unity..hmm something to ponder.
This has been a Protestant view and just wanting you to realize, not just your slight bias..but you ah.. glaring bias in the video. I just think honest reflections are more helpful and truthful rather than just rooting for your side you know? I think we all have been guilty of that tho.
@the Appalachian Bros. To be upfront I'm not at all the best at Church history, but I don't quite understand your message. "Protestants are just separated Roman Catholics....another strike against that great unity example for the Roman Catholics", how is that a strike against the unity of Catholics? Some people within the Catholic Church decided for themselves that it didn't suit them any longer, changed not only the order of the books in the Bible, but also which ones should be included in the Bible (much debate apparently on whether or not to leave Revelations for example) and created their own dogmas like sola scriptura. How is that a show of disunity of the Catholic Church, which in the face of all this stayed steady and maintained the teachings and dogmas it always had? The Catholic church stayed united whereas from the beginning there was a separation in Protestantism (followers of Luther and followers of Calvin). As for the Anglicans, well, again they decided to leave the Catholic Church because (in a nutshell) their king wanted to divorce his first wife for another younger girl and the Pope didn't let him (the younger girl, which he later beheaded btw). So again, the foundation and unity of the Catholic Church was not changed or compromised as people decided to leave it and do their own thing.
As for the Orthodox, and the Great Schism, it's a very long and complicated history and I don't believe that in this case there was a real desire on either part to separate. But the starting of this schism can be found in the Photian schism in which there was a starting separation between the two, because of the Byzantine Emperor's right to appoint a patriarch without the approval from the papacy. This lead to the Orthodox not accepting the papacy. Again, the Catholic Church did not change it's dogmas or position, whereas with time, the Orthodox Church did.
As for the Pope being a very /a lot /more than /authoritative figure and spiritual leader, is a matter of appreciation. Same as you may find that Catholic dogmas are extensive or not, is also a matter of appreciation. As a Catholic though, these are the pillars of our unity. We don't count how many more or less dogmas we have compared to other denominations or for that matter other religions, because what matters to us, is having the truth, and that all these truths are important, not one less important than another. And we are united, because we all believe in these truths, which are revealed by God, and cannot change, like divorce or abortion (to take more modern examples).
Perhaps some view their faith and religion as a democracy, but to me it has always been clear, through scripture, that because of our inherent sinful nature, it ought not be a democracy. Thus, the need for an authoritative fatherly figure who will guide us through our misinterpretations, and through time will not change these truths to accommodate / flatter emperors, kings or society.
The Catholic Church has always stayed in unity, but some have decided to break off from it because they wanted it to change to correspond to their beliefs, their interpretations, their desires. Are you arguing that the Catholic Church should have compromised how it understands the truth revealed by God in order to accommodate humans and their aspirations? I should hope not.
@@nerdanalog1707 Brian I think it would be good for you to read more Church history and not just from the Roman Cathlics view. However, if you read even your own Cardinals, they say, in video and in writing that it was because of the corruption of the church that the Reformation even happened. So to say that the Roman Catholics are not at fault for protestant movement is not defencable when you actually read history. It was Luther's desire to stay in the church and reform it. The Roman Catholics forced him out as in actually calling for his death. Mutual fault needs to be applied and everyone who's studied it agrees with that. Look at the Orthodox, where is their protestant movement?Such damage to the Lord's Church through it. And here we have an non expert disagreeing with his own Church and academic superiors about if the Roman Church was at fault at all.
When it comes to the great schism the long complicated history argument is also not shared by many because every ancient See was, throughout history at different points conflict with other Sees. Not just Rome and Constantinople. And to view it the way you do is convient of not dealing with the reason the letter was written and sent at all. The belief by the Roman Bishop that he was above every other Bishop. And he made it such an issue to then crush the unity of the Christ Church over it. So no one else agreed with him and he isolated himself and his church from the rest of Christianity.
I never said your authoritarian spiritual father was not a good thing or was. I was just stating the fact that the Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics have different styles as in a spiritual father. Its odd to me in your response you go into full defend the pope mode just from that obvious observation that they have different styles of leading.
I think another key difference here is that I think someone who sees a bunch of people leave his group and just blames it all on them is a sign of a lack of humility and honest reflection and needing to ask the question, was there anything I could have done better and should I have insisted on something when not one of my peers agree and it's a guarantee that there will be division.
Now with the Roman Catholics and Anglicans you have a better argument and should have just stuck to that. But even here you see the Authoritarian style of the Roman Bishop and his insistance on what he says goes being the reason the King left. Whether that is good or bad is in debate. But again it is the insistant of the bishop of Rome not being a force for unity but a force of rule that causes that to happen. Again not saying if that is good or bad just a statement of fact. And to notice that none of the other original Sees have has much division in their church as did Rome. That also should make anyone stop and ponder.
Also, your response never addressed how you straw maned the Orthodox Catholics and Protestants together when in reality everything you said in defence of Roman Catholic unity applies to both Roman and Orthodox Cathlics. That was my main point of the comment.
Also, I know it's your channel but highlighting your own replies, especially when they are not that well reasoned, doesn't come off as...well anything good. It's your channel but also something to ponder.
This is my last comment
@@theappalachianbros.8293 Uh this isn't my channel... I was responding to your comment as any person can on the YT comment section.
In no way shape or form do I try to put the blame on any group of people or even state that the Catholic Church is blameless and always innocent. What I have pointed out though is that, for every example you made, the Catholic Church has stayed consistent with it's teachings and dogmas whereas the people who left did not. To me this is a sign that the Catholic Church is consistent and united in it's beliefs.
The people who left believed in one thing for a certain amount of time and then they changed and wanted to force that change of dogma upon the Catholic Church. When they saw that this didn't work, they left and kept in part what they had believed and changed what they didn't like.
Now it takes 2 to tango, so could have the Catholic Church handled things better in all the situations you pointed out? Perhaps. But that isn't the point. The point is that those who left, decided to not work within the Church and abandoned it, either because they thought it impossible to change, for political reasons or other... And then they changed the dogmas in their "new" faith.
There is no blame there. Just pointing out the fact that those who abandoned the Church wanted change and did so, and the Catholic Church stayed consistent and united in the face of the demanded change.
And I don't believe this is a Catholic perspective. The Anglicans changed, the Protestants as well and even the Orthodox did so a little. I'm sorry if this offends you.
It's actually quite interesting, because usually the point being made against the Catholic Church is that it doesn't change.
God promised us His Church would be free from error, and this despite the sinful nature of the humanity which composes it. And as Catholics, this is dogma. That is why we don't change our dogmas (not for kings, not for emperors, not for monks) , even though some may find that there are too many of them or suddenly don't agree with them any longer. God is consistent, and His Church should as well.
In any case, have a good day.
Catholic it self means unity or universal church.. it means "one in faith"
right but his interpretation of John 17 is wrong
Orthodox Christianity is the Truth. Jesus is King. God bless.
But the fact is that we all are Christians and we all should be washed by blood of christ to enter into the kingdom of God
Much like God has 3 natures but is 1
All the three true denomination should unite to be 1.
My spiritual father is Jesus
What is the song he plays at the beginning?
"The Love of God," by Paul Jernberg. It's amazing, isn't it?
@@donm-tv8cm Heavenly.. Thank you
@@joelrodriguez8985 If you liked it, UA-cam search "The Fire of Your Love - - The Sacred Liturgy", where you can find this hymn along with many other wonderful things.
@@donm-tv8cm Definitely will do that. Thanks for the info!
I'm Byzantine Catholic 👀
@Nym GRACE it's Ruthenian based
And I’m Western Orthodox. Odd how I have to conform to the universal Orthodox standards but you are free to reject Novis Ordo and live as if you were Orthodox.
So far.
But don’t count on that liberty to last. The lavender mafia is growing sick of how the growing Uniate influence is holding them back more and more. Bugnini and his ilk tolerated you as an irrelevant token, allowing your exemption without open objections. Since, however, it is precisely BECAUSE you are allowed to live like Orthodox Christians that they are starting to grow worried about you. More and more Catholics are switching rites to take advantage of that loophole. I considered it myself for awhile. Looking deeper, i was able to let go of Vatican 1 to become Orthodox, but that is a long story. My point is that you are going to have to try to take over completely, put a Greek on Peter’s throne, or you will be forced out to become either Sedevacantist or return to Eastern Orthodoxy.
@@eldermillennial8330 I don't have a problem with the novus ordo when it's celebrated as Vatican II outlined, and I have seen plenty of very beautiful novus ordo liturgies. I've also seen some very bad ones, however those are beginning to be in the minority in my experience. Luckily the truth of the church is in her doctrines, not in how pretty her liturgies are. The humble liturgical celebrations of the 1st and 2nd century would be underwhelming to us today.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 Ascension Presents and Watchtower Projections are some good Byzantine Catholic Channels. I also like Bible Illustrated, he's Orthodox but he gives good information about eastern theology and is not anti-western or paid by the Russian government like most other orthodox channels.
@@italianoetnico.calabreseve9262 also search for the video "eastern orthodoxys fatal flaw on bishops and ecumenical councils" by the channel vaticancatholic.com to learn why eastern catholics exist and find it so important to remain unified with the Roman church. That will give you a good start :)
But Brian at a meal, the father does not preside by standing with his back to the family, as your choice of photos illustrates. In this man-made change there seems to be a real disconnect between the original Lord’s Supper of the Gospels, and the pre-Vatican ll mass liturgy......also seen in an even more radical way, in the “Divine Liturgy” celebrated by the Orthodox.
It's not just a casual meal. It's worship and we all direct or attention to the one that we worship, not to the celebrant. That's a distraction.
Brian Holdsworth
But Jesus said: “Do this in remembrance of me” . He acted for us in an immanent way, not in a transcendent way. And so His intention was to have us to commune with each other as much as with Him. As a man, the immanence of God, in the incarnate Jesus, cannot be summarily dismissed.
Whereas I wholeheartedly agree with your views, I would just like to remark that religion reflecting family relationships is nothing new to Christianity. Having systems of triads within pre-Christian paganism, as in the case of Osiris-Isis-Horus within the context of Ancient Egypt - with the Pharaoh as head of the state and incarnate son of the paternal deity - was a common phenomenon. Likewise Alexander the Great, as son of Zeus. Also, pagan Neoplatonists referred to the supreme Godhead as Father. Though, the latter have been already very close to Christianity and partially absorbed by the Church Fathers. This does not make Christianity less valid or unique in its specifics, but we should be transparent and historically accurate. Prayers in Christ.
Brian, do you do work for Protestant churches as well?
I believe he does.