Oxford Students Discuss Ukraine Russia Crisis | Oxford Union
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2024
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On the 24th of February 2022, the Russian Federation launched a large-scale invasion of Ukraine, starting the largest interstate conflict in Europe since the Second World War. This aggressive action is the latest and most extreme decision taken by President Putin towards former Soviet states; it follows the invasion of Georgia in 2008, the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, and ever-increasing interference in the politics of Belarus, Kazakhstan and other CSTO members. The conflict has developed steadily with Ukraine putting up a stout defence and holding Kyiv and other major cities against all expectations but the end is far from within sight. How will the crisis develop? It is clear that this event will come to define the next decade; the effect it has already had on the thinking of individuals across the world is more than apparent. It is also clear that this is an issue that has resonated with the Oxford Community and with our members. We thus feel that we have a duty to facilitate a discussion on the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, the build-up to it, its geopolitical significance, and what we in the United Kingdom should be doing to help.
ABOUT THE OXFORD UNION SOCIETY: The Oxford Union is the world's most prestigious debating society, with an unparalleled reputation for bringing international guests and speakers to Oxford. Since 1823, the Union has been promoting debate and discussion not just in Oxford University, but across the globe.
I feel so comforted to know that there are lots of rich, unaffected 20 year old Oxford students discussing this war with all the wisdom of my 10 year old son.
Ouch 😂👍🏻
Lol savage
Hahahahahahahahahah brilliant
You sir
😂😂😂shame for Oxford
If these students become leaders in the future the world is in danger.
Agree!😂
look at the politician that we got. they came from this school.
We don't/can't expect elite-sophisticated, open and just (and many more could be added here....) talks from Oxford everytime but once, one Cambridge graduate British MP said that "It is the responsibility of Oxbridge students to lead the UK ".... Well I was highly critical of that comment and I think I wasn't wrong....
Oxford is a disaster!!!
Politicians in the make…. kids learn best when young, living in dreamland talking a bunch of crap….
Can’t believe this is the level of Oxford students…if they are the future of the democracy world, we’re already lost.
Maybe Hull really is a great University and Oxford University is an " absolute dump" as Colonel Melchitt said in Blackadder.
They aren't. Don't worry.
@Ruben Lier MEDIOCRE. Do they know *MATLOCK, KENNAN, COHEN, KISSINGER, MEARSHEIMER, CHOMSKY, POZNER, SACHS, BAKER, ... ALL AMERICANS ??? Why dont you defend freedom and sovereignty of IRAQ, SYRIA, LIBYA, AFGHANISTAN, ... ??*
*What CAUSED the conflict ?? Watch below, 1) is a PERFECT explanation:*
1) *_"Russia-Ukraine War - Who is responsible? Explained by John J. Mearsheimer | Buddhi"_*
2) *_"8 experts predicted invasion of _**_#Ukraine_**_ by _**_#Russia_**_ due to _**_#NATO_**_ expansion !"_*
3) *_"Henry Kissinger discusses ISIS, Ukraine, and Russia"_*
@@brianbozo2447 Far from it, the hope of the UK is the London School of Economics, as witnessed by the political legacy of illustrious alumni such as the Honourable Jim Hacker, MP and PM
@Ruben Lier Arrange an unconstitutional coup, overthrow the legitimately elected president, start closing down the media, start persecuting those who disagree with the coup, raise nationalism, arrange mass killings, start persecuting anti-positioners, start a civil war, bring the population to poverty, start infringing on the rights of minorities, start banning speaking Russian, start bombing part of their population,……………………… I understood what democracy is like in the West, I understood what European values mean, I understood a lot more.
This is embarrassing that Oxford which is a highly respected University in the world can present such a one sided "debate" more of a discussion really.
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
No putinbots here thank you very much! The problem is simple: not one opposing view from these intellectuals. One guy talks about Russias incursion into Syria. That's the most ridiculous statement ever. Russia was invited by the Syrian government to help fight off the CIA backed so called insurgents! If it wasn't for Russia Syria would today be a failed state like the those countries left in the trail of the USs invasions in the last 30 years. Also nomention of the gigantic lie of WMDs in Iraq to justify that war. The entire American regime was lying through their teeth to the entire world!! I mean come on what's up with this 'debate'?
@@jamesmason8436 Oh gosh man ... some dissent is good... realism and IR Theory based discussion, an effort to understand the other side is valued ... the entitlement is too much in these talks ... no proposal of peace ... all argue how "We can Impose judgement on them" ... "we good, they bad" in a world where Yemen or Iraq or Afghanistan never happened ... mostly its good but some dissent would have made it worth Oxford.
One can never expect honesty and political correctness from Uk, US, Nato, as we are witnessing the disappearance of many countries during the last 40 years, Millions of people lost their lives and millions of people were displaced as a result of the US, UK, foreign policies, war based business model and neo-colonial mindset. I'm not supporting war not only in the case of Ukraine but in the rest of the world. The Irony is that any president who gets close to the US, UK, NATO, country indeed, would be the next Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Sudan, Republic of Congo, Cameroon, many other unmentioned nations that are not enumerated here and have been affected far mentioned actors during the last 100 years, still facing serious problem. History is the story of the oppressor and it self evident and now they are questioning Russia?
@@jamesmason8436 This is really not justified to put a biased and one sided view where the NATO expansion, USA and nato getting out of abm treaty, the violation of minsk agreement is left out and not discussed. I don't know if they put one sided view deliberately but it's clear to people with common sense outside Europe, russia and USA this situation caused by nato poking Russia again and again provoking them by trying to take Ukraine into nato. It's a national security threat to Russia and let's not forget about what USA and nato did for their national security in Iraq and Afghanistan.And if you want to talk about sovereignty of Ukraine to join nato them remember Cuba was also sovereign and what compromises were made by USA and Soviet union then which are not made right now by USA with Russia.
How to be an oxford student: learn something then act like you know everything. 💯
Something is always better than nothing.
@@sundareshvenugopal6575 everyone knows something.
Chips on your shoulders? Nah!
@@gwynnus only bothersome when you imagine ignorant elitists who will end up making decisions for a vast majority.
@@gwynnus oh the irony. A prince with a chip on his shoulder should be in the trenches
i m far more impressed by the comments here than the guest speakers in the video.
Can I get some algebraic proof for this
Yes sir. The comments are what restore my faith in humanity
I'm not surprised.
Yeah all I am seeing on screen is an assertion that there is a unified blanket approval of The Ukraine but under the surface there is no such thing.
Cause people are not stupid. When you see stupid kids, sure, you can call them stupid.
This discussions shows how Oxford and other top universities now serve as training for servants of power. If you repeat the conventional doctrine that powerful people want, you'll move upwards careerwise. The Union had much better debates a decade ago.
These students are simply providing their reaction, informed only by their elementary introduction to social sciences. The war is recent, the political conflict merely reportage observation, the broad subject is set against a wider stage of world affairs reportage consumed through a local perspect of this headline, that video, this journalist, that editoral opinion etc. I liked the first speaker: that was insightful, informative, and well observed point taking.
Hasn't Oxbridge (and the Ivy League in the USA) always been like that, finishing schools for the privately educated?
@@view1st Indeed, they're basically teaching you how to be a proper member of the elite. Obama came from that circle and became president, you can reach pretty high places.
The debates in the Union nevertheless still had intelligent and critical proposals for discussion.
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
@@jamesmason8436 The fact that you ascribe the name "bots" to views that differ from the mainstream narrative is another point to the argument. As Bush said, you're either with us or against us, and no further discussion is needed.
There is no one in earth who knows more than a 2nd-final year college student.
@ Diogenes' Lantern..I guess (if we had aspirations?) in the day,many of us thought we knew it all!
@@kristinejames9812 true. I was there once myself admittedly which is why I scoff, but find it funny at the same time!
Lol
I am surprised by lack of depth in these debates, war talk and pressuring Russia is the attitude that led to this crisis. Doubling down will only lead to WW3… Role of the West in all of this is conveniently omitted. Much more bloody and unjustified US wars did not bother these gentlemen as much it seems. Is it because “our wars” are inherently just? And then the West is surprised to see all this opposition to its actions…
“Capitalism is a system in which the central institutions of society are, in principle, under autocratic control. Thus, a corporation or an industry is, if we were to think of it in political terms, fascist, that is, it has tight control at the top and strict obedience has to be established at every level. [...] Just as I'm opposed to political fascism, I am opposed to economic fascism. I think that until the major institutions of society are under the popular control of participants and communities, it's pointless to talk about democracy.”
Noam Chomsky
Is this supposed to be a debate for pro war or anti war? Or a justification for war. This is incredibly like watching watching CNN
This is not a debate, as mentioned from the very start.
@@sweepingtime ...but it should be. This issue needs objective discussion from both sides by people who are grounded in the facts. Oxford Union is a fantastic forum for doing so, so why not do it with this current issue that the world is intensely focused on?
Exactly.
oh my gosh... these kids are so unprepared to think and reflect about the subject, i am impressed
Absolutely 🙏🙏😂
They just repeat what they hear from the media narrative. Lazy in terms of reason and thinking.
@@joejo2767 ????
In my college education, the first thing we learned was to listen to both sides of the story. As Cicero said, he who does not understand his opponent's argument doesn't understand his own. These students are arguing only their own, parochial, mainstream, media position.
They should look at the arguments on the other side -- for example, the Russians say that during German unification, the Western negotiators assured them that NATO would not move "one inch" East, as for example Soviet scholar Stephen F. Cohen says. By moving East, said Cohen, they broke their promise and created a serious military threat to Russia. Under Donald Trump, the US placed nuclear-capable missile bases in Poland and Romania.
What would the US do if the Russians placed nuclear missiles in Cuba?
@@norman_5623 the international power politics: the biggest hegemony rules.
If this is the standard and understanding of geo politics and economics of the students at Oxford, then I am assured that the future of the likes of India and China is bright. These speakers have no clue what impacts geo politics of the day. Let’s build alternate pipeline? Overnight? Let’s put boots on the ground? An average 10 grade student in India is smarter than any of these speakers. Did they even think it over? Not for immigrants, UK is done for.
It is truly disappointing😢
Very interesting. I am about to watch!
I see what you mean.
They are simply regurgitating what they have read and been taught. What can they say that hasn't been said a thousand times....
The game goes on
That is why it is called a discussion not a debate, well it is expected commoners misunderstood academics. 10th grade Indian? don't push people to resort to racism, change your mindset.
I absolutely agree, and it is so sad that the academic institutions likes of oxford and such are producing graduates with such limited knowledge...
One of the worst experiences of my life was listening to this discussion. Oxford Union has lost it
🤣 🤣 🤣
😂
I was just thinking the same thing. Incredibly ill informed.
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
You can get better students from if just walk on street and randomly pick. So oxford is disgrace
In an era of easily accessible information afforded by the internet, these students are surprisingly, if not shockingly, ill-informed. The discussion transpired was decidedly one-sided. Had no one bothered to read up on the Cuban missile crisis in the 60s? What would make anyone think that the Russians would stand Nato stationing missiles in Ukraine, should the latter become a member like other former soviet states, when the US risked WWIII with the Soviets to prevent them from planting missiles in Cuba?
Completely irrelevent
@@bluto212 what is?
@@bluto212 Ukrainians are sovereign people but their Govt is fake imposed by coup.
@@bluto212 Historical context and precedent.
@@honorhonor3352 His comment.
I went to Oxford, watched many talks, debates at the union. This was not up to scratch. Sorry. It's a shame. I can't really say that the future is in good hands now can I?
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
I'm shocked that they could get away with such an obvious pro nato... propagandized... poor excuse for a debate...at OXFORD!! It was more like a rally.
The level of 'group think' propagated there...and inculcated among the students...must have already reached a critical mass...to thus be able to vomited up this debacle...and call it a debate.
@@jamesmason8436 You repeat that comment numerous times ironically that is the problem with this discussion, there is nothing original about it, they may as well have copied and pasted the government rhetoric much like you have copied and pasted that remark.
Sure you can't. Cause it's already not in good hands.
It's cause you are unable to detect it. It would help if you had the brains to do it. After all these comments under this video? Yeah, it would help...
Not much of a discussion. Pretty one sided all of these views are. Well researched to be sure in a few cases but sophomoric and shallow in their perspectives. You can just watch mainstream Western media and get the same thing. How does badgering Russia about its evils help move the conversation in any beneficial way? Whether you agree with them or not, Russia has a view. What is the point of discourse if the end goal is to merely attack the same point from all sides.
Two Minutes Hate.
True
Spot on.
Yeah I thought this was going to be a discussion not propaganda!
i think u got lots mind problems with ur tv propaganda and tik-tok flower rainbow generation. it is mass intellect degradation, cus u lie too much. so u got only one idiots way to thinking for next idiots, mem's virus in action
This isn't a debate. It is a lesson in Selective Amnesia and Faux Outrage.
We have the wrong people selling the wrong message. A nation that is morally bankrupt should feel just a tiny bit of shame.
This is first generation born after widespread adaption of the internet. Everyone talks to people from other countries every day. Young people all around the world seem to be less hateful towards other people in general. Give them 20 years and I think they can do some good.
@@lao5610 not this bunch. I see no good coming out of them
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
@@jamesmason8436 well you should have. The fact that they have the discussion and barely even mention NATO or Svoboda is as much as you need to know to determine they’re pretty shit.
@@amogsnair10 why would they mention NATO?
It’s scare me very much how our next generation is been taught and their mindset, god help humanity
Students have always been used to lead conflicts. Unfortunately, they seem to be promulgating a WW3 and the New World Order!
No words for these students, who are living in a virtual reality……
The comments sections is way better and constructive than the video.
👏I was thinking the same, the debate was so disappointing
I thought someone will bring up NATO's expansion, I guess even the speakers are scared of peer pressure.
Nato expansion? Nobody has forced Ukraine or any country to join Nato . They are doing it willingly. Maybe you should ask Russia that what she had done that her neighbours are so petrified of her to join millitary alliance for their security. Guess you can't answer it. RT and the state owned media of Russia didn't feed you the answer.
@@pemzg well well well someone just walked out of a cave. Since you have been away, West has toppled a democratic govt in UKR, moved forward towards the East Germany as a violation of agreement between Kremlin and West.
You might enjoy watching yesterdays conversation with Ronald Paul and Blinkin for a brief summary on this issue.
@@50secs Toppled a govt?? Yeah the 80000 Ukrainian demonstators in Kyiv were sent by the west. And again you are lying here. Can you specifically state which agreement West made with Russia that west violated ?? Caveman
@@pemzg have you seen the conversation between Ronald Paul and Blinkin yet?
@@pemzg
And specifically for your denial here is an analysis from someone who definitely knows more on this issue more than you and me.
This will give you the answers of toppling democratic govt and also the agreement between bush and gorbachev.
ua-cam.com/video/b0Z5sNAr8qI/v-deo.html
I find it alarming that this is the best Oxford Union has to offer. I am a final year chemical engineering student at HKUST but I love to read international relations. The speakers have no knowledge about what war means and facts on the ground. Two speakers have called for giving more weapons to Ukraine. Complex weapons need expertise and sending weapons is already an escalation. Russia has much larger arsenal than the West can provide in a short time. India and UAE abstained due to strategic reasons. Without understanding international relations the third speaker babbled about all that. Also the accusation that China knew about the attack. There is a possibility but the reports quote American intelligence with no evidence. I can think of situations where they might have talked about but this is not definite facts. Most of all I still don’t understand what we need most is diplomacy. Diplomacy means compromise. Unless you understand that you cannot achieve international relations. The first thing for diplomacy is empathy not demonization. Putin is paranoid and he is known to be paranoid and widely reported to be that is not something new. So you need to sit and talk and understand what compromise you can come up with. He gave maximalist demands because no expects that demands will be met. You set demands so that you can negotiate not outright reject. I do think it is possible that Putin would operate under bad faith but you do your best. Even now NATO is not committed to defending Ukraine what harm would have talks done instead of outright rejecting this demand
Well said.
Yes. When I went to university in the US, even the engineering students had to study humanities. We had to learn how to make an argument based on facts and logic, get all sides, and decide which side was better supported.
Of course it was during the Vietnam war. We learned that, if you are assigned to design an ICBM to deliver a nuclear bomb, you should ask yourself whether your country should be delivering nuclear bombs in the first place.
Dumb oxford students! Short-circuited Brain Cells, but they may be developing their connections
" I do think it is possible that Putin would operate under bad faith". No shit, Sherlock!
After derailing the Russia-Europe energy relationship, Biden is witnessing that the prices for gas are skyrocketing in Europe, and Washington has no solutions to the grave situation that is developing. The spot market price for gas has zoomed to 8 times the price at which Russia had been supplying Germany. (Russia has announced that w.e.f Thursday, it has shut down the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline which is the trunk route transporting gas to German market.)
"Expert opinion is that if oil price touches $125 per barrel, US economy slides into recession."
15:45 , this guys has no clue how important it was on the part of India to abstain from voting in the UNSC. India and Russia are very key friends and members of important international orgs, such as BRICS,SCO,G20,etc. India has a very rich and extensive defense trade with Russia and most importantly Russia has stood for India on occasions when most of the other countries were against India including Ukraine( a kind of situation Russia is in rn). there are countless more reasons on the side of India to abstain from voting ,and just because the fact someone studies in a prestigious school does not mean that they can call any situation concerning without knowing the real essence behind it. India is conducting humanitarian aid missions to Ukraine and also wants this war to end as soon as possible but because there is an idea that India has followed over the years and will follow in the upcoming years called the 'non - alignment policy' India has abstained from voting in the UNSC. The ideas of students studying in the oxford is what is concerning right now on my part!
15:15 - Maybe 1 of the reason because Indian student got assaulted bg Ukrainian Army when they are fleeing to Poland. ua-cam.com/video/5GM0HruBbNY/v-deo.html
they don’t bother to do more research or study a bit, you know condemning is much easier. And also probably in their mind, India is their ally and should follow the same stance for all occasions. Thinking about India’s own interest? No, that’s out of their scope.
@@yyinlincoln true , no cap
Now Americans wants to be our best defence trade partner coz we spends more than 70B$ every year on defence, more than 40% money goes to Russia ( Even though Russia not even once agreed to share their GSLV or nuclear submarine or fighter jets technology). What's more important for us here is, our biggest threat is china and Russia don't help us fight china but America does just like they did in the 2nd indo-sino war if not for them we would have lost north Eastern territories to china. We need some more time to become self reliant till we should handle this kind of hypothetical situations carefully. This kids thinks (Maybe they just act like that) NATO is there for protect the democracy, Russia and China are threats for the democracy and world. Let them live in that darkness.
This is how low Oxford stands . The hypocrisy is shocking.
I feel happy that I didn't study at Oxford.
Everyone else probably is as well.
@Alan totally
If these are our future leaders, heaven help us
If these are your future leaders, heaven help us too
The future doesn't look promising at all. We don't practise what we preach.
Liberalism destroyed the West. We are in the ashes of civilisation.
Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya: "Are we a joke to you??"
If this is the best, Oxford is disappointing....
@@engsenglau787 infiltrated by moneylenders and stonecutters ideology...
But good for creating like minded contacts...
One of the biggest mistakes we make in life, is to be in awe of where someone studied, what career path they followed or what title they hold. Most of the time these people only perform 1 specific job role which they are mediocre at but are highly remunerated for. Outside of this 1 skillset, they are absolutely clueless regarding all other aspects of life, but because we see them living in a nice house, driving a nice car and earning a decent salary, we immediately equate this with success, intelligence and importance. What they really are, is mono-skilled, highly paid, clueless individuals who lack common sense but who have a false sense of self-importance and entitlement....
Be in awe of yourself and nobody else! Only compete with yourself and never be content unless you are the best that you can be!
My rant for today...
True. This is obvious to those who observe. However, those caught in the flame cannot see beyond the flare. 👍
@@sarahjane9956 There is an old idiom for this: "Blind people touching elephant" - - each only felt proportion. One said it's a snake (tail), one said it's a wall (body), one said it's a fan (ear). Everyone believed he got the truth then they started to quarrel furiously.
The Socialists and Diogenes will completely agree with you. I am neither one nor the other, but I also agree. ;)
That was the most well put together rant I have ever read! Spot on! I couldn't agree more!
No , Special Faeces MORE, PLEASE Lotss and lots more: your RANTING is sooo beautiful & perfect& intellegent& forecfull and meaningless; supplimely crass, disorganised and stupid... keep going please, PLEASE make anoth 10 more rants this coming week. Oh PLEEEEEEEEESE do.
I hope this video is never deleted. I want to show this to all my friends and urge them not to fall for the marketing of Oxford, Harvard , etc. I think you’re far smarter outside these so called places of learning. Everyone is out there talking about the great alumnis from this university. Someone needs to do a study on the number of war criminals these colleges have produced. And after this “debate” you’ll know why so many of them come from these “universities”.
Also, I’m so proud of you guys in the comments. If we as a public, without going to these establishment run institutions can run policy, we can save the world from these 3rd rate idiots on display
Says the person who was probably rejected by one of these unis.
I see a lot of complaing about this discussion but no constructive criticism of what the specific issue with it is. I'm about five minutes in so far and haven't detected anything problematic.
Seems PutinBots have invaded this comment section.
My take on this is that they are influencde by the wealthy who all promulgate wars to enrich their own pockets. There is clearly no knowledge of Ukraine history that led to this war.
@@corner559 That is a very childish reaction. I agree totally with him. These kids have no knowledge of what really is happening and it is EMBARASSING to say the least!
@@Lizzied1301 there is no historical justification for the invasion of Ukraine.
Its interesting to see that none of the speakers came out with arguments trying to dissect this conflict in an objective fashion. If we don't discuss this issue academically, how will the Oxford Union debates stand the test of time. Portraying Russia and Putin as evil autocracies will not help us solve the problem. We have to stay factual and be able to understand the Russian thought process to fully comprehend this new war in Europe. We must discuss why NATO expanded after 1990 when it had promised Gorbachev and Yeltsin that it will never do so? What was the thinking behind this change in strategy? Why NATO continued to place strategic weapons in Poland and around? This war is not about values and morality as we are intending to portray it. This is about power and influence. Unfortunately Ukraine is getting hammered and sacrificed in this raw game for strategic power! The free world should pressurize its leaders to talk to the russians with an open mind...
oxford university died along time ago. this is a skeleton crew of mediocre students. now, a once powerful university, is a hugbox of low achieving marxists, only there to keep the machine running.
Even Gorbachev said that there never was a promise to not expand NATO. Even if they had, Russia's argument is with NATO, not Ukraine whose people have every right to be free and associate witho they want.
in russia it is call "tik-tok generation" - that means i am doing action but donno what and why in shot circle, it is mind virus . this kids cant thinking consistently by facts, only emotions and mems in random chain of text. thay understanding only two ways - business or war.
@@tschorsch this isnt about whether promises about nato were made, its about THE EXPANSION ITSELF. nato, is just israeli foreign policy. has no business in christendom. sorry, buddy.
@@meti616 bravo
I watched the first half and could watch no longer. The thought that many here and in the audience will over the next 10 years or so be appointed to various offices of power in UK government and private sector explains why we are in such a mess. Did anyone at all mention any concerns with NATO expansion? I watched some of he second half and was even more disappointed
Yes. It is a scary thought.. Here comes WW3. Kids from rich parents who only want to take over the world and line their already rich pockets
It is very unfortunate that none of them mentioned about NATO agressive expansion. They were only blaiming russia. None of them talked about how US and NATO used ukraine to serve their purposes.
They are too proud to self-analysis.
Probably because the Russians are the ones who invaded Ukraine not only in 2022, but also in 2014
@@scarybird977 reason was same as of now
So you are saying Russia should control and have a say on who wants to join NATO or not? How does that work?
@@darksector1389 the geopolitics is not that black and white. NATO should have considered the security concerns of Russia.or
Why does america stops iran from becoming a nuclear state. Shouldn't this be the decision of IRAN.
@@manmeetkumarsingh531 love this comment . lol
to all debaters one question: how we in UK should react if China(or Russia, or Germany, or Brasil) decides to have active military base in Scotland?
military operation is on the table😁
Great and simple question! 😂 Nowadays, I am always astonished by how naive so many people are! They’re bragging about freedom but simply let their minds controlled by MSM and gov’s narratives…….
Maybe the question is better posed as - what if Scotland wanted to have foreign military bases in their country, because they felt extremely threatened by the UK?
And then, this fear was justified by a full UK invasion of Scotland?
@@yington the timeline of events suggests otherwise. Either way I don’t see why Scotland needs to be in bed with China.
@@amogsnair10
Well that’s gone right over your head then.
It's very worrying to see one of the most prestige university all thinking alike. Each one echoing what the previous speaker have said only with different words.
Until the mindset of the Europe and U.S. people changes a little. The world won't rest for a week without wars. Truthfully there's always a hand in any war around; by those super powers. All because of such mindset.
These Students should carefully watch Some More News, Adam Something and Hbomberguy.
And maybe Sir Sic.
Could it be that we are dealing with a fairly simple black and white problem, for once? Putin has wanted for decades to regain all the territory of former USSR. This is cut and dry. The youth at Oxford are thinking very well. Unfortunately, that isn't the case for some of the commentators here.
@@lisbetsoda4874 It is cut and dry for Putin but what is 'cut and dry' for U.S and NATO allies?
See, that's what's missing in the discourse. For this issue to be solved and resolved both or maybe all parties needs to acknowledge their wrong deeds. Only than will they compromise. But these are the views from the outsiders like myself and few others.
A fairly shallow debate, unfortunately. A sense and understanding of Ukrainian and Russian history, including the forced famine of the 1930's and the role of Ukrainians in the holocaust of the 1940's would help. The semi-mystical view that Slavs have of the Byzantines and the concept of Moscow being the the third Rome is so important to understanding the psyche of the participants.
and they are ur future leaders, this kids
Ye they just do t know .. no one teaches them and they do t speak Russian
@@vladlast5507 that u say ll actually joke in ww3, welcome
These kids sound more like Parliamentarians echoing all known rhetoric on the 'morals' associated with 'friendship'. None reflected that UK and US have been 'quiet' about their role in the Budapest Memorandum and Security Assurances made at the OSCE Conference on 5 Dec 1994 leading to the disarmament of nuclear weapons in return for the protection of Ukraine's sovereignty. 🤷🏻♂️ I don't think these students are sufficiently grounded on the 'facts' to argue new premises to stop Russia, repel the aggressor and restore Ukraine's sovereignty.
dont forget the ukrainians genocide against wolhynia when they killed women and children with farm tools.
Lord help us. I think these people live in a bubble. No wars for 75 wars he said. Lol. Tell that to Palestine, Syria, Libya and Iraq. They’d make great politicians. 😂
They sourced all here information from the biased media and didn't say anything I haven't heard a thousand times already
Yugoslavia dont forget too
I would highly recommend people to go and watch Professor John Measheimer who predicted this war 7 years ago.
The costs of a bigger war with more participating countries, more weapons, more deaths , more destruction from both sides are completely not taken into account here.
There are always two sides of a story. We need to listen to both and find a way to compromise.
It's so sad that this happens and what scare me is what comes next - countries are ramping up with Nuclear weapons. It will come to a time that one conflict, one button away, a fight for democracy and we will witness the most devastating tragedy in human history.
It was an American trap to bring Putin thru sanction and the Rest of the Russian Federation in turmoil at the expense of Ukraine
Exactly!
It looks like America is promulgating WW3. It has been coming on in Ukraine since 2014 with the overthrow of the pro Russian government and supporting the Neo Nazis. Putting them into power was insidious.
14:40 - "We must make Russia suffer, not only till the emergency ends, but for a long time." That's pretty hard on the Russian people, who are, on average, quite poor compared with us. The really wealthy people, the oligarchs, and the 'upper crust' of Russian society, won't suffer all that much. The upper crust never does. If we make Russia suffer, we will be kicking the people who have fallen down. It won't make them vote a better person into power - they can't. Nobody can convince me that Putin has been in power for two presidential terms, followed by a prime misterial term, followed by presidential time again - all due to having won the vote each time by a high percentage of votes.
why convince you? you think within the limits that are available to you no more
everyone who tried to make us suffer became food for worms
the same will happen to you
@@mehanoid8182 До чего же они тупые ! ))) И эти люди еще учат нас ковыряться в носу! ))
u r not Russian citizenship to decide who is legitime president in this country, Putin or not.
Also u haven't any permission to interfere in president elections.
If u have any dream about "kicking someone fallen down", keep them inside urself mind
@@meti616 You seem like the kind of person who sees somebody mistreating an animal, but does not say anything about it, because he doesn't own the animal.
There are several illogicalities in your comment.
1. I'm not interfering in the Russian elections - not because I don't have permission, but because I don't have that sort of influence.
2. Putin isn't American, but because he has international influence, he gave himself permission to interfere in the American election. He doesn't have that sort of influence any more, now that his buddy Donald is no longer president.
3. I don't have any "dream of kicking someone fallen down". I don't blame you for not speaking perfect English - is is clearly not your mother-tongue, but if you should realise your limitations, and be circumspect about replying to posts that you have not understood - and it is very obvious to anybody who does understand English that you did not understand my post. I don't respond to posts in Russian. I said "If we make Russia suffer, we will be kicking the people who have fallen down." In other words, I sympathise with the common Russian people, who will inevitably suffer more than the wealthier people as a result of the international sanctions. When I said "The upper crust never does (suffer)", that refers to all societies, anywhere in the world. If there are sanctions, or inflation, or difficult financial circumstances, the wealthy always know how to protect themselves. It's always the poor people who suffer most. For example, when a company fails, the employees are left without a job, and without income - but the boss always leaves with his pockets full.
4. Anything I say is only opinion. It doesn't make any difference to anything, and it most certainly won't influence whether Putin is president or not - so you can relax!
@@DownhillAllTheWay you know, what different between yours and russian mental?
when u say something - u can easy say, ow, that is nothing, it is "mine own opinion" only..
but in Russia we say:
if u call urself mushroom - welcome to bucket.
that means if u tell something - u are able to do something, or u have to do - it is a principe, life law. Ur verbs = ur deal. dont speak if u dont able to do.
U r what u talk, coz ur talk means ur action.
if someone talk idle and dont do that he talk - we call him ringingless = thash man that doesnt inspire confidence
u can play that u didnt say that or this, but if i (and other rus people) understand u this way, u need to think, that u did something wrong.
and also i see that u dont understand ur mistake, so i tried to explained another way:
i didnt intervene in US elections, i dont know anyone russian who did this, and i m dont thinking that Putin did this or he is interesting with this. Also i can say that im dont care about kind ur democracy until it is not inside my country. But u did, u came to my home and told me what is democracy and what is not. in rus we sad this:
dont come with ur rules into alien church
Isn't this a very uninformed debate, and very eurocentric? I am not judging the merit of the argument just the factual accuracy of that one guy who talked about how India doesn't have a dependency on Russia. That's so inaccurate. All of our arms and planes and artillery comes from Russia. Our economy is also heavily dependent on Russia. Also, Ukraine has consistently voted against India in UNSC during India's armed conflicts. There was also no moral uproar when very recently China attacked India's borders in the northeast...so isn't this a little hypocritical. India did not come out in favor of Russia but abstained...which is understandable because you have to be careful making Russia an enemy when US and Europe has consistently failed to show up as an allie. You may agree with this or not, but at least research a little more before calling it "apathy".
This is not even a debate. With some lock, a "monologate" 🤣
Yeah !!!you are absolutely right ...
Thank you for putting up this comment
@@adrianabraham8241 I think there might be voting afterwards. It's young people gaining skills in presentation. A training exercise if you will. I just enjoyed it for what it was.
@@kevinu.k.7042 Then, do not call it "debate". On the other hand, they have a lot of skills to gain regarding taking into consideration different sources and putting opposed arguments face to face. Only such an exercise can get us closer to truth. Having great presentation skills only can be useless if not dangerous.
Since the Oxford Union has demonstrated (repeatedly, I might add) an inability or unwillingness to provide a forum for proper discourse on a complex, epochal topic, here’s my contribution in the hopes it will provide at least a modicum of perspective: an important, but oft overlooked dimension in understanding the roots of Russia’s paranoia over the Ukraine is that 5 times over the past 4 centuries an invading army from the West has tried to dissolve the Russians, using the North European Plain (of which the Ukraine forms the single largest area) as a superhighway into Russia’s heartland, where over 80% of Russia’s population resides. The NEP is the largest unobstructed plain in the world and the only way to defend it under modern military doctrine is through the use of tanks. It’s the reason why Russia has one-fifth of the world’s armour deployed along their border facing Westward, more tanks than the US, China, Germany and France combined. What is so hard to understand? The US was willing to risk nuclear Armageddon over an island off its Southern coast barely larger than Maine. If the Chinese entered into a military and economic cooperation pact with a deeply anti-American Mexico government and started equipping and training Mexican soldiers while setting up forward facing military equipment along the Rio Grande, is there any doubt the US would raze Mexico City to the ground and turn it into a parking lot before allowing that to continue. There are no clean hands in geopolitics. If you want tales of good vs evil, then go binge on Star Wars. But the real world isn’t Disneyland, there’s only the cold calculus of balance of power geopolitics and the prospect of war. Putin is a tyrannical dictator, no doubt, but it’s perfectly legitimate for Russia to view NATO expansion on its doorstep as an existential threat. They literally have 4 centuries worth of pretty reliable data on that. Whether NATO actually means it when it says “we come in peace” is irrelevant if the Russians see a mortal threat inching closer.
It's a war Russia is guaranteed to lose.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 really well framed.
Everyone only seems to be looking at the macro, without taking the history & realpolitik into account..
get lost with you propaganda - for last 300 years russian imperialist conquered nation after nation Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Estonia, Ukraine, Finland, again Ukraine, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Hungary, Chechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Georgia, Chechenya and so on and on. People died sent by Russians to Siberia. Putin planed war for years because he wants back all the lands which were in possesion of the empire. Anything else is just a 'active measurements" propaganda.
Putin is a devil, the same like Stalin.
@@questionmark7045 Yes and it was with with consent of USA, UK France after the war.
“Good people have to suffer so we can build a better future.” -2nd dude.
Never give him power.
Generally disheartened at the lack of intellectual rigor from Oxford students. I imagined a higher bar.
He's right.
If you'd followed the evolution of education the last 10 years, you would not be surprised at all.
lol one cannot convince half of American to wear masks properly, thus 'good people' won't suffer themselves to have paper on their faces; and you think that you grasp that speaker's point about moral progress?
The irony being there are bright, high IQ little mass murdering monsters in waiting at academic institutions in Russia and China too saying the same thing about “good people” having to suffer to “build a better future”. Let’s see that second guy say the same thing if his own life happens to be one of those being sacrificed so others can build a better future. Fkn kids.
The dude is the future's Napoleon.
They are so cute in their idealism. So beautifully detached from reality while living comfortable lives hundreds of miles away from the actual crisis.
No word on the actual cold analysis of the situation...
"Dear Oxford Union Students. After viewing this 'debate/discussion/response', I've decided to take the dog and move back to
Kansas and live with Gramma." ~ Dorothy
Question for the Union: If China invaded Taiwan, would the Colleges continue to accept lucrative investment from China and lucrative Chinese students?
I’d hope that applicants to the university would never be discriminated against because of nationality. If China invaded Taiwan that doesn’t mean that Chinese students couldn’t be desperately unhappy in their home country and use the chance to study abroad as an opportunity to escape.
@@i-am-batman8538 "that Chinese students couldn’t be desperately unhappy in their home country and use the chance to study abroad as an opportunity to escape."
Is that why they are studying abroad?
Duh. Universities are the biggest participants in the thousand talents program 🤝🇨🇳✔️✔️✔️✔️
@@HansKeesom I don't know where you get that from, but my point is that it's a dangerous precedent to use essentially race as a negative factor in applications as it has no baring on whether an individual student supports the regime in which they were born into. Some may want to study abroad to get away sure, not all but it's a valid point.
Question for Michael Richards: If the US invaded Iraq, should colleges continue to accept lucrative investment and students from the US?
Correction 0:15: the largest conflict in Europe since Yugoslavian conflict. Not WW2. I assume.
Yugoslavian conflict is more of an internal conflict or ethnic conflict. Whereas the ongoing Ukraine-Russia war is between two sovereign states.
Great YT video on The Death of Yugoslavia is on KEITH WOODS channel.
@@kch2810 BS, NATO bombing yugoslavia was internal?
How dumb are you?
Also had the war in Chechnya as well as the war in Georgia which as far as I know is in Europe.
The invasion of Cyprus.
The troubles in Ireland with the IRA, however maybe Britain isn't a part of Europe.
The conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, which may also be considered borderline.
I know those are nowhere near ww2 numbers but this invasion has quite a ways to go before it can be comparable to ww2.
@@kch2810 You're quite naive if you think that.
After derailing the Russia-Europe energy relationship, Biden is witnessing that the prices for gas are skyrocketing in Europe, and Washington has no solutions to the grave situation that is developing. The spot market price for gas has zoomed to 8 times the price at which Russia had been supplying Germany. (Russia has announced that w.e.f Thursday, it has shut down the Yamal-Europe gas pipeline which is the trunk route transporting gas to German market.) "Expert opinion is that if oil price touches $125 per barrel, US economy slides into recession."
40% of eu fertilizers come from Russia or Belarus...car industry depent on metals as palladium,iron etc. all of it is from Russia...17% of global grain..Russia 12% from Ukraine...eu will pay highest cost of it..
The sanctions pressure from the West will be felt by Russian cats and their owners. Now, not a single cat, the owner of which lives in our country, from March 1 to May 31 will not be allowed to the exhibition outside the Russian Federation. Such sanctions against Russian animals The International Cat Federation (FIFE) imposed sanctions due to a special military operation in Ukraine. . :"(
So few likes for a great wise opinion. That's a shame.
US intentionally derailed the German-Russia alliance over natural gas / oil. They always feared the possibility of a strong Alliance between Russian resources and German / EU industry and technology. Now they derailed this, Europe suffers the cost while the US has the least impact by these sanctions, and I'm afraid US never intended to help EU in this situation.
Everyone repeating the same lines, that Russia will crumble under the power of sanctions, I seriously doubt that. Ordinary Russian people will not suffer because they cannot buy iPhone, Gucci, Zara, IKEA... But ordinary Europeans will suffer when they will meet food prices increase over 50%, gas prices will surge like never before. Electricity bills, and likely every goods and services will have a price increase, that will demolish ordinary European households to the ground. And for what? Because we so much want to welcome Ukraine in our ranks?
Russia warned EU several times that there is a red line. What was the expectation? Russia will do nothing and sees through the west expansion towards there borders. They were clear that Ukraine closing to the EU is an existential threat to them. But we had to push forward.
Propaganda says, Russia is in bankruptcy (semi - bankrupt). Normally that is a great problem, when you have a great volume of international trade. But the west quit from trading with Russia, as US strike with their new weapon: CANCEL-culture.:D Now even if Russia would stop, and retreat, the international trade isn't going to recover any time soon ( in 5-10yr) So, than why Russia should bother to pay out their enemies?
And let's assume that Russia will crack under the sanctions? What are you going to do with the 140 million population of a devastated economy of Russia? Will you help them as you willing to help the Ukrainians? And how long will you willing to help them, when your own people is also going to suffer due to the very sanction they used to crack Russia?
What alternatives Russia has got from the west? Do they have any alternative way out of this war that worth over the invasion. West said, stop, retreat, and than we will might talk about your possibilities. That is not an alternative, I bet the Russians rather shoot Ukraine into oblivion before they will listen to the US alternative proposition.
Peace with you my friend. I wish you good health and strength.
@@Tristan87688 In fact of the matter! I don't give a shit about an iphone that I never liked. And the fact that, by and large, the United States to shit on Europe is a fact. You choose the government shit.
Europe made a rash decision to carry out sanctions which will severely harm there own economies
When I listen to these 'talks' because it's not a debate, I feel there is a sense of urgency to instroduce a compulsory course on 'thinking lessons' and 'common sense' philosophy to liberate the young scholars to be able to think independently. We must start embracing 'the why' in our brainstorming processes....."cogito ergo sum"
I dont think they are being taught or aloud to think critically and outside of the box. They are just regurgitaing what they have learnt and believing it. Its the plan to accomplish the NEW WORLD ORDER.
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
Speaker 1: Ukraine isn't Russian.
Speaker 2 & 3: Europe must fight more actively for its values.
Speaker 4: We must exclude Russia from the international community.
Speaker 5: Must must impose sanctions and seek energy independence from Russia.
Speaker 6: We should have committed harder to the inclusion of Ukraine into EU/NATO since 2008.
Embarrassing
Thanks
A student from the UK arguing that Ukraine should join the EU which they themselves have left not very long ago. That shows how some UK people just want to use the EU and Ukraine.
48% voted to stay and that number is increasingly higher when looking at university students and young people in general.
Was drawn to the title. Looking forward to some thoughtful engaging discourse especially from Oxford. To say I am disappointed is a gross understatement. If these are your potential leaders, I shudder for Europe and unfortunately for the whole of humankind.
Just Europe, or the UK for that matter. The rest of humankind are doing just fine without them.
There's much better stock in other universities. People just focus on these elites ones when most of the students are only book smart and pretty dumb in real life situations.
I don’t see any different between Oxford Union and BBC or CNN!!!!!!
What India is doing is absolutely right. Like all other nation we value our national interest the most.
Okay when Pakistan nukes India then by your logic world shouldn't cover it as news.
You are lucky, the bias is nauseating.
If this is an example of what an Oxford education can churn out as the future leaders of the world, I feel sorry for them and the future of the world !!! All of them seem to have missed the key issues of the matter of recent history. What's their understanding of the Minsk Agteements and why they were not implemented? What are the implications of NATO's eastward expansion onto Russia's doorsteps contrary to promises and assurances given to Russia? Who supported, fomented , and instigated the overthrow of a democratically elected government who happens to be more pro Russian then the US/west? Does Russia have the right to defend their national interests from an existential threat posed by NATO's /US breaking all their promises and agreements? And a host of other more pertinent questions that need to be addressed.
All told, this is a terribly disappointing and shallow discussion that offers more of a worry than a comfort to see what's coming ahead in the not too distant future.
All
You made a mess of things which is too bad because you had a point but it starts with Versailles in 1919. Both sides must live with it. After 1945 we did better but irreconcilable differences split the world apart until the second world collapsed leaving only democratic states and market systems. One might call it the rise of the West. If there are two camps for authoritarian and democratic states how do they get along with one another when they share power so differently? What one state calls patronage another may view as corruption. How do you reconcile the viewpoints?
I truly agree with you. After watching the whole speech, the students are so narrowed to link the world. They have never deeply studied the history and the current status of Russia and China. West is dead! So sad!
The second Minsk agreement can't be accepted by Ukraine because it gives Donbass veto powers on whether, for example, it can join the EU or not. In retrospect, this war was inevitable. I can't see what the west could've done to prevent it. It wouldn't have happened if Russia had a different type of leadership, with a growth-focused and pragmatic worldview. But with a leadership that's focused on the lost Russian empire and obsessed with the concept of spheres of influence, it was inevitable to get here. Russia can't accept Crimea being in the EU, while Ukraine can't accept a future outside of the EU. A partitioning will be required in order for this war to end. The only question is where the line will be drawn. Will Odessa, Dnipro and Kharkiv remain Ukrainian? I for one hope so. Donbass and Crimea will surely become Russian at the end of this affair.
Bravo Putin! Saved Russia and its territory from NATO expansion. Now Europe will take a sip of the crisis. For all the meanness and your life will become poorer. And Russia will begin to create its own economy and grow higher. And that is injustice. Why Switzerland, England, the Netherlands live richer than Russia? Let's fix the injustice!
How can you discuss the events taking about if ignoring the background. There is no need to go to the times of the Slavic tribes. Just delve into the last 20 years. Find John Mearsheimer lectures and maybe at least some of you will open your eyes to the essence of what is happening. Break away from the median of state channels and look at the situation from all sides, and not as your social networks, the government and other interested people show you. Also to study the "special operation" in Yugoslavia in 1998. Who, how and for what reasons did it.
They dont seem to know a lot.. They have never hear of Alexander Dugin - Russian geo political scientist either. To get an understanding of the war you have to study both sides. They seem to get their information from America.
God bless Ukraine, I am from MONTREAL CANADA
Oxford students will spend all Ukrainian lives to defend democracy. What heroes.
This video proves that universities these days are not designed to teach young people how to think and refelct objectively anymore, but not to call anything into question which is disseminated by the mainstream media...
This over privileged kid are living in an alternative universe… “we have not seen war for over 30 years!” They not ideas about what going on in real world yet debating about something they totally ignorant of. The statement clearly shows that, I can’t blame them, they live in a safe bubble.
True.. send them into conflict zones and they would run a mile! All they do is sound intelligent with very little knowledge. I was shocked to see this level of thinking from a world reknowned University. Brainless, to say the least
India has huge trade engagement with Russia as well as defence deals that is why India abstained and the history of Russia backing india in every time from 1965
Oxford debate becomes like a fancy dress showcasing events.
😂😂😂
I always enjoyed the Oxford union debates.
Like others was drawn to the topic expecting an unbiased intellectual discussion , with some insight into the minds of the young adults .
Instead we got a rehash of what is playing out in the mainstream media, so much for free thought and genuinely dissecting the issues at hands
The speakers were unified in their ignorance of so many other conflict areas and some of the double standards at play here
As much as we should be critical of Russia wanting to expand westwards , we should want to question why the west want to expand eastwards
Absolutely true
Sello C: You’re only looking at this problem from two viewpoints, whilst omitting the third. Russia going West and the West going East. You fail to take into account that Eastern Europe has made the free decision, in the main, to see their future westwards. Many populations of former Soviet states have first and second hand remembrance of that time and do not wish a repeat. Russia can’t attract these sovereign nations based on what it has to offer so, resorts to force to impose its will. Russia (Putin), behaves like a scorned lover. Putin can’t come to terms with rejection but, rejected he is. The free world needs to decide best how to deal with this vain despot. Something that has already been put off for far too long. The Xe’s, Putin’s and Kim’s of this world etc., etc., have no place on our planet. Ukraine has many internal problems. A history of rampant corruption being but just one. Freedom of choice is an important first step. With good will, the rest will hopefully follow. The “democratic political system” of governance has many faults. Going to war with each other does not tend to be one of them.
You are correct , the West is seemingly offering more.
Im not against freedom of expression, in fact it’s what we fought for.
Im saying that one has to view this conflict in the context it bears.
The US and Europe in my view hyped Ukraine up thinking that they will do everything to support them. It made Ukraine perhaps too daring.
NATO is a defensive alliance . Was it really that necessary for this to be sought at all costs knowing the position that Russia was taking and that NATO was not gonna take an offensive position.
All this destruction and displacement of innocent people , was it really worth it
Was there not an option for Ukraine just to exist without seeking to be part of a historically anti defensive alliance as would be viewed by Russia .
Ukraine couid have all the relations it wanted with Europe from trade and everything else but just not NATO membership.
There needed to be cooler heads and better leadership so as not have ramped up the anti giving Ukraine the notion that the west and Europe were gonna do everything possible
Of course they have reacted with sanctions but in reality that did not save Ukraine but rather is serving as the catalyst now.
It has to be also said though that perhaps Russia Wouid have invaded Ukraine anyhow even if they stayed clear of NATO membership but in my view it was better to chance that then to witness what we are now seeing
The West isn’t expanding. Eastern European countries see that aligning with the west is the way to go to secure future generations.
@@genoric4094
That may be so.
The notion that everything Eurocentric is better has its roots in many a conflict.
Be that as it may , in this particular case there is a historical perspective that couid not have been ignored and what troubles me really is that there was no compromise on Ukraines position with the end result been what we are now witnessing
A country and a people destroyed just about
The rhetoric from the west and Europe emboldened Ukraine to have adopted such a rigid stance.
Couid it he said that the west built them up thinking they would cover their backs so to speak , they were shockingly disappointed
Was it not an option to remain neutral and still have bilateral ties with Europe and its neighbours but just not seek affiliation to a defensive alliance like NATO ?
What benefit to future generations comes about exclusively with NATO membership?
The human suffering is tragic.
For all the comments I have read, I hope that someone from Oxford is taking note, I very much doubt it though.
I would of been embarrassed to post this one sided poorly thought out debate.
The west is on a very slippery slope downward, helped by the universities…..
Putin bad, west good ….. did the MSM wright their debates???
If you force a timid dog to a corner where it can no longer escape it would snarl and fight back. That’s what NATO did to Russia. That’s the debate I was hoping to listen to here, but it appears these student do their research on western media.
So many hypocrites people talk. my county been colonized for 350 years never crossed in my minds I want destroyed that country and make them suffering. Yeah, it is painfully our country started from scratch while we build one stable country from our blood, tears and sacrificed our People. Long live Rusia ur country help our independence. Don’t let these hypocritical people destroy u.👏🏻
Hahaha Uraaa Merdeka
What is the meaning of democracy? What is the liberty?
I think different people have different cognition. You need to have more living experience in different countries, try to understand the people's ideas who living there.
Democracy is a carrot and a stick
Maybe you should debate topics like why NATO keep expanding east while they promised not doing that or topics like why democracy is so easily manipulated
Go home russian bot.
@@deepcoder1845 sorry i am not from ruassia, and i oppose any action of invasion, Ukriane and Russia crisis not just happened this year, maybe they should debate deeper to the core, like your name , be a deep debater
NATO never promised not to expand eastward.
@@davidgullberg2145 The promise by James Baker (US Secretary of State) to Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9 1990: “NATO will not move one inch further east”
@@davidgullberg2145 right there is no such things as promise in politics
It's appalling. A University? Debate!?
It's almost as if they all just logged in to BBC bytesize and Guardian to learn what their views should be.
I cannot believe this is a discussion at Oxford Union. The intellectual depth is simply pathetic. This level of insight is something I would expect in a nightly local news broadcast. If these young people are our future - we are all doomed.
Gen Z.....Marvel films, video games, Cardi B, skin colour and identity politics is their speciality. The generation of arrested development. Universities trigger warn them about reading Jane Eyre. What do you expect?
some may join the world economic forum to fix the world......!!! apparently we will own nothing and be happy!!!!! a little bit like communism and the chinese social credit system
it was tabloid tier newspaper discussion lol. might as well have been a column in the sun newspaper
We are in the ashes of civilisation.
@@evolassunglasses4673 we are men among the ruins
A lot of beautiful rhetoric but not much of the much boasted critical thinking that requires the exposition of opposing perspectives and the refutation of one. I could obtain similar opinions in the tabloids without the florid language.
On November 10th 2021, the United States and Ukraine signed the Charter on Strategic Partnership. On November 11th the United States announced a build up in Russian forces ultimately leading to the current siege.
Clause 5 of this aforementioned document stated, "Declare our determination to deepen our strategic partnership by expanding bilateral cooperation in political, security, defence, development, economic, energy, scientific, educational, cultural, and humanitarian spheres."
In other sections this document stated, "the United States supports Ukraine’s right to decide its own future foreign policy course free from outside interference, including with respect to Ukraine’s aspirations to join NATO."
Read into this as you please but it was clear it was read by the Kremlin as Ukraine tacitly creating an alliance with the United States specifically and explicitly against Russia.
Since Kelensky's election his government has undertaken the following:
- On 12 June 2020, Ukraine joined NATO's enhanced opportunity partner interoperability program.
- On 14 September 2020, Ukrainian President Zelensky approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, "which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO."
- On December 1, 2020, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Andrii Taran stated that Ukraine clearly outlines its ambitions to obtain the NATO Membership Action Plan and hopes a decision in 2021.
- On February 9, 2021, the Prime Minister of Ukraine, Denys Shmyhal, stated that he hoped that Ukraine would be able to receive an action plan for NATO membership at the same time as Georgia.
- On April 7, 2021, Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis told a press conference that Lithuania intends to offer its NATO allies to provide Ukraine with a Membership Action Plan (MAP)
- On April 10, 2021, the Minister of Defense of Ukraine Andrii Taran stated that the top priority of the Ukrainian political leadership is to obtain the Action Plan for NATO Membership (MAP) in 2021.
- In May 2021, Democrat Senator Chris Murphy said in Kyiv following a meeting with Zelensky that granting Ukraine a MAP would be the next logical step toward NATO membership.
- At the June 2021 Brussels Summit, NATO leaders reiterated the decision that Ukraine would become a member of the Alliance with the Membership Action Plan (MAP)
- On 28 June 2021, Ukraine and NATO forces launched joint naval drills in the Black Sea codenamed Sea Breeze 2021.
- On January 11, 2022, a group of Republican congressmen announced that they intended to introduce a bill declaring Ukraine a NATO-plus country.
- On January 14, 2022, Andrii Yermak, Chairman of the Office of the President of Ukraine, said that the Ukrainian authorities hope to hear specific conditions for joining the North Atlantic Alliance.
And the British media tells us today that there was no chance of Ukraine joining NATO.
insightful comment, thank you for the information and for putting the issue in context.
While this information is thorough, it seems to be preamble without any subsequent point or argument. It's not exactly a secret that a primary factor in this invasion was Ukraine's involvement with NATO. But what is the point you're making? That therefore such an invasion was justified and could somehow be construed as 'self-defense', because a sovereign state was intending to join a non-aligned alliance?
@@mnpa6154 The Russians are accused of conducting an unprovoked war and their president portrayed as a madman in the media. It is also asserted in the media that Russian claims of prospective NATO membership for Ukraine as a reason, was unjustified as Ukraine had 'no prospect of membership'.
This information contradicts that narrative establishes that at the highest levels of government both Ukraine and NATO countries were quite advanced in their talks on membership with the crystallizing moment for membership in a time period of months.
I am not writing an essay or attempting to debate in depth all the issues around the Russia-Ukraine crisis, what I'm attempting to do is point out salient facts that are not addressed by the Oxford Union debate or missed by the responses I read from the commentariat below.
@@mnpa6154 The Ukraine has always been a red line for Russia. Putin has made that publicly clear since the 2007 Munich Security Conference and again after the NATO Summit in Bucharest 2008. Russia’s invasion of Georgia mere months after that Summit wasn’t to steal potato chips - it was a direct demonstration of what would happen if Russian security was messed with. Russia is especially paranoid about the Ukraine. 4 times over the past 4 centuries an invading army from the West has tried to dissolve the Russians, using the North European Plain (of which the Ukraine forms the single largest area) as a superhighway into Russia’s heartland, where over 80% of Russia’s population resides. The NEP is the largest unobstructed plain in the world and the only way to defend it under modern military doctrine is through the use of tanks. It’s the reason why Russia has one-fifth of the world’s armour deployed along their border facing Westward, more tanks than the US, China, Germany and France combined. What is so hard to understand? The US was willing to risk nuclear Armageddon over an island off its Southern coast barely larger than Maine. If the Chinese entered into a military and economic cooperation pact with a deeply anti-American Mexico government and started equipping and training Mexican soldiers while setting up forward facing military equipment along the Rio Grande, is there any doubt the US would raze Mexico City to the ground and turn it into a parking lot before allowing that to continue, sovereign nation or no. Putin is a tyrannical dictator, no doubt, but it’s perfectly legitimate for Russia to view NATO expansion on its doorstep as an existential threat. The history of invasion from the West through the North European Plain is seared into the minds of every military trainee in Russia’s war academies. It’s not just Putin. They literally have 4 centuries worth of pretty reliable data on what happens when you let your guard down in the Ukraine. And whether NATO means it when they say “we come in peace” is irrelevant if all the Russians see is a mortal threat inching closer. You are the first person I have encountered anywhere of any political persuasion to claim NATO is a “non-aligned alliance”. Perhaps you meant UNESCO…
@@JA-pn4ji That's fair of course, and UA-cam comments are not the place for a comprehensive discussion of the facts. However, I would only point out that I have had a different experience, where most speakers I have come across have acknowledged the simple fact that NATO was working toward gaining at least a non-member partner in Ukraine. But in any case, since they are a sovereign state, they are allowed to choose this path for themselves, so military action against them for simply pursuing a partnership remains unlawful, unjust, and immoral.
This debate is rather denominated by the ideology and lack of rational facts to balance the pros and cons for the UK. China depends on Russia for the crudes oil as much as Germany, as well as the India, and they need to take care of their own citizens first. The debate clearly also lack of rational resolution to solve the conflict, instead I see more of the emotional advocation.
that are modern trends of mind manipulation to get information maximum emotional. You got this result, because u have it in mass culture, memes replaced human personality, memes copy theirselves, and u got individual without rational thinking skill.
"One, don't do that. And Two, you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin education you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late chahges at the public library."
Over the years, I had lost faith in institutions like the Oxford Union. Oxford Students who spoke at this meeting, further confirmed it.
What parade of blinkered both blinkered and foolish persons are! Not worthy of a university degree. They are speaking of their "democratic values", but cannot see how the western bloc governments have been blatantly violating "democratic values", human rights worldwide!
Marshall Islands, Diego Garcia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, ... most nations in South America, Africa and Asia are all sites of crimes perpetrated by the western bloc.
whilst i agree there is a lot of good hearted views from well spoken students, i feel it is disassociated from reality, and lacks perspecive from Russia.
Ukraine joining NATO and even the EU is by all fronts looks statistically impossible, judging the international relations.
In my opinion, we really should give a way out for Putin to leave Ukraine out of this peacefully without the world seeing them as losers, but rather as a country who got their message across and europe will now work with russia to rebuild ukraine and establish a fair relationship for all.
If we see them as losers, it will only be a matter of time before another related escaltion happens again.
Agreed! Was looking for this opinion among all the Western-narrative but unfortunately didn't see anyone echo this yet!
I’m not university educated but i enjoy educated opinions , I think your point is fair and represents the best outcome for everyone , especially as the alternative is Armageddon really
This is a poor take but grounded somewhat in reality. By saying we need to work with Russia to make concessions and give them a way out, you're validating their false claims that they are entitled to annex Ukraine. It doesn't matter what media you're using to assess this conflict, the objective facts are: Russia has invaded Ukraine without a valid reason; it's leader is filled with the expansionism bug and wants to restore the Soviet Union. We cannot and should not allow this to stand. Ukraine is a sovereign democratic nation and has the right to self-determination.
That being said, you are correct in saying we need to offer a way out for Putin to end this war without escalation into the Batlics, Georgia, Finland, Sweden or Moldova. As we've seen clearly demonstrated, Russia would lose any conventional war with NATO, quite possibly even without major support from the US. This fact is the one which could escalate this into a nuclear conflict, when Putin feels like it's his only option left.
So what do we do? Well yes, we offer a way out but it cannot be cost-free but it can save face for Putin in the interim.
How do the world draft a peace deal that Putin would accept and save him from making a fool of himself?
- Russia immediately withdraws all personnel and hardware from Ukraine. This includes Luhansk and the Donbass.
- UN hold independence elections in Luhansk and the Donbass, free and fair elections. Ukraine accept this loss of territory, keeping hold of it will only result in potential uprisings and conflict in the future. Crimea is the only area of contention here because the Ukrainians want it back this will remain a flashpoint for the future; a 50-year lease by the Russian govt. might solve this with the promise of an independence election after that time so Crimea can determine its own fate; before these 50 years however the Russians have no right to drill the Black Sea for Ukrainian natural gas that would be within their zone of economic interest.
- Russia agree to pay moderate reparations to Ukraine, these can't resemble the treaty of Versailles or you'll breed a larger conflict further down the line.
- Ukraine may join the EU and NATO and must be respected as a sovereign nation by Russia. The UK, EU, US and allies will rebuild Ukraine into a stronger power both economically and militarily. The Russians have to eat this as the consequences of their actions but it may take 5-10 years for this to happen; Putin likely will be dead or ousted by then, this won't matter. NATO could make concessions that it will not store weapons or personnel there during times of peace in order to keep Russia happy but if there is any aggression directed towards Ukraine, they can invoke an article to enable military build up, again this is the price the Russians pay.
- Sanctions on Russia will slowly be ramped down over 24-36 months provided they adhere to the peace deal agreement however sanctions will be reinstated should any aggression or non-adherance take place.
This is enough to give Dictator Putin an 'out' without embarrassing himself - you could also add in a UN DMZ between Donbass and Luhansk if you feel conflict could continue with seperatists and either ultra far right nationalists or the Ukrainian military. This is likely the sort of deal that results in lasting peace but you cannot allow the Russians to not feel a squeeze, this was their expansionist campaign, not Ukraines'.
@@saraf5414 Don't look for opinions that support your own. Look for the opposite and think for yourself, don't get spoon-fed Russian propoganda and eat it up. It's telling that one nation is stopping protests and confiscating their citizens phones so they can't see what's going on in Ukraine whilst the West has a free press that can report what it chooses. One side is hiding what it's doing whilst the other doesn't.
@Lilac CZK What do you mean "Is it because I'm a foreigner" - are you pedalling the 'Russo-phobia' narrative? Because if you are you're complicit with Putin. A country of 144 million and only 4500 arrested for protesting the war? Sounds like a country of cowards to me.
Blood is spilled in overthrowing dictators, Russians don't have the stomach.
To all sleeping "people of democracy": History hasn't taught you anything: don't poke the bear. The bear is not going to smile back
These are the young idealogical leaders of Europe for the future. Thats how ww3 could be triggered in the future.
@@mikeandersson7962 Generation Z = Generation War. World War 3 is World War Z. Z is the last letter of the alphabet. World War 3 will be mainly fought by Generation Z. Can you see why?
I love how people in the west are convinced that they live in a “democracy” and an “open society”. At least the people in North Korea aren’t under some illusion of being free. The west is literally why aliens won’t talk to us.
UK Goverment guide lines this is not a debate.
Then discussions may be?
Shockingly Superficial and monochrome!! Debates in my high school (St. Xavier's, Bokaro, India) used to be much more incisive and diverse! Oxford should take this down to save its own image...
Oxford should pay to have this deleted, the most scary part of this shockingly empty debate, is the fact that one of these guys stand a good chance of being an important world leader someone.
What is the point when everybody agree with a topic and still discuss about it? 🙂🙃
@Johnson Li well, I get your point and agree with you! However, my point was regarding to these students, that all of them talking against Russia, but not even one dares to criticize NATO provocation Russia to this war
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freedom, democracy, morals.....
light and dark
cheap rhetoric
Yes. Dreadful stuff.
Unfortunately Globalisation has destroyed democracy, just saying.
I am shocked at the shallow discussion by such a high institution! Words fails me when I try to describe the level of arrogance and stupidity in these young people. They seem to live a life of echoing others voice, headlessly.
Can't believe this is actually happening at Oxford. Kind of shocking to see how ill informed and one sided the discussion is. The brats are being listened as whatever comes from their mouth is pure gold. Hilarious.
The last thing these kids needed was a platform for their egos.
The underlying reasons for any nation taking a decision, is based on complex reasons including national interests and historical relationships. The Abstentions by some of the countries are linked to these very reasons. They have abstained because they are observing this closely and do not have any opinion in totality. The whole issue is entwined in Russo-Ukrainian history and the Russian population in Ukraine. Another dimension is emergence of an assertion of counterweight to NATO, which will soon emerge in the next two decades. Why can't Ukraine be happily out of NATO like Sweden or Finland and function normally with a good democracy. What advantage does Ukraine get by aligning with NATO? It will only allow deploying NATO defence apparatus right at the border of Russia. Can Ukraine compromise its stand and stop this bloodshed by not joining NATO rather than challenging Russia. Democracy and freedom are not absolute but relative terms and have to balanced with several other contextual factors.NATO can solve this crisis in a day if it chose to, by making a statement that they will not allow Ukraine to join. It is like poking Russia and Ukraine becomes the victim.
Well said. Finlandisation offered a viable path to Ukrainian security and prosperity. It’s worked in variations all over the world.
Simple, this is not about Ukraine's best interests. Zelensky main agenda, just like any other politicians in power is to keep that power
I found it odd that he played the riskiest card in the deck for Ukraine by joining NATO, but I think that will cement his political standing. His approval rating was below 50% prior to the war.
@@intothemoat you have to be joking? Can you think of a reason why Ukraine doesn’t want to be under a vicious Russian dictator? Because i can think of about seven million reasons. My family is in Ukraine and everything youve said here is ignorant and a lie. They’re not fighting for Z’s administration, that’s ridiculous. They’re fighting because of the horror found under Russian control. Need a lesson on that?
NATO encroachment is simply an excuse for Putin to do what he’s doing for one very big and obvious reason, the greatest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world. Russia, as Putin and everyone knows, is not an invadable country. Further, Ukraine has a moral and real motive to be a part of a defensive alliances and ignoring that to appease a vicious dictator is immoral. Why on earth have such an alliance if not to protect the vulnerable states? Just as nuclear russia isn’t invadable, major nuclear nato states arent invadable. So what purpose does the alliance serve if not to protect the non-nuclear, or in this case, de-nuclearized states?
@@trevorharrison1989 The US was willing to risk nuclear Armageddon over an island off its Southern coast barely larger than Maine at a time their arsenal was larger than all other countries combined. If the Chinese entered into a military and economic cooperation pact with a deeply anti-American Mexico government and started equipping and training Mexican soldiers while setting up forward facing military equipment along the Rio Grande, is there any doubt the US would raze Mexico City to the ground and turn it into a parking lot before allowing that to continue. Having nuclear deterrence does not mean you get to ease off the pedal and let mortal enemies gain strategic territories on your doorstep. That’s not how it works. Putin is a tyrannical dictator I get that, but there are no clean hands in geopolitics. If you are truly interested in security and prosperity for the people of Ukraine, neutrality would have offered a viable option. It’s worked for Finland for 75 years right next to Russia. Same for Sweden. Same for Singapore. Same for South Korea. Same for Switzerland. Same for Mongolia. Same for Austria. When you’re geographically stuck in a tough neighbourhood where the national interests of major powers bigger than you intersect, neutrality is an effective option. None of this should be foreign to you if you’re Ukrainian. You should know your own history. Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in 1994 under the Budapest Memorandum in exchange for security commitments from the U.S., UK and Russia - provided Ukraine remained neutral. Neutrality was written into Ukraine’s modern constitution for that reason, to maintain the balance between Russia and NATO, neither of which any country should trust. That all went out the window when Poroshenko then Zelansky took power and naively re-wrote the constitution to openly pave the way for EU/NATO membership, daring Russia to do something because they thought NATO would step in. Well, NATO haven’t stepped in, and they won’t. None of this should be a surprise - except apparently to Poroshenko and Zelensky. People fawn over them for flexing in front of cameras and demonstrating their bravery, but I would prefer to lionize leaders who know how to avoid avoidable conflicts instead of miscalculating badly and getting their people killed. Geopolitics is hard. Not getting killed is hard. This is why in a democracy the people must choose their leader wisely. My prayers to your loved ones in Ukraine.
The moderator should drop her phone. Grow up.!!!
Oh my god the third speaker didn't just say light vs dark 🤣....And he also said we haven't had wars in last 75 yrs. I heard all I have to about Western hypocrisy, but now I'm watching it.
light vs dark.oh my😂😂😂
This is embarrassing for Oxford.
The princes should be in the trenches if they want to fight.
Not any one of the speakers actually discussed the prior stages or historical stages of the conflict that has ultimately led to a full blown war in E. Europe . What more ludicrous is the recitation/reiteration of popular western media narratives we got to hear from these young minds , who lacks both insights and intellectual approach . Funnily enough it has ended into vilification of every other country outside the Western block rather than a thought provoking debate . They are asking about the dependencies of South Asian countries on Russia , especially India . India already has seen their( US and its allies) ability when they fled Afganistan , leaving behind most of their sophisticated weaponry of which militants are now boasting of . Now why would peace loving countries , such as India and UAE walk into a self created mess by the USA and their allies ( as it has been gradually turning into one) once again by Fully backing them . Also , countries like India , UAE have specific geo political and foreign policy interests and are pursuing just those . They will continue to practice their interests disregarding any sermons and thereat of sanctions from the Western block . If a thing that badly needs a change or reset is the functioning of the so called western democratic and also there's a need to recognise that there's a world beyond their territory , people there too have some apprehensions, reservations, differences of opinion regarding their well being and existence . We all must acknowledge these .
I am totally astonished listening to what should have been, as the title implies, a discussion/debate on the war Russia had shamelessly unleashed on its neighbour.
I though we were in for an interesting exchange of views of level-headed critically minded students who deliver their arguments in the true spirit of healthy intellectual skepticism Oxbridge style - factually and with a hardly assailable internal logic.
Instead, this has been half an hour of nondescript 5 minute monologues replete with empty slogans, and peppered with occasional muscle flexing and chest thumping. Academically, this type of discourse would have problems meeting some basic expertise level expected at a God-forsaken third-rate community college.
OxfordUnion guys get serious!
"5 minute monologues "exactly as introduced. No mention in the video metadata or spoken introduction of a debate. So much effort going into attacking something for failing at what it has not claimed to be.
Is this a discussion or series of speeches?
it is free news press retelling
the discussion requires different positions but those kids are all brainwashed in one way.
@@user-0xDEEDBEEF attention! we needed two way propaganda
@@meti616 -Free cheese is in a mousetrap only- .
Free news are in a mousetrap only.
The US has their Monroe Doctrine and Russian wanted their own...
These Oxford students must have taken their course from CNN and BBC.
Why just CNN and BBC...
Why not Fox News or Al Jazeera or OAN or TV3 or other news outlets...?
The first speaker talked a lot and didn't say anything
The power structures of the world are still fully grounded in the dynamics of the 20th century and when looking objectively at world relations a war was inevitable at some time. These universites need to be spending more time with degrees around 'resolving conflict' and 'mediating conflict' and understanding the complexity behind conflict. The young bright minds might actually sound brighter then. If you are a young intellectual you should strive to understand why. Our position in the west is likely to make this conflict between the West and Russia, go on, and on and on because we are the good guys, and Putin, well he's an evil mad bad guy. Its clearly that simple to some. Moral indignity will end up masking the complexity, and there won't be a resolution to this conflict. For Putin can cast the war how Farid Ahmadi underneath suggests, and no intellectual in the west could convince me that isn't viable as whatever Putin has done, the West for some reason, forgot what true diplomacy was before he done it.
Liberalism was never meant to be a utopia. It was never meant to be an ideology. It isn’t and ideology. It isn’t political! Nations are the power of politics and these people claim to be both for and against it. These people are indoctrinated into an attitude about life that is in total contradiction to itself. So then what is their ideology? They don’t have an ideology. Their opinions don’t actually matter. They are not actually social or liberal or democratic at all. The opposite is true while they vulgarize everything good and true about human interaction
@@puppetperception7861 thirty years ago when the ussr collapsed it was thought to be 'the end of history", or in other words, Western Liberal Capitailism had triumphed, and it has since been used as an ideology, and all the world expected to fall in line, but I"m afraid it is now likely to collapse to a world authoritarianism with the Chinese Communist party at the centre. The western intellectual hails Zelensky as a martyr in the western democratic cause and yet unless we drastically change direction, we"re doomed for collapse as in the grand schema the profit margin, and ultimately the entire western financial system is dependent on cheap Chinese production. If they pull the plug, and they will to gain supremacy, our world in the west will fall into an abyss
My heart bleeds for Afghans and Ukrainians, the bitter taste of partnership with Allies. In the name of national interests, democracy, freedom and human dignity, the US-NATO handed over the Republic of Afghanistan to the Taliban, and now the people have lost hope in an endless conflict. It was all unnecessary for the US/NATO had to say Ukraine will not be part of NATO, even now they can't support, but only cheers Ukrainians for their tragedy, destruction of their country and more casualties, instead of cease-fire. Looks like a West's proxy war
Afgans deserve this as Their history is not different than present
@@tejasshinde56
Nobody deserves it. That's one idea that must go if we're to do better.
Agree that is how I see it, completely fair assessment
First of all, we took in hundreds of thousands of refugees in every European country from Afghanistan and other conflicted areas, after keeping them safe from their own problems and religious fanatics for YEARS. Then they got racist, demanding and ungrateful, so we left. Let me ask you, which non-white countries are right now offering aid to Ukrainians? After the Ukrainians took in refugees from quite a few islamic conflicts, where is THEIR help? Or do they not matter because they're not brown? Stop trying to spin this RACIST narrative. Whenever a white person needs help, the brown ones are like "what about us"... despite white people saving millions of their kin and spending billions on giving them lives. Get a conscience. 👍🤦🏼♂️ hell, if it wasn't for white people slavery would still be rampant 🤣🤦🏼♂️ if my Afghani friend vahidulla could listen to you right now he would laugh in your face. He's the one who taught me about the true level of racism towards white people 👍 and I shall never be fooled again.
@@chrisj2502 🤣🤦🏼♂️ no props to your education 👍👏
Are these speakers students of Oxford University? If it is, then the OU is massively disappointed with what I have been admired. How could be called a discussion when only a one-sided story is being discussed? What is the rationale behind ignoring the other sided stories? Imagine! if these speakers are employed as Diplomacy? The world will be disasters!!!! None of the speakers proposes, how the war should be ended? But instead, Oxford speakers are calling for more economic sanctions and imposing. I find these arguments are inviting proxy-war and Western economic domination than the peaceful solution. One thing, that I wanted to remind the Oxford speakers is that democracy may be good governance in your country but that does not correlate with authoritarian governance. What we can do is how democracy and authoritarian could be negotiated and find alternative diplomacy, instead of pointing fingers at each other? What is black for you may be white for others but that does not mean we cannot negotiate.
Thank you for watching BBC
Academia may be now deemed corrupt. I see that polite posts of opinion need to be suppressed. SMH