@@desmondorourke442 Cheers! We all started with a budget system. I was happy with mine for years and it took that long to be able to upgrade. On the built-in preamp - External stages can up the game - but for someone on a budget they don't need to do that. I advise on external but never want someone to think they need to do that.
A lot of us older folks that have spent time in the military or construction or manufacturing have a certain amount of high frequency hearing loss even with hearing aids tone controls will help with the enjoyment of listening and being able to hear what the artist intended.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I wonder if I have an Item That For sure Zenith used in many turntables - in the Mid/Late 60's and Early/Mid 70's(Zenith 2G). the Q or Quadraphonic wire. maybe if someone could mess around with this wire, we could engineer a better kind f hearing aid. to help those in need.
Even without hearing damage coming from long noise exposure, ears age naturally. Almost nobody over 40 hears anything above 15kHz, and it degrades further as you get older. Keep that in mind whenever 60 or 70 year old audiophiles talk about "sparkling highs" and "supertweeters". 😂
Ah, tone controls... The amp I own has got tone controls, and I will never buy any other amp that doesn't have them. I use them because most recordings (vinyl or digital) do sound different from each other. Sometimes, there is not enough bass or treble, and I need to turn it up. I don't care what the "purists" say. As long as I am happy with the way the music sounds, that is what really matters.
I personally disagree with you as to the value of most tone controls, but that is my preference. What I do agree with is that it is your system, and it is there to give you enjoyment of your music in the way that makes you happiest.
Giving the consumer the choice is always the more elegant solution. However, my first real amp was a Yamaha A320, 30W without tone controls. Since then I never ever missed them. However, the equaliser on my streamer is in the digital domain. That comes without cost to quality. I used that with my Maggies because the crossover is really badly designed. That did help. But I'll be making my own crossover. So I can listen to vinyl on them.
Same here. And since I've been in essence an audiophile since about 1980, when I was 12, my audiophile "buddy" introduced me to the "flat" setting, which is the 12 o'clock mark on amps with bass, treble and for some amps midrange control knobs. To this day, I don't use the tone controls at all, so for me it's a redundant setting and is usually an acquired taste. I have two setups: The primary one is with equipment more recent, and the second setup is from equipment from 1985-1990. The primary amp doesn't have tone controls (audiolab 6000A) and the second one does (NAD 7240PE receiver). Both sound great, although very different sound character. This is fine and am happy with both.
Good sensible advice on all counts - I've been collecting for over 50 years here in the UK and have a lot of experience of many turntables, systems, cleaning, mixed conditions, all of this. Your mythbusting is a breath of fresh air!
Tube rolling is absolutely a tone (and volume) control. Swapping the driver tubes ie. AX7s will shape the tone and going down in gain (AU7/AT7) will give you softer but more headroom (more high end). Swapping power tubes i.e. EL84s/KT88,KT120 will give you more punch and low end the higher you go.
My go to system consists of garage sale and thrift store finds. KLH 23 speakers, Pioneer PL-560 turntable, JVC receiver. I have less than $100 in the system. I do have a second higher end system. But it's not necessary. Most of my albums are thrift store finds, but I reject 90% of the vintage LPs due to condition.
Did you know that Mono disks have a stereo Groove that is not used. I built a remastery Cable that can remove the empty channel and most to every Lp, 45, 78's with the Two channel Groove come out sounding way better if not very close to new.
I pretty much agree with all of this. Having collected LPs since the early 1970s I have pretty decent gear to play them on. However, I agree that you don't have to have £1500 tone arms and cartridges, etc, to enjoy the music. As you say though, there is a level below which you shouldn't drop when it comes to the turntable, if only to prevent damage to your LPs. And yes, more money spent on gear will generally lead to better sound, but the law of diminishing returns never applied to anything more than it does to vinyl replay, so a modest budget well spent will still sound great. Now back in 1973, the oil crisis struck and LPs became thinner and thinner until it was unusual to buy one that didn't resemble a roller coaster ride. Even now, fifty years later this has biased me to the 180gm discs, simply because they are flat. I agree that there is nothing about the weight that inherently promises better sound; I just get the feeling that the 180gm versions are made with a little more care overall (yes, I might be deluded here) and they generally seem to have lower surface noise, presumably because the vinyl is less contaminated.
But you have to be aware that 180 gram vinyl depending on where the recordings were pressed at quality control isn't the best. I've dealt with pressings that were a little off center. My nephew bought one the speed control wasn't like it listening to the Chipmunks! Don't recall what the group was. But the band was 1 of those rap/rock groups that are out touring now. He returned the defective album back for a refund. Just beware of this it can happen when out looking at new music.
@2:45 -- 180 gram records. I agree, 100%. It is a marketing gimmick, and it throws off your vertical tracking alignment (just a bit). What matters, for sound quality, is the mixing and mastering done in the studio, and the chemical formulation of the vinyl. Approximately 15 years ago, I purchased several new records. All of them played very quietly. They also all put me to sleep. They lacked life. My conclusion was that the pressing plants were using a new vinyl brewing formula to combat the belief that vinyl records are noisy. And this is where it gets tricky, because there is some truth to vinyl records being noisy. The noise comes from 1) dirty records, and 2) misaligned tone-arm and cartridge set-up. When the stylus rubs where it should not be rubbing, it generates noise. So the pressing plants decided to combat that avoidable noise problem by using a lousy vinyl formula that not only deadens surface noise, it also removes the life of the music. Due to that experience, I gave up on new pressings. Perhaps now, over a decade later, things have improved? @5:14 -- I respectfully disagree, but with a caveat. If you have very good gear, in a good sounding room, then you should steer clear of tone controls. Tone controls are a pre-amp, within a pre-amp. You would not normally want to add another active process into the signal chain. But if you have no other reasonable way to combat some issue with your stereo or your room, and tone controls help, then by all means, use tone controls. Or, some folks love exaggerated bass and treble. If you are into that type of sound, then have at it with tone controls. But if you have a fantastic sounding system, and you then insert an equalizer (even a fantastic sounding equalizer), and you left all of its controls in their neutral positions, you will hear it, and not for the better. Any box, without exception, that you add to the signal chain will be heard. Depending on the overall realism of your stereo, how much you will hear with an additional box will vary. The better your stereo, the more the sonic damage that an additional box will contribute. And tone controls on a pre-amp is the similar to an extra box. Tone controls serve two purposes (that I can think of): 1) You like augmenting the sound (extra bass, etc). 2) You are fixing a sound quality issue. #2 would work best by correcting the sound quality issue at its source. Not having a sound quality issue would negate the need for tone controls. Not having the issue is ideal. @6:59 -- Although swapping tubes is a form of tone control, it is not the same thing. For a stereo to work, your pre-amp, phono-amp, and amps have to exist. The ones that are designed with tubes, have to have tubes. Using different tubes is not adding another box into the signal chain. Whereas, adding tone controls is adding another box into the signal chain. When you tube swap, you are making no new additions to the signal chain. One set of tubes is removed, and one set of tubes is added. That is a break even on the component count. People swap entire pre-amps. That, too, can be deemed tone control. Swapping your cartridge, or swapping your speakers, can be deemed a form of tone control. It will change the tone of your stereo. But you are at break even with your component count. No extra hop for the signal to traverse. You did a swap, but added nothing to the signal chain. The bottom line is to use any equipment that pleases your ears.
Regarding anti-skate - In the past, I have always adjusted anti-skate so that the stylus remains perfectly still (no exerted force inward or outward). I was given some advice that the anti-skate should drift slightly inward, since this is the natural direct of the groove. Otherwise, the groove would be constantly pushing in stylus inward. This new method has seemed to make a slight difference in sound balance.
Wow, that last one really caught me off guard hahaha 😂 if that was the case all of my records would be destroyed, as well as my cartridge, turntable and apartment hahaha 🤣. Fantastic video, thank you for sharing it with us 😊
People who say not to use tone control are wrong! Recorded music is a planned illusion, and before it gets to your speaker's it EQed by the engineers, your never going to get "exactly" what is heard in the studio because sound changes when it first goes through the microphones! That's just physics's!😊
Ah, good stuff. There are always lots of expert opinions out there that are heavy on the opinion side and light on the expert side. Tone controls are always an interesting topic. If you have them, don't be afraid to use them. I don't have them on my amp, so the choice is made for me. But consider this analysis. Really, every component of your system is a form of tone control. Every amp has its own sound signature. So do your speakers and your source components. So, theoretically, you are customizing your tone to meet your preferences by the way you put your system together. If you want to add an eq to the mix, that's your preference as well.
Tone controls also may be more or less synergic to rest of system and correct it's futures in more or less favourable way. It's not their existence but their exact make by producer which can make difference. I use tube amplifier with tone controls and had to make slight alignment of RC elements to meet best synergic results - in result I never need to correct with them any material but be aware that all permanent correction is already provided in whole gear by me. Today the same new product may sound very different That is why possibility of correction is advantage.
Thank you for the tech tip videos. As a late Gen Xer, I grew up with vinyl but it wasn't as big of a part of my audio journey as other formats thus bluntly many of us are naive. Finding good sources for handling equipment can greatly improve our journey. Vinyl takes a bit more prep and upkeep than digital. Also, younger generations are more used to the process of installing/navigating apps and setting up digital equipment.
Fun to see you grow and gain experience. The last one that: "don't play to loud" Could actually have a valid point especially for TT playing. I guess that you have not yet experienced it. But if you have the preconditions right.. That the: 1. TT is rather close to the speaker. 2. That it is base heavy music that contain just that right frequency that is the resonance frequency for the specific cartridge (its conplience and mass) and tonarm (effective mass) combination. 3. To have electronic (riaa and so forth) that is and can amplify that lower frequency. 4. A FULL range speaker that also are able to reproduce that low note. (For example maybe a bookshelf go down to only 40 hz and then we don't experience any issue even if the match is in practice bad. 5. And play LOUD(ER).. If you happen to have all of those preconditions then you may encounter feedback trough/via the air from the speakers that excite the cartridge and tonearm combo! So the stylus will start to jump around in the groove in just that frequency that goes to your riaa and gets amplified again and to your speakers that reproduce that frequency and excite the cartridge again and tonearm even more and we can't stop that viscous cycle if we don't turn down the volume. Called "rumble" And not good to have a diamond in a groove that hitting the groove walls like a forceful vibration hammer. This is a technical wrong setup that can be eliminated but needs some preconditions to occur. (There is a reasons why we have lighter and heavier effective mass tonearms. And that there is cartridges with more or less compliance. So we can MATCH the right ones for the job. To lower the resonance frequency to low and safe frequency and not let it go up in frequency so that we amplify it an reproduce it.. Or you can cheat by use a rumble filter that is not optimal when you cut away the lowest bass because you have not done your homework and done a bad match (there is calculators for that). And now you will suffer with removing the lowest notes as a "penalty") That is WHY it is hard to explain.. And hard to understand if not experienced it AND understanding why..🎉
Great mention! I actually have experienced it and did a video on that. The vibrations from the speakers was reaching the stylus and affecting playback. Putting the Thorens on a record shelf was the solution.
Agreed on tone controls. I agree that if a record was mastered for a specific setup and a specific room, tone controls should not be used. But I do not think we have to worry about that happening, haha. Plus the "neutral" positions of the tone controls on a certain amplifier with a certain pair of speakers will have a different frequency response than another amplifier with another pair of speakers-or the same amplifier with a another pair of speakers; or another amplifier with the same pair of speakers; etc. And yes, anti-skate is very real. "Don't play them too loud"? Wow, there's a new gem, haha.
I like your attitudes about many things......loI. Also just subscribed to your news letter and saved your website for reference and just a good read. I had an old fisher I think it was boom box that had only two 4-inch speakers, a three band EQ and it was only a tape player with am/fm, and it was a very hollow or empty 3 piece set so the speakers could separate and it sounded fantastic. You are so right and so practical. I have always just enjoyed my turn tables with the phone rca inputs on receivers. Now I finally bought what I could afford in a hybrid tube preamp solid state A/B amp from Dayton Audio and just in love with my adventure into a form of tubes. Thanks for such a great channel, I've been watching perhaps for 1-2 years now I think not sure. Great content. Thanks for the fine advice you share about records. I have possibly 2000 albums, some are mine and many are from others I've inherited from their collections they were done with. It's an incredable hobby.
It really is a great hobby. I still get a thrill when a new record shows up on my porch (one coming today as a matter of fact). And thank you for the kind words about the channel!
In highschool I used wood glue…mind you this was nearly 20 years ago now. Nothing honestly happened to the record. It worked but I don’t do that anymore these days. I’ve had no problem the big fudge cleaner
we bought a Victrola Empire 6 and 1 retro looking record player bt CD am fm tuner etc. original speakers were ok hooked up a pair of edifer's and it was night and day. It made it worth it has the decor look that give off a pretty good sound.
@@Boswd To be fair the speakers I have are the Edifier 350DB, so I really can't complain hahaha. I just thought it was funny to be so called out. Honestly, these slap pretty darn hard, and I live in an apartment so it isn't like I could go for anything too much larger.
Great video! Thanks for not being snobby about expensive gear. I think the person who said that playing a record too loud can damage a record is certainly wrong --- however, maybe they were thinking about feedback??? Very large speakers set up on the same surface as a turntable (that is not well isolated from vibrations from those speakers) can create a truly awful sound that gets worse the more you turn it up. This is usually not an audible with tiny bookshelf speakers on solid furniture at low volumes. Can't to wait to hear your recipe for homemade cleaning fluid. I have one I want to share...
Cheers! The vibrations from the speakers can certainly affect playback, as you said. I wish the person who said that was referring to that but they were actually talking about groove damage 😂
Excellent advice as usual Rick. One more point on tone controls that you don't mention though: Any unnecessary circuitry is to be avoided as it has an adverse (admittedly very small) effect on sound quality. Whether this advantage outweighs the utility you describe is as usual, for the individual to decide. But the further you travel towards the high end the more these marginal improvements become important, which is why very few expensive amps have tone controls (in the UK at least).
I'm a musician since the 70's and a record collector since I was a boy. Totally agree. I have bought about 20 180 Gram records and I have some artists and records on several formats including CD, Digital & Vinyl. The quality control on these 180 Gram records pretty much sucks a lot of the time. Warped, skipped, etc.
People that say antiskate doesn't matter probably dont have the capability on their turntable or dont know how to use it. Your explanation was spot on.
Hi again Rick , I meant to mention that made up isolation boards using over 1” bamboo board with sorbothane pads to reduce vibrations and things like that to improve your audio, and of course decent headphones which trying to achieve the audio quality from your speakers . With regards to tines control yiu nat have to adjust to compensate for your room dynamics . Kind regards mark
My number one advice to people just getting into the hobby: upgrade from, for example, an Audio Technica LP-60 to an LP-120. This gets you a balanceable tonearm and a universal headshell. These are, IMHO, the base requirements for being gentle with your vinyl and getting the best possible sound.
There are also a bunch of older much cheaper turntables that are perfectly adequate, such as 80s plastic turntables that come with a 1/2" headshell and audio technica cartridge.
@@DoubleMonoLR Very true. However, my personal opinion, after decades in the hobby (I'm 70), is that vintage gear is something to be wary of. Tonearm wire, which is very delicate, degrades after time. Capacitors in amps degrade. I'm running a new Yahama integrated amp and love it. My turntable is a 70s Kenwood KD-500, but with a recently rewired Denon tonearm. Also, I'm longtime fan of Grado cartridges.
Thank you for your logic explanation. Common sense must win over everything else. I have even indpendent tone controlls in each channel to diagnose sounding how speaker respond to them in own location. . Tone conrols alow to get best possible sounding of system - they only are not able to upgrade too bad system to ideal system but they can make it half way . .
I enjoyed this video, you do a great job. I will add one thing about external phono preamps. Some vintage equipment (receiver, integrated amp and preamp) have very good phono stages, even better than many of the inexpensive models of modern phono preamps. As for scratches, even small scratches if they are audible they maybe more than an annoying sound. However, if you cannot hear the scratch then who cares about a surface scratch, I've put many surfaces scratches on records over the years accidentally. As for cleaning, the glue and house cleaner do clean record very completely, even removing the groves themselves.
Been messing with hifi including building my own valve/tube amps since the 80’s ….tone controls are a must for me…..and when there is one I’ve been known to press the “LOUDNESS” switch ….there is no such thing as “what the engineer intended” as you aren’t listening on the gear he used to master it in the studio space he was in and through the monitors he was using. Why would anyone change cables, amps, speakers rather than tweaking the bass/ treble. This is all really sensible advice.
I still use my Sony Turntable I bought in the 90's used for $15 and bought some Sony speakers also used for $6.The most I spent was $35 on a Pioneer receiver in box with manuals also used. For that price I definitely felt it was worth taking a chance.
That’s so funny I have a fluance RT81 and edifier powered speakers - and I genuinely enjoy how it sounds! Bless you. Can I afford upgrades? Absolutely. But for the time I have to listen and the space in which I listen I am very satisfied.
Nice quality video. I agree with your point with a caveat. I do believe you can enjoy vinyl with a cheaper system but I wish I just went straight to the higher end stuff without wasting time. If the person starting their journey into vinyl is already an audiophile and is picky they should just go for the good stuff right away and go listen to it before buying it. Also I love my tone control lol😂
Great video! Thank you. All was very good advice. I do have to comment on the last one. There is a bit of truth to saying playing the record too loud could damage it. On the surface it seems rather ridiculous, I agree. But in reality and under certain circumstances, it can create feedback as the stylus picks up the acoustic energy from the air. This can cause the stylus to vibrate therefore damaging the vinyl under it (and sounding horrendous so you would immediately notice it!) . Rather rare but certainly not impossible. I have had this happen before, sometime in the early 80s. While it did not damage the record noticeably, had I allowed it to continue I am certain it would have as the feedback was causing the stylus to actually skip.
Completely agree. I experienced exactly what you said myself before moving my turntable to a wall shelf to help isolate it from vibrations. Not much I can do about vibrations in the air but I don't listen at high volumes anyway.
Thanks, this is great great advice I've been collecting and have enjoyed playing records for a long time. It was my job as a radio DJ for years. I often browse the used bins at local shops and there are some gems to be found, if you know what to look for. ALWAYS take the record out of the sleeve and look at it before you buy it. The sleeve might say Miles Davis, but the disc might be something else. Also I can usually get the clerk to put a record on in the store to be sure it's "good enough" with no major issues. But I have ended up with discs that have warps that make them unplayable on a good turntable or surface noise that sounds like kitty litter in the groove. If they are a $10 or less purchase I DON'T return them. I chuck them into the trash. There are records that can't be saved and shouldn't be in circulation. They're simply...garbage. I'll take a minor loss once in a while to keep someone else from being as disappointed as I was. Cheers!
@@kaohsiung99 I considered that. But vinyl covers in the bargain bin are usually worn to the point that they probably don't have enough value worth the trouble of selling to a collector. That said, I'm willing to take a worn cover on a disc I'm interested in if the disc is in enjoyable condition.
I actually tried the wood glue trick before. I was actually very impressed with the results, but I'd highly recommend ONLY using that as a last resort, if you have a horrible sounding record that is so dirty that nothing else seems to work. You got to be VERY careful doing it, too. I thought I couldn't get all the glue off the first time I tried it. I was sure I ruined the record. But I eventually got all the glue removed, and it sounded great.
Great one Rick! WD40: LOL! -- Re tone control, completely agree on tubes being a form of tone control. Also variable resistance (MC) or capacitance (MM) settings on phono stage is a form of tone control. Even applies to SUTs (just got my Zesto Andros Allasso SUT in: gives my Aphelion2 more body/weight/gravitas but without loosing either treble detail nor precision in bass). -- Re loud volume, I think the issue is vibration transfer from airwaves to plinth. Think literally window rattling bass with TT sitting on the subwoofer. That might cause the stylus to skip so similar to scratched record. So many things wrong with this scenario ... Also agree on TT price, and I say that as someone who just splurged on a Rega Naia.
Good video. I am a little touchy on the tone controls part but I definitely agree with the 180 g advice. I stopped buying them in mass quantities about 5 years ago because the cost kept going up and up for the first part and then I still have my very clean original copies that are 140 G that were originally pressed with the original analog source and quite frankly do sound better than all these 180 g vinyl records and all of these 180 g records are all still pressed with a digital source so you're not getting anything better than the original and the original audio recording is what you want. I still have some of my 180 g vinyl records but I have gotten rid of a slew of them because they are heavy pieces of junk that cost way too much. It's better to seek out a very clean original copy of a record then to buy that record on a 180 g. pressing
It might have been mentioned but as I own vintage gear features such as a mono switch, high /low filters and loudness were common features during the heyday of records and do allow tailoring the sound especially since there are many variables between the actual recording and mastering as well as the pressing itself. When you think about it what is on the final product can never truly represent the actual performance and using those various controls can definitely allow one to tailor the sound so that it is enjoyable if the need arises. I started listening to and buying albums in 1977 but for various reasons had to sell my modest collection and audio equipment a few years later. In the last 5 years I have, without a clear plan, simply kept purchasing records both new and used until I found myself owning around 1,600. Along with that came , at present, 5 turntables, all of them mid to late '70's Japanese direct drive by preference. Most of the cartridges are from the same era and I enjoy all of them. I suppose I could save for a modern turntable but given my retirement budget am quite certain that there is nothing available that could surpass their performance for what I paid. As most of us realize, as long as the music moves you and whatever you own is capable of getting you there be content!
The thought on tone controls is that they aren't necessary, not that you shouldn't use them. This is more of an audiophile thing where you've spent resources including the the time to find gear that matches properly. It's not that audiophiles don't know how to use tone controls, they do. It's more that they have the experience to walk away from gear during a new purchase if they'd have to use them. If you don't like the bass or the treble during an audition of the gear, then maybe this isn't the right amp or speakers. That being said, you don't get that experiece without having used tone controls. I'll state this that, most higher end gear don't have tone controls. And if they do, they often add a by-pass switch to turn them off. The manufacturers don't want to add the extra circuitry which will only degrade the circuitry they designed in the amplification. So you should use them if you think you need to use them. That circuit already exists and unless you want to solder on the circuit board to eliminate those controls, they aren't going anywhere. What an audiophile would do during an upgrade is buy gear where the need for tone controls aren't needed. But I'll also state that audiophiles tend to be neurotic about their pressings where the only the best will be played. And while I think you're always better off if you have the better pressing, you may not be able to get one. They may be unaffordable or perhaps unavailable. And if you have a record and tone controls allow you to better enjoy the record you already own, then there's no reason not to use them. If you have gear and it's all you can afford that is bettered with an adjustment of the tone controls, then you should absolutely use them. The point here is that you need to do what works with what you have. Audiophiles will think what they have isn't working, so they'll buy something that does work. If you don't care to spend more money, then it'd be really dumb not to use those tone controls if they fix the problem. The audiophile will insist that the problem isn't fixed and it's just not as big of a problem using the controls. But we all don't have to be neurotic when we listen to our music.
Hi from Australia. One of the worst things I ever saw was to play your records wet?? I was a Cub DJ up until 2000 and the only way I know how to make records get louder was to turn up the volume with all tone controls set to flat (half way). The great thing about mixers for all media, CDs vinyl is that most mixers have a trim pot for each fader to equalize the levels right across the board. One thing that is dramatically different between all formats is output volume. Each fader has its own visual readout and you can adjust the volume up or down till until each record or CD readout is the same as the stereo output. That way you have power in the mix. I've tuned the sound in so many clubs and I bypass all tone controls on the mixer to stop DJs from adding too much Treble or Bass to stop clipping or blowing bass horns and tweeters. I don't tell them that of course. They can still use and turn them of course but they don't do anything....the placebo effect works beautifully and the processors and power amps are locked away. My home system is set flat for the most part but, if a record or CD is a bit lifeless, I can use the tone controls but I set them flat after I turn the amplifier off. Cheers Andrew Collins. Melbourne Victoria Australia.
I just got a Crosley C72 turntable with speakers for my birthday. It has a decent cartridge, diamond stylus and you could upgrade it down the road. Carbon fiber tone arm with anti skate and adjustable weight. It’s not crazy loud but at max is more than loud enough and sounds pleasant. Im long term going to upgrade speakers and cartridge and add preamp and amp etc and see how far I can take this thing. For someone just getting into the hobby it’s been awesome.
Also antiskate IS indeed important. Understanding how vinyl works is important. As you rightly point out in your explanation you're counteracting a force. Now it would be simple to think "yeah well it ain't MUCH of a force" and you'd be right, but the thing to remember is that tracking weight of that stylus is a couple of grammes. So we're only talking tiny weights anyway, so antiskate is quite a chunk of that. As your groove has the stylus fluctuating not just left and right but diagonally in and out to each side (to get the stereo effect) it is vitally important to get the correct sound (as you also rightly point out). So if you want proper stereo separation and KEEP it that way and reduce wear on your records, you use antiskate. It's also easy to set antiskate if you're unsure. Get a 12" single or something with a fairly decent open run out groover if you can (or a test record with a blank piece of vinyl without grooves). Pop the stylus down without antiskate and it will quickly drift. The trick is to pop that stylus down with the applied amount of antiskate and it should should just hang in the same area without moving left nor right. That's when you know it's spot on.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords No problem - it's just what I've picked up from messing around over the years. That and qualifying in audio engineering back in the 1990s. Understanding ACTUALLY how records are made, how they work, how the plastic is made and how it all behaves REALLY helps understand how to treat it. There's so many myths around.
Antiskate matters! I recently upgraded from my 1976 turntable to a Fluance with antiskate and the sound from my records has improved and the sibilance is nonexistent. I would love to hear about your cleaning solution 😀
U are absolutely right. For years my Thorens TD 160 from brand new was a great GraceF9 retipped Ruby Cantilever and a hyper elliptical stylus and the AstaticMF-200 Shabbat stylus, had a great turntable tech totally modified the TD -160 new plinth and a New the Jelco ST-550s Tonearm an a new cartridge Hana ML . Belmont phono stage Casta B Horn Speaker , audio space as 3i tube amp
I bought my first record player one month ago and someone recommended AT-LP60X and I made the mistake to search what people think about it and they hated it. Still, I bought it and it's really not that bad sound wise and it will not destroy my vinyls.
I've been pretty heavily into records for 30 years. Agree with much of what you're saying. I think a lot of people are chasing perfection, and records aren't perfect. I like to seek out cool music and iive with the fact that some records just don't sound the best for one reason or another. The one thing I'll say is that wood glue can be effective on a really dirty record. I'm taking about records that are not really worth keeping in their current state, but maybe they are really rare and you want to see if you can clean them up a bit. I've brought a few of these back from the brink with wood glue, but they are still pretty noisy. You only leave it on for several hours. If it starts to get hard its difficult to remove. If you remove it when it's still supple it can pull a lot of dirt out if the grooves that may not come out with normal methods.
That's interesting! I bet I hear from others who have tried it. It's so true that pressing to pressing, things will be different, not perfect, and the mastering might be altered. Chasing perfection is a practice in insanity (for me that is).
Greetings from the UK! All sound advice. Might be worth a video on good practice e.g. make sure the turntable is perfectly level in all horizontal planes; how to clean the stylus; turntable positioning (e.g. away from speakers) etc. Something on record cleaning would indeed be desirable. I note a link to the Spinclean. It's probably the cheapest 'machine' for vinyl record cleaning. One really needs two though - one for wash and one for rinse. And forget the microfibre cloths: drain and air dry is better (standard lab practice!).
Agree with everything you said, Simon. I like the idea of doing a video on the things you pointed out. I also use the spin-clean for the rinse cycle after cleaning with the Record Doctor X.
I went down the route of using speakers properly matched to the room. I built my own transmission lines years ago and the amp tone controls have been switched out for 20 years regardless of the recording.
found a Saturday Night Fever soundtrack frist year released pressing, light as feather, not sure of the grams but it's light. and the fullness, rich sound out of that album is extremely impressive. I do like the feel of 180 grams but yeah weight doesn't matter .
I recently bought the audio technical at-lpgo-bt which is just the Walmart exclusive version of the lp60x-bt, and honestly it’s a champ! I have had no problems with it so far at all!
Weird you mentioned that. I just came back from a quick trip from Walmart and saw that there when I passed the electronics section. I wasn't aware of the exclusive version until today. 🍺
Hi sir. I started into hifi back 1968 the year I started work at 15 , back then it was common to use a wet clean device that tracked the record grove . Obviously over time the record became encrusted with a mixture of dust and dried cleaner , which created havoc with my records from that time , all of which are still in my collection . But back then knowledge was thin on the ground when came to vinyl records , so people like me using such items was common place . But then came the 70s with the oil crisis and things really did take a turn for the worst , as attempts were made to use any material record companies could lay their hands on , and even reducing the thickness of a record to the point it would flap about if shaken . Even today getting those records to sound good even with high end equipment is a change to say the least , but as the years moved on things started to improve along with the quality of the equipment available . Also people expected more from the record producers so they had to play their part as well , but then the whole thing changed again with the advent of first cassettes and then CDs . Ironically having been interested in the different formats lv never lost my love of the black stuff , as for 180gram vinyl it’s definitely different and is really noticeable with old records from the 60s . But these days I don’t think there are any bad records being produced frankly Finally I enjoyed your discussion and agree totally with your assessment , the quality of sound that can be achieved for a reasonable modest outlay is totally amazing and way beyond anything I could aspire to back in 1968 Best wishes and kind regards to your good self From here in the UK
Thanks for another entertaining video. like you I love tube amps I also have a second system that’s transistor basest and like you I do use the tone controls for the same reasons keep up the grate channel 👍🇬🇧
On the topic of tone controls, I quite like the Leak Varislope pre-amps from the '50s. Apart from Treble and Bass, they also have rumble filter (high pass) as well as selectable low pass (3khz, 6khz and 9khz) with variable roll-off ("slope") along with different equalisation curves beside RIAA to match the different record EQ standards in use at the time. The result is that of the 5.5 knobs (one is concentric), only the volume control is not EQ related in some way
There are platter mats that dampen the sound your platter picks up, so what do you think when you play loud??? I think there is a lot going wrong. Not only the stylus will pick up the sound, but the airwaves will vibrate every component of your turntable. If your platter weighs a ton it will vibrate.
Hi Rick, another great and interesting video, I got into vinyl recently, and I started off with according to What Hifi award for 2 years running, is a project primarily E with Ortofon 5e and sounds pretty good and that’s on my old Cambridge Audio Sonata System now , on my main system I use Rega Plannar 3 (p3), which is pretty good deck , with the Elyis 2 cartridge like deck had good reviews. As long you set up tracking ns everything else to set up your deck them will sound good. The Rotel A11 tribute has a good phono stage but I got the ifi zen v2 phone amp which sounds a bit better and bought it at a very good price. I use the spin care record cleaner and works well. As an older guy can not always hear the difference on higher end equipment and also you have to think about room dynamics before what you are spending on what speakers you buy , as long you but pretty decent speakers and do you placements you can get the best sound you need for the listening room you may have .Great advice, regards mark
I use the tone or EQ regularly. Difference recordings are mastered differently. I fine some 80s albums in particular to be light on bass and very crisp. Also, some compilation albums with a lot of tracks crammed in can be a bit thin. So, its not that i just crank up the bass all the time, but i give slight tweaks depending on the source, to suit my taste.
As a kid in the '50s I grew up with my dad's 78s on a console and AM radio and enjoyed music just fine, and with the technology today everything else is just gravy. I listen on either of my two hifi rigs, in my car or truck, and even streaming from my iPhone to a little Tribit Bluetooth speaker in the bathroom and am perfectly happy. As for 180 gram records, I don't buy based on the weight, I just buy the recording I want no matter. What irritates me more is when you want an album but it's on two 45s instead of one 33 ⅓ LP. Any incremental improvement isn't worth the extra expense and hassle in my opinion.
I do have to agree with you on that, Chris. When I point out the fact that 180 gram records aren't worth the extra cost, it's not so much the fact that they are 180 grams, but the claims that come with them.
Instead of buying a new player I kept my technics SL-B202. Put a new Ortofon Red stylus on it. Upgraded the headshell wires. Had to replace the interconnects due to the left channel was failing. What a wonderful sounding player. Did all this for far less then a decent new player. And on the bonus side I still have a semi automatic unit. Something that I really hate about the new players.
Nah, it depends. They can equally be warped much the same. You can easily try this by buying a handful or a couple of cheap ruined examples and gradually warm them equally. You'll be surprised at the results. I've found that 180g tend to not curl so easily due to low heat, but they are just as easy to warp if there's pressure and they're not laid flat.
@@crunchyfrog555The warping of the record _while_ it’s playing is reduced somewhat by 180g records, because there’s more mass to dissipate the heat. The stylus in the groove generates a tremendous amount of heat. Back during the oil crisis of the early 80’s this effect was really dramatic, because they were making many of the records so thin.
@@crunchyfrog555 He said this is his finding. That means this is his experience! You don’t get to say “nah” to that. This is my experience too. I have more than 350 titles. If I get a warped record, it’s rarely a heavy weight record that comes warped. It can happen but my experience is that it’s rare. The heavy ones I get are usually flat. I can think of just one that had any warp at all. I know I don’t have as many records as some vinyl enthusiasts; however 350 is a decent sample. That’s just what I have on hand. I have been buying records all my life. I’m 70 years old now. That’s a lot of records! I buy a healthy mix of new and used records. I buy a bunch from eBay sellers too. Whatever your experience is, there is no “nah” here! It doesn’t seem like a coincidence to me! Obviously I’m not the only one.
@@richardmorgan1588 Actually, you do. Because there's a difference between objective and subjective. You can absolutely say this is your finding, but you're talking about something OBJECTIVE, which can obviously be corroborated or rejected by others. If it were entirely his opinion, then no I couldn't. Learn the difference. I could of course, be wrong, but you know how you do that? WITH MORE EVIDENCE. Go learn some basic logic.
@@declanfarber That is true but you're utterly missing the point. Because you also have extra problems on the other hand. In the plant when you take them out of the mold this means you have to allow LONGER to wait for them to cool, as you point out more mass. And this is where a lot of the problems come from. As pressing plants are run off their feet, some tend to cut corners a bit with taking them off the press too soon and not stacking them properly too. So no, it isn't as good as you think it is. And what's more the stylus DOES generate a tremendous amount of heat but you're utterly wrong if you think that disspates and warms the record up - there is no evidence of that. Teh heat generated is on a TINY point for a fraction of a second. You CANNOT heat the record up enough to cause any sort of warping. You're demonstrably wrong. What does happen is that if you play dirty records you can trap the dust into the groove this way, but you don'tunderstand thermodynamics if you think it heats the record up.
Hi John! True! I'm sure there are some online sources folks could try out, and I always recommend checking out local brick-and-mortar dealers first (if there are any).
Tone controls...there's a good one. My system runs through an EQ, at all times. I personally could not care less about how the artist intended me to hear something. In addition, every tracking, mixing and mastering engineer did something to impact the final recording. Since there are an infinite number of recording results it translates into an infinite number of playback responses, so I tweak all of them to sound the way my ONE pair of ears want to hear it.
The reality is that with an Audio Technica Bluetooth turn table, connected to your usual home cinema setup to get started will get you enjoying vinyl. Eventually you can get some nice powered speakers or amp and speakers and you are pretty much set.
Alcohol is the best cleaner in my opinion. I’ve cleaned my large cherished collection for decades with alcohol, I’ve never had a problem (unless you spill it on the Lp cover!) I keep all my records in excellent condition. You’re offering good advice here…. Mine is to hold on to your records. You may want to get rid of something now, but you might regret that later. I’ve made that mistake many times…. Getting tired of a genre and purging your records to meet a new found taste in music. I kick myself for doing that. It was a bad habit of mine in the 80s. I became “too cool” for a lot of music. It’s a good thing I kept that under control, but oh, the regret of what I traded or sold back then hurts years later. Don’t be a musical snob to yourself!
Re tone controls. My NAD amp has them, but their effect is subtle. I’ve had other amps which have a real boom-tizz sound if you overdo it, but the NAD never does.
Absolutely, NAD amps have always been designed to deliver current to drive speakers correctly. In 1979 I bought a NAD 3020, and a 'hifi buff' pal never quite recovered from hearing it drive his Celestion Ditton 25's more efficiently with better clarity than his gadget laden Akai 70 Watt amp.
I've never got the "no tone control" claim. I get the point about least colour to the finished sound and closer to the recording, but that's not the only criteria. If you've got a recording where that shines, cool. But we all know that everything is not recorded equal and there are many different genres of music too. I have a Primare amp with Monitor Audio speakers and they're nice but has no tone control. If I'm listening to certain classical vinyl recordings, it sound absolutely fine. But if I'm listening to indie records (especially any from around the 1980s) for example, then I'm having to tweak the tone to get what I like. What matters is ONE major consideration over everything else - what YOU like.
I can tell you with certainty that using Titebond II on a record WILL make a difference. You have to take your time but I turned a VG RL Zep II that I had cleaned with "standard" methods into a VG+ It's certainly not for regular cleanings.
The one thing about playing your record to loud may damage your record may be true if the Speaker is on the same surface as you record player without any damping, can cause the needle to pick up the vibration of the speakers which then cause the speakers to start going crazy on the mid and lows. Experienced it myself. But if it then damages the record, I can't tell. But I then moved my speakers on another surface and put some foam underneath the speakers.
I think tone controls are a necessity because you always have to crank up the bass and with my headphones I have to crank up the treble as well. I wish they would bring back the linear tracking turntables because the tone arm is shorter (less mass) and there is no anti skating control needed and the tracking error is not perfect but very minimal
In the 1990's I cleaned a dirty record using some decade plus, old record cleaner from the late 1970's. I was shocked to discover it completely reacted and destroyed the vinyl playing surface turning it into a sticky, gooey mess. I would guess the liquid cleaner was a water and alcohol based mix until the water part slowly evaporated out through the years and decades leaving more pure alcohol to do future vinyl damage.
Yes, it can be helpful. Supposedly the regular Titebond is problematic, but II will peel off well. The problem is, there will be a static charge afterwards, and will still need a wet cleaning (I use a vacuum) to get rid of the static charge...otherwise, the record will just attract a lot of dirt again.
@@johnmcbarron7282 I've been afraid to use Titebond II on styrene pressings, fearing they might crack or break when taking off the glue. I've read that at least one of the Titebond Extend glues will lift off the record once dried, though I have never tried it. If so, that may be good for styrene.
There's definitely something to "you need spend at least X to get good quality sound", but it really depends on why you'd want to play records. Just for fun to play records you bought as merchandise, comes with completely different requirements than someone who's looking to get sound quality from records that exceeds most digital versions. And yes, 180 grams records are a marketing gimmick. It's much easier to put a few more grams of vinyl pallets into a record press than to do good quality control after pressing. But the weight has no bearing on the record quality, as long as it's not too light or too heavy.
I don't think I've ever felt more seen until you said it was okay to have an LP-60 and a set of Edifiers, as I look directly over my laptop to see my LP-60 connected to a set of Edifier speakers
anti-skate also keeps the stylus pressure centered in the groove which helps it keep contact with the groove wall and prevent skipping. use it, it’s there for a reason! all you signal-chain “purists”, tubes add more coloration than any tone control circuitry if playing records too loud was bad for them, all my records would be trashed by now 🤣 seriously who came up with that one
Yeah - that last one was ridiculous when I stumbled across it on a forum. I thought it was a joke until I saw the guy try defend it. I'm still stumped at that one. 😂
Good video, just remember not to play your records to loud. It really can damage your ears, even though it doesn't damage your record. As for tone controls, well if you don't like them or volume control don't buy them. I think they have their uses, but who am I to judge. Just remember moderation is good even in moderation, the exception is listen to you videos. I do enjoy your videos, take care Rick. Chuck
good points. I think we can, too oft, get caught up with what photographers call "GAS" (gear acquisition syndrome). One of the symptoms is wanting to upgrade gear( unnecessarily). I suspect this drives the belief you have to have expensive gear. So many times I think that a better amp( my current hybrid integrated was not cheap) would sound better. I have to remember I have the amp to listen to music, and I don't buy music to listen to gear. {of course there are somethings that do improve the music... but as you say they don't have to be expensive}.
I go through that all the time but have learned (I hope) to recognize the signs of wanting a piece of gear just because I want something new - when what I have I love.
I agree accept the 180g record. Logically the additional weight reduces vibrations and by definition enhances the sound. Okay maybe not by much. For example i obtained King Crimson's album Discipline at 140g as an import. The band's reissue programme now offers 200g reissues and the difference is significant. However as a caveat i think my system probably sits at the higher end
I do feel I need to clarify a bit of my disparaging 180 gram records.I have some I love (The Iron Maiden recent pressings for example). I wouldn't consider them audiophile grade as advertising suggests. It depends on the mastering and the pressing itself.
I subscribed. Great advice here. I miss somethin.... You need interlinks worth of €2000 between phono pre-amp and amp because otherwise the sound will suck🤣.The power polarity makes also a big difference,🤣. We tested it at a lab and measured it.... NO difference!. And don't forget that you need 5 times insulated thick expensive speaker cables which aren't allowed to touch the ground because of interference... A lot of Audiophiles are sick I'm sorry. If I blindfold them and do some basic tests with cables, tubes, pure direct mode on or off, etc. they get confused and a little sweaty! I've seen this hundreds of times in our audio test rooms. A lot of audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears! They attach wooden little cubes at the corners of their windows which are connected with phishing line because it improves the soundstage in their living room...I've heard so much BS in my life as a audio technician. If you want stories... I'll have them for you... 😂
@TheJoyofVinylRecords listening sessions....Blindfolded tests and people had to compare interlinks...Why blindfolded? Then you can only trust your ears. They heard a difference while we changed nothing! They could swear that they hear such things as instrument seperation and placement of horn sections or violins but we didn't touch the equipment at all....i know this is a rude thing to do but we also wanted to educate them a little bit about cables and the sence or nonsence about them. We try to learn people that experiencing music is subjective for everyone. A lot of high enders fall into a rabit hole of spending lots, lots of money for a 0,01% percent improvement of their system but have not acousticly treated their listening room properly. That's one of the most important things for having a better listening experience . It's not all about upgrading tubes, cables, etc.
I found Gorilla Wood Glue works effectively on Older vinyl. -Get rid of Old dirt in the grooves of older used Vinyl and plays less crackly. Any other brand is hard to get off
I've owned a high end audio store for decades. Most of our top gear has no tone controls. I lived without them for years. I was wrong, assuming the circuitry for them is done well. It's possible that the problem is your systems not matching the response of the mixing system, different listening levels than it was mixed with or just poor engineering. Sometimes you hear the tone change you want but the fundamental sound isless "pure". If that tonal issue is bad enough, maybe that's worth it. But good tone controls minimize, even eliminate that. Antiskating is everything you said and also can cause mistracking sonically on the inner grooves. 19th Century classical composers didn't give a lot of thought to where their dramatic finale would end on an LP. I also use Wally Tracker but my normal advice is to start at about 1/2 the manufacturers recommendation and move up from there. If the first half of the side sounds better, increase it, if it's the 2nd half, decrease. One you didn't mention is loudness control, the Fletcher Munson effect. Basically if you're listening at lower levels than what it was mixed, you'll get a different tonal balance since the ear is more sensitive in the mids with the bass dropping in perceived level by quite a lot at times and HF less but there. You can do some of this correctin with tone controls but some of the more forward looking receivers of the 70's made it variable, depending on volume setting. The preamp I use now goes further - you tell the pre what you listening distance is and the sensitivity of your speakers. It then customizes the amount of loudness compensation it applies, again depending on volume setting. It's the most natural compensation of that sort I've ever heard. Thanks for the practical tip. I tend to think tables that get out of the way, at least for me, start at about $500, but that's just my opinion. Sorry for being so long winded. Hey, I was #1000 on the Likes :-)
I have an Audio Technica AT-LP120XUSB Turntable with an Ortofon Blue Cartridge My Amp is a Sony STRDH190 and My Speakers are the Sony SSCS5 Bookshelf Speakers so I have about $1,000 into my setup and it sounds fantastic
Back in the 90s, in the UK at least, there were people and press alike who said don't play your vinyl twice.. leave it for 24 hours before the next play . the idea wasto cool down the grooves as DJs often caused burn by constantly back cueing the record. some more bad advice was to only play records 'wet', whilst wet play did sound smoother with less surface noise the stylus often filled with gunk and once played wet you could then only ever play your vinyl wet again as playing then dry then sounded awful
Playing too loud can definitely be harmful to your record or stylus over time, but obviously not for the reason you mentioned. When bass from the speakers is conducted through your turntable into your tonearm and stylus, you get a feedback loop. Bass coming from your speakers, picked up by your stylus and coming out of your speakers again. This results a form of minor but continuous mistracking; your stylus is basically bouncing through the groove ever so slightly. Do this too often and it WILL cause premature wear on your stylus and records. This is one of the reasons why turntable vibration isolation is so important! Sometimes, this feedback loop occurs close to the tonearm resonant frequency, which exacerbates the issue. In those cases it often means you have to find a cartridge with a different compliance that matches better with the mass of your tonearm. It can also cause of "woofer pumping"... which in turn exacerbates the problem even further.
Oh yeah and in rare circumstances, you could get a standing wave (also known as room mode) that has its peak at the same distance from the speaker driver as your cartridge is at. In those cases you get an amplification of another 3dB...
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Yes, and proper speaker placement, to reduce those funky room modes. Not just for the sake of stylus/record longevity, but also to prevent your speakers from sounding boomy at certain spots in the room. That's why most speakers don't like to be placed right up against the wall or backed into a corner... a speaker with enough space to play is a happy speaker! 😊
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@@desmondorourke442 Cheers! We all started with a budget system. I was happy with mine for years and it took that long to be able to upgrade. On the built-in preamp - External stages can up the game - but for someone on a budget they don't need to do that. I advise on external but never want someone to think they need to do that.
My dad has an old receiver with a Loud button. Love it. Sounds great. I push it every time 😂
🍺🍺🍺
A lot of us older folks that have spent time in the military or construction or manufacturing have a certain amount of high frequency hearing loss even with hearing aids tone controls will help with the enjoyment of listening and being able to hear what the artist intended.
Completely agree with you there, Larry. 🍺
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I wonder if I have an Item That For sure Zenith used in many turntables - in the Mid/Late 60's and Early/Mid 70's(Zenith 2G). the Q or Quadraphonic wire. maybe if someone could mess around with this wire, we could engineer a better kind f hearing aid. to help those in need.
Even without hearing damage coming from long noise exposure, ears age naturally. Almost nobody over 40 hears anything above 15kHz, and it degrades further as you get older.
Keep that in mind whenever 60 or 70 year old audiophiles talk about "sparkling highs" and "supertweeters". 😂
Hunting, racecars, and rock n roll. (14th row at a Led Zeppelin concert will do that)
@@richardspruill5114 Yup those too especially Led Zeppelin.
Ah, tone controls... The amp I own has got tone controls, and I will never buy any other amp that doesn't have them. I use them because most recordings (vinyl or digital) do sound different from each other. Sometimes, there is not enough bass or treble, and I need to turn it up. I don't care what the "purists" say. As long as I am happy with the way the music sounds, that is what really matters.
That's right, Andy. All that matters is that you enjoy it. 🍺
I love my loudness controls when I am having a late night listening session. 🎉
And also, the room that your system in is paramount. Some rooms are "bright" and some rooms are less so.
Anybody that has made a mix tape on a cassette knows the problem of bass migration. EQs to the rescue!!!
I personally disagree with you as to the value of most tone controls, but that is my preference.
What I do agree with is that it is your system, and it is there to give you enjoyment of your music in the way that makes you happiest.
My amplifier is a Yamaha A-S501. It does have tone controls, however, I have grown to really enjoy the “Pure Direct” setting.
Same here!
Giving the consumer the choice is always the more elegant solution.
However, my first real amp was a Yamaha A320, 30W without tone controls. Since then I never ever missed them.
However, the equaliser on my streamer is in the digital domain. That comes without cost to quality. I used that with my Maggies because the crossover is really badly designed. That did help.
But I'll be making my own crossover. So I can listen to vinyl on them.
I think pure direct just disables the tone controls. I love my A-S301!
Same here. And since I've been in essence an audiophile since about 1980, when I was 12, my audiophile "buddy" introduced me to the "flat" setting, which is the 12 o'clock mark on amps with bass, treble and for some amps midrange control knobs. To this day, I don't use the tone controls at all, so for me it's a redundant setting and is usually an acquired taste. I have two setups: The primary one is with equipment more recent, and the second setup is from equipment from 1985-1990. The primary amp doesn't have tone controls (audiolab 6000A) and the second one does (NAD 7240PE receiver). Both sound great, although very different sound character. This is fine and am happy with both.
Good sensible advice on all counts - I've been collecting for over 50 years here in the UK and have a lot of experience of many turntables, systems, cleaning, mixed conditions, all of this. Your mythbusting is a breath of fresh air!
Glad you're here!
Tube rolling is absolutely a tone (and volume) control. Swapping the driver tubes ie. AX7s will shape the tone and going down in gain (AU7/AT7)
will give you softer but more headroom (more high end). Swapping power tubes i.e. EL84s/KT88,KT120 will give you more punch and low end the higher you go.
I've had a lot of fun swapping out different AX7s (and AU7s for that matter)
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords It takes a while as sound and taste are subjective. I settled on GL EL34's and Amperex Bugle Boy AU7s. Holographic.
My go to system consists of garage sale and thrift store finds. KLH 23 speakers, Pioneer PL-560 turntable, JVC receiver. I have less than $100 in the system. I do have a second higher end system. But it's not necessary. Most of my albums are thrift store finds, but I reject 90% of the vintage LPs due to condition.
I've been into this hobby about 50 years now and I agree with you 100 %.
Did you know that Mono disks have a stereo Groove that is not used. I built a remastery Cable that can remove the empty channel and most to every Lp, 45, 78's with the Two channel Groove come out sounding way better if not very close to new.
Cheers! 🍺
I pretty much agree with all of this. Having collected LPs since the early 1970s I have pretty decent gear to play them on. However, I agree that you don't have to have £1500 tone arms and cartridges, etc, to enjoy the music. As you say though, there is a level below which you shouldn't drop when it comes to the turntable, if only to prevent damage to your LPs. And yes, more money spent on gear will generally lead to better sound, but the law of diminishing returns never applied to anything more than it does to vinyl replay, so a modest budget well spent will still sound great. Now back in 1973, the oil crisis struck and LPs became thinner and thinner until it was unusual to buy one that didn't resemble a roller coaster ride. Even now, fifty years later this has biased me to the 180gm discs, simply because they are flat. I agree that there is nothing about the weight that inherently promises better sound; I just get the feeling that the 180gm versions are made with a little more care overall (yes, I might be deluded here) and they generally seem to have lower surface noise, presumably because the vinyl is less contaminated.
But you have to be aware that 180 gram vinyl depending on where the recordings were pressed at quality control isn't the best. I've dealt with pressings that were a little off center. My nephew bought one the speed control wasn't like it listening to the Chipmunks! Don't recall what the group was. But the band was 1 of those rap/rock groups that are out touring now. He returned the defective album back for a refund. Just beware of this it can happen when out looking at new music.
@2:45 -- 180 gram records.
I agree, 100%.
It is a marketing gimmick, and it throws off your vertical tracking alignment (just a bit).
What matters, for sound quality, is the mixing and mastering done in the studio, and the chemical formulation of the vinyl.
Approximately 15 years ago, I purchased several new records. All of them played very quietly. They also all put me to sleep. They lacked life.
My conclusion was that the pressing plants were using a new vinyl brewing formula to combat the belief that vinyl records are noisy. And this is where it gets tricky, because there is some truth to vinyl records being noisy.
The noise comes from 1) dirty records, and 2) misaligned tone-arm and cartridge set-up. When the stylus rubs where it should not be rubbing, it generates noise.
So the pressing plants decided to combat that avoidable noise problem by using a lousy vinyl formula that not only deadens surface noise, it also removes the life of the music. Due to that experience, I gave up on new pressings. Perhaps now, over a decade later, things have improved?
@5:14 -- I respectfully disagree, but with a caveat.
If you have very good gear, in a good sounding room, then you should steer clear of tone controls. Tone controls are a pre-amp, within a pre-amp. You would not normally want to add another active process into the signal chain.
But if you have no other reasonable way to combat some issue with your stereo or your room, and tone controls help, then by all means, use tone controls.
Or, some folks love exaggerated bass and treble. If you are into that type of sound, then have at it with tone controls.
But if you have a fantastic sounding system, and you then insert an equalizer (even a fantastic sounding equalizer), and you left all of its controls in their neutral positions, you will hear it, and not for the better. Any box, without exception, that you add to the signal chain will be heard. Depending on the overall realism of your stereo, how much you will hear with an additional box will vary. The better your stereo, the more the sonic damage that an additional box will contribute. And tone controls on a pre-amp is the similar to an extra box.
Tone controls serve two purposes (that I can think of):
1) You like augmenting the sound (extra bass, etc).
2) You are fixing a sound quality issue.
#2 would work best by correcting the sound quality issue at its source. Not having a sound quality issue would negate the need for tone controls. Not having the issue is ideal.
@6:59 -- Although swapping tubes is a form of tone control, it is not the same thing.
For a stereo to work, your pre-amp, phono-amp, and amps have to exist. The ones that are designed with tubes, have to have tubes. Using different tubes is not adding another box into the signal chain. Whereas, adding tone controls is adding another box into the signal chain.
When you tube swap, you are making no new additions to the signal chain. One set of tubes is removed, and one set of tubes is added. That is a break even on the component count.
People swap entire pre-amps. That, too, can be deemed tone control. Swapping your cartridge, or swapping your speakers, can be deemed a form of tone control. It will change the tone of your stereo. But you are at break even with your component count. No extra hop for the signal to traverse. You did a swap, but added nothing to the signal chain.
The bottom line is to use any equipment that pleases your ears.
That's so true. I can tell the different in VTA ever so slightly.
Regarding anti-skate - In the past, I have always adjusted anti-skate so that the stylus remains perfectly still (no exerted force inward or outward). I was given some advice that the anti-skate should drift slightly inward, since this is the natural direct of the groove. Otherwise, the groove would be constantly pushing in stylus inward. This new method has seemed to make a slight difference in sound balance.
I've seen the same advice from the folks at Soundsmith as well. They advise testing it on a wide deadwax area and that it should drift slowly inward.
Wow, that last one really caught me off guard hahaha 😂 if that was the case all of my records would be destroyed, as well as my cartridge, turntable and apartment hahaha 🤣. Fantastic video, thank you for sharing it with us 😊
😂😂😂🍺🍺. Thanks, Joe!
People who say not to use tone control are wrong! Recorded music is a planned illusion, and before it gets to your speaker's it EQed by the engineers, your never going to get "exactly" what is heard in the studio because sound changes when it first goes through the microphones! That's just physics's!😊
Completely agree 🍺
You forgot the room.
Ah, good stuff. There are always lots of expert opinions out there that are heavy on the opinion side and light on the expert side. Tone controls are always an interesting topic. If you have them, don't be afraid to use them. I don't have them on my amp, so the choice is made for me. But consider this analysis. Really, every component of your system is a form of tone control. Every amp has its own sound signature. So do your speakers and your source components. So, theoretically, you are customizing your tone to meet your preferences by the way you put your system together. If you want to add an eq to the mix, that's your preference as well.
Sage words, Neil!
Tone controls also may be more or less synergic to rest of system and correct it's futures in more or less favourable way. It's not their existence but their exact make by producer which can make difference. I use tube amplifier with tone controls and had to make slight alignment of RC elements to meet best synergic results - in result I never need to correct with them any material but be aware that all permanent correction is already provided in whole gear by me. Today the same new product may sound very different That is why possibility of correction is advantage.
not only tone controls but graphic equalizers are also useful
Thank you for the tech tip videos. As a late Gen Xer, I grew up with vinyl but it wasn't as big of a part of my audio journey as other formats thus bluntly many of us are naive. Finding good sources for handling equipment can greatly improve our journey. Vinyl takes a bit more prep and upkeep than digital. Also, younger generations are more used to the process of installing/navigating apps and setting up digital equipment.
Thanks for being here, Lamar 🍺
Fun to see you grow and gain experience.
The last one that: "don't play to loud"
Could actually have a valid point especially for TT playing.
I guess that you have not yet experienced it.
But if you have the preconditions right.. That the:
1. TT is rather close to the speaker.
2. That it is base heavy music that contain just that right frequency that is the resonance frequency for the specific cartridge (its conplience and mass) and tonarm (effective mass) combination.
3. To have electronic (riaa and so forth) that is and can amplify that lower frequency.
4. A FULL range speaker that also are able to reproduce that low note. (For example maybe a bookshelf go down to only 40 hz and then we don't experience any issue even if the match is in practice bad.
5. And play LOUD(ER)..
If you happen to have all of those preconditions then you may encounter feedback trough/via the air from the speakers that excite the cartridge and tonearm combo!
So the stylus will start to jump around in the groove in just that frequency that goes to your riaa and gets amplified again and to your speakers that reproduce that frequency and excite the cartridge again and tonearm even more and we can't stop that viscous cycle if we don't turn down the volume. Called "rumble"
And not good to have a diamond in a groove that hitting the groove walls like a forceful vibration hammer.
This is a technical wrong setup that can be eliminated but needs some preconditions to occur. (There is a reasons why we have lighter and heavier effective mass tonearms. And that there is cartridges with more or less compliance. So we can MATCH the right ones for the job. To lower the resonance frequency to low and safe frequency and not let it go up in frequency so that we amplify it an reproduce it.. Or you can cheat by use a rumble filter that is not optimal when you cut away the lowest bass because you have not done your homework and done a bad match (there is calculators for that). And now you will suffer with removing the lowest notes as a "penalty")
That is WHY it is hard to explain.. And hard to understand if not experienced it AND understanding why..🎉
Great mention! I actually have experienced it and did a video on that. The vibrations from the speakers was reaching the stylus and affecting playback. Putting the Thorens on a record shelf was the solution.
Agreed on tone controls. I agree that if a record was mastered for a specific setup and a specific room, tone controls should not be used. But I do not think we have to worry about that happening, haha. Plus the "neutral" positions of the tone controls on a certain amplifier with a certain pair of speakers will have a different frequency response than another amplifier with another pair of speakers-or the same amplifier with a another pair of speakers; or another amplifier with the same pair of speakers; etc.
And yes, anti-skate is very real.
"Don't play them too loud"? Wow, there's a new gem, haha.
Agreed, JWD. Any tweaks to a system will change the response, the sound, etc.
I like your attitudes about many things......loI. Also just subscribed to your news letter and saved your website for reference and just a good read.
I had an old fisher I think it was boom box that had only two 4-inch speakers, a three band EQ and it was only a tape player with am/fm, and it was a very hollow or empty 3 piece set so the speakers could separate and it sounded fantastic.
You are so right and so practical. I have always just enjoyed my turn tables with the phone rca inputs on receivers. Now I finally bought what I could afford in a hybrid tube preamp solid state A/B amp from Dayton Audio and just in love with my adventure into a form of tubes. Thanks for such a great channel, I've been watching perhaps for 1-2 years now I think not sure. Great content. Thanks for the fine advice you share about records. I have possibly 2000 albums, some are mine and many are from others I've inherited from their collections they were done with. It's an incredable hobby.
It really is a great hobby. I still get a thrill when a new record shows up on my porch (one coming today as a matter of fact). And thank you for the kind words about the channel!
In highschool I used wood glue…mind you this was nearly 20 years ago now. Nothing honestly happened to the record. It worked but I don’t do that anymore these days. I’ve had no problem the big fudge cleaner
I am literally sitting here with an Audio Technica LP60 and Edifier Powered speakers. 🤣
we bought a Victrola Empire 6 and 1 retro looking record player bt CD am fm tuner etc. original speakers were ok hooked up a pair of edifer's and it was night and day. It made it worth it has the decor look that give off a pretty good sound.
@@Boswd To be fair the speakers I have are the Edifier 350DB, so I really can't complain hahaha. I just thought it was funny to be so called out. Honestly, these slap pretty darn hard, and I live in an apartment so it isn't like I could go for anything too much larger.
@@freemind2pointo I've got the rt 1700bt.... They too are plenty loud... Great powered speakers especially for the money
I had a similar setup for years.
Trash 😊
Great video! Thanks for not being snobby about expensive gear. I think the person who said that playing a record too loud can damage a record is certainly wrong --- however, maybe they were thinking about feedback??? Very large speakers set up on the same surface as a turntable (that is not well isolated from vibrations from those speakers) can create a truly awful sound that gets worse the more you turn it up. This is usually not an audible with tiny bookshelf speakers on solid furniture at low volumes. Can't to wait to hear your recipe for homemade cleaning fluid. I have one I want to share...
Cheers! The vibrations from the speakers can certainly affect playback, as you said. I wish the person who said that was referring to that but they were actually talking about groove damage 😂
Excellent advice as usual Rick.
One more point on tone controls that you don't mention though: Any unnecessary circuitry is to be avoided as it has an adverse (admittedly very small) effect on sound quality. Whether this advantage outweighs the utility you describe is as usual, for the individual to decide.
But the further you travel towards the high end the more these marginal improvements become important, which is why very few expensive amps have tone controls (in the UK at least).
Great point, Keir. Especially about unnecessary circuitry involving the signal.
I'm a musician since the 70's and a record collector since I was a boy. Totally agree. I have bought about 20 180 Gram records and I have some artists and records on several formats including CD, Digital & Vinyl. The quality control on these 180 Gram records pretty much sucks a lot of the time. Warped, skipped, etc.
I experience the warps and bad quality control as well.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Quality Control is Poor. And it shouldn't be for the Price you're paying. I mean that's why you're buying it. For the Quality!
People that say antiskate doesn't matter probably dont have the capability on their turntable or dont know how to use it. Your explanation was spot on.
Thanks KDR!
Great video! Tubes definitely effect the tonality of the music and different ones yield a difference on varying degrees.
I have a Onkyo CP-1014 automatic return belt drive that I bought in the mid 90's. Plays great!
Wow - I haven't seen an Onkyo in years!
Hi again Rick , I meant to mention that made up isolation boards using over 1” bamboo board with sorbothane pads to reduce vibrations and things like that to improve your audio, and of course decent headphones which trying to achieve the audio quality from your speakers . With regards to tines control yiu nat have to adjust to compensate for your room dynamics . Kind regards mark
Thanks, Mark!
My number one advice to people just getting into the hobby: upgrade from, for example, an Audio Technica LP-60 to an LP-120. This gets you a balanceable tonearm and a universal headshell. These are, IMHO, the base requirements for being gentle with your vinyl and getting the best possible sound.
There are also a bunch of older much cheaper turntables that are perfectly adequate, such as 80s plastic turntables that come with a 1/2" headshell and audio technica cartridge.
@@DoubleMonoLR Very true. However, my personal opinion, after decades in the hobby (I'm 70), is that vintage gear is something to be wary of. Tonearm wire, which is very delicate, degrades after time. Capacitors in amps degrade. I'm running a new Yahama integrated amp and love it. My turntable is a 70s Kenwood KD-500, but with a recently rewired Denon tonearm. Also, I'm longtime fan of Grado cartridges.
I have the love lp 60
and it’s brilliant
Thank you for your logic explanation. Common sense must win over everything else. I have even indpendent tone controlls in each channel to diagnose sounding how speaker respond to them in own location. . Tone conrols alow to get best possible sounding of system - they only are not able to upgrade too bad system to ideal system but they can make it half way . .
I enjoyed this video, you do a great job. I will add one thing about external phono preamps. Some vintage equipment (receiver, integrated amp and preamp) have very good phono stages, even better than many of the inexpensive models of modern phono preamps. As for scratches, even small scratches if they are audible they maybe more than an annoying sound. However, if you cannot hear the scratch then who cares about a surface scratch, I've put many surfaces scratches on records over the years accidentally. As for cleaning, the glue and house cleaner do clean record very completely, even removing the groves themselves.
Thank you, Chuck!
Been messing with hifi including building my own valve/tube amps since the 80’s ….tone controls are a must for me…..and when there is one I’ve been known to press the “LOUDNESS” switch ….there is no such thing as “what the engineer intended” as you aren’t listening on the gear he used to master it in the studio space he was in and through the monitors he was using. Why would anyone change cables, amps, speakers rather than tweaking the bass/ treble. This is all really sensible advice.
Thanks Mike!
I am considering buying a turntable. if i do, this video will help me out, thanks :)
Thrilled to hear that!
I still use my Sony Turntable I bought in the 90's used for $15 and bought some Sony speakers also used for $6.The most I spent was $35 on a Pioneer receiver in box with manuals also used. For that price I definitely felt it was worth taking a chance.
That’s so funny I have a fluance RT81 and edifier powered speakers - and I genuinely enjoy how it sounds! Bless you. Can I afford upgrades? Absolutely. But for the time I have to listen and the space in which I listen I am very satisfied.
And that’s really all that matters!
LOL - love the "don't play the record too loud" one 😀
😂😂😂
Nice quality video.
I agree with your point with a caveat. I do believe you can enjoy vinyl with a cheaper system but I wish I just went straight to the higher end stuff without wasting time.
If the person starting their journey into vinyl is already an audiophile and is picky they should just go for the good stuff right away and go listen to it before buying it.
Also I love my tone control lol😂
Cheers, Lex! 🍺
Great video! Thank you. All was very good advice. I do have to comment on the last one.
There is a bit of truth to saying playing the record too loud could damage it. On the surface it seems rather ridiculous, I agree. But in reality and under certain circumstances, it can create feedback as the stylus picks up the acoustic energy from the air. This can cause the stylus to vibrate therefore damaging the vinyl under it (and sounding horrendous so you would immediately notice it!) . Rather rare but certainly not impossible. I have had this happen before, sometime in the early 80s. While it did not damage the record noticeably, had I allowed it to continue I am certain it would have as the feedback was causing the stylus to actually skip.
Completely agree. I experienced exactly what you said myself before moving my turntable to a wall shelf to help isolate it from vibrations. Not much I can do about vibrations in the air but I don't listen at high volumes anyway.
Thanks, this is great great advice I've been collecting and have enjoyed playing records for a long time. It was my job as a radio DJ for years. I often browse the used bins at local shops and there are some gems to be found, if you know what to look for. ALWAYS take the record out of the sleeve and look at it before you buy it. The sleeve might say Miles Davis, but the disc might be something else. Also I can usually get the clerk to put a record on in the store to be sure it's "good enough" with no major issues. But I have ended up with discs that have warps that make them unplayable on a good turntable or surface noise that sounds like kitty litter in the groove. If they are a $10 or less purchase I DON'T return them. I chuck them into the trash. There are records that can't be saved and shouldn't be in circulation. They're simply...garbage. I'll take a minor loss once in a while to keep someone else from being as disappointed as I was. Cheers!
I see your point. I would think that the cover might be worth keeping or selling (in some instances....)
@@kaohsiung99 I considered that. But vinyl covers in the bargain bin are usually worn to the point that they probably don't have enough value worth the trouble of selling to a collector. That said, I'm willing to take a worn cover on a disc I'm interested in if the disc is in enjoyable condition.
@@77Cardinal Good points.
Great advice! Thanks for sharing it, John.
I actually tried the wood glue trick before. I was actually very impressed with the results, but I'd highly recommend ONLY using that as a last resort, if you have a horrible sounding record that is so dirty that nothing else seems to work. You got to be VERY careful doing it, too. I thought I couldn't get all the glue off the first time I tried it. I was sure I ruined the record. But I eventually got all the glue removed, and it sounded great.
Don't use tone controles??? But. . .but. . .but, what do I do with my 14 channel equalizer???
Every 1 EQ you use causes you to lose 5 SQ. Everyone knows this.
😂😂😂
You could sell it real cheap. Want my address .....lol
Play trash😅
Rick! You’re a m a z i n g! I can’t remember laughing so hard at the shenanigans these folks get up to! Thank you for the wise counsel.🌹✨
Cheers! 🍺
Great one Rick! WD40: LOL! -- Re tone control, completely agree on tubes being a form of tone control. Also variable resistance (MC) or capacitance (MM) settings on phono stage is a form of tone control. Even applies to SUTs (just got my Zesto Andros Allasso SUT in: gives my Aphelion2 more body/weight/gravitas but without loosing either treble detail nor precision in bass). -- Re loud volume, I think the issue is vibration transfer from airwaves to plinth. Think literally window rattling bass with TT sitting on the subwoofer. That might cause the stylus to skip so similar to scratched record. So many things wrong with this scenario ... Also agree on TT price, and I say that as someone who just splurged on a Rega Naia.
Now THAT is a beautiful turntable, Daniel. Congrats on that!
Good video. I am a little touchy on the tone controls part but I definitely agree with the 180 g advice. I stopped buying them in mass quantities about 5 years ago because the cost kept going up and up for the first part and then I still have my very clean original copies that are 140 G that were originally pressed with the original analog source and quite frankly do sound better than all these 180 g vinyl records and all of these 180 g records are all still pressed with a digital source so you're not getting anything better than the original and the original audio recording is what you want. I still have some of my 180 g vinyl records but I have gotten rid of a slew of them because they are heavy pieces of junk that cost way too much. It's better to seek out a very clean original copy of a record then to buy that record on a 180 g. pressing
It might have been mentioned but as I own vintage gear features such as a mono switch, high /low filters and loudness were common features during the heyday of records and do allow tailoring the sound especially since there are many variables between the actual recording and mastering as well as the pressing itself.
When you think about it what is on the final product can never truly represent the actual performance and using those various controls can definitely allow one to tailor the sound so that it is enjoyable if the need arises.
I started listening to and buying albums in 1977 but for various reasons had to sell my modest collection and audio equipment a few years later. In the last 5 years I have, without a clear plan, simply kept purchasing records both new and used until I found myself owning around 1,600.
Along with that came , at present, 5 turntables, all of them mid to late '70's Japanese direct drive by preference. Most of the cartridges are from the same era and I enjoy all of them. I suppose I could save for a modern turntable but given my retirement budget am quite certain that there is nothing available that could surpass their performance for what I paid.
As most of us realize, as long as the music moves you and whatever you own is capable of getting you there be content!
That's exactly what it's all about, Neymar - enjoying the music on whatever playback system you have whether its new or vintage. 😎
The thought on tone controls is that they aren't necessary, not that you shouldn't use them. This is more of an audiophile thing where you've spent resources including the the time to find gear that matches properly. It's not that audiophiles don't know how to use tone controls, they do. It's more that they have the experience to walk away from gear during a new purchase if they'd have to use them. If you don't like the bass or the treble during an audition of the gear, then maybe this isn't the right amp or speakers. That being said, you don't get that experiece without having used tone controls. I'll state this that, most higher end gear don't have tone controls. And if they do, they often add a by-pass switch to turn them off. The manufacturers don't want to add the extra circuitry which will only degrade the circuitry they designed in the amplification. So you should use them if you think you need to use them. That circuit already exists and unless you want to solder on the circuit board to eliminate those controls, they aren't going anywhere. What an audiophile would do during an upgrade is buy gear where the need for tone controls aren't needed. But I'll also state that audiophiles tend to be neurotic about their pressings where the only the best will be played. And while I think you're always better off if you have the better pressing, you may not be able to get one. They may be unaffordable or perhaps unavailable. And if you have a record and tone controls allow you to better enjoy the record you already own, then there's no reason not to use them. If you have gear and it's all you can afford that is bettered with an adjustment of the tone controls, then you should absolutely use them. The point here is that you need to do what works with what you have. Audiophiles will think what they have isn't working, so they'll buy something that does work. If you don't care to spend more money, then it'd be really dumb not to use those tone controls if they fix the problem. The audiophile will insist that the problem isn't fixed and it's just not as big of a problem using the controls. But we all don't have to be neurotic when we listen to our music.
Hi from Australia. One of the worst things I ever saw was to play your records wet?? I was a Cub DJ up until 2000 and the only way I know how to make records get louder was to turn up the volume with all tone controls set to flat (half way). The great thing about mixers for all media, CDs vinyl is that most mixers have a trim pot for each fader to equalize the levels right across the board. One thing that is dramatically different between all formats is output volume. Each fader has its own visual readout and you can adjust the volume up or down till until each record or CD readout is the same as the stereo output. That way you have power in the mix. I've tuned the sound in so many clubs and I bypass all tone controls on the mixer to stop DJs from adding too much Treble or Bass to stop clipping or blowing bass horns and tweeters. I don't tell them that of course. They can still use and turn them of course but they don't do anything....the placebo effect works beautifully and the processors and power amps are locked away. My home system is set flat for the most part but, if a record or CD is a bit lifeless, I can use the tone controls but I set them flat after I turn the amplifier off. Cheers Andrew Collins. Melbourne Victoria Australia.
Hey Andrew! That's the second time I heard that about playing them wet - crazy huh? Cheers, Melbourne 🍺
I just got a Crosley C72 turntable with speakers for my birthday. It has a decent cartridge, diamond stylus and you could upgrade it down the road. Carbon fiber tone arm with anti skate and adjustable weight.
It’s not crazy loud but at max is more than loud enough and sounds pleasant.
Im long term going to upgrade speakers and cartridge and add preamp and amp etc and see how far I can take this thing.
For someone just getting into the hobby it’s been awesome.
I'm glad you're enjoying it! Welcome to the joy of vinyl 🍺
Also antiskate IS indeed important.
Understanding how vinyl works is important. As you rightly point out in your explanation you're counteracting a force. Now it would be simple to think "yeah well it ain't MUCH of a force" and you'd be right, but the thing to remember is that tracking weight of that stylus is a couple of grammes. So we're only talking tiny weights anyway, so antiskate is quite a chunk of that.
As your groove has the stylus fluctuating not just left and right but diagonally in and out to each side (to get the stereo effect) it is vitally important to get the correct sound (as you also rightly point out).
So if you want proper stereo separation and KEEP it that way and reduce wear on your records, you use antiskate.
It's also easy to set antiskate if you're unsure. Get a 12" single or something with a fairly decent open run out groover if you can (or a test record with a blank piece of vinyl without grooves).
Pop the stylus down without antiskate and it will quickly drift. The trick is to pop that stylus down with the applied amount of antiskate and it should should just hang in the same area without moving left nor right. That's when you know it's spot on.
Soundsmith also recommends a wide runout groove for testing anti-skate - I'm glad you brought it up.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords No problem - it's just what I've picked up from messing around over the years. That and qualifying in audio engineering back in the 1990s. Understanding ACTUALLY how records are made, how they work, how the plastic is made and how it all behaves REALLY helps understand how to treat it.
There's so many myths around.
Antiskate matters! I recently upgraded from my 1976 turntable to a Fluance with antiskate and the sound from my records has improved and the sibilance is nonexistent. I would love to hear about your cleaning solution 😀
I am planning to make a video about it soon. Stay tunes!
My first setup was AT LP5x with Edifier S1000DB(and the PHO-701, but it sounds great without it as well). More than enough.
I had an AT LP5 as well a few years ago. I enjoyed it.
U are absolutely right. For years my Thorens TD 160 from brand new was a great GraceF9 retipped Ruby Cantilever and a hyper elliptical stylus and the AstaticMF-200 Shabbat stylus, had a great turntable tech totally modified the TD -160 new plinth and a New the Jelco ST-550s Tonearm an a new cartridge Hana ML . Belmont phono stage Casta B Horn Speaker , audio space as 3i tube amp
Cheers, Joe! 🍺
I bought my first record player one month ago and someone recommended AT-LP60X and I made the mistake to search what people think about it and they hated it. Still, I bought it and it's really not that bad sound wise and it will not destroy my vinyls.
It's a great way to start. Seriously.
I've been pretty heavily into records for 30 years. Agree with much of what you're saying. I think a lot of people are chasing perfection, and records aren't perfect. I like to seek out cool music and iive with the fact that some records just don't sound the best for one reason or another. The one thing I'll say is that wood glue can be effective on a really dirty record. I'm taking about records that are not really worth keeping in their current state, but maybe they are really rare and you want to see if you can clean them up a bit. I've brought a few of these back from the brink with wood glue, but they are still pretty noisy. You only leave it on for several hours. If it starts to get hard its difficult to remove. If you remove it when it's still supple it can pull a lot of dirt out if the grooves that may not come out with normal methods.
That's interesting! I bet I hear from others who have tried it.
It's so true that pressing to pressing, things will be different, not perfect, and the mastering might be altered. Chasing perfection is a practice in insanity (for me that is).
Greetings from the UK! All sound advice. Might be worth a video on good practice e.g. make sure the turntable is perfectly level in all horizontal planes; how to clean the stylus; turntable positioning (e.g. away from speakers) etc. Something on record cleaning would indeed be desirable. I note a link to the Spinclean. It's probably the cheapest 'machine' for vinyl record cleaning. One really needs two though - one for wash and one for rinse. And forget the microfibre cloths: drain and air dry is better (standard lab practice!).
Agree with everything you said, Simon. I like the idea of doing a video on the things you pointed out. I also use the spin-clean for the rinse cycle after cleaning with the Record Doctor X.
I went down the route of using speakers properly matched to the room. I built my own transmission lines years ago and the amp tone controls have been switched out for 20 years regardless of the recording.
found a Saturday Night Fever soundtrack frist year released pressing, light as feather, not sure of the grams but it's light. and the fullness, rich sound out of that album is extremely impressive. I do like the feel of 180 grams but yeah weight doesn't matter .
I will admit - the weight of a heavier record does feel good.
I recently bought the audio technical at-lpgo-bt which is just the Walmart exclusive version of the lp60x-bt, and honestly it’s a champ! I have had no problems with it so far at all!
Weird you mentioned that. I just came back from a quick trip from Walmart and saw that there when I passed the electronics section. I wasn't aware of the exclusive version until today. 🍺
I have LP's 40 odd years old that have never been cleaned other than dusting. Proper handling and storage is the key.
Hi sir. I started into hifi back 1968 the year I started work at 15 , back then it was common to use a wet clean device that tracked the record grove . Obviously over time the record became encrusted with a mixture of dust and dried cleaner , which created havoc with my records from that time , all of which are still in my collection . But back then knowledge was thin on the ground when came to vinyl records , so people like me using such items was common place . But then came the 70s with the oil crisis and things really did take a turn for the worst , as attempts were made to use any material record companies could lay their hands on , and even reducing the thickness of a record to the point it would flap about if shaken . Even today getting those records to sound good even with high end equipment is a change to say the least , but as the years moved on things started to improve along with the quality of the equipment available . Also people expected more from the record producers so they had to play their part as well , but then the whole thing changed again with the advent of first cassettes and then CDs . Ironically having been interested in the different formats lv never lost my love of the black stuff , as for 180gram vinyl it’s definitely different and is really noticeable with old records from the 60s . But these days I don’t think there are any bad records being produced frankly
Finally I enjoyed your discussion and agree totally with your assessment , the quality of sound that can be achieved for a reasonable modest outlay is totally amazing and way beyond anything I could aspire to back in 1968
Best wishes and kind regards to your good self From here in the UK
Thank you! Cheers! 🍺
Thanks for another entertaining video. like you I love tube amps I also have a second system that’s transistor basest and like you I do use the tone controls for the same reasons keep up the grate channel 👍🇬🇧
Thank you, Ian!
On the topic of tone controls, I quite like the Leak Varislope pre-amps from the '50s. Apart from Treble and Bass, they also have rumble filter (high pass) as well as selectable low pass (3khz, 6khz and 9khz) with variable roll-off ("slope") along with different equalisation curves beside RIAA to match the different record EQ standards in use at the time. The result is that of the 5.5 knobs (one is concentric), only the volume control is not EQ related in some way
I remember those different curves being selectable on old hi-fi gear.
There are platter mats that dampen the sound your platter picks up, so what do you think when you play loud??? I think there is a lot going wrong. Not only the stylus will pick up the sound, but the airwaves will vibrate every component of your turntable. If your platter weighs a ton it will vibrate.
You're right about the wood glue for cleaning.....ya gotta use Titebond II and not the one you showed. ;-)
Hi Rick, another great and interesting video, I got into vinyl recently, and I started off with according to What Hifi award for 2 years running, is a project primarily E with Ortofon 5e and sounds pretty good and that’s on my old Cambridge Audio Sonata System now , on my main system I use Rega Plannar 3 (p3), which is pretty good deck , with the Elyis 2 cartridge like deck had good reviews. As long you set up tracking ns everything else to set up your deck them will sound good. The Rotel A11 tribute has a good phono stage but I got the ifi zen v2 phone amp which sounds a bit better and bought it at a very good price. I use the spin care record cleaner and works well. As an older guy can not always hear the difference on higher end equipment and also you have to think about room dynamics before what you are spending on what speakers you buy , as long you but pretty decent speakers and do you placements you can get the best sound you need for the listening room you may have .Great advice, regards mark
You just nailed something important - room dynamics. That will change all sorts of things (tone, bass, etc). And welcome to the world of vinyl, Mark 🍺
Thanks Rick . Regards mark
I use the tone or EQ regularly. Difference recordings are mastered differently. I fine some 80s albums in particular to be light on bass and very crisp. Also, some compilation albums with a lot of tracks crammed in can be a bit thin. So, its not that i just crank up the bass all the time, but i give slight tweaks depending on the source, to suit my taste.
I have already shared your cleaning solution with several people. Several people agreed with it.
Thanks, David! Are you talking about the one I sent you with the ingredient most would disagree with? I'm doing a video on it.
As a kid in the '50s I grew up with my dad's 78s on a console and AM radio and enjoyed music just fine, and with the technology today everything else is just gravy. I listen on either of my two hifi rigs, in my car or truck, and even streaming from my iPhone to a little Tribit Bluetooth speaker in the bathroom and am perfectly happy.
As for 180 gram records, I don't buy based on the weight, I just buy the recording I want no matter. What irritates me more is when you want an album but it's on two 45s instead of one 33 ⅓ LP. Any incremental improvement isn't worth the extra expense and hassle in my opinion.
I do have to agree with you on that, Chris. When I point out the fact that 180 gram records aren't worth the extra cost, it's not so much the fact that they are 180 grams, but the claims that come with them.
Instead of buying a new player I kept my technics SL-B202. Put a new Ortofon Red stylus on it. Upgraded the headshell wires. Had to replace the interconnects due to the left channel was failing. What a wonderful sounding player. Did all this for far less then a decent new player. And on the bonus side I still have a semi automatic unit. Something that I really hate about the new players.
Nice job!
I find that a 180g record is less likely to be warped than its lighter cousins.
Nah, it depends. They can equally be warped much the same. You can easily try this by buying a handful or a couple of cheap ruined examples and gradually warm them equally. You'll be surprised at the results.
I've found that 180g tend to not curl so easily due to low heat, but they are just as easy to warp if there's pressure and they're not laid flat.
@@crunchyfrog555The warping of the record _while_ it’s playing is reduced somewhat by 180g records, because there’s more mass to dissipate the heat. The stylus in the groove generates a tremendous amount of heat. Back during the oil crisis of the early 80’s this effect was really dramatic, because they were making many of the records so thin.
@@crunchyfrog555 He said this is his finding. That means this is his experience! You don’t get to say “nah” to that. This is my experience too. I have more than 350 titles. If I get a warped record, it’s rarely a heavy weight record that comes warped. It can happen but my experience is that it’s rare. The heavy ones I get are usually flat. I can think of just one that had any warp at all. I know I don’t have as many records as some vinyl enthusiasts; however 350 is a decent sample. That’s just what I have on hand. I have been buying records all my life. I’m 70 years old now. That’s a lot of records! I buy a healthy mix of new and used records. I buy a bunch from eBay sellers too. Whatever your experience is, there is no “nah” here! It doesn’t seem like a coincidence to me! Obviously I’m not the only one.
@@richardmorgan1588 Actually, you do. Because there's a difference between objective and subjective. You can absolutely say this is your finding, but you're talking about something OBJECTIVE, which can obviously be corroborated or rejected by others. If it were entirely his opinion, then no I couldn't.
Learn the difference.
I could of course, be wrong, but you know how you do that? WITH MORE EVIDENCE.
Go learn some basic logic.
@@declanfarber That is true but you're utterly missing the point. Because you also have extra problems on the other hand. In the plant when you take them out of the mold this means you have to allow LONGER to wait for them to cool, as you point out more mass. And this is where a lot of the problems come from. As pressing plants are run off their feet, some tend to cut corners a bit with taking them off the press too soon and not stacking them properly too.
So no, it isn't as good as you think it is.
And what's more the stylus DOES generate a tremendous amount of heat but you're utterly wrong if you think that disspates and warms the record up - there is no evidence of that. Teh heat generated is on a TINY point for a fraction of a second. You CANNOT heat the record up enough to cause any sort of warping. You're demonstrably wrong. What does happen is that if you play dirty records you can trap the dust into the groove this way, but you don'tunderstand thermodynamics if you think it heats the record up.
Used audiophile equipment is a great avenue to better equipment. Many dealers offer great deals and customer service
Hi John! True! I'm sure there are some online sources folks could try out, and I always recommend checking out local brick-and-mortar dealers first (if there are any).
Tone controls...there's a good one. My system runs through an EQ, at all times. I personally could not care less about how the artist intended me to hear something. In addition, every tracking, mixing and mastering engineer did something to impact the final recording. Since there are an infinite number of recording results it translates into an infinite number of playback responses, so I tweak all of them to sound the way my ONE pair of ears want to hear it.
Cheers to that! 🍺
Thanks for the video very informative👍👍
Cheers! 🍺
The reality is that with an Audio Technica Bluetooth turn table, connected to your usual home cinema setup to get started will get you enjoying vinyl. Eventually you can get some nice powered speakers or amp and speakers and you are pretty much set.
Excellent point!
Alcohol is the best cleaner in my opinion. I’ve cleaned my large cherished collection for decades with alcohol, I’ve never had a problem (unless you spill it on the Lp cover!) I keep all my records in excellent condition. You’re offering good advice here….
Mine is to hold on to your records. You may want to get rid of something now, but you might regret that later.
I’ve made that mistake many times…. Getting tired of a genre and purging your records to meet a new found taste in music.
I kick myself for doing that.
It was a bad habit of mine in the 80s. I became “too cool” for a lot of music. It’s a good thing I kept that under control, but oh, the regret of what I traded or sold back then hurts years later.
Don’t be a musical snob to yourself!
Great advice there!
Re tone controls. My NAD amp has them, but their effect is subtle. I’ve had other amps which have a real boom-tizz sound if you overdo it, but the NAD never does.
That's great to know! The Galion also has very subtle tone controls. It's appreciated.
Absolutely, NAD amps have always been designed to deliver current to drive speakers correctly. In 1979 I bought a NAD 3020, and a 'hifi buff' pal never quite recovered from hearing it drive his Celestion Ditton 25's more efficiently with better clarity than his gadget laden Akai 70 Watt amp.
I still have an EQ and I still use it when I need it! If I play an album that sounds really flat, I can make it sound pleasing to MY ears!
And that's all that matters - how it sounds to you.
An issue I saw with playing records too loud once was acoustic feedback from the speakers to the turntable
That is definitely an issue. Vibrations will affect playback, as you said.
I've never got the "no tone control" claim. I get the point about least colour to the finished sound and closer to the recording, but that's not the only criteria.
If you've got a recording where that shines, cool. But we all know that everything is not recorded equal and there are many different genres of music too.
I have a Primare amp with Monitor Audio speakers and they're nice but has no tone control. If I'm listening to certain classical vinyl recordings, it sound absolutely fine.
But if I'm listening to indie records (especially any from around the 1980s) for example, then I'm having to tweak the tone to get what I like.
What matters is ONE major consideration over everything else - what YOU like.
That's it exactly, Daniel!
I can tell you with certainty that using Titebond II on a record WILL make a difference. You have to take your time but I turned a VG RL Zep II that I had cleaned with "standard" methods into a VG+ It's certainly not for regular cleanings.
The one thing about playing your record to loud may damage your record may be true if the Speaker is on the same surface as you record player without any damping, can cause the needle to pick up the vibration of the speakers which then cause the speakers to start going crazy on the mid and lows. Experienced it myself. But if it then damages the record, I can't tell. But I then moved my speakers on another surface and put some foam underneath the speakers.
Perfect. And yes - vibrations can very well be an issue if they reach the stylus. Putting my turntable on a wall shelf helped with that.
I think tone controls are a necessity because you always have to crank up the bass and with my headphones I have to crank up the treble as well. I wish they would bring back the linear tracking turntables because the tone arm is shorter (less mass) and there is no anti skating control needed and the tracking error is not perfect but very minimal
Good old linear tracking!
In the 1990's I cleaned a dirty record using some decade plus, old record cleaner from the late 1970's. I was shocked to discover it completely reacted and destroyed the vinyl playing surface turning it into a sticky, gooey mess. I would guess the liquid cleaner was a water and alcohol based mix until the water part slowly evaporated out through the years and decades leaving more pure alcohol to do future vinyl damage.
Yikes! That scary. Almost like it turned into battery acid
Probably it was somex
I've used Titebond II on thousands of records.
Yes, it can be helpful. Supposedly the regular Titebond is problematic, but II will peel off well. The problem is, there will be a static charge afterwards, and will still need a wet cleaning (I use a vacuum) to get rid of the static charge...otherwise, the record will just attract a lot of dirt again.
@@owlnswan4016 yes, regular tight bond will not peel in one piece. It’s entirely different the way it interacts with the vinyl. DO NOT USE.
@@johnmcbarron7282 I've been afraid to use Titebond II on styrene pressings, fearing they might crack or break when taking off the glue. I've read that at least one of the Titebond Extend glues will lift off the record once dried, though I have never tried it. If so, that may be good for styrene.
You just got yourself a new sub and I have shared your channel ❤️👍
Thank you!
There's definitely something to "you need spend at least X to get good quality sound", but it really depends on why you'd want to play records.
Just for fun to play records you bought as merchandise, comes with completely different requirements than someone who's looking to get sound quality from records that exceeds most digital versions.
And yes, 180 grams records are a marketing gimmick. It's much easier to put a few more grams of vinyl pallets into a record press than to do good quality control after pressing.
But the weight has no bearing on the record quality, as long as it's not too light or too heavy.
I don't think I've ever felt more seen until you said it was okay to have an LP-60 and a set of Edifiers, as I look directly over my laptop to see my LP-60 connected to a set of Edifier speakers
That's awesome, Kenny. Enjoy!
anti-skate also keeps the stylus pressure centered in the groove which helps it keep contact with the groove wall and prevent skipping. use it, it’s there for a reason!
all you signal-chain “purists”, tubes add more coloration than any tone control circuitry
if playing records too loud was bad for them, all my records would be trashed by now 🤣 seriously who came up with that one
Yeah - that last one was ridiculous when I stumbled across it on a forum. I thought it was a joke until I saw the guy try defend it. I'm still stumped at that one. 😂
Good video, just remember not to play your records to loud. It really can damage your ears, even though it doesn't damage your record. As for tone controls, well if you don't like them or volume control don't buy them. I think they have their uses, but who am I to judge. Just remember moderation is good even in moderation, the exception is listen to you videos. I do enjoy your videos, take care Rick. Chuck
Thank you, Chuck. Appreciate that!
good points. I think we can, too oft, get caught up with what photographers call "GAS" (gear acquisition syndrome). One of the symptoms is wanting to upgrade gear( unnecessarily). I suspect this drives the belief you have to have expensive gear. So many times I think that a better amp( my current hybrid integrated was not cheap) would sound better. I have to remember I have the amp to listen to music, and I don't buy music to listen to gear. {of course there are somethings that do improve the music... but as you say they don't have to be expensive}.
I go through that all the time but have learned (I hope) to recognize the signs of wanting a piece of gear just because I want something new - when what I have I love.
I agree accept the 180g record. Logically the additional weight reduces vibrations and by definition enhances the sound. Okay maybe not by much. For example i obtained King Crimson's album Discipline at 140g as an import. The band's reissue programme now offers 200g reissues and the difference is significant. However as a caveat i think my system probably sits at the higher end
I do feel I need to clarify a bit of my disparaging 180 gram records.I have some I love (The Iron Maiden recent pressings for example). I wouldn't consider them audiophile grade as advertising suggests. It depends on the mastering and the pressing itself.
I grew up with equipment with tone controls too. Nothing gives me retro nostalgic feelings like equipment with a bass and treble control. LOL
Same!
I own a Fluance RT-85T. I love it.
I subscribed. Great advice here. I miss somethin.... You need interlinks worth of €2000 between phono pre-amp and amp because otherwise the sound will suck🤣.The power polarity makes also a big difference,🤣. We tested it at a lab and measured it.... NO difference!. And don't forget that you need 5 times insulated thick expensive speaker cables which aren't allowed to touch the ground because of interference... A lot of Audiophiles are sick I'm sorry. If I blindfold them and do some basic tests with cables, tubes, pure direct mode on or off, etc. they get confused and a little sweaty! I've seen this hundreds of times in our audio test rooms. A lot of audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears! They attach wooden little cubes at the corners of their windows which are connected with phishing line because it improves the soundstage in their living room...I've heard so much BS in my life as a audio technician. If you want stories... I'll have them for you... 😂
Would love to hear them, Marco! The wooden cubes/windows thing is new to me. Have to look that one up!
@TheJoyofVinylRecords listening sessions....Blindfolded tests and people had to compare interlinks...Why blindfolded? Then you can only trust your ears. They heard a difference while we changed nothing! They could swear that they hear such things as instrument seperation and placement of horn sections or violins but we didn't touch the equipment at all....i know this is a rude thing to do but we also wanted to educate them a little bit about cables and the sence or nonsence about them. We try to learn people that experiencing music is subjective for everyone. A lot of high enders fall into a rabit hole of spending lots, lots of money for a 0,01% percent improvement of their system but have not acousticly treated their listening room properly. That's one of the most important things for having a better listening experience . It's not all about upgrading tubes, cables, etc.
I found Gorilla Wood Glue works effectively on Older vinyl. -Get rid of Old dirt in the grooves of older used Vinyl and plays less crackly. Any other brand is hard to get off
There's been a couple folks who swear by it. Must be something to it.
I've owned a high end audio store for decades. Most of our top gear has no tone controls. I lived without them for years. I was wrong, assuming the circuitry for them is done well. It's possible that the problem is your systems not matching the response of the mixing system, different listening levels than it was mixed with or just poor engineering. Sometimes you hear the tone change you want but the fundamental sound isless "pure". If that tonal issue is bad enough, maybe that's worth it. But good tone controls minimize, even eliminate that. Antiskating is everything you said and also can cause mistracking sonically on the inner grooves. 19th Century classical composers didn't give a lot of thought to where their dramatic finale would end on an LP. I also use Wally Tracker but my normal advice is to start at about 1/2 the manufacturers recommendation and move up from there. If the first half of the side sounds better, increase it, if it's the 2nd half, decrease.
One you didn't mention is loudness control, the Fletcher Munson effect. Basically if you're listening at lower levels than what it was mixed, you'll get a different tonal balance since the ear is more sensitive in the mids with the bass dropping in perceived level by quite a lot at times and HF less but there. You can do some of this correctin with tone controls but some of the more forward looking receivers of the 70's made it variable, depending on volume setting. The preamp I use now goes further - you tell the pre what you listening distance is and the sensitivity of your speakers. It then customizes the amount of loudness compensation it applies, again depending on volume setting. It's the most natural compensation of that sort I've ever heard.
Thanks for the practical tip. I tend to think tables that get out of the way, at least for me, start at about $500, but that's just my opinion. Sorry for being so long winded. Hey, I was #1000 on the Likes :-)
Thanks for the great comment, Rick! I forgot about the loudness control. My dad's old unit had that.
I have an Audio Technica AT-LP120XUSB Turntable with an Ortofon Blue Cartridge My Amp is a Sony STRDH190 and My Speakers are the Sony SSCS5 Bookshelf Speakers so I have about $1,000 into my setup and it sounds fantastic
Back in the 90s, in the UK at least, there were people and press alike who said don't play your vinyl twice.. leave it for 24 hours before the next play . the idea wasto cool down the grooves as DJs often caused burn by constantly back cueing the record. some more bad advice was to only play records 'wet', whilst wet play did sound smoother with less surface noise the stylus often filled with gunk and once played wet you could then only ever play your vinyl wet again as playing then dry then sounded awful
That's wild about playing them wet!
That’s bonkers!
Changing amplifiers, needle or speakers and speaker placement acts as tone controls. This is why equipment changes change sound.
Exactly! 🍺
Playing too loud can definitely be harmful to your record or stylus over time, but obviously not for the reason you mentioned.
When bass from the speakers is conducted through your turntable into your tonearm and stylus, you get a feedback loop.
Bass coming from your speakers, picked up by your stylus and coming out of your speakers again.
This results a form of minor but continuous mistracking; your stylus is basically bouncing through the groove ever so slightly.
Do this too often and it WILL cause premature wear on your stylus and records.
This is one of the reasons why turntable vibration isolation is so important!
Sometimes, this feedback loop occurs close to the tonearm resonant frequency, which exacerbates the issue.
In those cases it often means you have to find a cartridge with a different compliance that matches better with the mass of your tonearm.
It can also cause of "woofer pumping"... which in turn exacerbates the problem even further.
Oh yeah and in rare circumstances, you could get a standing wave (also known as room mode) that has its peak at the same distance from the speaker driver as your cartridge is at.
In those cases you get an amplification of another 3dB...
Turntable isolation is key - agreed!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Yes, and proper speaker placement, to reduce those funky room modes.
Not just for the sake of stylus/record longevity, but also to prevent your speakers from sounding boomy at certain spots in the room.
That's why most speakers don't like to be placed right up against the wall or backed into a corner... a speaker with enough space to play is a happy speaker! 😊