Your demos are both good and bad at the same time. Good because you do an excellent job of showcasing sounds. Bad because you always influence me to buy something!!
Great video Simeon! Thanks for showing these sounds with good playing that are some of the few I don't have of IK. I like what you said about everything being on the grid being so prevalent taking alot of the soul and groove away. I will tell you a secret that I know as a veteran studio engineer (if you'd like to hear it) that if you don't know it will completely change your view not just of quantization but even the concept of beat positions at all. So here goes and I hope you appreciate this: There is no such thing as a quarter note position, an eighth note position, no down beat, no up beat, none of it. Bear with me here... Sound is vibration. Vibration only occurs over time. It's not a still picture. That means if you hit a note, lets say a bass guitar on beat one of a measure. That bass note only happens after, NOT ON, beat one. You hit the note then It vibrates over time got it? Ok so you could say well, if everyone hits their note on beat one, the kick drum, a snare, a guitar etc then the position of beat one DOES exist AFTER but no it still does not. How we perceive vibration which includes frequency, amplitude, and timbre takes time to develop both within the actual wave and our perception of it. In a nutshell all sounds SWELL in. (even straight synthesizer waves appear to, which is weird I know) Let's use that bass guitar note as an example, baAHm. I tried to do my best to illustrate it there. A bass guitar note takes quite a while to swell in to its peak volume. Just listen to it, even in your mind, it's easy. Now lets use a snare as an example. It sounds more like TAAaap. There is more energy in the front of the snare, and the snare develops into its peak vibration much faster. That means if hit on the same "beat" the snare would always sound earlier. it's actually achieving what we perceive as sound quiet abit earlier than the bass guitar. It's one of the reasons fast attack compression sounds so good on snare drums. It's pushing down the front of the snare, and making the snare actually feel later. You can also slow attack compress a kick (accentuating the front) and it will make the kick feel earlier. Imagine this now, all sounds have their own unique "swell" or development time, even different notes of the same instrument. In general low frequency sounds develop later, because their wave cycles are longer and so it takes longer for them to acheive the same amount of cycles as higher frequencies. This part gets a little hairy, because waves are actually stacked with harmonics using the fundamental as a carrier... that's not the important part though. The main thing is listen, to a piano note, listen to a bass note, a kick, a hihat etc. All of them take a different amount of time to swell in. That means beat positions are a guideline, but the actual note starts are a perceived grey area some time afterward and depending on the instrument and note, and there are hundreds of different ones based on that. How does this relate to quantizing and the grid? Let's use a a keyboard "strings" patch as an example. Those have a very obvious swell. Even if you never thought about this a day in your life as a keyboard player you know if you play those strings on the down beat, they are going to feel late. You can't quantize them. It's a feel thing, you play them a little early based on when you want that swell to happen. Live players, well good live players all do this subconsciously. They all just listen to the other instruments and play in time with them. When you quantize you are actually knocking notes that may have been played in an "in time" perception to out of time. That's because you are moving the very tip of the note (where no sound is) to the same position for every sound. That makes all their swell times be out of time with each other. You can help this with compression, but it's not the same as just good natural feel. Some play early, some play late, some play earlier on some beats and not others for "feel". They listen to the other sounds and play with them, they don't listen to grid positions, but even if you are playing to a click or gridded material it's still possible to play early or late on some notes and not others just because you want to (or do it on accident) I'm not anti-grid and quantizing btw. I'm a keyboard player for 43 years and make electronic music combined with live performance playing myself. I like to play feel oriented un-quantized parts over quantized drums and other instruments. I like when you have a rigid timing structure, and play with that timing on top. It makes those parts really interesting to me. When I'm mixing a song, I use compression to get all my quantized parts feeling in time with each other. This came out longer then I expected, but I really enjoy your videos and wanted to share something with you the way you do with us. If you never thought about this before, you will realize that music is a dance of inter-related swells talking to each other. I call these swells "the bloom" You will hear in songs when they sound timed well and ones where they don't. Once you are aware and hear this you will not be able to un-hear it. Sorry. lol. Thank you, Adam
@@PraiseTracks Also as a side note, you can use compression, and or synth programming to get sounds to have a swell length of a quarter note, 8th, 16th, 32nd, or longer like a half bar, etc. but I just do what feels good. It depends on how "on top of the beat or forward" that sound should be and what its doing already. Think of this: as a piano player, you know how crappy playing most chords with your fingers hitting all at the same time is. You know how you "roll" your chords. Some you roll fast, some slow, but you do it to a good timing. Let that sink in for a second. When you roll a chord, where in time does "the beat" fall? It's an artistic thing but it's probably not the very first note. That's why quantizing kills piano playing, all those timing nuances are gone. You can use "a non-quantize region" around the grid, but it's just not the same. There is beauty in the flow you create with all the notes and how they inter-relate. The best piano fixing, is by hand in the piano roll or even better, comping the way vocals are done. (piecing together a multi-take performance if something close to perfection is required) Alright, I hope you find this interesting and thanks again.
Thanks for this rundown! You would think IK would have something similar, but you have done a wonderful job going through the different keyboard models. Great playing too!
The C70P sounds like a nice hybrid. It cuts thru more in the midrange but still has some retained body in the sound without sounding cloudy. Melodies sound more pronounced
Beautiful Simeon, as always. IK Multimedia seems really underrated (or at least quiet in their marketing compared to competitors). I picked up a great bargain over Easter, so I now have all of these keys to play with (but far less well than you! ;o)
I just had the chance to see this one. I am amazed by the Shipwrecked Piano. Thank you very much sir! With other IK SamplyTank videos, you will be the reason I buy Sampletank :) Kind regards
Yes, it was really smart of IK Multimedia going to other sound designers to create libraries for SampleTank, it opens the door wide for new and creative possibilities. Just so you know, the expansions can be used in the FREE SampleTank 4 CS. Thanks so much for watching.
Absolutely, I loved The Sky’s The Limit project, and it does not get much better than the Live Experience version of Dance Children Dance, amazing. Thanks so much for watching.
Oh absolutely! I was able to see him at one of his solo Live Experience concerts and when he did Love Around The World. He pulled me out of the audience and I sang a part of The Sky Is The Limit. Wonderful experiences.
Awesome demo.Always please watching you play and hear your takes on these things. How do you compare this to spitfire Albions, originals and also the IK mallets to spitfire's Ricotti Mallets?Thanks in advance.
If you could compare them, it would be similar to Spitfire Audio Originals. I am not familiar with the Spitfire Mallets. The IK ones tend to go into a sound design, cinematic direction. Thanks for the kind support.
@@PraiseTracks Thanks for the response.Can you consider these paid add ons are unique to the instruments included in sampletank and not just a product of "sound design" of an already existing instruments in the base product(sampletank)?
Yes, these are all new samples. I think it is such a great idea for IK to bring in third party sound designers to supply this new content as it brings fresh sounds and perspectives.
God bless! Lovely chords & playing! Thanks for that Leon groove-Dance ! I'm looking for the song-Just to know Him is to love Him.has a blues beat to it,I wonder if it's by Leon.BTW do these tones have a DX tine sound by any chance? Cinekinetik has some ambient sounds, good for contemporary worship I guess.
I saw Leon at one of his "LIVE Experience" concerts and it was the most instrumental thing that inspired me the most. I actually got pulled out of the audience and sang with him, fun times! Regarding the DX, no these expansions focus on the more traditional electromechanical keyboards. There is actually a few free FM (DX7) type of virtual instruments out there. I will try and see if I can find some more information on those.
@@PraiseTracks Oh wow ! What an honor to hang out with him ! You’re an amazing musician too! A mighty flow when you play. I wish you can do keyboard lessons on-line ! I got both the packs mentioned on your video. Gospel Musicians have a wonderful FM Tines pack too. Even have Soectrasonics now but found the list of tones quite limited. Looking for user tones. Thanks for all you do! - Triumphinchrist
👨🔧SOUND PROBLEM SOLVED (at least for me 😏) : For Cinekinetik and Elektromagnetik you need at least ST4 version 4.1.4!!! Otherwise no sound will come even from loaded instrument. Check "Settings -> Info" which version you have installed and if it`s lower, you need to reinstall from the Product manager. No need to reinstall sounds; it even keeps the file paths saved. Tea out! 🖐🎤
Did I hear it correctly that there are no release (key-off) samples for the Mark 73? In that case, I feel IK’s statement that this instrument is “deep sampled” is a quite a bit exaggerated. ;)
Your question had me a little worried at first, and so I just loaded the Rhodes 73 and checked out the editing screen. It does show that there is a layer of "Release" samples so that is very good to know. Thanks so much for watching and providing some feedback. It not only helps myself but I know other viewers will appreciate the additional info as well. All the best!
does anyone know how to properly install and get cinekinetik libraries to work? I've been trying for over a month, following all the instructions to the letter. Nothing seems to get it to work. It loads, but no sounds will come through
David, I am so sorry you are having problems with this. Are you able to hear any sound from other SampleTank libraries? Also, is this happening using the Standalone or the VST in a DAW?
Oh yes, very cool! I never know what a sound might trigger and always find is so fascinating. All of the notes and phrases are in there, and all it takes is that familiar sound to bring them to the surface. Thanks so much for watching. All the best.
You played that shipwrecked piano so beautifully
Your demos are both good and bad at the same time. Good because you do an excellent job of showcasing sounds. Bad because you always influence me to buy something!!
😎 Thanks so much, I am so glad you are enjoying the channel.
Great video Simeon! Thanks for showing these sounds with good playing that are some of the few I don't have of IK. I like what you said about everything being on the grid being so prevalent taking alot of the soul and groove away. I will tell you a secret that I know as a veteran studio engineer (if you'd like to hear it) that if you don't know it will completely change your view not just of quantization but even the concept of beat positions at all. So here goes and I hope you appreciate this:
There is no such thing as a quarter note position, an eighth note position, no down beat, no up beat, none of it. Bear with me here... Sound is vibration. Vibration only occurs over time. It's not a still picture. That means if you hit a note, lets say a bass guitar on beat one of a measure. That bass note only happens after, NOT ON, beat one. You hit the note then It vibrates over time got it? Ok so you could say well, if everyone hits their note on beat one, the kick drum, a snare, a guitar etc then the position of beat one DOES exist AFTER but no it still does not. How we perceive vibration which includes frequency, amplitude, and timbre takes time to develop both within the actual wave and our perception of it. In a nutshell all sounds SWELL in. (even straight synthesizer waves appear to, which is weird I know)
Let's use that bass guitar note as an example, baAHm. I tried to do my best to illustrate it there. A bass guitar note takes quite a while to swell in to its peak volume. Just listen to it, even in your mind, it's easy. Now lets use a snare as an example. It sounds more like TAAaap. There is more energy in the front of the snare, and the snare develops into its peak vibration much faster. That means if hit on the same "beat" the snare would always sound earlier. it's actually achieving what we perceive as sound quiet abit earlier than the bass guitar. It's one of the reasons fast attack compression sounds so good on snare drums. It's pushing down the front of the snare, and making the snare actually feel later. You can also slow attack compress a kick (accentuating the front) and it will make the kick feel earlier. Imagine this now, all sounds have their own unique "swell" or development time, even different notes of the same instrument. In general low frequency sounds develop later, because their wave cycles are longer and so it takes longer for them to acheive the same amount of cycles as higher frequencies. This part gets a little hairy, because waves are actually stacked with harmonics using the fundamental as a carrier... that's not the important part though. The main thing is listen, to a piano note, listen to a bass note, a kick, a hihat etc. All of them take a different amount of time to swell in. That means beat positions are a guideline, but the actual note starts are a perceived grey area some time afterward and depending on the instrument and note, and there are hundreds of different ones based on that.
How does this relate to quantizing and the grid? Let's use a a keyboard "strings" patch as an example. Those have a very obvious swell. Even if you never thought about this a day in your life as a keyboard player you know if you play those strings on the down beat, they are going to feel late. You can't quantize them. It's a feel thing, you play them a little early based on when you want that swell to happen. Live players, well good live players all do this subconsciously. They all just listen to the other instruments and play in time with them. When you quantize you are actually knocking notes that may have been played in an "in time" perception to out of time. That's because you are moving the very tip of the note (where no sound is) to the same position for every sound. That makes all their swell times be out of time with each other. You can help this with compression, but it's not the same as just good natural feel. Some play early, some play late, some play earlier on some beats and not others for "feel". They listen to the other sounds and play with them, they don't listen to grid positions, but even if you are playing to a click or gridded material it's still possible to play early or late on some notes and not others just because you want to (or do it on accident)
I'm not anti-grid and quantizing btw. I'm a keyboard player for 43 years and make electronic music combined with live performance playing myself. I like to play feel oriented un-quantized parts over quantized drums and other instruments. I like when you have a rigid timing structure, and play with that timing on top. It makes those parts really interesting to me. When I'm mixing a song, I use compression to get all my quantized parts feeling in time with each other.
This came out longer then I expected, but I really enjoy your videos and wanted to share something with you the way you do with us. If you never thought about this before, you will realize that music is a dance of inter-related swells talking to each other. I call these swells "the bloom" You will hear in songs when they sound timed well and ones where they don't. Once you are aware and hear this you will not be able to un-hear it. Sorry. lol.
Thank you,
Adam
Adam, what amazing and insightful feedback. It is going to take me a little while to process all of this, thanks so much for sharing. All the best.
@@PraiseTracks Also as a side note, you can use compression, and or synth programming to get sounds to have a swell length of a quarter note, 8th, 16th, 32nd, or longer like a half bar, etc. but I just do what feels good. It depends on how "on top of the beat or forward" that sound should be and what its doing already. Think of this: as a piano player, you know how crappy playing most chords with your fingers hitting all at the same time is. You know how you "roll" your chords. Some you roll fast, some slow, but you do it to a good timing. Let that sink in for a second. When you roll a chord, where in time does "the beat" fall? It's an artistic thing but it's probably not the very first note. That's why quantizing kills piano playing, all those timing nuances are gone. You can use "a non-quantize region" around the grid, but it's just not the same. There is beauty in the flow you create with all the notes and how they inter-relate. The best piano fixing, is by hand in the piano roll or even better, comping the way vocals are done. (piecing together a multi-take performance if something close to perfection is required)
Alright, I hope you find this interesting and thanks again.
Thanks for this rundown! You would think IK would have something similar, but you have done a wonderful job going through the different keyboard models. Great playing too!
Thank you so much, I am glad you enjoyed watching. Joyfully!
Grande músico! Foi uma viagem ouvir cada som, e lembrar das canções clássicas de cada timbre. Sucesso sempre. Obrigado Simeon🎹🎶👍🏻🤩
My pleasure, thanks so much for your kind words.
The C70P sounds like a nice hybrid. It cuts thru more in the midrange but still has some retained body in the sound without sounding cloudy. Melodies sound more pronounced
Beautiful Simeon, as always. IK Multimedia seems really underrated (or at least quiet in their marketing compared to competitors). I picked up a great bargain over Easter, so I now have all of these keys to play with (but far less well than you! ;o)
Just a very good demonstration of the kind of sounds you can find in these libraries. Thx
My pleasure, so glad you enjoyed watching.
I just had the chance to see this one. I am amazed by the Shipwrecked Piano. Thank you very much sir! With other IK SamplyTank videos, you will be the reason I buy Sampletank :) Kind regards
Yes, it was really smart of IK Multimedia going to other sound designers to create libraries for SampleTank, it opens the door wide for new and creative possibilities. Just so you know, the expansions can be used in the FREE SampleTank 4 CS. Thanks so much for watching.
Checking these now when there is the 25 for 1 group sale on Ik Multimedia site. This is helpful. Thanks!
My pleasure. I am so glad that they are doing more library expansions for SampleTank 4, these are really nice. Thanks so much for watching.
+1 for the Leon Patillo reference … big fan!
Absolutely, I loved The Sky’s The Limit project, and it does not get much better than the Live Experience version of Dance Children Dance, amazing.
Thanks so much for watching.
@@PraiseTracks Did you ever get a chance to see Leon live?
Oh absolutely! I was able to see him at one of his solo Live Experience concerts and when he did Love Around The World. He pulled me out of the audience and I sang a part of The Sky Is The Limit. Wonderful experiences.
Nice sounds there Simeon
I think the sound sources combined with IK’s superb effects really bring things together here. Thanks so much for watching. All the best.
Awesome demo.Always please watching you play and hear your takes on these things. How do you compare this to spitfire Albions, originals and also the IK mallets to spitfire's Ricotti Mallets?Thanks in advance.
If you could compare them, it would be similar to Spitfire Audio Originals. I am not familiar with the Spitfire Mallets. The IK ones tend to go into a sound design, cinematic direction. Thanks for the kind support.
@@PraiseTracks Thanks for the response.Can you consider these paid add ons are unique to the instruments included in sampletank and not just a product of "sound design" of an already existing instruments in the base product(sampletank)?
Yes, these are all new samples. I think it is such a great idea for IK to bring in third party sound designers to supply this new content as it brings fresh sounds and perspectives.
Little River Band
God bless! Lovely chords & playing! Thanks for that Leon groove-Dance ! I'm looking for the song-Just to know Him is to love Him.has a blues beat to it,I wonder if it's by Leon.BTW do these tones have a DX tine sound by any chance? Cinekinetik has some ambient sounds, good for contemporary worship I guess.
I saw Leon at one of his "LIVE Experience" concerts and it was the most instrumental thing that inspired me the most. I actually got pulled out of the audience and sang with him, fun times!
Regarding the DX, no these expansions focus on the more traditional electromechanical keyboards. There is actually a few free FM (DX7) type of virtual instruments out there. I will try and see if I can find some more information on those.
@@PraiseTracks Oh wow ! What an honor to hang out with him ! You’re an amazing musician too! A mighty flow when you play. I wish you can do keyboard lessons on-line ! I got both the packs mentioned on your video. Gospel Musicians have a wonderful FM Tines pack too. Even have Soectrasonics now but found the list of tones quite limited. Looking for user tones. Thanks for all you do! - Triumphinchrist
👨🔧SOUND PROBLEM SOLVED (at least for me 😏) : For Cinekinetik and Elektromagnetik you need at least ST4 version 4.1.4!!! Otherwise no sound will come even from loaded instrument. Check "Settings -> Info" which version you have installed and if it`s lower, you need to reinstall from the Product manager. No need to reinstall sounds; it even keeps the file paths saved.
Tea out! 🖐🎤
Yes, thanks for sharing the great feedback. All the best.
Did I hear it correctly that there are no release (key-off) samples for the Mark 73?
In that case, I feel IK’s statement that this instrument is “deep sampled” is a quite a bit exaggerated. ;)
Your question had me a little worried at first, and so I just loaded the Rhodes 73 and checked out the editing screen. It does show that there is a layer of "Release" samples so that is very good to know.
Thanks so much for watching and providing some feedback. It not only helps myself but I know other viewers will appreciate the additional info as well.
All the best!
Can i have all if them in Sample Tank Max or Syntronik 3 Max version?
They would play in the SampleTank player. You can also open Syntronik patches in SampleTank as well.
does anyone know how to properly install and get cinekinetik libraries to work? I've been trying for over a month, following all the instructions to the letter. Nothing seems to get it to work. It loads, but no sounds will come through
David, I am so sorry you are having problems with this. Are you able to hear any sound from other SampleTank libraries? Also, is this happening using the Standalone or the VST in a DAW?
24:50 is cinekinetik or magnetic?
It is Elektromagnetic using the CP-70. Thanks for watching.
Tears For Fears 44:02
Oh yes, very cool! I never know what a sound might trigger and always find is so fascinating.
All of the notes and phrases are in there, and all it takes is that familiar sound to bring them to the surface.
Thanks so much for watching. All the best.