I certainly plan on giving it a retry some time from now, but honestly this arc felt lackluster compared to Moro, though less a waste of time I see this arc as a lot of set up for what may come next
Theory: Elec is down, heaters are with Frieza, they had 73, so now Frieza has 73. See where I'm going at with this? Frieza might use his abilities. That combined with black Frieza? Unstoppable!
Actually, I reread it already a few days ago and I have to say that it definitely elevated my opinion of the arc by quite a bit. Your point about the fighting being too detailed and rather looking like storyboards and less like panels made for a manga pretty much nails it's main flaw for me. However, I realized that it's thematically way deeper than I initially thought and far from the mindless entertainment many people say DBS is (In fact, I think that the last two arcs actually improved on this issue). I guess Toyotaro's style just takes away from it a bit. Reading it in one go makes it almost feels as if watching an anime rather than reading a mange because of that (I bet people will really like the animated version a lot more. There are many great action moments imo). The Bardock flashback makes sense in a way that it helps Goku realize that he should somehow stick to his own nature and convictions (aka in a life and death battle, what else should matter besides victory), which Gas isn't really capable of by comparison. I've never been a huge fan of Bardock (rather neutral) so that entire controversy didn't really affect me and I got along much better on reread realizing the concept behind this flashback in general. On the other hand, I'd agree here that it wasn't really necessary to make a full on flashback but I understand that it helped splitting up the fighting a bit. Then again, did it really help? I guess if Granolah's internal struggle, which resulted in his "I don't want revenge anymore" would have been focused on a bit more while Goku and Vegeta fought Gas would have helped the climax immensely. As for Frieza showing up, the oracle fish didn't recognize Gas back then when Goku took him to Whis so from that moment onward the ending was sort of foreshadowed. Don't know if that's Captain Hindsight doing his work here. I really like Frieza here because even though it's quite abrupt he demonstrates that he attained a power through training and work rather than relying on these Dragonballs, which bit Granolah and especially Gas in the ass. Overall, I really like the arc even though I acknowledge that it definitel has it's flaws. I'd personally put it #3 as for my manga arc ranking with the Moro and Goku Black arc ranking above it.
My biggest complaint with the saga is that it felt too long. They were clearly trying to stretch the saga until Super Hero’s debut. I really enjoyed it for what it is though
@@trashmouth2020 people only say it’s long or dragged because of the monthly waits. A lot of the chapters was just action with little story progression.
I did liked Granolah, especially in his fights against Goku and Vegeta. That said, because Gas became a main enemy, Granolah was shoved to the sidelines and didn't get much focus. It's not really him that's bad, but rather the writing in the second half of this arc not doing him any service
I actually like the Granolah arc and Bardock having a significant role in his survival. The fights with Goku and Vegeta vs Granolah and their evolution during the fight with their techniques is something very cool to see. Though Gas was not much of a memorable villain, I do like that he had a history with Bardock which influenced his fight with the Saiyans in the present. The arc will only be a bad one if Granolah never appears in DB again or if his relationship with Goku does not get exploited.
i have to disagree heavily I really hate this ark there is nothing good its just horrible in all. the whole bardock wish made the ark unsavable for me.
Agreed imo this arc had the strongest themes that were connected to each character out of any db arc ever. I wish more people understood gas. he’s a good underrated villain
@@aqua6166 definitely a dbs hater lol. bardock wished for goku and raditz to escape planet vegeta. In the broly movie raditz even says it was “lucky” they didn’t respond to frieza’s call. It showed that Goku’s entire journey got started because of the dragon balls, it makes the series even better.
@@leultrainstinct406 the wish ruins dragon ball such a bs wish that ruins the low class saiyan overcoming the odd on his own ability and help of friends too. not just some wish and making him Japanese super man in his origin. its sad seeing the worst ark in all of dragon ball ruining dragon ball in its entirety. and no I don't hate dbs the manga was good until the top ark when it not just dropped the ball it just gave a big f you to anyone who enjoyed the anime top like me. it was sad. also.i want the manga to be good its just the last 3 arks have sucked.
@@aqua6166 I don't think the wish is what people think it is. DB is not known for their good stories, but that wish seems to be a bit much even for DB standards. And there is actually a lot of good thing in the arc, but the people focus more on the flaws. I focus on both and I still like the arc.
I very much hope that Granolah turns up again later instead of just dying in the background I liked him as a character, even if his arc wasn't great after a certain point
you do realize that bardock was proof that universe 7 Saiyans were destined to go the way of the universe 6 Saiyans? if Frieza hadn't done what he did when he did it, bardock would have kept going on missions and zenkaiing his way to Super Saiyan, while simultaneously having a positive social impact just from the growing influence of doing so
@@FlyingwithFire redundant statement as I made no such claim. I'm not writing some dissertation on the personality differences between bardock and other Saiyans, you know what TF I meant.
@@kingmasterlord you just inferred that he would make a positive social impact meaning they would become peaceful hence why they said symbols of peace.
@@aqua6166 he was talking about the super high power levels. The positive effect was influence in Saiyan society, which would create a civilization of saiyans who actively chase zenkais to become the leader, and thus a threat to freiza. Barsock wouldn't be a reformist, but he would be emblematic of the sheer potential growth in saiyans.
If Granolah returns, I hope its in a sense of them hiring him to hunt someone down or something. Not as a fighter but as a bounty hunter. Maybe... Goku and Vegeta go looking for the 10 year Room of Spirit and Time to destroy it so Freeza can't use it anymore but they disappear, cue either Gohan and Piccolo or even Goten and Trunks to seek out Granolah to help them track down Goku and Vegeta and figure out what happened by using Granolah's underground links to stay off of Freeza's radar. A sort of... More cloak and dagger saga as opposed to big opposing powers clashing kind of saga. OR, hear me out: Mix in the Hirudegarn story. Tweak it a bit and have it so it's a prison made out of different relics (that aren't Dragon Balls and thus harder to track down) and have the Dragon team hire Granolah to help them find the relics. Maybe have the villain throw in a lie how the thing they're unlocking could give Granolah back his lost years due to Torombo's wish.
@@MaxiemumKarnage They did it for Broly, why not do the same with other cool concepts from the Movies? Tapion is a character a lot of people like, Hirudegarn has an amazing design (well, at least its first form) that you can pluck straight out of the movie, it'd be a win really.
It's crazy to think that almost 2 years could be summed up and reviewed in 20 minutes. I feel like that says a lot. The only other month-to-month Manga I read was Attack on Titan and I didn't have the patience for it at the time. But I remember waaaay more happening to make it worth being month-to-month.
The arc definitely had moments I enjoyed. With how goku was using instant transmission to travel the universe while he fought gas. Also liked how goku unlocked TUI. Also seeing bardock beat some ass was pretty dope.
For me, there are 3 main issues with this arc: 1. Vegeta not being given any win AGAIN. I believe Vegeta should've defeated Granolah in a fair fight and then we would introduce Gas as a ultimately antagonist. It wouldn't have been Vegeta's winning the final battle but his own personal win, against an opponent that Goku lost to, may I add. If Super Hero had that small victory then we could've had that. 2. Gas as an antagonist. While Granolah had a great introduction and his personal conflict and backstory were established before the fight, Gas didn't have that which is sad because his final moments and seeing the "strongest in the universe" power more as a curse was great and really dark. 3. Pacing. As I mentioned already a couple of times, I feel like they're going with the wrong pace for the monthly manga and as a result this arc feels way better when read once finished but when experiencing it monthly, it dragged so much.
I find point 3 less critical; this is a fighting manga, I'm cool with a fair amount of fighting committed to it. But I do agree with the former two, namely because the conflicts we are being shown don't really factor into the story at all. Vegeta being able to best Granola by coming to terms with his survivor's guilt and undermining Granola's revenge would've been nice. Show us both visually and narratively that despite his greater strength, he just can't seem to hate Vegeta strongly enough to commit and gets defeated, only for Gas to show up and literally twist the entire dynamic again in the way Dragon Ball used to do, by introducing narrative wild cards to avoid the story becoming too stable. Likewise, I don't really feel we spend enough time with Gas and Granola together to establish their troubled rivalry. We get it alluded to, but we never see them getting into each other's hair, or aggravating one another. He's just like anime Jiren that he's stoic and relatively quiet until he gets his wish. However, finally discovering his own identity thanks to said wish, only for it to cost him his life, was horrific and entertaining. I kinda feel that one way of doing that would've been to introduce both characters sooner, like in the Moro arc, show them responding to the criminals and fighting together, but show that despite his potential that Gas can't ever seem to get ahead of the merc that his brother hires and seems to favour. Show Elec being that manipulator sooner by him intentionally giving outsiders a better shot at glory to try and force the "young" Gas to be a little more ambitious, only to evolve into using him as a weapon. Likewise, we don't really get to learn what Granola really loves, makes it harder to see him threatened. Needless to say, I just kinda feel that because Granola isn't an established character like, say, Trunks, we don't really have that same investment. Though I must confess, I was much more invested with this than most prior arcs because I wasn't sure whether Granola would make it. However, I feel like it was too soon for him to just drop his vendetta against Freeza because now he has no narrative conflict to keep him from being proactive.
Like you said, Moro and Granolah arcs had their problems, but I still liked their premises. I hope the anime can fix the problems of those arcs in future.
Granolah is my favourite thing about this arc. I just wish he didn't take so long to see through the heaters' lies. I do like Gaz as well but it did get annoying when he kept getting up month after month while the other heaters didn't do a thing.
There was no way he’d be able to know And in his eyes, they saved him and his only father figure when they were struggling to survive That’s why it’s more tragic that they manipulated him this whole time But at the same time they were being manipulated by frieza so karma
Granolah and his arc were amazing! The added lore and expanded universe. Going into some history of saiyans namekians and frieza. Colourful new characters. New forms that are actually kinda cool conceptwise and not just palet swaps. BARDOCK?! Only thing I didnt like is that it took them 17 battles to beat Gas. When they animate this it's gonna be goku vs frieza x1000
I really liked the Granolah arc. I think a lot of people misunderstood his role and view him as a villain or antagonist. But he's the protagonist and I like how his story is a blend of both Goku's and Vegeta's. The character writing was good, and great by Dragonball standards
@@Strider315 I'm getting real sick of that response. if accepting everything wholeheartedly with no negative marks, no criticism, is what makes a true fan then I'm glad to be just a be casual. if not even lower than that.
@@kevinmooney9361 There was no criticism. They just said my opinions are trash. That’s not criticism, that is just being a hater. I’m really tired of that response of people just saying that’s trash, so yeah I am a true Dragonball fan compared to them.
A shame they didn't give Granolah a sense of honor after everything he put the Sayians through he would opt to help them in dealing with Frieza maybe use the remaining time he has to prepare. While he isn't out for vegence, fine but Frieza is very much an active and present threat, he could return to planet Cereal on the drop of a hat and do one of his trade mark tactics. He can't eaxctly be at peace from that.
Fullmetal Alchemist was a monthly manga. Never got bad because of it. Every month were always 60 pages of pure glory. Granolah's arc isn't as bad as it seems when read in one sit, with great moments, but it got dragged really bad at times. Maybe it can be improved in the anime.
I feel like the release schedule really messed this arc up, more so than Moro. It's probably fine if binged all at once, but the huge gaps between releases made it take forever
I don't know why people got upset whenever Goku took an active role in the saga. He's one of the main characters in it along with Vegeta and Granolah, was he supposed to just stand there and do nothing the entire time? At least he got some character development.
Because fans are kinda tired of Goku being the lead or hero to save the day in the final fight. While this is definitely one of the more active roles he's had since the beginning of Z and yes, he got development, we want other people to shine harder and get the major Win or alike. I'm glad Goku is growing but there are still others who need more development than Goku still.
I think it's more like how people think that he was forced in due to the Bardock flashback. Nowadays people prefer Goku sticking to a supportive role like in the later half of Z than being up front.
I think the main complaint at least from me is I know Goku is the main character of this series. And that's okay. I've always been okay with that, but the way Goku is written nowadays? The less I see of him the better tbh. He's become so uninteresting that I rather stick with other characters.
Since the end of the Cell Saga they've been teasing us with a DB where Goku isn't the main character and literally never once have they made good on that promise.
Maybe when DBS comes back for TV, maybe Toei and Toyotaro/Toriyama will take some feedback/reviews into account and fix/change up the things that held back this arc. It probably won’t happen, but one can hope
I couldn’t get past the fact that 73 survived. The treatment of vegeta, the trashing of the forms and training. How Granolah has no repercussions and how gas was thrown away. He didn’t deserve it. The list goes on
An easy fix for Torumbo would be to give it a finite amount of wishes before the Dragonballs break. And I always thought of the two Dragonballs as a lock and key situation
This video really sums up my feelings about this arc that I haven't seen anyone else point out in their content. Thanks for bringing attention to some of the glaring issues 👍🏼
I loved the ending. I lost it when Freeza showed up, I knew he was gonna bring the pain. We've all been expecting Freeza to do something since the end of Super, and this is it.
I actually just burned through the Super Manga (post ToP) to get to the end of the chapter. So it worked to get me to read it. All at once, it didn’t feel overlong.
It's sad that Vegeta and Goku got a new forms in this arc that make them stronger as the fight goes on but unfortunately it was no match against black Frieza which got one shotted.
Can we please all just clear out that "Mastered Ultra Instinct" is just the fan name, as it is simply "Complete UI" rather than Mastered. I feel that the community name really hurts what the form truly is and means for the character.
I guess the anime is going to have to eventually cover this arc... Which makes me worried I won't be able to look forward to this arc at all when it comes out.
Remember the Anime was never adapting the manga in it's original incarnation. They were two different adaptations working off the same notes from Toryiama, I'm hoping it stays that way.
You know, how powerful characters are getting in dragonball is "absolute madness". At this rate they'll end up so powerful that they can't even blink, because the shockwave it'll cause will destroy the entire multiverse.
Vegeta’s character motivation needed to be elaborated on (did he actually want to defeat Granolah or just teach him a lesson?) in order to explain why he got a new form and still lost. Otherwise, critics will be left thinking that nobody but Goku is allowed to win. I cannot gush harder over the fight choreography. Need something brutal? Two handed slams, or instincts-unleashed Gas planting a Dumbass Tree and shoving it back out a kilometer away. Need something slick? Charge up your shot while waiting for your opponent to surface from a pond. Or have clones attack from the sides so when the opponent spreads his arms out to attack, the real you goes right for his open chest. Need something cool? Energy swords, maces, daggers, thwomps. Want a surprisingly goofy attack? Goku gets hit by a train. TWICE. And since it was all so easy to follow, it could be easily animated.
@@MasakoX not that I can blame anyone who says it. The arc just felt it was just dragging on and on, losing its focus halfway through. It just felt trying to make the arc longer without trying to make it stay good.
As for the 'storyboarding' style as you called it, Usually a series anime is meant as nothing more than an advertisement for the mana, so it's honestly refreshing to see a style that makes the manga act as an advertisement for the anime instead. I think He wants you to think 'oh man, this is going to look super cool animated, I can't wait to see it' which might annoy manga only readers a bit, but hey, you guys have had it too good for too long *eyes narrow* nah but really, I do get that vibe, that they really want to go all-in on the anime.
I was waiting for Freeza to show up, probably as early as the first fight with gas, and if we didn't get any Freeza at all it would have felt that we were blue balled.
I agree that this could be better reading it in one go but at the same time i don't feel like reading it again any time soon same as the Moro Saga, except i really like the diversity of places in Moro saga and Vegeta role in Yardrat. The only thing i didn't like about the Moro arc was Goku stealing the win and Meerus surviving vs this arc which i didn't like that everything felt average conflict vs a single dude, in a single place and that's it, the end. Basically this felt more like a in between arc to what is coming but it took to long to end. I would say Moro was Namek Arc This is the Androids part, and now everyone is waiting for the Cell part (not literally)
this is certainly a messy saga! I wouldn't say it's bad, nor would I say it's amazing. it's a fine middle ground sitting just under the goku black arc IMO. I feel like it started off well but then went slowly down hill when UE hit the ground
MasakoX I missed a lot of your videos cause of following One Piece, but Dragon Ball been always a hype for me, I cannot judge it for plot holes or logic behind it because it would never compel the complexity of other mangas (specially some Seinen). But I love your content and your effort innit. Thx for uploading all content I've missed \\mod I love also and missed your dub in Dragon Ball, you're amazing, keep up the good work and effort of all the years passed and those to come.
I prefer it when you review the chapters like you did before chapter 85, I love the breakdowns and jokes inside the sequence, to put it simply I prefer the long summaries.
Something I missed from the review process were the videos where you made 5 predictions for the upcoming chapter and seeing what you got right and wrong the prior time!
I always knew something like Black Frieza was going to happen sooner or later so that was probably the only time i felt something from this saga aside from Ultra Ego. I still don't like the "i trained for 4 months and became a god" thing, but since they have introduced it, they should just go with to go with it now and i'm kinda glad they did. It would have been extremely stupid for Frieza to NOT lurk in the shadows and train for other months or years now that he knows about Ultra Instinct, Broly and even guys like Jiren and the gods. Of course he would try to surpass them and rule above everyone, he knew he was vulnerable and outclassed before and needed to get stronger. Frieza is arrogant but not stupid. It's still kinda stupid for him to just spare Goku and Vegeta, but it's not too out of character and...the plot needs to happen, he could have just ended the entire franchise in that chapter if he wanted to honestly.
Honestly, Granolah reminded me too much of Eren Jeager (until the final chapter): Too wrapped up in his anger & goals to see that his actions *might* not actually solve the real problems, & writing off anyone who doesn't agree with him.
For goodness sake, Monaito hypnosis is not an asspull! He did it in the Bardock Flashback! Also, he's a namekian! who cares they literally do whatever they want.
I completely agree with it feeling like a anime storyboard. It's almost the opposite problem Oda has in One Piece. One Piece is crammed in and hard to follow both visually and story wise sometimes too, Super Is super easy to follow but nothing much actually happens in terms of story.
Been on and off keeping track of the manga through you, now that is done(for now) I might give it a look. Moro seemed to be pretty interesting, and people seem to be very divided on Granolah. I needs sees it for myself.
I enjoyed Granolah, but it suffered even more than Moro did from the week-to-week format. It really does feel like one of the filler arcs from the original run, a la Garlic Jr. or Goku's post-Baba training. I will say that the highs are Exceptional™, Black Freeza, Ultra Ego and Gas as a villain are honestly some top tier content as far as Super goes, but it just. Didn't justify the length. I will say though that the whole "this ruined DB!" thing is ridiculous. This arc isn't horrible, it's just mediocre with some great highs. So it's just another arc of Super, actually.
I like the idea of an old rival of Bardock's coming back to fight the son. That's a classic character motivation and often a good one. I'm also not against Gas being an important figure in Bardock's life. The problem is Toyotaro had the concept, not the execution. Gas has one fight with Bardock, and we barely learn anything about either character from it. If it were a real rivalry, something that defined these two (at least to each other), it'd place real importance on Goku being involved. Sadly, it can be argued Granolah got in the way. Gas is *his* rival, not Bardock's, not Goku's. Granolah has ties to Bardock, but he couldn't be too close, otherwise he'd never fight Goku and Vegeta. He needs to fight the heroes though, or else the fans won't respect his power (i.e. no one would believe he's as strong as the saiyans unless we see him fight them). I think the Bardock angle was doomed from the start. It's frustrating because it's also the heart of this plot, so you can't just "fix" anything. It's more like it needs to be start over from the beginning. That said, being a shorter arc would resolve most of its issues. Gas and Granolah wouldn't need to feel like more significant facets in the lives of Frieza or the saiyans if we didn't have to follow their journey for over a year.
Lets be real. Who wanted Goku to focus on Ultra Instinct AGAIN for the 3rd arc in a row? After being able to turn into the Mastered State at will. Then we have the True State...which looks unappealing. Would've looked cooler if it was the aura silhouette from the Anime of when Goku first went MUI Gas was...not all that interesting as a main arc antagonist. Dare i say, worse than Jiren. One thing i will admit is that i liked Gas' weapon play. He was ambitionless and just the muscle of the group, not a compelling villain or antagonist with an agenda that conflicts with the main cast Although i liked Bardock...he overstayed his welcome. We didn't need a whole chapter and a half dedicated to his fight when we already knew the outcome of it
@@LuffyBlack i was expecting him to wake up and have some revelation that his people aren't killers or avengers but defenders of peace. That he would unlock some newfound power similar to Ultra Ego but instead of focusing on the wamt to destroy, its focused on the want to protect. Instead, we get Goku holding off Gas more while Granolah charges up a big attack featuring Vegeta headbutting Gas
@@VantasticJackson I sick with those people like you call ui goku is mui His ui is the weakest compare to other angles , he has not mastered this technique yet 😒
@@bgksm7201 we now have 3 different versions of the form or technique or whatever it is now: Ultra Instinct (UI) Mastered Ultra Instinct (MUI) And now Goku's version which we call True Ultra Instinct (TUI) All in all, i find it dumb and they should've stopped at MUI. The rate that Goku gained both UI and MUI was ridiculously rushed
I will be jazzed af if someone officially involved with the DBS art releases a pic of Black Freeza that uses Vantablack (or however its spelled) for his black parts and regular ink for the lines that shape his muscles.
I can't help thinking the remaining heaters being absorbed into the Freeze force could mean 73 is forgotten for a future enemy to take advantage of that.
Keep your new format. I think it works. And as for the arc as a whole, I certainly don't think it was bad. It didn't really sink to it's low point for me, *until GAS (and his "rivalry" with Bardock) showed up.* Granolah was interesting, *but Gas was just boring.* At least Granolah had a proper motivation driving the narrative. But beyond that, I don't hate this arc. It wasn't as good as it theoretically *should* have been, but it wasn't all bad either.
honestly this arc felt like it hasn't a direction other that be an excuse for showing bardock fighting, the bardock vs gas was pointless , we have been foreshadowed that gas has a weakness and that bardock used it 40 years ago, but at the time of revelating said weakness it end up being keep fighting, that or whatever that power up bardock had, that one is worst than super saiyan rage. at least that new characters were better than the new ones in the moro saga with the exeption of merus, that's with i enjoit more than the moro saga even through it slightly better. it didn't had really high highs but even the lowest lown weren't as bad as the last few chapters of the moro saga. i would give this a 4/10 but by my taste it was a 5.5/10, i hope that the anime make some rewrites to these stories.
Of course you’d give it a half rating when you only understand half the arc lol Not only did this arc have a direction, but it had the strongest themes out of any db arc. I’ll explain. The purpose of bardock was to give a reason for fighting that’s not connected to external things. Instead of fighting for revenge like granolah, or guilt like vegeta, or copying techniques like goku, bardock fights for victory. The reason it effected gas so much was because he doesn’t have a reason like that. All he cares about is pleasing his brother. That’s why it was so important and it ended up being the reason he lost.
I was just thinking randomly, but we haven’t had a new, powerful addition to the Z fighters crew literally since Vegeta (yes, Buu technically is, but he is more honorary I think at this point). Now, you would think now that Broly is canon he would be the new addition, but it’s been two arcs and there’s been 0 mention of him as far as I’m remembering. As far as powerful fighters for the Z team, it’s literally 4 main ones that make up the power in the team, obviously, Goku and Vegeta, and Gohan and Piccolo. While Krillin does bring some decent support (and so do 18 and 17, but I don’t think they’re really part of the Z fighters crew, especially 17) and Tien is somewhat decent, and obviously Yamcha doesn’t even fight anymore (and I don’t think Roshi really does much fighting now apart from the ToP, but that was more of a one time thing), there’s no other powerful crew member they can count on when things go south. So unless they finally decide to bring in Broly, or finally introduce Uub as a character officially, I feel like we need at least one more new fighter for the Z crew to at least bring the powerful fighters they have to a nice, round 5. This is just me randomly thinking and rambling though, so feel free to ignore this lmao
@@nok4799 i don’t see how apart from using the dragon balls to wish for them to be strong akin to what Granola did in this arc, apart from that, I can’t see it
NGL, the Granolah arc did seem a bit like getting the characters where they need to be for the ACTUAL story Toyotaro wanted to tell. I wonder if we should’ve spent more time with THAT character earlier, so it would’ve been clear THAT character were the Goku of this arc
I still believe during the instant transmission tour. When goku got to whis. He told him to call freeza, if only because he thought freeza would enjoy fighting gas more than he did.
I want a 73 arc where 73 somehow reactivates, assumes control over all his brethren and decides to rid the universe of all life. Make it an homage to Metal Cooler and have 73s attack all the planets with famous characters. We'd get to see Broly, Granolah, Black Frieza and even Meerus holding off the hoards of 73s off on their respective worlds, while Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo protecting Earth from another wave, etc. while Goku and Vegeta go after the original 73, that now serves as the core unit.
I think Granolah had a cool design and a cool fighting style But God damn was he boring And Gas was just boring period nothing about him was good This whole arc felt like a red herring Gas Granolah Ultra Ego True Ultra Instinct It all feels like it only existed to show how Op Frieza has gotten Which imo was really funny
Dragonball isn’t gonna do that, each jojos story is pretty much self contained and most parts can be seen without seeing past parts. Dragonball brings back many last characters or call backs whihc wouldn’t let it work
ARE WE ALL AS A COMMUNITY GONNA FORGET THAT IN THE INTRO OF THE ARC IT SAID NAMIEKANS CAME FROM A DIFFERENT DIMENSION ENTIRELY…….. NOT UNIVERSE BUT A WHOLE OTHER DIMENSION
I would say the Granolah Arc was wrothwhile we got to learn about the Cerelians as a whole, Goku remembering Bardock and Gine and learning about Bardock was, Bardock past and the Cerelian Dragonballs.
Feel like ever since Gas show up Toyotaro know that the ending will have Frieza being stronger than everyone by LARGE margin so everything just become a giant meaningless fight for him to show off his drawing skills (which is awesome and improving leap and bounds from the early day). Revenge, technique, state of mind, motivation help a bit against Gas and then he just power up again and again
While the arc flows immensely better once completed, some issues aren't fixed, there was no adventure whatsoever it was just a couple of fights, lots of easy mode deus ex moments (like the EZ dragon balls) a main fighting villain who's not terribly interesting despite having some cool abilities and visuals (style over substance) Vegeta once again is a meme, with UE being the new SSJ Blue in that its debut was a joke that couldn't get anything done.
This entire arc was just a set up arc for the next one. It gave us Goku accepting his saiyan side and improving UI, it gives us Vegeta UE and character progression about not being able to be what he used to be, and it gives us Frieza, showing him to be a true threat that can easily defeat Goku and Vegeta. Everything that surrounds these events are simply just ways to have these things happen.
I really like the way granola hand vegeta we’re playing off/mirroring each other and their own personal journeys and was slowly losing interest in the arc when it started to become about bardock and his relation to gas and that affecting the now. Black frieza at the end didn’t anger me but for him to show up at the last chapter of the arc and just deus ex the whole thing really left me losing interest
They were beating Gas’ ass. Frieza didn’t Deus Ex, while he very easily and handily whooped Gas, Goku and Vegeta were right about to win. Half his skull was already visible, Frieza just stole the W.
The arc was decent but it had many dissapointing moments. Such as making Granolah seem like a side character in his own arc. He didnt end on top at all, he should have at least defeated Elec, Toyotaru failed to use Broly further proving that since his movie he has done nothing significant, Failure of tieing in 73 at the end, They learning nothing significant from Bardocks message to defeat Gas and once again the focus being on goku and vegeta
Broly wouldn’t have done anything, he can’t control his power and at this point in the story the narrative is goku vegeat and granolah were top 3 contenders for strongest in the universe So all 3>broly, and then with gas it just makes broly even more obsolete 73s purpose was to tie goku and vegeta into the story and the first thing else says is that they don’t want an army or fighters, they want 73s intelligence And bardock was just meant to unlock gokus tui
@@sidecharacter3193 even if broly isnt stronger than them hes still viable and could have been used in the fight even to hold off Gas briefly. My whole point though is that since his movie he hasnt done anything relevant which is unfortunate. Your points about 73 and Bardock while commendable still shows that there inclusion in this arc was pretty lackluster. As Bardocks aid still didnt help beat Gas and 73 was teased to be a much bigger threat and that went nowhere
Before watching the video, to be unbiased: granolah has so much potential. Android 43 also had a lot of potential. So I think Granolah won't have mucht future in DBS. Maybe they'll expand his story in a gaiden, game or movie. But I think this is it. I hope the heeters aren't all just gone. Their race has a cool design and I hope they feature more in DBS's future.
I feel like the way the manga is being produced makes it impossible to deliver a satisfying ending. Toyotaro keeps the conflict going until the last chapter, which includes plot twists, resolution and the epilogue... that's too much crammed into a chapter and it feels unnatural compared to the weekly chapters of the original. The beginning of arcs are usually the best part because they don't feel pressured to cram in as much as possible, they let plot points develop over several issues in a more natural way. That's the opposite of the endings.
Toyotaro has the same issue as Toriyama. Cool concept, poor execution. A lot of the stuff in this arc was awesome, but could have been much more so if more thought went into the pacing and character development. Along with you mentioning the storyboard esque fight scenes, it's almost like Toyotaro and Toriyama are like "Hey, this would be cool, throw that in there!" and then just focus on fight scenes.
The Granolah Arc definitely have a lot of ups and down. Ups Introducing Dragonball Minus making Super in a different timeline Granolah fighting style Heeters relying on information than brute force Down Too much Bardock plot Vegeta doesn’t get a win, even with his new form: Ultra Ego Making them Strongest in the Universe eclipsed Goku and Vegeta God Ki Goku True Ultra Instinct Etc. I do feel like they could’ve been done so much more. So I wonder what next arc is going to be. Since now that Frieza obtained Black/Obsidian Form, I wonder how Goku and Vegeta will tackle this:/.
Was semi interested as started out. He was going to wish to have powers fine but the needing of Mui bothered me. When heeters and gas picked up , nosedived for me. Idk how to feel about bardock stuff
Thanks for watching! What did you think of this latest Dragon Ball Super saga? Do you plan to re-read it in one sitting?
I certainly plan on giving it a retry some time from now, but honestly this arc felt lackluster compared to Moro, though less a waste of time I see this arc as a lot of set up for what may come next
Theory: Elec is down, heaters are with Frieza, they had 73, so now Frieza has 73. See where I'm going at with this? Frieza might use his abilities. That combined with black Frieza? Unstoppable!
Actually, I reread it already a few days ago and I have to say that it definitely elevated my opinion of the arc by quite a bit. Your point about the fighting being too detailed and rather looking like storyboards and less like panels made for a manga pretty much nails it's main flaw for me. However, I realized that it's thematically way deeper than I initially thought and far from the mindless entertainment many people say DBS is (In fact, I think that the last two arcs actually improved on this issue). I guess Toyotaro's style just takes away from it a bit. Reading it in one go makes it almost feels as if watching an anime rather than reading a mange because of that (I bet people will really like the animated version a lot more. There are many great action moments imo). The Bardock flashback makes sense in a way that it helps Goku realize that he should somehow stick to his own nature and convictions (aka in a life and death battle, what else should matter besides victory), which Gas isn't really capable of by comparison. I've never been a huge fan of Bardock (rather neutral) so that entire controversy didn't really affect me and I got along much better on reread realizing the concept behind this flashback in general. On the other hand, I'd agree here that it wasn't really necessary to make a full on flashback but I understand that it helped splitting up the fighting a bit. Then again, did it really help? I guess if Granolah's internal struggle, which resulted in his "I don't want revenge anymore" would have been focused on a bit more while Goku and Vegeta fought Gas would have helped the climax immensely.
As for Frieza showing up, the oracle fish didn't recognize Gas back then when Goku took him to Whis so from that moment onward the ending was sort of foreshadowed. Don't know if that's Captain Hindsight doing his work here. I really like Frieza here because even though it's quite abrupt he demonstrates that he attained a power through training and work rather than relying on these Dragonballs, which bit Granolah and especially Gas in the ass. Overall, I really like the arc even though I acknowledge that it definitel has it's flaws. I'd personally put it #3 as for my manga arc ranking with the Moro and Goku Black arc ranking above it.
I honestly really enjoyed it! Besides the length, it felt very refreshing with a different take on a lot of stuff
@@Narutonami this is pretty close to my opinion too. Honestly the fight scenes being so detailed felt really refreshing
My biggest complaint with the saga is that it felt too long. They were clearly trying to stretch the saga until Super Hero’s debut. I really enjoyed it for what it is though
Patting is for the anime not the manga the writer should’ve realised
Long? It isn't even 30 chapters long
@@trashmouth2020 people only say it’s long or dragged because of the monthly waits. A lot of the chapters was just action with little story progression.
Dude its not even long. By DBZ standards, this is short. Even shorter than the moro arc. It only feels long because of the monthly release
@@trashmouth2020 Yeah, that's 30 months. We were trapped in this arc for 2.5 years.
I did liked Granolah, especially in his fights against Goku and Vegeta. That said, because Gas became a main enemy, Granolah was shoved to the sidelines and didn't get much focus. It's not really him that's bad, but rather the writing in the second half of this arc not doing him any service
I liked how gas and granolah fought.
To be fair he only has three years left of his life left
@@MotionFilmz18 not true, monaito healed him
@@Diamondr11Blue he restored the years he lost?
@@MotionFilmz18 yeah I was gonna say that doesn't make a whole lot of sense I'm pretty sure that's a magic that can't be healed lol
I actually like the Granolah arc and Bardock having a significant role in his survival. The fights with Goku and Vegeta vs Granolah and their evolution during the fight with their techniques is something very cool to see. Though Gas was not much of a memorable villain, I do like that he had a history with Bardock which influenced his fight with the Saiyans in the present.
The arc will only be a bad one if Granolah never appears in DB again or if his relationship with Goku does not get exploited.
i have to disagree heavily I really hate this ark there is nothing good its just horrible in all. the whole bardock wish made the ark unsavable for me.
Agreed imo this arc had the strongest themes that were connected to each character out of any db arc ever. I wish more people understood gas.
he’s a good underrated villain
@@aqua6166 definitely a dbs hater lol. bardock wished for goku and raditz to escape planet vegeta.
In the broly movie raditz even says it was “lucky” they didn’t respond to frieza’s call. It showed that Goku’s entire journey got started because of the dragon balls, it makes the series even better.
@@leultrainstinct406 the wish ruins dragon ball such a bs wish that ruins the low class saiyan overcoming the odd on his own ability and help of friends too. not just some wish and making him Japanese super man in his origin. its sad seeing the worst ark in all of dragon ball ruining dragon ball in its entirety. and no I don't hate dbs the manga was good until the top ark when it not just dropped the ball it just gave a big f you to anyone who enjoyed the anime top like me. it was sad. also.i want the manga to be good its just the last 3 arks have sucked.
@@aqua6166 I don't think the wish is what people think it is. DB is not known for their good stories, but that wish seems to be a bit much even for DB standards. And there is actually a lot of good thing in the arc, but the people focus more on the flaws. I focus on both and I still like the arc.
I very much hope that Granolah turns up again later instead of just dying in the background
I liked him as a character, even if his arc wasn't great after a certain point
you do realize that bardock was proof that universe 7 Saiyans were destined to go the way of the universe 6 Saiyans? if Frieza hadn't done what he did when he did it, bardock would have kept going on missions and zenkaiing his way to Super Saiyan, while simultaneously having a positive social impact just from the growing influence of doing so
Gine, not Bardock, Bardock is only one normal low class Saiyan.
Gine is the real special, stop give Bardock credit he's not deserved.
Bardock doing one good deed between his space genocides is not a sign he will reform the saiyans into symbols of peace
@@FlyingwithFire redundant statement as I made no such claim. I'm not writing some dissertation on the personality differences between bardock and other Saiyans, you know what TF I meant.
@@kingmasterlord you just inferred that he would make a positive social impact meaning they would become peaceful hence why they said symbols of peace.
@@aqua6166 he was talking about the super high power levels. The positive effect was influence in Saiyan society, which would create a civilization of saiyans who actively chase zenkais to become the leader, and thus a threat to freiza. Barsock wouldn't be a reformist, but he would be emblematic of the sheer potential growth in saiyans.
If Granolah returns, I hope its in a sense of them hiring him to hunt someone down or something. Not as a fighter but as a bounty hunter.
Maybe... Goku and Vegeta go looking for the 10 year Room of Spirit and Time to destroy it so Freeza can't use it anymore but they disappear, cue either Gohan and Piccolo or even Goten and Trunks to seek out Granolah to help them track down Goku and Vegeta and figure out what happened by using Granolah's underground links to stay off of Freeza's radar.
A sort of... More cloak and dagger saga as opposed to big opposing powers clashing kind of saga.
OR, hear me out: Mix in the Hirudegarn story. Tweak it a bit and have it so it's a prison made out of different relics (that aren't Dragon Balls and thus harder to track down) and have the Dragon team hire Granolah to help them find the relics. Maybe have the villain throw in a lie how the thing they're unlocking could give Granolah back his lost years due to Torombo's wish.
Make Tapion and Hirudegarn canon for no reason
@@MaxiemumKarnage They did it for Broly, why not do the same with other cool concepts from the Movies? Tapion is a character a lot of people like, Hirudegarn has an amazing design (well, at least its first form) that you can pluck straight out of the movie, it'd be a win really.
@@MaxiemumKarnage Broly and Gogeta were also made canon "for no reason". Your point?
Besides, Tapion and Hirudegarn are really unique characters.
He has thrm back. He didn't fall apart like has
@@MaxiemumKarnage Trunks is grow up now. No need tapion.
It's crazy to think that almost 2 years could be summed up and reviewed in 20 minutes. I feel like that says a lot. The only other month-to-month Manga I read was Attack on Titan and I didn't have the patience for it at the time. But I remember waaaay more happening to make it worth being month-to-month.
@sk AOT is the goat
Hm, how very interesting, fair and valid points and opinions, i hope things goes better with the next Arc.
The arc definitely had moments I enjoyed. With how goku was using instant transmission to travel the universe while he fought gas. Also liked how goku unlocked TUI. Also seeing bardock beat some ass was pretty dope.
For me, there are 3 main issues with this arc:
1. Vegeta not being given any win AGAIN. I believe Vegeta should've defeated Granolah in a fair fight and then we would introduce Gas as a ultimately antagonist. It wouldn't have been Vegeta's winning the final battle but his own personal win, against an opponent that Goku lost to, may I add. If Super Hero had that small victory then we could've had that.
2. Gas as an antagonist. While Granolah had a great introduction and his personal conflict and backstory were established before the fight, Gas didn't have that which is sad because his final moments and seeing the "strongest in the universe" power more as a curse was great and really dark.
3. Pacing. As I mentioned already a couple of times, I feel like they're going with the wrong pace for the monthly manga and as a result this arc feels way better when read once finished but when experiencing it monthly, it dragged so much.
they don't call it "Drag-On" ball for nothing!
I find point 3 less critical; this is a fighting manga, I'm cool with a fair amount of fighting committed to it. But I do agree with the former two, namely because the conflicts we are being shown don't really factor into the story at all. Vegeta being able to best Granola by coming to terms with his survivor's guilt and undermining Granola's revenge would've been nice. Show us both visually and narratively that despite his greater strength, he just can't seem to hate Vegeta strongly enough to commit and gets defeated, only for Gas to show up and literally twist the entire dynamic again in the way Dragon Ball used to do, by introducing narrative wild cards to avoid the story becoming too stable.
Likewise, I don't really feel we spend enough time with Gas and Granola together to establish their troubled rivalry. We get it alluded to, but we never see them getting into each other's hair, or aggravating one another. He's just like anime Jiren that he's stoic and relatively quiet until he gets his wish. However, finally discovering his own identity thanks to said wish, only for it to cost him his life, was horrific and entertaining. I kinda feel that one way of doing that would've been to introduce both characters sooner, like in the Moro arc, show them responding to the criminals and fighting together, but show that despite his potential that Gas can't ever seem to get ahead of the merc that his brother hires and seems to favour. Show Elec being that manipulator sooner by him intentionally giving outsiders a better shot at glory to try and force the "young" Gas to be a little more ambitious, only to evolve into using him as a weapon. Likewise, we don't really get to learn what Granola really loves, makes it harder to see him threatened.
Needless to say, I just kinda feel that because Granola isn't an established character like, say, Trunks, we don't really have that same investment. Though I must confess, I was much more invested with this than most prior arcs because I wasn't sure whether Granola would make it. However, I feel like it was too soon for him to just drop his vendetta against Freeza because now he has no narrative conflict to keep him from being proactive.
@@KaiserMattTygore927
Well played.
Like you said, Moro and Granolah arcs had their problems, but I still liked their premises. I hope the anime can fix the problems of those arcs in future.
*remembers how the res-f arc went in the anime* Well here's hoping they do a better job with these arc recaps than they did Res F and Beerus.
To be clear I desire the same thing, but I'm definitely worried they could make it even worse.
@@BreitheNua yeah, but the tournament of power was great
@@MasterGeek-mk5ne It also wasn't a recap to be fair, lol.
Granolah is my favourite thing about this arc. I just wish he didn't take so long to see through the heaters' lies.
I do like Gaz as well but it did get annoying when he kept getting up month after month while the other heaters didn't do a thing.
Granolah was raised to beleive they were somewhat okayish guys. That's why he didn't see, he was a KID when he met them
There was no way he’d be able to know
And in his eyes, they saved him and his only father figure when they were struggling to survive
That’s why it’s more tragic that they manipulated him this whole time
But at the same time they were being manipulated by frieza so karma
Granolah and his arc were amazing! The added lore and expanded universe. Going into some history of saiyans namekians and frieza. Colourful new characters. New forms that are actually kinda cool conceptwise and not just palet swaps. BARDOCK?! Only thing I didnt like is that it took them 17 battles to beat Gas. When they animate this it's gonna be goku vs frieza x1000
Yeah I like the character as well. We'll said
Yea, I just don't like Gas's design tbh, but it's whatever
Goku vs frieza was like 60 chapters long
This will be way shorter when dbs returns to weekly schedule
@@leultrainstinct406 No it wasnt wth😂 what manga did you read
I really liked the Granolah arc. I think a lot of people misunderstood his role and view him as a villain or antagonist. But he's the protagonist and I like how his story is a blend of both Goku's and Vegeta's. The character writing was good, and great by Dragonball standards
I don't think the problem is a "misunderstanding" its that the main character of the Arc (Granolah) is being shafted in his own story.
Great new characters. Awesome fights. Ultra Ego. Goku learning about Bardock. Yeah this arc was amazing in my opinion.
@Kira • 80 years ago oh yes and Black Frieza!!
You have terrible opinions
@@Majorblack No I’m just a true Dragonball fan
@@Strider315 I'm getting real sick of that response. if accepting everything wholeheartedly with no negative marks, no criticism, is what makes a true fan then I'm glad to be just a be casual. if not even lower than that.
@@kevinmooney9361 There was no criticism. They just said my opinions are trash. That’s not criticism, that is just being a hater. I’m really tired of that response of people just saying that’s trash, so yeah I am a true Dragonball fan compared to them.
A shame they didn't give Granolah a sense of honor after everything he put the Sayians through he would opt to help them in dealing with Frieza maybe use the remaining time he has to prepare.
While he isn't out for vegence, fine but Frieza is very much an active and present threat, he could return to planet Cereal on the drop of a hat and do one of his trade mark tactics. He can't eaxctly be at peace from that.
Fullmetal Alchemist was a monthly manga. Never got bad because of it. Every month were always 60 pages of pure glory. Granolah's arc isn't as bad as it seems when read in one sit, with great moments, but it got dragged really bad at times. Maybe it can be improved in the anime.
I feel like the release schedule really messed this arc up, more so than Moro. It's probably fine if binged all at once, but the huge gaps between releases made it take forever
I don't know why people got upset whenever Goku took an active role in the saga. He's one of the main characters in it along with Vegeta and Granolah, was he supposed to just stand there and do nothing the entire time? At least he got some character development.
Because fans are kinda tired of Goku being the lead or hero to save the day in the final fight. While this is definitely one of the more active roles he's had since the beginning of Z and yes, he got development, we want other people to shine harder and get the major Win or alike.
I'm glad Goku is growing but there are still others who need more development than Goku still.
I think it's more like how people think that he was forced in due to the Bardock flashback. Nowadays people prefer Goku sticking to a supportive role like in the later half of Z than being up front.
Because it comes at the cost of other cast characters.
I think the main complaint at least from me is I know Goku is the main character of this series. And that's okay. I've always been okay with that, but the way Goku is written nowadays? The less I see of him the better tbh. He's become so uninteresting that I rather stick with other characters.
Since the end of the Cell Saga they've been teasing us with a DB where Goku isn't the main character and literally never once have they made good on that promise.
I liked the individual reactions and breakdowns. I also like finishing off with an overarching reactions and analysis.
Maybe when DBS comes back for TV, maybe Toei and Toyotaro/Toriyama will take some feedback/reviews into account and fix/change up the things that held back this arc. It probably won’t happen, but one can hope
I couldn’t get past the fact that 73 survived. The treatment of vegeta, the trashing of the forms and training. How Granolah has no repercussions and how gas was thrown away. He didn’t deserve it. The list goes on
An easy fix for Torumbo would be to give it a finite amount of wishes before the Dragonballs break. And I always thought of the two Dragonballs as a lock and key situation
This video really sums up my feelings about this arc that I haven't seen anyone else point out in their content. Thanks for bringing attention to some of the glaring issues 👍🏼
I loved the ending. I lost it when Freeza showed up, I knew he was gonna bring the pain. We've all been expecting Freeza to do something since the end of Super, and this is it.
I actually just burned through the Super Manga (post ToP) to get to the end of the chapter.
So it worked to get me to read it.
All at once, it didn’t feel overlong.
It's sad that Vegeta and Goku got a new forms in this arc that make them stronger as the fight goes on but unfortunately it was no match against black Frieza which got one shotted.
It wasnt a match against anyone, they fought 3 people with new forms and didnt beat anyone. What a waste of time 😂
@@Flipitmixit yeah everyone got new forms but they were no match
They got a long way to go
Can we please all just clear out that "Mastered Ultra Instinct" is just the fan name, as it is simply "Complete UI" rather than Mastered. I feel that the community name really hurts what the form truly is and means for the character.
I guess the anime is going to have to eventually cover this arc... Which makes me worried I won't be able to look forward to this arc at all when it comes out.
There is a real chance that things could be tweaked, tightened and refined before then, so the two versions should be different enough.
@@MasakoX why do I have a feeling the anime will find a way to have Goku beat Gas?
Even though this is a longshot, I hope there's some kind of adventure for Granolah to find the two Dragon Balls instead of just EZ-moding the story
@@MasakoX I hope so! Just like i'm hoping the anime can fix bleach's terrible ending.
Remember the Anime was never adapting the manga in it's original incarnation. They were two different adaptations working off the same notes from Toryiama, I'm hoping it stays that way.
You know, how powerful characters are getting in dragonball is "absolute madness". At this rate they'll end up so powerful that they can't even blink, because the shockwave it'll cause will destroy the entire multiverse.
Vegeta’s character motivation needed to be elaborated on (did he actually want to defeat Granolah or just teach him a lesson?) in order to explain why he got a new form and still lost. Otherwise, critics will be left thinking that nobody but Goku is allowed to win.
I cannot gush harder over the fight choreography. Need something brutal? Two handed slams, or instincts-unleashed Gas planting a Dumbass Tree and shoving it back out a kilometer away. Need something slick? Charge up your shot while waiting for your opponent to surface from a pond. Or have clones attack from the sides so when the opponent spreads his arms out to attack, the real you goes right for his open chest. Need something cool? Energy swords, maces, daggers, thwomps. Want a surprisingly goofy attack? Goku gets hit by a train. TWICE. And since it was all so easy to follow, it could be easily animated.
I’m just happy the Granolah arc is over.
It's unfortunate that that statement is said rather frequently.
@@MasakoX Unfortunate yeah I just didn’t like this Arc.
@@MasakoX not that I can blame anyone who says it. The arc just felt it was just dragging on and on, losing its focus halfway through.
It just felt trying to make the arc longer without trying to make it stay good.
As for the 'storyboarding' style as you called it, Usually a series anime is meant as nothing more than an advertisement for the mana, so it's honestly refreshing to see a style that makes the manga act as an advertisement for the anime instead. I think He wants you to think 'oh man, this is going to look super cool animated, I can't wait to see it' which might annoy manga only readers a bit, but hey, you guys have had it too good for too long *eyes narrow*
nah but really, I do get that vibe, that they really want to go all-in on the anime.
I was waiting for Freeza to show up, probably as early as the first fight with gas, and if we didn't get any Freeza at all it would have felt that we were blue balled.
I liked Granolah better as an antagonist. Almost like a Future Trunks against the main heroes.
I agree that this could be better reading it in one go but at the same time i don't feel like reading it again any time soon same as the Moro Saga, except i really like the diversity of places in Moro saga and Vegeta role in Yardrat. The only thing i didn't like about the Moro arc was Goku stealing the win and Meerus surviving vs this arc which i didn't like that everything felt average conflict vs a single dude, in a single place and that's it, the end. Basically this felt more like a in between arc to what is coming but it took to long to end. I would say Moro was Namek Arc This is the Androids part, and now everyone is waiting for the Cell part (not literally)
this is certainly a messy saga! I wouldn't say it's bad, nor would I say it's amazing. it's a fine middle ground sitting just under the goku black arc IMO. I feel like it started off well but then went slowly down hill when UE hit the ground
This arc is just a good time and that was it
This arc was amazing from start to finish
One question...Where is 7-3?He was the reason to the beginning of the arc!!
"The Heaters were living on borrowed time."
Just like Granolah and Gas! :O
MasakoX I missed a lot of your videos cause of following One Piece, but Dragon Ball been always a hype for me, I cannot judge it for plot holes or logic behind it because it would never compel the complexity of other mangas (specially some Seinen). But I love your content and your effort innit. Thx for uploading all content I've missed
\\mod
I love also and missed your dub in Dragon Ball, you're amazing, keep up the good work and effort of all the years passed and those to come.
I would need to reread the last two arcs. I think it'd feel better in one sitting than having to wait months and months...
I prefer it when you review the chapters like you did before chapter 85, I love the breakdowns and jokes inside the sequence, to put it simply I prefer the long summaries.
Something I missed from the review process were the videos where you made 5 predictions for the upcoming chapter and seeing what you got right and wrong the prior time!
TFS would have Piccolo show up right after his debut and say "You peaked"
"Really, but it's so soon, I could still do so much"
"Yeah but... nah"
I always knew something like Black Frieza was going to happen sooner or later so that was probably the only time i felt something from this saga aside from Ultra Ego.
I still don't like the "i trained for 4 months and became a god" thing, but since they have introduced it, they should just go with to go with it now and i'm kinda glad they did. It would have been extremely stupid for Frieza to NOT lurk in the shadows and train for other months or years now that he knows about Ultra Instinct, Broly and even guys like Jiren and the gods. Of course he would try to surpass them and rule above everyone, he knew he was vulnerable and outclassed before and needed to get stronger. Frieza is arrogant but not stupid. It's still kinda stupid for him to just spare Goku and Vegeta, but it's not too out of character and...the plot needs to happen, he could have just ended the entire franchise in that chapter if he wanted to honestly.
Its crazy how Goku out her fighting Kings, Emperors, and Princes. Even has two sons that are princes. Consort Goku coming up in the world.
Honestly, Granolah reminded me too much of Eren Jeager (until the final chapter): Too wrapped up in his anger & goals to see that his actions *might* not actually solve the real problems, & writing off anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Stop. Granolah is his own man
dont compare an amazing character to granolah
@@aqua6166 don't diss granolah
@@ashrimp4505 I will dis him he isnt a good character..
@@aqua6166 how dare
For goodness sake, Monaito hypnosis is not an asspull! He did it in the Bardock Flashback! Also, he's a namekian! who cares they literally do whatever they want.
I completely agree with it feeling like a anime storyboard. It's almost the opposite problem Oda has in One Piece. One Piece is crammed in and hard to follow both visually and story wise sometimes too, Super Is super easy to follow but nothing much actually happens in terms of story.
What, you don't love those one piece fight panels where you have absolutely no idea what you're supposed to be looking at?
Been on and off keeping track of the manga through you, now that is done(for now) I might give it a look. Moro seemed to be pretty interesting, and people seem to be very divided on Granolah. I needs sees it for myself.
I liked almost every chapter actually but there was definately one chapter where I knew it was good but felt like something was still missing
The ending of this arc was genius, everything else aside
This entire arc was great too
I enjoyed Granolah, but it suffered even more than Moro did from the week-to-week format. It really does feel like one of the filler arcs from the original run, a la Garlic Jr. or Goku's post-Baba training. I will say that the highs are Exceptional™, Black Freeza, Ultra Ego and Gas as a villain are honestly some top tier content as far as Super goes, but it just. Didn't justify the length. I will say though that the whole "this ruined DB!" thing is ridiculous. This arc isn't horrible, it's just mediocre with some great highs. So it's just another arc of Super, actually.
This arc is definitely one of the best db has ever had
I feel like you’re criminally underrating it
@@leultrainstinct406 🧢🧢🧢🧢
I like the idea of an old rival of Bardock's coming back to fight the son. That's a classic character motivation and often a good one. I'm also not against Gas being an important figure in Bardock's life. The problem is Toyotaro had the concept, not the execution. Gas has one fight with Bardock, and we barely learn anything about either character from it. If it were a real rivalry, something that defined these two (at least to each other), it'd place real importance on Goku being involved.
Sadly, it can be argued Granolah got in the way. Gas is *his* rival, not Bardock's, not Goku's. Granolah has ties to Bardock, but he couldn't be too close, otherwise he'd never fight Goku and Vegeta. He needs to fight the heroes though, or else the fans won't respect his power (i.e. no one would believe he's as strong as the saiyans unless we see him fight them). I think the Bardock angle was doomed from the start. It's frustrating because it's also the heart of this plot, so you can't just "fix" anything. It's more like it needs to be start over from the beginning.
That said, being a shorter arc would resolve most of its issues. Gas and Granolah wouldn't need to feel like more significant facets in the lives of Frieza or the saiyans if we didn't have to follow their journey for over a year.
I disliked how, despite the arc being named after GRANOLAH, there was a big focus on these 3 other characters instead:
-Goku
-Bardock
-and Gas
Lets be real. Who wanted Goku to focus on Ultra Instinct AGAIN for the 3rd arc in a row? After being able to turn into the Mastered State at will. Then we have the True State...which looks unappealing. Would've looked cooler if it was the aura silhouette from the Anime of when Goku first went MUI
Gas was...not all that interesting as a main arc antagonist. Dare i say, worse than Jiren. One thing i will admit is that i liked Gas' weapon play. He was ambitionless and just the muscle of the group, not a compelling villain or antagonist with an agenda that conflicts with the main cast
Although i liked Bardock...he overstayed his welcome. We didn't need a whole chapter and a half dedicated to his fight when we already knew the outcome of it
Yeah Granolah was robbed
@@LuffyBlack i was expecting him to wake up and have some revelation that his people aren't killers or avengers but defenders of peace. That he would unlock some newfound power similar to Ultra Ego but instead of focusing on the wamt to destroy, its focused on the want to protect. Instead, we get Goku holding off Gas more while Granolah charges up a big attack featuring Vegeta headbutting Gas
@@VantasticJackson I sick with those people like you call ui goku is mui
His ui is the weakest compare to other angles , he has not mastered this technique yet 😒
@@bgksm7201 we now have 3 different versions of the form or technique or whatever it is now:
Ultra Instinct (UI)
Mastered Ultra Instinct (MUI)
And now Goku's version which we call True Ultra Instinct (TUI)
All in all, i find it dumb and they should've stopped at MUI. The rate that Goku gained both UI and MUI was ridiculously rushed
Toyotaru: oh wow! this is so cool! yeah i'll add this too! YE- wait a second... this is draging out too much. oh well, Black Freeza it is!
I will be jazzed af if someone officially involved with the DBS art releases a pic of Black Freeza that uses Vantablack (or however its spelled) for his black parts and regular ink for the lines that shape his muscles.
Hoping that the anime adaptation of it can fix some of it's problems
I can't help thinking the remaining heaters being absorbed into the Freeze force could mean 73 is forgotten for a future enemy to take advantage of that.
Ooh, maybe Freeza uses 73 as a training partner/dummy?
Keep your new format. I think it works. And as for the arc as a whole, I certainly don't think it was bad. It didn't really sink to it's low point for me, *until GAS (and his "rivalry" with Bardock) showed up.* Granolah was interesting, *but Gas was just boring.* At least Granolah had a proper motivation driving the narrative. But beyond that, I don't hate this arc. It wasn't as good as it theoretically *should* have been, but it wasn't all bad either.
honestly this arc felt like it hasn't a direction other that be an excuse for showing bardock fighting, the bardock vs gas was pointless , we have been foreshadowed that gas has a weakness and that bardock used it 40 years ago, but at the time of revelating said weakness it end up being keep fighting, that or whatever that power up bardock had, that one is worst than super saiyan rage.
at least that new characters were better than the new ones in the moro saga with the exeption of merus, that's with i enjoit more than the moro saga even through it slightly better.
it didn't had really high highs but even the lowest lown weren't as bad as the last few chapters of the moro saga.
i would give this a 4/10 but by my taste it was a 5.5/10, i hope that the anime make some rewrites to these stories.
smh... his weakness is obvious dude... -_-
Just punch him really hard a lot of times :)
Of course you’d give it a half rating when you only understand half the arc lol
Not only did this arc have a direction, but it had the strongest themes out of any db arc. I’ll explain.
The purpose of bardock was to give a reason for fighting that’s not connected to external things. Instead of fighting for revenge like granolah, or guilt like vegeta, or copying techniques like goku, bardock fights for victory. The reason it effected gas so much was because he doesn’t have a reason like that. All he cares about is pleasing his brother. That’s why it was so important and it ended up being the reason he lost.
This and Moro arc had few lows and extremely high-highs. They’re both amazing
@@leultrainstinct406 man, that was just my opinion, if you like it good for you, don't need to be like that
I was just thinking randomly, but we haven’t had a new, powerful addition to the Z fighters crew literally since Vegeta (yes, Buu technically is, but he is more honorary I think at this point).
Now, you would think now that Broly is canon he would be the new addition, but it’s been two arcs and there’s been 0 mention of him as far as I’m remembering.
As far as powerful fighters for the Z team, it’s literally 4 main ones that make up the power in the team, obviously, Goku and Vegeta, and Gohan and Piccolo. While Krillin does bring some decent support (and so do 18 and 17, but I don’t think they’re really part of the Z fighters crew, especially 17) and Tien is somewhat decent, and obviously Yamcha doesn’t even fight anymore (and I don’t think Roshi really does much fighting now apart from the ToP, but that was more of a one time thing), there’s no other powerful crew member they can count on when things go south.
So unless they finally decide to bring in Broly, or finally introduce Uub as a character officially, I feel like we need at least one more new fighter for the Z crew to at least bring the powerful fighters they have to a nice, round 5.
This is just me randomly thinking and rambling though, so feel free to ignore this lmao
I'd rather they make Tien and Yamcha relevant again tbh.
@@nok4799 i don’t see how apart from using the dragon balls to wish for them to be strong akin to what Granola did in this arc, apart from that, I can’t see it
"simply deactivate those balls!" I've never laughed so hard
May I have a question? What if Saitama entered goku's universe and absorbed ultra instinct or hakai's power? Just wonder
It's hilarious how Granolah had gotten overshadowed by Vegeta, Goku, Bardock, Gas AND Frieza.
Nah not vegeta vegeta only had that moment when he transformed after that he was the joke of the arc
Mid opinion. Granolah is great and he should return sometime
Never lmao Granolah the definition of boring, terrible character terrible writing
@@King_Boo_5 no, he just wasn't flushed out as much as he couldve been. He has a unique style and set of powers at least
The main man for the saga got relegated it was so weird
NGL, the Granolah arc did seem a bit like getting the characters where they need to be for the ACTUAL story Toyotaro wanted to tell.
I wonder if we should’ve spent more time with THAT character earlier, so it would’ve been clear THAT character were the Goku of this arc
Whose "that"?
🤔🤔🤔🤔
I still believe during the instant transmission tour. When goku got to whis. He told him to call freeza, if only because he thought freeza would enjoy fighting gas more than he did.
Oh great a spam bot now what
It's literally stated that Elec was the one to call Freeza before
His ,,urgent errand" he mentioned in chapter 79
@@berumoddo4036 …oh i thought he was calling the galactic patrol, thank you for clearing that up.
I want a 73 arc where 73 somehow reactivates, assumes control over all his brethren and decides to rid the universe of all life. Make it an homage to Metal Cooler and have 73s attack all the planets with famous characters. We'd get to see Broly, Granolah, Black Frieza and even Meerus holding off the hoards of 73s off on their respective worlds, while Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo protecting Earth from another wave, etc. while Goku and Vegeta go after the original 73, that now serves as the core unit.
Really look forward to seeing this animated one day.
will you masakox make what if about good raditz ssj4 vs gas tonight yes are no
I think Granolah had a cool design and a cool fighting style
But God damn was he boring
And Gas was just boring period nothing about him was good
This whole arc felt like a red herring
Gas Granolah
Ultra Ego
True Ultra Instinct
It all feels like it only existed to show how Op Frieza has gotten
Which imo was really funny
I'm hoping the manga hiatus is so that they can alter their workflow and build up a bit of a buffer for a shift to weekly releases.
Now that it's over I'd love to see a rewrite.
It doesn’t need a rewrite it’s already great lol
I think this arc just need better pacing, so it would be great
wishing that the next db chapters pulls a steel ball run type not a universe reset but having a feeling of refresh
Dragonball isn’t gonna do that, each jojos story is pretty much self contained and most parts can be seen without seeing past parts. Dragonball brings back many last characters or call backs whihc wouldn’t let it work
"When have you ever heard of a Saiyan begging to throw a match?" 😂😂
"PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATE THOSE BALLS"
If bulma had the cruleon dragon balls... free cosmetic upgrades for life
ARE WE ALL AS A COMMUNITY GONNA FORGET THAT IN THE INTRO OF THE ARC IT SAID NAMIEKANS CAME FROM A DIFFERENT DIMENSION ENTIRELY…….. NOT UNIVERSE BUT A WHOLE OTHER DIMENSION
I would say the Granolah Arc was wrothwhile we got to learn about the Cerelians as a whole, Goku remembering Bardock and Gine and learning about Bardock was, Bardock past and the Cerelian Dragonballs.
I´d wager that the Morro arc will be more memorable, at least it felt a tad more interesting.
I’m gonna be pretty pissed off if Granola dies off screen without anymore involvement in future arcs or even the next arc.
Feel like ever since Gas show up Toyotaro know that the ending will have Frieza being stronger than everyone by LARGE margin so everything just become a giant meaningless fight for him to show off his drawing skills (which is awesome and improving leap and bounds from the early day). Revenge, technique, state of mind, motivation help a bit against Gas and then he just power up again and again
While the arc flows immensely better once completed, some issues aren't fixed, there was no adventure whatsoever it was just a couple of fights, lots of easy mode deus ex moments (like the EZ dragon balls) a main fighting villain who's not terribly interesting despite having some cool abilities and visuals (style over substance) Vegeta once again is a meme, with UE being the new SSJ Blue in that its debut was a joke that couldn't get anything done.
Spam bots will be cut down.
Gotta say, just glad we got more Bardock no matter how iffy
4:07 I missed that scene
"Yeah D̶a̶n̶y̶ Toyotaro kind of forgot about t̶h̶e̶ ̶I̶r̶o̶n̶ ̶F̶l̶e̶e̶t̶ Seven-Three"
He didn’t, 73 was explained to only be wanted for what information he contained
This entire arc was just a set up arc for the next one. It gave us Goku accepting his saiyan side and improving UI, it gives us Vegeta UE and character progression about not being able to be what he used to be, and it gives us Frieza, showing him to be a true threat that can easily defeat Goku and Vegeta. Everything that surrounds these events are simply just ways to have these things happen.
So In short it’s just the android saga
11:35 😫😫😫😫🚿🚿🚿🚿🚿🚿🚿🚿🚿
I really like the way granola hand vegeta we’re playing off/mirroring each other and their own personal journeys and was slowly losing interest in the arc when it started to become about bardock and his relation to gas and that affecting the now. Black frieza at the end didn’t anger me but for him to show up at the last chapter of the arc and just deus ex the whole thing really left me losing interest
They were beating Gas’ ass. Frieza didn’t Deus Ex, while he very easily and handily whooped Gas, Goku and Vegeta were right about to win. Half his skull was already visible, Frieza just stole the W.
Can you do a rewrite it if this story
The arc was decent but it had many dissapointing moments. Such as making Granolah seem like a side character in his own arc. He didnt end on top at all, he should have at least defeated Elec, Toyotaru failed to use Broly further proving that since his movie he has done nothing significant, Failure of tieing in 73 at the end, They learning nothing significant from Bardocks message to defeat Gas and once again the focus being on goku and vegeta
Broly wouldn’t have done anything, he can’t control his power and at this point in the story the narrative is goku vegeat and granolah were top 3 contenders for strongest in the universe
So all 3>broly, and then with gas it just makes broly even more obsolete
73s purpose was to tie goku and vegeta into the story and the first thing else says is that they don’t want an army or fighters, they want 73s intelligence
And bardock was just meant to unlock gokus tui
@@sidecharacter3193 even if broly isnt stronger than them hes still viable and could have been used in the fight even to hold off Gas briefly. My whole point though is that since his movie he hasnt done anything relevant which is unfortunate.
Your points about 73 and Bardock while commendable still shows that there inclusion in this arc was pretty lackluster. As Bardocks aid still didnt help beat Gas and 73 was teased to be a much bigger threat and that went nowhere
Before watching the video, to be unbiased: granolah has so much potential. Android 43 also had a lot of potential. So I think Granolah won't have mucht future in DBS. Maybe they'll expand his story in a gaiden, game or movie. But I think this is it. I hope the heeters aren't all just gone. Their race has a cool design and I hope they feature more in DBS's future.
You seem like a nice guy, Lawrence. But when you were talking about the Cerellean Dragon Balls, I felt you were a different person.
I feel like the way the manga is being produced makes it impossible to deliver a satisfying ending.
Toyotaro keeps the conflict going until the last chapter, which includes plot twists, resolution and the epilogue... that's too much crammed into a chapter and it feels unnatural compared to the weekly chapters of the original. The beginning of arcs are usually the best part because they don't feel pressured to cram in as much as possible, they let plot points develop over several issues in a more natural way. That's the opposite of the endings.
I do find it funny that an entire planet is considered the same location due to how Dragon Ball works.
Toyotaro has the same issue as Toriyama.
Cool concept, poor execution.
A lot of the stuff in this arc was awesome, but could have been much more so if more thought went into the pacing and character development.
Along with you mentioning the storyboard esque fight scenes, it's almost like Toyotaro and Toriyama are like "Hey, this would be cool, throw that in there!" and then just focus on fight scenes.
The Granolah Arc definitely have a lot of ups and down.
Ups
Introducing Dragonball Minus making Super in a different timeline
Granolah fighting style
Heeters relying on information than brute force
Down
Too much Bardock plot
Vegeta doesn’t get a win, even with his new form: Ultra Ego
Making them Strongest in the Universe eclipsed Goku and Vegeta God Ki
Goku True Ultra Instinct
Etc.
I do feel like they could’ve been done so much more.
So I wonder what next arc is going to be. Since now that Frieza obtained Black/Obsidian Form, I wonder how Goku and Vegeta will tackle this:/.
I don't think incorporating Minus makes Super in a different timeline. Rather it feels like a retcon
@@Rioraku I guessed that you’re right🤔.
Was semi interested as started out. He was going to wish to have powers fine but the needing of Mui bothered me. When heeters and gas picked up , nosedived for me. Idk how to feel about bardock stuff