S3 E56 Surviving the Spiritual Assassins Around Us (Alma 43-52)
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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In this episode Kerry and Lamar explore the rich and powerful symbolism of the war chapters. They talk about how in our day there truly are people who want to kill our testimonies and those of our loved ones, and the chapters for this week contain the ideas we need to know how to defend ourselves and those around us. They delve into principle after principle and draw out powerful ideas to help us survive the unprecedented attacks we are all experiencing.
We are grateful for our sponsor, and for Launchpad Consulting Studio for producing the podcast, and for Rich Nicholls, who composed and plays the music for the podcast.
This was a great episode - especially the invitation at the end to look carefully at what we might be letting into our minds and spirits that opens the door for the poisoning that can kill us bit by bit. I applaud your efforts with young people to be real with them about what it means to be precise in following the prophet. This is sage advice for disciples of all ages. When you get older it's easier to think we have maturity to "handle" the world. It occurred to me in listening this morning that the proliferation of temples around the world are efforts to fortify us, to keep us out of the world more often and busy with preparing for Christ to come. These are the walls we want to be "behind"!!
Amen to that! I wish we could get all the youth to listen to this one!
Thank you for the nice comment and for being a part of this message. Let's spread it out there and teach the next generation correct principles from the scriptures.
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 They need all the help they can get!
Yea, verily, verily I say unto you, if all podcasts had been, and were, and ever would be, like unto Kerry and Lamar, behold, the very powers of that beast would be shaken forever; yea, the devilish internet would never have power over the hearts of the children of men!
Oh, I may have to use that one in advertising! That is fun!
@@TheScripturesAreReal You have MY permission, now we just need to find a way to get permission from Mormon.
@@benjaminsmith6031 He and I are buds. We should be fine! Thank you!
HA!!! That is fantastic!! That makes my week for sure! Thank you for such a nice comment, I really appreciate it!
Thank you both for this episode... strategic directions to keep the poison of the adversary's tactics out of my life. I shared my learnings with my younger brother in jail today and he shared his own testimony, even asking for a chapter, which i emailed him and will try to keep up...because in my prayers, I know God loves us all.... wherever we are, God is working hard to remind His children who we are and how to survive spiritually. Tena korua Lamar and Kerry❤
Thank you my friend! I am so glad this was helpful for you and for your brother!
I have found that my book Return Unto Me is really helpful for people in prison. You can get a electronic version online, and if that doesn't work, email me at 01@byu.edu and I will help you figure out how to get it to him.
Bless you both!
Thank you for telling a bit of your story and I think you are 100% correct. God loves all his children no matter where they are physically or spiritually. Keep up the great work and thank you for taking the time to drop us a comment!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Yes!
Thank you for this episode! I love the lessons in the war chapters. I think the first way we come down the hill is in the things we allow ourselves to think about. Watch carefully the defense of your mind.
Yes, I agree! I had a Bishop when I was young and I have remembered his wise words " the genesis of all sin begins in the mind." I don't know where that quote originated but I think this is true. Don't let your guard down! Thanks for the comment.
Oh so very, very true!!!!
One of the things from these chapters that I think about frequently is this from Alma 43.
"8 For behold, his designs were to stir up the Lamanites to anger against the Nephites; this he did that he might usurp great power over them, and also that he might gain power over the Nephites by bringing them into bondage."
People are easy to control when they are angry or scared...and that is very often what media and politicians try to get us to be. Just realize that if you are getting whipped up into anger or hysteria, you are easier to influence.
You are soooooo right! How prophetic is President Nelson when he tells us to be peacemakers!?!
100%!!! There is a reason Mormon put these events in detail for us to learn from and certainly "stirring up to anger" is so relevant to our day! Thanks for your comment.
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen!
Loved being reminded of the symbolism of Lahonti relenting and coming just a little way down the mountain to our letting our guard down just a little, allowing the adversary an opening into our lives.
Thank you for another wonderful discussion!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I am so glad this was helpful for you. This is a really, really important story for us in our day!
That lesson is so instructive. We need to pay attention to what we are allowing in our lives. Thanks for the nice comment!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen!
Great episode! I love the surviving against spiritual assassins theme. Something that stood out to me that fits the theme and was not mentioned during the podcast has to do with Amalickiah convincing the Lamanites to go to battle. When he first comes over he tries to incite them to battle but they were mostly scared to go (47:2). You talked about his intrigue with Lehonti and the problem with coming down just a little, and you mentioned how he assassinated the king of the Lamanites and then used the peoples love of him. What stood out to me was in 48:1, "he began to inspire the hearts of the Lamanites against the people of Nephi; yea he did appoint men to speak unto the Lamanites from their towers, against the Nephites." Soon they were past the previous fear of going to war against the Nephites. This same tactic is definitely used by the adversary all the time today as well. If we hear things enough, it becomes easier to believe them. The spirit of revelation can help us see through the lies.
I think about this one a lot too. We just didn't have time to address it, but it seems to important. They were willing to keep the vows they had made at first, but the trickle of deception soon had them at the point where they were ready to break that vow. There is something so important about that idea. Please spread the word and help people listen to this episode! Thanks for your comment!
I agree with you and Kerry, there are so many things like what you mentioned here we would love to dive into but this episode would have been days long. I guess that is the wisdom in being encouraged to read the scriptures over and over, there are so many themes and principles to lean and apply. Thank you for your astute comment, let's go teach the next generation correct principles!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 That's my brother making that astute comment!
Smarts run in the family I see!
Thank you both for helping me see these “war chapters” through newly opened eyes.
I am so glad! This is important stuff and I am thrilled if we are helping you get some good stuff out of it. Bless you!
Thank you for letting us know that you enjoyed it. This is the goal, to bring the people and principles alive for us to draw power from. Thanks for helping us spread the word!
Soo interesting to me is the drip feed of poison by thevopposition. An enlightening view. Thank you Both❣️
There is a way to describe it! The drip-feed of spiritual poison. I will use that one if it is okay with you!
Absolutely, and anything else I may comment in the future, please do. It's still true as I mentioned some months ago, 'the more I know the less I know'. Its such an adventure isn't it! The layers in scripture and need for the Holy Ghost to expand/enlighten us. I hope u can realise how helpful, uplifting and joyous another view/insight is to others. Thanks again❣️
@@starbright47 The journey is so joyous, and I am so happy if what we are doing is edifying for others. Bless you!
Knowing we were starting the war chapters, and admittedly I was kind of dreading them, I prayed that I could learn something new that would apply to my life. This podcast answered that prayer. It took me several hours to get through the podcast because I had to keep stopping to write notes but I see these chapters in a different way now. I will be asking the suggested questions and sharing what I’ve learned with others. Thank you so much.
This makes me so happy. I hope it has made the scriptures become more real for a bunch of people. I am so glad it has helped you apply this part of the scriptures to your life better. Bless you!
I am really touched by what you wrote here! This is what we aim for and I am really glad it reached you. I have the same experience when I listen to Kerry with other guests, I stop and note things in my scriptures I heard during the episode. Sometimes after we end the podcast I'll ask Kerry for the reference of his quotes and include them in the Notes of the online version... so I understand where you are coming from. Thank you so much for your kind comment and I hope we can continue to help you connect with the people and principles in the scriptures!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen!
I was watching the episode before this one and fell asleep. I awoke halfway through this episode and now must watch both episodes again so I don’t miss out on anything. Every time I watch one of your episodes it’s always the same. I have to watch it again and again. Thank you for all your hard work to keep this show going.
Do you have to watch again and again because they always put you to sleep? 😉I am glad they are helpful for you. Bless you!
@@TheScripturesAreReal I fall asleep because it’s 0:dark30 when I start to read and then wake up an hour later.
I am honored that you make us a part of your day... even if it is at midnight! We look forward to having you join us whenever you can!
Thank you both for these applications to current life.
I am glad it is helpful. I think this is such an important topic!
Thank you for coming with us on the journey and for leaving a comment. It really does help to hear from the audience and to get the message out. Thanks again!
Thank you both for sharing your awesome conversation, you both are so enthusiastic about the power of these chapters, you do so well at sharing the discussion time. Thank you for both modelling a wonderful gospel discussion.
The thought that came as I listened was my need to improve by degrees daily towards being covenant confident not allowing myself to be worn down by degrees. Thank you for the challenge to identify where I can grow towards covenant confidence. President Nelson surely is giving us the ways to stand firm and move forward as he so confidently says: “Cast Satan out of your life.”
I am personally so grateful for the wonderful faithful people in my life and for the wonderful life that the Lord offers as we follow the Holy Ghost to walk with the Him.
I love these phrases. Improving by degrees, covenant confidence, etc. This is powerful. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for the kind comments! We are thankful for you, let's stick together!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen to that!
This was awesome. This was my first episode that I’ve listened to. I’ll have to go back and watch them all!
About time you watched them! JK. I am glad it was helpful!
Welcome! Glad to have you with us! I hope you find new connections with the scriptures as I have as we make the scriptures real in our lives.
Love this episode. After you talked about Captain Moroni (Alma 48: 17), I thought about how Satan's power is totally dependent on the choices of men and how that actually makes us more powerful. I also loved how you shared that one way Saints can "come down" is by disagreeing with the Prophet on just one issue. It is so easy to do in the World today, where the World teaches so many things contrary to the Gospel. It is much better to take that one thing and sincerely pray for a testimony, changing our trajectory from down to up. Thank you for your testimonies!!
Those things are powerful for me too. I am amazed at what we can gain from the Book of Mormon!
Thank you for the comment. I love these chapters because how applicable they are to us right now. Glad to have you with us on the podcast!
Great insight to the war chapters and the application to our day and personal lives. I appreciate the “list” to remember to use. I agree that Satan will use our righteous desires and trust against us by spinning the truth or by disguising the real intent. Great podcast, keep up the great work
I am so glad it is helpful for you! There is so much power in these chapters we just need to keep mining them!
So true! Satan takes an element of good and mixes it all up... "and by degrees""... Thanks for checking in, love hearing from everyone!
I cant imagine not loving anything you teach❤
Well the Book of Mormon gives us such great material!
I agree with Kerry and thank you for the kind comment!
I appreciate the advice about our motivation for why we do what we do. I have struggled with this myself for years.
Haven't we all!? But having the scriptures make us give it a good, hard look, and help us want to do better, will help us keep inching forward in purifying our motives.
The people in the Book of Mormon go through cycles, we go through cycles. My take away from the scripture if we feel like we have moved away from where we should be we can always come back. The Savior will help us when we are down and give us that motivation. Thanks for your honest comment, let's stick together!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen to that! Band of Brothers and Sisters in this personal battle together.
Thank you for this episode. One lesson I learned some years back go along a similar thread. It was, replace the name of a city with the name of someone I care about. That profoundly changed the meaning to me. It was that I need to prepare them to not be spiritually overtaken. Because retaking them is more difficult.
That is an interesting way to look at it! I like that, helps us keep in perspective what happens if we do let our guard down. What would we give up if we do let things slip? Thanks for the comment!
wow, that is a powerful way to read this! I am going to try that!
Great episode thank you for your testimony . May God bless you both thank you
Thank you! I am so glad it been helpful for you!
Thank you so much and thanks for listening!
Always great insights!
I am so very, very glad it was helpful!
For me chapter 48 helps me , as a parent and leader, to understand why the child and youth program. We need to prepare them so that they know how to hear the Holy Ghost and how to be guided by the Holy Ghost in all aspects of their lives.
Amen to that! So very important!!!!
100% agree! I used to talk about this when teaching Seminary, to strengthen our walls around us and help others to be strong. Thank you for the comment.
Loved the discussion on Lehonti.
I think we need to get everyone to clue into that!
I love that lesson, I find that is how Satan gets into our lives and we need to learn to shut him out.
Kerry and Lamar thanks for this podcast - I will try to see where I am slowly getting poisoned spiritually little by little.
We all are getting poisoned, hopefully we can find it and stop it!
Yes! we are surrounded by a toxic environment! Let's create our own environment and help each other stay strong! Thanks for the comment!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Amen! I am so grateful for all the strength we can draw from each other.
This year I've concentrated on precepts. I looked up precepts and principles. I liked this description; "Precepts are clear statements that are not open to negotiation, while principles are general guidelines that require discernment."
I'm still trying to discover the difference, but I think we use principles instead of precepts too much.
If we're trying to abide by "precepts" we need to define precepts as they are. Am I off can you help me with this?
I am not sure I am clear on exactly what Joseph Smith meant. I have always guessed he meant guidelines or principles, such as teaching us "correct precepts" and letting us govern ourselves. But the Webster 1828 dictionary defines precept as "n a general sense, any commandment or order intended as an authoritative rule of action; but applied particularly to commands respecting moral conduct. The ten commandments are so many precepts for the regulation of our moral conduct." So, did Joseph Smith understand the word as commandment or principle or the kind of clear statement you are mentioning? I don't know. From the other times he uses the word I think he means principles, but I am not really sure.
I get where you are coming from, I like your thoughts. I would be ok with saying "precepts" and between us I would totally understand what you mean. I use the word principles because I think the rest of the world understands that word better and I adopted what Joseph Smith said about "correct principles." But I got ya, we'er on the same page! I appreciate the comment and deep thought!
@@lamarnewmeyer2747 Yep. I think the whole "abiding by its precepts will get a man nearer to God than anything else" makes us want to know how Joseph used the term, but we don't know. Even so, I think we are all pretty much on the same page, even with Joseph.
Hey guys! I’m here from the podcast and I have a question I’d love to hear your thoughts on: I know people who are uncomfortable at church because their lives don’t seemingly agree with what prophets have said, particularly I’m thinking of a mother who has chosen to work instead of staying at home with her young children, and while she feels like this is what God has prepared for her and her family, it seemingly contradicts the prophets. In the chapters this week, the Anti-Nephi-Lehis also seemingly contradict the prophets, as instead of following the commandments to not suffer themselves to be slain and to protect their families even unto bloodshed, they abstain from fighting according to a covenant they have made. While I agree with you that pridefully going against the prophets’ teachings is coming down the mountain a little, isn’t there space for people who are living a higher law of a personal covenant? Perhaps, in their case, the messages that are helpful and safeguarding for the overall body of the church are not the “best” in a good/better/best scenario, because best is seeking and following personal revelation?
I haven’t personally been put in a position wherein I’ve felt that the prophet’s counsel isn’t the party I need to follow, but I think there are many who have, and generalizing this scenario might hurt tender feelings that are humbly trying their best to follow promptings of the spirit.
This is a fantastic question! And I think you are right, that generalizing can be our problem. In this case, I think it is generalizing the teachings of the prophets. So, for example, many years ago President Benson said that it was best for mothers to be in the home. He and others also have said that there are times and circumstances where that may not be what needs to happen. So, if someone at the time had received inspiration that God needed them to do something else, they would have fit in line with what President Benson was saying.
There is a two-fold problem that follows. Undoubtedly many did receive direction from God about what they should do. Just as undoubtedly many were influenced in wanting to receive direction by also wanting to follow the counsel of the world, or something else. Did some follow God? Yes! Did some follow the world? Yes. Could anyone else tell who was doing which of those two things? No!!!!! And that leads to the second part of the problem. Too often people assume someone is not doing what they should, rather than giving people the benefit of the doubt. We should assume the best of intents of the people around us. That creates an environment of belonging. I would rather assume people are doing the right thing for the right reason and be wrong without knowing it than assume they are doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason and be wrong without knowing it. We help everyone belong when we just assume their best intentions.
There is another edge to this sword though. On many issues the prophets, the proclamation, etc., acknowledge that general rule and the possibility of exceptions. In other cases that doesn't happen. There is no exception stated about the law of chastity. Sexual union is to happen between a man and woman married to each other. If someone feels they are an exception to this law, then we have a problem. Thus, the difficulty of acknowledging there are times where there are exceptions is that sometimes we start to think God will give us inspiration to go against prophetic counsel on an issue where there is no exception. We must be very careful of this.
So, I would say that we should assume the best about people, make sure we personally know what the prophets are really saying, and then align our will with God's.
I hope that helps.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful question! I should just say amen to what Kerry wrote and leave it at that, I am on the same page with what he wrote. But I will add my own experience to this comment as this is a topic which has come up recently in my family.
To answer your question about “people who are uncomfortable at church” directly I would say tell them to keep coming. Invite them, include them, find ways to get to know them and their situation. Offer support, love, service and help them to find comfort with the Ward family. We are all imperfect people trying to find our way.
As for me, I want to be very slow to judge others and I want to assume that others have good intentions and are trying their best. I have much compassion for those who struggle, I struggle, and I want to be a good listener and help where I can.
As for what we teach in Church I will start by saying that the Church exists to help individuals and families reach exaltation. Church is a place where we can come together and learn and put our collective efforts towards reaching lofty goals both spiritually and physically. For us to be effective requires as much unity as we can muster. Construction companies, businesses, armies and all the like have to be pulling the same direction if they want to achieve anything of importance. It is imperative that we have a direction and a standard to strive for. I think of the Church as a coach who does not expect us to be perfect right now but if we are not pushing ourselves we cannot reach the best within us.
To lead the church “he [Christ] gave some apostles, and some prophets… for the perfecting of the saints…” (Eph 4) Prophets give us direction and standards to work toward. I believe they are inspired. I study what prophets say and have said and I work and pray for personal inspiration to know how to follow these teachings. Certainly there can be exceptions like Nephi killing Laban to cite a dramatic instance but if I feel prompted to deviate from a teaching I should be very careful to examine my motivations and influences. If I have personal revelation that is just for me, I also keep that to myself as it is “for me.” I teach what the prophets teach and I try to exemplify that council, not because I am a blind sheep but because I want to “come in the unity of faith” with my fellow Saints. The next Episode of TSAR with Brad Wilcox has a good discussion on this, check it out.
You touched on a subject that is both relevant and close to me, especially this year. I can only speak to my own experiences and my personal thoughts are that I want to be as unified as possible with my Ward family and the Church. I know we are all on our own journeys and I try not to judge others that might seem out of step. I’ll assume they are doing their best and I want to help wherever I can. My thoughts about individuals that struggle is what I said at the beginning: stick with the church. You will not find more truth, saving covenants and correct precept and principles like you will in our church. If you can find better, please let me know. I have searched, I cannot find more truth that I find here despite the flaws in human nature with any leader.
What do you think we can do to help those that struggle?
Yes I am interested in the talk given 1998-99by Calvin Stephens (the book of books) how the prophecy of Isaiah came true word by word of what is in the Bible, learned person can not read the book because is locked and continued with the all verse
I will ask Lamar
Topic that would be awesome would be about the ancient tradition found on the earth and how it could give us understanding. Have you listened to the ancient tradition podcast by Jack Logan would be interesting to get your opinion on it.
Loved you ed week classes!
Also would be great instead of doing come follow me, because really people should be digging into their own study for that. Go into more patterns from Isiah and the 12 tribes and how those are happening today.
So many things to work on! I haven't listened to that particular one.
Something stood out to me this time reading that I wonder if I'm off track or not. I found it interesting that Amalakiah cursed God (Alma 49:27). How can someone curse something or someone they don't believe? Since he is a dissenter, I guess I just assumed that he didn't believe in God anymore. So these are my thoughts. When anger infested his soul, it took over what he once believed, but what he once believed didn't ever fully leave. Otherwise, why would it say he "cursed God"? If anger is misplaced, or not addressed in a healthy way, it separates us farther from God and the bigger that gap gets, the more those feelings of who God really is gets buried. Does that belief ever fully leave or is it something that has just been buried and denied? Or is my assumption that you can't curse someone you don't believe in, false?
This is a very possible scenario. He may also have believed in God but just not the way Nephites did (especially if affected by anti-Christs). But I believe that everyone who dissents still has a lot of core beliefs deep inside that they don't completely shake off, even if they don't realize it. These beliefs affect them in various ways.
Interesting thought. Could be like you said that maybe belief never fully faded, or it could be he "cursed God" meaning he cursed the idea of God. I have heard atheists say something like "if god existed then [this or that] would not be" or "what kind of god would do [x]" I think of those as being a way to curse God. Not exactly sure how he cursed God, we'll have to ask Mormon/Moroni someday.
How old do you think Moronihah was when he was given command of the armies and Moroni retired? Didn't Moroni die around the age of 43? Just curious.
We don't know, but here is a guessing process: Moroni was 25 years old in about 74 BC. If Moronihah was his oldest son, and if he had that son at around age 21, then Moronihah was born about 70 BC. He became the leader of the military at about 57 BC, or when he was about 23. That is just guesswork. Moroni seems to have been around 42 or 43 when he died. So young. Probably not far off of average, but so young.
@@TheScripturesAreReal Moroni dies at 43ish which he retired a few years earlier, wouldn't that make Moronihah around 20 years old when he took command? Makes me wonder if they started families earlier in life, like in their teens.
@@ruthjamieson4072 I did my math based on when he retired, not when he died. But it is very possible that they had children earlier, very possible.
@@TheScripturesAreRealfrom 70-57BC is only 13 years old!
@@likeuntoammon You are right. Sorry, I typed the year incorrectly. I meant to type 78 BC, meaning that if Moronihah happened to have been born when Moroni was 21 then he was born in 78 BC. That would make him 21 when he took over the armies.
You mean prophets can see things we can’t see???? ❤😉
Somehow that does seem to surprise people. It is the point of a prophet after all, yet it bothers us when they tell us stuff that doesn't match what we know or expect. So short sighted.
Better than a spy drone! Thanks for the comment!
Hernandez Ruth Robinson Melissa Miller Thomas
What does that mean?