DNA Story: The Curious Case of Rick Lovering's Mother
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2022
- turiking.co.uk/
Rick Lovering's family isn't quite what he thought it was. A 40-year search has revealed a strange secret about his mum. For her entire adult life, she pretended to be someone else.
It was actually when my brother needed to get a passport, that she told us that she wasn't actually married to my father. Which started my long search of trying to find out who she really was, because she wouldn't tell us.
Rick's research found that his dad had been married before, but the relationship ended, and he moved away, but they never divorced. He then met Rick's mum…
Probably got her pregnant, so he just told my mum to assume his wife's identity. He hadn't seen his wife for a few years and just hoped and prayed that she'd never turn up. And I think once that lie began, you couldn't get away from it.
But they pretended to be married and went on to have six children, one of which was Rick. He now knows his mum lied about being Irish and also told stories of watching football in London, going to New Zealand and even being able to speak Russian. Rick still doesn't know which ones are true.
But this search changed when he had a DNA test. It revealed he had no Irish heritage at all. He found out his mum was adopted and then he made a new family tree, which has brought him here to Poulton, in Somerset, and the surname Church.
John and Emily Church, who are buried over there, would be my great grandparents, in other words my mum's grandparents. And they had 10 children, and there was one daughter, in particular, had a child we knew called Kathleen. So, I ordered Kathleen’s birth certificate and when the birth certificate arrived, it actually had the same birthday as my mum.
And I saw 12th of May, that's her, that's her.
Rick's written all this in a book, the next story though will be finding people in Somerset who knew his mum, or at least think they did. Andy Howard, BBC Points West in Paulton.
What an interesting journey. I'm delighted to say that we're joined by the DNA expert from DNA Family Secrets, that's Professor Turi King. Turi welcome to the program, it's nice to see you.
DNA doesn't lie does it, but people sometimes do?
Absolutely and just the sort of work that was done there is exactly the sort of work that we do on DNA Family Secrets, in terms of tracing people's relatives for them.
But you prepare people, don't you, in advance and say look this might not work out exactly as you hope it will. So, I mean it's an emotional thing isn't it.
It is and, I mean, I've been doing this sort of thing for a couple of decades now and it's always preparing people for the fact that they may have some unexpected findings, and the thing about DNA Family Secrets, is obviously we have on board, social workers, and we have, you know, psychologists and so on and so forth, who support our contributors all the way through the series.
We saw in Rick's story that that was all about, you know, an unmarried mother, and trying to sort of cover that up, now that wouldn't happen these days would it, but it was, I guess, fairly commonplace not that long ago?
It was, sadly, I mean this is the thing about unmarried mums it was something that was a source of shame. And it's such a sad story, to hear that she had to go along with this pretence for so many decades, and then taking that secret to the grave.
But social habits, social norms have changed, haven't they, so much now?
Oh completely and this is something, so when, on series one for example, we had one of our contributors, Margaret, who was looking for her… she was adopted, she was looking for her mum, and it was a not the same story, but a story where a woman from Ireland had given up her child for adoption. And we were able to trace her mum for her. These days we hardly really think about it at all, but in that time, it was, there was a big social stigma attached to it.
I'm going to take you back much further now, to the days of Richard III and the finding, under the car park, and your role in that, in identifying him from his DNA.
Yeah.
That must be the most exciting thing you've ever done?
Well, I don't know, DNA Family Secrets is right up there. So, Richard III, yes, I led the genetic analysis which proved that these were the remains of Richard III. So that was a really extraordinary project and because my background was in archaeology to be to begin with, I was able to be on the excavation and then go all the way through and do the genetic analysis and test the DNA, from the remains, against living relatives of Richard III. So yeah, that was that was an amazing project.
I'd love to have a longer chat with you, perhaps we will one day. Thank you so much for coming on and well done for the show.
Rick Lovering "Your Father and I Never Married"
www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Father-...
Representation: www.josarsby.com/turi-king
I only found out I was adopted 12 years ago, and I am a grandmother of 4. To say I was shocked at finding this out about myself is an understatement.
❤️
Yikes. How are you feeling about it all?
The one thing my parents did right was tell me I was adopted when I was little. I have no recollection of not knowing.
Every family has a story! My own beloved Dad found out when he was 56 that his older ‘sister’ was in fact his mother.
Also raised by his grandparents actor Jack Nicholson's actual mother was 17yo and unmarried when he was born. He was 37 when Time magazine informed him of their discovery about his birth.
My book about the story is available on Amazon
I just looked it up, but I’ll have to wait for it to arrive, it’s not on kindle. It’s a fascinating story!
Sadly it doesn’t seem to be available on Kindle.
Lovely lady and informative . Yes hav her on again! 🫠watching from BC Canada
Oh my gosh seriously just found out AFTER my comment here that Turi you are from Vancouver BC .👍🫠wow
Love Professor Tori what a smart woman plus such a kind and understanding presentation. Thank you DNA should have been available generations ago! Just think of how things would have been different ! Thank you
These poor people who began telling such monumental lies couldn't have ever imagined the arrival of DNA testing(slight sarcasm). My husband's grandmother told a story of who she wanted everyone to believe that she was. Little things over the years made the family question if she created an identify for herself at a time when there was no way for anyone to disprove her claim. I'm sure there are many, many such stories out there waiting to be unraveled.
I am a child of lies , when I found out the shock and pain was so painful, I still have days of disbelief and hurt . Yes I have approached an expert, but got no help with my questions . So that broke my heart even more . I have approached different agencies for support but just get fobbed off . So I will keep trying to find the truth until I die .
You shouldn’t feel sorry for them they choose to lie. Feel sorry for the actual victims the identities stolen and the children born into it.
Oh yes, skeletons falling out of closets all over the world with dna. My grandmother told a very bold lie about who my dads bio dad was. That lie stood for 94 years and 34 years of research. It fell when I matched at second cousin level to a man whose grandmother lived next door to my grandmother. She had 6 brothers and I figured out which was my grandfather. The lie crumbled. No way would my grandmother, back in 1924 know her youngest grandchild would spit into a tube, mail it off and match her lovers sisters youngest grandson. Not conceivable back in those days!
@@coltond2600 They had reasons. In our case, we suspect that my husband's grandmother was Jewish at least partly. Living in Germany and Poland during WWII, a safer identity was often the only thing they could see to do.
@@katherinewilmot2172. Same with me, I found out in my 60’s that I was born to an unmarried mother, my adopted parents (although I didn’t know they were not my birth parents then) are both gone now, before I found all this out about myself. I know how you feel, I still have days when I cannot believe it. Sleepless nights thinking who am I? But back in the 1940’s and beyond even into the 1960’s adoption wasn’t talked about, unlike nowadays. I want to take a DNA, I would love to know if I have siblings. But I had loving parents, even though not blood related I was still their daughter.
The question raised by this is what happened to the original wife? Did the father successfully do away with her? When a woman disappears it suggests something bad.
My dad returned from fighting in WW2 to find his wife with a child, so he re-enlisted with the army. He met my mum in 1947 and had 6 children with her. His wife was well and moved to Torquay and in 1965 managed to trace my dad as she wanted a divorce! She died in Bournemouth in 1978, unaware that she was officially mother to six children, as her name is on all our birth certificates.
@@richardlovering4920 Thank you for your reply Richard. How strange the things that are being found out with DNA technology.
@@amandajane8227 It certainly helped me. It was 1982 that mum told us that she was not married to my father (who died earlier that year, 20 years after they separated), but she would not tell us her true identity. She passed in 2008. It was only in January this year that, through DNA and my nephew building up family trees based on the matches, I finally discovered my mother’s birth name.
@@richardlovering4920 It's very sad that she isolated herself from her natural family but I can understand how hard it would have been to return to them and have to explain her earlier actions. Easier to keep living the lie. She had you and your siblings and you all would have been her complete world.
@@amandajane8227 My mum was an illegitimate child born in London. Her mum’s family in Somerset refused to support her and the new born child, so my mum was adopted. I do not know her adopted name or anything about her adopted family.
I just did my DNA
I'm from a closed adoption. Through Ancestry I found my father's full side of my family. Even met 2 aunts and a first cuz. We all only live within hours of each other. I just don't know a thing about my mom other than from the Choctaw rez. In Oklahoma. I understand not knowing where you cone from. Its like a whole in your identity.
@colleenstevens5121 I'm not in Oklahoma, but found your ancestry story so interesting. Thank you for talking here. /Did you always know that some part of you was Native American? Or was this concealed by your adoptive parents? /I can't help but think that someone who knew your bio father in the time before you were born, also knew of your mother. Could it be possible that they attended the same school or college? (Could try a School Yearbook.) Or, where was your Father working in that year before you were born? Perhaps your mother had a link to that workplace? /I'm sure you have also considered other, more complex, scenarios. Like your father being married at the time.
/Somebody knows some small piece of information. 🌿 I very much hope that you can uncover some of the answers you are seeking. /Do you understand the reasons behind a 'Closed Adoption' ? Does that mean neither parent ever wanted their identity to be disclosed? Or was this adoption managed by a Church organization?
I always knew my mother was adopted by her mothers brother and her birth certificate claimed her to be her mothers husband as the father, although they had already had 2 kids mum wasnt wanted A DNA test gave my mum an unexpectedly large amount of German DNA and some new DNA relatives with the same so we finally figured out my mums dad was a well known artist called Rudolf Haybrook who must have been her mothers rebound boyfriend when her husband left her. The weird part is that my mum is also an artist and her adoptive parents not at all, DNA unlocked a 90 year old secret
Not the first to have this happen
Amazing DNA
My aunt, my fathers sister, unexpectedly discovered her mother in Law was never married. My uncle war born just before his father died and so never knew him. His father was a rich businessman who had two families at the same time. After his death his legitimate, for lack of better word, family immediately cut off all money going to my uncles family which included my uncles 5 siblings. This left them in poverty. My aunt never mentioned it to my uncle because she believes he never knew or was to embarrassed to mention it. This meant he was also unaware he had a number of half brothers and sisters in the other family.
Wow, she DOES own a different top! Lol I see so many comments on the DNA secrets videos about Dr King always wearing the same clothes.
Could be because several segments of different stories are recorded on the same day.
My ex husband was adopted. He was told his biological father was Portuguese. He met older siblings and they too said his father was Portuguese. A DNA test on our son proved that there was no Portuguese in him, but there was Irish, which I do not have at all. The conclusion was that my ex husband's father was Irish. Why the family felt the need to dress him up as Portuguese is anyone's guess.
The stories of life are way better than the cold light of DNA.
I know my father... an excellent father! an orphan and no DNA on heritageI'm so sad.....
There are, in YT, reviews of, or reports about, comparing the different DNA-test vendors. Each of them has a strength in certain parts of the world population and in that, they differ. So if you know the ethnic background, you can use that to select another vendor and thus opt for higher chances of a hit. Over time, each vendor gets more data and this helps them to refine their analysis models. Looking for family members requires individuals that share an ancestor with you to have used the same vendor, or there will not be a family hit. But, as vendors build their models from adding to their databases, their insights in ethnicity change or refine too. So, (a) go to another vendor, (b) today's result of no family member may change into a hit tomorrow, when someone with a shared ancestor has taken the test with this vendor of yours. Note that less wealthy parts of the world are underrepresented. I would expect that countries where family records are still relatively modern and lineage is difficult because of that may see a boom in people taking these tests. Also note that media attention about these tests demonstrate one thing - science tells us that women will pass on a secret within 20 minutes after it was relayed to them - namely that women can keep a secret when it is about the father of their child. In many cases this may be an opportunistic way to form a bond with a new mate, it is an expression of their genetic programming to prefer an unrelated mate when ovulating but a related mate when they're not in heat (the tragedy of marriage), and then there is a fraction of cases, probably significantly large, where the mother may have felt that the sex with a man making her pregnant was not consensual. Either in the heat of the moment, or as regret later on - her not wanting to pass that on to her posterity and thus placing a load on the shoulders of that posterity, is maybe the only respectable reason for a mother to keep her mouth shut about the father of her child.
And, there's a "public" database of genomes of individuals where you can upload your own genome to and next increase your chances. I'm not sure about the name, but this has been used internation ally e.g. by law enforcement. If your test vendor allows you to download the underlying genome data in the format that you can upload to that database, then you still have an option for the same price you already paid.
@@jpdj2715 I used Ancestry for original DNA test and my nephew built up extensive family trees. It was only when I gambled on getting another test with MyHeritage that I found a match which eventually led to finding my mother’s family.
If you have his Name and date of birth and SS number ,try using an organization called Find People Fast, they do the work for a small fee.
Do you any facts on him?his birth date , place of birth , his SS number, his adoptive parents ?
What is the point of all this?
Lying evry where in those days Oh no don't tell anyone the truth ,
"social mores" LOL Its a Latin word .. pronounced more-ays
Thought the headline said The Curious Case of Rick's Loving Mother.
Selfish woman and man.
They sad she had to take another name please. She stole their fathers first wife’s name and they both were ok with it. They should have been caught. Just horrible. Thank god for dna testing the host is right dna doesn’t lie but people sure do.
As my father’s wife’s name appears on all six children’s birth certificates, she is officially my mother, even though she had no idea about our births! My father returned from fighting in the war in 1944 to find his wife with another man’s child. That was the last time they saw each other, though his wife did contact him by letter in 1965 to ask for a divorce.
Wrong how can she officially be your mother that’s sickening to even say and you seem to be ok with it. Was it wrong for his first wife to have an affair yes maybe it is another man’s child maybe not. I mean after all if your mother and father can lie about your mothers name all your life who knows what else they lied about. His fathers first wife is no way legally your mother your mother and father committed fraud for decades.
@@coltond2600 It was definitely another man’s child as my father had been fighting in Italy for two years.
There is not much I can do as far as the real Marie’s name appearing on our birth certificates. The important thing is that I DO know who my real mother is as she raised her six children, pretty much single-handedly, as my parents separated when I was about 5 years old.
Your mother desecrated this woman’s name by stealing it for all of her years. Now you do as well by saying she’s legally your mother easy to change the names on the birth certificate if you have you mothers real name.
@@coltond2600 Richard is right, that's what the 'official'/legal birth record shows. He says the original wife died in 1978, and the fake wife/real mother and the father are both dead, so what is anyone supposed to do to 'correct' this? Consider, hundreds of thousands of UK birth certificates show a MAN who is not the true biological father, and yes in the long run that makes him the 'official' father in the record. Good luck changing a historical birth certificate based on amateur assessment of some cousin-matching DNA tests, no matter how good the research is.
Not "social mors." Pronounce it right. You're on TV.
It's puzzling that someone who is a native English speaker, a tv presenter, and lives to a mature age but doesn't know how to say it correctly and nobody has corrected him.
@@sunway1374 The BBC used to have a pronunciation unit contributed to by top academics, but I think it got axed and now BBC pronunciation is almost as sloppy and ignorant as independent TV. Embarrassing
Not sure why it's a bad thing that someone should be ashamed of sexual irresponsibility, adultery and conceiving children who will grow up fatherless and probably poor and definitely less advantaged than children who grow up with married parents. The fact that you're messing up lives and that your irresponsible behavior has consequences for society is actually something you should be ashamed of? Why is it that our society holds people responsible for selfish behavior or heedless behavior in every realm of society, but as soon as people bring about chaos, lies, poverty (which the rest of us subsidize) and neglected, unsuccessful children by their sexual irresponsibility, we praise it as a good thing we should support? We're supporting intergenerational inability to form stable families, the foundation of a secure and prosperous and safe civilization. As the decades since the sexual revolution roll on, fewer and fewer people marry, stay married and give kids the best chances in life. We cause all the problems in society directly by tearing up the rules about marriage and children going together, then applaud our enlightenment as the society goes up in flames around us. If you see a corrupt, divided and dangerous society around you, thank the sexual revolution. Your great-grandparents didn't make this mess; they made stable families. Thank the hippie generation.
Seriously? You think because people were married they were happy or secure? Very nieve.
@@MsPinkwolfagreed. A lot of stuff went on behind closed doors. Abuse was kept hidden. Many things were kept hidden. There was still plenty of illegitimate children but often ended up left abandoned at church doors (for example) or chucked into orphanages. There was the good old days of unmarried mother homes where most of the young mothers were forced into adopting their children. Not sure why anyone would hold those days in such high regard.
Have you heard about the priests who fathered children? Hardly hippies but responsible for many births and didn't take any responsibility.
Or the old aristocratic family heads who founded and funded 'bad girls homes' for so-called wayward servant girls as a way to avoid their own responsibility or that of their, often rapist, sons. Nothing to do with hippies.
Well ... the people involved in this particular story were a bit old to be hippies - weren't they? And how do you define marriage? I've got ancestors pre-registration (early 1800s) who weren't affiliated to a particular church for most of their lives. They were a committed couple and eventually got formally married, christened and also had all six children christened as one single ceremony.