People judging Squall harshly forget that he is a literal war orphan, who lost all his friends as they got adopted, lost his sister as she got taken away and closed himself off to protect himself at a very early age. He went from an orphanage to a military school and that's it. Everyone Squall loved left him, so he didn't want any more friends and it took him a lot of time to get out of that mindset. (probably a big part was when he thought seifer was dead and thus saw his own future in that)
Yeah, I saw a lot of myself in Squall as a teen when I played this game and a big part of that was his abandonment issues. I've matured more as an adult and on replays I think he's unnecessarily harsh to Quistis and Zell but Squall isn't that mature yet, he has angst like most teens and doesn't always say what he should at times, which is pretty human.
Squall suffers from what I like to call "Holden Caulfield" syndrome. He's well written, but people are put off by elements of his character. I think the complaints of him being emo and whiny are pretty superficial personally but that might just be me.
And a child soldier at that. When he graduated balamb garden he was just 17, meaning he started combat training earlier than that. People can call emo are usually double standard Cloud fanboys who wouldn't even take into the account that Cloud is a grown-ass man and Squall is still a teenager. Boo hoo Cloud got exPeriMenTeD by Hojo blah blah blah.. He still bitched-out for 2 years in Advent Children and never got over it. Squall basically carried the responsibility of the entire Balamb Garden (The entire military school base of operation) on his shoulders while he's still learning to deal with his problems, all because of the headmaster dropped it on him on a wimp. While Cloud's got his panties up in a bunch with his white haired crush. Squall got ice-picked, literally, thrown into the river by the woman who raised him, wake up, jailed, and tortured. Yet still find the strength to come back and save everyone instead of bitch and whining like a vegetable on a wheelchair. You tell me Squall is emo? Then Cloud must be a bitch. And beside, all those dialogues were his inner thoughts, he didn't say it out loud. If they didn't like reading it they shouldn't have probably played FF8. All kinds of bias bullshit being thrown to FF8 by salty FF7 fanboys. All because of Lionheart is the better version of Omnislash.
This was my first ff game. Changed my life. Made me a lifelong fan of the series. It has issues but I am willing to overlook them for all the stuff I love about it.
me too, first ff game, first ps1 game, and i knew this from a magazine, before i bought the ps1! i dreamt to play this game and after bought the ps1, i played this and got amazed with the FMV
Something I always found interesting is Squall and Irvine are the youngest party members, but both of their character arcs are them playing at being grown men with these rough exteriors because that's what's expected (They're both the best at their respective skills and are somewhat revered by their headmasters for this skill), but when you peel that away, they're really just scared and insecure teenagers who don't know how to genuinely open up to people. And for me that makes the assassination mission so interesting in terms of their character arcs since they have this moment together where they're forced to confront this about themselves by recognizing it in one another.
When Irvine was choking in that moment and couldn't find the confidence to do it.. I cried.. I felt that so much.. And then he tried... and failed (by no fault of his own) and I'm just so happy that Squall had told him that even if he failed, not to worry. He'd take care of the rest. AHHHHHH
it all adds up to the fact he was basically set up to assassinate his own foster mother, that's the essence of a kid forced to grow up. Incredible storytelling
thats what happens when you pretend to do a role. Like Seifer, everyone thought HE was the best until he went insane pretending to be a knight. Anything that threatens that secure role makes them realize the truth and that they are just children and just trying to live up to the roles other people have given them.
What I really love about it, is its art style. FF7 is very real world related. FF9 is classic medieval steampunk. But FF8 isn't really classic sci-fi or something. It has elements from all three styles. It feels like a post apocalyptic world that is frozen somwhere between the ages. Which kinda fits the whole time compression narrative. Besides that the game has a lot of elements that are connected together but actually didn't make that much sense in particular. And that created a feeling that the game actually had much story to hide that actually wasn't told. For some it appeared like just bad made. For me it created a athmosphere of mysteries through the whole game, which was fed by locations like the centra ruins, shumi village, the Ragnarok and the aliens, Lunatic Pandora or the Deep Sea Research Center. Everything just felt so thrown in like whatever, which always made me thinking about who build that and what actually happened to it.
Oh yeah, FF8 is gushing with inspired world building. Man, I wish they did more with the Lunar Cry in particular. When I see the moon transform into a giant eyeball that zaps monsters onto the planet and also wipes out civilizations, my brain REALLY wants to know what's up with that? The cynical part of me says "It's just a cool visual, quit asking questions", but the conspiracy part of me can't stop thinking about all the implications there. Are all the monsters in that world space invaders from the moon, like are they born there or what? I'm also kind of curious why Hyne himself came from, but then again, most real world mythologies don't give concrete answers to stuff like that.
@@SwanCC As I know Square Enix, they don't throw in things just because it's cool. If you read the ultimanias and the FF Wikia, you can see a massive difference between the concepts and the final product. They had to cut out so much on every final fantasy game because of time, money and technical limitations. Their reputation for being overly ambitious is no coincidence. But it turns out to be a good thing because now they have massive material they can work with in the remakes. And since the they chose the multiple part concept, they actually aren't any limits like that anymore. So I'm sure there will be an FF8 remake. As well as FF6 and 5. Maybe from a different team but I would be actually fine with that. Better than nothing.
@@Evidancer Sadly ff8 can't be remade. Because the singer of "Eyes on Me" had some BS in the contract that makes it very difficult for SE to do it. I can't remember all the details but Square basically said 'we're never making a contract like that again' and its part of why we havent gotten a remake. Due to some contractual BS. In other news, I'm not sure I'd want them to remake it. As much as I loved FF7:R... they flipped me off. I preordered it at the $100 level for my ps4. Then they went "LOL now you gotta buy a ps5 to continue." Which means for me, continuing ff7:r will cost $560-$2000 for anything past part 1. Then, to add some clarificiation ff8, and Chrono cross are the ONLY non MMO's i played for TEN FUCKING YEARS. because I loved both games so much. (semi) Recently, SE 'remastered' Chrono cross' just after their crossover event, and in the crossover event trailer, the animations were beautiful, the character models as well. then they released the remaster. it was worse than fan ports to emulators. The graphics were worse than the original. The game had bugs that were never in the original. Basically, the TLDR is they made an AI upscale everything, gave it a coat of cheap paint, and then slapped the Radical Dreamers game with it. It was Nostalgia-bait-cashgrabbing. As much as I want remakes and remasters, I no longer trust SE to do it, without corperate greed getting in the way.
@@aka-47k yep. And blood. Sadly people in circles like mine kept telling people don't let the. Censorship anything. "OH come on its only X, chill bro" And now games are censored in so many ways as to barely be recognizable in so.e cases. Boiled frogs.
Final Fantasy always feel exciting to me to replay again. Something about the set up, the school, the dorm life, the iconic music, the you're an elite force, the graphic. Idk, it has timeless appeal to it.
Another aspect that's nice is how everyone is a crew. There aren't randos who join your party because their goal happens to be in the direction you are heading, so everyones got a similar stake in the story.
These days, people only care about graphics, but I like how some of these older games look. I'd rather play something from the 90's than one of the pieces of crap they put out now. Most people don't understand because...ooh, that water looks amazing!
I suspect a lot of the hate is due to people playing it before they were old enough to appreciate its complexity. It was my first, but I played it when I was maybe 19, a bit older than the characters, and going through a similar development - if I'd been 12, I don't think I would have got that. I love 7 too, and like 9 & 10, but they've always seemed a bit simplistic by comparison.
@@stegsjenga5088nah I played ff8 when I was like 10 years old and it’s my all time favorite. I played ff7 after and I remembered it wasn’t as entertaining and good so I never finished it 😅. Maybe my 10 year old self mentality was different but even as an adult, I’m not really into ff7 but I love ff8 and ff9, followed by ff6. FFX was kinda corny and mediocre to me as well. I never got passed ffX so idk about others but I don’t like that first person POV games
This game does something very unique when it comes to narrative in the form that it often shows to the player what squall's thoughts are, whilst never letting those complicated inner monologues out for the othyer characters to comment upon. You get such a fantastic painting of squall's - and only his - characterization through these frequent thought bubbles, it made him one of the most relatable ff protagonists to me. At the same time this is both 100% the way to go and something no other entry should consider, since it makes this game's special parallel narratives so unique and interesting
I have a habit when I'm returning home from a trip to listen to the Balamb Garden theme when I'm effectively driving down my home street. Always just gives me instant, soothing "home at last" vibes.
If i remember correctly, Basch was supposed to be the main character of 12, but then they changed it late in development to penelo and vaan to make it appeal more to a teen audience
Oh my God thank youuuu!!!! That moment where Quistis pushes Squall to save Rinoa is such an underrated moment. If you think about it, Quistis has no reason to save Rinoa. She has her mission, Adel is on earth and it's her duty to stop it. Not only that, freeing Rinoa might endanger the entire world because she be possessed. Rationally, through the eyes of a SeeD or Instructor, the best move is to let her go. Rinoa's gone, and it gives Quistis the opportunity to make her romance with Squall work in the same vein as say how Laguna moved on from Julia to Raine. Right before this scene, she was jealous of Rinoa, implying she wanted to have Squall save her instead. But she still saves Rinoa. She pushes Squall to save her. Throughout the game, Quistis struggles to define herself. Is she the responsible instructor, is she the one for Squall, etc. But what Quistis wants, is the best for her friends no matter what. You see her abandon her post in the assassination mission because she felt bad for Rinoa, even after being trapped inside the house, Quistis still worries about her. When Quistis sees Squall all broken after being left by Rinoa, she's essentially reliving the moment where she decided she wants to be like a sister for Squall, wherein Squall states that he fights so that Ellone can come back. She wants to guide this kid who's lost in his life. Quistis felt family in him. She ran away from her parents because they didn't fit together. But with Squall, Edea and the others, she had a family. It's all she ever wanted. So at this moment, she finally finds herself. She isn't an instructor, she isn't Squall's lover, She's his family. She realizes who she is. She redeems herself by successfully saving Rinoa unlike the assassination mission, but also by pushing Squall to risk it all save Rinoa, just as how Ellone did much the same, encouraging Squall to risk his life to save Rinoa, showing us that Quistis really become his sis. Thank you for this! I love VIII too. This game is special to me, and I love writing about it. Here's a subscriber! You earned it!
Quistis is a greatly underappreciated character. Making this video helped me to remember why I liked her so much in my earlier playthroughs. I wish I could have spent more time elaborating on the orphanage flash back stuff, because there are a few great "easy-to-miss" lines in there that help to recontextualize everyone's character. She has a line similar to "I thought it was love, but in the end I was just trying to replace big sis", which I think adds weight to the early interactions between her, Squall and Seifer.
@@SwanCC Yeah! Quistis might be my favorite character in Final Fantasy. Despite what little we got, she's a well developed character and someone I connect to a lot. I could talk about her more than some Protagonists in Final Fantasy. Even if she wants to be with Squall, Quistis is still supportive of Rinoa. She's everything she isn't and she learns from her, despite once being the instructor. When Rinoa falls into a coma in Disc 2, she's the first one to immediately rush to her aid, and even brings Squall's attention to her. By the end, if you bring her to the flower field with Rinoa in Disc 3, she's moved on, and she guides Squall. Her advice to picture a brighter future in Ragnarok is essentially what Squall ends up telling Rinoa, allowing him to comfort her and give her hope. It's also worth noting how Quistis started off being confused about her feelings for Squall, and ended up figuring out, while Rinoa figured out her feelings for Squall early on, but upon understanding the whole Sorceress vs SeeD dynamic, she ends up being confused until she lets go of her fears. She's most definitely underappreciated!
@@lionsheart6138 I completely agree that Quistis has a character development arc toward becoming a "big sister." Interest reinvigorated by Seán's video, I was thinking of posting here about it myself--and here I find someone else making the point! Well said. On another site I argued you can track this arc in small steps throughout the game; can find if anyone's still interested to discuss or go further into the topic. AlleywayJack does a good video, too, though I'd say there remains room for discussion.
@@831ACH Yeah. I think her arc is very underappreciated, and I think its bery nice in a game with many romantic relationships, with some playing big roles in the plot (Cid-Edea, Laguna-Julia/Raine, Squall-Rinoa,) Quistis's arc shows us that's it's not the most necessary relationship. Among the main party, she's the only one without a romantic relationship, not even an implied relationship, yet she's still happy because she still has familial love.
That whole situation during the assassination mission was a mess lol! They prioritized personal things above their mission more than once, which shows why Quistis was demoted. Rinoa was never a bright one. The worst part was when everyone was pushing Squall to save Rinoa when Balamb was being attacked....while students were dying around them. Yes, worried about who hooks up over your fellow peers losing their lives during an invasion.
The Princess Edea assassination mission, was and still is, one of the most epic experiences I ever had in gaming. My 10 year old self was absolutely blown away back when the game launched. Also, I remember the disc change happened right before or after.. so I thought the game crashed and I went through a existential crisis 😂 EDIT- EASILY the goat soundtrack of the series.
@@wearedoomed9374 Not only that, the next disc also started with a somewhat long Laguna bit before we had learned that those were glimpses into the past. First time I played that bit, I legit thought Squall was dead. 😅
I think, I really liked Squall as I had cancer at a really young age and watched a lot of my friends die who also had cancer at the time. Then around 8 years old my biological mother was cut out of my life (she was physically abusive to my sister and I). In my younger teenage years my father became alcoholic and was verbally abusive and on occasions physically abusive. I really withdrew from the social part of life. I did not want to be at home and was hesitant at making new friends. I was cold and short with responses to others. All to protect myself from future pain. As for romantic relationships I have always been with women that have "forced" their way into my life due to my shell of self protection.
FF8 was my first in the franchise and I love it. FF8 has a huge soft spot in my heart forever. I bought so many copies of this game as a kid cause I wore out the disks (or it just stopped working). I wish a real remake would happen for FF8.
It's totally possible, but it's gonna take some time for sure. With FF7 and 9 remakes on the rails, I can only see a FF8 remake coming out by the end of the decade. It's my favorite FF and it has a ton of potentional.
FF8 was my first FF game as well. Before I even played it, a friend in my neighborhood had the strategy guide. We would play in his backyard with the book being our guide. Using sticks to fight trees and level up characters from the book... collecting broken safety glass and putting it in pouches for "gil" to purchase items. Pretty nerdy and weird looking back but it was honestly so fun. I was already hooked on the game before I even owned the discs lol. It holds a special place in my heart for sure.
This was my first FF. I must have asked for 7 and by the time Xmas came around 8 was out. I loved it, I always remember that it's my favourite. Any time a vid or article crosses my path I'll devour it and swear that I'm going to actually get round to starting my second playthrough. But the thing is, I barely remember any of the actual plot or systems, all I've got is vibes. And the memory of a scratch on disc 4 crashing the game during the final cutscene. It's like a wild dream that I woke up from just a moment too soon.
You hit the nail on the head with Squall. This is still my favorite RPG of all time, and I loved it as a kid (5th grade first playthrough) more than 7 (7th grade first playthrough), and as I've gotten older it's only deepened. The game had such a deep pool of adult life you don't realize it as a kid. It's amazing.
uhh, 8 was so bad i completely ignored 9 uh... 10 made me walk away from FF.. "they are never going to fix this" then i saw what they were doing with 10-2... wow.. so sad came back later in '06 to try FF12 and WOW... 12 is the only one i came back years and years later to emulate and enjoy again.. i tried 7 for a hot minute but, got to junon, and was bored and quit... made my peace with 7, maybe in 10 years i'll try again.. 12 on the other hand... so dam good
"why would an Sorceress need Guardian Forces?" Ultimecia actually uses multiple Guardian Forces during the story, on Disk 1, she uses Carbuncle to Animate and give Auto-Reflect to the Iguions that attack Rinoa, and on Edea's final Fight, she is junctioned with Alexander, and in Tiamat's description, its stated that Tiamat is a Guardian Force as well. i like to assume all bosses on Ultimecia castle are actually her Guardian Forces that she uses to seal YOUR guardian forces powers. i also like to think that Griever was actually created during the final fight, by Ultimecia using a old trick your party has been using the entire game: Drawing GFs from your enemies, but that is a stretch.
It's not a stretch at all. If you scan Griever, it literally says "In Squall's mind, the strongest GF." That's the hint. Griever was drawn by Ultimecia from Squall's mind during the fight.
I’m still one of the original FF8 fans, never hated in it. It’s hilarious to me whenever I see videos like this because the context of it coming out (early internet) meant that most of us were over-leveled, over-using junctioned magic, over-abusing GF summons. It was still earth shattering when it came out, I had friends come over and we’d do nothing but play Triple Triad for hours.
Final Fantasy 8 is literal a Multigenerational Love story involving the parents of the protagonists, Great video my friend I loved every moment of it. I would love to see it get the Remake treatment the way 7 is....oh well what can ya do.
My biggest problem with the Junction system was the limitation of 9 spells per draw, making it take way too long to steal 100 of a spell from an enemy.
If they remake the game I hope they don't have the player draw but every action would have a mug magic type deal where depending on the GFs equipped the action would draw none, small, normal, or many magics. Seems like a pain for the developers though because they would have to have a long table for each GF set with their preferable actions. And then they could make it even more complex based on monster type, or monster strengths & weaknesses.
If they do remake the game, I wish they would get rid of leveling and have you junction a main magic instead of leveling. Then the game would reward you for finding stronger magics and players wouldn't mindlessly grind for exp, and they would have to be smart about finding better magic from interesting draw points, items, or monsters.
The way I always justify it is (A) since the most optimal way to play this game is getting powerful without killing monsters and leveling up, and you do this through junction, think of drawing as your grind. You can break the game if you want to, and just getting more than 9 per draw would make it even easier to do, and (B) you don't even really have to draw 99 of each spell. Turning monsters into cards, or just playing the card game like a maniac, and then turning cards into spells/items is the real key to success. Obviously, this is my favorite FF game. I like how it's not the usual fighting monsters to grind thing, and also the difficulty is very flexible in that by choosing whether you kill monsters or turn them into cards you can make the game as hard or as easy as you want to. You can very easily break the game, too, but that's also optional.
1:35 I’m old now, but first played VIII as it released as a teenager. This trailer, along with the intro CG was mindbreaking (I remember pre-YT, people even ripped and shared the cutscenes on Limewire). I don’t think I was more blown away by a Final Fantasy trailer until the first “Versus XIII” trailer, when that game was supposed to release on PS3.
I also though Rinoa was Ultimicia, there was just too many similarities. Ultimicia is the opposite reflection of Rinoa,Ultimecia is wearing red dress, Rinoa is in blue, Ultimecia has white hair, Rinoa has black, devil wings vs angel wings .....Griever was the ultimate hint because after Rinoa lost her self, this was the only painful memory of her past and of her lost love. I believe that Angelo was actually her GF and after all the time and grief she experienced, she transformed into Ultimecia and Angelo became Griever (Cat looking GF). Ultimecia was in a trap, she wanted time compression to escape from it. After we killed Ultimecia, Rinoa was lost in the time space, but this time she knew what promise they have made with Squal and both of them met. Ironically this was Ultimecia wish as well. If Rinoa finds Squal and he is alive Ultimecia (Rinoa from the future) does not exist.
@@mockingjay4776 If developers debunked this theory why they have given Ultimecia Rinoa's weapons in Dissidia? Each one of us has different perception when playing the game and if you can't see all the clues it means that you are dumb. They never said it directly that Squall is Laguna son as well, so if you don't pay attention while playing you might not even see that Squall-Rinoa love is reincarnation of Laguna (Squal's father) and Julia (Rinoa's mother) love which was not mean to be. FF8 left so many plots open for interpretation, which makes a story good. The story writers of FF8 never gave clear statement, whatever was changed during game development phase remained unanswered.
@@BillyBowlster yep, also I watched now the ending and I saw Ultimecia face flashing on Rinoa during the time compression phase 10:40 ua-cam.com/video/HA2Fh-UHqwc/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Jon2ne1Gaming
@@mockingjay4776 This theory debunked how? By them just saying no? No sarcasm here a real question. Could it be possible they said no to keep some of the mystery of the story up to individual interpretation like it was intended? Just something to think about.
Idk if its the dumbest theory Rinoa as Ultimecia could be a simple she forgets who she was but drawn to that time to become one with her younger self. Perhaps in Ultimecias timeline Squall died which drove her insane and wanting to return to the past. No one went into details how her timeline was destroyed. Perhaps Squall dying made her snap and destroy her world. Without her memory she tries to kill him again as for not speaking the same in some cases of amnesia a new personality can take over completely. For example when i was a kid my biological parents tried to kill me. My adoptive parents knew my biological ones according to them starting out i had a completely different personality but after the incident i changed completely and i had no memory who i was. In the end all we are as people is memory losing that can lead to another personality completely.
Definitely hit on the issue with junctioning and leveling. On their own, I don’t mind either mechanic, paired together, they work against one another. Had they forgone the level scaling and just had areas with monsters that were harder to fight, I think it would have lead to a more organic play through. Though I won’t lie, I did enjoy figuring out how to break the game on my own as a kid.
I just finished this game for the first time and I absolutely loved it. That final fight with Ultimecia had me so hyped and stressed (because my build was so unoptimized).
The characters, the worlds and the music. FF7, FF8 and FF9 really made my childhood along with other rpgs like the suikoden games, legend of legaia and mana, chrono cross, tales of eternia and so many others. They just don't do rpgs like they used to anymore.
Ff8 is the game that defined me. It was so formative and I took so much from its world that looked like my own on a warm summer day. From the (for the time) amazing graphics and music, to the characters I grew to love. Through Squall's adventures I was able to learn how to turn from an introvert into someone who can be brave, kind, mindful to other viewpoints, loyal, and even passionate. He is a fantastic character and I see why many people didn't like him - but he's closed off by design.
If I were to get a bit controversial. I think people secretly do like Squall's character, as I think a lot of the depictions of Cloud during the compilation of FF7 era has slowly molded him into Squall-lite. At least from my own interpretation. I see Cloud from FF7 and Squall as two very different characters, but that gap has slowly closed over the years.
@@SwanCC Nomura in particular paints Cloud as super emo during the whole Kingdom Hearts - Dissidia era. Fortunately Squall seems to the same guy in KH2 as he is in FF8.
@@TortleTalk Yeah, if you play FF7 in a vacuum, Cloud isn't emo at all. He can be uncaring, but he also can be hilarious, compassionate, cocky yet completely insecure and plain goofy. Hell, his "Let's mosey," line is one of my favorites in all gaming. The problem w/ Nomura is he LOVES brooding characters TOO MUCH (see FF13, where everyone is depressing) to the point they lack relate-ability and the audience doesn't care. When Sakaguchi was in charge, he knew how to balance those things out w/ lovable -human- traits. When it's only Nomura, we get KH/FF13 level characters without redeeming traits.
@@SwanCC I find it funny that people paint Squall so negatively and neglect Cloud when looking through that lens. That being said, I personally don't hate Cloud or anything, in fact I understand WHY he's that way and I like him as a character too.
I've never understood the criticism for the junction system entirely. Of course it had its flaws, but I don't think most RPG systems were exactly unbreakable. FF7 or Tactics are really loved but you can really unbalance it if you know what you're doing. FF8 just makes everything faster, for the sake of convenience. Heck, even more that that. As much as you can draw the hell out of the enemies to get OP, you can also grind to LV99 at any point of a game with a traditional level system. Again, FF8 just wanted to leave grinding behind, and tried to make the game faster. A side-effect of it was making it faster to exploit too. A mistake, but not a unforgivable sin in terms of game design in my opinion. You can have a lot of fun as much as you let yourself go with it.
I think it's worth noting the game's incredible direction. Like, the composition of the cutscenes and FMVs. I think it has the best direction in the series by far. I don't know what it is, but they seem to always find great shot composition and frame the FMVs in the most exciting ways. I think that is high praise considering it is surrounded by 7, 9, and 10. But it beats them all in this department. 8 also has my favorite bestiary in the series. Its monster designs are incredible and its redesigns are just as good.
This was my first FF as a 9-10 yr old this game captivated me, I’ve also played through it multiple times as I got older something about this game gives me a warm joyous feeling I love the nostalgia.
Rinoa isn't ultimecia however I firmly believe ultimecia is Squall and Rinoa's descendant. She could be their great great great granddaughter or something
I got into FF because of the FF8 demo that came with brave fencer musashi. The cinematic of the dollet sequence, especially quistis gunning down the spider robot was the coolest shit I'd ever seen as a kid and I just had to play it. Played it, loved it and started playing the other games from there
This was awesome, thank you for putting this together. This is the first pro FF8 video i have seen that actually understands and addresses the criticisms that I personally had for this game. Most pro FF8 videos just gloss over all troublesome aspects. I’ve been meaning to give FF8 another shot, especially since in my first play through i checked out of the story and completely ignored the crafting mechanic.
If you want the most comprehensive take on FF8, I found Resonant Arc's very, very long podcast series about it to be phenomenal. Definitely the best analysis of the game I've ever listened to. They're more on the forgiving side too, although do address some of its shortcomings in some length albeit with constructive criticism rather than "this sucks, you suck for liking this game".
I'm now 100% dreaming of a FF8 Remake where Enix actually deppens and fleshes out the story+characters and fully commits to the Rinoa is Ultimecia story
That's my dream. I really enjoy the 7 Remakes for what they are, but 8 was the one that really needed it more. It probably would even split into multiple games better than 7. It's just got a story that's a little too messy and rushed and I think a remake revising the script could work wonders here. And yes, making Rinoa into Ultimecia would honestly fix so much about the villain, add a tragic element to it all and further cement the core of the tale being a love story.
@@carebear1470 if ff8 remake ever happen, i hope squall and rinoa models will be based of the original ff8 game, not the remaster or any spin offs like dissidia
I wonder how many people, who played FF8 Actualy know that, Laguna and Raine were Squall's actual biological parents, and that Eleone was Squall adopted sister. That's why Squall called her Sis when they were kids in the orphanage...
Final Fantasy 8 had to die on that hill so that other RPGs could push forward. It's funny though, cause there are other "modern" RPGs that have similar level scaling frustrations. I kept thinking about moments like in Dragon Quest 11, or even FF6 when there is a "Dark World" scenario, and all the enemies of the game get remixed into harder versions. I feel like those are effectively the same thing in ways, albeit communicated better visually and in the story.
I think level scaling was a good and terrible idea. They realized they wanted build and strategy to matter more than grinding, but instead of removing the level entirely they added the confusing level scaling making grinding detrimental and in the same breath they also made the character building grindy defeating the original point. I feel like the game would be so much better if they removed levels entirely and made spells unlockable 1 of that you can attribute to stat like equipment, so you'd still have the character building of where you allocate your spells but without the grind. (an interesting take would be that if you use the equippped spell the stat it boost is disabled for the fight or maybe temporarily partially nerfed, so if you equip stronger spell you might still want to use them but you have to balance what spells you use and what you preserve for stats). The game was really close to being straight up genius with the character progression but it fell short and sadly nobody ever tried to refine the idea but I'm still convinced there is a lot of potential there.
@@Laezar1 Nothing will change on how fun for me it was to fight the right monster in the right level to get the draw/drop I needed from it, all there is to your comment is how the game could be more "lazy appealing" and maybe you are forgetting the game was made by the workaholic japanese people initially for japanese people and only then it came to the lazy americans. I've played many western RPGs as well and they mostly annoyed me on how they didn't want to piss me off by giving me hard work to do.
FF8 has arguably, the best Visuals, atmosphere and of course, MUSIC, surpassing even the legendary 7 on the PS1 FF franchise era.. FF8 was also the first attempt to actually put strategy on a turn based rpg.
I enjoyed the video. Just wanted to mention that Kitase has since elaborated on the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory and he took back his previous statement debunking it. I translated and uploaded a video of him talking about this topic, but the gist is: Kitase didn't write with that theory in mind but he acknowledges that there's a possibility Nojima and/or Nomura did since he knows they like inserting "hidden" details like that. He talks about how between 3 writers each of their interpretations could have been different. All he can say for certain is that the theory wasn't explicitly laid out in the final manuscript, which is why he was quick to shoot that question down when it came up to him in an interview (he said he wasn't prepared at all to receive a question like that). Another thing that was revealed was that SE has had internal debates about what to do with the whole Rinoa/Ultimecia theory for spin-off games and such. They've been aware of the theory for a long time (besides Kitase it seems 😂) and they weren't sure just how far they could go with it. But that part was probably clear given the references to it in Dissidia.
I’ve always loved FF8 - it was one of the first games I ever played and it blew my mind. Definitely not the best in the series but it’s undeniably unique.
Loved your video. Really resonated with my first time experience. And yes, no doubt Rinoa IS Ultimecia. Thank you for this. Also. This long video wasn't boring in the slightest.
FF8 is my favourite and changed my gaming life forever. The graphics at the time made FF7 look like it was a SNES game. It was a spectacle and truly epic.
Damn this is a great analysis vid. Loved that you mentioned about Squall being the “quiet type” which allows the player to project, start from scratch and relate easily. Which is also a good launchpad for what’s about to come character development-wise. I’ve never thought of that before til you mentioned it. FF8 is def my fave of all time cos of the story. Gameplay is frustrating but the story and time compression mindfuck is what made me come back for more. It’s been years but the story stays with me. Would love to play this again!!
This is a really nice video, honestly! I've been having a hard time getting into Final Fantasy VIII, and hearing about why people who love something love it so much can really help me appreciate it. I look forward to trying it once again, and seeing if I can't reach a better understanding of it!
The way you paced the video felt very fluid and relatively easy to consume despite its length. I really enjoyed this video even though I have never even seen gameplay of FF8 before today. Willing to give it a shot after this! Hopefully you'll make more videos of this nature in the future.
FF8 is my favorite game of all time and I appreciate the time and effort you put to make this video its always great hearing more and more people talk about this game and love it for the most part. I agree with the junction system and level scaling of enemies being a flaw as it makes the game unforgiving. I think the only thing I disagree with is that the story is messy or at least thats what I think you were implying in that section but regardless I thought you were incredibly fair and this is probably the best deep drive/critique of FF8 ive seen so far and overall a great video. cant wait to see you talk more about FF8 or really any other game
Damn, I'm really flattered to read all that. Appreciate you man. Messy probably wasn't the best word for me to use, but I definitely think the middle disk 2 to the start of disk 3 section could have been tightened up or paced out more. With all that information downloaded into my brain, I really appreciate the bigger picture it paints, but they definitely could have added a few more bread crumbs in the story itself. There are a few subtle ones throughout though, like Irvine talking to Squall about "SeeD never questioning their mission" right before the assassination pops off. I also think there are some NPCs that talk about Balamb being the only Garden that uses Guardian Forces? Or maybe it's in the school computer?
@@SwanCC but for real. I mourne this game. Because it just doesn't feel fully realized or fully throughout. Squall is just my least favorite character and he learns so incredibly slow. But I also believe games like ff10 are dated story wise and needs. Proper remake.
@@kevinvu5432 A part of me wants to see what these older games would look like if they were given the FF7 Remake treatment and updated for a new audience. I feel like 7, 8 and 9 in particular are the strangest to try and abridge, as you can only do so much with those faux 3D sprites to make them look good, and if you change the story you'd probably anger more people than you'd please. The FF6 Pixel Remaster might be the best example of what you can do outside of a full blown remake/genre swap like FF7:R.
This was my first ff game and my favourite, have played through it more than 10 times and this video somehow managed to show me aspects of the game that I didn't knew! Amazing video, the best I've seen about ff8! Congrats!
I remember being so enthralled with this game. Thinking more and more as I progressed through the game that it would actually outdo ff7’s amazing story line. Then disc 3 happened.
Final Fantasy 2’s twist was sort of basically expected if only because conquering heaven and hell is basically the only fantasy way to go beyond “I summon a tornado to ravage almost all civilization”. 9’s twist can be seen coming if you realize Zidane is the only creature that looks like a monkey. 10’s twist makes sense if you keep in mind evil religious fantasy tropes. However, Tidus being the character dreamt up by Sin, while revealed early, still has neat implications come 10-2. 15 does not actually have any twist: your person is Noctis, the goal is to stop Ardyn (and he was always suspicious), and you stop Ardyn at the price of years of Starscourge. The final battle is also just Ardyn vs Noctis as well.
I haven't been one to subscribe/buy into fan theories, but the Rinoa is Ultimecia one makes a lot of sense when listening to it rather than reading. I really like the thought that Ultimecia is the version of Rinoa that failed to find/save Squall and became the villain of the game. It made a lot more sense when explained here than just reading it and I will stick to that theory now. Love this video and how it shows the same way I feel about Final Fantasy 8
UA-cam recommendations can sometimes be on point and this was definitely one of them ! Still in the process of watching this but so far stellar work ! Looking forward to more videos from you and planning to back to your FFXIV video after this, keep up the amazing work !
I loved this video. 8 was my favorite as a child and it still is. Never thought about the fan theory of Rinoa and Ultimecia, but I will never look at the story same way. It was a great video
rinoa is ultimecia theory is backed with the ending theory where squall actually is dead. and she gone crazy at the ending seeing squall come back (u can notice only her can see squall)
I love FF8. FF7 was my first experience, and it stands out to me in terms of art style and theme. None of them have been as dark or industrial since. But FF8 managed to be NOTHING like it's predecessor, and yet is just as epic in every way. Also, FF7 always flirted around the love-story angle while never bringing it to the forefront, and FF8 makes it central. Rinoa's in real danger at one point, and you end up in space to save her. While in space you get what approximates a "date" on the Ragnarok. I also love how alien Esthar is, and I love the 3 gardens. The Galbadia vs. Balaamb garden battle is a great analog to Weapon attacking Junon/Midgar scenes. Also the monsters flooding from the moon, and the Sorceress angles are strange an interesting. The time-warping & Ultimecia/orphanage story was a bit of a turn, and I think that's the analog for the identity crisis of Cloud in FF7. Sometimes I think FF8 might be better than FF7, but they're so different and equally epic. The Junction system really screwed me up as a kid. I fumbled through Materia at age 10 or 11, and Junction really confused me. By the way, I'm working on a documentary about the legacy of the first PlayStation, and I've been re-writing and re-recording my dialogues soooo much. I feel your pain and appreciate the amount of work that goes into a video like this. People who haven't tried to make content like this just have no idea how much work it is or how difficult it can be to bring yourself to stick with or even start it back up.
im totaly there with u. ff7 was my first game, but ff8 is my true love. both are extremly good and i dont see point in argueing which one is better. i wished square could replacate the magic 20 more times, in the meantime golden age of ff's faded away after ff10
im about to watch this video it better not disappoint! jk everyone's views of ff games are sacred to themselves. love to hear other peoples experiences. thanks for the video.
I feel like FF8 is a game that is best enjoyed on a second playthrough. The more knowledge you have about the Cards, the Draw System, the Junction System, and the Side-Quest greatly increases the enjoyability of the game. One of my most memorable moments in it is the dungeon that Brothers is in. The game presents it as a "Go here and get this number" in the main quest, and you can totally just leave at any point, yet you just naturally feel intrigued to explore and solve the puzzle ending up with a cool boss fight and a miss-able GF.
I think had the studio not cut staff from the project half way through we would be talking about this game in a very difrent way today, I think some people's gripes with the game are legitimate flaws but then others who just like to debase absolutely everything about this game theres allot of unwarranted hate thrown this games way, I love 6 through to 12 but still to this day find 8 the most immersive and fun on replay and despite its flaws still one of the best games ive ever played, this game will go down as a missed opportunity, it seriously could have been a masterpiece but for those who love game know how special it truly is, all hail the Junction system ... Breezy still lives in my head
Fun fact about Ashe and Bosch's story. They were supposed to be the main characters of XII, but the director got put to task by the higher ups to put in Vaan and probably his friend too because the director's last game Vagrant Story had a gruff older protagonist (the Bosch analogue) and the higher ups said that one didn't do so hot so play to market expectations.
I remember on my first play through i farmed all my caracters to lvl 99 each so i can be ready for the final boss...little did i know how difficult i would be after that. I was convinced that the final act in the castle was extra hard compared to the rest of the game. Now i understand why it was...but when i really think about it, i think i made the right call because winning that last fight was incredibly satisfying due to it's difficulty, when i look at a speedrun and how easy they defeat bosses i can only think that i've had it better than most. One of my favorite game of all time
Our pizza boy dropped the demo in our yard and I found it one day. It was also my introduction to the series. It was my first true gaming experience. I've been playing this game on and off for the past 20 years.
This was a 2 day watch for me and I really enjoyed it. I never heard that fan theory before but I really like it. It would add so much to Ultimecia that was missing before and even flips the criticism that she came out of nowhere since she was actually your party member and even in the game logo all along. Not to mention, what a tragic way to turn out, and all she wanted was to see Squall again. This also explains Griever and why she would go to that specific point in the past as well both points really boggled me whenever I went through the game. I didn't know Griever's (the gf) name changed based on the ring though since I always kept it as Griever. I wish I had more to say about the video but only the last half is in my memory due to watching it across 2 days. I think there was something at the beginning that I didn't quite agree with but other than that I completely agree with this, especially the junction system. A lot of people give it crap but I thought it was a really deep and flexible system that was trying to be as good as, or better than, FF7's materia system without copying it. This was a long video and I feel like you could easily talk about this game so much more. ff8 > ff7 because Laguna and "man with a machinegun".
Hell yeah, glad you enjoyed it. There is absolutely a bunch I still could have said, but I couldn't think of a way to include it all without it being a 3 hour rambling mess. Had to cut talking about the Japanese translation, even though it has what is ostensibly the 'true' interpretation of Ultimecia. TL;DR: Ultimecia in the Japanese version "Draws" Griever from Squall's mind, making a monster from thin air... Somehow. Then she junctions herself to it (?). It creates tons of questions about Junctions and Drawing, and all you get is a thematically confusing fight against a lion monster who can use Quistis' best blue magic. In hindsight, there is tons of stuff I could have elaborated on. Been enjoying FF6 Pixel Remaster, and it got me thinking about ways they could have added unique abilities to the characters without having to leave them at low health. It's also made me appreciate being able to swap Junctions a lot more, because holy hell is managing gear on 12+ party members time consuming when the game is constantly swapping your party on you. Anyways, cheers man, hopefully I was able to keep you entertained for a while.
This was also my first entry into FFVIII and holy smokes is it intrinsically tied to my coming-of-age mind. I loved every moment of this video. You seem to love this game like one loves a true family member; you acknowledge the bad--even taking loving shots at it--while embracing it as something that is a part of you. I love the Rinoa is Ultimata hypothesis. I've been looking for a reason to replay this game as an adult, and I think I just found it!
Hey Sean, Greg from Atlus here. Congrats on another excellent video! I appreciate your discussion and use of the "death of the author" way of thinking. Personally I agree that the interpretation by the viewer of a work of art, of which video games are, are just as valid as the creator's interpretation. Speaking of "death of the author," we think you'd really enjoy Persona 4: Arena Ultimax. We've got a staggering roster of fighters from the Persona series that we can't wait for you to see.
Same, I also never had a problem with the Draw system since I was already used to Thief classes in older games. In which you would be stealing items from every enemy just like the draw system. I honestly feel like people complained a bit too much about something that wasn't as problematic as they thought
@@bloody4558 oh and I love drawing on the remaster! Speed boost plus the full atb bar in game cheats make it a breeze to draw. It's the only reason why I like the remaster 😅😅
@@fallenwing25 Very possible, FF7 enraptured people on multiple levels. Having grown with older FF games, I fail to see why people though ff7 was that special aside from the technological innovations. So I was immune to that effect. FF7 is a great game, but I loved the new Ideas on 8. 7 merely expanded on the systems of 6. 8 however did it's own thing, and it's story was also much more detached from the older games unlike 7.
Kitase has backed off his debunking of the Rinoa-is-Ultimecia theory! He says he was asked the question suddenly without time to really consider it. The script was written by three people, and the other two could have easily implied this.
I have played through this game in its entirety no less than a dozen times and never made the connection that Irvine hesitated in taking the shot because he never forgot that Edea was the woman who raised him. You're the first to point that out to me, so thank you!
Maybe because Irving's excuse of always choking in moments like that sounds pretty convincing in the heat of the moment. But Irving must had been really torn inside about being ordered to assassinate the woman who took care of them as orphan children, and very weirded out that everyone else in the group seemed pretty ok with it.
One of the changes i'd make on an FF8 remake is to make Junction take any magic that you've ever acquired and treat it like a full 100 stack. No need to stockpile, you get the first one and its unlocked. From then refining and drawing are only if you want to cast it during a battle. Might require some other rebalances with some of the top tier magic but that is something that could be accomplished. Have to agree with you on the start being too slow and tutorial heavy.
Honestly, if nothing else, the music from this title makes it an instant classic. This was the 2nd FF game i started, shortly after beginning ffx, literally only because i knew Squall by name. Although I love FFX and simultaneously have yet to finish 8, it holds this place in my mind where there's this little pocket of endless warmth bliss. Hearing the song just outside of Balamb garden, spending FAR too long trying to get a complete understanding of the junction system and grind for fish fins - the track just puts me at peace. Also Laguna's battle theme is seriously TOO good
FF8 is by far my favourite game. I adored the world, the characters were relatable and actually grew. The music is Nobuo’s best and the story is a genuine mystery to unravel each time you play. I’m looking forward to my next play through.
I don't normally comment on videos, but I had to drop a comment and a subscribe on a year old video after the SeeD name reasoning! FF8 was my first FF and therefore my favorite - thanks for the in depth share of your experience, homie!
I always read it as she was a descendant of squall/rinoa. like if you take the past stuff with laguna into account, it'd be about these peoples family through 3 generations. the thing that kinda sold it for me personally is the ring thing, because we don't really know how GFs get made, are they people? idk. but I kinda figured that if ultimecia is part of their family, griever would be either him sacrificing himself to protect his family. or the legend of the knight symbolized by the creature on his ring, greiver, turns into a GF, it'd make sense the inheritor of that ring would have the GF. I guess that works for rinoa as well. but since she's from "generations into the future" idk why it'd be rinoa.
The only hole in the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory that I can't really explain. Ultimecia was described as being a sorceress far into the future, far beyond the lifetime of our heros of the game. So how does Rinoa live that long? I don't think being a sorceress gives you immortality.
It doesn't. In the ultimania, it said that sorceress have the same life span as a regular human. For as "they can't die until they pass on their powers," well, we see ultimecia in a zombie-like state when she was trying to pass on her powers upon her death at the end of the game.
FF8 is my favorite 3D FF game. On the other hand, I have developed a crippling addiction to 14... Side note, the Raid Series in Shadowbringers is a fantastic FF8 reference.
About Ultimecia being Rinoa, there's also a strong possibility that nobody ever seems to consider: the sorceress from the future could easily be Squall and Rinoa's daughter/direct descendant. That would make the whole story of the game the most cursed and tragic love story of all time. 😅 I mean... Laguna falls in love with a girl called Julia but he's injured during a mission and ends up living in a small mountain town, never seeing that girl ever again. Then, he meets there another woman called Raine which already have a daughter named Ellone who's a potential witch that gets taken away by Sorceress Adel's minions at some point. Laguna leaves to bring the kid back while Raine is pregnant with there child, Squall (all that part of the story is not exactly theory since it's heavily implied in the game). Roughly seventeen to eighteen years later, Squall and Julia's daughter meet and they end up falling in love after being through a lot together, thus fulfilling the love story described in the "Eyes on me" song (a song about Laguna that was written by Julia... which is kinda creepy since it's about stalking people lol). Everything's fine and love triumphs. Except it clearly doesn't. You have two intertwined timelines for most of the game: the past and the present. But then a third one (the future) appears out of nowhere and seems disconnected from the two previous generations of characters, so what I'm saying is just that having three generations of the same bloodline fighting in a loophole because of a failed romance could also be a quite logical scenario.🤔
So I have a problem with the " (a song about Laguna that was written by Julia... which is kinda creepy since it's about stalking people lol)" More specifically: it's about stalking people You've clearly never had a healthy relationship, or you grew up in this new generation that thinks holding the door open for someone is 'misogyny/patriarchy.' There isn't a single thing in the entire song that is about stalking. Laguna, despite being a pretty handsome man (and I say that as a guy who's straight) is awkward and shy around women, especially if he likes them. And Julia was also semi-famous, and popular atleast within her sphere. She was, in his eyes, the popular girl at school, and he had low self confidence, so instead of approaching her he patronized her business frequently, and enjoyed her music, since in his mind, it was all he could do, since he didn't think she'd ever give him the time of day (again, due to low self esteem) However, he didn't realize that she'd noticed him, and over time she too became attracted to him (likely because he was handsome, as well as maybe other factors) that's literally the entire theme of 'Eyes on me.' The song isn't "**My last night here for you, you followed me, all the way hooooome. My last night here for youuuuuu~ i saw you staring, from the pole!" [Verse 1] I never sang my songs On the stage, on my own Whenever said my words Wishing they would be heard I saw you smiling at me Was it real, or just my fantasy? You'd always be there in the corner Of this tiny little bar (She wanted to sing her own song, but lacked the inspiration, she had things she wanted to say but no one to listen to them, and lacked the inspiration. She saw him in the corner whenever he would come in to enjoy her performance with a smile on his face) [Verse 2] My last night here for you Same old songs, just once more My last night here with you? Maybe yes, maybe no I kind of liked it your way How you shyly placed your eyes on me Did you ever know That I had mine on you? [Chorus] Darling, so there you are With that look on your face As if you're never hurt As if you're never down Shall I be the one for you Who pinches you softly but sure? If frown is shown then I will know that you are no dreamer (The last night her performances would be melody-only, because after thier talk, he inspired her to write these lyrics. She's unsure if after inviting him there if she'll ever see him again. She **liked** his cute shyness, and she was watching him as well, but also lacked the courage to approach him until this night. She wants to know more about him, and wants to be the person he falls for, to hold, and to be there for him. The last part simply referring to the fact he's always smiling) [Verse 3] So let me come to you Close as I wanna be Close enough for me To feel your heart beating fast And stay there as I whisper How I loved your peaceful eyes on me Did you ever know That I had mine on you? (She wants to be with him, to put her head on his chest, and tell him how she felt about him, that she was joyous of the fact he always came to watch her, and that she noticed.) [Chorus] Darling, so share with me Your love if you have enough Your tears if you're holding back Or pain if that's what it is How can I let you know I'm more than the dress and the voice? Just reach me out, then You will know that you are not dreaming You might also like (She wants him to love her, share his pain and sadness, she wants him to know that she wants to be MORE than 'just' Julia, the songstress to him. And she wants him to reach for her, to pursue her.) [Chorus] Darling, so there you are With that look on your face As if you're never hurt As if you're never down Shall I be the one for you Who pinches you softly but sure? If frown is shown then I will know that you are no dreamer (repeat) So tell me where exactly in this song is it about a stalker, or stalking?
@@raielle by the way, I'm born on March 1984. I'm 38. But thanks for assuming a lot about be from a single joke and for posting a long ass message to make me rethink my whole love life with your patronizing tone, dude... everybody loves it when random people do that. Yeah, sure. 😒
@@raielle Ok, whatever bro... that little "lol" after my original comment about that song should have been a good indication of the intended tone of said comment but yeah, you're right, I'm clearly the one guetting mad over futilities here.🙃
In my head-canon, Ultimecia is Rinoa in an alternate timeline where Squall did not go after Rinoa after he saved her in space, resulting her becoming a full sorceress after being sealed off. She tries to come back to the time when Squall was alive to change her fate, and finally able to break the time loop and fate of becoming a sorceress. Thus, the title of Final Fantasy 8, refers to her dying wish. Squall was her final wish, her final fantasy.
Also a low hanging fruit crack theory I have in addition is that the Number 8 in English actually also looks like the symbol for infinity, which fits well with a game that has time compression, timeline bounces and sorceresses that live for long periods of time
Agreed. Where she picked up that German accent, or whatever that is at the end with all the k's, is anyone's guess. But if this theory isn't true, how can Ultimecia have Squall's Griever as her GF?
@@runeramdas Squall gave it to her in space as a promise that he will always come to save her. In that alternate timeline, he didn't. Instead Riona spent the rest of her life being quarantined with Dr. Odine, where she picked up his German accent. Until she was deemed to dangerous being left conscious, and being sealed off without seeing Squall ever again. While Squall married Ellone, lived and died a peaceful life in Winhill, never again seeing his first love. Just like his father Laguna before him. 😢
@@KyranSpardathere’s a moment in the end FMV where we see Rinoa’s mask burst, which can only be interpreted as an experience of a separate timeline. Maybe that’s the previous timeline where Squall fails?
It’s the soundtrack that really ties it all together for me. Also breaking the junction system within the first 2 hours always makes it a fun playthrough
This is my favorite Final Fantasy game even to this day. It meant so much to me when it first came out & I just replayed through it with my wife. Seeing all the things that impacted me as well as the connections I have with Squall's arc helped us understand each other more. I love this game so much & I really enjoyed your analysis. Thank you.
Thank you for this video. I saw the length and almost wrote it off instantly, but you kept me in the whole way through cause I realized your takes on FF VIII were many I shared as well. It was also my first Final Fantasy and I replay it every couple years.
I love love FF8 too and all the mysteries in it, and the Rinoa theory is very compelling. The story is just so complex and convoluted that it's hard to absorb in one play of the game, which could easily be construed as a negative - and maybe it is - but at the same time, you can discover new things and nuances years later that can totally reshape the story as a whole. Few games do something like this.
I love your intro! 😂 Honestly, the true biggest singular flaw of FF8 was unavoidable no matter what they would have done. Anything being tasked with following FF7 was destined to be handed a hate grenade. That being true aside; FF8 was a really great game in its own right in all aspects.
55:32 yeah this is so Kunihiko Ikuhara, you should check out his animes you’ll find them satisfactory in that way, he does embrace that letting go if his creations interpretations once they’re out there
This video has just blown me away. There are a lot of videos dissecting this game on UA-cam, but yours is perhaps the most convincing. You've done an outstanding job balancing your nostalgia with valid critiques. Final Fantasy VIII isn't my favourite "game" per se, but it is the most fascinating that I've ever played. There is so much to like, and every shortcoming is just a step away from brilliance. Thank you for putting all of this into words. In particular, your Rinoa=Ultimecia explanation made me shiver. I've always been compelled by this theory, and your explanation has become a head canon that I find deeply satisfying. I'll be taking that thank you. Sidenote: the first time you said "goblins" I thought you'd just misspoken "gauntlets", but the second time you said it I was convinced you really said goblins. Which was it? 😆
I also believe that Rinoa is Ultimecia, no matter how much it’s debunked, because it adds such a dark, tragic, almost horrifying unspoken angle to this tale and the love story at the centre of it. What really sealed the deal for me was when I played the Dissidia games. Ultimecia is no longer just left to the sidelines as an almost unknown force, she’s front and centre, talking and interacting with people, including Squall…and holy shit, for a character with so little presence in the original game, she knows how to fuck with Squall. Like she’s pulling the same levels of mind-fuckery and emotional damage on him that Sephiroth is pulling on Cloud. All of a sudden, it really clicked in my brain that she KNOWS him, and knows him well. Also, Squall never came off to me as a sulky emo. If anything, the dude’s a savage, he just keeps it all in his head and that’s very valid of him. And yes, Laguna is the best character in the entire game.
+1 to Squall is a savage. It's why people are always trying to defuse the tension around him with humor. Fear. He's pretty sure he's the fucking hell bringer, and so is everyone else - we get to watch him learn how. If it weren't for Squall, Seifer would be a king - but that's a huge shadow to live in. No wonder he's got mommy issues. Edit: Holyshit this is really deserving of more than getting lost in youtube comments. The savage thing fits further with all he Lion references, and Rinoa being the only one who could "tame the lion". Jesus, mind blown.
I like the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory. I imagine that in the future Rinoa has become Ultimecia and Squall her knight but the SeeDs of that timeline kill him as he's defending her and she wants to do time compression to wipe out all SeeDs as revenge. But it's definitely not the case. At 46:25 in the video, the text on screen shows Edea telling your party that Ultimecia is from a future "many generations ahead" of their time. Rinoa just wouldn't be alive at the time that Ultimecia is a sorceress.
May I ask if this whole Rinoa-is-Artemisia-theory is just an attempt to bring the epicness of how Sephiroth fucks with Cloud to a game that simply just lacks the deepness of the story of FFVII? You are projecting and supporting something that is just not there to find reasons to make a good game better. You want it to be up there where VII realms just because you think it must be that good, yet it simply isn't. Don't get me wrong, I hold VIII in high regards, but not that high that I'm going to force myself into delusional theories.
@@homerp.hendelbergenheinzel6649there is actual evidence to support the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory. Rinoa asks Squall what his necklace is, to which he exclaims it’s called Griever. Ultimecia summons a Lion like beast named Griever. Rinoa’s arms in the FF8 logo looked like like raven claws. Ultimecia’s arm are very raven like. Some of Ultimecia’s moveset in the Dissidia games are copied from Rinoa’s in FF8. Not only that, but Rinoa does transform into Ultimecia in FF8’s ending cutscene, and she does look like Rinoa in the FMV.
@@kasam0308 first of all, one of the developers said in an interview in 2016 ( I think it was, don't nail me on that year) that the theory is not true, i.e. Rinoa is not Artemisia. Secondly, it is safe to assume that Artemisias power goes so far ( she can go back in time), that it would be easy for her to find out about the rings name with ease ( she is a sorceress, after all and a very powerful at that). The best way to think of it is, that she found out while Squall and the group fight her in the endboss-battle. She casts Griever to confront Squall with his "inner demon" ( english is not my mother tongue, I lack a better word in English for what I mean). FFVII also had one such theory, Cloud died after the fall when they fought in reactor No. 5 in Midgar. It was assumed that no one could survive the fall from "the rotten pizza" down to the slums. It was also debunked by a developer and we should go with what they say and not what we think - at least if they ( the developers) come out and give a statement on a subject ( especially when they say a theory is true or not). They are an instance we can not negotiate with, because they now best and not we fans.
What frustrates me with the "rinoa = ultimecia" theory is that I don't understand japanese and I feel the story is complex enough that a lot of the nuances are most likely lost in translation and I wish I could experience it in japanese for that reason, to figure out if those important details are the same. With what I know of the story it's a compelling theory but the alternative also kinda works, the idea that ultimecia is just the last sorceress of the future trying to escape fate when the world has gone to shit and everyone wants her dead preemptively because of what she did in the future to avoid this very same thing, and in doing so she kickstart the series of event that leads to her tragic future. The thing is that the rinoa theory works excelently thematically so it makes it more appealing while the other would imply the writers kinda fucked up somewhere and didn't explain some key points properly or gave enough context for the vilain to be fully fleshed out. Still I actually really like the idea that ultimecia has nothing to do with the party and is just trying to escape her fate because while it doesn't thematically work with the love angle it mirrors squall quite well, in the sense that squall is also thrust in position he wants nothing to do with against his will, but while squall does end up doing his best to make the most of it ultimecia is trying her best to avoid her fate. It's not as sexy but it works. And I would be really curious to know what the original intent was. (one thing I would really like to know is the original name for griever, because I feel like that name is significant and the idea that griever is a memento of a lost lover that is being grieved makes a lot of sense for rinoa = ultimecia theory)
i believe FF9 has a similar issue regarding Necron, if i recall (and its been YEARS since i read this so my brain isn't going to be too reliable) the IDEA of Death/Necron is told throughout the entire game but due to translation issues, it doesn't come across nearly as strong and that's why people where shocked by a surprise real final boss. again, i can not be sure if this is the case or not, it was nearly 10 years ago on a now ancient Gamefaqs thread, but i wouldn't be that shocked if it happened.
@@TheAuron32 Necron is more a symbolic enemy and antithesis of the theme of life in Final Fantasy IX. Additionally, Final Fantasy IX also the theme of Reflection on the past tiles in the series. Kuja as a villian is supposed to reflect all of the Villains of the previous Final Fantasy tiltes but near the end the one he is most similar to is Xande from Final Fantasy 3 who planed to flood the world with Darkness to preserve his own now mortal life. His schemes accidentally create the Cloud of Darkness akin to Kuja's despair creating Necron. For these reasons its why Hades was likely scrapped late in development as the final boss.
Amazing review. I have replayed FF VIII countless times as a child and teenager and i was obsessed to uncover every unseen corner. It was obvious to me then that the story implied that Ultimecia somehow was connected to Squall and my impression (before internet theories) was that she was Rinoa far into a future that she forgot the specifics but clinged on to feelings. The GF losing memories subplot makes no sense otherwise.
I always wonder if it was intentional that Cid looks like Robin Williams.
Haha i had that impression as well
Bruh even back in 97 I was screaming about this 100% Robin williams
I think he does for sure. RIP still miss him.
😂😂😂
I was wondering why he was my favorite Cid of the series lol
People judging Squall harshly forget that he is a literal war orphan, who lost all his friends as they got adopted, lost his sister as she got taken away and closed himself off to protect himself at a very early age. He went from an orphanage to a military school and that's it.
Everyone Squall loved left him, so he didn't want any more friends and it took him a lot of time to get out of that mindset. (probably a big part was when he thought seifer was dead and thus saw his own future in that)
Yeah, I saw a lot of myself in Squall as a teen when I played this game and a big part of that was his abandonment issues. I've matured more as an adult and on replays I think he's unnecessarily harsh to Quistis and Zell but Squall isn't that mature yet, he has angst like most teens and doesn't always say what he should at times, which is pretty human.
@@owaffs I agree. Sure, Squall may not be as angst as Cloud, but he's pretty much up there.
Squall suffers from what I like to call "Holden Caulfield" syndrome. He's well written, but people are put off by elements of his character. I think the complaints of him being emo and whiny are pretty superficial personally but that might just be me.
People also bash Vaan from FF12, even though he’s also an impoverished war orphan grieving his brother’s loss.
And a child soldier at that. When he graduated balamb garden he was just 17, meaning he started combat training earlier than that. People can call emo are usually double standard Cloud fanboys who wouldn't even take into the account that Cloud is a grown-ass man and Squall is still a teenager. Boo hoo Cloud got exPeriMenTeD by Hojo blah blah blah.. He still bitched-out for 2 years in Advent Children and never got over it. Squall basically carried the responsibility of the entire Balamb Garden (The entire military school base of operation) on his shoulders while he's still learning to deal with his problems, all because of the headmaster dropped it on him on a wimp.
While Cloud's got his panties up in a bunch with his white haired crush. Squall got ice-picked, literally, thrown into the river by the woman who raised him, wake up, jailed, and tortured. Yet still find the strength to come back and save everyone instead of bitch and whining like a vegetable on a wheelchair. You tell me Squall is emo? Then Cloud must be a bitch. And beside, all those dialogues were his inner thoughts, he didn't say it out loud. If they didn't like reading it they shouldn't have probably played FF8. All kinds of bias bullshit being thrown to FF8 by salty FF7 fanboys. All because of Lionheart is the better version of Omnislash.
Seifer looking up to squalls dad as his hero is just the best.
This was my first ff game. Changed my life. Made me a lifelong fan of the series. It has issues but I am willing to overlook them for all the stuff I love about it.
100% the same reason for me, I even bounced off of FF7 and the only reason I ever went back and really enjoy the game now was because of FF8.
Agree
Mine too.
me too, first ff game, first ps1 game, and i knew this from a magazine, before i bought the ps1! i dreamt to play this game and after bought the ps1, i played this and got amazed with the FMV
Same here, my first play through game.
Something I always found interesting is Squall and Irvine are the youngest party members, but both of their character arcs are them playing at being grown men with these rough exteriors because that's what's expected (They're both the best at their respective skills and are somewhat revered by their headmasters for this skill), but when you peel that away, they're really just scared and insecure teenagers who don't know how to genuinely open up to people. And for me that makes the assassination mission so interesting in terms of their character arcs since they have this moment together where they're forced to confront this about themselves by recognizing it in one another.
When Irvine was choking in that moment and couldn't find the confidence to do it.. I cried.. I felt that so much.. And then he tried... and failed (by no fault of his own) and I'm just so happy that Squall had told him that even if he failed, not to worry. He'd take care of the rest. AHHHHHH
it all adds up to the fact he was basically set up to assassinate his own foster mother, that's the essence of a kid forced to grow up. Incredible storytelling
@@Diuler Irvine was the only one to realize it was his foster mother too, the others had forgotten because of the use of GF's.
Well said
thats what happens when you pretend to do a role. Like Seifer, everyone thought HE was the best until he went insane pretending to be a knight. Anything that threatens that secure role makes them realize the truth and that they are just children and just trying to live up to the roles other people have given them.
Love FF8, it was my first Final Fantasy.
I am 54 now and still play it regularly.
Hell yeah! Gamer forever.
42 year old dad here, I play this game along with 7 every 2 or 3 years.
Gamers will the best retired ppl ever
I haven't played the game for 24 years, but I kept the discs. I just started with a 2nd play-through on a PS2 this time.😉
... Me too! I am still looking for my Rinoa. I may have found her... I wonder if Brett Cooper has a dog 🐕 🤔
What I really love about it, is its art style. FF7 is very real world related. FF9 is classic medieval steampunk. But FF8 isn't really classic sci-fi or something. It has elements from all three styles. It feels like a post apocalyptic world that is frozen somwhere between the ages. Which kinda fits the whole time compression narrative. Besides that the game has a lot of elements that are connected together but actually didn't make that much sense in particular. And that created a feeling that the game actually had much story to hide that actually wasn't told. For some it appeared like just bad made. For me it created a athmosphere of mysteries through the whole game, which was fed by locations like the centra ruins, shumi village, the Ragnarok and the aliens, Lunatic Pandora or the Deep Sea Research Center. Everything just felt so thrown in like whatever, which always made me thinking about who build that and what actually happened to it.
Oh yeah, FF8 is gushing with inspired world building. Man, I wish they did more with the Lunar Cry in particular. When I see the moon transform into a giant eyeball that zaps monsters onto the planet and also wipes out civilizations, my brain REALLY wants to know what's up with that? The cynical part of me says "It's just a cool visual, quit asking questions", but the conspiracy part of me can't stop thinking about all the implications there. Are all the monsters in that world space invaders from the moon, like are they born there or what? I'm also kind of curious why Hyne himself came from, but then again, most real world mythologies don't give concrete answers to stuff like that.
@@SwanCC As I know Square Enix, they don't throw in things just because it's cool. If you read the ultimanias and the FF Wikia, you can see a massive difference between the concepts and the final product. They had to cut out so much on every final fantasy game because of time, money and technical limitations. Their reputation for being overly ambitious is no coincidence. But it turns out to be a good thing because now they have massive material they can work with in the remakes. And since the they chose the multiple part concept, they actually aren't any limits like that anymore. So I'm sure there will be an FF8 remake. As well as FF6 and 5. Maybe from a different team but I would be actually fine with that. Better than nothing.
@@Evidancer Sadly ff8 can't be remade. Because the singer of "Eyes on Me" had some BS in the contract that makes it very difficult for SE to do it. I can't remember all the details but Square basically said 'we're never making a contract like that again' and its part of why we havent gotten a remake. Due to some contractual BS.
In other news, I'm not sure I'd want them to remake it. As much as I loved FF7:R... they flipped me off. I preordered it at the $100 level for my ps4. Then they went "LOL now you gotta buy a ps5 to continue."
Which means for me, continuing ff7:r will cost $560-$2000 for anything past part 1.
Then, to add some clarificiation ff8, and Chrono cross are the ONLY non MMO's i played for TEN FUCKING YEARS. because I loved both games so much.
(semi) Recently, SE 'remastered' Chrono cross' just after their crossover event, and in the crossover event trailer, the animations were beautiful, the character models as well.
then they released the remaster.
it was worse than fan ports to emulators. The graphics were worse than the original. The game had bugs that were never in the original. Basically, the TLDR is they made an AI upscale everything, gave it a coat of cheap paint, and then slapped the Radical Dreamers game with it.
It was Nostalgia-bait-cashgrabbing.
As much as I want remakes and remasters, I no longer trust SE to do it, without corperate greed getting in the way.
@@raielle this sadly, and lets not forget zensorship, rinoas and tifas titts got gone.
@@aka-47k yep. And blood. Sadly people in circles like mine kept telling people don't let the. Censorship anything.
"OH come on its only X, chill bro"
And now games are censored in so many ways as to barely be recognizable in so.e cases.
Boiled frogs.
Final Fantasy always feel exciting to me to replay again. Something about the set up, the school, the dorm life, the iconic music, the you're an elite force, the graphic. Idk, it has timeless appeal to it.
Another aspect that's nice is how everyone is a crew. There aren't randos who join your party because their goal happens to be in the direction you are heading, so everyones got a similar stake in the story.
These days, people only care about graphics, but I like how some of these older games look.
I'd rather play something from the 90's than one of the pieces of crap they put out now.
Most people don't understand because...ooh, that water looks amazing!
@Diablo_Himself agreed, I'd love for just once, they could update the graphics while leaving the story alone.
I started with 7 and always said it was the best. but after replaying all of them as an adult, 8 hit me the hardest and is my favorite now.
Same
Same
Same
I suspect a lot of the hate is due to people playing it before they were old enough to appreciate its complexity. It was my first, but I played it when I was maybe 19, a bit older than the characters, and going through a similar development - if I'd been 12, I don't think I would have got that. I love 7 too, and like 9 & 10, but they've always seemed a bit simplistic by comparison.
@@stegsjenga5088nah I played ff8 when I was like 10 years old and it’s my all time favorite. I played ff7 after and I remembered it wasn’t as entertaining and good so I never finished it 😅. Maybe my 10 year old self mentality was different but even as an adult, I’m not really into ff7 but I love ff8 and ff9, followed by ff6. FFX was kinda corny and mediocre to me as well. I never got passed ffX so idk about others but I don’t like that first person POV games
This game does something very unique when it comes to narrative in the form that it often shows to the player what squall's thoughts are, whilst never letting those complicated inner monologues out for the othyer characters to comment upon. You get such a fantastic painting of squall's - and only his - characterization through these frequent thought bubbles, it made him one of the most relatable ff protagonists to me. At the same time this is both 100% the way to go and something no other entry should consider, since it makes this game's special parallel narratives so unique and interesting
The Balam Garden song gets me every time. Instant soothing nostalgia waves.
I have a habit when I'm returning home from a trip to listen to the Balamb Garden theme when I'm effectively driving down my home street. Always just gives me instant, soothing "home at last" vibes.
If i remember correctly, Basch was supposed to be the main character of 12, but then they changed it late in development to penelo and vaan to make it appeal more to a teen audience
Penelo isn't a main character though, she's a secondary like the others.
Oh my God thank youuuu!!!!
That moment where Quistis pushes Squall to save Rinoa is such an underrated moment.
If you think about it, Quistis has no reason to save Rinoa. She has her mission, Adel is on earth and it's her duty to stop it. Not only that, freeing Rinoa might endanger the entire world because she be possessed.
Rationally, through the eyes of a SeeD or Instructor, the best move is to let her go. Rinoa's gone, and it gives Quistis the opportunity to make her romance with Squall work in the same vein as say how Laguna moved on from Julia to Raine. Right before this scene, she was jealous of Rinoa, implying she wanted to have Squall save her instead.
But she still saves Rinoa. She pushes Squall to save her. Throughout the game, Quistis struggles to define herself. Is she the responsible instructor, is she the one for Squall, etc.
But what Quistis wants, is the best for her friends no matter what. You see her abandon her post in the assassination mission because she felt bad for Rinoa, even after being trapped inside the house, Quistis still worries about her.
When Quistis sees Squall all broken after being left by Rinoa, she's essentially reliving the moment where she decided she wants to be like a sister for Squall, wherein Squall states that he fights so that Ellone can come back. She wants to guide this kid who's lost in his life.
Quistis felt family in him. She ran away from her parents because they didn't fit together. But with Squall, Edea and the others, she had a family. It's all she ever wanted.
So at this moment, she finally finds herself. She isn't an instructor, she isn't Squall's lover, She's his family. She realizes who she is. She redeems herself by successfully saving Rinoa unlike the assassination mission, but also by pushing Squall to risk it all save Rinoa, just as how Ellone did much the same, encouraging Squall to risk his life to save Rinoa, showing us that Quistis really become his sis.
Thank you for this! I love VIII too. This game is special to me, and I love writing about it. Here's a subscriber! You earned it!
Quistis is a greatly underappreciated character. Making this video helped me to remember why I liked her so much in my earlier playthroughs. I wish I could have spent more time elaborating on the orphanage flash back stuff, because there are a few great "easy-to-miss" lines in there that help to recontextualize everyone's character. She has a line similar to "I thought it was love, but in the end I was just trying to replace big sis", which I think adds weight to the early interactions between her, Squall and Seifer.
@@SwanCC Yeah! Quistis might be my favorite character in Final Fantasy. Despite what little we got, she's a well developed character and someone I connect to a lot. I could talk about her more than some Protagonists in Final Fantasy.
Even if she wants to be with Squall, Quistis is still supportive of Rinoa. She's everything she isn't and she learns from her, despite once being the instructor.
When Rinoa falls into a coma in Disc 2, she's the first one to immediately rush to her aid, and even brings Squall's attention to her.
By the end, if you bring her to the flower field with Rinoa in Disc 3, she's moved on, and she guides Squall.
Her advice to picture a brighter future in Ragnarok is essentially what Squall ends up telling Rinoa, allowing him to comfort her and give her hope.
It's also worth noting how Quistis started off being confused about her feelings for Squall, and ended up figuring out, while Rinoa figured out her feelings for Squall early on, but upon understanding the whole Sorceress vs SeeD dynamic, she ends up being confused until she lets go of her fears.
She's most definitely underappreciated!
@@lionsheart6138 I completely agree that Quistis has a character development arc toward becoming a "big sister." Interest reinvigorated by Seán's video, I was thinking of posting here about it myself--and here I find someone else making the point! Well said. On another site I argued you can track this arc in small steps throughout the game; can find if anyone's still interested to discuss or go further into the topic. AlleywayJack does a good video, too, though I'd say there remains room for discussion.
@@831ACH Yeah. I think her arc is very underappreciated, and I think its bery nice in a game with many romantic relationships, with some playing big roles in the plot (Cid-Edea, Laguna-Julia/Raine, Squall-Rinoa,) Quistis's arc shows us that's it's not the most necessary relationship. Among the main party, she's the only one without a romantic relationship, not even an implied relationship, yet she's still happy because she still has familial love.
That whole situation during the assassination mission was a mess lol! They prioritized personal things above their mission more than once, which shows why Quistis was demoted. Rinoa was never a bright one. The worst part was when everyone was pushing Squall to save Rinoa when Balamb was being attacked....while students were dying around them. Yes, worried about who hooks up over your fellow peers losing their lives during an invasion.
The Princess Edea assassination mission, was and still is, one of the most epic experiences I ever had in gaming.
My 10 year old self was absolutely blown away back when the game launched.
Also, I remember the disc change happened right before or after.. so I thought the game crashed and I went through a existential crisis 😂
EDIT- EASILY the goat soundtrack of the series.
The disk changed immediately after Squall took an ice spike thriugh the chest lol
Princess?? 😂
@@wearedoomed9374
Not only that, the next disc also started with a somewhat long Laguna bit before we had learned that those were glimpses into the past. First time I played that bit, I legit thought Squall was dead. 😅
Bro, this. I was 25 and I still remember it like wtf, Im doing this in a jrpg!?
Yes! Yes, I completely agree with you 100%
I think, I really liked Squall as I had cancer at a really young age and watched a lot of my friends die who also had cancer at the time. Then around 8 years old my biological mother was cut out of my life (she was physically abusive to my sister and I). In my younger teenage years my father became alcoholic and was verbally abusive and on occasions physically abusive.
I really withdrew from the social part of life. I did not want to be at home and was hesitant at making new friends.
I was cold and short with responses to others. All to protect myself from future pain.
As for romantic relationships I have always been with women that have "forced" their way into my life due to my shell of self protection.
The song "Force Your Way" has a new meaning as it did for Rinoa forcing her way into Squall's life
FF8 was my first in the franchise and I love it. FF8 has a huge soft spot in my heart forever. I bought so many copies of this game as a kid cause I wore out the disks (or it just stopped working). I wish a real remake would happen for FF8.
It's totally possible, but it's gonna take some time for sure. With FF7 and 9 remakes on the rails, I can only see a FF8 remake coming out by the end of the decade. It's my favorite FF and it has a ton of potentional.
FF8 was my first FF game as well. Before I even played it, a friend in my neighborhood had the strategy guide. We would play in his backyard with the book being our guide. Using sticks to fight trees and level up characters from the book... collecting broken safety glass and putting it in pouches for "gil" to purchase items. Pretty nerdy and weird looking back but it was honestly so fun. I was already hooked on the game before I even owned the discs lol. It holds a special place in my heart for sure.
Weird and nerdy is the best kinda fun.
wtf, that is not nerdy, that is normal kids playing dude :D
@@Mithoskrasnej it’s pretty nerdy too
This was my first FF. I must have asked for 7 and by the time Xmas came around 8 was out. I loved it, I always remember that it's my favourite. Any time a vid or article crosses my path I'll devour it and swear that I'm going to actually get round to starting my second playthrough.
But the thing is, I barely remember any of the actual plot or systems, all I've got is vibes. And the memory of a scratch on disc 4 crashing the game during the final cutscene.
It's like a wild dream that I woke up from just a moment too soon.
You hit the nail on the head with Squall. This is still my favorite RPG of all time, and I loved it as a kid (5th grade first playthrough) more than 7 (7th grade first playthrough), and as I've gotten older it's only deepened. The game had such a deep pool of adult life you don't realize it as a kid. It's amazing.
One of the best. 7-8 and 9 were incredible. Even ff10 was awesome, so many amazing memories, back to back amazing titles.
What a golden era for gamers
Most popular in NA is 7. Most popular in Japan was 10. I wonder why that is....
uhh, 8 was so bad i completely ignored 9
uh... 10 made me walk away from FF.. "they are never going to fix this"
then i saw what they were doing with 10-2... wow.. so sad
came back later in '06 to try FF12 and WOW...
12 is the only one i came back years and years later to emulate and enjoy again.. i tried 7 for a hot minute but, got to junon, and was bored and quit...
made my peace with 7, maybe in 10 years i'll try again..
12 on the other hand... so dam good
@@kwazhims3lf uhh maybe you just have a thing for pre-pubescent teens in skimpy clothing? Anywy, cool story.
@@snactimusmaximus *_brainlet forgot about fran_*
cool story booiiIIIIIIII
@@kwazhims3lf a furry too? Don't @ me any more, degen.
"why would an Sorceress need Guardian Forces?" Ultimecia actually uses multiple Guardian Forces during the story, on Disk 1, she uses Carbuncle to Animate and give Auto-Reflect to the Iguions that attack Rinoa, and on Edea's final Fight, she is junctioned with Alexander, and in Tiamat's description, its stated that Tiamat is a Guardian Force as well. i like to assume all bosses on Ultimecia castle are actually her Guardian Forces that she uses to seal YOUR guardian forces powers.
i also like to think that Griever was actually created during the final fight, by Ultimecia using a old trick your party has been using the entire game: Drawing GFs from your enemies, but that is a stretch.
Tiamat I think is described as a corrupted Guardian Force. One who looks an awful lot like Bahamut.
I do think that Geiver is intended as Ultimicia drawing a GF from her enemy
It's not a stretch at all. If you scan Griever, it literally says "In Squall's mind, the strongest GF." That's the hint. Griever was drawn by Ultimecia from Squall's mind during the fight.
Laguna has, and always will be my fav character in this installment, and his battle music was solid too!
Solid? Its freakin' incredible!
I agree, "The Man With The MachineGun" was my ringtone for many years.
Now it's my alarm so I wake up to it!
I’m still one of the original FF8 fans, never hated in it. It’s hilarious to me whenever I see videos like this because the context of it coming out (early internet) meant that most of us were over-leveled, over-using junctioned magic, over-abusing GF summons. It was still earth shattering when it came out, I had friends come over and we’d do nothing but play Triple Triad for hours.
Final Fantasy 8 is literal a Multigenerational Love story involving the parents of the protagonists, Great video my friend I loved every moment of it. I would love to see it get the Remake treatment the way 7 is....oh well what can ya do.
Hell no.
You don't remake a classic!
Maybe just make a version (the same) that will run on newer consoles/PC's.
Im playing through 8 for the first time rn!!! Its fucking amazing dude the vibe it gives is unlike any other ff ive ever played pretty amazing so far
Hell yeah brother, hopefully I didn't spoil too much for you.
My biggest problem with the Junction system was the limitation of 9 spells per draw, making it take way too long to steal 100 of a spell from an enemy.
If they remake the game I hope they don't have the player draw but every action would have a mug magic type deal where depending on the GFs equipped the action would draw none, small, normal, or many magics. Seems like a pain for the developers though because they would have to have a long table for each GF set with their preferable actions. And then they could make it even more complex based on monster type, or monster strengths & weaknesses.
If they do remake the game, I wish they would get rid of leveling and have you junction a main magic instead of leveling. Then the game would reward you for finding stronger magics and players wouldn't mindlessly grind for exp, and they would have to be smart about finding better magic from interesting draw points, items, or monsters.
Any remake would go the action rpg route, I don't even see how drawing would work with that combat system
And THAT's... the foundation of the magic system 🤮🤮🤮
The way I always justify it is (A) since the most optimal way to play this game is getting powerful without killing monsters and leveling up, and you do this through junction, think of drawing as your grind. You can break the game if you want to, and just getting more than 9 per draw would make it even easier to do, and (B) you don't even really have to draw 99 of each spell. Turning monsters into cards, or just playing the card game like a maniac, and then turning cards into spells/items is the real key to success.
Obviously, this is my favorite FF game. I like how it's not the usual fighting monsters to grind thing, and also the difficulty is very flexible in that by choosing whether you kill monsters or turn them into cards you can make the game as hard or as easy as you want to. You can very easily break the game, too, but that's also optional.
1:35 I’m old now, but first played VIII as it released as a teenager. This trailer, along with the intro CG was mindbreaking (I remember pre-YT, people even ripped and shared the cutscenes on Limewire).
I don’t think I was more blown away by a Final Fantasy trailer until the first “Versus XIII” trailer, when that game was supposed to release on PS3.
I also though Rinoa was Ultimicia, there was just too many similarities. Ultimicia is the opposite reflection of Rinoa,Ultimecia is wearing red dress, Rinoa is in blue, Ultimecia has white hair, Rinoa has black, devil wings vs angel wings .....Griever was the ultimate hint because after Rinoa lost her self, this was the only painful memory of her past and of her lost love. I believe that Angelo was actually her GF and after all the time and grief she experienced, she transformed into Ultimecia and Angelo became Griever (Cat looking GF). Ultimecia was in a trap, she wanted time compression to escape from it. After we killed Ultimecia, Rinoa was lost in the time space, but this time she knew what promise they have made with Squal and both of them met. Ironically this was Ultimecia wish as well. If Rinoa finds Squal and he is alive Ultimecia (Rinoa from the future) does not exist.
@@mockingjay4776 If developers debunked this theory why they have given Ultimecia Rinoa's weapons in Dissidia? Each one of us has different perception when playing the game and if you can't see all the clues it means that you are dumb. They never said it directly that Squall is Laguna son as well, so if you don't pay attention while playing you might not even see that Squall-Rinoa love is reincarnation of Laguna (Squal's father) and Julia (Rinoa's mother) love which was not mean to be. FF8 left so many plots open for interpretation, which makes a story good. The story writers of FF8 never gave clear statement, whatever was changed during game development phase remained unanswered.
@@dododimitrov9657 They don't even speak the same, remember at the end battle she speaks like a russian all the c's are replaced with k's.
@@BillyBowlster yep, also I watched now the ending and I saw Ultimecia face flashing on Rinoa during the time compression phase 10:40 ua-cam.com/video/HA2Fh-UHqwc/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Jon2ne1Gaming
@@mockingjay4776 This theory debunked how? By them just saying no? No sarcasm here a real question. Could it be possible they said no to keep some of the mystery of the story up to individual interpretation like it was intended? Just something to think about.
Idk if its the dumbest theory Rinoa as Ultimecia could be a simple she forgets who she was but drawn to that time to become one with her younger self. Perhaps in Ultimecias timeline Squall died which drove her insane and wanting to return to the past. No one went into details how her timeline was destroyed. Perhaps Squall dying made her snap and destroy her world. Without her memory she tries to kill him again as for not speaking the same in some cases of amnesia a new personality can take over completely.
For example when i was a kid my biological parents tried to kill me. My adoptive parents knew my biological ones according to them starting out i had a completely different personality but after the incident i changed completely and i had no memory who i was. In the end all we are as people is memory losing that can lead to another personality completely.
Definitely hit on the issue with junctioning and leveling. On their own, I don’t mind either mechanic, paired together, they work against one another. Had they forgone the level scaling and just had areas with monsters that were harder to fight, I think it would have lead to a more organic play through. Though I won’t lie, I did enjoy figuring out how to break the game on my own as a kid.
I just finished this game for the first time and I absolutely loved it. That final fight with Ultimecia had me so hyped and stressed (because my build was so unoptimized).
Reminds me of a bad acid trip 😂
The characters, the worlds and the music. FF7, FF8 and FF9 really made my childhood along with other rpgs like the suikoden games, legend of legaia and mana, chrono cross, tales of eternia and so many others. They just don't do rpgs like they used to anymore.
Don’t forget Legend of Dragoon!!
@@have_a_good_day420 and Grandia :) (Legend of Dragoon was so epic to me, having those QTE while fighting felt great)
you poor bastard..
ff8? 9? you played the crap ones..
go and try 12, get back to me
@@kwazhims3lf lol yeah recently got to play that for free with ps plus. got bored, so I stopped lmao
@@ot7012 *_so i stopped_*
.... this gave me the sads
Ff8 is the game that defined me. It was so formative and I took so much from its world that looked like my own on a warm summer day. From the (for the time) amazing graphics and music, to the characters I grew to love.
Through Squall's adventures I was able to learn how to turn from an introvert into someone who can be brave, kind, mindful to other viewpoints, loyal, and even passionate.
He is a fantastic character and I see why many people didn't like him - but he's closed off by design.
If I were to get a bit controversial. I think people secretly do like Squall's character, as I think a lot of the depictions of Cloud during the compilation of FF7 era has slowly molded him into Squall-lite. At least from my own interpretation. I see Cloud from FF7 and Squall as two very different characters, but that gap has slowly closed over the years.
@@SwanCC Nomura in particular paints Cloud as super emo during the whole Kingdom Hearts - Dissidia era. Fortunately Squall seems to the same guy in KH2 as he is in FF8.
@@TortleTalk Yeah, if you play FF7 in a vacuum, Cloud isn't emo at all. He can be uncaring, but he also can be hilarious, compassionate, cocky yet completely insecure and plain goofy. Hell, his "Let's mosey," line is one of my favorites in all gaming. The problem w/ Nomura is he LOVES brooding characters TOO MUCH (see FF13, where everyone is depressing) to the point they lack relate-ability and the audience doesn't care. When Sakaguchi was in charge, he knew how to balance those things out w/ lovable -human- traits. When it's only Nomura, we get KH/FF13 level characters without redeeming traits.
@@SwanCC I find it funny that people paint Squall so negatively and neglect Cloud when looking through that lens. That being said, I personally don't hate Cloud or anything, in fact I understand WHY he's that way and I like him as a character too.
I've never understood the criticism for the junction system entirely. Of course it had its flaws, but I don't think most RPG systems were exactly unbreakable. FF7 or Tactics are really loved but you can really unbalance it if you know what you're doing. FF8 just makes everything faster, for the sake of convenience.
Heck, even more that that. As much as you can draw the hell out of the enemies to get OP, you can also grind to LV99 at any point of a game with a traditional level system. Again, FF8 just wanted to leave grinding behind, and tried to make the game faster. A side-effect of it was making it faster to exploit too. A mistake, but not a unforgivable sin in terms of game design in my opinion. You can have a lot of fun as much as you let yourself go with it.
I think it's worth noting the game's incredible direction. Like, the composition of the cutscenes and FMVs. I think it has the best direction in the series by far. I don't know what it is, but they seem to always find great shot composition and frame the FMVs in the most exciting ways. I think that is high praise considering it is surrounded by 7, 9, and 10. But it beats them all in this department. 8 also has my favorite bestiary in the series. Its monster designs are incredible and its redesigns are just as good.
This game is the reason I became an artist. I didn't even notice it until fairly recently.
This was my first FF as a 9-10 yr old this game captivated me, I’ve also played through it multiple times as I got older something about this game gives me a warm joyous feeling I love the nostalgia.
Rinoa isn't ultimecia however I firmly believe ultimecia is Squall and Rinoa's descendant. She could be their great great great granddaughter or something
I got into FF because of the FF8 demo that came with brave fencer musashi. The cinematic of the dollet sequence, especially quistis gunning down the spider robot was the coolest shit I'd ever seen as a kid and I just had to play it. Played it, loved it and started playing the other games from there
It showed a soldier gunning down a spider in the demo in place of Quistis - at least on the Pizza Hut demo disc.
Same! Still have the copy of both and got into 8 because of it. Musashi is my fav action rpg of all time, too.
Damn I loved brave fencer musashi and I played the hell out of that demo you just hit me with a giant wave of nostalgia
BFM rules!
This was awesome, thank you for putting this together. This is the first pro FF8 video i have seen that actually understands and addresses the criticisms that I personally had for this game. Most pro FF8 videos just gloss over all troublesome aspects. I’ve been meaning to give FF8 another shot, especially since in my first play through i checked out of the story and completely ignored the crafting mechanic.
If you want the most comprehensive take on FF8, I found Resonant Arc's very, very long podcast series about it to be phenomenal. Definitely the best analysis of the game I've ever listened to. They're more on the forgiving side too, although do address some of its shortcomings in some length albeit with constructive criticism rather than "this sucks, you suck for liking this game".
I'm now 100% dreaming of a FF8 Remake where Enix actually deppens and fleshes out the story+characters and fully commits to the Rinoa is Ultimecia story
That's my dream. I really enjoy the 7 Remakes for what they are, but 8 was the one that really needed it more. It probably would even split into multiple games better than 7. It's just got a story that's a little too messy and rushed and I think a remake revising the script could work wonders here. And yes, making Rinoa into Ultimecia would honestly fix so much about the villain, add a tragic element to it all and further cement the core of the tale being a love story.
@@carebear1470 if ff8 remake ever happen, i hope squall and rinoa models will be based of the original ff8 game, not the remaster or any spin offs like dissidia
I wonder how many people, who played FF8 Actualy know that, Laguna and Raine were Squall's actual biological parents, and that Eleone was Squall adopted sister. That's why Squall called her Sis when they were kids in the orphanage...
I loved 8, mostly. If it didnt have level scaling itd easily be one my top 3
Final Fantasy 8 had to die on that hill so that other RPGs could push forward. It's funny though, cause there are other "modern" RPGs that have similar level scaling frustrations. I kept thinking about moments like in Dragon Quest 11, or even FF6 when there is a "Dark World" scenario, and all the enemies of the game get remixed into harder versions. I feel like those are effectively the same thing in ways, albeit communicated better visually and in the story.
I think level scaling was a good and terrible idea. They realized they wanted build and strategy to matter more than grinding, but instead of removing the level entirely they added the confusing level scaling making grinding detrimental and in the same breath they also made the character building grindy defeating the original point.
I feel like the game would be so much better if they removed levels entirely and made spells unlockable 1 of that you can attribute to stat like equipment, so you'd still have the character building of where you allocate your spells but without the grind. (an interesting take would be that if you use the equippped spell the stat it boost is disabled for the fight or maybe temporarily partially nerfed, so if you equip stronger spell you might still want to use them but you have to balance what spells you use and what you preserve for stats).
The game was really close to being straight up genius with the character progression but it fell short and sadly nobody ever tried to refine the idea but I'm still convinced there is a lot of potential there.
@@Laezar1 Nothing will change on how fun for me it was to fight the right monster in the right level to get the draw/drop I needed from it, all there is to your comment is how the game could be more "lazy appealing" and maybe you are forgetting the game was made by the workaholic japanese people initially for japanese people and only then it came to the lazy americans. I've played many western RPGs as well and they mostly annoyed me on how they didn't want to piss me off by giving me hard work to do.
Whats wrong with level scaling?
Or do you just like to OP your way through games? Where's the challenge (or fun) in that?
@@canalultimateattack3169 Good point
FF8 has arguably, the best Visuals, atmosphere and of course, MUSIC, surpassing even the legendary 7 on the PS1 FF franchise era.. FF8 was also the first attempt to actually put strategy on a turn based rpg.
I enjoyed the video. Just wanted to mention that Kitase has since elaborated on the Rinoa/Ultimecia theory and he took back his previous statement debunking it.
I translated and uploaded a video of him talking about this topic, but the gist is: Kitase didn't write with that theory in mind but he acknowledges that there's a possibility Nojima and/or Nomura did since he knows they like inserting "hidden" details like that. He talks about how between 3 writers each of their interpretations could have been different. All he can say for certain is that the theory wasn't explicitly laid out in the final manuscript, which is why he was quick to shoot that question down when it came up to him in an interview (he said he wasn't prepared at all to receive a question like that).
Another thing that was revealed was that SE has had internal debates about what to do with the whole Rinoa/Ultimecia theory for spin-off games and such. They've been aware of the theory for a long time (besides Kitase it seems 😂) and they weren't sure just how far they could go with it. But that part was probably clear given the references to it in Dissidia.
1:35
I have the ost for 8 (7,9,10,10-2 and 12), never heard this sound before! The sound that plays in this scene doesn't sound like that!
This game is my favorite game of all time period. This game was my everything for years and it will always hold a very special place in my ❤
I’ve always loved FF8 - it was one of the first games I ever played and it blew my mind. Definitely not the best in the series but it’s undeniably unique.
Best in the series for me.
Which would you say is best?
Anything after 12 is pretty much garbage.
Loved your video. Really resonated with my first time experience. And yes, no doubt Rinoa IS Ultimecia. Thank you for this.
Also. This long video wasn't boring in the slightest.
FF8 is my favourite and changed my gaming life forever. The graphics at the time made FF7 look like it was a SNES game. It was a spectacle and truly epic.
I’ve played this game more times than I can count over 20+ years. I’ve never, EVER seen Irvine make that shot at Trabia Garden. What the hell.
Damn this is a great analysis vid. Loved that you mentioned about Squall being the “quiet type” which allows the player to project, start from scratch and relate easily. Which is also a good launchpad for what’s about to come character development-wise. I’ve never thought of that before til you mentioned it. FF8 is def my fave of all time cos of the story. Gameplay is frustrating but the story and time compression mindfuck is what made me come back for more. It’s been years but the story stays with me. Would love to play this again!!
Ff8 was my first game on ps1, first rpg, and first ff. It will always be my top favorite and is a treasure to me ❤️
That being said your a keeper 💯🤘🏻😆
This is a really nice video, honestly! I've been having a hard time getting into Final Fantasy VIII, and hearing about why people who love something love it so much can really help me appreciate it. I look forward to trying it once again, and seeing if I can't reach a better understanding of it!
Imagine if FF8 gets the same remake treatment as FF7 and they add the Rinoa is Ultemecia Plot. Please Square
The way you paced the video felt very fluid and relatively easy to consume despite its length. I really enjoyed this video even though I have never even seen gameplay of FF8 before today. Willing to give it a shot after this! Hopefully you'll make more videos of this nature in the future.
FF8 is my favorite game of all time and I appreciate the time and effort you put to make this video its always great hearing more and more people talk about this game and love it for the most part. I agree with the junction system and level scaling of enemies being a flaw as it makes the game unforgiving. I think the only thing I disagree with is that the story is messy or at least thats what I think you were implying in that section but regardless I thought you were incredibly fair and this is probably the best deep drive/critique of FF8 ive seen so far and overall a great video. cant wait to see you talk more about FF8 or really any other game
Damn, I'm really flattered to read all that. Appreciate you man.
Messy probably wasn't the best word for me to use, but I definitely think the middle disk 2 to the start of disk 3 section could have been tightened up or paced out more. With all that information downloaded into my brain, I really appreciate the bigger picture it paints, but they definitely could have added a few more bread crumbs in the story itself. There are a few subtle ones throughout though, like Irvine talking to Squall about "SeeD never questioning their mission" right before the assassination pops off. I also think there are some NPCs that talk about Balamb being the only Garden that uses Guardian Forces? Or maybe it's in the school computer?
Looks like ff8 was their first taste of an edgelord rpg
@@kevinvu5432 Sephiroth and Vincent might like a word.
@@SwanCC but for real. I mourne this game. Because it just doesn't feel fully realized or fully throughout.
Squall is just my least favorite character and he learns so incredibly slow.
But I also believe games like ff10 are dated story wise and needs. Proper remake.
@@kevinvu5432 A part of me wants to see what these older games would look like if they were given the FF7 Remake treatment and updated for a new audience. I feel like 7, 8 and 9 in particular are the strangest to try and abridge, as you can only do so much with those faux 3D sprites to make them look good, and if you change the story you'd probably anger more people than you'd please.
The FF6 Pixel Remaster might be the best example of what you can do outside of a full blown remake/genre swap like FF7:R.
This was my first ff game and my favourite, have played through it more than 10 times and this video somehow managed to show me aspects of the game that I didn't knew! Amazing video, the best I've seen about ff8! Congrats!
I remember being so enthralled with this game. Thinking more and more as I progressed through the game that it would actually outdo ff7’s amazing story line. Then disc 3 happened.
Yeah but most ff have a weird final act. The only one that really makes sense is 6. And thats if you squint.
Final Fantasy 2’s twist was sort of basically expected if only because conquering heaven and hell is basically the only fantasy way to go beyond “I summon a tornado to ravage almost all civilization”.
9’s twist can be seen coming if you realize Zidane is the only creature that looks like a monkey.
10’s twist makes sense if you keep in mind evil religious fantasy tropes. However, Tidus being the character dreamt up by Sin, while revealed early, still has neat implications come 10-2.
15 does not actually have any twist: your person is Noctis, the goal is to stop Ardyn (and he was always suspicious), and you stop Ardyn at the price of years of Starscourge. The final battle is also just Ardyn vs Noctis as well.
"Final Fantasy VIII's story is very weird"
I think this deserves an award for understatement.
I haven't been one to subscribe/buy into fan theories, but the Rinoa is Ultimecia one makes a lot of sense when listening to it rather than reading. I really like the thought that Ultimecia is the version of Rinoa that failed to find/save Squall and became the villain of the game. It made a lot more sense when explained here than just reading it and I will stick to that theory now. Love this video and how it shows the same way I feel about Final Fantasy 8
UA-cam recommendations can sometimes be on point and this was definitely one of them ! Still in the process of watching this but so far stellar work !
Looking forward to more videos from you and planning to back to your FFXIV video after this, keep up the amazing work !
I'll get back to making videos as soon as my sanity returns. Thanks for giving me a shot!
I loved this video. 8 was my favorite as a child and it still is. Never thought about the fan theory of Rinoa and Ultimecia, but I will never look at the story same way. It was a great video
rinoa is ultimecia theory is backed with the ending theory where squall actually is dead. and she gone crazy at the ending seeing squall come back (u can notice only her can see squall)
I love FF8. FF7 was my first experience, and it stands out to me in terms of art style and theme.
None of them have been as dark or industrial since.
But FF8 managed to be NOTHING like it's predecessor, and yet is just as epic in every way.
Also, FF7 always flirted around the love-story angle while never bringing it to the forefront, and FF8 makes it central. Rinoa's in real danger at one point, and you end up in space to save her.
While in space you get what approximates a "date" on the Ragnarok.
I also love how alien Esthar is, and I love the 3 gardens. The Galbadia vs. Balaamb garden battle is a great analog to Weapon attacking Junon/Midgar scenes.
Also the monsters flooding from the moon, and the Sorceress angles are strange an interesting.
The time-warping & Ultimecia/orphanage story was a bit of a turn, and I think that's the analog for the identity crisis of Cloud in FF7.
Sometimes I think FF8 might be better than FF7, but they're so different and equally epic.
The Junction system really screwed me up as a kid. I fumbled through Materia at age 10 or 11, and Junction really confused me.
By the way, I'm working on a documentary about the legacy of the first PlayStation, and I've been re-writing and re-recording my dialogues soooo much. I feel your pain and appreciate the amount of work that goes into a video like this.
People who haven't tried to make content like this just have no idea how much work it is or how difficult it can be to bring yourself to stick with or even start it back up.
im totaly there with u. ff7 was my first game, but ff8 is my true love. both are extremly good and i dont see point in argueing which one is better. i wished square could replacate the magic 20 more times, in the meantime golden age of ff's faded away after ff10
im about to watch this video it better not disappoint! jk everyone's views of ff games are sacred to themselves. love to hear other peoples experiences. thanks for the video.
I feel like FF8 is a game that is best enjoyed on a second playthrough. The more knowledge you have about the Cards, the Draw System, the Junction System, and the Side-Quest greatly increases the enjoyability of the game. One of my most memorable moments in it is the dungeon that Brothers is in. The game presents it as a "Go here and get this number" in the main quest, and you can totally just leave at any point, yet you just naturally feel intrigued to explore and solve the puzzle ending up with a cool boss fight and a miss-able GF.
Beat the game with my highest character being 31. Card mod to get your heros for ultimicia and just play the healing game. Second highest was 24 🤣
What sucks is I found grinding for cards was worse than grinding mindlessly in traditional gameplay.
In fact, its why I don't play ff14 TT
I think had the studio not cut staff from the project half way through we would be talking about this game in a very difrent way today, I think some people's gripes with the game are legitimate flaws but then others who just like to debase absolutely everything about this game theres allot of unwarranted hate thrown this games way, I love 6 through to 12 but still to this day find 8 the most immersive and fun on replay and despite its flaws still one of the best games ive ever played, this game will go down as a missed opportunity, it seriously could have been a masterpiece but for those who love game know how special it truly is, all hail the Junction system ...
Breezy still lives in my head
Fun fact about Ashe and Bosch's story. They were supposed to be the main characters of XII, but the director got put to task by the higher ups to put in Vaan and probably his friend too because the director's last game Vagrant Story had a gruff older protagonist (the Bosch analogue) and the higher ups said that one didn't do so hot so play to market expectations.
Imagine being an exec at Square-Enix who hasn't figured out that a mainline FF game is gonna sell on its name alone.
@@reloadpsi It's going to sell, yes. But they want it to sell more. Capitalism demands constantly higher profits.
So that's the reason why it feels like vaan is just... There, he was the least interesting character.
I honestly loved the Edea/ Ultamecia plot twist a lot. A future sorceress possessing a past sorceress to prevent her death.
I remember on my first play through i farmed all my caracters to lvl 99 each so i can be ready for the final boss...little did i know how difficult i would be after that. I was convinced that the final act in the castle was extra hard compared to the rest of the game. Now i understand why it was...but when i really think about it, i think i made the right call because winning that last fight was incredibly satisfying due to it's difficulty, when i look at a speedrun and how easy they defeat bosses i can only think that i've had it better than most.
One of my favorite game of all time
Our pizza boy dropped the demo in our yard and I found it one day. It was also my introduction to the series. It was my first true gaming experience. I've been playing this game on and off for the past 20 years.
This was a 2 day watch for me and I really enjoyed it.
I never heard that fan theory before but I really like it. It would add so much to Ultimecia that was missing before and even flips the criticism that she came out of nowhere since she was actually your party member and even in the game logo all along. Not to mention, what a tragic way to turn out, and all she wanted was to see Squall again. This also explains Griever and why she would go to that specific point in the past as well both points really boggled me whenever I went through the game. I didn't know Griever's (the gf) name changed based on the ring though since I always kept it as Griever.
I wish I had more to say about the video but only the last half is in my memory due to watching it across 2 days. I think there was something at the beginning that I didn't quite agree with but other than that I completely agree with this, especially the junction system. A lot of people give it crap but I thought it was a really deep and flexible system that was trying to be as good as, or better than, FF7's materia system without copying it. This was a long video and I feel like you could easily talk about this game so much more.
ff8 > ff7 because Laguna and "man with a machinegun".
Hell yeah, glad you enjoyed it.
There is absolutely a bunch I still could have said, but I couldn't think of a way to include it all without it being a 3 hour rambling mess. Had to cut talking about the Japanese translation, even though it has what is ostensibly the 'true' interpretation of Ultimecia. TL;DR: Ultimecia in the Japanese version "Draws" Griever from Squall's mind, making a monster from thin air... Somehow. Then she junctions herself to it (?). It creates tons of questions about Junctions and Drawing, and all you get is a thematically confusing fight against a lion monster who can use Quistis' best blue magic.
In hindsight, there is tons of stuff I could have elaborated on. Been enjoying FF6 Pixel Remaster, and it got me thinking about ways they could have added unique abilities to the characters without having to leave them at low health. It's also made me appreciate being able to swap Junctions a lot more, because holy hell is managing gear on 12+ party members time consuming when the game is constantly swapping your party on you.
Anyways, cheers man, hopefully I was able to keep you entertained for a while.
This was also my first entry into FFVIII and holy smokes is it intrinsically tied to my coming-of-age mind. I loved every moment of this video. You seem to love this game like one loves a true family member; you acknowledge the bad--even taking loving shots at it--while embracing it as something that is a part of you.
I love the Rinoa is Ultimata hypothesis.
I've been looking for a reason to replay this game as an adult, and I think I just found it!
Hey Sean, Greg from Atlus here. Congrats on another excellent video! I appreciate your discussion and use of the "death of the author" way of thinking. Personally I agree that the interpretation by the viewer of a work of art, of which video games are, are just as valid as the creator's interpretation.
Speaking of "death of the author," we think you'd really enjoy Persona 4: Arena Ultimax. We've got a staggering roster of fighters from the Persona series that we can't wait for you to see.
Greg is my favourite character in Final Fantasy.
ooh from Atlas! Love your work!
@@SwanCC Greg is actually just Gilgamesh. 😐
I love the junction system!
The tutorials never bothered me cause they can be skipped soon as they start 🤗
Same, I also never had a problem with the Draw system since I was already used to Thief classes in older games. In which you would be stealing items from every enemy just like the draw system. I honestly feel like people complained a bit too much about something that wasn't as problematic as they thought
@@bloody4558 I think a lot of people were expecting a ff7 -2 kind of thing from 8 and were left disappointed ☹️
@@bloody4558 oh and I love drawing on the remaster! Speed boost plus the full atb bar in game cheats make it a breeze to draw. It's the only reason why I like the remaster 😅😅
@@fallenwing25 Very possible, FF7 enraptured people on multiple levels.
Having grown with older FF games, I fail to see why people though ff7 was that special aside from the technological innovations. So I was immune to that effect. FF7 is a great game, but I loved the new Ideas on 8. 7 merely expanded on the systems of 6. 8 however did it's own thing, and it's story was also much more detached from the older games unlike 7.
@@bloody4558 highly agree!
Kitase has backed off his debunking of the Rinoa-is-Ultimecia theory! He says he was asked the question suddenly without time to really consider it. The script was written by three people, and the other two could have easily implied this.
I have played through this game in its entirety no less than a dozen times and never made the connection that Irvine hesitated in taking the shot because he never forgot that Edea was the woman who raised him. You're the first to point that out to me, so thank you!
Maybe because Irving's excuse of always choking in moments like that sounds pretty convincing in the heat of the moment. But Irving must had been really torn inside about being ordered to assassinate the woman who took care of them as orphan children, and very weirded out that everyone else in the group seemed pretty ok with it.
Yeah I found this out so late in life I was like 🤯
One of the changes i'd make on an FF8 remake is to make Junction take any magic that you've ever acquired and treat it like a full 100 stack. No need to stockpile, you get the first one and its unlocked. From then refining and drawing are only if you want to cast it during a battle. Might require some other rebalances with some of the top tier magic but that is something that could be accomplished.
Have to agree with you on the start being too slow and tutorial heavy.
Squall literally took the phrase "I love you to the moon and back" to the heart.
Honestly, if nothing else, the music from this title makes it an instant classic. This was the 2nd FF game i started, shortly after beginning ffx, literally only because i knew Squall by name. Although I love FFX and simultaneously have yet to finish 8, it holds this place in my mind where there's this little pocket of endless warmth bliss. Hearing the song just outside of Balamb garden, spending FAR too long trying to get a complete understanding of the junction system and grind for fish fins - the track just puts me at peace.
Also Laguna's battle theme is seriously TOO good
FF8 is by far my favourite game. I adored the world, the characters were relatable and actually grew. The music is Nobuo’s best and the story is a genuine mystery to unravel each time you play. I’m looking forward to my next play through.
I don't normally comment on videos, but I had to drop a comment and a subscribe on a year old video after the SeeD name reasoning! FF8 was my first FF and therefore my favorite - thanks for the in depth share of your experience, homie!
What is it? At 28:34 Sean says the choice of SeeD is not arbitrary and that backwards it is DeeS.
@@devonmarcus101but what does it mean?? 😂
@@jcin9129Dees nutz? 😅
Damn, Rinoa = Ultimecia is an awesome theory, made me get goosebumps. I now want to apply this kind of a plot twist into a TTRP game.
maybe i was a stupid kid but i just thought rinoa = ultimecia was uncontested canon when i played
I always read it as she was a descendant of squall/rinoa. like if you take the past stuff with laguna into account, it'd be about these peoples family through 3 generations. the thing that kinda sold it for me personally is the ring thing, because we don't really know how GFs get made, are they people? idk. but I kinda figured that if ultimecia is part of their family, griever would be either him sacrificing himself to protect his family. or the legend of the knight symbolized by the creature on his ring, greiver, turns into a GF, it'd make sense the inheritor of that ring would have the GF. I guess that works for rinoa as well. but since she's from "generations into the future" idk why it'd be rinoa.
It’s not and makes no sense.
Rinoa is Zell
This is my first FF game and so, it will always be my favorite. I replayed it many times and the soundtrack is truly incredible.
7 was my first and fave FF, 8 was in a tough spot having to live up to 7 after FF7 basically made RPGs mainstream in the West
The only hole in the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory that I can't really explain. Ultimecia was described as being a sorceress far into the future, far beyond the lifetime of our heros of the game. So how does Rinoa live that long? I don't think being a sorceress gives you immortality.
It doesn't. In the ultimania, it said that sorceress have the same life span as a regular human. For as "they can't die until they pass on their powers," well, we see ultimecia in a zombie-like state when she was trying to pass on her powers upon her death at the end of the game.
@@fallenwing25scary
FF8 is my favorite 3D FF game. On the other hand, I have developed a crippling addiction to 14...
Side note, the Raid Series in Shadowbringers is a fantastic FF8 reference.
About Ultimecia being Rinoa, there's also a strong possibility that nobody ever seems to consider: the sorceress from the future could easily be Squall and Rinoa's daughter/direct descendant. That would make the whole story of the game the most cursed and tragic love story of all time. 😅
I mean... Laguna falls in love with a girl called Julia but he's injured during a mission and ends up living in a small mountain town, never seeing that girl ever again. Then, he meets there another woman called Raine which already have a daughter named Ellone who's a potential witch that gets taken away by Sorceress Adel's minions at some point. Laguna leaves to bring the kid back while Raine is pregnant with there child, Squall (all that part of the story is not exactly theory since it's heavily implied in the game).
Roughly seventeen to eighteen years later, Squall and Julia's daughter meet and they end up falling in love after being through a lot together, thus fulfilling the love story described in the "Eyes on me" song (a song about Laguna that was written by Julia... which is kinda creepy since it's about stalking people lol). Everything's fine and love triumphs. Except it clearly doesn't.
You have two intertwined timelines for most of the game: the past and the present. But then a third one (the future) appears out of nowhere and seems disconnected from the two previous generations of characters, so what I'm saying is just that having three generations of the same bloodline fighting in a loophole because of a failed romance could also be a quite logical scenario.🤔
So I have a problem with the " (a song about Laguna that was written by Julia... which is kinda creepy since it's about stalking people lol)"
More specifically: it's about stalking people
You've clearly never had a healthy relationship, or you grew up in this new generation that thinks holding the door open for someone is 'misogyny/patriarchy.'
There isn't a single thing in the entire song that is about stalking. Laguna, despite being a pretty handsome man (and I say that as a guy who's straight) is awkward and shy around women, especially if he likes them. And Julia was also semi-famous, and popular atleast within her sphere.
She was, in his eyes, the popular girl at school, and he had low self confidence, so instead of approaching her he patronized her business frequently, and enjoyed her music, since in his mind, it was all he could do, since he didn't think she'd ever give him the time of day (again, due to low self esteem)
However, he didn't realize that she'd noticed him, and over time she too became attracted to him (likely because he was handsome, as well as maybe other factors) that's literally the entire theme of 'Eyes on me.'
The song isn't "**My last night here for you, you followed me, all the way hooooome. My last night here for youuuuuu~ i saw you staring, from the pole!"
[Verse 1]
I never sang my songs
On the stage, on my own
Whenever said my words
Wishing they would be heard
I saw you smiling at me
Was it real, or just my fantasy?
You'd always be there in the corner
Of this tiny little bar
(She wanted to sing her own song, but lacked the inspiration, she had things she wanted to say but no one to listen to them, and lacked the inspiration. She saw him in the corner whenever he would come in to enjoy her performance with a smile on his face)
[Verse 2]
My last night here for you
Same old songs, just once more
My last night here with you?
Maybe yes, maybe no
I kind of liked it your way
How you shyly placed your eyes on me
Did you ever know
That I had mine on you?
[Chorus]
Darling, so there you are
With that look on your face
As if you're never hurt
As if you're never down
Shall I be the one for you
Who pinches you softly but sure?
If frown is shown then
I will know that you are no dreamer
(The last night her performances would be melody-only, because after thier talk, he inspired her to write these lyrics. She's unsure if after inviting him there if she'll ever see him again. She **liked** his cute shyness, and she was watching him as well, but also lacked the courage to approach him until this night. She wants to know more about him, and wants to be the person he falls for, to hold, and to be there for him. The last part simply referring to the fact he's always smiling)
[Verse 3]
So let me come to you
Close as I wanna be
Close enough for me
To feel your heart beating fast
And stay there as I whisper
How I loved your peaceful eyes on me
Did you ever know
That I had mine on you?
(She wants to be with him, to put her head on his chest, and tell him how she felt about him, that she was joyous of the fact he always came to watch her, and that she noticed.)
[Chorus]
Darling, so share with me
Your love if you have enough
Your tears if you're holding back
Or pain if that's what it is
How can I let you know
I'm more than the dress and the voice?
Just reach me out, then
You will know that you are not dreaming
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(She wants him to love her, share his pain and sadness, she wants him to know that she wants to be MORE than 'just' Julia, the songstress to him. And she wants him to reach for her, to pursue her.)
[Chorus]
Darling, so there you are
With that look on your face
As if you're never hurt
As if you're never down
Shall I be the one for you
Who pinches you softly but sure?
If frown is shown then
I will know that you are no dreamer
(repeat)
So tell me where exactly in this song is it about a stalker, or stalking?
@@raielle That was a joke...
@@raielle by the way, I'm born on March 1984. I'm 38.
But thanks for assuming a lot about be from a single joke and for posting a long ass message to make me rethink my whole love life with your patronizing tone, dude... everybody loves it when random people do that. Yeah, sure. 😒
@@Oleus you're just mad you got called out.
You weren't joking. You're backpedalling. Grow up.
@@raielle Ok, whatever bro... that little "lol" after my original comment about that song should have been a good indication of the intended tone of said comment but yeah, you're right, I'm clearly the one guetting mad over futilities here.🙃
In my head-canon, Ultimecia is Rinoa in an alternate timeline where Squall did not go after Rinoa after he saved her in space, resulting her becoming a full sorceress after being sealed off. She tries to come back to the time when Squall was alive to change her fate, and finally able to break the time loop and fate of becoming a sorceress. Thus, the title of Final Fantasy 8, refers to her dying wish. Squall was her final wish, her final fantasy.
Yes this I also believe
Also a low hanging fruit crack theory I have in addition is that the Number 8 in English actually also looks like the symbol for infinity, which fits well with a game that has time compression, timeline bounces and sorceresses that live for long periods of time
Agreed. Where she picked up that German accent, or whatever that is at the end with all the k's, is anyone's guess. But if this theory isn't true, how can Ultimecia have Squall's Griever as her GF?
@@runeramdas Squall gave it to her in space as a promise that he will always come to save her. In that alternate timeline, he didn't. Instead Riona spent the rest of her life being quarantined with Dr. Odine, where she picked up his German accent. Until she was deemed to dangerous being left conscious, and being sealed off without seeing Squall ever again. While Squall married Ellone, lived and died a peaceful life in Winhill, never again seeing his first love. Just like his father Laguna before him. 😢
@@KyranSpardathere’s a moment in the end FMV where we see Rinoa’s mask burst, which can only be interpreted as an experience of a separate timeline. Maybe that’s the previous timeline where Squall fails?
It’s the soundtrack that really ties it all together for me. Also breaking the junction system within the first 2 hours always makes it a fun playthrough
My first FF game. It ... consumed me. It ... still blows me away. Thank you for this tribute. :)
This is my favorite Final Fantasy game even to this day. It meant so much to me when it first came out & I just replayed through it with my wife. Seeing all the things that impacted me as well as the connections I have with Squall's arc helped us understand each other more. I love this game so much & I really enjoyed your analysis. Thank you.
Thank you for this video. I saw the length and almost wrote it off instantly, but you kept me in the whole way through cause I realized your takes on FF VIII were many I shared as well. It was also my first Final Fantasy and I replay it every couple years.
I love love FF8 too and all the mysteries in it, and the Rinoa theory is very compelling. The story is just so complex and convoluted that it's hard to absorb in one play of the game, which could easily be construed as a negative - and maybe it is - but at the same time, you can discover new things and nuances years later that can totally reshape the story as a whole. Few games do something like this.
The makers have stated that both the Rinoa and the Squall dream theory are false.
@SwordHMX Too late. They didn't explain it in game.
I love your intro! 😂
Honestly, the true biggest singular flaw of FF8 was unavoidable no matter what they would have done. Anything being tasked with following FF7 was destined to be handed a hate grenade. That being true aside; FF8 was a really great game in its own right in all aspects.
55:32 yeah this is so Kunihiko Ikuhara, you should check out his animes you’ll find them satisfactory in that way, he does embrace that letting go if his creations interpretations once they’re out there
This video has just blown me away. There are a lot of videos dissecting this game on UA-cam, but yours is perhaps the most convincing. You've done an outstanding job balancing your nostalgia with valid critiques. Final Fantasy VIII isn't my favourite "game" per se, but it is the most fascinating that I've ever played. There is so much to like, and every shortcoming is just a step away from brilliance. Thank you for putting all of this into words.
In particular, your Rinoa=Ultimecia explanation made me shiver. I've always been compelled by this theory, and your explanation has become a head canon that I find deeply satisfying. I'll be taking that thank you.
Sidenote: the first time you said "goblins" I thought you'd just misspoken "gauntlets", but the second time you said it I was convinced you really said goblins. Which was it? 😆
I also believe that Rinoa is Ultimecia, no matter how much it’s debunked, because it adds such a dark, tragic, almost horrifying unspoken angle to this tale and the love story at the centre of it.
What really sealed the deal for me was when I played the Dissidia games. Ultimecia is no longer just left to the sidelines as an almost unknown force, she’s front and centre, talking and interacting with people, including Squall…and holy shit, for a character with so little presence in the original game, she knows how to fuck with Squall. Like she’s pulling the same levels of mind-fuckery and emotional damage on him that Sephiroth is pulling on Cloud.
All of a sudden, it really clicked in my brain that she KNOWS him, and knows him well.
Also, Squall never came off to me as a sulky emo. If anything, the dude’s a savage, he just keeps it all in his head and that’s very valid of him. And yes, Laguna is the best character in the entire game.
+1 to Squall is a savage. It's why people are always trying to defuse the tension around him with humor. Fear. He's pretty sure he's the fucking hell bringer, and so is everyone else - we get to watch him learn how.
If it weren't for Squall, Seifer would be a king - but that's a huge shadow to live in. No wonder he's got mommy issues.
Edit: Holyshit this is really deserving of more than getting lost in youtube comments.
The savage thing fits further with all he Lion references, and Rinoa being the only one who could "tame the lion". Jesus, mind blown.
I like the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory. I imagine that in the future Rinoa has become Ultimecia and Squall her knight but the SeeDs of that timeline kill him as he's defending her and she wants to do time compression to wipe out all SeeDs as revenge. But it's definitely not the case. At 46:25 in the video, the text on screen shows Edea telling your party that Ultimecia is from a future "many generations ahead" of their time. Rinoa just wouldn't be alive at the time that Ultimecia is a sorceress.
May I ask if this whole Rinoa-is-Artemisia-theory is just an attempt to bring the epicness of how Sephiroth fucks with Cloud to a game that simply just lacks the deepness of the story of FFVII?
You are projecting and supporting something that is just not there to find reasons to make a good game better. You want it to be up there where VII realms just because you think it must be that good, yet it simply isn't.
Don't get me wrong, I hold VIII in high regards, but not that high that I'm going to force myself into delusional theories.
@@homerp.hendelbergenheinzel6649there is actual evidence to support the Rinoa = Ultimecia theory.
Rinoa asks Squall what his necklace is, to which he exclaims it’s called Griever. Ultimecia summons a Lion like beast named Griever.
Rinoa’s arms in the FF8 logo looked like like raven claws. Ultimecia’s arm are very raven like.
Some of Ultimecia’s moveset in the Dissidia games are copied from Rinoa’s in FF8.
Not only that, but Rinoa does transform into Ultimecia in FF8’s ending cutscene, and she does look like Rinoa in the FMV.
@@kasam0308 first of all, one of the developers said in an interview in 2016 ( I think it was, don't nail me on that year) that the theory is not true, i.e. Rinoa is not Artemisia. Secondly, it is safe to assume that Artemisias power goes so far ( she can go back in time), that it would be easy for her to find out about the rings name with ease ( she is a sorceress, after all and a very powerful at that). The best way to think of it is, that she found out while Squall and the group fight her in the endboss-battle. She casts Griever to confront Squall with his "inner demon" ( english is not my mother tongue, I lack a better word in English for what I mean).
FFVII also had one such theory, Cloud died after the fall when they fought in reactor No. 5 in Midgar. It was assumed that no one could survive the fall from "the rotten pizza" down to the slums. It was also debunked by a developer and we should go with what they say and not what we think - at least if they ( the developers) come out and give a statement on a subject ( especially when they say a theory is true or not). They are an instance we can not negotiate with, because they now best and not we fans.
The R=U statement was actually TAKEN BACK by Square within the last year. I think they realized it makes the game soooo much better.
What frustrates me with the "rinoa = ultimecia" theory is that I don't understand japanese and I feel the story is complex enough that a lot of the nuances are most likely lost in translation and I wish I could experience it in japanese for that reason, to figure out if those important details are the same.
With what I know of the story it's a compelling theory but the alternative also kinda works, the idea that ultimecia is just the last sorceress of the future trying to escape fate when the world has gone to shit and everyone wants her dead preemptively because of what she did in the future to avoid this very same thing, and in doing so she kickstart the series of event that leads to her tragic future.
The thing is that the rinoa theory works excelently thematically so it makes it more appealing while the other would imply the writers kinda fucked up somewhere and didn't explain some key points properly or gave enough context for the vilain to be fully fleshed out.
Still I actually really like the idea that ultimecia has nothing to do with the party and is just trying to escape her fate because while it doesn't thematically work with the love angle it mirrors squall quite well, in the sense that squall is also thrust in position he wants nothing to do with against his will, but while squall does end up doing his best to make the most of it ultimecia is trying her best to avoid her fate. It's not as sexy but it works. And I would be really curious to know what the original intent was.
(one thing I would really like to know is the original name for griever, because I feel like that name is significant and the idea that griever is a memento of a lost lover that is being grieved makes a lot of sense for rinoa = ultimecia theory)
i believe FF9 has a similar issue regarding Necron, if i recall (and its been YEARS since i read this so my brain isn't going to be too reliable) the IDEA of Death/Necron is told throughout the entire game but due to translation issues, it doesn't come across nearly as strong and that's why people where shocked by a surprise real final boss.
again, i can not be sure if this is the case or not, it was nearly 10 years ago on a now ancient Gamefaqs thread, but i wouldn't be that shocked if it happened.
@@TheAuron32 Yeah that's probably the case
@@TheAuron32 Necron is more a symbolic enemy and antithesis of the theme of life in Final Fantasy IX. Additionally, Final Fantasy IX also the theme of Reflection on the past tiles in the series. Kuja as a villian is supposed to reflect all of the Villains of the previous Final Fantasy tiltes but near the end the one he is most similar to is Xande from Final Fantasy 3 who planed to flood the world with Darkness to preserve his own now mortal life. His schemes accidentally create the Cloud of Darkness akin to Kuja's despair creating Necron. For these reasons its why Hades was likely scrapped late in development as the final boss.
@@costby1105 ah, thanks dude, my memory was so fuzzy lol
7 was the first one I played, but 8 had so much more impact on me.
I just used blind against the t-rexaur not sleep.
And I also pronounce her name like you do, Rinoa.
Amazing review. I have replayed FF VIII countless times as a child and teenager and i was obsessed to uncover every unseen corner. It was obvious to me then that the story implied that Ultimecia somehow was connected to Squall and my impression (before internet theories) was that she was Rinoa far into a future that she forgot the specifics but clinged on to feelings. The GF losing memories subplot makes no sense otherwise.
Yep! R=U ties so many of the otherwise random dialogue an plot.