I feel like maybe I should point out that my favorite Expanded Universe books were probably The Bane Trilogy (or The Plagueis Novel) and that, again, I have nothing but love for the EU... But that George Lucas had a very different vision for many things. And all I'm doing in this video, is speculating about what that vision was. So please, fellow diehard EU fans, try to enjoy it for what it is.
The EU was great. If papa Lucas wants to change something it is acceptable. I remember being a little annoyed about seeing the Death Star blue prints in the PT... because the EU story was really good. But I accepted it. Now it is hard to swallow Disney's changes.. mostly because they killed the Buffalo and then ran around wearing the skin and letting the rest to Rot.
Well, I enjoy your content, I just don't enjoy this version of events, so complaining about it can come off as a personally directed grievance when really, it isn't. With a franchise as big as Star Wars and a fandom as diverse as the Star Wars fandom, people will disagree on anything, that's just how it is. You have people who love entire trilogies and those who hate entire trilogies, or those who hate an entire show or love an entire show, it's always a mixed bag. But it's all "from a certain point of view"
Darth Bane: I was born in the darkness, molded by it, no one cared who I was till I put on the mask. Darth Revan: Ok...I think you’ve had enough death sticks for today dude.
And this is one more reason y it sux , no good story is shitty enough to leave people decide what is real, only old IPs owned by creatively bankrupt Corp has that particularity . The core structure of what made it good and consistent is eroded at every reboot. The hell with logic i want a cybernetic Luke...
Amen to that. Grew up with the EU, and I’ll pass it on to the next generation. Because as crazy as they could get, the majority of the EU comics, novels and games brought us great stories and memorable characters that deserve to be remembered while Di$ney is forgotten.
I think George has always played loose with his overall story on universal scales. The movies were always his babies, and he focused primarily on their continuity, but he has always indicated that he intended others continue the stories. That, combined with his affinity for fan films tells me the EU, although not his personal canon, was still the way he intended it. That being his intention to let others tell the stories.
George seemed to have no problem with other continuities existing with fans and other creators as long as he could continue his own. Thanks to Disney now we have to fight to turn things back to their natural order.
I don't have a problem with the "Lucas Purists" hating the Legends EU because George wasn't 100% in control. A lot of ideas were ran by him and he approved some and vetoed others. He did at least have some say in the EU. These people are rare and from my experience most tend to have their head stuck so far up their ass that they won't listen to any other arguments. (no offense Thor) They just ignore that Lucas changed his mind so many times that there are tons of contradictions in what he's said. The kind of people that you can just brush off with a "Whatever man" and just ignore because there is no point even talking to them. However, it's the Disney canon fanboys that say Legends is shit because it wasn't George's vision that really urk me. These idiots conveniently forgot that besides for season seven of the Clone Wars, we haven't gotten anything Lucas-approved since he sold out to Disney. Disney even shot down George's outline for the sequels. Yet these fools continue to argue that Legends was bad because it was never "true canon" even though Lucas had 1000x more involvement with Legends than he has or ever will have with Disney canon. And there is a bunch of these asshats on the internet that I interact with on a regular basis and they legit anger me.
Legends wasn't shit because it wasn't Lucas's vision. That just makes it licensed fanfiction, and that's fine. No. Legends was shit because 90% of it was written by Z-lister hacks, like Karen Traviss, who even after decades in the industry has never produced anything original (ie something not based on a big name franchise). As for George changing his mind all the time: a very smart and wise man once said that tales grow in the telling. This man has left behind a vast work of hundreds of stories set in the same universe, and a lot of them contradict eachother, because he was constantly bouncing ideas, refining plots and characters, learning new information and building them into the mythos he was creating by himself. If you hadn't figured it out yet, this man was Prof. Tolkien. So yeah, what if George changed his mind on a lot of stuff regarding Star Wars? He created it. He came-up with it. It's the product of his intellect. And since the human intellect is not stagnant, neither are it's products unbending, set in stone. Artists, true artists are extremely maximalist people. They are never satisfied with their work, they always seek to improve it. So don't compare Lucas, the original creator of Star Wars changing his mind, to the fanfiction garbage the leeches hanging off of it came-up with. And that goes for both Legends and Disney.
i believe in some point EU become part of Lucas Canon Quinlan Vos name was mentioned in Revange of the Sith in 2005, and i am very sure that if Star Wars underworld was made characters like Starkiller or Mara Jade would appear in the show
To be honest i personally don't buy this idea of an "original George Lucas vision" about anything, a lot of stuff that he himself used in the prequels came from the expanded universe, and a lot more in The Clone Wars, however, Darth Ruin and his New Sith Empire fulfill this particular idea said by George Lucas, not literally but it's almost impossible to believe he always had an "original vision" about the Sith considering he didn't even had the idea of Leia being Luke's sister before the script of Return of the Jedi.
I agree. Sure a Sith or two could come out and cause mass destruction conquest on occasion, but it is almost more interesting for them to stay mostly in the shadows and puppet people into fighting for them.
The Sith only came about because of the Jedi's departure from the path of balance. Basically, the Order moved from being Centrists to Extremists of the Light Side. This inevitably spawned an extremist Dark Side faction which went on to wage a civil war and flee into the galaxy and become the Sith. Gee, I wonder where we've seen this before?
I’d love to see a movie set in ancient times, where the Sith truly are as majestic, dark and terrifying as Sauron is in The Lord of the Rings. That’s how I envision the Sith before their first fall. Armies of monstrous creatures, an elite force of Nazgul-like knights, and finally two supremely powerful Dark Lords who rule it all.
Yeah Personally I think that some of the retcons he made Ie grievous being weak af and Jango being not a mando were pretty bad but their were still loads of good reforms such as Ventress
“The Oppression of the Sith will *never* return!” “Once more the Sith with *rule* the Galaxy.” I was six when Revenge of the Sith came out and my introduction to the EU happened when I tried researching what Darth Sidious (George Lucas) was referencing. Eventually I found Darth Vitiate as the closest the Sith came to ruling the Galaxy but this video clears a lot up between Lucas and the EU.
@@sirpepeofhousekek6741 He subdued the Republic in a Surprise attack but didn’t take very much R Space after and he was eventually overthrown. Later as Valcorian he successfully subdued Both the Sith Empire and The Republic under his rule before he was overthrown.
I wish George would finally open up and tell us the "true" story of Star Wars as he envisioned it, because Disney certainly isn't doing us any favors anytime soon. I'm curious to see what his version of the Jedi/Sith conflict would look like, and whether or not it could be integrated with some of the more beloved interpretations from the EU. Star Wars is undeniably at its best when both the creator and fans work together.
Grim 'alkun thanks for the data. A few fans are still forming this petition to have his sequel trilogy made so we can all see the true end to his saga. I hope we win.
Hopefully the petition for George’s Sequel Trilogy comes into being. It would have had Luke training Leia during episode 9 and dying too. Kira and Sam/Skyler. The Whills. Luke trying to find a higher realm of the force at an ancient jedi temple which would have probably lead to him learning more about the Whills. It sounds crazy. I would have been hooked!
Yeah, maybe he should sit down and write the extended history and future of the star wars universe for us. Just..... don't go into detail with dialogue other than maybe famous quotes from characters, because George is not good with that sort of thing.
I know this comment is from 3 years ago: George was quoted in this video that there was NO conflict with the Jedi and Sith, at least in his canon. I think the Jedi and the Republic didn’t existed prior to 1,000 B.B.Y of the movies becsuse why would they allow the Sith to rule the galaxy? So no, to George, there was no conflict between them. My guess on what the “revenge” of the Sith was that after the Sith nearly wiped themselves out, the Jedi and the Republic took over, and the Sith want revenge on that as they were the ones to rule the galaxy.
This is a good example of reasons one person shouldn't have complete control over a story. Because IMO the EU old republic is a lot more interesting than what George said. The great hyperspace war, the true sith (with the red skin), the mando war, etc. There's a reason the story of Revan is one of the most beloved stories of all time in Star Wars. I really hope Disney takes notes from the EU Old Republic stories if they ever figure out wtf to do with Star Wars.
Another thing that makes things difficult is that George Lucas says he knows how things happened in his universe but then changes his mind and says something else, while still maintaining that this was the plan all along. (Similar to how he says that Luke and Leia were always siblings, but if you watch the first movie and read Splinter of the mind's eye, it pretty evident that this wasn't the plan all along)
Anyone who hasn’t read the Darth Bane book trilogy seriously needs to! It’s my favorite thing I’ve read/seen out of all of Star Wars Also the audiobooks are on UA-cam >:)
If the collapse of the Sith happened 1000 years ago it would make sense that Yoda could know of some knowledge of the rule of two. Given that he's almost 900 in the movies it would be logical that his master or at least his master's master knew of their disappearance. So they could have done a ton of digging and found rumors that at least two Sith still live. Thus Yoda held very few Jedi in his confidence about this possible threat and why Mace knows about it being the number 2 on the council
George Lucas created Star Wars and created the Sith, and so he has of course every right to make their history whatever he wants. Nevertheless I can't help but feel that partly the reason that he never fully published all of his personal notes on the Jedi, the Sith and the rest of the galaxy Silmarillion-style, was because he didn't want to be tied down. I think he wanted creative freedom to do whatever he wanted in the future, so that nerds on the internet like us wouldn't call him out when he was being inconsistent Edit: Also, though I know he didn't read much of the EU, if he really was totally against something, he could always just say no and that would be the end if it. So I think the EU version, even if it isn't what George actually intended, is something that both he and us can at the least somewhat accept
That wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what actually happened. A comprehensive origin story for the galaxy would be very cool, but you have to respect Lucas' goals for creative freedom.
Since he seems to be done with star wars, I wish he would publish his version of the sequels, and old republic(or even pre republic). He has every right to tell his version of the story, and I think most people would agree that even where he goes against the EU, that story would be the ultimate stat wars canon. Really, if he doesn't, then all those stories will never be told for real. The guy is starting to get old, and I just hope that before he starts having problems with Alzheimers or a similar disorder or dies, he makes sure that his star wars story is heard in full, like Tolkien did with the Silmarillion.
IMO, the best way to understand SW canon is to realize that to George, I-VI is THE story and canon of SW in its truest, fullest sense; I think the real reason he didn't really flesh out the minutia of the universe or more actively pursue his sequel trilogy was because the story was already whole. However, fans loved SW so much that we've essentially created a huge mythos around it, while in George's eyes, that mythos is only ambiance to the actual story: the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Everything else is just backdrop. In that sense, Lucas is the reverse of Tolkien: Tolkien published the Hobbit & the Lord of the Rings basically as in-depth, side stories to the much larger, more important Legendarium. The chief story was what would become the Silmarillion (and the Silmarillion was never truly finalized).
I will never accept the New Canon version of Darth Bane. As far as I'm concerned, Darth Bane is a muscular bald man in robes and with a gruff voice. Not some clockpunk Darth Vader-looking guy.
George Lucas had 40+ years to share his extended universe with the fandom. I would argue that his lack of involvement and control of the EU implies that he left it's development up to his fandom and Lucas film/arts to take the reigns.
I think the thing a lot of fans assume is that the creator's of these big franchises have as much thought up/planned ahead that stay consistent... they might have had something resembling the idea of what became the product that made them famous... but a lot of it's experimentation and collaboration... and sometimes creators change their minds what is what in even their own stories or forget.... the simplest answer is that George Lucas did not have all these ideas in concrete form from the beginning... even his original concepts for the Star Wars lore were very different to what we got in the end.
Stop belittling Lucas's achievements as a world-builder, he's very close to Tolkien in that, he didn't plan out characters, but the world was planned out from the start, he has a bunch of notes on prequels in 1977 and we get introduction to it in ANH novelization, then in 1999 he planned out even more backstory of the respective orders and that's on what Darth Bane books, Tales of the jedi comics and TPM novelization were based, stop making George's visionary less than he is, his hand very much shaped Old Republic even if indirectly
Medalion you do know these were collaborations right so when making these Books The Authors would use a lot of George’s ideas like flavoring and would impose their own to some extent for certain direction.
Obi wan says in episode 4 that the Jedi have been around for a thousand generations. I find it very implausible that it took so long for one of them to fall to the dark side. Maybe there were dark side users even before that. It is almost impossible for me to make KoTOR non-canon
The story of Darth Bane and the sith in the expanded universe is incredible. Banes story alone is so compelling, that he is my favorite Star Wars character!
Legends was sorted into a hierarchy of continuity by Leland Chee, with anything that George not only created himself, but had a direct hand in, elevating the likes of The Force Unleashed and Darth Plagueis to the highest tier of canonicity. That being said, George has been known to change his mind about many things, leaving us and Chee to find ways to rectify everything
After watching Rebels and seeing the ancient Sith temple with all the rule of two references despite being older than Darth Bane I assumed that the Sith had always had apprentices, even when there were legions of Sith. I assumed the titled "Rule of Two" was more a change in doctrine to have a zero tolerance policy for there being MORE than two Sith not the introduction of the Master and Apprentice structure.
The fact of the matter is that for decades people bought these expanded universe products, books, games, comics, etc., with the understanding that it is part of the story. The average consumer doesn’t even know what the word “canon” means, they just got the stuff for themselves or their friend/family interested in the Star Wars brand. And up until 2014 it was all accepted as canon, that doesn’t just go away
V R my question for those imbeciles is are they ready to sacrifice KOTOR? An EU work unanimously loved and considered by some to be even better than the films(including the original trilogy)
Really like this theory! It did always bug me a little bit that Yoda's knowledge of the rule of two didn't really line up the Darth Bane trilogy ( one of my favorites from the eu as well!). Though in writing this comment and just thinking about the books,(and I could be way off it has been long time since I read them)I'm pretty sure Bane says something about the Sith getting weaker because Masters started taking on multiple apprentices to increase their power and influence in a way, and those apprentices then teaming up to kill their master to raise their own standing, but subsequently losing out on knowledge that their master had that wasn't passed down. I think that was also part of the reason they started the academy and fragile alliance to form between most if not all of the remaining sith masters, to try and prevent the loss of any more masters. So maybe it was a bit more of a standard thing, 1 master 1 apprentice, until near the "end of the siths existence " as far as the Jedi were aware, giving Yoda reason to believe that
I will always hold George Lucas in high regard. And take his opinions seriously when it has to do with anything Star Wars. With that said. The Darth Bane Trilogy is a masterpiece that just can’t be ignored. I would say it a level of story telling that is at least as high as Lucas achieved with the first 3 films....if not higher.
I have to agree the bane books are honestly my favorite books I’ve ever read. So much that I made this Darth bane cosplay video m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
George Lucas said Boba and Jango aren’t real mandalorians. Frankly I think him and Filoni need to recognize the eu has very good stories and not trash then Edit: a majority of stories from the eu are better than the canon for Disney
Yeah. Both him and Filoni's Clone Wars show completely shit all over the EU. And a lot of that EU was what inspired stuff in the Prequels and that lame ass Clone wars show of theirs. >.>
MRDLT00 clone wars is great. It does screw up some lore though Edit: ventress conquered and owned a whole planet in the old lore. Not to mention in the show force sensitives are less powerful while in the movies they can do tons of stuff
8:43 Wasn't that explained a few times already? First, in "Bane Trillogy" the Jedi know that Bane survived and escaped Ruusan. In "Path of the Jedi" it is said that the Jedi knew about Bane betraying the Brotherhood of Darkness. Their belief about Sith extinction came from killing Darovit, who they mistook for the last Sith Lord. We could assume that they knew about the Rule of Two, but believed the Sith to be destroyed anyway... but we don't have to assume, since the actual explanation exists. From various sources (most notably "Living Force Campaign Guide", "Darth Plagueis" and "The Book of the Sith") we learn about a fallen Jedi named Kibh Jeen, who told the Jedi about the Rule of Two. Nobody believed him, because everybody was certain that Darovit was the last Sith. Really, out of the inconsistencies between EU and GL's word (or EU and EU) you picked the explained one?
I would really like a TV show on the entire rule of two lineage from Darth Bane to Darth Vader that would be very unique (sorry mister Lucas I love the EU version of Darth Bane better)
He was a true Darth a single being to empower the full power of the dark side. He trained his apprentice to surpass and usurp him so the sith could continue to grow stronger through the ages until Darth Sidious the heir of the Bane line could throw down the Jedi and ascend to his rightful place as ruler of the Galaxy
They approved of its existence, within its own right. But, They didn't consider it necessarily part of George Lucas' canon. That's why it's called, The Expanded Universe. Now, why Disney got it in Their heads to redefine it as, "LEGENDS", is still a head-scratcher. I truly believe it was a business move, so They could avoid copyrights, trademarks, and residuals.
This. Despite some missteps or errors, Lucas set up a round table to make sure the EU followed a lot of his core ideas. I've also heard he had the final say on everything at the beginning but I'm not sure. I do know his "group" had to okay what was being done. If you listen to the way Lucas spoke about the EU, it is VERY clear that he knows/knew far more about it than he let on. I think there are a few interviews where he drops a line about how "well I would never have done this" or "I don't agree with that" as proof the EU isn't his Star Wars and that he doesn't follow it. Yet if he didn't follow it, how did he know these things to point out? For me, Lucas always came across as someone who was happy with the EU as being a loose alt-timeline of his Star Wars. Where things probably happened the same way in his SW but maybe not exactly. But the negative reaction to the Prequels seemed to really sour him on the fans so he started to double-down with the quotes about the EU definitely wasn't anything to do with his SW. So Early Lucas - EU is a could be/maybe canon SW going over things he would never cover. Late Lucas - Throws a fit about the PT reaction and declares EU to be some crap off in the distance. You see this same attitude with JK Rowling actually. She created the Black Family Tree that showed Charlus Potter marrying Dorea Black and having one son late in life. Essentially her backstory to James. So fans all said how C+D MUST be James' parents. It ties James and Sirius closer together and gives a more solid foundation for Sirius to be Harry's godfather. Only JK decided she didn't like the fans having this theory and came out with Fleamony and Euphemia Potter. Essentially carbon-copies of Charlus and Dorea but with NO explanation as to the link between Fleamont and Charlus nor where Charlus' son was after James and LIly's death. Don't get me wrong. An author has the right to be exactly how Lucas and JK are when it comes to EU/fan theories. But it's very telling that Lucas included details from the EU and knew of other things in it when he was constantly saying that he didn't follow the stuff.
Yes he had the final say on everything. Ideas had to be approved by him first. Originally, Jacen was going to die in NJO, but Lucas had them change the death to Anakin Solo because he was worried people would confuse him with Anakin Skywalker
I have no doubt that Yoda and Mace kept a lot of information from the fellow council member as well as each other. Hell, when Yoda, in the clone wars, discovered the secrets of immortality by maintaining conciseness after death through force ghosts and when asked if he discovered anything Yoda was like “maybe👀”
I’ve only started dabbling in the EU in recent years. My first experience was the Thrawn trilogy, now I’m listening to the Bane trilogy and it is excellent. (loving the audiobook option by the way for Star Wars). I for one don’t think you have to love the EU and hate the “new canon” or vice versa. I think we’ve seen ample reason to love elements of both. I don’t think it necessary, or productive for that matter, to feel like you have to “choose a side”. P.S. On the EU thing as a whole, I appreciate what I’ve read so far, and can see why it’s beloved by many, but being that I was never into it heavily before, I was not up in arms as some of my more die hard EU friends were when Disney labeled them “Legends”. I was intrigued at the time to know what George thought of the EU, and after reading his comments on the matter, along with Dave’s, they coincided with the thought that it was non canon. I have also said before, that I never thought Disney, after purchasing the franchise would adopt the entire EU as canon. They have the opportunity to in essence hit the reset button with the franchise and take it in whatever direction they want. Will they use certain elements of the EU? Probably, and I hope they do in the future. Who wouldn’t want to see them do something with Revan or Bane. But I never thought they’d just take that massive library of books and comics and say this is now canon. It makes more sense, and in my opinion, allows them much more freedom to not go that route, especially given that Lucas himself did not seem to deem it canon to begin with.
i have always toke the EU as a separate continuity from the movies; aside from Lucas' firm statements, there were a few to many inconsistencies between them to reconcile. frankly i see no problem, if you really want the two to be the same continuity/universe, that's just too bad, they aren't. i very much enjoy the EU/Legends; many of my favorite stories are from it; in a way, its preferable
The funniest thing about all of this was how the EU developed the Sith from what Lucas thought. An unknowable amount of time ago the Sith separated from the Jedi, hiding away on Korriban. 5,000 years before Episode 4, the Sith and Jedi fought in the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi won and the Sith were divided. A significant amount of the Sith who lost the war moved into the Unknown Regions and started a new Sith Empire. For 2,000 years the Jedi did their thing with the occasional Jedi falling to the Dark Side, until the Sith Empire attacked. For 1,000 years wars were waged by the Sith Empire and the Republic, until the Jedi won, but some idiot Jedi though the Sith were right and started the new line of Sith. The New Sith Wars (I assume the EU's take on Lucas' perspective) raged for another 1,000 years until the Jedi won again, with only Darth Bane remaining. I always find this sequence of events pretty funny - its clearly a farce with multiple millennia of non-stop war. Eat your heart out 40k.
I love his novels and the way they talk about the Sith. It would be a great film trilogy. It informs part of why we think the Disney trilogy has such a basic view of the force, Sith and Jedi
Darth Bane is my favorite character in starwars and the series is my favorite starwars there is and I think that it's fair to put it in its own category like the marvel or dc comics.
I was thinking this just the other day. If Lucas didn’t consider the EU Canon. How come he put Darth Bane in The Clone Wars and him and Dave tried to put Darth Revan and Darth Bane in the clone wars?
If you pause the video at the right time at one of Georges quotes, he says he's never read any of the novels but does have an "encyclopedia" of Star Wars of sorts. He probably looked them up a little bit, even of just the names and appearances, and decided to incorporate them into his story. Or at least until he took them out lol.
I would love to see an adaptation of the Darth Bane trilogy on Hulu (so it could be darker and more violent than Disney+) starring Hafþór Björnsson as Bane
Seeng as Bane is heavily muscled and stands 2 meters, Habfor bjorroson, or Glenn Jacobs would be perfect for the role. Either one could also be a good Darth Malgus.
Thor Skywalker Lucas Continuity A Jedi or a couple Jedi probably became Sith and they each trained an Apprentice who then trained another Apprentice for themselves and they each killed their former Sith Lord Masters and the cycle continued. A cult was formed around this dogma based on their hatred against the Jedi for rejecting them and their lust for power but even with this unity in action The Sith were like two man gangs which would rival each other. Soon after continuous small conflicts with the Jedi, the Sith would begin to rule the universe (probably through influence of most governments or conquering)but their continued mistrust towards each other lead them all killing each off master and apprentice style. (The Jedi not doing anything to stop the Sith during their ruling period is questioning but The Jedi The Guardians of Peace and Justice was apart of a Galactic wide Government called The Republic and did not cover the whole Universe.) Also I’m beginning to think The Sith were too distracted by their lust for power and mistrust of each other to do any true harm to Universe once they got a hold of it and The Jedi most likely knew this. The Ancient Jedi were probably aware of the dangers of the Sith but saw their weakness as their own destruction and left them to finish each other off. Bane most likely was one of the first few Master Sith Lords to exist and didn’t like the idea of a Sith cult and instead wanted the Sith to fight each other and train their own apprentices in pairs alone without uniting like The Jedi which would lead to them killing each other off. Through all of this Bane would go to continue this cycle in a linear fashion as one of the surviving Sith in secret after the reign of the rest of The Sith ended. Honestly I do believe there were a couple holes in this idea , Lucas even as a masterful storyteller as he was did not always fix his continuity or at least explain it properly but for the most part if you form it in a certain way like I did it makes sense. Also the Sith being this unorganized and stupid fits well with Lucas’s ideas behind them as many of them were two busy lusting for power to form an organized empire and like animals compete with each other for power and later make themselves extinct over it. “Always two there are. No more , no less. A master and an apprentice.”
It was in the Darth Bane Trilogy that the Rule of Two was discussed by Darth Revan in a Holocron used by Bane during his time in Korriban. It is possible that the idea came from Revan and only Bane implemented it in seriousness, unlike his contemporaries, who prefer safety in numbers.
Good stuff. This actually mirrors my theory on the history of the Sith. Honestly, I'd love to see the story of the Jedi and Sith origins and their conflict onscreen, with Lucas's involvement. Great opening about the EU by the way.
Sorry, I’ve already made one comment. This is THE BEST video you’ve ever made 😃. This video in my opinion answers my question and explains why Disney felt they could just discard the EU....they had no idea....and that includes Lucas. Oh, and my favorite novel is the Bane Trilogy as well.
I feel that you missed the point that George Lucas was making especially in the quote as seen around the 12:10 time stamp... George Lucas clarifies that there was no direct "Jedi versus Sith war" and instead he explicitly stated that EACH Sith Lord had an apprentice... which essentially shows how they were still former Jedi turned to the dark side and attempted to maintain the "Jedi like" academy of having a "master and an apprentice" Which is a point brought up to QuiGon Jin when he claims he could have ANOTHER padawan apprentice on a whim and gets corrected by Mace Windu by being told "you already have an apprentice" because the Jedi code explicitly forbids the notion of one Jedi Master having more than one apprentice which is the dead give away in the Phantom Menace film because George Lucas was being extremely subtle about how Jedi and Sith behaved in the PT. (Aka he didn't hold people's hands explaining what they were kinda like how certain Marvel comics characters created in the 60s and 70s were still mysterious in origin until the 90s or in the sense that writers can create mysterious concepts that they don't fully explicitly explain but give hints and give aways about) By that logic applied to how the former Jedi turned to the dark side ended up becoming Sith... he adds that as Sith Lords and apprentices grew in power they would have a type of implied frustration (as depicted in EP2 and Ep3) of thinking they were super powerful but their Sith master would still know additional things about the force but kept it to themselves... which does not mix with greed and lust for power because it means you will want that "power" which brings up another point for later. By George Lucas's quote it basically explains why the Sith essentially waged war with each other despite "Ruling the Galaxy!" Because their war was a war waged against other powerful Sith Lords under distrust, deceit, lies, betrayals... the SAME things that Sith Lords use to seduce Jedi to the Dark Side... so even from Yoda and Mace Windu's perspective they know that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have another apprentice for the Jedi (which results in bad teaching/apprentices who easily fall) and for Sith because both apprentices will team up and take power from the master because Midichlorians is not a power level indicator of force power, so naturally Sith Lords and their apprentices would plot with other Sith Lords (who they are planning on setting up) until a few remained and while the Sith ruled the Galaxy, their war with each other is what the remaining Jedi wanted to stop... note this is implied because obviously the Jedi managed to remain and come back. This leads to another point... in the OT the Jedi didn't explicitly tell Luke the truth if the situation... it took a fallen Jedi to say it... In the PT in ANY scene of Phantom Menace where Senator Palpatine was talking to anyone, he wad using Sith abilities to influence them as well as HIDE his true nature from the Jedi which we can see in Darth Maul who has to hide to blend in otherwise he could not hide in front of Jedi council masters like Palpatine did and George Lucas kinda used an old trick of tricking the audience into thinking that somehow Palpatine and that Darth Sidious guy weren't the same but they were the two faces of a coin. The Sith or Palpatine also have no reason to tell the truth... hence when Palpatine tells Anakin that he is perhaps more powerful than Yoda... it's an obvious lie... SAME when he claims to have "unlimited power" because all he did was set up Anakin to betray a Jedi.... which is how Sith work. Sith essentially is an unbalanced aspect of the force because it only leads to chaos and destruction... Later on in the expanded post RotS George Lucas approved Clone Wars we see the foundation of the Inquisitors which do not use the term "Sith" because they are not "Sith Lords" otherwise if they knew as much as Anakin did or were in close proximity to Darth Sidious, eventually they would plot to kill him which again is another point... Since the Jedi knew the Sith were a problem, once they confirmed that Anakin was a Sith, there was no Redemption for him only a Duel to have him killed by the Jedi unless the Sith somehow won due to plot Palpatine or Sidious openly brags about how powerful Anakin Vader is but sends him to "Must be FAR" away from the Jedi so they don't kill him... Sidious also used Cound Dooku aka Darth Tyrannous to trick the Jedi into believing he was just a politicical idealist... but Count Dooku hired Jango Fett who tried to be secretive and used a proxy bounty hunter who used rare hard to identify weapons... it's all there in the PT if you listen to it instead of critique it... Thus Darth Sidious was lying about Anakin Skywalker or Darth Sidious power potential... because he could not use fallen Jedi Dooku and because the Jedi Council still didn't see Dooku as the true Sith Lord apprentice he was because they needed the master to reveal himself or have clues... basically you kill Dooku in Ep2 and by Ep3 Palpatine would still have poisoned another Jedi's mind so much that the conflict would still continue and even then it's not that simple to use Anakin right away but if he did it would expose Anakin to getting targeted by the Jedi to be killed
You don't need to have Yoda know about Darth Bane... who like all Sith Lord's are all liars and steal credit from others... thus the Jedi could (of that time) see that the Sith master and apprentices plotted on others for power... always two... Even two Sith Masters wouldn't work with each other because one would claim to be more powerful than the other, no different from the master/apprentice dynamic which is the sore thumb explained point George Lucas mentioned... "The Sith killed each other" later in AotC Yoda states "lies, deceit are his ways now" so even when Dooku tells Obi Wan "the truth", it's still a lie... he would use Obi-Wan as HIS apprentice and try to kill Sidious regardless of him being Supreme Chancellor just like Vader plotted to recruit Luke... the cycle keeps repeating and George Lucas left it plain in sight... Thus a Jedi or Sith getting married will never work... a "Sith Council" will definitely NEVER work and technically the PT Jedi were somewhat toxic because they were too involved in government
Thanks for this video! From the sound of it you've worked out the best compromise that accurately reflects Lucas's intentions towards the Sith, or the "Lucas version" of the history. I think the contradiction (Yoda and Mace knowing about The Rule of Two) is there because Lucas's ideas were continually evolving, and at least at first he didn't want to explore earlier eras of history, but was mainly just interested in how they shaped the present. I like his idea that the Sith essentially "won" at the beginning of their story and defeated the Jedi and conquered the galaxy, but their own rebellious nature led to the loss of everything they'd gained and their near extinction. It's a neat parallel with the idea that the Sith crave immortality, but are denied it by the nature of The Dark Side. That path always leads to failure, even if the Jedi aren't around. But the failures of the Sith are colossal, with collateral damage that could lead to the destruction of all life in the galaxy if the Jedi aren't there to oppose them. In that sense the Sith are like an all consuming fire. I'd like to speculate for a moment about how Darth Bane's Rule of Two may have originally worked. The modern version requires deception and a substantial power base of "ordinary" soldiers and spaceships to properly take over the galaxy, but it sounds like the original Sith were much more direct in their conquering ways. Maybe the Sith cult was originally more like a multi-level marketing organization: you take on an apprentice, then they take on an apprentice, that apprentice takes on an apprentice, and so on. The result is a long chain of Sith, with each one owing fealty to the one above him, and the Sith at the top controlling everybody. This would provide the organization that allows large numbers of Sith to work together, but would have the disadvantage of very low resilience. Every time a Sith apprentice defeated their master the Sith one link above would have to take them on as an apprentice, or fight it out to determine the new pecking order. Eventually the whole thing crumbled completely and Darth Bane realized they were better off with _just_ two Sith. No more chains of authority that have to be continually reforged. Simplicity is more effective.
What were the dates on those quotes from Lucas? He was heavily involved in the path the novelizations took, starting with the New Jedi Order series; and the final "Legends" novel, Crucible, was specifically set up as a segway into his planned Sequel Trilogy.
Back in the days whenever a sith Lord appeared he'd always have an underling to carry out his will or orders which was common enough for Yoda to know...the Jedi never knew who Bane was or the rule of two
George never had a "master plan" for Star Wars. He just made it all up as he went along, which is why there are so many continuity errors between the movies and trilogies. Too many people put him on a pedestal and claim he's this holy visionary when he's just a man who came up with an (albeit awesome) movie and just kept expanding it when it became popular. That's why you never get any mention of Sith in the OT, why Leia kissed Luke, and Darth Vader being Luke's father wasn't planned until ESB either. Don't get me wrong, George is great but he's not a messiah by any means.
you get Sith mention in deleted scene of OT, stop belittling Lucas's achievements as a world-builder, he's very close to Tolkien in that, he didn't plan out characters, but the world was planned out from the start, he has a bunch of notes on prequels in 1977 and we get introduction to it in ANH novelization, then in 1999 he planned out even more backstory of the respective orders and that's on what Darth Bane books, Tales of the jedi comics and TPM novelization were based, stop making George's visionary less than he is, his hand very much shaped Old Republic even if indirectly
@@goodmind4940 I didn't mention world-building at all, and in fact agree that his world-building is quite strong, particularly in the prequels. I was talking specifically about his character and story decisions in the movies, a lot of which suffer from improvisation and inconsistent drafting issues. Take the book example you brought up. Since you know so much about the novelisation you'd know that it's different to the movie we got. Yes, it refers to Darth Vader as a Sith, but there are countless examples of instances where dialogue is different, characters are different, and actions are different. It even opens with the words "another galaxy, another time," instead of the iconic "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." My point stands that George Lucas wrote most of the story as he went along, and kept making revisions even after the final product was released - changing Han Solo to not shoot first is a prime example of this. If he truly planned everything out, he wouldn't need to keep altering and revising, and there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies in the characters and stories.
Daily reminder that George Lucas is a huge flipflop when it comes to factoids about star wars and tends to enjoy doing storyteller JK Rowling style, which is in interviews rather than in the actual story itself.
*Yawn* another person using the starlog quote out of context. Leland Chee clarified that it doesn't mean it was 'never canon'. "GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."
You didn't mention the frieze in Palpatines office. "As part of Palpatine's art collection, George Lucas requested a frieze depicting an ancient battle between followers of the light and the dark side of the Force, probably conceptually redirecting to the Battle of Ruusan. Erik Tiemens made the original approved artwork, which was then used as a basis for the finished frieze."
I love how different the EU made each iteration of the Sith and their Empires. I could also appreciate a time when the Sith ruled the galaxy uncontested about 2000 years prior to the films, with the Jedi in hiding and a Republic in shambles, only to be be ultimately brought down by in-fighting amongst their ranks once again and then re-emerge almost a thousand years later as the Brotherhood of Darkness.
Much like Darth Revan, Darth Bane is easy one of the most interesting characters to ever existed. Even though he made a 30 second cameo appearance in TCW season 6, Mark Hamill still pulled off his eerie, creepy voice.
@@RogersRoger Most of that is just speculation and bias on Kreia's part. Revan didn't really get a personality and characterization until the novel. Also, the motivation suggested in Kotor 2 is complete BS. Willingly falling to the dark side is just retarded and makes Revan seem stupid and reckless.
@Darth Ranger I agree that he became overrated. Right now he is just a pop-culture star with little substance to him but at the time of Kotor 2 release he was the most intriguing character in the series. He made those events possible, he manipulated an entire Galaxy but still fell victim to the Sith doctrine. But all of that has been lost, regrettably.
I think the version with one sith master and one apprentice is the way they worked, even if there were several masters for a while. Thats also what Yoda refers to, they were attacked by a sith, but they always work two and two. One master and one apprentice. He also knew that masters never worked together with each other
I don't remember where it was published... But there was a Jedi that fell to the dark side about 200 bby (maybe this is part of the upcoming high republic storyline) that learned some of what the rule of two was and before his execution, said that part of it. It was ignored by the Jedi order for the most part till I think.. 40ish bby.. When the dark Lord's made anikin and Yoda and mace and a very few ppl noticed that the dark side was gaining power...
I remember one other version of origin of the Sith. It goes like this: Some Jedi believe power lies in the dark side and leave the order.They travel to a planet inhabited by a species strong in the dark side the sith.The dark jedi subjecate the sith species and start calling themselevs Sith Lords.Sith Lords and the sith species interbreed and a dark side cult is born.They start killing each other for power until Darth Bane realised that if 2 or more apprentices kill one master that would lead to a weaker master and a weaker Sith order.So Darth Bane kills everyone and takes on one apprentice teaches her everything and if she can kill him the Sith would be better off by having stronger and stronger masters.The line of masters and apprentices continued all the way until Sidious and Vader
I love the Bane trilogy, I hope one day if someone competent is managing star wars we might see an animated or live action version of him. I'd also like the legends continuity to continue one day as well, as unlikely as it is it would be nice.
I wholeheartedly agree. All they have to do is follow the books and they got gold. I just did a video about bane feel free to check it out m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
In rebels on Malachor, Maul comments when going up an elevator of the sith temple "Only two no more no less". So it seems that the rule of two, or some early version of it was practiced by the sith before their near extinction. So it is possible that Bane creates the Rule of Two before their near extinction, which was then widely practiced by the Sith even building their architecture based on that concept, they are nearly riped out, whether it be because of the Jedi, from infighting, or a combination of both, then one or two of the surviving Sith continue to practice a stricter version of the rule of two in the shadows leading to Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious, whom don't necessarily have to directly connected to Bane's Apprentice lineage, though they still can be
I'm thinking that Yoda learned this during the High Republic era possibly. He learned of the "Rule of Two" but chose to not believe that the Sith still existed. Or maybe he even kept it to himself to not start something among the Jedis. Or maybe he even told the Council of the era but they didn't believe him.
Very interesting chapter "Memories IV" in the new book, "Thrawn Ascendancy", that may hint at the direction the new canon is headed regarding the Sith.
I always thought that Darth Revan's holocron essentially explained the nature of the Sith rather well. EU, Legends, or not, I always found this to be my headcanon "Sith philosophy": "I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith. Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith. The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transformation. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they accomplish." "True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation. There can be no compromise. Mercy, compassion, loyalty: all these things will prevent you from claiming what is rightfully yours. Those who follow the dark side must cast aside these conceits. Those who do not-those who try to walk the path of moderation-will fail, dragged down by their own weakness. Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each Master must have only one student." "This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be. My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well."
Could also chalk Lucas's version of the rule of two thing up as two different versions. Yoda could've been aware of how the sith used to always co.e in pairs but were numerous. And then bane started the true rule of two which meant that there could only ever be two in total.
Well, here’s my canon: it happened as it did in the Drew K books, and Bane survived the mental battle with his apprentice at the end. Because Bane is awesome, and the ending was left open for a reason (despite what Drew K said years later). I have no problem with Bane creating the rule of two. Someone else could discover that information after the Bane trilogy-we just didn’t see it happen. Oh gosh. Whatever. Blablabla. I liked the Bane trilogy is my point lol.
I thought Bane was hella badass. It made no sense to me that Bane would lose that mental/force/essence battle to a fairly novice (in comparison) force user, like you read the trilogy, you know how powerful that guy was. The reason he created the rule of two was the most decent reason I could have come up with, but that's just me.
The 2 best explanations for me would be Bane rising up out of the chaos to establish this new ideology. The rest of the sith die around him then there is just the 2. They go on like this very effectively for a while before the Jedi believe they actually eliminated the last 2. But maybe the apprentice had an apprentice they didn't know about who knew some of the sith ways but obviously not all. So he/she started hiding in shadows, studying the dark side to become as powerful as they once were, which is why it takes a thousand years. Seems a little cleaner to me. The second is Yoda has had an encounter of some kind during his long life and either didnt fully believe what he saw or was not believed when he brought it up.
Honestly, as an ignorant fan, when I first watched the movie I interpreted Yoda’s sentence as: they always go in couples (meaning there’s many masters with one, no more, apprentice each), not that there can only exist two at any given time.
George has never been consistent in his interviews about SW lore. I have a great respect for the man; I wrote to him as a child and still have his two letters in response, but he should've taken notes or something after public events because he contradicted himself so often he probably could've been a politician.
It would be very coincidental if the Jedi that was studying the dark and the light side was rejected to the rank of Master by somebody like Windu did to Anakin was but years ago. As George Lucas says it's poetry supposed to rhyme.
This kind of makes me think that the Rule of Two was meant to encourage or enforce Sith Lords to take on an apprentice in order to avoid dying out in their pursuit of power, so they'd have to 'share' and make new Sith rather than greedily keeping everything to themselves and taking all their knowledge with them when they die. Basically adhering to the padawan-master system.
They made a tiered canon to be able to sell the EU as canon. So I frankly don't care what Lucas' personal thought on this was, he/his company sold them as canon (pics of book covers free to find for anyone on the internet).
There is the Sith planet where a ship was marooned and started a civilization. Then Ben Skywalker and was found by "Ship", an intelligent Sith vassal which eventually adopts Vestara Khai as a "Lady Sith".
I personally think that Lucas kept the history of the Jedi and the Sith deliberately vague so that the audience can feed their own imaginations with how both groups started out. One thing I have always remembered that Lucas said regarding the origin of the Sith was in the 'Fights' documentary on the Episode I DVD bonus disc. His exact words were: "The Sith Knights were started by a fallen Jedi Knight who was tempted by the Dark Side. But the secret was that they were patient, they trained, they studied but they didn't make their presence known to anybody until we get to Episode I where they finally make their move to try to take over the universe" This quote makes no mention of when this Jedi fell to the dark side and there's no mention of Darth Bane. My interpretation based on what the six films, the Clone Wars and what Lucas has said is this: The Sith started by that aforementioned Jedi who fell to the Dark Side. They did fight the Jedi for many years but, as Bane said in the Clone Wars, they destroyed themselves because of their own greed. Bane was the last survivor and chose to pass on his knowledge to one apprentice. Bane was then killed by the Jedi but that one student went into hiding and the cycle continued for 1000 years until we got to Sidious and Maul. That's at least what I think.
I think that over the centuries, a Sith Assassin or Apprentice like Ventress or Maul has cropped up from time to time and attempted to take everything themselves. They were stopped by the Jedi but talked enough about how their system worked for them to get an outline. And a group that ignores the Nightsisters, Hutts, or Zygerryans is going to ignore or get tired of looking for one or two guys. The Jedi order of the Prequel era seems to be overconfident in the idea that the Sith would basically just jump back into their old trenches. Mobilize an army and march on the Senate again. So the Jedi and Republic work to make it harder for them to create a huge army. So the Sith said "fine". And hid out as bankers and industrialists for centuries.
The question I have, in 2020, is: What does he think of (the upcoming) STAR WARS: The High Republic era, and how does it gel with his long-standing "notes" for The Star Wars Universe? Better yet, were George Lucas and Dave Filoni even consulted during the initial conception (in 2014), brainstorming (in 2018), and actualization (coming in 2021) of this "new" time in the history of The Jedi, The Galactic Republic, and the galaxy? P.S. My hope is that within this SW: The High Republic book and comic series, Yoda discovers a lost, hidden Holocron, that was created by Darth Bane, revealing The Rule of Two, which is how he knows of that secret code, AND, how he recognizes the dark spirit or illusion of Darth Bane, in The Clone Wars.
The Jedi had Sith Holocrons, I believe that was established in the Clone Wars. The Jedi could have found the remains of an apprentice of Bane who was too weak to best him as well as that apprentice’s apprentice. They could have had a Sith holocron that could have told the Jedi that the Sith followed the rule of two. Upon finding that information and two bodies they could have assumed the Sith were extinct since the rest would probably be well hidden enough.
Yoda could have learned of the rule of 2 from any number of the sith artifacts kept in the secret chamber of the jedi temple. Holocrons being the main repositories of knowledge for both the sith and jedi.
I love George, I really do but he often contradicts himself in interviews so it can be hard to get a handle on which way is up or down. We know during the writing and filming of the OT that a lot of things changed frequently and sometimes dramatically so I think things that haven't been told as movies or TV episodes by George are in a constant state of flux and where he was at at that particular point in time with pondering on them. George did take stuff he liked from the EU and put into the PT & some of the quotes I've read from authors of EU books they really felt there were certainly canon. There's the much talked about lists that the EU authors would send to get a yes or no approval from George about ideas for the EU. This is where I like the tiered canon approach. Considering we've got 40 odd years of Star Wars lore in lots of different formats from lots of different creatives there's going to be some inconsistencies in things.
In canon the Jedi had a Sith Helmet that could talk. So I mean there's no reason the Grand Master of the Jedi Order at least talked to it once. But I'm sure the High Republic will change everything.
There was a hierarchy to the canon, which is why George didn't really focus on the EU too much but at the same time he had to have the final say on matters concerning it. Think of the movies as the top of the pyramid and everything else subservient but at the same time essential to building up the Star Wars universe. The EU is necessary in building up the movies and expanding on them. There will be things that won't make sense or that are no longer essential over time and so it is debated if they need to be discarded. This goes for things that George was personally involved in or that he had spoken about, which makes it all the more confusing. Evidently, it comes down to what is published and what is made. People can say a lot of things, but if money isn't put where their mouth is then it's just words even if those words come from the creator of one of the biggest franchises out there.
While I'm a big EU fan, I still recognize Lucas's authority when it comes to HIS saga. If he says there were no Old Republic wars in his vision, I'll probably be cursing for days but will eventually accept his version. We still have our stories after all. The huge part of the dislike for the newest content is that it's not made by the creator but rather by a committee with a singular goal in their minds.
Nah. I'd never accept his version as the ONLY one. I'm for the idea of multiple timelines, but just happen to believe that only the most interesting (i.e. well-written) timelines should be given focus and publicity. I like the EU because its a universe/timeline created by committee, and its actually good despite that.
I feel like maybe I should point out that my favorite Expanded Universe books were probably The Bane Trilogy (or The Plagueis Novel) and that, again, I have nothing but love for the EU... But that George Lucas had a very different vision for many things. And all I'm doing in this video, is speculating about what that vision was. So please, fellow diehard EU fans, try to enjoy it for what it is.
Do u think that Disney ruined Star Wars or no, personally no but in a few ways maybe
@Thor Skywalker well said.
The EU was great. If papa Lucas wants to change something it is acceptable. I remember being a little annoyed about seeing the Death Star blue prints in the PT... because the EU story was really good. But I accepted it.
Now it is hard to swallow Disney's changes.. mostly because they killed the Buffalo and then ran around wearing the skin and letting the rest to Rot.
Well, I enjoy your content, I just don't enjoy this version of events, so complaining about it can come off as a personally directed grievance when really, it isn't.
With a franchise as big as Star Wars and a fandom as diverse as the Star Wars fandom, people will disagree on anything, that's just how it is.
You have people who love entire trilogies and those who hate entire trilogies, or those who hate an entire show or love an entire show, it's always a mixed bag.
But it's all "from a certain point of view"
i like all the disney films other than tlj but EU is much better and more interesting than new canon
Darth Bane: I was born in the darkness, molded by it, no one cared who I was till I put on the mask.
Darth Revan: Ok...I think you’ve had enough death sticks for today dude.
FazBroGaming 777 it’s Revan, but you’re still funny
James Thank you! Also I hate typos. 😅
I never said that.
There is Disney canon, the old EU, George Lucas canon and everyone’s headcanon. Everyone has his own SW timeline
You've forgotten the Filoni's canon.
It's not called "Disney canon" it's called "New Canon." Disney didn't create the new canon timeline nor did they shelf the EU, LSG did.
It’s like the Bible
And this is one more reason y it sux , no good story is shitty enough to leave people decide what is real, only old IPs owned by creatively bankrupt Corp has that particularity . The core structure of what made it good and consistent is eroded at every reboot. The hell with logic i want a cybernetic Luke...
@@TSO01 yep he changed the personalities of the jedi we see in the clone wars cartoon they arent really like their EU counter parts at all.
Expanded Universe > Disney Canon. I didn’t read it for 15 years to ignore it in favor of Disney’s trash.
Amen to that.
Grew up with the EU, and I’ll pass it on to the next generation.
Because as crazy as they could get, the majority of the EU comics, novels and games brought us great stories and memorable characters that deserve to be remembered while Di$ney is forgotten.
The Disney canon is what caused me to discover the EU when I went looking for better stories
AndreNitro X1000 Happy hunting
@@christianfarren1179 theres still so much i havent read from the Eu. I am content
@West Bradley-Taubner no to mention they keep stealing fan content too, eckarts ladder revealed this.
I think George has always played loose with his overall story on universal scales. The movies were always his babies, and he focused primarily on their continuity, but he has always indicated that he intended others continue the stories. That, combined with his affinity for fan films tells me the EU, although not his personal canon, was still the way he intended it. That being his intention to let others tell the stories.
George seemed to have no problem with other continuities existing with fans and other creators as long as he could continue his own. Thanks to Disney now we have to fight to turn things back to their natural order.
I don't have a problem with the "Lucas Purists" hating the Legends EU because George wasn't 100% in control. A lot of ideas were ran by him and he approved some and vetoed others. He did at least have some say in the EU. These people are rare and from my experience most tend to have their head stuck so far up their ass that they won't listen to any other arguments. (no offense Thor) They just ignore that Lucas changed his mind so many times that there are tons of contradictions in what he's said. The kind of people that you can just brush off with a "Whatever man" and just ignore because there is no point even talking to them.
However, it's the Disney canon fanboys that say Legends is shit because it wasn't George's vision that really urk me. These idiots conveniently forgot that besides for season seven of the Clone Wars, we haven't gotten anything Lucas-approved since he sold out to Disney. Disney even shot down George's outline for the sequels. Yet these fools continue to argue that Legends was bad because it was never "true canon" even though Lucas had 1000x more involvement with Legends than he has or ever will have with Disney canon. And there is a bunch of these asshats on the internet that I interact with on a regular basis and they legit anger me.
Legends wasn't shit because it wasn't Lucas's vision. That just makes it licensed fanfiction, and that's fine. No. Legends was shit because 90% of it was written by Z-lister hacks, like Karen Traviss, who even after decades in the industry has never produced anything original (ie something not based on a big name franchise).
As for George changing his mind all the time: a very smart and wise man once said that tales grow in the telling. This man has left behind a vast work of hundreds of stories set in the same universe, and a lot of them contradict eachother, because he was constantly bouncing ideas, refining plots and characters, learning new information and building them into the mythos he was creating by himself.
If you hadn't figured it out yet, this man was Prof. Tolkien.
So yeah, what if George changed his mind on a lot of stuff regarding Star Wars? He created it. He came-up with it. It's the product of his intellect. And since the human intellect is not stagnant, neither are it's products unbending, set in stone. Artists, true artists are extremely maximalist people. They are never satisfied with their work, they always seek to improve it.
So don't compare Lucas, the original creator of Star Wars changing his mind, to the fanfiction garbage the leeches hanging off of it came-up with. And that goes for both Legends and Disney.
i believe in some point EU become part of Lucas Canon Quinlan Vos name was mentioned in Revange of the Sith in 2005, and i am very sure that if Star Wars underworld was made characters like Starkiller or Mara Jade would appear in the show
To be honest i personally don't buy this idea of an "original George Lucas vision" about anything, a lot of stuff that he himself used in the prequels came from the expanded universe, and a lot more in The Clone Wars, however, Darth Ruin and his New Sith Empire fulfill this particular idea said by George Lucas, not literally but it's almost impossible to believe he always had an "original vision" about the Sith considering he didn't even had the idea of Leia being Luke's sister before the script of Return of the Jedi.
I've always liked to think the war between Jedi and Sith was more cold war than open warfare.
Not to malgus that Guy would fit as the perfect Crazy sith with big balls on the Galaxy
I agree. Sure a Sith or two could come out and cause mass destruction conquest on occasion, but it is almost more interesting for them to stay mostly in the shadows and puppet people into fighting for them.
@@joshuamueller3206 I'd say, split the difference: Sometimes, there were all-out wars; other times, it was Dark Side manipulation and intrigue.
The Sith only came about because of the Jedi's departure from the path of balance. Basically, the Order moved from being Centrists to Extremists of the Light Side. This inevitably spawned an extremist Dark Side faction which went on to wage a civil war and flee into the galaxy and become the Sith.
Gee, I wonder where we've seen this before?
I’d love to see a movie set in ancient times, where the Sith truly are as majestic, dark and terrifying as Sauron is in The Lord of the Rings. That’s how I envision the Sith before their first fall. Armies of monstrous creatures, an elite force of Nazgul-like knights, and finally two supremely powerful Dark Lords who rule it all.
What I like about George is he let different people do there own SW while he told his SW.
To be honest I don’t really care what George says about the Eu Its not like what he says changes how cool the old eu was and is.
Yeah Personally I think that some of the retcons he made Ie grievous being weak af and Jango being not a mando were pretty bad but their were still loads of good reforms such as Ventress
I kinda fit the two Ventresses together because there’s a fair bit of overlap in the different backstories
“The Oppression of the Sith will *never* return!”
“Once more the Sith with *rule* the Galaxy.”
I was six when Revenge of the Sith came out and my introduction to the EU happened when I tried researching what Darth Sidious (George Lucas) was referencing.
Eventually I found Darth Vitiate as the closest the Sith came to ruling the Galaxy but this video clears a lot up between Lucas and the EU.
I don't wanna be that guy but it's " the oppression of the Sith will never return". And yh vitiate and his empire conquered half the galaxy.
Vitiate never ruled the entire galaxy like Sidious did, and I don't really think George Lucas considers Vitiate canon.
@@TY-km8hj
Shit you right😂👌
@@sirpepeofhousekek6741
He subdued the Republic in a Surprise attack but didn’t take very much R Space after and he was eventually overthrown.
Later as Valcorian he successfully subdued Both the Sith Empire and The Republic under his rule before he was overthrown.
I wish George would finally open up and tell us the "true" story of Star Wars as he envisioned it, because Disney certainly isn't doing us any favors anytime soon. I'm curious to see what his version of the Jedi/Sith conflict would look like, and whether or not it could be integrated with some of the more beloved interpretations from the EU. Star Wars is undeniably at its best when both the creator and fans work together.
Grim 'alkun thanks for the data. A few fans are still forming this petition to have his sequel trilogy made so we can all see the true end to his saga. I hope we win.
Hopefully the petition for George’s Sequel Trilogy comes into being. It would have had Luke training Leia during episode 9 and dying too. Kira and Sam/Skyler. The Whills. Luke trying to find a higher realm of the force at an ancient jedi temple which would have probably lead to him learning more about the Whills. It sounds crazy. I would have been hooked!
Yeah, maybe he should sit down and write the extended history and future of the star wars universe for us.
Just..... don't go into detail with dialogue other than maybe famous quotes from characters, because George is not good with that sort of thing.
I know this comment is from 3 years ago:
George was quoted in this video that there was NO conflict with the Jedi and Sith, at least in his canon.
I think the Jedi and the Republic didn’t existed prior to 1,000 B.B.Y of the movies becsuse why would they allow the Sith to rule the galaxy?
So no, to George, there was no conflict between them.
My guess on what the “revenge” of the Sith was that after the Sith nearly wiped themselves out, the Jedi and the Republic took over, and the Sith want revenge on that as they were the ones to rule the galaxy.
@@azimuddin1890 The Sith want revenge on the Jedi for something that the Sith actually did to themselves? That fits the bill.
This is a good example of reasons one person shouldn't have complete control over a story. Because IMO the EU old republic is a lot more interesting than what George said. The great hyperspace war, the true sith (with the red skin), the mando war, etc. There's a reason the story of Revan is one of the most beloved stories of all time in Star Wars. I really hope Disney takes notes from the EU Old Republic stories if they ever figure out wtf to do with Star Wars.
mando wars were mentioned in TCW, so maybe he was walking that back
>if they ever figure out wtf to do with Star Wars.
They won't
@@goodmind4940 lol
What do you mean? George still let them develop all the stories set in that era of Galactic History.
Another thing that makes things difficult is that George Lucas says he knows how things happened in his universe but then changes his mind and says something else, while still maintaining that this was the plan all along. (Similar to how he says that Luke and Leia were always siblings, but if you watch the first movie and read Splinter of the mind's eye, it pretty evident that this wasn't the plan all along)
Yeah, there are a number of 'apparent' contradictions in the films, which were resolved in the old EU.
Just hope disney stays away from Bane & his story. His story is perfect as is.
If they do tamper with him, it’d be the beginning of the end for Di$ney SW
West Bradley-Taubner lol good luck with *that*
Gotta agree. Bane is a monumental character and my favorite. I even did a cosplay video of him
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
AndreNitro X1000 Awesome work!
The orbalisk armor is quite the challenge, but you pulled it off and I applaud the effort.
@@christianfarren1179 if they could tamper with Luke and OT trio and still not end then some random Sith from EU wouldn't end them either
Anyone who hasn’t read the Darth Bane book trilogy seriously needs to! It’s my favorite thing I’ve read/seen out of all of Star Wars
Also the audiobooks are on UA-cam >:)
I agree 100% I am such a Darth bane I did a cosplay video of him
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
If the collapse of the Sith happened 1000 years ago it would make sense that Yoda could know of some knowledge of the rule of two. Given that he's almost 900 in the movies it would be logical that his master or at least his master's master knew of their disappearance. So they could have done a ton of digging and found rumors that at least two Sith still live. Thus Yoda held very few Jedi in his confidence about this possible threat and why Mace knows about it being the number 2 on the council
In the Bane story a group of Jedi found out about him and zannah and chased them surely the Jedi knew about the rule of two because of this
@@AndreNitroX I know the Bane trilogy back and forth, so I know about that. I'm saying in canon we don't know how he knows.
@@haladmirknowsbest sorry, i keep forgetting that disney deleted this awesome story.
@@AndreNitroX yep and it's really sad that they couldn't just leave the Old Republic stuff alone
@@haladmirknowsbest just sad
We need a live action series for Darth Bane. The novels are fantastic.
Dave Bautista is who I imagine him as
I'd like to see it in an anime/Castlevania style
But do you really expect Disney to get it anywhere near right? XD
@@MRDLT00 no way
@Will DeMarco Probably too expensive.
George Lucas created Star Wars and created the Sith, and so he has of course every right to make their history whatever he wants. Nevertheless I can't help but feel that partly the reason that he never fully published all of his personal notes on the Jedi, the Sith and the rest of the galaxy Silmarillion-style, was because he didn't want to be tied down. I think he wanted creative freedom to do whatever he wanted in the future, so that nerds on the internet like us wouldn't call him out when he was being inconsistent
Edit: Also, though I know he didn't read much of the EU, if he really was totally against something, he could always just say no and that would be the end if it. So I think the EU version, even if it isn't what George actually intended, is something that both he and us can at the least somewhat accept
Well said
That wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what actually happened. A comprehensive origin story for the galaxy would be very cool, but you have to respect Lucas' goals for creative freedom.
Since he seems to be done with star wars, I wish he would publish his version of the sequels, and old republic(or even pre republic). He has every right to tell his version of the story, and I think most people would agree that even where he goes against the EU, that story would be the ultimate stat wars canon.
Really, if he doesn't, then all those stories will never be told for real. The guy is starting to get old, and I just hope that before he starts having problems with Alzheimers or a similar disorder or dies, he makes sure that his star wars story is heard in full, like Tolkien did with the Silmarillion.
IMO, the best way to understand SW canon is to realize that to George, I-VI is THE story and canon of SW in its truest, fullest sense; I think the real reason he didn't really flesh out the minutia of the universe or more actively pursue his sequel trilogy was because the story was already whole. However, fans loved SW so much that we've essentially created a huge mythos around it, while in George's eyes, that mythos is only ambiance to the actual story: the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Everything else is just backdrop.
In that sense, Lucas is the reverse of Tolkien: Tolkien published the Hobbit & the Lord of the Rings basically as in-depth, side stories to the much larger, more important Legendarium. The chief story was what would become the Silmarillion (and the Silmarillion was never truly finalized).
I will never accept the New Canon version of Darth Bane. As far as I'm concerned, Darth Bane is a muscular bald man in robes and with a gruff voice. Not some clockpunk Darth Vader-looking guy.
Maybe canon Bane wore that armour during the orbalisk incident or some other event. Or it could just be a vessel for his spirit during that scenario.
I always thought that his TCW apperance is based off his looks in full armor, with the special helmet and gloves that stopped the Orbalisks
Here’s a cosplay of bane m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
George Lucas had 40+ years to share his extended universe with the fandom. I would argue that his lack of involvement and control of the EU implies that he left it's development up to his fandom and Lucas film/arts to take the reigns.
I think the thing a lot of fans assume is that the creator's of these big franchises have as much thought up/planned ahead that stay consistent... they might have had something resembling the idea of what became the product that made them famous... but a lot of it's experimentation and collaboration... and sometimes creators change their minds what is what in even their own stories or forget.... the simplest answer is that George Lucas did not have all these ideas in concrete form from the beginning... even his original concepts for the Star Wars lore were very different to what we got in the end.
Stop belittling Lucas's achievements as a world-builder, he's very close to Tolkien in that, he didn't plan out characters, but the world was planned out from the start, he has a bunch of notes on prequels in 1977 and we get introduction to it in ANH novelization, then in 1999 he planned out even more backstory of the respective orders and that's on what Darth Bane books, Tales of the jedi comics and TPM novelization were based, stop making George's visionary less than he is, his hand very much shaped Old Republic even if indirectly
Medalion you do know these were collaborations right so when making these Books The Authors would use a lot of George’s ideas like flavoring and would impose their own to some extent for certain direction.
Obi wan says in episode 4 that the Jedi have been around for a thousand generations. I find it very implausible that it took so long for one of them to fall to the dark side.
Maybe there were dark side users even before that. It is almost impossible for me to make KoTOR non-canon
The story of Darth Bane and the sith in the expanded universe is incredible. Banes story alone is so compelling, that he is my favorite Star Wars character!
Legends was sorted into a hierarchy of continuity by Leland Chee, with anything that George not only created himself, but had a direct hand in, elevating the likes of The Force Unleashed and Darth Plagueis to the highest tier of canonicity. That being said, George has been known to change his mind about many things, leaving us and Chee to find ways to rectify everything
After watching Rebels and seeing the ancient Sith temple with all the rule of two references despite being older than Darth Bane I assumed that the Sith had always had apprentices, even when there were legions of Sith. I assumed the titled "Rule of Two" was more a change in doctrine to have a zero tolerance policy for there being MORE than two Sith not the introduction of the Master and Apprentice structure.
He created Darth Ruin (not name or story) but fact that he was first sith and used to be a jedi, and turned other jedi along with him.
The fact of the matter is that for decades people bought these expanded universe products, books, games, comics, etc., with the understanding that it is part of the story. The average consumer doesn’t even know what the word “canon” means, they just got the stuff for themselves or their friend/family interested in the Star Wars brand. And up until 2014 it was all accepted as canon, that doesn’t just go away
And then after 2014, people started saying the EU was non-canon or George didn't consider it canon.
V R my question for those imbeciles is are they ready to sacrifice KOTOR? An EU work unanimously loved and considered by some to be even better than the films(including the original trilogy)
Really like this theory! It did always bug me a little bit that Yoda's knowledge of the rule of two didn't really line up the Darth Bane trilogy ( one of my favorites from the eu as well!). Though in writing this comment and just thinking about the books,(and I could be way off it has been long time since I read them)I'm pretty sure Bane says something about the Sith getting weaker because Masters started taking on multiple apprentices to increase their power and influence in a way, and those apprentices then teaming up to kill their master to raise their own standing, but subsequently losing out on knowledge that their master had that wasn't passed down. I think that was also part of the reason they started the academy and fragile alliance to form between most if not all of the remaining sith masters, to try and prevent the loss of any more masters. So maybe it was a bit more of a standard thing, 1 master 1 apprentice, until near the "end of the siths existence " as far as the Jedi were aware, giving Yoda reason to believe that
I will always hold George Lucas in high regard. And take his opinions seriously when it has to do with anything Star Wars.
With that said. The Darth Bane Trilogy is a masterpiece that just can’t be ignored. I would say it a level of story telling that is at least as high as Lucas achieved with the first 3 films....if not higher.
I have to agree the bane books are honestly my favorite books I’ve ever read. So much that I made this Darth bane cosplay video
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
George Lucas said Boba and Jango aren’t real mandalorians. Frankly I think him and Filoni need to recognize the eu has very good stories and not trash then
Edit: a majority of stories from the eu are better than the canon for Disney
Yeah. Both him and Filoni's Clone Wars show completely shit all over the EU. And a lot of that EU was what inspired stuff in the Prequels and that lame ass Clone wars show of theirs. >.>
MRDLT00 clone wars was lame? Getfo
MRDLT00 clone wars is great. It does screw up some lore though
Edit: ventress conquered and owned a whole planet in the old lore. Not to mention in the show force sensitives are less powerful while in the movies they can do tons of stuff
@Carlo Di Giovanni The trash CGI show is lame ass. The original, 2D Clone Wars was amazing.
Tbh both canon and EU should be respected in their regards
8:43
Wasn't that explained a few times already?
First, in "Bane Trillogy" the Jedi know that Bane survived and escaped Ruusan. In "Path of the Jedi" it is said that the Jedi knew about Bane betraying the Brotherhood of Darkness. Their belief about Sith extinction came from killing Darovit, who they mistook for the last Sith Lord. We could assume that they knew about the Rule of Two, but believed the Sith to be destroyed anyway...
but we don't have to assume, since the actual explanation exists. From various sources (most notably "Living Force Campaign Guide", "Darth Plagueis" and "The Book of the Sith") we learn about a fallen Jedi named Kibh Jeen, who told the Jedi about the Rule of Two. Nobody believed him, because everybody was certain that Darovit was the last Sith.
Really, out of the inconsistencies between EU and GL's word (or EU and EU) you picked the explained one?
My time was at 6:43
But yeah, that deeply irritated me. I stopped and dropped to the comments. Thank you.
I would really like a TV show on the entire rule of two lineage from Darth Bane to Darth Vader that would be very unique (sorry mister Lucas I love the EU version of Darth Bane better)
I’ve been saying this for a while it would be amazing to see and could be a little darker for the older generation
I have to agree a show would be incredible and EU Bane is just incredible.
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
Darth Bane by Drew Karpyshyn is my favorite Sith Lord.
He was a true Darth a single being to empower the full power of the dark side. He trained his apprentice to surpass and usurp him so the sith could continue to grow stronger through the ages until Darth Sidious the heir of the Bane line could throw down the Jedi and ascend to his rightful place as ruler of the Galaxy
@@wisdommanari6701 Agreed!
Likewise so much I did a cosplay video of him
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
@@AndreNitroX Rad! I did a Darth Bane cosplay too! It was at Celebration 2017 instagram.com/p/Bqe66UKndoq/?igshid=1x5je3mphhbpz
His company had to approve anything published, therefore canon.
They approved of its existence, within its own right. But, They didn't consider it necessarily part of George Lucas' canon. That's why it's called, The Expanded Universe. Now, why Disney got it in Their heads to redefine it as, "LEGENDS", is still a head-scratcher. I truly believe it was a business move, so They could avoid copyrights, trademarks, and residuals.
This. Despite some missteps or errors, Lucas set up a round table to make sure the EU followed a lot of his core ideas. I've also heard he had the final say on everything at the beginning but I'm not sure. I do know his "group" had to okay what was being done. If you listen to the way Lucas spoke about the EU, it is VERY clear that he knows/knew far more about it than he let on. I think there are a few interviews where he drops a line about how "well I would never have done this" or "I don't agree with that" as proof the EU isn't his Star Wars and that he doesn't follow it. Yet if he didn't follow it, how did he know these things to point out?
For me, Lucas always came across as someone who was happy with the EU as being a loose alt-timeline of his Star Wars. Where things probably happened the same way in his SW but maybe not exactly. But the negative reaction to the Prequels seemed to really sour him on the fans so he started to double-down with the quotes about the EU definitely wasn't anything to do with his SW.
So Early Lucas - EU is a could be/maybe canon SW going over things he would never cover.
Late Lucas - Throws a fit about the PT reaction and declares EU to be some crap off in the distance.
You see this same attitude with JK Rowling actually. She created the Black Family Tree that showed Charlus Potter marrying Dorea Black and having one son late in life. Essentially her backstory to James. So fans all said how C+D MUST be James' parents. It ties James and Sirius closer together and gives a more solid foundation for Sirius to be Harry's godfather.
Only JK decided she didn't like the fans having this theory and came out with Fleamony and Euphemia Potter. Essentially carbon-copies of Charlus and Dorea but with NO explanation as to the link between Fleamont and Charlus nor where Charlus' son was after James and LIly's death.
Don't get me wrong. An author has the right to be exactly how Lucas and JK are when it comes to EU/fan theories. But it's very telling that Lucas included details from the EU and knew of other things in it when he was constantly saying that he didn't follow the stuff.
Yes he had the final say on everything. Ideas had to be approved by him first. Originally, Jacen was going to die in NJO, but Lucas had them change the death to Anakin Solo because he was worried people would confuse him with Anakin Skywalker
I have no doubt that Yoda and Mace kept a lot of information from the fellow council member as well as each other. Hell, when Yoda, in the clone wars, discovered the secrets of immortality by maintaining conciseness after death through force ghosts and when asked if he discovered anything Yoda was like “maybe👀”
I’ve only started dabbling in the EU in recent years. My first experience was the Thrawn trilogy, now I’m listening to the Bane trilogy and it is excellent. (loving the audiobook option by the way for Star Wars). I for one don’t think you have to love the EU and hate the “new canon” or vice versa. I think we’ve seen ample reason to love elements of both. I don’t think it necessary, or productive for that matter, to feel like you have to “choose a side”.
P.S. On the EU thing as a whole, I appreciate what I’ve read so far, and can see why it’s beloved by many, but being that I was never into it heavily before, I was not up in arms as some of my more die hard EU friends were when Disney labeled them “Legends”. I was intrigued at the time to know what George thought of the EU, and after reading his comments on the matter, along with Dave’s, they coincided with the thought that it was non canon. I have also said before, that I never thought Disney, after purchasing the franchise would adopt the entire EU as canon. They have the opportunity to in essence hit the reset button with the franchise and take it in whatever direction they want. Will they use certain elements of the EU? Probably, and I hope they do in the future. Who wouldn’t want to see them do something with Revan or Bane. But I never thought they’d just take that massive library of books and comics and say this is now canon. It makes more sense, and in my opinion, allows them much more freedom to not go that route, especially given that Lucas himself did not seem to deem it canon to begin with.
The bane trilogy is incredible so much I cosplayed as him in this video
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
i have always toke the EU as a separate continuity from the movies; aside from Lucas' firm statements, there were a few to many inconsistencies between them to reconcile. frankly i see no problem, if you really want the two to be the same continuity/universe, that's just too bad, they aren't. i very much enjoy the EU/Legends; many of my favorite stories are from it; in a way, its preferable
Yes! Thank you Thor I’ve been wanting a Darth Bane video from you for like forever!
The funniest thing about all of this was how the EU developed the Sith from what Lucas thought.
An unknowable amount of time ago the Sith separated from the Jedi, hiding away on Korriban. 5,000 years before Episode 4, the Sith and Jedi fought in the Great Hyperspace War, the Jedi won and the Sith were divided. A significant amount of the Sith who lost the war moved into the Unknown Regions and started a new Sith Empire. For 2,000 years the Jedi did their thing with the occasional Jedi falling to the Dark Side, until the Sith Empire attacked. For 1,000 years wars were waged by the Sith Empire and the Republic, until the Jedi won, but some idiot Jedi though the Sith were right and started the new line of Sith. The New Sith Wars (I assume the EU's take on Lucas' perspective) raged for another 1,000 years until the Jedi won again, with only Darth Bane remaining.
I always find this sequence of events pretty funny - its clearly a farce with multiple millennia of non-stop war. Eat your heart out 40k.
I love his novels and the way they talk about the Sith. It would be a great film trilogy. It informs part of why we think the Disney trilogy has such a basic view of the force, Sith and Jedi
Darth Bane is my favorite character in starwars and the series is my favorite starwars there is and I think that it's fair to put it in its own category like the marvel or dc comics.
Darth Bane is my absolute favorite Star Wars character too. So much I made this cosplay video
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
@@AndreNitroX bruh this was TOO good. The orbalisk mask and everything 🔥🔥🔥
@@greypanth3r Thanks for the compliment, its been a dream cosplay for quite sometime
I was thinking this just the other day. If Lucas didn’t consider the EU Canon. How come he put Darth Bane in The Clone Wars and him and Dave tried to put Darth Revan and Darth Bane in the clone wars?
because Darth Bane is Lucas' character from 1999, not sure about Revan
Андрей Шурочка
Revan is a original EU character like Thrawn Mara Jade. Starkiller
If you pause the video at the right time at one of Georges quotes, he says he's never read any of the novels but does have an "encyclopedia" of Star Wars of sorts. He probably looked them up a little bit, even of just the names and appearances, and decided to incorporate them into his story. Or at least until he took them out lol.
I would love to see an adaptation of the Darth Bane trilogy on Hulu (so it could be darker and more violent than Disney+) starring Hafþór Björnsson as Bane
Uh Bane is big but I don't know if he's that big
I always he Darth Bane looked a little like Bruce Willis
If only
Seeng as Bane is heavily muscled and stands 2 meters, Habfor bjorroson, or Glenn Jacobs would be perfect for the role.
Either one could also be a good Darth Malgus.
The Darth Bane Trilogy is really awesome though, my favorite star wars books!
Mine as well.
Love these style of videos
Thor Skywalker
Lucas Continuity
A Jedi or a couple Jedi probably became Sith and they each trained an Apprentice who then trained another Apprentice for themselves and they each killed their former Sith Lord Masters and the cycle continued. A cult was formed around this dogma based on their hatred against the Jedi for rejecting them and their lust for power but even with this unity in action The Sith were like two man gangs which would rival each other. Soon after continuous small conflicts with the Jedi, the Sith would begin to rule the universe (probably through influence of most governments or conquering)but their continued mistrust towards each other lead them all killing each off master and apprentice style. (The Jedi not doing anything to stop the Sith during their ruling period is questioning but The Jedi The Guardians of Peace and Justice was apart of a Galactic wide Government called The Republic and did not cover the whole Universe.) Also I’m beginning to think The Sith were too distracted by their lust for power and mistrust of each other to do any true harm to Universe once they got a hold of it and The Jedi most likely knew this. The Ancient Jedi were probably aware of the dangers of the Sith but saw their weakness as their own destruction and left them to finish each other off. Bane most likely was one of the first few Master Sith Lords to exist and didn’t like the idea of a Sith cult and instead wanted the Sith to fight each other and train their own apprentices in pairs alone without uniting like The Jedi which would lead to them killing each other off. Through all of this Bane would go to continue this cycle in a linear fashion as one of the surviving Sith in secret after the reign of the rest of The Sith ended. Honestly I do believe there were a couple holes in this idea , Lucas even as a masterful storyteller as he was did not always fix his continuity or at least explain it properly but for the most part if you form it in a certain way like I did it makes sense. Also the Sith being this unorganized and stupid fits well with Lucas’s ideas behind them as many of them were two busy lusting for power to form an organized empire and like animals compete with each other for power and later make themselves extinct over it.
“Always two there are. No more , no less.
A master and an apprentice.”
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
It was in the Darth Bane Trilogy that the Rule of Two was discussed by Darth Revan in a Holocron used by Bane during his time in Korriban. It is possible that the idea came from Revan and only Bane implemented it in seriousness, unlike his contemporaries, who prefer safety in numbers.
Good stuff. This actually mirrors my theory on the history of the Sith. Honestly, I'd love to see the story of the Jedi and Sith origins and their conflict onscreen, with Lucas's involvement.
Great opening about the EU by the way.
Sorry, I’ve already made one comment. This is THE BEST video you’ve ever made 😃. This video in my opinion answers my question and explains why Disney felt they could just discard the EU....they had no idea....and that includes Lucas. Oh, and my favorite novel is the Bane Trilogy as well.
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
I feel that you missed the point that George Lucas was making especially in the quote as seen around the 12:10 time stamp...
George Lucas clarifies that there was no direct "Jedi versus Sith war" and instead he explicitly stated that EACH Sith Lord had an apprentice... which essentially shows how they were still former Jedi turned to the dark side and attempted to maintain the "Jedi like" academy of having a "master and an apprentice"
Which is a point brought up to QuiGon Jin when he claims he could have ANOTHER padawan apprentice on a whim and gets corrected by Mace Windu by being told "you already have an apprentice" because the Jedi code explicitly forbids the notion of one Jedi Master having more than one apprentice which is the dead give away in the Phantom Menace film because George Lucas was being extremely subtle about how Jedi and Sith behaved in the PT. (Aka he didn't hold people's hands explaining what they were kinda like how certain Marvel comics characters created in the 60s and 70s were still mysterious in origin until the 90s or in the sense that writers can create mysterious concepts that they don't fully explicitly explain but give hints and give aways about)
By that logic applied to how the former Jedi turned to the dark side ended up becoming Sith... he adds that as Sith Lords and apprentices grew in power they would have a type of implied frustration (as depicted in EP2 and Ep3) of thinking they were super powerful but their Sith master would still know additional things about the force but kept it to themselves... which does not mix with greed and lust for power because it means you will want that "power" which brings up another point for later.
By George Lucas's quote it basically explains why the Sith essentially waged war with each other despite "Ruling the Galaxy!" Because their war was a war waged against other powerful Sith Lords under distrust, deceit, lies, betrayals... the SAME things that Sith Lords use to seduce Jedi to the Dark Side... so even from Yoda and Mace Windu's perspective they know that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have another apprentice for the Jedi (which results in bad teaching/apprentices who easily fall) and for Sith because both apprentices will team up and take power from the master because Midichlorians is not a power level indicator of force power, so naturally Sith Lords and their apprentices would plot with other Sith Lords (who they are planning on setting up) until a few remained and while the Sith ruled the Galaxy, their war with each other is what the remaining Jedi wanted to stop... note this is implied because obviously the Jedi managed to remain and come back.
This leads to another point... in the OT the Jedi didn't explicitly tell Luke the truth if the situation... it took a fallen Jedi to say it...
In the PT in ANY scene of Phantom Menace where Senator Palpatine was talking to anyone, he wad using Sith abilities to influence them as well as HIDE his true nature from the Jedi which we can see in Darth Maul who has to hide to blend in otherwise he could not hide in front of Jedi council masters like Palpatine did and George Lucas kinda used an old trick of tricking the audience into thinking that somehow Palpatine and that Darth Sidious guy weren't the same but they were the two faces of a coin.
The Sith or Palpatine also have no reason to tell the truth... hence when Palpatine tells Anakin that he is perhaps more powerful than Yoda... it's an obvious lie... SAME when he claims to have "unlimited power" because all he did was set up Anakin to betray a Jedi.... which is how Sith work.
Sith essentially is an unbalanced aspect of the force because it only leads to chaos and destruction...
Later on in the expanded post RotS George Lucas approved Clone Wars we see the foundation of the Inquisitors which do not use the term "Sith" because they are not "Sith Lords" otherwise if they knew as much as Anakin did or were in close proximity to Darth Sidious, eventually they would plot to kill him which again is another point...
Since the Jedi knew the Sith were a problem, once they confirmed that Anakin was a Sith, there was no Redemption for him only a Duel to have him killed by the Jedi unless the Sith somehow won due to plot
Palpatine or Sidious openly brags about how powerful Anakin Vader is but sends him to "Must be FAR" away from the Jedi so they don't kill him...
Sidious also used Cound Dooku aka Darth Tyrannous to trick the Jedi into believing he was just a politicical idealist... but Count Dooku hired Jango Fett who tried to be secretive and used a proxy bounty hunter who used rare hard to identify weapons... it's all there in the PT if you listen to it instead of critique it...
Thus Darth Sidious was lying about Anakin Skywalker or Darth Sidious power potential... because he could not use fallen Jedi Dooku and because the Jedi Council still didn't see Dooku as the true Sith Lord apprentice he was because they needed the master to reveal himself or have clues... basically you kill Dooku in Ep2 and by Ep3 Palpatine would still have poisoned another Jedi's mind so much that the conflict would still continue and even then it's not that simple to use Anakin right away but if he did it would expose Anakin to getting targeted by the Jedi to be killed
You don't need to have Yoda know about Darth Bane... who like all Sith Lord's are all liars and steal credit from others... thus the Jedi could (of that time) see that the Sith master and apprentices plotted on others for power... always two...
Even two Sith Masters wouldn't work with each other because one would claim to be more powerful than the other, no different from the master/apprentice dynamic which is the sore thumb explained point George Lucas mentioned... "The Sith killed each other" later in AotC Yoda states "lies, deceit are his ways now" so even when Dooku tells Obi Wan "the truth", it's still a lie... he would use Obi-Wan as HIS apprentice and try to kill Sidious regardless of him being Supreme Chancellor just like Vader plotted to recruit Luke... the cycle keeps repeating and George Lucas left it plain in sight...
Thus a Jedi or Sith getting married will never work... a "Sith Council" will definitely NEVER work and technically the PT Jedi were somewhat toxic because they were too involved in government
One thing you forgot... it was mentioned that in canon(not sure if it still is), that bane was killed by a Jedi.
They thought he was, but they were wrong
Allegedly but it could have been a decoy
Thanks for this video! From the sound of it you've worked out the best compromise that accurately reflects Lucas's intentions towards the Sith, or the "Lucas version" of the history. I think the contradiction (Yoda and Mace knowing about The Rule of Two) is there because Lucas's ideas were continually evolving, and at least at first he didn't want to explore earlier eras of history, but was mainly just interested in how they shaped the present.
I like his idea that the Sith essentially "won" at the beginning of their story and defeated the Jedi and conquered the galaxy, but their own rebellious nature led to the loss of everything they'd gained and their near extinction. It's a neat parallel with the idea that the Sith crave immortality, but are denied it by the nature of The Dark Side. That path always leads to failure, even if the Jedi aren't around. But the failures of the Sith are colossal, with collateral damage that could lead to the destruction of all life in the galaxy if the Jedi aren't there to oppose them. In that sense the Sith are like an all consuming fire.
I'd like to speculate for a moment about how Darth Bane's Rule of Two may have originally worked. The modern version requires deception and a substantial power base of "ordinary" soldiers and spaceships to properly take over the galaxy, but it sounds like the original Sith were much more direct in their conquering ways. Maybe the Sith cult was originally more like a multi-level marketing organization: you take on an apprentice, then they take on an apprentice, that apprentice takes on an apprentice, and so on. The result is a long chain of Sith, with each one owing fealty to the one above him, and the Sith at the top controlling everybody. This would provide the organization that allows large numbers of Sith to work together, but would have the disadvantage of very low resilience. Every time a Sith apprentice defeated their master the Sith one link above would have to take them on as an apprentice, or fight it out to determine the new pecking order. Eventually the whole thing crumbled completely and Darth Bane realized they were better off with _just_ two Sith. No more chains of authority that have to be continually reforged. Simplicity is more effective.
What were the dates on those quotes from Lucas? He was heavily involved in the path the novelizations took, starting with the New Jedi Order series; and the final "Legends" novel, Crucible, was specifically set up as a segway into his planned Sequel Trilogy.
was it really setup? I don't think his sequels match with EU, there's no jaina
I don't think anyone's ever seen Lucas's actual plot, but that's what the word circulated as when Crucible was released.
Back in the days whenever a sith Lord appeared he'd always have an underling to carry out his will or orders which was common enough for Yoda to know...the Jedi never knew who Bane was or the rule of two
"I'm not a kid, I'm a Sith", is words we never going to here in disney Starwars ever.
George never had a "master plan" for Star Wars. He just made it all up as he went along, which is why there are so many continuity errors between the movies and trilogies. Too many people put him on a pedestal and claim he's this holy visionary when he's just a man who came up with an (albeit awesome) movie and just kept expanding it when it became popular. That's why you never get any mention of Sith in the OT, why Leia kissed Luke, and Darth Vader being Luke's father wasn't planned until ESB either. Don't get me wrong, George is great but he's not a messiah by any means.
you get Sith mention in deleted scene of OT, stop belittling Lucas's achievements as a world-builder, he's very close to Tolkien in that, he didn't plan out characters, but the world was planned out from the start, he has a bunch of notes on prequels in 1977 and we get introduction to it in ANH novelization, then in 1999 he planned out even more backstory of the respective orders and that's on what Darth Bane books, Tales of the jedi comics and TPM novelization were based, stop making George's visionary less than he is, his hand very much shaped Old Republic even if indirectly
@@goodmind4940 I didn't mention world-building at all, and in fact agree that his world-building is quite strong, particularly in the prequels. I was talking specifically about his character and story decisions in the movies, a lot of which suffer from improvisation and inconsistent drafting issues. Take the book example you brought up. Since you know so much about the novelisation you'd know that it's different to the movie we got. Yes, it refers to Darth Vader as a Sith, but there are countless examples of instances where dialogue is different, characters are different, and actions are different. It even opens with the words "another galaxy, another time," instead of the iconic "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." My point stands that George Lucas wrote most of the story as he went along, and kept making revisions even after the final product was released - changing Han Solo to not shoot first is a prime example of this. If he truly planned everything out, he wouldn't need to keep altering and revising, and there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies in the characters and stories.
Daily reminder that George Lucas is a huge flipflop when it comes to factoids about star wars and tends to enjoy doing storyteller JK Rowling style, which is in interviews rather than in the actual story itself.
*Yawn* another person using the starlog quote out of context. Leland Chee clarified that it doesn't mean it was 'never canon'.
"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."
You didn't mention the frieze in Palpatines office.
"As part of Palpatine's art collection, George Lucas requested a frieze depicting an ancient battle between followers of the light and the dark side of the Force, probably conceptually redirecting to the Battle of Ruusan. Erik Tiemens made the original approved artwork, which was then used as a basis for the finished frieze."
I love how different the EU made each iteration of the Sith and their Empires. I could also appreciate a time when the Sith ruled the galaxy uncontested about 2000 years prior to the films, with the Jedi in hiding and a Republic in shambles, only to be be ultimately brought down by in-fighting amongst their ranks once again and then re-emerge almost a thousand years later as the Brotherhood of Darkness.
Cool idea.
AndreNitro X1000 Thanks! :)
Much like Darth Revan, Darth Bane is easy one of the most interesting characters to ever existed. Even though he made a 30 second cameo appearance in TCW season 6, Mark Hamill still pulled off his eerie, creepy voice.
@Darth Ranger Play Kotor 2. Revan's motivations and logic described there are great.
@@RogersRoger Most of that is just speculation and bias on Kreia's part. Revan didn't really get a personality and characterization until the novel. Also, the motivation suggested in Kotor 2 is complete BS. Willingly falling to the dark side is just retarded and makes Revan seem stupid and reckless.
@@vetarlittorf1807 Then I suggest you stick with your dual mad Revan from the mmo. Much better writing than Avellone, am i right....
@@RogersRoger Oh gee what a comeback...
@Darth Ranger I agree that he became overrated. Right now he is just a pop-culture star with little substance to him but at the time of Kotor 2 release he was the most intriguing character in the series. He made those events possible, he manipulated an entire Galaxy but still fell victim to the Sith doctrine. But all of that has been lost, regrettably.
I think the version with one sith master and one apprentice is the way they worked, even if there were several masters for a while. Thats also what Yoda refers to, they were attacked by a sith, but they always work two and two. One master and one apprentice. He also knew that masters never worked together with each other
I don't remember where it was published... But there was a Jedi that fell to the dark side about 200 bby (maybe this is part of the upcoming high republic storyline) that learned some of what the rule of two was and before his execution, said that part of it. It was ignored by the Jedi order for the most part till I think.. 40ish bby.. When the dark Lord's made anikin and Yoda and mace and a very few ppl noticed that the dark side was gaining power...
I remember one other version of origin of the Sith. It goes like this: Some Jedi believe power lies in the dark side and leave the order.They travel to a planet inhabited by a species strong in the dark side the sith.The dark jedi subjecate the sith species and start calling themselevs Sith Lords.Sith Lords and the sith species interbreed and a dark side cult is born.They start killing each other for power until Darth Bane realised that if 2 or more apprentices kill one master that would lead to a weaker master and a weaker Sith order.So Darth Bane kills everyone and takes on one apprentice teaches her everything and if she can kill him the Sith would be better off by having stronger and stronger masters.The line of masters and apprentices continued all the way until Sidious and Vader
Lucas is a messy writer, still mad a better work than disney
He has a lot of ideas and needs to be reigned in by others I feel, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing
I love the Bane trilogy, I hope one day if someone competent is managing star wars we might see an animated or live action version of him. I'd also like the legends continuity to continue one day as well, as unlikely as it is it would be nice.
I wholeheartedly agree. All they have to do is follow the books and they got gold.
I just did a video about bane feel free to check it out
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
In rebels on Malachor, Maul comments when going up an elevator of the sith temple "Only two no more no less". So it seems that the rule of two, or some early version of it was practiced by the sith before their near extinction. So it is possible that Bane creates the Rule of Two before their near extinction, which was then widely practiced by the Sith even building their architecture based on that concept, they are nearly riped out, whether it be because of the Jedi, from infighting, or a combination of both, then one or two of the surviving Sith continue to practice a stricter version of the rule of two in the shadows leading to Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious, whom don't necessarily have to directly connected to Bane's Apprentice lineage, though they still can be
I'm thinking that Yoda learned this during the High Republic era possibly. He learned of the "Rule of Two" but chose to not believe that the Sith still existed. Or maybe he even kept it to himself to not start something among the Jedis. Or maybe he even told the Council of the era but they didn't believe him.
Very interesting chapter "Memories IV" in the new book, "Thrawn Ascendancy", that may hint at the direction the new canon is headed regarding the Sith.
Yeah, Thor should do a review and break down of it
“Have you ever heard of the story of Darth Bane the savage? It’s a story George Lucas wouldn’t tell you.”
I always thought that Darth Revan's holocron essentially explained the nature of the Sith rather well. EU, Legends, or not, I always found this to be my headcanon "Sith philosophy":
"I am Darth Revan, Dark Lord of the Sith. Those who use the dark side are also bound to serve it. To understand this is to understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith. The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must seek power above all else, with no reservation or hesitation. The Force will change you. It will transform you. Some fear this change. The teachings of the Jedi are focused on fighting and controlling this transformation. That is why those who serve the light are limited in what they accomplish."
"True power can come only to those who embrace the transformation. There can be no compromise. Mercy, compassion, loyalty: all these things will prevent you from claiming what is rightfully yours. Those who follow the dark side must cast aside these conceits. Those who do not-those who try to walk the path of moderation-will fail, dragged down by their own weakness. Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each Master must have only one student."
"This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be. My time here is ended. Take what I have taught you and use it well."
I pretty much agree with you there at the end. But about what goes in Lucas head... Not even god, if there's one (and doesn't matter which one) knows.
Could also chalk Lucas's version of the rule of two thing up as two different versions. Yoda could've been aware of how the sith used to always co.e in pairs but were numerous. And then bane started the true rule of two which meant that there could only ever be two in total.
Well, here’s my canon: it happened as it did in the Drew K books, and Bane survived the mental battle with his apprentice at the end. Because Bane is awesome, and the ending was left open for a reason (despite what Drew K said years later).
I have no problem with Bane creating the rule of two. Someone else could discover that information after the Bane trilogy-we just didn’t see it happen. Oh gosh. Whatever. Blablabla. I liked the Bane trilogy is my point lol.
I thought Bane was hella badass. It made no sense to me that Bane would lose that mental/force/essence battle to a fairly novice (in comparison) force user, like you read the trilogy, you know how powerful that guy was. The reason he created the rule of two was the most decent reason I could have come up with, but that's just me.
The 2 best explanations for me would be Bane rising up out of the chaos to establish this new ideology. The rest of the sith die around him then there is just the 2. They go on like this very effectively for a while before the Jedi believe they actually eliminated the last 2. But maybe the apprentice had an apprentice they didn't know about who knew some of the sith ways but obviously not all. So he/she started hiding in shadows, studying the dark side to become as powerful as they once were, which is why it takes a thousand years. Seems a little cleaner to me.
The second is Yoda has had an encounter of some kind during his long life and either didnt fully believe what he saw or was not believed when he brought it up.
Honestly, as an ignorant fan, when I first watched the movie I interpreted Yoda’s sentence as:
they always go in couples (meaning there’s many masters with one, no more, apprentice each), not that there can only exist two at any given time.
This video is an very great analysis of George Lucas' story & I think you hit the nail perfectly on the head here.
George has never been consistent in his interviews about SW lore. I have a great respect for the man; I wrote to him as a child and still have his two letters in response, but he should've taken notes or something after public events because he contradicted himself so often he probably could've been a politician.
It would be very coincidental if the Jedi that was studying the dark and the light side was rejected to the rank of Master by somebody like Windu did to Anakin was but years ago. As George Lucas says it's poetry supposed to rhyme.
This kind of makes me think that the Rule of Two was meant to encourage or enforce Sith Lords to take on an apprentice in order to avoid dying out in their pursuit of power, so they'd have to 'share' and make new Sith rather than greedily keeping everything to themselves and taking all their knowledge with them when they die. Basically adhering to the padawan-master system.
They made a tiered canon to be able to sell the EU as canon. So I frankly don't care what Lucas' personal thought on this was, he/his company sold them as canon (pics of book covers free to find for anyone on the internet).
Agreed.
There is the Sith planet where a ship was marooned and started a civilization. Then Ben Skywalker and was found by "Ship", an intelligent Sith vassal which eventually adopts Vestara Khai as a "Lady Sith".
Maybe Yoda knows about the Rule of 2 through the force. He just sees it in a vision of something at some point in his 900 year old life
I personally think that Lucas kept the history of the Jedi and the Sith deliberately vague so that the audience can feed their own imaginations with how both groups started out.
One thing I have always remembered that Lucas said regarding the origin of the Sith was in the 'Fights' documentary on the Episode I DVD bonus disc. His exact words were:
"The Sith Knights were started by a fallen Jedi Knight who was tempted by the Dark Side. But the secret was that they were patient, they trained, they studied but they didn't make their presence known to anybody until we get to Episode I where they finally make their move to try to take over the universe"
This quote makes no mention of when this Jedi fell to the dark side and there's no mention of Darth Bane.
My interpretation based on what the six films, the Clone Wars and what Lucas has said is this:
The Sith started by that aforementioned Jedi who fell to the Dark Side. They did fight the Jedi for many years but, as Bane said in the Clone Wars, they destroyed themselves because of their own greed. Bane was the last survivor and chose to pass on his knowledge to one apprentice. Bane was then killed by the Jedi but that one student went into hiding and the cycle continued for 1000 years until we got to Sidious and Maul.
That's at least what I think.
I think that over the centuries, a Sith Assassin or Apprentice like Ventress or Maul has cropped up from time to time and attempted to take everything themselves. They were stopped by the Jedi but talked enough about how their system worked for them to get an outline. And a group that ignores the Nightsisters, Hutts, or Zygerryans is going to ignore or get tired of looking for one or two guys. The Jedi order of the Prequel era seems to be overconfident in the idea that the Sith would basically just jump back into their old trenches. Mobilize an army and march on the Senate again. So the Jedi and Republic work to make it harder for them to create a huge army. So the Sith said "fine". And hid out as bankers and industrialists for centuries.
The question I have, in 2020, is: What does he think of (the upcoming) STAR WARS: The High Republic era, and how does it gel with his long-standing "notes" for The Star Wars Universe? Better yet, were George Lucas and Dave Filoni even consulted during the initial conception (in 2014), brainstorming (in 2018), and actualization (coming in 2021) of this "new" time in the history of The Jedi, The Galactic Republic, and the galaxy? P.S. My hope is that within this SW: The High Republic book and comic series, Yoda discovers a lost, hidden Holocron, that was created by Darth Bane, revealing The Rule of Two, which is how he knows of that secret code, AND, how he recognizes the dark spirit or illusion of Darth Bane, in The Clone Wars.
Canon isn't based on George's story, it probably has even less restrictions than EU, they can do whatever
@@goodmind4940 Yes, but that's the problem. Just look at The Sequel Trilogy.
@@anthonyyoutubefan7567 we can't do anything about that other than not buying their stuff
George Lucas forgot.
This is Darth Bullsith of the Galactic Notification Empire! All wings, report in!
Bullsith, standing by!
TARDIS 1, standing by.
The Jedi had Sith Holocrons, I believe that was established in the Clone Wars. The Jedi could have found the remains of an apprentice of Bane who was too weak to best him as well as that apprentice’s apprentice. They could have had a Sith holocron that could have told the Jedi that the Sith followed the rule of two. Upon finding that information and two bodies they could have assumed the Sith were extinct since the rest would probably be well hidden enough.
Yoda could have learned of the rule of 2 from any number of the sith artifacts kept in the secret chamber of the jedi temple. Holocrons being the main repositories of knowledge for both the sith and jedi.
I love George, I really do but he often contradicts himself in interviews so it can be hard to get a handle on which way is up or down. We know during the writing and filming of the OT that a lot of things changed frequently and sometimes dramatically so I think things that haven't been told as movies or TV episodes by George are in a constant state of flux and where he was at at that particular point in time with pondering on them. George did take stuff he liked from the EU and put into the PT & some of the quotes I've read from authors of EU books they really felt there were certainly canon. There's the much talked about lists that the EU authors would send to get a yes or no approval from George about ideas for the EU. This is where I like the tiered canon approach. Considering we've got 40 odd years of Star Wars lore in lots of different formats from lots of different creatives there's going to be some inconsistencies in things.
I always thought what Yoda said to Windu felt in contradiction with Bane's story.
In canon the Jedi had a Sith Helmet that could talk. So I mean there's no reason the Grand Master of the Jedi Order at least talked to it once.
But I'm sure the High Republic will change everything.
There was a hierarchy to the canon, which is why George didn't really focus on the EU too much but at the same time he had to have the final say on matters concerning it. Think of the movies as the top of the pyramid and everything else subservient but at the same time essential to building up the Star Wars universe. The EU is necessary in building up the movies and expanding on them. There will be things that won't make sense or that are no longer essential over time and so it is debated if they need to be discarded. This goes for things that George was personally involved in or that he had spoken about, which makes it all the more confusing. Evidently, it comes down to what is published and what is made. People can say a lot of things, but if money isn't put where their mouth is then it's just words even if those words come from the creator of one of the biggest franchises out there.
I always thought that the original Thrawn Trilogy was supposed to be the base for a screenplay for episodes 7-9 originally.
Ironic, Today I Just Checked Out One Of The Original Darth Bane Books
a video about me? lets go
Hey bane I just made this video in your honor
m.ua-cam.com/video/RA9s3zG9Smg/v-deo.html
While I'm a big EU fan, I still recognize Lucas's authority when it comes to HIS saga. If he says there were no Old Republic wars in his vision, I'll probably be cursing for days but will eventually accept his version. We still have our stories after all. The huge part of the dislike for the newest content is that it's not made by the creator but rather by a committee with a singular goal in their minds.
Drew made the game stories and he had a single vision.
Nah. I'd never accept his version as the ONLY one. I'm for the idea of multiple timelines, but just happen to believe that only the most interesting (i.e. well-written) timelines should be given focus and publicity. I like the EU because its a universe/timeline created by committee, and its actually good despite that.