Starship Lore : D'Deridex Class - Predator of the Alpha Quadrant
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- What's up Lore Masters -
Let's discuss the Alpha Quadrant and the Romulan Star Empire's D'deridex Class starship. One of the most powerful ships of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. The Fearsome Rival of the Galaxy Class Starship.
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Has been my favorite ship since I first saw it as a kid. It has a beautiful silhouette, and it's absolutely massive. The cloaking device is just the cherry on top.
It does have a quality about it..
Same! I always loved D'Deridex
"The Prometheus incident was done by D'Tan and his separatists and not the Tal Shiar. I'm not forced to say this at gunpoint. *romulan disruptor sound in the background*"
*body thump*
Lore Reloaded What body?
BEEP.
Wasn't Tal Shiar completely crippled by the time of the Prometheus incident? Or was that just the Obsidian Order?
They would both have deep cover and secondary bases and operatives but ya most were killed in the attack on the fake founders Homeworld.
Concerning the power of the of the Warbird compared to a Galaxy Class, in the episode Tin Man a single D'deridex manages to quite easily damage and almost disable the Enterprise D in the race to the tinman. In an attack that lasted barely 30 seconds the shields were drained by 70%, which indicates the ships power.
Regarding how a Warbird stacks up to a Galaxy.
There is a key scene in the episode "Tin Man" where a Romulan D'deridex fires on the Enterprise and drains 70% of their shields and basically cripples the ship so it can't chase them using a few seconds of fire from its forward disruptor.
It's noteworthy because it's the only time I can remember where the Romulans or Enterprise didn't have any reason to screw around pulling punches, and both ships seemed in 100% fight ready condition.
This is the same Warbird that blows its engines out trying to keep up with the Enterprise at warp to, so if anything it's even possible its power systems had suffered some level of damage, or the majority of power had been routed to propulsion.
ColdBlueLight exactly
"When the E-D crew encounter a Romulan Warbird they act like they are facing imminent destruction." There are a number of explanations:
1. The bird is more powerful.
2. They don't know.
3. The two are equally powerful and it comes down to the skill of the commander, the competence of the crew, and a lucky shot.
4. M.A.D. scenario ensues.
5. They are not so concerned with whether or not they are destroyed but whether their actions trigger a wider war with the Romulans.
6. In terms of weapons, shields, and maneuverability the Bird is probably weaker but the cloak gives it an edge. And you never know how close his friends are.
That's right, you don't know how close his friends are. But you can be sure he keeps his enemies closer.
It's absolutely number 5 - Picard always saw that the only measure of victory was to not have a conflict. He would have done everything to diffuse a situation even if he knew he had the upper hand.
A common theme in TNG episodes is that Star Fleet is looking to avoid wars at all costs. So confrontations with volatile and powerful powers like the Romulans and Cardassians were always tense
I agree with 6
*Borg attack Romulan and Federation colonies along the Neutral zone*
Romulan leader:...I LOVE THAT SHADE OF GREEN! Quick, before we meet the Federation, paint all of our ships that color!
Alamandorious I see what you did there
Multiple comments redacted by TALSHI...BEEEP/COMMENT TERMINATED AT SOURCE.
More likely, the borg captured one and assimilated the paint job.
Or just payed premium 😂
Our HUMAN blood oxygenates from Blue to Red as a result of Iron.
Their ROMULAN blood (and also Vulcan/Reman blood) oxygenates from Orange to Green as a result of Copper.
On engineering pressure valves for steam locomotives (and otherwise) the danger band is often coloured Red to inform people of risk. The Romulans are obviously just communicating danger to others _both_ by the sheer size of the ship (an obvious bluff), and also by its colour that represents blood.
In the TOS episode The Enterprise Incident the Enterprise, under orders from Starfleet, flat out stole a cloaking device from the Romulans and then took off with it (and their commander) back to Federation space, so there is a long history probably of both sides flat out stealing tech from the other side without going to war.
I'd say it's like with North Korea where both are at war but there's a cease fire in place that both sides are willing to push but neither truly break.
The Star destroyer of ST.
That actually was a scripted and filmed, but then deleted scene where the Romulan ship was supposed to have been the product of espionage. This scene and its ramifications did make it into the James Blish adaptation of the episode.
It was a war a cold war. The usa and ussr did the same thing for decades.
“Yeet”
The Federation TOS Era
One of the most aesthetically pleasing ships to me
Romulans, to my knowledge anyways, didn't like to engage in even fights if they didn't have to. So even if the Warbird was more than a match for A Galaxy class, if the result was questionable they wouldn't take the chance unless they could get the drop on it, or outnumbered it.
Clim hazzard. Nobody likes to get into a fair fight! I think the Romulans were ironically in a position where their ships would massacre the fed equivalents then they would soundly lose any war that resulted. They simply couldnt match the capacity of the feds, their few warbirds would eventually choke on endless fleets of Reliants and Excelsiors!
DrewLSsix For clarification the USS Reliant is a Miranda class Federation starship
David Sadler. I knew that.... just made a mistake lol.
DrewLSsix I knew what you meant just pulling your leg a little
Not to mention the MANY diverse and different ships and classes the Feds kept making. ESPECIALLY in regards to killing stronger enemies then Romulans like Borg in particular. Pretty sure if a Fed ship can take on a Cube or Sphere from an enemy like that a Warbird wont be much a problem. These are deadly but not so much in a fair fight. Remember in the Dominion war even when backed by their strongest enemies turned allies the Romulans took huge casualties the quickest overall
Just because 1 warbird can beat a galaxy class doesn't mean you shouldn't send 2 warbirds to do the job.
I can agree with this for sure..
Just because the crew of a galaxy class ship view a warbird as a threat doesn't mean a warbird is vastly more powerful than one.
That's false reasoning.
In war, you never want to be in a fair fight.
So if you ARE in a fair fight, you should be worried, because that means your odds of survival are about 50/50.
Think about it. Hell, it doesn't have to even be comparable to you in power to be a threat. As long as it's powerful enough to cause you harm, be careful.
(I mean, look at what eventually destroyed the enterprise. There's no way in hell that was an even match-up, but the smaller weaker ship still won. Kinda. XD)
In addition it's made pretty clear that for a long time the Romulans had been isolated and those in Star Fleet weren't sure just how powerful they were. Not only that but if you are face to face with one, you never know if there are a few more that are going to decloak behind you when the weapons start firing... And finally they know that if they start fighting with a Romulan ship it could be the beginning to a war... So yeah that last one alone is a good reason to be nervous about facing one... Knowing you could be the flash point of a war is a lot to handle.
@@LoreReloaded That's true. But on the other hand, just because a Warbird is SLIGHTLY less powerful than a Galaxy class, doesn't mean a Galaxy crew wouldn't see it as a threat. 10% less powerful can kick your...ahem....backside if you make a mistake. Or if they just get lucky. Also, IRL, the concept of "10% less powerful" would not be a legitimate assessment. Most weapon platforms have advantages and disadvantages, if you're talking about roughly the same tech level. For instance, one ship might be faster with a flexible weapons suite, while the other might be more maneuverable with more powerful (but less flexible) weapons. "10% less" or "10% more" would be somewhat subjective depending on your viewpoint. Given skilled commanders/crew experience, the tactical situation and random chance - either one could win. Therefore, either one could be a threat to the other, worth taking seriously.
Koo
I always loved these beasties.
Watching TNG as a kid with my dad it was always an 'oh shit' moment when one of them showed up.
I was always left with the impression that the Federation and Starfleet had no direct counter to a one on one stand off with one of these warbirds and that always seemed to be reinforced by the reactions of the characters on screen.
This warbird always represented the Romulan's Bismarck in my mind.
Slade, Really now that I think about it, did Starfleet even know what the Romulan ship's capabilities even were? If I remember correctly the Romulans hadn't been heard from for a while...
I fully admit that I am not as well versed in ST lore as I am in other fandoms however to my understanding the Romulans withdrew behind their border for some number of decades and the Federation didn't really hear from them during that time.
Then suddenly the Romulans turned up at the border one day with the D'deridex and Starfleet kinda crapped the bed.
It's still their flagship Class. When the small amount of Warbirds attack (went straight into a trap) the Founders sent most of their fleet to wipe them out. They weren't taking any chances Against multiple Warbirds with other smaller backup ships.
"We're only being tapped on the shoulder or we wouldn't be here talking about it" seems pretty clear.
The Romulan fleet could be like the US Navy, where the smaller ships use conventional fuel and the aircraft carriers use nuclear reactors.
Now I'm defending the continuity of Nemesis. Look what you made me do.
And somewhere at the back of the fleet is a single centurion in a spacesuit on a peddle boat.
+Andrew Thomson the dil mines and such could be for romulan civilian use as well
Well, it makes sense that not every ship in your fleet releases a hole in space-time when its destroyed/disabled.
or they mine the conventional fuel for any potential "allied" forces to use. They are sort of a State Sponsor of terrorism...
@@kinggoten or straight-up trade - sell the Dil for the latinum to build your fleet.
Don't forget the 2 defiant class starships. You know Starfeet is not in the negotiating mood when they send a small Task Force of 1 Akira and 2 defiant Class Starships.
hah, that's true for sure..
When you curb stomp a Nebula, no reason not to send a warm greeting through sheer firepower :)
I think sending the Nebula was an hail mary play. The only starship in range with decent firepower. This did take place during the Dominion War and before the Romulans join(we're ticked) the war.
When did that happen?
Voyager episode 'Message in a Bottle"
I don't know if a D'Deridex outguns a Galaxy-class, but I would say at the least they were evenly matched. You are right that the Enterprise definitely treated the warbirds like a real threat whenever they saw them.
We've seen the Big D outclassed(when it comes to pure combat) by much lesser enemies. The Warbird is the preeminent military vessel this side of the galaxy, I honestly believe the idea that if they'd wanted to destroy the Enterprise, it'd be destroyed.
When I first saw the D'Deridex as a kid on TNG, it was obvious in that scene the Enterprise-D could easily fit in that massive gap in the middle. Ever since then, THAT'S what I've wanted to see, for some bizzare reason.
"Hey man, you know your ship's got a hole in it right?"
"What?! Where?!"
I always thought the shape of the D'Deridex was weird, like who thought it was a smart idea to build a ship with a hole right through the middle?
In the opening movie of the game star trek armada worf flies a defiant class through the hole
If you understand weapon targeting systems it makes perfect sense. Most weapon targeting systems would identify it as one large target, shooting for the middle is ALWAYS what you do if you want to hit the target. Modern weapon systems targeting always target the middle of the ship/aircraft, so if the middle is empty you miss, and do no damage.
The same designer that told the Asari to put a giant hole through the Destiny Ascension.
He really did it. The absolute mad man. He finally made it.
This was awesome!
The D'deridex is my favorite vessel outside Starfleet as well, it's just something about it that I love the look of. Very sleek and beautiful! Thanks Lore
Easily my favorite of all the ships in Star Trek. It's gorgeous, it's a bruiser, it has disruptors,it has a cloaking device, it's romulan, it's perfect.
Great overview. I'm wondering that the Romulans, being cautious, were very hesitant about committing these ships to pitched battle so their enemies would be left guessing their overall capabilities. After all, the Romulans were masters of subterfuge and loved to keep secrets, even when going face to face with their opponents. These ships did seem be designed with a significant emphasis on theatrics. It's sheer size, combined with cloaking tech seem to suggest it.
The ships are very intimidating when they suddenly uncloak in your face, obviously deliberate display of force. But they're also very powerful when they suddenly uncloak and attack you in the back. There's a lot of speculation about how Warbird-vs-Galaxy would play out, but I think the Romulans would never deliberately discard such a powerful advantage. If a Warbird appears right in front of you it's because it can indeed destroy you, or it wins when revealing aggression vs your desperate willingness to avoid conflict/war at almost any cost, or it's not as outgunned as it seems because other Warbirds are cloaked in a position to strike.
the D'deridex and the Enterprise D always seemed to be on equal footing. That in 100 battles between the two 50 would go for the galaxy and 50 for the D'Detidex. As for sending two to capture one it makes sense, capturing a ship requires skill and finesse not to blow it up.
Out of all sci-fi starships that I've known, the D'deridex is without question the one I would choose as my personal flagship.
I like it
I love DITL and I almost expected that you were going reference that assessment of the Double D. I would tend to defer to that site, because as you said, his arguments are compelling. But growing up watching TNG first run, I always got the sense that the Galaxy and the D'Deridex were at parity. The Galaxy was faster, but the D'D has a cloak so it evened out. That's why the Romulans always tried to double team, so that they were always guaranteed the win. That's culturally critical for the Romulans as it's been shown time and again on Enterprise, on TNG, and even the entire Romulan non-aggression pact with the Dominion in DS9, that they never ever ever get into a fight if they have a reasonable expectation that they might lose. They're not gamblers.
As far as canon vs designer intent, I actually go the completely opposite way exactly for the same reason. Since the writing teams and producers are so fecklessly inconsistent, I find the original designer's opinion to be ever more valid and valuable as the correct reference point. Scaling of the starships, especially those with windows are often scaled to a specific size and then the writers or some producer decides something should be bigger to feel more epic and to paraphrase Angry Joe, "They go and FUCK IT UP!". So unless that information is correctly and regularly stated across the series such as the Enterprise-D's 1014 person crew complement, I tend to ignore inconsistency in favor of original intent.
Would you please explain why you think that the Warbird wouldn't be able to maintain a warp field? I mean I was never a fan of Gene and Matt Jefferies contention that there had to be clear space between warp nacelles anyway, as it doesn't make sense, the entire ship has to be enveloped in the warp field anyway. I'm fairly certain it was just Gene trying to invalidate all of Franz Joesph's contributions in any event, either for personal reasons or because the militarized aspect his work showed was counter to Gene's new revised utopian vision.
As for the Singularity drive (QUANTUM) I like that the Romulans went in such a completely different direction. But if the same basic warp engine function exists, then the Singularity would produce warp plasma which would then be tuned by channeling it through the Dilithium before being sent to the nacelles where the warp field is created.
As for the impulse engines..there are two possibilities in story. First, have you seen the engine exhaust on an F-117? It's possible that the D'Deridex has very then slit impulse engines that have very low plasma output and have minimized exhaust for stealth purposes, just like the Nighthawk has reduced infrared signature. Second, impulse engines have a lower powered version of a warp drive, impulse engines have driver coils that warp space for propulsion purposes. Just like the Normandy's Mass Effect Drive in stealth mode. That's standard on all Impulse engines, the plasma exhaust functions alongside that. Now, the key is, the warp drive can do the exact same thing. So even on the Enterprise they can use the warp drive to move at sublight speed if they need to. So the D'Deridex using it's warp drive for sublight is functionally possible. And if they don't have to worry about fuel concerns with the Singularity drive it would even make sense.
The impulse drive; the singularity is essentially an artificial black hole. I say this because in an episode of TNG Timescape an alien race mistook it for a natural black hole. So as I said impulse.
The Romulan approach to impulse with the D'deridex Class may simply be using the singularity to manipulate local gravity to create a gravitational incline that the ship rides on; always fall down the incline.
As for why see dilithium mines, and no mention or sign of the singularities being used on other Romulan craft...IT'S A FRAKKING ARTIFICIAL BLACK HOLE! They have to be hard as hell to form. Can not be easily disposed of. Are essentially highly mobile extinction level events. The D'deridex was a prestige class; huge, powerful, a galactic statement of power projection. But eventually even the Romulans had to have said to themselves "You know guys, maybe building our REALLY FUCKING EXPENSIVE ships around an artificial version of the most dangerous objects in nature isn't the best idea...right?!"
Also my favourite non-Fed ship is the Romulan scoutship seen at the start of the episode "The Defector". It's just plain beautiful.
It _has_ been hypothesised that you could use the Hawking radiation from the evaporation of a small artificial black hole for spacecraft propulsion. We're talking one with a mass of around half a million tonnes and which would last for about three years before it finished evaporating.
I fail to see how hauling an artificial black hole around is more dangerous than hauling a huge chunk of antimatter.
Anti-matter might blow up a chunk of a world, but a black hole could eat the whole frakking planet.
That's only if it's a really massive one. Stellar mass or bigger. The half-million-tonne one you'd use for spaceship propulsion would be microscopic and would be emitting so much Hawking radiation that anything that might otherwise be pulled in by its weak gravitational pull would get pushed away by the Hawking radiation.
People always overestimate the concept of a black hole. It's about matter density, not matter alone. So even a tiny mass can create a black hole if it is dense enough.
So I wouldn't say using a singularity as a power source is inherently riskier than antimatter. Rather the other way around... then again, you can't control a singularity as much as you can control antimatter, it's a bit like nuclear energy. Once you started with it, you gotta push through because it doesn't just stop.
Hell yeah! Been waiting for this one! :D loved this ship since I was a kid
Genuinely intimidating design.
I strongly agree! It's an awesome ship! Green is actually my number one favorite color! 1 Romulan D'Deridex Warbird versus 1 Imperial Star Destroyer! Which would win?
Well, star trek technology is at least in my opinion generally superior to SW. In SW for example clocking tech is very rare and expensive. This fact would put a slow imperial ship at a huge disadvantage. All the warbird need do is decloack in the ISDs rear arc and FIRE EVERYTHING.
"And Bomb Voyage!"
It could cloak and leave a shadow clone in its place as a decoy ship
"It's a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake!"
sometimes I think the fake was good enough to pass inspection, but the look in sisko's eyes when he handed it to Vreenak was what tipped him off
thegeneral123 it’s a steaaaaaaaaake
Dude Vreenak and Khan are total Star Trek classics!
@Cyphox IT'S REEEAAL!!! DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?!
You should watch out for explosives around you....
D'Deridex Class power was precisely seen during Dominion war and during Prometheus incident where these ships seemed pretty weak. And it is perfectly understandable that Ent D crew never underestimated this ships because they didn`t know the exact power of these ships ... as they seemed to be significantly larger than Galaxy class and were completely new to Federation. Romulans were always boasting and pretending to be stronger and this ship is precisely what they needed to support that behaviour ... but usually they were just covering their overal weakness and rather retreated than fought. Romulans fight only when they have significant advantage over their opponent.
But you never know in Star Trek universe ... one galaxy class ship can fight completely without shields with several Jem Hadar ships and has to be destroyed only after one of the attackers rammed to the secondary hull ... and another galaxy class is destroyed by very old and obsolete Klingon bird of prey after several shots to the hull. Especially when Brannon Braga is the author of the story line ... anything can happen and nothing is cannon.
An absolutely gorgeous ship
This is the vessel that makes me respect the Romulan Star Empire, and makes the Romulans my go to faction in the Video Games.
agreed
There are no torture chambers . Those are regular Reman crew quarters.^^
no they have " special guest " quarters
It's was always my feeling that the warbird and Galaxy glass we're pretty evenly matched. In which case it would be a serious threat since a battle could go either way.
yep, always when playing as Romulans in the STO, I choose the D'Deridex Class
From Probert's own notes, the shuttlebay is at the back of the ship's upper hull, with twin cargo bay doors on the underside. The main disruptors are the ball shapes (including the ship's 'eyes') and there's a torpedo tube along the upper 'spine' at the top.
No visible impulse engines, unless they're a thin slit in the rear 'tail'.
I like it. Unlike almost every other faction the Federation faces, only the Romulans have built a ship in unknown numbers that can at least match the Galaxy class. It's also a unique design, and freaking huge. Whatever its dimensions are, its bigger than anything the Klingons or Cardassians have in TNG.
While everyone seems to fumble over its comparison in combat to the Galaxy, we do see it happen twice. And both times the D'Deridex damages the shields to the point that a second attack would likely cripple if not destroy the Enterprise.
Also, I recall an episode where the Romulans had set up the Federation by replicating Fed weapons, and it was found that the Romulans had built better phaser rifles than the Federation standard, suggesting they had better weapons technology.
I really think the pucker factor involving Federation encounters with Warbirds is due to the idea that you are facing a starship roughly equal to your own Galaxy class, PLUS whatever unknown twist the Romulans have up their sleeves. It is such an undeniably OBVIOUSLY powerful ship for an Empire who's true machinations and capabilities are always anything but obvious.
With out the engines being seen we have to explain it away. Something that Star Wars fans have had to do after the Disney disaster. I had respect as a trek fan before and now I have more as a fan of both. Thank you for what you do!!
If the 2002 PC game "Bridge Commander" is to be used as evidence as a simulator (using stock ships only), a D'Deridex class ship could certainly collapse the forward shields of a Galaxy Class ship and destroy it in short order. However, in practice, the Galaxy class, being the more maneuverable and agile of the two, could take advantage of its more complete phaser arcs, and roll/rotate to face the strong side shields against the warbird's weapons. Maneuvering to blind spots in the Warbird's firing arcs, then concentrating weapons on a subsystem, would mean that a Galaxy class ship could more than take on a D'Deridex class ship, depending on the captain's experience.
The D'Deridex is hands-down, without argument, the single sexiest ship that has ever been presented in science fiction. Book it, done!
Though I can't name the episode, I seem to distinctly remember picard telling a warbird commander "we both have very powerful weapons at our disposal" in response to the commanders threat, and the commander seeming convinced, and immediately reducing his hostility.
I always took "if I wanted you destroyed, you'd be destroyed" as just another case of typical romulan arrogance.
And about the warbird in Tin Man, not only did it hit the enterprise from behind, which is supposed to be the weakest part of the galaxys shield. But having someone take out such a large percentage of your shield in the first few hits is something we see happen all the time in star trek with every class of ship. Its an Inconsistent cliche if anything.
1: Nice reference to episode "time scape".
2: Federation has ship classing difficulties to this day.
3: OMG! DS9 Technical manual! Pictured!
From memory the episode titled The Enemy, where the Enterprise was facing off with a Romulan warbird, Picard very clearly says to the Romulan Commander that we both have Equally powerful arsenal at our disposal. There we go, just sayin...
For sure my favorite non-Starfleet ship! With ya there man. Would love to have a model!!
This ship and the Defiant are my two favorite Star Trek ships. The warbird looks menacing, and is, the Defiant looks unassuming, but is menacing in battle.
I think this is the coolest ship in the trek universe!
I remember them saying somewhere that the D'Deridex and Galaxy is more or less equal. So yeah they treat it as a treat because it is.
There was an episode of TNG where data said that the Romulan D ship weapons were comparable to the enterprise
You might have missed the part where Andrew Probert explained the Circular Dish on the Beak was a Sheild Emitter, but the C.G. artist had a Torpedo fire from it and a Disruptor. So, now it is a Canon weapons emplacement
Most of the major powers that the TNG made it seem like there was a huge threat to the Enterprise. When facing Klingon the mood was set just like if it was to toe with a Romulan ship, and the Klingon where allies.
My favourite ship during the TNG era. Closely followed by the Vor'cha class
It was stated that the Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird is:
1,041.62 meters long
687.88 meters wide
289.87 meters high
Something else to keep in mind is that capturing, versus destroying, typically requires overwhelming force. That they brought two to capture the Enterprise doesn't suggest that it's weaker, it suggests the complete opposite. They were confident that just two was going to be sufficiently overwhelming.
That is true, two is likely enough to be so assured of victory that Captain Picard would be forced to surrender or die without inflicting any real loss on the Roms.
Have to say, I think the Warbird is simply on par with the Galaxy class. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
The danger comes from the relative unknown that both face. Plus that if either really came to blows then it would mean War. Not just ending with either ship destroyed. I think the victor would be down to a better crew, not a better ship.
The Warbird would have to constantly face the Galaxy to use it’s considerable armaments. It’s a bigger target, with obvious structural weaknesses. The Galaxy is smaller, more maneuverable and can keep up substantial firing at any angle. But it doesn’t have armor.
Yep, this is my favorite Star Trek ship design. I started STO with a Romulan character because I knew that was the only way to get one.
I think the most important thing when it comes to Dderidex ships confronting the Enterprise-D is, that neither site actually wants to start a war. Minor skirmishes, yes, but destroying the flagship of the Federation is not something the Federation could easily ignore, despite the Federation being known to ignore serious situations.
The Romulans literally don't want war. It's a common theme throughout TNG. The conflict always seem imminent, but it never grows into that war. In the most dire standoff between a Romulan fleet and a Federation fleet, the Romulans actually backed out. You know, during the... ehm.. one of the Klingon civil wars, when the Romulans secretly supported the House of Duras against Gowron.
Personally I always assumed that the Warbird is more or less equal in power compared to a galaxy class ship. That doesn't mean it has the same shield strength, weapon power etc, but that the sum of its parts are somewhat on the same level. And I believe it is said somewhere, but for the hell of me I can't remember where or when or even if that's true. Could be a false memory.
This would also explain why it never comes to an actual fight. You know, a fight between equals is dangerous, simply because even with the element of suprise you have a real risk to lose and even if you manage to come out winning, your ship could be so damaged that it could also be just destroyed.
I think that is also something about warfare many people don't know, forget or choose not to see. That fighting a force or opponent of equal strength is likely to be devastating for both sides, not just the losing side. And I believe that the Dderidex Warbird is an equal to the Enterprise-D.
The Galaxy class ship has long range 360 arc weapons and shields and is faster and more maneuverable. In many episodes the Enterprise is said to have port or aft or forward shields down, but not really all shields down at once. The Warbird has massive forward facing firepower. Of course it is a massive threat when it drops out of cloak at short weapon range like we see in multiple episodes. This is what is explained on screen across multiple episodes.
There are a whole bunch of additional points you could make regarding the D'Deridex vs. Galaxy comparison. And that "they sent 2 Warbirds to capture the Enterprise" argument is disregarding a whole bunch of important factors.
-It wasn't just "we're sending 2 Warbirds to capture a random generic Galaxy class ship". It was "we're sending 2 Warbirds to capture the most famous flagship in the enemy fleet, a Galaxy class ship commanded by a widely-respected captain and with some of the most renowned experts in a variety of disciplines among its crew".
-It wasn't "we're sending 2 Warbirds to kill one Federation ship" either. It was specifically a *CAPTURE* mission, where they were not meant to be causing serious damage to the Enterprise or to destroy it.
Given those factors, sending *ONLY* 2 Warbirds indicates a power gap in the Romulan ship's favour, rather than the reverse.
I know in Star Trek Armada 2 you could go into the game files and edit how strong a ship was, how fast it regenerated shields etc... and while I know it was just a game so it had to be balanced the D'deridex class was in fact pretty similarly equipped and strengthed compared to the Galaxy class.
In the episode “Data’s Day” while observing Ensign Juarez’s new baby in Sickbay, Picard says “while we were facing destruction, this little miracle was taking place in our sickbay.” Picard was referring to a confrontation that had taken place earlier in the episode. The Enterprise was carrying a Vulcan Ambassador to a meeting with the Romulans. When the ambassador beamed to the Romulan vessel an apparent transporter malfunction occurred. But further investigation into the incident revealed that while it was supposed to look like a malfunction, it was actually a ruse by the Romulans to kidnap the Ambassador. Picard looks out the ready room window as Data narrates “The safest and most logical thing to do in this situation would be to inform Starfleet Command and standby for further instructions. However, from my experience with Captain Picard, I estimate only an 18% chance that this is the course of action he will take.” Picard turns away from the window and orders “Red Alert, Battlestations!” The Enterprise intercepts the Romulans but shortly after this a Second Romulan Warbird decloaks on their starboard side. Then the commander of the Romulan warbird that perpetrated the kidnapping reveals that the Ambassador was actually a Romulan Spy, and the ruse was to provide plausible deniability. Picard decided not to press the matter and ordered return to Federation space. The short dialogue in Sickbay indicates that although the Enterprise could probably hold its own against 1 Warbird, against 2 she was hopelessly outmatched.
love your empire earth background track
For one, in stands to Reason that what we see in TNG "The Neutral Zone" was equivalent of Battle Bridge or simply comm room, in order not to disclose bridge layout. Also Star Trek universe does come close to sublight reactionless drive - something akin to Minbari Sharlin-class of Babylon 5. Also remember one CONSISTENT thing about Romulans - they do entangle in combat until they are sure that they will win. PS: and yeah, D'Deridex IS INCREDIBLE AND GREAT DESIGN.
I'm not really sure if the D'Deridex is more powerful than a Galaxy class, but to your point about Picard taking one seriously I had a counter-point. In the episode "The Contagion" the captain of the Yamato stated that he had hid from one by parking the ship in a nebula. That combined with the examples you pointed out leads me to believe that Starfleet captains seem to think that they are somewhat evenly matched or at very least could cause significant damage to a Galaxy class. The reason why Galaxy class captains don't seem eager to engage a D'Deridex is because a Galaxy class is basically used as a weaponized luxury liner and don't want to risk civilian casualties.
One thing made abundantly clear is that Romulan War birds had inferior computer systems additionally disruptors and Plasma torpedoes were either implied or out right stated to have much more limited range than Phasers and Photon Torpedoes. This sets up a design philosophy dichotomy where A war Bird has superior fire power at short range while federation ships have longer reach but less raw firepower.
Yes! About time..lol All Hail the mighty Romulan Star Empire! How are you supposed to have a Star Empire without a little torture??
"And we would have gotten away with it too, if not for the Rabin and that meddling Doctor!"
In the episode 'The Defector' it was 2 Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbirds against the Galaxy Class U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701-D and 3 Klingon B'Rel or K'Vort Class Birds of Prey and it was stated by Lt. Commander Data in the episode 'Tin Man' that a Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird is not as fast as a Galaxy Class Starship as for the firepower difference I think both ship classes might be equal in firepower as both a Galaxy Class Starship and a Romulan D'Deridex Class Warbird are both technologically sophisticated and powerful ships though as Picard stated when the 2 Romulan ships were firing on the Enterprise 'This is just a tap on the shoulder' we've never seen these 2 powerful Starships ever go at each other in a toe to toe slugmatch like we did with the 23rd century Romulan Warbird and the Constitution Class U.S.S. Enterprise in the T.O.S. Episodes 'Balance of Terror' and 'The Enterprise Incident'.
I wonder if, perhaps the D'deridex has no visible impulse engines, because the Force Singularity core acts something like the Tantalus Drive Core on the Normandy from Mass Effect, where the core would create an artificial gravity well ahead of the ship and then it just 'fell' forwards, allowing it to manouver at sublight with little to no emmisions.
Yassss. Iv voted for this soo many times
pauric maxwell Right? Me too!
7:08 insert disrupter sound effect here
Romulan D'Deridex: The sexiest starship *ever* designed. And one of the deadliest bastards sailing the black.
I like the Romulan, and Klingon ships because there so well thought out. even when there is semi-peace with tech and ships being incorporated into each other, which is really clear. a lot of alien ships is just quickly drawn up, and then abandoned. having alien ships that appears as Civil and military pride. For the romulans Birds of prey make clear there thoughts, a love of being above a situation undetected with everything below at its mercy.
I remember being a kid watching TNG and being on tbe edge of my seat every time this ship was on screen. It looks hard as nails.
The dimensions of that MANUAL are astronomical!
la forge once commented about the romulan warbird "we would have to get extremely lucky to beat one of those"
the episode where deanna posed as a romulan talshiar,the captain seemed pretty worried,bout the enterprise D."that is a Galaxy class starship" were her words i believe.they are niether weak nor foolish.
What are my thoughts?
Thought of the day: When you are standing face to face with a ship that uses a micro black hole as power source, there is no shame in asking for replacement brown pants.
To compare those to your standard federation AM supported fusion reactor(ie warpcore) is like comparing a garden hose to the Hoover dam. If it's a naked singularity then all bets are off(literally).
Perhaps the quantum singularity technology used on Romulan vessels is the reason that Scotty did not recognize that the Romulan Warbird had a warp drive. He was simply unfamiliar with the technology. Plus at least in the original series we saw dilithium used and other areas unconnected from the warp drive itself.
I love D'Deridex
about the power of the Warbird compared to the Enterprise, we might also want to take into account that the Romulans probably knew about the veteran status of the Enterprise crew, Picard in particular. That is why they might have felt the need to send two Warbirds when facing the Federation's flagship, not (neccesarily) because of it's ship class. Besides, when preparing for any conflict it is also just good practice to outnumber your opponent, just to be sure.
I'm not a hardcore Trekkie, but I've seen enough to know that neither a Galaxy nor a Warbird are ships to take lightly by ANY means. Both tigers in their own right, but with the Warbird baring its fangs more openly.
I think it's worth considering that a Federation captain might not be wary only of the Warbird itself, but also of its crew. Romulans might not jump into combat as readily as Klingons, but they're still markedly more bellicose than the Federation. Add to that their reputation for duplicity, and I think it's understandable that an opponent would be watchful of a potential first strike.
I would say the Warbird and Galaxy are within the margin of error of comparative power. A lucky shot could change the battle either way. Most of the dialogue is just posturing, both sides are sizing each other up knowing a conflict between them would be uncertain.
Romulan battle tactics are based around overwhelming force applied to the weakest point in the enemy defences. This is partly because they're resource poor so can't afford to rebuild ships like the Feds but mostly because if a Romulan commander wins a battle on his/her own they get sole credit and can advance in rank. The best way to ensure your mate doesn't get ahead of you is to tag along with him.
The Romulans always remind me of that old maxim "Age and treachery defeats youth and skill."
And officially, I'm pretty sure that "torture chamber" should be replaced with "friendship room" or "cultural exchange facilitation area" as appropriate.
D'Deridex is for me personally most badass ST ship ever. I absolutely loved flying them and even more crushing all those tiny Federation flying saucers in Bridge Commander with them. Not even Sovereign with her powerful shields, multiple all angle phaser banks and torpedo bay full of Quantum torpedoes could hold against concentrated attacks of her disruptor cannons.
In 1v1 it was practically unstoppable. Truth being said, maybe it was not so good when outnumbered due to huge amount of blind angles, but that was imo not as much fault of its design rather than incompetence of her commanders, who for reasons unknown were flying it like Federation ship (closing up on emeny who is way more maneuverable simply never works, when you are big, slow and restricted to frontal angle. It is what gets you swamped and killed instead)
14:04 "The MANUAL is 1041m long, 772m wide, 285m tall." That's a huge ass manual!
you know..i was thinking the same thing..
it's my understanding that the dilithium mine was for reman ships (and civilian warp ships) , most TNG + Romulan ships use the quantum singularity for power. the cost of maintaining a singularity means they only use them on military vessels. While every one else is stuck using older (and less advanced ) shipping methods. in fact most civilians ( in their empire) can't even get warp 1 capable ships that use dilithium let alone a ship powered by a singularity.
it is possible that the imperial navy and tal-shiar use the forced singularity and older or civilian ships use M/AM-RS, or that the Romulans mine dilithium to sell it to trade partners.
possible..
It could also be legacy tech when they may have needed dilithium but with the advent of the singularity core, they still have all the facilities need to mine a refine it and decided it was a great punishment too for slaves to mine a useless material. We also don't know if the Schimtar use a forced singularity or the more typical M/AM-RS.
Wasn't there a line about the "Reman mines not meeting their quota" or words to that effect? Perhaps this was a longer term thing that had been a festering problem. Maybe the Romulans got shafted in terms of sources of dilithium, and necessity is the mother of invention, which would lead them to experiment with alternative sources of power for a starship.
I reckon the conventional impulse drives were concealed behind armour slides to keep them armoured when not in use.
I rather like this ship, but one of my favorite pieces of Trek concept art is one of its early versions. It was very similar, but instead of being horizontal, the ship was effectively 90 degrees on its side and oriented vertically. It was a unique and striking design, but I can see why they went with the more traditional horizontal layout; it had more continuity with the TOS Romulan ship and likely would have been more practical to film.
Regarding Romulan power systems:
I always assumed that the Military ships utilized the "Forced Quantum Singularity", and that the Civilian ships used conventional Matter/Antimatter power systems.
Epic vid. Love this ship. Can you do one on the Valdore please?
I intend to..yea
Always liked this ship (except for the lower neck support which seems stylistically an afterthought). Always felt it was pretty damned powerful (even if I felt its alleged size was a bit much). An idle thought of mine, never seriously considered, but fun to say, was that the 'singularity' was hovering invisibly in the space between the wings. :)
The whole reason I started playing ST Online, was to grind my way to owning and flying a D'Deridex. : D
As for a Romulan Warbird compared to a Galaxy from what I've seen on screen I've always got the impression that if you put 1 warbird and 1galaxy up against each other round for round there wont be much difference, and the outcome will be mutual destruction, or certainly if one does survive it'll be severely crippled and not going anywhere fast, that being said I believe the reason the Warbirds are often considered superior is because of the cloak, they can get the jump on the Galaxy and potentially get some hits in before the galaxy can get her shields up. I also feel like a big part of which will win comes down to the abilities of the commander, I mean look at how submarine warfare plays out, it's not about going round for round with your opponent, it's about outsmarting them and getting yourself to a position of advantage where you can exploit weaknesses of their vessel, I feel a fight between the Galaxy and Warbird is very much similar. I'd also say the reason they bring 2 to capture the Enterprise is purely intimidation factor, not so much for a fight, they want the Enterprise crew to surrender without a fight, hence having overwhelming firepower is useful.
This ship was no match against the Dominion, and despite it's size, which is mainly empty space, it's not as powerful as it would appear. A galaxy class starship is little bit more massive and can outgun it slightly, despite this ship being twice the length of a Galaxy. But as said, this thing is mostly empty space. In the Voyager episode "Message in a bottle" we see three D'deridex class vessels taking on 1 Akira and 2 Defiants and the Federation ships did not seem to be 'scared' or somewhat and come in just blazing open firing on the three massive D'deridexes. True, it was the USS Prometheus that destroyed one of them using the multivectral assault mode and 2 doctors (who made an oath never to do harm) are have massive joy after destroying one of those ships and 1,500 Romulans onboard. Ehhhh, right....
I've always heard the length was 1350m in TNG it's said in few episodes that the warbird is twice the size of a Galaxy class
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The ship moves towards the QUANTUM singularity. At full stop the QS is centered with the ships mass. By utilizing a Polaron Emitter and Nano-scale Interface System the QS can be "nudged" in the direction of desired travel and speed with remarkable resolution.
just a tought, since the warbird uses a singularity it would mean the weapon power is only limited by the infrastructure of the power delivery system to the weapons themselves and the materials used for construction of the weapons so in theory the warbird could overload its weapons to do a first strike which could potentially cripple or destroy a galaxy class but it would also very likely do long term damage to the power delivery system for those weapons being overloaded... basically making the weapons used for the attack inoperable