Starship Lore : Ambassador Class - Romulan Killer of the Federation
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- Опубліковано 3 чер 2018
- Whats up Lore Masters!
In this Lore Breakdown of starship's - we'll be taking a look at the Ambassador Class starship. This is one of the most interesting starships of Star trek lore - unfortunately, it's not very well known nor talked about.
One thing we know though .. In Romulan Lore and a romulan vs Starfleet scenario? They be scared!
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Oddly enough, what Starfleet calls a "heavy cruiser" the Romulans and Klingons call battleships and dreadnoughts. The 1701-A was called a battlecuiser by the Klingons.
Also, in Enterprise, at Archer's trial by the Duras, when the prosecutor was putting words in Archer's mouth, they claimed he introduced the ship as the starfleet battlecruiser Enterprise.
@Werewolf O. London, Esq. That's not unexpected. Look at the low build numbers. 4 or 5 ?
@Werewolf O. London, Esq. Thanks. Wasn't sure. Very expensive, for a ship that can't take heavy weather.
@@madkabal because it has no large caliber guns it cannot be classified as a battleship, but calling it a cruiser instead of a destroyer would probably be more accurate
The Constitution Class was a “Class 1 heavy cruiser” all the capital ships until the galaxy were “heavy cruiser”s
The Enterprise C always captured my imagination and idealism when I first saw the episode. The idea of a federation starship responding to a distress call from ostensibly one of their enemies, the Klingons, and literally dying in defense of a Klingon outpost, is just really inspiring to me. And the concept that this heroic moment of honor was able to transform the relationship like nothing else ever could between Klingons and the Federation. It's interesting to me. We often look at statistics and the arc of history, but more so, it's single events that can transform the universe. And they're often built on just a few good people, willing to do something special, that might not seem that important, but when they do it, it changes everything. Power of love, sacrifice, and honor.
Yeah but with all due respect, this all comes tumbling down when you realize that the Federation and the Klingons were pretty much at peace at this point, they hadn’t been enemies since the end of the 23rd Century. The C’s sacrifice just solidified that peace, and was pretty much just Starfleet doing it’s job.
Ambassador Class being a Heavy Cruiser makes perfect sense to me.
Here is why In Star Trek Undiscovered country the Federation and Klingons where heading towards peace.
But most of the Klingon houses still wanted war and the Romulans probably where still having hostilities with each other.
Also remember as established in both the original series and search for Spock the Klingon Empire and Romulan Empire had strong relations with each other.
Meaning that probably the events of the Undiscovered country probably only lead to either cease fire or a non aggression agreement.
So that means the United Federation of Planets would have Continued to use Heavy Cruisers expecting the possibility of war with either or both of the Klingons and or Romulans.
But then the events with the Enterprise C happened causing the Klingons to break relations with the Romulans and become allies with the Federation happened.
Resulting in the the Federation swapping to a more support and Exploration style of ships.
"You KNOW I don't like flyin' in space, Hannibal!" - Bajoran Mr. T
_"Look at it! This ship is a space hotel that will blow up all your stuff several times over and will science the sh--- out of it."_ Unknown Star Fleet diplomat.
Starfleet's peace-time ship design philosophy in a single sentence.
"It is the Ambassador Class heavy cruiser, U.S.S. Horatio."-Data in season 1's "Conspiracy"
Yup
True. We only see it explode in that episode.
It started as an explorer, then got downgraded to other mission roles.
@@dragonknightleader1 doesnt it happens always? aka introduce new ship, see friendly ship.. see it explode.
@@LoreReloaded Is it enough with the scene analysis already?? C'mon, more Videos about Ships! You could even design your own! Maybe even TOGETHER with your community/fanbase!
Ship or even Ship Concept/Kind!!
Engineer #1: "Hey, I'm trying to get an extensive retrofit of the Ambassador, but the spacedock's saying that they're full and can only do minor refits."
Engineer #2: "Oh. That's not a problem. Just say that those retrofittings are 'minor refits', and they'll do it."
Engineer #1: "What? They're not minor refits! They're extensive redesigns of the ship's internal structure and systems!"
Engineer #2: "We're talking about Starfleet here. Most of their admirals don't know how their ships work and the rest are just plain insane."
LOL
Boisegang This makes sooo much sense right now, thx ;)
Minor compared to say, a complete warp core overhaul. Total weapons refit. etc. Its all relative.
Some admirals are also evil and/or possessed by alien creatures.
You see this in US aviation a good bit. Sometimes the names of the aircraft are changed or not or budget reasons. The B-29D which was a B-29 with new engines and a bigger tail was renamed the B-50 to help with funding since a new plane was more likely to funded. Fast forward to today and the F-18E/F is 30% larger than the F18a/b/c/d and used different engines but was still called and F-18 because it was easier to get funding for an improved version of the F18 than a new plane.
I can see the same thing being done with "major/minor" refits based on the political situation at the time.
Well it really was an ambassador to the Klingon, the only kind of ambassador they would respect.
On another note I think having a secondary bridge in a Capitol ship so a relief crew could attempt to leg it if the primary bridge is lost is good design though a simple layout of controls in engineering would suffice
With computers like they have access to, you could set up command control in a conference room. Literally, any terminal could be repurposed for helm, tactical, science, anything.
A secondary bridge makes perfect sense.
And when you consider these hooka toking writers always put the main bridge on what is literally the most exposed and vulnerable part of the ship, it makes even more sense.
If I were designing a Star Fleet ship, the bridge would be right square in the middle of the saucer section with diplomatically purposed areas on deck 1 with the view.
Never looked at it that way but that is so true, that one little ship saved the whole of the Federation!!!
The Constitution class had the main bridge and as mentioned a backup bridge called auxillary control. It make sense from a combat vessel point of view. If recall correctly the D7 had an auxillary bridge as well. This was on the older blueprint designs from the 70s.
Now Voyager writers show me on the doll where continuity touched you
Lol
So ENT must've been gang banged?
Four letters for crazy. :)
Are you sure you haven't got that backwards?
If I might borrow a phrase from SFDebris, it's possible that ENT's family was murdered by angry tampons.
The ambassador class has always been one of my favorites. It would have been nice to see a show with that ship.
YEP!!
I AGREE!!!
I always thought the Ambassador class looked more like a mix of Constitution and Galaxy classes
The Ambassador as envisioned by Probert stood more clearly as a step between the Excelsior and Galaxy. As finalized by Sternbach, its lines were simplified and became more of a throwback to the Constitution.
Thank You John Weems!
I feel this way too. Those simplified lines in the final form do evoke (at a glance anyway) an updated version of the Constitution. If I knew nothing about Star Trek beyond TOS and was asked what ship would serve in a revived series exploring the adventures of a 'next generation' then I would pick the Ambassador class.
I like the Nubia more faster & less crew manifest I know when it comes less weaponry than the enterprise or Ambassador class but it is built for speed & in other words hit&run type of missions.
@@davidhernandez9985 I'd like to see a star ship that takes the Ambassador components and puts them in a Nebula class arrangement. For all I know some fans have already done exactly that. :)
On "Minor refits" The last 3 LA class subs are dramatically different than the originals. Decades of building boats did lead to differences.
Yes, but those are new builds. They didn't convert old ones to the new model.
A better example would be the US Navy's Midway-class carriers. The Roosevelt received only "minor refits" that replaced and changed the entire shape of the flight deck, and widened the ship significantly. The Midway herself received one major refit and a series of minor ones. On the Wikipedia page, they have pictures of her from her initial commissioning and after various refits. The ship is unrecognizable as the same vessel from picture to picture. Be careful if you decide to fall down THAT rabbit hole - dawn can come unexpectedly :).
Micheal miller
@@michaelmiller3012 or even the essex class for that matter. The U.S.S. Lexington was commissioned in 1943 as a straight deck aircraft carrier with open bow and stern was retired in 1993 as an angled deck carrier with hurricane bow and plated in stern looking completely different. It stands to reason that Starfleet would have a Ships Life Extention Program like the U.S. Navy has where the ship goes into major refit where new technology is incorporated. Much like the first 4 Ohio class ballistic missile subs were converted into conventional guided missile & special operations support subs.
Thanks for announcing the commercial instead of just cutting to it. Makes your channel seem much more professional than others.
In the imaginary cannon in my head the reason why there is two ambassador class ship designs is because the more advanced looking prototype Ambassador class was built by yoyodyne. Star Fleet had them build it for them on their dime in hopes that star fleet would order shit loads of them.
Then they took delivery, said thanks, didn't order any new ships from Yoyodyne and went with an in-house design instead.
This cause Yoyodyne to suffer a major corperate collapse. Once they laid off all personale, sold all their assests the only thing left was a hole in the wall office on DS9 where they sail star ship accessories.....like LCARS screen savers, mugs with s picture of a cat with forhead ridges hanging by a rope with the caption "just Kling-on" and chrome barabwire frames for the ship hull numbers....with LEDs .
Basically they are the JC Whitney of star ships. All thanks to penny pintching star fleet
Sorry for typos. Talk to text while driving
Also the Ambassador class was the first class to be equipped with phaser arrays instead of phaser banks, which gives the ship greatly improved firing arcs against smaller more maneuverable vessels and minimizes blind spots along with first class to utilize first generation isolinear processor chips
Lore Reloaded the NX is meant to be in front of the registry number, not the name. That is why the NX-Class is the Big outlier...
I've always liked this ship. It's one of my favorites!
PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR SHAKESPEAR!
Shakespeare sounds better, in the original Klingon.
@@richardstraun Given the content of some of Shakespeare's plays, how do we know he _wasn't_ Klingon?
Ambassador class is my favorite Fed ship ever. It's stubby and broad, like a bulldog. That, and it engaged and destroyed several Romulan battlecrusiers before being destroyed itself. Enterprise-C and it's crew would be welcome in Sto'vo Kor for sure.
My guess would be that the treaty between the Klingons and the Federation meant the Federation would have helped with the Praxis clean up and helped find another source of energy production to help them bounce back as a power, because let's face it a Federation / Klingon alliance helps tip the balance of power away from the Romulans, so the Federation pulling the Klingons up from a weakened state can also be a little too humbling for Klingons. It makes sense to me why the Klingons would have rebuilt their military power at this point, to try to remain on equal footing with the Federation. Have I gone too far astray?
josh I can see what you are saying but the klingons seem to be less economic then the federation or the romulans. So it not the lack of resources but the lack of getting a lot of it.
Also, Yesterday's Enterprise aired on February 19 1990, while Star Trek 6 hit cinemas December 6 1991, almost two years afterward. If anyone is at fault, it is the writers of ST VI not Yesterday's Enterprise
the President was talking about evacuation of the Klingon homeworld and other things- likely the Klingons allowed some assitance in reversing the environmental damage from Praxis' destruction, but not in finding a new energy source. In the semi-canon game Star Trek Klingon Gowron tries to reduce the Empire by.giving up useless colony worlds, likely for the same purpose.
it is likely that the Klingon Empire, with the Federation's help recovered over the 50 years but didnt really engage with the Feds.
it could have been as simple as a Chancellor died, the new one was promised/given more support by the Romulans and switched allegiances
the Federation actually followed the Prime Directive, and left when told, as it was an internal matter
the Romulans then started the war like how they tried in Enterprise, by being lying sneaks... frame the Klingons for a few raids here, frame the Federation for a few strikes there, assassinate the Klingon ambassador to the Federation(while he is on Earth discussing the raids) and tada Klingon pride demands war
my guess was the rest of the plan was to
offer to help the Klingons in their war, then backstab them, tell the Federation the Klingons were raiding you too and the Federation to just let the Klingons be conquered... and 1 more vassal for the Romulans
My guess was that the Romulans were pissy about the Tomed incident in 2311 and figured they could try their hand again at pulling the Klingon and Federation strings like puppet masters as they did in the 2150's (albeit the Coalition of Planets vs Romulans), but this time would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling Starship Enterprise's!
Your sarcasm is so on point. I love it.
Prototype ships start with an NX registration, then most of the time they change it to an NCC registration once testing is done and the ship enters full service.
At least that’s what I see in the canon I’ve seen.
I suppose you could pretty much say the mere fact of the Klingon Empire still being a power after the events of the Undiscovered Country is in the VIP self a bit of a plot hole. Considering their long history of expansion by conquest and the sudden loss of a major resource, infighting and uprisings really should have led to their ultimate collapse. Even the Federation wouldn't have had the necessary resources to help them at that point. Even if they tried to help, such an attempt would be an extremely costly endeavor that would leave them vulnerable to the Kardashians and romulans.
I think there’s an inherent fascination with “in-between” models. Look how much folks are taking a look at the Wii U in light of the Switch.
I find it interesting that you called all those changes as part of the minor refits. Most sources I know of claim all of those changes were part of what is often known as the major 'Yamaguichi' refit since the U.S.S. Yamaguichi was first to see those changes. Operational shortcomings being cited as reasons why, of course, for the needed changes. I've never heard of them being minor refits. I loved how you cited the ambassador class being part of the Galaxy class lineage as that most technical journals cite the class as exactly that including testbeding impulse, weapons and shield systems among others that were put right on the Galaxy class. I've watched a number of videos of yours and sometimes get curious at what all are your sources. Still your are right about it being a popular ship and it is my personal favourite. Thanks!
In Yesterday's Enterprise the ship would have been strictly military so the crew would have been smaller than other Ambassador class vessels.
possibly
If you're talking about the Enterprise C being strictly military, wasn't the destruction and failure of the Enterprise C in that timeline the reason that the Federation became much more militaristic?
@@tristanxd6445 Yeah, the disappearance of the Enterprise C through the temporal anomaly caused the alternate timeline where the Klingons went to war with the Federation, which we see in the episode.
Thanks for doing this one. The Ambassador is one of my favorite classes.
I find your channel very informative and wonderful breakdown thank you so much for it you could do a breakdown about the nebula class starship
Star Trek Voyager = redheaded step child that gets blamed for everything regardless of innocence.
I was being positive about innovative tech!
Not that VGR is innocent, but that the rest of trek is equally guilty. I had to chuckle about him preferring alpha (screen) canon because of things like deck counts😂
Omg! Yessssss!
Even Voyager is blame for the slang word, V'ger.
Oh it wasn't you say? Then I will simply say, spoiler alert!
LOL
Voyager seems to have far less continuity issues than say ENT or DS9.
ENT says, phase canons, warp cores, cloaking devices and advanced holograms and no Klingon conflict and First Borg encounter. TOS and TNG say Klingon Conflict, no cloak and advanced holograms and no borg.
DS9 mostly fails it's own established continuity and TNG continuity. Did Kurzon die on Trill or on Risa? Do Ferengi like Gold or not? Is Rom Stupid or smart? Did the Mirror universe have cloak or not? Does Sisko respect the Maquis efforts or not? Can Trill use Transporters or not?
1,IDK
2,Perhaps
3,Smart
4,Yes(klingons are idiots in the mirror)
5,A little bit
6,Yes
Captain flies away with a sovereign class starship
I always wondered about that ship,,,thanx dude!
Given how few we see of them, I like to think that after the Enterprise-C was destroyed, Starfleet panicked and re-analyzed the Ambassador class, thinking perhaps that, at first, it lost a 1-1 or 1-2 match, as in, it should've survived easily and didn't. So, they stop construction on new Ambassadors, realize it has some serious issues and they were far too hasty in pushing out massive amounts of new tech for the class, reconfigured some things, and took their sweet time in restarting production because - wait for it - someone came up with the idea that it *wasn't big enough* to fulfill its three primary missions - science, exploration, and diplomacy.
Around this time, the last vestiges of Kirk-era admirals were retired, and the peaceniks that took over after The Khitomer Conspiracy were now in full control. They wanted a family ship, a peace ship, an exploration and diplomatic vessel that could merely defend itself. Thus, after less than a dozen Ambassadors were commissioned, the Galaxy class started to take shape. Knowing that restarting Ambassador production would delay production of the Galaxy-class, Starfleet decides to stop construction of the Ambassadors, and maintain its aging fleet of Excelsiors, Constellations, Oberths, Mirandas, and the like. After all, why not? At this point (2330's), those ships could be constructed as fast as Starfleet could pick its nose, had well known, reliable tech, were "good enough" to face known threats, and could be upgraded relatively easily on the inside. Sure, the older style nacelles weren't as fast and efficient as the newer ones, but that was little consequence - Warp 9 as an emergency top speed was "fast enough" to deal with known threats, and would rarely be used, so they thought. So, why bother upgrading expensive warp nacelles to scrape out a few bare percentage points of efficiency or speed improvements?
Let's also not forget that Constitution Refits were still around, and could also be produced cheaply, easily, and could take reduced crews. Down-rated to second-rate Light Cruisers, they could still be used for exploration and science. With the reduced crew compliments, they could take on larger science units, install more scientific equipment, and be used for various "in-Federation space" science missions, while still bringing the firepower needed to deal with raiders, pirates, and some unknown threats. Mirandas down-rated to Destroyers could still perform patrol and survey missions, as well as system defense.
Why bother making more Ambassadors? They ships they had, they thought, were "good enough" until the true next generation of technology matured and was ready for deployment with the Galaxy, Nebula/Farragut, and similar classes, that would come online in the next 20-40 years?
Then, Borg.
Starfleet always seemed to give warmer, fuzzier designations to their ships. From a Klingon/Romulan perspective, they field deadly Galaxy and Sovereign-class battleships, Ambassador and Excelsior-class battlecruisers, Akira and Defiant-class attack cruisers, etc.
The NX thing was while in the testing phase.
The Excelsior was NX 2000 in ST3 but in ST6 it was NCC. so it's reasonable to assume the others do the same. (Except the Defiant probably because they were being cheap)
Defiant had an NX
I meant they didn't change it to NCC after they worked out the kinks because of cheapness :D
ahh yea, gotcha
TheDjbz. Didnt the second Defiant have an NCC? I assume the og ship was always maintained as an experimental for political reasons.
DrewLSsix the second Defiant was originally the “Sao Paolo,” and was renamed Defiant and used the OG’s registry number via “special dispensation.” The real-world reason why the OG’s number was used on the second was because the show was almost over and they didn’t want to spend the money on a new model so close to the finale.
Could someone please tell me the song that plays during the video please? It doesn't appear in the description
The Ambassador looks like The Constitution & the Galaxy had a baby. I always liked this design.
Awesome video! Liked, and a subscribed. If you haven't done so yet a video on the Standard Daedalus Class starships, and the Daedalus Refit Class starships would be awesome. They're my long time favorite starship classes.
I could see the Ambassador receiving 'refits' if this were a change to the original design to be used on subsequent hulls laid down. Much like the Flights of the Los Angeles class subs, learning the faults of the originals along with advancements in technology allowed improvements to be made to later Flights. But these changes often could not be integrated with the older boats without doing such an extensive upgrade that materials and manpower would be better put towards building a new one.
Of course, this is the Federation where stripping a Constitution class down to the skeleton and slapping new 'meat' on those bones is a sound decision.
Sure
yes
its real easy you take an angle grinder. Shave down every single wall on the ship and then tape in new walls where you need them
flyboymb When you have nanites and replicators giving you a 99% scrapping efficienty and work time decrease refits become much more common.
The best example is FtD. In that game refitting a ship equals literally destroying it and then rebuilding it.
I very much doubt that Starfleet had any kind of effective mass use of nanites given that they were really only used for medicine by Federation or pre-Federation civilizations. It wasn't until TNG that you saw any synchronized use of them by the Federation and that was more due to everybody's hated wonderboy than any dedicated research.
In any case, refitting a ship in Star Trek has never been shown to be something of that magnitude. It has been the old fashioned pulling into drydock, having stuff stripped out, and new stuff slapped on. The bridges of Federation ships are even meant to be easily replaced to enable easy upgrades. There's just nothing in canon that shows an easy process of refurbishing a starship.
Yep. And the economy of the 24th century is a non-monetary economy when things like cost and budget overruns don't apply so totally refitting older ships wouldn't be a problem.
I remember reading somewhere long ago that the Ambassador class was specifically designed to look like a natural evolutionary step from the Excelsior to the Galaxy class, even though it was designed well after the Galaxy class, to show design continuity. That's probably stating the obvious, though.
I like your semi sarcastic and serious tone it's entertaining and informative.
I do love the Ambassador Class.
Whom doesnt!?
I'm not particularly fond of the Ambassador class. Always thought that the warp engines were to squat and big looking. Their as tall as the entire saucer section it seems. Just figured that it had to do with an early and less refined design for a new set of warp coils and such...
Shame they couldn't have followed the model design that someone had laid out at the beginning of TNG, but I've always heard that they had to crash build the Ambassador model on short notice so they didn't have the time. Little did they know I think that the Ambassador would be come popular and suffer from the lack of detailing a one episode model usually gets...
It's a beautiful ship, the Galaxy Class is ugly.
Saaaame
1300 crew is ridiculous. The Galaxy had 1000, and another 200 visiting personnel. (I assume that included families. So more likely 500-800 actual crew)
It is said the excelsior had 700, the sovereign 850, so the Ambassador are more likely somewhere between 500-700 crew.
Maybe it takes more for the ship to get through? I agree its a lot in comparison..
Why? The new US Supercarriers need less crew than their predeccesors. I'd have to check, but I think they shaved off one or two thousand cremembers.
If the Ambassador has a longer range than the Excelsior and can go longer without stopping at a Starbase, more crew might be needed for maintenance. Let's say they got a new sensor array to scan subspace. The new sensor might need one to keep it adjusted and one to read out the data, that's two more people for every shift. Let's say the Galaxy Class got the newest ersion and the computer can now adjust the sensors. that's one crew member less, again, for every shift.
And remember, depending on how many shifts they have only half or a third of the crew are on active duty. If they are as humanitarian as they look, they should go with four shifts, so only a quarter of the crew is usually on duty. Unless there is an emergency of course.
And for a ship like a Galaxy to be able to function with 250 (4 shifts) to 333 (3 shifts) people is quite amazing. I agree that not every position needs to be staffed like that, but then again, if they discover a new habitable planet, not having the personal means the entire ship has to stay longer in this star system system.
I am only a mild fan of Star Trek, but I love these videos. Very entertaining.
Good point about the Ambassador not being a well fleshed out piece of Star Trek lore. But the whole era it was to have come from is not very fleshed out either. The Ambassador Class's story and the era it came from was a victim of tv show filming scheduling. Was not enough time to develop a dedicated backstory for something like the Ambassador class. I think it was just studio banking on the name Enterprise with the shock value that a totally new model would be seen in a Star Trek TNG episode. Paramount guessed right. I do want to know more about this ship class and the era it came from.
RafaleC77th The early 24th century would be cool to watch. That era seems to have a lot of war in it, particularly with the Cardassians. They won't do it, since the show would cost as much as The Expanse plus be a huge slave to continuity.
I appreciate that many of your videos don't involve the behind the scenes material. But, for this one, I think an exception could be made due to minimal amount of info there is on this ship compared to others.
Either way, good stuff.
The ambassador class is BY FAR my favorite ship. She was an INSANE jump in Tech for the time. She was the product of brutal clashes all throughout the federation. This ship is as close to a "battleship" as star trek will ever get. Yeah there's the Enterprise E, but honestly, the E is still an exploration ship. One with teeth mind you, but the C was purpose built to be powerful, gritty, and offer a heart sinking, jaw dropping presence on the battlefield
I honestly adore the Ambassador class. It looks amazing, it's powerful, and not too large. There is something about the design I love, and given the opportunity, would serve on one without hesitation.
A secondary bridge that is used just for the secondary hull is actually a pretty good idea. I mean if the regular bridge/the entire saucer section were to be destroyed/disabled then any old bridge crew could try and salvage the situation.
I always liked this ship mainly because the rounded secondary hull reminds me of the Constitution refit.
i could see that
Minor refits, a minor refit would entail swapping out console's that have the same power consumption and fittings of the previous console, not adding/removing parts of a ships hull. Even if all the sections to be fitted were prefabricated at Utopia Planitia or other shipyards across the Federation, a ship would be in dry dock for weeks.
In todays world(or better WW2 times) adding entire radar systems or adding a shitload of guns was considered "minor"
As to the "minor" Refit of the Ambassador class...It was probably just that...a Refit/Redesign of the Original...Just building all new ships to the new,updated design
One point that most followers of the canon keep bringing up is how the Klingon Empire can fight a prolonged war against anyone after Praxis was destroyed. Well, I would assume that the Klingon Empire is just that, a multi-star system empire. They likely have dozens, if not hundreds, of worlds and star systems to draw upon for raw materials. It's not outside the realm of possibility that they had the capacity to keep going.
However, according to a quick search on Memory Alpha, it was stated that the Klingons had to shift resources from military production to ecology in order to deal with the environmental fallout of Praxis's destruction. That doesn't instantly negate them as a military superpower, it just hinders them for a time. I'm sure that after they've sorted out the problems from Praxis's destruction and shifted resource allocation to colony star systems they'd once again be a military superpower.
It was mentioned in TOS-The Day of The Dove that the systems in the Klingon Empire were generally poor and as a result, the empire had to expand in order to survive.
I always thought since the TNG crew didn't intervene with the Romulans plans to manipulate the Klingons using Duras, they just formed an Klingon/Romulan alliance then overpowered the Federation. Course I had to make up that scenario because of the writers lol
"The federation isn't a military organization" look you star fleet presidents can keep saying that but you were formed because of a looming war with the Romulans then you had wars with the Klingons (twice), the Cardassians, the Dominion, and a lot of smaller conflicts to include the Romulans again and the Borg. I know you want to say your not a military but how about you make one because you've had a lot of wars in the two hundred some odd years of existing. It's not a sign of weakness, it's a sign of pattern recognition.
"B-B-B-But we're peaceful! Peaceful, we say! If we had an actual military we'd be warmongers! We just want to keep the peace!" - Starfleet (not a military organization)
Torlonus I think you mean Starfleet not the federation.
If they were wouldn't they all be like the defiant class?
They don't all have to be combat vessels. But if even one in ten ships were primarily combat focused they wouldn't have as many issues the next time a war starts.
A huge part of this is likely to be sociological. WW3 was devastating and killed 600 million people, and resulted in the post-atomic horror as well. If it wasn't for Zephram Cochrane's warp flight attracting the attention of a nearby Vulcan science vessel (something which when you think about it, was amazingly fortuitous - imagine if Cochrane's warp flight occurred a week before or after and that Vulcan ship was too far away to detect it?) and the subsequent better-part-of-a-century patronage the Vulcans made it probably would have taken centuries for humans to recover from WW3, if at all. There would be a HUGE societal aversion towards militarism, something which takes generations to fully cement itself as well - Enterprise deals with militaristic agitators in the final season who were explicitly regressive but by TNG and DS9 this is all but ancient history.
Frankly, what military would ever have the prime directive anyway?
In ACTUAL naval warships refits can include things like : turning it into an aircraft carrier, adding decks, adding dozens of aa guns, removing the guns, addming more and bigger tuns. Basically.. the ships were hulls.. everything else could and was at times completely replaced
I think the mentality behind the Ambassador was to stick it on the borders with hostile powers just to say "hey, we're here if you want to talk... or a scrap... we can do that too"
This class, like its Galaxy counterpart, can also house family members of the crew. Who in their right mind would bring their family aboard a ship if it might be used in military action, such as encounters with the Borg, Dominion, Romulans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc.?
I'm so glad I found your channel, best star trek lore ever, I agree with alot of what you say, thank God you are not some blind Uber fan who can't see past his fan boyness. Also the Ambassador class is my favorite Star Trek ship.
I aim to please ;)
Kool beans
I think this would have been an awesome premise for a prequel show with an already spoiler ending. We have this series about the Enterprise-C and it could even be a mini series with events leading up to its destruction or capture by the Romulans
I love the classic Star Trek look this class has. Like the refit, of a refit, of a refit, of the Constitution class. Wish we could have seen more of it in any or all of the series instead of the over used Excelsior class. When you think about it. The Excelsior is actually way older then it is. It holds more, better equipped, better armed, it's younger, better ship. But every time they need a second ship for something. It's usually an Excelsior class. Which I think looks like a surfboard with nacelles.
cool vid as usual. what episodes of tng does it appear in ?
Awesome.
The Ambassador class/Enterprise C has long been my all time favorite starship design. It has a really beautiful but imposing profile, combining a semi-retro aspect to its platform actually very reminiscent of the classic Constitution class, although significantly beefed up of course, along with the later features derived or evolved from the Excelsior class and obvious precursor aspects of the Galaxy.
Does the saucer section detach from the secondary Hull like the Galaxy class?
The constitution-class Enterprise was a Heavy Cruiser. is the 23rd Century The Excelsior class with a battleship, later reclassified in the 24st century is a Heavy Cruiser. the Galaxy class granted was officially classified as an exploration Cruiser, you do hear it referred to as a battleship during next Generation I found a few vacations. They had Cruisers, they had heavy Cruisers, in one of the Next Generation season 1 episodes the captain is doing a log entry and refers to the light Cruiser Drake.
In other word's the Ambassador is capable of the Nebula class.
Aesthetically, my favorite starfleet ship. Very smooth and simple design.
It definetly looks nice..
This one is one of my favorites
glad your comp is back up!
Can someone please help me find the music from his intro?
what episode and scene was it seen in enterprise?
The Ambassador class starship is one of my all-time favorites!
lol, Note all the sarcasm. That was great. Thanks for the laughs.
Minor refits for a civilization that can pull a anything from hot tea to a bloody gun out of what is essentially the fridge/microwave combo in every cabin include anything not made out of fancy pants material. Oh and apperently they have industrial class replicators
Lore I love your sarcasm in your videos lol
I aim to please
Lore Reloaded is there a lore reason why in nemesis we didn't see the Borg armor that Voyager had and its last episode on the Enterprise?
The pez Dispenser. That a good one. The best one yet.
I try
Lore Reloaded no I actually like it. That is pretty good.
Lore Reloaded can't wait for the next live video.
Your intro reminds me of the Mechwar video games.
While the bridge being at the top of the saucer is what you see in all the series and movies, to my mind, it would make for sense to locate the bridge at the front of the secondary hull, just behind the big dish. Depending on which shows you watch, or books you read, this is either the sensor dish, or the deflector dish. My money is on sensor, as deflectors were frequently described as a grid which ran along the hull. At least, if my memory is at all accurate in that regard. I frequently find things are not as I seem to remember them to be. As one for instance, James Kirk never said "Beam me up Scotty." On the other hand, Dr. McCoy did say "I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!" and Kirk said "You're a Doctor, there's a patient, that's an order." ("The Devil in the Dark")
But . . . The Ambassador Class is from the late TOS Era where they still wore Wrath of Khan outfits... Thus Heavy Cruiser would be accurate ...
Even Picard's favorite ( _and one of my favorites_ ) the Stargazer of the Constellation class *was* a Heavy Cruiser.
1:40 - Just because they were allied with the Federation does not mean they were outmatched. Remember in Star Trek VI, one of the reasons Spock and the other high ranking ones even suggest Peace with the Klingons is precisely to avoid a costly war, which is precisely what Chang and others wanted since becoming one with the Federation was illogical in the minds of many. How could you be friends with people who conspire to stab you in the back?
_The undiscovered country from whose bourn
_
_No traveler returns, puzzles the will
_
_And makes us rather bear those ills we have
_
_Than fly to others that we know not of?
_
The fact that Klingons would be underdogs in this war would just fuel their efforts of war and their desire for expansion and glory to the point of them fighting with desperate ferocious tactics that Starfleet of that era, simply might not had won, or even if they did, it'd been a costly one. Now take that into account for whenever the Enterprise-C events occured, where they've lost their flagship, they have a few Excelsiors flying around, but Kirk is not around anymore, and many other great Captains whom seen war are simply not present anymore. And then you have these angry Klingons, who had time to build up ships on other planets and the likes over the years... Yeah, Yeah they could very easily attack and win over the Federation who had gone from being military - exploration, to exploration - peaceful. Which in TNG days would evolve into Pacifist completely.
3:44 - You whine too much. You are not a Starfleet Engineer. There's a reason they even say in DS9 " _One of those famed Starfleet Engineers that can turn rocks into a Replicator._ " or something like that. Consider the following: They have parts, knowledge of the ships, they draw up schematics for it, they rip their hair out, and then they get to work refitting them. Need a bigger Hangar? Okay, cut those sections here, rewire this there, and so forth. Move the pylons for the nacelles? Use these spare sparts, rewire it like this and OH GOD WHO LEFT THE WARP CORE RUNNING?! And so forth. For all we know, the ships are made to be changed over time and thus have a lot of open spaces in them allowing to be cut open as needed.
7:25 - You did not show any STO. Most disappointing.
- - - - -
Personally, and obviously, I see the Ambassador class as the bridging point between the old Federation that was always ready to fight, and the new Federation that always sought peace first and foremost. The name Ambassador even brings up ideas of the episode " _Journey to Babel_ ", while it is a Heavy Cruiser, it's need to defend itself is paramount but it is first and foremost, a peacekeeping ship and the one to have important delegates on. It incorporates those aspects of the Constitution class into the new era which would become defined by the Galaxy class ( _where they also made it out of paper instead of proper materials because the Galaxy is clearly a glass cannon_ ).
It's a well-designed Starfleet ship that had the luggage of the past along with hopes for the future.
It's a shame it's not appreciated more.
Very well done.
8:25 Yeah, a war ship would be named after him. Still have nightmares about Civ games against Gandhi.
The thing that made 'minor refits' click for me was when the cerritos shed it's outer hull plating in lower decks, the hull plaiting is dumb sheets of metal that can just easily made.
federation ships have a lot of gubbins inside and outside the pressure hull which dosen't need to be thick, the structural elements can be easily swapped out after depressurising the ship.
The nature of them being space craft means a lot can be moved around by essentially just changing piping and cabling and it makes sense of federation ships to be capable of this.
The edge the federation has always had is technology, so it makes a lot for them to design space frames to have detachability for major structure elements for refits.
As far as I remember other alpha quadrant powers dont design craft to be capable of these refits as they design craft around specific tech or doctrine from certain tech.
The closest analogy I can think of is battleships where the plating for the main belt (external ones) is removable and replaceable but replacing the engines takes almost the same amount of time to do as building a new ship. The Italians were the only ones historically I can remember that actually changed around engines with four of them including Duilio, to change from coal to oil for more speed - the italians needed speed to be able to pick what battles they'd fight against a superior foe (Britain). Without those engine refits, those ships would of been useless in the Mediterranean. Turrets tend to get replaced more commonly on battleships as being the most modular by being a drop in part (literally).
If anything, while it 'looks' to the eye to be a minor refit, it's minor compared to how far federation ships can and have been modified. They literally take elements like warp nacelles or saucers from old ships and slap them on others in completely different configurations like the freedom class, which I hate. It makes sense historically from an earth standpoint in terms of trends and that modularity may be why earth style designs rose to the forefront in the federation with that modularity lending itself to highly reconfigurable testbeds. I'd likely also bet local militia ships produced by member species are produced to maintain their independent ship contracting companies knowledge/active so they have some autonomy and or jobs similar to nasa's USA wide contracting practices. Taking parts from one ship to use on another of a different class has real world precedent also, see HMS Marshal Ney monitor.
So the hull plating can be removed pretty quickly, the pressure hull is likely just as removable, the major parts are all interchangeable across classes and replacing pipes, conduits, wiring, welding and such can be all automated with worker bee's etc etc. I think the main differentiator beetween minor and major refit is how much of the ship do you need to depressurise. Because they do evacuate crew from these ships during refitting and not just for those glory shots when they come back with a fantastic pan across the hull. Given a lot of saucer decks vertically stack mostly similarly, you can slide in the corridor layout then detach and reattach each room beetween floors in likely half an hour each (an automated) to add a 'middle floor'. engineering hulls seem harder to work with which why they are done away with on some designs for faster refits / assembly.
"That's beter". How did Janeway ever graduate from the Academy with spelling like that?
the ambassador class has always been my favorite federation ship, it was the 70's muscle car of the enterprises. just the flowing curves and speedlines. it was also my most used ship besides the brel bird of prey in the days of star trek online.
7:34 Ad? So that's what's supposed to be going on when a logo suddenly pops up all of a sudden? I was wondering about that.
Enterprise? What episode?
@lorereloaded when was it in the Enterprise series ????
I would like to see a redesign of the Ambassador class. My problem with it IS that it looks like a middle child between the Excelsior-class and Galaxy-class starships. All other Enterprises look unique and have their own style while maintaining an obvious line of progression.
Maybe it's just that Yesterday's Enterprise was the first TNG I saw, or that I was a Tasha Yar fangirl back in grade school, but the Ambassador class has always been a favorite. Of my small eaglemoss collection, the model is definitely the best, which is nice. As far as actual depictions onscreen, it really moves in Emissary, and I find it really interesting to hear a Federation cruiser praised for maneuverability. Also Captain Garrett is amazing.
The NX registry is applied to "First of the class" ships on a temporary basis. Once the ship passes out of the prototype phase, the NX registry is dropped for the normal NCC registry.
Starfleet doesnt do this uniformally but i agree thats the standard consideration
Yesterday enterprise episode was AWESOME
0:48 Well it's obviously the Federation equivalent of decking a battlecruiser with guns on top of guns and calling it "peacemaker".
We can assume there was some leap in Federation technology in the early 24th century, as well as shift toward military priorities. Remember the Constitution Class Enterprise was a "heavy" Cruiser in its time, and subsequently dwarfed by the advanced Excelsior Class by 2284. But by 2340, the Ambassador Class ship has been intruduced rendering these old designations obsolete being absolutely gargantuan in size relative to the Excelsior. There must've been some advancement that took place in that time to make the super-massive cruisers of the late 24th century viable and desirable.
Which episode in Enterprise? I just finished rewatching all the seasons of Enterprise and don't remember seeing an Ambassador class ship...
The only possible scene I can think of is when Archer is pulled into the future to witness a battle between the Federation and Sphere Builders. But I don't recall seeing one, will need to watch it again more closely.
Almost every ship should have a backup bridge... unless you are Terran Empire or the like that worries more about your own people than external enemies...
Question, what episode of "Enterprise" did the ambassador show up?
I think this ship needs massive lore recon so that it makes sense.
where is the BGM from?
The Enterprise-C bridge was the same stock bridge they've used in previous episodes.
BTW, they use the NX registry only for experimental prototypes that haven't been formally commissioned. Once the vessel passes its trials, it's commissioned and given its dedication plaque and NCC registry. The change to Excelsior's registry proves this.
The use of the nx is inconsistent in Starfleet at best
My personal feeling is that they've tried to keep everything straight(ish), but it mostly depends on the writing team in place at the time. The only canon ships that have had visible NX registry prefixes is Archer's Enterprise (ENT), the Columbia (ENT), the Excelsior (STIII), the Defiant (DS9), the Prometheus (VOY), and the Dauntless (VOY), and it wasn't even a real Starfleet ship. Seems pretty consistent to me.
454 "stayed consistent w/SF bridge designs " IOW they built grenades into the consoles so red shirts can be used in SFs interactive damage report system!
A little foot note.
Prototype ships that are testing new technology used the prefix NX as shown in Star Trek with the Excelsior and it's Transwarp drive and then when the ship is commissioned into service it is changed to the normal NCC.
Now in the case with the Ambassador class it probably was not testing anything new in the technology.
We also see this example again with the Defiant and it's phaser cannon and probably quantum torpedoe system. Having a NX.
That is why the Ambassador being a normal ship progression not having a NX prefix.
Holy hell that "direct" quote from the writers made me laugh out loud. Well done.
I aim to please
Given that the destruction of Praxis would have been at least 50 years prior to Narendra III, it's reasonable to conclude roughly two generations could have allowed for a recovery by the Klingon Empire, as well as a departure from any goodwill gained. The refit thing... Yeah, that's fair.
Non military vessels can be cruisers. It's quite common.
I always wanted to see more of this ship in the series. You would think this would be a diplomacy ship and not a war ship.
It would have been interesting
Revan. Thats probably why we never saw much of it.... it was off doing the boring stuff.
peace through superior firepower
First time we hear about the Ambassador class was in Conspiracy, where one of the captains was about to tell Picard something before it blew up. I get the impression between that episode and Yesterday's Enterprise that it was an older flagship type. In the 2340s it was top of the line testbed ship with lots of experimental technologies like the phaser arrays and new neon nacelle design, but by the 60s it was basically a much larger, more difficult to produce Excelsior class.