Pre did not get boxed in, as described by Mr Southerland, when he ran in Munich's 5000 meter final. He simply hit the wall. Bowerman's strategy was that Pre was to follow David Bedford. Well, the race went at a pedestrian pace for the first 2 miles. By the time Pre reacted with 4 laps to go (upon realizing that Bedford was not in it) the kickers were ready to take charge. Had Pre defied Bowerman's strategy and taken off earlier he could have finished 1st or 2nd. Bowerman made a tactical mistake.
Sutherland did a most excellent job pet-raying Bill Bowerman., I know the story is not 100% correct, but what great movie is? The acting that was done in this movie was on key. Donald will always be a asset a important person of our generation and the past.
Not when you are running twice the distance. Pre was just throwing the 4:00 minute number in the air. At the end he cracked something like a 4:03 in the last mile of the 5000-meter final and he still did not medal.
To be honest the issue was on Pre, not on Viren. Ian Stewart, who got the bronze in the 5000 final in Munich outdashing Pre in the last 20 meters, said that Prefontaine told him he was going to run the last mile in 4 minutes. Stewart revealed later that he was capable of doing the same thing and that he knew of 4 others in that final who could also run the last mile in 4 minutes. What we have here is a case of inexperience. Pre seldom competed against Europeans and that cost him dearly.
Pre didn't even discover John altitude training until the Spring of he year he died, when he and Shorter spent 2 weeks in CO. That helped so much that he was within 10ths of his 5k record the day he died, even though is was very early in the season ( they peak late Summer). Viren was great and had tons of heart, but it's been established by former teammates hundreds of times that they doped. It's a dangerous procedure, saved only for the most important events. Look at his times and record in
Whether blood doping was legal or not doesn't matter. If he did it, it gave him an advantage. I think it should be legal anyway because it is just technology changing the sport. Like wearing different type of flat from 1970-2008. But since Pre never did it, it gave viren an advantage. So who knows what would have happened had either both been at a level playing field. either both used or both did't. Also pre was a hell of a lot younger than Viren, and age does matter.
Ian Stewart, Emile Puttemans, Miruts Yifter, David Bedford and Lasse Viren all had run 13:20 to 13:30 5000-meters (about 4:20 per mile and, except for Bedford, all of them kickers). In the 10000-meter final in those same Olympics, the 5 top runners finished the last mile around 4:10 (including fellow American Frank Shorter). You have to understand one thing about Steve Prefontaine. As many American and NCAA records he broke, he never broke a world record. Shorter was also screwed by the AAU.
He was not the best distance runner ever to live, he was very good and had he lived longer he would have busted some sick times. But his pr at the trials back in 72 wouldn't even make the A standard for the Olympics now. He has the trials record still but that only because the trials are now just a purely tactical race.
I am not talking about him running now, I was comparing his fastest 5k time to the olympic A standard now. The fastest time Pre ever ran is slower than the 2008 Olympic A standard. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of Steve Prefontaine, and am saddened by the fact that the world will never get to see what might have been.
I agree to a point, but if he had the modern Nike shoes instead of running on a leather slab, rubber tracks, and could devote all his time to training by going professional and getting paid to run like modern athletes instead of working multiple jobs to try to make ends meet, then I think things would have been different. Is he greatest of all time? Certainly no. But he would have been a lot better. Honestly, I think track and field before 1990 can't be compared to what came afterward as far as times, and the track and field since 2012 or so has made it hard to compare with the two decades prior. The technological and medical advantages are just impossible to fairly compare. And let's not even mention the commonplace nature of doping these days.
Viren was even more boxed in with 200 meters to go and was able to scrape through... seen the tape a thousand times... Pre had room, but lacked a kick... he should have forgotten about Bedford and should have picked up the pace with 6 (rather than 4) laps to go
well no shit! if he was still alive he would be in is 50's rite now. all that stress he put on his knees for all those years he would have been done running in his late 40's even earlier
His performance Olympics vs. EVERYTHING else is probably greater than any other athlete in history. Why? World Class athletes ( who are clean) don't go from average international competitor to 4 time Gold Medalist and World record holder in a matter of months, and back to average. They just don't. Show me one other example??
It's not both ways; you need to develop a better understanding of history. US athletes had no organizing structure and no awareness of, or access to, PEDS doping, or most of the leading nutrition medicine, training, etc. Pre was on food stamps and could not have afforded them even if he knew of them. it was a different era and the US athletes were truly amateurs and left to their own devices until a few weld before the Olympics, and even then it was spartan existence.
Yes it was always that way. It was brought up in the movie how the foreigners could just train and didn’t have to worry about working to survive plus training
4:03 and 4:10 that is another huge difference. 4:00 and 4:03 not that big for a 5k but 7 seconds in a mile is huge, since they were all pretty lose during that last mile. I Would say that the miles for Viren, Stewart,Gammoudi, and Prefontaine all ran fast last miles. All probably faster than 4:10 but if pre had run his 4:00 mile he would have won the race, probably. It was a failure of the athlete to perform what he said he was going to do. End of story.
Did Stewart say or did he prove it, cause those are 2 completely different things. I agree that pre didn't run against the good europeans enough, but the AAU was shiting on him. What could he have done about that.
oh for God's sake, Donald Sutherland talking about track and field. It's like listening to Richard Petty talk about cooking. Prefontaine might have been better if he ran someplace else. Bowerman and Dellinger certainly were great coaches but so were alot of other coaches. I give the credit to Prefontaine that he was succesful despite Oregon.. Oregon had an aura for runners, it drew the best, lots of coaches could have been successful in that situation.
![Donald Sutherland • Interview (A Dry White Season"/Apartheid/Marlon Brando) 1989 [RITY Archive]](/img/n.gif)
I know you made this comment years ago, but you’re absolutely right. Whoever decided to cast Donald Sutherland as Bowerman deserved a raise.
I love Donald Sutherland; he is such a great actor and this movie was so good
I also think it’s so cool that his son is a great actor too. There’s something sweet about that.
Pre did not get boxed in, as described by Mr Southerland, when he ran in Munich's 5000 meter final. He simply hit the wall. Bowerman's strategy was that Pre was to follow David Bedford. Well, the race went at a pedestrian pace for the first 2 miles. By the time Pre reacted with 4 laps to go (upon realizing that Bedford was not in it) the kickers were ready to take charge. Had Pre defied Bowerman's strategy and taken off earlier he could have finished 1st or 2nd. Bowerman made a tactical mistake.
Sutherland did a most excellent job pet-raying Bill Bowerman., I know the story is not 100% correct, but what great movie is? The acting that was done in this movie was on key. Donald will always be a asset a important person of our generation and the past.
I know you made this comment years ago, but you’re absolutely right. Whoever decided to cast Donald Sutherland as Bowerman deserved a raise.
Great video love hearing about my hero along with them man the helped him.
Rest in peace Conleth hill
And now Rip DS
Not when you are running twice the distance. Pre was just throwing the 4:00 minute number in the air. At the end he cracked something like a 4:03 in the last mile of the 5000-meter final and he still did not medal.
To be honest the issue was on Pre, not on Viren. Ian Stewart, who got the bronze in the 5000 final in Munich outdashing Pre in the last 20 meters, said that Prefontaine told him he was going to run the last mile in 4 minutes. Stewart revealed later that he was capable of doing the same thing and that he knew of 4 others in that final who could also run the last mile in 4 minutes. What we have here is a case of inexperience. Pre seldom competed against Europeans and that cost him dearly.
Pre didn't even discover John altitude training until the Spring of he year he died, when he and Shorter spent 2 weeks in CO. That helped so much that he was within 10ths of his 5k record the day he died, even though is was very early in the season ( they peak late Summer). Viren was great and had tons of heart, but it's been established by former teammates hundreds of times that they doped. It's a dangerous procedure, saved only for the most important events.
Look at his times and record in
Whether blood doping was legal or not doesn't matter. If he did it, it gave him an advantage. I think it should be legal anyway because it is just technology changing the sport. Like wearing different type of flat from 1970-2008. But since Pre never did it, it gave viren an advantage. So who knows what would have happened had either both been at a level playing field. either both used or both did't. Also pre was a hell of a lot younger than Viren, and age does matter.
Ian Stewart, Emile Puttemans, Miruts Yifter, David Bedford and Lasse Viren all had run 13:20 to 13:30 5000-meters (about 4:20 per mile and, except for Bedford, all of them kickers). In the 10000-meter final in those same Olympics, the 5 top runners finished the last mile around 4:10 (including fellow American Frank Shorter). You have to understand one thing about Steve Prefontaine. As many American and NCAA records he broke, he never broke a world record. Shorter was also screwed by the AAU.
Well little-man, if Pre was blood doping like all of these other cheats, he would've smashed all the World Records from the 5K- Marathon!~~~
He was not the best distance runner ever to live, he was very good and had he lived longer he would have busted some sick times. But his pr at the trials back in 72 wouldn't even make the A standard for the Olympics now. He has the trials record still but that only because the trials are now just a purely tactical race.
I am not talking about him running now, I was comparing his fastest 5k time to the olympic A standard now. The fastest time Pre ever ran is slower than the 2008 Olympic A standard. Don't get me wrong I am a fan of Steve Prefontaine, and am saddened by the fact that the world will never get to see what might have been.
I agree to a point, but if he had the modern Nike shoes instead of running on a leather slab, rubber tracks, and could devote all his time to training by going professional and getting paid to run like modern athletes instead of working multiple jobs to try to make ends meet, then I think things would have been different. Is he greatest of all time? Certainly no. But he would have been a lot better. Honestly, I think track and field before 1990 can't be compared to what came afterward as far as times, and the track and field since 2012 or so has made it hard to compare with the two decades prior. The technological and medical advantages are just impossible to fairly compare.
And let's not even mention the commonplace nature of doping these days.
Viren was even more boxed in with 200 meters to go and was able to scrape through... seen the tape a thousand times... Pre had room, but lacked a kick... he should have forgotten about Bedford and should have picked up the pace with 6 (rather than 4) laps to go
well no shit! if he was still alive he would be in is 50's rite now. all that stress he put on his knees for all those years he would have been done running in his late 40's even earlier
4:10 and 4:00 thats a big difference
His performance Olympics vs. EVERYTHING else is probably greater than any other athlete in history. Why? World
Class athletes ( who are clean) don't go from average international competitor to 4 time Gold
Medalist and World record holder in a matter of months, and back to average. They just don't. Show me one other example??
Viren Was doping anyway, so it doesn't matter, he cheated technically. Too bad you can't go back and run the race without Viren in it.
It's not both ways; you need to develop a better understanding of history. US athletes had no organizing structure and no awareness of, or access to, PEDS doping, or most of the leading nutrition medicine, training, etc. Pre was on food stamps and
could not have afforded them even if he knew of them. it was a different era and the US athletes were truly amateurs and left to their own devices until a few weld before the Olympics, and even then it was spartan existence.
Dead On!
Yes it was always that way. It was brought up in the movie how the foreigners could just train and didn’t have to worry about working to survive plus training
4:03 and 4:10 that is another huge difference. 4:00 and 4:03 not that big for a 5k but 7 seconds in a mile is huge, since they were all pretty lose during that last mile. I Would say that the miles for Viren, Stewart,Gammoudi, and Prefontaine all ran fast last miles. All probably faster than 4:10 but if pre had run his 4:00 mile he would have won the race, probably. It was a failure of the athlete to perform what he said he was going to do. End of story.
Ya, they were all blood doping you fucking loser! Go get a life Loser!
Did Stewart say or did he prove it, cause those are 2 completely different things. I agree that pre didn't run against the good europeans enough, but the AAU was shiting on him. What could he have done about that.
oh for God's sake, Donald Sutherland talking about track and field. It's like listening to Richard Petty talk about cooking. Prefontaine might have been better if he ran someplace else. Bowerman and Dellinger certainly were great coaches but so were alot of other coaches. I give the credit to Prefontaine that he was succesful despite Oregon.. Oregon had an aura for runners, it drew the best, lots of coaches could have been successful in that situation.
Viren did not dope. You have no prove, so just drop it please, or face the fact you are sore about seeing your favorite runner lose to Viren.
this guy knows nothing about running.....