Note to people: the less something is worn the more likely it is to survive. And the smaller it is, the more impossible it is to remake into more fashionable things. Therefore, this dress wasnt worn much, and couldnt be altered to fit newer fashions, likely the reason for its survival :))
It is just fabric! Transforming old clothes into today's fashion is good for the planet. There is absolutely no sense in making clothes that wont be ever used by anyone. What a waste..
Usually I’d agree but let me show you a new perspective “There’s no point keeping this painting, we might as well paint a new one over it” “There’s no point in leaving this sculpture, let’s re-carve it” I agree that most pieces from the last century are completely cool to do up, but a lot of the much older clothes are pieces of fashion history and need to be considered art. Many are in museums already. Some things are just too cool and too old to repurpose.
@@totallynotbatman6121 no, im saying that most people had their old clothes altered every year to every decade when the fashions changed, i dont mean now lol
Based on the skirt silhouette it is very late 1860’s to mid 1870’s. You can see the skirt is trained in the back, not gathered evenly around as it would be to go over a hoop skirt in the 1850s and early-mid 1860’s. Based on the drop shoulder it is from before the late 1870’s though so your guess is pretty close
What's very sad for me to think is... I bet it was somebody who is very young when they got married, since most 18+ young women/women have at least a 24" waist. For her waist to be that small, I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually a child 😢 since fat deposits at the hips don't become very noticeable until after puberty. Even when I was 86.5 lbs at 5'3" my waist was bigger than 20". 😢 ***For context I struggled with drugs that's why. I've been clean for 5yrs in August tho!
@@xdani_thethinkingnekocongrats on sobriety!!! I’m thinking it could be from a younger girl but at the same time, I work in memory care/assisted living and there are some veryyy petite women there. Currently I have a resident who is not even 5’ and she wears child size clothing so it could be from an adult too. There are some very small people in this world 😂
@@xdani_thethinkingnekocongratulations on the upcoming milestone! 🎉 ❤ I wonder, would that silhouette be achievable through tightlacing? Perhaps the owner wasn't that young 😢
The wearer was probably a young teenage girl. That was the age most women married at back then. It explains why so many vintage wedding dresses were SO tiny.
For people who dont know. People weren't "smaller back then" This is survivorship bias, the clothing survived in such good condition because people grew out of them. Which is the same reason you dont often find larger sizes, because the larger clothing was worn to death. These extants are really good for reproductions though as you can get accurate patterns from them. I hope you put it in an archival box to protect it
@emro164 No, probably they were not smaller back then this waist size would have been achieved with a corset, which is why the waist is so small. That's the reason why you can't sometimes fit into historical clothes without historical garments, especially because clothes were made with your proportions and would have been measured while wearing those garments .
Wow, I've never commented on here before. I just wanted to say Gabi that you're the reason I started wearing and shopping for vibtage clothes, and I've really come to love it. My wallet, on the other hand, does not😅.
That's what I was thinking. Gross. Don't @ me, I don't care about your explaination. I've thought of the same things you have and I don't agree. That's it.
omg this reminds me of when my grandfather let me try on my late grandma's wedding dress🥺 she was 19 and he was 18. we lost him last year so now they're together again wherever they may be. he was very tall and my grandma was very short, so it was always a joke in the family that her shortness skipped a generation since my mom is slightly taller than average, and well. im 4'11" and done growing. i remember my mom and aunt were helping clean when my aunt brought down my grandma's wedding dress from the attic, and we were all laughing at how tiny it was and how it'd probably fit me, i was 14 at the time and it fit like a glove it was funny and bittersweet at the same time. sorry for rambling, i don't remember much of my grandma since she passed away when i was 4, but my grandpa was my world and i always felt safest and most loved at his house. im still trying to cope with how to live without him here, and i just want to do everything i can to keep his memory alive
@@noahchopson7136 I do not think obesity is the norm now by any means, and if you look at photos from the 19th century you will find many hefty people pictured. Big Bill Taft was not the only large man in his time!
A few things: 1. Yes people were smaller back then, but a 20 inch waist is smaller than an US 00 size. Some people are just small. This is also one dress not thousands giving us a representation of the average adult woman in the 1860s. 2. The everyday corset was still something you could move around and work in, but corsets did cinch in the waist. You could comfortably and temporarily lose some width with a corset, and this was a special occasion so I wouldn't rule out tight lacing. 3. Smaller clothes survive because people shared clothes more frequently. You can more easily take in someone's larger dress to fit a smaller body. You can't so easily do the opposite. Again, not saying that the people were not on average smaller back then, but a 20 inch waist was not the norm. 4. Unless you were a member of the nobility, you got married in your 20s. Everyday people were not getting married at 13.
You have to remember how younger girls were married back then. 13 or 14 was normal. Also, no processed or fast food/hard labor from childhood. Also, ppl were smaller in general.
@@notconvincedgranny6573Corsets don't really cinch you in that much. At most, without tight lacing (which people knew was dangerous), you can get your waist measurement down 2-3 inches smaller. However, that works better when you have a lot of fat there for the corset to move around. If you're already tiny, a corset isn't gonna do that much to cinch you. I'm guessing it was either a very slim person or a child who wore the dress
Hello everyone Note to everyone that says the dress is tiny because it was worn by a teenager: it's the 1850s and this dress is clearly an example of western fashion. Marriage under 17 in western society in the 19th century was not common. In fact if you look at statistics, in some places the average age of a first marriage had decreased (I can't remember the exact stats or the website but something along the lines of an average of 27 in the 1890s and 24 in the 2000s in France i believe). The dress is actually maybe not a wedding dress. Although lighter colours, especially white were popularised by queen victoria as wedding colours after she wor white to her wedding in 1840, you could also wear white in other contexts. To me, this is a quite fancy dress for an occasion, made for a teenager from a upper middle class family. Either the teenager died and they didn't want to repurpose the dress, or she simply grew out of it and decided she'd save it for later and never actually did. If it is a wedding dress, then it might be a rare case of very young marriage, or just a tiny lady that grew out of that pretty fast because the dress isn't altered. Also i can't see the fabric very well, but if it's a lighter fabric it was probably a summer dress, which were usually lighter coloured to keep you cool. Edit: it was in this video i was too lazy to check the sources but if you care (and speak French) you can ua-cam.com/video/ChZCwdml-rU/v-deo.htmlsi=ct0dgzKYgpN5NYVC
I was born in 1943 and when I was a child I knew many older women who were born in the 19th century and most of them were short. My grandmother, born 1883, was 5' 4". My mother, b. 1915, considered herself very tall at 5' 6". When we were shopping she would automatically go to the "Tall" section of the clothing and I would have to drag her to the "Average."
I have a wedding gown from around 1890 that is a 18 inch waist. 12 inch neck,13 inch shoulders. It is a cathedral train in satin and lace,actual working buttons on mesh. No label,so it could be homemade.
People are so adamant no one has ever created a small waist by a corset but these people were likely just as vain as every other generation and they lived in corsets, from a young age, so they could have created smaller waistlines simply by wearing one all the time and tightening it extra for an event without too much effort. Also people were sick more, so a lean build is more likely. Not just from famine.
I once bought a family friend's entire record collection from his youth. The records were stored in a garage so I had to clean them up individually and I went through each and every one to see if they came with posters and other goodies. In some of the 200 records that I went through I found cards from birthdays, love notes from high school sweethearts, and group photos from when he played football in high school. I was so glad that I was the one who bought the collection so that I could return the mementos to him. Moral of the story: always check pockets and records when you buy something because you never know what you'll find. if you find mementos and you can give them back please do it it'll make their day!
Some people are just small... not necessarily a teenager. I had a naturally 23 inch waist at age 25. I was biking everywhere for grad school. So, the small size does not always directly correlate to a young age.
It has a 20 inch waist because it’s meant to be worn with a corset. So a women with a natural 24 inch waist can corset and fit in the dress, since corsets take in an average of 4 inches.
My mother had an 18 inch waist when she got married 1959. I could wear her dress when I was 21. I did fetch down a skirt from the same period, it just about fastened around my leg. I blame 30 years of office work.
My mum was tiny, my daughter was 12 when she wore it...by the time she got married, although a modern day 10 (Australian...I think that's a 2 or something in USA??) Anyway, although she looked very slim, she could no longer fit in it. They were small back in 1950
Wow. My waist is 23.5" and the absolute smallest it could ever be is 23". It's already not easy to find pants and jeans; how did you find anything to fit you? Also are you and your mom very petite too? It's just crazy to think of such tiny waists on grown women...
@delevator8755 actually sge is 5' 4" I'm 5'7. And I learnt to sew. Luckily in my late teens, Wallis, started to sell UK size 8 which meant a tuck instead of a big dart. Yep I was tall and very skinny, my school nickname was Daddy Long Legs for a while.
@@delevator8755My waist is like 19-22 and it's because I was malnourished as a child. As for how I find clothes, I basically have to buy from exclusively lolita fashion (Which is fine since I like classic lolita, but expensive) Basically... Buying overseas is the only option. Nothing fits me in America.
Girl I thought I was subscribed I love your videos, and you keep popping up on my feed. Your passion for vintage fashion brightens my day and makes me miss my grandma. She sewed my clothes when I was a kid
@@cool1594 your best bet for losing any sort of body mass would be a healthy diet and regular exercise of both cardio and weight lifting. But the biggest factor is going to be your bone structure. A narrow rib cage and narrow hips with a longer torso is going to be likely to achieve such a small waist in a healthy and natural manner. If you don't have the bone structure to support a 20" waist, it won't happen naturally. Also, diet and exercise shouldn't be done only to achieve a 20" waist necessarily, but to achieve a healthy body for a healthy life. ❤
If it is a wedding dress it's incredibly plain, wedding dresses of the western world between 1860-1880s we're very decorated, I would guess it was just a plain off-white dress, party wear most likely
Mmmmm I agree it is very plain for a silk wedding dress of the 1870s to 1880s, but I see no reason it couldn't be a perfectly stylish mid 1860s to early 1870s look for a morning wedding (as opposed to an evening one where a lower neckline could be expected to be accompanied with more frou frou)
@xxarianahiltonxx5116 If they were poor, it would be more typical for a new dress to be made of wool or cotton, likely in a colour or print, and worn and altered beyond the day of the wedding until it fell apart. It's possible someone could just scrape together enough money to afford silk, and never find enough opportunities to wear it beyond the one day, and/or keep the dress for sentimental value, but I would associate the condition of the dress with a more high-status wearer.
I’m a board member at a historical society and I’m in charge of the clothing collection. I love your videos but items of clothing before 1950 really shouldn’t be worn as the oils on your skin will deteriorate the fabric faster. It’s best to keep those stored away is acid free paper and boxes
Try it again with an 1860s style corset. It doesn't have to be tightly laced. A properly worn corset shapes the body and it might make all the difference here.
I think it gets more appreciation in private hands than packed away in a museum storeroom. It may be difficult to believe, but there are quite a few dresses of that age around.
this is so cool! since this is around the time that white became popular as a wedding dress which Queen Victoria popularized when she married Prince Albert in 1840 so the fact that it survived this long is amazing!
I'm always excited to see dresses with such small waists because I once modeled a wedding dress for a show with a 19 inch waist. And it was so pretty. Though no one wanted it because of the small waist, people still thought it was amazing to see it worn again. The owner especially loved seeing it worn again.
@@bethanywood5564 I kind of wonder why they assume it's a wedding dress? Isn't it possible for it to just be a normal dress, maybe for a particularly tall young teen?
Everybody complaining about not being able to fit into this dress is not thinking of the more Sinister fact that this is probably the wedding dress of a child bride
that’s a possibility!! but due to medical advancements and other cultural stuff at this time, people were generally able to marry later than adolescent-age, as was seen in centuries before, and as is often stereotyped. avg marrying age in the 1860s for women was ~22 yrs. courting started earlier, but often marriage would be delayed until the early 20s. it’s more likely the garment survived simply due to survivorship bias bc the waist was so tiny. i mean, adults *can* achieve a 20 inch waist, it’s just HARD and really all up to genetics and life. my grandmother had a 20 inch waist when she was married in 1963, at 18. so it’s not impossible. just very difficult. she was also impoverished, overworked, and genetically very small which is how she was so tiny.
@@dorothywillis1 how is it not likely? Underage girls have been getting married for centuries, and it still happens till this day. The only reason it happens less is because we have laws in place to prevent it.
@@aa-dj5zk This dress belonged to someone who lived in 19th century United States. I agree that in the past girls frequently married young -- at least younger than we now think is appropriate. My own great-grandmother had her first child at the age of 16. But that is very different from what I understand the term "child bride" to mean. To me a child bride is younger than approximately 13 years old. This has not been at all common in any part of the United States at any time. So I think it is improbable that the dress belonged to a child bride. I hope I have explained my reasoning clearly.
Have my mom's wedding dress - not a style or size I would ever wear but the fabric is awesome. Repurposing it into layetts for premies and infants that passed away
Vintage clothing dealer of 18 years here. This is my career first off. Second off, some off you act like experts when you are not. It's extremely common to see an adult piece with a 20" waist from that time period. Shoes were max 3" wide as well. Our bones were not supplemented with calcium the way we have had the last few decades. Average waist I see for Edwardian or Victorian is 24". From the looks, I'd actually date this to 1900-1910 but I'd have to see in person. It's not impossible to be earlier though. Please don't comment that this is a child's dress or that the corsets didn't cinch waists, these are incorrect claims and insulting to my work.
For dating, I'd need to see closures, hem, seams,material skirt max width and any boning. Could be around 1870s or early 1900s. Anyway, this is a fun find.
Ooh that's really interesting what you say about the early 1900s! My interests are historical re-enactment of the 1890s and early medieval so I don't get to see so many original garments as someone who specialises in antiques! Thanks for sharing your professional point of view, particularly the points about having to take a closer look to properly date the dress. Based on the cut alone and my current level of knowledge, my money's on late 1860s/early 1870s :) but I would be interested to learn more as the early 1900s are starting to grow on me. I feel your pain here in the comments section, I recently had an in person conversation with someone who owned a very similar dress to the one in this video but in a striped cotton with box pleating all around the skirt and the cartridge pleats just in the back and she swore blind it was from the 1880s!! I asked how she knew that, thinking the dress might have unusual provenance and she said she knew because of the fashionable style!! I was as polite as possible without outright agreeing with her! She thought very highly of herself and her collection and put down other people all through our conversation too.
I think overall it's nice that people are moving away from the myth that all women from 18th through to beginning of 20th century 'tightlaced' all the time and couldn't breathe or move etc. That the fashionable shape was also achieved by padding and that corsets don't *need* to reduce your waist measurement to give you the fashionable shape is really useful information for reenactors and costumiers. But methinks the pendulum swingeth too far!
The pocket with the belt I believe was an actual part of fashion history. There was a small belt bag that would hang on the belt and the “pocket” was just a hole to access the bag. I think it was before women’s clothing had pockets. Back then I don’t think women wore pants at all
1850-1860s is the only time period during the Victorian era in which it was actually fashionable to tight lace corsets so I'm not surprised it's so small. I agree that it was likely for a younger woman as well. Gorgeous design though and maybe someone could pattern a new gown from it w/o having to take it apart. Lovely find!
I've found these high-waisted jeans of my mom from the 90's, 'til now I'm still trying to fit into them. It's not 20 tho, it's 22 and the lowest I've been is 24. I don't wanna give them away tho. Quality is still superb unlike the quality of clothing these days. It's amazing how you keep on finding these vintage clothes!
Do people not get that the woman who wore the dress had a 20 Inch waist and that’s why the waist of the dress was that, it’s not like every wedding dress ever made in the 50s or whatever had a 20 inch waist, they came in different sizes. The size of the dress doesn’t reflect the society, it reflects the woman who wore it. They would’ve been a woman who had a wedding dress with a 27 inch waist and so on
Almost all dresses from that time period had pockets but they were usually tied on just above the crinoline or petticoats rather than sewn in like this one so that belt is a great find! I wonder if it being a wedding dress has anything to do with this? Did she hold her rings? Her something borrowed? Why did she choose to have it sewn in? Historical clothes bring historical people to life in such an incredible way.
It was either a teenager or the young woman was short and malnorished. People forget that food back then was difficult to grow and obtained as well as being smaller and more organic. Also less advanced agricultural practices compare today. Today we have mega farms and advanced cross breeding practices which allow us to make food than ever before. Animals and plants were a lot smaller back then and people walked everywhere due to no cars and even horses and donkeys were low in number. People back then were smaller but also more muscular and physically stronger. Imagine a 90 pound 5 ft tall lady carrying 200 pounds of water buckets to and from the nearby river/lake to the house to do household chores. 💀 our ancestors were made of tougher stuff than we are today.
I think that it could of been an under garment for richer people around the 1850 mark as there would of been corsets around that time but it’s a beautiful bit of history I enjoy this time periods but don’t take my word for it this also could of been a servants dress or a house keepers as it would be a plain minimal dress for them x
I have a 1950 dress and sweater jacket thing, as well as a matching pair of accessories (gloves, maryjanes, and a hat) it's very fancy, being a black tie branded outfit. Nowadays that brand isn't open however a different one has replaced it with the same name. Anyway those things can cost 150$ or more
Note to people: the less something is worn the more likely it is to survive. And the smaller it is, the more impossible it is to remake into more fashionable things.
Therefore, this dress wasnt worn much, and couldnt be altered to fit newer fashions, likely the reason for its survival :))
Also, clothes meant to fit the youth are more likely to survive since kids tend to grow out of things.
Yes too small for it to be passed to others and worn out
It is just fabric! Transforming old clothes into today's fashion is good for the planet. There is absolutely no sense in making clothes that wont be ever used by anyone. What a waste..
Usually I’d agree but let me show you a new perspective
“There’s no point keeping this painting, we might as well paint a new one over it”
“There’s no point in leaving this sculpture, let’s re-carve it”
I agree that most pieces from the last century are completely cool to do up, but a lot of the much older clothes are pieces of fashion history and need to be considered art. Many are in museums already. Some things are just too cool and too old to repurpose.
@@totallynotbatman6121 no, im saying that most people had their old clothes altered every year to every decade when the fashions changed, i dont mean now lol
Disclaimer: we only think it’s from the 1860s bc it reminds us of Gone with the Wind 😂
Could it be so small because the bride was probs pretty young? I know they married girls off way too young pretty often back then.
Based on the skirt silhouette it is very late 1860’s to mid 1870’s. You can see the skirt is trained in the back, not gathered evenly around as it would be to go over a hoop skirt in the 1850s and early-mid 1860’s. Based on the drop shoulder it is from before the late 1870’s though so your guess is pretty close
What's very sad for me to think is... I bet it was somebody who is very young when they got married, since most 18+ young women/women have at least a 24" waist. For her waist to be that small, I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually a child 😢 since fat deposits at the hips don't become very noticeable until after puberty. Even when I was 86.5 lbs at 5'3" my waist was bigger than 20". 😢
***For context I struggled with drugs that's why. I've been clean for 5yrs in August tho!
@@xdani_thethinkingnekocongrats on sobriety!!! I’m thinking it could be from a younger girl but at the same time, I work in memory care/assisted living and there are some veryyy petite women there. Currently I have a resident who is not even 5’ and she wears child size clothing so it could be from an adult too. There are some very small people in this world 😂
@@xdani_thethinkingnekocongratulations on the upcoming milestone! 🎉 ❤
I wonder, would that silhouette be achievable through tightlacing? Perhaps the owner wasn't that young 😢
The wearer was probably a young teenage girl. That was the age most women married at back then. It explains why so many vintage wedding dresses were SO tiny.
And corsets!
Some people are lucky too! I had a 22inch and I was almost a skeleton! It’s crazy😂
My family tree begs to differ. Most women in my family got married in their 20s
was looking for this, YES
@@MsJerrySparkle why? To make people feel better about themselves being fat? 😂
@@vainpiers your family tree isn’t everyone else.
For people who dont know. People weren't "smaller back then"
This is survivorship bias, the clothing survived in such good condition because people grew out of them. Which is the same reason you dont often find larger sizes, because the larger clothing was worn to death. These extants are really good for reproductions though as you can get accurate patterns from them. I hope you put it in an archival box to protect it
Exactly! You can still find women this small today, and they're probably just as rare as they were 200 years ago.
@emro164 No, probably they were not smaller back then this waist size would have been achieved with a corset, which is why the waist is so small. That's the reason why you can't sometimes fit into historical clothes without historical garments, especially because clothes were made with your proportions and would have been measured while wearing those garments .
Literally the most simple Google searches can prove this wrong... people were Literally smaller... Literally, actually
Also it was legal to marry at a much younger age in most states
people literally were smaller, average height has increased a lot
Guys I'm 20 and have a 21 inch waist. Being skinny in the waist doesn't always necessarily mean it was worn by a child.
You under 5 ft?
God you must be like 4’11 I’m 5’6 and my waist is 26 inches and I’m already eeny weeny
Gabi literally needs to do a netflix vintage documental ❤
Wow, I've never commented on here before. I just wanted to say Gabi that you're the reason I started wearing and shopping for vibtage clothes, and I've really come to love it. My wallet, on the other hand, does not😅.
Lol, relatable! 😅😂
1860s...so this would have been for a potentially 14-16 year old, hence the 20 inch waist. 😬
That's what I was thinking. Gross.
Don't @ me, I don't care about your explaination. I've thought of the same things you have and I don't agree. That's it.
That's exactly what I was thinking. :(
She would have been corsetted as well, which would have helped to achieve that tiny waist.
Well, if it's was from the 1860s, the 20 inch waist could be for a corset.
Exactly
Are you kidding me that back is gorgeous. The dropped sleeves and the way it flows into the skirt is flawless
Indeed
omg this reminds me of when my grandfather let me try on my late grandma's wedding dress🥺 she was 19 and he was 18. we lost him last year so now they're together again wherever they may be. he was very tall and my grandma was very short, so it was always a joke in the family that her shortness skipped a generation since my mom is slightly taller than average, and well. im 4'11" and done growing. i remember my mom and aunt were helping clean when my aunt brought down my grandma's wedding dress from the attic, and we were all laughing at how tiny it was and how it'd probably fit me, i was 14 at the time and it fit like a glove it was funny and bittersweet at the same time. sorry for rambling, i don't remember much of my grandma since she passed away when i was 4, but my grandpa was my world and i always felt safest and most loved at his house. im still trying to cope with how to live without him here, and i just want to do everything i can to keep his memory alive
I think we should also keep in mind that the 1860s were a time of serious hardship, and so the wearer might not have had adequate access to food.
I think this dress is more likely from the natural form era.
Anyone who could afford a dress like that had enough money for food.
By the looks of the dress, they were probably pretty good
Obesity was just very rare, and not the norm like now.
@@noahchopson7136 I do not think obesity is the norm now by any means, and if you look at photos from the 19th century you will find many hefty people pictured. Big Bill Taft was not the only large man in his time!
A few things:
1. Yes people were smaller back then, but a 20 inch waist is smaller than an US 00 size. Some people are just small. This is also one dress not thousands giving us a representation of the average adult woman in the 1860s.
2. The everyday corset was still something you could move around and work in, but corsets did cinch in the waist. You could comfortably and temporarily lose some width with a corset, and this was a special occasion so I wouldn't rule out tight lacing.
3. Smaller clothes survive because people shared clothes more frequently. You can more easily take in someone's larger dress to fit a smaller body. You can't so easily do the opposite. Again, not saying that the people were not on average smaller back then, but a 20 inch waist was not the norm.
4. Unless you were a member of the nobility, you got married in your 20s. Everyday people were not getting married at 13.
Wow, and I thought my 24” waist in high school was tiny!!!
Same here. I'm assuming corsets were worn with this.
can you give me some advice for that? thanks!!
I’m definitely not that tiny anymore!!!
You have to remember how younger girls were married back then. 13 or 14 was normal. Also, no processed or fast food/hard labor from childhood. Also, ppl were smaller in general.
@@notconvincedgranny6573Corsets don't really cinch you in that much. At most, without tight lacing (which people knew was dangerous), you can get your waist measurement down 2-3 inches smaller. However, that works better when you have a lot of fat there for the corset to move around. If you're already tiny, a corset isn't gonna do that much to cinch you. I'm guessing it was either a very slim person or a child who wore the dress
Hello everyone
Note to everyone that says the dress is tiny because it was worn by a teenager: it's the 1850s and this dress is clearly an example of western fashion. Marriage under 17 in western society in the 19th century was not common. In fact if you look at statistics, in some places the average age of a first marriage had decreased (I can't remember the exact stats or the website but something along the lines of an average of 27 in the 1890s and 24 in the 2000s in France i believe). The dress is actually maybe not a wedding dress. Although lighter colours, especially white were popularised by queen victoria as wedding colours after she wor white to her wedding in 1840, you could also wear white in other contexts. To me, this is a quite fancy dress for an occasion, made for a teenager from a upper middle class family. Either the teenager died and they didn't want to repurpose the dress, or she simply grew out of it and decided she'd save it for later and never actually did. If it is a wedding dress, then it might be a rare case of very young marriage, or just a tiny lady that grew out of that pretty fast because the dress isn't altered. Also i can't see the fabric very well, but if it's a lighter fabric it was probably a summer dress, which were usually lighter coloured to keep you cool.
Edit: it was in this video i was too lazy to check the sources but if you care (and speak French) you can
ua-cam.com/video/ChZCwdml-rU/v-deo.htmlsi=ct0dgzKYgpN5NYVC
Pockets 👍🏼👍🏼 Always love clothing with usable pockets
Gurl when do you keep finding these I
only be finding bootleg gucci shirts 💀
If you are talking thrifting, you dont find treasures they find you. I guess the treasures that found you were a handful of Guchi shirts.😂
"Grandmas friend" is her grading distributor. This is sneaky promotion for her resale store.
I was born in 1943 and when I was a child I knew many older women who were born in the 19th century and most of them were short. My grandmother, born 1883, was 5' 4". My mother, b. 1915, considered herself very tall at 5' 6". When we were shopping she would automatically go to the "Tall" section of the clothing and I would have to drag her to the "Average."
I have a wedding gown from around 1890 that is a 18 inch waist. 12 inch neck,13 inch shoulders. It is a cathedral train in satin and lace,actual working buttons on mesh. No label,so it could be homemade.
People are so adamant no one has ever created a small waist by a corset but these people were likely just as vain as every other generation and they lived in corsets, from a young age, so they could have created smaller waistlines simply by wearing one all the time and tightening it extra for an event without too much effort.
Also people were sick more, so a lean build is more likely. Not just from famine.
I once bought a family friend's entire record collection from his youth. The records were stored in a garage so I had to clean them up individually and I went through each and every one to see if they came with posters and other goodies. In some of the 200 records that I went through I found cards from birthdays, love notes from high school sweethearts, and group photos from when he played football in high school. I was so glad that I was the one who bought the collection so that I could return the mementos to him.
Moral of the story: always check pockets and records when you buy something because you never know what you'll find. if you find mementos and you can give them back please do it it'll make their day!
"Always check the pockets!" Yes because sometimew you find a matching belt, and sometimes you find a real rabbit's foot or other gross stuff.
Some people are just small... not necessarily a teenager. I had a naturally 23 inch waist at age 25. I was biking everywhere for grad school. So, the small size does not always directly correlate to a young age.
That pocket is large enough to fit half of Jupiter 😂
It has a 20 inch waist because it’s meant to be worn with a corset. So a women with a natural 24 inch waist can corset and fit in the dress, since corsets take in an average of 4 inches.
if your squishy and have gap between hips and ribs- I don't by much only 2 fingers . the smallest reduction I can get is a 1" and it hurts like hell.
Modern corsets, yes, but whalebone or corded or featherbone? Not likely.
you need to wear a corset underneath, they used corsets frequently back then so thats why sometimes some garments dont fit your waist
Even women in the 1800s loved dresses with pockets
I totally Love ❤vintage clothes and it's fun searching for them too.
Oh my gosh you literally make this look gorgeous-
My mother had an 18 inch waist when she got married 1959. I could wear her dress when I was 21. I did fetch down a skirt from the same period, it just about fastened around my leg. I blame 30 years of office work.
My mum was tiny, my daughter was 12 when she wore it...by the time she got married, although a modern day 10 (Australian...I think that's a 2 or something in USA??) Anyway, although she looked very slim, she could no longer fit in it. They were small back in 1950
Wow. My waist is 23.5" and the absolute smallest it could ever be is 23". It's already not easy to find pants and jeans; how did you find anything to fit you? Also are you and your mom very petite too? It's just crazy to think of such tiny waists on grown women...
@delevator8755 actually sge is 5' 4" I'm 5'7. And I learnt to sew. Luckily in my late teens, Wallis, started to sell UK size 8 which meant a tuck instead of a big dart. Yep I was tall and very skinny, my school nickname was Daddy Long Legs for a while.
@@amandathomas2061 wow, I'm only 5'2 myself. Now I feel super stocky with my 23" waist haha! (Kidding, not about to starve myself or anything)
@@delevator8755My waist is like 19-22 and it's because I was malnourished as a child. As for how I find clothes, I basically have to buy from exclusively lolita fashion (Which is fine since I like classic lolita, but expensive)
Basically... Buying overseas is the only option. Nothing fits me in America.
This doesn't look like a wedding dress. Based on the proportions and design, it looks like a young adult formal dress for a special occasion.
What makes you think that?
It's such a beautiful dress ❤
The coat sleeves say 1860s to me, as they weren't fashionable earlier.
I think you’re right, the skirt being gathered up in the back and trained puts it very late in the decade/maybe early 1870’s though
Girl I thought I was subscribed I love your videos, and you keep popping up on my feed. Your passion for vintage fashion brightens my day and makes me miss my grandma. She sewed my clothes when I was a kid
So did mine! I know how you feel!
I love your videos they make me really inspired
Wow very well preserved and beautiful.
Omg I'm early hi I love ur videos
Hello ❤
@@Gabis_vintagehii
How beautiful , and so well preserved ❤
You have to remember that girls were getting married at a young age before.
At this point, women in western countries were usually getting married after age 19.
The average marriage age for women was 22 in 1860.
most got married at 18-22
Classic and gorgeous!!
as a person with a 21 inch waist, i need that, that's impressive
can you give me tips for shrinking my waist? thanks!!!
@@cool1594 your best bet for losing any sort of body mass would be a healthy diet and regular exercise of both cardio and weight lifting. But the biggest factor is going to be your bone structure. A narrow rib cage and narrow hips with a longer torso is going to be likely to achieve such a small waist in a healthy and natural manner. If you don't have the bone structure to support a 20" waist, it won't happen naturally. Also, diet and exercise shouldn't be done only to achieve a 20" waist necessarily, but to achieve a healthy body for a healthy life. ❤
Are you a teen? That was the only time my waist was 21 inches. I'm 28, and my waist is 25 inches. I'm at the same weight as I was in high school too.
I achieved a 21 inch waist too. I got a thyroid problem so undoing the damage its 24 inches but not bad for age 37.
@@soniczforever5470that’s rlly good to hear
The belt.
THE BELT.
Even when my mom fat shames me, she says “you know when I was at your age my waist was 23 inches” 😂
Sounds like my mother 😵😔😭😢
A wedding dress with pockets 😮 LOVE IT
You need a corset for it to fit properly. But that's still no guarantee that it would fit since every garment was custom made. It's a stunning piece.
Bc of the back i would say late 1860s/70s ver pretty!!
If it is a wedding dress it's incredibly plain, wedding dresses of the western world between 1860-1880s we're very decorated, I would guess it was just a plain off-white dress, party wear most likely
What if the bride and their family was poor?
Mmmmm I agree it is very plain for a silk wedding dress of the 1870s to 1880s, but I see no reason it couldn't be a perfectly stylish mid 1860s to early 1870s look for a morning wedding (as opposed to an evening one where a lower neckline could be expected to be accompanied with more frou frou)
@xxarianahiltonxx5116 If they were poor, it would be more typical for a new dress to be made of wool or cotton, likely in a colour or print, and worn and altered beyond the day of the wedding until it fell apart.
It's possible someone could just scrape together enough money to afford silk, and never find enough opportunities to wear it beyond the one day, and/or keep the dress for sentimental value, but I would associate the condition of the dress with a more high-status wearer.
You know the bride was tight laced TO THE GODS that day
I didn't even have a 20" waist at birth
They used to Wear corsets underneath so it's understandable
I’m a board member at a historical society and I’m in charge of the clothing collection.
I love your videos but items of clothing before 1950 really shouldn’t be worn as the oils on your skin will deteriorate the fabric faster. It’s best to keep those stored away is acid free paper and boxes
Try it again with an 1860s style corset. It doesn't have to be tightly laced. A properly worn corset shapes the body and it might make all the difference here.
The dress should be donated to a museum. It's a piece of history and should be respected..
Late 19th century is hardly historical enough for a museum.
I think it gets more appreciation in private hands than packed away in a museum storeroom. It may be difficult to believe, but there are quite a few dresses of that age around.
She is respecting it. A museum would just pack it away and no one would see it. I have seen it done.
this is so cool!
since this is around the time that white became popular as a wedding dress which Queen Victoria popularized when she married Prince Albert in 1840
so the fact that it survived this long is amazing!
Would the tiny waist be due to a corset that would have been worn if this is from 1860?
probably wouldve been a teenaged bride
Probably due to a corset and young age
@@clouddd8053or a coming out dress?
Most likely a woman with a tiny waist, idk why people are saying it's a teenager
@emro164Well said 👏
In my 20s and 30s, my waist was 19 inches.
you could try it with a corset!
"Vintage!,so adorable”
Oh wow
Never been this early
Love the pocket in the dress ♡
I'm always excited to see dresses with such small waists because I once modeled a wedding dress for a show with a 19 inch waist. And it was so pretty. Though no one wanted it because of the small waist, people still thought it was amazing to see it worn again. The owner especially loved seeing it worn again.
20” ????! Dang I’m a size 00 or 0 and that’s too small for even me
It wouldve probably been a young bride (14-17 maybe younger) and worn with either a corset or a stay
I wear 00 and I wear 18 inch corsets
Same.
@@bethanywood5564 I kind of wonder why they assume it's a wedding dress? Isn't it possible for it to just be a normal dress, maybe for a particularly tall young teen?
Reminds me of the gorgeous gown Celine Dion wore in one of her videos. Stunning
Try a corset from that time period. My guess is you will fit the dress with the correct undergarments.
Well said, finally I find someone who understands the matter of wearing undergarments.
Love this one. So pretty
Everybody complaining about not being able to fit into this dress is not thinking of the more Sinister fact that this is probably the wedding dress of a child bride
that’s a possibility!! but due to medical advancements and other cultural stuff at this time, people were generally able to marry later than adolescent-age, as was seen in centuries before, and as is often stereotyped. avg marrying age in the 1860s for women was ~22 yrs. courting started earlier, but often marriage would be delayed until the early 20s. it’s more likely the garment survived simply due to survivorship bias bc the waist was so tiny. i mean, adults *can* achieve a 20 inch waist, it’s just HARD and really all up to genetics and life. my grandmother had a 20 inch waist when she was married in 1963, at 18. so it’s not impossible. just very difficult. she was also impoverished, overworked, and genetically very small which is how she was so tiny.
my first thoughts
Could be, but it is really not likely.
@@dorothywillis1 how is it not likely? Underage girls have been getting married for centuries, and it still happens till this day. The only reason it happens less is because we have laws in place to prevent it.
@@aa-dj5zk This dress belonged to someone who lived in 19th century United States. I agree that in the past girls frequently married young -- at least younger than we now think is appropriate. My own great-grandmother had her first child at the age of 16. But that is very different from what I understand the term "child bride" to mean. To me a child bride is younger than approximately 13 years old. This has not been at all common in any part of the United States at any time. So I think it is improbable that the dress belonged to a child bride. I hope I have explained my reasoning clearly.
I wish I had this dress, it’ll fit me so perfectly
Maybe it’s a wedding dress for a child bride …………………..
“Back in my day people only had 3 organs, and none of them were lungs!”
lol
The 20” waist is giving child bride
20 inch waist ??!! Gurl, that bride's waist is Snatched!! 😂😂😂
Have my mom's wedding dress - not a style or size I would ever wear but the fabric is awesome.
Repurposing it into layetts for premies and infants that passed away
Vintage clothing dealer of 18 years here. This is my career first off. Second off, some off you act like experts when you are not. It's extremely common to see an adult piece with a 20" waist from that time period. Shoes were max 3" wide as well. Our bones were not supplemented with calcium the way we have had the last few decades. Average waist I see for Edwardian or Victorian is 24". From the looks, I'd actually date this to 1900-1910 but I'd have to see in person. It's not impossible to be earlier though. Please don't comment that this is a child's dress or that the corsets didn't cinch waists, these are incorrect claims and insulting to my work.
For dating, I'd need to see closures, hem, seams,material skirt max width and any boning. Could be around 1870s or early 1900s. Anyway, this is a fun find.
Ooh that's really interesting what you say about the early 1900s! My interests are historical re-enactment of the 1890s and early medieval so I don't get to see so many original garments as someone who specialises in antiques! Thanks for sharing your professional point of view, particularly the points about having to take a closer look to properly date the dress. Based on the cut alone and my current level of knowledge, my money's on late 1860s/early 1870s :) but I would be interested to learn more as the early 1900s are starting to grow on me.
I feel your pain here in the comments section, I recently had an in person conversation with someone who owned a very similar dress to the one in this video but in a striped cotton with box pleating all around the skirt and the cartridge pleats just in the back and she swore blind it was from the 1880s!! I asked how she knew that, thinking the dress might have unusual provenance and she said she knew because of the fashionable style!! I was as polite as possible without outright agreeing with her! She thought very highly of herself and her collection and put down other people all through our conversation too.
I think overall it's nice that people are moving away from the myth that all women from 18th through to beginning of 20th century 'tightlaced' all the time and couldn't breathe or move etc.
That the fashionable shape was also achieved by padding and that corsets don't *need* to reduce your waist measurement to give you the fashionable shape is really useful information for reenactors and costumiers. But methinks the pendulum swingeth too far!
The pocket with the belt I believe was an actual part of fashion history. There was a small belt bag that would hang on the belt and the “pocket” was just a hole to access the bag. I think it was before women’s clothing had pockets. Back then I don’t think women wore pants at all
1850-1860s is the only time period during the Victorian era in which it was actually fashionable to tight lace corsets so I'm not surprised it's so small. I agree that it was likely for a younger woman as well. Gorgeous design though and maybe someone could pattern a new gown from it w/o having to take it apart. Lovely find!
I've found these high-waisted jeans of my mom from the 90's, 'til now I'm still trying to fit into them. It's not 20 tho, it's 22 and the lowest I've been is 24. I don't wanna give them away tho. Quality is still superb unlike the quality of clothing these days. It's amazing how you keep on finding these vintage clothes!
Long sleeved dress 😳
With pockets 😭💖
Do people not get that the woman who wore the dress had a 20 Inch waist and that’s why the waist of the dress was that, it’s not like every wedding dress ever made in the 50s or whatever had a 20 inch waist, they came in different sizes. The size of the dress doesn’t reflect the society, it reflects the woman who wore it. They would’ve been a woman who had a wedding dress with a 27 inch waist and so on
Beautiful dress
Almost all dresses from that time period had pockets but they were usually tied on just above the crinoline or petticoats rather than sewn in like this one so that belt is a great find! I wonder if it being a wedding dress has anything to do with this? Did she hold her rings? Her something borrowed? Why did she choose to have it sewn in? Historical clothes bring historical people to life in such an incredible way.
I have a 20 inch waist, I could wear that. This is amazing
It was either a teenager or the young woman was short and malnorished. People forget that food back then was difficult to grow and obtained as well as being smaller and more organic. Also less advanced agricultural practices compare today. Today we have mega farms and advanced cross breeding practices which allow us to make food than ever before. Animals and plants were a lot smaller back then and people walked everywhere due to no cars and even horses and donkeys were low in number. People back then were smaller but also more muscular and physically stronger. Imagine a 90 pound 5 ft tall lady carrying 200 pounds of water buckets to and from the nearby river/lake to the house to do household chores. 💀 our ancestors were made of tougher stuff than we are today.
Probably because the dress would’ve been for a teenager and people were generally smaller 180 years ago
THAT WOULD FIT ME I NEED IT ALFHNWOCBWK OMG SO PRETTY
Looks awesome ❤❤❤❤
All hail the mighty corset.
Beautiful
Yall got the plantation creation
The back could lead t a BEAUTIFUL "new"dress/coat
You could rework the waste and front to fit you. Using a complimentary fabric or lace.
I think that it could of been an under garment for richer people around the 1850 mark as there would of been corsets around that time but it’s a beautiful bit of history I enjoy this time periods but don’t take my word for it this also could of been a servants dress or a house keepers as it would be a plain minimal dress for them x
OMG IT HAS POCKETS!
That's so unusual for a wedding dress, at least now
It would make an amazing open front jacket. With that gorgeous back
That would fit me perfectly ....I'm on the pizza and French fries diet and a size one ....seems beautiful
Well we know how that survived for so long in such good condition lol
Don't forget at that time frame women wore corsets to cinch in their waists
A dress from the 1850 is more functional that the weddings dresses we now have 💀
I have a 1950 dress and sweater jacket thing, as well as a matching pair of accessories (gloves, maryjanes, and a hat) it's very fancy, being a black tie branded outfit. Nowadays that brand isn't open however a different one has replaced it with the same name. Anyway those things can cost 150$ or more
I have a 20” waist but I’m extremely petite(essentially a little girl body) but nothing ever fits me so I would love this haha
Cut the front down the center the rest of the way and you got a bomb ass puffy long jacket type vibes.
The pleating at the back makes me think more of the lobster-tail bustles from the 1880s, personally. 1860s would be more evenly distributed!
Han Jisung could probably fit in it
Definitely for a younger bride wearing a corset! Wow, such treasures you have!