Wondering about oil. Saw video on UA-cam about fixing tick. Person fixed the problem by going 5w30 weight engine oil from factory recommended 0w20. What do you think ? Thanks
@ReignitedAuto. What are your thoughts on the metal running through the oiling system. My sons 13 Ram is in this condition. My concern is with all the metal in the oil and it’s not much more to pull the motor and do a full rebuild. Cam, crank and rod bearing cleaning oil passages etc.
@MiguelSanchez-nd4bv Chrysler's official answer to this: pull the oil control valve solenoid under the intake and look at the screen on the solenoid. If there a bunch of metal on the screen you'll need to go through the whole engine, but if the screen is clear you can just do the cam/lifters and be fine. 👍
@@ReignitedAuto You can also install a Mildon high flow oil pump at idle my 5.7 sits at about 45 PSI of oil pressure on the highway I run approx 80 PSI of oil pressure. But from the few hemi cams I have looked at on number 5 we have noticed skip marks in the cam lobe which looks like to low of spring pressure on the valvetrain.
@@weaselsmopar6843 My stock oil pump with 128k miles on it, produces 48 PSI off idle and 56 PSI on the highway. I don't need 80 PSI on the highway, I need more oil pressure at idle. I get 34 PSI at idle, in higher temperatures I have seen drop as low as 27 PSI at idle. Swapping out the pressure relief spring on basically the same pump, will give you higher pressure at higher rpm, but won't do anything at idle. The whole point of the video was higher oil pressure at idle, no one has identified a problem with the stock 55-60 PSI at higher rpm causing any problems.
@@rickanderson8088 You can use a higher volume pump to increase pressure at idle, then if you don't want it on kill, you can put a lower pressure relief spring in it to lower the high side pressure.
@@jakesampson9106 And that is exactly what I'm doing. Just got a Hellcat pump and swapped the pressure relief spring with the OEM spring for the 5.7L. The pressure relief mechanism is identical, the outside of the pump is identical, the hellcat pump has an 1/8" thicker rotor and more vanes in the rotor, the case is a little thinner to fit the bigger rotor in the same case.
Absolute Gospel Advice. 10/10. I drive a Jeep Commander 06 Hemi in the UK on LPG. Not a sports car, and not young but a beautiful beast. I love the engine and look after it. I advise ALL viewers to watch this chaps videos, as it’s all done to earth, straight forward and entertaining. Well done! Don’t be put off with teething problems with a Hemi, and try to watch all these Hemi videos before a future purchase too. It’s a stunning engine and a engineering classic - lets keep Hemi’s alive no matter where you are in the world! “…And yes, this Baby’s got a Hemi!”
8 less spark plugs would be the best modification ever... My 3rd gen, Non MDS in a 2500 with a 6sp manual still makes the old dodge worth hanging on to....bought new in 06..
Finally, someone on the same page as myself. I have been saying it's an oil supply issue forever. These lifters being oiled backwards is not widely known. The oil supply is extremely limited after it travels all the way through the block, up through the heads, through the rocker assemblys, and down the pushrods. Hot idle time is a big killer.
Great video. If you go to Rockauto, I chose a 2017 Challenger with a 5.7 at random, go to "engine" and "oil pump", it has a Melling high performance oil pump, #10452, it comes with an optional higher pressure spring. The Mopar pump #'s are indeed different for the 5.7 and 6.2's.
Always put your car in neutral, if your sitting for more than a few seconds. I've seen my oil pressure in the teens, when it's hot out idling in drive. A little rev here and there doesn't hurt either.
After tearing into 4 of these engines so far I realised the exact same thing. The crank driven pump needs to put out more pressure at idle. A well regulated engine will drop down to 600 rpms at idle , on brake, in gear with no accessories running. Putting a 180 thermostat in effects the oil temperature by lower the temperature of the engine on temporarily. According to the Guage across several vehicles averages 35lbs at idle. Increasing the rpms to 1000 gives an average of 50 lbs. Aftermarket lifters generally have a hole behind the roller (not helping) maintaining pressure in effect bleeding oil pressure from the galley. 35lbs would be borderline on most conventional engines of the past under normal operation. The rail system is fed through a diffrent section, as the lower section of the engine has its segregated oil passages. As the engines oil temp increases the viscosity changes. This results in thinner hotter oil . Thermal expansion of parts starts to have a factor in the fit tolerance and flow rate. If the oil temp exceeds the coolant temperature, as witnessed ,the tapping is more prominent. Hot motor more tick! I wonder if a well regulated oil cooling system wouldn't help more , since changing the weight is not an option? Tuning the vehicles idle several hundred rpms will provide a supplemental boost...P.S. life long subscriber here.
That may be why Chrysler added an oil cooler above the oil filter on newer hemi engines such as the one in the Ram,I don't know if the other vehicle models equiped with the 5.7 and up got them as well but I do know that the Ram did,also the smaller engines did as well,so I agree with you,the engineers had also thought about lowering the oil temperature or at least keeping the oil at the same temperature as the coolant,like the video said,the new revised lifter is still failing.
You must run heavier oil like 5w30 in any climate. Even THICKER like 5w40 in hotter climates. The 5w20 IS DEFINETLY one of the problems. Add in the fact that they keep reducing the Zinc in the oil and it just makes things even worse.
@@matthewluna727 I personally wouldnt and wont run 5w20 in any engine. 5w30 is the lightest I run. I live in a much much colder climate than you in Texas! People say that thicker oil will give engine codes and wont let the mds system work properly, Not true. Ive been running 5w30 since 2014 with Zero codes and my mds system works like new. In a hot climate like yours I would run 5w40. 5w20 flows like water at 50° can you imagine how thin it is when the engine runs at almost 200° ?
@@larrydunlop378 your right!! I have a Jeep hemi and Jeep pentastar, both with around 120k miles, both engines run good now… well decent, but I want to keep these cars as long as possible, especially with price of everything, you think both the hemi and pentastar (v6) stock oil pumps can push that thick viscosity around the block? Should I upgrade the pumps like this guy recommends? Then add thicker oil
Volume and pressure are directly related. More volume with the same resistance will raise pressure, you can't produce more pressure with the same resistance without more Volume. Notice how he showed you the Hi-Pressure Pumps on the market are just the same volume with a stronger pressure relief valve. That just means the pressure relief opens later so at high rpm you get more pressure, simply because the pressure relief opens later. You want more pressure at idle and low rpm, the hi-pressure pump does nothing, pressure is exactly the same as the standard pump at idle and low rpm.
It would be awesome if you could try this on video. Like get your hands on both pumps, give us an overview of the differences and try it on a 5.7 to see if this works. It could be huge!
I'm seeing posts on the internet contradicting each other, "I tried the Hellcat Pump, it won't fit" and "I have a Hellcat Pump in 5.7L Hemi right now". There are many changes to the Hemi over the years, especially with the VVT, and they are different among the trucks, the cars and the Jeeps. So it may be a case it works for some years of Hemi's in some applications and won't work for other years or applications. i.e. works for a 2011 Truck but won't work in a 2011 Jeep.
@@rickanderson8088 VVT is used for idle controls i think 🤔on dodge's V8's so its a useful thief, making sense FCA was cheap and didn't upgrade to a larger oil engine pump at the time of the VVT change
@@richardprice5978 they did upgrade the oil pump to 25% higher volume when they went to VVT, the question is, was it enough? AFA as it being idle control? Well, that is one way to look at it. It's really a schema to improve engine performance and economy without suffering the drawback of a really rough idle or high idle speed.
@@rickanderson8088 running 4 or 1 cylinder vs all V8 raises the cylinder pressures and stabilise the lower RPM's aka idling and changing valve timing does as well so it doesn't stall or hunt ect. and yes it can lead to more power but on average the max-pump of 60~ ( needed for LSX phaser's is 200-1500 as my educated guess ) PSI isn't enough for 5K-rpm's so up top phaser engine's lose power
I think that is the best explanation on the Hemi cam issue I've hear. It shows how much you know your stuff and are great at being able to present/explain it great. To bad this has become such a "black eye" for the Hemi when it is such a great and strong platform.
My '12 Challenger R/T w/manual 6 speed trans now has over 125,000 miles on it after the last road trip. It shows no signs of letting up, and has always had a very mild "ticking" noise(very similar to a set of quiet solid lifters)in the engine. Not too many other people would even notice it, but, having been a professional mechanic myself for 35+ years, it's just my 2nd nature to hear noises like that. Our '14 Chrysler 300C w/5.7 hemi, same deal, 67K on this car and no ticking other than hearing injectors firing when running. It has served us well since we bought it in early 2019 used from a dealer in CA(original owner kept oil/filter changed every 5K miles from new according to carfax report). Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
Ive always wondered if the higher pressures work to fix the issue because there are squirters involved. Like putting your thumb over a running water hose....less flow, more pressure, but note how far the water "squirts" compared to just running out at full flow. FWIW thicker oil will show higher idle pressures, whether its actually getting to more places because of it I dont know. And as mentioned above literally 50-100RPM change in idle speed brings the pressure up to something really good. I found evidence a long time ago that Chrysler had different PCM flashes with different idle RPM values. 580, 600, 750, etc. I feel like even just 750 would be good, my truck idles at about 600 right now.
@@pantygnome Thicker Oil (i.e. greater viscosity and viscosity is the measure of its resistance to flow) will increase pressure in the same conditions. So you get greater pressure, at the cost of less flow, and that less flow might be impacting parts of the engine negatively. Very worn engines, that have opened up space in their bearings will have less resistance to flow, that is why their oil pressure drops, switching to higher viscosity oil to get oil pressure back in the specs should result in close to the spec flow, so in that case win, win. But in the case of I just want higher oil pressure in an engine that is not worn enough to need it, you're playing a guessing game of if the oil pressure at the expense of less flow is helping more than it is hurting. I think you are saying that as well, just trying to explain it better.
Yep, but I don't blame him for explaining it the way he does, for most people to understand. I am very frustrated by the people that buy off on the marketing propaganda about the "Hi Performance Hi-Pressure Oil pump" out there for the Hemi they saying a higher volume oil pump is not what you need, you need more pressure. ugg. You want more oil pressure at idle, putting a higher pressure relief spring in basically the same pump, won't do that, idle oil pressure will be the same, it will just give you more oil pressure at high rpm when you don't need that at all.
I use 5w30 pure synthetic, 6 quarts. And put one quart of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer in it. My idle oil psi at running temp is 38 psi At highway speeds it’s in the mid 50’s. No codes at all and the MDS works just fine. I personally believe 5w20 is too thin at operating temperatures and the only reason manufacturers use it and recommend it, is to squeeze out a tiny bit better fuel economy. Thinner oil = less resistance
As an owner of both a 6.2 and 6.4, I appreciate the continued discussion of this topic. One thing I have noticed from the gauges is that my 6.2 hot idle pressure is always 4-5 psig higher than the 6.4 at the same conditions, lending credence to the notion the pump may have slightly larger gears (higher volume).
I "believe", so correct me if I'm wrong. The 6.2L supercharged engine has oil squirters added under the pistons to handle the greater heat. This would need a higher volume oil pump just to keep up with the higher demand to make the same oil pressure as the other engines. Thus if you were to use that Hellcat pump in the lower oil volume demand versions of the engine (the5.7L and 6.4L) it should produce more than the 4-5 PSIG you see.
Being low volume of oil is the problem restriction of flow from the paper or cellulose oil filters are the cause. I just bought a $76,000 2022 Ram 1500 Limited 4x4 5.7 Etorque and at 1,000 miles I changed the oil to Amsoil 0W20 and replaced the oil filter to a Kand P engineering stainless Steel mesh reusable oil filter that cleans down to 5 microns (also FAA Approved for Aircraft) but, allows for 7 times more volume of oil flow than any other filter on the market. Reducing the back pressure synchronizes the engine to the transmission a little better when your slowing down for a red light your foot is on the break light turns green then accelerate your in the correct gear to much back pressure and its jerky is what I have found. I just found out by accident when testing this filter.. I used it for the last 80,000 miles in my 2015 Ram 1500 3.0 Ecodiesel that I put 180,000 miles on. Advantages are I just clean it and reuse it no more filters to buy and inside the filter is a rare earth magnet that catches metal. I also installed a oil filter relocation kit and a Valvomax drain valve no mess at oil pan now and I don't need a wrench just finger tight, comes with a hose that when screwed on opens the valve. Idling at 500 RPM's with 7 times more flow would solve this issue and even be better than a hellcat oil pump and put my flow rate line almost vertical at 10 psi I will let you know in years to come. Lubrication with the best oil you can find with more flow combined with magnet and most of all cleaning down to 5 micron how can you get better. For only $189 and never buy another filter. I also change my oil every 5,000 miles Vs 10,000 I just cant make myself wait that long, it took a lot for me just to go up to 5k I was a 3k guy because that what my Dad thought me 55 years ago. In 55 years I have never had a blown engine Mom and Dad said don't listen to the radio listen to your truck IDK why I'm telling you all this I guess because I love my truck and my wife is sleeping well I'm hanging up now good night.
I know many of you will disagree with my assessment. I've heard every possible theory from others as to why this is happening, and I'm open to other ideas, however you have to back up your theory with facts, not conjecture. If I hear one more person say, "it's a design flaw and Chrysler should recall it" I'm going to scream 😄
Great video I’m learning more and more as I prepare to rebuild my hemi engine in my 06 300. Thanks any advice on where to buy rebuild kit would be great.
@@jackangel9465 I did my 2013 cam and lifters, I'm a old mechanic. I hada missfire code. The cyld indicated had a bad lifter and a round cam lobe. 3 other cam lobes were in very bad shape, but the lifters on them were like new. It's the cam. I replaced with aftermarket 5000kms ago.
Great video!! Thanks. I have an 09’ Ram 1500 Crew with 132,000 miles in it and it still purrs. I have done the exhaust manifold bolts 2 times and now I just change them out after about 30k miles before they break. It’s a great motor and anything I ever want to know about the Hemi your channel is the first place I go. Thanks you are a great source of information and working knowledge. I also use my truck like a truck and tow a travel trailer about 8k miles a year so it’s worked hard. I do use Amsoil oil and Mobile 1 full synthetic filter and send samples to Blackstone labs every oil change and they give me great reports on oil and filter. I will just keep doing what I’m doing.
@@brentfellers9632 I appreciate the insight. I'm considering replacing the cam in my 2014 challenger. The car only has 12K on it, so no issues so far. I was told the issues weren't with the 5.7 with manual transmissions, but a cam swap will address any scenario.
i have always used HV pumps on my SBC builds so this definitely makes good sence.. I would also add that along with the lower oil pressure at idle is the use of remote starters that encourage people to start their car long before the intend to actually leave. Leaving it idling for much longer than needed.
adding VVT and skip-fire parts added to the oil leak pathway's ( and not small ones as UTC/lunar out law's garage UA-cam video's showed on a 318-SBM dyno as its doing about the same things ) so yes it need more oil that's pressured sounds like maybe FCA 3rd-gen didn't change it and thought 💭they could get away with it, still think the camshaft should be hollow and oil the lobes directly and add spray bar's ect. aka its still got design flaws built in just like the 440/426/gen-2 has to be far but i still like the 60's sowing machine at low idle personally wishing that the 3rd-gen V8 gets the multi-air systems like the dodge dart tiger-shark engine is using and skip the push rod's and use piping in the cam-valley and 1.5:1 to 2:1 rocker ratio's
Why not take a couple of old cams to a machine shop and have them dimple hardness tested. One from a 2009+ with lifter failure and one from 2008- that doesn't. It leaves a small impression on the spot where your testing but if they are old and being used anymore who cares. They are not the most accurate hardness test but it should give you a good idea if the cam hardness is poorly done.
@@thefinalroman that style of hardness tester only gives reliable results on a flat surface, testing cam lobes with it is pissing in the wind, I have 15 years experience in metrology to know these things... all portable testers will give sketchy results without a flat surface, Jeremie has a better idea getting a proper test done
rebound hardness testers are basically bullshit a half ass shop might have to document a result for someone who wants it to meet a formality or impress people who know nothing about hardess or testing it. Not 1 person I asked ever told me the proper definition of hardness, simply a materials resistance to indentation, scratching is simply not the same thing and mohs pens fall into that best guess territory as well with much fancier portable rebound gear
if anything the scratch pens cannot even be claimed to check hardness at all, only what is referred to as 'superficial hardness' which is not really indicative of the quality of heat treat at all
To me, this makes more sense than anything else. I believe you nailed it. In addition, FWIW, valve springs need oil for proper cooling, there's a lot of heat generated in the valve springs.
So, my 2003 has 80,000 miles, and has this tick. And now, my engine has begun to misfire on start. Pretty soon here, I'm going to rebuild the whole engine, and I'm trying to find the best of everything I can get, so your videos have been very informative and helpful to me, personally. Thank you for all the knowledge, and for the content. I've really enjoyed your channel so far.
80k miles? A complete rebuild? I would confirm the cause of your problem first and make sure it is not a simple fix. You realize you could rebuild the valvetrain without removing the engine from the vehicle, and solve all our problems and rest of the engine not rebuilt would easily last another 220k miles if properly maintained. The cost and effort be 1/2 if not 1/3 of a complete rebuild that likely is totally unnecessary.
@@rickanderson8088 well, originally that was my plan. But one day I popped off the oil pan to replace the oil pan and the two stage gasket, and I saw all the oil, black, sludgy oil cooked to the crankshaft and rods. So, I'm pretty sure the original owner of that engine just didnt change the oil, and I think it the cause of so many issues. Improper maintenance can result in premature wear and tear, so I just chalked it up to that. If you think I can get away with just changing the cam, lifters, pushrods, valves and springs, I'd be happy lol. However I am going to change out for the high volume oil pump off the 6.2L
Seem like a pretty smart guy about hemis appreciate the video my 2007 5.7 Hemi has 270,000 miles and I don't have any of that issue thanks for the video man
Very interesting take. I have heard the horror stories of the HEMI tick and I get paranoid, like turning off my 2016 RAM 5.7 HEMI while I wait in a drive thru or really in any situation where I would just be sitting and idling. I would be very interested if this worked to try it out.
I use 5 qts pennzoil ultra platinum 2 qts pen plat high mileage 5w30 mobil 1 113a filter ......... quiet as a mouse ..can't feel motor run in drivers seat
@@HansBelphegorso you did the hellcat swap? Do you remember what the hot idle psi was to begin with? I’ve got a 20 5.7 rebel and my hot idle is 31 psi stock.
Absolutely love your knowledge you shared. I’m having lifter issues currently on my 5.7. I was just going stage 3 cam but now I’m upgrading my the oil pump as well
I have a 2009 hemi charger and 2017 hemi Ram. When on 5w20 oil they both idle at about 29 psi. With 5w30 oil they both idle at 34 psi hot. I’ve had no lifter issues from either.
Excellent, definitely can understand the information. I bought a retired 2014 Charger Police issue with 5.7 with 120k prior to knowing about the issue. I bought it to use for side jobs requiring emergency lights. I had it for almost a year and was on vacation when the had to floor it to o move from being hit. I heard what sounded like a small explosion and heard the dreadful ticking sound. Although faint it did not seem to affect the overall performance till later on. The tick turned into a knocking sound and much more pronounced. Eventually pressure started to decrease. It has been parked since because everyone (Mechanic) I have talked to said that I should not worry about having it repaired and that I should just buy another motor. Sure…on a Police Officers salary…heck throw in a Hellcat motor! Lol. But I would like some solid advise. Thanks for the video!
Really liked the video. However, now that pandora’s box is open, we need a video of the upgrade being done. Looking forward to that. Keep up the great content!
@@ReignitedAuto you made it out of Oregon and you chose to come back!!😱 ...I'm only half kidding😆 Great videos, can't wait for this install/proof of concept video!
First thought I had. I worked in a Steel heat treat plant and all we did was rocker arms. It's not rocket science to get the right hardness but I am sure we shipped some bad batches. Tested all day long but even if they were close they shipped.
So a high volume oil pump (Hellcat), and an aftermarket cam (Comp Cams for instance), when doing this would probably bullet proof it then? I love your content. I had a 2016 Charger Pursuit and traded it due to cold feet with all its ticks. Had I knew then what I've learned from your channel and others, I would've kept it and serviced it like this.
My wife's 2015 ram 5.7 had a lifter go bad at 60,000kms and the dealership replaced all the lifters on the one side, they said that the cam was not damaged. When the lifter failed it was not gradual, it happened at once with the loud ticking noise. If it wasn't for the warranty, I would have sold it on the spot. We still have it and it hasn't given me anymore issues, the mileage is now 135000kms. Thanks for this video, I have a better understanding of what is going on with the cam and lifters.
Wow! This is absolutely spot on Sky! I agree the oil does not get to the upper area of the engine at low idle; hence the issue. Can one upgrade to an after market cam that is identical to Mopar's, but hardened? Not sure if that is even worth it though. Thank you so much for this update!
Thanks to this channel I upgraded my 2021 DS RAM classic (sold in Australia converted to right hand drive) I noticed low oil pressure - only at idle - once the engine was at operating temperature - it was OK oil pressure everywhere else. I put the new Hellcat higher volume oil pump in and it fitted perfectly. Voila higher oil pressure everywhere but especially at idle. The only difference between the example video and my install was there was many more brackets around the 4WD and transmission on the RAM 1500 then passenger cars. But it all comes apart OK *Engine Sump HAD to come Out. Front axle HAD to be lowered. I also found on my truck a faulty Oring (from the factory) the Oring on the oil pick up tube was damaged - so I replaced that I found some metal shavings. In the sump probably from manufacture as my car had only done 6000klm from new Another fault arose the check engine light would come on. What fixed that was changing to 0w-20w oil. The check engine light would come on using 5w-30 Go back to 0w-20 and it stayed off (Reset by disconnecting starter battery negative terminal for a minute) That’s what I learned and I am glad I did the upgrade
Good news! The Hellcat oil pump bolts right up. Part# 68195993AD. And don't forget a new O-ring. Part# 53020861. Should be less than $140 for both and easy to change or pretty cheap to have someone do it for you. However, a cam swap is not so cheap or easy.
Thanks for posting this, I am in the process of my 6.4L upgrade and just ordered a hellcat oil pump, I'll post how the fit looks when I receive it. I am eager to try this.
The hellcat pump has arrived and from an external physical comparison to the old 6.4L pump, it looks exactly the same. Seems it will bolt on just fine. I'm going to post a video about this in a bit. I am eager to get the build finished and try it out.
@@solargarage The photos side by side look identical, which puzzles me, how does a pump the exact same size make more volume? Usually higher volume oil pumps are larger, simply because you need more volume inside the pump to pump more volume. Is it thicker in some way for a thicker gerotor (ring) inside, or perhaps the ring inside it a larger diameter?
@@solargarage If the rotors were thicker, than the pump would have to be thicker. I found a video of opening up the hellcat oil pump and posted it in another part of the thread. The gearotor has more teeth than stock, changing the ratios of volume. i.e. more volume in the same size package.
2012 model I just tore down and I had one bad lifter but there where 4 other lobes on the cam starting to flake, the rest of the lifters where in good shape yet I think you are correct on the cam being the problem
That has to be a higher volume pump. Just changing the relief spring won't do that. The Melling Hi-Performance Pump, does increase volume by 4%, so it is just slightly higher volume than stock, but swaps out the spring in the relief valve. So it would just be slightly higher pressure than the stock pump, as rpm builds and pressure builds, the stock pump would go no higher than 55 or 65 PSI, while the Melling pump would allow it to keep building as rpm went up to 75PSI. Don't forget, if you're old pump is worn it would flow less and make less pressure at all rpms, so you could simple be recovering 10-15psi throughout the entire rpm simply because the old pump lost that volume from wear.
@to35bro I have also seen posts from folks saying they tried the Hellcat oil pump and it won't fit. What year and vehicle is your Hemi, there are differences in the engine and oiling system over the years and vehicles they were put in, that might make a difference in the Hellcat pump fitting or not.
@@jmihalchik98 But what is your idle oil pressure? The issue is more oil pressure (and thus flow) at idle, the lifters aren't failing at higher rpm, generating 90 PSI oil pressure at high rpm isn't helping your engine and just subtracting power from the engine to make more oil pressure than you need.
I totally agree with you!... The condition can be solved a lot easier with a high volume oil pump and have always believed this was the original issue!... Another big problem is that the heads are aluminum and the block is steel, so they heat/thaw differently causing the cast iron exhaust manifold to also heat/thaw differently, which leads to snapping the exhaust manifold bolts. One way to remedy this is to buy stainless steel headers that are to factory specifications (quality shorties) that are direct bolt up! You will not only get better gas mileage, but also reduce significant weight. It will cost you about 4 or 5 hundred for the parts, but it's well worth doing to reduce future havoc of bolts snapping inside the heads! I use a good quality tonneau cover on my truck to increase gas mileage on my truck (RAM 4x4 5.7L). Thank you so much for addressing these problems! I will definitely look into a higher volume oil pump!
03-08 Hemi rollers are affected just as much as later engines are, don't know where you get that idea from. Many 3rd Gen Hemi engines mushroom out the pushrod tips and have lazy lifter noise every now and then. Me personally I have gone through 3 sets of non mds lifters on my 04 Ram.
I was interested in the start-up tick. I have had three 5.7's and now 6.4 all three of the 5.7's had a start-up tick. The 6.4 so far has been fine, there is some very mild valve train noise, but nothing in my opinion abnormal. 1 - 5.7 M, 2 - 5.7 A the 6.4 is a manual.
Totally agree.. and love the Hellcat pump upgrade idea.. but I think one fact missing for some of these failures is the choice of oil used in these Hemi's .. they need specific standards and unfortunately folks think the grade is all it takes.. my 6.4 HD called for a specific synthetic oil in a specific grade. What are your thoughts 🤔
What I saw from the short clip of the cam and lifter from the 2010 Chally in the early stages of failure show me 100% the roller in the lifter failed first. Don't blame that one on lobe hardening issues.
I agree with your premise that there was likely a hardening issue, but I’m suspicious that the hardening issue was with the needle bearings not the cam. In your footage you showed of the cam lobe at the beginning stages of failure, the roller in the lifter is already considerably loose. I’d postulate that the roller is locking up and that’s what is damaging the cam. Chicken/egg I know, but that’s where my money would be. It would certainly be easy enough to take the cam to a shop with a hardness tester and get some qualified data to add to the conversation.
Excellent white board session explaining you’re theory on why the Hemi Tick is occurring and exactly what is failing, why? And what is you’re solution to this problem. I still always go back to what an FCA Corporate representative informed me. He said it all goes back to people not maintaining their Hemi engines regularly….
As for the oil pump, a couple yrs. back I replaced the timing chain set in my 2005 Dodge Magnum Hemi at about 100,000 miles. While I thought about replacing the oil pump while in there, instead I disassembled the pump and wet sanded the gears in there and the pump housing. Before the wet sanding, the clearance between housing and gears was about .004" after sanding about .00075". Just enough clearance not to bind. Anyway after completing the job, I realized I had significantly higher oil pressure at idle. In fact enough to get the dtc for wrong oil viscosity! Even using proper 5-20 oil. I have done the same wet sanding clearancing on other oil pumps in the past with good results.
@@BdeJJG Still fine on oil pump. The DTC for wrong oil viscosity still comes up when I read the codes but does not light up the check engine light. Great oil pressure even at idle.
10/11/2021 Good Info. My brother has a hemi in his 1 ton. No issues yet but now we will know what is what to stop the shade tree guys from a lot of unnecessary upgrades and milling. Some shops can screw up a one car funeral with add ons. Good one Don
I own a 2020 Ram 5.7 with very little milage and I’m very impressed with the Hemi. I’m not too worried about lifter failure aswell dropped seats but I’m curious if there were any significant changes to the valve seat issue or the size of the needle bearings in the lifters to help correct these problems?
After thinking about this some more, since we have seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause. Maybe the lifter bearings were improperly hardened or the clearances were incorrect and the bearings seized inside the rollers or the pin holding the roller was bad somehow.
On my second cam lifter replacement on a 2011 5.7. This makes perfect sense and yes mine is a high idle time truck. First one at 168000 this one 70,000 or so later. Great video, thanks…
Thank you for the informative video. However, I am not sure how a soft cam shaft would cause the roller bearing followers to fail. It would appear to me that the roller bearings fail and the damage caused to the camshaft is secondary. It seems that somehow the needle bearings begin to slide, rather than roll or they take an impact load causing them to flatten, and then they fail initially. I don’t believe engine oil is designed to provide protection for this type of sliding wear or metal to metal contact. Engine oil is designed to always provide a boundary film of oil through viscosity. Unlike gear oils that have additives to protect metals from sliding wear and impact. (I believe molybdenum is one of these gear oil additives.) It would seem to me that the introduction of MDS has something to do with the action of the roller bearings. It’s just too coincidental that these issues arose at the same time!
Gerry, this was my exact thought. I dont believe a soft cam would cause lifters to fail. MANY of these 5.7s have been shown to have lifter bearings completely smoked. The tick is the lifter slapping the cam, from having play from the bearings being worn and destroyed. Far be it for me to question a Chrysler mechanic... but it makes no sense. What DOES make sense and seems to be the common denominator either way, is high idling times. My 2014 has probably idled more than it should have, but nothing like a fleet vehicle or squad car. Im currently at 134k miles and she still runs great, but does have a mild tick. I just replaced exhaust manifolds and spark plugs after P0219 and P0303 codes(misfire cylinder 3 and mixture issues), will see now if the codes clear. Again, runs smooth, but light tick is there. Im no mechanic, but I can do a lot myself, and Im seriously considering pre-emptively replacing the cam and lifters myself. Before any major issues.
Hey In 1986 The oil pressure dropped to zero in my 1979 K5 Blazer 5.7 engine. I opted for the high volume instead of high pressure. The engine only had regular hydraulic lifters not rollers. One guy said something about hardness of lifters. What’s the hardness of high performance roller lifters and cams in race engines. More volume would help with constant oil. Excellent video
I pretty much watch all these "Hemi Tick" videos, cause I'm a Dodge guy and believe in repairing what's broke. While diagnosing this problem, like you said, you can't leave out the FACT that oiling, however distributed, isn't a problem. Among the smaller to larger roller neddle bearings and cam hardening, all petraining to the oil. SO my question is, why not just use, say a cam and lifters for the 2003-2008 models? Wouldn't the cams from 2009 on up, STILL fail because of the lack of hardening, even with a higher volume pump? All the smart UA-camrs, including UTG, seem to agree, it's an oiling problem but with your theory, wouldn't that make it a cam manufacturer probelm? To properly fix this, a new style cam and oiling system would be needed. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for the content.
My wife and I purchased a 2006 jeep commander 5.7 Hemi engine Trail Rated brand new from our local dealer in New Mexico. This last week we had a head gasket on the front passenger side leaking a little antifreeze the engine has 198000 miles. We have always changed the oil when the time came. We noticed while starting up the engine had a knocking sound coming from the engine. We thought it might be internal but when I removed the intake manifold and exhaust manifold then I removed the heads and found the bolts broke on the manifold guards. That's where the knocking noise was coming from. The valves, roods, pistons and the lifters looked really good except a little carbon built up on top of the pistons and a little on the face of the valves and the spark plugs were very clean. The valve cover gaskets were cracked and dried out and the coil pack gaskets was cracked and dried out. I rebuilt this engine with an engine kit from the heads up to the intake and new fuel injector o rings. This 5.7 Hemi engine has been a good one every since we purchased the jeep commander.
Thank you for your continued education on this topic. Have you made any attempts to verify your hypothesis by testing the hardness of the the cams and compared to previous generations?
I agree that they do have tick issues on the earlier engines as well, but it seems like it's not the same issue. I've seen a lot of the older lifters have issues with the hydraulic portion, which causes a tick, but they aren't really having a problem with the roller on the lifter failing. At least that's been my experience, in no way am I saying I've seen it all. 👍
Came across this video and agreed with everything you said. But I happen to prevent the hemi tick on my 2012 ram 5.7 by simply changing the oil weight. I have been using 10w-40 for years now and truck is at 221,000 miles. No issues no problems what so ever. My oil pressure never have I seen drop below 48psi hot idle and drives around 54psi. Better psi than most people post on Facebook. Like I said truck is bone stock no tunes no nothing internal done. MDS is disabled and 10w-40 oil is what I use. Also got a 180tstat.
Assuming the cause is inadequate oil pressure at low rpm, why not just step up to an oil with a heavier grade at operating temperature (go from 5W-20 to -30 or -40)? It will achieve the same effect as the high volume pump without the need to tear into the engine. I have had excellent luck to date on my '16 Ram 1500 running Shell Rotella Gas Truck 0W-20 Synthetic with NAPA Gold filters. I have found the Mopar filters to have issues with leaking drain back valves which caused intermittent lifter noise on cold startup until the oil pressure came up. Former Chrysler tech.
I'm going to add extra oil to lifters by installing aluminum valve covers and welding on some drippers over the push rods. Old Chevy L88 Ls7 Ls6 motors had these to help out the Oiling of the mechanical lifter system.
Oil pumps do NOT make pressure, they move volume. Pressure is a measurement of restriction. Furthermore, if you say its a cam hardening issue, explain the failing roller on the lifter.
High volume pumps make more pressure for any given RPM below the relief point by forcing a larger volume through the same restriction. He described it correctly, and in both theory and actual practice, a high volume oil pump WILL raise your oil pressure at every point below the relief setting. The RPM at which the relief pressure is hit will also be lower (as he showed on his graph).
For my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7 liter gen 3 Hemi I have been using 6 quarts 10w30 Valvoline Advanced full synthetic with a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer Pure synthetic, and the Mopar 090 filter. I change the oil and filter around 4,000 miles and the engine sounds good at over 159,000 miles. It makes noise until it is warmed up bavause it has broken exhaust bolt but with the heat the exhaust swells enough to stop the leak.
If it is a hardening issue on the cams then wouldn’t that also mean that temperature factor? Excessive heat built up usually occurs at idle, which explains why the oil can’t keep up and cams may get hot enough to where they ware down. On my Ram I noticed they added a factory auxiliary oil cooler. I also went to a larger oil filter in a remote location and runs 2-3 degrees cooler.
This is a great video and definitely a solution to a problem. My 2005 hemi ram has had the tick for a decade. I know 1 oil change I did and it looked like gold glitter at a strip club in there. Who knew the hemi was having a stripper party inside. I wanna say it's a rod bearing thats failing. But my truck is still running to this day and I run a heavier oil weight. If I do decide to rebuild this motor. It will be a major overhaul and probably going to run me 6 to 8 grand with the upgrades. 271,000 miles and still going.
Owner of a '13 Hemi Ram. So would a cam/lifter upgrade be a good work around? (I am not experiencing any tick yet with 150k miles) and if so, what's a good mild performance setup? What cost estimate would I be looking at for parts and labor?
On my 09 Ram I installed hellcat lifters, non-mds cam= 3/4 ton stock cam, shimmed stock oil pump, drilled out head gasket oil holes by .030” which restrict oil to heads and run a cleanable high flow oil filter $. Now I have really good oil pressure.
I have a 2015 ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi. The filler cap says 5w-20 but the manual says 5w-30. I have been running 5w-30 the majority of the life of my engine. currently have 243000 miles on my truck. I have had no issues with the cam and lifters as of yet, after watching your previous video stating the hellcat pump should be a good fix. I tried an experiment. I ran 5w-20 for two oil changes or 6000 miles. Afterwards I switched back tot he 5w-30, i noticed at idle speeds the oil pressure was significantly lower. When i say significantly lower I am saying almost 10 psi lower at idle. So I would suggest running the 5w-30 per the manual over the 5w-20 shown on the filler cap. Of course I am not a professional, and I may be doing more harm than good to my truck. however outside of valve cover gaskets, and a water pump, I have not had any major mechanical issues regarding the engine. (Knock on wood)
Great advice I have a 2013 ram 5.7 I did Change out the oil pump for the Hellcat oil pump, it took my rear seal. I think the reason it had 216k miles on it. I believe the seal was old couldn't handle the higher pressure.
Thanks for the vid. Very, very informative. I've been seriously thinking about trading my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat but if I'm going to keep it I will definitely get the Hellcat pump. I've been freaked out ever since I heard of the "Hemi Tick". Do you think the hardening issue is across the board? I mean, if they aren't hard enough but are supposed to be hardened to a higher spec, do you think it's all of them or could some of them be to spec and others not?
I think melling makes a high volume oil pump for the hemi engines. I also agree that a HV oil pump is a better solution then writing a high idle tune. Enjoying all these hemi videos. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the information, Skye. Graphs and charts grab and keep my attention. Have a question about oil filters having a by-pass valve - will this affect system oil pressure and if so, is there a preferred replacement? Mopar factory replacement, Wix, etc? Finally, is there another oil pressure limiting valve in the engine oiling system?
I’ve rebuilt 2 hemis so far from blown police cars, you are 100% right. Also, I have a 6.1 srt charger they also have higher oil pressure than a 5.7. I also run 5w30 oil and they seem to like it more in warm weather at least. This kicks up the oil pressure which is also what I believe is the issue like you, I get about 30-35 psi at idle which is much better than with 5w20. I hope your channel explodes man lots of useful info on here! My grandparents have a 09 Chrysler aspen with 280k miles no problems ever while over towing it’s entire life, they are wonderful engines and I did the 392 cam swap in my latest police car and it is wonderful your precious video convinced me to do it.
Maybe just maybe mopar should take responsibility and change or ensure proper hardness of the cam in manufacturing and redesign a higher volume oil pump. Owning up to there mistake. If it were me I would swap out the cam with one of longer duration and better heat treating for hardness. I'm sure those cams are probably made in china oops did I say that!
@@Jon-O. you could be right. Next time I do a camshaft I'll check the box and see if it says where its from. I know many of the parts are made in Mexico, some from Canada, and yes, some from china. There's definitely no such thing as a domestic brand nowadays.
@@ReignitedAuto yeah used to piss me off when I would machine stuff for our military only to find out Chinese Corporation designed it on the prints what are we effing morons.
@ReignitedAuto The oil pressure reading in the car (2016 Durango RT) shows a max of ~6x psi when driving and idle drops to as low as ~35 psi warm. Is this accurate or in range of pump performance?
Melling has both a high volume and high pressure pumps for the 5.7 and 6.4. I can agree with the higher vol at idle would be a benefit but it also adds other issues, aside from having to use the matching pickup tube. The one issue would be any type of high rpm usage with a stock oil pan has a good potential of sucking the pan dry causing oil aeration, pumping the valve covers full of oil etc. Another one I need to point out is the MDS system, it has issues with higher oil pressure and volume then stock if you do not turn it off. The hellcat oil pump is the in between pump. Thicker pump rotor then a stock replacement pump but they are not as thick as an aftermarket high vol pump and keeps the stock approx 65psi rating.
Thank you for this Video. I just bought a 2016 1500 ram with 92xxx and it's running great now and all this talk about issues has me a bit worried I might be experiencing this in the next 20xxx miles.
The answer for me was to install Comp Cam stage 2 and Hellcat lifrers. No mor MDS. The cam of course is billet as the old cam was ductile. 3 years , no peoblems idling as much as i want. But , with gas prices now , idling is bad for your $$$. Nice horspower gain and tuner changed the shifts to badass new heights. Fun to drive.
Since 2003 we have reduced the amount of ZDDP in motor oil by siginicant levels. The need for ZDDP in motor oil is critical as the ZDDP lubricates ferous metals under heavy pressure. The lack of ZDDP will help peel the hardening off of a cam shaft. I have a 2014 SRT8 Challenger with a 6.4L engine. I add 6 ounces of ZDDP with SAE 5E40 Full Synthetic. I have had no engine issues at this point. I also turned off my MDS. Plate C
Another great video! My daughter has a 2020 1500 Warlock Hemi and I told to avoid long idling periods because of the “potential” issues down the road. I wish you would dive into the Ecodiesel engine a bit. I know you don’t like it but it would be very informative for us owners. I just hit 60K and I am worried. Everyone say “delete it” Not sure I want the EPA knocking on my door 🤷🏻♂️ I’m seriously considering a 2022 2500 reg cab 4X4 Hemi. Waiting for the market to correct itself. Not pay 3K plus over window on a new truck.
Ive been in fleet for 30 plus years and have had worked with emission style diesels in big rigs and medium duty trucks. Try this product in your fuel.....DPF Remedy. It will cut the soot by 80+% and reduce the soot loading inside engine and through the emission system. Reduce the soot, reduce the regen cycles, reduce the breakage and heat. Then run Schaeffers Supreme 9000 full synthetic....itll keep everything nice and clean
I just watched another one of your videos on the Hemi lifters and left a comment. YT directed me to this video and I 100% agree and this is a large part of what I said on the other video.. lol.... Great minds..... ;)
This just happened to my Jeep 5.7L. I just got the cam and lifters out tonight. Just one lifter (non-MDS) has the needle bearing ground down and the lobe wiped. There is no scuffing on the lifter bores, no crud, deposits or varnish, i.e. no sign of bad oil or going to long between oil changes. I use synthetic oil and change it when the PCM Dash reminder goes off. After wiping the cam and lifters down, I can now see almost every lobe has galling at the peak of the lobe, even a 2nd lobe that has started to grind down with a roller width depression below the rest of the lobe surface, perhaps 0.010"-0.020". The lifter rollers surface are less galled, scuffed some, looks far better than the peak of the lobes, but the needle bearings seem fine. I can now see why RR is speculating about CAM hardness, cause besides the one destroyed lifter and lobe, all the other lobes look to be wearing/damaged worse than the lifter. BUT, I still think the CAM Phaser and associated parts of VVT are an overlooked possible culprit in this issue. I also found the wires to the connector to my VVT Oil Control Solenoid were folded over and twisted, when I unfolded and untwisted the wires the bare wires were exposed. I don't know for sure they were crossed and shorted, I did not have a CEL or Fault Code for the solenoid, nor do I know if one exists. But funny that I could have likely had a shorted VVT control solenoid, and my Cam wiped.
12’ 5.7 grand Cherokee and it definitely has this tic, and it definitely it the psi at idle, I’ve literally been concerned when looking at my oil psi while sitting idle. And when ever I’m idle at a light that’s when the tic occurs most frequently. Once I get up to 2000 rpm it stops.
My 2011 hemi pickup wiped the cam out at 156k miles. There were none available from the dealer or parts house at the time. I sent the cam to a camshaft rebuilder and they welded up the lobes that were bad and reground them to stock. The grinder told me that it was the softest camshaft he had ever ground. 100k miles later a different lobe went flat. At that point I was able to get an aftermarket camshaft and it has been good for the last 60k miles. Just my hemi experience though.
My ‘13 Ram has less than 90 idle hours and I had this issue on the #5 exhaust lobe & lifter. Never missed an oil change. From reading, #5 seems common to fail but I know others do too. If the issue was QC or metallurgy it would be / should be equally random on all cylinders. Some folks bash the lifters but FCA couldn’t have installed just bad ones on cylinder #5, #3, etc. The hardening, or lack thereof, should be equally distributed also. It has to be an oiling anomaly related to the block. My bad lifter was oily but not drenched and dripping like those on the right side.
Back in the 80s GM had a problem with Chev V8 flat cams. They had changed the way the cams were hardened (I believe from flame to induction hardening). Their cams were going flat everywhere.
Please watch my NEWEST video to get the very latest info on this issue!
ua-cam.com/video/1gpEwkTVCmE/v-deo.htmlsi=Zh-s2MnZE5fdGmmM
Wondering about oil. Saw video on UA-cam about fixing tick. Person fixed the problem by going 5w30 weight engine oil from factory recommended 0w20. What do you think ? Thanks
@ReignitedAuto. What are your thoughts on the metal running through the oiling system. My sons 13 Ram is in this condition. My concern is with all the metal in the oil and it’s not much more to pull the motor and do a full rebuild. Cam, crank and rod bearing cleaning oil passages etc.
@MiguelSanchez-nd4bv Chrysler's official answer to this: pull the oil control valve solenoid under the intake and look at the screen on the solenoid. If there a bunch of metal on the screen you'll need to go through the whole engine, but if the screen is clear you can just do the cam/lifters and be fine. 👍
Instead of the hellcat oil pump for my 2015 5.7 could I use melling m462 oil pump that’s for 6.4l? Just curious
@@AR5_chasepeace use the Melling M452HV pump 👍
Yes, the Hellcat oil pump bolts up to engine perfectly and so does the oil pick up tube. I just did this last month.
Does said oil pump bolt up to the 6.1 block and will it work with that timing/crank setup?
@@03mm24 I'm not sure about the 6.1. I have a 5.7 in a 2014 charger pursuit. I know it is supposed to work with the newer 5.7s and 6.4s.
@@CyberDragonAGD ok...another question, does your 5.7 have the cam phaser built in the cam gear?
@@03mm24 Yes
@@CyberDragonAGD ok the 6.1s don't so I'm seeing some differences
Nice! W
Happy your back on this topic. Next video: how to install a Hellcat large displacement oil pump on a 5.7 Hemi.
It's coming soon-ish 😄
@@ReignitedAuto You can also install a Mildon high flow oil pump at idle my 5.7 sits at about 45 PSI of oil pressure on the highway I run approx 80 PSI of oil pressure. But from the few hemi cams I have looked at on number 5 we have noticed skip marks in the cam lobe which looks like to low of spring pressure on the valvetrain.
@@weaselsmopar6843 My stock oil pump with 128k miles on it, produces 48 PSI off idle and 56 PSI on the highway. I don't need 80 PSI on the highway, I need more oil pressure at idle. I get 34 PSI at idle, in higher temperatures I have seen drop as low as 27 PSI at idle. Swapping out the pressure relief spring on basically the same pump, will give you higher pressure at higher rpm, but won't do anything at idle. The whole point of the video was higher oil pressure at idle, no one has identified a problem with the stock 55-60 PSI at higher rpm causing any problems.
@@rickanderson8088 You can use a higher volume pump to increase pressure at idle, then if you don't want it on kill, you can put a lower pressure relief spring in it to lower the high side pressure.
@@jakesampson9106 And that is exactly what I'm doing. Just got a Hellcat pump and swapped the pressure relief spring with the OEM spring for the 5.7L. The pressure relief mechanism is identical, the outside of the pump is identical, the hellcat pump has an 1/8" thicker rotor and more vanes in the rotor, the case is a little thinner to fit the bigger rotor in the same case.
Absolute Gospel Advice. 10/10. I drive a Jeep Commander 06 Hemi in the UK on LPG. Not a sports car, and not young but a beautiful beast. I love the engine and look after it. I advise ALL viewers to watch this chaps videos, as it’s all done to earth, straight forward and entertaining. Well done! Don’t be put off with teething problems with a Hemi, and try to watch all these Hemi videos before a future purchase too. It’s a stunning engine and a engineering classic - lets keep Hemi’s alive no matter where you are in the world! “…And yes, this Baby’s got a Hemi!”
Dan what LPG system are you running on your hemi?
8 less spark plugs would be the best modification ever...
My 3rd gen, Non MDS in a 2500 with a 6sp manual still makes the old dodge worth hanging on to....bought new in 06..
Thank you for your service brah. As a man who owns three hemi engines, your videos have been invaluable to me.
As a mechanic it’s good to see somebody putting the right information out I have a 5.7 hemi right now rebuilding it …Thank you
Finally, someone on the same page as myself. I have been saying it's an oil supply issue forever. These lifters being oiled backwards is not widely known. The oil supply is extremely limited after it travels all the way through the block, up through the heads, through the rocker assemblys, and down the pushrods. Hot idle time is a big killer.
Great video. If you go to Rockauto, I chose a 2017 Challenger with a 5.7 at random, go to "engine" and "oil pump", it has a Melling high performance oil pump, #10452, it comes with an optional higher pressure spring. The Mopar pump #'s are indeed different for the 5.7 and 6.2's.
Always put your car in neutral, if your sitting for more than a few seconds.
I've seen my oil pressure in the teens, when it's hot out idling in drive.
A little rev here and there doesn't hurt either.
What is the difference between "Neutral" and "Park" to the engine?
@@MH3GL Nothing. You'd be good in either one, but it's faster and easier to shift back into Drive From Neutral than from Park.
@@MaxwellAirsoftRealthanks 👍
Someone else also mentioned using the tow/haul button*
After tearing into 4 of these engines so far I realised the exact same thing. The crank driven pump needs to put out more pressure at idle. A well regulated engine will drop down to 600 rpms at idle , on brake, in gear with no accessories running. Putting a 180 thermostat in effects the oil temperature by lower the temperature of the engine on temporarily. According to the Guage across several vehicles averages 35lbs at idle. Increasing the rpms to 1000 gives an average of 50 lbs. Aftermarket lifters generally have a hole behind the roller (not helping) maintaining pressure in effect bleeding oil pressure from the galley. 35lbs would be borderline on most conventional engines of the past under normal operation. The rail system is fed through a diffrent section, as the lower section of the engine has its segregated oil passages. As the engines oil temp increases the viscosity changes. This results in thinner hotter oil . Thermal expansion of parts starts to have a factor in the fit tolerance and flow rate. If the oil temp exceeds the coolant temperature, as witnessed ,the tapping is more prominent. Hot motor more tick! I wonder if a well regulated oil cooling system wouldn't help more , since changing the weight is not an option? Tuning the vehicles idle several hundred rpms will provide a supplemental boost...P.S. life long subscriber here.
That may be why Chrysler added an oil cooler above the oil filter on newer hemi engines such as the one in the Ram,I don't know if the other vehicle models equiped with the 5.7 and up got them as well but I do know that the Ram did,also the smaller engines did as well,so I agree with you,the engineers had also thought about lowering the oil temperature or at least keeping the oil at the same temperature as the coolant,like the video said,the new revised lifter is still failing.
You must run heavier oil like 5w30 in any climate. Even THICKER like 5w40 in hotter climates. The 5w20 IS DEFINETLY one of the problems. Add in the fact that they keep reducing the Zinc in the oil and it just makes things even worse.
@@larrydunlop378 I live in Texas, you honestly think a thicker weight would wprk
@@matthewluna727 I personally wouldnt and wont run 5w20 in any engine. 5w30 is the lightest I run. I live in a much much colder climate than you in Texas! People say that thicker oil will give engine codes and wont let the mds system work properly, Not true. Ive been running 5w30 since 2014 with Zero codes and my mds system works like new. In a hot climate like yours I would run 5w40. 5w20 flows like water at 50° can you imagine how thin it is when the engine runs at almost 200° ?
@@larrydunlop378 your right!! I have a Jeep hemi and Jeep pentastar, both with around 120k miles, both engines run good now… well decent, but I want to keep these cars as long as possible, especially with price of everything, you think both the hemi and pentastar (v6) stock oil pumps can push that thick viscosity around the block? Should I upgrade the pumps like this guy recommends? Then add thicker oil
I sold my hemi, but I still come to watch your videos
Volume vs pressure... I always thought more pressure was the solution, it's not. Volume is the solution. Thank you for another very informative video
Volume and pressure are directly related. More volume with the same resistance will raise pressure, you can't produce more pressure with the same resistance without more Volume. Notice how he showed you the Hi-Pressure Pumps on the market are just the same volume with a stronger pressure relief valve. That just means the pressure relief opens later so at high rpm you get more pressure, simply because the pressure relief opens later. You want more pressure at idle and low rpm, the hi-pressure pump does nothing, pressure is exactly the same as the standard pump at idle and low rpm.
It would be awesome if you could try this on video. Like get your hands on both pumps, give us an overview of the differences and try it on a 5.7 to see if this works. It could be huge!
I'm seeing posts on the internet contradicting each other, "I tried the Hellcat Pump, it won't fit" and "I have a Hellcat Pump in 5.7L Hemi right now". There are many changes to the Hemi over the years, especially with the VVT, and they are different among the trucks, the cars and the Jeeps. So it may be a case it works for some years of Hemi's in some applications and won't work for other years or applications. i.e. works for a 2011 Truck but won't work in a 2011 Jeep.
@@rickanderson8088 VVT is used for idle controls i think 🤔on dodge's V8's so its a useful thief, making sense FCA was cheap and didn't upgrade to a larger oil engine pump at the time of the VVT change
@@richardprice5978 they did upgrade the oil pump to 25% higher volume when they went to VVT, the question is, was it enough? AFA as it being idle control? Well, that is one way to look at it. It's really a schema to improve engine performance and economy without suffering the drawback of a really rough idle or high idle speed.
@@rickanderson8088 running 4 or 1 cylinder vs all V8 raises the cylinder pressures and stabilise the lower RPM's aka idling and changing valve timing does as well so it doesn't stall or hunt ect. and yes it can lead to more power but on average the max-pump of 60~ ( needed for LSX phaser's is 200-1500 as my educated guess ) PSI isn't enough for 5K-rpm's so up top phaser engine's lose power
I think that is the best explanation on the Hemi cam issue I've hear. It shows how much you know your stuff and are great at being able to present/explain it great. To bad this has become such a "black eye" for the Hemi when it is such a great and strong platform.
My '12 Challenger R/T w/manual 6 speed trans now has over 125,000 miles on it after the last road trip. It shows no signs of letting up, and has always had a very mild "ticking" noise(very similar to a set of quiet solid lifters)in the engine. Not too many other people would even notice it, but, having been a professional mechanic myself for 35+ years, it's just my 2nd nature to hear noises like that.
Our '14 Chrysler 300C w/5.7 hemi, same deal, 67K on this car and no ticking other than hearing injectors firing when running. It has served us well since we bought it in early 2019 used from a dealer in CA(original owner kept oil/filter changed every 5K miles from new according to carfax report).
Great video, thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us!
Pumps don't make pressure, they create flow. Resistance to flow creates pressure.
But the end result is correct. Good job!
You are correct!
Ive always wondered if the higher pressures work to fix the issue because there are squirters involved. Like putting your thumb over a running water hose....less flow, more pressure, but note how far the water "squirts" compared to just running out at full flow. FWIW thicker oil will show higher idle pressures, whether its actually getting to more places because of it I dont know. And as mentioned above literally 50-100RPM change in idle speed brings the pressure up to something really good. I found evidence a long time ago that Chrysler had different PCM flashes with different idle RPM values. 580, 600, 750, etc. I feel like even just 750 would be good, my truck idles at about 600 right now.
@@pantygnome Thicker Oil (i.e. greater viscosity and viscosity is the measure of its resistance to flow) will increase pressure in the same conditions. So you get greater pressure, at the cost of less flow, and that less flow might be impacting parts of the engine negatively. Very worn engines, that have opened up space in their bearings will have less resistance to flow, that is why their oil pressure drops, switching to higher viscosity oil to get oil pressure back in the specs should result in close to the spec flow, so in that case win, win. But in the case of I just want higher oil pressure in an engine that is not worn enough to need it, you're playing a guessing game of if the oil pressure at the expense of less flow is helping more than it is hurting. I think you are saying that as well, just trying to explain it better.
Yep, but I don't blame him for explaining it the way he does, for most people to understand. I am very frustrated by the people that buy off on the marketing propaganda about the "Hi Performance Hi-Pressure Oil pump" out there for the Hemi they saying a higher volume oil pump is not what you need, you need more pressure. ugg. You want more oil pressure at idle, putting a higher pressure relief spring in basically the same pump, won't do that, idle oil pressure will be the same, it will just give you more oil pressure at high rpm when you don't need that at all.
I use 5w30 pure synthetic, 6 quarts. And put one quart of Lucas synthetic oil stabilizer in it.
My idle oil psi at running temp is 38 psi
At highway speeds it’s in the mid 50’s.
No codes at all and the MDS works just fine.
I personally believe 5w20 is too thin at operating temperatures and the only reason manufacturers use it and recommend it, is to squeeze out a tiny bit better fuel economy.
Thinner oil = less resistance
As an owner of both a 6.2 and 6.4, I appreciate the continued discussion of this topic. One thing I have noticed from the gauges is that my 6.2 hot idle pressure is always 4-5 psig higher than the 6.4 at the same conditions, lending credence to the notion the pump may have slightly larger gears (higher volume).
Good info, a lot of us also switch to the Melling oil pump.
I "believe", so correct me if I'm wrong. The 6.2L supercharged engine has oil squirters added under the pistons to handle the greater heat. This would need a higher volume oil pump just to keep up with the higher demand to make the same oil pressure as the other engines. Thus if you were to use that Hellcat pump in the lower oil volume demand versions of the engine (the5.7L and 6.4L) it should produce more than the 4-5 PSIG you see.
Being low volume of oil is the problem restriction of flow from the paper or cellulose oil filters are the cause. I just bought a $76,000 2022 Ram 1500 Limited 4x4 5.7 Etorque and at 1,000 miles I changed the oil to Amsoil 0W20 and replaced the oil filter to a Kand P engineering stainless Steel mesh reusable oil filter that cleans down to 5 microns (also FAA Approved for Aircraft) but, allows for 7 times more volume of oil flow than any other filter on the market. Reducing the back pressure synchronizes the engine to the transmission a little better when your slowing down for a red light your foot is on the break light turns green then accelerate your in the correct gear to much back pressure and its jerky is what I have found. I just found out by accident when testing this filter.. I used it for the last 80,000 miles in my 2015 Ram 1500 3.0 Ecodiesel that I put 180,000 miles on. Advantages are I just clean it and reuse it no more filters to buy and inside the filter is a rare earth magnet that catches metal. I also installed a oil filter relocation kit and a Valvomax drain valve no mess at oil pan now and I don't need a wrench just finger tight, comes with a hose that when screwed on opens the valve. Idling at 500 RPM's with 7 times more flow would solve this issue and even be better than a hellcat oil pump and put my flow rate line almost vertical at 10 psi I will let you know in years to come. Lubrication with the best oil you can find with more flow combined with magnet and most of all cleaning down to 5 micron how can you get better. For only $189 and never buy another filter. I also change my oil every 5,000 miles Vs 10,000 I just cant make myself wait that long, it took a lot for me just to go up to 5k I was a 3k guy because that what my Dad thought me 55 years ago. In 55 years I have never had a blown engine Mom and Dad said don't listen to the radio listen to your truck IDK why I'm telling you all this I guess because I love my truck and my wife is sleeping well I'm hanging up now good night.
I know many of you will disagree with my assessment. I've heard every possible theory from others as to why this is happening, and I'm open to other ideas, however you have to back up your theory with facts, not conjecture. If I hear one more person say, "it's a design flaw and Chrysler should recall it" I'm going to scream 😄
Great video I’m learning more and more as I prepare to rebuild my hemi engine in my 06 300. Thanks any advice on where to buy rebuild kit would be great.
I can agree with the hardening process. I'm just wondering if that process also is applied to the roller and is a contributing factor.
@@jackangel9465 I did my 2013 cam and lifters, I'm a old mechanic. I hada missfire code. The cyld indicated had a bad lifter and a round cam lobe. 3 other cam lobes were in very bad shape, but the lifters on them were like new. It's the cam. I replaced with aftermarket 5000kms ago.
Great video!! Thanks. I have an 09’ Ram 1500 Crew with 132,000 miles in it and it still purrs. I have done the exhaust manifold bolts 2 times and now I just change them out after about 30k miles before they break. It’s a great motor and anything I ever want to know about the Hemi your channel is the first place I go. Thanks you are a great source of information and working knowledge. I also use my truck like a truck and tow a travel trailer about 8k miles a year so it’s worked hard. I do use Amsoil oil and Mobile 1 full synthetic filter and send samples to Blackstone labs every oil change and they give me great reports on oil and filter. I will just keep doing what I’m doing.
@@brentfellers9632 I appreciate the insight. I'm considering replacing the cam in my 2014 challenger. The car only has 12K on it, so no issues so far. I was told the issues weren't with the 5.7 with manual transmissions, but a cam swap will address any scenario.
i have always used HV pumps on my SBC builds so this definitely makes good sence.. I would also add that along with the lower oil pressure at idle is the use of remote starters that encourage people to start their car long before the intend to actually leave. Leaving it idling for much longer than needed.
adding VVT and skip-fire parts added to the oil leak pathway's ( and not small ones as UTC/lunar out law's garage UA-cam video's showed on a 318-SBM dyno as its doing about the same things ) so yes it need more oil that's pressured sounds like maybe FCA 3rd-gen didn't change it and thought 💭they could get away with it, still think the camshaft should be hollow and oil the lobes directly and add spray bar's ect. aka its still got design flaws built in just like the 440/426/gen-2 has to be far but i still like the 60's sowing machine at low idle
personally wishing that the 3rd-gen V8 gets the multi-air systems like the dodge dart tiger-shark engine is using and skip the push rod's and use piping in the cam-valley and 1.5:1 to 2:1 rocker ratio's
Why not take a couple of old cams to a machine shop and have them dimple hardness tested. One from a 2009+ with lifter failure and one from 2008- that doesn't. It leaves a small impression on the spot where your testing but if they are old and being used anymore who cares. They are not the most accurate hardness test but it should give you a good idea if the cam hardness is poorly done.
ProjectFarm uses Mohs hardness pens on his tests all the time. Maybe this guy should get some...
are not the cams and rollers meeting the rockwell hardness tests china made metal .
@@thefinalroman that style of hardness tester only gives reliable results on a flat surface, testing cam lobes with it is pissing in the wind, I have 15 years experience in metrology to know these things... all portable testers will give sketchy results without a flat surface, Jeremie has a better idea getting a proper test done
rebound hardness testers are basically bullshit a half ass shop might have to document a result for someone who wants it to meet a formality or impress people who know nothing about hardess or testing it. Not 1 person I asked ever told me the proper definition of hardness, simply a materials resistance to indentation, scratching is simply not the same thing and mohs pens fall into that best guess territory as well with much fancier portable rebound gear
if anything the scratch pens cannot even be claimed to check hardness at all, only what is referred to as 'superficial hardness' which is not really indicative of the quality of heat treat at all
This single video is enough to truely understand what this issue is, which is nice because I can attest I don't have the Hemi tick.
To me, this makes more sense than anything else. I believe you nailed it.
In addition, FWIW, valve springs need oil for proper cooling, there's a lot of heat generated in the valve springs.
This channel is my go-to place for Hemi tick concerns
So, my 2003 has 80,000 miles, and has this tick. And now, my engine has begun to misfire on start. Pretty soon here, I'm going to rebuild the whole engine, and I'm trying to find the best of everything I can get, so your videos have been very informative and helpful to me, personally. Thank you for all the knowledge, and for the content. I've really enjoyed your channel so far.
80k miles? A complete rebuild? I would confirm the cause of your problem first and make sure it is not a simple fix. You realize you could rebuild the valvetrain without removing the engine from the vehicle, and solve all our problems and rest of the engine not rebuilt would easily last another 220k miles if properly maintained. The cost and effort be 1/2 if not 1/3 of a complete rebuild that likely is totally unnecessary.
@@rickanderson8088 well, originally that was my plan. But one day I popped off the oil pan to replace the oil pan and the two stage gasket, and I saw all the oil, black, sludgy oil cooked to the crankshaft and rods. So, I'm pretty sure the original owner of that engine just didnt change the oil, and I think it the cause of so many issues. Improper maintenance can result in premature wear and tear, so I just chalked it up to that. If you think I can get away with just changing the cam, lifters, pushrods, valves and springs, I'd be happy lol. However I am going to change out for the high volume oil pump off the 6.2L
@@JT-cw8tk Is it a 345 ?
@@dimensionexo. yes
Kool*
Seem like a pretty smart guy about hemis appreciate the video my 2007 5.7 Hemi has 270,000 miles and I don't have any of that issue thanks for the video man
Very interesting take. I have heard the horror stories of the HEMI tick and I get paranoid, like turning off my 2016 RAM 5.7 HEMI while I wait in a drive thru or really in any situation where I would just be sitting and idling. I would be very interested if this worked to try it out.
I have same truck , I use redline 5 - 20 and change at 3000 miles , so far good at this time . 52000 miles .
I use 5 qts pennzoil ultra platinum 2 qts pen plat high mileage 5w30 mobil 1 113a filter ......... quiet as a mouse ..can't feel motor run in drivers seat
16 6.4 hemi i use mobile 1 0w50 every 5k miles, still runs smooth at 90k but hellcat oil pump has me idle at like 35psi hot
@@HansBelphegorso you did the hellcat swap? Do you remember what the hot idle psi was to begin with? I’ve got a 20 5.7 rebel and my hot idle is 31 psi stock.
how is the ram now? have you faced any issue? @@dogbitecompound1675
Absolutely love your knowledge you shared. I’m having lifter issues currently on my 5.7. I was just going stage 3 cam but now I’m upgrading my the oil pump as well
I have a 2009 hemi charger and 2017 hemi Ram. When on 5w20 oil they both idle at about 29 psi. With 5w30 oil they both idle at 34 psi hot. I’ve had no lifter issues from either.
Your Smart to run the heavier oil. I do aswell.
Exactly. Kudos to you!
Excellent, definitely can understand the information. I bought a retired 2014 Charger Police issue with 5.7 with 120k prior to knowing about the issue. I bought it to use for side jobs requiring emergency lights. I had it for almost a year and was on vacation when the had to floor it to o move from being hit. I heard what sounded like a small explosion and heard the dreadful ticking sound. Although faint it did not seem to affect the overall performance till later on. The tick turned into a knocking sound and much more pronounced. Eventually pressure started to decrease. It has been parked since because everyone (Mechanic) I have talked to said that I should not worry about having it repaired and that I should just buy another motor. Sure…on a Police Officers salary…heck throw in a Hellcat motor! Lol. But I would like some solid advise. Thanks for the video!
Really liked the video. However, now that pandora’s box is open, we need a video of the upgrade being done. Looking forward to that. Keep up the great content!
Its coming!
@@ReignitedAuto is it out yet??
@@achakus101 unfortunately no, still getting resettled from the move back to Oregon, soon though, I hope 😄
@@ReignitedAuto you made it out of Oregon and you chose to come back!!😱
...I'm only half kidding😆
Great videos, can't wait for this install/proof of concept video!
Oh dam, oregon...wheres about?
I very seldom look at a video without scrolling thru them. The knowledge you bring is just amazing. Sometimes I look at your video more than once.
I wonder what the rockwell hardiness is on the failed cams and what the factory specs are.
Keep up the good work , love your channel .
First thought I had. I worked in a Steel heat treat plant and all we did was rocker arms. It's not rocket science to get the right hardness but I am sure we shipped some bad batches. Tested all day long but even if they were close they shipped.
Mostly commenting on this to get to 667 comments, but that was probably the best videos about the Hemi tick on UA-cam! Great job!
So a high volume oil pump (Hellcat), and an aftermarket cam (Comp Cams for instance), when doing this would probably bullet proof it then? I love your content. I had a 2016 Charger Pursuit and traded it due to cold feet with all its ticks. Had I knew then what I've learned from your channel and others, I would've kept it and serviced it like this.
My wife's 2015 ram 5.7 had a lifter go bad at 60,000kms and the dealership replaced all the lifters on the one side, they said that the cam was not damaged. When the lifter failed it was not gradual, it happened at once with the loud ticking noise. If it wasn't for the warranty, I would have sold it on the spot. We still have it and it hasn't given me anymore issues, the mileage is now 135000kms. Thanks for this video, I have a better understanding of what is going on with the cam and lifters.
Wow! This is absolutely spot on Sky! I agree the oil does not get to the upper area of the engine at low idle; hence the issue. Can one upgrade to an after market cam that is identical to Mopar's, but hardened? Not sure if that is even worth it though. Thank you so much for this update!
Thanks to this channel I upgraded my 2021 DS RAM classic (sold in Australia converted to right hand drive)
I noticed low oil pressure - only at idle - once the engine was at operating temperature
- it was OK oil pressure everywhere else.
I put the new Hellcat higher volume oil pump in and it fitted perfectly. Voila higher oil pressure everywhere but especially at idle.
The only difference between the example video and my install
was there was many more brackets around the 4WD and transmission on the RAM 1500 then passenger cars. But it all comes apart OK
*Engine Sump HAD to come
Out.
Front axle HAD to be lowered.
I also found on my truck a faulty Oring (from the factory) the Oring on the oil pick up tube was damaged - so I replaced that
I found some metal shavings. In the sump probably from manufacture as my car had only done 6000klm from new
Another fault arose the check engine light would come on.
What fixed that was changing to 0w-20w oil.
The check engine light would come on using 5w-30
Go back to 0w-20 and it stayed off
(Reset by disconnecting starter battery negative terminal for a minute)
That’s what I learned and I am glad I did the upgrade
Good news! The Hellcat oil pump bolts right up. Part# 68195993AD. And don't forget a new O-ring. Part# 53020861. Should be less than $140 for both and easy to change or pretty cheap to have someone do it for you. However, a cam swap is not so cheap or easy.
Thank you for providing the part #'s
When you order the hellcat oil pump does that come with the pick up tube? And also will this interchange on my 2015 6.4L ?
Would this work on my 09 5.7?
The for info. What engine or vehicle did you put pump on?
Best video I’ve seen on the issue and the “real” solution to prevent it or prevent it again. 👍🏼🇨🇦
Thanks for posting this, I am in the process of my 6.4L upgrade and just ordered a hellcat oil pump, I'll post how the fit looks when I receive it. I am eager to try this.
The hellcat pump has arrived and from an external physical comparison to the old 6.4L pump, it looks exactly the same. Seems it will bolt on just fine. I'm going to post a video about this in a bit. I am eager to get the build finished and try it out.
Part number?
@@solargarage The photos side by side look identical, which puzzles me, how does a pump the exact same size make more volume? Usually higher volume oil pumps are larger, simply because you need more volume inside the pump to pump more volume. Is it thicker in some way for a thicker gerotor (ring) inside, or perhaps the ring inside it a larger diameter?
@@rickanderson8088 My understanding is that the the veins in the rotor are thicker, resulting in more volume.
@@solargarage If the rotors were thicker, than the pump would have to be thicker. I found a video of opening up the hellcat oil pump and posted it in another part of the thread. The gearotor has more teeth than stock, changing the ratios of volume. i.e. more volume in the same size package.
2012 model I just tore down and I had one bad lifter but there where 4 other lobes on the cam starting to flake, the rest of the lifters where in good shape yet I think you are correct on the cam being the problem
I added a high pressure pump and my idle psi increased 10-15 psi throughout the entire rpm
75-85 at high rpms
That has to be a higher volume pump. Just changing the relief spring won't do that. The Melling Hi-Performance Pump, does increase volume by 4%, so it is just slightly higher volume than stock, but swaps out the spring in the relief valve. So it would just be slightly higher pressure than the stock pump, as rpm builds and pressure builds, the stock pump would go no higher than 55 or 65 PSI, while the Melling pump would allow it to keep building as rpm went up to 75PSI.
Don't forget, if you're old pump is worn it would flow less and make less pressure at all rpms, so you could simple be recovering 10-15psi throughout the entire rpm simply because the old pump lost that volume from wear.
@to35bro I have also seen posts from folks saying they tried the Hellcat oil pump and it won't fit. What year and vehicle is your Hemi, there are differences in the engine and oiling system over the years and vehicles they were put in, that might make a difference in the Hellcat pump fitting or not.
@@rickanderson8088 ive hit 90's at high rpm, it is the melling high pressure pump i run.
@@jmihalchik98 But what is your idle oil pressure? The issue is more oil pressure (and thus flow) at idle, the lifters aren't failing at higher rpm, generating 90 PSI oil pressure at high rpm isn't helping your engine and just subtracting power from the engine to make more oil pressure than you need.
@@rickanderson8088 it’s in the 50’s
I totally agree with you!... The condition can be solved a lot easier with a high volume oil pump and have always believed this was the original issue!... Another big problem is that the heads are aluminum and the block is steel, so they heat/thaw differently causing the cast iron exhaust manifold to also heat/thaw differently, which leads to snapping the exhaust manifold bolts. One way to remedy this is to buy stainless steel headers that are to factory specifications (quality shorties) that are direct bolt up! You will not only get better gas mileage, but also reduce significant weight. It will cost you about 4 or 5 hundred for the parts, but it's well worth doing to reduce future havoc of bolts snapping inside the heads! I use a good quality tonneau cover on my truck to increase gas mileage on my truck (RAM 4x4 5.7L).
Thank you so much for addressing these problems! I will definitely look into a higher volume oil pump!
03-08 Hemi rollers are affected just as much as later engines are, don't know where you get that idea from. Many 3rd Gen Hemi engines mushroom out the pushrod tips and have lazy lifter noise every now and then. Me personally I have gone through 3 sets of non mds lifters on my 04 Ram.
I agree with this video. Lucas Oil Stabilizer could help.
I was interested in the start-up tick. I have had three 5.7's and now 6.4 all three of the 5.7's had a start-up tick. The 6.4 so far has been fine, there is some very mild valve train noise, but nothing in my opinion abnormal. 1 - 5.7 M, 2 - 5.7 A the 6.4 is a manual.
What year were they?
Thanks.. it’s been almost a year I installed the hellcat oil pump and u were right we need more volume
Totally agree.. and love the Hellcat pump upgrade idea.. but I think one fact missing for some of these failures is the choice of oil used in these Hemi's .. they need specific standards and unfortunately folks think the grade is all it takes.. my 6.4 HD called for a specific synthetic oil in a specific grade. What are your thoughts 🤔
My 6.4 hd loves mobile 1 0w50 90k miles
What I saw from the short clip of the cam and lifter from the 2010 Chally in the early stages of failure show me 100% the roller in the lifter failed first. Don't blame that one on lobe hardening issues.
I agree with your premise that there was likely a hardening issue, but I’m suspicious that the hardening issue was with the needle bearings not the cam. In your footage you showed of the cam lobe at the beginning stages of failure, the roller in the lifter is already considerably loose. I’d postulate that the roller is locking up and that’s what is damaging the cam. Chicken/egg I know, but that’s where my money would be. It would certainly be easy enough to take the cam to a shop with a hardness tester and get some qualified data to add to the conversation.
Yeah great idea. Hardness test on various parts from before and after would help narrow the possible causes.
Excellent white board session explaining you’re theory on why the Hemi Tick is occurring and exactly what is failing, why? And what is you’re solution to this problem. I still always go back to what an FCA Corporate representative informed me. He said it all goes back to people not maintaining their Hemi engines regularly….
I agree 💯! I keep fresh oil in my hemi’s and never had a problem , oil is changed every 3000 miles with Valvolne synthetic
As for the oil pump, a couple yrs. back I replaced the timing chain set in my 2005 Dodge Magnum Hemi at about 100,000 miles. While I thought about replacing the oil pump while in there, instead I disassembled the pump and wet sanded the gears in there and the pump housing. Before the wet sanding, the clearance between housing and gears was about .004" after sanding about .00075". Just enough clearance not to bind. Anyway after completing the job, I realized I had significantly higher oil pressure at idle. In fact enough to get the dtc for wrong oil viscosity! Even using proper 5-20 oil. I have done the same wet sanding clearancing on other oil pumps in the past with good results.
So whats the update on yours?
@@BdeJJG Still fine on oil pump. The DTC for wrong oil viscosity still comes up when I read the codes but does not light up the check engine light. Great oil pressure even at idle.
Interesting
10/11/2021 Good Info. My brother has a hemi in his 1 ton. No issues yet but now we will know what is what to stop the shade tree guys from a lot of unnecessary upgrades and milling. Some shops can screw up a one car funeral with add ons. Good one Don
I own a 2020 Ram 5.7 with very little milage and I’m very impressed with the Hemi. I’m not too worried about lifter failure aswell dropped seats but I’m curious if there were any significant changes to the valve seat issue or the size of the needle bearings in the lifters to help correct these problems?
Yeah you got one that they fixed the causes, '18 for new needles, '11 for the seats
@@HansBelphegor Excellent to know
Just had my 2011 Ram cam and lifters replaced @ 151,000 miles $5800 fix
I love the Hemi, but this will be the last one I own.
After thinking about this some more, since we have seen many instances where the cam was fine but the lifter bearings were bad, I'm still leaning toward lifters as the cause. Maybe the lifter bearings were improperly hardened or the clearances were incorrect and the bearings seized inside the rollers or the pin holding the roller was bad somehow.
You are correct
On my second cam lifter replacement on a 2011 5.7. This makes perfect sense and yes mine is a high idle time truck. First one at 168000 this one 70,000 or so later. Great video, thanks…
Thank you for the informative video. However, I am not sure how a soft cam shaft would cause the roller bearing followers to fail. It would appear to me that the roller bearings fail and the damage caused to the camshaft is secondary.
It seems that somehow the needle bearings begin to slide, rather than roll or they take an impact load causing them to flatten, and then they fail initially. I don’t believe engine oil is designed to provide protection for this type of sliding wear or metal to metal contact. Engine oil is designed to always provide a boundary film of oil through viscosity. Unlike gear oils that have additives to protect metals from sliding wear and impact. (I believe molybdenum is one of these gear oil additives.)
It would seem to me that the introduction of MDS has something to do with the action of the roller bearings. It’s just too coincidental that these issues arose at the same time!
Gerry, this was my exact thought. I dont believe a soft cam would cause lifters to fail. MANY of these 5.7s have been shown to have lifter bearings completely smoked. The tick is the lifter slapping the cam, from having play from the bearings being worn and destroyed. Far be it for me to question a Chrysler mechanic... but it makes no sense. What DOES make sense and seems to be the common denominator either way, is high idling times. My 2014 has probably idled more than it should have, but nothing like a fleet vehicle or squad car. Im currently at 134k miles and she still runs great, but does have a mild tick. I just replaced exhaust manifolds and spark plugs after P0219 and P0303 codes(misfire cylinder 3 and mixture issues), will see now if the codes clear. Again, runs smooth, but light tick is there. Im no mechanic, but I can do a lot myself, and Im seriously considering pre-emptively replacing the cam and lifters myself. Before any major issues.
Hey In 1986 The oil pressure dropped to zero in my 1979 K5 Blazer 5.7 engine. I opted for the high volume instead of high pressure. The engine only had regular hydraulic lifters not rollers. One guy said something about hardness of lifters. What’s the hardness of high performance roller lifters and cams in race engines. More volume would help with constant oil. Excellent video
I pretty much watch all these "Hemi Tick" videos, cause I'm a Dodge guy and believe in repairing what's broke. While diagnosing this problem, like you said, you can't leave out the FACT that oiling, however distributed, isn't a problem. Among the smaller to larger roller neddle bearings and cam hardening, all petraining to the oil. SO my question is, why not just use, say a cam and lifters for the 2003-2008 models? Wouldn't the cams from 2009 on up, STILL fail because of the lack of hardening, even with a higher volume pump? All the smart UA-camrs, including UTG, seem to agree, it's an oiling problem but with your theory, wouldn't that make it a cam manufacturer probelm? To properly fix this, a new style cam and oiling system would be needed. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for the content.
You aren’t wrong, the cams fail because the lifters fail
My wife and I purchased a 2006 jeep commander 5.7 Hemi engine Trail Rated brand new from our local dealer in New Mexico. This last week we had a head gasket on the front passenger side leaking a little antifreeze the engine has 198000 miles. We have always changed the oil when the time came. We noticed while starting up the engine had a knocking sound coming from the engine. We thought it might be internal but when I removed the intake manifold and exhaust manifold then I removed the heads and found the bolts broke on the manifold guards. That's where the knocking noise was coming from. The valves, roods, pistons and the lifters looked really good except a little carbon built up on top of the pistons and a little on the face of the valves and the spark plugs were very clean. The valve cover gaskets were cracked and dried out and the coil pack gaskets was cracked and dried out. I rebuilt this engine with an engine kit from the heads up to the intake and new fuel injector o rings. This 5.7 Hemi engine has been a good one every since we purchased the jeep commander.
Thank you for your continued education on this topic. Have you made any attempts to verify your hypothesis by testing the hardness of the the cams and compared to previous generations?
Pre 09's still had this problem. I had an 06 with the tick. Lots of guys had it on the older trucks.
I agree that they do have tick issues on the earlier engines as well, but it seems like it's not the same issue. I've seen a lot of the older lifters have issues with the hydraulic portion, which causes a tick, but they aren't really having a problem with the roller on the lifter failing. At least that's been my experience, in no way am I saying I've seen it all. 👍
You better be getting tons of subscribers any minute now! You're one of my favorite youtubers and you have by far the least subs haha
Came across this video and agreed with everything you said. But I happen to prevent the hemi tick on my 2012 ram 5.7 by simply changing the oil weight. I have been using 10w-40 for years now and truck is at 221,000 miles. No issues no problems what so ever. My oil pressure never have I seen drop below 48psi hot idle and drives around 54psi. Better psi than most people post on Facebook. Like I said truck is bone stock no tunes no nothing internal done. MDS is disabled and 10w-40 oil is what I use. Also got a 180tstat.
Assuming the cause is inadequate oil pressure at low rpm, why not just step up to an oil with a heavier grade at operating temperature (go from 5W-20 to -30 or -40)? It will achieve the same effect as the high volume pump without the need to tear into the engine.
I have had excellent luck to date on my '16 Ram 1500 running Shell Rotella Gas Truck 0W-20 Synthetic with NAPA Gold filters. I have found the Mopar filters to have issues with leaking drain back valves which caused intermittent lifter noise on cold startup until the oil pressure came up.
Former Chrysler tech.
I'm going to add extra oil to lifters by installing aluminum valve covers and welding on some drippers over the push rods. Old Chevy L88 Ls7 Ls6 motors had these to help out the Oiling of the mechanical lifter system.
Oil pumps do NOT make pressure, they move volume. Pressure is a measurement of restriction. Furthermore, if you say its a cam hardening issue, explain the failing roller on the lifter.
High volume pumps make more pressure for any given RPM below the relief point by forcing a larger volume through the same restriction. He described it correctly, and in both theory and actual practice, a high volume oil pump WILL raise your oil pressure at every point below the relief setting. The RPM at which the relief pressure is hit will also be lower (as he showed on his graph).
For my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 5.7 liter gen 3 Hemi I have been using 6 quarts 10w30 Valvoline Advanced full synthetic with a quart of Lucas oil stabilizer Pure synthetic, and the Mopar 090 filter. I change the oil and filter around 4,000 miles and the engine sounds good at over 159,000 miles. It makes noise until it is warmed up bavause it has broken exhaust bolt but with the heat the exhaust swells enough to stop the leak.
If it is a hardening issue on the cams then wouldn’t that also mean that temperature factor? Excessive heat built up usually occurs at idle, which explains why the oil can’t keep up and cams may get hot enough to where they ware down. On my Ram I noticed they added a factory auxiliary oil cooler. I also went to a larger oil filter in a remote location and runs 2-3 degrees cooler.
This is a great video and definitely a solution to a problem. My 2005 hemi ram has had the tick for a decade. I know 1 oil change I did and it looked like gold glitter at a strip club in there. Who knew the hemi was having a stripper party inside. I wanna say it's a rod bearing thats failing. But my truck is still running to this day and I run a heavier oil weight. If I do decide to rebuild this motor. It will be a major overhaul and probably going to run me 6 to 8 grand with the upgrades. 271,000 miles and still going.
Owner of a '13 Hemi Ram. So would a cam/lifter upgrade be a good work around? (I am not experiencing any tick yet with 150k miles) and if so, what's a good mild performance setup? What cost estimate would I be looking at for parts and labor?
On my 09 Ram I installed hellcat lifters, non-mds cam= 3/4 ton stock cam, shimmed stock oil pump, drilled out head gasket oil holes by .030” which restrict oil to heads and run a cleanable high flow oil filter $. Now I have really good oil pressure.
I have a 2015 ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi. The filler cap says 5w-20 but the manual says 5w-30. I have been running 5w-30 the majority of the life of my engine. currently have 243000 miles on my truck. I have had no issues with the cam and lifters as of yet, after watching your previous video stating the hellcat pump should be a good fix. I tried an experiment. I ran 5w-20 for two oil changes or 6000 miles. Afterwards I switched back tot he 5w-30, i noticed at idle speeds the oil pressure was significantly lower. When i say significantly lower I am saying almost 10 psi lower at idle. So I would suggest running the 5w-30 per the manual over the 5w-20 shown on the filler cap. Of course I am not a professional, and I may be doing more harm than good to my truck. however outside of valve cover gaskets, and a water pump, I have not had any major mechanical issues regarding the engine. (Knock on wood)
Great advice I have a 2013 ram 5.7 I did Change out the oil pump for the Hellcat oil pump, it took my rear seal. I think the reason it had 216k miles on it. I believe the seal was old couldn't handle the higher pressure.
Thanks for the vid. Very, very informative. I've been seriously thinking about trading my Scat Pack in on a Hellcat but if I'm going to keep it I will definitely get the Hellcat pump. I've been freaked out ever since I heard of the "Hemi Tick". Do you think the hardening issue is across the board? I mean, if they aren't hard enough but are supposed to be hardened to a higher spec, do you think it's all of them or could some of them be to spec and others not?
I think melling makes a high volume oil pump for the hemi engines. I also agree that a HV oil pump is a better solution then writing a high idle tune. Enjoying all these hemi videos. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the information, Skye. Graphs and charts grab and keep my attention. Have a question about oil filters having a by-pass valve - will this affect system oil pressure and if so, is there a preferred replacement? Mopar factory replacement, Wix, etc? Finally, is there another oil pressure limiting valve in the engine oiling system?
I’ve rebuilt 2 hemis so far from blown police cars, you are 100% right. Also, I have a 6.1 srt charger they also have higher oil pressure than a 5.7. I also run 5w30 oil and they seem to like it more in warm weather at least. This kicks up the oil pressure which is also what I believe is the issue like you, I get about 30-35 psi at idle which is much better than with 5w20. I hope your channel explodes man lots of useful info on here! My grandparents have a 09 Chrysler aspen with 280k miles no problems ever while over towing it’s entire life, they are wonderful engines and I did the 392 cam swap in my latest police car and it is wonderful your precious video convinced me to do it.
If you want to see the very latest video I have on this subject you can check it out here! ua-cam.com/video/wpl8aZiPK0E/v-deo.html
Maybe just maybe mopar should take responsibility and change or ensure proper hardness of the cam in manufacturing and redesign a higher volume oil pump. Owning up to there mistake. If it were me I would swap out the cam with one of longer duration and better heat treating for hardness. I'm sure those cams are probably made in china oops did I say that!
@@Jon-O. you could be right. Next time I do a camshaft I'll check the box and see if it says where its from. I know many of the parts are made in Mexico, some from Canada, and yes, some from china. There's definitely no such thing as a domestic brand nowadays.
@@ReignitedAuto yeah used to piss me off when I would machine stuff for our military only to find out Chinese Corporation designed it on the prints what are we effing morons.
@ReignitedAuto The oil pressure reading in the car (2016 Durango RT) shows a max of ~6x psi when driving and idle drops to as low as ~35 psi warm. Is this accurate or in range of pump performance?
That's pretty much standard 👍
Melling has both a high volume and high pressure pumps for the 5.7 and 6.4. I can agree with the higher vol at idle would be a benefit but it also adds other issues, aside from having to use the matching pickup tube. The one issue would be any type of high rpm usage with a stock oil pan has a good potential of sucking the pan dry causing oil aeration, pumping the valve covers full of oil etc. Another one I need to point out is the MDS system, it has issues with higher oil pressure and volume then stock if you do not turn it off. The hellcat oil pump is the in between pump. Thicker pump rotor then a stock replacement pump but they are not as thick as an aftermarket high vol pump and keeps the stock approx 65psi rating.
Hmmm......
Thank you for this Video. I just bought a 2016 1500 ram with 92xxx and it's running great now and all this talk about issues has me a bit worried I might be experiencing this in the next 20xxx miles.
The answer for me was to install Comp Cam stage 2 and Hellcat lifrers. No mor MDS. The cam of course is billet as the old cam was ductile. 3 years , no peoblems idling as much as i want. But , with gas prices now , idling is bad for your $$$. Nice horspower gain and tuner changed the shifts to badass new heights. Fun to drive.
Since 2003 we have reduced the amount of ZDDP in motor oil by siginicant levels. The need for ZDDP in motor oil is critical as the ZDDP lubricates ferous metals under heavy pressure. The lack of ZDDP will help peel the hardening off of a cam shaft.
I have a 2014 SRT8 Challenger with a 6.4L engine. I add 6 ounces of ZDDP with SAE 5E40 Full Synthetic. I have had no engine issues at this point. I also turned off my MDS.
Plate C
Another great video! My daughter has a 2020 1500 Warlock Hemi and I told to avoid long idling periods because of the “potential” issues down the road.
I wish you would dive into the Ecodiesel engine a bit. I know you don’t like it but it would be very informative for us owners.
I just hit 60K and I am worried. Everyone say “delete it” Not sure I want the EPA knocking on my door 🤷🏻♂️
I’m seriously considering a 2022 2500 reg cab 4X4 Hemi. Waiting for the market to correct itself. Not pay 3K plus over window on a new truck.
Ive been in fleet for 30 plus years and have had worked with emission style diesels in big rigs and medium duty trucks. Try this product in your fuel.....DPF Remedy. It will cut the soot by 80+% and reduce the soot loading inside engine and through the emission system. Reduce the soot, reduce the regen cycles, reduce the breakage and heat. Then run Schaeffers Supreme 9000 full synthetic....itll keep everything nice and clean
I just watched another one of your videos on the Hemi lifters and left a comment. YT directed me to this video and I 100% agree and this is a large part of what I said on the other video.. lol.... Great minds..... ;)
I enjoyed the simple and direct instruction on this video. Thanks
Best explanation of the issue I've seen yet, and I believe you are dead right about the solution.
Great explanation and makes perfect sense unlike the other theories out there.
You sir are a great educator. These videos have been a great find!
This just happened to my Jeep 5.7L. I just got the cam and lifters out tonight. Just one lifter (non-MDS) has the needle bearing ground down and the lobe wiped. There is no scuffing on the lifter bores, no crud, deposits or varnish, i.e. no sign of bad oil or going to long between oil changes. I use synthetic oil and change it when the PCM Dash reminder goes off. After wiping the cam and lifters down, I can now see almost every lobe has galling at the peak of the lobe, even a 2nd lobe that has started to grind down with a roller width depression below the rest of the lobe surface, perhaps 0.010"-0.020". The lifter rollers surface are less galled, scuffed some, looks far better than the peak of the lobes, but the needle bearings seem fine. I can now see why RR is speculating about CAM hardness, cause besides the one destroyed lifter and lobe, all the other lobes look to be wearing/damaged worse than the lifter.
BUT, I still think the CAM Phaser and associated parts of VVT are an overlooked possible culprit in this issue. I also found the wires to the connector to my VVT Oil Control Solenoid were folded over and twisted, when I unfolded and untwisted the wires the bare wires were exposed. I don't know for sure they were crossed and shorted, I did not have a CEL or Fault Code for the solenoid, nor do I know if one exists. But funny that I could have likely had a shorted VVT control solenoid, and my Cam wiped.
Thank you for this video, I have 2008 5.7 1500 and you have answered a question I could not find the answer you gave in this video.
you are a 100% right,great video,thanks.
12’ 5.7 grand Cherokee and it definitely has this tic, and it definitely it the psi at idle, I’ve literally been concerned when looking at my oil psi while sitting idle. And when ever I’m idle at a light that’s when the tic occurs most frequently. Once I get up to 2000 rpm it stops.
My 2011 hemi pickup wiped the cam out at 156k miles. There were none available from the dealer or parts house at the time. I sent the cam to a camshaft rebuilder and they welded up the lobes that were bad and reground them to stock. The grinder told me that it was the softest camshaft he had ever ground. 100k miles later a different lobe went flat. At that point I was able to get an aftermarket camshaft and it has been good for the last 60k miles.
Just my hemi experience though.
My ‘13 Ram has less than 90 idle hours and I had this issue on the #5 exhaust lobe & lifter. Never missed an oil change. From reading, #5 seems common to fail but I know others do too. If the issue was QC or metallurgy it would be / should be equally random on all cylinders. Some folks bash the lifters but FCA couldn’t have installed just bad ones on cylinder #5, #3, etc. The hardening, or lack thereof, should be equally distributed also. It has to be an oiling anomaly related to the block. My bad lifter was oily but not drenched and dripping like those on the right side.
Back in the 80s GM had a problem with Chev V8 flat cams. They had changed the way the cams were hardened (I believe from flame to induction hardening). Their cams were going flat everywhere.
My replacement Melling HV pump fixed my issues on my 6.2 GM suv! Was a pain to install though, but well worth it.