As an old master at tuning pianos of all kinds, my advice to the beginner is that you can do this and it's not so difficult. But the first thing you must try to remember as you go along from note to note is not to take your tuning hammer off the pin you're working on. When you do that, you forget where you are and you have to trace the strings to the pins again. Unnecessary grief.
Yes, a new pinblock really isn't cost effective on an upright in most cases. I've never heard of using any kind of wax, but it seems like this can cause problems. I'm glad the CA glue helped some. Just as a last effort you could try applying more CA glue to the pins that are jumpy. It possibly may help the situation. It certainly can't hurt at this point. Yes, I think you'll find if you get a different piano that the pins will feel much better. You can always find a good deal on Craigslist. There are even actually decent free pianos on occasion, they are just harder to find. I tuned a piano last week that was a Yamaha console piano from the 80's that was in excellent condition. The customer I was tuning for said they had recently gotten the piano for free and all they had to pay for was the moving. They got an excellent deal needless to say.
howardpianoind hello can you do a video for me to see what it woukd sound like if its way out of tune. and how out of tune will it go im just curious to ask😁
1:48 Tuning for Honkey Tonk. Note - Jerk is actually a technical term - it is an increase in acceleration (where acceleration is an increase in velocity)
Hi Jamie, As to knowing how much to pull the pitch above the target pitch, this will vary mostly depending on how tight the tuning pins are. You get a feel for knowing when the pin has moved enough in the pinblock to know when it will settle back to the target pitch. One of my pianos at home has extremely tight tuning pins so I have to pull the pitch up more than normal above the target pitch before settling it back down to the target.
You are correct though. For the price of a new pin-block, I may as well purchase a new upright piano. Pretty much the first thing I did was remove the rust from the pins because they were very rusty. I did this by putting them in a rust-remover solution. After that I was told by a "supposed" piano technician to wax them and then let the spruce soak up the excess wax. When the pins didn't even try to hold even a little tension, I removed them and used alcohol to take off the wax. I then moved on to paper shims around the pins. This was fine for some of them but not all of them. It actually made them a bit "jumpy" like I mentioned. After that I decided to buy some glue from you, (which works excellently by the way), and this helped tighten the pins to where they weren't too jumpy. Now only a few pins are jumpy. I think I'll add more glue and see what happens. The majority of the piano is holding a tune better than when I started but the piano is a clunker so I'm not going to worry too much about a new pin-block or bigger tuning pins. If it means anything for your future reference, my piano is a Bishop upright. Can't find the year it was manufactured with the serial number I have. I got it for free from someone who was going to take it to the dump. I had a professional technician come tune it and regulate a little bit of the action for about $100 + $20 tip. When he left I noticed some of the pins had chalk on them and when I started tuning, I realized his chalk marks were right. This guy, however, wasn't the same technician that told me to wax them. I've tuned a couple of pianos for a few friends from church and I noticed their pins were so much less "sketchy" to tune. Everything was firm, no random slipping. Anyway, the glue really is helping a lot. Thanks for your advice and wisdom!
Excellent video. The comment below posited the hammer vs wrench question ... to which i'd also bring the question of the jerky motion vs the more even pull of a contiguous movement??? I've been tuning for about a year (as a hobby) after performing music for decades.... On our home upright I use a combo of the jerky movement type and the more even movement. The most effective method for me on our Phinney upright is is to start from at least 50 cents below and approaching the unison in one contiguous movement. I'd even say that along that roughly 50 cent distance the ascent is quicker at first , and as I approach the unison I slow down the ascent - but try not to stop the movement. I sometimes (but not always find that a series of incremental movements ( jerkier motion) results in it resting finally either still under pitch or glitching sharp. Our Phinney is quite unable, yet I'd say each pin has a slightly different tension.
I am a professional tuner too - l use a two piece lever from the German company called Jahn - my lever handle is definitely over 50 yrs old which l got from my old journeyman master many years ago
Thank you so much for all this videos!! They are truly helpful, i've been using a chromatic tuner but i'm not satisfied with the results, i'm going to try tunelab and see how it goes!
I noticed you have the tuning hammer handle in about the 2 o'clock position. I'm a left-handed tuner, so should I use a different position, since I'm facing the other way?
If the note changes you are not just turning the head of the pin ? Or can you actually change the pitch and not move the base of the pin? Thanks for a great video !
Hi Howard, first of all really great videos! I appreciate the amount of time and thought you put in your videos. Thank you so much. I would like to ask you: After you have tunned the middle string with tunne lab, couldn't you just do the same for the left and right strings of that note? Why is it that you have to tune the other strings by ear??
Thank you! Can you explain more about the pin? How to tune the piano without removing the pin! Little "Jurkey" touches as you say is a good technique. Is it something else I need to know? Regards,
Basically you want to get the pin to move inside the pinblock so making movements with the tuning hammer that also twist the lower part of the pin is the key.
Very helpful video, appreciate it very much. Is there a special FYI I should take notes on for tuning an upper treble keys with duplex scaling? I Haven’t tuned a piano previously but I would love to give it a try but I was concerned with my new upright piano that has duplex scaling. Thank you.
Have you tried tapping the hammer while applying turning force, this is what mechanics do to ensure bolts are settled and not twisted when tightened to given torque? Only problem is you need to let go of the piano key.
It's really doing a similar thing to what he is doing, because wiggling the hammer applies a small mechanical shock to the pin enough to overcome the friction between the lower part of the pin and block. I'm not advocating it, and I'm not a tuner but this is generally accepted technique used to torque up tight bolts securely. It's also useful for loosening them, although normally you need more than just a tap. @@finerfrus3713
The problem is that even though the pins have been treated with all sorts of things to help, the tuning pins are still too loose. I've never heard of using beezwax, but it could be that this is what is making the pins untunable as any kind of lubricant can make the pins so they won't hold and I would think wax would fall under that category. I generally try and find all possible solutions to your problem, but I think that the only thing that will make the piano tunable is a new pinblock, which may not be economically worth it for your piano depending on what kind of piano you have. Obviously I can't tell everything by your description, but that's what it sounds like from what you're saying the pins are acting like.
This varies depending on what area you are in. The larger cities will be higher priced than smaller cities or towns. In a large city you may pay between $120 - $150 and in smaller areas the price will probably be below $100.
$210 in Carlsbad California. I had a guy booked, but when Corona hit, I watched this video, bought a kit on Amazon and tuned it myself. Took about two hours :) I paid myself the $110 per hour but now I have no place to go to spend it :)
I just have a question - I use star shaped adapter on my tunning hammer and I have noticed that it leaves some indentations on the pins where it "grabs" them..indentations are minor, but visible. Is this normal or will this cause damage to pins and potentially result in breaking or rusting? Pins are nickel plated but I do not know what is the actual pin material (steel or stainless steel) so also potential damage to the nickel coating could lead to rusting...thank you!
It isn’t the best thing if your tuning lever tip is marking the pins. It could be the brand of tuning hammer that you’re using. Some of the cheaper made tuning hammers don’t have the right taper inside the tip so it doesn’t fit the pins like it should. Or it could be that you need a smaller tip.
I tuned the half of my vertical Piano using this tutorial series. but that my tuning hammer got stuck on a tuning pin. Any idea of how i get my tuning hammer off?
It sounds like it got wedged onto the pin. This does happen sometimes. If you tap on the handle in the opposite direction of where it's wedged it should loosen up.
I have a question and that is I want to tune my piano it's an upright kind of similar to this one, but it's literally 100 years old and I dont know if the strings will even hold the tension, I've played it for a while now and it's been fine but I'm worried about when it's tuned. Because it's so old.
There are more possibilities for things to go wrong with an older piano like you have, but in most cases you won't run into any problems. I have tuned many pianos of that age and occasionally there is an issue with a string breaking or something in the action that is broken, but if you've been playing the piano and it plays without any problems, chances are that it would be fine to tune it.
So, my piano is very old. I've tuned it several times but getting a stable tuning is a huge chore. Why? My tuning pins are "cracky". They jump around a lot when you try to tune them. They've had CA glue treatment, beezwax treatment, paper shim treatment, some of them are still too jumpy to tune. You can pull the pitch up with a few clicks in the pin, but bringing it back down to set the pin simply sends it a semitone lower without your control. Do you know of anything that can alleviate this problem of "jumpy" tuning pins?
When you turn the tuning pin, there is some twisting of the pin that takes place that you have to make sure that you stabilize. Also when you turn the tuning pin part of the string can move before the entire length of the string has changed. By hitting the key with a strong blow, this helps to equalize the tension on the string.
As an old master at tuning pianos of all kinds, my advice to the beginner is that you can do this and it's not so difficult. But the first thing you must try to remember as you go along from note to note is not to take your tuning hammer off the pin you're working on. When you do that, you forget where you are and you have to trace the strings to the pins again. Unnecessary grief.
Then they call the pro tuner and say, "My husband tuned the piano (they think) so we don't need that, but we have broken strings."
Thank you very much! I've tuned my first four notes today.
Great series, thanks!
Yes, a new pinblock really isn't cost effective on an upright in most cases. I've never heard of using any kind of wax, but it seems like this can cause problems. I'm glad the CA glue helped some. Just as a last effort you could try applying more CA glue to the pins that are jumpy. It possibly may help the situation. It certainly can't hurt at this point. Yes, I think you'll find if you get a different piano that the pins will feel much better. You can always find a good deal on Craigslist. There are even actually decent free pianos on occasion, they are just harder to find. I tuned a piano last week that was a Yamaha console piano from the 80's that was in excellent condition. The customer I was tuning for said they had recently gotten the piano for free and all they had to pay for was the moving. They got an excellent deal needless to say.
howardpianoind hello can you do a video for me to see what it woukd sound like if its way out of tune. and how out of tune will it go im just curious to ask😁
1:48 Tuning for Honkey Tonk.
Note - Jerk is actually a technical term - it is an increase in acceleration (where acceleration is an increase in velocity)
Hi Jamie, As to knowing how much to pull the pitch above the target pitch, this will vary mostly depending on how tight the tuning pins are. You get a feel for knowing when the pin has moved enough in the pinblock to know when it will settle back to the target pitch. One of my pianos at home has extremely tight tuning pins so I have to pull the pitch up more than normal above the target pitch before settling it back down to the target.
Very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
I love these vids! I basically listen to them as lullabies before I go to bed haha...and I learn in the process.
You are correct though. For the price of a new pin-block, I may as well purchase a new upright piano. Pretty much the first thing I did was remove the rust from the pins because they were very rusty. I did this by putting them in a rust-remover solution. After that I was told by a "supposed" piano technician to wax them and then let the spruce soak up the excess wax. When the pins didn't even try to hold even a little tension, I removed them and used alcohol to take off the wax. I then moved on to paper shims around the pins. This was fine for some of them but not all of them. It actually made them a bit "jumpy" like I mentioned. After that I decided to buy some glue from you, (which works excellently by the way), and this helped tighten the pins to where they weren't too jumpy. Now only a few pins are jumpy. I think I'll add more glue and see what happens. The majority of the piano is holding a tune better than when I started but the piano is a clunker so I'm not going to worry too much about a new pin-block or bigger tuning pins. If it means anything for your future reference, my piano is a Bishop upright. Can't find the year it was manufactured with the serial number I have. I got it for free from someone who was going to take it to the dump. I had a professional technician come tune it and regulate a little bit of the action for about $100 + $20 tip. When he left I noticed some of the pins had chalk on them and when I started tuning, I realized his chalk marks were right. This guy, however, wasn't the same technician that told me to wax them. I've tuned a couple of pianos for a few friends from church and I noticed their pins were so much less "sketchy" to tune. Everything was firm, no random slipping. Anyway, the glue really is helping a lot. Thanks for your advice and wisdom!
Excellent video. The comment below posited the hammer vs wrench question
... to which i'd also bring the question of the jerky motion vs the more even pull of a contiguous movement???
I've been tuning for about a year (as a hobby) after performing music for decades.... On our home upright I use a combo of the jerky movement type and the more even movement. The most effective method for me on our Phinney upright is is to start from at least 50 cents below and approaching the unison in one contiguous movement. I'd even say that along that roughly 50 cent distance the ascent is quicker at first , and as I approach the unison I slow down the ascent - but try not to stop the movement. I sometimes (but not always find that a series of incremental movements ( jerkier motion) results in it resting finally either still under pitch or glitching sharp. Our Phinney is quite unable, yet I'd say each pin has a slightly different tension.
I am a professional tuner too - l use a two piece lever from the German company called Jahn - my lever handle is definitely over 50 yrs old which l got from my old journeyman master many years ago
How much higher than perfect do you recommend to tune it? 5 cents?
Thank you so much for all this videos!! They are truly helpful, i've been using a chromatic tuner but i'm not satisfied with the results, i'm going to try tunelab and see how it goes!
How did it end up working out for you?
Thanks
Thanks! :)
I place the top of my lever in the muscle between the thumb and index finger- l place my leaver around 12 noon.
I noticed you have the tuning hammer handle in about the 2 o'clock position. I'm a left-handed tuner, so should I use a different position, since I'm facing the other way?
If you are tuning with your left hand I would recommend a position of 11 to 1 o'clock.
Can loose and tighting a string to one semi tone up or down and then bringing it back to orginal note damge the pin block?
Doing this once won't cause damage, but doing it over and over again can cause the pin to become loose.
If the note changes you are not just turning the head of the pin ? Or can you actually change the pitch and not move the base of the pin? Thanks for a great video !
If you move just the head of the pin to change the pitch, the change won't hold because the twist in the pin will revert back.
So how do you make it hold then Howard?
Which head is preferable for tuning ? Square or star head
Definitely the star head. This option gives you twice as many options on your handle position.
Hi Howard, first of all really great videos! I appreciate the amount of time and thought you put in your videos. Thank you so much.
I would like to ask you: After you have tunned the middle string with tunne lab, couldn't you just do the same for the left and right strings of that note? Why is it that you have to tune the other strings by ear??
It doesn’t typically work to try and tune all 3 strings to an ETD because of slight changes to the pitch once you’ve tuned the string.
Thank you! Can you explain more about the pin? How to tune the piano without removing the pin!
Little "Jurkey" touches as you say is a good technique. Is it something else I need to know?
Regards,
Basically you want to get the pin to move inside the pinblock so making movements with the tuning hammer that also twist the lower part of the pin is the key.
Very helpful video, appreciate it very much. Is there a special FYI I should take notes on for tuning an upper treble keys with duplex scaling? I Haven’t tuned a piano previously but I would love to give it a try but I was concerned with my new upright piano that has duplex scaling. Thank you.
There isn’t anything different with a piano with duplex scaling.
Question: How is it possible to turn the head of the pin and not the portion that's in the pin block? 7:05
Even though it seems like the pin is inflexible, there is some flex in the steel.
@@howardpianoind Very good. I thought all the flex was in the shaft of the hammer. Thank you.
There is flex in the tuning hammer also.
@@howardpianoind Yes, I see mine bend all the time. But I never thought of the pins twisting. Very surprised. Thanks for the info and great videos.
Have you tried tapping the hammer while applying turning force, this is what mechanics do to ensure bolts are settled and not twisted when tightened to given torque? Only problem is you need to let go of the piano key.
How do you know that the pins are settled and not twisted by doing that?
It's really doing a similar thing to what he is doing, because wiggling the hammer applies a small mechanical shock to the pin enough to overcome the friction between the lower part of the pin and block. I'm not advocating it, and I'm not a tuner but this is generally accepted technique used to torque up tight bolts securely. It's also useful for loosening them, although normally you need more than just a tap. @@finerfrus3713
p1anosteve Interesting.. I'm a beginner tuner myself. Thanks for the knowledge!
The problem is that even though the pins have been treated with all sorts of things to help, the tuning pins are still too loose. I've never heard of using beezwax, but it could be that this is what is making the pins untunable as any kind of lubricant can make the pins so they won't hold and I would think wax would fall under that category. I generally try and find all possible solutions to your problem, but I think that the only thing that will make the piano tunable is a new pinblock, which may not be economically worth it for your piano depending on what kind of piano you have. Obviously I can't tell everything by your description, but that's what it sounds like from what you're saying the pins are acting like.
How much does it cost approximately to tune piano in America?
Thanks a lot for the interesting videos.
This varies depending on what area you are in. The larger cities will be higher priced than smaller cities or towns. In a large city you may pay between $120 - $150 and in smaller areas the price will probably be below $100.
$210 in Carlsbad California. I had a guy booked, but when Corona hit, I watched this video, bought a kit on Amazon and tuned it myself. Took about two hours :) I paid myself the $110 per hour but now I have no place to go to spend it :)
Dang 210 bucks for a tuning? Here in England I booked a tuning for my piano next week for £65 (approx $70)
I guess the tuner guy is just a really honest dude, no overcharging
I just have a question - I use star shaped adapter on my tunning hammer and I have noticed that it leaves some indentations on the pins where it "grabs" them..indentations are minor, but visible. Is this normal or will this cause damage to pins and potentially result in breaking or rusting?
Pins are nickel plated but I do not know what is the actual pin material (steel or stainless steel) so also potential damage to the nickel coating could lead to rusting...thank you!
It isn’t the best thing if your tuning lever tip is marking the pins. It could be the brand of tuning hammer that you’re using. Some of the cheaper made tuning hammers don’t have the right taper inside the tip so it doesn’t fit the pins like it should. Or it could be that you need a smaller tip.
What about impact hammers like Reburn to eliminate the twisting?
Yes, the impact tuning levers do eliminate a lot of that.
hey man,im abou to tune my own piano couse i dont have money to spend with a professional,bassicaly,you need to tune key per key???
Yes, you would tune one string at a time.
ok,i will try!
Lol how did it go?
i have just one question. That wobbling technique does harm pins?
It shouldn't harm the pins as long as you have a decent tuning hammer that fits well on the pins.
@@howardpianoind thank you so much
Do you need a high-quality microphone to do this? I assume a built-in laptop mic would not suffice.
I've always just used the built in mic on both my laptop and on my iPad and it works fine.
I tuned the half of my vertical Piano using this tutorial series. but that my tuning hammer got stuck on a tuning pin.
Any idea of how i get my tuning hammer off?
It sounds like it got wedged onto the pin. This does happen sometimes. If you tap on the handle in the opposite direction of where it's wedged it should loosen up.
Isn't it different tuning an upright vs. a grand?
Mostly the only difference is the position of the tuning hammer.
So the "hammer" is actually a "wrench" lol
Thats what im using over here haha
and doubles as a baton for self-defence.
I have a question and that is I want to tune my piano it's an upright kind of similar to this one, but it's literally 100 years old and I dont know if the strings will even hold the tension, I've played it for a while now and it's been fine but I'm worried about when it's tuned. Because it's so old.
There are more possibilities for things to go wrong with an older piano like you have, but in most cases you won't run into any problems. I have tuned many pianos of that age and occasionally there is an issue with a string breaking or something in the action that is broken, but if you've been playing the piano and it plays without any problems, chances are that it would be fine to tune it.
Thanks for the response I'll just be careful not to crank the tuning pin.
So, my piano is very old. I've tuned it several times but getting a stable tuning is a huge chore. Why? My tuning pins are "cracky". They jump around a lot when you try to tune them. They've had CA glue treatment, beezwax treatment, paper shim treatment, some of them are still too jumpy to tune. You can pull the pitch up with a few clicks in the pin, but bringing it back down to set the pin simply sends it a semitone lower without your control. Do you know of anything that can alleviate this problem of "jumpy" tuning pins?
hmm..K
What does this mean? "You need to set the pin and set the string."
When you turn the tuning pin, there is some twisting of the pin that takes place that you have to make sure that you stabilize. Also when you turn the tuning pin part of the string can move before the entire length of the string has changed. By hitting the key with a strong blow, this helps to equalize the tension on the string.
so much frigging babbling 'mkay?'... pick up the pace dude. E.g. Start sentence 0:05: how to hammer technique. Answer: 4:30
Alright, kinda harsh.
You'l never be able to tune a piano with that kind of impatience. This isn't insta-tune.
@@rodneylee4026 Agreed. Some people have no manners or finesse