Of Mîm & the Dwarf’s Curse | Of The Children of Húrin: Tolkien's First Age Explained - Part 4 of 13
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- Опубліковано 18 тра 2023
- A sinister tale of the Petty-dwarves...
Check out an English translation of 'The Complaint of Mîm, the Dwarf' - docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
The Children of Húrin: Introduction - • Children of Húrin 101 ...
Part 1 - • Túrin son of Húrin: Or...
Part 2 - • Túrin & the Elven King...
Part 3 - • Túrin & the Wolf-men |...
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I think one of my favorite parts of this story is friendship and how Tolkien didn’t shy away from showing how a man can love another man as friends and it’s just completely normal. It shows another side of masculinity that is not often depicted anywhere else yet I feel is really important to showcase. Recently, men’s social circles are shrinking, especially when it comes to close male friends, and it is nothing but detrimental to both physical and mental health. It is important to have models of how men can both be absolute bad assses and still love their besties and the same time ❤😂
What you are describing is called "brotherhood". Until the drive to wokify the military, this still existed in our military and was quite strong.
That's a secret behind Tolkien's writings, socialism and "equity" or the drive to force the same outcome on everyone through dominion ultimately destroys those natural bonds.
Unfortunately being masculine is being toxic in today’s society
That is one of my favourite thing about Tolikien. He shows pure love of heart and friendship that has nothing to do with sexuality, so hard to find in today´s world...
@@kenntakac5034 he was in the trenches, he loved and was loved by his brothers in arms. It's a brotherly love you can only find in hard times.
Him like a lot of others just repeat the same Information over and over eith slight iterations and slowly adding a bit more. It's all about money and this guy sounds like he loves his own voice. Uch
Mim and the Noegyth Nibin are my one of my favourite lesser known groups. The death of Mim's son over a sack of potatoes is one of the most tragic deaths in all of Tolkien's work.
Turin's honor was shattered that instant
Mîm really was a tragic figure. And its not like the Noegyth Nibin didn't have SOME legitimate grievances against Thingol's folk (and maybe Denethor's) for hunting them at first, showing just how ignoble Elves could be in all honesty. Too many people think of Tolkien's Elves as perfect when they are anything but, especially if you read any of The Three Great Tales and/or The Silmarillion.
Every time you sing the praises of those most wonderful legends, Beleg Cuthalion and Finrod Felagund, my heart sings along
Aragorn would probably smile and agree with you
yeah, strider wouldn't mind
I quite agree: Finrod, Beleg, & Fingon are all friends the caliber of Samwise the Brave! Unfortunately, none of them get Sam's happy ending....
Beleg agrees in hero.
Please, leave me out of this. I do not belong among the likes of Beleg Cúthelion and Fingon. Those kin of mine were the best of the best. The most righteous among us that I could only hope to equal. They set the example for the rest of us to live by. All I can do is hope that my deeds compare in measure to those great kindred.
Also I feel King Elessar Telcontoúr would agree with me that there were far greater and more majestic men and elves that walked this world than us. For our deeds do not compare to Fingolfin or Beren. Nor do we compare to Glorfindel or Maehdros. Pardon my rambling, I tend to get carried away when speaking about those dark times.
As for my part, all I did was act out of love for Barahir and Beren. Not for my oath. That was second. But, I cared for them as I care for myself. And could not stand by while Beren risked everything for Lúthien. A man among men he was. As fair as any Elf and far more caring.
Turin is caught in the middle of this triangle of incompatible people: Mim, Androg, and Beleg all don't get along with each other, but they all share some or another kind of love or fondness or loyalty to Turin. How does he keep getting himself enmeshed in the most complicated and difficult situations...
(Also, I keep thinking to myself about black Anglachel, hidden in the background once Beleg arrives...)
To start with, the term "petty" in the way Tolkien used it would be from the French word "petit", just meaning small, rather than our current usage meaning spiteful.
Humanising (for lack of a better term) the Petty Dwarves, and Mîm in particular, really throws the narrative around the Noldor into another light. Suddenly the "good guys" are shown to be arrogant conquerors and settlers, taking lands and hunting the people who already lived there like animals. The fact that the Petty Dwarves were just assumed to be evil because they were outcasts from dwarven kingdoms illuminates the kinds of prejudice alive in Middle Earth at the time. But it wasn't the Petty Dwarves who awoke the Balrog, nor the Petty Dwarves who were deceived by Sauron into taking rings of power.
An important distinction.
You are saying Tolkien deliberately used French-derived vocabulary? I find that hard to believe, I mean his spite went as far as to give only the Sackville-Baggins in the whole of Arda a French inspired name 😂
Petty in the late middle-English derivation just means smaller or lesser. Now we can resume not speaking about the French.😅 I'm kidding France, you know I love you. There's the fries, and the kissing, as well as the connection. And perhaps other things that are French? Who knows, really.😊
Tolkien has Rohirim hunt the wodewoses too like animals. He had a decent understanding of good guys shadier sides.
@@ddavidjeremy Escargot.
This is the only time ever a tangent about bread has interested me. :)
Holy fuck. Sorry.... language... but... OH MY GOD.
I cannot wait for your next instalment.
I've read these works but honestly, I feel like I must have been sleeping through them. Your retelling and reframing leaves me in tears.
It's magical!
Again - by drawing parallels like that between Gollum/Frodo and Mim/Turin - this enriches the both individual stories and arc of the meta-narrative - and provides greater insight into the mind of the author- bravo!! Tolkien Untangled is my favorite lore channel by far!
Noldor on hunting petty dwarves - "Oh sh*t! Those are people?! Eru will sort it out..." 😒
A day that starts with Dave's middle earth is a nice day!
Thanks for the video, my friend.😊
I really appreciate your focus on Mìm, his character deserves the through exploration you gave him
This was a beautiful dissection of Mîm and the complexities of Tolkien’s story changing over time. I appreciate that you explain the gray area, and that it’s not as simple as “cannon” or not. It was a masterful explanation yet again! Thank you, 🌈 Rainbow Dave! ☮️
This channel brings me great joy. It has reinvigorated my love for Tolkein and that value cannot be overstated. Thank you so very much Dave.🙂
Tangent or not, I love how often you draw the parallels between Melian and Galadriel, and the profound impact that the former had on the latter! Also, I didn't realize that Mim had a personal history with Finrod... haven't gotten that far in the History of ME yet 😉
I think that information was published just in the very recent Nature of Middle-Earth
Danke!
Always love hearing Rainbow Dave gush over awesome elves.
Dave of the many Colours, thank you again for a wonderful video. Friday goes by at a rush with work deadlines and meetings and the knowledge that your video is there, calling all day like a lover waiting for the reunion with a loved one…
Love the tangents and lembas and Galadriel and Frodo and the hope for salvation.
Can’t wait for the next.
Checked everyday whether this episode was uploaded. This series is absolute class and you are master of your craft! 🎉
Your Christopher Lee-as-Mîm voice is impeccable! 🤌
I find it interesting that greed is such a strong dwarven character trait given that you can argue that Aule’s greed is the reason they came to exist. It almost like they inherited Aule’s greed as much as his love for crafting.
Yes.
Aule was not greedy, he shared all his works willingly with basically the whole world. He was motivated to create Dwarves because he longed for company
@@Crafty_Spirit I’m not saying he was greedy. Everyone has a degree of greed to themselves. But he made the dwarves in secret because he longed for something he couldn’t have. It was an act of greed, that does not define him as greedy
@@AlexMartin-yv1lb , you're right. It's more like a need to have something right away. And dwarves love of treasure is how that feeling Aule had manifests in them
@@AlexMartin-yv1lb I would say impatience might have been a more descriptive term for his (sub) creation of the Dwarves, though greed isn't necessarily inaccurate. I love how when Iluvatar catches him and says "what are you up to, Son", and he's like "just trying to imitate you, Dad."
I have thoroughly enjoyed just about every Tolkien legendarium video you have ever made. Your videos are masterful and thorough and that’s why I was completely surprised when you omitted one of the greatest lines ever spoken from Beleg to Thingol. “Then give me leave my Lord to go to him and guard him, then let no one say that Elvish words are lightly spoken!” This omission is practically egregious! I expect to see it addressed lol.
Today was a good day!!! Awwww yeah! Let’s go~ you da man Dave!!
Great Job Mellon! Well met RD! This part of Turumbar's tale just goes to show that you should never underestimate the will of a vengeful soul..
Many thanks, sir.
Just noticing this time through, the parallel between Lembas bread and Earth bread. Both are closely guarded secrets to their cultures, and make the difference between life and death at critical moments in their respective stories.
Tolkien was very talented with designing so called villians with complex origins and motivations. Mim and the Petty Dwarves are dastardly, pitiful, and sympathetic.
Friendship: restored
Lembas: eaten
Heart: swole
Thank you Dave! I was already worried… what a wonderful way to start a weekend 🌈🤩🤩 one thing I have to sadly say, though… you have forever spoiled me for all the other Tolkien content creators …. I seem to find real pleasure only in watching your videos. But… what a pleasure it is!🤩🤩🤩
I could listen to you all day!
Best regards from Germany
I’ve never known which way to fall on Mim - empathy or a deserved ending. Maybe empathy.. but still such a part of the story that brings up emotions. Thanks 🌈 Dave
Empathy, the Nolder hunted them to near extinction. Drove them from their homes, you know, your basic Noldor led genocide.
@@michaelsmyth3935 Justified
Both. Past experience doesn't justify what he did, but it is fair to feel sad for his life.
I keep re watching these collections because they are SO WELL DONE! Easily one of the best Tolkien channels out there.
Started my day with this notification, OMG
Incredible companion to my afternoon as always!
Wonderful Sigh! Was waiting wistfully for this and it was well worth the wait. Hee hee alliteration.
Another awesome Friday thanks in part to a Tolkien Untangled video
love this series graphic commentary analysis anticipating every instalment . Turin was my favourite chapters in Selmirillion 20 years ago when i read it and never forgotten
Man, another amazing video. I can't get enough of this story. And Beleg finally coming back into it juat makes everything better
Thank you for this deep explanation, this is one of the parts of the story that brought up the most questions for me , even trying to imagine the place... And yes, just like Gollum you wish the friendship can save him...
Amazing too what you said about the legendareum spinning out from here, something about this story and how it captures the suffering of men, near to Morgth, it just changed my way of seeing Middle Earth and the meaning of evil.
I have, for a couple of hours now, been scrolling through the comments on a lot of this channels videos, as well as other «tolkien-themed» channels, and I have to say that never before have i seen a comment section so peacefull and respectfull, and not to mention informative and interresting! Tolkien fans are just the best.
Thanks very much. I’m fortunate to have great viewers!
thank you so much for this, Rainbow Dave! Your children of hurin installments also fall on my payday...so it's always a nice way to end the week! hehe! be well!
Yeah! A new video! Looking forward to listen to it 😊
Oh damn. I only just noticed that this was just posted. Alright, time to assault my boxes of books and drag this out. I can't wait. "Well met, indeed."
Hey Dave! I gotta tell ya since I've lived here in south Alabama for 30 years I've come to really love good cornbread. So naturally, at the first mention of elven corn bread made with magical corn no less, I got pretty excited!
O MY GODDD thanx Rainbow Dave!!! 🌈❤️💛💚💙
thank you, i look forward to your vids more than any others and i so am for the next
Amazing. Thank you Rainbow Dave
Great video and great Chanel ! You inspired me to read all of Tolkien (which as a French guy is not always as easy as it seems !) ^^
Another astounding vid, brother. Of all your awesome content this might be one of your finest. But I have a hint the next one will be just epic.
Thank you again, Sir Dave, for continuing to tell one of my absolute favorite stories from the legendarium! Your labor is adored, and appreciated!
Be good to yourself!
I never understood why People call it "Complaint of Mîm".
Yes "die Klage" can mean to "complaint" but has many other meanings and I feel complaint doesn't really hit right. Personally I think "lament(-ation)" would be the more fitting re-translation
Lamentation should both cover an aspect of accusation and a sorrowful complaint, I like it
This was awesome! Thanks for the hard work, as always! I feel your drive to be comprehensive is inspring!
Thank you kindly for your time and labour. You always put those to good use.
Oh boy, i know what's coming. Epic awesomeness and bull crappy all at once. Gonna need a box of tissues for the next one.
Such a masterpiece. and I don't speak about the obvious one that Tolkien creating I'm talking about yours.
Thank you Dave
Thanks!
I love your videos,they are amazing,you make tolkien stories live!I can't wait for you to get to the fall of gondolin,i really hope you adress one of my favorite elves,Ecthelion of the Fountain😁
Yesssssssssss!!!!!
It would be practically impossible to omit Ecthelion from that story
This was epic, once again! Can't wait for the next one!
Fuck yeah ,, let’s goooooo 🔥🔥🔥
The best story teller on UA-cam ❤
Great video! Can't wait for the next one! ❤
Wow well worth the wait👍
Poor Beleg. He attached his fate to the worst person possible.
God i laughed out loud when you said "..which demonstrates a great amount of self control on my part" because A. yes, yes it did. And B. I had been waiting for a Beleg tangent, we share alot of favorite elves (I get the feeling alot of people do reading comments). Ahh its rare and i appreciate the laugh.
Great work my friend. Liked and commented as always. Keep making these phenomenal videos, many share in your passion but few show it so openly nor share it so freely and truly I am thankful. Ill keep sharing with friends (some are finally starting to get into the FA and SA stories thanks to your charming and entertaining delivery!) As you deserve every sub and many more than you have currently (although for 3 years doing beloved and well covered stories, id say youve done very well and I wish you more success)
Lol I dont know how I feel about your improved cliffhanging ability though! ❤️
I want to write the same comment on every video. I appreciate your sincere passion for your subjects. I am impressed you pronounce all the names.
Thanks!
I love Turin's story, it is so incredibly dramatic.
So well done! Thank you.
Sir Rainbow!
I absolutely LOVE your videos and thoroughly enjoying the Children of Húrin series. i recently finished your adapting the second age series, i was wondering if you ever plan to do a second age series like you did your the first age? Anyway THANK YOU for all of your hard work on these videos they are so so so enjoyable to watch and to hear you tell Tolkiens epic tale! Big love x
Awesome!!! Thank you for all your hard work.
*COMPLAINT OF MIM THE DWARF* - I did a search and found this - I TRANSLATED TOLKIEN'S "LOST" POEM | 'The Complaint of Mîm the Dwarf' by Brewing Books. The link starts from the reading of the translation: ua-cam.com/video/S7zJBF5ggyw/v-deo.htmlsi=0VUG-qLEoI0WO4jI&t=495
Bravo again!
Ty Dave
Deign and Churl I'm bringing back into common usage. Whose With Me?
The tale should be called "Turin and Beleg: A Bromance"
Epic. Helping out the algorithm with comments.
Hi! Absolutely love the work you put into making these! Thank you c: are you palling to make a video about Gondor/it's fiefdoms? I feel like that's something not widely covered yet. I also would apprecciate your thoughts on especially the fiefdoms (maybe headcannons) since they are among my favourite tidbits of lore.
Have a nice day!
Thanks! I plan to get to the history and geography of Gondor eventually.
Meme, the one dwarf that will never be forgotten.
Nice work dude
I find the idea of conditional gift-giving on the part of Melian to be interesting.
Can you please post your videos in regular basis like every week.
Because we wait and wait and don't know when you gonna post the next one.
Another thing you used to post them faster than you do now, so hopefully you gonna do that from now on.
Great job by the way, keep on.
Love your videos.
Go to the community post for an explanation of your request.
🌈 Dave puts a tremendous amount of time into each video. They are mostly over half an hour long. Would you rather get a 8-12 minute video once a week? Not me. I appreciate the quality and the length of these videos.
Very VERY cool one! I’ve watched dozens of your videos obviously and I love them ask but for some reason this one was SUPREMELY interesting & entertaining! I think party because this is such a poorly explored & little known chapter of the story of Middle Earth. Mim is such an interesting character…I’m not sure if I like him or hate him lol 😂 Either way, I thoroughly enjoyed your video about the Petty Dwarves!!
Thanks!
Love your work 🌈💕
Yes, yes, yes! Thanks, RD ❤
17:00 Turin had no hope of saving himself, let alone Mim.
Mim ended up as he was as a direct result of being cheated, stolen from, and cast in to the wild by those precious Elves.
Why is it just fine when the heroes are doing evil?
Extortion through threats of physical violence, what a great bunch of guys.
You know it makes perfect sense to me that they would be known as petty Dwarves since even though I can really empathize with Mim, at the same time, I really don't care to lol. He was not treated fairly but at the same time was truly awful and evil to Turin and deserved everything he got aside from laying his filthy hands on the treasure of Nargothrond.
You refer to Galadriel in this as if she has a large role in the lord of the rings. You're wrong. The rings of power thankfully remedy this. I love how they show Galadriel in that. She struggles as much as anyone to defeat evil. What a brilliant tv series!!!
@tolkienuntangled could you tell us, in or off video, about how many people are roughly in this group of outlaws? Just curious. Cuz sometimes I think it 5 people, sometimes I think it 40. Lol. I'm not gonna try and spell the name of the band of outlaws lol
Originally there were 60 of them, but by the time Túrin joined they had dwindled to 50, and by the end of this video it’s probably about 40.
Mim reminds me a little bit of Shylock from "the Merchant of Venice"
Oh yeah!!
Ever since I read the Silmarillion I have been baffled that there is a dwarf deadass named Meme and no one is talking about it.
The music you chose for this video in its first 12 mins makes the petty Dwarves seem really creepy. Almost like they are some lesser creation of morgoth or some sort of race from the void, like ungoliant. That or some variety of Mutation of the Dwarven race which could be a reason why they were cast out by their own people, and from there just de-evolved even further. Just plain scary stuff really.
They were likely banished from the original home of the Dwarves: Mount Gundabad. And I think they are the reverse of Durin's Folk. Durin had no mate and thus didn't take a wife until the 2nd or 3rd generation of Dwarves were born. And it was how he also gained followers. His children became the Royal Line, while the rest of Durin's Folk were those that followed Durin to where he founded Khazad-dum.
The Petty-Dwarves were probably 3rd and 4th generation Dwarves who were banished, and so maybe banded together to found their own "house" (as it were).
Where did you find the info on Finrod's interactions with the petty-dwarves at the beginning of Nargothrond? The little I'd been able to find out from HoMe didn't have any of those details on the initial friendship between them or the petty dwarves trying to kill him, or Mim's personal involvement. I write fanfiction, and try to make the details as accurate as possible. Can you give a reference for me to go look at?
Oh, it's in the most recent one, which I haven't read yet. Clearly I need to change this... thanks for the new info!
He’s like the hound lol
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
@@tolkienuntangled no thank u 🙏🏿
Just Keeping on going 🔥🔥
I also think the Petty-Dwarves are a remnant of Tolkien's first pass at his legendarium when the Dwarves were creatures of Morgoth. As the years passed and the cosmos evolved, Tolkien rehabilitated the Dwarves, adopting them as one of the Free Peoples, and transferring their creation to Aulë. However the story of Turin, being one of the original core stories, still needed a bad Dwarf, thus the creation of the Petty-Dwarves to fill the ancient part of the story and keep the greater Dwarves as good guys for the Hobbit and LotR.
I just saw a video where you promised a remake of your Rings of Power season 1, but I can't find it. Is this something you are still working on?
27:36
Did Mim invent dabbing? Have we all been spelling "meme" wrong all these years?!
I think the story of Mim is one of the many, many great examples of Tolkien’s complex and nuanced grasp of the varying effects of trauma on the psyche. I know it's not an allegory for WWI, but I'm sure that his experiences there gave him an amazing insight into what it can do. And, while for some people, it can deepen them or lead them to increased empathy or pity, for others it has the opposite effect. It can put them in constant survival mode and undo their ability to read character.
I didn't know all that background on Mim before this video, and I do adore Finrod Felagund. But I never blamed Mim for attempting to kill him at all. The elves, for whatever reason, hunted his kind to extinction. (Even if they didn't actually kill the last of them, their numbers had dwindled to where they could no longer reproduce, which is why I do not say near-extinction.) How arrogant is it to expect forgiveness for that, or be surprised when it isn't given? Especially for elves who also have long memories and a penchant for grudges?
If Mim could forgive. He cannot. And I don't think that's his fault. That's why trauma is complex. Good can grow from it, but so can evil, and hardness, and anger. We have a hard time understanding how people we pity and who have been victims can at the same time be people we are angry with or do things we abhor. We want to be able to delineate neatly between good guys and bad guys. Mim defies this, as do real people.
“Earth bread”, also known as “taters”…
PO-TA-TOES
😅
14:00-15:35.. name of background song/music?
Dwarves and men hybridized... Hobbits and petty Dwarves. Pulled it from my...
Dwarflets
Contrast Turin and Tuor’s story. Ulmo always knew the house of Hador would deliver the salvation of the Noldor but did he know it would be Tuor or Turin? For much of the story it could have been Turin, or Tuor but the decisions made by each (and the choices of the mothers) delivered them to their fate. This is very similar to JK Rowlings concept that the “Chosen One” spelled out in the prophecy could have been either Neville or Harry at one point. JK Rowling studied this material very closely indeed.