Of course it's a good thing to have it. It's always good. The idea of heaven and Hell is What his guided people's actions for centuries... Without heaven and Hell there's nothing as incentive to make you do good... There is nothing as punishment for doing bad... So is that idea was not there everybody would just do whatever the hell they want and we'd be extinct long ago
Chaos? I thought they were talking about Star Wars, not Warhammer? Or is Woke Disney so drained of an imagination that they have to copy another groups creation.
Chaos sounds more like our concept of Purgatory than Hell. Regarding how some manage to escape, I don't think it's too crazy to think that a force master, with literally nothing to do except meditate for centuries, would either let go of their darkness and rejoin the light, as Ajunta Pall did, or learn how to escape back to the living world.
Hell and heaven DO exist In Fate of the Jedi Books. In addition to force ghosts, there is a special planet with a force nexus where the dead can be visited as avatars. Here, Luke and Ben see Mara Skywalker, who’s is experiencing what we would understand as ‘heaven’, or as she describes she is “at peace and experiencing a sort of spiritual clarity and enlightenment”. Jacen or Darth Caedus is experiencing what we would know as ‘Hell’, as he says, he is experiencing “Eternal Suffering”. Thanks again Disney for removing anything meaningful or interesting from the series 😢🙄.
Aw but the Disney films gave us a bunch of questions without answers (unless you buy a comic book) and convoluted story lines. Don't you like those things? Don't you enjoy being frustrated during and let down after? In all seriousness though, and I know I'll prob get harpooned for this, I think Last Jedi was the best of the sequel trilogy. Not saying I'm the biggest fan of it, but it stands above 7 and 9 imo, JJ Abrams put Luke on that island, not Ryan Johnson, so I don't know what else he was supposed to do with it really. Films with adapted Legends story lines would have been far superior
I love these deep dives you do. I feel your pain with the new canon, but there's so much Legends stuff out there to still explore. I've read *a lot* of Legends material over the years, but there are still new things I discover all the time, in part thanks to your videos.
Given how star wars' mythology is based off of eastern myth, my personal opinion is that those who strongly serve the light or are good/true jedi like are allowed to persist a bit longer with those allowed to become force ghosts even more so and interact with the world, before returning to the cycle of reincarnation/whatever the force does with the soul. Chaos/hell however, is meant not only as a punishment, but also as a means to purify the soul so it can be returned to the force. Those with particularly evil and powerful souls will take longer to purify and may need to be isolated.
*puts Supernatural Encounters again on personal library shelf* Why, yes, but us Star Wars denizens don't call it Hell (well, apart from the Corellians). Oh, and Heaven also exists, but we also don't call it that. By the way, Yoda is an angel nowadays.
I personally don't like the idea of chaos, i much prefer the idea that the jedi and sith (and every lifeform) go to the same place after death, ie becoming one with the force, and that while the jedi are accepting of the oneness and essentially merging with the spirits every lifefrom that has ever died, accepting that they will lose their individuality and join a greater being, the sith foolishly try to avoid their inevitable fate, and instead fight against the natural order of things as in their POV, oneness with the force essentially hell, where their individuality, possessions and power are gone and instead they have to merge with everybody else
That depends on who writes. Some times jedi's bodies disappears when killed, sometimes not. There is also on Darth Bane's trilogy, some bad things after death. Like people's spirits trapped on the thought bomb (similar to the crystal in Korriban which Exar Khun finds many jedi masters trapped) and what can happen to you if you fail the ritual of body transfer. You would wander on the "void" for eternity.
I never studied this so its just my assumption but I like the idea of light side users seeing in the chaos. Their light side being the literal source of light in the dark
I think the reason Marka ragnos shows up on yavin 4 (and somehow looks a million years younger) is because the stuff revan was doing to try to bring back the emperor was attracting the dark side spirits, pretty much everyone and their dog showed up as a ghost their around that time, including naga sadow which doesn't make any sense since I'm pretty sure his spirit got destroyed by freedon naad
Palpatine came back both in the EU and Disney wars .. in the EU he inhabited a clone that was created for just that purpose... Honestly don't know what kind of poop bunny they pulled out of a hat in Disney Wars lol
It the same reason they got rid of every other force sensitive order and faction in the new Canon because it's easier the for them to focus on just Jedi and Sith. Ever then they are bad at it because they think if you just believe you can use powerful force abilities without any training.
I do feel "chaos" being this black void is rather appropriate. Since the Jedi desire to become one with the force and therefore one with life itself the opposite of that would be to be completely disconnected from all things. To be utterly alone. That would be an appropriate fate for those that seek to dominate and control all.
Could the dark side spirits seen be related to your recent topic of psychometry? Are the "spirits", tied to places or artifacts, powerful psychometry? So powerful one need not have the gift, or even so powerful not even force "sensitivity" in order to see them? Their true soul is in Chaos, but this force echo or what have you remains?
They have their similarities, but they're not the same thing. Psychometry is an ability to essentially "feel" the history of an object, a place, or a corpse upon contact. This history manifests itself in the form of slightly distorted input from sight, sound, physical and emotional feelings, and events associated with the object, place or corpse. It was easier to use on personal objects that were used frequently, or in places were a wound in the Force was opened, such as the collective death of a high number of people. But it's not the same thing as Essence Transfer because there's no need for a Dark Side spirit to reside within the object or place in order to use Psychometry. And while any force-sensitive can see a Dark Side spirit contained within an artifact or place should it visibly manifest itself, not everyone can "feel" the artifact's history because Psychometry can only be used by those born with the ability.
The ritual exar kun performed was similar to the ritual vitiate did, exar kun also absorbed all the over 30,000 massasi warriors dark energy but because of the wall of light made by over 2000+ jedis it backfire, the source say it was going to make exar kun "all powerful" even as a drained depleted spirit he managed to outlived tenebrae and papaltine, him pinned down luke Skywalker who was 3 times more powerful than vader show how powerful exar kun really was also tom veich say on his Twitter that exar kun alive was far more powerful than his spirit version
I believe that a Jedi who dies does hopefully become one with the force like Kanan Jarrus explained to Ezra Bridger in the Rebel series. A Sith who dies passes on into nothingness like those Sith spirits that Yoda encountered on Korriban and not Moraband told Yoda that their is no life after death
Weeeeeeell... now that i saw this, I wonder, the Jedi say "There is no Chaos there is Harmony." I wonder if there is something more metaphisical to that, or of it's just the literal meaning.
After Palpatine is defeated, he perishes in Hell for eternity, in anguish and torment so terrible that even a billionth of a second couldn’t bear. Not even a ten to the trillionth powerth (1/101,000,000,000,000) of a second could bear. Once the Sith are in hell, they are truly sorry they ever chose the dark side, and wish they didn’t do it. “If only…” is all they will ever say or eons. The Jedi on the other hand, go to Heaven and live in eternal joy and bliss and enjoy endless pleasure, in golden eons of peace and prosperity. Getting everything they could ever want. Powerful and RICH beyond their wildest dreams! Far beyond the biggest billionaire! The Netherworld of the Force is Heaven!
Oh now *this* I want to know. Edit: I do think that having a form of hell and heaven in star wars is nice to some degree. As there’s more to fear from eternity with nothing but thoughts and darkness, than just…ceasing to exist. You can’t suffer if you don’t exist.
Love it or hate it, I personally love it, the best stories right now for Star Wars are in the Old Republic mmo. Probably because it is, as of right now, the last and only piece of the Legends canon still being worked on.
I don't think Disney Star Wars Conan won't touched this subject because that concept is two out there for the lucasfilm story group. Disney made the Star wars universe feel smaller. Ever main characters are humans, they wipe out ever other fourth sensitive order to seemly only have stories revolving around the force only involved the Sith and the Jedi. They killed off nearly ever interesting background and side character from both the original trilogy and the prequels to prop up new ones. At this point I won't be surprise if they try to get rid of the force all together. I would love to see sith ghosts ones more in Star wars but I don't think they will bring them back.
What I was taught about the Orthodox Christian view of the after life is that their theologians see the light of God’s love and the fires of hell as the same thing. Both the saved and the damned exist in the presence of God after death, but it is your relationship with God, i.e. your perception of his presence, that determines whether you experience it as a healing balm or a burning torment. I see the fate of a Sith Lord in the same way. They become one with the force just like the Jedi, but they struggle against the Force to preserve their own egos. As a result they are in darkness, because the shut their eyes to the light of the force. They are trapped near the places and things they associated with themselves in life, because they refuse to move on and embrace the broader universe.
I will always hate that After fighting for freedom and self control, to not be slaves to the force the sith are once again bound by chains, Kreia was Right.
Part of me would love to see a Star Wars movie or series deal with these types of issues, but then again the other half of me just wishes Star Wars would FUCKING DISAPPEAR!!! I'm Bi-Polar, big deal
I dont think there us a heaven and he'll in Star Wars just the force and how you use it effects what happens to you. I think jedi becoming force ghosts is lije tgem becoming duties in a sense who are responsible for upholding the will of the force and saving other force users who would have decended into chaose. Given tgat the Sith fight to keep their morality is why they are trapped in a state where they can only reach out to ontrol and posses. After all rgats what they wanted isn't it? Careful what you wish for I guess. But now the jedi during the 6 movies have obtained the ability to become truly one with the force they can save sith who die from chaose and show them the path to peace. With 8nf8nite tine and access to the world between worlds, that's a Neverending job bit it diesnt matter because a force ghost has infinity so I guess that us why we'd see it as heaven. That's my theory pretty much based only on the shows and movies up till the end of Boba Fett.
I don’t like this idea. Only Jedi should be able to live on in any form after death. The Sith are doomed to constantly seek eternal life, and in doing so, deny themselves of it.
What if Chaos a realm that (most likely) abeloth had dominion over due to...well her being a living imbodiment of Force Chaos or maybe the Son's domain(?)
@@100StarWars It was just a theory tbh because since The Son is the living embodiment of the Dark side I just think it would be possible for him to access the chaos dimension that Are Meant for dark side force users. As for Abeloth I figured since she could access the force netherworld I just thought she could also be able to access that realm as well.
I think in the new Canon that you just dissolve into the force but I do hope they bring back the concept of a afterlife in star wars and explore chaos and the netherworld in future stories.
I don't really have a fancy quip to put here today... things have been pretty chaotic let me tell you.
this would be cool but idk if this canon😅.
You okay, Lukey?
Of course it's a good thing to have it. It's always good. The idea of heaven and Hell is What his guided people's actions for centuries... Without heaven and Hell there's nothing as incentive to make you do good... There is nothing as punishment for doing bad... So is that idea was not there everybody would just do whatever the hell they want and we'd be extinct long ago
Took me a second to get it. XD
You're lucky we don't have misguided plans to put you in the Warp, if not the Backrooms.
In the end, as the Darkness takes me; I am nothing.
When you think about what Chaos is, it gives these words so much more meaning.
One of my favorite quotes of all time.
Chaos?
I thought they were talking about Star Wars, not Warhammer?
Or is Woke Disney so drained of an imagination that they have to copy another groups creation.
@@Americandragonrider333. so now is a question what is older chicken or the egg?
@@Americandragonrider333. 🤦♂️
Chaos sounds more like our concept of Purgatory than Hell. Regarding how some manage to escape, I don't think it's too crazy to think that a force master, with literally nothing to do except meditate for centuries, would either let go of their darkness and rejoin the light, as Ajunta Pall did, or learn how to escape back to the living world.
Ajunta needed outside persuasion though don't forget.
limbo, not purgatory.
Hell and heaven DO exist In Fate of the Jedi Books. In addition to force ghosts, there is a special planet with a force nexus where the dead can be visited as avatars. Here, Luke and Ben see Mara Skywalker, who’s is experiencing what we would understand as ‘heaven’, or as she describes she is “at peace and experiencing a sort of spiritual clarity and enlightenment”. Jacen or Darth Caedus is experiencing what we would know as ‘Hell’, as he says, he is experiencing “Eternal Suffering”. Thanks again Disney for removing anything meaningful or interesting from the series 😢🙄.
Interesting
Is it the same Force Nexus from that one episode of The Clone Wars?
@@louisduarte8763 I’m not sure… I need to read the book again, but could be
@@louisduarte8763 I’m not sure but it’s definitely connected to the legends version of the story of “The ones”
Aw but the Disney films gave us a bunch of questions without answers (unless you buy a comic book) and convoluted story lines. Don't you like those things? Don't you enjoy being frustrated during and let down after?
In all seriousness though, and I know I'll prob get harpooned for this, I think Last Jedi was the best of the sequel trilogy. Not saying I'm the biggest fan of it, but it stands above 7 and 9 imo, JJ Abrams put Luke on that island, not Ryan Johnson, so I don't know what else he was supposed to do with it really.
Films with adapted Legends story lines would have been far superior
I love these deep dives you do. I feel your pain with the new canon, but there's so much Legends stuff out there to still explore. I've read *a lot* of Legends material over the years, but there are still new things I discover all the time, in part thanks to your videos.
Yeah, Chaos seems like a kinda wild name for something that's pretty calm lmao
Just nice... peaceful darkness.
Well, think of stagnant water
I've never thought of the concept of Hell in Star Wars.
Thanks for sharing.
The more you know!
yes. thought hey call it "Chaos." it is a place reserved for the Sith, and those like them.
I had that comic when I was a kid. I remember being so fascinated by those last few pages.
I like every video you post whether or not I actually got to listen while I watched it or not lol
Given how star wars' mythology is based off of eastern myth, my personal opinion is that those who strongly serve the light or are good/true jedi like are allowed to persist a bit longer with those allowed to become force ghosts even more so and interact with the world, before returning to the cycle of reincarnation/whatever the force does with the soul.
Chaos/hell however, is meant not only as a punishment, but also as a means to purify the soul so it can be returned to the force. Those with particularly evil and powerful souls will take longer to purify and may need to be isolated.
I’ve wondered about this topic for a long time. Thanks for the video. (also commenting to try to help out with the algorithm)
Thank you, good sir!
*puts Supernatural Encounters again on personal library shelf* Why, yes, but us Star Wars denizens don't call it Hell (well, apart from the Corellians).
Oh, and Heaven also exists, but we also don't call it that. By the way, Yoda is an angel nowadays.
LOL
Apparently it does, according to Han.
Yes. They have 3 different names for it known as "The Chaos", "The Void", and "Hell"
I personally don't like the idea of chaos, i much prefer the idea that the jedi and sith (and every lifeform) go to the same place after death, ie becoming one with the force, and that while the jedi are accepting of the oneness and essentially merging with the spirits every lifefrom that has ever died, accepting that they will lose their individuality and join a greater being, the sith foolishly try to avoid their inevitable fate, and instead fight against the natural order of things as in their POV, oneness with the force essentially hell, where their individuality, possessions and power are gone and instead they have to merge with everybody else
That depends on who writes. Some times jedi's bodies disappears when killed, sometimes not.
There is also on Darth Bane's trilogy, some bad things after death. Like people's spirits trapped on the thought bomb (similar to the crystal in Korriban which Exar Khun finds many jedi masters trapped) and what can happen to you if you fail the ritual of body transfer. You would wander on the "void" for eternity.
Essence tranfer is not a ritual exar kun papaltine and marka ragnos have been able to come back from the void
In new sw canon we don't even get somewhat good stories so I doubt we will get anything where they talk about the afterlife
Great new video! A lot of (I'd even go so far as to say the vast majority) Star Wars fans don't know this.
Yeah it's a rather untouched subject.
I never studied this so its just my assumption but I like the idea of light side users seeing in the chaos. Their light side being the literal source of light in the dark
Yeah it's a nice little detail.
I think the reason Marka ragnos shows up on yavin 4 (and somehow looks a million years younger) is because the stuff revan was doing to try to bring back the emperor was attracting the dark side spirits, pretty much everyone and their dog showed up as a ghost their around that time, including naga sadow which doesn't make any sense since I'm pretty sure his spirit got destroyed by freedon naad
interesting that Chaos to a lightsider is just sight within the mirrored dimension. There are so fascinating stories to be told about it.
Indeed.
In Dark Empire the Sith spirits told Palpatine to “join them in Chaos” which implies that Sith spirits can interact with one another in chaos.
Palpatine came back both in the EU and Disney wars .. in the EU he inhabited a clone that was created for just that purpose... Honestly don't know what kind of poop bunny they pulled out of a hat in Disney Wars lol
Disney wars was poorly written
Essence transfer is very different in this regard.
Disney writers aren't talented enough to write this rich lore with depth stakes philosophy world building creativity inspiration and maturity
It the same reason they got rid of every other force sensitive order and faction in the new Canon because it's easier the for them to focus on just Jedi and Sith. Ever then they are bad at it because they think if you just believe you can use powerful force abilities without any training.
I do feel "chaos" being this black void is rather appropriate. Since the Jedi desire to become one with the force and therefore one with life itself the opposite of that would be to be completely disconnected from all things. To be utterly alone. That would be an appropriate fate for those that seek to dominate and control all.
Damn. So early
Could the dark side spirits seen be related to your recent topic of psychometry? Are the "spirits", tied to places or artifacts, powerful psychometry? So powerful one need not have the gift, or even so powerful not even force "sensitivity" in order to see them? Their true soul is in Chaos, but this force echo or what have you remains?
They have their similarities, but they're not the same thing.
Psychometry is an ability to essentially "feel" the history of an object, a place, or a corpse upon contact. This history manifests itself in the form of slightly distorted input from sight, sound, physical and emotional feelings, and events associated with the object, place or corpse. It was easier to use on personal objects that were used frequently, or in places were a wound in the Force was opened, such as the collective death of a high number of people.
But it's not the same thing as Essence Transfer because there's no need for a Dark Side spirit to reside within the object or place in order to use Psychometry.
And while any force-sensitive can see a Dark Side spirit contained within an artifact or place should it visibly manifest itself, not everyone can "feel" the artifact's history because Psychometry can only be used by those born with the ability.
"Then I will see you in the Third Corellian version of Hell! - Hand Smolo
Doesn't have the same ring to it now does it?
Hahaha
Well we know from the rise of Skywalker that a Sith spirit can prevent himself or herself from going into chaos as Darth Sidious demonstrated.
The ritual exar kun performed was similar to the ritual vitiate did, exar kun also absorbed all the over 30,000 massasi warriors dark energy but because of the wall of light made by over 2000+ jedis it backfire, the source say it was going to make exar kun "all powerful" even as a drained depleted spirit he managed to outlived tenebrae and papaltine, him pinned down luke Skywalker who was 3 times more powerful than vader show how powerful exar kun really was also tom veich say on his Twitter that exar kun alive was far more powerful than his spirit version
Jedi code has one line: 'there is no CHAOS, there is HARMONY'. Maybe CHAOS and HARMONY could represent images of HELL and HEAVEN in our universe.
Nice catch!
I believe that a Jedi who dies does hopefully become one with the force like Kanan Jarrus explained to Ezra Bridger in the Rebel series. A Sith who dies passes on into nothingness like those Sith spirits that Yoda encountered on Korriban and not Moraband told Yoda that their is no life after death
If it does “Then I’ll see you in hell”
Consider what Odin did to Thor in the first MCU Thor film. He took away his power and banished him to Earth in order to teach him a lesson.
Weeeeeeell... now that i saw this, I wonder, the Jedi say "There is no Chaos there is Harmony." I wonder if there is something more metaphisical to that, or of it's just the literal meaning.
;)
Yea it does and it’s call being the personal assistant of Darth Vader, it’s hard job
Lmao
Interesting
yes.
Don't forget about Freedon Nadd
Yeah he was also an odd one out in this regard.
Didn't palps escape chaos?
After Palpatine is defeated, he perishes in Hell for eternity, in anguish and torment so terrible that even a billionth of a second couldn’t bear. Not even a ten to the trillionth powerth (1/101,000,000,000,000) of a second could bear.
Once the Sith are in hell, they are truly sorry they ever chose the dark side, and wish they didn’t do it. “If only…” is all they will ever say or eons.
The Jedi on the other hand, go to Heaven and live in eternal joy and bliss and enjoy endless pleasure, in golden eons of peace and prosperity. Getting everything they could ever want. Powerful and RICH beyond their wildest dreams! Far beyond the biggest billionaire!
The Netherworld of the Force is Heaven!
Interestingly this is closer to actual hell than the modern interpretation. That was brought upon by Dantes Divine Comedy, not the Bible
Oh now *this* I want to know.
Edit: I do think that having a form of hell and heaven in star wars is nice to some degree. As there’s more to fear from eternity with nothing but thoughts and darkness, than just…ceasing to exist. You can’t suffer if you don’t exist.
Indeed!
Yeah, it's called "the Disney canon".
Yes, that's where Disney's Star Wars came from and is now.
Yes it does. And we're currently in it with Disney...
Oh :O
@@100StarWars MHM...
Disney is worse than hell
Andor is amazing so far
Does Heaven exist in Star Wars? Where do Jedi go when they die?
Love it or hate it, I personally love it, the best stories right now for Star Wars are in the Old Republic mmo. Probably because it is, as of right now, the last and only piece of the Legends canon still being worked on.
Yes! It is called Episode 7,8 &9 lol. I'm half kidding.
dont be just half...
I don't think Disney Star Wars Conan won't touched this subject because that concept is two out there for the lucasfilm story group. Disney made the Star wars universe feel smaller. Ever main characters are humans, they wipe out ever other fourth sensitive order to seemly only have stories revolving around the force only involved the Sith and the Jedi. They killed off nearly ever interesting background and side character from both the original trilogy and the prequels to prop up new ones.
At this point I won't be surprise if they try to get rid of the force all together. I would love to see sith ghosts ones more in Star wars but I don't think they will bring them back.
What I was taught about the Orthodox Christian view of the after life is that their theologians see the light of God’s love and the fires of hell as the same thing. Both the saved and the damned exist in the presence of God after death, but it is your relationship with God, i.e. your perception of his presence, that determines whether you experience it as a healing balm or a burning torment. I see the fate of a Sith Lord in the same way. They become one with the force just like the Jedi, but they struggle against the Force to preserve their own egos. As a result they are in darkness, because the shut their eyes to the light of the force. They are trapped near the places and things they associated with themselves in life, because they refuse to move on and embrace the broader universe.
👍
So... Silent Hill basically
Hmm... Interesting comparison haha
COMMENT FOR THE ALGORITHM
Ye BOI
I will always hate that After fighting for freedom and self control, to not be slaves to the force the sith are once again bound by chains, Kreia was Right.
That is the way of the Dark Side.
I feel like this is this is the video you make when your out of ideas
Of course.
When Woke Disney bought Lucasfilms is the day that Star Wars got Hell!
Part of me would love to see a Star Wars movie or series deal with these types of issues, but then again the other half of me just wishes Star Wars would FUCKING DISAPPEAR!!!
I'm Bi-Polar, big deal
I dont think there us a heaven and he'll in Star Wars just the force and how you use it effects what happens to you. I think jedi becoming force ghosts is lije tgem becoming duties in a sense who are responsible for upholding the will of the force and saving other force users who would have decended into chaose. Given tgat the Sith fight to keep their morality is why they are trapped in a state where they can only reach out to ontrol and posses. After all rgats what they wanted isn't it? Careful what you wish for I guess. But now the jedi during the 6 movies have obtained the ability to become truly one with the force they can save sith who die from chaose and show them the path to peace. With 8nf8nite tine and access to the world between worlds, that's a Neverending job bit it diesnt matter because a force ghost has infinity so I guess that us why we'd see it as heaven. That's my theory pretty much based only on the shows and movies up till the end of Boba Fett.
I don’t like this idea. Only Jedi should be able to live on in any form after death.
The Sith are doomed to constantly seek eternal life, and in doing so, deny themselves of it.
Hell does exist in the universe…
It’s called the sequel trilogy.
What if Chaos a realm that (most likely) abeloth had dominion over due to...well her being a living imbodiment of Force Chaos or maybe the Son's domain(?)
Hmm, I don't think so.
@@100StarWars It was just a theory tbh because since The Son is the living embodiment of the Dark side I just think it would be possible for him to access the chaos dimension that Are
Meant for dark side force users. As for Abeloth I figured since she could access the force netherworld I just thought she could also be able to access that realm as well.
I think in the new Canon that you just dissolve into the force but I do hope they bring back the concept of a afterlife in star wars and explore chaos and the netherworld in future stories.
would be cool!