Agreed. Some cards were broken on release but became unplayable later, either because of power creep or because their combo pieces got banned, and some only became broken when new cards got added to the game. What would also be fun would be to show cards, and ask them to evaluate the effect and determine if the card got an errata or not, and maybe how it was changed for bonus points.
Not for Rarran. He would then have to know when the card came out and try and figure out what the power level of each format is. The way it is now he’s only guessing for one format which is nice because he clearly doesn’t have historical yugioh knowledge at all.
thanks for saving me an hour. I'm tired of these cimo videos where the guest gets the answer right but cimo goes "HAHA YOU WREE WRONG BECAUSE I DECIDED TO MAKE THE RULES BULLSHIT 🙃"
One thing to note about Injection Fairy Lily is that she was always a Secret or Ultra Rare or some promotion until 2011. So many children never had access to her, severely limiting her presence. I believe there are a lot of people that would have played her, if they had her.
I remember having 1 copy as a kid and it was like the number 1 playground bully card. That card most people don't have but those that do just have such an insane advantage. The other one I remember was Goblin Attack Force.
1000000% this. We used to test for IRL tournaments using YVD ( Yugioh Virtual Desktop ) and SO MANY competitive decks/champs were using her. She slotted into so many decks.
im not through with the video yet but he also forgot to mention when they were talking about reckless greed and rarran asked if it over time saw more play that it infact did. reckless greed always saw play in burn decks, it was also played in some decks that really wanted to fish for their combos deeper and it had a big hype when patrick hoban had his peak and made the ygo community realize why consistency is really important and how you could help your decks with it. upstart goblin especially but also reckless greed then saw quite some play in mermails, dragon rulers ( after they got hit first time ) and other decks.
I really want to see Cimo and Rarran play a “progression”-like series so we can see Rarran try to make his own deck in real time and slowly learn the game
@@christiangivens8788 lets make it funnier, it is a Yugioh X Hearthstone Progression Series Mix-Up. One week they play Yugioh, the other they play Hearthstone. If you win in Yugioh, you get a price for Hearthstone and vice versa to give the players a chance to win in the game they arent proficient at
Injection fairy lily was banned for one format, the very first tcg format to ever ban cards included ifl as one of the 4 banned cards. It was limited on the next list a couple months later
The banned cards on this banlist were only ever in effect for the OCG. The first banlist that banned cards for the TCG was the one after that. So the Lily ban on that list never actually affected the TCG in any way.
So I did some research because I thought it was banned at one point. Turns out the o ly time this card was banned that affected TCG players was for the 2004 world champion tournament. It was banned for that on a special ban list just for worlds
@@IyoMaestroat the time the TCG and ocg shared a ban list despite different release schedules. There were cards that were released banned in the TCG later, which is why the lists were separated
World's ban list works this way: All cards are set to their lowest allowed amount. So if it's unlimited in Japan and Forbidden in Brazil, the card if Forbidden at Worlds.
Something Rarran especially missed about Vampire Lord is that the equivalent effect in Hearthstone wouldn't be "has to be destroyed by an attack" it's "has to be destroyed by a minion with equal or higher attack" with a statline of like 6/4.
I mean, he's honestly just completely wrong, because recursive cards have always been really strong if they weren't RIDICULOUSLY understatted. Some examples being Cairne (not infinitely recursive, but the first semi-recursive effect), Rat King, Rattlegore, and Korrak to name a few off the top of my head.
That 3/5 red troll that MUST be honorably killed to actually die is the closest example Not really a threat but pretty annoying, kinda like vampire lord
@@Sinzari To be fair, most of those replaced themselves on the board immediately after being destroyed rather than with a delay (and the only one that didn't, Rat King, saw much less play than the rest)
I think an element that is severely under-clarified is just how combat works, in Hearthstone, unless a minion has Taunt, you don't HAVE to run over the guy, you can just soak him or Taunt him yourself and just go face, you don't get to do that in YGO, you have to battle the enemy board first And that does a lot towards how recursive mid-scale bodies are valued
48:00 considering Kaiba played essentially a deck destruction game in that duel it was double funny. His shock when Ishizu flips exchange after he played both deck destruction virus, getting rid of all her strongest monsters, and magic virus canon, getting rid of 10 of her spell cards, is just hilarious.
Explaining cold wave by using lotheb from hearthstone would really help make sense of it considering at the time it was released making spells cost 5 more basically shut off almost all removal and you could swing to win the next turn
thats a good comparison. but it lacks in some parts, like that the body of lotheb itself helps to swing board presence, and that you would waste most of your turn yourself on it. while in yugioh cold wave can also be used to mass swing gamestates with something like judgment dragon.
@@mauer1 Yeah cold wave is magnitudes better for other reasons, they just have the same theme of like, shutting off a large percentage of the cards that are going to be in your opponents deck to answer your aggression. Since yugioh actually has interaction during your opponents turn, unlike hearthstone, there will most likely never be a card quite like cold wave...
The worst thing about Injection Fairy as a kid was none of the people I played against understood the damage step. There would be arguments over that card all the time. And the original printing didn't say once per battle which was rough.
There's no worse feeling than trying to explain to your opponent in a civilized manner that they got it all mistaken. Wrong card game but when I played Duel Masters which is closest to MTG in design except all cards can be played as basic lands, I only play it with 1 other guy from my school and he was just not having it when I explained that the number on the top left (which would be their respective mana costs) actually mean something, and you can't attack using monsters you've already played as lands unless you also pay for its mana cost. I'm still salty about that shit 20 years later
@@jamesaditya5254 What ever happened to Duel Masters. I plated that for a bit as a kid and seem to remember it being a decent card game. Though I was also a YGO kid so never got into it as already spent all my pocket money on yugioh packs.
@@Noobie2k7 Hasbro discontinued set releases in 2006 for West because they always treated it like the Redheaded Step brother of MtG while The Japanese side of Hasbro, Takara Tomy, treated it with actual fucking care and it is 5th or so best OCG in Japan and still get regular box sets and the like
@@dannyharrell4818 The least they could do is keep making vidya for it. And I don't mean a gacha, just actual games. Still play the GBA ones from time to time.
I remember a kid back then trying to use this for ending the game in a draw He would consider the life point reduction and battle damage happened simultenously He did this just because he think it was hilarious, the only kid who could make a draw happen, then another kid got ring of destruction
Rarran, I am pretty sure Vampire Lord's effect would be way better in Heartstone. A premium like 5 mana 5/6 that HAS to be destroyed by battle would be really obnoxious especially if it is hiding behind a taunt. Korak saw play as a 4 mana 3/5 that had to be "honorably killed" (die by exact damage which did include spells at least) or it came back.
20:38 the real dream scenario and i saw it happen irl was first player set 4 in the back row and pass, second player activates heavy storm, the first player chains 3 reckless greed and a scapegoat
@@nuhrii3449I can see Cino's argument for Ultimate Offering being too slow but on the other hand if it lasts long enough to give you a 2nd Normal Summon that would be crazy for combo Decks that start with just 1 Normal Summon.
@@leebulger7112 You can also just play on your opponent's battle phase like it's nothing if your deck has the capability to generate advantage in this way
Fairy lily was very good. It was a very rare card, so almost no one owned one. Also it had negative synergy with a lot of decks, because you really wanted to normal summon specific things. The fact that she saw use despite not advancing any specific win con shows how powerful she was.
Inspired by a suggestion from the last Rarran vid; I'd love to see you take either the next or last Ban List update, let Rarran see all the cards that changed positions, and see if he can figure out which cards moved to where. :)
Didnt Reckless Greed see a lot of play in 2017 Paleos? I also remember Volcanics and Spellbooks sometimes utilized that card. It actually did age well, just not to a staple level.
The best part is Ultimate Offering. Rarran's exasperated, "What do you want me to say?" when asked to elaborate is the objectively correct response. Anyone who knows the rules of Yugioh will know that Ultimate Offering is absolutely cracked, and probably shouldn't have ever been printed in the first place.
i pulled injection fairy lily as a kid and instantly put it in my deck to destroy old blue eyes decks, and with like witch of the black forest was super easily tutorable
How you interpret cards when you're a kid is such a real thing. For example I used to think that ultimate offering was useless bc I thought it basically meant you were paying 500 points for your normal summon for the turn. The whole 'if the card doesn't say once per turn, you can use it infinitely' was completely lost on me as a kid. I always assumed all effects were once per turn.
1:03:10 I think the reason why he isn't picking up on this is because there may not be an equivalent. I played Magic the Gathering, so I immediately saw how it'd be used to guarantee your combo turn resolved smoothly. It turns off interaction, and at least in Hearthstone, my understanding is that you don't really need to worry about opponent actions on your turn aside from secrets.
The fact there kinda is no trap card equivalent in Hearthstone (secrets don't count, shut up) really limits his perspective on how powerful it is to disable your opponent from using them. The closest equivalent Hearthstone has to Cold Wave is Loatheb
1:05:45 The way Rarran said "This isn't once per..." with that gasp in his voice and immediately knew Ultimate Offering was broken was hilarious. Truly, he has begun to understand Yu-Gi-Oh.
Ironically: Cold Wave's closest comparison in Hearthstone in terms of "feel" would probably be on-release Yogg, in that it's the perfect combination of both powerful and exasperating to play against. Cold Wave comes down; the opponent sighs because there goes half their game plan. Yogg comes down; opponent sighs because there goes all the work they did to set up the board state.
Ahh yes, the good old days. I used to play Injection Fairy Lily and pay 6.000 LP to one-shot my friends because the card doesn't specifically say the effect can't be used multiple times per damage step 😅 Well, at least I figured out that the card was good even though I was a child. I take the W
@@RunicSigils does it say so on the card at 29:00 ? No, it doesn't. And that's the version of the card I had as a kid, so I had no idea. The text was changed in later prints to include "once per battle".
@@SlayXc2 it says "It can only be activated during the damage step when this card battles." The card only battles once per attack, so it can only be activated once per attack. By your logic, mirror force would destroy the attack position monsters for the rest of the duel because it doesn't specify when the effect ends, just "destroy all attack position monsters your opponent controls".
As far as monsters that remove anything in battle for a cost, Injection Fairy Lily was fighting for a spot with D.D. Warrior Lady, which didnt cost as much LP(it could even be 0 if you set it) was even more tutorable and played better against Defense Position monsters. Of course Fairy Lily is better going face and works thrice, but at that point you look for her if youre really aggressive and not for the removal aspect.
There are a few problems with fairy lily that likely contributed to it not seeing play. One that was already slightly touched on in the video is that it really sucks to draw if you are already loosing. In almost any competitive game you would rather have cards that help you when you are in a loosing position, rather than ones that help you when you were already winning. But probably even more important is that if your opponent summons a fairy lily you can just set a 500+ DEF monster. If your opponent attacks you they loose a lot of lifepoints, and they can only a few times. You on the other hand are safe, and once your opponent overpays they are stuck with a low attack monster on their field for you to attack over, unless they have an easy way to tribute it on hand.
The factor that holds Lily back from seeing play (which is a context thing for this video) is that she isn’t a Light or Dark monster. If she was I think she’d be a staple.
This is super nostalgic, reminding me of stuff like: "Smashing Ground that" "On my Vampire Lord? You fool!" "Summon Kycoo." "..." Or like "Attack with Lily" "Ok." "Response?" "No." "Damage step?" "Ok." "Pump?" "Sure. Flip dimension wall."
27:49 it's wild to think about this. Just like solemn too, i remembwr clearly never putting either in because of exactly that thought lmao "But what if they summon blue eyes and i onlt have 4000?!"
@raymondstrayer1699 No, they've talked about each collaboration they've done in other videos. They always come out two at a time as well because they record them in one session.
I love how he said about not having much non destruction removal while showing a Print of Vampire Lord from the Zombie Madness structure deck which came with 3 Compulsory Evacuation Device...i mean yeah one card but like still funny.
Compulse was a slept on card for the longest time. I remember that for a brief instance of time it was respected (limiting it to 1), but later back at 3. There's a saying amongst all those I played Yugioh with, "Compulse wins games." Hits face-ups, hits face-downs, totally destroys the tempo for someone who summons from the extra deck (but not all), and sometimes you throw them off by targeting your own monster in response to a board-wipe.
Ah, but that structure deck is also one of the best at cheating out tribute monsters (for the time) with call of the mummy, pyramid turtule and book of life. So it makes the loss of a tribute monster a lot less notable in general. Especially with call of the mummy, it just comes right back (if there are no other monsters on board).
@@SackofDooDoo Compulse is a card that I feel has aged like fine wine, any time you pull it out, it puts in work, and frankly it puts in MORE work as the game evolves, because the pace of the game has changed such that bouncing a pivotal resource or boss monster is tempo shattering rather than merely stuttering, like if you bounced a normal summon back in the day, it'd be back soon, even bouncing a Tribute was usually just a nuisance, even if a painful one, but knocking a nasty Synchro out, or just throwing a card thats already used up important effects back, backbreaking, devastating, even if they can replay it I love this card
I had a friend that played Injection Lily when it came out, and it was a terror to most of the people at our locals, mainly because it was hard to deal with and so people would switch to defense and hope they drew removal and then get run over as he just kept building up his board. Until I realized that it was often better to just attack into the Lily and force him to either pay the life points to take out something one of his other monsters could kill, or loose his Lily. With only 3 uses it was actually surprisingly easy to rob most of her value. Recruiters in general just wrecked Lily. Most recruiters are 1400 so if you crash them into lily and they use the effect you both loose 2000 lp and you summon another recruiter and repeat until they run out of lp and then your last search attacks over lily leaving them with ~1000 life points. You're legit just better off letting a recruiter walk over lily than using her effect to kill it.
37:19 : You're right, Tea, I lost control. At the end of the day, this is just a game. It doesn't matter if I win, lose or . . . DORO - MONSTA CARDO !!!
There was a whole format named after Vampire Lord. He was crazy there for a bit. It's just that Invasion of Chaos was so bananas/head-and-shoulders better than everything before. 2 things in IOC made it irrelevant: Ryu-kokki (sp?) A 24/20 that can be summoned off of Pyramid Purtle instead, which... while not recursive, could crash into Jinzo, the premiere one tribute monster at the time. Chaos Sorcerer being able to banish, and being at common, meant that most people suddenly had an affordable out to Vampire Lord. But for a few months there, it really shined.
Ryu was never used as much because he could just be killed with Smashing ground even post ban list while Vlord laughed at that and kept beating up your 1900 4 stars. Chaos killed EVERYTHING so that really wasent a big deal. What truely killed VLord was Cyber Dragon being even easier to get out and running over it. Iused to run zombie back in the day and it was always like a 2nd best deck to whatever was top
For Vampire Lord, his hayday in the light was extremely brief but not due to tribute monsters (at least not at first.) He was released in the 9th set, Dark Crisis as Cimo confirmed. Unfortunately for it though, Invasion of Chaos released only months later, heralding in one of the darkest times in early yugioh. Players not only had easily summoned commons that could beat over vampire lord (Chaos sorcerer being a fantastic example), but cards that cold just banish it (again chaos lord as an example, but also Black Luster Soldier), and also the release of playground powerhouse Berserk Gorilla, who could always threaten a trade. While the chaos cards were banned over the next few years, Soul Exchange Monarchs were already huge. Despite this, Vampire Lord spent about the first 10 years of it's life at 1 per deck, and nobody questioned it. Reckless Greed was actually restricted for chain burn, not Exodia, and Chain Burn was a deck that didn't just see play, it saw a LOT of play. It was the same deck that got Chain Strike Limited to 1 for a while. Lily wouldn't be in those burn decks. She was banned in the original Yugioh OCG banlist, and among the first times to come off it. Brain Control was indeed very played in Edison Format, but comically, a large part of why it didn't see play in early yugioh was actually Enemy Controller. Enemy Controller not only could serve a lot of use for what Brain Control could (Goats could be used in a lot of early yugioh to pay the cost sure come shove) and could even be used like Rarran though to grab a monster after swinging to take another monster and swing with it. Enemy Controller could also serve as a perfectly valid combat blank. Spirits was nerfed both in that both players need 15 now, and has a once per DUEL restriction on it. Also worth nothing, Makyura, the monster who enabled the trap in first turn shinanigans, was banned less than a month after it came out, and and partly due to the exchange of spirit deck. A fun trivia bit of context for me: My only Shonen Jump feature match, I lost the match to a Dark Magician of Chaos grabbing back a Heavy Storm to clear my solitaire style graveyard. The only other 2 tribute monster of old yugioh to really get the level of play Dark Magician of Chaos is Light and Darkness Dragon, and we know what happened to him. Ultimate Offering went down exactly as Cimo called it, but there was a brief time Ultimate Offering's battle phase effect saw a TINY bit of use, and that was during the second hayday of Monarchs. But yeah, it was never banned really for itself, it was always adjusted for the heckery around it.
Reckless greed definitely came back to prominence during mermail formats, it was ran at multiples to go for an explosive turn I remember when the tech was first found everyone going crazy over 3 upstart goblin and 3 reckless
Breaker is also one of my favorites. When MFC was new, and I mean "just came out a few days ago" new, my friend bought me a bunch of booster packs for my birthday. Two of them were MFC packs. I opened the MFC packs last. First pack, I got a Breaker, we all freaked out cause it was an Ultra Rare and we immediately saw how good he was even though we were like 13-14 years old. I opened the second pack. It was a SECOND Breaker. I ended up trading the second one to the friend that bought the packs that same day, we both still have them.
Something similar to Ultimate offering is actually was released in HS in the most recent expansion: that Warrior Sandwich card. You basically summon everything in your hand with some setup. And it also have the same problem as Offering, it's not the fastest way to spam monsters in modern meta
The main problem with lily is if you aren't doing damage with her, you are sacking A LOT of life points using her. While I might be an off-meta kind of guy, I love using burn decks so essentially you would just be killing yourself faster for me as well. This doesn't mean that it's a bad card, it's actually a VERY good card, but it also has a lot of drawbacks that comes with it making it situational and as Cimo said, every single card in your deck NEEDED to be good at just about all times, not be situationally good.
It would be fun if cimooo got tested by the guest on this series on the card game they play Just because cimooo ever in the hot seat, it would be fun to see him work things out
removal spells rarely leave a body behind, are rarely searchable, and arent reuseable. the better comparison are cards like dd warrior lady. but even those are rarely reuseable or much harder to search.
@@codyhanson1344 I mainly meant that 2000 attack thing that needs 1k life to attack. But I guess rota covers a bit. Still nothing compared to sangan giant rat and witch
@@mauer1 D.D warrior lady could also be searched by sangan, and shining angel, and exiled force could also be searched by sangan rat, and witch. Both can be summoned by rota whereas fairy could not, and rota is the best search of them all
i would rather play something like man eater bug/old vindictive magician, fissure, tribute to the doom etc, less of a risk after paying that 2000 lifepoints, it dropping back down to 400, then you either have to repay it when you can attack and reactivate it, or rely on your lps being high enough/your opponent not having enough monster and lps of their own to just mop the floor with your IFL, not to mention the cost it would have against your LPS pay 2000 + whatever damager their second monster does to your IFL, and if they happen to get a third monster on field the damage would be even greater. So yea... no thanks on the injection fairy lily. It looks good on paper/has a super niche nice effect, but yea as stated a lot of draw backs to having it in one's deck, at least in my opinion.
I love playing spellcasters on old school formats and part of the beauty of it is refueling Breaker's counter or just using the Magical Citadel for the cost, so in dedicated decks he can remove multiple spell/traps on the same turn. Breaker is such a PEAK card design, this guy is the coolest.
Oh boy, seeing all those cards makes me feel really nostalgic. Used to play the physical card game back when the Yugi and Kaiba decks got released in Europe. Had the best time trading and dueling with friends after school.
Exchange of the Spirits was actually used in the way Rarran described during the Tearlaments format. Since the Tearlaments decks played Ishizu cards, some decks would also play Exchange of the Spirits and expect to mill it and get those boosts. But sometimes they just happen to open with Exchange of the Spirits, so what they would do is set it and play it as a graveyard disruption. Since they often find themselves in mirror matches, if their opponent activate a whole bunch of Tearlament effects on the same chain, Exchange of the Spirits could potentially negate everything the opponent is trying to do.
For cold wave you have to remember, almost every deck in games 2/3 going second only can play because of some combination of forbidden droplet,DRNM,Raigeki, Lightning Storm, HFD or Evenly matched. Some decks could absolutely combo off without using spells after activating this (especially if they tailored their deck to it) and then use this as a side card going first to just stop any interaction from the opponent.
It took me a few video's to get why I love this so much (I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh or Hearthstone at all), but I think it's mostly because the chemistry between these two reminds me of Sizz and Rizzo from Rocket League xD
Something to note about reckless greed: it actually did see play in non-gimick decks eventually but those decks where still trap centric decks that had an alternative advantage engine to tutor their pieces but wanted card draw to see their non-searchable traps (Altergeist and Qli for example).
A major deck that shows how good Cold Wave was is X-Sabers, essentially it was I'm going to make a big board, pop your backrows, and discard cards from your hand while drawing 2-4 cards.
This! X-Sabers had Hyunlei, who was a huge abuser of backrow removal since you could easily just cold wave and destroy their backrow On top of that, Faultroll made Gottoms so easily accessible that created a very consistent way of abusing Cold Wave while destroying the opponent’s hand size
It's fun, when you get to exchange of the spirit, because I can see one very obvious way that you can use this card that may or may not have been out during the card's release.
@11:50, the D.D. cards, like D.D. Warrior lady, 1500 attack, can exile any monster that enters in combat with her. You'd take 500, but would be able to exile the vampire.
Rarran, I hope you read this about Cold Wave- So there are ways to summon strong monsters without the use of spells or traps. He pointed out Judgment Dragon briefly but didn’t explain the summoning condition or stats to you. He put a picture of the card up in the video, however, so I would go and read it. Lightsworn is a deck archetype which revolves around their effects to mill your own deck. Some of them have effects which you can activate immediately and mill some, other cards have effects where you mill cards during the end phase. Getting four Lightsworn with different names was easy. There is also something like Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning which is a 3000 atk monster with some strong effects that only requires you to banish one light and one dark monster from your GY to summon. Also extremely easy to pull off, and could just instantly win you the game with Cold Wave. The card can also be used on your first turn to basically just stop your opponent’s deck if they were a backrow deck that plays trap cards to stop you. Imagine you’re playing a deck that has mostly traps in it, and you can’t even play the game until your opponent gets to take two free turns. Lastly, there’s backrow destruction effects on monsters (generally premium) but take the ole Reckless Greed discussion from earlier. If you try to destroy your opponent’s set Reckless Greed, they will just activate it first and your card will be useless. Cold Wave stops them from being able to activate their cards in response to your monster’s destruction effects. There are cards in the old days that you would set specifically as bait for your opponent to target with a destruction effect only for you to activate the card and still gain the effect anyway. Cold Wave just says no to that at all. The card is mostly banned because it limits interactions and basically locks your opponent out of their entire turn while you can build your deck in such a way that locking yourself out of spells and traps isn’t that bad.
The problem with noz the 12 second dragon was less that it went against the nature of hearthstone or whatever was said, but more of it wasn’t programmed properly. You could extend your turn when running out of time by playing it, activating the timer thus getting 12 seconds to play then kill it to get even more time, not to mention before they sped up some animations you could just kill opponents turns by throwing your hand out. Eventually it got fixed then put away for a more consistent version that doesn’t get played for deck construction reasons.
Cold Wave is definitely a lot weaker when monster effects aren’t so dominating. Also, it seems like it’s most commonly used in decks that can pop the backrow later. Glads can use gyzarus, lightsworn use JD, plants use black rose via Debris dragon, and synchro cat decks pop the backrow with arcanite magician.
One thing about deck sizes at the time. There was no limit. There was a forty card minimum but you would consistantly play against larger and less efficiant decks.
Re: injection Fairy lily. It was actually VERY common to see in decks (at least in my area) in the early GX era. Many people liked to blind second, and their first turn was usually 1. RoTA for Marauding Capitan or Exiled Force 2. Special Cyber Dragon 3. Normal Marauding Capitan ->Special Exiled Force 4. Activate Last Will 5. Activate Exiled Force to pop their (usually) single monster ->Last Will Summon Injection Fairy Lily 6. Swing for a relatively crippling 6700 damage. I'd say like 70% of the locals in my county had turns similar to that one within 3 turns at the time
With Injection Fairy Lily back when it was relatively new, in my playground Yu-Gi-Oh, it was instantly put to use by everyone at school, as they had no issues with paying huge amount of life points. This was due to my oppressive aggro/beat down deck at the time, using Jirai Gumo and Dark Elf, and totally not afraid of attacking a face down with a Jirai Gumo with starting life points to immediately start dominating board presence that barely anyone could recover from. With this, everyone was already firmly with the mindset of "Only the last life point matters.", and laughing at cards that only gains life or is the main effect, so early in the game's life. The library went celebration one time, when someone beat the deck, when I self-burned so much from losing all coin flips and Dark Elf attacks, that a simple Ookazi being the only "attack" my opponent landed on me, of all things, just outright killing me. Was so hilarious, had to join in with everyone on it. Injectily Fairy Lily is my favourite card in the whole game, as it literally embodies my favourite past time playstyle and is a spellcaster for some reason, but so disappointed by her retrain.
I was playing local games at Hastings when I first saw fairy Lilly being played. I immediately found a way to not only trade for that one but another a different player had in their binder. I immediately built a deck around bringing out fairy Lilly and buffing her base attack with axe of despair and others to deal even more damage and became unbeatable for a short time lol
(im not a yugioh player) Rarran was having trouble with Cold wave, and the first thing that came to mind in Hearthstone was Loatheb, a card that made spells basically uplayable for a turn (they cost 5 more in a max 10 mana system, making removal basically unplayable for that turn), and saw play in every deck in the meta. Now add some faster combo potential as Yugioh has, and you dont have to play Loatheb when you expect that class' removal, you can just play it to ensure a win because you dont have to build a board as slow as HS does.
something not mentioned regarding injection fairy lily is that very early on, it was often understood even at tournaments that if you activated injection fairy lily, you could do it as many times in the same turn that you had life for so if you blew 6000 life you could attack for 9400 on turn 1 with it but there was a very quick errata stating the ability could only be used once a turn.
The reason injection wasn’t played much is because most of the time your opponent could crash into it with a level 4 and get ahead on the life point grind until you were out of life points and vulnerable
Injection Fairy Lily was a good pressure card, but she's a strictly worse Exiled Force (in most decks at least), and a worse D.D. Warrior Lady (and Lady only got better over time). Exiled Force was easier to search (RotA) and it would destroy monsters by effect, rather than battle. This takes care of problematic monsters (Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon which are battle-immune, recruiters like Mystic Tomato/Giant Rat, and FLIP effect monsters) and also dodges battle-traps like Mirror Force and Sakuretsu Armor. Also, back then we had ignition effect priority which means Exiled Force was almost impossible to interrupt. Plus, it didn't cost LP to play (burn decks were very popular back then). Fairy Lily was still played, but mainly as a variation of Exile Force as both cards were limited at the time. The main reason Lily was banned and limited was because Konami was worried she'd speed up the games too much considering she almost reads "Pay 2000 LP, deal 3400 dmg". Back then Konami didn't want games to end in the first 3 turns (funny, huh), so they waited until more battle-stopping/removal cards were printed before removing her from the banlist.
Lily was better than Exiled Force in many many ways, because she would not only stay on the board after destroying a monster, but if they had no monsters and didn't answer her, she could swing for 3400, which was a huge deal. The main and almost only reason why Exiled Force was used at all was because priority still existed back then, so it was literally impossible to prevent Exiled Force from going off without a counter trap. Nothing else could respond to it because it could tribute itself before the opponent could even play trap hole.
@@Sinzari I mean, I disagree. She's only better as an early game beatstick and nothing more. Sure, priority was what made Exiled Force amazing, but the other reasons were just as important. Searchable effect destruction was crucial since most decks played Spirit Reaper, battle recruiters and/or FLIP monsters which Lily doesn't trade into as well. Yes, swinging for 3400 mattered, but it was much easier to counter since people always played Mirror Force and at least 1-2 Sakuretsu (Trap Hole wasn't as popular as Sakuretsu, except on playgrounds and locals), and playing a defense position monster was common enough so Lily would get easily walled off. I agree that getting to keep a 3400 monster applied a lot of early game pressure and could even win games in some cases. But, Exiled Force was simply a more consistent answer to a wider variety of boards. And it works much better by itself, whereas Lily often requires additional cards to make her good. In a proper deck Lily is better since she's a beatstick, but in most decks Exiled Force is since it's a far superior removal card.
It's cool to hear that Breaker the Magical Warrior is your favorite. He's an awesome card! I got into the habit of calling him my "Trap Hole Finder" because playing old formats with friends, that's what he'd do. Breaker would bait out that Trap Hole every time. No one wanted to let him live past normal summon lol.
Does brain control work on Pendulum monsters? You can normal summon the majority of them before they get sent to the extra deck. So wouldn't that allow brain control to work from a Pendulum monster summoned from the extra deck?
to be fair, scapegoat was played a lot in early link era mainly in control decks since you could make a borreload with 1 card. It even ended up getting limited until the power creep ramped up
Injection Fairy Lily explanation was a little surprising to me because my card shop had some very keen-eyed card gamers and there was many people that ran it, including myself, in a wide variety of decks. It was always a pain in the ass to fight against since you knew you were probably losing something to it and the LP cost rarely mattered.
I hope you include Pot of Desires in one of these types videos, would be interesting to see how players of other card games evaluate the effect and costs.
"ever spent time on the banlist" is much better imo than currently. makes more sense for this kind of format
Agreed. Some cards were broken on release but became unplayable later, either because of power creep or because their combo pieces got banned, and some only became broken when new cards got added to the game.
What would also be fun would be to show cards, and ask them to evaluate the effect and determine if the card got an errata or not, and maybe how it was changed for bonus points.
Not for Rarran. He would then have to know when the card came out and try and figure out what the power level of each format is.
The way it is now he’s only guessing for one format which is nice because he clearly doesn’t have historical yugioh knowledge at all.
Yeah, way better. LSV basically aced his run but that rule lost him points in the technical sense.
thanks for saving me an hour. I'm tired of these cimo videos where the guest gets the answer right but cimo goes "HAHA YOU WREE WRONG BECAUSE I DECIDED TO MAKE THE RULES BULLSHIT 🙃"
nah its completly pointless cause it results in just guessing
"Does it say you can't?" is probably the best question you can make to an outsider of Yu-Gi-Oh! trying to evaluate cards.
One thing to note about Injection Fairy Lily is that she was always a Secret or Ultra Rare or some promotion until 2011.
So many children never had access to her, severely limiting her presence. I believe there are a lot of people that would have played her, if they had her.
I know kid me would not have, i was like give up 3000 life points gosh then i could die to burn sooner lol
I remember having 1 copy as a kid and it was like the number 1 playground bully card. That card most people don't have but those that do just have such an insane advantage. The other one I remember was Goblin Attack Force.
@@Flamewolf14 its 2000 life to get 3000 atk, kid me would have done that every day to beat blue eyes
1000000% this. We used to test for IRL tournaments using YVD ( Yugioh Virtual Desktop ) and SO MANY competitive decks/champs were using her. She slotted into so many decks.
im not through with the video yet but he also forgot to mention when they were talking about reckless greed and rarran asked if it over time saw more play that it infact did. reckless greed always saw play in burn decks, it was also played in some decks that really wanted to fish for their combos deeper and it had a big hype when patrick hoban had his peak and made the ygo community realize why consistency is really important and how you could help your decks with it. upstart goblin especially but also reckless greed then saw quite some play in mermails, dragon rulers ( after they got hit first time ) and other decks.
I really want to see Cimo and Rarran play a “progression”-like series so we can see Rarran try to make his own deck in real time and slowly learn the game
That would go *sooo* hard.
Do itttt
That'd be fun to see, but will require a lot of commitment for Rarran since he isn't much of a Yugituber. Maybe every other week.
@@christiangivens8788 lets make it funnier, it is a Yugioh X Hearthstone Progression Series Mix-Up.
One week they play Yugioh, the other they play Hearthstone. If you win in Yugioh, you get a price for Hearthstone and vice versa to give the players a chance to win in the game they arent proficient at
Agreed, but Rarran has already played masterduel somewhat recently and got up to diamond with swordsoul.
Injection fairy lily was banned for one format, the very first tcg format to ever ban cards included ifl as one of the 4 banned cards. It was limited on the next list a couple months later
The banned cards on this banlist were only ever in effect for the OCG. The first banlist that banned cards for the TCG was the one after that. So the Lily ban on that list never actually affected the TCG in any way.
So I did some research because I thought it was banned at one point. Turns out the o ly time this card was banned that affected TCG players was for the 2004 world champion tournament. It was banned for that on a special ban list just for worlds
@@IyoMaestroat the time the TCG and ocg shared a ban list despite different release schedules. There were cards that were released banned in the TCG later, which is why the lists were separated
Nope. Injection Fairy Lily released as Unlimited in the TCG in 2003 when it had been Limited in the OCG since 2002.
World's ban list works this way: All cards are set to their lowest allowed amount. So if it's unlimited in Japan and Forbidden in Brazil, the card if Forbidden at Worlds.
"That seems fucked..." has to be the best and most accurate description of Cold Wave, i have ever heard
I mean, if you ever took Cold Wave when it was legal that was... a lot...
Used it in old games, my friends hated this monstrosity.
Breaker is basically the "2 mana 3/2 + good effect" of Yu-Gi-Oh.
Something Rarran especially missed about Vampire Lord is that the equivalent effect in Hearthstone wouldn't be "has to be destroyed by an attack" it's "has to be destroyed by a minion with equal or higher attack" with a statline of like 6/4.
I mean, he's honestly just completely wrong, because recursive cards have always been really strong if they weren't RIDICULOUSLY understatted. Some examples being Cairne (not infinitely recursive, but the first semi-recursive effect), Rat King, Rattlegore, and Korrak to name a few off the top of my head.
That 3/5 red troll that MUST be honorably killed to actually die is the closest example
Not really a threat but pretty annoying, kinda like vampire lord
@@Sinzari To be fair, most of those replaced themselves on the board immediately after being destroyed rather than with a delay (and the only one that didn't, Rat King, saw much less play than the rest)
I think an element that is severely under-clarified is just how combat works, in Hearthstone, unless a minion has Taunt, you don't HAVE to run over the guy, you can just soak him or Taunt him yourself and just go face, you don't get to do that in YGO, you have to battle the enemy board first
And that does a lot towards how recursive mid-scale bodies are valued
48:00 considering Kaiba played essentially a deck destruction game in that duel it was double funny. His shock when Ishizu flips exchange after he played both deck destruction virus, getting rid of all her strongest monsters, and magic virus canon, getting rid of 10 of her spell cards, is just hilarious.
His reaction in YGOTAS is even funnier.
the turns definitely tabled back then
@@AgusSkywalker FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
That's what he gets for not believing in Egyptian fairy tales after all the shit he's seen lol.
@@Teorenz000 Mokuba, she's crippled my deck! What do I do now?
Explaining cold wave by using lotheb from hearthstone would really help make sense of it considering at the time it was released making spells cost 5 more basically shut off almost all removal and you could swing to win the next turn
thats a good comparison.
but it lacks in some parts, like that the body of lotheb itself helps to swing board presence, and that you would waste most of your turn yourself on it.
while in yugioh cold wave can also be used to mass swing gamestates with something like judgment dragon.
@@mauer1 Yeah cold wave is magnitudes better for other reasons, they just have the same theme of like, shutting off a large percentage of the cards that are going to be in your opponents deck to answer your aggression. Since yugioh actually has interaction during your opponents turn, unlike hearthstone, there will most likely never be a card quite like cold wave...
Never forget when Fairy Lily unironically saw play in like 2014 to out Towers.
I mean, some people were playing fricking Mushroom man during kash format.
@@dudono1744 that was only to make sure the opponent had an unuseable monster.
well the rank 4 was really tough to get for most if it was even possible.
EU had to do thag due to them not having having Shonen Jump promos. Diamond Crab King the XYZ is what the Americans had.
The worst thing about Injection Fairy as a kid was none of the people I played against understood the damage step. There would be arguments over that card all the time. And the original printing didn't say once per battle which was rough.
There's no worse feeling than trying to explain to your opponent in a civilized manner that they got it all mistaken. Wrong card game but when I played Duel Masters which is closest to MTG in design except all cards can be played as basic lands, I only play it with 1 other guy from my school and he was just not having it when I explained that the number on the top left (which would be their respective mana costs) actually mean something, and you can't attack using monsters you've already played as lands unless you also pay for its mana cost. I'm still salty about that shit 20 years later
@@jamesaditya5254 What ever happened to Duel Masters. I plated that for a bit as a kid and seem to remember it being a decent card game. Though I was also a YGO kid so never got into it as already spent all my pocket money on yugioh packs.
@@Noobie2k7 Hasbro discontinued set releases in 2006 for West because they always treated it like the Redheaded Step brother of MtG while The Japanese side of Hasbro, Takara
Tomy, treated it with actual fucking care and it is 5th or so best OCG in Japan and still get regular box sets and the like
@@dannyharrell4818 The least they could do is keep making vidya for it.
And I don't mean a gacha, just actual games. Still play the GBA ones from time to time.
I remember a kid back then trying to use this for ending the game in a draw
He would consider the life point reduction and battle damage happened simultenously
He did this just because he think it was hilarious, the only kid who could make a draw happen, then another kid got ring of destruction
39:19 "people pick bad cards as their favorite all the time" Fox Fire my beloved
Rarran, I am pretty sure Vampire Lord's effect would be way better in Heartstone. A premium like 5 mana 5/6 that HAS to be destroyed by battle would be really obnoxious especially if it is hiding behind a taunt.
Korak saw play as a 4 mana 3/5 that had to be "honorably killed" (die by exact damage which did include spells at least) or it came back.
Korak is exactly who I was thinking of when they were talking about this.
20:38 the real dream scenario and i saw it happen irl was first player set 4 in the back row and pass, second player activates heavy storm, the first player chains 3 reckless greed and a scapegoat
@40:08 Don't forget Breaker's one and only in duel anime appearance with Atem using it to wail on Weevil during the Waking the Dragons arc.
DRAW! MONSTA CARDU!
Yeah with "beserker's soul" which makes him 1600 ATK so no one replicate the anime.
Rarran's visceral reaction to Ultimate Offering was so funny
its druid ptsd, its basically old anub'rekhan
@@nuhrii3449I can see Cino's argument for Ultimate Offering being too slow but on the other hand if it lasts long enough to give you a 2nd Normal Summon that would be crazy for combo Decks that start with just 1 Normal Summon.
@@leebulger7112 You can also just play on your opponent's battle phase like it's nothing if your deck has the capability to generate advantage in this way
@@stardust9470 That's even better.
Fairy lily was very good. It was a very rare card, so almost no one owned one. Also it had negative synergy with a lot of decks, because you really wanted to normal summon specific things. The fact that she saw use despite not advancing any specific win con shows how powerful she was.
Inspired by a suggestion from the last Rarran vid; I'd love to see you take either the next or last Ban List update, let Rarran see all the cards that changed positions, and see if he can figure out which cards moved to where. :)
"this isnt once per turn 😮" THAT MADE ME LAUGH
Didnt Reckless Greed see a lot of play in 2017 Paleos? I also remember Volcanics and Spellbooks sometimes utilized that card. It actually did age well, just not to a staple level.
I love Rarran's reaction to realizing cards aren't once per turn
The best part is Ultimate Offering. Rarran's exasperated, "What do you want me to say?" when asked to elaborate is the objectively correct response. Anyone who knows the rules of Yugioh will know that Ultimate Offering is absolutely cracked, and probably shouldn't have ever been printed in the first place.
i pulled injection fairy lily as a kid and instantly put it in my deck to destroy old blue eyes decks, and with like witch of the black forest was super easily tutorable
How you interpret cards when you're a kid is such a real thing. For example I used to think that ultimate offering was useless bc I thought it basically meant you were paying 500 points for your normal summon for the turn. The whole 'if the card doesn't say once per turn, you can use it infinitely' was completely lost on me as a kid. I always assumed all effects were once per turn.
Best part of these videos is rarran asking a question and alex saying "does this say you cant?"
Rarren really is his worst enemy when it comes to this. He always talks himself out of the correct answer lmao
1:03:10 I think the reason why he isn't picking up on this is because there may not be an equivalent. I played Magic the Gathering, so I immediately saw how it'd be used to guarantee your combo turn resolved smoothly. It turns off interaction, and at least in Hearthstone, my understanding is that you don't really need to worry about opponent actions on your turn aside from secrets.
The fact there kinda is no trap card equivalent in Hearthstone (secrets don't count, shut up) really limits his perspective on how powerful it is to disable your opponent from using them. The closest equivalent Hearthstone has to Cold Wave is Loatheb
1:05:45 The way Rarran said "This isn't once per..." with that gasp in his voice and immediately knew Ultimate Offering was broken was hilarious. Truly, he has begun to understand Yu-Gi-Oh.
“Injection fairy lily, you have to keep paying to pump her.”
Oh boy do I know all about that…
The reason lily wasnt played was because of all the swarmers that were played back then who could suicide bomb into her one after another.
Ironically: Cold Wave's closest comparison in Hearthstone in terms of "feel" would probably be on-release Yogg, in that it's the perfect combination of both powerful and exasperating to play against.
Cold Wave comes down; the opponent sighs because there goes half their game plan.
Yogg comes down; opponent sighs because there goes all the work they did to set up the board state.
lotheb was mentioned in comments aswell.
Ahh yes, the good old days. I used to play Injection Fairy Lily and pay 6.000 LP to one-shot my friends because the card doesn't specifically say the effect can't be used multiple times per damage step 😅 Well, at least I figured out that the card was good even though I was a child. I take the W
It was always once per battle, so you were cheating.
You remind me of my friend who used to use the same scrap iron scarecrow 5 times in the same turn
@@RunicSigils does it say so on the card at 29:00 ? No, it doesn't. And that's the version of the card I had as a kid, so I had no idea. The text was changed in later prints to include "once per battle".
@@SlayXc2 it says "It can only be activated during the damage step when this card battles."
The card only battles once per attack, so it can only be activated once per attack.
By your logic, mirror force would destroy the attack position monsters for the rest of the duel because it doesn't specify when the effect ends, just "destroy all attack position monsters your opponent controls".
@@sasir2013 Jesus Christ, chill. It was an easy mistake to make.
As far as monsters that remove anything in battle for a cost, Injection Fairy Lily was fighting for a spot with D.D. Warrior Lady, which didnt cost as much LP(it could even be 0 if you set it) was even more tutorable and played better against Defense Position monsters.
Of course Fairy Lily is better going face and works thrice, but at that point you look for her if youre really aggressive and not for the removal aspect.
Great video! Love both of you guys. Looking forward to more collabs.
As a child, i always thought Breaker's blue face was a big eye too, but no that's definitely just his mouth and chin!
There are a few problems with fairy lily that likely contributed to it not seeing play. One that was already slightly touched on in the video is that it really sucks to draw if you are already loosing. In almost any competitive game you would rather have cards that help you when you are in a loosing position, rather than ones that help you when you were already winning.
But probably even more important is that if your opponent summons a fairy lily you can just set a 500+ DEF monster. If your opponent attacks you they loose a lot of lifepoints, and they can only a few times. You on the other hand are safe, and once your opponent overpays they are stuck with a low attack monster on their field for you to attack over, unless they have an easy way to tribute it on hand.
The factor that holds Lily back from seeing play (which is a context thing for this video) is that she isn’t a Light or Dark monster. If she was I think she’d be a staple.
This is super nostalgic, reminding me of stuff like:
"Smashing Ground that"
"On my Vampire Lord? You fool!"
"Summon Kycoo."
"..."
Or like "Attack with Lily"
"Ok."
"Response?"
"No."
"Damage step?"
"Ok."
"Pump?"
"Sure. Flip dimension wall."
27:49 it's wild to think about this. Just like solemn too, i remembwr clearly never putting either in because of exactly that thought lmao
"But what if they summon blue eyes and i onlt have 4000?!"
Didn't Rarran love Breaker in his Master Duel Arena video? Or am I misremembering?
he barely remembers sword soul,
i don't think he remembers the arena video, which is fine, he played Yu-Gi-Oh like less than 10 times in his life
This video may have been recorded before Rarran got to play it, and Cimo just now posted this video.
cimo said breaker was his fav card. rarran drafted it and said it was cool but it was cimo who said he loved it
Yes, I think about six months ago. But Rarran has like 5 games he's juggling and often forgets details from months prior.
@raymondstrayer1699 No, they've talked about each collaboration they've done in other videos. They always come out two at a time as well because they record them in one session.
I love how he said about not having much non destruction removal while showing a Print of Vampire Lord from the Zombie Madness structure deck which came with 3 Compulsory Evacuation Device...i mean yeah one card but like still funny.
Compulse was a slept on card for the longest time. I remember that for a brief instance of time it was respected (limiting it to 1), but later back at 3. There's a saying amongst all those I played Yugioh with, "Compulse wins games."
Hits face-ups, hits face-downs, totally destroys the tempo for someone who summons from the extra deck (but not all), and sometimes you throw them off by targeting your own monster in response to a board-wipe.
Ah, but that structure deck is also one of the best at cheating out tribute monsters (for the time) with call of the mummy, pyramid turtule and book of life. So it makes the loss of a tribute monster a lot less notable in general. Especially with call of the mummy, it just comes right back (if there are no other monsters on board).
@@justanoman6497 I didn't clarify, but I just meant the use of compulse in general, not against the Zombie deck specifically.
@@SackofDooDoo Compulse is a card that I feel has aged like fine wine, any time you pull it out, it puts in work, and frankly it puts in MORE work as the game evolves, because the pace of the game has changed such that bouncing a pivotal resource or boss monster is tempo shattering rather than merely stuttering, like if you bounced a normal summon back in the day, it'd be back soon, even bouncing a Tribute was usually just a nuisance, even if a painful one, but knocking a nasty Synchro out, or just throwing a card thats already used up important effects back, backbreaking, devastating, even if they can replay it
I love this card
@@syrelian 100% agree, Syrelian. I still run it in some modern decks for its incredible utility.
I had a friend that played Injection Lily when it came out, and it was a terror to most of the people at our locals, mainly because it was hard to deal with and so people would switch to defense and hope they drew removal and then get run over as he just kept building up his board. Until I realized that it was often better to just attack into the Lily and force him to either pay the life points to take out something one of his other monsters could kill, or loose his Lily. With only 3 uses it was actually surprisingly easy to rob most of her value.
Recruiters in general just wrecked Lily. Most recruiters are 1400 so if you crash them into lily and they use the effect you both loose 2000 lp and you summon another recruiter and repeat until they run out of lp and then your last search attacks over lily leaving them with ~1000 life points. You're legit just better off letting a recruiter walk over lily than using her effect to kill it.
37:19 :
You're right, Tea, I lost control.
At the end of the day, this is just a game.
It doesn't matter if I win, lose or . . .
DORO - MONSTA CARDO !!!
You have no idea how much pure joy I extract from these videos with Rarran. Thank you so much.
There was a whole format named after Vampire Lord. He was crazy there for a bit. It's just that Invasion of Chaos was so bananas/head-and-shoulders better than everything before.
2 things in IOC made it irrelevant:
Ryu-kokki (sp?) A 24/20 that can be summoned off of Pyramid Purtle instead, which... while not recursive, could crash into Jinzo, the premiere one tribute monster at the time.
Chaos Sorcerer being able to banish, and being at common, meant that most people suddenly had an affordable out to Vampire Lord. But for a few months there, it really shined.
Ryu was never used as much because he could just be killed with Smashing ground even post ban list while Vlord laughed at that and kept beating up your 1900 4 stars. Chaos killed EVERYTHING so that really wasent a big deal. What truely killed VLord was Cyber Dragon being even easier to get out and running over it. Iused to run zombie back in the day and it was always like a 2nd best deck to whatever was top
Ramranch try not to glasslight himself challenege level: IMPOSSIBLE!
For Vampire Lord, his hayday in the light was extremely brief but not due to tribute monsters (at least not at first.) He was released in the 9th set, Dark Crisis as Cimo confirmed. Unfortunately for it though, Invasion of Chaos released only months later, heralding in one of the darkest times in early yugioh. Players not only had easily summoned commons that could beat over vampire lord (Chaos sorcerer being a fantastic example), but cards that cold just banish it (again chaos lord as an example, but also Black Luster Soldier), and also the release of playground powerhouse Berserk Gorilla, who could always threaten a trade. While the chaos cards were banned over the next few years, Soul Exchange Monarchs were already huge. Despite this, Vampire Lord spent about the first 10 years of it's life at 1 per deck, and nobody questioned it.
Reckless Greed was actually restricted for chain burn, not Exodia, and Chain Burn was a deck that didn't just see play, it saw a LOT of play. It was the same deck that got Chain Strike Limited to 1 for a while. Lily wouldn't be in those burn decks. She was banned in the original Yugioh OCG banlist, and among the first times to come off it.
Brain Control was indeed very played in Edison Format, but comically, a large part of why it didn't see play in early yugioh was actually Enemy Controller. Enemy Controller not only could serve a lot of use for what Brain Control could (Goats could be used in a lot of early yugioh to pay the cost sure come shove) and could even be used like Rarran though to grab a monster after swinging to take another monster and swing with it. Enemy Controller could also serve as a perfectly valid combat blank.
Spirits was nerfed both in that both players need 15 now, and has a once per DUEL restriction on it. Also worth nothing, Makyura, the monster who enabled the trap in first turn shinanigans, was banned less than a month after it came out, and and partly due to the exchange of spirit deck.
A fun trivia bit of context for me: My only Shonen Jump feature match, I lost the match to a Dark Magician of Chaos grabbing back a Heavy Storm to clear my solitaire style graveyard. The only other 2 tribute monster of old yugioh to really get the level of play Dark Magician of Chaos is Light and Darkness Dragon, and we know what happened to him.
Ultimate Offering went down exactly as Cimo called it, but there was a brief time Ultimate Offering's battle phase effect saw a TINY bit of use, and that was during the second hayday of Monarchs. But yeah, it was never banned really for itself, it was always adjusted for the heckery around it.
If I remember correctly, Vampire Lord was a nuisance to deal with exactly until Cyber Dragon was released, in which case it became unplayable
Chain burn my beloved
I can't explain how much I enjoy these videos.
Reckless greed definitely came back to prominence during mermail formats, it was ran at multiples to go for an explosive turn
I remember when the tech was first found everyone going crazy over 3 upstart goblin and 3 reckless
Breaker is also one of my favorites. When MFC was new, and I mean "just came out a few days ago" new, my friend bought me a bunch of booster packs for my birthday. Two of them were MFC packs. I opened the MFC packs last. First pack, I got a Breaker, we all freaked out cause it was an Ultra Rare and we immediately saw how good he was even though we were like 13-14 years old. I opened the second pack. It was a SECOND Breaker. I ended up trading the second one to the friend that bought the packs that same day, we both still have them.
Something similar to Ultimate offering is actually was released in HS in the most recent expansion: that Warrior Sandwich card. You basically summon everything in your hand with some setup. And it also have the same problem as Offering, it's not the fastest way to spam monsters in modern meta
"Does it say you can't?" is ingrained in my head now, LOL
These two players are the best and always make me smile when i watch their videos. Thank you for being great!
As someone who played the hell out of Yu-gi-oh from release until like 2007 this video was like mainlining nostalgia.
The main problem with lily is if you aren't doing damage with her, you are sacking A LOT of life points using her. While I might be an off-meta kind of guy, I love using burn decks so essentially you would just be killing yourself faster for me as well. This doesn't mean that it's a bad card, it's actually a VERY good card, but it also has a lot of drawbacks that comes with it making it situational and as Cimo said, every single card in your deck NEEDED to be good at just about all times, not be situationally good.
This would be much more fun with 3 options:
1. Never banned
2. Used to be banned
3. Currently banned
It would be fun if cimooo got tested by the guest on this series on the card game they play
Just because cimooo ever in the hot seat, it would be fun to see him work things out
Vampire Lord was limited on release, and didn’t go to 3 until Oct 2005. But yes, it was never banned.
Injection Fairy was great, but keep in mind for that spot you could also play a removal spell that would not cost the normal summon.
removal spells rarely leave a body behind, are rarely searchable, and arent reuseable.
the better comparison are cards like dd warrior lady. but even those are rarely reuseable or much harder to search.
@@mauer1 "much harder to search" *rota exists*
@@codyhanson1344 I mainly meant that 2000 attack thing that needs 1k life to attack. But I guess rota covers a bit. Still nothing compared to sangan giant rat and witch
@@mauer1 D.D warrior lady could also be searched by sangan, and shining angel, and exiled force could also be searched by sangan rat, and witch. Both can be summoned by rota whereas fairy could not, and rota is the best search of them all
i would rather play something like man eater bug/old vindictive magician, fissure, tribute to the doom etc, less of a risk after paying that 2000 lifepoints, it dropping back down to 400, then you either have to repay it when you can attack and reactivate it, or rely on your lps being high enough/your opponent not having enough monster and lps of their own to just mop the floor with your IFL, not to mention the cost it would have against your LPS pay 2000 + whatever damager their second monster does to your IFL, and if they happen to get a third monster on field the damage would be even greater.
So yea... no thanks on the injection fairy lily.
It looks good on paper/has a super niche nice effect, but yea as stated a lot of draw backs to having it in one's deck, at least in my opinion.
Half of these are just "The card was actually average/bad but it enabled a stupid OTK and was thus banned" which really sums up the game lol
I love playing spellcasters on old school formats and part of the beauty of it is refueling Breaker's counter or just using the Magical Citadel for the cost, so in dedicated decks he can remove multiple spell/traps on the same turn. Breaker is such a PEAK card design, this guy is the coolest.
Oh boy, seeing all those cards makes me feel really nostalgic. Used to play the physical card game back when the Yugi and Kaiba decks got released in Europe. Had the best time trading and dueling with friends after school.
"I've seen people choose bad cards as their favorite card"
Mine us Swordstalker lmao
daigusto sphreez for me, though she might be good but in a horrible archtype
21:41 this is just lying no? This card was pretty good in paleo, even hittable in that deck. It was played in draco too.
I have noticed a trend that Yi Gi Oh Players tend to be very personally subjective, although Cimoooooo isn't like that really
and in mermail around 2014 too
In the context of Goat it only showed up as space filler
It was a big deal in heretic rulers as well which was a top deck after the rulers went to 1
@@Izorist94 Yeah 3 Upstart + 3 Reckless was popularized by Hoban back then
Well cimoooooooo you got to show rah duels showing how these work with people who get these win conditions and combos off with
Exchange of the Spirits was actually used in the way Rarran described during the Tearlaments format. Since the Tearlaments decks played Ishizu cards, some decks would also play Exchange of the Spirits and expect to mill it and get those boosts. But sometimes they just happen to open with Exchange of the Spirits, so what they would do is set it and play it as a graveyard disruption. Since they often find themselves in mirror matches, if their opponent activate a whole bunch of Tearlament effects on the same chain, Exchange of the Spirits could potentially negate everything the opponent is trying to do.
For cold wave you have to remember, almost every deck in games 2/3 going second only can play because of some combination of forbidden droplet,DRNM,Raigeki, Lightning Storm, HFD or Evenly matched.
Some decks could absolutely combo off without using spells after activating this (especially if they tailored their deck to it) and then use this as a side card going first to just stop any interaction from the opponent.
I love how Rarran takes the time to understand the cards and speak through his thought process.
It took me a few video's to get why I love this so much (I don't play Yu-Gi-Oh or Hearthstone at all), but I think it's mostly because the chemistry between these two reminds me of Sizz and Rizzo from Rocket League xD
Something to note about reckless greed: it actually did see play in non-gimick decks eventually but those decks where still trap centric decks that had an alternative advantage engine to tutor their pieces but wanted card draw to see their non-searchable traps (Altergeist and Qli for example).
A major deck that shows how good Cold Wave was is X-Sabers, essentially it was I'm going to make a big board, pop your backrows, and discard cards from your hand while drawing 2-4 cards.
This! X-Sabers had Hyunlei, who was a huge abuser of backrow removal since you could easily just cold wave and destroy their backrow
On top of that, Faultroll made Gottoms so easily accessible that created a very consistent way of abusing Cold Wave while destroying the opponent’s hand size
It's fun, when you get to exchange of the spirit, because I can see one very obvious way that you can use this card that may or may not have been out during the card's release.
@11:50, the D.D. cards, like D.D. Warrior lady, 1500 attack, can exile any monster that enters in combat with her.
You'd take 500, but would be able to exile the vampire.
Rarran making a Freudian slip within a minute, we know it’s not a double boys.
Rarran, I hope you read this about Cold Wave-
So there are ways to summon strong monsters without the use of spells or traps. He pointed out Judgment Dragon briefly but didn’t explain the summoning condition or stats to you. He put a picture of the card up in the video, however, so I would go and read it. Lightsworn is a deck archetype which revolves around their effects to mill your own deck. Some of them have effects which you can activate immediately and mill some, other cards have effects where you mill cards during the end phase. Getting four Lightsworn with different names was easy.
There is also something like Black Luster Soldier- Envoy of the Beginning which is a 3000 atk monster with some strong effects that only requires you to banish one light and one dark monster from your GY to summon. Also extremely easy to pull off, and could just instantly win you the game with Cold Wave.
The card can also be used on your first turn to basically just stop your opponent’s deck if they were a backrow deck that plays trap cards to stop you. Imagine you’re playing a deck that has mostly traps in it, and you can’t even play the game until your opponent gets to take two free turns.
Lastly, there’s backrow destruction effects on monsters (generally premium) but take the ole Reckless Greed discussion from earlier. If you try to destroy your opponent’s set Reckless Greed, they will just activate it first and your card will be useless. Cold Wave stops them from being able to activate their cards in response to your monster’s destruction effects. There are cards in the old days that you would set specifically as bait for your opponent to target with a destruction effect only for you to activate the card and still gain the effect anyway. Cold Wave just says no to that at all.
The card is mostly banned because it limits interactions and basically locks your opponent out of their entire turn while you can build your deck in such a way that locking yourself out of spells and traps isn’t that bad.
The problem with noz the 12 second dragon was less that it went against the nature of hearthstone or whatever was said, but more of it wasn’t programmed properly. You could extend your turn when running out of time by playing it, activating the timer thus getting 12 seconds to play then kill it to get even more time, not to mention before they sped up some animations you could just kill opponents turns by throwing your hand out. Eventually it got fixed then put away for a more consistent version that doesn’t get played for deck construction reasons.
Cold Wave is definitely a lot weaker when monster effects aren’t so dominating. Also, it seems like it’s most commonly used in decks that can pop the backrow later. Glads can use gyzarus, lightsworn use JD, plants use black rose via Debris dragon, and synchro cat decks pop the backrow with arcanite magician.
One thing about deck sizes at the time. There was no limit. There was a forty card minimum but you would consistantly play against larger and less efficiant decks.
Re: injection Fairy lily. It was actually VERY common to see in decks (at least in my area) in the early GX era. Many people liked to blind second, and their first turn was usually
1. RoTA for Marauding Capitan or Exiled Force
2. Special Cyber Dragon
3. Normal Marauding Capitan ->Special Exiled Force
4. Activate Last Will
5. Activate Exiled Force to pop their (usually) single monster ->Last Will Summon Injection Fairy Lily
6. Swing for a relatively crippling 6700 damage.
I'd say like 70% of the locals in my county had turns similar to that one within 3 turns at the time
We need more collabs from you two guys. This was great
With Injection Fairy Lily back when it was relatively new, in my playground Yu-Gi-Oh, it was instantly put to use by everyone at school, as they had no issues with paying huge amount of life points. This was due to my oppressive aggro/beat down deck at the time, using Jirai Gumo and Dark Elf, and totally not afraid of attacking a face down with a Jirai Gumo with starting life points to immediately start dominating board presence that barely anyone could recover from. With this, everyone was already firmly with the mindset of "Only the last life point matters.", and laughing at cards that only gains life or is the main effect, so early in the game's life.
The library went celebration one time, when someone beat the deck, when I self-burned so much from losing all coin flips and Dark Elf attacks, that a simple Ookazi being the only "attack" my opponent landed on me, of all things, just outright killing me. Was so hilarious, had to join in with everyone on it.
Injectily Fairy Lily is my favourite card in the whole game, as it literally embodies my favourite past time playstyle and is a spellcaster for some reason, but so disappointed by her retrain.
I was playing local games at Hastings when I first saw fairy Lilly being played. I immediately found a way to not only trade for that one but another a different player had in their binder. I immediately built a deck around bringing out fairy Lilly and buffing her base attack with axe of despair and others to deal even more damage and became unbeatable for a short time lol
(im not a yugioh player) Rarran was having trouble with Cold wave, and the first thing that came to mind in Hearthstone was Loatheb, a card that made spells basically uplayable for a turn (they cost 5 more in a max 10 mana system, making removal basically unplayable for that turn), and saw play in every deck in the meta.
Now add some faster combo potential as Yugioh has, and you dont have to play Loatheb when you expect that class' removal, you can just play it to ensure a win because you dont have to build a board as slow as HS does.
You should make this a podcast, love to hear those videos while driving to work
I want to see his reaction to butterfly dagger elma. It’s been banned for years and see if he notices the loop
Exchange of the spirit is the inspiration for the druid Toggwaggle mill deck.
You should show him pendulum monsters at some point
I would love to see Performapal Monkeyboard on this show.
something not mentioned regarding injection fairy lily is that very early on, it was often understood even at tournaments that if you activated injection fairy lily, you could do it as many times in the same turn that you had life for so if you blew 6000 life you could attack for 9400 on turn 1 with it but there was a very quick errata stating the ability could only be used once a turn.
I remember making a deck specifically for Vampire Lord and Vampire Lady. Fun times, I wouldn't say it was any good, but it was fun though.
The reason injection wasn’t played much is because most of the time your opponent could crash into it with a level 4 and get ahead on the life point grind until you were out of life points and vulnerable
I took an interest in hearthstone because of these videos. I love it! Keep it up! I would love to do the same but as a Digimon player.
Injection Fairy Lily was a good pressure card, but she's a strictly worse Exiled Force (in most decks at least), and a worse D.D. Warrior Lady (and Lady only got better over time).
Exiled Force was easier to search (RotA) and it would destroy monsters by effect, rather than battle. This takes care of problematic monsters (Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon which are battle-immune, recruiters like Mystic Tomato/Giant Rat, and FLIP effect monsters) and also dodges battle-traps like Mirror Force and Sakuretsu Armor. Also, back then we had ignition effect priority which means Exiled Force was almost impossible to interrupt. Plus, it didn't cost LP to play (burn decks were very popular back then). Fairy Lily was still played, but mainly as a variation of Exile Force as both cards were limited at the time.
The main reason Lily was banned and limited was because Konami was worried she'd speed up the games too much considering she almost reads "Pay 2000 LP, deal 3400 dmg". Back then Konami didn't want games to end in the first 3 turns (funny, huh), so they waited until more battle-stopping/removal cards were printed before removing her from the banlist.
Lily was better than Exiled Force in many many ways, because she would not only stay on the board after destroying a monster, but if they had no monsters and didn't answer her, she could swing for 3400, which was a huge deal.
The main and almost only reason why Exiled Force was used at all was because priority still existed back then, so it was literally impossible to prevent Exiled Force from going off without a counter trap. Nothing else could respond to it because it could tribute itself before the opponent could even play trap hole.
@@Sinzari I mean, I disagree. She's only better as an early game beatstick and nothing more.
Sure, priority was what made Exiled Force amazing, but the other reasons were just as important. Searchable effect destruction was crucial since most decks played Spirit Reaper, battle recruiters and/or FLIP monsters which Lily doesn't trade into as well.
Yes, swinging for 3400 mattered, but it was much easier to counter since people always played Mirror Force and at least 1-2 Sakuretsu (Trap Hole wasn't as popular as Sakuretsu, except on playgrounds and locals), and playing a defense position monster was common enough so Lily would get easily walled off.
I agree that getting to keep a 3400 monster applied a lot of early game pressure and could even win games in some cases. But, Exiled Force was simply a more consistent answer to a wider variety of boards. And it works much better by itself, whereas Lily often requires additional cards to make her good.
In a proper deck Lily is better since she's a beatstick, but in most decks Exiled Force is since it's a far superior removal card.
It's cool to hear that Breaker the Magical Warrior is your favorite. He's an awesome card! I got into the habit of calling him my "Trap Hole Finder" because playing old formats with friends, that's what he'd do. Breaker would bait out that Trap Hole every time. No one wanted to let him live past normal summon lol.
14:45 This was 100% at 1 when I went to my first Locals ever where I got destroyed by Manticore/Exodia OTK.
Does brain control work on Pendulum monsters? You can normal summon the majority of them before they get sent to the extra deck. So wouldn't that allow brain control to work from a Pendulum monster summoned from the extra deck?
Probably cause they are still monster that can be normal summoned
A progression series with raran could be interesting, let him see how the game evolved
to be fair, scapegoat was played a lot in early link era mainly in control decks since you could make a borreload with 1 card. It even ended up getting limited until the power creep ramped up
Injection Fairy Lily explanation was a little surprising to me because my card shop had some very keen-eyed card gamers and there was many people that ran it, including myself, in a wide variety of decks. It was always a pain in the ass to fight against since you knew you were probably losing something to it and the LP cost rarely mattered.
I hope you include Pot of Desires in one of these types videos, would be interesting to see how players of other card games evaluate the effect and costs.
Gotta say, "Exodia" is now such a well-known gaming term that it takes me a moment to realize we're actually talking about THE Exodia in these vids.