@@lawrencejames8011 Yes, because in order show that what you are saying is rubbish you challenge the idea and prove the counter argument. As George RR Martin said, “When you cut out a man’s tongue you are not proving to the world he’s a liar, you are only showing that you are afraid of what he has to say.”
@Brandon Neifert Yes because if you say that someones speech is spreading dangerous disinformation and discord, as every instant in history that people in favor of censorship has justified, then it leaves the question, to whom do you give the job as the censor? To whom would you give the job that decides for you what you can read, watch, write or hear? To whom would you give that responsibility for someone that is incorruptible, not weak-willed or has no bias in them whatsoever? The answer is no one.
If you live in a family where you are punished, ostracised, have to apologise for saying what you think, you are not living in a free family. Self censorship starts among friends, family, and carries on....
Such a shame that Jordan P. is not at the top of his game today. He knew all the arguments and counter-arguments about this war for Free-Speech and Freedom before it had even begun in the West. I guess he had studied the same war taking place elsewhere. I hope he comes back soon! The Glorious Jordan Peterson leading the intellectual charge against the dark forces of Thought Control and Technocratic Slavery!
He's ok, but he's the living definition of 'tinkering around the edges'. Until he think Corona is the biggest issue, he has no relevance, and I have thought this for a long time about anyone going after universities instead of the whole culture.
@@Morningstar-xz5bl That's a pity, I was just about to look for one to join so I could be officially offended by....... well........, just about everything really.
Insulting someone is not nice but to prosecute over an insult/remark is infantile. Government seem to have no problem blowing people to pieces when they have one of their spates with another government, go figure.
@mike christian An infant has limited capabilities to damage our lives compared to the thought police. It is infantile to believe that the world should respond to your cries with urgency and concern to one's every whim perhaps?
Laws which punish those which encourage violence against fellow subjects ( NZ is still a monarchy ) - the recent atrocity by a hate-sodden lunatic are proof enough of the need for such laws.
@@lawrencejames8011 But I think there's a real problem with the idea of speech-as-violence. Legislating against 'hurtful' speech will only achieve the same outcomes that suppression of speech has achieved in all the awful 20th century examples we know about and can study. Conflating the difference between hateful action and hateful words, and then codifying that into law, will only ever have terrible outcomes. For everybody, not just the perpetrators of violent words or actions.
I agree I don't do PC it's a load of crap. If people want to walk about like freaks it needs calling out and if people don't like it sort your life out
Speaking as a gay man, quotes like "the community is outraged" get thrown around to justify ridiculous positions and no one seems to question the validity of these statements. I'm part of this community, I'm not outraged it's a sensible decision, but no one asked me.
There is no longer a 'community'. Every letter in LGBT are people who have had very little in common besides having the same enemies. Since leftism and trans activists started making unreasonable, illiberal demands of society within the past 5-10 years or so, they have made enemies of people that LGB people aren't enemies with. If we no longer share the same enemies, then we have no reason for alliance.
Its like when people complain foreigners are taking all the jobs because they charge less and hence more hire them. Cries of outrage. And yet most of us do the exact same thing every day...we will choose a certain supermarket over another because of the cheaper prices....likewise petrol stations,hell even other workers,even if the were all english, chances are we are going with the cheapest....does that make us anti english?? Sane people seem to lose the means to think properly when the subject is Gender, Race,sexuality....you would almost think some shadowy groups had made these their trojan horse battlegrounds until the guise of "justice and equality"
We sometimes forget that the whole offence industry started when women began identifying as feminists rather than as individual women. To stave off the hordes who will descend on me for saying this, I’m a woman who is old enough to have watched the rise of feminism first hand.
Search "Harry the Owl" case. Accused of "hate speech" (& taken to court) roughly the same time as Kate Scottow. He was, quite rightly) vindicted. Kate wasn't! Kate's accuser is a nasty piece of work (Stephanie Hayden, calls themselves The Flying Lawyer, unqualified). Now up to 30ish similiar accusation! . In the meantime the tax payer is paying their costs!
Glad to see this VERY important victory of this battle. However, the war is not only far from over, but the sane, free speech-loving normal humans are losing this war, we need a string of these victories and an unrelenting onslaught to topple the woke cult
I'm waiting to see if the woke'ists get a leader because at the moment they're running around like headless chickens. Without a firm hand setting their rules half the time they're turning on each other for not being virtuous enough. We should fear them IF a leader arises.
Don't hold your breath Alan. I've got a mad idea though, how about if all those who disagreed with the BBC's 'view on things' just stopped paying the license fee? Just a thought.
Seems to me that the point everyone misses is that my freedom to insult, belittle and offend you, is perfectly matched by your right to totally ignore everything I say. If you cry like a little snowflake because of the severity of my words, not only have you allowed my words to have power over you, but you have most likely also confirmed them.
We all owe each other a basic level of respect; respect boundaries, respect privacy, and respect somebody's right to an opinion. In all three aspects it has been steadily eroded over the years.
You're right, Meg. It seems to qualify as a CIV ie, a Clearly Identifiable Victim, you must be one of the alphabet soup types, LGBT ... whatever ... have a deep suntan, and if really lucky, be disabled. Without these qualifications, you're sunk, invisible, have no relevance .. in fact, if you cannot be patronised by the newly sanctimonius, what's the point of being .... you? Happy New Year! 🌞
@@paul74432 I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, Paul. I am disabled and for the most part, people have been kind and considerate, but my 'no messing' attitude deters anyone who tries to patronize me.
@@Boudicca165 Yeh I get pretty tough myself when it's face to face, but when it's my country's government that are persecuting me from Whitehall it's difficult to get near them.
I might not like or agree with everything people say. But I will fight to the death to defend anyones right to say it. the crybabies need to toughen up...sticks and stones n all freedom of speech is vital...political correctness is idiotic
Woman says “grow a pair” (of balls - not correct anatomical term). Sexist isn’t it? What if man said “grow a pair” (of tits - not a correct anatomical term). And now watch gymnastic rationalisations to justify their sexism. WTF?
16:50 Douglas is one smart cookie. Growing up, I was told 'life's tough and then you die'. Youths these days need to learn that motto and grow the hell up.
The only speech in need of defending is having the right to say some uncomfortable things. By very definition freedom of speech is having that right, as saying pleasant things needs no defending as no one would object to a person saying nice things.
Yet again, Murray articulates so eloquently what most of us would like to say. And what we feel about the increasing virtue-signalling malice of a (somehow) hugely powerful minority of white-haters.
The government have to get real and start withdrawing funds from universities who don't toe the line combined with sacking chancellors and teachers who break the law
@@nonfictionone Kevin seems to be the only consistent presenter who hasn't flip flopped his opinion to suit whoever he is trying to appeal too. Julia isn't too bad at it but Dan Wooten is I have noticed.
When people are being murdered , raped , robbed and seriously abused 24 / 7 why are the police and judicial system wasting time and effort on stupid trivial verbal quarrels? Thank goodness for the judge's common sense.
@@jackmellor5536 it's definitely not in any ancient text. It's only a few decades old. The concept of it would have been completely foreign to basically everyone who ever lived. Sort of like democracy
If someone takes offence it is their choice and right to do that. That is the other side of the coin, whether offence was intended or not. What if offence was intended and was not taken?
If you live in a society where you believe you’re going to be punished for saying what you think, you are not living in a free society.
Well we don't live in a free society and haven't my entire life. We're only just realising it.
Even if what you say is incendiary rubbish calculated to spread discord and disorder ?
@@lawrencejames8011 Yes, because in order show that what you are saying is rubbish you challenge the idea and prove the counter argument. As George RR Martin said, “When you cut out a man’s tongue you are not proving to the world he’s a liar, you are only showing that you are afraid of what he has to say.”
@Brandon Neifert Yes because if you say that someones speech is spreading dangerous disinformation and discord, as every instant in history that people in favor of censorship has justified, then it leaves the question, to whom do you give the job as the censor? To whom would you give the job that decides for you what you can read, watch, write or hear? To whom would you give that responsibility for someone that is incorruptible, not weak-willed or has no bias in them whatsoever? The answer is no one.
If you live in a family where you are punished, ostracised, have to apologise for saying what you think, you are not living in a free family. Self censorship starts among friends, family, and carries on....
Douglas is an absolute weapon with his words. He has got to be one of the greatest speakers of our time. I could listen to him for hours!
Yes indeed I agree ☝🏻
“In order to being able to think, you have to risk being offensive”. Dr. Jordan Peterson.
Such a shame that Jordan P. is not at the top of his game today. He knew all the arguments and counter-arguments about this war for Free-Speech and Freedom before it had even begun in the West. I guess he had studied the same war taking place elsewhere.
I hope he comes back soon! The Glorious Jordan Peterson leading the intellectual charge against the dark forces of Thought Control and Technocratic Slavery!
And rightly so, if your utterances cause mayhem: go ahead and shout kill all the ***** [ insert whoever you hate ] and that's all right.
@@vickingvicbubble8042 dude he's backkk check the channel :)
"Critical thinking" as a criminal act.
' the war (against the virus) is not meant to be won , but continuous '
Orwell
Sense ? Translation ?
Always a pleasure to listen to a man of reason
I can only applaud Douglas. His commentary, bravery and wit deserve a far larger audience. Thank you 🙏
Agreed 👍
Love you Douglas Murray ❤️
Twaddle: he is an accomplice of extremist racketeers of hatred.
He's ok, but he's the living definition of 'tinkering around the edges'. Until he think Corona is the biggest issue, he has no relevance, and I have thought this for a long time about anyone going after universities instead of the whole culture.
Let's be clear, this is about power and the ability to to control others.
@Forsaken Passages hear hear!
Yep, control freaks always gonna control freak.
You absolutely nailed that one.
there is no lgbqtp+ community, love Douglas Murray
Does that mean there is no straight community?
@@johnthorpe163 yes there's no straight community
@@Morningstar-xz5bl That's a pity, I was just about to look for one to join so I could be officially offended by....... well........, just about everything really.
What's the 'P' for?
@@calstonjew That was my question too. P?
Can listen to Douglas all day long.
Me too
ditto...
I generally do
Fortunatelythere's no shortage of podcasts and interviews with him so I'm pleased to say I do.
@@sebastianforbes1 phew
Damn it Douglas. Loved your final speech! I’d vote for you in a heartbeat! We can turn the tide
Insulting someone is not nice but to prosecute over an insult/remark is infantile. Government seem to have no problem blowing people to pieces when they have one of their spates with another government, go figure.
I’m offended. Lawyer up.
and and, taking away our Rights to have a Job and Get Paid
@mike christian An infant has limited capabilities to damage our lives compared to the thought police. It is infantile to believe that the world should respond to your cries with urgency and concern to one's every whim perhaps?
@@jakebullet1731 fuckin hell hahaha
Some people thoroughly deserve to be insulted.
Douglas Murray, has the intellect to explain what I cannot. Thank you, Douglas x
“Freedom to only speak non offensively is not freedom of speech” powerful, petition in New Zealand to fight new hate speech laws.
Fire it up! I'm in Hamilton and would gladly help out
Laws which punish those which encourage violence against fellow subjects ( NZ is still a monarchy ) - the recent atrocity by a hate-sodden lunatic are proof enough of the need for such laws.
@@lawrencejames8011 But I think there's a real problem with the idea of speech-as-violence. Legislating against 'hurtful' speech will only achieve the same outcomes that suppression of speech has achieved in all the awful 20th century examples we know about and can study. Conflating the difference between hateful action and hateful words, and then codifying that into law, will only ever have terrible outcomes. For everybody, not just the perpetrators of violent words or actions.
Words have consequences: violent words have violent consequences.
“My definition of a free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular.” - Adlai Stevenson II
To hell with "protected groups" again this is all about power and control.
I agree I don't do PC it's a load of crap. If people want to walk about like freaks it needs calling out and if people don't like it sort your life out
They said that in Germany in the Thirties and look what happened, think man ! Words have consequences even when uttered by morons.
@@lawrencejames8011 silencing people creates more of a problem.
In what ways ?
Speaking as a gay man, quotes like "the community is outraged" get thrown around to justify ridiculous positions and no one seems to question the validity of these statements. I'm part of this community, I'm not outraged it's a sensible decision, but no one asked me.
You're a powerful part of the push back against ridiculousness 💪 I'm so proud of people like you.
What community ?
It's almost like we are all individuals with free will...
There is no longer a 'community'. Every letter in LGBT are people who have had very little in common besides having the same enemies. Since leftism and trans activists started making unreasonable, illiberal demands of society within the past 5-10 years or so, they have made enemies of people that LGB people aren't enemies with. If we no longer share the same enemies, then we have no reason for alliance.
Its like when people complain foreigners are taking all the jobs because they charge less and hence more hire them. Cries of outrage. And yet most of us do the exact same thing every day...we will choose a certain supermarket over another because of the cheaper prices....likewise petrol stations,hell even other workers,even if the were all english, chances are we are going with the cheapest....does that make us anti english??
Sane people seem to lose the means to think properly when the subject is Gender, Race,sexuality....you would almost think some shadowy groups had made these their trojan horse battlegrounds until the guise of "justice and equality"
Well at least that's one win for free speech a court actually siding with the right to say things that are not just "nice" .
Children enjoy playing 'at being rude: adults ( with exceptions ) do not. I assume you must one.
Should freedom of speech be protected?
Protection should not even be needed. It should be inherent and not up for discussion
Of course!
Of Course 🙄
@alfie 0 The word 'no' offends me, so that's you blacklisted for life mate.
it's already gone
DM, a very clever man, has my total admiration. A very bright and interesting person.
When was the last time someone said "it's a free country" ?
Victims should be real victims not just pretend ones.
We sometimes forget that the whole offence industry started when women began identifying as feminists rather than as individual women. To stave off the hordes who will descend on me for saying this, I’m a woman who is old enough to have watched the rise of feminism first hand.
“People competing to be the most offended person” 👏🏻
Truth, sadly.
I'm sorry, WHAT freedom ?
Three cheers for a sane ruling. And Douglas would be my first choice for Prime Minister.
Search "Harry the Owl" case. Accused of "hate speech" (& taken to court) roughly the same time as Kate Scottow. He was, quite rightly) vindicted. Kate wasn't! Kate's accuser is a nasty piece of work (Stephanie Hayden, calls themselves The Flying Lawyer, unqualified). Now up to 30ish similiar accusation! . In the meantime the tax payer is paying their costs!
Prime Minister of Rockall,.
Glad to see this VERY important victory of this battle. However, the war is not only far from over, but the sane, free speech-loving normal humans are losing this war, we need a string of these victories and an unrelenting onslaught to topple the woke cult
I'm waiting to see if the woke'ists get a leader because at the moment they're running around like headless chickens. Without a firm hand setting their rules half the time they're turning on each other for not being virtuous enough. We should fear them IF a leader arises.
Most people can't afford to go to court to contest a non-crime being on their record.
I look forward to the day the BBC have a TV show called Mock the Woke 😂
It will never happen. They are leading the woke culture.
Don't hold your breath Alan. I've got a mad idea though, how about if all those who disagreed with the BBC's 'view on things' just stopped paying the license fee? Just a thought.
@@dougalmaguire312 tried that, got threatened by the legals 😂
Seems to me that the point everyone misses is that my freedom to insult, belittle and offend you, is perfectly matched by your right to totally ignore everything I say. If you cry like a little snowflake because of the severity of my words, not only have you allowed my words to have power over you, but you have most likely also confirmed them.
and that is why they want to forbid you to talk and think, they are narcissistic tyrants
People conflate politeness to mean the same as respect. The latter has to be earned or does not mean anything.
We all owe each other a basic level of respect; respect boundaries, respect privacy, and respect somebody's right to an opinion. In all three aspects it has been steadily eroded over the years.
Yes indeed
When will students and sometimes their parents realise that they are colleges not kindergartens
How about freedom to show on camera that what is reported from hospitals does not match up to the suppressed image ?
automatic arrest for doing that as we have seen
@@stingstingy6236 really? I can believe that but do you have a link?
Yes I Agree
@@ajay012 I've seen it. Surely hospitals are public spaces so no idea what law she is supposed to have broken filming there.
Now now. Easy tiger. You'll be demanding some truth and honesty next ;)
Nice to know I've got Douglas Murray, and Peter Hitchens, in my corner if needed. 👍👍👍
Those who were "offended" by what this woman said are often quick to offend me. I have yet to call the police.
You're right, Meg. It seems to qualify as a CIV ie, a Clearly Identifiable Victim, you must be one of the alphabet soup types, LGBT ... whatever ... have a deep suntan, and if really lucky, be disabled.
Without these qualifications, you're sunk, invisible, have no relevance .. in fact, if you cannot be patronised by the newly sanctimonius, what's the point of being .... you?
Happy New Year! 🌞
@@Boudicca165 I've got news for you; if you have a disability in this country you have no relevance either. I speak as someone who knows.
punch them in the face
@@paul74432
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences, Paul. I am disabled and for the most part, people have been kind and considerate, but my 'no messing' attitude deters anyone who tries to patronize me.
@@Boudicca165 Yeh I get pretty tough myself when it's face to face, but when it's my country's government that are persecuting me from Whitehall it's difficult to get near them.
I might not like or agree with everything people say.
But I will fight to the death to defend anyones right to say it.
the crybabies need to toughen up...sticks and stones n all
freedom of speech is vital...political correctness is idiotic
I AM OFENDED THAT YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING OFFENCIVE ..... WORKS BOTH WAYS
Sticks and stones may hurt my bones...and for everything else: grow a pair.
Agreed!
@@net4216 it's clear they stopped teaching that nursery rhyme to primary school kids 20-30 years ago
@@dinardsi9006 Yep 🤣
Woman says “grow a pair” (of balls - not correct anatomical term). Sexist isn’t it? What if man said “grow a pair” (of tits - not a correct anatomical term). And now watch gymnastic rationalisations to justify their sexism. WTF?
Trust me, 'Pig in a Wig' was a compliment.
I know right, I just looked at the person in question.
Mess in a dress
16:50 Douglas is one smart cookie. Growing up, I was told 'life's tough and then you die'. Youths these days need to learn that motto and grow the hell up.
Louder for those in the back!!!! Excellent interview. Thank you!
The only speech in need of defending is having the right to say some uncomfortable things. By very definition freedom of speech is having that right, as saying pleasant things needs no defending as no one would object to a person saying nice things.
I love the wisdom and humor of Douglas Murray.
Wonderful stuff. SPEAK ON BROTHERS
Yet again, Murray articulates so eloquently what most of us would like to say. And what we feel about the increasing virtue-signalling malice of a (somehow) hugely powerful minority of white-haters.
Enjoy your Talks Douglas Murray. You are a True True man. 🌹
You might just as well outlaw "nastiness and evil". Pathetic.
Thanks. Excellent interview.
Happy New Year Douglas! Keep up the hard fight. Millions of us are greatly inspired by your words, thoughts, and deeds.
Douglas Murray on Talk Radio = Instaclick
Douglas is hilarious and bang on the money 👍👍👍🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Thank you for your optimism at the end of the talk. "They are the minority and we are the Majority" reassuring.
Excellent interview. Everyone should watch this.
I’m deeply offended by our governments telling me I have to be in lockdown.
The right to free speech means nothing without the right to offend
Jodie Ginsberg - I totally agree with this quote.
Well said Douglas you've made me laugh today .
Douglas, you have given me a huge lift!
Look up trans Stephanie Hayden, the individual who got this woman arrested and took her to court. Kiwi farms have a whole section devoted to him.
The government have to get real and start withdrawing funds from universities who don't toe the line combined with sacking chancellors and teachers who break the law
Kevin O'Sullivan is fast becoming my favourite presenter in TalkRadio. Seems to speak about the more interesting topics.
And fast becoming the ONLY presenter on TalkRADIO. Seems that every time I tune in, he's on.
@@graememorrison333 I imagine the main team are currently all on holiday over the new year.
@@deancosgrave9582 somewhere where they can't be offended by opinions that differ from their own I hope.
The Wright Stuff to Vine Show was a massive downgrade, not just presenter but loss of Kevin.
@@nonfictionone Kevin seems to be the only consistent presenter who hasn't flip flopped his opinion to suit whoever he is trying to appeal too. Julia isn't too bad at it but Dan Wooten is I have noticed.
Thank you Douglas Murray and talkradio for raising this issue!I am one of those who have been in trouble for making comments I should not have made.
When people are being murdered , raped , robbed and seriously abused 24 / 7 why are the police and judicial system wasting time and effort on stupid trivial verbal quarrels? Thank goodness for the judge's common sense.
Douglas Murray is a shining light in a cesspit of enforced darkness.
Wonderful mixed metaphor; thanks.
"In order to be able to think, one must risk being offensive". Jordan Peterson has been saying this for years!
What Is free speech again?
Stop asking awkward questions. ;-)
@@jackmellor5536 it's definitely not in any ancient text. It's only a few decades old. The concept of it would have been completely foreign to basically everyone who ever lived. Sort of like democracy
An extinct concept - liberties and rights RIP.
Well said Douglas Murray.
Thank goodness for Douglas! He gives me hope.
I could listen to Douglas all night too. Brilliant man.
I love Douglas Murray for what he says and what he stands for.
In my mind Douglas Murray is like the Alan Watts of social commentary.
In my mind he's the Graham Norton of Nationalism
I was thinking he's the English Milo Yiannopolis. Take that how you want (ducky).
Making it a crime to offend someone opens pandora’s box for an authoritative society, words are NOT crimes, actions ARE.
Excellent speech from Douglas, again.
My grandmother used to say sticks and stones may break your bones but names will never hurt you and how right she was.
Should I be concerned that I wholly agree with Douglas?
Never having enough of listening to Douglas.
At last, a Judge with balls !
You can tell DM is so sick of this crap 😂 I feel ya, Douglas. I wish every university student would listen to you speak!
I might not like what you say but I like that you have the right to say it.
Doug is always a voice of reason, bravo
What about this hate speech in scotland absolutely mad who ever passes this law are certavible inmates running the asylum
That would be count Dankulas pug dog that passed that law...or the Ginger dwarf. 🐶🐶🐶
If someone takes offence it is their choice and right to do that.
That is the other side of the coin, whether offence was intended or not.
What if offence was intended and was not taken?
I identify as a youtube comment.
....you bigot. Culturally appropriating comments like that
you need cancelling straightaway.....
That's homophobic
well if the youtube community is hurt heads must roll! despite nobody agrees on youtube and its not a community !
I identify as Kelly Brookes bicycle seat. If she doesn't sit on my face, she's a vile bigot that must be destroyed.
As a gay man himself, there's no one better than Douglas Murray to talk about this.
“If someone tells me that I've hurt their feelings, I say, 'I'm still waiting to hear what your point is.” The Hitch.
Brilliant discussion.
Either we all have free speech, or none of us do. Selective speech isn't free speech.
When someone says ' I believe in freedom of speech...but...' 😆
You’re never going to stop nastiness and we should stop trying. Why should insults bother us as adults. It’s only someones opinion.
A lot of people need reminding that morals aren't laws.
I worry that if a male had "insulted" the Trans person, the outcome would have been different 🤔 Happy New Year
People of Britain we need to start helping white working class boys they are having it bad we need to help them have a further 🤔
Edison Cavani a Manchester United player has just been given a 3 match ban, a 100k fine and RE-EDUCATION. For a tweet.
No need to buy politicians and laws for much longer, the corporations will do their own dirty work.
"Freedom only to speak inoffensively , is not worth having" That's the best description of Freedom of Speech I've ever heard.
No-one should have the legal right to not be offended...where will the madness end.
Love this man. He is courageous and brilliant
if they did away with avarice there would be no politicians.
I hate being treated like a child. I am an adult of 60.
A mirror reflected an image of myself which made me feel oogy. The mirror and the mirror's manufacturer have been charged accordingly.
"Pig in a wig" lol. Im stealing that
What we all want is freedom of speech for everyone !!
I'm far from a gay man but I want to give Mr. Douglas Murray a big thank you kiss. Legend.
What a brilliant mind Douglas has. he gives me such reason for hope
A very important ruling. The tide has clearly turned.
Well said mate, thanks.