@@socialrehab9234 there have always been people from minority groups that are right wing, but I was just saying that it is more likely the less disadvantages that you face in society.
“very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness.’ Christopher Hitchens
If I had a dog and took it to get operations because "he thinks he is a cat" I would be in prison for animal abuse and in a mental institution because I cant grasp reality. Why we are allowing it to be done to children?
ungratefulmetalpansy ... No, but you have little boys saying they should’ve been born with a vagina and little girls believing they should’ve been born with a penis. And we not only believe them, but provide hormones and surgery. Just as frigging ridiculous.
@Buzzman I don't think it is a strategy to demoralize. It is the effect of demoralization. "If you believe in nothing, you will fall for anything". We lost our beliefs long ago.
Finally, someone puts into words what the vast majority of us are thinking, but lack the courage or articulation to speak out. These guys are a breath of fresh air.
@@dgarzaart2000 I have the audio book version of 'The Madness of Crowds' and it's an excellent listen. Murray reads it himself and he's such a captivating narrator.
Let's not forget, like all talking heads on all sides, he's here to make money. He's got a book to sell. He's here to make money out of the likes of you. People on all sides need to think about that before lavishing praise on polemicists. Their aim here is to get you to part with your money.
@@zeddeka Nobody has no obligation to buy his books of course he want to sell has much as possible ( anybody who writes books want them to be sold ) it's the same principle over an infinity of products so I don't get your point when everybody and everything want you to get you to part with your money.
This level of discourse is what I miss most about living in the UK. We are blessed to produce intelligent and critical thinkers. It's something to be proud of, whether you agree with them or not. Thanks
It's funny, I've had SJWs argue with me until they're blue in the face, but the moment I bring up that MLK quote and ask their opinion, the disappear without a word.
Unironically, this has now been claimed to be hate speech. I can't be bothered to type their reasoning, but I think you can guess it (it's privilege related.)
I feel you! I haven't heard him speak much but I'd like to hear more. We must always be careful that we do not cross the line of agreeing with the next thing somebody says before they've spoken it. It's one of my first times articulating this idea. Does it make sense to you the way I worded it?
DM is great - making entertainment out of logic is wonderful. That said, the Mike Nayna documentary about the Marxist student takeover at Evergreen State College is an absolute gut punch. Please consider sharing - I think it has the power to change minds like no other, as you watch real people get consumed by an ideology and turn into a ravenous mob. The world must watch. ua-cam.com/video/FH2WeWgcSMk/v-deo.html
Cecil Charles Official thanks for that. I had heard of the evergreen but not watched the doc. On episode now. Freaking terrifying. A cult. No question.
@@biscuitsalive Agreed - it's so scary. Please share. I didn't realize until I watched it a few days ago. This is how gulags happen - how we justify genocide. Please share.
Gay this, straight that.. it's completely irrelevant. The only time I want to know about somebody's sexual orientation is when I'm thinking about them romantically.
@@maskofsan1ty Right. And according to you guys, believing heterosexuality is morally upright is a hate crime, so the fact that you're even bringing this up on such a non-partial comment tells a hell of a lot more about you than us.
@@christianp.7675 If you mean hetrosexuality is morally superior, then yes, it that is a bigoted view. Hate crime? Nah. Just stupid and bigoted. The original comment isn't non-partial as it implies bigotry doesn't exist. This is demonstrably untrue.
@@maskofsan1ty You entirely missed my point. Your irreverence towards our beliefs is bigoted in itself. You're on this guy's case for being neutral, for goodness sake. Now, please realize the word bigotry is not a weapon to wield. Opposing opinions are not "bigoted" just because you don't like them. Finally, this guy isn't saying bigotry doesn't exist. He's not denying its existence. He doesn't touch on the topic in the first place. Your mental justification for even thinking he denies it worries me, because there's no logical pathway to get there from it. Get over yourself man.
We are being bullied into silence and to stay dumb in case we lose our positions or jobs. Are we going to be brave enough to speak out. We need to because all is lost.
Many years ago when I was running a Creative Arts course in an East London college, I got a phone call from St Martins College (coincidentally the college that I had attended years earlier as a student myself). The caller told me that they were looking for two black students to fill their quota for their next year's intake. Did I have anyone suitable? Well, of course I did. So I spoke to two of my black students who had not yet got a place anywhere, suggested to them that they should apply to St. Martins. After deliberating the matter, I also told them that they would definitely be accepted, as St.Martins had contacted me, and explicitly said they would get in if they were black. They (the students) said that they didn't like the idea that they were being selected on the basis of their race. Nevertheless, (although I also completely disagreed with the racist tokenism involved) I encouraged them to consider the benefits of attending such a prestigious college before making their minds up. They both rejected the offers (and went elsewhere). I still occasionally wonder if I did the right thing by them by being honest and telling them the whole circumstances of the offer. However, I know that if It were me, and I found out later the circumstances of my acceptance, I would have felt used and betrayed.
Peter Rumsby U did the right thing!! Racial discrimination (positive) in this case, undermines the true capability. I must say the students had spine! Good for them
I think you did the wrong thing as you were projecting your own feelings onto them, so instead of being happy about being accepted into such a prestigious school. They would always know that they only got in on the basis of their race, because you told them that in advance. If that had got in, you had already cheapened their victory.
Within any zealot group like ISIS it's important to them at least not just that you are a member of their group idealogy, it has to be the right flavor of that ideology. Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Suffi, etc. They are just as happy to kill them as they are white Infidels.
@@bluemouth8066 thats not why the CIA funded them, it was to destabilize the region to put puppet governments in charge of the natural resources. It regime change tactics.
Interesting point about sense of humour: When I was a raving looney fundamentalist christian back in the day, I had no sense of humour as well. Everything was either "the truth" or a threat. There are many other indistinguishable tropes between fundamentalist religion and "wokeness" as well.
I'm a Christian and I have a great sense of humour. 😀 One needs it to survive nowadays. Andrew Murray and Jordan Petersen are brilliant spokesmen for our time!!
I love both of you dearly. I am a teacher in the U.S. and we are constantly asked to believe what we know to be untrue - and it is wearing on me and my colleagues. Please continue your work. We need you!
If you are teaching people lies you are harming them. You are in essence no longer teaching but spewing propaganda. Time to find a new job and make sure the admin knows why and tell them to go fuck themselves.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!" -Isaiah 5 20-21
To have these two minds in discussion is a salvation among all the miasma currently obfuscating reason around these subjects. Two of the most important voices we have.
"If you are interested in taboos and dogmas, and if you are for whatever reason wired not to mind treading on them, this is a great time to be alive. Dogmas and orthodoxies tell you so much about the time you are living in. It's like living archeology. You see everything about what is actually going on in our society by looking at the things that you aren't meant to talk about. " - Douglas Murray
I've been in a biology department these last 9 yrs, working and as a student. I'm awaiting my Viva voce, I know that if I say things like - men can't have babies, or there is no place for equality of outcome - everything should be based on merit. If I say that I'm doomed as regards future job prospects. It's a Biology department!
I don't usually comment on the internet, but can I also urge you, as suggested above, to record everything. Think clearly and calmly and stick to your guns. Do not allow yourself to become flustered or angry. Tell the truth. If they criticise you for that, then you will have recorded evidence to share. I really do think that we've arrived at the point that we, as sensible, usually quiet individuals, find our voices. This is no longer acceptable. It is degrading and unpleasant and I will not allow my children to grow up in this sort of environment.
@@Lebowski53 I might add that whilst I am mute, mentally ill and have never commented on anything before; and even though there is no visual evidence of me whatsoever (other than some 70's documentary about Cuckoos apparently) - I think now,, , on my deathbed , I must add to this by speaking my truth and finally saying ... . "no comment"
@@krsnadasschleusener3367 don't be the person who points out typos in UA-cam comments... literally nobody likes that person. Come on... you're better than that.
this was a set up piece i heard to many key words and the agenda became palpable otherwise i would of said it was two people trying to make sense of something made from nonsense
@Bobby Sternlicht It's truly amazing that for the last 4 years these two guys have been tilting at the same windmills, and fans lap it up without getting tired of it all.
It's April 2024 now. Only just come across this video, sadly. What a superb discourse. Douglas' thought processes on this whole subject are extraordinary. Thank you gentlemen, not just food for thought - a Michelin 3 star dining experience for the mind.
Douglas Murray has one of my favorite voices of all time. His voice and cadence reminds me of Sir Winston Churchill when he was relaxed, not giving a speech. Keep up the great work guys!
Murray’s train analogy of the situation is bang on, the train was pulling into the station of equality and then sped up down the tracks to authoritarian ideology.
mytmouse57 no it’s accurate this country has never been so tolerant same for most of the “western” world, go back 30 years and you will see the difference in how gay men and women, trans people, ethnic minorities and women were treated in both society in general and on the media. Over the last few decades things have become far more tolerant and let’s be honest things in the 30-50 year old past were still better than the treatment shown to such minorities in many countries around today outside the “western” world where gays are thrown of the top of buildings and women are kept as house and sex slaves. The people who complain about this have serious problems but they are internal not societal either they have no sense of humour which is a very important part of “western” adhesion (because it allows us to laugh not only at others but at ourselves which is a vitally important part of personal growth), or they have no concept of true oppression because if they did they would not be whining so much.
Two of my favourite speakers and thinkers. Been following Douglas Murray for more than a decade now, and just got on to Andrew Doyle about a year ago. They compliment each other perfectly, explain and expand upon their ideas in such clear, concise and enjoyable ways, and are just important voices to listen to these days.
Douglas, your term "overcorrection" has been on the tip of my tongue when describing what is going on these days...thank you for giving me the word to explain this craziness!
OddityDK yes, Hitchens was a HUGE loss for people who use their own brain to think. And I mean really huge. It’s not easy to find great intellectuals with fantastic sense of humour and a granitic will to not give up against the armies of brainwashed humans
A G Nope, his was indeed “A beautiful Mind”. Such a shame he died when he did. The way social media has taken off and influences everything now, his reach and impact would have been so much greater. I would have loved to hear him Hitchslapping AOC, Corbyn, Antifa etc.
Wow and wow again. This is one of the best discussions I've ever had the pleasure of finding on YT. Where else on the MSM might you have heard this I wonder.
In the University of Bath, there is a young Electrical Engineer, whose 'pure-science' Professor has just fired him, because "a member of the public" complained about the Engineer's website, which is knowledgeably critical of Islam. So, unlike the situation where the 'scientist' Galileo, had to defend science against the metaphysics of the Church, here we have a 'pure Scientist' defending intolerant metaphysics, against reason and argument!
@@andrewoliver8930 My young friend has decided not to pursue the matter; but - as he is a member of 'FOR BRITAIN' - I think there will be some publicity in the near future. I know he was interviewed by Anne Marie Waters on the 'FOR BRITAIN' website; in the Members' section.
@@Mark_Dyer1 It depends what it said and what context, as with all things. Galileo was ostracized because the church didn't like the science as it contravened the bible teachings. Not because he wrote an opinion on Christianity.
I am watching this, while studying education to be a teacher. Right now I am questioning my job choice. No one knows how thing will be in like 6 to 8 years and I couldnt imagine dealing with stuff like this on a daily basis, while not being able to state my own opinion and views.
Thanks. You're providing a rational, intelligent and accurate account of destructive times. There's many people sitting in silence who totally agree with you.
As a girl I was a "tomboy," many of my girlfriends were tomboys. In those days men had more interesting careers ahead of them than girls - girls were destined for marriage and kids. I read adventure stories and fully identified with the male heroes. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. I thought I was reading about humans, rather than men per se. I believed (quite rightly, it turned out) that if I worked hard, I would be able to have a career, a job, money, be independent, be everything I want to be and do everything I wanted to do. Nevertheless, I often sighed to my mom, as did many other girls "I wish I was a boy." God forbid that someone should have marched me off to the surgeon for radical surgery and hormone treatment. Yikes and eek! I shudder at what they are doing to young children these days. primary school children!!! The age when kids still come home with tales of seeing a lion in the schoolyard! Yikes!
How old are you-70? I'm 55 and girls in my year freely did whatever careers they wanted to (if they qualified etc). And gee surprise surprise girls were 'destined for marriage and kids'-only the most important job for sustaining the species. Men had to go out and work in mines, factories etc while women stayed in the comfort of home all day. It's coincidentally only since working conditions have become so much better that women suddenly want to go out and work.Go and do it-who cares? (Except the species).
@@rogerpattube So women who do not want to be wives or mothers should what? Be forced into it or starve? Because what you are suggesting is taking away womens ability to earn a living wage. I do not want to live in such a society that has women chained to husbands and children and home life. I lived that life and then escaped it. Now many years later I am the bread winner of my household while my current fiance is at home. Though there is equality because he has his own investments and does freelance art. So neither of us has any power over the other. I am much happier this way.
Roger Patterson, I'm 65. Ten years difference. But then I was probably also on a different continent from you. Also, each life is different. Each family suffers in its own way. As a kid my father saw I was bright, he was proud of my straight As and encouraged me. Together we dreamt of a brilliant future. Then my mother died (I was 14), and my father married a psychopath. Long story short, she convinced him it would be very bad for me to go to university: "your child" would fall in with radicals (daily news of terrible scenes of rioting on campuses), sleep with black men, etc. I applied for one bursary after the other, until a teacher said: "But you already HAVE a bursary, dear." Turns out the psycho-wife had worked my father's fears into a frenzy ("after all,: see how that child went behind your back to get to uni without you") and it was better not to even say anything about it to "that child," which is why in my ignorance I kept applying and it came out (blush-blush) they'd forgotten to return the money. So I only doubled down on my determination, because, unless I pushed though until I got a good education and career, I would always be at the mercy of bullies. And point number two: all my suffering had been caused by a woman. Workplace sexual harassment were a bit of a joke (even a boss who locked me in his office and took off his clothes), compared to the hard row of getting a toe-hold on a fairly decent life despite the female who thought she was in competition with me for my father's affections. How that woman made him suffer, is another story.
I'm entering into my mid 40s now and I'm eternally thankful of the younger generation being the way they are to stop me going through a mid life crisis. Remember how fun student life used to be in the 90s before they all became fun bereft, pontificating, fist pumping little activists?!
Douglas' final statement is exactly what makes me so frustrated. We are waisting our time on identity politics. It's giving other people free reign to do as they like without the rest of society questioning it. I look at technology and how fast it's going as the perfect example. We hardly even take the time to ask the simple question. "Just because we can, does it mean we should?"
so right. the environment crisis AI medical interventions surveilence . the world around us is changing at breakneck speed and the focus in on what colour you are or how you define your sexuality. How I wish the woke would wake up.
... so... if you won't-don't, shan't'-can't, excuse nievety & ignorance, you're pre-emptivly & posthumously forgiven; but, a "politician" isn't ONLY just a paid-professional-practicioner of identity politics...
@@pereraddison932 I see your point. I am nieve and foolishly presumptuous to hope that politicians will act in favour of the 'people' and not themselves. Still, I hope to think different about Trump. If he wanted to care only for himself and his own, would he have taken on this miserable task of being president of the USA? He had it pretty good already. He did not need to do this unless he was motivated for the greater good of his country.
This is totally, incredibly, massively brilliant and I am rejoicing that someone has the bravery and wisdom to voice what I am feeling but have not been able to articulate. THANK YOU!
Great discussion from two of my favourite ‘commentators’. Also, some valuable comments from audience members afterwards. I hope it is true that the pushback against this awful Woke madness is gaining momentum, there are so many better things for us to spend our lives doing & thinking about.
listened to this TWICE while working to make sure I had digested all of it. Such common sense. "Even the gestapo let that go". utterly brilliant analogy to highlight the overzealous woke crowd who can't see their own hypocrisy.
I think Douglas Murray and Jordan Peterson are the only celebrities who I will be genuinely and sincerely saddened by when they die, whatever age I may be.
@@fionagregory8078 Thanks for asking! Thomas Sowell is a brilliant economist and social theorist who has been extremely prolific. I have been reading his works for decades and love him so much. He about 90 now and I dread the day he's not in this world anymore. Here is his website: www.tsowell.com/
You know you're an intelligent, well-spoken, logical, beautiful person when you get death threats from the liberals. That's a sign that you are successful. Regardless, I'm so sorry Douglas Murray is having to deal with that. I hope he knows how many people support him.
I discovered Titiania McGrath today. I ended up here after searching Andrew Doyle. So critical to be able to discuss these issues. Thanks so much for posting ❤️😍😍😍
"They create something and then pretend it's a figment of your imagination." _That_ is one of the things I hate so much about the media and people who buy into their lies, the constant gas-lighting.
I believe I would have stood and applauded Douglas Murray for his closing statement alone. A very educative discussion between two interesting, engaged, witty and, perhaps most importantly, humane people. Thank you to both.
Originally feminism was about not wanting to be defined solely by your ‘identity’ . I remember it well. It was what I wanted. These modern feminists have so taken the wrong path.
Thats because they won. It got as good as it was going to get for the time being. Natural progression would have completed the journey, but where did that put the feminists who are full if natural hatred? Nowhere. So they invented lies to rekindle the inferno.
We need to have a conversation about the medical consequences of the treatments that are being given for transitions. We need a campaign so that people know the possible consequences of transitioning.
Things can't be left only to them. Folk have to stand their ground, simply not to be intimidated and pushed around. Over history coercion of various kinds, not always physical, have been used to force people into submitting to an ideology with which they do not, often deeply, agree with. There are ways to resist tyranny - which doesn't always come from governments.
Again, Douglas pulls out the stops at the end of a talk and shows his moral passion and care. Why it's important that we get this right and that perhaps we can.
To prove their point about totalitarians and tyrants, humor/satire is the first thing targeted. See examples in history, people who satirized ruthless rulers were shamed, jailed, or killed.
It isn't even that bad here...Jordan Peterson gets ridiculously indulgent people going on minutes long tirades regarding their own hypotheses or refutations of his position(s) with no practical reasons given for their opposition.
A beautiful, passionate, and stirring ending courtesy of Mr. Murray. He is so correct in his estimation of the "opportunity cost" of identity politics and social media navel gazing. Bravo.
Who could predict 50 years ago that in 2019 two gay men would be criticizing the politics of the far Left?
I think Nostradamus did a quatrine years ago
They are still wealthy white men in the West. Probably as privileged as you can get whilst being part of a minority group.
@@nellysmith6006 you forgot to add, 'tarred by the brush of woke culture'
??? There have always been people in all minorities who are right wing. It's nothing new.
@@socialrehab9234 there have always been people from minority groups that are right wing, but I was just saying that it is more likely the less disadvantages that you face in society.
“very often the most intolerant and narrow-minded people are the ones who congratulate themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness.’
Christopher Hitchens
"I am not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde
One of my favourite songs by Aking contains that line and I never had an idea Oscar Wilde said that. Thanks. 👌
Children know the truth until parents start their corruption
Hahaha ,I have not laughed much lately ,Oscar wilde was pretty wild.Merci pour rire,amein.
Ha ha ha...
Perhaps the young should be running the world...while they still know everything.
My personal favorite is his final line on the death bed.
"Either this ugly ceiling goes, or i..."
If I had a dog and took it to get operations because "he thinks he is a cat" I would be in prison for animal abuse and in a mental institution because I cant grasp reality. Why we are allowing it to be done to children?
ungratefulmetalpansy ... No, but you have little boys saying they should’ve been born with a vagina and little girls believing they should’ve been born with a penis. And we not only believe them, but provide hormones and surgery. Just as frigging ridiculous.
Now imagine doing it to a puppy.
@Buzzman I don't think it is a strategy to demoralize. It is the effect of demoralization. "If you believe in nothing, you will fall for anything". We lost our beliefs long ago.
Dogs can’t talk though
@ungratefulmetalpansy ?
what about the people claiming to be deer pony and dragons etc unless you are placing theses animals in humanity. ?
Great discussion. Murray is a throwback to a different era. Gentlemanly, erudite,unruffled. In such a bonkers world we need his voice more than ever.
I'd say he's the new Christopher Hitchens, but he lacks the charm and humour.
@John Brownbill why's that? Could you explain your complaint?
@John Brownbill ?
@John Brownbill
Troll
@John Brownbill Wankeeeeerrrrrrr!
Finally, someone puts into words what the vast majority of us are thinking, but lack the courage or articulation to speak out. These guys are a breath of fresh air.
This was like taking my mind to a five star restaurant.
I love that , I am stealing that quote
Love this way of putting it :-)
Love it
Great comment
wonderfully put
watching this in 2023 and realizing that everything they have warned us about became true.
Both of these people are brilliant and exactly what we desperately need. Douglas Murray's mind in particular is an antidote to madness.
just bought his book. hope to pass it on to my "woke" children
@@dgarzaart2000 I have the audio book version of 'The Madness of Crowds' and it's an excellent listen. Murray reads it himself and he's such a captivating narrator.
Let's not forget, like all talking heads on all sides, he's here to make money. He's got a book to sell. He's here to make money out of the likes of you. People on all sides need to think about that before lavishing praise on polemicists. Their aim here is to get you to part with your money.
Murray's mind is the home to cognitive dissonance.
@@zeddeka Nobody has no obligation to buy his books of course he want to sell has much as possible ( anybody who writes books want them to be sold ) it's the same principle over an infinity of products so I don't get your point when everybody and everything want you to get you to part with your money.
This level of discourse is what I miss most about living in the UK. We are blessed to produce intelligent and critical thinkers.
It's something to be proud of, whether you agree with them or not.
Thanks
Listening to this for a second time.
And its still hits the mark.
And yes, we're winning!
Two of my favourite people.
Yep, I love both these guys 😊
Encouraging children down the trans route is a dangerous phenomenon young children cannot appreciate all the ramifications of such a decision.
I have a dream that my children will live in a world where they will be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
Matt Johnson :
And my dream is that my children will grow up in a world where achievement is more important than identity group.
It's funny, I've had SJWs argue with me until they're blue in the face, but the moment I bring up that MLK quote and ask their opinion, the disappear without a word.
Durzo :
SJW’s are post-modernists.
That philosophy is dead.
I love Dr.Stephen Hicks and his devastating analysis of the beliefs that motivate SJW’s.
Unironically, this has now been claimed to be hate speech. I can't be bothered to type their reasoning, but I think you can guess it (it's privilege related.)
@@freecitizen2760 I've never heard of Dr. Steven Hicks. Looked him up, but there's a lot of videos. Is there one really good one you could recommend?
DM is the man.
I don’t think he’s ever uttered a sentence that I didn’t agree with.
Douglas murray is my hunky-dory 🥰
I feel you! I haven't heard him speak much but I'd like to hear more. We must always be careful that we do not cross the line of agreeing with the next thing somebody says before they've spoken it.
It's one of my first times articulating this idea. Does it make sense to you the way I worded it?
DM is great - making entertainment out of logic is wonderful.
That said, the Mike Nayna documentary about the Marxist student takeover at Evergreen State College is an absolute gut punch. Please consider sharing - I think it has the power to change minds like no other, as you watch real people get consumed by an ideology and turn into a ravenous mob. The world must watch.
ua-cam.com/video/FH2WeWgcSMk/v-deo.html
Cecil Charles Official thanks for that. I had heard of the evergreen but not watched the doc. On episode now. Freaking terrifying.
A cult. No question.
@@biscuitsalive Agreed - it's so scary. Please share. I didn't realize until I watched it a few days ago. This is how gulags happen - how we justify genocide. Please share.
Gay this, straight that.. it's completely irrelevant. The only time I want to know about somebody's sexual orientation is when I'm thinking about them romantically.
Damn. That's shockingly on point for me. Well articulated.
It's not irrelevant if you have bigotry every day.
@@maskofsan1ty Right. And according to you guys, believing heterosexuality is morally upright is a hate crime, so the fact that you're even bringing this up on such a non-partial comment tells a hell of a lot more about you than us.
@@christianp.7675 If you mean hetrosexuality is morally superior, then yes, it that is a bigoted view. Hate crime? Nah. Just stupid and bigoted. The original comment isn't non-partial as it implies bigotry doesn't exist. This is demonstrably untrue.
@@maskofsan1ty You entirely missed my point. Your irreverence towards our beliefs is bigoted in itself. You're on this guy's case for being neutral, for goodness sake.
Now, please realize the word bigotry is not a weapon to wield. Opposing opinions are not "bigoted" just because you don't like them.
Finally, this guy isn't saying bigotry doesn't exist. He's not denying its existence. He doesn't touch on the topic in the first place. Your mental justification for even thinking he denies it worries me, because there's no logical pathway to get there from it. Get over yourself man.
"it's a form of incredibly proactive laziness, isn't it."
love this line
Lazy people will go to the most pains.
@bobby macdiarmid Nah, it's like voting in universal income. A little work, and then you are set for life. Proactive laziness.
Sanity is still around, don't lose hope.
Dave Reynolds ... that is what the Jews said when Hitler came to power.
Sanity is a white, patriachal, social construct.....
@S yeah, thats true.
But I guess I would say that... eh? ...lol
@S only because the patriarchy let you. ...... ha!
@@Orion227 No, the Jews (Barons) said maybe we shouldn't have exploited the Germans....
I love Douglas Murray he comes across as a gentleman.
“If you can hear the dog whistle you are the dog”
Haha, great line! And so true.
Love Andrew’s approach and positive, proactive attitude
"if you hear the whistle, you're the dog." That's going on a t shirt.
My T shirt 'you don't hear the shot that kills you'
Narsufin brilliant!
I want one!
@@chrisneedham5803 not sure what you mean by that
I love dogs
We are being bullied into silence and to stay dumb in case we lose our positions or jobs. Are we going to be brave enough to speak out. We need to because all is lost.
Identity politics is what happens when Narcissus, while hypnotically gazing at his reflection in the pond, picks up a loudspeaker
Or gets a Twitter account
LoudHAILER.
I feel hopeful when I listen to these two honest intelligent men! I’m also very thankful they are trying to spread their wisdom amongst us 😊
Many years ago when I was running a Creative Arts course in an East London college, I got a phone call from St Martins College (coincidentally the college that I had attended years earlier as a student myself). The caller told me that they were looking for two black students to fill their quota for their next year's intake. Did I have anyone suitable?
Well, of course I did. So I spoke to two of my black students who had not yet got a place anywhere, suggested to them that they should apply to St. Martins. After deliberating the matter, I also told them that they would definitely be accepted, as St.Martins had contacted me, and explicitly said they would get in if they were black. They (the students) said that they didn't like the idea that they were being selected on the basis of their race. Nevertheless, (although I also completely disagreed with the racist tokenism involved) I encouraged them to consider the benefits of attending such a prestigious college before making their minds up.
They both rejected the offers (and went elsewhere).
I still occasionally wonder if I did the right thing by them by being honest and telling them the whole circumstances of the offer.
However, I know that if It were me, and I found out later the circumstances of my acceptance, I would have felt used and betrayed.
So is racial discrimination not illegal any more? Or was it not illegal in the first place?
I think you did the right thing. To feel betrayed after one found out is the only reasonable response.
You could have added that is a lucky opportunity, regardless of the corrupt reason behind it. Just an idea.
Peter Rumsby U did the right thing!! Racial discrimination (positive) in this case, undermines the true capability. I must say the students had spine! Good for them
I think you did the wrong thing as you were projecting your own feelings onto them, so instead of being happy about being accepted into such a prestigious school. They would always know that they only got in on the basis of their race, because you told them that in advance. If that had got in, you had already cheapened their victory.
'Say what you like about ISIS, but at least you cant accuse them of Islamaphobis '.
Titania McGrath
Not true. There's a widespread conspiracy theory about ISIS being CIA/Mossad-funded in order to spread discord within Islam.
Within any zealot group like ISIS it's important to them at least not just that you are a member of their group idealogy, it has to be the right flavor of that ideology. Sunni, Shia, Yazidi, Suffi, etc. They are just as happy to kill them as they are white Infidels.
@@RR-qk9zu Yazidis aren't Muslims...
@300bpm Didn't say I believed it.
@@bluemouth8066 thats not why the CIA funded them, it was to destabilize the region to put puppet governments in charge of the natural resources. It regime change tactics.
Very grateful for these guys
Interesting point about sense of humour: When I was a raving looney fundamentalist christian back in the day, I had no sense of humour as well. Everything was either "the truth" or a threat. There are many other indistinguishable tropes between fundamentalist religion and "wokeness" as well.
Very clever point!!
I'm a Christian and I have a great sense of humour. 😀 One needs it to survive nowadays. Andrew Murray and Jordan Petersen are brilliant spokesmen for our time!!
I hope you have attained a sense of humour and retained your faith . Remember Christ liked wine and parties.
@@dulls8475 Exactly. Jesus didn't need the tribal markers nor the pious substitutes for loving God and neighbour.
Future generations will deride this period in history ua-cam.com/video/QYgMGN0Ebp0/v-deo.html
I love both of you dearly. I am a teacher in the U.S. and we are constantly asked to believe what we know to be untrue - and it is wearing on me and my colleagues. Please continue your work. We need you!
If you are teaching people lies you are harming them. You are in essence no longer teaching but spewing propaganda. Time to find a new job and make sure the admin knows why and tell them to go fuck themselves.
3 years later, it hasn't changed but gotten worse!
@@chrisreynoldsartwork It is changing I have teens in my appointments that say that all of the class is tired of the woke weirdo.
A great conversation. It gives me hope in the midst of the madness.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!"
-Isaiah 5 20-21
To have these two minds in discussion is a salvation among all the miasma currently obfuscating reason around these subjects. Two of the most important voices we have.
"If you are interested in taboos and dogmas, and if you are for whatever reason wired not to mind treading on them, this is a great time to be alive. Dogmas and orthodoxies tell you so much about the time you are living in. It's like living archeology. You see everything about what is actually going on in our society by looking at the things that you aren't meant to talk about. " - Douglas Murray
I've been in a biology department these last 9 yrs, working and as a student.
I'm awaiting my Viva voce, I know that if I say things like - men can't have babies, or there is no place for equality of outcome - everything should be based on merit.
If I say that I'm doomed as regards future job prospects.
It's a Biology department!
I don't usually comment on the internet, but can I also urge you, as suggested above, to record everything. Think clearly and calmly and stick to your guns. Do not allow yourself to become flustered or angry. Tell the truth. If they criticise you for that, then you will have recorded evidence to share. I really do think that we've arrived at the point that we, as sensible, usually quiet individuals, find our voices. This is no longer acceptable. It is degrading and unpleasant and I will not allow my children to grow up in this sort of environment.
What kind of biology is being taught?
@@Lebowski53 I might add that whilst I am mute, mentally ill and have never commented on anything before; and even though there is no visual evidence of me whatsoever (other than some 70's documentary about Cuckoos apparently) - I think now,, , on my deathbed , I must add to this by speaking my truth and finally saying ... . "no comment"
I would find somewhere else to work
@@Lebowski53 yes I agree we have to speak out, we can't self censor, like an open prison where we lock ourselves in at night.
Watching in June 2020. This is such an important conversation. Hope more people are discussing the same issues.
Just brilliant. Unless we stand up to nonesense, the nonesense just get more and more and more absurd.
"They keep nodding their head no matter what we do, let's force them to eat their own shit"
nonsense
As we are now seeing.
@@krsnadasschleusener3367 don't be the person who points out typos in UA-cam comments... literally nobody likes that person. Come on... you're better than that.
Ingsoc! Not only will Orwell's "1984" make sense, but Molière's "Tartuffe" and Swift's "A Modest Proposal" as well.
A fascinating discussion. It is always a pleasure to listen to reasoned, intelligent discussion. Thank you so much for uploading the video.
I don't understand what they are saying, but it sounds good with a British accent.
this was a set up piece i heard to many key words and the agenda became palpable
otherwise i would of said it was two people trying to make sense of something made from nonsense
@Bobby Sternlicht It's truly amazing that for the last 4 years these two guys have been tilting at the same windmills, and fans lap it up without getting tired of it all.
We are living in the world of The Emperor’s New Clothes
oh the cloak of BS
It's touching how much Andrew loves Douglas. I hope someone looks at me the way he looks at him one day.
It's April 2024 now. Only just come across this video, sadly. What a superb discourse. Douglas' thought processes on this whole subject are extraordinary. Thank you gentlemen, not just food for thought - a Michelin 3 star dining experience for the mind.
Excellent discussion. Thank you Douglas and Andrew!
“For God’s sake let’s don’t spend any of our lives doing this.” I just love that quiet, calm but deeply emphatic statement.
What Douglas said about “over correction” is *EXACTLY* what’s going on.
Yeah . We forgot where the path was meant to lead: a world with the best possible end result for everone in society
Immense respect for these guys. Very grateful for their efforts in challenging these things, courage so desperately needed at this moment in time.
they love the 'dog whistle'
"always forgetting that when you hear the whistle you're the dog"
LOVE IT!
Douglas Murray has one of my favorite voices of all time. His voice and cadence reminds me of Sir Winston Churchill when he was relaxed, not giving a speech. Keep up the great work guys!
Murray’s train analogy of the situation is bang on, the train was pulling into the station of equality and then sped up down the tracks to authoritarian ideology.
It’s a very comfortable white, middle class perception.
mytmouse57 no it’s accurate this country has never been so tolerant same for most of the “western” world, go back 30 years and you will see the difference in how gay men and women, trans people, ethnic minorities and women were treated in both society in general and on the media. Over the last few decades things have become far more tolerant and let’s be honest things in the 30-50 year old past were still better than the treatment shown to such minorities in many countries around today outside the “western” world where gays are thrown of the top of buildings and women are kept as house and sex slaves. The people who complain about this have serious problems but they are internal not societal either they have no sense of humour which is a very important part of “western” adhesion (because it allows us to laugh not only at others but at ourselves which is a vitally important part of personal growth), or they have no concept of true oppression because if they did they would not be whining so much.
mytmouse57 Are you white?
GUTHRIE #1 I am Caucasian if that is what you mean, not that I understand what that has to do with it.
Abigail Slade I’m speaking to mytmouse57
Two of my favourite speakers and thinkers. Been following Douglas Murray for more than a decade now, and just got on to Andrew Doyle about a year ago. They compliment each other perfectly, explain and expand upon their ideas in such clear, concise and enjoyable ways, and are just important voices to listen to these days.
❤❤❤
Douglas, your term "overcorrection" has been on the tip of my tongue when describing what is going on these days...thank you for giving me the word to explain this craziness!
Imagine Hitchens and Murray joining forces against the identity lunacy. They would have been unstoppable.
God I miss Hitchens (pun intended).
OddityDK yes, Hitchens was a HUGE loss for people who use their own brain to think. And I mean really huge. It’s not easy to find great intellectuals with fantastic sense of humour and a granitic will to not give up against the armies of brainwashed humans
A G
Nope, his was indeed “A beautiful Mind”.
Such a shame he died when he did. The way social media has taken off and influences everything now, his reach and impact would have been so much greater.
I would have loved to hear him Hitchslapping AOC, Corbyn, Antifa etc.
Hitchens would have steamrollered Murray.
happily eggs
Why? They would have been allies.
@@OddityDK Hitchens may have similar views, but I know he wouldn't have liked the religious Mr Murray.
Bless you guys for a voice of reason in an insane world.
Wow and wow again. This is one of the best discussions I've ever had the pleasure of finding on YT. Where else on the MSM might you have heard this I wonder.
In the University of Bath, there is a young Electrical Engineer, whose 'pure-science' Professor has just fired him, because "a member of the public" complained about the Engineer's website, which is knowledgeably critical of Islam. So, unlike the situation where the 'scientist' Galileo, had to defend science against the metaphysics of the Church, here we have a 'pure Scientist' defending intolerant metaphysics, against reason and argument!
Link to the website?
It's ok to be Christianophobe but it's not okay to be islamophobe. Why? Well, apparently they forget how many people of color are Christians too lol.
Do you have a link?
@@andrewoliver8930 My young friend has decided not to pursue the matter; but - as he is a member of 'FOR BRITAIN' - I think there will be some publicity in the near future. I know he was interviewed by Anne Marie Waters on the 'FOR BRITAIN' website; in the Members' section.
@@Mark_Dyer1 It depends what it said and what context, as with all things.
Galileo was ostracized because the church didn't like the science as it contravened the bible teachings.
Not because he wrote an opinion on Christianity.
I am watching this, while studying education to be a teacher. Right now I am questioning my job choice. No one knows how thing will be in like 6 to 8 years and I couldnt imagine dealing with stuff like this on a daily basis, while not being able to state my own opinion and views.
Douglas Murray is a fantastic speaker. Could listen to him all day.
He narrates 'The Madness of Crowds' on audible. I love listening to him.
Excellent conversation, honest & enlightening!...
What I wouldn't have done to have been in the audience whilst these two heroes of mine were on stage. Great video guys. 🥰🥰
They have a tour together now!
If you have a hero, look again. You have diminished yourself in some way.
@@RexOrwell You're stunning and brave for noting that..
I love this conversation. It's so serious but yet so fun.
Every time I start to feel the pressure and doubt myself I come back to Douglas Murray and he puts me back on track.
I love British humor, these guys are awesome. Intelligence & humor go well together.
Thanks. You're providing a rational, intelligent and accurate account of destructive times. There's many people sitting in silence who totally agree with you.
Douglas Murray is a real gentleman.
As a girl I was a "tomboy," many of my girlfriends were tomboys. In those days men had more interesting careers ahead of them than girls - girls were destined for marriage and kids. I read adventure stories and fully identified with the male heroes. I didn't think there was anything wrong with that. I thought I was reading about humans, rather than men per se. I believed (quite rightly, it turned out) that if I worked hard, I would be able to have a career, a job, money, be independent, be everything I want to be and do everything I wanted to do. Nevertheless, I often sighed to my mom, as did many other girls "I wish I was a boy." God forbid that someone should have marched me off to the surgeon for radical surgery and hormone treatment. Yikes and eek! I shudder at what they are doing to young children these days. primary school children!!! The age when kids still come home with tales of seeing a lion in the schoolyard! Yikes!
How old are you-70? I'm 55 and girls in my year freely did whatever careers they wanted to (if they qualified etc). And gee surprise surprise girls were 'destined for marriage and kids'-only the most important job for sustaining the species. Men had to go out and work in mines, factories etc while women stayed in the comfort of home all day. It's coincidentally only since working conditions have become so much better that women suddenly want to go out and work.Go and do it-who cares? (Except the species).
I just downloaded 2 sex changes off amazon for my kids just now. Bargain
@@huh3721 Link? XD
@@rogerpattube So women who do not want to be wives or mothers should what? Be forced into it or starve? Because what you are suggesting is taking away womens ability to earn a living wage.
I do not want to live in such a society that has women chained to husbands and children and home life. I lived that life and then escaped it. Now many years later I am the bread winner of my household while my current fiance is at home. Though there is equality because he has his own investments and does freelance art. So neither of us has any power over the other.
I am much happier this way.
Roger Patterson, I'm 65. Ten years difference. But then I was probably also on a different continent from you. Also, each life is different. Each family suffers in its own way. As a kid my father saw I was bright, he was proud of my straight As and encouraged me. Together we dreamt of a brilliant future. Then my mother died (I was 14), and my father married a psychopath. Long story short, she convinced him it would be very bad for me to go to university: "your child" would fall in with radicals (daily news of terrible scenes of rioting on campuses), sleep with black men, etc. I applied for one bursary after the other, until a teacher said: "But you already HAVE a bursary, dear." Turns out the psycho-wife had worked my father's fears into a frenzy ("after all,: see how that child went behind your back to get to uni without you") and it was better not to even say anything about it to "that child," which is why in my ignorance I kept applying and it came out (blush-blush) they'd forgotten to return the money. So I only doubled down on my determination, because, unless I pushed though until I got a good education and career, I would always be at the mercy of bullies. And point number two: all my suffering had been caused by a woman. Workplace sexual harassment were a bit of a joke (even a boss who locked me in his office and took off his clothes), compared to the hard row of getting a toe-hold on a fairly decent life despite the female who thought she was in competition with me for my father's affections. How that woman made him suffer, is another story.
I'm entering into my mid 40s now and I'm eternally thankful of the younger generation being the way they are to stop me going through a mid life crisis. Remember how fun student life used to be in the 90s before they all became fun bereft, pontificating, fist pumping little activists?!
Don’t forget the early 90s dance non phone era we enjoyed
You know that guy who never offends anyone? He gets soooooo much pussy!
That's a Sam Hyde joke.
Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation! Thanks to you both for addressing the accepted craziness of our age.
Douglas sharp as always. Never heard of Andrew... But love him already. Funny and engaging
Andrew is co writer of Jonathan Pie and sole writer of the Titania McGrath Twitter account and now a book.
His comedy is on YT
I am so rapt to see these two together discussing this isssue. What a treat!
Douglas’ final speech was breathtaking
thanks for sticking your heads over the parapet. you're both helping to resist the crazy that could destroy the greatest socities humans have created.
I would listen to Douglas over Owen Jones everyday.
I’d love to see Douglas Murray over Owen Jones...
I regard Owen Jones as the kind of condition that requires medical attention post-exposure.
Problembeing , I am deeply offended and triggered.
Cloudy Before Rain the sound of scraping would be like shaving barnacles off a ship.
undefined freedom *walks off the internet*
Douglas' final statement is exactly what makes me so frustrated. We are waisting our time on identity politics. It's giving other people free reign to do as they like without the rest of society questioning it. I look at technology and how fast it's going as the perfect example. We hardly even take the time to ask the simple question. "Just because we can, does it mean we should?"
so right. the environment crisis AI medical interventions surveilence . the world around us is changing at breakneck speed and the focus in on what colour you are or how you define your sexuality. How I wish the woke would wake up.
That’s very Ian Malcolm of you. But I agree. Just because we can do it doesn’t mean we should.
Free rein*
And the Devil whispered into the ear of Julius Caesar, "Divide and Conquer". He offers the same strategy today. Identity politics.
... so... if you won't-don't, shan't'-can't, excuse nievety & ignorance, you're pre-emptivly & posthumously forgiven; but, a "politician" isn't ONLY just a paid-professional-practicioner of identity politics...
@@pereraddison932 I see your point. I am nieve and foolishly presumptuous to hope that politicians will act in favour of the 'people' and not themselves. Still, I hope to think different about Trump. If he wanted to care only for himself and his own, would he have taken on this miserable task of being president of the USA? He had it pretty good already. He did not need to do this unless he was motivated for the greater good of his country.
Never care that whites are being replaced in their own lands. That's racist and evil.
Fucking tripe. You cock.
....like JC was the first man to do that...
Thank you for being voices of reason in these benighted, identitarian times.
This is totally, incredibly, massively brilliant and I am rejoicing that someone has the bravery and wisdom to voice what I am feeling but have not been able to articulate. THANK YOU!
Please keep doing what you are doing - you will get tired but the conversation needs to keep going !
This message needs to be spread far and wide in the U.S. Wonderful discussion!
Great discussion from two of my favourite ‘commentators’. Also, some valuable comments from audience members afterwards. I hope it is true that the pushback against this awful Woke madness is gaining momentum, there are so many better things for us to spend our lives doing & thinking about.
Fantastic discussion. Thank god for Douglas.
listened to this TWICE while working to make sure I had digested all of it. Such common sense. "Even the gestapo let that go". utterly brilliant analogy to highlight the overzealous woke crowd who can't see their own hypocrisy.
I think Douglas Murray and Jordan Peterson are the only celebrities who I will be genuinely and sincerely saddened by when they die, whatever age I may be.
How about Thomas Sowell?
Nigel Farage, Peter Hitchens.
@@sydneykendall7125 who is he?
@@fionagregory8078 Thanks for asking!
Thomas Sowell is a brilliant economist and social theorist who has been extremely prolific. I have been reading his works for decades and love him so much. He about 90 now and I dread the day he's not in this world anymore.
Here is his website: www.tsowell.com/
Future generations will rightly deride this period in history ua-cam.com/video/QYgMGN0Ebp0/v-deo.html
You know you're an intelligent, well-spoken, logical, beautiful person when you get death threats from the liberals. That's a sign that you are successful. Regardless, I'm so sorry Douglas Murray is having to deal with that. I hope he knows how many people support him.
Excellent conversation. Thanks.
Videographer: excellent production.
What Murray said about forgiveness at the end - that's the KEY.
I discovered Titiania McGrath today. I ended up here after searching Andrew Doyle. So critical to be able to discuss these issues. Thanks so much for posting ❤️😍😍😍
Future generations will rightly deride this period in history ua-cam.com/video/QYgMGN0Ebp0/v-deo.html
"They create something and then pretend it's a figment of your imagination."
_That_ is one of the things I hate so much about the media and people who buy into their lies, the constant gas-lighting.
The insights Murray has....👏👏👏👏👏
I believe I would have stood and applauded Douglas Murray for his closing statement alone.
A very educative discussion between two interesting, engaged, witty and, perhaps most importantly, humane people.
Thank you to both.
Both are brilliant! Douglas's closing statement hit the nail on the head for me. Thank you!
Originally feminism was about not wanting to be defined solely by your ‘identity’ . I remember it well. It was what I wanted.
These modern feminists have so taken the wrong path.
Thats because they won. It got as good as it was going to get for the time being. Natural progression would have completed the journey, but where did that put the feminists who are full if natural hatred? Nowhere. So they invented lies to rekindle the inferno.
We need to have a conversation about the medical consequences of the treatments that are being given for transitions. We need a campaign so that people know the possible consequences of transitioning.
Not to mention the psychological consequences a few years down the track when they realise they made a mistake.
Thank goodness that there are now erudite and sensible voices pushing back publicly on all the woke nonsense. Please keep it up!
Things can't be left only to them. Folk have to stand their ground, simply not to be intimidated and pushed around. Over history coercion of various kinds, not always physical, have been used to force people into submitting to an ideology with which they do not, often deeply, agree with. There are ways to resist tyranny - which doesn't always come from governments.
So much content in one hour 👍
Again, Douglas pulls out the stops at the end of a talk and shows his moral passion and care. Why it's important that we get this right and that perhaps we can.
To prove their point about totalitarians and tyrants, humor/satire is the first thing targeted. See examples in history, people who satirized ruthless rulers were shamed, jailed, or killed.
Thank you Andrew! We need more people like you!
Well said, what two formidable great men and great minds! Thank you Douglas and Andrew!
The question section of this reminds me of the New Yorker cartoon: We'd now like to open the floor to shorter speeches disguised as questions.
Q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ There is only 1 Gender - Lesbian. ,̶?̶
many werent even disguised, just straight up opinions.
My question was totally a question. 😇
It isn't even that bad here...Jordan Peterson gets ridiculously indulgent people going on minutes long tirades regarding their own hypotheses or refutations of his position(s) with no practical reasons given for their opposition.
@@FacelessProjects It was! You were awesome. Funny too.
I find that increasing numbers of people are declaring themselves politically incorrect.
Yes it's a pleasure listening to Doug's gorgeous descriptive words and fabulous mind!
A beautiful, passionate, and stirring ending courtesy of Mr. Murray. He is so correct in his estimation of the "opportunity cost" of identity politics and social media navel gazing. Bravo.