It's weird, but remember that both Sandy and Pigsy were celestial generals, back when who was general was decided by "the guy who can kick the most ass" And then Sandy dropped a vase and they told Pigsy that sexual harassment wasn't cool
For that Pigsy is.....well, Pigsy, it's worth remembering that he was once titled Marshal Canopy, a general in command of 80,000 celestial soldiers and a powerful warrior in his own rights. It's just that he's standing next to Sun Wukong and so is comparatively useless, same as Sandy, the Horse, and especially Xuanzang.
In the translation I read, it specified that the gold and silver brothers stole the treasures when they were children and the fox demon adopted them. Of course, that could just be the translator's attempt to fix a noticeable plot hole.
Glad you finally went back and saw Xuanzang's backstory. It makes everything make a lot more sense. Also, I don't know who's more stupid, Pigsy for constantly outing Sun Wukong while he's escaping or in disguise, or the Demon Brother's for letting him in when he wasn't disguised. *Twice.*
23:07 note: in the book, Tripitaka’s disciples are often referred to by any of their titles and by-names basically interchangeably. Wukong is referred to simply as “Pilgrim” about as often as he’s referred to as “sun Wukong”
about the Horse: damage to tail = HP-loss = still there after shapeshifted from what I read the story is based on a real journey by a Monk to get the original Buddhist scrolls, because the translated versions in China were utterly bad. He did that in an era where it was dangerous to leave your hometown and even forbidden to leave China (Emperor's decree) Over mountains, steppes and deserts. For hundreds if not thousands of miles. And he pulled it of.
the reason all the demons wanna eat tripataka is because he's the reincarnation of golden cicada the disciple of Buddha and eating him would make them immortal because he's divine. the same way that eating those heavenly peaches made wukong immortal.
Btw, the Golden and Silver Demons are the inspirations for the 'Gold and Silver Brothers' Kinkaku and Ginkaku from Naruto, in case their design and artifacts didn't make it obvious.
On the question of whether Pigsy or the Dragon Horse is more useful I would ask this: Would you rather have a teammate who does helpful things sometimes and massively screws up other times, or a teammate who doesn't do much to help but never does any harm? Personally I would rather have someone who is consistently reliable, even if they don't do much, than someone who is a gamble whether they'll help or hurt, but that's just my preference.
I love how wukong was a major pain in the ass to everybody but they all seem very friendly and cooperative. I mean a part might be that they just want to keep the emotionaly immortal monkey god happy but even then I'd say just calling the jade emperor like it's nothing and asking such a giant favor is a stretch. So he must have at least some charisma and maybe they even enjoy all his hijinks a bit because it makes heaven less boring. That's at least my guess.
The fact that he's been roped into carrying out a massive task for _Buddha himself_ and is effectively on the road to redemption probably has something to do with it as well.
Technically not. The actual definition of a "Mary Sue" (as supported by OSP's video on it, coincidentally) is a character where the world shifts around them. Other characters act differently them they are supposed to, and the rules always bend favor them, despite the world's previous logic. Overpowered characters are not necessarily Mary Sues, despite Sues sometimes having ridiculous powerful abilities. Saitama from. One Punch Man is a great example of an overpowered character that isn't a Mary Sue. If they actually experience character development, then they aren't a true Mary Sue
The Tang Emperor is the emperor of the Tang Dynasty, which is hundreds of years before the publication of the Journey to the West, which happened under the Ming Dynasty. It’s also based on preexisting folk stories, and published anonymously. Author wasn’t executed for writing it.
One have to remember that Pigsy and Sandy are still CELESTIAL WARRIORS to some extent. They are supremely powerful and had Monkey not been around they would be the power houses of the story.
Actually, the three treasures that Hiei, Kurama and one shot villain stole are based on the three Sacred Treasures of Japan: the sword Kusanagi, the mirror Yama no Kagami and the jewel Yasakani no Magatama. Red has a video about Kusanagi if you’re curious.
1:30 Correct, 2:14 is his name before taking on the pilgrimage 9:41 Paraphrasing of why the Bone demon wanted to eat him 11:49 It is a common thing for many mystical beings in Chinese mythology. 11:55 Yeah don’t think too much about it. 15:51 Not really 27:17 pseudo Shadow-clone logic 28:23 Not really… 30:50 They weren’t stripped of their divinity
About those mountains Wukong was pinned under, one was Sumeru, which represented the axis of the universe, the second was Emei, from which it was said that Buddhism itself spread from, and the third was Mount Tai, which represented the heaviest object in Chinese comprehension. He was still running really fast with the first two on his shoulders, where as the third is what finally pinned him.
@eduardo muñoz Yup. And that's before he achieved Buddhahood. Of course, you need to keep in mind that The Journey to the West is largely allegorical and symbolic. Monkey could have easily made the journey much shorter if he just remembered all the ridiculous powers he had, but that isn't really the point of the narrative Wu Cheng'en was writing.
5:00 No, he's not a Mary Sue. Being a Mary Sue requires 2 things, being capable of solving any problem, and being loved by everyone, even your enemies. The universe of a story revolves around the Mary Sue. While there are some unexplained bits of the writing that arbitrate the specific circumstances of the journey happening with these characters specifically, it's not to their favor, and none of them can solve every problem. Instead, Xuan Zang is the Damsel In Distress trope most of the time. He often serves as little else than the reason the other characters get into conflict with enemies, and the living mcguffin they have to get back.
Ok so what I think is going with Sandy and Pigsy is *they can all shapeshift, every single one of them minus Tripitaka* but they have a base-form of sorts, wukongs being his usual monkey form, sandy being the fish-demon-thing and pigsy being a pig-demon.
Technically speaking, Sandy was not even a water demon, but a sand demon. He just happened to be cursed to live in a river since the Jade Emperor sent him blades that will forever try to stab him on sight
Also, technically, since this is a chinese novel, that demon mother was not a Kitsune. But a Huli Jing instead, which is basically the original form of the multi-tailed fox spirit legends in Eastern Asia. The Japanese Kitsune, the Korean Kumiho, both are derived from the Chinese legends on the Huli Jing. So basically, you were half-right, half-wrong. The cultural background of the story means that the proper term for that demon mother would be Huli Jing, but Kitsune are basically the Japanese regional variant on the legend of the Huli Jing so you were not too far off either.
20:30 I don't necessarily think that that pose was exclusive to Sailor Moon. It's similar to the "peace" gesture, as well as appearing in various, non-magical girl anime
While often called "peace" it also stands for V for Victory. Pretty sure the original source is English longbowmen in Hundred Years Wars, where French were cutting the index finger and middle finger of the longbowmen they captured so that they could no longer draw their bows. The Englishmen made the gesture as a taunt in the spirit of "come and take it". I think tradition of using the middle finger as an insult might have originated there too.
@@gokbay3057 I think the original gesture wasn't just the index and middle finger but showing the thumb too since all three were needed to draw and hold the arrow.
Just putting this out there. Journey to the West was published in 1592, so not as old as you’re thinking. The story takes place thousands of years ago, but the author was just a little over 500 years ago.
Thanks for this reaction. Someone in the original's comments explained that, because the duplicates are made from Monkey's hairs, if they get burned up he'll have a big bald spot; ... so that's why he was afraid of the fire. If shape shifting and flight are basic demon powers, it seems likely that their restrains will have counters to that in mind. (Also, actual demons, or the equivalent of of yokai?)
I believe Yōkai might be inspired by Yaoguai,which is what the Chinese actually call these 'strange creatures' instead of 'demons'.Same way the Japanese don't consider Yōkai as demons,but cryptids. Another thing to consider: Japanese Tengu is inspired by Chinese Tiangou and Ryujin is probably also inspired by Chinese dragon kings. Also,thanks for simplifying the explanation for the fur thingy in a simpler language lol.I actually read it but I don't understand what the guy was saying.
I don't know if I'd call Tripitaka a Mary Sue, considering you'd have to be, ya know OP, and he gets kidnapped more than anyone else in this story, dude literally has to have 5 body guards with him at all times so he doesn't die.
My argument in favor of the Dragon Horse being more usefull is that he doesn't constantly get everybody in deep shit and/or get them in even deeper shit , unlike a certain Piggy
4:57 Neither of them is a Mary Sue. The one guy always needs to be rescued. And the other guy is extremly impulsive and doesn't think for two seconds something might be a trap. A Mary Sue is someone without any real flaws and if they make mistakes it's mostly a mistake caused because someone else did something stupid.
Рік тому+2
About upstaging the emperor - the book was written in the 16th century during the Ming dynasty, but it's set in the 7th century during the Tang dynasty. Talking smack about the previous dynasties is a time-honoured tradition (in the west, none other than William Shaxberd [also known as William Shakespere {also known as William Shakespeare}] got in on the fun).
The reason why the Bodhisattva Guanyin has those many hands, is because she is basically the genderbent chinese equivalent to the Bodhisattva Avalokitasvara. I am too lazy to paraphrase, but the reason for that depiction with multiple arms is because of the legend of Thousand-Armed Avalokitasvara, which I will just copy and paste from Wikipedia because I am too lazy to paraphrase it and it summarizes it relatively well: "One prominent Buddhist story tells of Avalokiteśvara vowing never to rest until he had freed all sentient beings from saṃsāra. Despite strenuous effort, he realizes that many unhappy beings were yet to be saved. After struggling to comprehend the needs of so many, his head splits into eleven pieces. Amitābha, seeing his plight, gives him eleven heads with which to hear the cries of the suffering. Upon hearing these cries and comprehending them, Avalokiteśvara tries to reach out to all those who needed aid, but found that his two arms shattered into pieces. Once more, Amitābha comes to his aid and invests him with a thousand arms with which to aid the suffering multitudes." So basically, those arms are meant to represent the means with which Guanyin can aid the suffering masses.
You seem to have gotten confused around 23:19. Monkey's not pretending to be the monkey king. Red said that he introduced himself as "Grimple Sun, *brother to* pilgrim Sun, the Monkey King". He's pretending to be the *brother* of the monkey king (who, keep in mind, the two demons believe they still have captured).
Basically, almost all of the demons in the story have the ability to do whatever. And because tripitaka is a weak and powerless human, he can't do any of these things such as flying or shapeshifting. Essentially this whole journy is pretty much just entertainment for the gods who were wondering if a human (albeit if they were hand holded by the gods for the journey) could survive the journey to the west.
'a Kitsune' That's actually only the japanese version of a 9 tailed fox. There are different names for them. I think she was rather a Huli Jing than a Kitsune, but i'd need to read up on that now. It just kinda bothers me that when people see a fox spirit, they go 'oh kitsune'.
So some of those artifacts actually do show up in the original Dragon Ball.. especially the Gourd that can suck souls inside, but instead of demon brothers, it's just two bandits who took over a whole village.
Ok, so, Tripitaka is the "Mary Sue", the passive one who is supposedly perfect and can do no wrong and gets out of things by the skin of their teeth etc etc, while Wukong is more a "Gary Stu", a more active counterpoint to the Mary Sue who is super powerful and stuff and can fight and defeat everyone they challenge, etc.
4:37 I don't think he's a TRUE Mary Sue; a Mary Sue has their powers or skills without ANY reason at all, INCLUDING lineage. Closest I can think of would be Wesley Crusher from Season 1 of Star Trek: The Next Generation. There was NO reason why he should have been able to solve the problems the ship and crew were undergoing, as there was no reason to think him a genius; he just WAS. Tripitaka, at least, has lineage on his side, as well as his training in the monastic arts. If anyone in the comments reads this, and can refute me, please do so; I wouldn't mind learning something.
in the legends it seems that sun wu kong hair clones/duplicates are known to be basically like him hard to kill but like they have a time limit and the more damaged or hurt they get the quicker they will return to just hairs atleast that what i vaguely remember from the story
There is a tradition that when Siddhartha Gautama aka Shakyamuni (Sage of Shakya) Buddha first started preaching rival Brahmins (Vedic Priest) kept discredit him. The people were finally convinced when he was able to calm and have the animals of the Sacred Deer Grove listen to him following him around.
It’s strange, but I suddenly had a FLASH connection between Piggsy in this story, and a modern equivalent for “A character being used by the writer to drive the plot forward in the dumbest way possible, by making that character act like an incompetent raging jackass.” Modern equivalent to Piggsy? Holdo from Disney’s SW Trilogy, Episode 8. Because seriously, she’s a BAD damn character, and that movie could have been improved (SLIGHTLY improved😑) with 2 changes regarding her. 1. SHE was a First Order spy. Because then all of her actions ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE. 2. Her trick with the ship was an escape attempt to return to the first order, but the ship’s hyperdrive was damaged in a way that caused the subsequent destruction of the First Order fleet. An accident which could never be repeated, rather than a deliberate action which takes one of the few Hard Rules of the SW setting and craps all over it. …not sure why I went on a rant about SW in a video about Journey to the West but I blame my meds not kicking in yet.
Lmao I just looked up that the Golden Cicada was a disciple of the Buddha and was reincarnated as the monk who became known as Tripitaka as punishment by the Buddha himself because he let his mind wander during the Buddha’s preaching.😄😄😄
See, the thing about Pigsy is that he may be dumb, but he's actually really strong and battle savvy. Sun WuKong is the 1st brother. Pigsy the 2nd. And Sandy the 3rd. It's based on strength. I believe there's a whole playlist of a Chinese tv production of the Journey to the West. There's a lot of reading because of subtitles, but at least you aren't reading a 2000 page epic. lol
Nuke to a knife fight. That's Fallout when you get sick of the damn raiders taking swings at you. Also Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando in the early game.
the fan and the gourd did appear in naruto during the fourth shinobi war against ginkaku and kinkaku two shinobi who were eaten by kurama who then spit them out later gaining some of it's chakra allowing them to safely use them the gourd just like said suck the person but instead of name it's based on what is it they say on a habit which seals them inside. the fan if I remember correctly drain chakra of the enemy.
twice in the span of tonight ive passed out (Tonight being 4/17/23 for those watching in the future) and woken up mid-way through this video, due to where it is on my playlist so now time to watch it in full now that im actually....AWAKE
Not everyone can change their forms its just the more powerful beings can and some very strong demons. Also some can only change to certain different shapes but they also need the space.
Ok for accuracy sake and poor airer keeps correcting himself unnecessarily, son wu kong is the chinese name son goku is his Japanese name and goku in dbz was named after him and yes dbz is literally just a huge rip off of journey to the west.
Tripitaka _would_ be a Mary Sue, except for all his supposed awesomeness and super ultra powers he's really totally ineffective in general and so generally _un_ capable that in all honesty he's less a Mary Sue and more of a Macguffin Guy: Extremely super ultimately important and special for some arbitrary reason, but so totally useless and unhelpful that not only does the rest of the cast's _entire_ story revolve around defending his pacifist ass from people trying to kidnap and/or kill and eat him, but he causes regular and major conflict between himself and those trying to protect him by forcing _his own morality_ on his defenders even when it makes zero sense and is actively debilitating to his mission to do so. Just as an example Monkey has difficulties defeating the various enemies not because they are _stronger_ than he is, but because he has to figure out with his impulsively violent little monkey brain how to defeat them without summarily killing them immediately as would normally be the case, as per _Tripitaka's absolutely unbending orders._ He has generally no skill at this or at restraint in general, and so he starts off every single battle in front of Tripitaka by restraining his own power so much he can barely fight back for fear of accidentally offing his opponent, pissing Tripitaka off, and having a trip to Headpain Headband City. Except when Tripitaka would never know, in which case Monkey doesn't bother and deals with matters as amuses him most. This often means unhappily taking a major beating as he slowly ramps up the power to not miss that magic point of absolute complete defeat but not Tripitaka-enraging death... a fact that Tripitaka never acknowledges or bothers to care about despite supposedly caring about all living things. Especially since Monkey is _not_ a human, he is a monkey, and even Buddha acknowledges that deaths occur with animals and it is considered to be natural and proper, and Monkey's specific capability in this regard is the _very reason_ he was attached to this journey in the first place. Essentially, in a very un-buddhist-like way, Tripitaka is constantly causing poor Monkey far more pain and suffering than he needs to and rightfully _should,_ have to experience by forcing him to act in a way very unnatural to him... and is straight-up ignoring this _constantly_ like a hypocrite.
Honestly. With all his talk about the supposed tropes he found. Airier. Go and watch Trope Talk. On your own time probably since I doubt it would make good content 😊
It's weird, but remember that both Sandy and Pigsy were celestial generals, back when who was general was decided by "the guy who can kick the most ass"
And then Sandy dropped a vase and they told Pigsy that sexual harassment wasn't cool
Pigsy's biggest enemy is the HR department.
We really should have those People who did best in combat being generals would probably make things better
@@chaoticmoron-zl6nv How would this make anything better?
For that Pigsy is.....well, Pigsy, it's worth remembering that he was once titled Marshal Canopy, a general in command of 80,000 celestial soldiers and a powerful warrior in his own rights.
It's just that he's standing next to Sun Wukong and so is comparatively useless, same as Sandy, the Horse, and especially Xuanzang.
Don't forget he's selfish, lazy, and basically a way less noble pre-character development Polnareff in terms of chasing tail
@@H0r53f7y Yep. Pigsy fully embodies the 'skilled but lazy' trope.
Same vein as the Z Warriors next to Goku (and to a lesser extent Vegeta)
In the translation I read, it specified that the gold and silver brothers stole the treasures when they were children and the fox demon adopted them. Of course, that could just be the translator's attempt to fix a noticeable plot hole.
Glad you finally went back and saw Xuanzang's backstory. It makes everything make a lot more sense. Also, I don't know who's more stupid, Pigsy for constantly outing Sun Wukong while he's escaping or in disguise, or the Demon Brother's for letting him in when he wasn't disguised. *Twice.*
Definitely Pigsy.
@@watershipup7101 yep
What you mean to tell xuanzang's not a big titty oneesan in a bikini and martial arts master? Fate go how could you lie to me (joking btw)
23:07 note: in the book, Tripitaka’s disciples are often referred to by any of their titles and by-names basically interchangeably. Wukong is referred to simply as “Pilgrim” about as often as he’s referred to as “sun Wukong”
about the Horse:
damage to tail = HP-loss = still there after shapeshifted
from what I read the story is based on a real journey by a Monk to get the original Buddhist scrolls, because the translated versions in China were utterly bad.
He did that in an era where it was dangerous to leave your hometown and even forbidden to leave China (Emperor's decree)
Over mountains, steppes and deserts. For hundreds if not thousands of miles.
And he pulled it of.
The Budhist Badass.
And he did it all by himself!
@@MsPageMistress No, he had demon followers travelling with him all the away. Pay attention.
Culturel Note: a Kitzune is only in Japan.
The chinese Version is a Hulijing
the reason all the demons wanna eat tripataka is because he's the reincarnation of golden cicada the disciple of Buddha and eating him would make them immortal because he's divine. the same way that eating those heavenly peaches made wukong immortal.
Btw, the Golden and Silver Demons are the inspirations for the 'Gold and Silver Brothers' Kinkaku and Ginkaku from Naruto, in case their design and artifacts didn't make it obvious.
The gold and silver demons are the basis of basically every gold and silver pairing in Japanese media.
Yeah these two and their treasures get a _lot_ of expies.
When I hear about those two Gold and Silver imps there's only one thing I can think of:
The Team Rocket of Monkie Kid
@@ag-13studios51At this point I think they turn themselves to demons and be villains for fun
On the question of whether Pigsy or the Dragon Horse is more useful I would ask this: Would you rather have a teammate who does helpful things sometimes and massively screws up other times, or a teammate who doesn't do much to help but never does any harm? Personally I would rather have someone who is consistently reliable, even if they don't do much, than someone who is a gamble whether they'll help or hurt, but that's just my preference.
Yeah, at least the Dragon Horse provided Tripitaka a ride.
The horse has one job, and he’s *actually doing it!*
the horse at least doesnt constantly ruin everything out of stupidity
I love how wukong was a major pain in the ass to everybody but they all seem very friendly and cooperative. I mean a part might be that they just want to keep the emotionaly immortal monkey god happy but even then I'd say just calling the jade emperor like it's nothing and asking such a giant favor is a stretch. So he must have at least some charisma and maybe they even enjoy all his hijinks a bit because it makes heaven less boring. That's at least my guess.
The fact that he's been roped into carrying out a massive task for _Buddha himself_ and is effectively on the road to redemption probably has something to do with it as well.
In the case of 2 Mary Sue's competing it's a question of character growth
Technically not. The actual definition of a "Mary Sue" (as supported by OSP's video on it, coincidentally) is a character where the world shifts around them. Other characters act differently them they are supposed to, and the rules always bend favor them, despite the world's previous logic.
Overpowered characters are not necessarily Mary Sues, despite Sues sometimes having ridiculous powerful abilities. Saitama from.
One Punch Man is a great example of an overpowered character that isn't a Mary Sue.
If they actually experience character development, then they aren't a true Mary Sue
The Tang Emperor is the emperor of the Tang Dynasty, which is hundreds of years before the publication of the Journey to the West, which happened under the Ming Dynasty. It’s also based on preexisting folk stories, and published anonymously. Author wasn’t executed for writing it.
The whole point of Pigsy going to get Wukong and Scouting ahead is Divine Retribution for his Pigheadedness
Literally
The multi-tailed fox spirits in chinese mythology are not Kitsune, they are Huli Jing... which in some ways are more dangerous than the Kitsune.
Yup, Kitsune are tricksters you can't trust.
But Chinese Hulijing and Korean Gumiho tend to be more violent/evil compared to Kitsune.
One have to remember that Pigsy and Sandy are still CELESTIAL WARRIORS to some extent.
They are supremely powerful and had Monkey not been around they would be the power houses of the story.
Actually, the three treasures that Hiei, Kurama and one shot villain stole are based on the three Sacred Treasures of Japan: the sword Kusanagi, the mirror Yama no Kagami and the jewel Yasakani no Magatama. Red has a video about Kusanagi if you’re curious.
1:30 Correct, 2:14 is his name before taking on the pilgrimage
9:41 Paraphrasing of why the Bone demon wanted to eat him
11:49 It is a common thing for many mystical beings in Chinese mythology.
11:55 Yeah don’t think too much about it.
15:51 Not really
27:17 pseudo Shadow-clone logic
28:23 Not really…
30:50 They weren’t stripped of their divinity
27:17 if the clones are destroyed, his hair will be destroyed. He can growth it back but will be bald for a while.
About those mountains Wukong was pinned under, one was Sumeru, which represented the axis of the universe, the second was Emei, from which it was said that Buddhism itself spread from, and the third was Mount Tai, which represented the heaviest object in Chinese comprehension. He was still running really fast with the first two on his shoulders, where as the third is what finally pinned him.
...So, it takes the infinite weight of the universe, the origin of Buddhism and the heaviest thing in Chinese culture to just PIN the damn monkey?!
@eduardo muñoz Yup. And that's before he achieved Buddhahood. Of course, you need to keep in mind that The Journey to the West is largely allegorical and symbolic. Monkey could have easily made the journey much shorter if he just remembered all the ridiculous powers he had, but that isn't really the point of the narrative Wu Cheng'en was writing.
5:00 No, he's not a Mary Sue. Being a Mary Sue requires 2 things, being capable of solving any problem, and being loved by everyone, even your enemies. The universe of a story revolves around the Mary Sue. While there are some unexplained bits of the writing that arbitrate the specific circumstances of the journey happening with these characters specifically, it's not to their favor, and none of them can solve every problem. Instead, Xuan Zang is the Damsel In Distress trope most of the time. He often serves as little else than the reason the other characters get into conflict with enemies, and the living mcguffin they have to get back.
Ok so what I think is going with Sandy and Pigsy is *they can all shapeshift, every single one of them minus Tripitaka* but they have a base-form of sorts, wukongs being his usual monkey form, sandy being the fish-demon-thing and pigsy being a pig-demon.
Technically speaking, Sandy was not even a water demon, but a sand demon. He just happened to be cursed to live in a river since the Jade Emperor sent him blades that will forever try to stab him on sight
@@sonicanvaspost6867 bro turne into a crab lmao-
Also, technically, since this is a chinese novel, that demon mother was not a Kitsune. But a Huli Jing instead, which is basically the original form of the multi-tailed fox spirit legends in Eastern Asia. The Japanese Kitsune, the Korean Kumiho, both are derived from the Chinese legends on the Huli Jing.
So basically, you were half-right, half-wrong. The cultural background of the story means that the proper term for that demon mother would be Huli Jing, but Kitsune are basically the Japanese regional variant on the legend of the Huli Jing so you were not too far off either.
Re: Your question about Mary Sues, OverlySarcastic actually has a very good Trope Talk about that exact thing!
20:30 I don't necessarily think that that pose was exclusive to Sailor Moon. It's similar to the "peace" gesture, as well as appearing in various, non-magical girl anime
While often called "peace" it also stands for V for Victory.
Pretty sure the original source is English longbowmen in Hundred Years Wars, where French were cutting the index finger and middle finger of the longbowmen they captured so that they could no longer draw their bows. The Englishmen made the gesture as a taunt in the spirit of "come and take it".
I think tradition of using the middle finger as an insult might have originated there too.
@@gokbay3057 that is interesting.
@@gokbay3057 That "source" is a myth. There's no evidence that longbowmen were ever mutilated that way.
@@gokbay3057 I think the original gesture wasn't just the index and middle finger but showing the thumb too since all three were needed to draw and hold the arrow.
@@gokbay3057nope middle finger goes all the way to time of Julius Caesar
My brain is just immediately thinking that once hes done with this series. He needs to check out the pope fights
Was debating between that and trope talk.
There's a reason why I in some of my other mythology loving friends call The journey to the west, the father of all anime tropes😊
If you want a good definition of what a Mary Sue is, Red did a video on that under her Trope Talk series of videos.
Just putting this out there. Journey to the West was published in 1592, so not as old as you’re thinking. The story takes place thousands of years ago, but the author was just a little over 500 years ago.
What you're thinking about isn't mary sue, It's "the chosen one/damsel in distress" and "Crouching moron, hidden badass".
Hey, Red did videos on those as well!
Thanks for this reaction.
Someone in the original's comments explained that, because the duplicates are made from Monkey's hairs, if they get burned up he'll have a big bald spot; ... so that's why he was afraid of the fire. If shape shifting and flight are basic demon powers, it seems likely that their restrains will have counters to that in mind. (Also, actual demons, or the equivalent of of yokai?)
I believe Yōkai might be inspired by Yaoguai,which is what the Chinese actually call these 'strange creatures' instead of 'demons'.Same way the Japanese don't consider Yōkai as demons,but cryptids.
Another thing to consider: Japanese Tengu is inspired by Chinese Tiangou and Ryujin is probably also inspired by Chinese dragon kings.
Also,thanks for simplifying the explanation for the fur thingy in a simpler language lol.I actually read it but I don't understand what the guy was saying.
I don't know if I'd call Tripitaka a Mary Sue, considering you'd have to be, ya know OP, and he gets kidnapped more than anyone else in this story, dude literally has to have 5 body guards with him at all times so he doesn't die.
Even if the trope of two Mary Sues competing already has a name, I'm just going to call it "Mary Twos".
My argument in favor of the Dragon Horse being more usefull is that he doesn't constantly get everybody in deep shit and/or get them in even deeper shit , unlike a certain Piggy
You just wait for the later episodes, you'll love Sandy even more!
So that’s where Dragon Ball’s Mafuba / “EVIL CONTAINMENT WAVE” came from. Also that explains the Bansho Fan too.
4:57
Neither of them is a Mary Sue.
The one guy always needs to be rescued.
And the other guy is extremly impulsive and doesn't think for two seconds something might be a trap.
A Mary Sue is someone without any real flaws and if they make mistakes it's mostly a mistake caused because someone else did something stupid.
About upstaging the emperor - the book was written in the 16th century during the Ming dynasty, but it's set in the 7th century during the Tang dynasty. Talking smack about the previous dynasties is a time-honoured tradition (in the west, none other than William Shaxberd [also known as William Shakespere {also known as William Shakespeare}] got in on the fun).
The reason why the Bodhisattva Guanyin has those many hands, is because she is basically the genderbent chinese equivalent to the Bodhisattva Avalokitasvara. I am too lazy to paraphrase, but the reason for that depiction with multiple arms is because of the legend of Thousand-Armed Avalokitasvara, which I will just copy and paste from Wikipedia because I am too lazy to paraphrase it and it summarizes it relatively well:
"One prominent Buddhist story tells of Avalokiteśvara vowing never to rest until he had freed all sentient beings from saṃsāra. Despite strenuous effort, he realizes that many unhappy beings were yet to be saved. After struggling to comprehend the needs of so many, his head splits into eleven pieces. Amitābha, seeing his plight, gives him eleven heads with which to hear the cries of the suffering. Upon hearing these cries and comprehending them, Avalokiteśvara tries to reach out to all those who needed aid, but found that his two arms shattered into pieces. Once more, Amitābha comes to his aid and invests him with a thousand arms with which to aid the suffering multitudes."
So basically, those arms are meant to represent the means with which Guanyin can aid the suffering masses.
And that's Guanyin's name is sometimes translated as "goddess of mercy".
You seem to have gotten confused around 23:19. Monkey's not pretending to be the monkey king. Red said that he introduced himself as "Grimple Sun, *brother to* pilgrim Sun, the Monkey King". He's pretending to be the *brother* of the monkey king (who, keep in mind, the two demons believe they still have captured).
Basically, almost all of the demons in the story have the ability to do whatever.
And because tripitaka is a weak and powerless human, he can't do any of these things such as flying or shapeshifting.
Essentially this whole journy is pretty much just entertainment for the gods who were wondering if a human (albeit if they were hand holded by the gods for the journey) could survive the journey to the west.
no matter how many times I watch this series I always love it when they put Inuyasha music in during the fights like at 28:46
'a Kitsune'
That's actually only the japanese version of a 9 tailed fox. There are different names for them. I think she was rather a Huli Jing than a Kitsune, but i'd need to read up on that now. It just kinda bothers me that when people see a fox spirit, they go 'oh kitsune'.
So some of those artifacts actually do show up in the original Dragon Ball.. especially the Gourd that can suck souls inside, but instead of demon brothers, it's just two bandits who took over a whole village.
All of the Not Human characters can shapeshift yeah
I just realized, the horse is the Yamcha of the party.
funny thing is Yamcha is Sandy. Puar the Cat is the horse analogue. Bulma the monk.
Nah, Sandy is. The Horse is more the Puar of the Group.
Technically and unfortunatly Yamcha is the analoge to Sandy, the bad ass sand river demon.
As people have said, Yamcha is Sandy. What is Yamcha initially? A desert bandit. I think the connection is clear cut.
Ok, so, Tripitaka is the "Mary Sue", the passive one who is supposedly perfect and can do no wrong and gets out of things by the skin of their teeth etc etc, while Wukong is more a "Gary Stu", a more active counterpoint to the Mary Sue who is super powerful and stuff and can fight and defeat everyone they challenge, etc.
4:37 I don't think he's a TRUE Mary Sue; a Mary Sue has their powers or skills without ANY reason at all, INCLUDING lineage. Closest I can think of would be Wesley Crusher from Season 1 of Star Trek: The Next Generation. There was NO reason why he should have been able to solve the problems the ship and crew were undergoing, as there was no reason to think him a genius; he just WAS. Tripitaka, at least, has lineage on his side, as well as his training in the monastic arts.
If anyone in the comments reads this, and can refute me, please do so; I wouldn't mind learning something.
in the legends it seems that sun wu kong hair clones/duplicates are known to be basically like him hard to kill but like they have a time limit and the more damaged or hurt they get the quicker they will return to just hairs atleast that what i vaguely remember from the story
13:30- Your memory is astonishingly bad.
There is a tradition that when Siddhartha Gautama aka Shakyamuni (Sage of Shakya) Buddha first started preaching rival Brahmins (Vedic Priest) kept discredit him. The people were finally convinced when he was able to calm and have the animals of the Sacred Deer Grove listen to him following him around.
Pigsy is actually pretty powerfull but next to Wukong and all the shit they fight he looks pretty useless.
You should see Red’s Trope Talk: Mary Sue video.
It’s strange, but I suddenly had a FLASH connection between Piggsy in this story, and a modern equivalent for “A character being used by the writer to drive the plot forward in the dumbest way possible, by making that character act like an incompetent raging jackass.”
Modern equivalent to Piggsy? Holdo from Disney’s SW Trilogy, Episode 8. Because seriously, she’s a BAD damn character, and that movie could have been improved (SLIGHTLY improved😑) with 2 changes regarding her.
1. SHE was a First Order spy. Because then all of her actions ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE.
2. Her trick with the ship was an escape attempt to return to the first order, but the ship’s hyperdrive was damaged in a way that caused the subsequent destruction of the First Order fleet. An accident which could never be repeated, rather than a deliberate action which takes one of the few Hard Rules of the SW setting and craps all over it.
…not sure why I went on a rant about SW in a video about Journey to the West but I blame my meds not kicking in yet.
I wonder if Sun Wukong is actually feeling bored without the group. xD
This episode is the Monkey King being a loot goblin.
Lmao I just looked up that the Golden Cicada was a disciple of the Buddha and was reincarnated as the monk who became known as Tripitaka as punishment by the Buddha himself because he let his mind wander during the Buddha’s preaching.😄😄😄
Yes Pigsy got his own kill this time and didn't steal from Wukong.
My interpretation of Sun wukong is he's the embodiment of freedom. Freedom is not selfish yet if left alone can cause trouble hence the headband
Just so you know, Kitsune is japanese, in China its Huli jing
See, the thing about Pigsy is that he may be dumb, but he's actually really strong and battle savvy. Sun WuKong is the 1st brother. Pigsy the 2nd. And Sandy the 3rd. It's based on strength.
I believe there's a whole playlist of a Chinese tv production of the Journey to the West. There's a lot of reading because of subtitles, but at least you aren't reading a 2000 page epic. lol
I love the use of InuYasha music.
Nuke to a knife fight. That's Fallout when you get sick of the damn raiders taking swings at you. Also Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando in the early game.
It's a Demon thing.
Naruto gold and silver brothers
and the five treasures. Even the effects are the same.
Everything is JTTW.
the fan and the gourd did appear in naruto during the fourth shinobi war against ginkaku and kinkaku two shinobi who were eaten by kurama who then spit them out later gaining some of it's chakra allowing them to safely use them
the gourd just like said suck the person but instead of name it's based on what is it they say on a habit which seals them inside.
the fan if I remember correctly drain chakra of the enemy.
The fan manifests the 5 elements to attack with but was really taxing to use, the rope I think drains chakra
@@Danny-pk6lk oh thank you it has been a really long time since I followed anything Naruto related
I find it that it's not his durable monkey is just immortal times like 5 at this point and he can get like a little damaged but he will never die
twice in the span of tonight ive passed out (Tonight being 4/17/23 for those watching in the future) and woken up mid-way through this video, due to where it is on my playlist
so now time to watch it in full now that im actually....AWAKE
Not everyone can change their forms its just the more powerful beings can and some very strong demons. Also some can only change to certain different shapes but they also need the space.
Why else did you think that the very Fire skilled Uchiha family's symbol was a fan?
So another thing airier during the big battle Inuyashas' theme was playing
Ok for accuracy sake and poor airer keeps correcting himself unnecessarily, son wu kong is the chinese name son goku is his Japanese name and goku in dbz was named after him and yes dbz is literally just a huge rip off of journey to the west.
Sandy and Pigsy can shape shift too.😑
REALLY WATCH RED'S TROPETALKS I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH
Tripitaka _would_ be a Mary Sue, except for all his supposed awesomeness and super ultra powers he's really totally ineffective in general and so generally _un_ capable that in all honesty he's less a Mary Sue and more of a Macguffin Guy: Extremely super ultimately important and special for some arbitrary reason, but so totally useless and unhelpful that not only does the rest of the cast's _entire_ story revolve around defending his pacifist ass from people trying to kidnap and/or kill and eat him, but he causes regular and major conflict between himself and those trying to protect him by forcing _his own morality_ on his defenders even when it makes zero sense and is actively debilitating to his mission to do so.
Just as an example Monkey has difficulties defeating the various enemies not because they are _stronger_ than he is, but because he has to figure out with his impulsively violent little monkey brain how to defeat them without summarily killing them immediately as would normally be the case, as per _Tripitaka's absolutely unbending orders._ He has generally no skill at this or at restraint in general, and so he starts off every single battle in front of Tripitaka by restraining his own power so much he can barely fight back for fear of accidentally offing his opponent, pissing Tripitaka off, and having a trip to Headpain Headband City. Except when Tripitaka would never know, in which case Monkey doesn't bother and deals with matters as amuses him most.
This often means unhappily taking a major beating as he slowly ramps up the power to not miss that magic point of absolute complete defeat but not Tripitaka-enraging death... a fact that Tripitaka never acknowledges or bothers to care about despite supposedly caring about all living things. Especially since Monkey is _not_ a human, he is a monkey, and even Buddha acknowledges that deaths occur with animals and it is considered to be natural and proper, and Monkey's specific capability in this regard is the _very reason_ he was attached to this journey in the first place. Essentially, in a very un-buddhist-like way, Tripitaka is constantly causing poor Monkey far more pain and suffering than he needs to and rightfully _should,_ have to experience by forcing him to act in a way very unnatural to him... and is straight-up ignoring this _constantly_ like a hypocrite.
Pigsy got wukong in trouble because he wanted to sleep with the girl so yes he should be the one to get him since he caused this mess
From last episode two negatives do make a positive
Chinese dragon don't fly they just walk on to cloud
And pigsty can also shapeshift
Run fact son Goku is Japanese for Sun wukuong
Kekekeke, *Psyche Damage!!!*
Honestly. With all his talk about the supposed tropes he found. Airier. Go and watch Trope Talk. On your own time probably since I doubt it would make good content 😊
18:25 ) kinky
Ho the gold and silver duo... lmk made then pretty much a joke
ok hear me out how piss off would your Dm in D&D would be if you make sun wukong as your character in D&D @Airier LOL.
Except thjs lineage isn't secret or even all that useful.
you don't know how to pronounce kitsune